[Speaker 1] (0:36 - 0:46) I appreciate it. Welcome everyone to the Wednesday, July 21st, 2021 Select Board Meeting. As is tradition, if you're with us in the room, please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. [Speaker 20] (0:50 - 1:02) I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [Speaker 1] (1:09 - 2:43) Welcome everyone to those that are in attendance here at the high school, and those that are joining us on Zoom, and those watching on cable access and Facebook Live. Before we get to public comment, we're going to have one recognition. After the recognition, we will go to public comment. Public comment is an opportunity for members of the public to address the board about topics that are not otherwise on our agenda tonight. We ask residents to please limit the time of the remarks, refrain from making political statements, and to the extent there's any questions or comments regarding town personnel, to please follow up with the town administrator or any Select Board member outside of the public meeting. There are two ways in which you can submit public comment. If you're joining us in the room here, you're welcome to come up to the microphone in the front of the room to share your public comment. If you're joining us on Zoom, you're welcome to raise your virtual hand, and we're monitoring that and we'll call on you. And if you're not joining us in person or joining us on Zoom, you are welcome to send me an email at pspellios, first initial P, last name and the word spell, with I-O-S as in Sam at the end, at swampscottma.gov. All right. That being said, I want to turn it over to, I should say, I'm sorry, that Neil Duffy, our fifth colleague tonight, is joining us from somewhere in Saskatchewan or something, based on the look of his housing. I assume he can hear us. So Neil's going to be joining us remotely this evening. So with that, I want to turn it over to David Grishman. Thank you, Peter. [Speaker 15] (2:45 - 3:36) So really tonight, you know, to get started, we want to recognize the Girl Scouts, Girl Scouts Troop 69015, for their efforts in creating a new trail in Swampscott's Harold King Forest. I was fortunate enough to participate in the ribbon-cutting ceremony that was held on June the 5th. It was incredibly hot, but it was an incredibly awesome day to meet with the Girl Scouts, the Conservancy, and to really see the hard work of these young ladies. So I want to introduce them, I think, today. I think Suzanne Hale is going to be able to introduce everybody. Sure. Suzanne, Suzanne, you can unmute yourself and please introduce the ladies. [Speaker 1] (3:36 - 3:46) So can we, Ali, do you mind if we take down the screen for now? Yep. And just that way we can have gallery view, because then we get to see everybody, which is awesome. And then we'll go, there you are. Now we see everyone at once. [Speaker 20] (3:48 - 3:48) Hi. [Speaker 1] (3:49 - 4:19) Hello. How are you? Suzanne, we can't hear you. That may be our problem, not yours. So let's hold on for a second. Give us one second, Suzanne. Suzanne, we can barely do this when we're just live, so this is clearly intended to screw us up. We'll try one more time. Suzanne, try talking again for us. Hold on one second. Neil, will you unmute yourself and try yourself? [Speaker 20] (4:22 - 4:22) Hello. [Speaker 1] (4:23 - 4:26) Check, check, check. We got Neil. Suzanne, why don't you try yourself now? [Speaker 20] (4:28 - 4:30) No, we got you. [Speaker 1] (4:30 - 4:36) Yay. Technology. Yay. We just needed Neil to symbolically free up the microphone. [Speaker 20] (4:37 - 4:39) There we go. [Speaker 11] (4:39 - 5:16) Thank you, Neil. So I am Suzanne. I am one of the troop leaders of Troop 69015. And we have six total scouts in our troop. We are rising youth leaders. We have five of the six with us today. Missing is Eagle Ridge Track. But I would love for all of the scouts, if they can unmute themselves, just to introduce themselves and say their name and maybe what they like best about doing the trail. [Speaker 14] (5:18 - 5:19) Lucy, do you want to start? [Speaker 11] (5:23 - 5:44) I'm Lucy, and I love to be outside the most while I'm doing the trail. Super. Scout, do you want to go next? I'm a scout, and my favorite part was learning about the different species of plants as well. Awesome. Eleanor, what did you like best? [Speaker 13] (5:46 - 5:57) Hi, I'm Eleanor, and I think my favorite part was just being able to... [Speaker 11] (5:57 - 5:57) Super. [Speaker 20] (5:57 - 5:59) And Evelyn, what was your favorite part? [Speaker 13] (6:01 - 6:14) Hi, I'm Evelyn, and my favorite part was all the stories we made up along the way because it was really hot and we had so much fun because we were all doing it together. [Speaker 11] (6:14 - 6:18) Super. And then Juliet, what was your favorite part? [Speaker 10] (6:18 - 6:23) I'm Juliet, and my favorite part was the potty, learning how to use all the different tools. Awesome. [Speaker 11] (6:24 - 6:30) So that's our troop. We had a lot of fun clearing this trail, and hopefully Scouts are enjoying it. [Speaker 15] (6:32 - 6:54) Just speaking for myself, I've been on the trail numerous times. It's right in my backyard. I back up to the Harrow King Forest, so I just want to individually thank Lucy, Scout, Eleanor, Evelyn, and Juliet for making our town and the Harrow King Forest a better place for all of us to enjoy. So thank you so much on behalf of myself and our board. [Speaker 4] (6:55 - 7:25) Yeah, I just also want to say that I've lived in the area, not quite as close as David, but I walk that trail a lot, and the new Ridge Trail has totally changed my life with my dog walks. So it's really great. It's a really interesting trail, and I love that you ladies learned things and had time together in the process having fun. So thank you all, and you, Suzanne, as well, and thanks for everything you do. [Speaker 11] (7:26 - 8:02) Our pleasure. The heart of Girl Scouting is connecting with the community and trying to find ways to solve problems in sustainable ways, and also just contribute in whatever way that we can while raising some really cool, fierce female leaders. So I hope that this is a little bit of a taste of what we can accomplish. You know, from little girls to much larger young women, I think they have a lot of strength and power and vision that is inspiring to me, and hopefully you'll see a lot more of it as we progress along. [Speaker 12] (8:03 - 8:19) Well, I think I'd like to just say, echo everything, it's terrific that you guys were able to give so much to the community and learn so much. I'd also like to add that my backyard is a complete mess, and since you guys are so good at your craft, if you'd like to come by any time, just let me know, and you can have at it. [Speaker 17] (8:19 - 8:21) As long as you have some axes, these girls... [Speaker 12] (8:21 - 8:25) Well, axes, hatchets, chainsaw, the whole thing. Yep, you can go right at it. [Speaker 1] (8:27 - 8:51) Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Suzanne. Thanks to Hazel, as well, who's not here with us tonight for everything, and I think Colleen and some other parents, as well, and troop leaders all stepped up, and it's a really great trail, and I love going to see that old car frame that's in there, and it's like there's so many things that people over the years have put in that car frame, so someday we can piece by piece take it apart. It's pretty cool. [Speaker 20] (8:53 - 8:53) Ta-da. [Speaker 1] (8:54 - 9:15) It's great. Thank you all for staying. We're going to solve our water and sewer rate crisis in a few minutes. If you guys know anything about that, stick around, because we need the help. I'm sorry, so we have some things, so this is why she didn't want to do the gallery view, so Allie has some things that we're going to put up on the screen, and maybe you all can help explain what it is that we're looking at. [Speaker 11] (9:16 - 10:56) Yeah, if you want to unmute yourself, Scouts, you can jump in and maybe explain a little bit of the process of how we started and how we went along the way. I can say as part of the Conservancy, the Conservancy had discussed for a long time making a more accessible trail, because the Boulder Trail is pretty challenging for those who aren't super adventurous, or if you have a dog or small children, the Boulder Trail can be pretty intense, so the Conservancy was hoping to find a way to build an easier trail, and due to COVID, Girl Scouts had to be all outside this year, and so when we first met in September, our troop, we talked about what we wanted to do, and I floated a few ideas, including building this new trail, and our troop was really excited to get involved and create this new trail. There were some fun badges involved in doing some of the steps, but they really jumped on it right away, so the first leg of the trail was the clearing, and you can see us taking some trees out of the way and packing some things down, and then the second part was putting up the blazes and really marking the trail step-by-step so that folks wouldn't lose their way and could navigate around the boulders. [Speaker 1] (11:04 - 11:11) Really cool. Thank you all again for being here tonight and for contributing to our town and making it more awesome. [Speaker 11] (11:12 - 11:32) Thank you, and thank you to the Conservancy for all their support. They really gave us some great guidance. I'm not a trail maintenance person by any means, and both Richard Frankel and Dick Simmons were really instrumental in helping create this trail and map it out and guide the girls, so we're really super thankful to them as well. [Speaker 1] (11:33 - 11:35) Great. Thanks. Thank you. [Speaker 11] (11:35 - 11:37) Thank you. Great job. [Speaker 1] (11:40 - 12:08) Great, we're going to move on now to public comment. Again, for those on Zoom, you're welcome to raise your virtual hand. Those in attendance tonight that would like to speak at public comment are welcome to come up to the microphone, and those that are on neither of those two are welcome to email me at pspellios at swamps.ma.gov, and I will monitor my email. All right, I see Mary Ellen Fletcher. [Speaker 4] (12:16 - 12:19) Hello? Hi, Mary Ellen. Hi, Mary Ellen. [Speaker 13] (12:19 - 12:23) How are you? Good. How's everybody there? [Speaker 1] (12:23 - 12:24) We're great. [Speaker 2] (12:24 - 12:25) Good. Doing great. [Speaker 13] (12:25 - 14:38) Thank you for having resident comment. I wanted to get on tonight and to request that the selectmen, ask the selectmen if they could get involved in removing the industrial container that's sitting in the historic, next to the historic fish house. I'd like to recommend that the container be removed with its business signs and its other accessories to possibly Phillips Park, where it would be safe. They could unload their boards in the morning, load them back up in the evening, or over by Hadley, or any other parking lot in town, and get it out of that area. One of the reasons why I'm asking for this is, one, that is a historic area, it's very congested, and it's the only beach access that we have for people that have mobility issues. So, for example, if somebody is up in the airs and they want to pull their car in and get out and get to the beach, it's a very short little walk and they could get right in there. If somebody's handicapped, it's the only beach that has handicapped accessibility right there. And if someone has small children and they need to wheel their baby carriages out there, that's the only place to do it. The other thing is, there is a parking ban on one of the spaces, which is an unlawful parking ban because there's no, it's not enforceable. So, it discourages people from being able to pull in and park, and I just, I really don't find that acceptable. So, that is my comment. I'm asking that the Board of Selectmen get involved, and I've given you some suggestions on where you can put it, and I think just taking those boards out in the morning and putting them back in. We're talking, I think, I've counted 20 boards out there, and I'm going to surmise that it would be about six minutes' worth of labor in the morning and about six minutes of labor in the afternoon. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (14:39 - 14:50) Thanks, Mary Ellen. I think there was another hand that was up for a second that went down. Christy Hebert. I see your hand raised. You can go ahead. There you go. [Speaker 14] (14:50 - 14:51) Yes. Can you hear me? [Speaker 1] (14:51 - 14:52) I can. [Speaker 14] (14:52 - 17:44) Hi. Thanks for taking this time for public comment. I do appreciate it. I wanted to speak also about that container unit from a different perspective. I wanted to speak in support of Southeast Coast Style and of the Parks and Rec Program with Tom Scott. The first thing is my sons, my brother's family, my family, we've all participated with them at your Swampscot Beach, which is totally a treasure. I live in Marblehead. We don't have a beach like you do, and it's quite something. Last summer, we signed up solely for Swampscot's camps because of the quality and the enjoyment specifically for these sub-camps. I wanted to speak to what I feel is important about this container unit. It provides material storage, which is the boards. It's the supplies. It's the safety gear. It also provides space to address sensitive issues with children because the programs are run with and for children. It also provides temporary shelter if first aid is needed. It becomes the hub for the staff and the participants. I'll say as a witness to the 2019 microburst that hit us all very quickly, the container unit in Marblehead was essential because it was the place for crisis response that as the weather came in, which was absurdly quick and with very little notice and caused damage to the town property as well as homes. Those boards are sizable boards, and even though you can think that they're a little bit heavy, when the wind hits them and they take off or any kind of inclement weather that hits, it's essential that the board box is right there, able to supply them with a place to put those boards immediately so that the staff can get the students off the water, the materials loaded, and to keep things safe in town. I know that there's been clear intention made to have a more permanent investment visually in the container unit, so it just feels like to remove it or to cause any damage to the current back-to-normal season now that COVID is finally giving us a tiny bit of a rest, it seems so short-sighted, both for the residents as well as for business, as well as for the Parks and Rec's department, and that while I certainly can understand Mary Ann's concerns, it feels like there's ways to mitigate those concerns that also can respect the other town's members who are participating and who find it highly valuable. So, I just wanted to say, I know that everyone has opinions, and I just wanted mine to count in contrast, because I don't think that we as citizens and as townspeople and as neighbors are our best when we become nimby about the things that we see, especially if it impedes safety and if it impedes, frankly, being with large groups of children and keeping them safe. So, thank you for listening, and I do appreciate your time. [Speaker 1] (17:45 - 20:26) Thank you, Christy. I don't see any other hands raised at the moment. I don't see any emails here, and there's no one in line here at the high school. So, with that, let me just say this. This topic is not on our agenda tonight, so the board will not be discussing it or taking any action. Under our town charter, the town administrator is responsible for the operation, maintenance, and control of town properties. So, with that, we're going to move on to new and old business. I want to welcome members of the Swampscot Housing Authority who have joined us tonight. Richard Callahan, Terry Cassidy-Driscoll, Kathryn Esther-Verna, and Cynthia Tennant are joining us via Zoom, and I appreciate that. And then Naomi Grieben is here as well. And then Irma Chez, the executive director, is also here tonight. And we thought it would be great to have the Housing Authority come together with the Select Board to engage in the beginning of the conversation, most specifically and probably most importantly and most urgently, over the last several months, there's been conversation about the proposed project at Elm Place, which is located immediately behind properties owned by the Swampscot Housing Authority. There have been a series of community meetings, there have been plan revisions, and what we have yet to do is to hear from the Housing Authority about questions, comments, and concerns about the Elm Place project to make sure that those are heard, that those are elevated and discussed and addressed. We did, the Select Board did, in a letter going back almost six months ago now, include our concerns about potential impacts of the project on all neighbors, not just the Housing Authority properties, but all neighbors in our letter to DHCD relative to the eligibility application for the Elm Place project. So I thought it would be great to welcome the Housing Authority, and I think we have, Allie, I think you have the site plan, which may just help prompt dialogue, and I think we can actually have microphones come to you if you want to stay where you are. I think we're that tech savvy. So Ethan, sorry, you asked me earlier and I didn't. If there's maybe a microphone. Ethan's coming right behind you, Mr. Chairman. Okay, well you can still put a microphone there if we may have some questions and comments from others as well. That'd be great. Thank you. But you're welcome to come down if you want, whatever you're more comfortable with. [Speaker 9] (20:27 - 23:03) I'm here as the chairman. This has been going on for a long time, and we've had no input from here, and it's been very upsetting. We're a five-member board, and three people are elected. Two are appointed. No one has been appointed or asked to represent the Housing Authority in any manner or any sense at all. Someone has represented in several meetings that they represent the Housing Authority, and at no time, now or in the past, has she been appointed to represent the Housing Authority. We're very concerned regarding the issues that have come up surrounding this, regarding 40B property and minimum profit housing. We're controlled by the state, by the Commonwealth. We're a non-profit agency. We're controlled. The finances, what we charge, is all controlled by the state. We did meet unofficially with Wynn, and they gave us a presentation. We asked that they give us a week to get back to you with what our questions are. We got together and discussed this with Wynn. Our questions concern the security of our tenants with people passing in and out of that area. I don't know where the bike trail and the train station thing came from, but that would have to be on our property. Who's going to cover anything if somebody gets hurt? Who's going to cover the insurance? Who's responsible for this, the liability? We had considered putting in solar panels, and clearly with a five-story building over a two-story building, that's not going to happen. We're overburdening the area regarding parking and open space. I just want to say that we don't want to stop anybody from profiting. We don't want to stop people from coming in here to live. Our sole goal, our sole directive, is to ensure that the people in Dougherty Circle and our other locations are safe. We can't even move a tenant out except for extraordinary circumstances. So the plans of building this, taking that down, can't happen. The state's just not going to let it happen. I feel that something has been misled here, or someone's been misled, in the sense that over the 40D stuff. We don't care. We're a non-profit. We're not going to make more money. We're not going to make less money. We're only here to ensure the safety and well-being of our clients. I thank you. [Speaker 1] (23:03 - 23:12) You're welcome. I want to go back, if you don't mind. You made references that someone was representing the Housing Authority. I'm just curious as to who that was that you don't believe was supposed to be representing the Housing Authority. [Speaker 9] (23:12 - 23:13) That would be Ms. Grieben. [Speaker 1] (23:14 - 23:18) I'm sorry, so you're referring to a member of the Housing Authority not being able to speak as a member of the Housing Authority? [Speaker 9] (23:19 - 23:28) Not to represent the Housing Authority. She can speak in any meeting she wants to. That's fine. But to go in and say, on behalf of the Housing Authority, this, this, and this, it's inappropriate. [Speaker 1] (23:29 - 23:53) Okay. Secondly, you mentioned that you weren't reached out to. Through staff, I was able to get a list from WIN of every time that they reached out to the Housing Authority, and I have written down six different occasions where they've reached out, they've met with individuals, and some not responding to them, too. So, I'm just concerned. So, I think let's use tonight to make sure there clearly is some way that they are seeking to have communication. [Speaker 9] (23:53 - 23:57) Oh, I agree. I agree with WIN, except the Housing Authority... [Speaker 1] (23:57 - 23:59) I'm sorry, was I interrupting you? I'm sorry. Go ahead, please. [Speaker 9] (24:00 - 24:00) Go ahead. [Speaker 1] (24:01 - 24:04) No, please. You want to go ahead and respond to that. Go ahead. [Speaker 9] (24:04 - 24:31) Yeah, we met with WIN. We don't have a problem with a lot of what they're doing. We're concerned about the things I listed. I was referring to the plans the town had made regarding the bike trail and access to the train station. Now, that's our property. No one's addressed this to us. And these meetings have been going on and on and on with the different groups, affordable housing groups, and again, that has nothing to do with us. [Speaker 1] (24:31 - 24:37) So, Mr. Connelly, I'm glad you're here. The town hasn't proposed any plans for anything. [Speaker 9] (24:37 - 24:38) Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. [Speaker 1] (24:38 - 25:25) I apologize. It's okay. I'm just... It seems you and I agree on one thing, that there's some confusion. So, I want to... This is great that you're here so that we can help clarify some confusion. The town has not proposed a single plan relative to the Elm Place project or property adjacent to the Housing Authority property. The plans, which have been shown by the developer, show certain improvements. What the plans don't show, and I want to make sure you're aware of it, because if you're not aware of it, I want to understand this. Is the Housing Authority clear on the fact that what Elm Place is proposing does not displace, does not require the relocation, or does not require the removal of any single tenant of a Housing Authority property? Is that controversial, or do you agree with me on that? [Speaker 9] (25:25 - 25:32) No, I agree completely. But some of the initial proposals were maybe we'd take down one building and move people over here. This is what we came in with. [Speaker 20] (25:32 - 25:32) Yeah. [Speaker 9] (25:33 - 25:46) And we also stated that the impetus for the train path and the rail path was from the town. They had nothing to do with that. It was something that was added. So when was the source of that information? [Speaker 1] (25:46 - 27:51) I appreciate it. Given that the Housing Authority is clear about the fact that the Elm Place project did nothing to even raise the prospect of tenants at the Housing Authority needing to be relocated, or that tenants at the Housing Authority would be displaced by this project, I've got to ask you a question, because over the last week I've gotten more emails or calls from tenants of the Housing Authority than I have in my prior seven years here. And the questions I think related to an email, a letter that came out from the Housing Authority which said, to our residents of Doherty Circle and Dunklin Terrace, attached, please find a Wynn Companies invitation to an in-person meeting on July 13th, 2021. Please note the Swampscott Housing Authority is not in any position to relocate our tenants. Our goal is to maintain the existing units while keeping everyone housed. Thank you for your cooperation. Now, I guess I feel like we're missing something. The tenants were missing something, because they called to say, why are you kicking us out of our units? And I agree that if I got this letter, I would actually think the same thing. And so I guess tonight's a great opportunity. We have a great forum here because we're on TV and we're on Facebook Live, and I know your meetings are not televised and not like this. And so this is a great opportunity, I think, that if there is clarity on the part of the Housing Authority that no tenant is being threatened with relocation or losing their unit, this seems like a really good forum to say that, because this letter caused a lot of consternation, and I think erroneously so. And I'm really at a loss to understand why a letter like this would go out to intimate to tenants that they are going to lose their housing. These units represent 63% of the total affordable housing stock in Swampscott. And so while it is Housing Authority property, they are our residents. And I've got to be honest, that really upsets me because this letter clearly intimates that something about the Elm Place project means that they're going to be relocated or need to be relocated. And you've just agreed that's furthest from the truth. And so I would welcome that clarity, and I think the residents deserve that clarity. [Speaker 9] (27:52 - 28:20) There's no question that your statement is true. There is no tenant going to be moved or have any impact, I'm sorry, they will have an impact from the new construction. They will not lose their residence. They will not be pushed out. They will not be put out. But there were several residents who were calling in concern about the fact that they're hearing this, and it's just a lot of talk between the residents, and this is what a bunch of them had said. It was just simply an attempt to calm them down. [Speaker 15] (28:23 - 28:32) I was at the meeting on the 13th of July. This letter did the exact opposite. It riled them up. It did, Mr. Chair. [Speaker 9] (28:33 - 28:35) That was not the intent. [Speaker 1] (28:38 - 28:43) Tara, do you mind actually just taking, I'm sorry, that microphone. You can stay seated by all means, but the microphone just needs to pick you up. [Speaker 16] (28:43 - 28:48) I just want to be clear that that letter was not viewed by the complete committee before it went out. [Speaker 10] (28:50 - 32:31) Thank you. And I would like to say something. That was really a reassurance. I'm the one that gets the calls from all the residents, and the residents are my concern. And for that same reason, we sent out the letter, because they were very concerned about the different things that they were hearing from different people. See, the rumors just fly like fire. Back in August of 2020, there was a plan set by Wind Development showing Dirty Circle not in their exhibits. How did the residents that didn't hear about it? I couldn't tell you. But rumors have been coming around. If we look at the exhibits back in 2020, next to Powder Dice Construction, 233 Borough Street, there's our Borough Street property, and next to it, they're no longer there. There's commercial property on the bottom, and our property's not there to be seen. So rumors started going around for a long time. My residents came to me because, as you all know, they're senior citizens. They've been residents. They've gone to the schools here. And they were very concerned. Where am I going to go? So I just wanted to make sure and reassure them that the housing authority's in no position at all to dispose of their properties or to relocate anybody, because they were hearing, if they're going to redevelop our property, most likely we're going to have to move out. Where are we going to go? And unfortunately, the Swansca Housing Authority only has Duncan Terrace, which is my other 667 elderly site, and I don't have more units to put them in there while there's some development going on at Doherty Circle. So you do have to understand, Mr. Chair, Mr. Select Board Chair, that this is the reason why the letter went out. And to my residents, if you're hearing me, everyone here, the intention was to make sure, and a reassurance to my residents, that they are there to stay, and I am there to serve them, and I'm there to make sure that they have a place that they can call home. That's why I'm there every day, making sure that I answer the questions. And, Mr. Spillius, DHED, it's a surprise that since the time I've been there, there has not been one single complaint call to DHED. So there's been difference being made. And I hope you all understand that I've only been there a year and a half. And from the moment I've been there, which started with COVID, I've been able to improve a lot of things. And I'm there because I care for the residents. I have a heart for public housing. And again, public housing is different than affordable housing. With my public housing, during COVID, I had residents paying $5 for rent for months. But we were still able to pay our bills. With affordable housing, they still have to pay a rent. There's still an income gap that they have to make. And guess what? Utilities are included with our property. So, again, the intention was to make sure, and it was a reassurance to all of my residents, that they are there to stay. And we're going to continue to provide housing for them, and those that are still waiting on a wait list, which I have over 7,000 people waiting for public housing. Veterans, mothers on shelters, waiting to be housed. And we will be there to answer their questions and to house them as soon as I have a vacant unit. Because that's my job, and I was hired to do that. Okay? Thank you so much. [Speaker 12] (32:31 - 32:43) So I'd just like to add, quick, so it's clear the intention of the letter may have been good, but the way it was worded certainly caused, I think, more harm than good, and perhaps... [Speaker 10] (32:43 - 32:44) I do apologize for that. [Speaker 12] (32:44 - 32:51) No need to apologize. But I think the reason that you had a board is perhaps it was reviewed by all. There's certain checks and balances, and you get everyone's input, and you may have... [Speaker 10] (32:51 - 32:56) Well, usually communications between my residents and I not necessarily have to bring it to the board every second. [Speaker 12] (32:56 - 32:56) No, understand. [Speaker 10] (32:57 - 33:03) I was hired to operate the day-to-day operations of the Housing Authority, and that's exactly what I'm doing. [Speaker 12] (33:03 - 33:19) And I think this isn't us against them. We've all got one singular goal, which is to take care of our seniors. And clearly, whether it's the wind project or with this board, there's just a general lack of communication between us, and I think that we need to address that. [Speaker 1] (33:19 - 33:19) Right. [Speaker 10] (33:19 - 33:23) We're not invited to meetings before, and yet this is the lack of communication. Correct. [Speaker 1] (33:24 - 33:29) But I'm going to just chime in. So I appreciate... I'm glad we invited you tonight. [Speaker 10] (33:29 - 33:30) Yes, and I'm glad I'm here. [Speaker 1] (33:30 - 33:32) And I am grateful. [Speaker 10] (33:32 - 33:32) Thank you. [Speaker 1] (33:32 - 35:18) But I need... I just want to make sure the Housing Authority understands it. It's your obligation to advocate for, and it's your obligation to care. And by the way, Ms. Jess, I've heard very good things about what you've done in the last year and a half, so I want to recognize that, and I do appreciate it, and that it's a very hard job, and you came in at COVID, and I think you came in to a Housing Authority that needed you and needed your skills, and so it's very much appreciated. But as the Housing Authority generally, not to you, Ms. Jess, but to the Housing Authority generally, if the job is to advocate for, the job is to look out for, and sitting and waiting to be invited to things that you believe that you need to be participants in is not... You have to insert yourself and ask... Again, I'm going to go back. I'm not going to get into why meetings didn't happen and why correspondence didn't happen, but between town staff and WN, there were numerous occasions, opportunities to meet that didn't happen for various reasons. It doesn't matter why, but ultimately, it's not just because... You're right, you have a vulnerable population, and one that's very dependent upon the Housing Authority, and that's understood, so as a result, it's the same for us. There are residents, too. Your tenants are residents, so we all collectively have an obligation to not be content with saying, well, I wasn't asked. Instead, we got to be the ones pounding on the doors and insisting upon it, and so I hear you, and we can help with that, certainly. But again, I want to just say, I do appreciate what you've done, and in particular, Naomi has shared a lot of great words about things that you've undertaken and things that you've been able to bring to the Housing Authority, so thank you for that. [Speaker 10] (35:18 - 35:19) Thank you. [Speaker 2] (35:20 - 37:57) Sure, yeah, I'm Sean Fitzgerald, I'm Swanship's Town Administrator. You know, it's important for us to really just understand that we're a team. We're in this together. We do share responsibilities to help support the citizens that live in the Housing Authority. I really can't tell you how many times I've received phone calls from residents that live in the Housing Authority that have asked us to cut the lawn or support some of the responsibilities associated with maintaining the facility over the last few years, and things are definitely better. I haven't received those calls over the last year and a half, and Irma, I think you're responsible for that, but I also think that it's just not good enough to say that the only thing we are here to do is to make sure that those residents are safe. We have to make sure that those residents feel like this community cares about those neighborhoods and cares about seeing those neighborhoods really invested in and advocated for. We believe those neighborhoods should be better, and we want to see the Housing Authority and the Town collaborate more on strategies that can help us build a brighter community for all of our residents. I remember two years ago when we were honored as being an age-friendly community, one of the residents of the Housing Authority stood up and said, hey, help us. Help us get better homes, get better apartments for the Housing Authority. They're old, they're tired, and dated. Many of them aren't ADA accessible, and those comments continue to haunt me and remind me that we've got to do a little bit better, but I don't think we go anywhere unless we're working as a team. I'm inspired by the passion and the heart and the care that all of the board members and you especially, Irma, bring to public service. Let's continue to work together on some of these challenges. We can do a lot together, and frankly, I think this is the beginning of hopefully a solid relationship. I would welcome you to join us at department head meetings and really meet some of your colleagues here in public service, whether it's our police chief, fire chief, department of public works director, assistant town administrator, and really the team of local officials that are really serving the citizens of Swampskate. [Speaker 10] (37:57 - 38:25) I've had the opportunity to meet Chief Archer. He's been very helpful and welcoming. As you know, being new in the town and taking over a position that was held by a director for 30 years, he was very helpful. DPW, I appreciate it as well. The chief of the police department has been very helpful. The goal is to continue to build relationships. Certainly, I agree with that. [Speaker 4] (38:27 - 39:23) In the spirit of, and I mean this in good faith, but in the spirit of taking the opportunity to clarify things that might be confused. It had been brought to my attention, and I want to make sure that I understand it, because again, I agree that we can all benefit from increased communication. I just want to make sure that I'm clear. It's my understanding that at the last, and maybe Mr. Chair, this was a question for you, I'm not sure, that the housing authority voted not to submit an application for a technical assistance grant to start a process of upgrading the properties in town and improving the conditions of the units. Just to Mr. Fitzgerald's point, it does seem that that's something that the units could use, and I think tenants, from what I've heard over the years, would agree. So I guess I'm just wondering why the housing authority voted as they did. [Speaker 9] (39:23 - 40:32) Your comments are absolutely correct. It was turned down. We had approximately three weeks to make a decision, and speaking with people within the Commonwealth said that they didn't think we could get partial funding to get to the study portion of it, but at that point, we did not have the ability to provide all the documentation they wanted, and it was just an impossible thing to do. Our director is a part-time person, and she does an incredible job, and as chairman, I appreciate the comments you made about her. She earned every one of them. So it's expected to come up every year or so, and we would be greatly happy to look into that. At the time, it was impossible. We were getting the yearly reports done, and Irma had to do all of that on her own, and then to get these documents ready to submit to the Commonwealth was just an impossible thing to do. Just impossible. It would have been a lot of time and effort, but we've kind of been informed by some of the powers that be that it would have been a waste of time anyway. [Speaker 4] (40:32 - 40:37) Is this an annual? Is this like a rolling application? It sounds like there are deadlines once a year. Every time. [Speaker 9] (40:38 - 40:42) What are the powers that be? That's not the question. I'm sorry. [Speaker 1] (40:43 - 40:45) So can I ask that question? What are the powers that be? [Speaker 9] (40:47 - 40:54) From the State House, or from Salt and Stall Building, I am not liberty to provide those names at this time. [Speaker 1] (40:54 - 44:39) So, okay. Do you mind if I just ask a follow-up on this? Naomi, hold on a second, because I want to hear what you have to say, and you don't have a microphone in front of you. My understanding, and I'm actually looking at an email from our Economic and Community Development Director who offered to and actually completed 90% of the application, and there was two bits of information that were waiting to be received. Information on just backgrounds of people, bios, was the primary one. Town staff, even though it's not, town property, we have clear delineation lines. Town staff volunteered to use their time to complete the application and file it. I don't know who are these nameless authorities in the Salt and Stall Building, but I think we can all agree that even though they said it was unlikely, it's certain if you don't file the application that you will not get anything. It's certain. That we know. No one can dispute that. So it is confusing to us to understand why with town staff offering to help complete the application, actually complete the application, and yes, I understand people are busy. So fine. Great. So it's now next year we're looking at. So I guess, let me ask a bigger question. I think you've been on the Housing Authority for quite a while, Mr. Chairman. So can you just share with us over the last decade or two decades any grant applications, any efforts, any major capital improvements to seek to upgrade to address the fact that we have seniors and disabled seniors and non-seniors living in non-type 2 units, non-ADA compatible units. It's not that we don't have many ADA compatible units. We actually have none in the Housing Authority. You have first floor units, but that doesn't make them ADA accessible. Outlets aren't where they're supposed to be. Doorknobs are not where they're supposed to be. Sinks are not where they're supposed to be. Toilets don't have the clearance they're supposed to be. Door clearances don't exist the way that they need to. And so I'm grateful for the fact that there's 128 units in the Housing Authority, which is, again, 60% of the total housing affordable and public housing in Swampscott. But if you can shed light on, I appreciate there's next year, but what have we done in the last three decades to actually begin to address the fact that I've toured some of these properties. We do the best we can in a resource-constrained environment, and I appreciate that. I really do. It's really tough. So therefore, when there's opportunities to find technical assistance grants, it doesn't mean anything except that we are going to find someone to help supplement the time and efforts of this board to identify means and methods and resources to effectuate change. And so when I hear, well, there's next year, it doesn't sit well with me because we haven't done anything unless you tell me otherwise, Mr. Chairman, that we've attempted to try and revitalize in a meaningful way, but these units have not. Besides fixing leaks and cracks, and I understand that recently you were able to put some outlets in bathrooms, bathrooms that didn't have outlets in them, and move some outlets from behind stoves so that people actually had outlets in kitchens. That's not something to be proud of. That's a bare-bones just, everybody should have that, right? And so I just, I struggle to understand that if not now, when are we going to start the multi-year, really complicated process of investing to figure out the answer? This was a technical assistance grant. This wasn't the answer. This was to help you all supplement your efforts here, and with all due respect to a nameless person in Saltonstall Building, you know, it's, we are certainly not going to get anywhere if what we say is, well, we're too busy. It just doesn't, and I just, I'm sorry that I'm frustrated about it. I'm sure you're frustrated by the condition as well, but saying we'll do it next year just seems empty. [Speaker 9] (44:40 - 45:08) This was a direct question regarding when it may come about again. And I said, I was told, I was told by the Community Development Director that there could be another one this year, but they keep rolling up, and you don't ever know when they're coming up. And that's the answer to that. As to the condition of the property, you're right. It's enough. It's tough. It's difficult. We're controlled by the state. But as the improvements have been made, I want to ask Irma to explain what the, some of the appropriations, yeah. [Speaker 20] (45:09 - 45:10) Please. I'm sorry. [Speaker 10] (45:12 - 47:19) Sure. So on a yearly basis, we have the Head of Construction, Asset Manager, they do yearly inspections of the properties, we do capital improvements, we get fundings, and so, yes, the properties are not dilapidated, as they've been called many times by different people, by WIN, people from the Select Board, and others. The properties are not falling. Certainly they're not upgraded. I would agree that with you. But we do get funding from the state. And believe me, if the property was dilapidated, the state will find the monies, wherever they need to find it. But they're not dilapidated. Regarding landscaping, yes, I had to hire a landscaper. There was ways that I needed to cut my budgets, and I was able to do that. So now I have a landscaping company coming biweekly, taking care of the landscaping. So there's certain things that I just feel that I need to be given the opportunity to show what we're doing, and how we're spending our funding. What I don't want to really talk about is the fact that if we're talking about moving everything around, that's talking moving the design of the property, moving the design of the unit itself inside, I mean, there are grants out there that certainly we could apply for, but I feel that this moment was there was a lot that we needed to get together. So maybe, my suggestion is, maybe start thinking about a feasibility study, a capital needs study, a capital, I'm sorry, a study, maybe just to see how many more units we can add, or what can be done in our property, because we've never done that at the Housing Authority. Maybe that's a start. That's my suggestion. And we've talked about it. We don't have this type of study. And maybe that's something we should look into. I know certainly we don't have a lot on our operating budget at this point, but that's something that certainly we can try to find funding and start there. Because we haven't started there yet. [Speaker 1] (47:19 - 49:05) I hear you. Ms. Chez, that technical assistance grant is exactly what you're describing, and what it does, it doesn't try and take it away from your operating budget, it doesn't try and take it away from your time. It supplements it all. It is actually, and that other people in Salt and Stall could have provided information to let you know if you took the time to make the calls to say whether or not we should do it, they also would have told you that this technical assistance grant is the pathway to the state funding the ultimate project. It is quite literally the pathway. That is what this grant is. And it's a technical assistance to address exactly the concern that you've articulated about time and resources on your side. And while I appreciate, again, the focus and what you do on a day-to-day basis, nothing that we're doing now, we, not just you, we is going to take those 128 units and make them ADA accessible. Half of which roughly are on the second floor with people that are walking upstairs. Each year is harder for them. We want to keep them in place, right, because there aren't other options. Each year is harder and more difficult for them, and they are the most vulnerable, not the least vulnerable here. And so even if they're in okay condition, right, that still doesn't address that. The only way we're going to address that is going to be through a program that supplements the hard work that you do, and that was what this technical assistance grant was. And the town, again, offered staff to complete it for you, and the town will offer it again because it's that important, and we will offer it again, and we will offer it again until it happens, because this has to happen. And you are doing a great job with a resource-constrained environment that you live within. You really are. But that's not enough, and that was the point of this technical assistance grant. [Speaker 10] (49:05 - 49:27) But there will be more grants coming, different types of grants, but we'll make sure to get the information on time, make sure we proceed as the board decides, and obviously we're here for our residents, your residents. And so again, there'll be more funding. [Speaker 12] (49:28 - 49:29) Go ahead, Polly. [Speaker 4] (49:29 - 49:31) Sorry, Polly, go ahead. [Speaker 10] (49:31 - 49:31) Okay. [Speaker 4] (49:35 - 50:25) Sorry. Just to the point, I don't know if this is a fair request, but, I mean, certainly I think it would be helpful for this board to know, and it seems for the housing authority, if it's unclear, but if it isn't clear, then it's easier. If it isn't unclear to you, then it's easier for you. If we could just have a list, if somebody could just do the research or put together a list of what funding is available to the housing authority, and when those things come up. I don't know if that's a fair request, but I think even just having a complete, it doesn't seem like we're entirely clear on deadlines and what's out there for funding and what might be needed and how heavy uplifting needs to happen for that. So, I think in order to be better prepared, it might be a helpful exercise, but I don't know. [Speaker 9] (50:25 - 51:26) Just to let you know, just to what your question is, programs come up at different times, and I remember I was able to get all of, for Duncan Terrace, heating and air conditioning, single units, taken out the old ACs, don't have to worry about any of them, getting them in or out, everyone's getting a new unit. Three of the places that probably need new boilers, we get, Irma's got those coming in. She's got several grants that are out there that just, you know, she finds them, gets them, there's a resident service coordinator a resident service coordinator that's fully funded, who's going to come in and work with the tenants and see what else they need, where they need to go, what we can do to help them. Irma and the board is just not sitting on its hands. I appreciate your frustration. It's frustrating for us also, but dealing with the Commonwealth is like, hey, wild Hawaii. [Speaker 1] (51:26 - 52:53) Mr. Chairman, so then talk to me, so you're not sitting on your hands, tell me what the board is doing, not what Irma's doing, what's the board then doing? Tell me what initiatives you guys have pursued, and I'm saying that so that we can understand, if they weren't successful, how could we have helped those efforts? Because we're not aware of a single effort, a single, put aside what the executive director does, the board. And I'm going to say this respectfully, I mean, I think you guys all do it. You're on the board because you want to help effectuate positive change, right, and bring something to it, and Tara, I really appreciate you stepping up when the governor needed an appointee, and Naomi, you stepped down from being on a very intensive board to continue doing something, and Cynthia, I think it's great that you as a tenant have stepped forward and do it, and everybody, but frankly, I'm assuming that if you guys are sitting on a board and nothing's getting done, that can't be very rewarding, so how can we help it be rewarding and help you guys actually do something, because Irma is busy, and just like our town administrator's busy and he runs the town, we end up working on projects and advocating for things and finding grant money, and again, I appreciate that it's tough working with the state, but if you don't ask them for anything, I guarantee you the answer's no, but that's what we do here, and so how can we help bring that to you all to activate you, to empower you, not to do what you guys, it's your direction, you guys get to direct it, and how can we support that, because that's an important thing. [Speaker 9] (52:54 - 53:26) You want to know how? You just said it. Talking together and us being able to go to you and seek assistance, seek some guidance, and I believe that's the biggest problem we're dealing with as a board, that we only have to go to the commonwealth, we can't do any major projects without getting permission or having funded, capital gain, capital improvement projects are brutal to go through, but if we can go through you and get your assistance, and assistance from town hall, I think it'll make a huge difference. [Speaker 1] (53:28 - 53:29) Don, sorry, you wanted to say something? [Speaker 12] (53:29 - 54:39) Well, no, I'm glad to hear that, because I said I've got a particular sensitivity, I've got a 92-year-old mother not in Swanscot housing, but in housing, and it's, you know, their particular housing authority's been the benefit of a lot of money, it's an urban setting, and so I've got the peace of mind knowing that she's really good state-of-the-art. I think we all share a common goal, the fact that you don't have ADA units is unacceptable, and while it sounds like you've been doing as best you can putting a band-aid, getting some meaningful band-aids, unless there isn't a proactive program, my frustration sitting here, and I think you've just addressed it, and I think we've got a path forward, is we have got tremendous resources that have been able to accomplish some terrific things over the past five, seven, eight years, including federal grants, state grants, getting things done at the state level when people before said no, couldn't be done, this person said no, so you know, the town staff, the select board, the resources we have are available and are willing to do anything that you need to help support what you can do because you are limited in your resources, but we need to know. It's hard for us to say, we think this, and try to force ourselves into your situation, you come to us, we'll give you anything you need, and we can get things done. [Speaker 1] (54:40 - 55:05) Much appreciated. So, if you don't mind, I would like, Naomi, you were going to say something, I actually would like to make sure that we're giving all housing authority board members an opportunity to share their thoughts and comments, and Cynthia and Catherine, I think I see you, I apologize, Catherine, it's hard on the screen, but I think Catherine, I saw Catherine as Verona here previously, so likewise, I welcome any of you to, Naomi, do you have anything you want to say, or do you want to? [Speaker 19] (55:05 - 55:58) Just in general, I think, you know, we really have our work cut out for us in needing to work together with each other to develop really a very very clear vision ASAP about what we would like to move forward together as a housing authority, and I think we really need to engage in that conversation immediately, and then I think we need to be very very transparent with residents in person, I think we ought to be communicating with our residents in person so they see the board, and we should make our meetings very accessible to them so that they can attend, and I think that that's going to take more time than we've historically put into our efforts, and I think that we need to take the initiative more. [Speaker 1] (55:59 - 57:28) So on that line, there is a resource we can offer to you, and it's something that is actually on my list to ask of you, which is Cynthia's actually helped educate us a little bit about how to make sure the tenants feel comfortable coming to meetings and being involved with meetings and being spaced as these are due, so I guess I would ask of the housing authority to please change the venue of your meetings, please take us up on an offer of being here and being televised, it's ADA accessible, it's air conditioned, it's televised, it is the way to communicate to residents effectively, we have a selectmen's meeting room in town hall that we don't use because it's not user friendly, people don't like to come to it, it's not air conditioned, and it prevented people from taking part, and so I guess I would ask you if going forward you would hold your meetings in a space like this, and this space we will make it available, we can make the arrangements, we can arrange for the television to tape it or to show it so residents have the ability to experience it and interact more, and so I throw that out as an idea to you, I think it's a really powerful one, I think no one's meeting in secret, but when we don't make ourselves readily available it limits interaction and hearing experiences and sharing that knowledge that I think this letter was trying to help address, maybe not doing a good job addressing it by any means, but if there was more open communication and forums where people had a chance to listen and chime in, that may help, so I hope that you would consider that, and again, we'll make that available to you just like we do for other town boards and committees. [Speaker 16] (57:31 - 59:08) I just wanted to say one question, but two things, was that in fairness to the process and in regard to, although I wasn't privy to that letter before it went out, that in one of the meetings, public meetings that Wynn did have, it wasn't this most recent one, I think it was the one before that, they did make a comment that they would be interested in developing Doherty Circle and that they had spoke, had some minor conversation with the town, so I think that's part of what caused a little bit of a stir and chaos, so I just want to in fairness to the process put that out there. That may have caused a little bit of confusion among some of the residents. And the other question I had really was, I know I asked the question in, I typed a question in at one of the meetings to the Wynn development in regard to, is there going to be a fire gate there to access the back of that property, but I have never had that question answered. That was in the public forum. Mainly because there is parking that goes on there right now, and I know that is a concern, that if that area there where those streets connect, whether officially or unofficially, and I'm not sure what that answer is if we ever even got that answer, is that going to happen, because that's just going to cause a little bit more chaos, and I think that's part of their concern also. Parking is very limited there, there isn't enough in supply, and that will cause us to lose a few more spaces, so I just have not heard, we have not heard as far as I know as a board an answer on that question, which I think is a little bit important. [Speaker 1] (59:08 - 1:00:08) So I can't give you the answer because I don't know the answer, but I want to use the question as an opportunity to let you know that obviously public forums are really important, it gives you a chance to hear an exchange, but as a duly elected board in this town, I will tell you, you have, every resident can call up our community and economic development director and our planner and our land use coordinator and ask questions, but certainly as a member of a board, in this case an abutting property owner, I want to empower you and make you feel very welcome, Irma, you, Mr. Chairman, any board member, Cynthia, Catherine, for you to reach out to town staff, to the town administrator, to ask questions directly and not feel like the public forum is the only place for you to get information, sometimes those meetings get so chaotic that not every question gets answered, so it sounds like a really good question that needs a really good answer, so I just want to use it as an example of please feel free to reach out to staff, and I think you're going to find that helpful. [Speaker 16] (1:00:09 - 1:00:12) I will reach out on that question, but who would be the appropriate person for that? [Speaker 1] (1:00:12 - 1:00:40) Why don't you go to Marzie Golaska, and if Marzie doesn't know it, Marzie certainly can reach out. Marzie, they're not the town plans, right, so what Marzie can do, though, is get, as she's done in the past for this board, get answers to questions from Wynn or other projects throughout town, right, when something's happening, she's been very helpful so that we're not calling opponents, so that's my suggestion on that. [Speaker 16] (1:00:40 - 1:00:42) Okay, sounds good, thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:00:42 - 1:00:55) Cynthia, did you, hi, how are you? Did you want to chime in? Actually, it looks like you have to click something to join audio. Oh, that's us, never mind Cynthia, that's on our computer screen. My God, how embarrassing is that? [Speaker 7] (1:01:06 - 1:01:07) Hello. Hello. [Speaker 1] (1:01:08 - 1:01:08) Hi, Cynthia. [Speaker 7] (1:01:09 - 1:09:15) Hi, sorry about that. Good evening. Thank you very much for this opportunity. I am so encouraged by this meeting tonight and by everything that I have heard from both our chairman and from the select board. I've been praying for a lot of years that this would happen and I understand the frustration on the part of the select men and the part of the tenants and as a tenants representative, I just want to let you know a couple of things. First of all, as far as that letter is concerned, that was a private letter that went from the director to the residents. The director is not required to submit that letter for approval to the board and the reason the letter was written was already explained to you, but I just want to let you know, just as you said, Peter, that you had gotten a few phone calls from people that were maybe a bit upset about the letter, I got at least four phone calls, people almost in tears telling me how comforted they were by that letter. I had one woman who had told me she had gone on anti-anxiety medication. She was this upset and this letter calmed her down. A few people that might have called you, maybe were people that are not involved in the kind of gossip, I don't want to say gossip, but stuff that goes on in a very small, enclosed community. Those are people that maybe go out to work, maybe those are people who don't spend a lot of time sitting around because they're younger, they're not as confined. The people that were sitting there upset about it were so happy to receive that letter. I can't tell you. And I also want to let you know that a lot of times part of the reason that things cannot get answered in a public forum is because public housing is a very private thing to the tenants, to the residents. It's almost as if you don't want any of your private medical information put out in a public forum. There are a lot of people and I will be very honest with you, that are embarrassed by the fact that they have to live in public housing. That's why they don't go to meetings, that's why they're not very vocal, that's why you don't hear about them too often. Listen, 60 years ago the town took on the fact of starting the Housing Authority and they did a great job. But over the course of 60 years, for whatever reasons, sometimes upkeep didn't get done on a regular schedule the way it was supposed to. For whatever reason, monetary reasons, staff reasons, weather, who knows. But things didn't get done. And over 60 years, little by little, the buildings have deteriorated and we all know that. Everybody agrees about that. We all want to do something about it. Everybody agrees about that. What we need to do, just as you said, is have better communication. And what it appears to me to be happening right now, is that we're starting to do that. And the frustration of the fact that it took us 60 years to get into the woods, the frustration stems from the fact that in the two years that Irma and this board has been operating, we haven't come all the way out of the woods yet. But we're on the way. Things are happening. And there are going to be other grants. There are going to be other developers. Whether it's wind or not, it doesn't make any difference. It's going to take place. Swanscot is going to finally move into the 21st century as far as their low-income and moderate-income housing is concerned. And everybody is going to be happy. Even in the section over in Cherry Street where the families live. There are kids that live there that go to Swanscot schools that don't want to give their address because they're embarrassed to be living there. None of us want our kids to feel like that. None of us want our elderly people to be going up and down their stairs on their bones because they can't carry the bags themselves and they can't walk the stairs. And I think we're all working towards the same end. We all have the same goal. We're all heading in the same direction. I commend the chair of this Housing Authority Board for being a steady, amazing, amazing director who is trying to recoup 60 years worth of inaction on the part of not just the people that work for the Housing Authority, this state, but the town too. Come on. Let's be real honest. If you guys have been really as concerned about this as you appear to be right this moment, where were you 20 years ago? Where were you 10 years ago? Where were you 5 years ago? The Housing Affordable Trust has gotten things going. Things are starting to happen. There are some boards in the town that are really leading us in a direction. But we can't be little prams and horses. Everybody going in their own way. We can't have five people speaking for us when we have to come across as one voice. Let's do what you suggested, Peter. Let's do what you suggested, Richard. Why don't Peter and Richard sit down together and talk? Why don't the people on the Select Board and the town manager sit down and talk? We can do that. But you guys have to realize our director of the Housing Authority is a 32-hour a week employee. She works 55 hours a week and doesn't get paid for it. We have two maintenance men for 122 units. One of them has been out for almost a year. So the other person who has been on call 24 seconds since January has been trying to do this all himself. You ask why this didn't get passed? I'll tell you why it didn't get passed. Because it was premature. There were 16 days to do it. Too many things were going on. The roofs were falling in at Cherry Street. We had bed bugs. We had all kinds of stuff going on. We had people, elderly people, getting sick and needing help in their units. All this stuff goes on. There's a 32-hour a week employee and one maintenance man. So if you are also very, very concerned, let's sit down together individually and talk and not talk behind each other's back, not say one thing in one planning meeting and something else in another planning meeting and get it on paper and I'll come out with one report so we can hit the state and get somebody's money and bring us into the 21st century. [Speaker 1] (1:09:16 - 1:12:02) Great. Cynthia, thanks. I appreciate it. Let me respond to where I was 20 years ago, 10 years and 5 years ago. I can tell you that none of us here are on the Housing Authority. That's where we weren't. And so the point here is we will support. The Housing Authority has been very clear. Staff has made inquiries. Select Board members have attempted to introduce themselves as the liaison to the Housing Authority in years past and have been told I don't have time. Come to a meeting. The primary responsibility is the Housing Authority. We will support it, Cynthia. But I have not heard. I hear what you're saying. It sounds awful the past year. But that's exactly why we need to be initiating things. That's exactly why when we met with you, Cynthia, your passion, your dedication and your love for your fellow residents is infectious. When David Grishman and I met with you, it was unquestionable. I would validate the choice of you as the tenant rep every day of the week even if every day of the week you called me up and told me what I wasn't doing well because it's important. That's what we're supposed to be doing. The reason we're having the conversation tonight, just so you know, is because one of your members did speak up. A member that I respect tremendously. Someone who has devoted and shown incredible contribution to our town. And after sitting on this board and going through the chaos and the bows and arrows that are slung at her, decided that she saw a need and went to the Housing Authority. The reason we are here tonight is not because she said she wanted to be here, but because she has had the audacity, apparently, the audacity to speak out and advocate. You are five individuals. Yes, official action is by the board, but advocacy is by the person. I want you to know the reason we're here tonight, what you like about this conversation is because of a board member who had the audacity to advocate and say that she wasn't comfortable with what wasn't happening. That's why we're here. We're going to continue to support, but our support means nothing without the Housing Authority taking the laboring oar. Again, Irma is very busy. I agree with you, so thank God there's a five member Housing Authority around her of volunteers that are really good intentioned to get the work done because that is actually where the hard work is going to have to happen, and I appreciate that a lot of bad things are happening. It sounds awful, and I look forward to the day that you're not just happy that a bench is put outside, but instead that you're watching people go up an elevator so they don't have the embarrassing situation of having to slide downstairs on their butt because they have an infirmity, whether it's a mobility issue, it's an age issue, it's a disease issue. The bench will be great, but I want us to be sitting on the bench looking at the person coming down the elevator together. Katherine, would you like to share some remarks before we move on for the night? [Speaker 17] (1:12:12 - 1:13:41) No, actually I think Cynthia and Vic and Irma have made pretty much represented my thoughts on the matter. I think I think it's been kind of some of your representation of how the Housing Authority has operated is kind of unfair. We have capital plans. There are things that get done. Fused panels that have to be replaced, asbestos, roofs that have to be replaced. Right now we're working on sustainability things, and Irma was able to get new heating systems, which are worth about $400,000 for no cost to the Housing Authority. That would make every room, every unit air conditioning, which they don't have now, as well as heating. There's quite a lot that's been accomplished, and I think it's kind of unfair to take this type of critical attitude, rather than take if you want to work together, I think it makes more sense to be positive and constructive. I don't think any of that is constructive. So that's basically my thought on it. I think we need to work together, and we need to communicate. [Speaker 1] (1:13:42 - 1:13:50) Thanks, Catherine. Any other comments? Any other comments from Housing Authority members? We appreciate that. [Speaker 3] (1:13:50 - 1:13:51) Can I ask a question? [Speaker 1] (1:13:51 - 1:13:56) Oh, yeah, sorry. Neil's from Saskatchewan. Go ahead. You're on the air. [Speaker 3] (1:13:57 - 1:14:43) Yeah. Sorry for the delay. You alluded to it in your comments, and Cynthia did too, but perhaps there have been conversations, I'm just not aware of it, about having a liaison from the Select Board to the Housing Authority. I know it's not the same traditional relationship as other committees, but has that been discussed? And I guess along those lines, is there a staff person who is the primary contact? I know all staff are available if Housing Authority has questions, but would it make sense to have one staff member at Town Hall be sort of that go-between? [Speaker 4] (1:14:44 - 1:16:06) So, Neil, just I think to your last question, Peter did indicate to the Housing Authority earlier that Marzi is the best point person for the Town, Director of Communication Development, and then in terms of the liaison, I was the liaison last year and did reach out. I was, I think Peter's referring to, where I was told to go to the meeting if I had something to say. I don't have anything particular to say. I was just trying to reach out to encourage the communication between the Housing Authority and our board. It wasn't welcome at the time. It is what it is, but I did attempt several times to do that, and then eventually I didn't continue with the communication. There is a liaison still. You can reach out to any one of us. I believe I'm still the liaison. Our emails are public, and you can email us anytime. You can call us, and we'd be more than happy to come to a meeting if there's something that you wanted to discuss, or have you come present at one of our meetings if there's something, or just communicate offline individually, and we can work on it informally that way. I do want to encourage that, but it has been, just in our defense, difficult in the past to initiate communication. [Speaker 1] (1:16:10 - 1:17:11) Marzi, just to give Marzi credit, Marzi's already emailing Cara, and your email is already an email from Marzi trying to reach out with an answer, so I think Marzi is the logical and appropriate, and to the extent there's things that she doesn't know, I think she's very resourceful in finding answers, so I would strongly recommend Marzi as the point of contact. I know Marzi's hearing us, so I can tell she's nodding her head somewhere over the internet at the moment for that. Anything further? We look forward to having you back. Marzi's the one to follow up, please, on the invitation to use facilities like this and to use the town's Facebook page, and I appreciate what Cynthia said about people's sensitivity. All the more reason we should be using the virtual resources that we have so people can, in the comfort and the anonymity, if that's what they seek, have an opportunity to witness, and to chime in, to email questions, and to do that. It sounds like that's a perfect opportunity for people to get exposure and learn things in the privacy of their home, if that's what they want, or live, if that's what they want as well. [Speaker 4] (1:17:11 - 1:17:58) To that point, actually, sorry. Cynthia, I really appreciate you bringing up I wouldn't have had intuitively, you know, it wouldn't have just come to me in the front of my mind, like, oh, people wouldn't want to come because they might feel embarrassed or whatever, just because that wouldn't be my experience on this end, but at the same time, I really appreciate you bringing that to our attention, and just really appreciate that you're aware of that, and sensitive to that, and are willing and very capable of speaking on people's behalf if they don't feel, first of all, I would want to welcome them, and without any judgment, but I understand how every, you know, people are different, so I appreciate you speaking on anyone's behalf who doesn't feel comfortable speaking up themselves. Thanks. [Speaker 1] (1:17:59 - 1:18:43) All right, thank you all very much. Thank you. Have a good night. All right. I mean, that's an opening act for our interim police chief. Chief Curtis is here tonight, and officially, and has been officially on the job, and we thought, and the chief thought it would be a good opportunity for us to visit with him, not over the internet, but to visit with him live, and have him just come share comments, and thoughts, and perspectives, and just for a few minutes, and if there were any questions, great, but really just an opportunity for the chief to speak to us, and through [Speaker 5] (1:18:43 - 1:22:55) us to the public, so welcome. Well, great. Thank you very much for inviting me here this evening. As you know, and it may be confusing to others, as the interim police chief, I'm essentially assigned here from the Municipal Resource Corporation that has me as the interim chief on contract. I'm here for 24 hours a week, so I'll try to squeeze a lot of time in, and energy, and focus on that. I was able to spend two weeks with your retiring police chief, Ron Madigan, who was just an outstanding police chief, a joy to work with, big shoes to fill. That being said, any organization can be enhanced by outside vision. I have a strong background in smaller police departments on a national basis, working for the Department of Justice, working for the International Association of Chiefs of Police, and other organizations that do consulting across the country, and make recommendations. I'm in a unique situation to offer you some of those things. Right now, especially, we're focusing on, well, I should say, one of the pleasures that I had was coming into the organization and having an opportunity to meet the really remarkable people who are working for you, and their level of commitment, their desire to do the right thing for the citizens of Swanscot was really a welcoming, refreshing view from my point, where I've seen many police departments nationally that are not so committed. That was a great step in the right direction, and they all seem to be very embracing of my ideas, and hopefully we can collaborate more on some positive movement forward with some 21st century policing and things of that nature. You have an immediate issue regarding leaving civil service, which I think will serve the community very well. I don't have a lot of experience in civil service, other than to say that when I grew up in Saugus and wanted to be a police officer, it was really difficult for me to do so, and I ended up in Maine and New Hampshire and find myself now just next door coming down here to help you get out of civil service and create an opportunity for maybe a wide-reaching opportunity to look for a more reflective police department for the community, and that does mean putting together a hiring process, a selection process, one that vets the best qualified employee to serve the citizens of Smallsville. Additionally to that, there needs to be a promotional process that needs to satisfy that the best qualified person within the department is being promoted to the next level, and so all these things are new to the organization. They are embracing them. We're working closely and have a meeting on Monday with some of the union members to draft out some of the language that I would then present to the new human resource director, as well as to Sean, the town administrator. So that seems to be a main function. There's a whole raft of things that I'm working on. There's some radio communication issues that we've detected that we're trying to work our way through that unfortunately either wasn't detected or needs to be addressed more aggressively than we thought, so we're working on finding not only grants, but opportunities where we could scale back on some other things to make sure that the officers are being able to communicate and deliver these services to the citizens while obviously being safe to themselves. I was able to I'm working with Max Casper. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:22:56 - 1:22:57) You don't need to know it until the third week. [Speaker 5] (1:22:58 - 1:23:04) Typically? A lot has to do with the glasses from here. It looks like Casper. [Speaker 1] (1:23:05 - 1:23:18) But that being said, from here on out, he is hereby known as Max Casper. Is that a motion? We move to change his name. Not his title. We're changing people's names now. [Speaker 5] (1:23:19 - 1:26:04) We're working together to collaborate. What's interesting from my perspective, and I was really happy to see it, was the coordination effort that's being put into doing a town-wide system on video cameras as opposed to having every department do individual. That is a model. You'd like to think it's happening everywhere, but I can assure you, sadly, it is not. We're working together on that. I've met with the business office and explained my Yankee frugal nature. I don't like spending money. I'm looking for things for free. Except, of course, me. Let's see. I've worked with the Traffic Safety Committee. We're going to formulate some regulations and rules. At the danger of even mentioning this in this room, I'll do so. We're gathering some data so that we have factual things to work on. I'm working with the supervisors to ensure that the citizens of this community see their offices downtown in the area of Humphrey Street specifically. Let's see. I was able to meet with the superintendent. We have a vacancy for the school resource officer. I've committed to her that we will work collaboratively to identify an appropriate person to be in there. They do, as the community may know. I was pleased to see that the school department pays two-thirds of that person's salary to focus on the schools. We want to make sure that they're engaged in the selection of that person to be there, to be a mentor, to be a coach, to be a role model, to assist the school in anything but disciplinary issues. We're not there as law enforcement in this vein, although we're there to be seen as law enforcement and to forge those relationships in a positive way. And then that's pretty much I mean I could go into a lot of minutiae, but I'm looking at a lot of systems that are in place. The department is accredited by the Massachusetts Police Accreditation Coalition, MassPAC it's called, and they're up for re-accreditation and we've been working on that. I feel we're in good position to move forward for re-accreditation and I'm looking for enhancers that will only improve that opportunity. I'm open to any questions and I look forward to working with all of you. Chief, it's been great working with you. [Speaker 2] (1:26:04 - 1:26:10) Could you share a little more about some of the conversations you've had with some of the other stakeholders in Swanscape? [Speaker 5] (1:26:11 - 1:27:04) I'm meeting with I will be shortly having a Zoom meeting with four people who I will do poorly on identifying, but I'm reaching out to them to get a flavor for what the community is looking for. One of the problems for police is that we try to be all things to all people and sometimes we're successful at that and other times we are not, but that doesn't mean we don't make every effort to try and that's what we can commit to do. I look forward to getting that litmus paper test, if you will, of a flavor of the community from this group that I'll be able to coordinate some efforts with. I've talked to various police chiefs in the area. Everything sounds good from my perspective. They're all engaging. What can we do to help? I'm happy about that. [Speaker 12] (1:27:05 - 1:27:50) I have a Please go ahead. Clearly, I think we're all saddened and we feel the vacancy of Chief Madigan, but your independent experience perspective is timely, given some of the things we're going through, so we appreciate that. One particular question I have is and I don't mean to put you on the spot, which means I'm putting you on the spot. We talked about this during the interview process, but what's your perspective about putting some guidelines, policies, procedures in place for these protests that we have? Again, without affecting free speech, but just putting some guidelines in place for public safety? I think they're certainly not going away and we also have a school year coming up. We're going to be back where we were last year. [Speaker 5] (1:27:52 - 1:28:47) Obviously, one of the very nature of policing is we want to ensure people have the right to protest peacefully and do it appropriately. While there are other people who may not be as interested, they certainly want to have a right to walk through sidewalks and get down streets and things of that nature. I'm looking at those things. It is always a balancing act, but I'm not really prepared to speak in detail on these things, but I do know that there are communities that have processes so that these things are known, are going to occur, and that there's a fair and equal playing field for all people so that we can be heard individually and collectively. That's pretty critical. [Speaker 1] (1:28:50 - 1:29:26) Other questions? Chief, I look forward to two questions. One's a statement. I look forward to combining your experience with your time here in helping us craft a better understanding of what you believe your successor, our next permanent police chief, what he or she looks like and brings to the table and complementary skills and to help us navigate some of the issues that we as a community need to navigate. That's exciting to be able to combine all that. [Speaker 5] (1:29:27 - 1:30:18) I will say as the consultant that is really exciting. Kudos to you for allowing me to be here, if you will, because now I have really intimate insight as to what that next police chief quality should consist of. Not only from within the agency but from hearing what's going on from the community and what they're looking for and certainly the skill set that he or she should have to move the department and the community forward. It's a great opportunity and that will be certainly that criteria, that skill set will certainly be identified. My last question is you didn't mention anything about Fire Chief Archie. He's my new best friend. [Speaker 1] (1:30:21 - 1:31:34) One name per meeting. I actually withdraw the Max Casker motion and I'd like to go with Chief Archie. We'll talk about Chief Archie next time. I'm glad you said next time. Thank you very much for being here. Great. We're doing really good on time but I'm going to, with the indulgence of the board, before we get to the water and sewer rate preliminary conversation there's going to be no votes on the fiscal year 22 water and sewer rates. It's merely a continuation of a conversation tonight but before we do that I would like to ask Sean, Ali or whomever is doing it to update us relative to some actually it was in the right order. Never mind. I'm not taking things out of order. The next thing up is a discussion relative to pedestrian safety initiatives. I do not anticipate there's a vote that follows here but really an update from staff as to certain initiatives that are taking place before the beginning of the school year. So I don't know. There she is. She's on our screen now. I don't know if this is you but whoever it is. [Speaker 13] (1:31:34 - 1:31:48) I think that Gino will be doing the presentation. I shared with Ali a PowerPoint presentation for the board so I do hope that you have it but I'm available to address any further questions that you might have. So Ali please bring up the PowerPoint. [Speaker 1] (1:31:49 - 1:32:07) Great. And then Ali when you do have a second will you just go back to attendees please on Zoom. Thank you. And then when you're done with that tell us is Archie at Y or is E-Y at the end? [Speaker 20] (1:32:08 - 1:32:09) I-E. I-E. [Speaker 1] (1:32:10 - 1:32:13) I-E. Come on. I-E. Okay. Well there we go. I-E it is. [Speaker 12] (1:32:16 - 1:32:17) I'm already changing the name. We'll change the spelling. [Speaker 1] (1:32:27 - 1:32:40) If you go to slideshow click that and then all the way on the left hand side right there. And then if you just click you have the note showing here. Sorry I'm not going to help you from here on that. [Speaker 20] (1:32:41 - 1:32:41) Nice. [Speaker 1] (1:32:48 - 1:32:58) I have complete confidence. So it's about I can barely see. [Speaker 4] (1:32:58 - 1:32:59) It would be under view I would imagine. [Speaker 1] (1:32:59 - 1:33:00) No it's on the bottom screen. [Speaker 14] (1:33:00 - 1:33:04) On the bottom right. [Speaker 1] (1:33:05 - 1:33:05) See that? [Speaker 14] (1:33:05 - 1:33:06) Look at that. [Speaker 1] (1:33:07 - 1:33:39) Yeah so it's not that one. In the meantime we're just going to sit here and think seriously about pedestrian safety. All right. So why we're doing that I'm actually going to with everyone's indulgence we're going to go to the consent agenda. The consent agenda I'm going to do it really quickly. Consent agenda is an opportunity we only have one thing on the consent agenda which is approval of minutes from June 30th 2021. Is there any questions or comments? And if not is there a motion to approve the minutes? So moved. [Speaker 4] (1:33:40 - 1:33:40) Second. [Speaker 1] (1:33:41 - 1:33:43) Any questions or comments? All those in favor? [Speaker 20] (1:33:43 - 1:33:43) Aye. [Speaker 1] (1:33:44 - 1:33:47) Neil are you still with us? [Speaker 3] (1:33:50 - 1:33:50) Aye. [Speaker 1] (1:33:51 - 1:34:15) All right. That's good. I forget you're a seven second time delay. We do that because we're not sure what you're going to say. But we have to wait for your vote as well. All right. Gino. I think probably here is just fine. Just got to tell Ali I think when to change the slide for you. [Speaker 6] (1:34:19 - 1:35:12) All right. So traffic study committee had some recommendations for the thermal crosswalk painting. If you're not familiar with thermal crosswalk painting it's more of a plastic. You've probably seen it out on Paradise Road or over by Bellow Street and over by the train depot. Thermal plastics are a little bit more expensive. On the positive side probably last four or five years as opposed to the regular paint that last six months. I know they water it down. We came up with some recommendations for the painting crosswalks. I met with Chief Graham Archer Captain Joe Cable. We came up with 31 locations. I don't know if you want to go through each one of these locations. [Speaker 1] (1:35:14 - 1:35:27) So I think let's do it because it's actually pretty quick because they're consolidated relatively speaking. I think it's helpful for people at home to see. Tell us thematically it's not universal but thematically where and how did you identify these crosswalks? [Speaker 6] (1:35:27 - 1:35:50) Our biggest concern was around the schools. Child safety and school safety is our number one priority here. Our first concentration was around the schools. We started with the middle school. We were going to do two thermal plastic crosswalks. One at the middle school entrance and the second one at Sergeant Road. Next slide please. [Speaker 4] (1:35:51 - 1:36:02) So Gino can I just interrupt you after the first one. The thermal plastic is more visible just better quality just so like this is an example. [Speaker 1] (1:36:03 - 1:36:10) So can you give her an example of where in town thermal plastic is currently? I think you did and that's why I said it. [Speaker 6] (1:36:10 - 1:36:11) I'll do it again. [Speaker 4] (1:36:11 - 1:36:12) I appreciate it. [Speaker 6] (1:36:13 - 1:36:21) Laurel Street at Middlesex at around the railroad station and then there's a handful of them on Paradise Road. Paradise Road as well. [Speaker 1] (1:36:21 - 1:36:35) MassDOT did thermal plastic on their crosswalks. Paradise at Elmwood. And you'll notice that it's vibrant. It stays solid white as opposed to if you go by the crosswalks now many of them you virtually can't see because it just wears off so quickly. [Speaker 6] (1:36:35 - 1:36:42) We can attest to that too because of the sidewalks where we put the pavers next to it. Those are thermal plastic on Humphrey Street. [Speaker 1] (1:36:42 - 1:36:50) That was five or six years ago. And when they're first painted you actually feel them with your tires. That's how thick it is. [Speaker 4] (1:36:52 - 1:36:53) Okay. Thanks. [Speaker 6] (1:36:54 - 1:37:58) You're welcome. Then we move on to over by the Stanley School. You'll see two of them on Orchard Road at Winton. Humphrey Street at Orchard Circle. And we moved away from the schools. We had some other concerns with some other heavy traffic locations. Although this is closer to the Abbey School. It's Humphrey Street at Monument Ave. I don't think anybody could question that one. Tough spot. Next slide, please. North Orchard Ave at the Clark School. Front door. Next slide. Reddington Street at Blaney. Right across from the Abbey School. We came up with Reddington at Banks Road. Bottom of that. Most of the kids coming from the middle school or children coming up from Abbey. [Speaker 1] (1:37:59 - 1:38:05) So that's all four there? Or is it three there? [Speaker 6] (1:38:05 - 1:38:07) It's actually three of them. [Speaker 1] (1:38:07 - 1:38:21) So the one that's on what I'll call Reddington to Reddington. Sorry, Forest Ave to Forest Ave you're not doing. You're doing the one that crosses Banks. You're doing the one that crosses Reddington. You're doing the one that crosses Devons. [Speaker 6] (1:38:24 - 1:39:22) We'll talk about that one in a little while. That's what they look like. That is the bottom of that. Those are good. Humphrey Street at Lyons Ave. You're going to do three of them there. School across. Next slide. This one here is Essex Street at Murphy Road. There's actually three crosswalks there. You're probably familiar with that one there, Polly, right? Yes. [Speaker 4] (1:39:26 - 1:39:27) Now to get people to stop at that light. [Speaker 6] (1:39:29 - 1:39:42) Both ways. Spikes. Essex Street at Stetson Ave. A long crosswalk there. Two blocks to Stetson. Pedestrian traffic signal there. [Speaker 1] (1:39:43 - 1:39:53) Let me ask you. What's being shown there and the one that crosses Essex where the pedestrian traffic signal is? Because people blow that traffic signal just because if you don't know it's there. [Speaker 6] (1:39:57 - 1:39:58) Perpetually green. [Speaker 1] (1:40:00 - 1:40:15) Currently, it's perpetually green. There we go. We'll talk about that next. Can we just make sure that cross across Essex Street there is also treated just because that's where for kids going to high school, that's a predominant crosswalk. [Speaker 4] (1:40:15 - 1:40:20) I totally agree that even as somebody who passes it all the time, it's hard to really tell. [Speaker 6] (1:40:20 - 1:42:56) We'll just make sure that one's added. We just cut down a couple of branches on it. It wasn't helping that cause. Next slide. Mason Road at Orchard Road. Next slide. Middlesex at Fox School. That's the school in there. Street at Salem. That's the school in there. One of them I believe is already thermoplastic. His work was done here by the MBTA. We're going to work on doing the one that runs across Salem Street. Next slide please. Humphrey Street at Orchard Road. School in there. A lot of these we decided thermoplastic to use because there's crossing guards at many of these locations. We thought that would help that cause. We've been putting those pedestrian traffic cones in the middle of the street. Those don't seem to last very long. They get hit. Humphrey Street at St. John's Church. An obvious one. Part of these I should add that not only are we doing thermoplastic along the lines, we're also doing the hash marks. Humphrey Street at Reddington. That's the three of them there. I believe it's the last one. One unit at Watson Road. You'll see this picture. We're probably only going to do one of them currently because we're going to be coming before you possibly the next meeting. There's going to be a recommendation to move the crosswalk and the stop sign at the end of Monument at Walker. Currently it's really not set up good. The stop bar is way behind the crosswalk. It has a stop in and then it's just blowing through the stop signs here. In any event, once we make that change, we will be painting that one thermoplastic as well. [Speaker 1] (1:42:56 - 1:42:57) But the one going across Walker is? [Speaker 6] (1:42:58 - 1:43:01) Yes, that's another one that has one of those traffic cones. [Speaker 1] (1:43:04 - 1:43:12) Some night I'm going to stay up late and I'm going to wait for that person. It's the same person that habitually moves that traffic cone to the side. I'm convinced it's the same person. I'm going to find out who it is. [Speaker 6] (1:43:13 - 1:43:24) Amen. She does a real good job. I'm going to thank her for doing that. All right, so that's it. I'm going to ask the thermoplastic sidewalks. [Speaker 1] (1:43:24 - 1:43:33) Does anybody have any questions? Should I add any locations? There's another phase of the conversation. Can we go to the next part before we go to questions, if you don't mind, because that way you have the full picture? [Speaker 6] (1:43:33 - 1:43:33) Sure. [Speaker 1] (1:43:34 - 1:43:36) It may answer it or not. [Speaker 6] (1:43:37 - 1:43:39) For the next part, I think I'm going to wing this. [Speaker 1] (1:43:41 - 1:43:45) We're part of this as well. Do we not have a presentation showing us the location of the... [Speaker 6] (1:43:45 - 1:43:47) I think it's going to be up here. [Speaker 1] (1:43:47 - 1:44:07) Oh, I got you. Fair enough. You're looking for the presentation that's called Recommended Locations for RRFB Crossings. Thank you. [Speaker 13] (1:44:08 - 1:44:19) Actually, Gino, those were at the very beginning of the presentation when you started with the Forest Ave at Swansport Middle School. Those were the... [Speaker 6] (1:44:19 - 1:44:28) She's right. There's an overlap. All the ones I told you we're going to put the thermoplastic crosswalks, eight of those are also going to have... [Speaker 1] (1:44:28 - 1:44:43) Let's just go back and look at which ones of those... What you're saying is eight of those locations are also going to have RRFB crossing signals. Maybe you can start by... Is there a graphic showing people what that signal is? [Speaker 6] (1:44:44 - 1:44:51) I don't think so, but I can probably explain it properly. Similar to the one we have at St. John's right now. [Speaker 1] (1:44:53 - 1:45:33) Ali, can you go back to the picture of Humphrey Street and Salem Street, please? Keep going. It's one of the last ones. Keep going. It's one of the last ones we did. Keep going. Stop. Is there a way for you to blow up anything on your screen? That's almost exactly what it is. It's those signs right there that the MBTA put in when they changed the bus stop location. Correct me if I'm wrong. They're solar operated. You can control them on each side. When you push it, the beacons both ways on both sides are the flashing pretty bright. [Speaker 6] (1:45:39 - 1:45:40) Really rapid flashing. [Speaker 20] (1:45:40 - 1:45:41) There we go. [Speaker 6] (1:45:43 - 1:46:27) I like that. That's what we'll go with. We came up with eight locations for those. That's Keebox, South, Collaborate, we came up with these locations. I referred to two obvious ones right there at the beginning. One's the middle school entrance is there. Once again, Crossing God there. We actually made some changes there to help the crossing of Forest Ave to get into the middle school entrance. Instead of crossing twice, we moved the crosswalk down towards the cafeteria side. That's been very helpful so far. Now you only have to cross once. [Speaker 1] (1:46:32 - 1:46:40) The two main pedestrian crossing paths for the middle school will both have a rectangular rapid flashing beacon. [Speaker 6] (1:46:40 - 1:46:42) Thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:46:42 - 1:46:45) Thank you, Google. I think it was Yahoo. [Speaker 6] (1:46:51 - 1:47:00) Next location. Humphrey Street at Orchard Circle. Very dangerous intersection right there for everybody crossing. [Speaker 1] (1:47:00 - 1:47:02) Do you mind going back to the orchard? [Speaker 20] (1:47:03 - 1:47:04) I'm sorry. [Speaker 6] (1:47:06 - 1:47:24) That's not it. Next one. That one. Correct? There's no question about that one. We all agree on that one. Next one. Again, we have one of the traffic cones up there. [Speaker 1] (1:47:24 - 1:48:10) It's on Humphrey Street at Monument Ave. Can we, on this one, first of all, awesome you're doing it. We talked about it the other day. When drivers coming up a monument look left to see if it's clear and they see someone slowing down, they always assume it's to let them go when that person could actually be slowing down because there's someone in the crosswalk. Then they turn right and there's immediately someone in the crosswalk. That beacon that's on the near side corner of Monument and Humphrey needs to be set so that people on both Monument and Humphrey can see it. Because when you're turning right off of Monument, you need to be able to see that beacon flashing already because it doesn't do any good if you've already turned and you're in the sidewalk and it's flashing. [Speaker 4] (1:48:10 - 1:48:14) It goes on both sides. The flashing happens on both sides. [Speaker 1] (1:48:14 - 1:49:15) We've got to think about that. That may also be a height issue too because it may be I'm not quite sure how to do it. I really don't. I don't know what the answer is. That one's a tough one because that beacon needs to be advising two different directions at the same time unless we put a second pole facing directly on Monument. Let's make sure people are talking about it before someone just puts it up because I think you can put it up somewhere where it would be totally not doing 50% of what it needs to be doing. I don't know. I haven't a clue what the answer is. Again, that's another great idea because it feels a little bit like a slip turn. It feels a little bit like it so cars roll especially when they see no traffic coming the other way or they want to beat someone. They absolutely roll that. [Speaker 2] (1:49:16 - 1:49:21) It's surprising how many intersections in Swampstead we actually kind of saw. [Speaker 1] (1:49:21 - 1:49:30) Olmstead like that because horses don't like to turn at 90 degrees. Dead serious. That was the original plan. [Speaker 2] (1:49:30 - 1:50:33) Horses don't turn at 90 degrees. One of the things that you'll notice with the crosswalks too is that they're typically placed in the area where you could have the longest stretch of the crosswalk. That typically is where you get the greatest risk to pedestrian safety. We've got to kind of think about the geometry of all of these intersections. As we begin to kind of start this conversation, I think it's really generating a lot of really critical thinking about how do we define each of these critical crosswalks and intersections in a 21st century way because they were defined during a time when we actually had horse and buggy. We have yet to actually bring that 21st century thought to a community where people love to walk. Hopefully this conversation really will generate many more critical conversations. [Speaker 6] (1:50:34 - 1:51:01) Next one, Gino. I think it's going to say Norfolk at the Clark School. Correct. Right there. We also discussed the intent isn't to eliminate the crossing guards either, even though a lot of these are going to be with the crossing guards. We also talked about what's happening there is more of a need for the crossing guards. We're having trouble filling those. [Speaker 1] (1:51:01 - 1:51:34) They haven't in recent years had one there because of the lack of crossing guards. I actually saw the Clark School principal this morning and she actually it wasn't intuitive to me that you would do this one versus the one over on Middlesex, but she actually says it is because Middlesex is relatively slow speed whereas this car when they're coming down Norfolk have a good head of steam on them and this will matter. Even though it may have lower volume pedestrian wise it has higher speeds and she worries about this one. This was a good choice by you all. [Speaker 15] (1:51:35 - 1:51:38) Middlesex also has the school drop off too. [Speaker 6] (1:51:42 - 1:51:52) Next slide please, Ali. Same exact thing as the Clark School but for the Harvey School. Crossing the street there. [Speaker 1] (1:51:53 - 1:52:19) Again, I just would ask us to let's think about that telephone pole. That's just one that occurred to me when I looked at it previously. There's a telephone coming down the downhill side so that sign needs to be somewhere that isn't obstructed. Blocking by the telephone pole. I don't know what the answer is but maybe it is the telephone pole being part of the sign. Again, I have no idea. I'm just saying that it can block it. [Speaker 6] (1:52:19 - 1:52:55) At least on the uphill side of the pole. I think there's going to be a lot of thought that has to go into these other than just slapping them in there and hoping for the best because it was with the money that were appropriated to have BPW staff install these. Next slide please. Previously we were talking about all the crosswalks at Rennington Banks, Forest Ave where they all intersect but we thought a good spot for that would be Rennington Street right at Banks Road should run perpendicular to the bottom of Banks. [Speaker 4] (1:53:03 - 1:53:04) That's the last one. [Speaker 6] (1:53:04 - 1:53:07) Looks like you're ready to say something. [Speaker 1] (1:53:07 - 1:53:19) No, no, no. I'm thinking about it. I know that intersection. I think of those intersections that's the more visually challenging one. [Speaker 6] (1:53:19 - 1:53:21) That's what Cheryl thought as well, right? [Speaker 1] (1:53:22 - 1:53:31) Again, the people turning right off of Forest onto Banks, the beacon may not serve as good of a function there. [Speaker 6] (1:53:32 - 1:53:35) Turning right off of Forest, there is a stop sign there. [Speaker 1] (1:53:35 - 1:53:37) Yes, there is. There's lots of stop signs in our town. [Speaker 4] (1:53:37 - 1:53:41) Is that the loss of the RR? [Speaker 20] (1:53:44 - 1:53:44) FBs. [Speaker 6] (1:53:44 - 1:53:48) I think what we were thinking, Polly, is because they're relatively expensive. [Speaker 4] (1:53:48 - 1:53:49) Oh, no, yeah. [Speaker 6] (1:53:50 - 1:53:53) Fully believing that there will be more to come in the future. [Speaker 4] (1:53:53 - 1:55:04) Yes. No, I understand. I think to clarify for everybody, I think we're clear but that this is the initial first wave of renewed focus on pedestrian safety, focuses on school because of children and also school year starting, right? So I understand that and I appreciate that. My questions are and I say this as just thinking out loud, I don't mean to, you know, people in the neighborhood would know better than me. It's not intuitive to me that Reddington and Banks, that intersection since there's so many stops and so much traffic there anyway, would be a flashing light. I can see the thermal plastic but the flashing light and similar at Forest Ave just because I don't feel like that gets a lot of traffic outside of school hours when there's already crossing guards and a lot of people so just to have a flashing crosswalk there during the, you know, for other times, I feel like those are would be more productive for really main intersections that don't have times where they're monitored by, you know, crossing guards or what have you. [Speaker 6] (1:55:04 - 1:55:14) I think one of the thoughts about the middle school, it also has the ball fields behind there so it's used outside of the school year similar to the cafeteria side. [Speaker 4] (1:55:14 - 1:55:24) So people are walking on the far side at that point of the street and crossing to the middle school like at night? I guess yes. [Speaker 6] (1:55:25 - 1:55:27) Most of them are probably in a vehicle but Right. [Speaker 4] (1:55:29 - 1:55:30) Alright. [Speaker 6] (1:55:31 - 1:55:38) Oh, of course. [Speaker 4] (1:55:38 - 1:56:38) Yeah, I'm just thinking I don't know why I was thinking night time for baseball games but yes, yeah. Alright, and then the only other thing is I understand that this is the first wave and it also seems like, you know, the train station area has already been kind of like addressed except I would say I really think it's like an urgency at Essex Street crossing to Essex Ave where Tony Lina's is. It is like a death trap. Like you run for your life anytime you cross that intersection and it's a really busy commuter cross and people are on Essex Street just like, I don't care, I'm going to work, whatever, at like early in the morning, late at night, people are flying. It's very dangerous there and it's one that I think could really benefit immediately from both thermoplastic and flashing lights and I don't I mean, I used to walk my dog with a friend every morning and even at 6 in the morning it was like scary. [Speaker 6] (1:56:39 - 1:56:51) Yes, we didn't consider that one but that is very good. We did consider the one at Fargo at Middlesex. When that first wave of people gets off the train at maybe 5 o'clock and see everybody just crossing there. [Speaker 4] (1:56:51 - 1:57:02) At least something to think about. That's the only one that I could see that is, I get there's a lot of places in town that need attention but just because of the commuter aspect of it. [Speaker 2] (1:57:03 - 1:59:28) You know, we did actually discuss Vinden Square and the MBTA neighborhood and Humphrey Street as really critical areas outside of the schools so we'll go back and really take a harder look at those two spots and really think about how to make that work over the next few weeks. We know that we're working with kind of a time constraint for the school projects but certainly this is the really first kind of phase of trying to think more critically about key pedestrian safety areas and if the board has additional suggestions I would encourage you to kind of send those along and we'll do our best to try to incorporate some of these investments into our plan. I fully anticipate that we'll be back right after Labor Day with another update to the board to really talk more critically about the empirical data associated with enforcement. I've talked to Chief Kurz about really matching these infrastructure investments with enforcement activities that help us understand how many traffic patrols we have, how many hours a week we're actually going to be out really enforcing crosswalk safety, how many enforcement activities we have that really help us encourage positive behavior. I do expect to be reporting out weekly data on traffic stops and speed. I really want to think carefully about how we identify distracted drivers as well. We know that we are all busy looking at devices. We have to correct some of that behavior if we're really going to ensure that Swamp Street's going to be safer. I think there are positive ways that we can coordinate some of that public education effort and I don't want to suggest that it's all about enforcement, but with the right balance of infrastructure, education, and enforcement, we can make a difference in how safe this community can be and it starts with really just focusing on these critical responsibilities. [Speaker 12] (1:59:29 - 1:59:36) Peabody's actually really stepped up their distracted driving enforcement. I'm speaking from experience. [Speaker 20] (1:59:37 - 1:59:37) Peabody. [Speaker 12] (1:59:37 - 1:59:38) Peabody. [Speaker 4] (1:59:38 - 1:59:43) They are experienced although I appeal to them. [Speaker 15] (1:59:44 - 2:00:37) Hey, Gino, I did have one comment about the Monument Ave and Burrell Street, particularly crossing Burrell Street. You can see it. It's the second image on the recommended locations for thermal crosswalks. And this really highlights my point pretty well. You can see the crosswalk is probably a car to two car length before the stop sign. It is Humphrey Street at Monument Ave. Right there. You can see the car that's right there. I just noticed when I was going to the farmer's market, I parked and I walked the cross at the crosswalk and there was a car parked there. Cars that are coming up to that stop sign are slowing down, but they're not stopped. It's dangerous because it's almost blind when you have that spot right there. [Speaker 6] (2:00:38 - 2:00:55) That's probably one of the more messed up intersections in the swamp. In theory, the stop bar should be before the crosswalk there. What we thought about is moving the crosswalk down closer to the intersection, but there's a storm drain right there that's preventing me from doing that right now. [Speaker 15] (2:00:55 - 2:00:59) Is it even possible to just make that a no parking? [Speaker 1] (2:00:59 - 2:01:57) Just so there's greater visibility? I almost got hit with my... I'm so glad you're raising this. We've talked about this. We have got to make sure, and again, I appreciate that we feel as though we've got to come to the select board to mark off before on the driving side, the directional side of the crosswalk before you get there. I'm going to say 20 feet before a crosswalk cannot be a parking area. We can't just black out, and I appreciate you did. You went through and did it. People still park in those spaces just like that car, for example, is parked close. We need to hash them out literally, and again, that may be thermoplastic as well, to be able to hash out those areas so that people are perfectly clear because if we don't have enforcement, then let's have shame. Let's have people literally parking on hashed off areas. But I'm being really serious because it is so bad on Humphrey Street in particular. [Speaker 2] (2:01:57 - 2:02:07) These aren't humorous to me because we've had traffic fatalities, and when you can't see crosswalks, that's a real risk. [Speaker 1] (2:02:08 - 2:03:27) No, it just is. It actually is, and again, we're making progress, but when we do these crosswalks, we have to simultaneously make sure that every crosswalk, when we're doing this, we should be making sure every single crosswalk, not just the thermoplastic, but when you're doing your annual crosswalks, this should be just a done deal. It should be clearly, and we can't just rely, and again, not having a marked parking space is enough, especially on side streets where there aren't marked parking spaces to begin with, just because reality is, I appreciate you saying we're going to talk about enforcement to that end. In order to talk about what we're going to do next, I want to know what we're doing now, right? So I want to know the data. What's our enforcement in terms of tickets or citations or stops or warnings? How many shifts? How many hours are we spending a week so that we at least have a baseline? Because where we're going doesn't mean much if we don't understand where we've been. But I don't think we should realistically think enforcement's all of a sudden going to happen where it hasn't been happening. And so on crosswalks in particular, it is typically at nighttime. It is typically in, and it's just, Humphrey Street's the perfect, and this one is the perfect example of where it happens all the time. You have to step out from the car and literally just be the beacon yourself to do it. [Speaker 6] (2:03:27 - 2:03:54) I'd say the worst one is right around the corner from that. Where we blacked that one out. Right where the crosswalk is. Yeah, Humphrey Street. I think I can hatch them out with paint. I can almost do that immediately. Great. [Speaker 1] (2:03:55 - 2:04:37) Let me ask, are those fines, just out of curiosity, this is a later conversation, are those fines established by state law? So parking near a crosswalk is a state law fine? Or is that something that a town determines those things? I guess, can you come back and tell us that question? I can tell you we've never once, and maybe it's not this board, we've never once ever had that conversation, so I have no idea how any of that, like, parking fines in our town are determined by who. I believe it's... So in seven years, it's never been a topic. And frankly, it didn't occur to me to ask for seven years. It's not one of the revenue... No, no, it's not about revenue. To me, it's absolutely not about revenue. It's about just making someone think twice. [Speaker 6] (2:04:38 - 2:04:40) We will definitely look into that. [Speaker 1] (2:04:40 - 2:05:23) Thank you. Can I be so bold to say you're coming back post-Labor Day with the idea and the recognition that we have a special town meeting in November, potentially? That maybe might have further beacon locations or other things. There are just... We can't reshape every single intersection, but between traffic calming measures and relatively cheap safety measures, there's like, this is a down payment, but a really small... I'm grateful to you focusing on this, but this is a really small down payment relative to what we should be doing. If we were to truly ask most neighborhoods, they would identify exponentially, and not everyone needs it, but a lot of them do. [Speaker 2] (2:05:24 - 2:06:04) Yeah, Peter, I'm actually eager to clip off this relatively small list of small infrastructure investments and come back with a little bit more of a meaningful investment that would give the citizens of Swampskate a sense that we actually want to do less talking about the things that we hope to do and more action on some of these issues. We've talked about this for the last two board meetings, and we've got to get busy protecting these neighborhoods, and we intend to do that. [Speaker 1] (2:06:05 - 2:07:10) The last thing I have is on crossing guards. If you could please take advantage of the new chief to work with the new SRO, to work with the superintendent to hopefully recruit more, but also provide them better training to really help them. When we did that modified program at the end of the school year at the middle school, police officers were watching the crossing guards, and it was clear the crossing guards would have benefited from understanding some better techniques or some better methodologies of how to do things that will both help traffic flow, but increase safety as well, and I'm sure they would love to have that additional support. So if we can just make sure that's happening, and that's a training thing, but it's important. And Kevin Rogers, who's a middle school teacher, was like the best traffic guard, because he stands in traffic, puts those arms up, and no one's going to go. But I don't think he's a good answer, because he's a teacher and should be in school. Understood. I will follow up with Chief Curtis. [Speaker 2] (2:07:10 - 2:07:54) You did mention that I have asked him to get some data on how we've enforced pedestrian safety. Typically we have received small grants, $10,000 to $20,000 worth of public safety grants to do some traffic enforcement. We're going to really make pedestrian safety part of our daily patrol, and really focus in on how this becomes a really important part of the data that we collect every day, and every week, and every month, and every trend. [Speaker 1] (2:07:55 - 2:07:57) Thank you. Thanks, Gino. Thanks, Chief. [Speaker 4] (2:07:57 - 2:07:58) Thanks, Allie. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (2:07:59 - 2:09:15) Thanks, Allie. We're going to now continue the conversation that we started a month plus ago on the fiscal year 22 water and sewer rates. Based on billing needs, it is likely this conversation will need to complete itself at our first meeting in August, which we'll talk about before we leave tonight. But tonight is really just to have Neil and the Water and Sewer Advisory folks and staff update us. We only got materials probably an hour before tonight's meeting, so I will tell you I haven't looked at a single thing. I know, Neil, you've been working hard to get meetings and whatnot. I'm just going to say this. We cannot be expected to have conversations of this importance and get something an hour before a meeting. We can't do it. I understand everyone's busy, but we're now sitting here, and I'm guessing no one besides Neil has looked at the information. Let's hear it. Let's have an exchange about it, but the whole point of having multiple nights is for us to be able to really drill a little deeper and ask for follow-up and ask questions and challenge assumptions and things of that nature. Let's see how far we can go tonight with that. I don't know who's leading. Neil, is it you? Are you the lead-in? Is it Patrick? [Speaker 3] (2:09:17 - 2:10:24) I'll hand it over to Patrick really quickly. I'll just, I think Pally, then Ralph is an attendee, so I don't know if we can promote him now. He's part of the water and sewer advisory advisory committee, and then I don't see Charlie Patios, but I'd like to invite him. I'm really sorry that you all didn't get anything until late today. I know that's frustrating. Hopefully, we can have a somewhat productive conversation, and I hope that it can lead to follow-up questions and comments and good productive progress so that we can vote on this probably at our next meeting. I'll let Patrick walk through the materials that you got, and then I think we can talk about it from there. Okay. Thanks, Neil. [Speaker 8] (2:10:24 - 2:16:03) So just to summarize, the water and sewer advisory committee was formed to research and identify some potential changes we can make to the rate structure in town, hopefully starting fiscal 22 with the concept, to have a positive impact on how we charge for these essential services across all of our accounts. So I've provided some materials to the board. I'll walk through those briefly, and I'll give some context as we go in terms of how we came about what's being presented to you tonight as an initial recommendation. Oh, Natalie, I can share my screen. Okay. So you all should be able to see this document now, I assume. Correct. All right. Okay. So up top, at the top of the sheet in the gray, this is our current rates. So we currently have a flat rate for consumption and a flat base rate that is charged to all users irrespective of use. So for domestic, the combined rate is $12.69, and if you're irrigation use, you're not charged a sewer rate for that. You pay strictly water, so that's $7.11. And for base rate, you do a combined water sewer for domestic use, $33.25. And for irrigation, you're looking at just the water base rate, $13.25. We do quarterly billings currently for domestic use, and we bill irrigation once a year, so that base rate is incurred once a year as well. In the yellow here, we have kind of what we're looking at with our current budget outlook as far as rates go for our combined rates for water sewer for irrigation. If we don't change the structure of our rates at all, so if we were to keep a flat consumption rate for all domestic use, not tier it, and we're going to keep up a flat base rate, just as a reminder, and we'll see this again later on a separate page, the sewer budget went up 16% this year, largely attributable to the Limb Water Sewer Commission O&M contract that was signed recently so that there was a significant jump in our assessment, and for water we had some increase in our MWRA assessment related to increased operating costs as well as slightly increased consumption. So this, to get our average single family home user down to a combined about a 5% increase next year, which is still higher than what we've seen in recent years, requires significant retained earnings. You can see up top that we'd be using $375,000 for water, $365,000 for sewer, so that's obviously not ideal. That's not what past experience has had, but with the significant jump in the budget this year, something needs to be done. So this is kind of just a status quo example and what it would take to keep our rates even at a palatable increase without changing the rate structure at all. Down here in the blue, this is what our advisory committee has come up with. So this is tiering consumption based on usage. So this 20.2800 cubic feet you see per consumption, this would be your tier one. So that is your typical average single family home used plus a 15% buffer and that keeps your consumption charges in that first tier and then anything above that would be a higher tier, a higher rate, a factor of 5% over what the rate would be if we did not tier. And then the irrigation is being charged at a premium, which is not something we currently do, but the committee's identified irrigation as discretionary water use and it's not uncommon to charge a premium for that. So that's being shown here and that helps offset the domestic water rate increases. And for base rate, we're proposing a modest increase. The fixed cost associated with both water and sewer did not increase substantially from last year. It was our assessment of consumption costs, so this is a modest increase to get us towards building a better base for our base rate revenue, but that's kind of where that came from. And this is requiring $46,000 of retained earnings from water, $105,000 retained earnings from sewer, which would leave us with a 22% balance compared to our budget as a reference. [Speaker 1] (2:16:04 - 2:17:00) Patrick, were you back solving to a percentage increase to know how much retained earnings you were using? The fact that the retained earnings are changing from scenario to scenario makes me believe you were trying to back into some maximum increase, but it's not obvious because with a much higher in the yellow, the 2, you end up with a 4.5 and I'm just going to speak consumption, just to simplify the example. In consumption, you're at 4.5, but on program number 3, which is the recommendation, we're significantly higher than that and we're using significantly less reserves. And so, I'm wondering that because to me, it's actually easier to look at it first without the reserves because we can't actually, it's very hard for us to see what the effect of these programmatic changes are if we're using different amounts of reserves because in our heads, we can't ascertain how much the reserves are reducing the percentage interest rates. [Speaker 8] (2:17:01 - 2:17:19) Yeah, so you want to see what the reserves are buying you. And I can tell you up here for situation number 2, if we were to keep the current rate structure and we weren't going to apply routine earnings at all, you'd be looking at a rate jump of about 17% to the average single family home. [Speaker 4] (2:17:20 - 2:17:21) Well, I think... [Speaker 1] (2:17:21 - 2:17:23) That's the figure you're looking for. [Speaker 4] (2:17:23 - 2:17:28) No, I don't... I didn't hear that as what you were asking, but is that what you were asking? [Speaker 1] (2:17:30 - 2:17:50) Well, I asked two things. So the first thing was, were you trying to back into a purposeful maximum increase by using retained earnings? And then I said, and answer that, that's awesome, but even so, the fact that we're using different returned earnings in different scenarios here makes it difficult to understand what the policy change naturally gets us to. [Speaker 4] (2:17:51 - 2:17:56) Okay, so I didn't understand his question. Thank you, Patrick, for answering. Wait, do you have the second one that he needs to answer? [Speaker 1] (2:17:56 - 2:17:59) Yes, he has to answer, were you using retained earnings to back into a goal? [Speaker 4] (2:18:00 - 2:18:01) Oh, that's what I thought I was going to use. [Speaker 1] (2:18:01 - 2:18:03) Yes, that's the second one. [Speaker 20] (2:18:03 - 2:18:04) This would be the goal. [Speaker 1] (2:18:06 - 2:18:08) What would be the goal? You've got to say it out loud, I'm sorry. [Speaker 8] (2:18:10 - 2:18:31) We're applying retained earnings to reduce consumption rate increase to get this figure down, to get the increase that's going to be passed on to users down based on consumption. So no matter how much retained earnings we're applying in any of these, it's not impacting base rate. It's adjusting down the consumption rate increase. [Speaker 4] (2:18:32 - 2:18:40) But it wasn't to a specific percentage that you were getting? This was to get it to about 5%. Is that right? [Speaker 20] (2:18:41 - 2:18:42) Yeah, no. [Speaker 1] (2:18:42 - 2:18:44) Yeah, I got you. [Speaker 3] (2:18:45 - 2:19:15) For the purple one, the recommendation, those retained earnings, we weren't backing in what we were using was from the financial guidelines what Hatchick was recommending as a comfortable level of retained earnings to try to stay above our 20% threshold, which as it says would be 22%. [Speaker 1] (2:19:15 - 2:19:32) So we'd be conservatively above those guidelines. Why wouldn't you have used that in number two, though? Right? I mean, if we're going to meet our guidelines, why wouldn't we have number two similarly said we've got to still meet our guidelines. We couldn't use the retained earnings in the amounts that are being shown in number two. [Speaker 8] (2:19:34 - 2:19:53) Yep, I could. I was just trying to demonstrate what level of retained earnings, if we are going to make a structural change to how we do the rates, it's going to take a significant amount of retained earnings to get our rate increase down. So I was just demonstrating that. But I can provide either way. [Speaker 4] (2:19:55 - 2:20:09) So that was one of my questions, even though I should know this, I don't. The guidelines, the ideal percentage range, because we kind of added this later, I remember, is 20% retained earnings for the enterprise? [Speaker 20] (2:20:09 - 2:20:10) That was correct. [Speaker 4] (2:20:10 - 2:20:23) Okay. And then why, if we're tiering the consumption rates and making irrigation higher, why are we not tiering base rates? [Speaker 3] (2:20:25 - 2:21:25) So we spent, I would say, 80 to 90% of our time talking about tiering the base rates. I think we need to do that. I don't think we're ready to do it this year, which is frustrating for me, but I don't think we're there yet and we're comfortable on the right way to tier them is the honest answer. But we should. That's my opinion and I think I'm speaking for the other people in the advisory committee when they feel that they feel similarly. It's challenging to figure out the right way to do that and I think we ran up against time on that. So that's why I see this as an iterative change in the rate structure and hope to revisit that. [Speaker 4] (2:21:26 - 2:22:18) Okay. No, I appreciate that. And then in the alternative scenario, why would we use such a significant percentage of sewer reserves compared to water to get a rate that's actually lower than it is without a change in structure? Or even, like, basically to where it is now or, like, it's just significantly lower than any other alternative. It seems like it goes beyond what needs to happen to make this like a fair tiered structure to just something really extreme at the expense of having a proper amount of balance in the retained earnings. And I guess I'm just wondering why that model shows that. [Speaker 1] (2:22:19 - 2:22:57) So, Patrick, I think I'm going to tell you what I think the answer is. The answer is we shouldn't be using returned earnings for this conversation right now. We should be looking at what the actual structural changes create for us and then apply retained earnings because it inadvertently corrupts our thought process when we see something that's artificially buying down the rate differently for each scenario. And so we need one thing to stop moving. So my suggestion would be retained earnings should just be, that's a second tier analysis. But we first have to understand what these structural changes get us to, just apples to apples. And right now the way this is, we can't do apples to apples. [Speaker 4] (2:22:59 - 2:23:40) Does that make sense? And I would just say on top of that, like, we need to follow the financial guidelines. So if they're 20%, I wouldn't feel comfortable going down. I know it's an alternative, but even to look at it as an alternative, to look at something that would drain it to 14% wouldn't be something that I would intuitively support. So I think keeping with those two variables, separating them so we can analyze them separately, but also using a retained earning amount that reflects our guidelines would be really helpful too. Aside from apparently the yellow, which is a one-off. [Speaker 2] (2:23:41 - 2:25:29) So when I looked at the recommendation from the committee, I did ask Patrick to really model the alternative with the application of additional retained earnings, because when we think about the guidelines, I really think about using the retained earnings to stabilize the rate. And we're experiencing some really unique things with our water and sewer rates, both with Linn Water and Sewer, really at their 20-year period where they're changing and going through their new contract, their additional costs. We're also seeing additional costs associated with that, and we're trying to stabilize the rate. So as we set the rate, we want to look at retained earnings specifically to help stabilize how the rate's going to fluctuate. Utility rates for water and sewer fluctuate greatly based on how much rain happens for a year. And so it's important for us to have that benchmark, but it's also important for us to recognize when is it appropriate for us to think critically about how to use retained earnings in ways to stabilize the impact to ratepayers or taxpayers. I do think it's important for us to kind of come back, and if we get to a point where retained earnings are dropping below our threshold, we have other tools that can help us bring those retained earnings back up, whether that's a transfer from free cash or other ways to kind of get back to that standard. But setting rates, I think, really requires us to really think, you know, what are the levers that we can pull? [Speaker 1] (2:25:30 - 2:26:51) And that's one of the responsibilities that the board has. That's great. I think we need to table retained earnings for a second because we don't, and I'm glad, I agree with what Polly said, right? Now, if we had enough confidence in future budgets, projections, to say, hey, if I'm looking at the budget projections for sewer here, we have a 16.12%, but on expense increase, right? But then you have a 1.64, a 2.4, a 2.5, a 2.35, a 2.32. If we had confidence in that and we had confidence that we'd be able to rebuild retained earnings because our future increases or the need for them would be lower because our future increases seem so low, then maybe we could stretch now to use a little bit more. I'm telling you where I sit today, I don't have confidence in those numbers, so I wouldn't make that decision today because we don't even have a contract. As a matter of fact, we haven't talked about a contract in six months here, right? And so none of us know exactly where the numbers are coming from because we haven't talked for a long time about a contract which is a huge contract, right? And so I suggest we table retained earnings and let us get a little bit more knowledgeable about tiering consumption and base rates and why the recommendation is where it is. I think the answer is this is going to be painful no matter what. And so we're choosing where the pain is going to be. [Speaker 4] (2:26:52 - 2:27:38) I also just want to clarify, I'm not suggesting we don't use retained earnings. We are using retained earnings to buy down the cost to the consumer, but we can't do that to the detriment of the entire point of retained earnings. And as Peter points out, the history of this isn't giving us any reassurance to say that once we get it down year after year, because we are building a model, that's something that we want to stabilize over time. So I wouldn't want to use something that's already risky based on past to build a new model going forward. So I just wouldn't want to go down that far. But I'm one person and not a finance, I mean I'm not director of finance. [Speaker 2] (2:27:38 - 2:28:34) I think one thing to keep in mind is that, you know, we did apply for a grant to help us look at the life cycle cost of all of the water and wastewater infrastructure for the town. We haven't really studied the extent of what that base foundation is for Swampstead. So to Peter's point about being unsure of what those costs are going to be over the short term, or perhaps even that, you know, 10, 20, 30 year horizon, once we get that study complete, we'll have a better empirical standard for how we can really set that base rate and really feel a little bit more comfortable that we have a debt service strategy that we can build a tiered rate system for. [Speaker 1] (2:28:37 - 2:29:22) So Neil, let me just ask we're not going to get very far right, just because there's so much to do, right? So my let's maybe speak more to the policy decision and the recommendation and then Ralph, I know that you're here with us as well, so I want to invite you to chime in and kind of share your perspective on things, just to leave us with some things as to kind of the accelerated version, the cliff notes version of your 80% on things, you know, like help us understand kind of how you got to your thought process as we look at this. We're clearly going to have to have another conversation before we're voting on this. And we'll have to figure out logistically what that means. [Speaker 3] (2:29:26 - 2:33:32) Yeah, I'll let Ralph chime in too, but so the policy, the decision to not tier the base rates just happened a couple days ago, and as I mentioned so for some time we were thinking of doing it based on meter size, but the more we looked into it, we didn't know if that was a fair way to tier the rates. For instance, there are a handful of single family homes that have two inch meters. Two inch meters would have been if you went by meter size, you know, in a higher tier. So you're potentially you're potentially charging a base rate of like eight times what a normal single family is using. So that wouldn't be fair to some accounts. Ralph suggested a good solution which is based on equivalent residential units. So we started to go down that path with potentially for the larger meters you would be charging for instance, if there are 200 units, let's say there are 300 units, it would be two-thirds. Every unit is counted as two-thirds essentially, so you know, it wouldn't be a multiplier of 300 on the base rate, it would be a multiplier of 200 and that seemed reasonable based on what we saw for consumption on some of these larger accounts, but then it just sort of opens up we're doing it for some and not for others like two and three family residences. So there's a fairness issue there. We just didn't feel like we had the time, expertise, bandwidth, capacity to vet that where we were confident in how we were going to tier them, but I will say that the reason it was such a focus is because when you do look at the base rate, you know, right now we pay, you know, so if you look at the base rate now, $33.50 per quarter for a single family, that's the same base rate that all large accounts use. So if there's 260 residents or 150 residents on an account, then they're paying about $0.20 a quarter per unit. So essentially they're not paying a base rate as individuals and so we really want to address that, but we just didn't feel comfortable and confident in a way to do it given the time. So the consumption tiers, the 15% buffer is to allow for some of that fluctuation in use, so you may have a single family home that, you know, an account that uses average or less, but they may use more in certain quarters, and so that sort of buffers that part of it, but it also allows you to charge more on that second tier. We talked about having three tiers or four tiers, but when you start to get into more tiers, you're really getting into accounts that don't have the ability to reduce use, you know, because really all our large accounts are multi-family condominiums and apartments, so there's not really a way for them to get into the lower tiers, so that was why we decided to go with the two-tier system. [Speaker 1] (2:33:33 - 2:34:24) Do you know based on your initial inquiry in the base system based on product type, not meter size, like how substantial impact it would have, meaning how much pressure does it take off on the consumption, I mean like how big of a delta is it, the base rate? Like how much does it, in models that you've looked at, in the reasonable range, the bell curve of things that you've looked at, like how much does it matter? How much does the split base rate generate, such that it takes pressure off of either retained earnings or the consumption side? It may not be a fair question without spreadsheets. [Speaker 3] (2:34:24 - 2:35:26) Yeah, it's hard for me to answer that. It's not insignificant though, I mean, even with, you know, we don't have a lot of large accounts, but a fair, you know, you're talking about with some of these, a fair multiplier in my view would be, could be as much as like a hundred times the base rate, you know, for some of these. And you're still, the individual units are still getting a deal relative to what I'll call single family account, so it can make a difference, and it also, where it also helps is that you are, you're having more revenue stability and reliability because it's just fixed costs are a larger percentage of your revenue, so it really helps us there as well. There's not as much of a guessing game. [Speaker 1] (2:35:27 - 2:35:43) So is there a metric though? No, is there a metric between, do communities use base rate and try and tie it to fixed costs as some percentage, some ratio? Have you guys seen that as a theory as to how to size base costs, or base rate, excuse me? [Speaker 3] (2:35:45 - 2:36:29) I mean, I saw it with with Melrose, I think it was Melrose, where I think, but I think that the way that they define their fixed costs is different than us, because they were talking about, I think if I remember correctly, like 10% of their fixed costs, which we're well above that already, so, but they do think about it that way. I think that what you're trying to strike the balance of that with also not wanting to burden people with fixed costs who don't use a lot. You know? [Speaker 4] (2:36:29 - 2:36:52) Yeah. Just to, same question as Peter, but with, I was going with the, what a fair base rate split would be without just like making it too imbalanced, if there's any communities that you've looked at to help with that analysis. [Speaker 3] (2:36:53 - 2:38:14) Yeah, I mean, like I said, from what I've seen, I mean, some do it just where it's like a two-tiered system where it's like you either pay the base rate or you pay 10 times if you're in a larger meter category. The ones that I thought were good examples that we were stuck on for quite a while but didn't dig into, honestly, for at least a month or so was the idea that you do it based on the meter size and the flow capacity and the ratio of the flow capacity of the meter, because that's sort of a bit more of an objective way to measure how much water, how much it's using, essentially, and what impact it has on the system, but what we discovered and Ralph did a lot of this work too, is that some of the larger meter accounts actually didn't use that much. And so that's when we started thinking about like residential unit equivalents and thinking about it that way. And to do that we just felt like we didn't have the time to figure out exactly what that would be. [Speaker 1] (2:38:17 - 2:38:51) So my concern is a two-step, right? And I'm sure it's yours as well. We do something this year, then we do something next year, and that we rely this year on a move that next year, we're not necessarily undoing the move, but if we had done both moves at the same time, we might not have done as big a move this year on consumption, for example. Right? And it's just so many moving parts, it's less predictability, it's less... But I totally get where, so I say this without judgment, it's more... [Speaker 3] (2:38:51 - 2:39:58) Yeah, no, I mean that's absolutely... I did not want to present this without a tiered base rate, and so it was... But I think that I think this is a better choice than to have a tiered base rate that we then need to change. You know what I mean? So I'd rather... I'm confident in the tiered consumption structure, and I don't want to tier our base rates, let's just say, based on meter size, and make that recommendation, and then decide maybe we want to change it, because I don't think that's good policy either. The other recommendation from the advisory committee is that the advisory committee... The advisory committee's work doesn't stop when we set the rates, because clearly there's work that needs to get done, and continues meeting and working on this. [Speaker 4] (2:40:00 - 2:40:41) So I guess just because I have no idea, and I'm sorry if others do, but what do you... How much time would you need to commit to get the answers, or what resources would you need? I'm just trying to figure out if it's something that if we just really focused on, if it's something we could do without the two-step, or if there's just so much, in your opinion, that even with additional focus and consultant or whatever it would be that you'd suggest, this isn't going to happen in a one-step process. I think that was a question. I don't know if you can answer it. [Speaker 3] (2:40:42 - 2:41:22) I think we need either an outside consultant, or outside help, or more direct communication with other communities or experts in the field, because nobody on the advisory committee is an expert. We've done a lot of work on it, but I think that we need more expert advice on how to do it, and I don't know if we can get that in this short time frame. So... [Speaker 1] (2:41:24 - 2:41:38) Hey, Neil, I want to hear from Ralph as well. Can you just tell me, how did you come to 20.2800 cubic feet for your breakpoint on the consumption side? What does that mean to me? [Speaker 3] (2:41:39 - 2:41:45) That's 15% above the average single-family home, based on the last three years. [Speaker 1] (2:41:45 - 2:41:56) Right, gotcha. Ralph, are you with us? Do you want to share some thoughts? [Speaker 18] (2:42:06 - 2:42:06) Can you hear me? [Speaker 1] (2:42:07 - 2:42:08) We can, how are you? [Speaker 18] (2:42:08 - 2:43:15) Just fine, just fine. Yeah, we did a lot of discussion, like Neil said, on the base rate using flow metering methods, and as he pointed out, the meter size doesn't necessarily indicate how much flow is ultimately going through the meter. So, an equivalent residential unit approach can be a much fairer approach throughout the town, but the dilemma is that there's a lot of different types of users, not just large condominiums or apartments and so forth. There's three families and two families, and there are restaurants and grocery stores and that sort of thing, all need to be considered in an equivalent residential method, because some of those users are large also. They're larger than some of the apartment building condos. So it's a more complex approach, and it's difficult to make it fair without closely looking at the data or getting advice from others. [Speaker 1] (2:43:17 - 2:43:37) Did you, Neil and Ralph, did you guys see a situation where flow was the thing that triggered a different base rate? So it wasn't number of units, it wasn't size of project, it wasn't meter size, it was actual flow. Based on the last three years. [Speaker 3] (2:43:38 - 2:43:42) You mean like a base rate that's based on consumption? [Speaker 1] (2:43:42 - 2:45:00) Look, kind of, right? At some point, your consumption is going up, but also your base is going up, because you are, I mean, that it occurs to me that as much as it seems strange to base, you're not basing the base rate on consumption, you're basing the tiering of the base rate on consumption. Meaning that's the equitable way of getting the overuser or the higher user into a higher base rate. It addresses the single family home with the bigger meter. It addresses the larger buildings with smaller consumption. It just seems like that might actually be the way to get equity. Now I understand, but they're getting but if we, Gino is saying we're hitting them twice if we do it that way, but I think the base rate, if we tier the base rate and have a tier consumption anyways, we're going to hit them twice because most likely the people that are above the 15% are probably most likely going to be the people that are in the higher base, is my guess. They're higher users to begin with. So you're right, Gino. I'm just saying I think we would have captured them anyways. Alright, well your silence answers my question brilliantly because I think what you're saying is whatever, Peter, humor yourself. [Speaker 3] (2:45:01 - 2:46:35) No, I mean it's a good question. I think, Gino, that's the what you're trying to so I think we're trying to figure out a way to tier the base rates in one way that we at least I thought about it a lot and we were trying to get to, but again I just don't feel like we got to the analysis we needed to on it was you don't the way you tier the base rate in my view doesn't have to be perfect as long as you can sort of make up for it with the consumption rate and I don't know I'm not confident enough and I'm not expert enough to be able to do that analysis where for example if you have if you tiered it by meter size and it's a you know it's a 250 unit building but really the base rate is only going to be multiplied by like 140 because of the meter size but the consumption rate tiering can sort of make up for that where that account is paying its fair share if you will but you have to look at you have to sort of dig into all the accounts to make sure that sort of washes out that way I don't know if I'm making any sense but I thought about that a lot I just again we didn't get there with the analysis [Speaker 4] (2:46:38 - 2:47:07) I just I think you I like this analysis a lot which might say something about me but I think you guys have done an amazing job and I appreciate Neil how much time and effort you've clearly put into this and Ralph and everybody else who's and Patrick and everybody honestly it's interesting and it's exciting I'm sure it's really frustrating too but I appreciate all the work [Speaker 1] (2:47:09 - 2:47:19) so can we talk about how we're going to figure this out so personally I don't see us sitting at another meeting talking for 20 minutes and taking a vote [Speaker 4] (2:47:20 - 2:47:21) no I know [Speaker 1] (2:47:21 - 2:47:28) not even close so Patrick what's our drop dead date on when we need to set water and sewer rates [Speaker 8] (2:47:31 - 2:47:56) in my conversations with the GW business manager if we're going to tier based on consumption we can turn it around pretty quickly she was looking to do the bill runs mid August so if we had it a week in advance I think we could plug the rates in I will just mention [Speaker 20] (2:47:56 - 2:47:57) too [Speaker 8] (2:47:59 - 2:48:36) implementation wise tiering the base rate required a lot of manual input on our current software version we're operating in October so that's another reason why we kind of put that off for additional analysis because it's going to be easier to implement if you do something like that down the line so to answer your question and Gino can correct me if he feels different but I think a week before if we're going to send the bills out middle of August which was the plan we needed by the 9th [Speaker 6] (2:48:37 - 2:48:40) it's not going to happen I can't see it happen right [Speaker 1] (2:48:40 - 2:48:48) so you're saying if we're sending out the bills on the 15th when do we have to send out water bills and sewer bills [Speaker 6] (2:48:48 - 2:48:53) on the 15th that's quarterly we read August, November, February, May. [Speaker 1] (2:48:54 - 2:48:56) Right. When do we need to send out the water bills? [Speaker 6] (2:48:57 - 2:48:57) October, August. [Speaker 1] (2:48:57 - 2:49:04) I know when the read is great but is there something that requires us to send the bills out at a certain period of time? [Speaker 6] (2:49:05 - 2:49:12) Well if we extend it one way or another we're going to get all sorts of phone calls because it's going to break up that quarterly billing. [Speaker 1] (2:49:12 - 2:49:20) No no you're reading on a set date I'm saying when do we physically send the bill out? The bill will only be through August 15th. [Speaker 6] (2:49:21 - 2:49:26) The bill is actually through August 1st because we read on August 1st and then it takes us two weeks to set the bills out. [Speaker 1] (2:49:26 - 2:49:53) Great. So can it take you four weeks to send the bills out? I'm trying to understand can we still do our readings August 1st understanding that we should be two weeks late sending out the bills because we don't have the rate set. So is there anything that's statutorily otherwise Patrick paying bills or whatever what problems does that present if we don't set the rate until the end of August? If we don't set the rate [Speaker 20] (2:49:53 - 2:49:54) until the end of August it's going to delay [Speaker 1] (2:49:54 - 2:49:57) when the bills go out so that'll [Speaker 8] (2:50:00 - 2:50:33) I think we'll be okay cash flow wise because the water and sewer funds from an operations standpoint those are cool but general fund and real estate bills are due August 2nd so I don't have any cash flow concerns if we're only going a week or two out from normal confusion amongst the consumer we'd have to communicate that if we're going to change the typical selling date Statutorily I'm not aware of anything we should be able to make an adjustment [Speaker 1] (2:50:34 - 2:52:06) the brief date is the same Let's switch to meeting dates because we've just got to do it now because just what it is so help me understand so August technically the 4th of August would be our meeting you told me some reason we can't use this room it's because school committee is doing a meeting that night it's fine it's okay but we can still meet but we can meet another night so my question is are people fine meeting August 3rd which is a Tuesday not a Wednesday yes my gut is we're going to do a two item agenda we're going to do warrant discussion and just because we have to just start looking at language and this I'm saying that without thinking and then Ali sometime later in August appointments will come up we just can't and none of us have the tolerance to do a four hour meeting so I'm working on finishing this no we're finishing we're at 3 hours and frankly if you had just a little earlier we would have be at 3 hours but you guys were gabbing so how do we feel about the 2nd sorry the 3rd August the 3rd [Speaker 12] (2:52:06 - 2:52:08) I got a lot to say [Speaker 4] (2:52:11 - 2:52:12) that's fine [Speaker 5] (2:52:12 - 2:52:13) yep [Speaker 1] (2:52:14 - 2:52:21) yeah that's fine are you going to be back from Canada now [Speaker 3] (2:52:21 - 2:52:24) by the way I'm trying to pipe water in from Saskatchewan [Speaker 1] (2:52:24 - 2:52:31) based on what you told us tonight it makes sense why you're remote tonight by the way [Speaker 20] (2:52:31 - 2:52:34) I would have been remote too [Speaker 1] (2:52:37 - 2:52:49) I think it's just water and sewer and special time meeting warrant I think I will confirm that but I just think it's going to be a simple because we're going to have to spend the majority of time on this [Speaker 4] (2:52:49 - 2:52:51) so we're taking off the 4th [Speaker 1] (2:52:51 - 2:52:54) yes just because it allows us to be here [Speaker 4] (2:52:54 - 2:53:06) assuming the school committee hasn't been here ok that's fine [Speaker 1] (2:53:06 - 2:54:26) so let's just hold that as the date ok I'm going to skip over on the agenda here the last item the second to last item number 6 on our agenda we'll just take that up on the 2nd about the new school and the warrant on the 3rd exactly the 3rd I just wanted to make sure you were listening no you're going to take it up on the 2nd we'll take it up on the 3rd great alright Ralph thanks for being here tonight Patrick thanks for being here I think not I think I would ask board members to spend more time with this have if it's helpful have conversations with Patrick if you want something more done if you just do me a favor and loop Sean and me into that so that we can just make sure that Patrick's not getting 5 people with close requests and say what we can do is we can group them all together and that way Patrick is as efficient with his time as possible and just additional analysis Patrick you should assume that we're going to want to look this devoid of retained earnings in the first sense and then we'll layer on the retained earnings just because we're going to want to see the impact of just the split excuse me the post splits Neil does that all work for you and make sense [Speaker 3] (2:54:26 - 2:54:33) yeah I mean I'm happy to have offline conversations with anyone [Speaker 1] (2:54:34 - 2:54:46) yeah I want to be careful about that just because on the board side I don't want it to be deliberation so that's why I said Patrick not to exclude you but just to be careful of that yeah [Speaker 20] (2:54:50 - 2:54:50) okay [Speaker 1] (2:54:51 - 2:55:00) if there's no objection then thanks again Ralph for being here tonight and for everything you've done on the committee I think we're going to move on to town administrators [Speaker 6] (2:55:00 - 2:55:02) probably should thank Charlie Patsios as well [Speaker 1] (2:55:02 - 2:55:06) and Charlie's not here but Charlie Patsios thank you very much for your time as well [Speaker 6] (2:55:08 - 2:55:09) thank you [Speaker 2] (2:55:09 - 2:58:54) Patrick thank you Neil so we still are really dealing with a pandemic and I spoke with Nia Illingworth and Jeff Vaughn this week and we do have some troubling news around the country that we're seeing a rise in hospitalizations with the Delta variant of COVID-19 to this end you know we are going to be setting up a tabletop exercise with the school district to really look at some scenarios to plan for the fall we are seeing a significant increase after the 4th of July and so it's just something that we have to be mindful about I know that folks are tired of some of these pandemic responsibilities but you know this is about life safety so we have to keep that focus I am excited that our new HR director is off and running Tanya has been busy she has physically been stopping in at our police station fire station and I'd like to invite her to a select board meeting in the near future and introduce the board members to her she is the former town of Middleton HR director and assistant town administrator so she brings a wealth of experience and I'm really excited to welcome her on board our senior center is busy we have a lot of programs happening and a lot of activities really want to encourage folks to pop down and really start getting back involved we do have a lot of lunches and programs happening community development department is busy with a number of grant opportunities that we're working on this summer the fire department has kicked off a fire safety skill program we have 10 students enrolled in the plan if you drive by the fire department you'll see a couple of wooden cutout structures that were created by a firefighter Michael Salsgiver in front of the station really is a great program we're looking at maybe getting the police department involved in maybe a CSI program for our young citizens perhaps maybe even a few of our older ones at some point we have been monitoring the water quality in Swampskit unfortunately given the rain we do have some concerns about bacteria given the forecast today and in the next couple of days I'm not sure that these beaches will be open I did reach out to our director of health he is looking into getting the same flags as the department of conservation and recreation have on the Lynn DCR beach so that we can actually have public awareness related to the safety of the water lastly we are planning a party for Saturday July 31 from 4 to 9pm in partnership with Bent Water Brewing so this will be a follow up to the party that we had two years ago and there will be a lot of music and some terrific events down at our historic fish house so I want to have people mark their calendars and really plan for a nice event in Swampskit [Speaker 1] (2:58:55 - 2:58:58) that's my report questions or comments for Sean? [Speaker 15] (2:58:58 - 2:59:12) Sean about water quality can you remind the five of us as well as the public as to how the testing happens when it occurs and how often it occurs [Speaker 2] (2:59:12 - 3:00:18) after rain events our public health director goes down and takes a sample of the beach water similar to what DCR does down at Kings Beach and Lynn and we send that out through a lab typically takes 24 hours to get a turnaround on the bacteria in case if it's positive we have to look for a mean test for five days to ensure that there's no threat to public health a lot of folks that might have public health issues with bacteria could really be susceptible so we have to be certain that there's no bacteria there before we can actually safely open up the beach to swimming it's a rigorous responsibility but certainly we have a lab that really ensures that we can open those beaches to swimming [Speaker 15] (3:00:18 - 3:00:20) so is this happening daily or weekly? [Speaker 2] (3:00:21 - 3:00:34) it happens daily and we test it everyday to really get clarity we need a number of days of clean tests to ensure that we have a standard of safety [Speaker 1] (3:00:34 - 3:00:39) so when you say it's daily though it's not daily it's daily following a bad test [Speaker 20] (3:00:39 - 3:00:40) to be able to get [Speaker 1] (3:00:41 - 3:00:47) right, got it so if you have good weather you're not testing daily got it, understood it's weekly otherwise [Speaker 4] (3:00:49 - 3:00:51) great that's helpful [Speaker 12] (3:00:55 - 3:01:03) select board time I was going to discuss the writings of Camus and Jean-Paul Sartre but in the interest of the late hour I'm pretty confident that's going to be short with you I'll defer [Speaker 1] (3:01:03 - 3:01:05) I'll defer [Speaker 4] (3:01:06 - 3:01:07) indulge us [Speaker 1] (3:01:07 - 3:01:13) tell us everything you know about it all I can say is life is absurd I'm fine with that [Speaker 15] (3:01:13 - 3:01:14) life is absurd [Speaker 12] (3:01:16 - 3:01:17) existentialism rules that's all [Speaker 15] (3:01:17 - 3:01:26) just one comment to Sean you're supposed to talk about COVID and dirty water and I'm supposed to talk about bent water day at the beach but next time oh sorry [Speaker 1] (3:01:28 - 3:01:38) next time, thank you good? yes, thanks thanks everyone for helping making this happen Neil, sorry, Neil live from Canada [Speaker 20] (3:01:39 - 3:01:40) good, thank you [Speaker 1] (3:01:40 - 3:02:05) hey all right fair enough, all right, thanks to everyone for helping put this together and for those that participated tonight thanks to the Housing Authority, we look forward to seeing positive reaction and response and can't wait for them to be bothering us to help them with many initiatives in the coming months with that, we are going to meet again on August [Speaker 20] (3:02:06 - 3:02:06) 3rd [Speaker 1] (3:02:06 - 3:02:20) there we go, 3rd, nice job, that was good at 6pm here, is there a motion to adjourn? so moved second all those in favor aye good night everyone, thank you