[Speaker 2] (0:01 - 2:32)
All set Joe? All right, welcome. Welcome to the May 4th 2022 Select Board meeting.

May the 4th be with you. And the first meeting of our new members Mary Ellen Fletcher and Katie Phelan, welcome. Joined on a packed agenda of course.

I will be acting as chair in my role as vice chair until after our annual town meeting and then since Polly Tickum stepped down who was our chair and then after our annual town meeting on May 16th we will vote in new officers of the Select Board. To start the meeting we would like to invite, we have a number of students as well as a number of public safety officers in the room so we'd like to invite them to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, so everyone knows our agenda is pretty full tonight. We have a liquor license hearing as well as a public hearing for earth removal permit for the new school and as well as a discussion of a 40B proposal. There will be public comment opportunities for all of those items so we're not going to take general public comment right now.

We have some other more exciting business to attend to. The first one is to announce this year's beach pass. I think am I handing over to Sean or Peter?

[Speaker 1] (2:32 - 2:37)
You're handing it over to me, I think. And I think there's a PowerPoint. One of you have.

[Speaker 7] (2:38 - 2:38)
Diane, do you have that?

[Speaker 12] (2:38 - 2:43)
I have it, but I don't know what to do with it. Okay. Sorry.

[Speaker 1] (2:45 - 2:46)
Whose laptop is controlling the screen?

[Speaker 7] (2:47 - 2:53)
Neither. That's just being used by the smart phone. Can you email it to Joe?

[Speaker 32] (2:54 - 2:56)
I have a PowerPoint. Can I email it to you?

[Speaker 1] (2:58 - 7:41)
All right, so while the PowerPoint is going on, most people didn't know that they were actually coming for two reasons tonight. But one is each year we, in the last four years, we've been lucky enough to have an artist volunteer their talents to help make about 2,500 cars and swamps just a little prettier with the beach sticker. And in a second we'll show you the history of them.

But tonight is the night that we get to share the 2022 sticker. Each year it's been a visual arts teacher in the Swampscot Public Schools who has shown and shared their talents. And tonight, Ryan Townsend from the high school is with us.

Ryan, come on down. And Ryan, I think probably dislocated his shoulder how quickly he raised his hand when the request went to ask for someone that was willing to share their talents with the town. And Ryan reached out and Ryan and I got to know each other.

And he was pretty remarkable because he didn't need much. He said, OK, I'd like to do it. I don't even know if he saw the prior year's stickers or not.

And I said, it's Swampscot, so take it from there. And literally, without ever seeing it, it shows up one day, the day we needed to have it go out and get printed. And it is just beautiful.

And you're going to hear a little bit about what his inspiration was for it. I promised him that he didn't have to say a lot. So I'm filibustering as the presentation gets loaded.

No problem, Joe. But it's become an important part of the community. I told the story four years ago when, as I used to commute every day into Boston, you go down the Linway and there's probably many a person in this room that does that still, you'd be able to recognize Swampscot cars by the beach sticker.

And that old blue or whatever color badge on the cars wasn't exactly the type of feeling that elicited, didn't elicit the type of feeling that I felt about Swampscot. And so the idea was, why not try and bring something that literally is on 25 to 300, sorry, 3,000 vehicles each year so that now when you drive down the Linway, it's my example, you see cars with a lot of color and a lot of stickers. So Joe, you're controlling this, right?

All right. So you mind just going to the next slide? So there she is.

She was beautiful. And every year we maybe chose a different color. It was really great.

And so that was the inspiration for change. Our very first year, go ahead, Joe. Our very first year, Lisa Harris, who's the middle school visual arts teacher, raised her hand and offered to do it and really wanted to focus on the fish house and kind of her perception of the fish house and what it meant to Swampscot.

And so that was our very first non-official badge-looking beach sticker. The next year, Joe, go ahead. The next year, Taylor Byrne, who at the time was a high school visual arts teacher who actually did a lot with ceramics, created this sticker for Swampscot, which is actually cuts and pieces of magazines to create this visual.

And she, just like Ryan, just took the initiative and had an idea in her mind. And from the moment I said, are you good? She's like, I've got it.

And then last year, Rachel Eisenberg, who's a visual arts teacher at the Hadley School and I think Clark School at times as well, created this sticker. And she, if I remember correctly, the only question she asked me is, how do you feel about bold colors, which we love. So that was Rachel's for 2022.

And so, go ahead, Joe. And so this year, as I said, Ryan Townsend was nice enough to step up and offer his talents with the town. And so with no further delay, Joe, you can flip the next slide and see the 2022 beach.

So besides our never-ending thanks, as you go down the Linway or anywhere else, I said there's about 3,000 stickers. Only one of them has the number 0001 on it. And that one goes to Ryan.

Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (7:48 - 7:55)
I am just going to say thank you very much for the opportunity to create a piece of public art. And I hope you all enjoy it. So thank you.

[Speaker 2] (8:07 - 8:24)
All right, great. Thank you, Peter. And thank you, Ryan.

Very exciting. Our next item on the agenda is swearing in of two of our newest firefighters, which I think is why most people are here right now. So I think I'm handing it over to you, Sean.

[Speaker 7] (8:24 - 9:43)
This is really one of my favorite times. When we think about our public service and what we do in government, nothing's more important than the work that our police officers and firefighters do to respond to emergencies and to help people during times of crisis. Swampskat is an extraordinary community.

And today we welcome two new members into this community. We've gone through a significant process for recruitment, and we've worked carefully over the last few years to transition Swampskat from a civil service system to a non-civil service system. And we were fortunate to go out and really touch a number of communities and groups and really recruit for excellence and diversity and inclusion.

And tonight we are here to present two extraordinary individuals. I'm going to ask Chief Archer to come down and introduce these individuals and share a few remarks. Thank you, Administrator Fitzgerald.

[Speaker 29] (9:45 - 12:53)
This is also one of my very favorite things to do in my role as fire chief. It's been a long road moving to where we are having our own hiring process and bringing on board people after we really get a great chance to get to know them. And we did an extensive recruitment and outreach program, and we settled on two outstanding candidates for these next two jobs that we're ready to fill tonight.

And as much as this is a new era for us in hiring, it also represents a continuation of a tradition of excellence and hiring the best people that we can find to fill these really vital jobs. And we're very confident that we've done that again tonight. We've got two just outstanding candidates that we couldn't be more happy to welcome to the Fawcett Fire Department family.

So I'd like to ask Dennis Berry and Brittany Carpenter to come down. I, state your name. Do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and will support the Constitution thereof.

I, state your name. Do solemnly swear that I will obey the lawful orders of my superior officers. I, state your name.

Do solemnly swear and affirm that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all duties incumbent on me as a Swamp Squad firefighter to which I have been appointed according to the best of my abilities and understanding agreeably to the requirements of the Constitution, the laws of the Commonwealth, and the rules and regulations as established in accordance with the Charter and bylaws of the Town of Swamp Squad. Congratulations. Dennis and Brittany have asked, Dennis has asked his mom Patricia and Brittany, her mom Diana to come and pin their badges.

[Speaker 8] (14:13 - 14:26)
I'd like to thank everybody that came out to support me today. I'm just looking forward to working hard and learning from the guys and being a good member of this community. Thank you.

[Speaker 29] (14:32 - 14:43)
I just want to thank everybody as well for coming out today and to let everybody know here that I'm honored to be appointed to this position. And I can't wait to learn from my group, my whole department, and thank you.

[Speaker 2] (14:53 - 15:03)
Congratulations to you both. Thanks, everyone, for coming out. We're going to take probably a five minute.

Does anyone on the board have anything else, anything to say?

[Speaker 8] (15:05 - 15:08)
Yes, I do. Congratulations. Great job.

[Speaker 1] (15:10 - 15:15)
I would. Brittany, before you walk out of the room. Brittany, before you walk out of the room.

[Speaker 32] (15:15 - 15:18)
Come back in here. We're still on the clock.

[Speaker 1] (15:21 - 17:40)
We're not done with you yet, Brittany. Oh, wait, there's more. Oh, wait, there's more, Brittany.

I just want to, and Dennis, come back in. This is really a really important night for Swamp Squad, not to mention you, but it's also for our community, because you are the byproduct of a robust and exhaustive process that Swamp Squad can now go through to make sure that we find and are assured through our own selection process, through the professional selection process with the chiefs and the departments to find the best and brightest to be here. And you are them.

There were just under 100 applicants took the test this time around. And that needs to be said again. Just under 100 applicants took the test for positions in our town, and that was the result of the chief and the department doing a robust recruitment and getting the word out and doing everything they could to find applicants that would excite the department, that would support the department, make the department better, and you are the end product of that process, and that really is a credit to you both, and I hope that you feel really good about it. Dennis, I don't know you, so bear with me for a second.

Brittany, I know you because I have a daughter who smiles when she says your name more than she smiles when she says virtually anybody else's name. I think that's why there's so many people sitting in this room tonight, staff, colleagues, students. You have, in a relatively short amount of time here in Swampscott High School, made inroads in relationships that most people would take a lifetime to do, and you've built bonds, and I don't think there's a child, a kid, an adult in here that probably wouldn't lay themselves on the road for you because of who you are and what you're willing to give to them.

I know that's true of my daughter. And so the fact that you're now going to go to a next adventure, but that adventure's in Swampscott, and you're already such an established, established part of our community just makes it even more exciting. So thank you for everything that you've done for Swampscott, and can't wait to see what more you guys do.

Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (17:40 - 20:53)
Everyone else? Okay. All right, so we will take a break, five or ten-minute break, and then we'll get back with our regular business.

How exciting, huh? you you

[Speaker 4] (21:00 - 24:26)
you you you you you

[Speaker 2] (24:46 - 26:53)
all right thanks everyone so we're going to get right to it with our our regular business like I said we're not we're not going to do general public comments but we need to our first order of business is to open a public hearing on a liquor license for Pomona of 128 Humphrey Street so drive a motion to open that hearing so move okay all in favor aye aye all right so I don't know if there are any there's anyone in attendance or okay so can we promote them okay so Oscar Guerrero and Abraham Gallego are both with us I hope there's Oscar welcome Oscar evening everyone good evening thanks for thanks for coming back and do you want to tell us a little bit about your your business and the hours of operation and the liquor license that you are asking for

[Speaker 23] (26:53 - 28:21)
asking for from us tonight thank you good evening everyone so our business is going to be located on the Humphrey Street 128 Humphrey Street Old Surf Shop east to me so it's a new concept for antique table restaurants with the name of Pomona we're going to be serving breakfast Monday through Sunday 8 in the morning to 9 9 p.m. and we are looking for the liquor license with the beer malt and four jewels in that 128 Humphrey Street and I know there's some questions about the Scorpion approximately 200 feet from our door so we were willing to have some barriers outside for the we're asking for the to also have the liquor license extended to the front sidewalk there right in front of our door and I know there was some issues in the last meeting so we're sort of thinking outside how we promote the safety and everyone will say we are responsible and we're going to be managing the liquor license but the responsibility okay so you're

[Speaker 2] (28:21 - 28:34)
you're saying that you're willing to have some some sort of screening or something on the outside on the side of the cafe where you're sort of abutting in the park there if you were to have seating out there is that what you're

[Speaker 23] (28:38 - 29:11)
we're looking to keep the student and safe and if that's going to if that barrier or screening will ensure that students are not looking into anyone drinking we can we are we're happy to work with the town of Swampskat to make sure that you understand that we are going to be responsible with the license and keeping the school safe at all time okay do I have any any questions from

[Speaker 4] (29:11 - 29:49)
the board I don't I don't have any questions just just comments so I mean I'm I'm fully in support of the the beer wine and and cordials license I think if we want our small businesses in Swampskat to not only survive but thrive I think we have to give them every opportunity you know to to monetize and and to really grow and find their their place within the community so I'm fully in support I think we need to I think we need to be to be better at at supporting our local businesses and streamline these processes so full

[Speaker 2] (29:49 - 29:55)
support for me okay thanks David anyone anyone else

[Speaker 8] (29:56 - 30:11)
I have one quick question is uh is the seating just directly in front of the building or seating go all the way around it we have the option to use on

[Speaker 23] (30:11 - 30:49)
the side but I think that would make it close both this to the school so we're hoping for the front so next maximum two to three tables and it's only gonna be seasonal and this is also until the town of Swampskat is able to remove the patio extension so after that we were kept up by for a regular normal outside dining next season yep mr.

[Speaker 1] (30:49 - 31:09)
grower you just remind say again you froze when you were speaking just let's make sure we have the hours correct I think we heard 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. seven days a week is that correct yes that is that is correct great thanks so once once we know there's no other public testimony

[Speaker 2] (31:09 - 31:37)
I'm happy to make a motion okay are there any public comments either on zoom or in attendance here or if people are watching and want to email public comment to me at and Duffy at Swampscott ma.gov they can let me just ask one

[Speaker 1] (31:37 - 32:14)
question mr. Guerrero because that's gonna help shape the motion so so last time we were together I was the one that raised the outdoor questions with you so I just want to confirm I think the I'll speak for myself and I intend to make a motion that would allow you to use that side patio as well as long as the screening was there that you just put screening on the back part of that patio adjacent but I my intention was to include that within the motion I just want to make sure that that screening requirement is consistent with what you were thinking and and you're fine with that yes all right great so with that I

[Speaker 23] (32:14 - 32:23)
that is consistent with your requirements and I'm total okay so Peter

[Speaker 2] (32:23 - 32:34)
made a motion to close Katie seconded all those in favor I would make a motion

[Speaker 1] (32:35 - 32:59)
to grant the beer wine and cordial license to Oscar Guerrero for the Pomona three restaurant with hours of operation Monday seven days a week excuse me 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. with the condition that the outdoor seating contains screening on the side patio closest to the happy school second all

[Speaker 2] (32:59 - 33:44)
right any further discussion all those in favor okay thank you mr. Guerrero good luck all right that we have our second public hearing which is a public hearing for an earth removal permit request for site work and building construction for the new Swampscott Elementary School at the existing Stanley school site located at 10 Whitman Road and I have a motion to open

[Speaker 7] (33:44 - 34:30)
that public hearing so move a second all right are we handing it over to Max we are you know at this point I'm I just want to recognize Max Casper Swampscott facilities director Max has been working with our school building committee and has been coordinating some of the work with our earth removal committee we have members of our earth removal committee here and we will just give the board an overview of the permit and some of the recommendations that we have as we prepare for the bid for the construction of this new twin elementary school hey

[Speaker 1] (34:30 - 34:54)
Neil before we start can I just I want to just hear a disclosure so on Monday I reached out to the State Ethics Commission just to clarify that my participation on both the school building committee and the select board doesn't present an actual or appearance of conflict the attorney for the day said it does not but I don't know abundance of caution I did file the appearance disclosure with the town clerk's office thanks Peter okay thank

[Speaker 3] (34:54 - 40:55)
you Sean as Sean said I am the town's facilities director and a member of the school building committee and we are before you tonight seeking an earth removal permit for the new elementary school at 10 Whitman Road our project team is here with me both present in person and we have some design team members also on zoom should we need to get some technical support from them so we we have met multiple times with the earth removal Advisory Committee in anticipation of seeking this permit in front of the select board we had extended multiple meetings with with Iraq the meetings were extremely productive we went through all the details of the earth removal process really granular we worked through every little detail and you will see that in the permit before you tonight we're happy to answer any questions on any of the specific items within that permit we did not intend to go through each item line by line we did that with the earth removal and it took three hours on two separate nights so I don't think that that's what you're looking for from us but again absolutely happy to answer any specific questions about any specific items in that permit for the most part we were able to come to a consensus with the earth removal Advisory Committee on the large majority of the items under their jurisdiction and within the permit there is one particular item that we do need to speak to tonight that we were not in total agreement with the Advisory Committee at once they close their meetings and that is the peak particle velocity limitation which the earth removal Advisory Committee has advised a limit of 1.0 and they they weren't that wasn't a definitive number that that they that they landed on that they definitely grappled with where that should be and what would be appropriate for for this project and following up from that meeting we have continued to really dig down into into that number into that unit and what it really means and feel very strongly that the appropriate limitation for this project at this site in Swampscott is 2.0 which is the state limitation for peak particle velocity at at the property line so again I can we can go into really really technical depths of what that means but the really important distinction for our property versus a larger industrial commercial quarry type operation is that the duration of our blasting operation is the critical component as to how high our level of human annoyance for the extent of the project is going to be for example you know the peak particle velocity at the quarry was set at a certain number because the quarry is there in perpetuity it's going to be there for a long time and the the size of the blasts week in and week out is really critical when you look at our project site and the level of activity that we're going to have it's not the same type of analysis and a better way to look at it is whatever numbers you set the impact that that has on the duration of our blasting activity and the ancillary operations to a blasting operation like trucking and drilling and crushing and all of those type of things that come along with a blasting operation are really the important things to look at and if you're to lower the peak particle velocity from the 2.0 standard state limit that most projects statewide would be set at down to 1.0 you're going to impact the duration of our blasting and ancillary operations it's hard to pinpoint exactly how much but you could it could double it it could more than double it and we could have a blasting operation on this site for upwards of six plus months which we really feel strongly is not the best thing for the neighborhood and is not the best thing for the town and it would actually be contrary to the goal of the ERAC and the select board to minimizing human annoyance so to that end and to be fair to ERAC they they were grappling with this issue and after our final meeting with them we did reach out to Jay Perkins who's a blasting consultant that has previously advised for the town and we presented him all the information we had on this site and he took a look and has actually provided a letter that we have provided the select board today which gives a recommendation for a 2.0 peak particle velocity at the property line for the 10 Whitman Road development so again I'm not going to go on any more about that happy to to discuss the particulars of that technical analysis about the peak particle velocity should you wish to but I'm really gonna end my initial presentation there because again everything else in the permit we are we are pleased with we think is consistent with a productive project that is fair to the neighborhood and fair to the town and and really can make this project successful so I'll leave it there and open it up to the board if there's any questions before the board asked

[Speaker 7] (40:55 - 40:58)
question John did you have any the chair of our ERAC committee did you want to

[Speaker 11] (40:58 - 41:40)
yeah there's in the document Mike to him he has one in the document item number four trucking rooting sorry John can you just introduce yourself or jump it well chair of a virtual advisory committee item number four truck rooting and temporary traffic control plan there's an error there that states in this third line such routes not route not go beyond damas road bridge we received a updated traffic map that shows that the traffic will go as far as Burroughs Street but no further so beyond damas road not to go beyond

[Speaker 1] (41:40 - 41:48)
damas road is in an error ours actually I think is the corrected version oh I think we have not beyond Burroughs Street on our permit I printed this

[Speaker 11] (41:48 - 41:58)
today it's still in there okay great great thank you okay and do you or any

[Speaker 2] (41:58 - 42:10)
other members at ERAC you want I invite you to comment on anything that Mac you know for that synopsis I invite you to chime in on anything that he spoke to or

[Speaker 11] (42:15 - 43:43)
well yeah you know max is correct in stating that the operation at the quarry is not saying what's going to happen at Stanley school at the same time we we were there's a lot of uns answered questions because we don't know who the contractor is we can't talk to him we don't know who the blaster is we can't confer with him as to what his plan is going forward to resolve what he needs to do to get the rock out of the ground the quarry you know we limit the depth that they blast we limit the size of the hole we don't limit the amount of holes that they blast but they blast between 40 and 60 holes at a time 50 feet deep that's not going to happen at Stanley school they're not going to go down 50 feet I think if you look at the field and realize that the foundation of the school is going to be down there we're talking maybe at a max maybe 15 feet most of the outcroppings that are there are only going to be removed you know four to six feet to allow for trees to be planted and the ground to be leveled so it's not the same operation as the quarry not not the same as a commercial operation such as the quarry but again we we reserve the right to take and and we will meet with the contractor and the blaster when they have been appointed

[Speaker 2] (43:45 - 43:56)
thanks that's helpful just procedurally just so I know is it better to do public comments in the public typically in a public hearing or do we yeah we can

[Speaker 1] (43:58 - 44:58)
Max do you have another copy of J versus do you have a card copy with you yeah can you please any copies you have could you share them with us because not everybody on this board has talking about you should see it on your email so I think it's so I think the letter is important enough that we take a few minutes to let members read it and also read it out loud but because I think it's an important letter that we need to understand for this hearing tonight so okay want to however you

[Speaker 2] (44:58 - 52:22)
want it however you want to do this yeah I'm happy to I mean I can read it as I'm reading it that works sure yeah that's fine okay so as Max mentioned this is from our blasting consultant Jay Perkins from Brearley Associates and bear with me for a second okay all right this letter provides our recommendation for blasting vibration limits to be used during construction of the new Stanley School building located at 10 McWin Road in Swampskate approximately 13,000 cubic yards of bedrock excavation by drill and blast methods will be required for construction of the new building and associated site development based on the Novus engineering geotechnical report the rock has been described as hard to very hard medium-grained Salem gabbro diorite the site is located within a residential neighborhood where the existing school building will be demolished to allow for new building construction abutting residential structures will be as close as 20 feet from the drill and blast activities the town's earth removal Advisory Committee has proposed to set the vibration limits for blasting to not exceed a peak particle velocity of one inch per second this is 50% of the state and national regulations an industry standard of two inches per second to prevent cosmetic damage to residential structures we have assumed Iraq proposed reducing the vibration limit of this industry standard level not because the limit is unsafe or known to cause damage to structures but to minimize potential human annoyance levels of abutting residents from blasting induced vibrations safe vibration limits have been adopted as industry standard and regulatory body from 40 years of research done by US Bureau of Mines and documented in the Bureau of Mines report of investigations ri8507 this report recommends a maximum safe level of PPV PPV for residential structures based on frequency of blast vibrations above a frequency of 40 Hertz USB M recommends a maximum PPV of 2 inches per second to minimize the probability of cosmetic damage to interior walls of residential structures based on our experience with blasting similar rock at the quarry we anticipate a vibration frequency range at the school building site to be between 40 and 60 Hertz these limits are safe for preventing cosmetic damage to the weakest building materials hairline cracking or the extension of existing hairline cracks the plaster and sheetrock walls within residential structures these safe levels for blasting are also incorporated into the Massachusetts regulations CMR 165 9.1 and national regulations and FPA 495 11.2 point one these limits are used to protect buildings for potential vibration damage from blasting and do not address the impacts on humans and their annoyance levels humans can perceive vibrations that may be barely perceptible at PPV levels as low as 0.02 to 0.06 inches per second and become distinctly perceptible at levels between 0.2 and 0.5 inches per second figure below this is where you got to see the letter is from the USPM study and provides vibration damage criteria or an upper limit line from blasting on residential structures also shown on this figure is a qualitative measure of vibration levels perceptible sorry doesn't really matter because you can't see it anyway so I'm going to go to the next paragraph the two primary design factors that impact the blasting vibration levels are the weight of explosives detonated for each delay and the distance between the blast and structure of concern as you are aware Iraq has recently reduced the vibration limit for blasting at the town quarry from the inner industry standard limit of 2 inches per second to 0.5 inches per second the intention for this limit reduction was to provide a long-term solution for reducing the human annoyance level and subsequent complaints from the abutting residents in general we agree with this limit reduction at the quarry knowing there will be minimal impacts to mining production and given the blasting duration for quarry operation could be for infinite time in addition the range of explosive weight per delay at the quarry has been between 100 and 900 pounds and the distance from the quarry blasting to the nearest residents has been between 700 and 2,000 feet with these very large ranges we feel there is significant flexibility with blast designs to easily limit the vibration level it's a less than 0.5 inches per second without impacting quarry production such is not the case for blasting at the school site where blasting designs for the school project will be an extremely scaled down version of explosive weight and distance to that of the quarry blast designs allowing for virtually no flexibility using industry standards our preliminary production blast design shows a maximum charge weight of one and a half pounds of explosives half a stick per per delay at a 20-foot distance to the nearest structure generates a vibration level of just under two inches per second we have estimated the blasting duration to be approximately three months with a vibration limit set at two inches per second reducing the limit to one inch per second will require the need for smaller and more blast rounds necessary to achieve the required rock excavation that could increase total blasting duration by up to 200% this assumes conducting one to two blast rounds at the school site per day if the objective at the school project is to minimize human annoyance by reducing the vibration limit by 50% a comparison must be made on the estimated blast duration with each limit you must also consider the all-day activities associated with blasting such as breaking the blasted rock with a mechanical hammer drilling the blast holes with a rock drill processing the fractured rock or reuse on-site and truck traffic throughout the neighborhood all these activities can be extremely annoying to humans relative to noise and ground vibrations based on the above information our recommendation would be to consider the shorter duration for exposing the abutters to noise and vibrations of approximately three months using the industry standard vibration limit of two inches per second rather than a prolonged exposure to noise and vibrations with the reduced limit you have any questions about our recommendations or require additional information please feel free to contact me so very similar to what max had explained lower vibration limit equals longer duration of project which more of a nuisance for the neighbors with that I think I appropriate to open to public comment I know that there's I know there are people here who want to comment you can just go to the microphone and comment and if there are folks on zoom you raise your hand and then also as usual you can email me at and Duffy at swamp Scott ma gov yep

[Speaker 15] (52:22 - 54:43)
someone assume yep hello I'm Sheila Billings and I live at 14 Laurel Road and I'm new to the neighborhood but I do have some questions and concerns my first one my first one is a plea to everybody here who's so smart and knows about lasts per second and all sorts of things like that I taught kindergarten and I had to teach the concept of planetary orbits I had to teach metamorphosis of insect and I had to do it in five-year-old words so I would appreciate it greatly if anyone could use words for people that don't know what the heck you're talking about it would be very helpful secondly I understand the idea of the blasting if you use weaker blasting it will have to go on longer but it doesn't sound like there'd be more rocks to take out the number of rocks would be the same wouldn't it the volume so what I'm hearing is that it's going to take twice as long to blast that rock apart once you do the explosions and that doesn't make sense to me so if someone could explain that that would be great third I'm not happy with the starting time of 7 a.m. that doesn't seem fair to the residents I'm a retired person but especially to people who are on vacation for the summer or God bless them they still have to work which I don't have to do to have blasting at 7 a.m. every day isn't isn't fair we want the best schools for the children but we also should have a nice place for the residents to live and what was the other thing Tom I'll get it all off my chest okay thank you thank you thank you it was the idea of he doesn't want to get involved with this we're not

[Speaker 2] (54:43 - 54:50)
going anywhere don't worry you can get back up and asking yeah so max would

[Speaker 3] (54:50 - 56:11)
you like to address sure thanks thanks Neil I'll adjust the last one first the 7 a.m. start time for the hours of operation that's very consistent with the construction industry starting times but I did want to point out that there is sensitivity in the permit for some of the activities that are particularly have the potential to be annoying and those activities are not permitted to start at 7 a.m. so I think it is totally reasonable to ask to start a construction project at 7 a.m. that's that's a very very normal starting time for construction sites across the town across the state but it really wouldn't be reasonable to say we're gonna you know hit the blast off at 7 a.m. we're gonna start the crusher at 7 a.m. and having that sensitivity we have put a level of detail into our hours of operation to alter the start times on some of those other activities and then to the two lasting questions I think I I'm gonna hand off the mic to Mike Carroll our owners project manager to give some light on those.

[Speaker 5] (56:11 - 58:14)
Thank you Max my name is Mike Carroll I'm with Hill International and we're the owners project manager we're really here to represent the owner on this project and make sure that we're following through with all the commitments that we've made to not only the community but also to the school in the school district to try and simplify the questions at hand there's really two things that could potentially affect a neighbor it's the ground shaking that you hear and that's what we're talking about when we're talking about the limit of 1.0 or 2.0 and it's the noises that you're going to hear and and that's measured in decibel levels and we're looking to have limits on both of those we're looking to make sure that those limits are safe and and effective and will protect everybody and protect your property and everything of that nature but at the same time we're trying to allow the contractor to move forward in an efficient manner which ultimately saves the town money so it's really you know working in a safe manner you're going to feel a vibration when the ground when the blast does go off but it's going to be a safe level it's not going to be something that is is going to injure you or injure your your property and then the noise level again keeping that noise level down to a minimum so again the noise level that you're going to hear with the blast is typically what you would hear it with a thunderstorm with with one blast of thunder that's typically what you're going to hear with the blast at the loudest I hope that that clarifies that and then specific to the question in regards to the the number why would it take longer with the number being smaller that number measures the vibration of the ground so if we're requiring that vibration to be smaller we have to do smaller size blasts and if you're doing smaller blasts for the same amount of material you're doing more of them so it just it expands that and and that's really you know without getting more technical I think that's kind of a the simplest version of that I hope that might clarify it a little bit

[Speaker 15] (58:14 - 58:32)
is it going to be coming out in a lot of trucks and and whatever but the

[Speaker 5] (58:32 - 58:41)
itself so for example if I asked you to dig a pool in your backyard and I gave you a shovel or I gave you a an excavator the excavator is going to do

[Speaker 1] (58:41 - 1:00:05)
it much faster so by yeah yeah so let me can I get this a try Michael and Max tell me if I'm saying this I think mrs. Billings question is a good question so it's not you're going to be doing if it's a smaller PPV limit of 0.5 you're going to be doing smaller blasts meaning less shallow holes but you're going to be doing them from instead of it according to the memo here instead of a three month process potentially up to six months but in that six month process you're going to be every day drilling every day excavating the blast you're going to blast every day you're going to excavate the blast rocks every day you're going to put it into a dump truck and that dump trucks going to leave the site and come back and that is going to be an everyday occurrence though for six months as opposed to a more intense three-month process I think is the comparative analysis just it's not about the volume I totally get I think yes so it's it's the I think it's the ancillary things that happen with every blast and with every blast there is five steps right there is the prep of the blast yep there is then the blast and then there is the excavation of the blast the hauling of the blast and all those things and it's trying to avoid those five steps every time for twice as many blasts over twice as much longer period so I think that's the that's the thesis anyways I'm

[Speaker 15] (1:00:05 - 1:01:46)
not arguing that I understand that and I get it but I also understand the idea that we do have to realize that people live there yeah and you I love the term annoyance because it's kind of more than an annoyance but yeah yeah and I think I really think that I would love the town to really feel that as much as we needed to be nice for the children we also needed to be nice for the people and if it takes a little longer I mean yes it's a seesaw whether you go full force whether you go let but I think that a lot of thought needs to go into making it as good as it can be for everybody and I remembered my other thing in it and it's about the idea of I went to the other meeting and I didn't ask any questions you're welcome the idea of having engineers check the houses for cracks and I'm probably saying it wrong but I think that I thought that I heard them say that they were going above the minimum requirement for that I would like to think that Swampskate was going to do a little better than above the minimum requirement I would like to think that any of us that that are living very close to the area would be checked if we felt like we had damage to our houses not just within the minimum perimeter so now I should stop talking

[Speaker 2] (1:01:46 - 1:02:12)
and let someone else talk I just to miss Billings I just want to mention Matt Max mentioned it but the 7 a.m. is blasting operations not actual blasting in the permit actual blasting is nine to four well that's better less than a million I think there's crushing maybe you can start at eight but that's that's a

[Speaker 15] (1:02:12 - 1:02:15)
million times better thank you

[Speaker 9] (1:02:18 - 1:06:48)
hi my name is Tasia Vasilio I live at 16 Lewis Road I'm outside the 300 feet from the school but I am on the same bed of rock the only thing between my house and you know the site where all the blasting is going to take place is the Ewingwood earlier today I pulled up a Google Earth map of the quarry and I looked to see how far away the homes were around it and they are quite a distance away and my understanding is that we have extended extra precautions to the quarry for the residents for the protection of the neighbors there I think it's very very very fair to expect that the town would do the same for us when you look at the proximity of the homes to the Stanley school site many of them abut the property and these are people's homes on average it takes somebody 30 years to pay off their home it's a 30-year investment that you're not done with after 30 years it's your home it you build it it's your life you want to feel safe there you don't want to be afraid for it so I am very concerned about the damage that could potentially be caused by the blasting we talked a lot and we heard a lot about human annoyance tonight human annoyance is the least of my concerns I'm not worried about the noise I'm not worried about the exploding sounds what I am really worried about is all the field stone foundations in that part of town there are many homes including mine that's a hundred years old and they are old houses sitting on the same bed of rock so in Marblehead they about 10 years ago built the Glover school and there was quite a bit of blasting that was involved in getting that that site ready to build there there were many homes outside of that 300 foot radius I think it was 250 back then 250 feet that were damaged and I spoke to some of the neighbors there who were very upset about it because they were never compensated in any way they were left on their own to repair their homes after the damage so while we talk about human annoyance what we really should be talking about is property damage too they said in the paper that the blasting levels at the Glover school were well below the limits so if two is the limit and they're well below the limit and the house is down Tedesco Road are getting damaged what's gonna happen to us I see you know history repeating itself and even to a bigger scale if we're going to be going to the full limit of two so you know I can't emphasize enough that residents in town should be treated and protected equally okay so we again we're much closer than the quarry residents and I just wanted to share this quote that I found earlier today it's a quote by David Grishman and tugging at your talking to you guys here you're speaking to Tom Polaria and it's in response to some of the concerns with the quarry and you say Tom Polaria your house obviously doesn't shake during these blasts you aren't affected but many are I am residents in precinct one and across Swampscott deserve to have their quality of life protected and then you go on to say a few more things you wrap it up with we have a town that is standing up and attempting to finally protect residents what a concept and positive change if you ask me so those are very powerful words I thank you for them I'm encouraged by them I hope you will protect us as well

[Speaker 38] (1:06:48 - 1:08:07)
I wanted to speak at this meeting but I want to preface my remarks by saying that I'm have difficulty hearing everyone my hearing aids aren't perfect and so I would like a response in writing if possible I would like very much the name of the company that is doing the blasting and I'm sorry oh and Yvonne and Yvonne and I'm sorry I really don't hear well it's not an exaggeration it's a reality I probably own the house that is closest to the site probably have the most to lose in this deal I share a lot of I'm sure my neighbors concerns about the vibration the blasting etc etc but I would like to protect myself as much as can and be as proactive as possible I saw that there is such a thing as pre blast inspection which I would like to get information on I have gotten the runaround so far about that and I would like to as my house was built in 87 and it is paid off and it represents my entire financial future I

[Speaker 31] (1:08:07 - 1:09:16)
need to protect my asset thank you my name is Steve I live at 20 Orchard Road and I have a couple of questions and one comment the first comment is I feel like we're not being looked out for in this neighborhood having this project you know really overwhelming the neighborhood and as far as the blasting I think you should look forward to maybe lower in the blasting having more duration of time I know the project will take longer to build and it'll cost a little more money perhaps that way I'm not sure but you know to limit the damage would be what we're concerned about noise not a big deal and our second question is what trucking will be used is probably going to be 500 trucks 500 trucks whether it's three months or six months still 500 trucks the same amount of material will be removed and my final question is I heard there was contaminated soil up there now if that gets airborne where's it gonna go and how are you gonna remove that safely that's all I have to say I hope you're concerned with my

[Speaker 2] (1:09:16 - 1:09:27)
feelings do we want to do you want to address the truck root in the

[Speaker 3] (1:09:27 - 1:12:40)
contaminated soil questions before we thanks Neil I'm sure the the truck route is going to be leaving the site on Whitman on to orchard one of the orchards I can't remember which one is which down to Humphrey a minute ago left on Humphrey down to Salem Street down Salem Street into Vinnins Square and from there it will divert either north into Salem down Essex Street up to Damask Road down 1a through down Paradise Road or down Essex Street down borrow Street to Lou it broad broad and Lewis and when it'll be one of those routes but the primary route leaving the site is is Humphrey to sell yeah there are our test borings did identify some contaminated soil at the at the property there's obviously no different levels of contaminated soil so it's a term that that means different things it's not at a concerning level it doesn't even require certain levels of reporting to DEP it's being you know closely managed by our geotechnical engineer for a soil management plan for how those will be how those will be dealt with properly so that they will be brought to the appropriate places we've actually done additional test pourings and test pits to fully understand the extent of the size of the areas of contaminated soil and the the size has actually gone down drastically as we've been looking into it further and further and testing it more and more so there's actually very very little soils that are at a high enough level where they need to be brought to a certain place again I'm not to knock it into the overly technical details and then there's a little bit more of these amounts of soils that that need to go to certain landfills and there are certain procedures for when these soils are are dug up that you know to make sure that the the dust control related to the to the soil management there's an entire soil management plan this is really closely monitored but it's it's also very important to note that the overarching theme of the of the contamination is that there's no threat to human health with any of these soils with the with the levels that they are at and actually we've been able to scale back the type of reporting to DEP because it is at such a low level of contamination site wide and we were initially doing a type of plan called a plan which is a certain soil reporting plan to the DEP and upon further review of the site have been able to reduce that down to a soil management plan max

[Speaker 4] (1:12:40 - 1:12:51)
when you when you talk about the contaminated soil and you talk about the soils classified as class B1 or class B2 what does that mean so that that refers

[Speaker 3] (1:12:51 - 1:13:16)
to the type of a landfill that those soils need to be brought to some of those soils need to be brought to a landfill with no liner and then another type of those soils need to be brought to a certain type of landfill that has a liner so that those soils are where they eventually end up which is not anywhere actually close to here that that's what those classifications mean according to

[Speaker 1] (1:13:16 - 1:14:35)
my under understanding max I think it's gonna be helpful and maybe it's a Mike Carroll question I think it's helpful if you walk through the steps of what's gonna happen it's not like talk about the steps of removal of topsoil removal of hazardous materials talk about the LSP and in fairness to you the reason I know these things is that your earth removal package included extensive extensive information which is I think it's on the town website but we should make sure everybody has access to it so that's the only reason I know about it is about what the volume of contaminated soil is what's in the soil how you're gonna remove it and and the process for it and I think that just got missed tonight so I think we guys just take a step backwards and talk about what the process is explain what an LSP is just go through that because I think it's really people would say wait you're gonna blast but there's contaminated soil well the answer is no that contaminated soil is the first thing that gets taken care of on the site but how do people how do people know that and just just kind of go through if you don't mind go through that process because I think that in that level of detail comes a better degree of comfort and again it's all in your package but I think trusting that people did you guys submitted information that was this thick so trusting that people including myself didn't read every single study in it I will admit but talk about that because I think

[Speaker 31] (1:14:35 - 1:15:18)
that's Mike maybe you're the one that helped or David so I'm glad I'm glad you brought that up so it's so just I'm glad you asked that because there's a

[Speaker 3] (1:15:18 - 1:16:39)
and I'll leave the the comment you made about the contamination to the to the next response but it's really important to understand that when the limit is set at 2.0 that does not mean that the majority of the blasts that actually occur are anywhere near 2.0 in fact it's expected that the large majority of the blast on this site even with what we are proposing are going to be under 1.0 but there are going to be some particular areas when we get close to the property lines because of the nature of the site where the only effective way to blast is to start to approach that that limit and they're likely to be some of the smallest blasts that we do on the site but because of the proximity of the property line they need to be they need to start to approach 2.0 and those are not likely to cause property damage in fact the limit of 2.0 is time-tested to not cause property damage and if we did not but I'm just saying that if if we are not allowed to go to the limit of 2.0 when we come to these areas of ledge that are particularly close to the property line there's a possible that we would not be able to blast there at all and that there would be a hammer ram on that property for weeks on end and I'm sure you've heard what that's like that

[Speaker 31] (1:16:39 - 1:16:59)
is horrific I think there's you know it is a good example for here at the high

[Speaker 3] (1:16:59 - 1:18:27)
school because we looked back at some of the historic numbers here at the high school and I was looking at it with the former fire chief Kevin Breen we pulled some of the old reports and we're looking at them and the you know over and again it's point to point or point five and then you see blasts that are at like 1.6 1.7 and and you see the location of the measuring tool and it's at this particular property line you see that there's a corner of the building right there and you're gonna have all of the information there's a high likelihood that that was that those measurements were occurring because they were blasting in that area and we actually Kevin you know dug pretty deep on he looked at the damage reports and that that particular property that 20 I think was 20 the Greenway where they were literally measuring peak particle velocities upwards of 1.8 there was no no no property damage on the property so just to kind of give you a real-life example of where we're coming from what we're talking about we're not saying that we're gonna go in there and every day have 2.0 blasts the property line not anywhere near that it's just it's just a reality of of how we want to be able to approach it and if you lower the limit that's just gonna lower the entire approach because the blasters can't go over the limit and I want to make that that distinction so I think can we I'd

[Speaker 2] (1:18:27 - 1:18:41)
like to get to talking about the process and the removal first and then if and if people have questions please just make sure you're in front of a microphone because this is for folks who are watching at home too so specific to the

[Speaker 5] (1:18:41 - 1:20:13)
question on the contaminated soils again my company Hill International will be the owners project manager whenever there's construction on-site we will have an individual on-site basically as oversight on the project making sure that we're following all the rules and regulations all the requirements of the contracts and everything to make sure that we're making this site as safe as humanly possible and to make sure that we keep things on-site keep dirt and debris on-site keep the rocks on-site as far as the contamination itself though whenever we're dealing with any contaminated soils areas in addition to having our team on-site we're gonna have a person who's termed a licensed site professional LSP and that LSP they are experts in contaminations they understand heavy metals versus oils versus CFCs versus all the different you know really technical aspects and they're the ones that are going to help not only write the specifications to make sure that we're in compliance they're then going to help with the enforcement of those those specifications and those requirements and there's much stricter requirements when we're doing work within an area like that rather than what you would see in a typical non-contaminated area so all that contaminated soil will be addressed prior to any blasting if we're blasting in an area with contamination we have really very minimal areas on-site right now and we're actually trying to see what we can do with it with it with the design to again

[Speaker 1] (1:20:13 - 1:20:49)
stay out of those areas as much as humanly possible so am I correct though that the LSP is the one that's licensed by the state is the one that the state requires us to have and it's their license it's their signature that they're going to need to sign the manifest and they're gonna need to ultimately sign the closure to be able to say the contaminated soil was removed from the property and it was disposed in proper locations absolutely so that's what the LSP doesn't work for us the LSP is licensed by the state we'd pay for their time but the state requires us as any contaminated site to pay this person to watch it and to certify it to the state absolutely I have a question do we

[Speaker 8] (1:20:49 - 1:21:06)
actually have information as far as a map of the site of what has been tested what what areas of the site have been tested for contamination and is that site is that information on the website it is it's on our website it's in the

[Speaker 1] (1:21:06 - 1:21:18)
packet is it is it in the packet that's on the school building thing where is that information if we want to find it where can residents see that it was within the application so it's within the application the earth removal

[Speaker 8] (1:21:18 - 1:21:24)
application on our website I didn't I look at the application I didn't see

[Speaker 3] (1:21:24 - 1:21:42)
that application on the website and we do have a latest and greatest soil management and map of the site that you could even put on the screen

[Speaker 5] (1:21:52 - 1:22:15)
it's heavy metals and just to Max's point earlier about the safety if if no construction was happening if we weren't disturbing it it wouldn't have to be touched and you know it's it's it's just materials what you would typically find in what was an urban fill brought in when the Stanley School was built you know that the regulations back then just weren't what we have

[Speaker 2] (1:22:15 - 1:22:42)
nowadays so so I appreciate everyone's questions and and this is great information but I think in order to get all this information out as quickly and as effectively as we can I just ask that people stand up and go to the microphone and not ask questions out of the blue just because we'll never we'll never get through it so I think I'll ask Charlie if you'd like to and please

[Speaker 14] (1:22:42 - 1:27:19)
name and address please sure Charlie Pat's yours 130 Atlantic Avenue Swamp Square used to be freezing six now we're five so it's interesting listening to everybody by the way for whatever it's worth whether you believe it or not sometimes it is better to add a little extra charge to break rock and to get it done rather than Paul I'm kind of like pulling the band-aid off fast maybe not the best example but a fairly accurate one but that's not what I want to talk about so there's something called the DEP that stands for the Department of Environmental Protection some of the know the federal side it's called the EPA it's the CPA Environmental Protection Agency and it's interesting because I have in my hand a report from the DEP and you only go to the DEP if you have contamination that's above reportable limits it means that it's not good and you can have lead paint in your house and it's not reportable unless you have a child under a certain age and you're renting the property then it's reportable and you actually have to remove the lead paint it's interesting the town of Swampscott has a reportable condition how do I know that I got the report in my hand it is reportable and the reason we didn't have to do anything if we weren't building a school is because we wouldn't know it was there because we never tested for it but now since we've tested for it and we know it's there in fact I'm a little troubled because the testing happened last year and the town had a hundred and twenty days the maximum reportable amount of a hundred and twenty days to tell the state that we know that there's something bad there and you know how long the town of Swampscott took to tell them a hundred and twenty days the maximum amount and so lead isn't good for young children when it's on this property and we're taking every child from the town and we're bringing it to this place that's dangerous now it doesn't mean that it can't be fixed it just means it needs to be acknowledged for what it is it's dangerous and I'm troubled because in this report that went to the state Pete's right it's called an LSP license site professional heard that a few times the town when it did a DEP report on the water tower it used a licensed site professional I know that because I got the reports right here his name his license number and all that but when we did the filing to the Stanley school site you know the only thing that's there they received it no name no file I can tell you that I'm not an LSP I can't take a soil sample I can't send it into a laboratory I can't get the results certified legally and act in behalf because you're licensed by the state and the town of Swampscott isn't licensed by the state and so when I look at all this it troubles me that I think we can do much better I think we do need a new school I think if it's going to be there it needs to be done correctly and the other thing is that the cost of the school we all gonna have to bear that we're gonna crush rock we're gonna truck rock we're gonna go back and forth I can assure you that if you don't have to truck the rock because you can crush it on site and you can mitigate the risk by using water to stop the dust from going because you're taking that rock you're picking it up you're dropping in a truck you're bringing it there you're trucking it through the town and there's wind that goes through those trucks I can guarantee you and so those particles are going to be everywhere and I would strongly urge that the crushing be done on-site not only is it safer it is a little noisier but it's safer because you're not bringing that rock through that and it's less expensive now I don't know if this site can support the maximum productivity that you normally would want for a site like this but there's like half truths and everything and what I found by listening is that you know in a court of law they say the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth not the part of the truth that just fits your narrative Pete's pretty good at that he's really good at that actually in fact if I were in business I want Pete with me but in

[Speaker 2] (1:27:19 - 1:27:25)
government it doesn't well I'm commenting on what he said about the

[Speaker 14] (1:27:25 - 1:27:51)
LSPs because he made a he made a point about telling us that it's a licensed site professional in the state of Massachusetts and the town's gonna hire it and they didn't hire one here because it's missing it's missing and it should be there we deserve that we all deserve our kids deserve that lead in the ground isn't good for children okay thank you thank you my being limited on

[Speaker 2] (1:27:51 - 1:28:29)
time my microphone is being muted okay thank you I just want to point out the earth removal application points out the application I appreciate the investigative work the earth removal application actually points out that there's contaminated soil and max am I right right I understand that rock crushing is happening on-site mr.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:29 - 1:29:20)
chairman can I ask the design team do we have an LSP on our time and on our design team yes we do yeah okay let me just let me let me tell you I normally wouldn't respond to something and I think it's great you all applauded if you think that that was helpful information but to scare you spend the better part of your life developing real estate you're actually trying to redevelop one of the most contaminated sites in Lynn so please don't use the gotcha scare tactics here there are answers if you want answers mr. Patsy oh so you're one of the most informed people on this topic you don't need to have the theater of gotcha stuff to make neighbors who are already concerned more concerned their concerns are valid their questions are valid but we don't we don't we don't need any more gotcha theater thing so go up and ask the questions before you so have you tested

[Speaker 14] (1:29:20 - 1:29:24)
the groundwater to see if any of the lead has leached into the groundwater

[Speaker 1] (1:29:24 - 1:30:53)
and affected any of the neighbors to the design team are you doing everything that the mass contingency plan requires the state DEP requires the US EPA requires are you testing everything and manifesting it and filing it in compliance with all DEP and EPA regulations and laws that's to my knowledge yes so we've tested the groundwater mr. Patsy oh that's not what our jurisdiction here's tonight they have to comply with everything right they have to it's just like any other project it's like your projects which I presume you also make sure comply with everything thoroughly you don't make them comply I said thoroughly thoroughly which I know you know the process so the fact that you are a bit fear-mongering tonight is just unfortunate because there are answers there is a thesis of information online that I don't know if you've read yet but there no no you are taking one line on one filing that no one mr. Pat CEOs you are using the absence of something to prove something that can be very concerning that is not if you wanted the answer you would have sought it from the team as opposed to your online sleuthing that one document DP the LSP does the manifest and certifies the closure of the site we haven't closed the site because they haven't even done anything on the site right now so again I just ask you to refrain from the theater and the gotcha for you more than anybody because you are one of the most knowledgeable people about taking dirty sites and doing stuff with them okay

[Speaker 2] (1:30:53 - 1:31:03)
thank you thank you mr. Pat says thank you thank you my name is Gail Brock I'm

[Speaker 33] (1:31:03 - 1:33:05)
a neighbor of the proposed school and I feel oh 12 Laurel Road the human annoyance factor about for this construction is enormous you're talking 7 in the morning till 6 at night Monday through Friday and possibly Saturdays as well which is in this earth removal permit and has not been discussed we're going to have blasting and we're going to have a crusher chipper and the number of dump trucks somebody said 500 I think the number is going to be more like 2,500 given the volume that has to go out of there and then come back and once they start building they're bringing more truckloads of dirt and whatnot into the site so the that volume is enormous and so the I mean the human annoyance factor for this neighborhood is huge and the property damage possibilities are also enormous and I don't think anyone on the select board has considered how bad it will be to live in this neighborhood for the next three months while you're doing all of this stuff or for six months if we get you to do smaller blasts either way it's going to be really annoying and noisy and we're having all these trucks in town 2,500 3,000 trucks nobody really knows how many so I think you have to give careful thought to what you're going to do to mitigate all of this stuff that's going to go on and the school when it's built will cost us more than a hundred million dollars and there isn't a single child in this town that is going to be able to walk to that school when we don't have crossing guards available at every single crossing because there's no way to get to that school so the traffic problems are horrendous at the school and they'll be horrendous while you're doing the site prep. Thank you.

[Speaker 9] (1:33:11 - 1:33:40)
I live within the 250 feet from the school and I would like to see an offset that would protect more neighbors if the science is accurate and even blasting at 2 PPV would not damage homes I would think that we could extend the radius up to 800 feet to include those homes in that survey as well. Thank you.

[Speaker 17] (1:33:45 - 1:37:15)
Charlie Donahue 19 Orchard Road. My wife and I and our daughter before she moved out have lived there since 1983. My understanding if somebody made reference to it I don't think it can be marginalized is that all of us and I think we all have fieldstone foundations and we're all on the same ledge and you know this idea that you're talking about somebody is someone house 250 feet away is sufficient it just doesn't make any any any logical sense.

When I was looking and I sadly left it in my briefcase I somebody was kind enough to put a copy of the proposal online and there were a couple of things that concern me. First of all going back to something else someone asked and I don't think it was addressed is are you going to are you going to look at the homes in the neighborhood is there going to be some assessment of what the homes are like as as they stand right now and I nobody responded to that. When I was looking at this proposal I I guess I guess a lawyer wrote it and God bless lawyers but they they they were talking about contingencies for how many hours in the day but we can change that who's going to change it the severity of the blasts well there's a contingency for that whether you work on Saturday until four o'clock and you start at seven but if you have to contain you know make it longer we can it even went to holidays I mean a series of these all with open-ended well you know somebody out there and be nice to know who is going to make these decisions as to whether or not things go longer or not or become more involved or not and I guess lastly and and and I don't think it was quite accurate the earlier response is that my reading of this agreement is that the trucks are going to come in on Orchard Circle and they're going to go out on Orchard Road so those of us who live on either of those roads are looking at hell for whatever number I mean the blasting I guess is you know that could go whatever three or six months but the building is going to take a year or more and so I'm just you know wondering why one neighborhood in particular is going to be the recipient of this incredible and excessive traffic I was a little concerned I mean we all drive up Swanscot Road frequently and in the summer and I always see a sweeper there going along Swanscot Road as the as the as the all the 18-wheelers come out full of whatever product is there and and in the contract it's a contingency as we need it well if the numbers of trucks are what they're saying then it should be written into the contract that no a sweeper has to be there constantly going around Orchard Circle and Orchard Road and and they talk about tarpaulins on top of the trucks well if this contaminated soil again we're here that somebody's going to be there who's going to be there who's going to watch over them who from the town is going to watch over these folks and and sort of represent our rights so thank you

[Speaker 2] (1:37:20 - 1:37:36)
I think it might be helpful to have the project team explain the steps in terms of before operations start what homeowners can expect how you're assessing you know sort of the baseline conditions what the scope of that work

[Speaker 7] (1:37:36 - 1:40:28)
is and then what the process is I just make a comment I'm the town administrator this is a town project and just like every neighborhood that has had to deal with a project I want you to know that we're going to represent you as this project moves forward we're going to visit the site we're going to meet with you on the site we're going to talk to you and help you work through this project as we've worked through other neighborhoods we had a Greenwood school that went through a redevelopment and we met with the neighbors we talked with them about the blasting and the dust and the earth removal and the mitigation and how we would work with everybody I understand that this is going to be difficult and I certainly understand that many of you are concerned but we do have an extraordinary team and this is a town project it's a town project where we want this neighborhood to be successful we want you to be supported but we have to move forward and do this as carefully and as efficiently as possible because frankly we we don't want you to suffer through this for longer than you have to and we want to be mindful of all the things that you won't to be doing over the next few months and years we understand that there's gonna be you know all sorts of activities we want to make sure that we don't have the blasting at times that really disrupt your life we don't have a contractor on board yet and when we get a contractor on board we can work with the contractor and we can get more specificity but because of public bidding laws we have to go out to bid we have to get a specification set that allows us to mitigate risk in a market that's upside down and certainly complex we want to make sure that we build the best school possible and as much as folks may think that we have all the money in the world to solve all the problems of the world we have to be sensible Swansk it's an expensive town and we're trying to do the best we can with the limited funds that we have but I want to reassure you that just because we're the town and we're moving forward with the project that does not mean that we don't care about you and that we won't care about you and won't be here when you might have concerns about how the projects moving forward that said we do have truly an outstanding team of qualified professionals dedicated professionals and they're gonna be here all night to talk about the concerns that you have no that's okay thanks John

[Speaker 2] (1:40:28 - 1:40:50)
so I'd like if the project team could just go through that process for us in terms of because there have been numerous comments about damage and how we how do they know you know that they will be if there is damage how is that how does that work so neighbors maybe I can start with just talking about the

[Speaker 5] (1:40:50 - 1:43:09)
pre blast survey which people have been talking about so state requirement whenever you're doing blasting is that within 250 feet of the blast area you need to do a pre blast survey rather than going from the blast area we have extended that out to the property line for the full property of the school and rather than going 250 feet from there we proposed to go 300 feet out that can certainly be a number that can be discussed but that survey what would typically happens is we do a series of three mailings and those mailings are actually done by the blasting subcontractor so you're gonna have their name their number their information everything coming to you the first two are typically standard US mail and it's asking for your permission for them to set up and come out and do a pre blast survey of your property because they cannot come on to your property without your authorization and then the third mailing will be a certified mail just to make sure that you know for certain that everybody gets this and that we have a record that you got it so there's no question did you get it did you not get it basically and it's it's to give everybody an opportunity to invite us out to do that pre blast survey now that pre blast survey is just to understand the the condition of your property prior to the construction prior to the demolition of the school in the blasting if we were to have a concern down the line it doesn't matter whether you had a survey with if you're within that 300 feet if you're outside of that 300 feet first and foremost we feel comfortable that at the 2.0 we don't believe that we're going to have damage but if we did have damage typically what you do is you report it to the town oftentimes that is done through the fire department so the report is done through the fire department because whenever we're blasting on-site in addition to all the people from my company and from the contractor and the blasting we're going to have a fire detail out there and they're going to be helping monitor to make sure that we don't go over the decibel limit and to make sure that we don't go over the particle limit wherever that ends up we have a lot of steps and a lot of checks and balances in that system to make sure that we don't go over those limits and to make sure that this is as safe a process as

[Speaker 1] (1:43:09 - 1:43:20)
we can make mr. chairman can you please explain what the pre blast survey is and go into detail as to what that survey is and and in more detail so the pre

[Speaker 5] (1:43:20 - 1:44:18)
blast survey is there they typically go around the house and either take videos or photographs and they identify they they they look at your foundation for example see are there existing cracks or are they not existing cracks and they document any anything if there is they go inside the house they look at the the drywall is there is there cracks is there different things they look at windows they look at all the existing conditions of the house to understand the issue you know the status of that house prior to the work starting then if we were to have a question from from a resident at a later date we now have a baseline that we can start from and we can compare to that baseline I mean just to be you know for instance you might think that you you didn't have a crack before and now you did it could be because the humidity changed and the crack in the concrete opened up it could be other things but it could also be that the crack was there and you just never noticed it so it's like it most

[Speaker 1] (1:44:18 - 1:44:51)
understand that I'd prefer you not explain the survey as a way not to pay out claims because it's not it's not survey is a way but I was gonna make sure so a copy of the survey is also shared with the property owner so the property owners what the survey is and so that just creates a tool to hold people accountable so that there all of a sudden is a big crack in the foundation the town can't say the contractor by the way who's ultimately on the insurance can't say um that wasn't that was there before if it wasn't there before right it creates an honest baseline for a conversation and just in as far as that

[Speaker 5] (1:44:51 - 1:45:13)
if there is damage it's not the town that's paying the damage we work for the town we're going to make sure that the contractor is held accountable and we're gonna make sure that everything is taken care of so you know ultimately it's the contractor's responsibility to make a safe site we're there to supervise that to make sure that the site's safe but if there is an issue we will make sure it's

[Speaker 2] (1:45:13 - 1:45:26)
addressed okay thanks I think did you have a question about that process first I'm Donald Granger 194 Forest Ave lifelong resident of Swampscott and 33

[Speaker 16] (1:45:26 - 1:45:42)
years on Minerva Street which is an eyesight of aggregate industries been on Forest Ave for about 14 my question is in regards to the pre-bio blast assessment I'm beyond the 300 feet but I want to be on the list how do I get

[Speaker 5] (1:45:42 - 1:45:54)
there because I have a big investment here so I I think we would be absolutely open if people beyond that 300 foot would want one that we would we'd be

[Speaker 9] (1:45:54 - 1:46:08)
able to have the contractor do that thank you yeah I'm sorry you know when

[Speaker 1] (1:46:08 - 1:46:11)
you have a second can we just people that haven't I know that are waiting on

[Speaker 9] (1:46:11 - 1:46:47)
yes before we get so my question was what recourse do people outside the 300 radius 300 radius have if there's damage the Glover school I know you keep saying that you don't anticipate to have any damage they had damage within the radius and outside the radius it really depends on how you're situated on that bedrock and as we've stated earlier many of us are so what recourse would we have if

[Speaker 5] (1:46:47 - 1:47:24)
we're outside that radius so as far as a pre blast survey or not having it or not having it that doesn't change your rights if you feel that there's damage to your your house you have the right to contact and then have it reviewed and have it assessed so there's no difference from that perspective you would my the fire department expectation is that it's typically that you contact the fire department and then the fire department typically is the one that's going to come out to the site in with the contractor in hand but it that way that we have a town representative I would have the site to review review

[Speaker 9] (1:47:24 - 1:47:30)
the the concerns so if I live outside the radius the town will come do the

[Speaker 5] (1:47:30 - 1:47:39)
survey if I request that so the survey is done prior to the blasting if after the blasting happens you feel that there's damage we would come out to do

[Speaker 9] (1:47:39 - 1:47:59)
it regardless if you had a survey prior or not right but in in order to support my claim it's better to have a survey done prior to so outside the radius if I request a survey to be done by the town that will I think that's something that

[Speaker 1] (1:47:59 - 1:48:02)
the project team saying they're open to which probably means you're about to

[Speaker 9] (1:48:02 - 1:48:32)
hear us talk about that okay in a few minutes okay and then you know I just wanted to just quickly follow up on one Sean said earlier because you have shown as a board and as a town that you do care about our residents and protecting us based on the quote that I said earlier and so we're just asking for the

[Speaker 4] (1:48:32 - 1:48:59)
quickly sure go ahead max just real real quick as two members of the Swampscott fire department who are qualified to be on site is it everyone or are there certain individuals that will that would be required to be on site during blasting is that is that something that's deputy chief pots chief Archer do we have an idea John you know the answer to that fully whenever there

[Speaker 11] (1:48:59 - 1:49:17)
is a blast schedule the fire department has to send a detail to observe the blast and and actually see what the seismograph readings are going to produce every single blast within the town's limit so I think Kevin I don't

[Speaker 6] (1:49:17 - 1:49:49)
know if you want to all I would say is that all the firefighters that are assigned to blasting details have to take a class through the fire academy before they're they're certified to go out and I mean that all members of the department have that training except for obviously new members you have to that you swore in tonight and so that they'll pick up that training during their Academy training but they won't be assigned to blasting details until it

[Speaker 4] (1:49:49 - 1:49:56)
thank you for that clarification so we're gonna go to the zoom participants

[Speaker 2] (1:49:56 - 1:50:03)
who are raising their hands if you can Steve Rosenberg if you can make him a

[Speaker 18] (1:50:07 - 1:50:33)
list hey Steve I think you can talk we see your name okay my name is Steve

[Speaker 2] (1:50:34 - 1:50:40)
can you hear and see me yeah we can now yeah can you provide your address to Steve please

[Speaker 18] (1:50:42 - 1:54:40)
Rosenberg I live at 16 Lewis Road in Swampscott I have spent majority of my 62 years within about a hundred yards of the Stanley School I grew up on Orchard Road I now live on Lewis Road I think this is a really fantastic meeting by the way and it's a great example of democracy and working together and it just makes me happy that we're talking on the other hand it's very confusing for me at this point where a town is set to spend a hundred million dollars on a project that it's barely consulted I mean that's what we're hearing from this this people for the last the residents for the last hour plus it's barely consulted our neighborhood about the impact we know nothing about this project or to select for nothing the I would just say this Swampscott we have a profound communication problem and I believe we're starting to talk tonight I see no hurry to rush this through and have a vote on this tonight I mean there's so many things that we're talking about a pre-blast survey no one has said we're gonna put this in writing that if someone's outside of this community area that the town will do it you know all the things that the community has just asked them to do that has to be in writing there's so many other issues one of our neighbors here I've never met him brought up the issue of lead I don't know how that that's gonna be remediated that's not something we just blow off either I would appear to you as you know residents and also partners let's make this a partnership let's work together you have a whole neighborhood that wants to make this work that needs to make this work I work at home I work in the best place in America I chose to move back partially because I know every inch of the Stanley school was okay and I know I know that things are changing but I really would just recommend you just take a step back understand that we are a community here and we can work together with you and make this work but please don't don't jump in and and vote on this tonight there's no point in that instead let's get some communication going let's appoint somebody from the town to work with the residents to hear all their concerns not so you're hearing it first tonight but down the road you know maybe we can have three or four meetings then come back this permit I don't even know where it is on the website I look for it I don't know where it is I didn't even know about this meeting until somebody spent their own money to Xerox a little message saying I should attend this meeting because it could be hundreds of blasts no one discussed blasts when this when this school was going to be built all I'm saying is you have a group of partners we're all partners in this you're our representatives much better communication we can help you make this a perfect project but you've got to work with us you just need to we don't need

[Speaker 2] (1:54:40 - 1:54:56)
to be on the same page okay thank thank you mr. Rosenberg Cindy Cavallaro is on zoom as well can you make her a participant panelist

[Speaker 24] (1:54:56 - 1:56:12)
please Cindy I think yeah we can thank you everyone and this is far far reaching just beyond the neighborhood where this who's going to be built my ears perked up first of all I live on Pine Street when I heard the trucks to be going down borrow and I guess my question is the final destination once they're removing whatever it is they're removing and why it would wind up going down one of the slightest smallest streets that really should be one way borrows free versus going down Salem Street and cutting down ethics past the cemetery on the Danvers Road if that's the route that they're supposed to be taking so I don't know that goes to max or the other gentleman's name is there a plan and who decided borrow Street was the street that the trucks are going to

[Speaker 3] (1:56:12 - 1:57:43)
go down to max do you want to comment on so I went through the list of a number of different routes and Sean referenced earlier that there's there's not actually a contractor hired on this project yet there is a public bidding process that needs to come after the permitting and depending on who the contractor is and who the site contractor is that is hired they could be bringing things to different locations so we were comprehensive in looking for multiple routes that are reasonable and can support trucks so we're not saying that trucks are going to go down borrow Street it's one of a few options and I also know that there's no there's different things coming in and out of the site and there may be different things going in different directions so it's not necessarily true that everything will follow one particular truck route and I think it's pretty safe to say that it does not mean that everything is going down borrow Street it's a complete possibility that nothing goes down borrow Street and I'll also add that in our meetings with Iraq they actually recommended utilizing borrow Street our original one of our original routes was to take Essex Street all the way to Eastern Ave and it was pointed out to us that that's a very difficult intersection for a large truck and there's actually been success with trucks turning off Essex on the borrow and getting to to Lynn and that route and that's how we landed on that as one

[Speaker 24] (1:57:43 - 1:58:45)
of the potential routes okay thanks ask just a couple more questions or maybe comment go ahead with the developments that are going on now possibly going through going on to Essex Street in terms of safety and traffic so it's going to be a nightmare whether borrow streets included in that or not you've got Elm Place you've got Michonne senior you've got the high school you've got possibly Lally's you've got another development on pine that might be going on I'm just suggesting that borrow should not be considered I don't know why it would be considered it's the very very tight residential area and for trucks to be going down there with God knows what's on them now and I heard about them possibly being toxic it's a concern for not just the people that live in that area but for everybody in town thank you for your time thank you

[Speaker 30] (1:58:45 - 2:00:56)
miss Cavallaro comments sir my name is Angel we're gonna know I live at 184 Forest Avenue I just want to go back to some comments we were making with respect to the blast severity if I heard you correctly is it mass max max I apologize max I think you made a comment and if I'm mistaking you please let me know you said although 2.0 is the limit you're likely not even going to hit the limit most times that's correct that said I think you also made a statement which was if we don't use 2.0 as a limit it's going to be from three to six months is that correct what's that oh you also made a comment which was if we don't go with a 2.0 limit we could be extending it from three to six months correct okay if we're not blasting at 2.0 we're blasting at one and a half then I'm questioning your math so I guess the point I'm trying to make is I feel as though the blast severity of 1.0 is more than enough for us to get this done in such a way that we're sensitive to all the neighbors that are sitting here telling you that they have concerns fieldstone foundations the bedrock there are a lot of things that I think we need to consider and I think the least this you guys can do is respect the 1.0 limit and knowing that by your words you're not going to blast the 2.0 anyways so it's probably not going to be six months in fact I'd offer that it might be closer to four and I don't disagree I don't I'm not a professional and I'm not going to pretend to be one but it based on what I'm hearing tonight I think 1.0 should be the limit and I think if we have to you know put up with a little bit more aggravation and save our homes I think that's a price that's a price I'm willing to pay so so that's just a comment I guess it's not a question right you tell me then then the other now I do have a question in terms of street sweeping so I haven't we just talked about the you know the aggregate that has the street sweepers and everything else that come out I haven't heard anything about street sweeping any of the polluted soil or chemicals off the

[Speaker 3] (2:00:56 - 2:01:50)
streets so we talked about street sweeping at length with with Iraq our recommendation was to leave like a performance based standard in the permit and then in the contract for street sweeping this goes back again to the fact that you know we're the town I work for the town these are contractors of the town setting a strict limitation on what the street sweeping is may not actually work to all of our advantage as the town because then the contractor says I'm I have to sweep the street once a week and they're gonna sweep the street once a week we want it to be if the street is dirty the contractor sweeps the street and all of us from the town from the neighborhood from the design team will make the make the contractors sweep the street as much as they need to sweep the street that was the with a minimum of one per once per

[Speaker 30] (2:01:50 - 2:01:52)
day is that what you're saying with a minimum whatever it needs to be done

[Speaker 3] (2:01:52 - 2:02:15)
that's the if they're not making if they're not doing something that is a dirty activity they may not need to sweep it if they're doing particularly dirty activities and the trucks are bringing dirt onto the street then yes it might be every day that was the logic behind that to keep us remain as flexible as possible not to try and not do it so once again I just want to

[Speaker 30] (2:02:15 - 2:02:20)
reinforce the fact that 1.0 really should be the limit here in light of everything you've heard so far tonight thank you guys for your time

[Speaker 1] (2:02:28 - 2:02:48)
yeah hi Kevin Breen and retired my name is Kevin green I'm retired

[Speaker 6] (2:02:48 - 2:07:35)
fire chief from Swampskate and I'm on the school building committee I just wanted to address the discussion about limit so the the 2.0 limit is a statutory limit if the blaster goes above that wherever he is whether it's the quarry or this project here at the high school or the the Stanley school project if they go above 2.0 or go over 133 decibels it's a reportable offense that's the reason that the fire the firefighter is on on scene to read the seismographs in real time as the shots are going off so I mean for example as max touched on I pulled a handful of the blasting records for the high school project so the one that I have in front of me is August 2nd 2005 and all of the reports from the seismographs they shot six holes five they shot four shots this day six holes five holes four holes six holes and all of the peak particle velocities were on the order of 0.295 0.12 0.70 0.213 however there was one at 20 the Greenway at 1.64 so he wasn't over the statutory limit they didn't do any damage at 20 the Greenway on that day because there was no reported damage that day and if you if you go to the 1.0 requirement if you drop to the 1.0 PPV limit the blast design is going to be well below 1.0 because that becomes their threshold with the town and it is going to vastly increase the amount of time that it takes to break a given amount of rock that's for sure I would urge going to the statutory limit because the blaster can't exceed that on any day anywhere that he goes in this there's a giant difference between the quarry blast and and a project blast for any project whether it's house foundation or the school foundation the blasting techniques everything about it is different quarry blasts are on the order of 15 to 20 thousand pounds of explosive for a blast so I pulled two of the quarry blasts one from 2019 and the other one today and the 0.05 limit has made them change their their blasting technique I don't know how it's affected their production that's not my concern but they went from a 25,000 pound load down to a 15,000 pound load all of these blasts that we're talking about are Jay I think put it best in his letter they're talking about a pound or a pound and a half at a time if if the vibration seems to be a problem with the 2.0 limit you always have the ability to drop back down and to the question earlier about pre blast surveys for the high school project I was just counting the number of pre pre blast surveys that were done so there was a drainage project on Essex Street where 56 pre blast surveys were done I don't know what distance they were at the time I believe we were at the 250 and I think we extended out the building committee extended out in certain areas where there were concerns which is something that can be done here and for the high school site there were 47 pre blast surveys done the the fire department is the are the people that you would file your complaint with and you want to do it as soon so if there if there was a blast this morning and you felt that cracked your foundation whether you got surveyed or not you want to you want to file your complaint with the fire department because there are time limits so but whether you're pre blast whether you're inside the the 300 foot that they're talking that talking about in the building committee or not if you feel you've been damaged you file a complaint with the fire department they'll investigate they'll forward it off to the state fire marshal's office so that's the procedure on that on the

[Speaker 8] (2:07:35 - 2:07:48)
high school on this building when this building was built did you have complaints from people that were outside the limit mm-hmm how many complaints came from outside and how far were those complaints from that I you

[Speaker 6] (2:07:48 - 2:08:12)
know I don't have all of it with me tonight but anecdotally I mean I know there was there was definitely two that I know of that were outs that were outside of the area and what was so if there were two complaints that had

[Speaker 8] (2:08:12 - 2:08:18)
damaged that was outside of the 250 how was that dealt with later on were they

[Speaker 6] (2:08:18 - 2:08:31)
I don't know how they how the insurance company adjudicated it that we don't we don't see that we we forward them on to the to the marshal's office chief brain

[Speaker 4] (2:08:31 - 2:08:36)
yes how many how many complaints are typically lodged from the average quarry

[Speaker 6] (2:08:36 - 2:09:18)
blast based upon your experience it's actually it's varied over the 42 years I was on the department when I first when I first got on the department in 76 so there's a book on the watch desk and I would say 76 I would say that usually there were four per per blast at the quarry and it kind of diminished over time there was you know it would ebb and flow and then it would probably drop down to you know one or two and I can't speak to what's happened since

[Speaker 4] (2:09:18 - 2:09:32)
sure since I retired but no no understood understood but you're talking about the amount of explosive and the amount of force right that is that is coming from the quarry blast which you stated was 15,000 pounds did I hear that right one

[Speaker 6] (2:09:32 - 2:09:38)
today was 50 I think 15,600 pounds I have the form up there okay and then

[Speaker 4] (2:09:38 - 2:09:47)
we're talking about the amount of explosive material at the Stanley School would be 1,000 of that one and a half pounds of explosive well that's per

[Speaker 6] (2:09:47 - 2:10:56)
hole I mean you know typically I'm looking at the high school project you know they usually took here's one 16 holes but nine seven eight nine got 15 holes probably it varies up and down depending on what they're trying to do but it's not even on the same par with the quarry blasting and with respect to the quarry blasting is the fire department typically got I mean most of the shots right now or that have been occurring at the quarry are being actually shot in Salem so there's no Swampskate detail officer on site it's a Salem firefighter on site but Swampskate still fields the complaints even though it's on the Salem side of the quarry and it you know it it it's kind of interesting that it depends on what the weather conditions are what the cloud cover is and you could have a relatively small shot and we would get more complaints than on a day they shot you know 25,000 pounds and how would

[Speaker 4] (2:10:56 - 2:11:01)
weather impact a blasting at the Stanley School well weather also always makes

[Speaker 6] (2:11:01 - 2:11:53)
the perception or can a low cloud deck and make the perception worse whenever it doesn't affect damage per se but it makes the perception worse because the shockwave bounces off the clouds so the human annoyance factor is higher when the interesting thing there is we typically get calls from further away because it goes up hits the cloud at that angle and comes down further away so we get complaints out of town we fielded complaints from Linfield and all sorts of places over the years so thanks chief thank you yeah also I just want to point out that these are complaints you know I heard that blast it was really loud they're not saying that necessarily they got damaged but there have been incidences from the quarry where they have caused damage and that's

[Speaker 16] (2:11:53 - 2:16:29)
been had to been adjudicated yes sir 36 Orchard Road my son lives right next door at 28 Orchard Road I own a two-family at 41 Orchard Road been in the neighborhood my whole life I want you guys and neighbors to listen to Kevin he does know totally everything about blasting he's totally into it for years he's very very good at blasting I have a lot to lose I have field stone foundations ledge going through my yard my son's yard my back corner the 2.0 and I know you're not gonna like me saying this because I did talk to a lot of people that blast all the time it's a state it's the most regulated industry out there blasting and drilling it's a science kind of for these guys to do we don't want to hold them up and tell them to go 1.0 blasts we want them to get it done it's not about that you're all gonna complain we're all gonna complain there's gonna be damage everyone's gonna have damage definite we're all gonna get it it's gonna happen some it's just about how this hardest rock in the country acts when they're blasting it one person here won't have a problem I might not have a problem three blocks down the road gonna have a problem it's just we're in the hardest part rock in the country still the budget's gonna go through the roof with the contaminated soil I'm still saying we're at 150 million dollars I know everyone says 95 I've said it right from the beginning it's 150 million dollar budget coming up whatever as far as the blasting and what this meeting is tonight I'm not for this I'm for a school not for this huge school but for them building and what they're gonna do the blasting has to be that professional that they're gonna hire unfortunately it's going out to bid and it's gonna be the lowest bidder they have to hire I hope not but it will be max is right on this max is doing a good job and trying to keep on top of everything there's a lot of information that's going for this whole thing as far as this pre-survey they're gonna come through they're gonna put monitors on our houses that are close to this and they're gonna tell us hey you're going too loud this and that that's guy that's blasting it it will get fine just like Kevin said if this shit happens you'll boom he will not do it he knows what he's doing they're drilling these holes they're putting the mats on we want to get this thing done in three months if that's what they think it's going the one o's aren't working properly that blast is made to be drilled a hole which that guy that my cousin was a blast if he is the guy that's drilling the hole and he knows what shot he's doing in these guys have been doing it for years they'll come in and look at it and they're old-timers they'll put their truck right over there they know exactly how much to put in there like Charlie said you're better off sometimes closer to someone's house putting more in because he's trying to split it right there and he knows it can see the rock and how to split it I split and drilled all the rock on Essex Street right across the street when I built the property right over here I saw it and split it you don't want to chip a chipping next to your house for days and days and days and days it doesn't go do shit sorry it doesn't do anything against that rock that chipper it won't move blasting is a better alternative and cheaper than the chipper because the cheap chipper comes in and says yep we're $1,800 a day $2,800 a day and he just sits there when they drill a hole next to it and they go boom it puts a line right next to it so you're all gonna call you're all gonna complain all the people outside 300 feet are gonna get the call something's gonna happen some will some won't they can't tell you that right now at all and I you know the way I feel about this whole school everyone's heard my voice opinions of everything it needs to be more accountability about all the stuff that's going into the school and making it better and not spending as much money on other things in good things and that's all I have to say thank you mr.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:29 - 2:16:46)
do you there's another before you speak mr. Donnie I just there's a Rupert on zoom who hasn't spoken yet so I wanted to recognize Rupert you can make him a panelist

[Speaker 25] (2:16:46 - 2:18:03)
hello friends Rupert Deese 26 Lewis Road and I I actually I just have a technical question I'm fascinated by the you know I'm trying to kind of wrap my head around some of the numbers around it seems like the magnitude of the restriction on the quarry versus the the school site is like you know roughly the same you're like 0.5 and like 2 those are you can compare those to stick a linear scale sorry I'm scientist your scientist I'm prattling hopefully this is not a super boring technical question but I guess what I'm trying to get at is I don't quite have an intuition for how a you know 15,000 pound blast versus a 1.5 pound blast could generate you know a peak particle velocity that is like you know even in the same ballpark and I'm just wondering if somebody can kind of strengthen my intuition there about you know how you know sort of what normally if I'm like thinking about this is you know a thousand times less or ten thousand times less than something I would expect to see a number that's like ten thousand times less and so I'm just trying to build my intuition so hey Rupert's Peter Spellios how are you good thank you I'm

[Speaker 1] (2:18:03 - 2:20:48)
gonna give you because I sat through quite a few meetings when we did the aggregate permit to ask that question so you're asking a really good question so I'm gonna give you the layman I don't know if the kindergarten answer right the five-year-old answer is what I need as well to understand this but I so I think it's two things it's it's it's actually three things it's amount of TNT it's the depth of the hole and it's the distance from the point of feeling so the house right and so it's the combination of those things there's another thing though that was a real game-changer from my understanding which is in the quarry 95% of the blasts in the quarry are on ledges right they're not in the base of the quarry they're on ledges the shelves right they they blast the shelves and thanks to mr. Picarello and others what I learned was on those shelf blasts which are huge the energy has a place to escape right there's one side that there's nothing to it so the energy has a place where it can escape and and and so therefore it behaves much differently than when you're doing a blast in the ground where there's no place for that energy to escape and so so again I'm giving you a bunch of data points but I think hopefully you're following but so here we're talking about you know relatively short depths of holes we're talking very small pounds of explosive in compared to huge magnitudes of explosives with very very deep depths of holes and and so if you remember two summers ago if you were here you might not have there was a summer where there was a large number of blasts that got a lot of people really concerned and like disproportionately concerned it was unusual and that was because that summer they were doing blasts in the base of the quarry not on the shelves because they were trying to get to another level right so they were taking the quarry deeper and so those are things that we just hadn't felt in a long time because it had been many years since they actually had to take the quarry down to another level so for those blasts the energy just had nowhere to escape so even though they all complied with it under 2.0 and as a matter of fact what we found out last year when we did the aggregate permit the reality is 80% of them are below 1.0 right they design 2.0 is where they design the max to but they you know but the those blasts even though they were low felt very strong only because they were you know 80 feet deep charges into bedrock with 25,000 pounds of TNT you know with no place for the energy to go but laterally so I hope that I hope that gives you a little bit more clarity and I probably confused you more than it helped you no no that was actually

[Speaker 25] (2:20:48 - 2:22:07)
extremely clarifying and I if I can trouble with just one sort of follow-up question which is about well I should ask can I trouble with a follow-up question yeah go ahead okay thank you the other question is just about so I think the corollary to that that is that so if you have a very large blast it's like very far away from the nearest residence right you're kind of like you're shooting for a certain level of disturbance at the very at this far boundary whereas with the school project it sounds like we're looking at a small much smaller blast but it's much closer to the boundary and I guess it seems to my intuition suggests that I mean just to simplify things right like let's take the quarry they're blasting the dead middle of the quarry which is large every every person on the side of the quarry is going to feel the same amount of disturbance whatever is like measured in one edge is going to be the everywhere but if we're doing it like small blasts at the edge of the school site my intuition is telling me that there's the the radius like outside of the school area where there's going to be a large PPV is going to be much smaller than the quarry blasts but I'm not sure if my intuition is correct here I just I'm just trying to kind of ground this again against people who either have more expertise or who've sat through more meetings so so I think the

[Speaker 1] (2:22:07 - 2:22:25)
answer to that is maybe Rupert because it depends on the it well it depends on the geologic conditions of the surrounding areas right and so there could be breaks in bedrocks there could be other things that cause the vibrations to be different from one house to the other so but yes I think what you're saying makes sense but it doesn't always play out that way

[Speaker 25] (2:22:26 - 2:22:33)
thanks I mean you know I'm not sure I'm not sure if that's inclusive even for me but I really appreciate you answering the questions so yeah thanks so much

[Speaker 1] (2:22:33 - 2:22:44)
thank you can I just do you mind if I just asked John did I you're the one that frankly is partially responsible for my knowledge so if I said something wrong I feel like I gotta give you a chance to correct me oh it's it's fine

[Speaker 11] (2:22:44 - 2:24:09)
I've tried to take and make people aware that the quarry operation is nothing compared to what's going to happen at Stanley the quarry operation at one point in time in 2019 we're drilling 80 foot holes at the bottom of the quarry to create another level and a sump area all the water to have to collect in the bottom of the quarry so they could pump it out when they did that it was extremely disturbing and we prevented them at that point from drawing any more 80 foot holes the permit states today that they can only go down 50 feet they can drill 40 to 60 holes or 80 holes but they can't go down any more than 50 feet but again they do drill 40 to 60 holes and anyone given blast that's not going to happen at Stanley school we intend to meet with the contractor and the blaster in a public forum for all the neighbors to get together to hear exactly what they plan on doing before it actually happens it's in the permit we want to take and meet with the contractor the residents in a meeting in a forum so that all can hear the same thing and ask this ask as many questions as they want before these the construction and the blaster actually gets to the site thanks

[Speaker 2] (2:24:09 - 2:24:21)
John I think I would like to perhaps take mr. Johnny's comment I think this Cavalero has a comment on zoom and then maybe we can move to board thank you mr.

[Speaker 17] (2:24:21 - 2:25:46)
chairman I just like to address the pre blast survey again and I think chief Breen made a reference to I think it was probably an aggregate they expanded or the high school they expanded the the zone from whatever 250 to 350 living on Orchard Road or living on Orchard Circle we're gonna have truck vibration I'm assuming that at the intersection of Orchard Road or and and and Humphrey Street it's going to be eventually after the end of all of this it's going to be like you know coming from the airport and you're getting to Bell Circle and you're hitting all those bumps because it's it's going to have to happen be that as it may I think it would be fair and perhaps showing really good faith from the town to expand that area because I spent 20 years defending insurance companies and and there were two chances that they're going to entertain any claim that's that the examination of the property is post the blast slim and none they're going to fight they're gonna fight all of them anyway but they're clearly gonna fight anybody who says oh well you know you know that crack that that two-inch crack that now don't runs down my house that wasn't there before you can't prove that so thank you thank you so we're

[Speaker 2] (2:25:46 - 2:26:06)
gonna do this perfect mr. Jello and then the two on zoom and then I think I'd like to move to board or discussion not so you miss Burns you can go ahead yeah sorry three Laurel Road and I would like a commitment from you to limit the

[Speaker 15] (2:26:06 - 2:26:42)
black time of the blasting from say nine o'clock to three o'clock and it would be nice to leave this meeting tonight which is so sobering and a lot of us have been aware of all this going on for a couple of years now and it and I think that's the least you can do is to stop the noise and the harassment for a period during the day so I wondered if you if you could guarantee that you you would

[Speaker 2] (2:26:42 - 2:27:06)
put that stipulation in the plan I think that's up for discussion but my understandings is nine to four is the the hours for blasting correct okay so that's nine to four is how it was what's stated in the permit okay good all right thank you yep mr.

[Speaker 12] (2:27:06 - 2:29:50)
chill oh hi I'm married to chiller where you live at 7 Rockland Street and I'm in precinct for first I want to commend the Iraq committee I've always considered that committee like you have to have a lot of technical knowledge and it's kind of they work tirelessly with not a lot of recognition so my compliments to them to try to help everyone understand this stuff I'd like to just take a help I guess look at the the many competing interests now that in terms of development in this town and with the building of the new elementary school the proposed project at 12 on place etc etc and I'm envisioning a town that's going to have trucks everywhere bringing things everywhere to and from and I I just implore this board and the town administrator and the planning board and the ZBA and everyone else to basically have a planning process that is inclusive of these kinds of things we have two and a half square miles to remind everyone and it's going to impact everyone when I was on the school committee and on the school building committee for the new high school I also was on the school committee when the closing of the Michonne school happened and everyone in this town at some point has to take the burden and it right now it's this the side of town closer to the elementary school in the past it's been where we sit now and in this title town and also the next item that we're going to be hearing tonight is about a development as well as what's being on the board for 12 on place I think it's unfortunate but everybody has to at some point we're all taking turns on how to bear the burden I have empathy for people having to wake up to being blasting I happen not to be in a butter so I appreciate that but I really do appreciate your hard work but I really am just imploring all of you to bring this process as another example of how do we balance competing interests in the town without dividing the town and it's very device it can be very divisive and I don't want it to be divisive we cannot afford that in our town thank you thank

[Speaker 2] (2:29:50 - 2:30:18)
you all right miss Cavallaro on zoom you have another comment please miss Cavallaro not there one more time miss Cavallaro are you do you have a comment

[Speaker 24] (2:30:24 - 2:30:48)
I was wondering if there's any way when the bid goes out whoever is going to be in charge of blasting if there could be something similar to the alerts that we get from the quarry when they're gonna blast so the people that are going to be affected the most and kind of be prepared okay good suggestion thank you

[Speaker 2] (2:30:48 - 2:30:53)
thank you yeah I want to try to just be as sensitive as I can to public comments

[Speaker 21] (2:30:53 - 2:31:16)
so sir if you want to speak please Ted Smith I'm at 19 Laurel Road in the draft permit we talked about the pre-blast surveys they've been two or three comments about extending it and I just wanted to know if we were going to have a clear written thing in the permit that would say what you were actually going

[Speaker 2] (2:31:16 - 2:31:20)
to do I think we're going to talk about probably that's one of them all right I

[Speaker 21] (2:31:20 - 2:31:24)
didn't know if you were gonna talk all right okay yeah all right thank you thank

[Speaker 7] (2:31:25 - 2:31:39)
you just to be just clear in the draft in the permit for the board it already is extended to 300 feet and so I think the word is gonna discuss just what what

[Speaker 2] (2:31:39 - 2:32:04)
extent it should be thanks so before I open it up I just want to mention that I did receive an email comment from Sarah Bronya who just wanted to voice her concern for damages to the home and I'm more concerned about that than the nuisance just as many folks have here tonight and it's like there's one more public

[Speaker 38] (2:32:04 - 2:32:10)
comment and Yvonne is it 300 feet from the hole that there happened in dig

[Speaker 2] (2:32:10 - 2:32:31)
believe it's 300 feet from the site correct boundary of the site the perimeter okay all right so I open it up to board discussion and questions so

[Speaker 8] (2:32:34 - 2:34:25)
this this is overwhelming you know I mean that's the best way to put it it's overwhelming and I I do appreciate what everyone has said and I think that mr. Rosenberg made it from 16 Lewis Road I think he makes a good point that maybe we should take a little bit of time to vote on this and make a decision and it seems like for me extending the parameter is and in my opinion an absolute as far as making sure that it's a wide parameter where people have the option of having the insurance company come in and evaluate your home just to make sure everyone is protected I would like to know more information as far as what happened when we built this high school how far that distance was also what happens with what would a blasting expert say as far as how far we could expect someone to have damage to their home just to have that type of information and then the question about Iraq recommends 1.0 the permit comes in request is for 2.0 and then mr. Dubin made a very good point about really wanting to get this finished right away so you know I just I would need a little bit of time to really process this and you know go back to what mr. Rosenberg said about really knowing what the residents would want for me personally if I live there I probably would want to go with 2.0 and get this done and finished as quickly as possible but I I also I also always need a little time to think about things those are my comments okay do you have any questions

[Speaker 2] (2:34:25 - 2:34:29)
for the team or anything or no I don't think so much it's just my questions

[Speaker 8] (2:34:29 - 2:34:53)
were based on what happened with the high school I just want to I'd like to see some statistics about the high school I'd also like to see statistics from Glover what what happened with that construction Gloucester yeah I think a little bit of info could could protect the neighborhood and get the residents a little bit more comfortable I don't I think that would

[Speaker 22] (2:34:53 - 2:35:20)
be in our best interest okay yeah what are the repercussions to you all like like from a bidding perspective like it's a financial repercussion to the

[Speaker 3] (2:35:20 - 2:36:01)
person we hire that's it well it's it just is an increase in the number of pre-blast surveys so it's the increase in the number of notifications it's an increase in the number of the actual surveys that occur you know all of those things have financial impacts project of this scale it's not it's not a drastic impact I believe we have somebody not to bid on the project no it's not it's not that magnitude of a issue yep max do we have an idea of the number of

[Speaker 4] (2:36:01 - 2:36:07)
pre-blast pre-blast surveys that are currently projected under the under the

[Speaker 3] (2:36:07 - 2:36:20)
300 foot limit yeah we do we have a graphic with that 300 300 feet I've got

[Speaker 4] (2:36:20 - 2:36:39)
44 properties listed and is there any sense of the of the expanded radius what you know if you expanded it 50 feet or 100 feet what you know how many how many additional homes would would be under the pre-blast survey not sure you

[Speaker 7] (2:36:39 - 2:36:43)
can do that on the fly yeah sorry I can't give you an accurate number I don't

[Speaker 4] (2:36:43 - 2:37:21)
want to give you that information yeah and then just about about communication you know would these blasts be happening every day would they be happening at the same time every day kind of whether or not whether or not the limit is 2.0 or 1.0 you know what's the you know what's the communications plan going to be to the neighbors to the you know to the to the to the abutters of the project to those in our entire town you know what's the what's the plan going to be is there is there going to be consistency or is this going to vary day by day so first

[Speaker 5] (2:37:21 - 2:38:24)
and foremost we would notify everybody well in advance with the blasting starting not just a black pre-blast survey but we would have public meetings but as far as the schedule the typical schedule would depend on the blast themselves but it also greatly depends on the geology in the rock formations so ideally I think that they they would typically be trying to do a mid-morning you know or mid-morning you know 10 11 o'clock type blast and then an afternoon blast at 2 or 3 o'clock but it again it greatly depends on the geology of the rock and and what they're hitting and you know if a machine breaks down or you know there's different factors in there so you know there's going to be a relatively regular schedule a morning blast and an afternoon blast might might be the typical again without the contractor on board we can't say that for certain but that's we talked to an individual several individuals about this several contractors and that's what they said that they would that was what they would strive for I have one quick question is

[Speaker 8] (2:38:24 - 2:38:35)
there is would there be any issue that if the quarry is at 0.5 and then this project were at a higher number does that have any effect on anything I don't

[Speaker 1] (2:38:35 - 2:38:48)
think so Mary Ellen I think it's all permits are there's no precedent setting things with permits they're all individually but fact-based so every permit is based on different things I think my concern would could the would

[Speaker 8] (2:38:48 - 2:38:59)
the quarry have any grounds to come back and say we've given 1.0 or 2.0 to this project and we're holding them at 0.5 yeah well I let me say it this way I

[Speaker 1] (2:38:59 - 2:39:15)
assume the quarry is gonna do exactly that but I don't believe it has any prejudicial effect whatsoever it's actually just totally different industry than what they're doing so it's a good question I do expect they would come back and say that because they've made every argument possible to say

[Speaker 4] (2:39:15 - 2:39:30)
that they shouldn't be regulated as they are to us but just to be clear the quarry the quarry is going to operate for an indefinite period of time whereas this project is a short three to six right and then the level of the blasting

[Speaker 8] (2:39:30 - 2:39:35)
is the level and type of blasting is different too so that would be in our

[Speaker 4] (2:39:35 - 2:40:14)
favor yes no I had some questions about the on-site crushing which would you know and just I just kind of you know a lot of a lot of comments have been made regarding regarding trucks and traffic and you know Ken's max can you or someone from the team speak to I guess the reduction of the reduction of traffic as a result of processing ledge on-site and kind of what that what that would look like how many you know how many trips could be could be eliminated

[Speaker 3] (2:40:14 - 2:41:26)
through the on-site processing so you know we can't we can't pinpoint that with complete accuracy at this point but you can get a sense of the impact that crushing on-site will have on the amount of trucking as a as a relative sense so just to kind of put it in perspective rough a little less than half of the material that is pulled off of the site during the earth removal process is is rock ledge so depending on how much of the crush material they can repurpose on the site for the building project which that's the number that we can't pinpoint exactly at this point but saying to say that they they can use a substantial amount of it you're going up to the potential of half of the stuff that's moved up say now I can't say with certainty right now that it's gonna cut the trips in half so that would be the maximum that it could if that gives a

[Speaker 1] (2:41:26 - 2:43:59)
sense of it and it's not just trips taking material off it's chips bring this alternative material back in yeah round trips yep thank you that's all I got so I have a couple of questions before we move on so I guess to John not to put you on the spot but I think that I appreciate max your presentation tonight I do miss the Iraq presentation for these because I think it helps contextualize the process that leads you to here tonight with us which is it goes through the reason we have an earth removal Advisory Committee is because it's made of people who are much more learned and skilled and have invested much more time than we all would naturally have spent doing this and so the permit that we're sitting here tonight is the byproduct of a couple of meetings many hours of public meetings and then many I'm sure with John and others private hours of research and preparing to do these things so and why that's important to me is because this permit if you were we've had earth removal permits all the time before when I say all the time maybe once every couple of years and you might remember 443 Essex Street which is the three building condominium on Essex Street you might remember the middle school Greenwood and you might remember White Court as projects and if I took all three of those permits I will tell you they're less pages than the one we're dealing with tonight and that's a byproduct of the fact that Iraq has taken our process from what I think was a pretty remedial simple process to where we did the best we could to you know to the point where John Piccarello and Tony Bandwitz and Ted Smith's probably could have PhDs and in earth removal at this point because of the time they spend on this stuff but it helps us because we don't we don't know this stuff so John to you you've now seen back when we did the aggregate permit look at aggregates not happy with anything that we did let's be perfectly clear you guys think you have complaints aggregate there isn't a single word in their permit that they're not pissed off about but that permit was based on at the time the town engaged Jay Perkins who was a preeminent you know specialist and consultant and brought in to help us during COVID nonetheless to figure this all out having now seen Jay's letter which didn't come in while Iraq was distributed do you do you yourself I know you can't speak for Iraq because the Iraq's not here but you yourself does that make you feel differently about the 1.0 to the 2.0 I'm just curious as to your your your feeling about that I didn't realize that they

[Speaker 11] (2:43:59 - 2:44:23)
had reached out to Jay and when I was told that they reached out to Jay and they said that he was in favor of the 2.0 I am fully in favor with Jay's expertise in stating that I am fully in favor of changing it to two I you know we put I put the one in there just as a number it should have been a X in parentheses so that we could take and decide what that number should be here

[Speaker 1] (2:44:23 - 2:45:03)
tonight right that helps me and then the I guess to to the team and actually Tony and John in particular I remember when we were going through that aggregate not this past year but the when we did that mid-year permanent amendment when they were doing the shots in the base right and creating so much concern in the community they agreed to do a mid-year amendment if you remember we did two kind of things regarding three bass blast surveys right we said within this radius you automatically were entitled to one and then within a second tier radius we said you can request one right and if you request one you'll get it right do

[Speaker 11] (2:45:03 - 2:45:09)
you happen to remember what radiuses we used I'm gonna guess and say I think it

[Speaker 1] (2:45:09 - 2:45:31)
was 500 I think it was I think it was 500 250 to 500 was the second tier which is anybody within 500 feet could request yeah a survey and then if they request a survey they would get a survey correct I guess so my question is to the design team have you guys looked at alternative radiuses beyond the 300 feet for example have you looked at 400 feet have you looked at 500 feet is my

[Speaker 3] (2:45:31 - 2:46:17)
question to you we have we've we've asked the design team to do graphical representations of what 300 feet looks like and then what 350 feet look like and what 400 feet look like we don't have the full level of detail about all the names and the exact numbers at all of them but I think that that type of a scheme where you know the the baseline is 300 and then expanding it to 500 for the option of it is a is a very reasonable approach without creating an undue burden of just piling on the numbers but but giving everyone the opportunity to have a survey that wants one within that sort of mid-range okay

[Speaker 11] (2:46:17 - 2:46:36)
you know and and at the same time you have to think and remember that there's a certain amount of time that that's going to have to take place before anything happens at the site so the more the further out you go the longer it's going to take to acquire all that information yep thank you

[Speaker 1] (2:46:36 - 2:47:07)
there with me here for a minute right the the I'm sorry that's the best is coming to you guys I'm good with the okay is it too late for one more

[Speaker 36] (2:47:07 - 2:47:31)
question no okay just your name please bill block that 89 nation road is there is there any map that shows what the 300 to 500 foot radius is there is a map

[Speaker 2] (2:47:31 - 2:48:03)
300 yeah the question is instead of a radius can you do is it can you do it by

[Speaker 3] (2:48:03 - 2:48:25)
the street by certain streets I mean I just think the nature of what we're talking about the radius is the most logical way to approach it and we have the ability to pinpoint like who is within the radius but I think it is more arbitrary to do it by streets and more appropriate to do it by a radius

[Speaker 36] (2:48:25 - 2:48:48)
personally that's my well I noticed that Laurel Road is excluded and that only part of Mason Road is included so if you're on up up the street from that then you're not eligible for the pre-survey as as the permit oh that's the

[Speaker 2] (2:48:48 - 2:49:11)
300 the 300 correct so as it is now it was expanded it's likely that some of those areas would be yeah so the one idea would be that the 300 would remain where it's automatic that a survey would happen and then outside a certain distance if requested then you could have you could have one is there any

[Speaker 36] (2:49:11 - 2:49:30)
consideration because of the the ledge that it's going to affect any water flow because a lot of the homes I know on my street have some pups because of water flow and water levels and so forth is the blasting blasting gonna have any

[Speaker 2] (2:49:30 - 2:49:36)
impact on that does anyone want to speak to to the impact that blasting

[Speaker 3] (2:49:36 - 2:50:14)
might have on water I think what we can say generally we we had really extensive discussions of stormwater management through the conservation process and our civil engineer who was actually here on zoom if we needed to give it to them talked extensively about that at conservation and peer reviewer for concom also talked extensively to stormwater and a general theme of it is that our site at the end of the day at the end of this project and our stormwater management at the end of the day at the end of this project is far superior to the stormwater management on that site currently and that's that

[Speaker 36] (2:50:14 - 2:50:18)
that's a easy way to look at it no I'm not talking about I'm talking about

[Speaker 3] (2:50:18 - 2:50:30)
water levels in the ground well it's all ledge everywhere so it's not like we're dealing with ground that has the ability to absorb water of any but if the ledge

[Speaker 36] (2:50:30 - 2:50:54)
is disturbed or cracked it could affect water level I can't really speak to that can the consultant I mean under houses flooding basements those are my

[Speaker 22] (2:50:54 - 2:51:23)
questions okay thank you the plea the pre blasting survey to the 300 foot radius that would be you contacting those folks in that radius and then they allowing you to do the survey it doesn't mean it's automatically going sorry yes they're automatically that they have to allow them to come in to do that survey

[Speaker 2] (2:51:24 - 2:51:35)
correct correct but all of those people will be proactively contact correct you have another question okay

[Speaker 1] (2:51:54 - 2:52:06)
yeah so it is going through the Unitarian Church yes but there is no agreement with the church but there is no but there is no agreement but there

[Speaker 38] (2:52:06 - 2:52:13)
is no agreement with the church I believe they've picked up a check for

[Speaker 1] (2:52:13 - 2:52:44)
$500,000 they already have a check that they deposited for $500,000 well that's that's what the town value to that it's up to them to decide that's not gonna the answer is no there's no agreement with no agreement yeah can I with that do you mind I think at this point given where we are I guess I'd make a motion to close the public hearing so that we can then start deliberating and figure out where we're gonna move on this permit because we have something we have a whole bunch of no I think I hear for a whole nother thing tonight no I

[Speaker 2] (2:52:44 - 2:52:49)
appreciate it is there a second second all those in favor of closing the public

[Speaker 1] (2:52:49 - 2:54:22)
hearing all right so if I can I've tried to use the unlike other situations where we don't have a permit in front of us we're so lucky to have Iraq give us a permit because we can actually track if you will that that dialogue and go with the permit here and so I guess what I wanted to suggest and see where we get to tonight is kind of share our thoughts as to what the permit should say or not say I don't think realistically there's enough things that have to change my suggestion is we've closed the public hearing and so I think what's left is to debate vote and then sign a permit but I'm wondering to the chair if it's possible not knowing exactly what our agenda looks like next Wednesday whether or not what we can do though is look at the revised permit give give feedback to staff tonight for the permit and then get that permit look at it make sure we're comfortable with how that feedback got incorporated in the permit and then we'll take a final vote on the 11th I know we have other stuff so I need you to push back if there's other stuff and we can't do it just because I think that I don't think it can wait much longer but I do think it's worth us talking about some changes making sure they're properly incorporated into the permit so that we're not feeling rushed because it's very hard to draft on the fly here and we've proven time after time to not do it really well and so I'm just wondering if that if schedule wise that works for you and then if my colleagues think that's a viable path anyways to

[Speaker 2] (2:54:22 - 2:54:46)
think about that works yeah I mean I'll bring it back to the board too so we are I mean right now it's really the warrant is what we're discussing next week and there's one other item first one's gonna probably just committee that shouldn't take long and so I think we can reasonably add that add this to the agenda without adding anything else and that should hopefully be okay if

[Speaker 1] (2:54:46 - 2:55:20)
everyone's okay with that okay so so I'm just gonna start and just kind of throw some things out there for people to respond to I do think I would like to they're with me here I'll make sure I have them all together I would like first and foremost I would like there to be a specific claim reporting process outlined in the permit a specific point contact I think just saying call the fire station is not good enough for residents I think the residents deserve mr.

[Speaker 11] (2:55:20 - 2:55:48)
Piccarillo we've suggested that when they do the pre-blast surveys that they include to all the residents a pre a blasting complaint form from the fire department so they don't have to go researching where it is and what have you there was a suggestion made whether they follow through or not that's totally up to the pre-blast survey guys well no it's actually up to us so okay

[Speaker 1] (2:55:48 - 2:56:40)
we'll work on that so I guess so I would like to suggest I guess a couple of things that we do require the pre-blast survey to include a complaint form addressing information so that that is provided to all homeowners that get the pre-blast survey I would like to suggest that we increase the radius is at 300 feet currently from the perimeter and that we allow anyone that those are automatic and anyone within 500 feet can request and I would ask that we that the applicant in this case the town notify those residents within 300 and 300 feet of the availability of those surveys so that they actually know that they're

[Speaker 4] (2:56:40 - 2:56:44)
available if they want them so we would do that via mail certified mail email

[Speaker 1] (2:56:44 - 2:56:50)
phone calls I assume I I don't know about sir I mail I think just mail is

[Speaker 22] (2:56:50 - 2:56:56)
probably fine the 300 feet is already being 300 feet

[Speaker 1] (2:56:56 - 2:58:19)
already automatically going to get it so I guess it's within the three in the 500 I would suggest then that we send them notice and the applicant be responsible for sending notice about the availability of the survey on street sweet sweet Street sweeping I want to suggest that I appreciate the flexibility that the permits trying to do I look at I want to with great clarity make clear who can require the street sweeping to happen and not anyone so I really want it to be not just the project team but frankly I want the I would say to the DPW director or the town administrator or their designee can the language is fine as it is but specifically make clear that the town administrator the DPW director can require street sweeping that way to the extent it's ever raises an issue or there's concern we have a clear person that has clear authority to say do it right John I assume you don't want that responsibility so I didn't include you you do okay you have a fair enough for doing that John I don't remember being in there but you did say that there was going to be a meeting obviously when the blasting contract was on but that's not in the permit is it I

[Speaker 11] (2:58:20 - 2:58:34)
don't think that okay great so if regardless I guess what the language if

[Speaker 1] (2:58:34 - 2:59:01)
we can just make sure the language my suggestion would be to mandate a community meeting with the blaster blasting contractor on board once the blasting contractor this has been selected would that happen as part of our meeting no I wouldn't make that I think that's a community meeting just to talk about the project so I wasn't I personally wasn't thinking it was a select board meeting I don't know that we need to post that per se and can we

[Speaker 22] (2:59:01 - 2:59:05)
require weekly meetings while the blasting is occurring so that you all

[Speaker 1] (2:59:05 - 2:59:18)
can be having conversations so I don't know that so I guess I so what's traditional is that you get weekly updates weekly meetings or maybe much I

[Speaker 22] (2:59:18 - 2:59:34)
don't know you know well I understand the updates are coming from the blasters but I think the communication should go both ways not just coming like how the blast is going but if anybody even just having a zoom time available for half an

[Speaker 8] (2:59:34 - 2:59:38)
hour would you have in the meetings it would be the contractor would be

[Speaker 22] (2:59:38 - 2:59:45)
contractor having the meetings the community would be able to engage during those meetings not just hearing in one direction but actually from the

[Speaker 8] (2:59:45 - 2:59:52)
other direction all right just just to clarify would you want it with the contractor do you want it from a representative of the town no with the

[Speaker 22] (2:59:52 - 2:59:57)
contractor but because that's what you're saying Peter right at the a blasting

[Speaker 1] (2:59:57 - 3:00:00)
meeting occurring I was having I was having one before we started blasting

[Speaker 22] (3:00:00 - 3:00:16)
okay so then I would say at least one meeting during blasting or then the community to come back and have a forum to be heard I mean it's troublesome to wait to the end to hear where the problems were if we could have mitigated

[Speaker 1] (3:00:16 - 3:00:31)
them or fix them all right so I guess what I'm gonna say is I'm just gonna put one no less than one meeting a month while blasting is ongoing with the blasting contractor you're all just either staring at me or not staring at

[Speaker 8] (3:00:31 - 3:00:52)
me and I don't know what that means or is it is it possible if we have a supervisor already would this would this work if we already have a supervisor representing the town that's there could the representative from the town be the one to have have a meeting or have access to the public so they would know listen every Wednesday night I can run over to this point and I can

[Speaker 3] (3:00:52 - 3:01:41)
address concerns that I'm having or I will say that as part of the permit we create contacts that and we basically make the owners project manager available to the to the public so that they can contact the owner's project manager with any concerns I think that the idea of a mandated community milling with the blasting contractor before it starts and then maybe another one like keep it up while it's ongoing right it is a good idea I think you know the community they're they're kind of a big deal right like they take they take some doing and a lot happens so I don't want to be I want to be sensitive to like what that takes to do them but also so so one meeting before and then one then one

[Speaker 1] (3:01:41 - 3:01:53)
meeting during the blasting I guess I would probably say within 30 days of the start of blasting yeah just not have you wait until oh boy look at that I want

[Speaker 21] (3:01:55 - 3:02:04)
I want clarification to public public meeting like public we want to advertise

[Speaker 1] (3:02:04 - 3:02:18)
it we want me like we wanted to be no well you can cut have this place it's not gonna be a select board meeting but we're gonna make it a community development can help with that make sure the neighbors all know what's happening they get notice so they can come to the blaster and ask questions what I was

[Speaker 11] (3:02:18 - 3:02:42)
going to say is one of the requirements of the earth permit is that we have provided with a contact list of all personnel that's responsible for doing the work at the site that list can be published out to the neighbors so that they have access to it as well that list is not available now because we don't know who the contractor and the blaster and the project manager is right when

[Speaker 1] (3:02:42 - 3:04:56)
it's available yep it'll be available be available and then last thing that's on my list of changes relates to the PPV I we went to in such detail back with aggregate about the PPV and there are very very specific reasons why we landed where we did on the PPV for aggregate these types of blasting as much as they are absolutely personal and proximate to this neighborhood they are to every neighborhood for which blasting it was Greenwood it was Essex Street it was White Court and all of which had significant blasting as well it's it's a different type of blasting and I appreciate Doug Dubin's comments about it I appreciate chief greens comments about it as well and I just come down to I think that I I think we have to use the 2.0 and I say that understanding the following which is if you look at the actual data from aggregate industries which we did extensively the reason we got comfortable with 0.5 and admittedly we're trying to put the pressure on aggregate because that is a forever blasting scenario that is not three months that's not six months that's every day forever and as winter seems to dissipate it's now 12 months a year it's used to not be 12 months a year because they closed the quarry but recent winters they haven't even closed the quarry sometime it was designed to match what their actual blasting data showed and to tighten the leash if you will to try and get them down there I think here to have blasting contractor try and then size down everything and take more time and to the aggregates I'm just and given what John just said about his feeling up to seeing J J Perkins recommendation I'm gonna recommend that we have 2.0 as the PPP so those are the changes that I would make totally open for conversation throw others out or different ones out it doesn't matter the goal I think is just to make sure we can walk away with all the comments of that red line of the permit can be given to us by the end of this week so that we have it so we can look at it

[Speaker 4] (3:04:59 - 3:06:05)
no I I like the I like the addition of dub the street sweeping that allows the you know that allows Gino or or Sean to require the streets or thing I I think it's important that we keep you know that we keep our streets in the surrounding areas clean I also support a and you know a an expanded radius and obviously having a specific point person to contact during the pre blast survey is I think a great idea and I moved that recommendation of mr.

Piccarello and you know I came in here originally thinking that I was going to be you know most comfortable with a lower PPV but after but after listening to the recommendations of mr. Piccarello and and mr. Dubin and and chief Marina I'm comfortable with the 2.0 for this specific project I do want to see the other language implemented and that way we can pick this back up next week

[Speaker 22] (3:06:06 - 3:07:02)
thank you all of my concerns were covered by the suggestions that have been made I think one of my biggest concerns is that the community be heard while the blasting is happening which is why I made that suggestion because if there's a chance we could fix it we should be doing that so I'm glad to see that go in also I'm not a blaster I don't I'm you know all I could do is taking the information from people who are much smarter than me on this topic and I feel like I am comfortable with the 2.0 at this time so thank you for all the hard work and information that you gave us and giving it to us at a I appreciate that so I have a concern with the with the radius because I would

[Speaker 8] (3:07:02 - 3:07:44)
rather I'd rather put a number in for the radius once we have some type of a number that would have facts so for example if we said that when we were building the high school we had an issue with the radius that was we didn't we didn't have an issue with anything over 500 feet if the Glover school said we didn't have issues with anything over 500 feet I'd be good with that but not knowing what issues came up during those two types of projects that's that's where I just get hung up on that number and I I just like to have some facts before we put an actual number in there so if we could get some facts over the next couple days that would that would that would help me out and you give an

[Speaker 1] (3:07:44 - 3:07:47)
example of the facts though just I want to make sure that they're facts that we

[Speaker 8] (3:07:47 - 3:08:16)
can actually get so I would I would want to know what the information was from the Glover school I don't know who I would have to find out how do we get that information you know where did the complaints so and also for here for for the problems that we had here with the high school if Kevin received if they received a complaint about a structural damage to somebody's home where was that

[Speaker 1] (3:08:16 - 3:09:33)
how many did we get so what if we can I just make an alternative suggestion I don't think the high school one we're gonna ever find because I'm guessing the records from 15 years ago or plus they're not going to be easily accessible but if they aren't great I mean complaints complaints are there's different calls to a fire department and complaints for property damage are fundamentally different things right and I think Kevin tried to make that point a bit which was majority of the calls that he gets or sorry no longer gets the fire department gets are about that was a big blast it wasn't I have a cracked foundation and so those are different things and so I discerning the difference is important because there are people I feel the quarry right and to call I just I'm wondering if what we do is take the last not quarry operations but take white court take Greenwood and take Essex and those three condos that was a huge I mean you remember that property they took the whole thing down and and maybe look at those to see what complaints came in were they on ledge yeah that's all anywhere there's blasting all yes answer huge blasting all three projects right and just look and get see if we can accumulate the data from those because those are same type of blasting the more recent okay and they're in neighborhoods right maybe that's just right that I'd be good with

[Speaker 6] (3:09:33 - 3:10:11)
that okay yeah all I was all I was gonna say was that we only had two official complaints from the Greenway from what I pulled right that was the closest to the building here there were other complaints were phoned in but only two that when you are you saying complaints or reports of property to a property I'm sorry property damage complaints that somebody filled out the property damage complaint form that went to the state fire marshal's office okay there were only two on the Greenway okay so that went through the whole process I think go ahead sorry and the only other

[Speaker 8] (3:10:11 - 3:10:38)
consideration the only other question I would have is if blast is generally done in the morning and then early afternoon would there be would there any reason to not say I'd like to add in there nine to three nine to three thirty where it stops versus nine to four is you know give a little I mean it sounds like they they don't blast past three o'clock anyway so yeah so I'm I would be open to

[Speaker 1] (3:10:38 - 3:11:04)
going to 330 understand the only caveat and all and there is a caveat language here which John also explained to me is that once they once they set explosive they can't leave it overnight they're gonna do it that's where it gives a little buffer around the edges if some reason they got delayed they they set it up something happened they got delayed they can't go home that night without setting it off so sometimes it is at four o'clock or five o'clock just because they can't leave explosive overnight okay so if we could we could make an

[Speaker 2] (3:11:04 - 3:12:50)
adjustment in there so 330 so I'm similar to Katie I think all my concerns were addressed I'll just say I mean I think getting the data from those other projects is a good idea it does feel like after we had this conversation tonight that every site is different in the way that these blasts behave is different so it feels a bit arbitrary to base a number off of what the the damage was for another project so I I'd also like to know I mean to me 500 is twice 250 which is what is recommended so I'm comfortable with that but if there's a reason from other projects in town to have a different number that's okay but I think that basing the number also off of what is recommended in terms of from a regulatory perspective is is is good so I would be I guess open to recommendations and suggestions based on the information we get from past projects and what the team thinks in that in that way and then I guess I would just say try to be thoughtful when you make that radius if there's you know perhaps we can put language in the permit if we can capture like if there's one outlier resident outside that radius that's right outside the radius maybe we can capture that or you know I know it's a slippery slope but just be thoughtful

[Speaker 1] (3:12:50 - 3:13:45)
of that um there has to be a line somewhere other than that I don't have any I raise one other thing that if I did the warning signal so the permit includes a warning signal which is standard which is again an air horn on site for blasting I think that's a little bit different than what so in the quarry we have an email system that is imperfect but attempts to say hey there's 48-hour notice for a blast aggregate right now here we should anticipate during blasting you should assume every day there's going to be blasting until blasting is done right and so it's not like we can give a I'm just wondering I mean I can't think of what other alarm or signal can we give besides an air horn to do it I guess we have a notify them of the start of blasting and we should be communicating generally so they know how long blasting is gonna last I just I

[Speaker 7] (3:13:45 - 3:14:05)
can't think of something else we do have a we have that technology we can send a text message we can make a phone call residents within a three or five hundred foot radius so we can can you can you confirm let's put that in that a

[Speaker 1] (3:14:05 - 3:14:25)
reverse the town will do a reverse whatever 411 you're recommending in addition to not yeah I'm just are we saying doing it are we doing it on a daily basis when there's blasting what are we doing I'm trying I don't want to set up failure here doing that every day is first of all it's gonna minimize the impact of it if you do it every day well is the idea that the blasting will

[Speaker 22] (3:14:25 - 3:14:39)
begin and then like you're saying it will be consecutive over a period of time then it will stop right yes that would be the expectation once they start they're not gonna then I would seem to me to reason that the first call would be blasting is starting expect blasting until you get a call saying

[Speaker 7] (3:14:39 - 3:16:09)
I think that makes sense I do think it may be an email that lists you know the parameter of the blasting and give you know if that comes out weekly or just kind of helps everybody understand if there's weather events if there's other things that that may impact schedule there's some mindful information that can help residents but let me just also ask who's who's doing these red line changes I've got notes here you're gonna take my changes read them back if you'd like you suggest something then that meets your mindfulness test yep that'd be awesome okay I think I get what you're saying yeah but I also think you know we can work with the project team over the next day or two and really think about how do we put language in here that really does support you know the town we are the town and we have heard concerns from the residents and I do think it makes sense that you know we think critically about this we there's language in here about where we position seismographs how we deal with that I think more specificity with that will give folks confidence that we actually are concerned about vibrations and we are going to monitor them as if we were monitoring aggregate and we're gonna make sure that this project is safe and our residents can turn to us to be their voice in the event that they need advocacy so could I just ask that you have that conversation tomorrow with the

[Speaker 1] (3:16:09 - 3:16:18)
team such that the red line can get to us by end of business Friday just that way we really can't get this on Monday I'm sorry right we deserve it Friday so

[Speaker 7] (3:16:44 - 3:16:56)
the day the blasting company there's a report they they read the seismographs and they issue the fire department gets those reports so can we make that

[Speaker 2] (3:16:56 - 3:17:02)
available on the on the project page on the town website it doesn't it in three

[Speaker 4] (3:17:02 - 3:17:06)
doesn't it say shall be submitted to ERAC every 10 days for you and posting

[Speaker 21] (3:17:06 - 3:17:12)
on the town website it does thanks so what getting all that information that

[Speaker 1] (3:17:12 - 3:17:50)
you've read committee yes don't get all the words from for aggregate right and we're gonna post it on the town website is what the point some on yep okay all right everyone fine with other stuff just keep the moving parts when they oh sorry I and I'm I am okay with 2.0 the goal on the 11th hopefully we're looking at we're coming and say yeah this makes sense maybe we have a brief conversation on the radius but like let's move on correct okay no the

[Speaker 2] (3:17:50 - 3:18:15)
hearing's closed so I think we're all okay we're just moving on to other business I'm sorry we do have to we have to put our heads down and move forward with the next agenda item do people feel like they need to take a couple minutes to break or do you want to just 45 seconds yeah well to a couple minute break and then we'll pick up on the 40 B project all right

[Speaker 32] (3:19:04 - 3:22:02)
you you you you

[Speaker 2] (3:22:24 - 3:26:58)
you you you you you I'll set all right we're back next item our agenda is discussion of impact and comments related to the Atlantic Bay View residences Foster Road Archer Street 40 B proposal I think we have probably on zoom Hayes engineering it looks like they're raising their hand as well as attorney Jason Pano's I don't know if he's here just wake him up evening mr.

[Speaker 13] (3:26:58 - 3:27:23)
chair I am here indeed my name is Jason Pano's for the record practice law at two four six the Massachusetts I'm joined by Tony Cappuccetti from Hayes engineering and that's Masco from SV design good evening that thanks for coming and thank you for

[Speaker 2] (3:27:23 - 3:28:30)
waiting patiently I know it's been a long night for you waiting and it's been a long night for us so we're here to hear your revised proposal for Atlantic Bay View residences you had a previous 40 B proposal that I think was 160 units months ago not sure exactly when the time frame but you revised that proposal and given the time and the purpose of this meeting is really we want to hear from as many residents as possible and give them a chance to to see the revised proposal but also to comment on it so I really am going to keep you to a strict 10-minute limit on your presentation and really want to keep it you know we've we are we understand 40 B pretty well and we understand the site so if you can just really stick to the details of the proposal and what the changes are that'd be helpful and I'm I think probably put you on the clock unless somebody else has anything else to say

[Speaker 13] (3:28:30 - 3:28:58)
about it well actually mr. chair given the late hour if I may suggest that we even limit our discussion to less than 10 minutes give a very brief summary proposal highlighting the differences between that past proposal and the current one before mass housing and then move directly to your questions and theirs if you think that would be best yeah under guys like to see

[Speaker 2] (3:28:58 - 3:29:27)
pictures under 10 minutes is is is within 10 minutes so I think yeah I think that we just like to you can provide sort of overview of the details number of units all of that and then I think and to the board you know I think obviously feel free to make comments but I would like to use discretion and be succinct with our comments and make sure that we're capturing as many resident comments as we can because we'll have a chance to comment in the

[Speaker 13] (3:29:27 - 3:33:22)
letter as well so if you can go ahead please thank you so we're going to start with a brief summary of the differences between the past proposal and the one currently before mass housing obviously we are in the site eligibility phase of this development the matter is before mass housing and you have the ability to provide municipal comments during a municipal comment period which ends on May 15 I believe the previous proposal was for 160 garden style units contained in one five-story building it was a rental development proposal as opposed to the current proposal before mass housing which is for 44 ownership dwellings in I'm sorry 28 two and a half story buildings again 44 units the prior proposal was to practically remove an entire hilltop on that property between Archer Street and Foster Road and this current proposal works better with the site there will be some grading but it will not be as extensive as that which was previously proposed the previous proposal incorporated basically a dead-end driveway with emergency access only to Archer Street this current proposal provides more connectivity between Foster Road neighborhoods and the Archer Street neighborhoods with a through street through the proposed development with curvature that mimics existing roadway networks the development summary proposal if you want to yeah why don't you keep that up Tony because it will track what I'm about to say so the development is located in the a2 zoning district minimum of 20,000 square foot lots the development proposes 44 as I indicated residential dwelling units and 28 buildings there are 12 single-family homes proposed and 16 duplex homes resulting in 32 units there will be zoning compliant two parking spaces provided per unit one garage space and one exterior space and an additional eight visitor spaces provided within the development every effort was made to preserve that existing hilltop and limit the amount of blasting at the site in site work and as I indicated the site layout is designed to mimic existing roadway network and development patterns and scale throughout the entire neighborhood both at Archer in Foster Road and this shows you and I'm going to hand it off to Tony and and pad but this chalk shows you that road network that connects the two neighborhoods and shows you the footprints of each of the buildings the green space the ingress egress on through and from Foster out to Archer and actually in the corner I don't know if you can see the detail the left-hand lower corner shows you some renderings of what the units will look like they're all supposed to be three-bedroom you want to go to the next

[Speaker 39] (3:33:25 - 3:34:56)
we took some of the neighborhood comments the board's comments when we produced the scale the project created a three-road 24 feet of pavement sidewalk on one side tried to provide a house up front there has some connectivity to the neighborhood and the top of the hill in this area here will remain at the same elevation as it is currently we do have to shave the back of the hillside off here to fit these houses in although what we've been waiting to have some discussions and we think we might change some of these units to the garage under units similar to this down here which would bring these backyards up by about eight feet and save some of that work the neighborhood concerns that we we've heard on both sidewalks the project access so now we're connecting Foster Road to Archer Street the previous development was denied due to the right-of-way waiver what the site distances were agreed to be sufficient at that location by both MDM and PEC despite that we're still willing to work with the residents you know one of the suggestions at the sidewalk was a right turn only from the exit and that's something we're willing to entertain on Foster Road and then we looked at some of the driveways of the budding houses and there's a potential to possibly tie them in so they don't have to back out the Foster Road if that was something we thought it would find to be a value

[Speaker 13] (3:34:56 - 3:35:02)
I'll let the project architect talk a little bit about design through the

[Speaker 28] (3:35:02 - 3:37:24)
chair of course you know sure quickly the scale of these buildings are much like the houses of the neighborhood and they and the duplexes allow us as you can see in this rendering as the hill goes up for example we'll get some interest just by the variety of the elevations of the houses in this case this duplex is the two garages what create the duplex but really will feel like two single-family homes on the way this they radiate off the site there's plenty of privacy you think the front porch is that a lot of interest again we're picking up a lot of the details you'll find in the neighborhood in and area in Swampscott none of the buildings I think more than 25 to 30 feet high by your zoning definition at no point even on the steepest part of the site would you look up at the ridge higher than 35 feet so there will be working the height down but when you flip and flop these and change color and texture material it can feel like an interesting neighborhood and not necessarily if you will monotonous this is an example of a single-family house where you can see the garage is set down as the grade goes down and we look at some interesting colors and textures again that one happens to be shingled I think the one on the bottom Tony is a duplex some of the sites we cut when you're going up into a hill the garage would be under and you enter down below and go up to story house above you with a family room where the garage would have been so generally again we're working with the site or with different textures and interest trying to keep these things looking like they fit in the town of Swampscott and as Jason mentioned this three bedrooms two and a half baths one car garage and each of the units plenty of them plenty of windows generally an open floor plan kind of a nice size unit roughly the two main floors of 1500 feet and then depending on whether you have an attic or basement get them at 2,000 square foot 2250 square foot range not large by today's standards but but pretty generous by by most standards of living I'd say with

[Speaker 13] (3:37:24 - 3:37:33)
that we're happy to entertain questions from the board or anyone else okay thank

[Speaker 2] (3:37:33 - 3:37:59)
you I think if you can go to the attendees list I'd like to just if it's okay with the rest of the board to just go right to public comment can you stop stop the screen share please and we have an in-person comment so your name and

[Speaker 35] (3:37:59 - 3:39:35)
address please James Drumheller I live at 5 Archer so right on the corner where the projects gonna be once again I just think it's a great property for the right project but I think it's a crazy overreach once again as you see the images they're fitting as many properties onto a very small lot as they can some of the numbers actually read through the entire proposal buildings per acre nine point one six just to give you an idea of how condensed on top of everything they're gonna be some of the exemptions they asked for zoning normal frontage zoning is 100 feet they asked for 37.8 so they're gonna be pretty compact also current minimum rear setback is 25 feet they're requesting 5 feet I mean that's just incredible to be that close to anything and even the houses that are be right next to me on Archer and there's a rock shelf right there I'm not sure if they're gonna fit between the road and that and just the feel of the neighborhood everything changing and all this for 11 units that will be you know subsidized and I also think just an authentic comment the price they're looking for for these units the sale price they're estimating is eight hundred eighty eight thousand or fifty depending on the size of the unit this is for I mean it'll be a modern unit nice but if you look at comfortable houses in Swampscott you can get a pretty nice house in Swampscott for that price so I don't think they're gonna be selling for anywhere near that so I think it's gonna be another issue for them just want to make my concerns heard appreciate your time thank you guys thanks for coming thanks for your

[Speaker 2] (3:39:35 - 3:39:43)
comments are there any other people in the room who want to comment yeah please

[Speaker 21] (3:39:43 - 3:42:05)
go to the mic if you have comments my name is Kenny Washburn I live on 104 Foster Road and just simply put once again this is not fitting in our neighborhood it's still cramming huh we have a nice middle-class neighborhood I live down the street and I've got 16,000 square feet and I'm just one of the regular houses on the street but it's just cramming too many people in there and it's just starting to really irk me in this town every time there's a square foot or two of green space we got to build a high-rise or something I mean I was stuck in traffic going to stop and shop today and so it's so that's that's that's my main concern also is is the access off of Foster Road is that what I heard or is it off of Archer or both both okay that's been a controversy I won't I won't go into that but it's just you tell me how this is going to benefit this town I want all each one of you to tell me how a project crammed in with however many houses we got is going to benefit this town it's going to benefit these developers that is the only thing that I can see it's going to benefit now build a few houses in there space them out that's fine with me I'm not against any development but it's it's the numbers and the size and the fact that these developers just get away every time with pushing themselves on on us neighbors especially in my end of town which gets a little more beat up than others and I know we should have a little better representation but it doesn't fit it doesn't fit I don't care what they say so that's it thank you

[Speaker 12] (3:42:08 - 3:42:44)
I married to chillow precinct for seven Rockwood Street I have a question for the board how does this fit into our overall housing plan for the town terms of having a plan for the town I understand that under housing the housing choice initiative we're going to be required to have a town plan for housing in general affordable housing so how does this actually fit in respond

[Speaker 1] (3:42:44 - 3:43:22)
to that so it so it has we have a housing production plan already so that's not product pretty specific that's quantity specific needless to say that at three point something percent affordable it's an aggressive plan to get us to where we'll comply it's but the more important thing is it's not even close it's not project specific so this to me is as much a zoning question as anything which is what is appropriate here in this neighborhood for zoning and obviously the 40 B tool is available for developers to use and towns play defense on all the time so I think from my perspective it's more houses so this

[Speaker 12] (3:43:22 - 3:43:30)
could turn into a 40 B this is a 40 B so this they have a as of right well not as

[Speaker 1] (3:43:30 - 3:43:32)
a right there to get a comprehensive permit from the zoning board but it's

[Speaker 12] (3:43:32 - 3:43:38)
very difficult it's difficult to turn it down okay and how far is this from

[Speaker 4] (3:43:38 - 3:43:44)
transportation but it's it's about a mile away from from the MBTA stop from

[Speaker 12] (3:43:44 - 3:44:11)
the from the commuter rail so it doesn't come under the and one-half mile limit in terms of the what is if the new housing choice yeah well we haven't we haven't zoned for that okay so this would have to in terms of timing where how would that fall into timing in terms of doing planning for the housing

[Speaker 1] (3:44:11 - 3:44:35)
choice initiative my guess Mary's that this is going to have no relation it's my guess meaning it's going to increase our percentage of affordable but by how much I don't know what 20 I don't know what the 25% units would do right you can ask them do you guys know what it does for affordable calculations hold on

[Speaker 13] (3:44:35 - 3:44:44)
a second we have 44 units 11 unit to the lab 11 units your affordable housing

[Speaker 12] (3:44:44 - 3:46:32)
so if it's three bedrooms per unit and the new law has allows for obviously three units in terms of the impact on schools and they're designed to have probably up to how many people could live in a house that big but quite a few so is there been any talk about how does this impact busing from that unit from that distance because I is there a bus that goes in from that area so that would require more busing and also the congestion so when you factor in 12 on place if that it becomes fruition and then you start adding this from that side of town I think once again we go into the whole idea of which part of town is getting having the burden of development happening in their neighborhood and again I just keep asking the question please to pay attention to this stuff as a board and to make sure that you know the gentleman there said getting to you know stop and shop when it when that becomes a major trip during the day and access to two things I think you need to it's an issue and it for me it's an issue just in terms of a social justice issue I know for to be is by right but I think all of us should be concerned on how it burdens one part of town at this point and the preponderance of development is now happening in this who knows what other things might come before the board so

[Speaker 2] (3:46:33 - 3:47:25)
that's all thanks and I think it's I mean just briefly important to just reiterate because I don't we didn't say it because I wanted to skip to the presentation but just that in the 40 B process the select board this is really our formal role is to provide a comment letter to mass housing on this eligibility application and that's sort of where our formal role ends as we've discussed on other project applications and then should they be eligible it goes to the ZBA as Peter mentioned so that's one of the reasons that we're want to make sure we capture as many comments as we can as we're putting that letter together because it's due I think on May 16th correct so is there anyone else in yes you can hear me right all right name and address please sure my name is Reggie

[Speaker 10] (3:47:25 - 3:52:45)
Pagan I'm at 60 Foster Road I but for the project is gonna cut on Foster Road they've been trying to develop this well since I've been there I've been there for like 15 years it seems like it's been going on and on and on like we haven't had any peace in our community because you know they keep on trying attempting to develop it and so the neighbors are always we're always like on fight-or-flight kind of feel like it's like what's gonna happen now what what are they gonna do so we haven't been at peace in our community for years and it gets keep it keeps on getting denied because of we have like storm water issues a lot of flooding in that area you know it's gonna it's gonna have a major impact you know on the environment in that area in the neighborhood like he was sharing Ron it's just so congested there and they went from 15 now they want 44 units and fire trucks won't have any access I know there's a problem with access to fire trucks with the 15 units we have a chief here who can speak for us he can he can tell you did you see the picture there where the fire trucks are gonna come and just cutting off on 60 Foster Road that's a very steep hill and I know the chief will share and I was reading the where they cut off you know Bayview they did a they had MDA transportation consultants prepare traffic impact assessment on September 2019 about Foster Road and on that assessment it says they stated that the segment crash rate is well above the district district for average of 3.5 day crashes per MD MT for an urban collector so they even had this done by the transportation you know MDA transportation consultants that even stated it's a very dangerous road imagine having an aerial ladder you know the big aerial ladder fire truck taking a 90-degree turn there I've had a police out of their cars because they bit the pole while they hit the teens that hit the pole the fire truck that night hit the pole as well you know so there's their their safety is you know their their lives you know it's in jeopardy police and fire kind of go down the Foster Road your increment weather and you know we have so much issues with stormwater I know wind takes about 10% what percent does wind take of the stormwater there and everybody who lives on Osher they have to deal with flooding I had my yard flood so imagine them put paving a road there knocking down the house and paving the road that's just water just gonna you know my house is gonna flood even more so so there's so many issues I mean this has been going on for years and it keeps on getting denied I mean people have even sued Peter you know because of you know I don't want to say why but it's you can look it up you know about trying to develop this land and you know police and fire gave their input and he has no respect for what police and fire have said you know how dangerous it is to cut a road off a Foster Road it's disrespecting I don't know you need a mic chief sorry he did speak when we had 15 units and he gave you can read what he submitted and so that I mean it's very disheartening for our community for our neighborhood having to go through this over and over again and it doesn't fit the neighborhood it went for 15 so what 160 now 44 and we know they did the 160 so they can say oh we you know and to a lower number and it just does not fit you can't I can't see an aerial ladder trying to get through that curved road especially on a snowy day that probably hit like houses it looks like I mean I'm a retired firefighter so I'm telling you from a my fire you know from being a firefighter I can't see the aerial ladder even you know in you know the access in that development I mean they had a difficult time with the 15 units like I said and this is more than double I guess just that no thank you thank you and thanks you know I'm sorry that this is there are five people they said if this development is approved they're moving out I'm one of them and it's sad that people are saying that because I everybody knows I speak to the neighbors I just want to encourage them you know you know let's get through this we can we can beat it again you know but it's very discouraging that people say that that I really great community great neighborhood and we can't even enjoy it sorry for crying this is so

[Speaker 2] (3:52:45 - 3:52:51)
discouraging thank you thank you for your comments and I'm sorry that this is

[Speaker 10] (3:52:51 - 3:53:42)
added so much if you guys approve it if it gets approved by Boston by Michael Busby I'm gonna have to speak to him yes because you know they don't know the situation here they're just presenting this project to them and Michael Busby oh we don't really look at the road situation or whatever yes you should look at the road situation you know and we don't have any open space we're the fourth most congested town someone shared in one of the meetings in the whole Massachusetts we don't have any open space yet Peter wherever you are just donate this property to the town you get a big tax deduction and everybody's gonna love you and we know you I know your business like I've heard about your business practices or not to I'm not even gonna go there that's probably a

[Speaker 2] (3:53:42 - 3:54:02)
good place yeah thank you for your comments thank you thank you for saying and sharing your comments oh yeah sorry go ahead and then we're gonna go there's some folks on zoom sorry I just wanted to comment I was just home

[Speaker 34] (3:54:02 - 3:55:41)
and I happened to turn the TV on to this I was like oh my god I have to get up there I'm really concerned about the number of dwellings ma'am could you please name and name an address please Oh Mary Murphy 40 Roy Street we have a lot of children in the neighborhood there they walk to school they get the bus they you know they're riding their bikes and I'm just so concerned about the traffic and the safety issues what I'm really you know concerned about too is we don't have any sidewalks in this part of town we have no sidewalks so the increased traffic you know I'm sure there is going to be some kind of accident or some little kid is gonna you know be out in the street and just I'm just really worried about it and I think just from a traffic concern you would really really really have to double check and triple check safety issues and do something about it if you are really you know if they're really concerned about children in our neighborhoods because I mean we've been after the town to put sidewalks in for I don't know how many years I've had a neighbor who was like in her 90s who had no sidewalk whatsoever I mean the cars drove right up to where she would step down and they put like a little burb or burn or whatever they call it and that does no good but my main concern is traffic and safety and you know my grandchildren so thank you thank

[Speaker 2] (3:55:41 - 3:55:50)
you for going Murphy okay so I see Laura DeVille on zoom if we can make her a

[Speaker 26] (3:55:50 - 3:57:49)
panelist hi Laura hi sorry I had to unmute myself Laura Caradonna DeVille 50 Foster Road I don't know how else to say it I'm disgusted with this whole project situation I've spent hours and hours and hours so having our neighbors of attending meetings over and over and over for two three years it finally got denied when it was supposed to be the 40-something unit the entire board unanimously voted that it was a safety risk coming out of Foster Road there's no way in heck they can have a road let's house got teared down to have a road come down there the entire board voted sorry it's a major risk why because now we're doing a housing project now it's open up the table what happened to the book before I'm saying this is a major risk now if that road comes out onto Foster Road that road is going to come right into my driveway there is no room for a wall a fence nothing I have three cars parked in one driveway and a car parked in front of my garage and if you take the walk down Foster Road I'm at 50 Foster I'm gonna have cars rushing directly into my house then they talked about prior meetings oh no sidewalk don't worry they're gonna walk right across your front lawn which is about ten yards of land how would you like folks walking across your front lawn I'm gonna people stamping because it's no sidewalk I'm gonna have cars directly aiming right at my house this is safety risk we already talked about the police and fire the major accidents why are we opening up 55 Foster Road as an access road when you already unanimously voted that it's a safety risk and these houses aiming right at my house I don't get it not to mention every other concern with the neighborhood can somebody please comment why would you consider having that road come out when the board already voted it's a major safety risk

[Speaker 2] (3:57:49 - 3:58:46)
please respond to my question it's not a question for the select board or is that a question so so this is a 40 B application so we're not we can't approve the project our role in this is to provide comment as we as our role was with the 160 unit application I don't think that it's safe access I don't think anyone on the board thinks that's a good idea to have a road there with the 40 B process they can propose a project and it goes to mass housing for eligibility and if mass housing decides that it's an eligible project then it goes to the Zoning Board of Appeals so that's the process so we aren't approving or considering for approval this project we're hearing comments from people like you so we can comment as a town to mass housing on the project so

[Speaker 26] (3:58:46 - 3:59:19)
I hope it's gonna be clear bold letters that the board of already denied this when it's supposed to be a 16 unit correct and then got denied again so just because it's gonna be affording housing that doesn't mean we take away safety risks not to mention traffic aiming rent my house not even a sidewalk or a little bump in the road to divide the road we have a there's no road from a road going to my house and dividing my park line people stomp across my front line and hit cars aiming at my car how's that gonna fit my safety my home yeah at my bedroom window mr.

[Speaker 2] (3:59:19 - 4:00:22)
B I think it's safe to say that all the members of the select board feel similarly to you crystal-clear yeah and understand and understand and we're we're on the same side as you on that thanks thanks for your comments I think G Sokol I don't know if I'm not sure who that is Galena Galena are you there okay let's try Mitali is it bows Mitali bows hi Mitali oh hi can you guys hear me yes is this Mitali

[Speaker 19] (4:00:28 - 4:03:51)
so the proposed this proposal of making a road access road from Foster Road this road will intersect this this road will open right in front of my house so Laura is my neighbor who's opposite to me and I am right in front of her so the cars will literally will be coming towards my house straight into my driveway if they make the access road to Foster which is going to be very dangerous because it's a it's a downhill slope it's literally down and it's difficult for me even to just get my car out of the garage and take the road up and down during winter during winter if it is not sanded or salted so I don't understand why this is again up for debate I bought this property in 2018 and since then this is this has been such a stressful situation for me that I've been dealing with like it almost makes me regret that I made I made such a big investment and bought a house in this neighborhood because it's just a headache like constantly what is like what does what is the end goal for this like you want to craft this a camp the little town the swans got is not even a big town a little town with more people and that to a property that is completely made out of ledge it is so so much rock there that it's gonna require a lot of a lot of plastic which will affect all the houses we are I'm not I'm not even sure we have that we are 300 yards away we are very close very close to that property so it's gonna affect all our houses if there is blasting to make this project go to get this project going so the concerns the safety of the access road from from foster the blasting the displacement of the wildlife there's so much wildlife we have turkeys we have like we have we have a lot of animals that are that are around in this area and those will be displaced a lot of birds which will be displaced as well but you'll say birds will fly away so you know but still instead of doing getting more population in here what about just changing that property into a little park with the little trail access which would be much more sensible like I don't understand why it has to be a development and put like cramped houses over houses in that little area this is absolutely ridiculous I don't understand the logic behind this it's all it shows is the greed it doesn't it doesn't show anything else it's just greed and money and that's all I am sorry for getting upset but this has been going on from the from the minute I got into this property and I love my house I love my I love my neighbors I love this area but this is getting to the point where it's like I have to think about my future of staying in this neighborhood thank you

[Speaker 2] (4:03:51 - 4:04:25)
for listening to my concerns thank you thank you for voicing your concerns and again it's not a proposal that we consider for approval this is property owners and developers are applying for a 40 B application so reiterate that and I think is is so-called still I think she was okay I think he's on there he's okay sorry can you state your name and address please yes I'm using my wife's

[Speaker 40] (4:04:25 - 4:05:51)
computer that's why it shows getting a so-called but my name is Sergei so-called we're at 82 Foster Road okay I'd like to second the gentleman who was talking about cramming the houses right in and it's the same thought of ruining our neighborhood by making that that portion of the town with the compressed in beyond any sensible levels kind of dwellings and developments in there that will ruin our neighborhood they will that will drop the the the worth of our properties of that in there and it's all done in the name of making a quick buck so yes the owners of the property have all the rights to develop them but not at our expense that's my main thought don't make us the people in the neighborhood waiting for somebody else's game please and then again I would like to second the previous speakers Laura and Nathalie and Reggie about the extreme safety concerns making them thank you thank you mr.

[Speaker 2] (4:05:51 - 4:06:15)
Sokol there's another person on zoom Anna on are you there hi can you hear me yeah oh hi Anna how are you can you say your name's name and address please

[Speaker 37] (4:06:17 - 4:07:50)
18 Nicoll Street I just like to support my neighbors as you can see they're very upset and unsettled about constantly having to deal with possible development right near them my daughter was actually the car that was in the accident on Foster a few years back with her friends and that accident resulted in some police cars hitting her and it was really scary and dangerous and yes there was snow and ice but just under normal circumstances that area on Foster is very dangerous and it could have it could have gone quickly another way and I think all the people in that area that helped her that night we also are dealing with aggregate in our backyards and we're not only dealing with blastings we're dealing with dust and today was just a really bad blast in our area and it's it's to the point where one area a swamp spot is continuously being hit and not understanding how much more we can take in this little part over here and we just want some peace in our neighborhood and we're just asking that you please just push back on this this isn't the right place for it this project doesn't belong here and you know we ask that you just help us out thank you.

[Speaker 2] (4:07:50 - 4:08:02)
Thank you. Next is Ryan Brady. Hi Ryan.

[Speaker 27] (4:08:03 - 4:10:34)
Hi thank you Ryan Brady 6 Archer Street. I just wanted to go on record so our property abuts the proposed access road on Archer and I basically we want to second all of our neighbors opinions here we don't feel like it's that this is the right type of development for this neighborhood and zoning wise it just completely changes our view of the property that we purchased in 2019 I think like when when they did the walkthrough on the last proposal that went through I went out and talked to them at length about some of our drainage issues how we have you know my entire property from from this open space absorbs all of this water and rainwater which then turns to ice in the winter it's unbelievable to think that we would have you know a road an axe you know a primary through way on Archer Street that that goes up up this you know this area where we get so much drainage and and just just that you know those safety concerns alone through these types of you know dangerous seasons that we have I just can't imagine I know that that we've had fire trucks hit hit walls of property along this turn on Archer Street it's so narrow when I pull out of my driveway and even when I'm just passing my neighbors we barely had a chance to even drive drive by each other on these roads like there the there's no way that that it can ever feel that much traffic and there's no there's no way to expand it so I just don't understand how this road could possibly be a true way to a development like this and you know I second the frustrations of of everyone else that said that you know for so many years you know this kind of thing that continues to come up and and now this proposal is going forward and at what point is this like harassment of the community you have people that are you know wanting to now you know leave because we feel like every year there's a new thing right and in at what point it is is enough enough and I think that that's you know something that we should be thinking about in terms of like I don't know what the rules are in terms of a developer that continues to go forward and just tries to manipulate until they get their way but I think that that's something that you know should be considered but

[Speaker 2] (4:10:34 - 4:10:39)
no thank you for your comments and for sharing them at this late hour

[Speaker 20] (4:10:39 - 4:13:55)
Angela Ippolito Angela thank you for taking my taking my call tonight just to refresh the memory of everyone about why the this particular project came to the Planning Board in 2019 they had reapplied to the Zoning Board of Appeals to modify an existing permit for 15 units and to increase it to 22 units they had to modify their access to the site since they could not access the site to move on place they had purchased the house at 54 Foster Road and proposed demolishing that home and creating a new road to connect to a road that was in an old subdivision planned in the site and the Planning Board ultimately denied that because the road was unsafe it's not wide enough they didn't have an adequate sidewalks trucks couldn't pass each other and there are numerous reasons why so that was done under the subdivision control act which is something that is that the Planning Board oversees is not part of our zoning bylaw our local zoning bylaw is the part that the 40 B process can supersede but the subdivision control act is a state statute and the applicant still needs to create roads that are with the access is adequate and we do have guidelines for adequate access so the site plan you're looking at tonight shows two roads that don't exist those roads need to be built and they have to be built through the only way they can get built is not through a site plan process and not through any kind of our zoning regulations they have to be constructed via the subdivision control process and if that isn't the exact process then they have to comply with the exact regulations that create safe accessible roadways there's a there's plenty of public case law on this that anyone can refer to but the way I look at it is the adequacy of the public way at 54 Foster was inadequate a couple of years ago it's still inadequate and Archer Road I can't even speak to because no road exists there and it's a private road there are no sidewalks there's no infrastructure so I can't even speak to that part of it but the access issue is probably the most critical part of the project because there is none so we have to start from zero and as far as the planning board was concerned it was denied several years back so thank you

[Speaker 2] (4:13:55 - 4:14:10)
thank you Angela for your comments okay I don't see anyone else with their hand raised no one else other than David so bring I'll bring it back back to the

[Speaker 4] (4:14:10 - 4:16:04)
board for board comments great David Gershman 55 Samson Road I know this area I live in the neighborhood I understand the dangers of Foster Road in Burpee during ideal weather conditions giving the winding roads and the lack of visibility of oncoming traffic I've seen what happens from a public safety perspective during snow and ice storms on these roads Eureka and Archer narrow streets they can't accommodate two vehicles trying to pass at the same time much less construction vehicles entering and exiting roads are unfortunately not wide enough for public safety vehicles you can't you can't access the site safely this has been previously documented and I feel like we're beating a dead horse here but continuing the road from Foster through Archer does nothing to address the width of the road and does nothing to address public safety period the roads can't accommodate parked cars two-way traffic emergency vehicles it's simply not safe our housing master plan supports housing and developments that can be integrated into neighborhoods that are walkable easily accessible to public transportation and in close proximity to nearby amenities this proposed project as described lacks all the above and with the numbers provided in your application the project simply isn't feasible I think that's important it is not a financially feasible project it's been previously documented that access from Foster Road is unsafe and access through Vaughan Place cannot be used residents of Swampscott myself included support affordable housing however creating affordable housing in a location that lacks safe walkability access to public transportation and accessibility but by public safety and by public safety vehicles simply cannot be ignored by the town as it is being ignored by this developer this project as proposed simply cannot be supported by the town and won't be supported by me thanks

[Speaker 2] (4:16:05 - 4:16:10)
thanks David does anyone else on the board want to share comments or have

[Speaker 1] (4:16:10 - 4:16:51)
any questions I think the biggest unfortunate thing about 40 being there's a lot of things that are unfortunate is that the applicant doesn't have to sit and listen to all this and so I hope that the applicant does go back and listen to all this the fact that this is the second time that the applicant has proposed something that causes such hardship to a neighborhood and that applicant perhaps his home in the Barker lounger listening to it but certainly he's not showing his face and I think 40 B should make the applicant come sit with the community members that they're impacting and look him in the eye if it's such a good idea just look him in the eye for a little bit thanks

[Speaker 8] (4:16:55 - 4:17:00)
anything no I think David really said it all instead of did a good job on that

[Speaker 2] (4:17:01 - 4:18:15)
okay thanks yeah I concur everything that needed to be said was said by the residents who would be most impacted by this project I think we've all voiced our concern about the previous project look I mean this proposal may be less offensive than the previous one but that's because the previous one was so offensive to begin with that it was hard to be more offensive than that I think that these are great comments for us to go with I think the plan the board was that with the previous proposal our plan was that Peter and David were going to work with Margie to write up our comment letter for approval of the board so that I think that didn't happen because that proposal was taken off the table but this one certainly will be going for eligibility so I think if the board agrees that we stick with that plan that David and Peter continue to draft that letter and I guess the question would be do you do we think that there will be a letter for approval on Wednesday the 11th or we can certainly work towards

[Speaker 4] (4:18:15 - 4:18:54)
that goal I think it's I think it's gonna be incredibly important that residents that residents who have responded today you know email email Marzik Alaska their their letters the letters should be drafted to Mike to Michael Busby BUSBY at Mass Housing and comments and comments should be sent to Marzik Alaska and and she will compile those comments and and Peter and myself will will certainly take take a first stab at generating a letter from our from our board that we can certainly then discuss at our next meeting I will

[Speaker 1] (4:18:54 - 4:19:12)
say this I David took me was gracious enough a month ago to walk the property and if you haven't go walk the property it's really go walk the property it's really worth doing and David will take you but now there's poison ivy so you're

[Speaker 8] (4:19:12 - 4:19:19)
on your own residents residents should be writing to Michael yeah yeah so we're

[Speaker 4] (4:19:19 - 4:19:49)
gonna we're gonna compile resident comments so very similar to what to what Reggie and mr. Washburn and and miss Murphy and the other the other commentators you know provided we want as many as many comments and letters written to Mike Busby as possible those will be aggregated through through Marzik and community development and and we will take those comments and then write a write a comprehensive letter where will we be where will we be posting mr.

[Speaker 8] (4:19:50 - 4:19:53)
Busby's contact info well we're not we're not gonna send it to

[Speaker 4] (4:19:53 - 4:20:36)
Mike we're Margie's gonna handle those details she'll aggregate and okay sure thank you Reggie Margie's Margie's email is M Alaska that's M as in Margie g a l a z k a at swamps got ma duck up okay thanks thank you to the project team for

[Speaker 2] (4:20:36 - 4:22:03)
their presentation tonight and for joining us and I think that's all we need to say about that the the can the next on our agenda is the consent agenda consent agenda is designed to expedite the expedite the handling of routine miscellaneous business at the board we can adopt the entire consent agenda with one motion or at the request of any board member we can remove items from the consent agenda if you request it tonight the consent agenda is to vote to make the town of Swampscott website the official posting place for meeting notices as outlined in mass.gov vote to approve minutes of the regular meetings of March 16th April 22nd April 25th of 2022 vote to approve a common VIX license to Andrea's taqueria 646 Humphrey Street unit 6 and a vote to appoint Eleanor Ellie Zambrano to the Affordable Housing Trust three-year term that will expire in June 2025 motion or second okay any discussion all those in favor aye I'm also an aye select board time I bless you no I had a few I had a

[Speaker 4] (4:22:03 - 4:22:38)
few things I went to I attended Earth Day last Sunday and I really just wanted to send a big shout out to the Girl Scouts of Ocean Bay as well as members of the Solid Waste Advisory Committee I thought I thought both provided incredible knowledge and information or for everyone in attendance and those were two that really stood out but I want to thank all the volunteers and I certainly want to bring awareness to pre-registration for hazardous waste pickup which is happening on June 15th details are on the website swamps got

[Speaker 1] (4:22:38 - 4:23:08)
ma.gov thanks thank you I just wanted to say welcome officially to Mary Ellen Katie normally our meetings go to midnight so in celebration of your first yeah it's nice early running out early just to celebrate your first night but we're glad to have you here and if you haven't picked it up on it it takes a lot and so we're really glad that you guys are willing to give to do it because it really takes and we all share a burden and we'll write this letter but

[Speaker 8] (4:23:08 - 4:23:52)
the next one you guys got so I would like to thank the clerk's office and all of the people that worked so hard in putting that election together I mean it's a ton of work people sit there all day long check people in I don't know if we're still checking people out but it it's a lot of work and I personally appreciate it I also appreciate everyone who came out to vote I hope more people will come out to vote and I appreciate everybody that helped me personally sit here tonight so thank you thank you and that's it

[Speaker 2] (4:23:53 - 4:24:48)
awesome I'll just say along the lines of David just I wanted to thank Margie and Danielle and Diane for all their help with our tests and all the other staff who helped with that event I thought it was a great day beautiful sunny day and a lot of people out and it's a good start for hopefully many more events like that community events like that things to come I might suggest that we forego the town administrators report Sean I know you'll be heartbroken I can get over it yeah okay so do I have all right all those in favor aye aye good night good night everyone thank you Joe

[Speaker 4] (4:24:51 - 4:24:51)
you