[Speaker 2] (2:45 - 3:51)
Good evening everyone, I'm Angela Ippolito, planning board, welcome to our August 22nd planning board meeting. Tonight on the agenda we have a pre-application review for the Glover site, but I also want to mention that we had originally scheduled two other petitions on our agenda tonight. It was petition 2211 regarding 8 Dennison Avenue and petition 2202 regarding Zero Lodge Road.

Both of those petitions have been continued to our September meeting. So that being said, we will move ahead with our pre-application review for the Glover site. And I see that we have with us a team from Light It McCall and Max Masco.

I'll let you go ahead, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourselves.

[Speaker 4] (3:52 - 6:25)
Thank you very much. My name is Paul Belden, I'm a attorney in Boston. I'm pleased to work for you, to talk about planning board.

Last time was on Zoom, so it's nice to be here to start and do this in person. We're here to get to the pre-application review. So there's nothing officially before or about a pre-application review contemplated under the bylaw that we are going to be eventually presenting an application in front of you.

Two minutes of introduction, I'm going to pass it right over. There is a new bylaw that was passed by special town meeting last June. That bylaw is similar to, but not exactly the same as the smart growth bylaw, which I know this planning board worked hard on for many, many years.

The new overlay bylaw is a bylaw that provides for a multi-residential development. It does two things. It gives the town of Swampscott all of the, I'll call it mitigation and benefits that came from the smart growth bylaw.

But in a manner that would allow a developer to present an economically feasible project. And the name of the game, I think, both Swampscott and neighboring Marblehead, because this is a project that is on a project site that is in both towns. There's actually a little sliver in the city of Salem, but it's not being developed with any structures on it.

But predominantly the structures are on Swampscott and on Marblehead. It's an important three corners, call it that, for the three municipalities. And there's really an exciting opportunity to do something that will see that property developed in keeping with the way the planning board and the smart growth bylaw wanted to see it developed.

So with that as an introduction, I'm going to turn it over to Bill. And let him tell you a little bit about the applicant.

[Speaker 5] (6:26 - 8:20)
Bill Dawes, cadre of institutional clients as well. This is a project that we're very excited to be involved with. We put this under agreement a couple of years ago.

And obviously have had some dialogue back and forth to get to where we are today. Excited to finally be able to move ahead. I know this is a complicated site.

As Paul says, there's a reason that it hasn't been developed in a very long time, redeveloped in a very long time. And so again, from our perspective, excited to present really a unified project that will be straddling these towns. It will, for all intents and purposes, look to be one project, even though it will be in two towns.

I mean, I defy people to even go out there today and figure out where the town line is between Swampscott and Marblehead. So that will continue to be the case. We are looking for basically a four-story, multifamily residential project, one-bedroom, two-bedroom.

That will get into a lot of the details. Running a parallel process in Marblehead at the same time going through Swampscott. Both projects will be designed kind of quote-unquote as a writer in accordance with the overlay in the case of Swampscott and in the case of the smart growth in the case of Marblehead.

And again, very much looking forward to going through the process, building in Swampscott and hearing feedback and comments from the board and the community. So with that, I will turn it over to Thad to walk through the specifics.

[Speaker 1] (8:22 - 27:57)
Great. I assume you have the drawings in front of you? Okay.

Excellent. Thank you. As was mentioned by both Paul and Bill, the site has a piece in Swampscott, a piece rather in Salem, this larger triangle in Swampscott and a piece in Marblehead, total of about four acres.

And these two buildings are the two buildings that are in Swampscott and there's connected to this one building is what we call an amenity center that has fitness room, gathering space, swimming pool, those kinds of things, a building management maintenance office, those kinds of elements which I'll go through in a minute. In summary, the project, there are 2.28 acres in Swampscott of land that had been previously developed. It's in, as Paul mentioned, the Glover multifamily overlay district with an underlying business one zone.

The portion in Swampscott has 96 residential units, which is 41.6 units per acre, including 17 affordable units, all of which is in full compliance with the Glover multifamily overlay district. The rental units, 40% of them, 40 of them are one bedrooms, it's about 42%, 53 of them are two bedrooms, it's 55% and then there's three, three bedroom units that are in the mix for, again, a total of 96. The building is four stories of 49 feet, nine feet of that roughly is to accommodate a pitched roof on the building to have it sort of fit, feel better in the architecture of Swampscott.

It has 144 residential parking spaces, which is one and a half spaces per unit, again, per the overlay district guidelines. 43 of those are in a parking garage, 101 of them on surface lots, 39 of which are on surface lots that are located in the town of Marblehead. Parking space size is nine by 18 with a 24 foot aisle width and the open space requirement of one square foot of open space per two and a half square feet of gross floor area has been met.

And last, the projects, as Legate McCall has a commitment to, as our company is a very high level of sustainability incorporated in the design and that also shows up in your standards as well. It's not wanting to switch. Try this way.

No, let's do that that way. Thank you for your patience. So the zoning chart here shows minimum lot area required of 10,000.

We currently, you know, we have 99,000 plus lot width, plenty of lot width, frontage, plenty of frontage. None of that is changing. Front setbacks where none are asked for.

We have a 13 foot 8 inch setback at the narrowest point. We have a 20 foot rear side, rear setback where six feet is allowed. Parking is 20 feet off of the lines or 25 feet if it's a residential zone.

All those criteria are met. The 63,000 square feet of open is greater than the 51,700 called for. And our 49 feet building is under the 50 foot allowable.

Density is under the 42 units per acre allowable. And the parking space, we do meet the parking space criteria and there are some accessible spaces and so forth included. In terms of the footprint of the building, it's about, in Swampscott it's about 36,000 square feet of building and about 130,000 square feet of gross floor area.

This unit mix chart just shows how the units, the one, twos, and threes are deployed throughout the building. Basically there are essentially the second, third, and fourth floor of these buildings are essentially uniform and the ground floors vary whether there's parking underneath them or not, which I'll show you in a minute. And then the gross floor areas are summarized by building including 4,000 feet of the amenity building being in Swampscott.

There's a small piece of it, I want to say 700, 800 feet that crossed the line into Marblehead. It's sort of a corner of the commons room. Project benefits, we all read every day about the much, the need for housing in general and of course the need for affordable housing so there's 17 affordable units included.

The property could stand to be revitalized, a little bit derelict. Clearly that will increase your property values, theoretically increasing your real estate tax revenue. And to the extent that there was effort to have an overlay district that looked at the site and had a set of guidelines and standards, we've applied those to this site so you're achieving, I think, the vision that I know Angela and others years back put together for this site.

And lastly, Lady McCall is known for their high quality professional management of their projects. So here's an aerial of the site. You can see here this little piece that's in Salem is essentially pavement.

There's a lot of generous curb cuts here. Parking's a little bit undefined in these areas, scattering of almost sort of three groupings of buildings, you know, the bank, the original restaurant with all of its additions and I think more of a service center for that. So that's, those are the pieces.

You can see the Tedesco Country Club has a bunch of existing trees that are basically sheltering the site. It is, this is lot one, parcel one in Marblehead. It's right on the corner of Marblehead and this is clearly right in that corner crux in Swampscott as well.

This is Sunbeam Street, Lane Road that comes in here that we've aligned with our entrance point. We've got our two entrance points as far away from the corner and the busy corner as we could. So we only have two access points, one way down here right at that corner in Marblehead and then one in Swampscott opposite Sunbeam.

This is the corner as you come with Vinnon Street on your left and Salem Street on your right. For me, someone who comes into Marblehead and Swampscott a fair amount, as you get past sort of all of the commercial and all that activity and make your way through the lights and past the gas stations, I've always noticed that this corner would have this nice sort of relief point of the trees. It's almost park-like and it's almost a nice introduction to both towns and their residential character.

So our design has kind of kept that corner as a bit of a parkland. It almost runs down the length of Vinnon and we have some pretty good landscaping along Salem Street as well. As you're coming up Salem Street, looking back, this is one of those sort of open area parking lots.

The trees have not been properly managed. They're all in various shades of disrepair. We're thinking we'll just almost start again on the landscaping of the site and bring it up uniformly.

This is our site plan. The two buildings, two and three, are in Swampscott. Building two has a ground-level parking garage entered from the, I'll call it the Marblehead end, so there's no parking garage doors facing Salem Street.

You can see the one access point comes in opposite Sunbeam and the exit point in Marblehead right at the corner all the way up on Vinnon. This is going to really prevent, we think, folks from wanting to do the shortcut through the site. It's not, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to take the turn, take the turn, take the turn and come out, we think, and we can probably put in some speed controls if we needed to.

That's how we kept parking interior to the site for the most part, and we screened it along Salem Street where it's a little bit on the road, but it's pretty well screened from view. All of the activity of the site is interior in terms of the car motion and all that, and the outside of the site will feel, you know, relatively passive, a little bit quieter, we think. There's a bus stop located here.

There's really good pedestrian walkway system we've put in to get you across at the various crosswalks to get to the commercial activity, and then each building, all the buildings are connected one to the other with a whole set of pedestrian walkways, so folks that need these buildings have access to this amenity center. This section here is that corner I mentioned before that is essentially remaining as an open green space. So, ground floor plan, as I mentioned, we have parking garage at the ground level in this building, and on-site parking for the rest.

This building on Salem Street has complete ground floor units along that street with some decks and balconies and some patioways here, kind of an interesting landscape strip. I'll show you what that looks like in a minute. And then our amenity building is here, excuse me, has fitness center, has kind of a big community lounge building, toilet, showers, yoga studio with exterior access, another spinning kind of studio, and there's a fair amount of outdoor space here for barbecue and outdoor seating and fire pit, those kinds of elements.

Outdoor terrace here as well. The expectation is with the management office here, the potential tenant might come in and park here and use this center. You can get into this building out of the weather from this building that's along the golf course through this corridor way.

Main entrance is here, main entrance is there. There are pedestrian entrances on either end for folks to come in if they're headed that way. Floor plans above are pretty typical.

The purple are two bedrooms, and the blue are one bedrooms. One rooms are roughly 700 feet, a little under. Two bedrooms are I think around 1100 feet in that range.

So pretty good, you know, sort of meeting the current market size, I would say. We have some light at the end of the tunnel on this building. It would be nice when you get out of that elevator core to have a little bit of light as you come down the hallway.

So these floors basically repeat on either end here, both in the Marblehead side and the Swampscott side, we've added this bay element to add some interest, which you'll see in the rendering in a minute. So as a pedestrian or a driver coming to the site from Vinnins Square, this building on the left is the end of the Marblehead building. This building on the right is the end of one of the Swampscott buildings.

And the guidelines suggested that the sides of the building should not look like sides, but should have windows and be fully articulated, which we've done on all of our buildings. This is a look at the end of that building with Salem Street on your right, and coming off the square, rusticated stone base, heavier material, again sort of per the standards, kind of a shaft of a shingle, natural shingle coloring, and then an attic story, sort of a batten kind of element. Most of the units have balconies, and this secondary entrance is in here.

As you come off of the square, it's almost this sort of sense of arrival through these two buildings into that space with the visitor's center kind of straight ahead of you. Down the other end of this building, with coming out of Tedesco's on your right here, coming down Salem Street toward the square, the staples and all that, is how this building looks along the street. Significant street trees, some delineation of patio space and plantings for some residents with these balconies, and then kind of this continuous strip of green that would run around and turn the corner, and the parking area, reasonably low landscape with other swamps that are building, peering out from behind there.

Similar view. Here you can see, as you come in opposite Sunbeam, how, again, the project starts to reveal itself, the activity that's sort of back in here. Kind of a nice, kind of simple, quiet, visual relief, almost, along this line.

This is coming directly on Sunbeam at the end of the building, with the rest of the street through. Tedesco's trees at the country club are on your right here in this image. Management office and amenity center are located here with this outdoor terrace I mentioned before.

This building is the one that runs along the length of the country club. And another view of this amenity with Marblehead building on your left, the Swampscott-Tedesco building kind of on your right. These two buildings, this one and the one behind us, are set on the street, along the street line as the guidelines suggested, would be preferred with the parking again hidden, more hidden from view.

Another view of the building along Tedesco. And that's generally just for the materials. Again, the stone base, shingle wall, simulated divided light windows, with a black sash, traditional double hungs.

A little hard to see, but there's some stick paneling work happening here. Asphalt shingle roof, mechanical units hidden behind that roof. So you will not see any mechanical equipment from the roof.

And there's a pretty fulsome landscape plan that seeks to create some of these ground level terraces for tenants and define a semi-public area from a private area. These elevations are in your packet, but they list basically what materials are going where, but I pretty much outlined those, including the visitors, amenities building. And then a listing of the materials proposed to be used.

There are some metal roofs, there's the stone base, and the shingle and horizontal channel siding that we're using as a highlight on some of those bays you may have seen. I won't read all of this, but it's basically the site by being already developed. To develop that is certainly a green practice as opposed to finding a greenfield site.

The ability to walk to neighborhood amenities, making it easy to walk and have a bike, even the bus stop. We actually have a reduction of impervious area. We are treating the storm runoff with best management practices.

White roofs and other ways to reduce the heat island effect from what is currently a pretty much paved parking lot area. And then using, generally speaking, drought tolerant, non-invasive, rather native species. And then the building, I think the standards ask to be certifiable lead silver.

We'll meet the stretch energy code probably plus more. Use a continuous extra insulation system. The white roof, roof structurally solar ready.

ERVs, light sensors and the occupancy sensors providing common areas, charging stations for EV. Bike storage, recycling within the building. They do have, there are trash chutes and trash rooms in the building.

There's no trash to be stored on the site. It all comes out of the building from a compactor rolled out in basically two and three cubic yard totes and picked up privately. And then, you know, low VOC paint and other general orientation to green materials are all built in.

So that's the general architecture of the project. This is some of the civil information, existing surveys showing the buildings and how that works with the three sets of buildings as I mentioned. This layout plan has particular dimensions that you might, if you look through the packet you'll see everything is fully laid out and dimensioned.

And the landscape plan, in accordance with the landscape plan, you can see the great number of trees and plants being added to the site to really take away some of the heat ion effect and start it afresh. It's left a little fallow. It's time to bring it back and let it feel like a gateway to both, to the two towns.

The sewer line is coming out, for the project, is coming out onto Salem Street as is some of the drain line. I think the drain sort of split 50-50 between the two sites, but a fair bit of it's coming into the drainage system. I'm expecting our civil engineers going to be discussing all of this with all three communities because some of it may be heading to Salem as well.

And then the landscape plan, which is located here, lists species, size, number, as you would expect that it would. And then there's a lighting plan that basically proves that the lighting that we're using is kept within the site perimeter. So that's a lot of words.

Hopefully some of the pictures helped as well.

[Speaker 6] (28:12 - 28:13)
You're welcome.

[Speaker 2] (28:24 - 28:39)
Anything? The additional studies that you might want to ask for? Site visits?

Design? Any other questions? So I'd like to open that up to board members.

[Speaker 1] (28:48 - 28:51)
This one? I guess that's fine.

[Speaker 3] (28:51 - 28:51)
Is that okay?

[Speaker 1] (28:51 - 28:52)
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 2] (28:59 - 29:02)
I believe those plans were distributed, though.

[Speaker 3] (29:04 - 29:19)
So you kind of ended on the trash note, so I guess I'd pick it up there. So where the trash room is located, and I guess what's Leggett-McCall's plan for compost, for example. That's kind of new to managing buildings around here, so I'd be interested to hear that.

[Speaker 1] (29:21 - 29:52)
I'll take both, and Billy can tell me if I'm promising things I shouldn't. The trash rooms are located basically adjacent to the elevators in both buildings, so it's convenient for tenants. And they include two chutes, a recycling chute and a garbage chute.

And typically we have a composting bin in each of those rooms, and then the composting is picked up regularly. Black Earth, one of those companies, generally does it. So you wonder where it goes from here.

The golf course might want it, I don't know.

[Speaker 3] (29:53 - 30:02)
No, I wasn't wondering that, just how it's collected and shipped off site. It's all not part of the town, right? Right, it's all private.

[Speaker 1] (30:03 - 30:19)
And we've located those trash rooms for the ease of unloading it, but basically they have these person-can-actually-roll-it-dumpster-type things, relatively small, and a truck comes in and tips them up over the top and kind of keeps going.

[Speaker 3] (30:19 - 30:26)
So that circulation is all internal, and the trash truck or whatever comes into the site and picks everything up at the main entrances or whatever?

[Speaker 1] (30:26 - 30:54)
That's correct. Despite this sort of circuitous path here, we have run the fire truck through the site, and that does work for a fire truck, and it'll work for a trash truck, but we did try to make it inconvenient to take the shortcut. I think we probably succeeded in that with cars backing out.

I don't think anybody's going to be racing through this site. Just to avoid lighting up the light. Famous last words, I suppose.

[Speaker 3] (30:54 - 31:10)
The only thing I would add to that is we really, really wanted to discourage it because someone's going to cut through there maybe, right? Like, oh, maybe it is faster. You could do speed tables at the crosswalks, right?

And that would just keep it to five miles an hour.

[Speaker 1] (31:10 - 31:21)
I think that's something that we have a traffic consultant ask what they think, but certainly adding a speed bump or so to the project would seem almost natural.

[Speaker 3] (31:24 - 31:39)
Speaking of trucks, I guess, I had a couple questions about trucks. Same thing with deliveries. There's a mailroom, I assume, in each of these, right?

Same thing, the mail truck will come up, all the FedEx trucks, the million Amazon trucks, they're all going to come through the site this way.

[Speaker 1] (31:39 - 31:50)
Correct. Yeah, that's correct. Part of the strategy was to get all that stuff off of the two public streets, if you will, and move all that activity in board.

[Speaker 3] (31:52 - 32:04)
And then, I don't think this site is far enough away to our town for school buses, but I presume there may be some kids that eventually live here, so I don't know, it would probably be the same thing.

[Speaker 1] (32:04 - 32:19)
Yeah, I don't know if they'd use that or the bus stop that's on Salem Street, but a school bus could certainly make their way through the site. Yeah, it just depends, I guess.

[Speaker 3] (32:24 - 32:43)
And I guess, I'll just keep going. On that bus stop, right? In your sustainability slide, you say, look, bus stop.

Hey, it's just a sign, right? It would be great if there was a bench. It would be great if there was a covering.

I know it's not the highest-frequency bus stop, but people use it.

[Speaker 2] (32:45 - 32:53)
And can't you mention that service was being upgraded? I think there is a main line connection.

[Speaker 3] (32:53 - 33:16)
Potentially, there is a reconfiguration of the bus network. Either this stop gets more buses, or it gets canceled completely. So it depends on what they decide they're going to do, but there's three bus routes through the area.

But this one, you know, it would just be to actually tout that you're transit-oriented in some way. It would be nice to have something for those people.

[Speaker 4] (33:25 - 33:53)
One thing we have to check on that subject is that there is a bus shelter standard that the MBTA requires you to do if you're going to do something like that. So we have to evaluate, you know, those requirements and make sure everything fits and see how much they tend to overbuild those things. But we've got to figure that out.

[Speaker 3] (33:54 - 34:02)
Yeah, I'm thinking like they have a sort of a standard that looks like a modular thing, right? Even to provide just a pad for that to go.

[Speaker 8] (34:07 - 34:12)
Can I ask a question on the bus stop? Can you hear me?

[Speaker 9] (34:12 - 34:12)
Yes.

[Speaker 8] (34:14 - 34:27)
Okay, great. So there's one bus stop there. Is there a second bus stop somewhere around the site going in the other direction?

I'm not super familiar with the direction of the route there and where all the stops are.

[Speaker 3] (34:29 - 34:44)
I think there's not, Dave. I think this is the 441, which goes down Salem Street and then hangs right on Vinan and goes into Marblehead that way. I have to double check that.

[Speaker 7] (34:44 - 34:46)
Does it stop there now?

[Speaker 3] (34:46 - 34:48)
It exists now. It's an existing bus stop?

[Speaker 2] (34:48 - 35:49)
Yeah. That information that you sent me about the potential upgrades to the system, I think it actually marked out where all the stops were in Vinan. And we have some original information too from the study that we did in 2016, that traffic study that was done as part of the Vinan Square study that outlines where a lot of the previous bus stops were.

So we could get an updated, we need to get an updated chart of where all those stops are. But you're correct, Mr. Feldman, that there is definitely a standard for the design of the MBTA bus stops. But they, from what I understand, have collaborated with neighborhoods and developments to kind of work it design-wise into the development.

So hopefully that might be an opportunity there for us.

[Speaker 7] (35:49 - 35:53)
One would presume there's a bus stop for 441 going the other direction.

[Speaker 3] (35:54 - 36:00)
Yeah, it's on the other side of the road. There's a crosswalk that you show on one of your plans. The crosswalk's already there?

It connects it. It's there. It's kind of faded.

[Speaker 1] (36:01 - 36:11)
Yeah, there is one on the far side of Sunbeam from the square, and I have Google Earth open. There is a bus stop on the near side of Sunbeam showing up.

[Speaker 3] (36:12 - 36:14)
And it's just a sign.

[Speaker 1] (36:14 - 36:15)
And it's just a sign.

[Speaker 2] (36:18 - 37:58)
So as this conversation sort of weaves into the whole traffic analysis, that will be very important in terms of how people are going to get in and around the site. We hope to encourage any kind of transit-oriented nature where people don't always have to be taking their cars, and we make it easy and appealing for someone to hop on a bus. We also want to be sure that we make it safe.

So this is the crossing right now in this intersection, the intersection of Vinton Street and Salem Street, and then the whipping around down Sunbeam Lane and up and down Salem Street. It's erratic. And people cross, and they turn, and there's crazy curb cuts, and people are cutting through the gas station to get to the other side and whipping out a staple.

Also, I mean, I think you're probably aware of some of those challenges. Obviously, you'll be doing your own traffic study, and I think that it's my understanding that there have been conversations between our Director of Community Development and the planner in Marblehead to potentially be working out some POV traffic studies as well that would include Swanscot-Marblehead as well as the Loring Avenue development that's just going up right now in Salem. It's my understanding that they just completed a traffic study from that.

So it would make sense for us to be able to solve it.

[Speaker 5] (37:58 - 38:09)
We completed a traffic study, submitted it to Swanscot, and I believe that just Marblehead is prepared to do what we've done.

[Speaker 4] (38:09 - 39:24)
So the NASA's associate, Jeff Zurich, is our traffic consultant who we asked to evaluate this, did a traffic impact assessment. I think you guys probably have seen his work before. I mean, he really is one of the best around.

Marblehead asked us about a third-party review. We think that makes perfect sense. We assume you guys felt the same way.

So we did ask if there was a way for that to be coordinated. The feedback that we got was, yeah, it probably can be coordinated, and I think that they've identified VHB as a review consultant, and VHB has already put together a proposal that I think Bill is ready to sign off on. So by the time we start the formal process with you guys, you should have the benefit of not only the traffic impact assessment done by the NASA, but we probably will have back the review consultant comments.

We've started the public hearing in Marblehead, so they're a little bit ahead of you. So you may actually have both of those by the time we start the process here.

[Speaker 2] (39:27 - 39:34)
So it's my understanding that the meeting that you had with Marblehead on the 9th of August was also a pre-application review.

[Speaker 4] (39:35 - 39:44)
No. We actually submitted our special permit under the Smart Growth Bylaw in Marblehead, so that opened the public hearing process.

[Speaker 2] (39:44 - 39:47)
I see. But there were no votes taken at that?

[Speaker 4] (39:47 - 39:47)
No.

[Speaker 2] (39:47 - 39:51)
I actually was in attendance as well.

[Speaker 4] (39:52 - 40:57)
There were no votes taken. The only thing that we were asked that they concluded was they wanted to have a third-party review of traffic, and we're obviously not presenting civil tonight. We'll bring our civil engineer.

Civil ends up actually being fairly straightforward on this site, and in some ways we're going to show improvements to the existing condition. The amount of impervious is going down. We're going to do stormwater management that doesn't exist.

And, of course, when you develop, you have to develop so that your volume and rate of runoff is no different in the pre-development versus post-development. We're actually going to show you some slight improvements. So the fact that we're going to actually manage stormwater is going to benefit the site.

Civil will go through that when we get to the public hearing stage.

[Speaker 2] (41:06 - 41:33)
So I think what we could do tonight is just discuss, you know, to confirm the fact that we would like to, you know, participate in this collaboration to have a peer review on the traffic. I also recall mention of the utilities, especially the sewer and water coming through Swampscott. Is that correct?

[Speaker 5] (41:33 - 41:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (41:33 - 41:42)
Okay, so we'll be looking at a full utility plan there, and we'll want to have a review on those systems as well.

[Speaker 4] (41:43 - 42:07)
Yes. The civil engineer that's put together the utility connections will go through all of that. And I know that they're talking with the city of Salem as well because they're implicated on some of the items.

So we'll be able to present all that to you guys as well with a complete package.

[Speaker 2] (42:08 - 44:10)
So I understand there were discussions about moving the Marblehead building, kind of spinning it to face the golf course. Have there been any further conversations about that as it would? I had some thoughts on, you know, positioning of the buildings myself, and I understand this is a preliminary plan.

However, I'm sure it's based upon what you feel is going to be the most technically, economically, and whatever other reasons there may be feasible ways to lay out the sites. However, that being said, I think it's worthwhile discussing building placement. And, for example, I thought they made some really good points about, you know, coming down Vinna Street as you're entering into Marblehead and kind of just, you know, seeing that sort of end of the building.

And, you know, basically even though I think there's a nice treatment right there at the corner where there's a lot more green space, essentially you've got, you know, a real sort of blockade of a building on Salem Street and not so bad on Vinna Street simply because Marblehead's building has to be set back from the road because otherwise it would be in Salem. So just kind of wondering, you know, if, you know, I just find it interesting to try to play around with this a bit and wonder if you might want to take advantage of moving that building closer or somehow repositioning it so that there was better golf course use for the Marblehead building. And would it be possible to pull the Salem Street building a little further away from Salem Street?

I say this with full knowledge that we wanted to get a lot of the parking behind the buildings and not sort of right on the street. So just, you know, also very interested in seeing where that could go.

[Speaker 4] (44:11 - 45:55)
So what we're thinking of, well, let me just make as an introduction that, as you would expect, there were iterations. There was a lot, you know, you are seeing a preliminary drawing that is hours and hours and hours of study. And it is beneficial, we think, to the board to see some iterative steps that his group took.

So our plan to respond to the thoughts that came out of the Marblehead meeting, just like tonight, is to share some of that iterative design. We really believe we've come up with the proper layout, but we've gone through that iterative process. You guys haven't.

And it's beneficial for you. And by us going through it again, maybe we'll see something we didn't see before. So we think it's worthwhile.

But the other thing is, you're right, we were very faithful to the design guidelines. Thad knows there are, like, 96 design points, and he had to hit all 96, and it's hard to keep track of 96 design points. But he did it.

And I think at the end, when we show you some perspectives, the original design concepts that both towns had in their bylaws are going to turn out to really create, I think, the type of site you guys want. So we're open to showing you, discussing. We'll show you that iterative process, and I think, Thad, you're working that out, right?

[Speaker 1] (45:55 - 46:08)
I'd say, first of all, the guidelines are really well written. I didn't just follow them because I had to. They were thoughtfully done.

I think they're actually 99, Paul. I hit 96 out of 99. One of them had to do with storefronts, so we didn't have any.

[Speaker 9] (46:08 - 46:09)
Right, right.

[Speaker 1] (46:09 - 48:21)
And a couple of them had to do with trees that I knew didn't make sense to keep. But a couple of things. Buildings on the street, creating that street and space, I think, is an important part.

And that was really emphasized in those standards, and I think it did make sense. We will look at moving the buildings, but as Paul said, these things have been studied long and hard for a long time now. One thing that we think will be helpful, though, and was asked for, is some images at the ground level as you come out of Vinton Square and how you see these buildings.

We have that one right at the corner, but as you sit back and kind of see it all in context, I think you'll appreciate what you do and don't see. When I come from Beverly across the Salem Causeway along the tracks, and there's that Jefferson Station project that when it first got in there, nobody really liked, frankly, I don't think. They have a strip no wider, probably, than the strip we have along Salem Street of trees.

The building's gone. When you go across that causeway, you see this beautiful park of trees. I think that that's what would happen for surely on Vinton and probably to some extent on Salem.

Admittedly, our renderings were architects wanting you to see our beautiful buildings, but we're going to go back and kind of show you more what it looks like when you're in a car or a pedestrian walking along the length of that corridor. I think folks will conclude that we did the right thing. This building number one that's up, a good half of it does look back over toward the golf course with some pretty good views, and the other half looks over the top of the one-story stables.

It's really awfully plenty green back there. I think we've done a reasonably good job of sighting. With that said, we're going to uncover some of our prior studies, and we'll show you what it looks like more in context than maybe what we've shown you so far.

I hope that'll help.

[Speaker 2] (48:23 - 48:45)
One quick comment about wanting the building close to the street. When the guidelines were written, we were writing that for a mixed-use building. The thought was that there would be storefront along there, which necessarily would make it more meaningful.

I understand what you're saying.

[Speaker 1] (48:45 - 49:00)
We did move it back from its original position. We did study squeezing it back off the road as much as we could and still meet the vehicle, the fire truck access, all those other points as well.

[Speaker 2] (49:00 - 49:04)
Anyone else have something to say?

[Speaker 3] (49:04 - 49:09)
I had a thought on that. I don't think we're in 100% agreement about turning the building.

[Speaker 2] (49:09 - 49:10)
Not at all.

[Speaker 3] (49:10 - 49:54)
When I heard that, because it was a big part of the Marblehead meeting, and it was like, okay, I see that. That kind of makes it an even more suburban feeling. I actually appreciate the quasi-street wall you're creating a bit with the buffer.

I just reminded myself of the Jefferson Building. That has a pretty significant landscape buffer and makes the building essentially disappear or fade into the background. It's larger.

Because if you shifted it over there, what you're going to get is a forecourt that's all parking that you see as the entrance to the building. That is really not. That's the rest of it.

[Speaker 2] (49:55 - 50:44)
Right. I guess what I was thinking of, the Marblehead Building is Marblehead's building. I have nothing to say about that.

But the reason it interested me was because I thought if that were to shift, then the one that's on Salem Street is just a touch back. We have that parking and the entryway already on Salem Street, which doesn't really appear anyplace else. To have that kind of open space, the parking visible right there, and then this sort of wall of a building, I thought if there was any way to move that.

That's why I even commented on Marblehead's building.

[Speaker 3] (50:45 - 50:47)
I think they should work together, though.

[Speaker 2] (50:47 - 50:48)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 3] (50:48 - 52:01)
One other thing, sorry, about the landscape between the building and the street is that I would say, as I put my headspace into someone who would be walking through this site, and I thought of as many of the pedestrian connections as I could, and I have a very long list. But the person walking next to Vinton Street or Salem Street, the sidewalks there now in the site plan are pushed all the way up against the road. Like Jefferson Landing, for example, there is that sort of, you call it a horror for a plant, right?

But it's like a five-foot or whatever, three-foot landscape buffer between the sidewalk and the road. Some of the trees are over there. Yeah, right, and some of the plantings are over there.

And that would just make that experience so much more pleasant for someone walking to be slightly less away from a 30- to 45-mile-an-hour practice speed limit, like when people are actually traveling. If the sidewalks could be just stretched inboard, maybe you put some low ground covers there, maybe there's some actual street trees that might serve to even slow the street traffic down a little bit. I think that would make that experience a lot nicer.

[Speaker 5] (52:01 - 52:04)
And that's more on Salem Street because I think Vinton is going to set back a little bit.

[Speaker 3] (52:04 - 52:30)
Yeah, both streets, the sidewalk is right up against the road. You could even, like, pedestrians actually like, there's two things, right? They don't have the desire lines where they're going to walk on your grass, even if they don't have where you're going to go.

But they also like a slightly meandering path a little bit. You have the room on Vinton to do like a 30-foot radius curve back and forth a little bit, right?

[Speaker 5] (52:30 - 52:37)
I think Pat had shown some of those meandering paths on Vinton. Yeah, the corner is lovely, actually.

[Speaker 3] (52:38 - 52:44)
The corner is really nice. But just like you're getting the other street pedestrians in there, too.

[Speaker 1] (52:44 - 53:02)
Yeah, we originally had a path that kind of walked it through this area. You know, almost that a pedestrian didn't have to take the street sidewalk. They could take the meander.

We're talking about putting that back. It could almost be a stone dust material or something that just feels more casual.

[Speaker 4] (53:03 - 53:11)
Pat, could you tell from the civil if the current street sidewalk on Salem Street is in the right of way of the street?

[Speaker 3] (53:12 - 53:14)
That's the tricky thing. I couldn't tell from the property.

[Speaker 4] (53:14 - 53:28)
Yeah, that's why I was asking if you could tell from the civil if it's... We'll touch base with our civil guy, and we'll make sure we understand what we could do with that side. We'll take a look at what the options are with that side.

[Speaker 1] (53:28 - 53:35)
It doesn't quite look, Paul, like there's enough for a strip and a sidewalk, but we can look at it.

[Speaker 4] (53:35 - 53:38)
We'll take a look. We'll see what he comes up with.

[Speaker 1] (53:38 - 53:42)
I agree. It's much nicer to walk on a sidewalk with a buffer strip.

[Speaker 7] (53:42 - 53:45)
So there is a sidewalk on Salem now, right?

[Speaker 1] (53:45 - 53:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (53:46 - 53:48)
Yeah, but it's kind of hard to see with the trees, I guess.

[Speaker 5] (53:49 - 53:53)
It's not very nice right now. And it's overgrown. Trees are overgrown.

[Speaker 7] (53:53 - 53:57)
No, I mean on the picture here. It looks like the grass goes right up to the street.

[Speaker 4] (53:58 - 54:00)
It's hard to see, but it's there.

[Speaker 1] (54:00 - 54:20)
Actually, I'm actually looking at Google Earth again, and I do see a strip and a sidewalk along that part that's closest. I don't know if I can turn myself around. Yeah, it's just so poorly maintained.

[Speaker 4] (54:20 - 54:23)
That may be part of the right-of-way. We have to check that.

[Speaker 7] (54:24 - 54:27)
Go back to the rendering of that Salem Street side.

[Speaker 3] (54:28 - 54:29)
It's rendered as the sidewalk.

[Speaker 1] (54:30 - 54:35)
So, by the way, here's the actual—you can see there's a strip here.

[Speaker 7] (54:36 - 54:40)
And the rendering— It goes up all the way around the corner.

[Speaker 1] (54:40 - 55:02)
Yeah, the wrong way. That's the view. So, theoretically, what you're asking is what happened to our planting strip that runs along here.

Yeah, yeah, gotcha.

[Speaker 4] (55:04 - 55:07)
It's not shown in this rendering. We've got to figure that out. Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (55:08 - 55:11)
Isn't there like a two-foot—that's grass—then four-foot sidewalk?

[Speaker 3] (55:11 - 56:20)
I mean, or larger, right? Like the idea of the meandering path is really lovely. I was down in the seaport this past weekend, and what the seaport does get right in Boston is that occasionally they do have some really wide buffers between the busy roads and the people walking.

We're not going to get that here, but we're going to go three feet? That'd be nice. Yeah.

Yeah. And then the other thing mentioned in the Model Head meeting was like— They put it a different way. I put it my way.

Like, it's the internal planning of the site. Obviously, you have to hit benchmarks for a number of cars and spaces, and I know that— You can tell that, in my opinion, that that is what drove some of the leftover spaces that we're calling open spaces, right? But on the Marblehead meeting, it sounds like there was two spaces per unit, right?

And we have one and a half. Maybe there's some flexibility there. Maybe Marblehead would potentially knock theirs down.

[Speaker 2] (56:20 - 56:24)
I think that was the— That was our takeaway, is that they were— That was the takeaway.

[Speaker 5] (56:24 - 56:30)
They were matching the swamp skip one and a half and creating more of a green space where we have some parking in the middle of the site.

[Speaker 3] (56:31 - 57:11)
Yeah, so they have—of course, they're going to say, Look at the Marblehead side. It'd be great to have some green space. I'm going to say what would be interesting is that appendage lot on the bottom of the site, the plan south— In here?

Yeah, is interesting and is probably the amount you're over and probably a good size for a little parkway or something, right? Like a little playground or whatever, right? There's another opportunity for green space that's over there that's more public-facing than the middle.

I'm thinking public benefit rather than complex benefits. That's my job. So, that's about it.

[Speaker 5] (57:13 - 57:15)
Yeah, or maybe some combination there. It would be a little bit each, right?

[Speaker 1] (57:18 - 57:38)
Yeah, we were— I think they had been anticipating that over here. Yeah, kind of in here. Right.

You know, that it was associated with this whole community, that the community could have an outdoor lawn, place for a tent or gathering, watching, you know, that kind of thing could happen on a lawn, but maybe there's a combo idea.

[Speaker 5] (57:40 - 57:44)
That's where I get to the point that when you're in the middle of the site, you can't tell if it's Marblehead or swamp skip.

[Speaker 3] (57:44 - 57:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (57:45 - 57:53)
You wouldn't know. Whether the green space is technically a Marblehead or swamp skip, it's in the middle of the site, so— That's true. I don't know that it matters, per se.

[Speaker 3] (57:54 - 58:07)
No, I was just trying to think of where it's utilized. You're probably spot on. I was thinking from the view, also from the view from Salem Street, not seeing parking, per se, seeing more trees or something else, right?

[Speaker 1] (58:08 - 58:18)
Yeah, I don't think we've done a good job. I think we have pretty vigorously screened it. I'm not sure that we're depicting it as well as we can.

I'm sure that you'll see that more clearly.

[Speaker 2] (58:24 - 58:26)
Okay, well, one of the other—I'll jump in for a second.

[Speaker 1] (58:26 - 58:27)
Please, yes.

[Speaker 2] (58:28 - 1:00:07)
Then I'll throw it back to you. One of the other comments that has been brought up is—we know the buildings are four stories. That's what they're supposed to be, so they're four-story buildings.

The design of the base, I thought, that's a nice touch. It softens it and so forth. Where the balconies are, there's that very long column that runs up either side of the balcony.

Then on top of that, there's this dormer type of thing. It just has this effect of making it—instead of breaking up the facade, it has the effect of just this soaring line that's going straight up. I don't know if there's a—I'm not the architect of the group, so I don't know if there are different ways to treat that so that it's a little friendlier or a little—it doesn't have that—there's almost like a soaring feeling to it.

In the first story, I like that stone piece of it and so forth, but then it sort of goes way up. The dormer, as opposed to what's over the base, which is all just shed dormer or whatever you call it, shed roof over the base window, the other one, the triangular one over the balconies, just causes it to look very, very tall.

[Speaker 5] (1:00:07 - 1:00:36)
I think that was one of the comments from Marblehead as well. We did it without that to start, and it looked like it needed something, so that's why we put it in. As we said, we're happy to explore and show different themes of what that would look like.

I think it needs something so that you're not left with this, looking at this roof line that doesn't have any break to it.

[Speaker 3] (1:00:37 - 1:00:46)
Actually, do you have that golf course side elevation that you could pull up? Because that one doesn't have it, right? So you get to see the downside.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:47 - 1:00:53)
Yeah, I don't know if you still have elevation from the golf course, but— Just like the architectural one, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:00:53 - 1:00:59)
Yeah. The last page had it. There it is.

There it is. So that roof is super long now, right?

[Speaker 2] (1:00:59 - 1:01:04)
Right. So it's like, which one is— Well, I'm not suggesting that there's nothing there.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:04 - 1:01:04)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:04 - 1:01:18)
I'm just suggesting that to put—that dormer goes up to the very peak of the roof. I don't know if that has to happen. I can't speak to the— Cut it down in size.

Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:01:20 - 1:01:39)
A hip roof was suggested by one of the members of Marblehead. We'll look at some different options, but I do think this is a long—it does need something. For the street sides, but maybe not—again, it doesn't need to be so small.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:39 - 1:01:47)
That view, no one sees. That elevation, you literally—the trees see it, and that's it. So it was okay there, but facing the street, we felt like it needed something.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:48 - 1:01:51)
I will say, it's awesome that you got a lot of balconies in this project.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:51 - 1:01:54)
Like, real balconies. Yeah, they're legitimate balconies.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:54 - 1:02:12)
Yeah, that's great. There was a discussion at the Marblehead meeting, and I think our bylaw adds— it says that the task here doesn't encourage mansard roofs, but there was a comment about the height and disguising that in a mansard-type thing.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:12 - 1:03:10)
Right, and just breaking up the front. I acknowledge that the stone treatment on the bottom, with some sort of arched balconies there, little terraces, as well as the different materials that are used, and breaking it up with the balconies, which I think is an important feature. And it does break at certain spots, where it looks like there's a depth break there.

The concern is just about—I don't know if there's a way to make it look a little more— to just sort of break it up any more, to make it a little more unusual. Is there anything that can get stepped back, stepped forward? Again, just throwing stuff out there.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:11 - 1:03:32)
There's that center bay, we'll call it, between the two gables, right? You have the two-story floor. Is that— In here.

It's above it. I hate to introduce another material, but is it something that is slightly different, and that breaks it up into vertical segments, you know what I mean? I don't know.

Yeah. Something.

[Speaker 4] (1:03:32 - 1:03:42)
I can't tell that because of the tree, but is that center bay that you just circled repeated where the tree is in the center there?

[Speaker 1] (1:03:42 - 1:04:57)
Yeah. And it comes— There's a rhythm of balcony, bay, balcony, bay, and windows are aligned, sort of following the standards. I think it's—we were talking about looking at different ways of treating the roofs on these.

We like that they do break the line. And we—I know the building in Marlboro, because of how the elevator lobby or stair works, it's toward the front, we were able to actually break the roof down at one point on that building so that it was like a half-story. You can look at that here.

I'm not sure that that opportunity exists here. So it kind of is sort of like a little bit down the line of the building, there's a drop break in the roof. There's so many poor examples of trying to hide the fourth floor with these semi— I think that's probably why the guidelines or standards say don't do gambrellas, don't do sheds, because they're hard to execute well in this kind of length and have any efficiency in the building, right, the construction.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:57 - 1:05:02)
And that gable is also serving to screen mechanicals, right?

[Speaker 1] (1:05:03 - 1:05:30)
Yeah, the whole roof is, so that the gable could— I mean, first step is just to try a hip and make it just be a black-shaped hip roof, which sort of works with the corner. We have a corner bay on this corner as well as on the far end. Could we think about that kind of roof, maybe?

[Speaker 2] (1:05:30 - 1:06:15)
It does soften it a bit more. I also thought about that for the building that you talked about that is perpendicular to Salem Street, so not the one that's right on the curve there, but the one that runs along the golf course, because that end of the building, you sort of see this very flat corner that faces the golf course. I wonder if there's a way to kind of just beautify that corner, the right-hand corner of that building, just to soften that.

Again, I don't know how much you're going to see it, but that bay next to the balcony, that's very attractive.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:19 - 1:06:45)
That's good feedback. There may be an opportunity right in this line to break that. Or, as you suggest, a bay element rather than a flat wall at the corner kind of thing.

I think you are going to see this, despite the landscape, I think you are going to see this end up high anyway, maybe not so much down low at the ground level.

[Speaker 2] (1:06:46 - 1:07:29)
I think that would go a long way to making that end of it look a little nicer. In terms of the materials and the color scheme, so I know we have the natural stone. There are many, many buildings in Smolensk that are sort of cream and beige and grayish-beige and color beige.

I just don't know if there's what the... I can't really tell from the slides and so forth what the actual use is. It looks a little darker and I'm not quite sure what the palette is.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:31 - 1:08:26)
I can help you with that a little bit. There's a building on Humphrey Street, I think it might be a single family house, that employs very much this color palette that we really like. I think it might be a single family house.

We're looking at it as part of the other project. I'll see if I can get these pictures next time or I'll get you the address. It has this very crisp, clean look that doesn't feel washed out.

It has some strength to it, but it's also soft at the same time, which is sort of a trick to pull that off. It has black sash. It has a deeper blue, marine blue, taupe-y kind of trim, fairly stark white, and then a natural shingle color.

I'll see if I can find it.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:28 - 1:08:34)
Thank you. I didn't pick up the blue, but I guess now that you mentioned it, I am seeing it more so.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:35 - 1:08:44)
Does that next slide have the colors or is it just the materials? It's hard to see.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:44 - 1:08:47)
I know, it's hard to see. I see what you mean, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:48 - 1:08:52)
I appreciate that. So you would actually use party shingle as well?

[Speaker 1] (1:08:53 - 1:09:06)
It's a swamp scot to me. It does, yeah. For sure.

I think the horizontal slot channel siding feels a little bit boat nautical without being cute as well.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:06 - 1:09:19)
Yeah, I like that too. Okay. Bill, did you have any comments, questions?

No. Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:09:20 - 1:09:39)
No, I think you covered a lot of what I was thinking of in what we were just talking about in terms of breaking up the vertical lines that are kind of framing the balconies. So I'll be curious, kind of, continuing that conversation. But I think that kind of covered a lot of my thoughts.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:41 - 1:14:54)
So one thing that's particularly important to me and I think a lot of other people is the historic nature of the property. So being really familiar with this property, to many, many people who go by there, they're like, well, this thing's just falling apart. It's a dilapidated thing.

But they probably weren't familiar with it in its heyday. And it's quite an amazing bunch of buildings that's been built onto over the years. That original Glover property was actually owned by General Glover, John Glover.

I think he was, in any event, it was his original homestead, which was, neither did he live in Salem, but it would be part of that little area. In any event, over the years, once he moved to Marblehead and built a house there, this particular property was an inn, had a restaurant, and that goes back to the 1700s. So eventually there's a little teahouse building that was there, and when you, I actually have pictures of it, which I'll email everyone after the meeting.

But if you stand at the Bank of America, corner of Bank of America, and you're staring at the building, and you look behind all the, there's an old handicapped ramp, and there's trees, and there's this and that, but if you look at the picture and look, you will see the building. So I'm well aware that there has been a demolition by neglect going on there, that the windows are gone, that weather has gotten in, and roads and floors, I mean, I get it. However, I'm particularly interested in what, because there has been a property there with so much history, for so many years, that's well established, that we're not guessing that was there, but we know.

I don't know what, if any, artifact type of thing might even be salvageable from the building, but beyond that, there might be an opportunity, just as it gets demolished and excavated, to just be able to be mindful of and pay attention to what we may find, which I have a very strong inclination that it will be a really interesting undertaking. That being said, I would like to suggest that we do a tour of the site at some point, you know, over the next several weeks or whenever it may make sense. And I'd like to just be able to, we have quite a bit of history and documentation that's been filed on this property, so gathering that and all the other information I can get in speaking to the planner from the town of Marblehead, I understand from her that she also has done this kind of thing with other communities and was very interested in pursuing this as well.

So that's something that we don't have to go into in any great detail here, but I think there's a really important part that we pay attention to that, and there's some sort of acknowledgement of that, either with a plaque or some sort of a something. I don't know what to suggest at this point, but I'm just kind of throwing it out there. And that would go for the accessory building, which was also part of the inn, and the old Sunbeam Inn was out there.

So those two stone columns that are kind of all messed up with the, had the lanterns on them and so forth, that was part of the original entry to the Sunbeam Inn. I don't know whether there's any opportunity to move those, recreate them down by the new entrance that goes right across from Sunbeam Lane, but I'd love it if you could consider that. Just keep it in the back of your mind.

And I'd be happy to send you some more of the historic information that I think is relevant at this time. I know this is not an archaeological dig, so I'm aware of that, but I think there's some place in between. There's also a sign that said, I think it was General Glover, and it says 1780-something.

I mean, there's some interesting opportunities here for, you know, meaning in the building and that kind of thing.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:55 - 1:15:06)
Yeah, I mean, if there's an opportunity to save artifacts like that, obviously I'd be happy to do that. I'd suggest when we do our site walk, we take a look at some of those things. Getting into the building is a challenge.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:06 - 1:15:10)
I know, we put our muckalucks and some hard hats and so forth.

[Speaker 5] (1:15:11 - 1:15:12)
It doesn't have claws in it.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:12 - 1:15:15)
Right, well, that's why I said, you know, good boots.

[Speaker 5] (1:15:16 - 1:15:20)
Yeah, but I'd say let's discuss that when we walk the site.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:20 - 1:15:21)
That would be great. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:22 - 1:15:35)
I have literally a note right here. Keep old stone food. I didn't know they were part of it then.

They're super cool. They help to, like, anchor the site and realize that it's, like, familiar.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:35 - 1:15:42)
It's familiar, too. I think it's an important, very recognizable feature that's just been there forever.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:43 - 1:15:57)
Yeah, I'd just echo what Andrew said. I don't know how you name your buildings and, you know, whatever you decide to do it, but it would be interesting to somehow think of a way to incorporate some of the history of that. Yeah, a way to incorporate Glover in it would make sense.

[Speaker 5] (1:15:57 - 1:15:59)
Exactly. Keep it fast.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:01 - 1:16:08)
But also, in that little part, right, like that entrance part, you know, can you recognize it there, too, if you're not going to name it?

[Speaker 5] (1:16:08 - 1:16:10)
That could be a good spot to have some recognition.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:11 - 1:16:42)
And, you know, for me, as a math nerd, we've talked a lot about how it's supposed to feel like one site and not two sites. But part of the idiosyncrasy of that is that it's weirdly three town. In the landscaping, can you recognize that with, like, a simple granite curve inlaid with grass or something?

You know, like a benchmark or something, right? They do that at the Greenway. They have a granite inlay where the old store lines.

Straddle three towns in one.

[Speaker 1] (1:16:42 - 1:16:50)
Yeah, just like for you guys to be like, oh, yes, here you go. Curiously, it's right in the middle of that walkway system right there.

[Speaker 2] (1:16:51 - 1:16:53)
Right, it would make it really interesting. I agree.

[Speaker 1] (1:16:53 - 1:16:55)
Something weird there, right?

[Speaker 2] (1:16:55 - 1:17:05)
It kind of adds everything, adds these layers of personality and really could make a big difference in interest, perception, all of it.

[Speaker 4] (1:17:12 - 1:17:16)
So your meeting schedule in September looks like what?

[Speaker 2] (1:17:16 - 1:17:18)
It's the 12th.

[Speaker 4] (1:17:18 - 1:17:28)
And so if we wanted to get our application in so we could actually open a public hearing on the 12th, you're ready for us to do that?

[Speaker 2] (1:17:28 - 1:17:40)
If we have a traffic study to look at, I think we're, you know, and I don't know about, you know, I'd want your civil engineer to, well, you'll have your civil plans ready.

[Speaker 9] (1:17:40 - 1:17:40)
Sure, yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:40 - 1:17:50)
So if we have a complete package that we can look at, I don't see any reason why we couldn't open it on the 12th.

[Speaker 3] (1:17:50 - 1:17:51)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:51 - 1:17:53)
Any other thoughts on that?

[Speaker 3] (1:17:54 - 1:17:56)
I'm fine with that. I'd have to be hired.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:57 - 1:18:01)
That's okay. Dave, any comments on that?

[Speaker 8] (1:18:04 - 1:18:06)
No, sounds good to me. Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:07 - 1:19:00)
I have one more pedestrian comment before we go. Please. I always have those.

I don't have any bike comments because you have bike racks, so I don't have to say my thing. Sorry about that. I dare you to think of that bike.

It's not my purview. It's Marblehead's side. But as I think about someone walking towards Menin Square from Marblehead and say I live actually in the Swampstack building, my opinion is the pedestrian access, someone will just walk across your parking lot.

And that's fine. But maybe there's an opportunity for them to have a dedicated sidewalk around the perimeter somehow to get from the Marblehead side to buildings two and three. So let's take a look at that.

Maybe I misunderstood the plan. But they're not going to walk all the way around. They're going to go right through the parking lot.

And they cut through. And that's fine. But also I'm myself with my one-year-old son.

I don't like walking through parking lots.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:02 - 1:19:06)
I see what you're saying. Okay. Thanks.

I'm done.

[Speaker 2] (1:19:07 - 1:19:35)
So are we in agreement that we want to? I don't think we need to take a vote on it. I think that we're in agreement that we need a hearing you on the traffic.

I don't think there's any doubt there. So I know that Margie and Becky have been in communication. And that's underway.

So that's, I think, something that we would be fully support.

[Speaker 5] (1:19:36 - 1:19:40)
Do you want to schedule a sidewalk after the public hearing? Is that your intent?

[Speaker 2] (1:19:43 - 1:20:02)
That's a good question. I think I'd like to do it before. Yeah.

We can get that organized. I'm sure Margie would help us coordinate something. And I don't know if any of the members from Marblehead were interested or not.

I don't recall anyone saying that. So they might be. I don't know.

[Speaker 5] (1:20:02 - 1:20:06)
Didn't hear a request for that. We could do it all at once.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:06 - 1:20:09)
That would be the easiest thing, wouldn't it?

[Speaker 5] (1:20:10 - 1:20:11)
We'd be fine with that.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:12 - 1:20:22)
Oh, we'd be fine with that. So, yeah. Thank you.

So I don't think I have any other questions.

[Speaker 7] (1:20:23 - 1:20:24)
Do we do public comment?

[Speaker 2] (1:20:25 - 1:20:39)
I don't know that we have anyone here from the public. This is essentially we had, there might be other members of other committees. Melissa, Marissa, pardon me.

Marissa, is there anyone online?

[Speaker 3] (1:20:40 - 1:20:44)
There are people online. So I don't know.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:01 - 1:21:46)
There will be opportunity. At the next meeting and beyond. So if you do have questions, write them down.

You can always send emails to Margie Golaska at the town or Marissa Meaney. And we'll make sure that we address them. Unless you can always come to all the forthcoming meetings.

All right then. So if there are no other questions, then I think we can say thank you. And we'll look forward to scheduling that site visit and seeing you on the call.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:46 - 1:21:47)
Thank you so much.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:47 - 1:21:47)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:48 - 1:21:49)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:50 - 1:22:07)
So we have no other business tonight. Nothing else that's on the agenda. But if there are any things you'd like to discuss.

[Speaker 3] (1:22:11 - 1:22:19)
How are other sort of open initiatives going, updates on what you get from the Senate?

[Speaker 2] (1:22:20 - 1:22:47)
So from what I understand, I don't know that anything has been scheduled at this point. My understanding that they were still looking at the fall. I don't know if Marissa has an update because she's been away for a bit.

Were there any updates on the land use summit?

[Speaker 3] (1:22:50 - 1:22:54)
I better come down here. Good night. Thanks.

Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (1:22:58 - 1:23:17)
Any updates on what? I'm sorry. The land use summit.

No, not to my knowledge. Okay. I haven't heard anything either.

We do have a final, supposedly final update from the state on the free egg.

[Speaker 3] (1:23:17 - 1:23:18)
I heard about that.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:19 - 1:24:03)
And there were a few changes made, some of which affect us. And even though it was, it was considered final guidance, it says check back all the time for updates. I'm like, okay.

So is that, is it final or are there updates? But I think it's going to be a little bit of both. But we also have our timeline pushed up to.

It's actually a year hence. So unless we were a rapid transit location, which we are not rapid transit, has their deadline pushed up to, well, their deadline is still at December, 2023. Ours used to be December, 2023.

It's now December, 2024.

[Speaker 9] (1:24:04 - 1:24:05)
Oh, wow.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:05 - 1:24:25)
So, but we do have to have a plan of action submitted. And I think that's doing December. I gotta go back and look.

I mean, I read through it, but remember all the details, right at the moment. We're also no longer considered a bus community. We're now considered a, what's it?

A train, well, train. What's it?

[Speaker 6] (1:24:25 - 1:24:29)
I think they got rid of bus communities.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:29 - 1:24:30)
They got rid of bus communities.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:30 - 1:24:32)
You're now either train or your subways.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:32 - 1:24:36)
Right. There were trains. There were trains.

And then there were abutting, you know.

[Speaker 3] (1:24:36 - 1:24:42)
And there were abutting. I heard they got rid of some of the abutting towns that didn't have any transit.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:42 - 1:24:43)
Yeah, something like that.

[Speaker 3] (1:24:43 - 1:24:44)
Your Hamilton's or whatever.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:44 - 1:24:49)
Yeah. Well, and then our unit count went from like, theoretically 1,261.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:49 - 1:25:49)
Right, to 900 and so on. So, yeah. And, and it also gave us the ability to break up the zone a little more.

So, so yeah, it was, you know, in all in all, I, I felt it was, you know, just at first glance, I can't say that I sat and studied everything. I read through it, but I felt that it was overall a, an improvement for us. And also gave us a little more breathing room.

Although we do need to put into our schedule through the plan that, and I think it's a plan of action, essentially. That would sort of summarize what, how we were planning to accomplish this and that, that type of thing. And what we already have that actually meets the criteria.

So it allows you to kind of build upon that. Which makes a lot of sense.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:50 - 1:26:01)
And so for that, we used the grant money that we required for the land use summit. Is that what I'm remembering? So, but we would be pursuing another grant to help us with this other work.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:02 - 1:27:28)
Right. There was a grant that we were going to use the, I think it was 15,000, something like that to, for technical support with this. So I believe that's still the plan.

I haven't had a chance to talk to Marzi about that, but, we can, we'll connect and make sure we have an update soon. I'm sure she'll send out a message to everybody and let you know what the plan is. Let's see, as far as everything else goes to the ADUs.

I haven't heard anything else about Hadley. I believe there was a plan out to hire, or the RFQ or RFP, whatever. It's an RFQ.

One of the other was, it was being put together for the, some kind of a design firm, a landscape design firm for the Hawthorne property. So that's just to see who would be the right type of fit, if you were going to hire someone to look at it and say, here's a, do the community engagement, find out what people really want to see there, how much of it should be park or used or not, and then come up with some design. So that I believe is still in process.

So I need updates on all that stuff.

[Speaker 6] (1:27:30 - 1:27:37)
And I think they were going to put out another, an RFP or RFP or something for Hadley at some point this fall.

[Speaker 2] (1:27:37 - 1:27:38)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:27:38 - 1:27:48)
That's what I recall them saying at one of their meetings that they would revisit it. Is that an RFP for a developer? I don't recall the specifics.

[Speaker 2] (1:27:49 - 1:28:11)
It was interesting because when we, at the end of the, of the Hadley project, there were, you know, there were several suggestions about, you know, they came to the conclusions that these were the one, two, three things that made the most sense. And, but there wasn't kind of, this is what it's going to be. So I'm not quite sure how that, how that goes.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:11 - 1:28:15)
I said, yeah, it was RFI. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:15 - 1:28:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:15 - 1:28:28)
I guess I just wondering, who are they asking for planning one? Is it early on the stage where we're asking for development proposals? Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:28 - 1:29:00)
So we'll get some clarity on that. Okay. Anything else?

Yeah. Okay. If there's nothing else, we can have a motion to adjourn.

Second. All in favor. Thank you.

Thank you, Marissa. Thank you to our tech support back there. Thanks.

Thank you very much. And good night, everyone. Good night, Dave.