[Speaker 1] (2:38 - 2:40)
Recording in progress.

[Speaker 3] (2:43 - 2:57)
All set? All right, welcome everybody to the August 24th Select Board meeting. Before we get started, if you'll join me in rising for the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Speaker 1] (3:07 - 3:17)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (3:17 - 4:54)
Thank you. So, to start off, I'm going to go a little bit out of order. We're going to skip public comment right now and go straight to some citizen citations that we have.

There are a couple citations listed here. We're only doing ones for the Girl Scouts. So, without further ado, we are very excited to have Amelia Crehan, Audrey Hale, and Sarah Pascovich here with us.

We are awarding them with official citations of appreciation from the town for their work on a bronze award project that they did. An ocean pollution project of cleaning up Fisherman's Beach and not just cleaning it up, but also educating the public and hopefully instilling some good citizenship for all residents to keep that beach clean. So, I welcome you all here and would love to hear about your project.

If you want to come to this mic here and just let us know a little bit about the project and what you all did, that would be great. So, what's the bucket all about?

[Speaker 10] (4:54 - 5:23)
So, it's like a bucket that hangs on the fence so that you can pick up trash while you're on the beach. It has little holes in the bottom so that sand goes through, but the trash doesn't. And you dump in the trash in the bucket and you put it back on the bucket.

[Speaker 9] (5:26 - 5:50)
So, yeah, we put these up so that people at Fisherman's Beach can just, like if they see trash and they want to help the environment, they can just pick up the trash, put it in the bucket, and then dump it out and hang it back on the fence. So, we're hoping lots of people will use this to prevent lots of trash on the beaches.

[Speaker 12] (6:10 - 6:26)
We chose to do this project because on the beach, you would always see a bunch of trash just lying around. And we don't like seeing that, so we want it to be picked up and our beaches to be clean.

[Speaker 3] (6:31 - 6:36)
And where are the buckets on Fisherman's Beach so people know, like, where can they find them?

[Speaker 10] (6:38 - 6:50)
Got it.

[Speaker 3] (6:51 - 6:55)
And have you seen people using them at all this summer? Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (6:56 - 7:10)
Yeah, I've seen everyone, and our friends actually said that they used it.

[Speaker 1] (7:18 - 7:24)
Of course.

[Speaker 3] (7:25 - 7:57)
I think it's such a great idea because we always do, like, you know, there's often sort of beach cleanup days and sort of one-off days where we're cleaning up certain areas of town. But the idea of sort of cleaning up the beach, but then, you know, having these buckets available and encouraging other people to think about it and to do it is a much more lasting way to think about it and to sort of pass it on. I think it's just such an awesome idea, and thank you guys for all the work that you did on this.

[Speaker 4] (8:02 - 8:49)
Can I just ask a quick question? Yeah. Can you tell us what a bronze award is?

Because it seems like this is pretty serious, and what would be the next step? So do you all come up with this idea, or do your parents give you the idea, or is this on your own? Do you come up with this on your own?

[Speaker 14] (9:00 - 9:01)
Good for you.

[Speaker 5] (9:03 - 9:28)
Ladies, I just want to thank you for making our town a better place to live and a cleaner place to enjoy. Certainly, our waterfront is paramount, and one of the reasons that a lot of us live here is to have enjoyable, clean waterfront. Just curious if there were plans to expand this concept, this idea, to other beaches in town.

[Speaker 15] (9:34 - 9:35)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (9:37 - 13:05)
Any other questions or comments? All right, well, I am pleased to present you with these official citations of appreciation from the town of Swampscott in recognition of your Girl Scout Bronze Award for your hard work and dedication working on the Ocean Pollution Project. Keep them coming.

Hopefully this inspires them. Thanks, ladies. All right, so moving on, we're going to move to public comment.

Before we move to public comment, I just want to remind people public comment is an opportunity for members of the public to express their opinions on items both on and off the official agenda, but public comment is not intended to be a discussion, debate, or dialogue between or among the select board and residents. Before taking public comment, I'd like to go over some of the guidelines and expectations. Before speaking, we ask that individuals state their name, address, and if known, vote or precinct.

Comments will be limited to three minutes per speaker, and the public comment period will be no longer than 15 minutes. Commenters should direct their comments to the chair. If commenters wish to speak about personnel matters, we ask that they reach out to the town administrator outside of the public meeting.

Remarks should be respectful and courteous, and speakers should refrain from attacking or disparaging any individuals or groups, including town staff, the select board, and other boards and committees. Absent a need for clarification or extraordinary circumstances, neither the select board nor staff will respond to public comment. If there is a response, it will be communicated in a professional, respectful, and courteous manner.

Having said that, I will take public comment. Mr. Demento.

[Speaker 7] (13:18 - 16:03)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. William Demento, 1008 Paradise Road, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 6. Tonight I have two comments.

The first is a demand for a public apology from this board for the violation of the public trust when you voted to spend $358,750 in American Rescue Plan dollars, claiming the money is to be a reward for employees for service above and beyond normal duties. I did listen to the tape of the selectmen's meeting where the grant was made for non-union employees. This board then tried to justify the $7,500 payments to a few and the $5,000 payments to a few while granting nothing whatsoever to worthy employees and some former employees but rewarding part-timers and favored former public employees.

It was wrong, and you know it was wrong. You owe us an apology. My second comment is it's high time you started allowing public input on important issues.

And your comments at the introduction on the guidelines is a good example of no public involvement. Issues such as how to spend ARPA funds is a good example. Maybe public comment could have saved you from embarrassing yourselves the way you did with this fiasco.

Not one of the five of you have apologized to the public for the mistake you made in the inequitable distribution of this money, claiming it was premium pay. On this sheet provided from a public relations request that took beyond the 10 days for me to get, the word premium pay is not on there. CBA, meaning collective bargaining agreements, is all over it.

And selectmen's votes. It's wrong, and the public could have saved you from this embarrassment. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (16:03 - 17:17)
Thank you, Mr. Bento. Any other public comment? If people have public comment that I meant to mention at the beginning, if people have public comment who are watching on Zoom, they can e-mail public comment to me at nduffy, d-u-f-f-y, at swamps.ma.gov. And you can also raise your hand on Zoom. I don't see any hands raised and not seeing anything in my e-mail. So with that, we're going to move on to some committee appointments and reappointments that we have. In your packet, you have some recommended appointments and reappointments for, I believe, the Commission on Disability, Conservation Commission, Hadley Reuse Advisory, Historic District Commission, Open Space and Recreation, Recreation Commission, Renewable Energy Traffic Study Advisory Committee, and Zoning Board of Appeals.

I suggest maybe we page through these one at a time, and then people can comment as we go. Does that work for everyone? So Commission on Disability.

[Speaker 4] (17:19 - 18:18)
So I would like to move to table this until we ‑‑ two things. Number one is I think we should have a discussion about the size of this committee. And number two, I think we need to review the Mass General Law that establishes the regulations on who should be on this committee.

I think from what I looked at early this morning is we need to have the majority of people have to have a disability. Then you can have one person who's a relative, one person who is an official from the town. So I think with that, what we might want to do is reduce this committee and just have a discussion about reducing it.

Is it a good idea, bad idea, whatever? But right now, I don't know if all of these applicants actually fit into that ratio. This has been a committee that we haven't been able to fill for a while now.

And I think it's an important committee that we do need to get filled and get active.

[Speaker 3] (18:21 - 18:46)
Okay. I mean, if you want to table it so we have more information on this and have a discussion about the membership numbers, I think we can put this one aside. And then maybe follow up with the town administrator also on the recommendations and just so we can have an understanding of if people are meeting the requirements of Mass General Law.

[Speaker 1] (18:46 - 19:27)
I just would only add that we have some extraordinary individuals that have come forward at our request to serve on this committee. There is an urgent need to really fill these positions. I see no reason why the board can't appoint a number of these individuals today and continue to have a conversation in the future.

The individuals that I've met with have extraordinary backgrounds in helping to support individuals and families with disabilities. We certainly can take a few more weeks, but I would urge the board to act.

[Speaker 4] (19:28 - 20:20)
I think the goal with what I'm looking at here is there's two things. One is, should we have a disability commission or is there a possibility we should have a disability committee? I think that, I don't have an answer here.

I'm just saying if we had a disability committee, then could we have, are we not as restricted? We could have more people. The reason why I'm saying maybe we should consider reducing the numbers is because we would have better opportunities to have a quorum.

If we were to go ahead and appoint everyone here, the question is, you have one, two, three, four, you have five individuals. That would be the majority. Do these individuals actually comply with that mass general law?

I just think it's something we just need to take a peek at. I agree with everything you said.

[Speaker 1] (20:20 - 21:32)
I think you've raised some really good points and thoughtful points. I think it would be important for us to come back and really think about other opportunities for us to help ensure a committee like this. I will say in all of my experiences, every community I've worked with, the disability commission, for a lot of really difficult reasons, has a hard time maintaining a continuity.

Many of the members, especially individuals that struggle with disabilities, find it very, very difficult at times to maintain a continuity with a committee. In really restating this committee right now with the three new individuals that have expressed energy and enthusiasm and an interest in supporting this committee, I think is a really important opportunity for us to get the committee the leadership it needs. Perhaps we can invite the members of this committee to a future meeting and really talk about some of the important questions that you've raised, Mary Ellen.

I do think individuals on this committee would be important stakeholders. That said, it's the board's disposition. If we want to take a few more weeks, we can certainly do that.

[Speaker 4] (21:32 - 21:34)
I just want to make sure we're in compliance with Mass General Law.

[Speaker 5] (21:34 - 21:55)
Understood. Okay. I had a question about how do we maintain compliance with Mass General Law if one of the federal protections is that we can't ask what your disability is?

How does that work? It seems to be counterproductive and counterintuitive.

[Speaker 1] (21:58 - 22:57)
Again, I think what's most important is do we have individuals that have worked with populations and families that have disabilities, and are they really going to be helpful in navigating through a complicated network of advocacy? This committee can be a powerful advocate for families dealing with struggles, and I don't see a good reason to defer on appointment today. Let's take that action and circle back around and have another conversation about this important committee in the next two weeks.

I think having a conversation about how we meet the needs of the disabled in Swampskate is a very important conversation. I don't want to defer a future conversation, Mary Ellen. I think we actually could do some good work by having a follow-up conversation.

[Speaker 3] (22:58 - 23:07)
Okay. I think I trust that we'll work on this over the next two weeks so we can hopefully bring back the Disability Commission on September's level.

[Speaker 4] (23:08 - 23:12)
Can we change it from being Disability Commission to a Disability Committee?

[Speaker 1] (23:13 - 23:17)
I assume that perhaps you can, but is it semantics?

[Speaker 2] (23:19 - 24:01)
It's not semantics. I defer to a member that also wants more time, but I would just ask this is not something that needed to be first brought up tonight. For the last two months, we knew we didn't appoint Disability Commission.

We've sat with three members. They haven't been meeting because they haven't had a quorum. We were just furthering the complication by raising it at the last minute tonight when we've just got to do a better job communicating to the town administrator our expectations or if we have questions or concerns, because I think there's actually at least one of the appointees is virtually with us tonight, and she's not going to be appointed tonight because we're raising something when, frankly, we've had two-plus months, actually even longer to raise these issues. So I just ask that we're more timely in this so that we can get these committees built.

[Speaker 15] (24:04 - 24:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (24:07 - 25:01)
So we'll work on that, answer these questions, come up with a plan, and hopefully have this on the agenda for September 7th. We'll get the Disability Commission back or some sort of conversation on the agenda for that. All right?

Okay. So the next one is Conservation Commission. This is for an associate non-voting member.

So this doesn't actually add to the membership of the Conservation Commission. It's Molly O'Connell, who was the senior planner, is interested in working with the Conservation Commission. And on the recommendation of Tony Abrandowitz, she's asked that Molly be appointed as an associate non-voting member.

This town council has said this is fine, and it's part of the handbook for Conservation Commissions that this is allowable. So that's what that is.

[Speaker 2] (25:01 - 25:05)
Are we doing motions? I'm going to do a motion. So I do a motion to appoint.

[Speaker 3] (25:05 - 25:05)
Sure.

[Speaker 2] (25:06 - 25:10)
If that's okay. Yeah. Molly O'Connell for a three-year term as an associate non-voting member.

[Speaker 3] (25:10 - 25:13)
Second. Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

[Speaker 5] (25:13 - 25:18)
Aye. Aye. Oh.

Didn't we also have to make an adjustment? Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (25:18 - 25:39)
No, thank you for reminding me. So the other thing that I noticed is that Scott Saunders was recommended as a full member, and we had appointed him as an alternate. So I wanted to make sure we appoint him as a full member.

At our last appointment meeting, whenever that was, we had appointed him as an alternate.

[Speaker 2] (25:40 - 25:46)
So I would amend my motion to include confirmation of Scott Saunders as a full member with a three-year term. I'll second.

[Speaker 3] (25:46 - 26:29)
All those in favor? Aye. Aye.

Thanks. Thanks for reminding me. Yep.

Hadley School Reuse Advisory Committee. The select board appoints, it actually says seven are appointed by the select board in your packet, but four are appointed by the select board. And these are three reappointments.

The fourth has moved out of town. So we're not, that's the reason that there's one that needs to be filled. But these three people have asked to be reappointed, which is Steve Perdue, who's the chair, Laurie Levin, and Adrian Rodriguez.

[Speaker 2] (26:31 - 26:40)
I'd make a motion to appoint Steve Perdue, Laurie Levin, and Adrian Rodriguez to one-year terms as the select board appointees to the Hadley School Reuse Advisory Committee. Second.

[Speaker 3] (26:41 - 27:01)
All those in favor? Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye. Historic District Commission.

And Sean, feel free to jump in on these, too. But these are reappointments for three-year terms for existing members. If anyone has any questions on those.

[Speaker 2] (27:01 - 27:02)
I think two of them are. One's a new appointment.

[Speaker 3] (27:03 - 27:06)
Excuse me. Thank you. New appointment and two reappointments.

[Speaker 1] (27:08 - 27:27)
I certainly would recommend, I think we have some really talented individuals on this committee. And Stacey Reiling is somebody that really has shown a real interest in historical preservation and supporting the work of the committee.

[Speaker 4] (27:29 - 28:01)
So I do have a question. First, Stacey Reiling actually applied to be on this committee in 2020. Which I think is great.

And I looked at her resume and she seems great. And I'm definitely going to vote yes here. But I do have a question as far as what the process is.

Because as you look at different committees, you have lists of people. 10, 15, 19 people have applied. And how are they all being vetted and interviewed and things like that?

I just want an update on what the process is.

[Speaker 1] (28:01 - 28:56)
Typically, the chair of the committees are notified. And we'll look at the number of people that apply for various committees. And work with the committee chair to find individuals that seem to be well suited for the role.

Certainly, I've met with a number of candidates and suggested that they serve on other committees. After a review of their resume, I've seen some individuals that have backgrounds in health that I've suggested look at. A board of health.

Some individuals that have background in earth sciences that I've looked at as possible members of our earth removal committee. So there's always an opportunity to kind of see where we best could utilize somebody's talents and strengths.

[Speaker 4] (28:58 - 29:00)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (29:03 - 29:06)
Any other questions? Or do I have a motion for Historic District Commission?

[Speaker 5] (29:09 - 29:16)
Motion to appoint Richard Smith, Ger Germa, and Stacey Reiling to three-year terms on the Historic District Commission.

[Speaker 3] (29:17 - 29:22)
Second. All right. Any more discussion?

All those in favor?

[Speaker 15] (29:22 - 29:22)
Aye.

[Speaker 3] (29:26 - 29:42)
Open Space and Recreation Committee. One new appointment. Stephen Banks.

Stephen's here. Stephen, I welcome you to come down and say a few words if you'd like. But don't feel obligated.

[Speaker 15] (29:44 - 29:45)
Do it.

[Speaker 3] (29:46 - 29:48)
I mean, you came all this way.

[Speaker 5] (29:50 - 29:51)
Peer pressure wins out.

[Speaker 13] (29:57 - 30:12)
Thank you. I just would like to be part of making this community better. This is my home.

I've been in my home for 18 years. And I don't know if you've been for many more years. And if you're part of the problem, you're part of the solution.

So I'd rather be on the solution side of that.

[Speaker 1] (30:14 - 30:37)
Great. I had a chance to meet with Steve yesterday and, frankly, was impressed with his passion but also his commitment to service. You know, provide some extraordinary support for this committee and continue to energize some of the work around our open space and recreation programs.

[Speaker 2] (30:39 - 31:28)
Mr. Chairman, I'm happy to make a motion. But before I do, I just got to say for so many of these volunteers, there are doers and there's complainers. And Steve Banks is a doer.

And you see him all over the place. And the funny thing about doers and complainers, you know who are the complainers and who are the doers. And I love the doers that show up and put their name out there.

And you, no doubt, see things that need to be made better. And your way of fixing them is not to complain about them but to show up and say, I'm willing to invest my time and my skill set. And you are busy.

You have a lot of things going on with your family and professionally. And so the same with the other volunteers. So with that, I'm happy.

We could do like a forever term, I would, Steve Banks. But a three-year term on the open space and recreation committee for Steven Banks. Second.

[Speaker 3] (31:28 - 31:35)
Any more discussion? All those in favor? Aye.

Aye. Aye. Thank you.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you. Thanks for coming.

[Speaker 1] (32:02 - 32:35)
I think Jacob has a background as an attorney and certainly would bring a wonderful passion for recreation. I know that he has been active in a number of our recreation programs. I had an opportunity to meet with him a few weeks ago, and I think that he will add to the talent of the committee.

And as we continue to evolve recreation programs and initiatives, I can see his unique skill set being put to good use.

[Speaker 5] (32:35 - 33:16)
Yeah, I know Jacob fairly well. And, you know, as a father of three young children, he's looking to get involved and really is willing to give of his time, efforts, and energies. I know he's been working with Danielle and myself to plan events that are upcoming, a family weekend that's coming up this Saturday, as well as Swamptoberfest next month.

So he's hitting the ground running even before being sworn in. So with that, I'd like to make a motion to appoint Jacob Simon for a three-year term on the Recreation Commission.

[Speaker 3] (33:17 - 34:52)
Second. Any more discussion? I'll just say I'm excited to see the Recreation Commission start to fill up.

There are more applications, I think. You know, I think there's a lot of exciting things happening, and it would be great to get all the help we can get and have more creative events and programs. So with that, all those in favor?

Aye. Aye. All right.

Renewable Energy Committee. We have Martha Schmidt here who's joined us. I'm happy to say some words about Martha.

This is a long time coming. Martha's been working with the Renewable Energy Committee for a long – for at least a year, right, if not longer, and was, if you recall, the resolution that we passed at the last town meeting for our Climate Action Plan. Our greenhouse gas inventory, she really did that greenhouse gas inventory for the town on her own volunteer time, and has been just a driving force in helping push a Climate Action Plan for the town.

So although not an official member of the Renewable Energy Committee, has been an amazing leader in climate and energy for the last couple of years. So I really appreciate everything Martha's done to date, and I'm glad to have her be an official member of the Renewable Energy Committee. Martha, I welcome you to come down and say a few words if you'd like.

[Speaker 11] (34:58 - 35:26)
I've been a member of the community for about six years, so I'm kind of a newbie, but love the community, love being by the ocean, and I like to consider myself one of the doers, so I definitely want to contribute to the Renewable Energy Committee. I'm interested in technology and kind of moving us forward, reducing our emissions and making our place better overall.

[Speaker 1] (35:27 - 35:46)
Martha, I really had a wonderful time going over your background, your passion for our environment. You certainly can make swamps get cleaner and greener, and I'm impressed with not only your academic achievement, but your professional achievement and your passion for public service. So lots for us to do.

[Speaker 2] (35:47 - 36:04)
The other thing I'd say is, Martha, whether it's six minutes or six years, it doesn't matter how long you're here. You're as relevant and as important as if you were here 50 years and like to start every one of your statements by saying that you've been living here 50 years. It doesn't matter.

You're contributing, and it's great. It's really awesome. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (36:07 - 36:38)
All right. Do I have a motion to appoint Martha Schmidt to a three-year term on the Renewable Energy Committee? So moved.

Second. All those in favor? Aye.

Aye. Thanks, Martha. Thanks, Martha.

Thank you. Traffic Study Advisory Committee. I don't know what I tried to pronounce this name.

It's Nayati Akar Shah for a one-year term. New appointment.

[Speaker 1] (36:40 - 37:45)
So I had a chance to catch up with Nayati. She certainly is an extraordinarily credentialed individual, and her background is data analytics, which I think would be extraordinarily useful in helping us really think about, you know, our traffic demands on busy roadways with busy daily trip counts and a number of important pedestrian safety initiatives. She certainly could serve on any number of committees.

Her background is in managing a lot of health care systems. But I see this as a wonderful opportunity for her to really contribute to one of our most important committees and would encourage the board to appoint her to this committee.

[Speaker 3] (37:47 - 37:49)
Any questions or comments?

[Speaker 2] (37:50 - 37:56)
I would make a motion to appoint Nayati Akar Shah to a one-year term on the Traffic Study Advisory Committee.

[Speaker 3] (37:56 - 38:00)
Second. Any more discussion? All those in favor?

[Speaker 15] (38:00 - 38:00)
Aye.

[Speaker 3] (38:01 - 38:11)
Okay. And then the last one is a reappointment of Brad Croft to a five-year term to the Zoning Board of Appeals.

[Speaker 2] (38:14 - 38:21)
I would make a motion to appoint Bradley Croft to a five-year term on the Smallscott Zoning Board of Appeals.

[Speaker 3] (38:23 - 38:31)
I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye. Aye. Awesome.

[Speaker 4] (38:32 - 38:44)
You know, I have a quick question just about zoning board. Yeah. What is the process as far as filling positions on zoning board?

That's a very technical board. Would that be considered a very technical board?

[Speaker 1] (38:47 - 38:58)
I think they're all technical. But, yes, the ZBA is an adjudicatory board, and so they have very specialized roles and responsibilities.

[Speaker 4] (38:59 - 39:12)
So do we put something in the newsletter stating that, because it looks like there's a vacancy on that one, or a vacancy for all of them, but on boards like this, do we need to get that?

[Speaker 1] (39:12 - 39:18)
Typically advertise or we'll get information out. We don't typically put something in the newspaper, but.

[Speaker 4] (39:19 - 39:20)
I mean the newsletter, our newsletter.

[Speaker 1] (39:20 - 39:21)
Yes, we can get it out.

[Speaker 4] (39:22 - 39:27)
And are these, are these all, is this illegal? Do you have to be a lawyer to be on this?

[Speaker 2] (39:27 - 39:58)
Nope, no. As a matter of fact, I think the board's best served when we diversify. I think you have one, two, three lawyers currently on the board.

You have one architect on the board. You have one real estate investor on the board. And you have two, I guess what I'll call, people who are smaller scale, local real estate experience currently on the board.

But I think having that diversity of it, feeling and opinion and background is huge. As a matter of fact, I think you can have too many lawyers.

[Speaker 4] (40:00 - 40:01)
Who would have thought?

[Speaker 2] (40:02 - 40:02)
Agreed.

[Speaker 3] (40:06 - 40:49)
Okay, next item on the agenda is an update on King's Beach. And this is an update from Sean on the work that he's been doing with the King's Beach Steering Committee which is, he's been working with members of Lynn, to work on best approach to mitigate and hopefully solve the issue of the King's Beach pollution. It's a massive problem that everyone's aware of.

But Sean's here just to update us on where they are and their conversations, what options they've been looking into and just having conversations about.

[Speaker 4] (40:49 - 40:53)
Sean, can you tell us who is on the steering committee from Swanscot?

[Speaker 1] (40:56 - 41:22)
I serve on the steering committee. Gino Cresta also is on the steering committee and we have members of town staff. I know we've had our assistant engineer on it.

So Diane, could you pull up that presentation?

[Speaker 3] (41:24 - 41:28)
Is it similar for Lynn, is it staff and?

[Speaker 1] (41:29 - 41:37)
Yes, we have stakeholder groups. We have a number of. That's not the one he's looking for.

Yeah, that's, nope.

[Speaker 2] (41:38 - 41:40)
You had it a second ago, just go back to where you were.

[Speaker 1] (41:41 - 42:13)
Right there? Yeah, close that out. We have a number of stakeholder groups that include members from Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection.

We've had representatives from Congressman Moulton's office and we've had also members of our legislative delegation as part of the stakeholder group. So it's a pretty broad group of stakeholders. I've helped to lead a team of, Diane, I sent it to you just.

[Speaker 15] (42:13 - 42:14)
Yeah, I have it, Sean.

[Speaker 1] (42:16 - 42:28)
Really, we put this together as a working group but also a broader stakeholder group so that we can really get as much input into the process as possible.

[Speaker 4] (42:28 - 42:32)
Are there any local scientists, like marine biology type of scientists on here?

[Speaker 1] (42:33 - 43:04)
No. We don't, we don't have marine biologists. But we do work, we have worked with a number of state agencies that have marine biologists.

This was really put together as a task force to really look at a few of the alternatives so that we can move as nimbly as possible to work with our state and federal officials to seek funding to resolve the impairment to that.

[Speaker 15] (43:05 - 43:05)
Yeah, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (43:05 - 43:23)
So we've had to kind of balance a little bit of the process with a timeline that really can help us work with some very, you know, opportune situations that are happening on a state and national level with funding.

[Speaker 3] (43:25 - 43:41)
And is, is, is Kleinfelder the engineering firm? Are they involved in this in terms of providing technical information? Sorry, it's like all part of your presentation.

[Speaker 1] (43:41 - 46:34)
It is. Yes, Kleinfelder is the engineer that we've engaged to look at this alternative analysis. I have previously, you know, put together a presentation that kind of goes over the initial kind of framework of the committees and the role of the stakeholders.

So if we can just advance the slide, Diane. You know, the screening process really was set up to look at a number of key alternatives that would help us quickly identify a short list of alternatives so that we can do a detailed analysis. This presentation really just goes over some of those initial efforts.

Next slide. Okay. So this is just a quick graph to kind of give you a sense of where we are in the process.

We wanted to establish the need, establish goals, and look at preliminary alternatives. We also developed a screening criteria. This was a list of priorities that we really wanted to weigh as a group of stakeholders.

We wanted to get input from this steering committee or the stakeholder group that involved municipality agencies both on a local and state level. And then we wanted to do a more focused, detailed alternatives analysis before we actually came to a recommendation for implementation. So next slide.

So here are the criteria and the weight that we gave each of the criteria. We wanted to look at public acceptance, efficacy, performance and reliability, life cycle cost, capital cost, implementation schedule, operation and maintenance, environmental impact, siting restrictions, and permitting. We really wanted to ensure that we had a mindful and thoughtful review of all of these key criteria.

We gave them certain public acceptance. We know that this is a beach and we know that thinking about the waterfront and the aesthetics of the waterfront was gonna be very important. Looking at efficacy, how much impairment we'll do see based on the different solutions and alternatives.

Performance and reliability, certainly that would be very important. So these are all weighted based on some of those priorities.

[Speaker 4] (46:35 - 46:40)
I have a quick one. Can you just tell me what does it mean on capital cost planning estimate level five?

[Speaker 1] (46:41 - 47:00)
Yep. So capital costs are really the ongoing or the initial investment that we'd have to make. Some of the alternatives have shorter initial startup costs but may have longer or more costly operation and maintenance costs.

[Speaker 4] (47:00 - 47:04)
It's like level five is the thing that I'm not, I don't understand what level five means.

[Speaker 1] (47:06 - 47:10)
Okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (47:11 - 47:12)
We can come back to that later.

[Speaker 1] (47:13 - 50:22)
Sure, I'm not exactly sure what level five there is. It may be a part of a table that we have but I can get back to you on that. All right, so next slide, Diane.

So this is just a bar chart just kind of going over based on what we've looked at and how we've weighted from a technical review different alternatives. Kleinfelder went through their review and put a bar chart together. So you can see based on certain graphics where the siting restrictions came in, the environmental impact, the performance and reliability.

Surprisingly, this showed that disinfection with ultraviolet light really was a very attractive alternative. Also extending the outfall into the ocean was an attractive alternative. Source elimination through infrastructure improvements.

Again, that's what we currently are doing. We're making infrastructure improvements but that's gonna be over time. And we looked at pumping dry weather base flow back to the Lynn Water and Sewer Commission treatment plant.

That initially looked like a feasible option when we look at dry weather days to keep all of the dry weather flow within the system and pumping it back up to the treatment plant and having it cleaned and processed and sent back out would certainly be an alternative that we could evaluate but given the regulatory concerns that were expressed about that, it became less attractive. This disinfection with additional chemical additions, that's the chlorination, dechlorination station. We previously did do that and we were informed by DEP that that was no longer gonna be environmentally acceptable.

Adding more chemicals to the outfall impacts microbial life and has an environmental impact that frankly can be difficult to manage. And while that on a short term cost is a lot more attractive, it has some environmental impacts that frankly are just too impactful. The relocation of outfalls along the shore to avoid the public beach.

This was looking both to the Swampskate side and the Lynn side. Where could we redirect the outfall so that we didn't have an impact to individuals that wanted to use the beach? Just the logistics of that, the cost associated with that just did not seem to be feasible.

[Speaker 3] (50:23 - 50:36)
So can I just ask, so the weighting of these criteria was determined by Kleinfeld or through this process?

[Speaker 1] (50:37 - 51:03)
It was decided by Kleinfeld and the stakeholder group. So we had a number of meetings with representatives from the city of Lynn and representatives from various stakeholder groups and we came up with this. This has evolved over the course of the last few months and we've added some additional focus on some of the criteria.

[Speaker 3] (51:03 - 51:17)
And then given the weighting that was decided upon, it was the scoring done by the group as a whole? Like each member did the scoring or did Kleinfeld or did this scoring based on?

[Speaker 1] (51:17 - 51:35)
Kleinfeld had done this scoring. We have yet to really, as a stakeholder group, shortlist everything. We did meet last week and we did discuss prioritizing a few but we haven't voted as a group.

[Speaker 3] (51:35 - 51:39)
Got it. I just wanted to understand sort of where we were at. Thanks.

[Speaker 1] (51:40 - 52:30)
So next slide. So here's a breakdown of some of the capital costs and associated timelines for the various options. So the first alternative is source elimination.

This is what we're currently doing. And so assumptions are if we spend an additional 17 and a half million dollars over the next five years, we'll be able to possibly keep the beach open for 90% of the time. And that's a big if.

That's a big if we don't have surface contamination and some other impairments that continue to impact Kings Beach.

[Speaker 5] (52:31 - 52:34)
And that's just on the Swampscot side, correct?

[Speaker 1] (52:34 - 55:57)
That's just on the Swampscot side. Lynn is involved in their illicit discharge detection and elimination evaluation. They've just started to look at the scope of that so we don't have the numbers but we know that it's gonna be likely in the tens of millions.

And so just that status quo of what we've currently been doing, we're gonna be spending $20 million plus as a region to try to mitigate impairments to Kings Beach. And again, this is five to 10 years worth of ongoing effort. We've made it clear to the regulatory agencies both on a state and federal level that we'll continue to work through a status of good repair to maintain our pipes, but it's gonna take too long for us to try to continue to just use that as the only strategy to help address the impairment to that beach.

We've looked at that pumping dry weather flow to Lynn Water and Sewer. The capital costs associated with that, just the infrastructure needed to make that investment would be about 14,300,000. It might take two and a half years to do that.

It would essentially give us 90% of the utility of the beach. We've striking that through based on some of the recommendations from the design committee. Chemical disinfection, capital costs are $7.4 million for the infrastructure, for the buildings, for the chemical and treatment systems. It's roughly 3.3 years. The fourth alternative was UV disinfection. That's $11.4 million. Timeline for implementation is about 3.1 years with a 90% keeping the beach open. Extending the outfall would be about a $40 million project. It would take about 6.3 years. Mostly that additional time is the regulatory timeline associated with permitting. That would help support a 94% efficacy for keeping the beach open. The last was relocating the outfalls at 77 million.

That would be about 5.8 years. And so as we've looked at these alternatives, we've ranked the UV disinfection, extending the outfall. And actually at our last meeting, Senator Creighton and stakeholders from Lynn Water and Sewer asked us to keep the chemical disinfection open for all continued analysis.

And so as a group, we agreed that we would keep that chemical disinfection open. We heard recently that the state regulatory agencies may be open to a short-term use of some chemicals to help ensure that we address the impairment to the outfall.

[Speaker 5] (55:58 - 56:09)
So Sean, just quickly, with the chemical disinfection as an open alternative, would the beach be safe?

[Speaker 1] (56:09 - 56:30)
It would be safe. In fact, it would be treated in ways that would be consistent with standards for public health. And we would ensure that we had testing both before and after to ensure for environmental conditions that would be safe.

[Speaker 5] (56:30 - 56:42)
And the town of Swampscott would move to test daily, similar to what the city of Lynn does? Or combine our testing protocols?

[Speaker 1] (56:43 - 57:08)
Yes, I think at some future point, I think the goal will be to have this fall under D.C. Department of Conservation and Recreation. It's a beach that really is managed by the Department of Conservation and Recreation. And we'd like to have further conversations about just having one agency be responsible for that testing.

[Speaker 5] (57:08 - 57:16)
Got it. And can you remind us what the town of Swampscott has spent to date under the consent decree? We've- For the first several phases?

For the first several phases.

[Speaker 1] (57:17 - 58:53)
We've spent, just over the last five years, we've spent close to $5 million. But over the last 15 years, it's been close to 16 million. So the town has spent millions.

We will continue to spend millions. And all of those dollars will get us no closer to seeing that beach cleaner in the next few years. It's gonna take a long, long time.

And there's still no promise that we're gonna have a beach that won't see significant impairment based on one faulty pipe, one cracked pipe, can load that beach with millions of impacts from bacteria. And that, it just takes a small amount of bacteria to close that beach down. This really, we need a solution that can really help us address some of the huge issues that we have with our infrastructure.

Most of the pipes in and around the King's Beach area are made out of clay, and they're cracked. And they require significant, capital maintenance. And I just don't think, without a major investment from the state or federal government, we're gonna see that beach brought back to productive reuse.

[Speaker 4] (58:54 - 59:01)
You have numbers of, are there any projected numbers of how many people would actually, or could actually use that beach on a daily basis?

[Speaker 1] (59:03 - 59:05)
I mean, it's a huge beach. I don't, I.

[Speaker 4] (59:06 - 59:08)
I mean, but they haven't run any numbers, just saying what.

[Speaker 1] (59:09 - 59:33)
No, I haven't heard any, but I do know that back, at the turn of the century, I was told that that beach was one of the most popular beaches in the region. And certainly on a beautiful day, you might see a handful of people on the beach, but it's not a well-utilized beach. And I think it's because.

[Speaker 14] (59:33 - 59:35)
Well, because it's closed for most of the whole time. It's still there.

[Speaker 1] (59:35 - 59:46)
I know, yep. And so, you know, it's hard to, you know, I'm sure we could probably get some estimate of what that beach would be like if it were, you know.

[Speaker 4] (59:46 - 59:56)
I just think those numbers would be helpful in trying to get more funding, just showing the amount of people that are missing out on access to that beach.

[Speaker 1] (59:58 - 1:04:24)
Yeah, I, you know, for me, it, when you look at the population in the region, that's a state, you know, most of that beach is a state beach. And to me, when you look at an asset of the Commonwealth and think, oh wow, that's impaired, and you have, you know, a region of hundreds of thousands of people that, you know, could enjoy a beautiful historic resource area like that, it's frustrating. But, you know, I do think it's important for us to just recognize.

Senator Creighton, Representative Ehrlich, and Congressman Moulton all have worked diligently. I know Mayor Nicholson and Mayor McGee have been advocating forcefully that we get the state and federal funding that we need to help support the remediation of the environmental impact of that beach. We've received $5 million over the last six months to help begin this effort.

And these alternatives are some of the best ideas that we have been able to identify. We have one of the best engineering companies and best teams working on this. At this point, you know, we need to shortlist this, and we need to move forward with some additional detailed analysis on the UV disinfection, the extended outfall, and the chemical disinfection.

Next Wednesday, there's a group of stakeholders heading down to Newport, Rhode Island to meet with the members of the Department of Public Works of Newport, Rhode Island, where they have invested in a UV disinfection system at a magnitude of the size that we would need, and we are going to learn more about that technology. It is fascinating technology. If you could move on, Guy.

Just, there's a picture of, you know, source elimination. This is what I was referring to earlier. This is our sewer rehab.

We've been doing it since, we've been doing this since, really, prior to 2017. But this is a picture of the sleeves that we have put into the pipes. You know, this helps protect the pipes from leaching.

Sewer, we've completed a number of phases, as we mentioned, you know, it's at least 17 and a half million dollars, you know, as we continue to look at all of the work that we have to do in SwampFit. Lynn will continue to look at their IDVE or their possible infiltration issues. Next slide, if you look at the alternative, or this is the UV.

This is kind of a map of, really, the drainage infrastructure. There's an abandoned culvert between Lynn and Salem on Eastern Ave that we would likely need to reutilize, and we'd need to look at properties, both within SwampFit, along, you know, New Ocean Street. We have an abandoned pump house that may be utilized for some of our disinfection stations.

So there's some logistics about where we would need to locate the disinfection buildings. We've looked at the existing infrastructure, and certainly this will require ongoing maintenance for screening and removals. There's a lot of power that's required.

We'd likely need to do a pilot program, but we're collecting information, and this does really look like an attractive alternative for addressing the impairment of the beach.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:24 - 1:04:43)
I know this is just a conceptual plan, but the screening building is in SwampFit. Is that sort of, would it have to be in this area, or is this just one idea? Like, what is, how conceptual is this?

[Speaker 1] (1:04:43 - 1:04:51)
That's one question, and then. This is big picture conceptual. This is just to give you a familiarity with some of the alternatives.

And no, I think.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:51 - 1:04:53)
Is that spot right there where the abandoned pump house that you talked about?

[Speaker 1] (1:04:55 - 1:05:21)
And so there may be some other alternatives that we look at as we try to define the feasibility, but this is even, you know, this isn't even really feasibility. This is, you know, we're doing concepts right now, and we're trying to get a sense of, you know, if we were to move towards this alternative, would it be feasible? Right now, it's a concept.

[Speaker 3] (1:05:22 - 1:05:31)
Do you know what, it says two diversion structures provide years for wet, W-E-I-R-S. Do you know what that is?

[Speaker 1] (1:05:32 - 1:06:13)
Yeah, that's, you know, it's, it allows for a diversion of the wet weather, so we're gonna, during wet weather events, you know, we're, you know, that beach, you know, likely won't be safe. Wet weather events are always gonna wash contaminants onto the beach, and we're gonna have to just let the drainage go out. We can't, there's not gonna be a big, we won't have the ability to store a lot of the flow, and so we're gonna have to find a way to, you know, let that drain out.

[Speaker 14] (1:06:14 - 1:06:14)
Are these?

[Speaker 3] (1:06:14 - 1:06:22)
I was asking about what a weir is. It looks like it's a low dam built across a river to raise the level of water, sorry.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:22 - 1:06:28)
Yeah, it's a control feature, control, it's a design control for flow. Yeah, I've just never heard the word.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:28 - 1:06:35)
Are the green, so on the dark green lines that we see here, have those already been lined?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:37 - 1:07:22)
No, those are existing, you know, drainage infrastructure that are the size that may allow us to install ultraviolet light fixtures to kill the bacteria. But have those been relined? No, no, no, these are main drainage, you know, pipes.

It's not the, these aren't the tributaries. I can only speak to the swamp side. I'm not sure about Lynn's.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:24 - 1:07:37)
So does Lynn, so as we're thinking about this critically and regionally, does Lynn have an idea of a timeline as to when, you know, the initial IDD approach, when they'll have some additional information to share?

[Speaker 1] (1:07:38 - 1:10:00)
Yeah, they're working on it now. I would expect, you know, some time over the next few months, but we learned that Lynn has done quite a bit of work over the last few years. Lynn, Water and Sewer has done a lot of work to help address some of the infrastructure needs, but that IDDE process is, you know, in a regulatory, you know, due diligence, and they're just getting going with that.

They'll have to go neighborhood by neighborhood and try to figure out, you know, are they getting high loads in certain manholes, and it's just an intensive process. And they need weather events to occur, so they need- No, you can get dry weather flows and get some data. Like we, you know, you can do dry weather and wet weather loads.

It is different during the different weather events, but, you know, on a dry weather day, and you're getting wet weather flows, you know that you've got, you know, potentially, you know, an impairment somewhere that's leeching into the system. But it is technical. So next slide.

This is the extending the outfall. Again, this is a pretty low-tech type of solution, you know, but, you know, the environmental impact is significant of extending an outfall. There are a number of beaches throughout the Commonwealth that have employed this type of technology.

This would be a 4,500-foot extension. Gravity flow would be assumed, but certainly tidal conditions may necessitate pumping. This would require extensive environmental permitting and Article 97 legislation because it is a state beach.

And CZM, Coastal Zone Management Coordination, would be expected to be challenging. With that said, it's a, you know, this is a very feasible option. The capital costs are significant, but the maintenance costs, you know, are very attractive, and it would give us a functional utility of the beach that I think would restore public confidence.

[Speaker 5] (1:10:01 - 1:10:07)
John, is there a magic number? Is 4,500 the magic number there? How did you, how was that number?

[Speaker 1] (1:10:08 - 1:10:54)
I'd have to get the engineers to, you know, get you an answer to that. I'm not sure. I think 4,500 feet is the extent of what would be safe in terms of anything washing back, and having that pipe be long enough to slowly allow the salt water to kill the bacteria.

And so part of the design is, you know, allowing just enough water to, you know, enter the pipe to, you know, ensure that we're cleaning, you know, or mitigating, diluting the bacteria impairment.

[Speaker 4] (1:10:54 - 1:11:02)
So this is, is this, is this relocate outfall? Is this the 77 million, or is this extended outfall?

[Speaker 1] (1:11:02 - 1:12:39)
This is the extending the outfall. This is just, you know, we didn't put in the, relocating the outfalls because it just, they just did not seem feasible. So we've kind of moved forward with these alternatives.

So next steps, just next slide, Diane. You know, we're gonna seek overall concurrence of the shortlist. We're gonna complete, you know, some additional detailed analysis on the alternatives.

We expect to reconvene the steering committee mid, in mid-September. I know that Selectman Grishman has been part of our initial kickoff meeting, certainly has been involved in, I think you're on some of the emails, but, you know, certainly, you know, would welcome David to, you know, continue to play a role. I'd love to have a member of the board join us down in Newport if somebody thought they had the time next Wednesday, but, you know, this is the due diligence.

We still are eager to get up to see Governor Baker over the next few weeks. We know that, you know, time is important. I am, I'm pressing this stakeholder group to really get to a preferred alternative soon, because I wanna seek the governor's support for additional investments that would help us bring that beach back to productive use.

[Speaker 2] (1:12:41 - 1:15:07)
So, I'd like to chime in on a couple of things. I appreciate that we keep using the word beach, but we should just really use the word coastline. The beach is secondary to it being coastline, and I appreciate that we're thinking about how many people would use the beach, but even if no one could use the beach, it's an environmental and public health-like problem.

And so, I wanna encourage us to not be afraid of big ticket items, because they're big ticket items. We can do the odd ball, and I appreciate we're saying beach days opens, but really, that's about bacteria count, right? We've humanized it by calling it beach days, but it's really bacteria count, right?

Which is about health and safety and environmental issues. And so, from my perspective, I think we can keep calling it beach days, but it's really, this is an environmental need, right? And so, I don't know anything more about the odd ball than what you presented tonight, but I don't want us to be scared by the dollars.

We have a partner in Lynn, and we're gonna have stakeholders beyond Swampscott and Lynn helping us with this, and to be able to forever handle this problem and do it in an environmentally sensitive way, and I appreciate there's a lot of environmental permitting. That doesn't mean it's a bad environmental project. It just means that we have to be sensitive because of what it entails doing.

But I just wanna make sure that we're being open to it, and we're not saying, hey, we wanna try and do it cheaper. And you said nothing to make me believe that money was a driving factor here, but I am concerned that it's part of a collective group here and I wanna make sure, I appreciate everything you're doing. I really would like David can chime in, but I really think a member of the board needs to be involved because ultimately, I think we should be asked what Swampscott's position is before you frankly raise your hand in that stakeholder group just because I think it's important to not have us bound to a path that we haven't, as a community, discussed, especially if it's going to be one where we think we're doing the cheaper one or the more expensive one.

I think that this is, relatively speaking, the cost differential for the magnitude of what this is and the longevity and the public health and environmental issues is de minimis, again, big, but de minimis long-term in terms of what we need to be doing once you take into consideration maintenance and everything else. So I'm really grateful you have, on your own, kept this going, but truly, we haven't talked about this in a while, and with the mayor and you keep driving the stakeholders, which is really great, so I'm really grateful.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:07 - 1:16:34)
Yeah, I appreciate those points. I will tell you, I have said many times in these stakeholder meetings with legislators and on a local and state, federal level, the order of magnitude of building an elementary school is larger than anything we're talking here, and cleaning that beach is worth, at least in elementary school. When we think about the local and state and federal resource area that we are seeking to protect, and I agree that it's not beach days.

It is just simply our civic responsibility on a local, state, and federal level, and part of the, I think, responsibility we bear as a generation is not to kick this can, not to think that we can escape some level of responsibility for how the infrastructure is impairing this resource area, and it's not, this is not an amount of funding that is unreasonable. It really is, on a state level, this is a reasonable investment. Other regions have received many more, millions of dollars, and this is a reasonable ask.

[Speaker 2] (1:16:34 - 1:18:07)
So the other thing, I guess, two other things that are tangentially related. I appreciate that recently we've been putting out hazard flags for high bacteria days. They're not really flags.

They're high derailings, but my understanding is that we test once a week, but DCR tests daily, and have you been able to figure out how we make sure that our days of high bacteria are consistent with DCR? Because if we're putting a flag out for a week and DCR is going to blue and saying you don't have bacteria, I believe it's really confusing, and I understand the problem with DCR doing it, not the problem, the challenge that's created by the fact that we do testing on a different timeline than the DCR, and frankly, the right answer isn't DCR doing less testing. The right answer is us joining DCR, frankly, on Aztec Kings Beach and see if we can work something out with DCR to be doing that and making sure that our title flags, frankly, I would appreciate them being flags.

People should not have to be walking on the sidewalk to see them. They should be flags just like DCR does, but have them up and do it consistent with DCR because I believe it creates a lot of confusion if we're not, there's no explanation for why an invisible timeline creates different bacteria counts. It doesn't, right?

I just want to make sure. Again, I appreciate that we're putting them up and a huge step forward, so that was really great. If we can just figure out the testing.

[Speaker 1] (1:18:08 - 1:18:48)
As of two weeks ago, we've been using DCR's daily test. We did have a discussion about the town, we are required to test, but we have decided to use DCR's test to just avoid that confusion. It's not fair for people that would travel regionally, it's not fair for people to look at that and think, what is this, North and South Korea, is there something different going on here?

We are part of the same region and we should use the same standard of care that the Department of Conservation and Recreation uses.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:48 - 1:19:39)
Right, so if you can just work with Gino or someone on an easy enough way that when there are bad days and when there's good days, there should be blue flags, I mean, we should just be adopting a similar pattern of what DCR does all the way to Swampscott. And then the second thing, which is very tangential, but recently I think there was a rescue of individuals who got into the outfall opening because it's not screened. And I have never understood why it's not secure.

And the fact that it doesn't happen more often that there aren't people, it feels to me that that's a fundamental public safety issue and that between DCR and us, we should be able to secure that. There may be reasons for access, a whole bunch of things, I don't know any of it, but I do know not having anything over them is... I think it's an attractive nuisance.

It's a very attractive nuisance. Maybe a smelly nuisance, but it's an attractive one.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:40 - 1:19:58)
Understood, understood. Well, I'll look into that and I think you're right. I think it's a dangerous situation and I do think part of it is debris does get clogged up there and I think we need to be more mindful that that could be a very dangerous situation.

So I will follow up with that.

[Speaker 2] (1:19:58 - 1:20:00)
Thank you, I appreciate it. Thanks for all your efforts.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:00 - 1:20:16)
Is the policy now that if DCR, DCR is testing every day, so if DCR is shutting down the beach, we're in line with shutting down the beach too? Yeah, yeah. Because that was brought up at the last Board of Health meeting and there was a little bit of confusion.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:17 - 1:20:19)
I think we're crystal clear at this point.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:19 - 1:20:20)
Great. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:20:22 - 1:20:30)
And so this will be your meeting back, it said in mid-September with the steering committee, so this will be back to us at some point probably this fall.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:32 - 1:21:03)
Yeah, it's my expectation, and again, to Peter's point, this isn't a unilateral decision that I'd be looking to make. I'd be looking to seek the board's consensus on the most preferable solution. I'd like to, at the next meeting, invite Kleinfelder to come back with Dino Acresta and talk to the board in more detail about where we are and what we're looking to do in terms of our state and federal advocacy.

[Speaker 3] (1:21:06 - 1:21:16)
Thanks, Sean, thanks for all that work. There is a hand raised that I am willing to take on this. It's Christopher James.

[Speaker 8] (1:21:18 - 1:21:20)
Hello, can you hear me?

[Speaker 3] (1:21:21 - 1:21:31)
Hi, Christopher, if you can just let us know name and address, and I'm assuming you're raising your hand to comment on this King's Beach conversation.

[Speaker 8] (1:21:32 - 1:21:34)
Yeah, just real quick, how much time do I have?

[Speaker 3] (1:21:35 - 1:21:36)
Just a couple of minutes.

[Speaker 8] (1:21:38 - 1:23:23)
Okay, so I'm from 100 Vantage Terrace in Spronskate. I live near King's Beach. I walked there pretty much every day.

I started an organization called Essex County Cleanups. We're doing a cleanup to beach on September 10th, 4 p.m. to 6 p.m., but I wanted to comment on some of the things that were said today. Specifically, has rapid irrigation beds been looked into?

Because that's something I think that would be helpful or any alternative method rather than using excuse me, rather than using something that we're just gonna kind of be, we're gonna be having this conversation again in a couple of years or something like that, like any more sustainable methods. I'm just wondering if they've been looked into. Also, who specifically is on the steering committee?

Is there any, do you have any organizations from the community? Because I know there's a Facebook group called Save King's Beach. There's us, which is Essex County Cleanups.

There's like a whole bunch of organizations. So I was just curious, specifically, I'm new to the area. So I didn't know like specifically who was involved.

And then the other thing, hold on. There was a lot of points I had, but I don't know if I could really remember them all. So my other question is how come we don't have enough money but other, Sean, you said that other regions had like more money donated or something like that.

Like specifically, how come we're lacking in funding? Those are really all my only three questions.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:25 - 1:23:27)
Can I ask what a rapid irrigation bed is?

[Speaker 8] (1:23:28 - 1:23:51)
Yeah, so a rapid irrigation bed would basically, so instead of using the pipes like we're using now, we would basically just close off that sector where the outfall is coming and we would use a rapid irrigation bed instead, which naturally cleanses the water. I'm not sure how much they cost, but I know it would be more sustainable than the pipes that we're using.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:58 - 1:27:13)
Well, certainly, you know, my comment about other regions, you know, Swampscot, this is kind of a unique situation because this outfall really sits in between two communities. And so I think, you know, over the years, both Swampscot and Lynn have worked with EPA and state agencies to independently address the impairment to the outfall. And so we've had both Swampscot and Lynn has, and Lynn Water and Sewer Commission have had administrative orders forcing us to use a remediation effort effort that has slowly, incrementally started to address the impairment to the pipes.

But, you know, that process is going to take many, many more years. And I think it's unfair that this generation, frankly, doesn't get broader state and federal investment. Other regions have been able to work more successfully with their legislative delegation and with state and federal agencies to get these types of major capital investments to help address the impairment.

And so we've looked at a few of those beaches and we've seen how well the type of investments, such as extending an outfall can be in terms of remediating the impact. And we've looked to model that same type of advocacy and investment. So I think part of the answer is we just gotta ask louder or perhaps more effectively.

Lastly, the stakeholder group, you know, as I mentioned earlier, comprised of municipal officials from Lynn Water and Sewer, Town of Swampskate, our local, state, and federal legislative delegations, including former Representative Ehrlich's office, legislative office, Senator Creighton's office, and Congressman Moulton's office. We've had representatives from MassDEP. We've had representatives from the EPA.

We've had other state agencies involved. We've had Save the Harbor, Save the Bay involved. And we've had other municipal officials involved.

So it's been a big, broad, I think, diverse stakeholder group. A lot of the work, though, gets done, frankly, by Kleinfelder and a small group of, of individuals that are really keeping the work moving forward in between the stakeholder meetings.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:15 - 1:27:59)
So, Christopher, I appreciate you attending tonight on Zoom and the advocacy that you've been part of for that area and the cleanup that you've been involved with and organizing. And I think that it's important to stay in touch and certainly stay connected with us and the town administrator. This is still early in the process, and your group and Save Kings Beach have been pivotal and also moving this forward.

So I think that stay connected with us on this and certainly feedback and participation is gonna be needed going forward. And thanks for your questions and comments tonight.

[Speaker 8] (1:28:00 - 1:28:03)
Is there a way to be part of the steering committee?

[Speaker 1] (1:28:06 - 1:28:27)
I mean, you know, I think at this point, you know, the steering committee has been established, but certainly would welcome you to reach out to me. And, you know, we can use all the help we can get. And I'd be happy to, you know, talk about a way that you can help us, you know, address some of these challenges.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:27 - 1:28:31)
Is the Harbor Advisory Committee involved in this?

[Speaker 1] (1:28:31 - 1:28:49)
No. I do wanna just recognize Chris Mancini here from Save the Harbor, Save the Bay. Chris is a member of the steering group and stakeholder group.

He's also a Swampskid resident. So, yeah, that's great.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:50 - 1:28:51)
You're a part of the steering group? Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:54 - 1:29:04)
I just wanted you on the mic just because people at home can't hear me. You can sit down if you want to sit, yeah. Thanks for coming.

[Speaker 6] (1:29:04 - 1:32:00)
Yeah, absolutely. No, I was looking forward to it. And I just wanted to make sure I was here to thank the town manager for all your advocacy in these steering committee meetings.

We've seen from where I, I've been at Save the Harbor six years, but, you know, followed the outfall situation. I only half jokingly say I moved to Swampscot to help clean up King's Beach. My predecessor at Save the Harbor helped turn South Boston's beaches into some of the cleanest urban beaches in the country.

And to one of the previous questions, you know, why did Lynn and Swampscot get left out of that? You know, we were outside the MWRA's watershed and that whole process was paid for by 43 different cities and towns. We're on our own system.

But what I will say is that right now, there's, as we all are fairly aware of, I think there's a lot of federal money there and there's no shovel-ready projects in Massachusetts. If we have a shovel-ready project, like the UV, which looks so promising, if that proves effective after the visit of Newport and the tests that Kleinfelder sent off to Trojan Labs, that, you know, that'll, I don't know how fast the turnaround time is for like that to be, but personally, I'm not worried about the actual paying for it. It's really just all this momentum coming forward is the biggest promising thing we've seen so far.

I just wanted to amplify one other thing that you pointed out, Sean, was with the IDDE work, the ongoing stormwater assessment and the pipe remediation, the lining, the work that both Lynn and Swampscot, well, Swampscot's been doing for a number of years and Lynn is really getting a lot of momentum on now. As you said, that's gotta keep happening. That's required no matter what.

So it's almost like we need two solutions. And it's because we have a strange situation here. We have a natural waterway as part of the stormwater system, unlike in, say, East Boston, where Constitution Beach has a 90% open rate.

It's just got outfalls for the stormwater. We have all that pooling in the natural waterways. We have all that dry weather flow.

So even fixing, we're just not confident that fixing all the pipes perfectly will even solve that, which is why I'm looking into the secondary situation. And on that one chart, that 90% for Swampscot's effectiveness, that's just on the Swampscot pipe. Like I said, we don't know what we need.

Kleinfelder's pretty confident. I spoke with him actually earlier this week because I had a bunch of questions about that presentation too. That in five years, once phase two of the lining project is done, that the Swampscot pipe will be 90% clean, mostly for dry weather days.

You also need the linsides to be clean that much to have the beach open 90%.

[Speaker 1] (1:32:00 - 1:33:10)
We can do all this wonderful work in five years in Swampscot and still have failure. And so for me, that would be incredibly frustrating, incredibly depressing that we would spend all these dollars and still have the same situation that we have today. And so we've really started to pull together, I think, a group.

And Chris, you've been great and I'm glad you moved to Swampscot. But to me, it's the leadership that we missed. Like if I had to kind of go back, it's not MWI.

I respectfully disagree. I think part of it is we just have to make this a priority. We have to, as a region, say enough.

This is a problem we can solve. We've gotta work with our local, state, and federal officials and say, hey, we're gonna put a shovel-ready project right before you and we want you to help us solve that problem. So we can give this region a sense that that historic resource area can be brought back to what it once was.

[Speaker 4] (1:33:10 - 1:33:14)
Is Newport the only area that has that disinfection system?

[Speaker 1] (1:33:14 - 1:33:26)
They have the best recent investment in that technology. And so they're the best example at a magnitude of the size that we would need.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:29 - 1:34:48)
So I just wanna reiterate what Chris just said. When Christopher was asking why did other communities, and just your answer, what happened, that was MWRA, but really it's advocacy. And to your second point of what you said.

In a former life, I was on the board of the Boston Harbor Association before it merged. And if Vivian wasn't there every day doing what Vivian did, there's an army behind Vivian. So I'm just using Vivian as an example.

And now it falls to you. Now you're another iteration, the newer generation iteration of doing it. And the fact that you live here is awesome news to me because, Chris, I didn't know that.

But it matters because that is what it is. It is, Sean, you waking up and on your own being round up that you're focusing on that and finding the time of the day to do it. It's the fact that you run down here after you're cooking dinner and balancing six things to come down here.

I mean, that's truly what it is. It's pressure. It is pressure and keeping the pressure on that.

And that's how Vivian did it. And she unapologetically was in everyone's face and she made everyone uneasy about not making the right decision, right? And everybody has their own style and their way of doing it.

She was awesome, right? But the fact that you're here and can supplement and help is, and that you're part of this conversation is reaffirming to me. So it's great.

Well, great.

[Speaker 6] (1:34:49 - 1:34:59)
Well, I'm happy to do it and it's kind of fun, so. What'd you make for dinner? It was for tween, so it was mac and cheese.

Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:00 - 1:35:02)
You don't have to answer. I knew by your laugh. It was.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:04 - 1:35:15)
Thanks, Chris, really. Yeah, thank you for coming. Thank you.

Look, I expect, again, in a few weeks, we'll be back. Chris, I'll invite you to come back with Kleinfelder and we'll talk about where do we go from here. Great.

[Speaker 14] (1:35:15 - 1:35:16)
Will you be on that field trip?

[Speaker 6] (1:35:17 - 1:35:17)
What?

[Speaker 14] (1:35:17 - 1:35:19)
Will you be on that field trip tomorrow?

[Speaker 6] (1:35:19 - 1:35:26)
I'd like, I was trying to see if I could make it. I'd be eager to go, yeah. Thanks, Sean.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:26 - 1:35:28)
Excellent, thanks, Sean. Thank you, Chris, for coming down.

[Speaker 6] (1:35:28 - 1:35:29)
Thank you very much. Yeah, absolutely.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:30 - 1:36:35)
All right, so last item on the agenda is our board and committee handbook revisions. This is a second read and potential vote for approval of the revisions recommended edits from town council. We had a first read, I think, two meetings ago, maybe three.

And so we've had a chance to look at all of these red lines and this is just a vote. These handbooks were approved by the board in the spring, so this is a vote to approve or discuss the red lines that are now part of it. So I'll leave it open to the board.

We can go one manual at a time and page numbers if people have questions or comments. And if not, then I would accept a motion at any time.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:39 - 1:36:43)
Is this, what is this sheet here?

[Speaker 3] (1:36:43 - 1:36:57)
That's the, I sent an email. There was one addition in the code of conduct on page 14 at the end of, there's a list of.

[Speaker 15] (1:36:57 - 1:36:59)
I'm not sure, I don't remember.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:02 - 1:37:03)
Section 6E.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:04 - 1:37:36)
Yeah, section 6E of the code of conduct. There's a list of potential disciplinary measures for committee members. And the question was asked of town council during this review period of can removal of the board be one of those on that list?

And they provided an answer that it can be in that suggested language, the last item on that list. So that's the only new.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:36 - 1:37:38)
The last bullet point.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:38 - 1:38:02)
The last bullet point on the list. The only new language there. Everything else is, and on the printed sheet that you have, Mary Ellen, the red lines aren't there.

They're basically the changes are accepted on that.

[Speaker 14] (1:38:02 - 1:38:04)
This just came in this afternoon?

[Speaker 3] (1:38:05 - 1:38:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:07 - 1:38:09)
Just the last bullet though is the only new language.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:09 - 1:38:12)
Yeah, the only thing that's new is that last bullet point.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:14 - 1:38:16)
And town council approved that?

[Speaker 3] (1:38:17 - 1:38:18)
Correct, yeah, they did.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:26 - 1:43:28)
So I would like to talk about a topic that shows up in multiple places and town council flagged it and said this language can be difficult to enforce or difficult to do, and that has to do with actually what you let off the evening with which had to do with public comment and how we handle public comment and the rules of public comment. I believe strongly in the need for public comment, but I also think there's productive and there's unproductive and I think what the rules and regs here and code of conduct's trying to create is an environment that allows for productive conversation. Public comment where someone comes to chastise us knowing that we're not going to respond or to say things to embarrass people when they know we're not gonna respond, I don't find to be very productive.

Coming and talking about town staff, I don't find appropriate or productive. Coming to make a political statement beyond anything reasonable for what we're doing here, I don't find productive. The school committee has a, and maybe the way to resolve this is the school committee does have a sign-up sheet and the school committee's very clear about the fact that it's a public meeting, not a public hearing, and public comment is welcomed at their discretion when they decide to do it and they hold it and they have a sign-in sheet for it.

I just think that we just need to give more thought as to how we handle it so that we encourage productive. Productive criticism, for sure, right? I do give credit for people who get off the couch and get off social media and take the time to, some cases come all the way from Florida to criticise us.

I give credit for that. I think that's really important. I think that criticism is actually more fair than those that actually don't show up.

So this is not about having people not show up. It's about doing it in a way that doesn't have people like their recent meeting sit through a meeting and then decide that they need to give us their narrative of how the meeting just went. For them to characterise certain things that happened in the meeting and they know that we're gonna sit there and be quiet.

I just don't think that it's productive. And so I just, town council in both, I think that doesn't do anything for tonight. I think we can improve these.

I have no problem approving these. I just think as though they flagged that once we open the door, we open the door, right? And I think we have to recognise that, and that's okay.

And I wanna open the door, but I wanna also figure out a way to make it productive. Because it's increasingly not productive. It's increasingly caustic.

Increasingly, it's offensive. Increasingly, it's being used to welcome things that people are comfortable saying in their pyjamas, on the park or lounge or on social media and deciding to come here and now start saying them here, knowing that we're gonna sit there and just listen and not say anything. And I don't think us just sitting and not saying anything is gonna change the culture, right?

I think as though COVID might've taught a new culture, right, and people can sit at home and just raise their virtual hands. They don't have to have to be here. So I do appreciate those that make the effort to be here to criticise us.

But I really would like us to engage in some kind of conversation about that so we can find a productive path that allows free-flowing, good conversation, but not inappropriate, not disrespectful conversation. I don't care that I'm an elected official, right? I don't care, and that does not give someone a right to unilaterally and universally say whatever, whenever and however they want about me, about you, about you, about you, and about you, about the volunteers that we signed up for tonight.

A microphone in public comment does not give that license. It just doesn't. And I have expressed to people a number of times, go ahead and criticise me all you want, right?

There's consequences of the criticism, especially when they're unfair, but that's okay. It's not about the criticism. It's about unfairness of it and finding a way to have productive dialogues here.

And I think as though that is not being used properly. And I think we've seen it in recent public comments. We saw it when the police union showed up and decided to use public comment at that point in time to talk about something that's not on our agenda.

No one's prepared to talk about it outside the chain of command to make political statements. It's just not a good use of public comment. We've got to figure out a way.

And I don't know the answer and town council doesn't give us the answer, but we're going sideways. And I think it's doing a real disservice to the town. I think we've heard from employees who feel abused at select meetings, at select board meetings, excuse me, because people are talking about certain things, whether it's the rep commission or whether or not it's an event in town or whether or not it's something that they don't like.

And our job should be to create an environment that is free of that hostility. Not free of the criticism, free of the hostility. And I just really, I don't know the answer, but I would like us to engage in that thoughtful conversation.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:31 - 1:45:40)
Yeah, I think, I mean, the one example, you know, I've been to a lot of public meetings for my job and I do at a lot of other, I think a signup sheet is a good idea just for running a meeting too. It sort of, it makes sense that again, that's not a solution. I think some of the guidelines, like reminding people of the guidelines, like I did tonight, I think we need to continue to have that reminder before, because, and I think I've failed at that since becoming the chair.

And I think that's really important just to set the expectations of what it is. I think one other small way to remind people is, you know, I think that having some summary of guidelines on the agenda of what public comment is and isn't is important just so it's on the printed agenda. So when people are looking and deciding they wanna come for public comment, they see it there.

I think we could have, you know, I've seen other towns have information about public comment on the select board website. It is, but it is a challenge and it's not, it's one that I think is, you know, one that we're facing specifically right now and recently handling, but I think that all municipalities face this issue with public comment and how to manage it and make sure that we're allowing people the ability to speak on issues that are important to them and have that participation, but also not abuse it. So I think I'm happy to have that conversation and welcome ideas on how to, you know, to promote civil and public discourse and not stifle it for sure.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:41 - 1:47:35)
So I would like, if we can just find the time to continue this dialogue tonight, we're not gonna have the answers and ask council questions about what we can do in that way. For example, in the world of hybrid meetings, do public comment have to be allowed hybrid or do you have to be in person? I just point why that's relevant is because certain people will show up in person and say things and for some reason they don't use words like oligarch or dictator or king or use caustic names to describe people on this board.

Employees, employees' spouses, things of that nature, call things, call people things, use the comfort of their home behind a screen or a Zoom to feel like they can say certain things and to all those people, they should come here and use all those same words. If those words are appropriate, they should come here and put their face on TV with the rest of us and use those words if they're appropriate. If they're not, then leave them out of your script and don't say them at home either because there's real consequence to it.

There are people who, there's reasons we have vacancies in committees. I mean. It's just committees.

Committees everywhere. It's everywhere. Staff.

It's staff. And to have staff berated. I'm just, again, criticism's appropriate.

Saying something once, saying something 10 times, saying something 20 times, then we're doing it a little differently, right? It's no longer criticism, it's theater. It's just a verbal battering ram.

By the way, watch Facebook later tonight because I'm sure there'll be a verbal battering ram about what I'm saying tonight. It's gotta stop. It is the most unproductive behavior.

You hear? Complaining is not the same as doing something. People need to start doing something.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:35 - 1:49:50)
You're on to something. This is not just happening in swamps. It's happening throughout the country.

And I think we need to think about what does this mean for democracy? What does it mean for our civilized society? What lessons are we teaching our young citizens?

It really isn't about showing up and deconstructing everything. There are some legitimate and fair criticisms. I'm very much mindful that we're not perfect.

And I'm absolutely willing to listen to people. I always respect the people that actually come into my office and sit down and say, hey, I have a concern about something. Or I'd like to hear more about something.

I do have an open door. I do meet with citizens that actually demonstrate good faith and they show up and they'll have a concern about an issue. And they will respectfully work within a degree of decorum that reflects, I think, the standards that we wanna have as a community.

Most of our citizens, by the way, purport themselves in that very way. But they really do. And I think it's the exception that sometimes we have to focus on because it does become part of an activity.

It's almost like sport, where they see this as their main activity and it checks a box. It's unfortunate because we see that vitriol more and more in society and it's not just in our local government. It's part of national politics as well.

And it's not healthy. And it does undermine a lot of the good faith efforts that we have in public service. That said, I do think there's probably some strategies that we can employ that keep faith with ensuring that the public has a chance to share.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:50 - 1:49:50)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:51 - 1:50:24)
Input, and we have an affirmative responsibility. I think that gets back to, we have an affirmative responsibility to protect the public space to ensure that it's safe and it's respectful and it's mindful and thoughtful about ensuring that everybody feels comfortable speaking in public and not being assailed for simply having a different opinion or doing something that may not be perfect in somebody else's eyes.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:25 - 1:50:26)
So Mr. Chairman?

[Speaker 1] (1:50:27 - 1:50:28)
Yes. Can I speak? Of course.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:29 - 1:52:42)
So many people know that I spent close to 10 years with long periods of time in communist nations where people didn't have the opportunity to stand up at Resident Common and say a word. So when I hear us talking about controlling comments, it frightens me. When I hear a resident stand up and say that he or she is very disappointed in how I voted, I love hearing that, and I wanna hear that.

When I hear employees come in and say they have an issue or they wanna clarify things that they've heard, that doesn't frighten me. When I hear members of this board speak to each other in a disrespectful way or speak to you, the town administrator, or any other employee in a disrespectful way, that frightens me. So I don't have a problem with Resident Common.

I do have a problem with taking cheap shots or being nasty to each other. There's a way to do this. But controlling what the public has to say is not something that I really wanna get super involved with.

I think being respectful is one thing, but controlling thought or comments, I want to find out another way to even be able to say how can we have more engagement? So if someone comes for a public comment, and they make a public comment, and then we just sit here, and possibly we should be doing something a little bit differently, that possibly two members should be available that they can have a conversation and to engage more public comment rather than trying to restrict it. And I'm sorry, I don't wanna hear anybody call somebody an oligarch or whatever people have been called but I want more public comment, I want more engagement.

And I'm not on Facebook, so say whatever you want about me tonight.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:43 - 1:53:00)
Respectfully, you are on Facebook, but no one said controlling comments or controlling thoughts. Those were your words and they sound like good sound bites that we say if we're talking about controlling words or controlling thoughts, that's frightening. No one was talking about being frightened.

What I'm saying is that it is unproductive.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:01 - 1:53:02)
Right, that's your opinion.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:02 - 1:55:31)
Two Saturdays ago, someone sat on a monument with a sign with my name on it, quoting something that someone else said at a meeting. I know that because my kid told me about it and then showed me the social media stream of all his friends sharing the picture of a woman sitting there doing it. I don't care, you can sit on the monument, you can say whatever you want.

I've told someone who's a constant, constant person that barrages me verbally that it has impacted my wife, that has impacted my kids. It has done nothing to stop the verbal barrage. They can keep doing it.

I'm not even asking for that. I'm saying in this forum, for us to find a productive way to make sure, I do disagree. I think us sitting here quietly, letting someone disrespectful, misframe, misinform, and then for us to have to then sit quietly and then reset agendas so that we're just getting out the right information, is I don't think a good use of time.

This is not about trying to limit the First Amendment. And so I appreciate where you've lived and the experiences you've had. I've actually said in every paragraph, I think we should be doing more better.

It's about the fact that it's not productive. And respectfully, I am concerned when an employee shows up here out of the chain of command and talks about something like that. I am concerned about that because that is not our role.

It is counterproductive. We are actually undermining the role of government. We're underwriting the chain of command.

And actually, I wish to flush that out because there are actually some very clear provisions in the stuff that we're about to vote on that make sure that we are going to respect the chain of command, that we are going to understand. It's not about being frightened about it, but it's about the fact that we can't handle, we can't run a town, we can't expect professionals to run a town. If we just allow certain things to happen, like employees coming outside the chain of command, they have every right and First Amendment rights to do things, that's great.

Whether we promote it though and we advance it is a different situation. So again, I appreciate your opinions. You and I have a slightly different view.

Again, no one was talking about controlling thought or controlling comment. But I believe there would be a more productive way for us to be able to have conversation. And I, as much as anybody, can take criticism and I probably get it as much as anybody.

And at some point, you will as well. And it comes with a job. It's okay, criticism's okay.

And I'm really comfortable with it. But it's gone beyond criticism now. And it's totally unproductive.

[Speaker 3] (1:55:33 - 1:57:39)
So I think clearly there's a lot to talk about on this topic and I think we should address it. I think it's important to remember that we're talking about public comment at a select board meeting. So that's a very specific part of an agenda of a select board meeting.

As Peter pointed out, it's not a public hearing. I think if you do, as I have, and I'm sure you have too, but if you go to other town handbooks or guidelines or websites on their public meetings, there are similar parameters that are set up for public comment. And it's not about controlling thought or stifling ideas.

It's about managing a meeting and using public comment for what it's meant to be, which is one opportunity for residents to provide an opinion on something that may be on the agenda or not. But it's not meant to be a public hearing on anything and then sort of an endless debate on things. So I think that that's actually what it's meant to be.

And that's not unique here. That's how all towns approach public comment. And so I think we should have this conversation and I invite the input from everyone and ways that we can manage it and to have productive comments and productive dialogue is I think in everyone's best interest and what everyone wants in the end.

So I appreciate the conversation tonight. I think if you wanna go back to the Board and Committee handbooks and if anyone has any questions or comments on any of the other red lines on any of these, then let's discuss those.

[Speaker 2] (1:57:40 - 1:58:01)
Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion to approve the Board and Committee handbook, the Board Code of Conduct and the Select Board handbook as presented in our packets with that one change in Town Council, the last bullet added to Section 6E of the Code of Conduct, which says removal consistent with and to the extent allowed by applicable law, charter, provision or bylaw.

[Speaker 3] (1:58:02 - 1:58:03)
I'll second.

[Speaker 2] (1:58:03 - 1:58:04)
Second.

[Speaker 3] (1:58:04 - 1:58:11)
All those in favor? Aye. Aye.

Opposed? Opposed. Okay, great.

[Speaker 2] (1:58:12 - 1:58:32)
So Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask a procedural question. Under the, I guess a couple of things. You actually went to vote without seeing if there was more time for comment.

Oh, I'm sorry, I apologize. I'm just now interested in knowing where the vote was. Are there specific things that the dissenter wants to raise as concerns that they're not comfortable with having in the handbook?

[Speaker 4] (1:58:33 - 1:58:39)
I'm not comfortable with this last paragraph coming in and I would like time to think about it.

[Speaker 2] (1:58:39 - 1:59:10)
Great. And this wasn't- Mr. Chairman, I would like to then modify my motion because I'm happy to. I think it's very important to have unanimity where it can be had in this because all of us, once the board does pass it by a majority vote, it requires all of us to sign it and to live by these rules.

And I think the best rules are those that, again, achieve the goals and that we're all on board with. And I don't want there to be a dissenter because at the end of the day, we all need to sign it once we adopt this.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:10 - 1:59:14)
We actually don't have to sign it. We just have to notify the clerk and the clerk representative and that's it.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:16 - 1:59:24)
Okay. If these are the board's rules and regulations, we are, once the board approves them, the board is agreeing to live by them.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:25 - 1:59:28)
Oh, I, that's all good with me.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:28 - 2:00:19)
I mean, if you- No, as long as substantively, you and I agree on that point, which is once tonight, I'm actually trying to roll back it to give you a chance to get comfortable with language so you're not at the center on- Oh, I really appreciate that. If you would like to be at the center, that's fine. But I think it's important because we are all going to be obliged to live by these.

And so I just want to make sure. So in that vein, Mr. Chairman, I would change my motion, if that's okay, to undo my last motion and reconsider it and reconsider for passage of just the committee rules and regulations and the select board rules and regulations and table the code of conduct so that one bullet that was added tonight, members can spend more time thinking about before they vote on it.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:20 - 2:00:27)
Okay, do I have a second for that motion? Go ahead.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:28 - 2:00:39)
No, I have a question. Okay, so the question is, where is this, where was this bullet actually supposed to go into? Because I couldn't get to my emails after the late afternoon.

[Speaker 2] (2:00:39 - 2:00:41)
Section 16. Code of conduct.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:41 - 2:00:47)
Section 6E on the code of conduct, which is, I know the page numbers aren't there, but it's.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:48 - 2:00:49)
6E under enforcement.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:50 - 2:00:51)
It's right before the. Correct.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:51 - 2:00:52)
Enforcement.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:52 - 2:01:10)
Yeah, under enforcement, yeah. And it's towards the bottom is a list of, there's a bulleted list of disciplinary measures. And that one was added, which was removal.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:10 - 2:01:13)
Okay, so this is, your motion is just to remove this right now.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:13 - 2:01:14)
That's the only thing that was added.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:15 - 2:01:20)
My motion right now doesn't ask for a vote in the code of conduct so that you have time to review that.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:22 - 2:01:28)
Okay, so is there a second, any more questions on that? Or a second on the motion?

[Speaker 4] (2:01:34 - 2:01:35)
Oh, I'll second it.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:36 - 2:01:51)
Okay, any more discussion on the motion? So this is a motion to accept the select board procedures, policies, and regulations, select and the board and committee handbook and to table the code of conduct.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:52 - 2:02:24)
Yeah, just give me a second, please. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. Sorry, one more second.

[Speaker 3] (2:02:45 - 2:02:47)
Is there something you're looking for, Peter, that I could, I have the.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:48 - 2:03:09)
No, I'm good. Just give me one second. Sorry.

Someone wants to hum, that'd be nice. Go ahead, yeah. Actually, do you mind if we just table and go on to the county administrator's report and then come back with this?

Just that way we're all nice.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:09 - 2:03:10)
Everyone okay with that? Can I get each other?

[Speaker 2] (2:03:11 - 2:03:11)
Sure, sure.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:12 - 2:12:06)
Thanks. All right. So our housing production plan is being updated and next Monday, August 29th at 6.30 p.m., we'll have a meeting to discuss our draft housing production plan and seek community input. I would encourage folks to really participate in that meeting and get involved in, you know, thinking about our responsibility to really support additional housing in Swampskip. There's a link on our website and there's an agenda and a Zoom link on our town meeting calendar. Discussed Kings Beach earlier.

As I mentioned, you know, we'll be heading down to Newport, Rhode Island next Wednesday. That was a $10 million UV investment that Newport made in their drainage system that seems to be working out very well. We are following the same testing protocols as DCR, as I mentioned earlier.

We are looking at additional interactive signage like sofa signs, signs in a number of communities. I've asked staff to look at our zoning and see if we can actually find some opportunity to get more information out, not just about Kings Beach, but various town initiatives. Pleased to report that our new interim assessor, which Simmons has started to work this week, took him for a tour around town yesterday and we discussed a number of key properties he's already started to work in and really look at our valuations and our existing zoning areas.

Hadley School, or the Stanley School continues to move forward through demolition. We are working on our new Blaney School parking plan. I did receive confirmation yesterday from Anthony Athanas that he will provide some parking for the teachers, so I wanna thank Anthony Athanas.

You know, this will be at no charge to the town and he has simply asked that we take care of a couple of potholes in the parking lot for safety reasons and Gino and I walked through the parking lot today. We have put out new signage and have really moved forward with a temporary traffic plan. I wanna thank Officer Wilson, Officer Locke for the engagement.

We had a meeting this week with PTOs, members of the school community, and I really do think Chief Cassata and police department have done a good job engaging the community and really thinking about ways to help support pedestrian safety. All hands will be on deck next week. As we begin school, we'll have additional staff and both police and fire department staff will be out in full force to ensure that we have a safe traffic management plan for the school.

Yesterday I worked with a group of our veterans, our DAV, American Legion, VFW, and our veterans agent. Our second monthly meeting to talk about facilities. Steve Cummings, our building commissioner, and Max Gasper, our facilities director, walked through the VFW and identified a number of capital improvements needs of the VFW building.

The roof likely needs to be replaced. Mechanical systems need to be updated. Certainly ADA and access needs.

We did have a productive discussion about some of the operating budget needs of the VFW. A number of the agencies, whether DAV or VFW, all are working in that facility, and we've agreed to have additional meetings over the next few months at the senior center, at the library, and perhaps a number of other town departments just to reach out and try to get more synergies among these various groups. No reports of coyotes over the last few weeks, so we're hoping that folks are not feeding them, and we are continuing to keep a healthy balance between wildlife and our neighborhoods.

Really wanna thank our recreation team and recreation director Danielle Strauss for getting up the SUP program. It has been a really successful program. Windsor Ave Playground had a grand opening in early August.

We have a family day planned for Saturday, October 27th. This is a free, no-cost, low-cost family event, and would encourage folks to take advantage of that. A lot of fun games and family activities.

DPW is working hard, working on a number of sidewalk projects around town. We have completed the Walker Road improvements with new granite curbs and other roadway improvements. We have a contract with Black Earth to provide shoe-free drop-off locations to town residents for organics and compounds as part of our waste reduction strategy.

You have to pre-register for a code, and Black Earth also offers a residential drop-off and pick-up. You can contact Black Earth Compost for additional information. We continue to work with boards and committees.

I continue to work with Diane. Diane's done a good job reaching out to committee chairs, and she's following up with anybody that is looking to serve on committees. We still have a number of committees that have vacancies, so I would encourage individuals to reach out and fill out the online form.

I met with our All Ages director, Heidi Weir, today, along with a retired library director to sign an agreement with Sea Glass Village. This is a village of volunteers that can help us connect to residents in ways that go beyond the level of service that we currently provide. For instance, we can pick up residents and drop them off for shopping, but we can't go into their homes.

The drivers just simply don't have the time, and volunteers from Sea Glass Village can actually help residents put away groceries, help them cook meals, help them shovel out if they need that type of assistance. We really do need individuals to volunteer and help us with just filling the gaps between levels of service for our seniors, and Sea Glass Village is an organization that really is supporting some of those important areas of need. We also are encouraging residents to plant and maintain trees.

So if you wanna make a contribution to the town, we will help you put a tree in your property or on your tree line. We have a link, swamps.ma.gov, backslash tree dash committee, to get more information about planting trees with all of the heat. We need more shade, and certainly, these trees help support a healthy, vibrant wildlife for swamps.

Lastly, on a serious note, we continue to get information about monkey pox. Certainly, our former FDA commissioner says that we need to spend more time thinking about the clusters. We're seeing additional cases.

I don't want to alarm folks, but I do want folks to know that we are monitoring it, and our public health team continues to track cases across the Commonwealth. That's my report.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:08 - 2:12:10)
Any questions for Sean?

[Speaker 5] (2:12:11 - 2:12:29)
Yeah, I had a couple questions, Sean. Just really about the composting and the number of participants that we're seeing from within the town's black earth compost, and was just curious to see if you had any analytics or data as to what's being pulled out of our solid waste stream.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:30 - 2:12:38)
I don't have that offhand, Dave. I can get that information to you as early as tomorrow. I'll get it from Jeff Vaughn.

He has some.

[Speaker 5] (2:12:38 - 2:13:01)
Yeah, and I think it would be great to have that information, and I know for a while, when we made the change from the larger barrels to the smaller barrels, we were reporting, and we were kind of tracking to what we were expecting, and I'm just curious as to whether we can just have an update there, and as to whether the Solid Waste Advisory Committee could also speak to that.

[Speaker 1] (2:13:01 - 2:13:19)
I can pull some of that data. I know that we typically track that. We have that data monthly, and I can go back and kind of take a look at.

In fact, we have that data over a 10-year span, and we know every month how it changes, and I'll put a presentation together and give the board an update.

[Speaker 4] (2:13:19 - 2:13:25)
Actually, solid waste is coming September 7th, so we can get you all those numbers. Perfect, thank you.

[Speaker 5] (2:13:26 - 2:13:39)
Yeah, and just determining how we can increase participation within this program is something that's gonna be incredibly important as we're seeing positive progress towards reduction in our solid waste stream.

[Speaker 1] (2:13:39 - 2:14:54)
Frankly, if we could somehow subsidize and offer composting for every resident, and if it was financially feasible, I would love to do that. It's just right now very costly. We also provide more lawn and leaf pickup than most communities, and so it's interesting.

We have a lot of costs still that are high for waste that we generate, and so there may be some other, maybe we give in some areas and take in some others. To me, it's all about a balance. We've heard, too, that sometimes removing all the leaves impacts environmental.

Leave the leaves. Habitat areas, so there may be some public education that we need to get out about leaving more of the leaves, and perhaps if we can save with the amount of pickups that we have for picking up the leaves, maybe we can convert that into organics that might help us reduce the overall tonnage in the solid waste stream. So all worth talking about, trash talking.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:56 - 2:14:59)
Any other questions for Sean on his report?

[Speaker 4] (2:15:00 - 2:15:07)
I just have one question. Was there any renting of those paddle boards this year?

[Speaker 1] (2:15:09 - 2:15:11)
I don't believe we rented any of the paddle boards.

[Speaker 4] (2:15:12 - 2:15:15)
And is that a possibility, well, I'm sure it's a possibility.

[Speaker 1] (2:15:15 - 2:15:30)
It's my hope. I actually, it was my hope that we could actually just allow some residents to utilize them. So I'm certainly eager to see more of those boards used.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:33 - 2:15:34)
All right, thanks, Sean.

[Speaker 1] (2:15:34 - 2:15:38)
I think I suggested we have a select board meeting on paddle boards at some point.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:38 - 2:15:58)
Oh, you bet. Something. Yeah, it'd be something.

So if there are no other questions or comments for Sean, we can go back to, Peter, I don't know if you found what you were looking for there on the handbooks.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:58 - 2:17:08)
Yeah, so thank you. I'm sorry for that. I actually think I would like to, in going back to the three handbooks that we're only gonna put on two tonight, I think there is lack of clarity and certainly lack of direction as to what could be done with these books.

Since we need them, and so I want to suggest that we, each of them include an acknowledgment, almost the same wording, but each of them do include an acknowledgment that I guess I would like to revise my motion to the motion to approve the boarding committee handbook and the select board handbook with the additional instructions that the town administrator requests that the clerk notify all boarding committee members and select board members that all select board members and committee members are to sign and return the relevant handbook by September 30th. I'm saying September 30th because we're not approving the code tonight.

You can do that in two weeks and that will stay with pretty much the whole month of September for someone to review the code of conduct as well. I just think it's important to, what are we doing with these now that we created them? I don't want them to be put in drawers and not done anything with them.

[Speaker 5] (2:17:08 - 2:17:23)
So that would be my revised motion. Thanks for your patience. Question here.

So based upon that revised language, what happens if someone that the select board appoints is unwilling or unable to sign? What happens in that instance?

[Speaker 3] (2:17:26 - 2:17:34)
It's not in the book. So it's just on record. That's what it is.

So right now, that's my understanding.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:35 - 2:17:42)
I think it says earlier there that if you choose to not sign, it's just noted with the clerk. It's noted with the clerk that you choose to win.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:42 - 2:17:46)
I guess I need you to point me to that language. I apologize. I tried to find the language you made earlier.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:46 - 2:17:48)
Oh, I'm not going to be going through all this here.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:48 - 2:17:50)
I just don't recall seeing that. I didn't see it either.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:50 - 2:17:55)
Okay, so maybe I read it in one of the earlier thing. I mean, I read it somewhere.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:58 - 2:18:15)
So, I mean, again, I think this is a good conversation. I want to be clear. If we're adopting the handbook, this is the rule book, right?

As the appointing authority for those committees, this is the rule book of decorum and behavior.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:16 - 2:18:37)
So this is the rule book. The rule book's in front of you. Whether or not someone signs it or not doesn't change the rule.

So if you have someone who says, listen, I'm not signing anything, then it doesn't change the rules. You don't have to sign it. You're given the book, and that's the way it is.

I don't know why you have to get hung up on signing it or not.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:37 - 2:19:29)
You're given the book. Well, I think there's actually, well, again, I'm not being signed on anything, but let's use the board and committee handbook. The acknowledgment actually says, your signature acknowledges that you've read the committee and board handbook, and you agreed to the terms outlined herein.

Your signature also certifies upon your official appointment you have returned the following documents to the clerk's office, a signed copy of the open meeting laws receipt, a signed oath affirmation found in the bottom of the appointment letter to the down clerk, a certificate of completion confirming the online ethics training, and a signed copy of the board and committee's code of conduct. So I'm not making a big deal out of it. I'm saying that he's actually saying these things, and I just want to give operational instructions so that someone does something with these.

Otherwise, we're voting these, and they just do what? I'm just giving instructions to make sure that every board and committee member gets it, and they know when they need to.

[Speaker 4] (2:19:30 - 2:20:00)
I think if every board and committee has this, if you're on a board and committee, and this has been voted on, then you know you're responsible to follow those rules. I don't, if someone says, listen, I'm not going to sign anything, you don't have to sign it, but you are responsible for it. I guess I don't see the big deal in signing it.

I have, there are plenty of rules that are out there, and not everybody has to sign away.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:00 - 2:20:58)
I don't think it should be something that gets hung up, but they're required to sign the open meeting materials. They're required to sign the open affirmation of the letter when they are appointed by us. They're required to complete and confirm the ethics training.

I'm just saying, this is consistent with other things that committee and board members are required to do. And again, I'm not proposing something that hasn't been in a document that you were about to vote yes for five minutes ago. So I mean, I'm just, don't make it sound like I'm now all of a sudden concerned about something.

I'm not, it is in the document. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to make sure that this, when we vote on it, doesn't go in the desk drawer. And I want to make sure also that when we vote on it, people understand that these are the rules and that it's when it comes time to hold someone accountable because they voted for it or they signed it and they decide to not follow it, that they're going to be held accountable.

Otherwise the rules mean nothing.

[Speaker 4] (2:20:58 - 2:21:41)
Right, so then I guess I would be thinking about, I mean, how many committees have really sat down? Because I'm just wondering, are there people out there that are opposed to signing something or opposed to what different rules might be or what disciplinary actions would be? You know, I guess that's really what runs through my mind.

I mean, as you can see, I don't have problems following rules. I mean, I'm pretty good about following rules. But I question, you know, putting an enforcement on people that you have to sign this when they haven't had an opportunity to really say, well, I'm not really sure some of these rules are, you know, what should be followed or.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:42 - 2:21:47)
But play that through then for me. So if they decide they don't want to follow the rules, then what is the point of the rules?

[Speaker 4] (2:21:47 - 2:21:56)
Well, I think what we're talking about, I'm talking about actually signing. You're saying, if you don't sign this, then what? That's, if you don't sign it, then what?

[Speaker 2] (2:21:57 - 2:22:14)
Right, and so, but again, I'm just, my motion just asks them to sign it. I don't have the then what part of this, but if they are required to sign certain things, I don't want to certainly create, the same with us, by the way. Let's not even talk about other board and committees.

Let's talk about us because it's the easier thing to talk about.

[Speaker 15] (2:22:14 - 2:22:14)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:14 - 2:22:31)
If I don't sign it, right, as a committee member, like, I think that's something of consequence. I don't think we should have quiet, that quiet comfort that later on, I'm not gonna come back and say, well, now you're trying to enforce a rule on me that I didn't sign anything. If you signed it, I didn't sign it, and I don't want to deal with that.

[Speaker 4] (2:22:31 - 2:22:37)
Well, that's why I think it shouldn't be a sign. I don't think you should sign it. I think just for that reason, you shouldn't sign it.

I think if these are the rules, these are the rules.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:37 - 2:22:41)
I don't care. How do we acknowledge that a committee and board member then knows about the rules?

[Speaker 4] (2:22:42 - 2:22:45)
You've been given the rules. You've been given the rules.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:45 - 2:22:49)
Who's going to do that and acknowledge that they did?

[Speaker 4] (2:22:49 - 2:22:53)
When you swear to be on the select board, the clerk can hand you the rules.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:53 - 2:22:55)
We have 200 current volunteers that are going to get this board and committee.

[Speaker 4] (2:22:55 - 2:22:58)
And they all were sworn in.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:58 - 2:22:59)
They're already sworn in.

[Speaker 4] (2:22:59 - 2:23:03)
Then send them an email saying you're required to follow these rules.

[Speaker 2] (2:23:05 - 2:23:10)
And so it's the lack of objection. And what if they object? I'm just trying to- Well, that's my question.

[Speaker 4] (2:23:10 - 2:23:14)
What happens if it says, I don't want to sign? I don't want to sign. Now you have a problem.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:14 - 2:23:20)
The select board has appointed. The select board should also have the ability to revoke said appointments.

[Speaker 2] (2:23:20 - 2:23:47)
Again, this is how important the committee really is. And so I'm surprised we're having this much conversation. My motion was about saying that they're in an orderly society, consistent with what we already do for boards and committees, including us.

We have to sign a book. We have to sign receipts. We have to confirm we do the ethics training.

We have to confirm that we've done the open meeting law. We're already signing all these things. So this idea now that all of a sudden we're asking them to sign something that for some reason creates discomfort when there are literally rules of decorum and process.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:47 - 2:25:39)
Actually, there are rules that help protect our employees from harassment. To me, it's like, as a town administrator, I require employees to sign a lot of things that ensure that they report themselves in a manner that would be consistent with the laws and the rules and protect the town. And for me, asking board and committee members to uphold the values and uphold the standards of conduct that would be consistent with protecting employees and protecting due process and the standards of good government is reasonable.

And it's a best practice. These policies have been developed based on a review of a number of communities that already have implemented the same type of best practices. And in terms of if an individual does not wanna sign it and they just simply don't wanna sign it because they just don't wanna sign it, that's fine.

But I would encourage the board to kind of think about that in terms of maybe a standard of fitness in terms of whether or not somebody actually is going to be a person that upholds the values that are in these documents. Because again, we're in a time and an age where it just seems as though more and more people have been given license to be inappropriate or be an agent of discord as opposed to somebody that would be constructive and help be a good member of a team and that's what we're really just looking for.

[Speaker 3] (2:25:40 - 2:25:55)
So I think Peter, your motion was that we, upon approval, that these be sent, that the town clerk send these out to all the boards and committees in that.

[Speaker 2] (2:25:57 - 2:27:19)
With the request that they sign and return them by the end of September. And I guess we'd logically really need to add in that new committee board member sign it within 30 days of being appointed. Notification of their appointment or whatever.

And again, I'm open to the site. This conversation in a vacuum makes it seem like we are again on the heels of people trying to control comments and thoughts that now we're saying we're forcing people to sign things. Is there anything in the handbooks that is objectionably unreasonable?

I mean, objectionably unreasonable. Really, like I mean, it literally says you have to follow these laws. It literally says in terms of how they deal with public comment, the language is exactly the same as their book as it is ours.

It talks about how you reach out to town council. It talks about how you do executive sessions. It talks about how you talk to the town administrator who has to approve town council.

How do you deal with minutes? I mean, I just can't imagine you find anything, but I wanna know if you do because you saying we're making people sign it, I feel as though we people not actually having this is somehow we're now saying, hey, we're trying to on the heels of controlling thought and comment now trying to put a handbook. And I don't think that's what you're intended to do.

But what do we do with this then? It just goes into the hypersphere.

[Speaker 4] (2:27:19 - 2:27:52)
I mean, I just. Let's just say, let's say a select, let's say me, it's not me, but let's just say, I don't wanna sign it. I am obligated to follow the rules that are voted on by the select board.

Whether I sign it or not, I'm obligated to follow the rules. That's why I don't think signing it, I just don't think signing it should be an issue. I don't even think what happens if you're gonna run into people like that.

I'm not signing anything. I'm not signing anything that hasn't been voted on by town meeting or I just, I don't.

[Speaker 2] (2:27:52 - 2:28:10)
But that's someone then showing the idea that they feel as though they're governed by a different set of rules. And that's just not how it works. I mean, we respectfully, we've just spent four years by someone who just created their rules that they wanted to live by and decide they don't like certain rules, they don't do it.

And so I hear you, but if.

[Speaker 4] (2:28:10 - 2:28:28)
They are obligated to follow the rules because they have been given the rules, those are the rules. We're obligated to follow the charter. Nobody made us sign the charter.

We're obligated to follow the bylaws voted by town meeting. We're not obligated to follow, we're not obligated to sign the bylaws.

[Speaker 2] (2:28:29 - 2:28:45)
If we vote that as part of this thing they are, then they are, because what it does is it eliminates the idea that A, they didn't know about it. B, they didn't subscribe to it. And that somehow that is an excuse for violating things.

[Speaker 4] (2:28:45 - 2:28:59)
You can't say I didn't know about it. I mean, like I can't say, listen, I didn't know that I couldn't go 70 miles an hour down this road and get out of a ticket. You can't use that as an excuse.

Not knowing the law isn't an excuse. Not knowing the rules isn't an excuse.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:00 - 2:29:50)
I mean, I think it's fundamental to any sort of guidelines, rules, contracts. I mean, my son signed an agreement for his little league team about like the way he would behave on his team. His coach gave it to him.

If he didn't sign it, I don't know if he would have been kicked off the team. But I think it's just the idea that it's a documented official recognition that yes, I agree. I acknowledge that these are the rules and guidelines that we're all following.

And I acknowledge that they are there and that I understand them and I will adhere to them. I mean, it's sort of basic.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:50 - 2:29:53)
I hear what you're saying, but I would need to think about it.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:56 - 2:30:00)
Okay, so I mean, there's no motion to.

[Speaker 5] (2:30:01 - 2:30:01)
We've already voted.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:01 - 2:30:07)
Yeah, so I think that the only change I would make.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:07 - 2:30:09)
Yeah, right, we already voted yes.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:09 - 2:30:27)
Yeah, so the only thought I had, Peter, to your motion in terms of the direction is I would just say, given that the next meeting is September 7th, I would maybe bump it to like October 7th. Or the end of October.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:28 - 2:30:36)
Yeah, it's not about setting a failure. It's about getting to that. It's 30 days and you cover everything.

That's fine, whatever. So the timing was just to have a date.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:36 - 2:30:37)
Right, it was just to, right.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:37 - 2:30:38)
December 31st for all.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:39 - 2:30:46)
So I would just, I would just, I would suggest.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:47 - 2:31:17)
I'm gonna keep my motion, which is gonna be to approve this committee and board handbook and the select board handbook. And to have the town administrator give instructions to the clerk to notify all board and committee members, including the select board, of the handbook and ask them to sign the acknowledgement receipt attached to each of the handbooks by October 31st. And return that to the clerk by October 31st.

[Speaker 3] (2:31:18 - 2:31:35)
Okay, is there a second? I can't sign it. No, but we've already approved it.

But we haven't approved the, we haven't had the motion for the direction for the clerk.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:35 - 2:31:53)
Yeah, I'm sorry. So maybe my emotion isn't, well, again, I was trying to undo the approval of the code of conduct just because I wanted to give Mary Ellen's point about reading that last sentence and being able to think about that last sentence as a reasonable one. So I wanna just, I thought that, again, I think you know, it's fine.

I'll allow you to second. So. No.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:54 - 2:31:57)
That's a little confusing. So I'm not gonna second anything.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:57 - 2:32:20)
Oh my God, this is just crazy, guys. Forget it. Let's just let the original vote stand.

I just, this is, this is just, it's crazy. Okay. All the handbooks are passed.

Thanks. Hey, Sean, we didn't make a motion on this, but I think it would be a great idea if you asked the clerk. I think that's a great idea.

Send it to people and have them sign it and return it. Thanks.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:20 - 2:32:28)
All right, so we don't have a consent agenda. Slide four time.

[Speaker 5] (2:32:34 - 2:32:53)
I just wanna encourage everyone to attend the Family Day at Fisherman's Beach this Saturday, and I also wanna thank our sponsors, Weber Orthodontics and The Proper Nest. And that's, that time for the Family Day at Fisherman's Beach is gonna be 3 to 7 p.m. at Fisherman's. Fisherman's Beach, see everybody there.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:57 - 2:38:05)
So I just wanna give a quick update on the committees that I'm a liaison to. The assessors are doing their assessing. They're getting ready for their recertification.

Every year, every five years, there's a full recertification, so that's what they're getting ready for. The Board of Health has been dealing with the water quality, and I'm glad to hear that now we'll be following what they're doing in Lynn, go right over there. Retirement, I missed their meeting, but I did speak to them, and they said that everything was status quo.

I have, oh, as far as the Building Committee, I'm hoping that maybe, Peter, you could say something about the Building Committee. I do would like to make a request that the Building Committee be on Zoom. And when they are on Zoom, that they hit the record button, so it's recorded, and we can go back and watch.

I went to go and watch a couple of the Building Committee meetings, however, they weren't recorded. And I've said this before, and I'm gonna say it again, that this is a $90 million project that I think people in the town should have the opportunity to follow without having to attend the meetings. I can follow Board of Health, Historic District, I can follow almost every meeting except for the Building Committee.

So I'm going to request that, again, I'll send another letter to the chair, I'll send a letter to Pam Angelakis, but I think you have a liaison, so I'm also making a request from you, Peter. I would like to see us have a conversation about possibly adding some committees. I would like to see a committee on technical, technical advisory on software or how to use technical info better.

I am so not technical, and there are tons of people that are, that could have a committee. I'd like to see a committee for human resources, a committee that can meet two to three times a year and give advice to the town administrator for best practices and to review our policies. There's a lot of really, really good HR people that live in Swampscott, some big corporations, and I think they could give some great advice.

I wanted to know, do we have a Veterans Committee, I mean, a Veterans Service Committee, because I saw that on the committee list, but I don't know if there really is a committee. If there's not, I'd like to see a Veterans Service Committee. So that's what I have there.

Today, I happened to go out on the drive-by. I don't know if drive-by is a good definition, but the school officer, Brian Wilson, put together a group of people, and the PTO has put together a group of people to do a dry run of the going back to school. So we had less than 40 cars, but what it did was it gave them an idea of what to anticipate.

So out of that, so it was a mock trial, pretty much, of the school pattern. And what they did pick up was they needed deflectors on the jersey barriers. There's an issue with the garbage trucks in those areas by blaining, so they've gotta try to deal with the- Froning radiuses.

Yeah. No, no, just they're out on the roads, and we're trying to get traffic through there. So we try to see if they can reconfigure the logistics of that.

There's a couple signs that need to get adjusted, and then they're gonna back out 10 feet of going out onto Reddington, I forget which road it is. I forget which road it is, but there's a road that goes out onto Reddington. They're gonna back off, no parking on there, just so that the radius can be a little bit more open.

The banners are up, or they're putting the banners up now for slow down for back to school. I think the biggest thing that, you know, standing there and listening to parents was the amount of frustration. And even being around town and listening to people, like people are very worked up about this.

And I think the biggest thing is this is the situation that we're in, it's not a bad situation because we've got a school that we're in. Anthony's is gonna, we leave some parking, which is great, but I think if everybody could just try to be patient and have a good attitude, I think that'll work. Having the police all over this morning, there was police, there was a DPW, there were teachers, Max Casper from facility management was out there.

I didn't see the fire department, but I'm hoping I'm gonna see them on the day that it starts. It went really well this morning. So that's all I have to say.

[Speaker 1] (2:38:05 - 2:39:10)
I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, we did get a report. I did meet with Officer Wilson after, and we talked about getting more reflectors.

I think we're gonna need to be open to making changes over the next few weeks. And that's why we've given Chief Cassata and the Swampsville Police Department the ability to make the changes that they best see fit to help ensure that we have a safe transportation program and pedestrian safety program for that school. But certainly appreciate the work of the PTOs and the parents and the teachers.

Look, it is change, and change is never easy, but we're building a wonderful brand new school that is gonna be absolutely extraordinary. So I think if we can get through this, there'll be something really wonderful to think about over the next year.

[Speaker 3] (2:39:13 - 2:39:14)
That's it.

[Speaker 2] (2:39:14 - 2:42:14)
I have two quick things. To Sean, your continued work with the Athenas family and building relationships. You have done what generations before you didn't, and I appreciate that relationship you've built and your success, because it is your success in getting the parking for the teachers.

And so I'm very grateful, and I know the superintendent's really grateful for your efforts as well. I was with her last night at a school building committee meeting when she heard news, and very pleased for her teachers to be able to relieve the stress of that and to allow everybody to focus more on the kids and education and less on that. Related to that, I wanna thank the school building committee and the superintendent and the school design team and Max Casper in particular.

If you haven't seen the Blaney School, you will probably see pictures in the next few weeks as kids go into it. I know that there is concern and change is difficult for people. It is beautiful.

The teachers have done an amazing job. Max and the facilities team did a great job making upgrades necessary, including ventilation updates, including aesthetic updates and safety and fire updates and things of that nature. And it's beautiful.

It's, you know, interestingly, probably our most beautiful school right now. So, but it really is a credit, and that's, you know, all this stuff that we do here tonight, that's, I guess we gotta do this stuff, and it may not be the fun stuff and the meaningful stuff, but the reason we do it and the reason the school committee does it is for that. It's to see projects like the school coming together.

And if you haven't noticed, you go by the Stanley site, you'll see site fencing around the entirety of the site and the building. The building has its windows removed. The abatement is continuing.

And I think in the next 30 days or so, you will see demolition begin and very quickly end for the school, because that's a very quick process. And then shortly thereafter, you'll see site work begin. So this is real.

It's really exciting. And I remember when we were moving out of a neighborhood, someone said, it's only sad until you move out of the neighborhood. Once you go and see the new house and you start thinking about the new house, it's pretty exciting.

And that's, I think, a lot to do with the school here. And I think this couple of weeks, we've seen from the teachers and parents, a lot of excitement now that they're seeing the Blaney and now that they're seeing this all come to reality. And a lot of people are working really hard, Sean and Max and the superintendent and the school business manager and the school building committee, in addition to teachers getting their rooms set for kids.

So this stuff here is all serious and sometimes not fun, but it's good to remember that stuff, because that is actually why we do it. It's why we're willing to put the time in and put up with stuff.

[Speaker 1] (2:42:15 - 2:42:54)
Peter, I'm glad you really context that. Max has done an absolutely fantastic job and he's a serious professional, but they have really worked hard to mobilize and pull that together. Again, it's worth just thinking about this too shall pass.

And before you know it, you will be cutting a ribbon on a state-of-the-art elementary school. It will be great. So as much as it may be frustrating, it will be worth it.

It will be worth it, amen.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:55 - 2:43:07)
Thanks. Thanks. Peter, John, I don't have anything for slide board time, so.

Motion to adjourn. Wait a second. All those in favor?

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, Diane.

[Speaker 10] (2:43:08 - 2:43:09)
All right, good night.

[Speaker 13] (2:43:13 - 2:43:14)
Thank you, Ethan.