[Speaker 1] (0:05 - 5:06) Here we go. Protect your family, friends, and yourself. Scams. In today's world, scams have been a very dangerous reality. Scams affect people of all ages, especially the older population. So they've changed and evolved over time. The goal is to separate you from your money or your valuables. The complexity has increased due to the nature of communications through telephone, text message, email, the US mail, the internet. The most damaging scams are the ones that attack the love that you have for the ones you care about. The scam puts a loved one in an emergency in a lot of cases, such as a medical problem, like an expensive hospital visit, or a legal problem, like an arrest, which requires either bail money or lawyer fees. Every day, these scams, they're advancing to appear to be different from older ones. The other problem with new technology is that scammers can contact millions of people with ease. Junk email, robotic phone calls, deceptive internet sites, just a few of the methods that they use, to name a few. So the best way to protect yourself is to understand that legitimate companies, they don't ask you to buy gift cards to make payments or send cash through the mail. We've seen a bunch of times at the station, we take reports where people just throw a wad of cash in a box and send it off to UPS. But they firmly, they actually believe that they're sending it to their grandchild or to a loved one. So they give bank account numbers to unknown people. They hand cash to unknown persons who come to your house and solicit. Most importantly, never give your personal information, like your social security number, your full name, date of birth, or mother's maiden name, to any strangers. If you follow the simple guidelines, it's common sense stuff, but sometimes you feel silly because it's like, I can't believe that just happened. So you'll definitely reduce your chances of being a victim. So the number one defense to spread this information to your family and friends, word of mouth, we found goes a long way. So don't hesitate to call or otherwise speak to someone you know and trust to assist you in recognizing a possible scam if you have a question on something. It's always better to be safe than sorry here. Someone calls you and they don't want you to hang up from a phone call, please hang up. Someone to try to keep you on the line to try to take money. If it's a reputable company, you can always call back. So whenever you don't feel comfortable speaking to someone on the phone, you can always hang up the phone. That's the most important thing. And a call back. If it's a reputable company, they will allow you to hang up the phone and call back if you have questions. So the best ways to stop this is obviously open dialogue for anyone that can assist you in spotting a scam. Family, friends, neighbors, the senior center staff, police, whenever you have a question, just ask and we can help you. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. So caution should always be used. So we're going to go through all the different types of scams that people tend to use. The first one is the grandparent scam. That's what I was kind of getting to earlier. The grandparent scam is so simple and so devious because it uses one of the older adult's most reliable assets, their hearts. Scammers will place a call to an older person when the mark picks up, and they will say something along the lines of, hi, grandma. Do you know who this is? When the unsuspecting grandparent guesses the name of the grandchild, the scammer most sounds like. So just throw out, like, oh, is this Betsy or is this someone? Like, oh, yeah, it is. It is. The scammer has established a fake identity right there. So without having done a lick of background research. Once they're in, the fake grandchild will usually ask for money to solve some unexpected financial problem. Overdue rent, payment for cars, et cetera, to be paid via Western Union or MoneyGram, which don't always require identification to collect. At the same time, the scam artist will beg the grandparent, please don't tell my parents. You can't tell them. They would kill me. You can't do it. Well, it's just a big scheme right there. So while the sums from such a scam are likely to be in the hundreds, the very fact that no research is needed makes this scam that can be perpetrated over and over at very little cost to the scammer. Do you guys have any questions with that? [Speaker 14] (5:07 - 5:07) All right. [Speaker 2] (5:08 - 5:24) The other thing we've seen with that one is they'll ask you to send gift cards because they're not trackable. Once you purchase that gift card, it now doesn't exist to where it came from anymore. And even further, they won't even tell you to mail it. They'll say scratch the code off and read the code to me. That way, you're not even mailing it to any place that we can trace. [Speaker 1] (5:24 - 5:28) Or they'll ask you to send a picture of the gift card. [Speaker 2] (5:28 - 5:34) We can't even track it. It's not even going to a PO box or something like that. We're out of the game at that point. And they know what we can find and can't find. [Speaker 1] (5:36 - 12:02) So they'll put on that fake, like, grandma, grandpa, you've got to help me. But you can't tell my parents. It happens more than you would think. I took a report. Person sent a lot of money in a box and just sent it off to UPS. And poof, it was gone. So that's the grandparent scam. So the next one is health care, Medicare, health insurance fraud. So every US citizen or permanent resident over the age of 65 qualifies for Medicare. So there's rarely any need for a scam artist to research what private health insurance companies older people have in order to scam them out of some money. In these types of scams, perpetrators may pose as a Medicare representative to get older people to give them their personal information. Or they'll provide bogus services for elderly people at makeshift mobile clinics and then use personal information they provide to bill Medicare and pocket the money. So the next one is counterfeit prescription drugs. Most commonly, counterfeit drug scams operate on the internet, where seniors increasingly go to find better prices on specialized medications. The scam is growing in popularity. Since 2000, the FDA has investigated an average of 20 cases a year, up from five a year ago in the 90s. So it's just rising. The danger is that besides paying money for something that will not help a person's medical condition, victims may purchase unsafe substances that can inflict even more harm. This scam can be as hard on the body as it is on your bank account and wallet. Let's see, the next one here is funeral and cemetery scams. The FBI warns about two types of funeral and cemetery fraud perpetrated on seniors. In one approach, scammers read obituaries and they call or attend a funeral service of the complete stranger to take advantage of a grieving widow or widower, claiming the deceased had an outstanding debt with them. Scammers will try to extort money from relatives to settle fake debts. Another tactic of disreputable funeral homes is to capitalize on family members' unfamiliarity with the considerable costs of funeral services to add unnecessary charges on top of the bill. In one common scam of this type, funeral directors will insist that a casket, usually one of the most expensive parts of funeral services, is necessary even when performing a direct cremation, which can be accomplished with a cardboard casket rather than an expensive display or a burial casket. The next one is fraudulent anti-aging products. In a society bombarded with images of the young and the beautiful, it's not surprising that some older people feel the need to conceal their age in order to participate more fully in social circles and in the workplace. After all, they say 60 is a new 40, right? No. It's in this spirit that many older Americans seek out new treatments and medications to maintain a youthful appearance, putting them at risk of scammers. Whether it's fake Botox, like one in Arizona that netted its distributors who were convicted and jailed in 2006, they got $1.5 million in barely a year. Or completely bogus homeopathic remedies that do absolutely nothing. There's money in the anti-aging business. Botox scams are particularly unsettling, as renegade labs creating versions of the real thing may still be working with the root ingredient, botulism neurotoxin, which is one of the most toxic substances known to science. A bad bat can have health consequences far beyond wrinkles or drooping neck muscles. So the next one is telemarketing. When most, this is perhaps the most common scheme when scammers use fake telemarketing calls to prey on older people, who as a group make twice as many purchases over the phone than the national average. While the image of a lonely senior citizen with nobody to talk to may have something to do with this, it's far more likely that older people are more familiar with shopping over the phone and therefore might not be fully aware of the risk. With no face-to-face interaction, no paper trail, these scams are incredibly hard to trace. Also, once a successful deal has been made, the buyer's name is then shared with similar schemers who are looking for easy targets. So they share everybody's information so they can get some for themselves, sometimes defrauding the same person repeatedly. And then the next one is called the pigeon drop. The con artist tells the individual that he, she has found a large sum of money and is willing to split it if the person will make a good faith payment by withdrawing funds from his or her bank account. Often, a second con artist is involved, posing as a lawyer, a banker, or some other trustworthy stranger. The next one is a fake accident ploy. So the con artist gets the victim to wire, send money, on the pretext that the person's child or another relative is in the hospital and needs the money. And they'll kind of go back to that grandparent scam scheme where they'll just put on an act and figure out a way how to find that person's parent, grandchild, or that name that they need. Next one is charity scams. Money is solicited for fake charities. This often occurs after natural disasters or, for instance, the One Fund after the Boston Marathon. Internet fraud. While using the internet is a great skill at any age, the slower speed of adoption among some older people makes them easier targets for automated internet scams that are ubiquitous on the web and email programs. Pop-up browser windows simulating virus scanning software will fool victims into either downloading a fake anti-virus program at a substantial cost or an actual virus that'll open up whatever information is on the user's computer for scammers. So you'll get like the pop-ups that'll say, oh, we need to clean your computer. We need to get rid of the, there's a virus detected. And when really that's the virus itself that you click on. [Speaker 2] (12:03 - 12:23) That one, we also saw one a couple years ago that said it was their bank. Like, this is Bank of America. Click here, we have information on your account that seems fraudulent. They can just create these things, which if you have Bank of America, you're gonna think, yep, something must be wrong with my account. That could happen to anybody at any age. We saw that one for a little while too, which is scary. [Speaker 1] (12:24 - 16:24) All right, yeah, so their unfamiliarity with the less visible aspects of browsing the web. Firewalls and built-in virus protections, for example, they make seniors especially susceptible to such traps. Email phishing. Senior receives an email that appears to be from a legitimate company or institution asking them to update or verify their personal information. Just tricks them. A senior receives emails that appear to be from the IRS about a tax refund. So they'll pose as one of those. And so it gets, and people feel silly too because it seems legitimate, but everything looks official, but it's not. So you better double check. So investment schemes. Many seniors find themselves planning for retirement and managing their savings once they finish working. A number of investment schemes have been targeted at seniors looking to safeguard their cash for later years. From pyramid schemes like Bertie Madoff's, which counted a number of senior citizens among its victims, to fables of a Nigerian prince looking for a partner to claim inheritance money to complex financial products that many economists don't even understand. Just confuse you. Investment schemes have long been successful way to take advantage of older people. Next one would be homeowner reverse mortgage scams. Scammers like to take advantage of the fact that many people above a certain age own their homes, a valuable asset that increases the potential dollar of a certain scam. A particularly elaborate property tax scam in San Diego saw fraudsters sending personalized letters to different properties, apparently on behalf of the county's assessor office, assessor's office of the town or city. The letter made it look official, but displaying only public information would identify... Sorry. The letter made it look official, but displaying only public information would identify the property's assessed value and offer the homeowner for a fee, of course, to arrange for reassessment of the property's value and therefore the tax burden associated with it. Closely related, the reverse mortgage scam has mushroomed in recent years. With legitimate reverse mortgages increasing in frequency more than 1,300% between 1999 and 2008, scammers are taking advantage of this new popularity. As opposed to official refinancing schemes, however, unsecured reverse mortgages can lead property owners to lose their homes when the perpetrators offer money for a fee, offer money or a free house somewhere else in exchange for the title to the property. Next one would be sweepstakes and lottery scams. This simple scam is one that many are familiar with and it capitalizes on the notion that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Here, scammers inform their mark that they have won a lottery or sweepstakes of some kind and need to make some sort of payment to unlock the supposed prize. Often, seniors will be sent a check that they can deposit in their own bank account, knowing that while it shows up in their account immediately, it'll take a few days before the fake check is rejected. During that time, the criminals will quickly collect money for supposed fees or taxes on that prize, which they pocket while the victim has the prize money removed from his or her account as soon as the check bounces. So, those are, it's a wide array of things, but it just, the most important thing is that they try to make it seem as real as possible and they just try to trick you. And a lot of people, very smart people, and with a lot of common sense and reasonableness, they feel like they've been tricked and they just feel silly. But it happens more than you would think. Do you guys have any questions with anything? Hi. [Speaker 14] (16:24 - 16:26) I had a couple here and there. [Speaker 4] (16:34 - 17:03) I was one digit off in the number and there was a scam place that was trying to pretend they were T-Mobile and getting all the information, and since I had done the calling, I didn't suspect it, but right afterwards, I was suspicious, so I called the credit card company, changed my credit card number. Perfect, yeah. Immediately, but since I did the initiating, I didn't quite connect the way I should have. [Speaker 1] (17:04 - 17:29) So they were trying to confirm your information based off, they were saying like, okay, yeah. So that's, they'll try any trick just to get you to give them your information. Hi. Yeah. We haven't taken anything. [Speaker 5] (17:29 - 17:31) We really don't need the money. [Speaker 1] (17:31 - 17:34) Right, well, people will fake. It doesn't exist. [Speaker 2] (17:34 - 18:04) Yeah. We haven't taken any reports on it, but for sure, people create GoFundMes because they're very loosely monitored, very loosely tracked, all that stuff. And another one that wasn't really on there, which we saw recently, was somebody called around residents of the town using our names, police officers that you know, saying we're from the small-town police department, this is Officer so-and-so, where you guys all know a lot of us, you recognize a name that you've heard, so you don't question it. We saw that one within the last couple months that came around. [Speaker 1] (18:04 - 18:39) This happened like 10 years ago when I first started. I was working in Salem before I came here, but Officer John Lloyd from the FBI was looking to get money. And I just remember seeing it in the newspaper because the local newspaper would put it in there. And I didn't even know that it was a thing in an actual police report until I saw it in the newspaper. But it happens more than you would think, for sure. So are they trying, what's that? [Speaker 2] (18:40 - 19:24) Oh, the pop-up thing? So yeah, I know I took a report a couple years ago on that. I can use this if that helps you. So somebody was just on their computer doing normal business, whatever they were reading, even the newspaper, whatever they were doing, a pop-up came on the screen saying, this is Bank of America, this is Eastern Bank, that we've seen some fraudulent activity in your account, click here to continue. And then it took you to a scam page which looked just like the Bank of America page, but it wasn't. So they were phishing into computers, sending out that little screen alert, trying to see who would click on it. So if you see it, and you normally use Bank of America, the page looks like you always see, and then they start phishing for your information. Confirm your account number, type it in. Confirm your name, type it in. [Speaker 13] (19:24 - 19:27) Do you ever catch these guys? [Speaker 2] (19:28 - 19:28) Occasionally. [Speaker 1] (19:28 - 19:29) It's really hard. [Speaker 2] (19:29 - 20:02) It's really hard because what they do is they use computer-generated, so it's an IP address that it comes from, they'll kind of lock those, so tracking back to where it originates is hard. They'll use PO boxes, they'll use a lot of couriers, like we've seen courier services, so they'll call an Uber to go pick up this box for them, and then deliver it to another address. So all we know is the Uber gentleman went to your house, brought it here, once it gets in those hands, we don't know where it goes. So it's very hard to keep a track on this stuff. And they know what we can see and what we can't see. They're very good at being bad, unfortunately. [Speaker 1] (20:03 - 20:51) I took a report of someone, they put $20,000 in a box, and they sent it through UPS, and it went to a PO box, and you can't trace it. It just kind of is, it's very scary. And the person had all her wits about her, and she felt silly, but it was the grandparent scheme. It was like, you gotta help bail me out, I need my lawyer fees, it was something crazy, like, please don't tell mommy, or like, it happens. It definitely happens, for sure. And I think what you were saying about any pop-ups for like Bank of America or anything, never click on anything. If you have any question, just call the bank directly. It's a lot easier that way. [Speaker 2] (20:51 - 20:53) Any legit corporation will not use a pop-up. [Speaker 1] (20:53 - 20:54) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (20:54 - 20:56) Ever. Right? Do you agree? [Speaker 13] (20:56 - 20:59) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [Speaker 7] (21:01 - 21:06) Is it safe to click on the email to go to the website? [Speaker 1] (21:07 - 21:18) If you're familiar with it being, I think if you have any question whatsoever, I think the most important thing is don't click on it, and just call directly. [Speaker 2] (21:18 - 21:34) Yeah, I would always say, if you see an email from your bank, you can always call, go to your bank, ask them if it's legitimate. I would always err on the side of, most banks don't use emails. Unless you deposit something, they'll send you a notice of, like, deposit. They don't really reach out to you for account information with that. [Speaker 7] (21:35 - 21:54) Like, the stores, if you're doing online shopping, stores like Shaw's will send you an email, and you can click on that to get to their website. Is that safe to do, or should you go directly to the? [Speaker 1] (21:54 - 22:14) See, and that's what's tricky about it. If you've used this site, and you're familiar with the steps that it goes, I would say it's okay, but if it's something completely different that you've never dealt with, and if it's a new business that you're working with, I would just double-check first before anything. Yeah, because it... [Speaker 2] (22:14 - 22:18) Does Shaw's use, like, a login, like you create an account when you first start using that? [Speaker 13] (22:19 - 22:19) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (22:19 - 22:26) So if I went on right now, I'd have to create it, login, password, all that stuff? Okay, so I would say if you have that, they usually won't have your login information. [Speaker 13] (22:26 - 22:26) Right. [Speaker 2] (22:27 - 22:41) They'll just do a mirror image of what the screen would look like, and then say your password isn't working, and then they try to get you into another direction, is what they would probably do. So I think you're safe, as long as it's something you've used, you've created. Yeah. You always use it. But I think you're good there. [Speaker 1] (22:43 - 23:12) Another thing that actually just came to mind I took a report on was, a person had remotely accessed their computer. So, but this person gave access to this person to remotely access their computer because they were trying to assist them with something like a virus, or, oh, if you have a virus, let me help you. I can do this for you. And it just opens up your whole computer with all your information, everything. So they can do that as well. [Speaker 2] (23:13 - 23:14) And these hackers are very good at what they do. [Speaker 7] (23:15 - 23:17) Best Buy will do that. [Speaker 1] (23:18 - 23:20) Remote access, yeah, right. [Speaker 7] (23:20 - 23:22) To help you. The Geek Squad stuff. Yeah, the Geek Squad, yeah. [Speaker 1] (23:23 - 23:28) Yep, I've had someone, but if you feel comfortable with who you're dealing with, and you know that it's... [Speaker 2] (23:28 - 23:46) It's also, if you had reached out to Best Buy first, so you knew you had a problem, you called Best Buy, they set up an appointment for you, the appointment comes at the time you're expecting it to be on your computer. Then it at least follows the way you think it should, but out of nowhere, hey, you're having a problem with your computer? We can help. Then I would be concerned about it. [Speaker 1] (23:50 - 24:00) She wants some love over there. You guys have any more questions? [Speaker 11] (24:02 - 24:21) I'm getting some calls from people asking or offering supply issues like, oh, you've won a trip to pick a place. And is that legitimate, or is that a scam? [Speaker 1] (24:22 - 24:53) I would 99% say it's probably, there's a catch to it. Not necessarily a scam, but they might want to get your information just to start throwing all kinds of solicitation mail, just junk mail at you, just to try to see if you'd catch on, or I feel like they wouldn't just out of the blue say, hey, you want a trip somewhere? But they try to make it sound too good to be true almost. [Speaker 2] (24:54 - 25:04) Rule of thumb, if it sounds too good to be true, it is. And like you said, it might not even be trying to solicit money, but now they sell your name to a solicitation guy, and all of a sudden, your email, your mail, your phone. [Speaker 1] (25:04 - 25:05) Gets flooded. [Speaker 2] (25:07 - 25:14) And that's easier to fall into something, because you might just get annoyed and then finally say something one day you're not realizing it, and then something happens. [Speaker 1] (25:15 - 25:25) And then it just depends on a whole slew of people that get your information based off that one single incident. And then from there, they can just take your info and go from there. [Speaker 4] (25:27 - 25:50) On your phone, if you're playing a game, there are lots of ads. Periodically, fairly often, you get an ad for download this game, and you'll get, play it, and you'll get a free card from like Amazon, Walmart, Target, whatever. I can't believe that anything is free like that. Are they trying to put scam software on your phone? [Speaker 1] (25:50 - 26:18) Yeah, usually when you agree to download an app or a game, you agree to all, like, it's all the, it's the huge reading that you would never typically read, and then you hit accept. And basically, you're basically agreeing to sell your information, that you're just giving this company your information that they're gonna sell to other people, and they're just gonna bombard you. So, I don't, yeah. [Speaker 2] (26:18 - 26:36) As much as computers do, phones are pretty protected against actually getting a virus on your phone, but that ad can definitely spin off into different directions where you'll start getting ads all the time if you want to play that game. They can use that app software, but your phone itself will be okay, but that game may never work again. You'll just start getting ads all the time. [Speaker 1] (26:36 - 27:04) And it's always good to kind of rotate your passwords, because I know my Apple iPhone, it will give you an update alert saying, your password for these things have been compromised. But if you rotate your passwords as you kind of continue on, just keeps it fresh, and it never remains stagnant to where someone can just randomly find whatever website or whatever program that you're a part of. [Speaker 2] (27:04 - 27:20) Even if you use Amazon regularly to order stuff, once a month or every two months, just change your password, keep it fresh, so that way it doesn't just always there. We have to do that with the police station computers. Every 30 days, we have to restart our passwords. Yeah, but you're young and you remember what you did. That's what you do. [Speaker 13] (27:20 - 27:20) Yeah. [Speaker 2] (27:21 - 27:36) I've been on that computer many days. Everyone is formatted a little bit differently. Some of our passwords have to be a certain amount of letters, numbers, and characters now. It gets confusing if you don't keep track. Notepads are still good. I don't even use computers to do that stuff. I write it down. [Speaker 1] (27:36 - 27:51) And if these people have any sort of information on you, especially with passwords, they can take guesses too. Like, it's your child, it's your dog, it's your address, or it's like your street name, or just changing things and making it like a- [Speaker 2] (27:51 - 27:56) The internet is so powerful now that people can find out a lot about your demographics, your family, I mean- [Speaker 1] (27:56 - 28:03) Well, they have programs where they can just run it through and just all the different combinations of- Anybody that you know, it's pretty amazing [Speaker 9] (28:03 - 28:08) how much information is out there. Oh, it's just scary what you find out. Yeah. You don't want to find out. You don't even need an address book. [Speaker 2] (28:08 - 28:08) Nope. [Speaker 9] (28:09 - 28:10) Don't need that information. [Speaker 2] (28:10 - 28:15) And that's what these people are very good at doing. They'll just blanket areas and find names and information and use it. [Speaker 13] (28:16 - 28:21) Mm-hmm. They're very deceiving. Oh, yeah. [Speaker 5] (28:21 - 28:46) Because I got a call from my bank, and they just wanted to verify a purchase that I'd made. And it was like a computer and all the other accoutrements that go with it. And it was well over $1,000. And I was like, no, I didn't purchase that. So, you're thinking, okay, this is a bank, just calling, just verifying, what a nice service. [Speaker 13] (28:46 - 28:47) Right, yeah. [Speaker 5] (28:47 - 29:07) You're offering. And so, but then they wanted information to delete all these purchases. And I'm going, you know what? I'm right around the corner from my bank. And I think I'll just go and do it in person. I can save you time if you give us, do this now, it's immediate. [Speaker 1] (29:08 - 29:18) That's when it's okay to hang up the phone, right there. You don't need to even waste your time. You don't need to be courteous. I mean, just say, excuse me, or anything. Or you can just mess with them back. [Speaker 14] (29:19 - 29:21) But that person is. [Speaker 2] (29:21 - 29:40) Right. It's also good for your bank accounts to have spend limits. So, have it flagged at 300, whatever you normally would never spend over, that they'll alert if something's trying to get purchased over that amount. Like, I even do that. I don't allow my debit card to go up to $500 in a day. It just gives you some extra safety. The banks will all do that. You can set your limits on that stuff. [Speaker 1] (29:40 - 30:10) So, you can actually set it up on your phone where your credit card or debit card, every single purchase that goes, right instantaneously, it gets an alert straight to your phone. So, it could say, you went to the store and you bought a drink. But it'll say 207 charged on your Capital One card or something. So, every single purchase can go straight. So, if you're getting something randomly, and you're like, hey, something's up right now, and then that's when you contact your credit card company or your bank. [Speaker 2] (30:10 - 30:16) They may have gotten better with this, too. Like, the actual legit companies know this is there, and they put better safety stuff in place, but it's still definitely not perfect. [Speaker 1] (30:17 - 30:19) They find ways, for sure. [Speaker 12] (30:21 - 30:34) Makes me not want to audit things online. Yeah. And the very few times I did, one time someone charged $200 worth of water from a pool cup, and it was January here. I got rid of it, ta-da. [Speaker 13] (30:34 - 30:34) Right. [Speaker 12] (30:35 - 30:36) Yeah, well, then that's the problem. [Speaker 2] (30:36 - 30:40) Then you gotta fight it to get rid of it. It's just a lot of work for you that you don't need. It's a hassle. [Speaker 9] (30:40 - 30:44) So, it's water in January from my pool? [Speaker 1] (30:45 - 30:50) Yeah, that. Yeah. Well, it's the random websites where you gotta kind of watch out for it. [Speaker 9] (30:50 - 30:54) Like, if- I don't understand those three little numbers on the back, though. How do you do that? I don't understand that. [Speaker 1] (30:54 - 30:55) Yeah. [Speaker 9] (30:55 - 31:01) It has to be someone who worked for the company that I dealt with. Definitely could be. Which I called them out on, but of course they didn't. [Speaker 2] (31:01 - 31:02) They'll never admit they were wrong. [Speaker 9] (31:02 - 31:02) No. [Speaker 2] (31:03 - 31:12) That's definitely a fact of life, that credit companies and stuff, I mean, they're insured for all this stuff, but they'll still give you a hassle, even though you had nothing to do with it. [Speaker 1] (31:13 - 31:28) I mean, Amazon, it's a one-stop shop. If you feel comfortable with something like that, where they have your card on file, that's, it's legitimate. But if you go to the random websites that you're just unsure of- That's a TV commercial. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (31:28 - 31:29) You could go on and say, well, I wanna try to order that. [Speaker 1] (31:30 - 31:30) Right. [Speaker 2] (31:30 - 31:32) I would definitely stay away from all that stuff. [Speaker 1] (31:32 - 31:34) You never know. Right. [Speaker 6] (31:34 - 32:05) This is kind of an overview of the topic a little bit, but I was wondering about, you know, with the state of affairs with people being, companies having a difficult time hiring, and I think the qualifications have gotten low, the entry-level positions. Are you finding a link in your work with employees being a part of these scams? [Speaker 2] (32:08 - 32:37) Right. A new employee that's not quite qualified for the job, but they're just looking for a body. We haven't really- Yeah, I have- Seen that, not that it's not happening. The problem with these big companies, too, is they won't tell us. If they find that out, we won't find that out. They wanna internalize that, because they don't want Amazon to get a bad name. So they'll, even if they find that out, we probably would never even know. Sadly. Everything's reputation with these big companies. Would you say a lot of the scammers are locally, or? No. [Speaker 1] (32:38 - 32:42) Different countries. Yeah, different countries, different- But they could be from anywhere. [Speaker 2] (32:42 - 32:51) Yeah. And they're networks. Like I said, they use runners, they use many different- There's a plan, yeah. They know what they're doing before they do it. [Speaker 1] (32:52 - 32:55) Create layers between them, and- Exactly. [Speaker 2] (32:55 - 33:07) The actual person that calls you will probably never even be involved with any of the touching of anything. They're just one job, and then somebody else has another job, and then along the pipeline. Depends on- They were using Uber, we saw. They were calling a poor Uber driver who knew nothing. [Speaker 1] (33:07 - 33:09) Well, just- And he was sent to this address. [Speaker 13] (33:09 - 33:09) Right. [Speaker 1] (33:09 - 33:36) But it also depends on how smart these people are, too. There could be some people not so smart that they'll get caught, but it's just a wide spectrum of everything. So, yeah. Questions? Yeah. What's the penalty for doing that? I mean, that's for the courts to kind of ultimately decide- Depending on what you do? Yeah, depending on what we charge them with. Charge is different. [Speaker 2] (33:36 - 33:38) Over amount of money, below amount. Right. [Speaker 1] (33:38 - 33:44) It all drinks up depending on how- Yeah, it varies, and it could just depend on what charge we have. [Speaker 2] (33:45 - 33:46) So, then the FDIC needs to know. [Speaker 8] (33:46 - 34:05) I have one fellow that calls me maybe every six months. Oh, hi, I didn't think you'd be home today. How are you? Gee, I'm calling today for the fire department. Next time, they'll be calling for the dentist. Next time, they'll call for the police department. And I said, will you get a light, will you please do something else? [Speaker 1] (34:05 - 34:06) If it's your cell phone, you can block that number. [Speaker 8] (34:07 - 34:10) Well, I have been blocked a couple of times, but I still get it. [Speaker 2] (34:10 - 34:15) So, they can computer generate phone numbers now, too. Like, they don't even have to have a phone. [Speaker 1] (34:15 - 34:16) Oh, okay, your landline. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (34:16 - 34:34) So, like, people will get sometimes frustrated and say, why don't we just call them back and catch them? They're computer generated phone numbers sometimes that just scrambles random cell phone numbers. So, it could be his legitimate cell phone number that this person somehow pulled and they're calling from that number even though it's not coming from his phone. It's all very tech-savvy stuff. [Speaker 12] (34:34 - 34:35) Mm-hmm. [Speaker 1] (34:36 - 34:43) That's anybody who don't know. I just never pick up the phone if it's an unknown number. Yeah, if it's private or unknown. [Speaker 2] (34:44 - 34:47) Cell phones now will say spam risk on all their phone numbers, which is good. [Speaker 1] (34:48 - 34:51) That's been a great thing. And if they really need you, they'll leave a message and you just call them back. [Speaker 13] (34:52 - 34:54) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. [Speaker 3] (34:57 - 35:29) Well, I'm just curious, Josh, I'm with Susan, and I'm getting late, so I apologize for the team up. Zach and him, too. And as this came up in our fellow senior group, there is one man who we were, there's a police association. Benevolent Association. Exactly, but, oh. I like that, very important. And I just, honestly, I don't wanna not support the police. You know I love you guys. It just doesn't sound right to me, and he doesn't sound right to me. [Speaker 2] (35:29 - 35:35) Any legitimate public safety, fire, police, EMS, anything will not make phone calls to solicit money. [Speaker 3] (35:36 - 35:36) Okay, that's. [Speaker 2] (35:37 - 35:45) Yes, the fireman, we send out a letter once a year. We kind of post when it happens. It happens at the same time every year. Fire department does the same thing. It'll never come over a phone call. [Speaker 3] (35:45 - 35:51) Okay, so, because I think at one point, because he gets testy when you don't comply. [Speaker 2] (35:51 - 35:54) And that, yeah. So there it is, yeah. Well, you don't wanna support the local police department. [Speaker 3] (35:54 - 36:08) Right, and so I asked him to, I asked him to send something in writing, and when I looked, the address was not, it wasn't, it didn't correspond to what I thought I was gonna be giving money to, so I thought, it almost seemed like a pact or something, like a pact, or. Yeah. [Speaker 2] (36:08 - 36:17) We have this thing called Police Relief Association, it's called, and like I said, it goes out on a written type letter, header on it from us, saying it definitely comes from us. We'll never make a phone call. [Speaker 1] (36:17 - 36:27) If someone gets testy, or pushy, or aggressive, they're begging at that point. They're begging for you to give them money, and it's not legitimate. It just doesn't seem any. [Speaker 2] (36:27 - 36:33) No legitimate group's gonna get the testy when they get a phone call. Like, they'll say, thank you very much for your time, have a good day. It's never gonna get to a point of aggression. [Speaker 1] (36:34 - 36:38) Right, especially in like, police, fire, yeah. [Speaker 3] (36:39 - 36:49) I know that recently, the census was making kind of like home visits, which was news to me. We got some calls here at the senior center about, is this legit, and what are you supposed to do? [Speaker 2] (36:49 - 37:06) So at the time, as far as people are going to order, they have to register and check in with us. So we'll have a list of names, they have to show us identifications. So if somebody shows up at your house, you can call the police station and say, this gentleman's here, he's saying he's for this person, is this legit? Yeah, that's a lot of things. So if there's different levels. [Speaker 1] (37:06 - 37:08) Is there a roofing company? Like an Irish roofing company? [Speaker 2] (37:08 - 37:11) Yeah, there's paving driveways, don't ever go for that stuff. [Speaker 1] (37:11 - 37:12) Right, that's what it's a paving. [Speaker 2] (37:13 - 37:21) It's like gypsy pavers that they wear, they just rotate everywhere. They take up your driveway and do like, the worst asphalt they can plug back in, and six months later, your driveway's collapsed. [Speaker 1] (37:21 - 37:29) Well, they'll take the initial installment on something, and then they'll be like, all right, we'll be back on this day, and they just won't show up, and they'll take your first payment of three, or. [Speaker 2] (37:29 - 37:36) If somebody shows up at your door, you can always call the police station if you think it's not legitimate, they have to check in with us. That's recently, that's been years. [Speaker 13] (37:37 - 37:37) Right. [Speaker 1] (37:39 - 37:42) And odds are they're not registered with us, because we've seen it. [Speaker 2] (37:42 - 37:53) Like in magazines, as we saw, and then we didn't know who those people were, and they were coming from down south. And a couple of them, when we started checking into them, weren't good people. So that's when this all really began, we knew, realized we had a problem. [Speaker 1] (37:53 - 37:55) You could also think in this sense. [Speaker 2] (37:55 - 37:58) They haven't been around since we made them register, they've kind of faded away. [Speaker 1] (37:58 - 38:06) So these people who can go door to door with this, like they could also be casing houses, and they could be checking out the area just by casually. [Speaker 2] (38:06 - 38:10) They come to your house twice in a week at two o'clock in the afternoon and realize, wow, nobody's home. [Speaker 13] (38:10 - 38:10) Right. [Speaker 2] (38:11 - 38:12) That's definitely what they think, too. [Speaker 10] (38:13 - 38:21) Online, on Facebook, when they ask questions about your mom, and when you graduate from high school and all that, don't answer this. [Speaker 1] (38:21 - 38:21) Right. [Speaker 10] (38:22 - 38:23) Don't give out any personal information. [Speaker 1] (38:23 - 38:25) Any, yep, no personal. [Speaker 10] (38:26 - 38:31) Because you're building a profile up. Yep. Once they get it, the information, then they can use it. [Speaker 2] (38:31 - 38:43) And some of these people can use different profiles, like they'll ask you a question that's for this, but it's the same person doing it for this. If you answer two questions on this, two questions on this, now all of a sudden, they have a full spreadsheet. [Speaker 12] (38:43 - 38:44) And then they've scammed you. [Speaker 2] (38:44 - 38:44) Yep. [Speaker 12] (38:45 - 38:47) Yeah, it's. Of whatever it is you're using your name. [Speaker 1] (38:47 - 38:48) Mm-hmm. [Speaker 12] (38:48 - 38:49) Something else. [Speaker 1] (38:50 - 38:51) We'll try. [Speaker 3] (39:18 - 39:26) That's social media, but also, you know, something that they can definitely help you with. Make sure your settings are active. [Speaker 2] (39:26 - 39:28) We do this with the kids at the school, too. [Speaker 3] (39:28 - 39:29) Yes, yeah, exactly. [Speaker 2] (39:29 - 39:36) We see it not just with scams, like online bullying is a very big thing now. It's all age levels that the internet's at. [Speaker 10] (39:36 - 39:43) Oh my God, I got it this morning. He wants to meet me. Oh. I don't know how to tell my husband. Yeah, right. Yeah. [Speaker 1] (39:47 - 39:56) Well, if you guys have any questions, just ask staff here, and then if they can't kind of come to a conclusion with it, they can just contact us. We have no problem coming in. Yeah.