[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 0:29)
Good to see everybody. It's really nice to kind of get in person here. We'll see how this goes, and my guess is it's just going to be us in the room.

It seems to be the case. I'm expecting a rush of people at the door, but it's still nice to kind of have a meeting where we can see each other's faces and get some good stuff taken care of tonight. Are there any participants on there other than the PEG producer?

As far as public comment, I don't see any, right? I would see them here, I assume.

[Speaker 1] (0:29 - 0:32)
You would see someone raise their hand when you call for public comment.

[Speaker 2] (0:32 - 1:51)
Okay. I'll call for public comment. I don't see anybody who might raise.

Okay. So I think our general goal tonight is to turn our attention back to the budget book. Hopefully, if we're lucky, we can go through and finish the remaining line items that we haven't kind of concluded on.

I know we're not totally done, but at least it will be our first pass. I think we have some things we want to follow up. We didn't mark everything green.

Then I was hoping that we could then talk about the debt service schedule that Patrick just gave us today and kind of walk through what's in the budget and then turn our attention to the details behind debt service. But before we dive in, I was wondering if we can maybe talk a little bit about just remaining schedule. Amy, I'm kind of turning to you for a little help with this.

Just with the number of days left between now and whatever the date is, we have to have the, I guess, the letter written? Yep. You probably have the scheduler in, right?

It's not totally clear to me when we have to have the letter done, if it's truly right before the printing and mailing or if it's before things get sent over to, like on the 17th, where it says finance committee finishes report.

[Speaker 1] (1:52 - 2:11)
Ideally, you would finish your report by the 17th, and that's the assumption that the select board closes the warrant on the 19th. You do have, because you don't have to vote the letter, you have up until the select board closes the warrant for it to get in there.

[Speaker 2] (2:11 - 2:12)
That's not what I thought. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:14 - 2:18)
But, yeah, the 19th is still the target for the select board to close.

[Speaker 2] (2:18 - 2:21)
So preferable by the 19th or the 17th?

[Speaker 1] (2:21 - 2:40)
Preferably by the 17th, just so that there isn't a team of us at town hall until midnight trying to put it together. Because we have to, the printer has to have it in the morning when they walk in on the 20th for us to meet the deadline to mail them on time.

[Speaker 2] (2:40 - 2:40)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (2:41 - 2:43)
The 17th is a blessed marathon.

[Speaker 2] (2:44 - 3:00)
Okay. I'm not running, so I'm not worried about that. Okay.

So we'll shoot for the 17th is what I'm hearing. That's preferable. But it's not really a deadline for it to be printed in the morning, right?

We do have more time if it dragged a little bit.

[Speaker 1] (3:00 - 3:04)
You have up until they close it on the 19th to get it printed in.

[Speaker 2] (3:04 - 3:09)
Okay. All right. Thank you.

All right.

[Speaker 9] (3:09 - 3:16)
So I think it's a Boston holiday.

[Speaker 1] (3:18 - 3:19)
The 19th is?

[Speaker 10] (3:19 - 3:20)
No, the 17th.

[Speaker 1] (3:20 - 3:23)
Oh, that doesn't matter. That was just a date.

[Speaker 3] (3:25 - 3:28)
You're open. You are open. Town hall is open.

[Speaker 1] (3:29 - 3:33)
Town hall is not. I'm always open during budget season.

[Speaker 2] (3:34 - 3:57)
All right. Naomi, can we confirm? Naomi said she's waiting in the lobby there.

Hi, Naomi. Can you just let us know that you can hear us and maybe say something so we're sure that you can speak when you want to?

[Speaker 12] (3:59 - 4:00)
Yes, I'm here.

[Speaker 7] (4:00 - 4:03)
I'm in transit, but I can hear you. Thanks.

[Speaker 2] (4:03 - 4:17)
All right. Great. Okay.

So I think we left off at DPW last time we met. Maybe, Amy, if you could, whoever's presenting, we can share the spreadsheet and pick up there.

[Speaker 1] (4:18 - 4:25)
I do have notes from the DPW director on the shade trees that were in question last time.

[Speaker 2] (4:27 - 4:28)
What was the question last time?

[Speaker 1] (4:28 - 4:29)
The shade trees.

[Speaker 2] (4:29 - 4:30)
Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (4:31 - 5:02)
So he said for FY22 capital, he had gotten the $40,000 for shade trees where they had a contractor come in to plant some. But the $10,000 a year is based off their purchasing of trees and having our DPW employees be the ones to plant them. So they do 25 in the spring and 25 in the fall.

They've been able to hit that target every year. But he said with the manpower they have, can't do more than the 50 trees annually.

[Speaker 2] (5:02 - 5:05)
So $10,000 equates to 50 trees? Is that what you're saying?

[Speaker 1] (5:05 - 5:05)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (5:05 - 5:06)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (5:06 - 5:28)
But he did say for FY25, he will be doing another capital request for another potential 40, and that if FinCom or any other advisory or governing board wanted to increase that capital plan, they could go out to bid to have a contractor install, plant more trees.

[Speaker 2] (5:29 - 5:32)
So for this year, this is the best he can do?

[Speaker 1] (5:32 - 5:35)
Yeah, he said for operating, he can't accommodate more than 10,000.

[Speaker 2] (5:35 - 5:37)
If we want to do more, put it in the capital plan next year?

[Speaker 1] (5:37 - 5:50)
Yes. Because he said that 40,000 capital was over three years, and the next one will also be for over three years.

[Speaker 2] (5:53 - 5:53)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (5:58 - 6:00)
Otherwise, he welcomes any money he would like to add to his budget.

[Speaker 2] (6:02 - 6:06)
I think we've kind of gone through the rest of DPW there, right? That was just one open question.

[Speaker 1] (6:06 - 6:08)
That was the only outstanding item, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (6:08 - 6:13)
Okay. How about the always interesting snow and ice budget?

[Speaker 1] (6:14 - 6:46)
So with the changes in the governor's budget, we had put the snow and ice budget back up to what it is this year, which, as you'll remember from last year, if we do not fund it at the same level as the previous year, you cannot legally deficit that if there's a really bad weather and extensive weather events. So for that reason, we did put this back up to the $60,000 and $180,000.

[Speaker 2] (6:47 - 6:51)
It's based on the previous year budget, obviously not actual, because we don't know actual?

[Speaker 1] (6:51 - 6:54)
It has to be budgeted at the same level as the prior year.

[Speaker 2] (6:55 - 6:56)
Okay, so this has changed from $45,000 to $60,000?

[Speaker 1] (6:57 - 6:57)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (6:58 - 7:02)
Oh, on the screen there. Okay, I'm just looking at the last version. Any other changes that we need to be aware of in this?

[Speaker 1] (7:02 - 7:05)
I'll make you aware of them. There's only three.

[Speaker 2] (7:06 - 7:06)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (7:06 - 7:08)
Can I ask a question on snow and ice?

[Speaker 3] (7:08 - 7:11)
Yep. What have we spent to date this year?

[Speaker 1] (7:23 - 7:30)
The year to date for this year, we have spent $137,162.84. $137,000?

[Speaker 2] (7:31 - 7:33)
Mm-hmm. And that's through the end of February?

[Speaker 1] (7:34 - 7:36)
That's as of this very second.

[Speaker 6] (7:39 - 7:40)
Sorry, what?

[Speaker 1] (7:41 - 7:43)
As of this exact moment. Okay.

[Speaker 6] (7:45 - 7:48)
And what was $22,000? We were slightly over in $22,000?

[Speaker 1] (7:49 - 7:59)
So $22,000, we did go slightly over, but we were able to handle that in year-end transfers. But last year it was $270,000, $079,000, and $83,000.

[Speaker 2] (8:08 - 8:12)
So the $150,000 for external stays, that number hasn't changed? Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (8:14 - 8:20)
Yeah, it's putting the personnel back up to $60,000 and the expense back up to $180,000 for a $240,000 total.

[Speaker 2] (8:21 - 8:23)
Oh, okay. So the $150,000 went to $180,000?

[Speaker 1] (8:24 - 8:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (8:24 - 8:48)
Okay. Sorry, I missed that. Okay.

Any other questions on that one? All right. I didn't have any questions on Board of Health.

I don't know if anybody else did.

[Speaker 1] (8:49 - 9:05)
I do have one change on Board of Health. If you remember, the extra $16,000 in the building expenses, that was typed in the wrong line. It should have been added to the outside services in Board of Health.

So that $4,000 should be $20,000.

[Speaker 2] (9:06 - 9:07)
Sorry, in which line is that?

[Speaker 1] (9:07 - 9:09)
Board of Health, outside services.

[Speaker 2] (9:09 - 9:10)
Outside services, okay.

[Speaker 1] (9:10 - 9:16)
Yep. You'll see it's $4,000. It should be $20,000.

The extra $16,000 is for that mental health referral system.

[Speaker 2] (9:18 - 9:19)
Okay, so that's one of your other changes?

[Speaker 1] (9:20 - 9:20)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (9:20 - 9:20)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (9:21 - 9:25)
So you would reduce it in building. And I can recirculate this spreadsheet.

[Speaker 3] (9:31 - 9:33)
Did you just say we reduce it where?

[Speaker 1] (9:34 - 9:44)
There was an extra $16,000 in the building department expenses. Oh, okay. So it was presented as $16,700, and it should have just been $700.

[Speaker 2] (9:44 - 9:47)
We were asking, that's when you were stumped on last time or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (9:48 - 9:50)
There's always one, at least.

[Speaker 6] (9:52 - 9:56)
And the $16,000, that's for everyone? That's town and school?

[Speaker 1] (9:56 - 10:11)
Yep. So as of right now, it's only been utilized by the school, but it is available to everyone. And from speaking with the schools, they find this to be extremely valuable.

So we did sign a new contract for the service.

[Speaker 15] (10:12 - 10:15)
And it's the staff? Mm-hmm. It's just staff?

[Speaker 1] (10:15 - 10:26)
No, it's staff to refer the students. They can also refer, like, themselves. But it's been being utilized, referring the students for extra support.

[Speaker 2] (10:36 - 11:03)
Okay. Senior center. Again, I have no questions here.

There's nothing significantly different from the previous. Can we just talk about the veterans agent, just to give us kind of the overview there? And then there have been years we've kind of focused on that.

It's all the same this year, but it's a lot of bummer to just blow by it without talking about it.

[Speaker 1] (11:03 - 11:25)
Yep. So the veterans service agent is a shared resource with the City of Linn. So Mike Schultz, the agent that helps Fomscott, and he attends to all of our veterans' office, handles all of that.

They also are the ones who handle putting out the flags for Veterans Memorial Day and having some events.

[Speaker 7] (11:25 - 11:34)
Excuse me, Amy? Yes. It's Naomi.

Hi. Naomi? Something just changed with the microphone, and I can't hear you very well.

[Speaker 12] (11:34 - 11:35)
It sounds like you're far away.

[Speaker 1] (11:40 - 12:33)
Naomi, can you hear me now? Much better. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you, Ethan. So if you'll remember last year when we were setting the FY23 budget, at the request of Mike Sweeney, we had rolled all those expense lines up to one to just do a flat fee instead of them parsing out the Memorial Day and Veterans Day supplies and regular expenses because he just puts that all through his office, and it was cleaner and easier for them.

The assistance line is the actual assistance payments that get paid to the veterans in town. So we get a list from their office. Is it monthly or quarterly?

Okay. So monthly we get a list from their office of the checks, the process, and we just cut those. So that's what the $50,000 is.

[Speaker 2] (12:33 - 12:38)
And that's just defined based on whatever table, however they define it within the Veterans?

[Speaker 1] (12:38 - 12:39)
Yep, however it's determined.

[Speaker 2] (12:39 - 12:42)
And everybody is eligible? It's not need-based in any way? It's just you get it?

[Speaker 1] (12:43 - 12:51)
Yes. I can double-check with him on the actual formula, but I believe it's based off years of service, rank, and all of that.

[Speaker 2] (12:54 - 13:00)
Okay, because there's no funding source anywhere for that. There's just the town that takes it. There's no other way to cover that cost in any way.

[Speaker 1] (13:00 - 13:05)
Yep, so if 17 veterans move to town, we have— Yeah, right, you pay more money.

[Speaker 2] (13:07 - 13:23)
Okay. So the library, I highlighted a lot of things, but it's a lot of CBA stuff, but maybe we can just kind of have a general discussion on that. Let's let everybody ask specific questions.

But a lot of ups and downs, new roles it seems, or changes in salaries.

[Speaker 1] (13:23 - 14:03)
Yeah, so it's not so much changes in salaries. The collective bargaining unit is still made of the same— there's the same number of staff in here. It's just with the new director, he was just changing what lines people were getting charged out of because, like, there isn't really an adult assistant anymore.

But it was the person who replaced the person who used to be the adult assistant who was getting charged out of that line. So he was just putting people in for the roles that they actually have. So that CBA is still made up of the same 16 members, four of which are full-time, 12 of which are part-time.

[Speaker 2] (14:03 - 14:04)
12 are part-time?

[Speaker 10] (14:04 - 14:04)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (14:14 - 14:33)
So, I hear what you're saying, but, like, if we look at, like, the circulation library, let's maybe take an example. Yeah. So the circulation librarian has gone back, what, the five-year average is 44,000, last year we voted 50, and somehow it's ballooned to 164.

So that's multiple people being moved into that by the director?

[Speaker 1] (14:33 - 14:37)
Yeah, so that is the library assistants and the librarians who are moved into that.

[Speaker 2] (14:45 - 14:55)
Yeah, I can see the librarian row itself is zeroed out, so 68,000 out, right? Mm-hmm. Part-time adult assistants out, library assistants out, okay.

Catching on.

[Speaker 5] (14:56 - 15:05)
So were the effects of the movement, was that zero, and the change in the salaried line item is the CBA change?

[Speaker 1] (15:06 - 15:12)
Yep, and there were, I believe there were two people that, there were adjustments made to their hours, but they were part-time, but with minor.

[Speaker 2] (15:14 - 15:21)
And according to your sheet here, the library has 11,000 of 53rd week? Yes. Right, so that accounts for the 10 itself, even.

[Speaker 3] (15:22 - 15:35)
Does this include the school librarians? No. No, this is just going to work in the library.

Do you know how many, they get a lot of grant money, right, that they can just spend? Do you know how much that is?

[Speaker 1] (15:35 - 15:51)
I would have to check, I know that the new director has written a few grants, and is waiting to hear back, but there was only one grant in the last two years that was actually for personnel, and that was an LTA grant, which I believe was 12,000.

[Speaker 3] (15:52 - 15:57)
How much do they get for operations? They get other kinds of grants, right?

[Speaker 1] (15:57 - 16:08)
They get state aid, which gets put directly in its own fund for use of the library. Do you know how much that is? I can pull it up for you.

[Speaker 2] (16:10 - 16:15)
Is that like, can you not use it for recurring expenses type of thing? Is it that type of limitation?

[Speaker 1] (16:17 - 16:28)
It would be, state aid right now has 130,000 in the fund. They receive about 30,000 annually.

[Speaker 3] (16:28 - 16:31)
So they've got 130,000 set aside?

[Speaker 1] (16:32 - 16:38)
They have 130,000 right now in that fund, yes. But they receive about 30 of it annually.

[Speaker 2] (16:42 - 16:48)
It's kind of a black box to me, as it apparently is to the rest of us probably, because we didn't know that number, right?

[Speaker 12] (16:50 - 16:54)
If they have that much, does it mean that they haven't spent any of it in four years?

[Speaker 1] (16:55 - 17:05)
They were building it up because of the library renovations, and they're also using some of the state aid to fund the new library website that they put out to RFP.

[Speaker 2] (17:08 - 17:25)
But just conceptually, I mean, we don't look at it because it's not part of the operating budget, but it obviously has a financial impact to the town because we're getting grant money. I hate to ask for something new, but is there something that you can summarize for us? I don't know how many other groups have grant funds with kind of, I'll call it off-book money.

[Speaker 1] (17:26 - 17:48)
It depends. So obviously the grants, state aid is different from the grants. So state aid has more wide use, whereas grants are the ones that, you know, more explicitly you have community development saying they got a grant for X purpose.

So it's a one-time purpose that they need it for. It's not really ongoing things.

[Speaker 3] (17:49 - 17:55)
So did you just say this is state aid? This is state aid, yeah. So do they have more grants besides what they got for teachers?

[Speaker 1] (17:57 - 17:59)
They didn't have any grants for teachers.

[Speaker 3] (17:59 - 18:02)
Oh, I thought you just said they got a $12,000 grant for... For LTA.

[Speaker 1] (18:03 - 18:06)
It was a specific grant for them to digitize some of their records.

[Speaker 3] (18:07 - 18:14)
Oh, is that, and that's the only grant they've gotten? In the last two years, yeah. So police have grants, don't they?

[Speaker 1] (18:15 - 18:23)
Anyone's able to write grants? I know the fire chief got a grant for one of their, for some of the upgrades that they needed as well.

[Speaker 5] (18:24 - 18:27)
The library director's new, right? Yes. When did he start?

[Speaker 1] (18:27 - 18:43)
He started in, I believe he started right before town meeting or right after. So he started in the early summer. He was in that wave of people.

[Speaker 2] (18:44 - 19:03)
So I guess what I was asking, Amy, and I'm open to other suggestions, but I'd just like to see what the numbers are, not that we're necessarily going to make some kind of request, but I wouldn't want to be sitting here not knowing that there's 130 sitting there for state aid that's in a fund that they're building up, and there's another 130 over here and 250 over there, and it adds up to, you know...

[Speaker 1] (19:03 - 19:06)
Do you want all grants, like federal, state, and... I think that's what I want, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (19:06 - 19:07)
Okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (19:08 - 19:12)
I only make the face because I don't think you realize the extent of what you're going to get.

[Speaker 2] (19:12 - 19:17)
Well, tell me about it. That's fine. Is this something you already have?

You already have schedules on it?

[Speaker 1] (19:17 - 19:18)
It's just something we can download out of Munis.

[Speaker 2] (19:18 - 19:18)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (19:19 - 19:21)
It's just, you know, if you want more detail, that's where...

[Speaker 2] (19:21 - 19:27)
Why don't we start with a simple download, and then we'll look at it and decide if we need more analysis or whatever, but I think we should at least understand it.

[Speaker 5] (19:28 - 19:29)
Are you asking just for the library?

[Speaker 2] (19:29 - 19:48)
No, I'm asking for any state aid, like reserve funds, or an activity of state aid, just so we have a feel for what they're getting, because just because it doesn't show in this, it doesn't mean the town's not spending the money, and so we should at least be aware of what the inflows and outflows are. And then I guess I'm asking for grants too, if there's things that aren't transparent to us for grants.

[Speaker 9] (19:49 - 19:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (19:50 - 19:52)
Okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (19:52 - 19:59)
I guess with that... Take this account last year. I'm sorry?

$400,000 for the rent department or something like that.

[Speaker 10] (19:59 - 20:00)
Yeah, good example.

[Speaker 6] (20:00 - 20:05)
That's the revolving. Revolving, but similar idea. Yeah, I think conceptually that's what we're trying to understand, right?

[Speaker 10] (20:05 - 20:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (20:05 - 20:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (20:07 - 20:07)
Sorry, what did you say?

[Speaker 8] (20:07 - 20:12)
Did we take this into account last year? Or is this something that's...

[Speaker 2] (20:12 - 20:19)
No, we didn't talk about it or know about it specifically, but it doesn't impact the operating budget, so we didn't necessarily have to, but...

[Speaker 3] (20:19 - 20:21)
I think we've talked about it in some years. Oh, for sure.

[Speaker 1] (20:22 - 20:29)
If you look at the audited financials we have, that also lists out all the different funds that we have.

[Speaker 2] (20:30 - 20:32)
Is it all in one place in those audited financials?

[Speaker 3] (20:34 - 20:35)
You like it when you give it.

[Speaker 1] (20:35 - 20:47)
I'm like, I just looked at our CFA today because that just got issued, and that one is specifically for federal grant monies, but I don't think they're all listed out. I think they consolidated it in there.

[Speaker 2] (20:47 - 21:12)
I think if you do the export from there, it would be a good starting point. Thank you. All right, aside from that, there's not much else going on in the library now that we understand the net change, I think.

Recreation. Can we just talk about that briefly? We have the revolving fund for recreation, right?

[Speaker 1] (21:13 - 21:34)
Yep. This is just the general fund portion. Auxiliary staff is the lifeguards that you see down the beaches.

It's typically for 10 weeks, two persons per shift, and I believe there's one beach that's not as busy that is typically only staffed on the weekends.

[Speaker 2] (21:37 - 21:44)
Okay, and then when we go through the expenses, like beach sticker processing, it costs us $15,000 to process beach stickers?

[Speaker 1] (21:44 - 22:17)
Yeah, so this is something the rec director and the town administrator and I were talking about earlier. So right now, where the beach stickers have to be purchased online, it's through City Hall systems. They purchase it, and it gets mailed from there.

So the processing is that added cost. We have talked about this year bringing them, still allowing people to have the option to order them through City Hall system if they want to just order it online and have it mailed to them, but also bringing them back to Town Hall so you can just go to Resident Services and get a beach sticker there.

[Speaker 2] (22:18 - 22:22)
What about just adding the fee of processing to the cost when they're buying it from City Hall Services?

[Speaker 1] (22:24 - 22:26)
I mean, we could do that.

[Speaker 4] (22:26 - 22:29)
How much are these beach stickers?

[Speaker 6] (22:32 - 22:33)
These are $20.

[Speaker 1] (22:34 - 22:44)
Yeah, I know that we are discussing changing the fee this year. I believe it's $8 for seniors and $20 for other residents.

[Speaker 2] (22:49 - 22:53)
Okay, I'm going to suggest we skip debt service because we're going to talk about that.

[Speaker 3] (22:54 - 22:58)
Back on revolving fund, would you say the balance is in the revolving fund account?

[Speaker 1] (22:58 - 23:07)
I can pull it up for you. As of this moment, it's $391,279.

[Speaker 3] (23:13 - 23:14)
What's the plan for that?

[Speaker 1] (23:18 - 23:28)
We have already ordered the sailboats that were not done in capital last year, and were instead done through revolving, so that expense hasn't hit yet because we don't pay until they're received.

[Speaker 3] (23:28 - 23:31)
How much do you think that's going to be?

[Speaker 1] (23:32 - 23:33)
Is it $80?

[Speaker 6] (23:35 - 23:36)
I thought it was $40,000.

[Speaker 1] (23:37 - 23:39)
I think it was $30,000.

[Speaker 3] (23:40 - 23:42)
$30,000 for sailboats.

[Speaker 6] (23:42 - 23:45)
Maybe $10,000 for the paddleboards or something.

[Speaker 1] (23:48 - 24:18)
And then, right now, they just opened up the calendar for their summer program, so there's extra revenue in there from people who have already started signing up and paying, but we haven't realized the expenses yet for it because those don't happen until the event happens. So it's very cyclical. I do have a plan from the recreation director and the assistant director on how they were going to expend their fund this year.

So I can share that with you guys.

[Speaker 2] (24:18 - 24:28)
Yeah, that would be pleased. I mean, I'm assuming they have their general practices to keep some dollars in there and not necessarily spend it all, right?

[Speaker 1] (24:29 - 25:13)
No, so they do have a baseline of what they consider the cushion to be, and they also have added some new programming this year, so I know that they added an extended day park week, a rain or shine extended day park week, so that way, you know, parents have that assurance that rain or shine, their kids will be at park week. It's also a longer day. I believe the original was only, like, three or four hours a day, and that's been something that was requested.

And then, obviously, the increase in the paddle board programming, and I believe there was one more that they added.

[Speaker 3] (25:19 - 25:21)
How many sailboats are they getting for $30,000?

[Speaker 1] (25:22 - 25:25)
That was two.

[Speaker 3] (25:27 - 25:28)
How many do they have altogether?

[Speaker 1] (25:30 - 25:33)
I want to say they have four, but I am not positive on that.

[Speaker 6] (25:34 - 25:39)
I think they have probably, with the two new ones, close to 10. Okay. It's more than five.

[Speaker 3] (25:40 - 25:42)
Do they all need to be replaced, would you know?

[Speaker 6] (25:44 - 25:53)
I think that with the two new ones, you know, maybe it becomes a cycle where they buy a couple every few years, but I think, in general, the conditions aren't too bad.

[Speaker 3] (25:54 - 25:54)
Just curious.

[Speaker 6] (26:00 - 26:04)
I mean, if the program expanded, they probably need more boats, too. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (26:05 - 26:09)
Are they committed to taking care of their own sailboats through the Recreation Revolving Fund?

[Speaker 10] (26:10 - 26:10)
Hmm?

[Speaker 3] (26:10 - 26:17)
Are they committed to maintaining and buying new boats through the Recreation Revolving Fund? Mm-hmm. Okay.

[Speaker 6] (26:18 - 26:27)
I believe there's a non-profit, though, Friends of Swarovski Sailing, that does help with some costs, maintenance. Just donations, you mean?

[Speaker 10] (26:27 - 26:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (26:28 - 26:39)
Okay. Anything else on that one? Was there a fundraiser for fireworks on St. Paddy's Day?

[Speaker 1] (26:40 - 26:40)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (26:40 - 26:43)
Oh, yeah. Do you know what the, like, proceeds were?

[Speaker 1] (26:43 - 26:44)
I believe 8,000.

[Speaker 6] (26:45 - 26:45)
Four?

[Speaker 1] (26:45 - 26:45)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (26:49 - 26:55)
Do you know if that was what their hope was at? Did they have a hope? They always have hopes.

[Speaker 1] (26:57 - 27:39)
Yeah. The thing that came up with it was we were allowed to use the golf course free of cost except for food every other year, and Marblehead gets it free of cost on the off years. But because of work that we had done in the past at the golf course, they gave us it for free for 10 years.

So this is the first year where we don't have it for free. So we're not going to have as much proceeds from the golf tournament this year that we previously knew, and that obviously funds 4th of July. So there are added fundraisers this year.

[Speaker 5] (27:39 - 27:42)
How much is the 4th of July fireworks?

[Speaker 1] (27:43 - 27:52)
It's a $10,000 deposit, and then I believe our portion is an additional 20 or 24,000.

[Speaker 5] (27:53 - 27:55)
So the 10,000 here is just the deposit?

[Speaker 3] (27:58 - 28:04)
What's Lynn's portion? Is it the same? No, much higher.

Do you know how much more?

[Speaker 1] (28:04 - 28:20)
No, we only negotiate how much we contribute to it. So if they decide to scale back, then that would be a different conversation, but they pay the whole bill and we just give X amount that's negotiated annually to win for it.

[Speaker 3] (28:21 - 28:22)
How does that work?

[Speaker 2] (28:22 - 28:25)
Sorry, we pay 34,000 total and they pay everything else.

[Speaker 3] (28:27 - 28:31)
Maybe all they're paying is 34,000. How do we know what they're paying?

[Speaker 1] (28:32 - 28:38)
I believe when the town administrator and recreation director meet with them, they discussed previous costs.

[Speaker 6] (28:40 - 28:45)
I thought it was roughly a hundred thousand. I think the total cost is roughly a hundred thousand.

[Speaker 1] (28:54 - 29:33)
Commercial grade fireworks are actually extremely expensive. I had the same conversation the first year I started because I was like, this seems really expensive for fireworks. And they were like, yeah, if we only spent $34,000 on fireworks, it would be over in like two minutes.

And I was like, oh. That's what we would get. But it's also the cost of like the barge to go out is also a very high cost.

Yeah, but it's handled by them.

[Speaker 10] (29:36 - 29:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (29:42 - 30:14)
You guys ready to move on to employee benefits? I'm just going to skip the debt service for now. All right.

So Amy, maybe we could just talk about this a little bit. I mean, I did go through and kind of look at that, the PEREC memo they gave us and kind of like found all the numbers and the appropriate departments. But can you talk about the workers comp a bit?

The workers comp benefits number. And is that like a set number? Is that estimated or what?

[Speaker 1] (30:14 - 30:34)
That's a set number. So we pay for a worker's comp policy. And that is what that policy is each year.

They handle all the claims for us. They handle everything else. So that's not a fluctuating number.

And it does very like every other insurance based off like the risk and previous years claim.

[Speaker 2] (30:34 - 30:37)
How many years of negotiation for that? Do we do as an annual?

[Speaker 1] (30:37 - 30:46)
So that's part of the property and casualty insurance. That's all through the same broker. So we negotiate that each year.

[Speaker 2] (30:47 - 30:51)
I thought those were still being negotiated, the property. But this one's locked down, you're saying?

[Speaker 1] (30:51 - 30:52)
No. This is also an estimate.

[Speaker 2] (30:53 - 30:55)
Oh, it is. Oh, it is. Okay.

They said this was a set. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (30:55 - 30:58)
No. In theory, it's a set number.

[Speaker 2] (30:58 - 31:02)
Yeah. Okay. So it could change before time meeting I think is what you're saying, right?

[Speaker 1] (31:02 - 31:12)
Yes. So we obviously have the broker that we use now giving us updated quotes as well as reaching out to other companies and getting quotes from them.

[Speaker 3] (31:13 - 31:18)
Do we go out for bid for that? Mm-hmm. Do we go out for bid for that?

[Speaker 1] (31:18 - 31:29)
So we don't have to go out to formal bid. We can just request quotes. Do we do that?

Mm-hmm. We just started the process recently though. So we don't have all of them in yet.

[Speaker 5] (31:31 - 31:35)
The policy covers the town as a whole or does it go by department?

[Speaker 1] (31:36 - 31:37)
Nope. It's the town as a whole.

[Speaker 5] (31:38 - 31:45)
Does that depend on how many people we have in different departments?

[Speaker 1] (31:45 - 32:09)
Yeah. So when we do our workers comp audit every year, like with the insurance company, we have to go through all the hours and wages for each employee, classify them accordingly, and there's a different risk rate depending on, like, obviously a police officer or a DPW worker is a higher risk category than a town hall employee. And so it's based off of all of that information.

[Speaker 5] (32:10 - 32:18)
And then that's just borne. That costs us for the town as a whole. We don't allocate to the different departments.

[Speaker 1] (32:19 - 32:22)
Nope. That's everyone. That's town, school, every single employee.

Okay.

[Speaker 2] (32:32 - 32:34)
How about the employee group health?

[Speaker 1] (32:36 - 32:43)
So that number has gone up just because of the increase in state aid.

[Speaker 2] (32:44 - 32:48)
You mean you provisioned more there because you had more money and you know it's going to be higher?

[Speaker 1] (32:49 - 33:33)
Yeah. So when we got the presentation from the group insurance commission, they said to anticipate anywhere between 4% and 8.1% increases on the rates. The curve ball that we received this year is that a couple of the plans are no longer continuing.

So there are two plans, two active employee plans that they've eliminated and one Medicare plan that is eliminated. Two active plans that were added. One active plan that changed its name, but it's fundamentally staying the same.

One act, two active plans that they've combined into one and two Medicare plans that they've combined into one.

[Speaker 2] (33:33 - 33:35)
So summarizing that there was some plan changes. Yes.

[Speaker 1] (33:36 - 34:25)
Lots of them. And, but the biggest curve ball is one of the plans that they removed is where 33% of our employees are on. So we are guessing.

Estimating where these people might go to figure out how much it's going to cost. Cause we don't know if they're going to go with one of the new plans. We don't know if they're going to go to the second most popular plan.

And obviously there's huge variations in this open enrollment. Open enrollment is next week. It goes April to May 3rd.

So we will have everyone's final settlement before we get to town meeting. But it unfortunately might end up being a very last minute.

[Speaker 2] (34:26 - 34:32)
So it's simply a people count time selected premium selected plan, right? You'll be able to. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (34:32 - 35:12)
Yeah. So we already have the sheet for it and we can download the enrollment at any time from the GIC. It's just, I mean, my hope is obvious that most people make their changes in the first week or so of open enrollment so that I have a better picture into it.

But in our HR department is going to be giving me updates as often as they get them as well. Yep. So everything's already been released by GIC.

They released the new rates. So now it's a matter of waiting for open enrollment and all the employees calling the different plans to see what coverage works for them.

[Speaker 3] (35:12 - 35:15)
How does the split between the town and the employee work these days?

[Speaker 1] (35:16 - 35:31)
So for the HMO plans, it for the non indemnity plans, it's 73% town 27% employee. And for the indemnity plans, it's a 60 40 split 60 town 40% employee.

[Speaker 2] (35:32 - 35:38)
So the 73 27 is medical. Is that what you said?

[Speaker 1] (35:38 - 35:45)
73% is covered by the town. And 27% is covered by the employee for all the non indemnity plans, right?

[Speaker 2] (35:45 - 35:47)
Which is like medical and dental.

[Speaker 1] (35:47 - 35:49)
And no, this is just medical, just medical.

[Speaker 2] (35:49 - 35:52)
Okay. I'm not sure. Explain it with me by non indemnity plans.

[Speaker 1] (35:52 - 36:26)
It's just the type of plan. So like an HMO PPO or POS is considered a non indemnity plan. And that's what most people are familiar with in terms of insurance.

The indemnity plans have a much wider network. So a lot of people who are on the indemnity plans, are on them because they're retired and moved out of state and need more coverage, but they're not quite Medicare age. So they're still on the active plans.

And then once they're on Medicaid, Medicare, they move on to the retiree Medicare plans.

[Speaker 3] (36:28 - 36:36)
So is there, so there's, there's a lot less people that are currently employed in the indemnity plan. Is that what you're saying?

[Speaker 1] (36:37 - 36:39)
Yeah. So right now.

[Speaker 3] (36:40 - 36:43)
So more people in the plan where the town pays 73%.

[Speaker 1] (36:44 - 37:22)
Yes. Those are the more popular plans. So right now for active employees out of 373 active non Medicare plans, 11 of them are on an indemnity plan.

However, for the retiree Medicare plans, we have 401 of which 371 are on an indemnity plan.

[Speaker 3] (37:23 - 37:24)
Can you say that one more time?

[Speaker 1] (37:25 - 37:34)
Sorry for the Medicare retiree plans. There's 401 people on them, 371 of which are on the indemnity plans.

[Speaker 3] (37:39 - 37:46)
So we've got about as many retired versus active people receiving healthcare benefits.

[Speaker 1] (37:47 - 37:55)
Yep. So as long as you have worked for the town for at least 10 years, you are allowed to have lifetime health insurance through the town.

[Speaker 3] (37:55 - 37:57)
You're allowed to have what health insurance?

[Speaker 1] (37:57 - 37:58)
Lifetime health insurance.

[Speaker 3] (37:58 - 37:59)
Lifetime.

[Speaker 1] (37:59 - 38:11)
Yep. You are required. Benefit.

And that's why it's so wonderful to work for the town. You are required to enroll in Medicare after, at the age of 65.

[Speaker 3] (38:11 - 38:16)
So is that all that's all done? The 10 years is all done by a contract.

[Speaker 1] (38:17 - 38:25)
Yeah. So it's tracked by the retirement system and TRS and all that. So it's years of service.

It doesn't have to all be in Swampscott.

[Speaker 2] (38:25 - 38:32)
Does it have to be continuous? Like if you leave the town, you got 10 years and then 10 years later, you're saying how to check the box and take that insurance now.

[Speaker 1] (38:32 - 38:54)
Yeah. So like my, myself who is not, not yet close to retirement age, I could work 10 years in different municipalities. And then when I hit retirement year, I put in for my retirement.

And even though I wouldn't have worked in municipalities for like 15, 20 years at that point.

[Speaker 3] (38:55 - 38:58)
So it's where you retire from that town pays the cost.

[Speaker 2] (38:58 - 39:04)
Is there an employee? I know you're not, even if you're not employed, is there no contribution? Like is this, do you have to pay anything at that point?

It's no.

[Speaker 1] (39:04 - 39:29)
So like just use Swampscott as an example. So like if I did all 10 years in Swampscott and then reverted back to the private sector, like I could do that. I got my 10 years.

And then when I decided to retire, I send my thing into probably not Nancy at that point, but then my paperwork into the retirement system. And I just pick up health insurance.

[Speaker 2] (39:29 - 39:34)
So it just goes to the OPEB baseline basically. Wow. Okay.

[Speaker 5] (39:36 - 39:41)
So it's where you last worked. It's not allocated.

[Speaker 1] (39:42 - 40:21)
It's where you retired from. So I, I believe that the retirement system does bill the other communities for their portions. Yeah.

Cause it's the same as like if you retire from Swampscott, but you worked five years in Marblehead beforehand, like the Swampscott contributory retirement system is the one you'll get a check from. But, but they bill Marblehead retirement system for theirs. Yes.

So that's not necessarily half, but for their, their obligation.

[Speaker 3] (40:22 - 40:38)
So the $7 million group health insurance costs, it's how much of it is for, I mean, I guess I should just put it, no, I can't just put it in half because of these other percentages, how much is for active employees of the 7 million that we're going to pay?

[Speaker 1] (40:38 - 41:41)
So for. The enrollment in January. And with the assumptions of where people were going to go from that plan, 5.15 is for active employees. About 1.2 million is for Medicare plans. There is about $30,000 for PEC stipends. There's a $10,000 fee to the administration of the cafeteria plan.

$12,000 for life insurance premiums, $8,100 for Medicare part B penalties for any retirees who enroll in part B late. $555,500 for Medicare part B premiums, which is 70% of the part B premiums. And then a small contingency of right now.

[Speaker 3] (41:41 - 41:48)
Are we paying the penalties for the retirees that didn't do that themselves?

[Speaker 1] (41:48 - 41:49)
Yep. It gets charged to us.

[Speaker 13] (41:51 - 41:54)
Why do what themselves? Sorry. Was that that didn't do what themselves?

[Speaker 3] (41:54 - 41:59)
They didn't enroll in Medicare. I think, is that what it was then on time? Something like that.

[Speaker 1] (41:59 - 42:11)
So if you don't enroll in Medicare in time, like I believe you have like 90 days after your 65th birthday. If you enroll late, the town has assessed penalties on it.

[Speaker 3] (42:12 - 42:26)
Not that the retirees can afford, but why aren't the retirees paying for that penalty as opposed to the town? Cause I've heard other towns where it's the, it's the retirees that are expected to pay. And I'm not saying that they can afford it or that they could afford it, but I'm just curious.

[Speaker 1] (42:27 - 42:31)
Yeah. I believe right now it's part of our PAC agreement that we pay that.

[Speaker 3] (42:32 - 42:38)
Does the town have a process to make sure that it gets, that we don't, that we can eliminate penalties going forward?

[Speaker 1] (42:38 - 42:52)
Yeah. So we've been working with their retirement systems and MTRS to make sure that when people hit or approaching 65, that they're being notified and reminded to enroll in their Medicare party.

[Speaker 3] (42:54 - 43:04)
So these are people that don't work in the town and we don't necessarily, we do know where they are and we have to call them to say, you have to, you have to enroll.

[Speaker 10] (43:05 - 43:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (43:07 - 43:13)
Or we get penalized. That's a lot.

[Speaker 2] (43:16 - 43:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (43:19 - 43:30)
I mean, we don't, I say we, the town, we don't have like always the most up-to-date contact information or anything on that. So it is a retirement system that normally communicates that with them.

[Speaker 7] (43:32 - 43:34)
So there's one employee of the retirement system.

[Speaker 1] (43:35 - 43:40)
There's a full-time admin and a part-time admin for the retirement system right now.

[Speaker 5] (43:41 - 44:00)
So if someone works in Smallsville for two years and then works in Marblehead for eight and then they retire, our portion for those two years, where does that come out of the budget? You're talking like for their pension? Yeah, for our healthcare and pension, our obligation right in here.

Is it part of these line items?

[Speaker 1] (44:00 - 44:25)
It would be, if someone does not retire from Swamp, it would just be part of that pension line. So what's in the health insurance line is just, it's not people that could enroll in health insurance. It's who's currently enrolled in ours.

And the contingency is for, you know, people who either switch from an individual or family plan or additional FTEs that get hired.

[Speaker 5] (44:26 - 44:52)
Yeah. I mean, I was asking, you earlier had said that if someone retires, you know, we have to, if someone retires from here, we have to pay it. But then they've worked in other municipalities, they pay a portion of that.

So if someone, so the reverse, right? If someone worked here and then retires from someone else, then we have also some payment obligation.

[Speaker 1] (44:52 - 44:54)
That would be in the pension obligation.

[Speaker 5] (44:55 - 44:58)
And so that's part of this pension obligation line? Or where is that?

[Speaker 1] (44:59 - 45:14)
Oh, yeah. So when you look at the contributory pension line, that 5.934, that's where all of that is. So that's all of our pension obligation for that fiscal year.

[Speaker 5] (45:14 - 45:17)
So not just people that retire from here, but also...

[Speaker 3] (45:18 - 45:21)
So retiree health is under pension?

[Speaker 1] (45:23 - 45:30)
Retiree health for people who are on our actual health insurance is in part of that employee group health. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (45:30 - 45:34)
It doesn't matter if they're retired or not. That's where the cost of...

[Speaker 1] (45:34 - 45:48)
Yeah. Anyone who is on our health insurance is in there. If someone retired from another system and we are paying our obligation to them, that would be in the pension.

Part of the pension.

[Speaker 5] (45:53 - 45:59)
So there's like 300-something active employees and 400-something retirees.

[Speaker 3] (46:02 - 46:03)
373 active.

[Speaker 5] (46:03 - 46:09)
So the 400 retirees, that includes people on Medicare.

[Speaker 1] (46:10 - 46:12)
That is only people on Medicare.

[Speaker 5] (46:13 - 46:13)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (46:13 - 46:15)
So those are Medicare supplement plans.

[Speaker 3] (46:22 - 46:43)
So does it work like that with pensions too? Not just health? So, for example, somebody retires, but they worked here for however many years it takes to qualify for pension.

They get that from... Do they get part of the payment for their pension payment out of Swampscott and Marblehead in this? You only receive one check.

[Speaker 1] (46:44 - 46:46)
So that is where...

[Speaker 3] (46:46 - 46:51)
But does it come from Swampscott even if they worked 17 years or whatever? Is it 10 years for pension too or is it 20?

[Speaker 1] (46:51 - 47:15)
Yeah, it's 10 and I believe you get 20 or 25 percent of your average of your highest three consecutive earning years. But... So, yes, if you worked for Swampscott and that's where you retired from, you would receive a paycheck, a pension check from the Swampscott Contributory Retirement System.

[Speaker 10] (47:15 - 47:16)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (47:16 - 47:32)
But behind the scenes, Swampscott Contributory Retirement is billing every other place that you worked for your obligation portion. So you would only receive one check. Everything is being reconciled and handled behind the scenes.

[Speaker 3] (47:33 - 47:36)
But their pension is based on the highest three years?

[Speaker 1] (47:36 - 47:42)
It's the highest three consecutive earning years. It does not have to be the most recent. And it's the average of those.

[Speaker 3] (47:43 - 47:46)
And it's how much of the average? The entire amount?

[Speaker 1] (47:46 - 47:50)
It depends on how many years of service you have and the age at which you retire.

[Speaker 3] (47:51 - 47:52)
So can you just give a quick...

[Speaker 1] (47:53 - 48:17)
So the maximum is 80 percent. So the max that you could ever receive is 80 percent and the chart caps out at 65. So if you started your career young enough to have hit, I believe it's 20 years.

[Speaker 3] (48:18 - 48:20)
And you're 65.

[Speaker 1] (48:20 - 48:37)
Yeah, it's 20, 25, something like that. But you have to have done that many years to hit the 80. So depending, if you only did 10 years and retired at like 55, you'd only get, I believe it's 20 or 25 percent.

[Speaker 3] (48:38 - 48:44)
So it would be 80 percent of your highest, of the average of your highest three years for the rest of your life.

[Speaker 1] (48:45 - 49:07)
Yep, so the annuity is... The annuity is paid out first. That's very good.

Yeah, the annuity is paid out first and then the pension kicks in second. There's also four different options that you can elect when you retire. If you get the whole amount, if you're going to get it in, your surviving spouse is going to get it.

All different.

[Speaker 3] (49:08 - 49:09)
Is this standard with...

[Speaker 1] (49:10 - 49:10)
Yes.

[Speaker 7] (49:11 - 49:12)
Municipal?

[Speaker 3] (49:13 - 49:21)
I mean, it's not all municipalities. Well, is it all municipalities? On the pension and the health?

Not on the health, because the health could be split differently, right?

[Speaker 1] (49:21 - 49:43)
Yeah, so health is based off of that municipality's... You can either have a PEC agreement like we do that encompasses everyone in all collective bargaining or I believe it would be a bit of a nightmare, but you could also negotiate different amounts with each collective bargaining group, like union and everyone separately.

[Speaker 3] (49:43 - 49:45)
What's the PEC agreement? What's that stand for?

[Speaker 1] (49:45 - 49:46)
Public Employee...

[Speaker 3] (49:47 - 49:49)
Okay, contribution or something?

[Speaker 1] (49:49 - 49:53)
Yeah. What is it? It is commission, okay.

[Speaker 2] (49:54 - 50:13)
So... Commission, thank you. Just a couple of questions, because as this relates to the unfunded pension liability and the OPEB liability, right?

Mm-hmm. How do we... I think we asked this question or it came up in one of our prior meetings, like we've got whatever it is, 7.2 million of employee group health costs.

[Speaker 9] (50:13 - 50:14)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (50:14 - 50:16)
That includes people who have retired.

[Speaker 9] (50:16 - 50:16)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (50:17 - 50:40)
So to me, that's post-employment benefit costs in theory, because they are not employed anymore, but they're getting benefit costs. That's why I'm thinking of that. But I know we have this unfunded OPEB liability that we're...

I don't think we're putting any money in the way this year, but we have in the past. So how do I... How do we understand the difference between what's running through the operating budget in the current year versus this unfunded liability that kind of sounds like it's for at least a component of those same benefits?

[Speaker 11] (50:44 - 50:45)
I'm going to define it for her.

[Speaker 3] (50:46 - 50:47)
Good question.

[Speaker 4] (50:49 - 51:58)
So we are on a pay-as-you-go basis with these post-employment benefits. So that means all of our cost is in the operating budget. We have the OPEB Trust Fund, which was established to build us up eventually to a point where we might be able to calculate an actuarially defined contribution for each year, just as we do with the pension liability, and use that as a structured way to shift away from pay-as-you-go, and now we're offsetting some or all of that cost through this reserve.

The reserve isn't built up at that point. We don't use the reserve to pay these costs. We don't have an actuarially determined contribution at this time, and that's just a matter of policy.

I think there's been conversations in the past, and obviously the pension is... We're required to fund that by a certain date. The OPEB liability, we are not at this time.

So we are pointing the available funds at the pension obligation.

[Speaker 3] (52:00 - 52:03)
What's the unfunded OPEB liability and the unfunded pension liability now?

[Speaker 4] (52:03 - 52:11)
The unfunded OPEB liability. Most recently calculated, it was approximately $98 million.

[Speaker 3] (52:12 - 52:14)
How about pension these days?

[Speaker 4] (52:15 - 52:18)
Pension? The pension. Do you know the unfunded pension?

[Speaker 3] (52:32 - 52:36)
What was the last amount that we had?

[Speaker 5] (52:37 - 52:39)
I thought it was 27.

[Speaker 7] (53:01 - 53:12)
I'm curious how other towns are paying down their OPEB liability, that responsibility. How are towns doing it? We're not the only ones with this huge number.

[Speaker 4] (53:13 - 53:23)
No. The priority, I think, for most municipalities is the pension because that's regulated by the state and has to be funded by a certain date.

[Speaker 2] (53:24 - 53:31)
I think the financials you sent at the end of 22 said the ending pension liability was like $115 million. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (53:33 - 53:37)
So we're thinking it's going to go up because of what's happened with investment?

[Speaker 11] (53:37 - 53:41)
Yeah, so 2021 was a really good market performance.

[Speaker 1] (53:43 - 54:01)
2022 was not a good market performance year, so we're trying to see how that shakes out. Our actuary is already working on that new valuation, so the board should be getting that in April. Nothing in that will affect FY24's appropriation.

[Speaker 6] (54:03 - 54:12)
Does the pension contribution, is that what we're contributing to the pension fund as well?

[Speaker 1] (54:12 - 54:12)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (54:13 - 54:17)
So this has already been negotiated, the Retirement Board has approved that number?

[Speaker 1] (54:18 - 54:28)
Yeah, so that's not negotiated. That is the retirement system votes a funding schedule, and it is assessed to the town. So it just is.

[Speaker 2] (54:29 - 54:39)
It's out of our purview, right? We don't have any control. They decide what it's going to be by working with their advisors.

What's 2031 is the payoff schedule?

[Speaker 1] (54:39 - 54:39)
As of right now.

[Speaker 5] (54:40 - 54:43)
At that point, the 115 has to be zero, is that right?

[Speaker 1] (54:43 - 55:04)
So once we, when we are doing FY2032, the year in which we have funded our pension system, we will just have current year contributions, and the remainder of those funds would be directed to paying off OPEB.

[Speaker 2] (55:05 - 55:08)
The remainder of what funds? You lost me there.

[Speaker 1] (55:08 - 55:25)
So out of the 5.9, once we hit FY2032, or the year after we have fully funded the pension obligation, we'll still have a contribution every year, but it will just be that actual current year's obligation.

[Speaker 2] (55:25 - 55:33)
So we should expect the 5.9 to drop to some much lower number because we're no longer funding the unfunded liability. Is that also pay-as-you-go at that point, Patrick, or is that?

[Speaker 1] (55:34 - 55:51)
Yeah, so we would just be paying that future year's obligation in each year. So if I want to just guesstimate and say that it's $900,000, then we would have $5 million at that point to start paying down the OPEB liability.

[Speaker 2] (55:51 - 55:57)
It's just a guesstimate, though. Can we not determine that number? I think we've talked about this before.

[Speaker 1] (55:57 - 56:04)
No, I would be really amazing at my job if I could guesstimate 2032.

[Speaker 2] (56:05 - 56:08)
No, but today, like of the 5.9 that we have in the operating budget.

[Speaker 1] (56:08 - 56:26)
No, so I checked with Nancy on that, and the way it's done is it would actually cost a lot of money to have our actuary break out, like what's current year obligation versus prior year obligation, and obviously the retirement board is not going to pay for that.

[Speaker 3] (56:26 - 56:34)
But you know how much right now is the current contribution of this 5.9 million versus the contribution to fund the unfunded pension liability just in fiscal 24?

[Speaker 13] (56:35 - 56:35)
No.

[Speaker 1] (56:36 - 56:40)
How is that possible? That's something that the actuary would have to break out separately.

[Speaker 3] (56:40 - 56:59)
But don't they do that when they come up with their actuary report? Because in your disclosure document, don't you have that whole breakdown of the current contribution versus the amortization of the unfunded pension liability? Don't you show that?

I think you do. No, don't you show it? I can double check it, but.

I think it's in the audit.

[Speaker 2] (57:01 - 57:02)
The town's audit or the retirement?

[Speaker 3] (57:02 - 57:55)
I'm thinking the town's audit, because we use it all the time in that retirement section of your disclosure document. So I think that the Excel, well, we're showing the amortization of the unfunded pension liability. What I have to do is subtract that from this total contribution in fiscal 24.

Well, also what I think the whole finance committee knows, you don't have to permanently fund that until 2040 by state law. Correct. But the retirement board gets to decide how far it goes.

So the town and the retirement board would have to kind of somehow think together to extend it past 2031. But when you get a new number and it's something awful and it's going to impact each year between now and 2031, you might be, I don't know what the town might be thinking, or what the finance committee might be thinking.

[Speaker 5] (57:55 - 58:00)
Who's covered by the pension? Is it town and school or just town?

[Speaker 1] (58:01 - 58:39)
So it is all town employees, including the school, less people who are in mass teachers' retirement system, less people who are in, if you are under 20 hours, then you are in a separate retirement system. So it's all employees who work 20 hours or more, regardless of whether you're employed by the town or school, but certain school employees are in the mass teachers' retirement system based off certifications.

[Speaker 7] (58:39 - 58:44)
So those are the teachers, but all the other school employees who are not teachers.

[Speaker 2] (58:44 - 58:52)
So most of the schools, which is mostly teachers, are not in this plan? Yes. Right, that's what I thought.

[Speaker 5] (58:52 - 58:57)
For pension only, not like teachers' aides? Are they teachers for this purpose?

[Speaker 1] (58:57 - 59:05)
It honestly depends on if you have the certification. So if you have certain certifications, you are in mass teachers regardless of your position.

[Speaker 3] (59:07 - 59:16)
Okay. So the town is picking up the pension cost for all but the teachers in the school department?

[Speaker 9] (59:17 - 59:17)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (59:19 - 59:21)
So it's not in the school budget? No.

[Speaker 2] (59:22 - 59:35)
Right. So just to go through the thought process when we get to 2031 or whatever that magic year is, I'm under the assumption that we're actually making this payment to the pension fund, this $5.9 million. Yes.

[Speaker 1] (59:35 - 59:38)
We wire them the money on July 1st.

[Speaker 2] (59:38 - 59:56)
Okay. So at that point in time, whatever is due, however the actuary does it, we should have that liability, we will have that liability, right? So there will be no more wiring to be done because it will be fully funded.

But then every year we'll calculate what the current amount due is and we'll send that to them, but that's the end of it, right?

[Speaker 11] (59:57 - 59:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (59:58 - 1:00:04)
And I suppose that every year the new amount could go up or down based on market fluctuations or whatever else could impact that?

[Speaker 1] (1:00:05 - 1:00:34)
Yeah. So it's usually every two. So we do a new valuation every two years.

So you're pretty certain on year one and two. So in this case, it's a new valuation year. So FY25 and FY26 will be set from the new funding schedule because it's voted by the retirement system in the next couple months.

And then after that we'll do a new valuation cycle.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:34 - 1:00:41)
So did they pick a number for next year already? It sounds like they already know. There won't be a debate about what next year's retirement number is?

[Speaker 1] (1:00:43 - 1:00:43)
Like FY24?

[Speaker 2] (1:00:44 - 1:00:44)
25.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:45 - 1:00:51)
Oh, FY25. No. So that's what we're going to get.

So we haven't even seen the stuff from the actuary yet on the valuation.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:52 - 1:00:57)
Okay. So are we in the second year of a two-year cycle this year? Okay.

I thought you said it was in the first year. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:58 - 1:01:12)
No. This is a valuation year, but FY23 and 24 were set from the last valuation year. Okay.

It's a lot of straddling fiscal years.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:14 - 1:01:25)
All right. Anybody else? Any more questions on that crystal clear topic?

[Speaker 6] (1:01:26 - 1:01:28)
I just have one question on the payroll tax.

[Speaker 1] (1:01:28 - 1:01:28)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (1:01:28 - 1:01:35)
Is that because our payroll has increased by 5%? We have more employees. How do we get to that number?

[Speaker 1] (1:01:35 - 1:01:53)
So the additional $25,000 is partially from the 53rd week and partially from just the increase in wages overall, because it is just a percentage. 1.45? 1.45 of wages.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:59 - 1:02:01)
What tax is 1.45 of wages?

[Speaker 1] (1:02:01 - 1:02:03)
Medicare. Employer Medicare.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:03 - 1:02:04)
It's just all of this?

[Speaker 1] (1:02:04 - 1:02:08)
Mm-hmm. We don't do social security here.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:08 - 1:02:09)
Yeah, there's no Medicare. Okay, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:02:09 - 1:02:12)
You're like, wait, that percentage should be higher.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:16 - 1:02:20)
Can you just quickly, what's a non-contributory pension cost, the 13.6?

[Speaker 1] (1:02:20 - 1:02:33)
So way back in the day, employees were paid directly by the town when they retired before the contributory system was in. So there's one remaining person in that.

[Speaker 3] (1:02:35 - 1:02:40)
Can you explain why we have an unfunded pension liability? I think that's an important thing to...

[Speaker 1] (1:02:41 - 1:02:56)
Yeah, so way back in the day, pretty much every city and town was not paying into the pension system for what they should have to prepare for this future liability.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:57 - 1:02:58)
And there was no regulation that said they had to.

[Speaker 1] (1:02:58 - 1:03:28)
There was nothing that said that they had to. And then everyone realized, oh, this is a really bad idea. So they passed legislation that said that you had to start funding this at this schedule.

I believe they've already extended the date once when they extended it to 2040. There is rummaging that they may extend it again, but I think it's going to depend on how people are doing on track.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:29 - 1:03:33)
But current employees are supposedly paying their own way. So is that right?

[Speaker 1] (1:03:33 - 1:04:10)
So current employees are paying into their annuity. It's the pension portion that can exceed it. So if that mythical Sally Swampscott started here when she was 18, put in, you know, 30 years, and, well, she would have to spend more than 30 years, but she retires at 55, perfect health, and she is just living out her pension.

She uses her annuity first, then the pension kicks in, which is beyond what she physically paid into it.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:10 - 1:04:11)
But the annuity comes from the paycheck?

[Speaker 1] (1:04:12 - 1:04:14)
The annuity is what you physically paid into it.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:14 - 1:04:18)
So is this something like 9%? I'm not sure. I mean, it supposedly is.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:18 - 1:04:23)
For new employees, it's 9% plus 2% for any wages over $30,000.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:24 - 1:04:29)
And I think the unfunded came from people that were paying in like 5% back years ago.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:30 - 1:04:37)
Yeah, they used to have different levels. I think they were also like 11s, some 2s, some 7s.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:38 - 1:04:43)
So is the 9% adequate to avoid creating new unfunded pension liability?

[Speaker 1] (1:04:44 - 1:04:48)
That is what we have from the state. Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:49 - 1:04:55)
Is it the same for all municipalities? Mm-hmm. 9% and then the 2 over 30?

[Speaker 5] (1:05:00 - 1:05:25)
If we didn't have an unfunded pension liability, and we kept doing what we're doing now, would we be saying essentially we would not be creating a new unfunded pension liability if we keep paying what we're paying now? I mean, if we're paying, we're trying to catch up and pay off this unfunded liability.

[Speaker 10] (1:05:25 - 1:05:25)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:26 - 1:05:30)
But we're not making it worse. We're making it better with current employees.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:31 - 1:05:31)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:32 - 1:05:34)
So we're not creating a new hole.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:35 - 1:05:49)
No. So once we hit 2031 or the end of the funding schedule, then we're entering into the year of doing what should have been done the whole time and just funding that year's liability.

[Speaker 2] (1:05:50 - 1:05:51)
The current year, whatever developed that year.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:51 - 1:05:51)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:05:51 - 1:05:55)
That's if we pay it off by 2031. If we fund it by 2031, yes.

[Speaker 8] (1:05:56 - 1:06:00)
Is that the date that sets the date? Hm? You said the date.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:00 - 1:06:10)
The state has legislation that has to be by 2040, but it's up to the individual retirement systems to determine the funding schedule that they have.

[Speaker 6] (1:06:11 - 1:06:15)
And so, like, we would have to issue debt if we need to pay $50 million or something?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:15 - 1:06:16)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (1:06:16 - 1:06:19)
How do you get? What if the hole is too big for us to pay in one year?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:20 - 1:07:18)
So that's where the town would have conversations with the retirement system to say, you know, if we can't actually, like, keep enough staff on because of the pension obligation. So that is a conversation that we had with them in a conversation that I had with our actuary. Disclosure, I am on the retirement board.

You know, giving those recommendations of, hey, can you try to keep our funding schedule to this percentage? This is how much our budget can grow year to year. So as close as we can keep to that would be preferable so that you're not creating more budgetary issues for the rest of the town.

But like any other debt and obligation, the more you stretch it out, the more you're kind of stretching out those payments. So the overall obligation is higher, but it does ease the burden if you stretch it.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:19 - 1:07:57)
But if they lost in the pension system $50 million between now and 2031 or in 2030 or whatever there's some kind of event, then that would be a reason to go to 2040, and it might be a reason for the state to say, hey, we're talking about 2050 or 2045. Especially the closer you get to 2040, if you're going out to 2040, the more you'd need to extend it further to deal with it if there was a problem right in 2039. So we've got a lot of wiggle room, but it would cost more to go out.

[Speaker 2] (1:07:57 - 1:08:12)
Which is one of the arguments to not every year, let's say, just keep pushing, right? Because that's what the retirement board says, too, that we want to try. We're on this plan for 2031.

It would be nice if we could afford to stay on that, limit our risk for a black swan event or anything else like that.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:12 - 1:08:14)
So we can start paying OPEB liabilities.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:14 - 1:08:25)
Exactly. Amy, can you just back on the – and I'll be done on this, but when you're saying the teachers or whatever, what comes out of their check first goes into an annuity.

[Speaker 10] (1:08:25 - 1:08:26)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:26 - 1:08:32)
So can you maybe just expand on that? So whatever they're paying, like their union dues or what – not union dues.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:33 - 1:08:34)
It's the retirement contract.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:34 - 1:08:36)
Yeah, the MTRS, whatever it says on the thing.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:37 - 1:08:55)
Yeah. So if they're in the retirement system and they have a nine and two, that shows us two different deduction lines on their paycheck, and every week when payroll is run, the report of that and all that information is given over to the retirement system, as well as obviously those deductions.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:56 - 1:08:58)
And the nine and two, what's the difference between those two things?

[Speaker 1] (1:08:58 - 1:09:12)
It's both. So it's 9% plus the 2% on $30,000 and above. So if someone's earning $50,000, they're getting 9% on $50,000, 2% on the $20,000, which is above the $30,000.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:14 - 1:09:18)
Okay. And that goes into the retirement system.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:18 - 1:09:18)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:18 - 1:09:23)
And when they retire, how do they differentiate what their annuity was versus?

[Speaker 1] (1:09:23 - 1:10:25)
So that's all in the software for the retirement system. They currently use PTG. So that is tracking all of the annuity portion as well.

So when someone's retiring, the admin will sit down and go through what your highest three are, what your calculation is. PEREC approves it to make sure that everything was calculated correctly so they determine what your monthly check is going to be. And it just eats away.

So you deplete your annuity first before it kicks over to the pension amount. So the first paychecks you're getting, while your paychecks are relatively level the whole time, obviously adjustments for COLAs and COLA-based changes. But for the most part, you receive X amount every month for the remainder.

And of that, you're just depleting your annuity first, and then it kicks in the pension. So for the retiree, they're receiving a check regardless. It shows in the breakdown.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:25 - 1:10:28)
But for the retiree, they just get the money and it doesn't?

[Speaker 1] (1:10:28 - 1:10:35)
Yeah, it does show on the little detail at the bottom. They can see the annuity and when the pension part kicks in.

[Speaker 8] (1:10:37 - 1:10:50)
More of a big question. If the retiree doesn't get to start collecting that pension, obviously you go to a family member or does it get refunded?

[Speaker 1] (1:10:51 - 1:10:53)
After they've retired or before?

[Speaker 8] (1:10:53 - 1:10:54)
After they've retired.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:55 - 1:11:33)
So there are different options that they can select. So if they selected, and I'm not even going to guess the letters because I'm going to say it wrong. So if they selected one option, which is it's only paid out to them for the remainder of their life, any remaining annuity portion would be paid to their estate, but the pension would never be realized if they chose another option.

It's their surviving spouse would receive the remainder of the benefits for the remainder of their natural life.

[Speaker 2] (1:11:34 - 1:11:37)
So at a lower payout value if you choose that, right?

[Speaker 1] (1:11:37 - 1:11:52)
Yep. So both the retiree and their spouse would receive a lesser amount because it's assumed it would be going longer. And those are all discussed when the person sits down to discuss their retirement.

It's also on the mass retiree's website.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:53 - 1:12:15)
This is a really dumb question. I'm just mostly curious. If they were married and they got divorced, does the wife and the employee was the husband, does the wife still receive a benefit?

I'm just curious if that's coming from town sponsored retirement system, that the divorce, it would keep going if the choice had been to split up the benefit.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:17 - 1:12:22)
So are you going with someone was married and got divorced and did not remarry?

[Speaker 3] (1:12:22 - 1:12:26)
Oh, yeah. They didn't remarry. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:27 - 1:12:37)
Then in that case, the employee would work with the retirement system and their attorney to come up with a settlement in their divorce agreement.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:38 - 1:12:42)
I'm just curious to understand how far Swanscott's responsibilities go out.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:43 - 1:13:10)
Yeah. So in the event of a divorce, the divorce agreement can only be for the duration of the employee's natural life. A portion of it can be isolated and given to the former spouse.

Then it just gets really much more complex. I think we need to move on. Only a current spouse can receive the surviving.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:11 - 1:13:14)
So we use the GIC.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:14 - 1:13:15)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:15 - 1:13:22)
And how long of a commitment do we have to the GIC? Is it one year at a time? And then they change the rate at which the costs increase.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:22 - 1:13:46)
So the rates change annually, as well as sometimes the plan options with the GIC. We are with the GIC, at least for the duration of our PAC agreement, which I believe has another year and a half, almost a year and a half in it. At which point, I guess if we wanted to negotiate to switch to a private insurer.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:47 - 1:13:55)
Is it possible to be self-insured and then have some kind of an insurance cap on top of that, like an exposure cap on top of that? Do people do that? Do municipalities do that?

[Speaker 1] (1:13:55 - 1:14:18)
There are some municipalities that do it. Most of them have moved away from it, just because the volatility and the expense involved. At the program that Trang and I were just at a few weeks ago, there were a couple of communities that were saying they still are self-insured, but they're so small that they're kind of shielded from that.

But most communities have moved away from that.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:18 - 1:14:21)
Do they put some kind of umbrella exposure?

[Speaker 2] (1:14:22 - 1:14:23)
Stop-loss policies on those things.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:24 - 1:14:33)
You have to have specific insurance policies, and you have to have different liabilities set up for those. But it's very expensive.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:34 - 1:14:40)
It's also just harder to, you know, with the claims coming, it's hard to have a consistent every year. You know, you can pull 3%, 5% or whatever.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:41 - 1:15:00)
Yeah. It also makes your budget a little too personal, because then it's like, oh, the claims went up, but we know that Sally just had a baby, and she really got that. Or like, oh, well, Tom just had cancer, and now look at what it did to our budget.

Like, that's terrible.

[Speaker 10] (1:15:00 - 1:15:02)
It's a lot, Tom. Yeah. It's not great.

[Speaker 9] (1:15:04 - 1:15:07)
We laugh, but we all know that's how those conversations end up going.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:09 - 1:15:15)
You guys ready to move on from this one? Yeah. Just quickly, the voc tech.

[Speaker 9] (1:15:16 - 1:15:16)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:17 - 1:15:28)
I guess just remind us why that's, you know, why that's not part of the school budget, I guess, my first thought. Why isn't that like an outshoot of that? Any logic to that, or is that just the way it's always been kind of thing?

[Speaker 1] (1:15:28 - 1:15:34)
It's assessed to the town, so the town sees it. No, I'm not suggesting we make a change.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:34 - 1:15:40)
When I saw it there, I'm like, it's a school, right? Why is it not sitting in the school side of the ledger?

[Speaker 7] (1:15:45 - 1:15:48)
Our students are going there instead of our own school.

[Speaker 14] (1:15:48 - 1:15:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:15:49 - 1:15:51)
So I think it's a relevant question.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:52 - 1:16:45)
So I do have an update on the voc tech. I'm just trying to find my email. So we did receive our assessment.

So the one in the budget is an estimate. So the 5% was the same increase that we received last year, which would have been spot on because their budget did go up about 5% this year. However, our enrollment went down.

So we had 37 students who were at the voc tech the previous year, and now we are down to 29. So our assessment has gone down to. If this will open.

Our assessment has gone down to. 5, 10, 475.

[Speaker 5] (1:16:49 - 1:16:51)
So that was for 27.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:52 - 1:16:55)
10, 45. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:16:55 - 1:17:01)
So what they do is they take their budget, and then they proportionally spread it over the number of students from each community.

[Speaker 3] (1:17:02 - 1:17:08)
That's not happening next year. So when is that going down like that?

[Speaker 1] (1:17:08 - 1:17:09)
That's for FY 24.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:10 - 1:17:11)
61 is changing.

[Speaker 3] (1:17:12 - 1:17:12)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:17:15 - 1:17:23)
So that's. Is that a fixed per student? Or is there like a.

It's just a proportionate amount.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:23 - 1:17:59)
So in their. Overall assessment, there are 1,309. There were 1,309 students enrolled on the October 1st, 2021 report.

And based off the October 1st, 2022 report, it's 1,360. Of which we are 29 of those 1,360. So proportionally, they take their overall.

Budget of. 21,000,005, 81, 424. And assess us our percentage of it.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:00 - 1:18:20)
I mean, I think that kind of explains why it's probably pulled out of the school budget. Because we had estimated a 5% increase, which is above the 2.6% that we target. And then now we've got a 20% reduction in the year over year costs, which would theoretically create more money for our schools as a benefit.

[Speaker 1] (1:18:20 - 1:18:45)
Yeah. And I did reach out to. Cheryl Herrick Stella at the schools to see if she can find out.

If this is students leaving the tech to come back to sponsor public schools, or if this is just. You know, the eight students. Net if it was, you know, 12 students graduated and only four.

Freshmen went in.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:45 - 1:18:48)
Well, they moved to private school. They left the town or whatever.

[Speaker 1] (1:18:48 - 1:18:58)
Yeah. So they're checking on that to see where those students went to. If they came back to sponsor public or.

If it was just, you know, more graduated than went in.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:59 - 1:19:10)
So sorry to digress on this, but to your point, Matt. Would this look like when we talked about the other budgeting model, right? That.

Well, two things. One, one. Was this on the list of things to be an accommodated cost?

[Speaker 10] (1:19:10 - 1:19:11)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:19:11 - 1:19:18)
Okay. And the other thing that we did say, I think at some point that we were going to try to model 2024 is budget. You guys doing that behind the scenes or is that on your list or what's.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:19 - 1:19:59)
Yeah. So we're doing it behind the scenes. The finance director from the schools and I are also talking about like different.

Models and it's. More so we're trying to parse out. We've parsed out all the health insurance ones now.

To know active and retiree. How many were from the school and how many were from the town. And now we're trying to parse out the pension, which is obviously going to be a much smaller percentage.

School and a much higher. It's going to be very inverse from health insurance. But we're just parsing out all those pieces of it.

To be able to show those. Clear changes.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:00 - 1:20:07)
Okay. So is that something we're going to be able to look at before town meeting? Is that in your thought process or.

Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:08 - 1:20:10)
I was more so making sure that we got this. No, I know.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:10 - 1:20:14)
I totally agree. I don't want to slow this down for that, but I just want to make sure that it's happening somewhere.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:15 - 1:20:21)
Yeah. And if, if this ends up going to the wire, then we can. Do it right after town meeting.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:21 - 1:20:24)
Yeah. We don't have to have it. It would be nice to have, but.

Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:24 - 1:20:34)
Yeah. I think even if we do it after town meeting, it still gives us sufficient time to. Discuss it.

And. Get it in place in term for FY 25. Budgeting.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:35 - 1:20:39)
Is the school budget line that I'm going to hear the right number. Is that an old place?

[Speaker 1] (1:20:39 - 1:20:47)
Yeah. I had sent the thing to the school. They had the wrong number.

And there, it was only about 2,800. Off from this, but this is the number.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:47 - 1:20:50)
What about the stuff in special education?

[Speaker 1] (1:20:50 - 1:20:55)
So we don't put those in here because. They're not. Ours anymore.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:56 - 1:20:57)
Okay. It just shows on their summary. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:57 - 1:20:59)
Yeah. The historical stuff is still there.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:00 - 1:21:01)
So this is the final number.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:02 - 1:21:10)
Just for comparison purposes. Do you know what the per pupil. Cost is for schools.

Or even. Just for the high school.

[Speaker 3] (1:21:11 - 1:21:12)
Can you speak up?

[Speaker 7] (1:21:12 - 1:21:32)
We don't know it. Per school. For our students.

Schools. Question. Yes.

I have that one. It's not separated out by school. Like elementary is a different cost than high school, but you just have sort of an aggregate.

Yeah. So.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:34 - 1:22:22)
It's actually on the website. I'm just pulling it back up. I think that I have it favorited.

So Swamp Scots per pupil. The latest information from Desi is only up to date through 2021. Oh, but.

Their stuff is always behind. But the per pupil for. 2021 was.

18,000. 977. 66.

And for 2020, it was 17,000. And for 2021. 320.

66.

[Speaker 3] (1:22:23 - 1:22:25)
That includes a special ed class. Mm hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:22:37 - 1:22:49)
Okay. Any other questions on that or. The state assessment section.

Just. I'm just noticing your note here.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:50 - 1:22:56)
Yep. So this. This second column.

The 1.916. 900.

[Speaker 10] (1:22:56 - 1:22:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:56 - 1:23:16)
That is updated for. The governor's budget. It will obviously change again.

When. Houseways and means. At least just theirs.

But what you see. Here for 1.916. 900 is the updated assessments from the governor's budget.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:16 - 1:23:20)
So that's why they're just at a flat head. The governor's budget said everything is going up 2% basically.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:20 - 1:23:20)
Mm hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:22 - 1:23:26)
So when does that this will change when the ways and means is done is what you said.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:26 - 1:23:32)
Yeah. Are you showing the. 1.901. Or the 1.9. 1.916. 900.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:32 - 1:23:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:33 - 1:23:33)
Nope. Just want to make sure.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:34 - 1:23:41)
Yeah. But everything in the column shows 2%. On mine.

Anyway. Increases last year. We had different columns showing.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:43 - 1:23:45)
I don't know. Column S is hidden on yours.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:45 - 1:23:53)
I'm looking at column Q actually. This is over here. Yeah.

Yeah. 2% increase for his last year. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:53 - 1:24:07)
So I added. An extra column. On here.

Yeah. So column R is the increase over last year for the town administrator's budget. And column S is for the finance committee.

Budget.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:08 - 1:24:08)
So what's column Q.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:15 - 1:24:16)
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:16 - 1:24:17)
That's the 2% I'm talking about.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:17 - 1:24:37)
Yeah. P and Q was town administrator. R and S is finance.

Mostly I just didn't want to rewrite all my formulas every time we reached another budget level. It's been a bit of a nightmare for you last year.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:38 - 1:24:53)
I'm still not following that. So because we haven't. There's no difference right now between town administrator and schools.

Or maybe you're showing that $16,000 difference. We're not different from. We've made our changes to the town administrator budget at this point.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:54 - 1:24:59)
So yours isn't matching what's on the screen. So like you're missing.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:59 - 1:25:02)
It is. Yeah. I guess we've got.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:03 - 1:25:15)
That's what's on the screen isn't matching my handout. Well, how is that possible that I drive something different than what the latest version. This is the latest.

This is in the works. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:17 - 1:25:23)
So on your mosquito control, if you have 24,000 602. That's how administrators.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:23 - 1:25:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:23 - 1:25:26)
And the governor's budget is the 25 to 70.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:27 - 1:25:32)
We're just missing a column here on this on these that printed out from what we've been sent.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:33 - 1:25:34)
Which column are you missing?

[Speaker 3] (1:25:34 - 1:25:38)
The far right. I've got the 2% in all the caught in that column. That's the last column I got.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:40 - 1:25:44)
Okay. The other ones might be hidden, but I'm going to recirculate the sheet after.

[Speaker 9] (1:25:45 - 1:25:45)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:45 - 1:26:13)
Yeah. So we had put in a 2% assumption when we did the town administrator's budget. Just to be conservative, but still stick with the trends that we've had seen.

Because the governor's budget wasn't released until 4 p.m. the day we were presenting the town minister's budget. The 2.85% that you see on your screen is reflective of what actually changed for the assessments in the governor's budget.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:19 - 1:26:30)
This is a question. Yes. What changed the charter school assessment from the town administrator recommendation to the actual one that is next to it?

Is that the.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:30 - 1:26:35)
So the town of ministries was just a flat 2% to each line increase.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:36 - 1:26:38)
Just an estimate at the time. They didn't know.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:38 - 1:26:41)
So the million 293 is a better number.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:41 - 1:26:42)
Yep. That's the governor's.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:43 - 1:26:44)
And why did that go down?

[Speaker 1] (1:26:45 - 1:26:45)
We have no idea.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:46 - 1:26:50)
But it's not like there's less students that left Swanscot to go to the charter school.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:50 - 1:26:54)
Yeah. We've the state doesn't give us the detail behind their assessment or the receipts.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:55 - 1:26:59)
So do we know how many students are from Swanscot in the charter school?

[Speaker 1] (1:27:01 - 1:27:03)
I can ask the schools if they have that information.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:03 - 1:27:05)
I'd be curious what the trend is in that.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:08 - 1:27:16)
Why doesn't the state give us that information? I mean, why can't the state break down?

[Speaker 1] (1:27:18 - 1:27:34)
Because they don't have to. I'm not sure. They just don't give it to us.

Like for any of them, for the receipts or the assessments. Like, I don't know how that air pollution district one gets calculated either.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:35 - 1:27:37)
Can we invite our state rep?

[Speaker 11] (1:27:38 - 1:27:38)
Hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:39 - 1:27:41)
Can we invite a state rep to ask me a meeting?

[Speaker 11] (1:27:42 - 1:27:43)
You can invite anyone you would like.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:43 - 1:27:44)
Sure.

[Speaker 2] (1:27:46 - 1:27:50)
And say and say what that we want the state to answer our questions.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:50 - 1:28:00)
You can go all the way up to Senator Creighton. Hope the Department of Education see how far you get.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:04 - 1:28:22)
Well, that's the end of the general fund, at least for first round. So we've got a half an hour left. Nine.

Are we prepared to go through the. You know, the what do you call the water and sewer enterprise funds or we're prepared.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:23 - 1:28:26)
But I don't know if you want to do the debt with Patrick.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:26 - 1:28:29)
Yeah. I mean, which one were likely to fit in our half an hour.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:29 - 1:28:35)
Well, I was just thinking that would actually like, you know, wrap up our full first pass serve general fund to do the debt.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:36 - 1:28:51)
I'm fine with that. And Patrick's time to do the debt service. So I'm assuming what you distributed to us Patrick is different than the kind of the draft you sent me.

Is that. I know.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:52 - 1:30:32)
I had shared with the committee. A week or two ago. Link to a folder that has debt projections.

The current draft of the capital plan and some information that we gathered from department heads on the projects as well as a link to recordings from the two long sessions we did with the CIC in October where we went through with projects with department heads. Yeah. So all that information is available in that folder.

You can't access it. Reach out to me and I'll make sure that you get that information. But that was sent around.

So what what I've handed you today as a handout is some summary information. The first page is debt service projections for a general fund and the two enterprise funds as well as some different selections. We have debt exclusions and major projects broken out in there.

That's the first page and that's forward looking. I've included 10 years on this sheet just that it fits on your page. But the Excel document that you have goes out 30 or so.

The next page is a draft summary of the capital plan by funding source. So it's just totals by the different funds or borrowing authorizations that will likely be seeked. And then the last two pages is a summary list of the individual projects that are in the current draft of the capital plan.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:34 - 1:30:48)
So if we go back to that first page. Yes. And I don't know because it's not displaying anymore but do we we have like three point eight million of principal and three point two million of interest.

Can you tie those back to this somehow as if were they different.

[Speaker 4] (1:30:49 - 1:30:56)
Yep. So you're a very top line one on the left. Total general fund existing debt service 6 5 0 2 6 52.

[Speaker 10] (1:30:57 - 1:30:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:30:57 - 1:31:15)
That is slightly below what you see in the budget proposal by about twenty thousand dollars. So there's a buffer built into the budget proposal. But the actual existing debt service here that's 65 0 2 6 52 for FY 24.

[Speaker 7] (1:31:15 - 1:31:17)
Anyway you can put it up on my screen.

[Speaker 4] (1:31:19 - 1:31:34)
You able to. Oh I'm sorry. Are you able to just pull up that budget sheet.

Yeah. The same one and just go to the debt service. Oh perfect.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:35 - 1:31:44)
So 3 8 6 9 and 3 1 9 5 is right. So where do we see those on here. Patrick is it.

Is it added together or something for the six.

[Speaker 4] (1:31:45 - 1:32:02)
Yep. So it's a 6 5 0 2 6 52. And then right below that there is short term debt service of 5 43 7 80 for FY 24.

So those added together. Will be just twenty three thousand dollars shy of what's in the budget proposal there. OK.

[Speaker 3] (1:32:03 - 1:32:10)
Can I ask a favor on this spreadsheet that you guys put together. That's really great. But could you put page numbers on it in the future maybe.

[Speaker 4] (1:32:10 - 1:32:11)
Oh I can.

[Speaker 3] (1:32:11 - 1:32:17)
Just because when we're all talking it's really hard to catch up with the page that you might be on. Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:32:18 - 1:32:20)
Thanks. No problem.

[Speaker 1] (1:32:22 - 1:32:26)
And. Patrick had a copy.

[Speaker 4] (1:32:26 - 1:32:28)
Oh. Someone missing that.

[Speaker 8] (1:32:34 - 1:32:35)
As well.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:58 - 1:33:02)
OK. So this is about 18000 dollar difference or something. Is that.

[Speaker 4] (1:33:02 - 1:33:04)
About twenty three thousand dollars. OK.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:04 - 1:33:09)
So will that ultimately get aligned just like the budget will change or is that.

[Speaker 4] (1:33:10 - 1:33:30)
So this is what you have on this sheet in front of you that's not going to change for FY 24 that existing debt service. That's that's what I have. That's going to be due.

What goes on this sheet here is ultimately up to you to recommend. So we have a little bit of a buffer there for any unanticipated borrowing.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:30 - 1:33:32)
You've got a positive cushion. You get X cost.

[Speaker 4] (1:33:32 - 1:33:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:33 - 1:33:33)
OK.

[Speaker 3] (1:33:40 - 1:33:43)
So can I go back to my question that I started asking before we met.

[Speaker 13] (1:33:43 - 1:33:44)
Which was.

[Speaker 3] (1:33:46 - 1:34:04)
What the assumption is about stabilization fund going out to offset the elementary school. I'm trying to understand what we think we're applying in stabilization funds annually to offset our first I guess on the debt exclusion for the elementary school that's on those two sheets that you've provided.

[Speaker 10] (1:34:05 - 1:34:05)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:06 - 1:34:18)
Are you assuming some amount of stabilization funds on that 3 million or is that 3 million. The actual amount of the debt service on the elementary school bond that we've issued to date.

[Speaker 4] (1:34:18 - 1:34:26)
That is the actual and projected that we will need to pay. So that's the actual. That's not that of any stabilization.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:26 - 1:34:29)
You're never netting anything here. But if we're using funds it would show somewhere else.

[Speaker 4] (1:34:30 - 1:34:32)
This is what we will actually have to appropriate in the budget.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:32 - 1:34:42)
So are we think. So. Does it include the extra money that the elementary school is going to cost when we went up a bit.

[Speaker 4] (1:34:43 - 1:34:43)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:43 - 1:34:44)
Three or four million or whatever it is.

[Speaker 4] (1:34:45 - 1:35:41)
Yes. So if you look under the debt exclusions section you go down about halfway. There's two lines for elementary school.

So the first line is the actual debt that was issued last March of 22. And you'll see there's a three million dollar figure that carries. That's the debt service on that bond for the school the 60 million dollars.

And then there is an additional amount authorized on the next line. And that was the additional. I believe it's on my other sheet but the four million that we have projected going out.

And then there is the additional contingency that was voted at special town meeting. That's not rolled in here. But if we needed to use that that would that would have to be rolled in as well.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:42 - 1:36:09)
So there's no stabilization funds are used on this. I guess the only number on all of this that causes me concern is when the middle school hits and it's another million and a half every year. And I guess I'm curious what is anybody thinking about the use of stabilization funds to offset any of this up front or maybe we're not anymore or maybe we are up front.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:10 - 1:36:22)
We would analyze that at the time. Are you talking about for the middle school. No the elementary school.

Oh the elementary school. Yeah. But prior to issuance we would we would analyze that and see if there's a benefit.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:22 - 1:36:30)
We have to appropriate stabilization funds. So we're planning to have a vote of stabilization funds at town meeting to offset the debt service.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:30 - 1:36:35)
Not for annual. We would take it up at a special one or closer to tax rate.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:36 - 1:36:40)
So in September of this year we might consider that in that time general time frame.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:41 - 1:36:41)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:41 - 1:37:23)
But so right now if we appropriate the full amount of this debt service not that we wouldn't because it's already been issued it's already obligated. But that assumes the gross amount of the debt exclusion and it's not offset on our. It would be offset on the recap with any stabilization funds that the town votes to offset that.

But when we first authorized the debt there was a discussion as to how to sort of smooth the you know smooth in the ease in the impact of that because we were accelerating the debt to take advantage of interest rates. So I guess I'm curious. Did somebody stop thinking that they want to do that anymore.

[Speaker 4] (1:37:24 - 1:37:45)
No. That's still the intention. It's a it's a matter of timing.

My understanding is you know to determine the best use of stabilization to offset the tax impact. You really need to know the assessed values in each year. So we have a clear picture of where assessed values are going later in the year.

So to do it now would be kind of.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:46 - 1:38:24)
So I'm just curious. Did the plan is the plan still to do one or two years of easing in or is it. And I'm just wondering how the thought what happens to stabilization funds as we do it and what happens when we build this middle school middle school where it jumps up a million and a half every year on this on this projection.

So I'm just curious at what point might the town be able to share with the finance committee any kind of options associated with that or plans or anything. I mean I've been kind of curious about it for a while now.

[Speaker 4] (1:38:25 - 1:38:25)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:25 - 1:38:34)
Since before we issued the debt. Actually I've been curious as to what was the plan for the use of stabilization funds then. And now I'm still kind of I'm still very curious now.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:35 - 1:39:20)
So we had a plan then that we talked ad nauseam on multiple plans that we kind of went through. They're all just kind of projected right because we don't know what what's going to be available in stabilization funds or free cash or anything else. I think I think what we're trying to say is that right now it's a very valid question.

I have the same worries like we talked about all that. We understood it at the time but it's a year later and you know what's changed. It doesn't it doesn't actually change our requirement to just understand what's in the current debt service and do it because that's all we're worried about the operating budget this year regardless of what we decide when we set tax rates whether or not we can still afford to use those reserves or not.

You know it'd be great if we had a forecast of that and if you and our Sean have been thinking about that and have updated models I think we'd love to see those.

[Speaker 4] (1:39:21 - 1:39:24)
But yeah I can formalize what I haven't and share it with you. It is.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:25 - 1:39:44)
But if you look at this if you look at this reserve fund page that Amy passed out the stabilization fund balance goes from two million to three and a half million. Oh well that's not where it was. Yes.

Let's see. Twenty two twenty three. Oh there are no.

Well there's a twenty two June 30 twenty two six point seven nine out seven point seven nine.

[Speaker 6] (1:39:44 - 1:39:48)
So I think that that million is the count. It looks like the formula might be off.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:49 - 1:39:51)
Should I dropped in.

[Speaker 6] (1:39:51 - 1:39:58)
Well no because the twenty two might be six point seven for fiscal twenty three. Looks like the formulas are soft.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:59 - 1:40:07)
Looks like we appropriated it. We appropriated it last year we appropriated a million dollars of stabilization funds last year. Did we do that.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:07 - 1:40:07)
Correct.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:08 - 1:40:19)
We did. Yes. OK.

So. So but now we're back up. Well maybe we're not.

We're not at June 30 23. Do we have a balance and stabilization fund right now. Amy.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:21 - 1:40:27)
Yeah. You talk in general or capital.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:27 - 1:41:08)
General. And I guess my other question for you Patrick is why you're looking that up is just to understand is there a way to do something between now and 20 30 or 20 31 when this other middle school is proposed to be another debt exclusion and we'll still have the debt from the elementary school that excluded to prepare for the million five thirty. So we're not quite so.

So that it's more palatable for people to want to buy into it then maybe we could prepare with some of the capital stabilization fund what's happening with that fund.

[Speaker 6] (1:41:09 - 1:41:15)
Did the police department roll off yet. Did that. You can see you can see it right on here.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:16 - 1:41:27)
So that was off in twenty twenty eight. But I have a question. Do we have a five year projection of operating revenues and expenses.

You know how we're supposed to do that in November of each year.

[Speaker 4] (1:41:28 - 1:41:28)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:28 - 1:41:29)
We do that.

[Speaker 4] (1:41:29 - 1:41:33)
We have we have it drafted but it's not complete.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:33 - 1:42:08)
I mean it would be helpful to understand what happens to these reserve positions in that projection or if that projections even balanced. We have a structural imbalance in what you're putting together. I mean I think that would help with the whole picture and I think that town meeting should have the whole picture frankly because we did say when we were accelerating the school debt that we that there were ways to manage it and it'd be helpful to see even if there's multiple ways to manage it.

It'd be helpful to see that and how it ties in with down the road. It's only five years away that we'd be looking for another debt exclusion.

[Speaker 4] (1:42:09 - 1:42:31)
I think it makes a lot of sense. Maybe updating some of the modeling that was done when we were originally contemplating how we were going to finance the school marry that up with a five or 10 year forecast of operating and reserves updated and maybe factor in the assumptions about middle school debt that are sitting here before.

[Speaker 3] (1:42:31 - 1:43:03)
I mostly care about the future as opposed to the past at this point. If you want to do that, we're crazy. I think that it'd be nice to see the next five years right to this middle school project when I look at the debt because it's an opportunity right now.

Maybe we don't appropriate it. I mean maybe we don't appropriate as much stabilization funds as we could because we put it into capital stabilization but not for other capital for this middle school. That's going to be the next.

I don't know what the next big elephant is if it's that or if it's going to be, you know, both being the park.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:04 - 1:43:11)
But right now there's no proposed warrant articles for appropriating or increasing or decreasing stabilization at this point.

[Speaker 10] (1:43:11 - 1:43:12)
No.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:12 - 1:43:35)
Yeah. So generally we're saying it'd be nice to have an update. So as we're again not really related to that service in particular but to know at town meeting even though we're not really worrying about this till this tax rate setting time.

And where are we from a year the last time we talked about this and talked about meeting about what we thought we were going to be able to do is anything dramatically changed or what if there is no town special town meeting in the fall. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:36 - 1:43:37)
And there'd be no information on that.

[Speaker 7] (1:43:39 - 1:43:45)
No. But the more information we offer proactively the more smoothly the discussions go. No.

[Speaker 10] (1:43:46 - 1:43:46)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:43:46 - 1:43:53)
Just need to understand and planning ahead is part of what we're doing better now than what we used to do.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:53 - 1:43:57)
Would we include that in our letter or would that be separate. We might.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:58 - 1:44:15)
I mean or we might maybe we present on it a little bit if we're at the point of Patrick has something that we feel it's solid to be presented we might refresh their memory on what we did a year ago and just kind of reuse those slides at a high level at least and then you know talk about what changes and assumptions have happened since then if any.

[Speaker 6] (1:44:16 - 1:44:40)
We did use some stabilization this past year though to lower the overall tax burden. Yeah. And but part of it also was issuing the debt early increase our interest expense last year which we were able to offset with some interest income as well.

So I think we used more like we're doing what we talked about. Now it's just updating for more actual information. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:41 - 1:44:46)
Well the elementary school that didn't hit in fiscal 23 that's hitting next year for the first time.

[Speaker 6] (1:44:47 - 1:44:50)
I thought we paid a piece because we issued earlier than we anticipated.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:51 - 1:44:51)
We issued it.

[Speaker 6] (1:44:51 - 1:44:52)
In March. Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:53 - 1:44:55)
March of 2022. Right.

[Speaker 6] (1:44:56 - 1:44:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:56 - 1:45:07)
So we're not paying until March of 2020. Oh we did the issue in March 2022. Is that long ago.

OK. So we used a million dollars of stabilization funds already.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:08 - 1:45:08)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:45:08 - 1:45:10)
That's what that was used for basically.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:11 - 1:45:12)
So that original model.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:13 - 1:45:14)
So that's a change right there.

[Speaker 3] (1:45:14 - 1:45:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:15 - 1:45:20)
Yeah. But the way we locked in probably save this million dollars or something like that. Take 20.

[Speaker 3] (1:45:22 - 1:45:47)
If we issued 30 year debt today we would definitely be at 4 percent. And then the market's good today compared to the last five months, three months, four months ago. It's come down.

Sovereign. I mean what you call it. Silicon Valley Bank has helped lower rates than any market.

What's the balance in the stabilization fund now?

[Speaker 1] (1:45:47 - 1:45:56)
It's currently seven million sixty nine thousand. But that does not include the transfer of a million dollars because it doesn't get posted till the money's actually moved.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:57 - 1:46:02)
But is that true? I thought we were saying this might be a form of us on this. I think there is.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:02 - 1:46:03)
Yeah. It looks like it is.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:04 - 1:46:09)
Because if we would show five million six seventy of it. I think.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:09 - 1:46:14)
Yeah. Can I ask you a question about the increase in the debt service?

[Speaker 4] (1:46:16 - 1:46:16)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:18 - 1:46:34)
So it went up by percentage. And I know last year we did. So is it.

It's part of that. What went up. The capital projects that we approved last time.

I mean last year.

[Speaker 4] (1:46:35 - 1:47:05)
Yes. So. I can tell you.

The second line on the top of your sheet there the five forty three seven eighty. A. Large portion of that is associated with the land acquisition of which if you recall was.

Eight million eight seventy five. And that was issued in a short term note. So a large portion of that makes up that number as well as previously approved capital.

That was financed.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:07 - 1:47:31)
And so when when we work with the capital improvements committee to set. The budget for capital. Do we give them essentially how much.

Would stay within the financial guidelines of two percent plus new growth. Yes. So essentially what we're over here.

Is that mostly related to the land acquisition.

[Speaker 4] (1:47:38 - 1:47:51)
It's a combination of all the projects and the timing. So I wouldn't say it's just the land acquisition land acquisition acquisition is the largest project that was financed in the last year but there are other projects that. Needed to be financed as well.

[Speaker 13] (1:47:52 - 1:47:52)
But what was your original question.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:53 - 1:47:56)
Are we asking the CIC to live within the two point.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:56 - 1:48:02)
Yeah. That's. I am assuming we're asking the CIC.

To two percent plus.

[Speaker 2] (1:48:02 - 1:48:15)
I wouldn't assume that because it's too they're talking about capital things that could cost millions of dollars we're going to spread over years and they're not saying how much the cost in debt service. That based on doing the math of how he's going to finance it.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:15 - 1:48:26)
Yeah. That guidance is overall for the budget that service is one piece so it could go up. More than that if we're not in a different area of the budget.

You know what I mean.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:26 - 1:49:10)
So when we advise when we advise the capital improvement. Many. Patrick goes through and projects the debt and figures out.

An estimate of. How much debt. We can have.

Her. Policy and guidelines. Based off the level of our general fund.

And projects that that way to determine. The cap on dollar wise how much we can have for projects. So we start moving projects out further meeting with department heads to move that.

That what's presented to CIC is all within the debt policy. But no it's not necessarily. That.

An interest. Payments. Are limited to two point six percent of the budget.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:10 - 1:49:24)
I mean when we approve. When town meeting approves the capital improvements. Expenditures.

They're essentially then. Affecting next year's. Budget.

Approving more.

[Speaker 9] (1:49:24 - 1:49:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:25 - 1:49:34)
And so the trade off is do we do. One project. And, you know, if you approve this project this year.

We're going to have to cut something else from the operating budget.

[Speaker 3] (1:49:35 - 1:49:53)
It pretty much affects two years because the town has a habit of Issuing short term notes where they don't even pay principal for the first year. They typically would issue note for a year and then bond it. And you don't really know when they authorize it, whether or not it's going to go for five years or 10 years or 15 years or how it's going to get structured.

So you really don't know.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:53 - 1:49:53)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:49:54 - 1:49:56)
How it's going to pay. You know, True.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:56 - 1:50:11)
I think that's what I'm trying to say is we have a different way to get a capital budget put together. And clearly they do a multi-year. You can kind of see that's why they push things out.

It's not really in any way backing into what the debt service might be as a percent of the budget.

[Speaker 5] (1:50:11 - 1:50:30)
Correct. But then, I mean, you know, like in years like this where we have a really tight budget, you look at this, you know, like, oh, how do we know? Right.

We had pushed off. You know, X thousands of dollars of this project for one year, then we would have more flexibility operating budget.

[Speaker 3] (1:50:30 - 1:50:59)
Well, what they can do is just not, they can authorize it and just not issue it. Once it's authorized, it doesn't mean it's costing anything to put it on the books. So you authorize it and you can figure out when you want to sell it.

And you can roll notes for three years without paying down any principle. You can roll them for 10 years if you're in a bad market. So I think that it's, it's more complicated than just saying, we could authorize a hundred million dollars this year and not issue it for 10 years.

I mean, so you can't, it's not going to just impact the following year.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:59 - 1:51:24)
Yeah. Just under this point, there are a few tools in the treasurer's toolbox as to what type of debt to issue when it's issued. And we don't issue until the products are actually underway.

So yeah, if everything just started tanking and we were in a really bad position, we could go and like pause those projects and have them not start yet to be able to not have to borrow that.

[Speaker 2] (1:51:26 - 1:51:54)
All right. I'm thinking maybe it's five minutes and nine. So maybe we can pause here.

We're not done with that. I don't think I think we need that. Sorry, Patrick, we probably need to digest and continue to talk, but if we just can talk real quickly, like schedule wise.

So we have a meeting on the calendar for Wednesday. That's virtual, not in person. Can everybody make that or generally speaking?

No. Okay. We got a quorum at least.

Hopefully generally people can make it.

[Speaker 8] (1:51:54 - 1:51:55)
I thought. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:51:56 - 1:52:01)
Okay. It sounds like we have, we'll still have plenty to get a quorum though.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:04 - 1:52:09)
by a show of hands, do we have five people that are coming on Wednesday? Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:10 - 1:52:25)
So we'll start with that service. We'll try to get through what I keep not enterprise. Right.

I mean, if people have other questions from the earlier part of the budget, we can certainly go back to them. Things we kind of left as yellow. Maybe I don't think there was a lot.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:26 - 1:52:42)
There wasn't, I went back up through it and. I feel like most of the yellow were things that were generally pending, like the insurance that we're still shopping. And the Lynn dispatch.

Contract that is still being negotiated as well.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:43 - 1:53:01)
So, I mean, I hate to say this out loud, but I kind of feel like we're don't say, I know, right. There's not a lot of complications so far. It's.

But, and, but, and there's not really, I don't think I asked this question for like, what about, are there any complicated warrant articles? I don't remember you saying that there was much that was.

[Speaker 1] (1:53:01 - 1:53:33)
So. We. The select board hasn't opened the warrant yet, but we did start piecing together.

Like standard articles. So we are going to have bills for prior fiscal year. We are obviously going to have the budget.

I believe we are aiming to have the water and sewer retained earnings. On annual town meeting, because we're trying to get. Water and sewer rates set before they actually go into effect this year.

[Speaker 7] (1:53:33 - 1:53:34)
Good idea.

[Speaker 1] (1:53:34 - 1:55:05)
I know. We're. Really.

We'll obviously have the capital article. We are going to. Most likely have an article on.

The. Superintendent. The town administrator, myself and the finance director for the school.

Have been talking about coming up with a policy to establish a special education reserve fund. Which would be adopted under chapter 40, section 13 E. So we've been working on a policy.

I circulated a draft for that today that myself and Cheryl worked on earlier. So that there would be two articles for that one to adopt. The reserve fund.

Under that. Statute. And then the second one to.

Transfer money from free cash into it. And. We will have the last.

Needed article on that transportation infrastructure network fund. The Uber and Lyft. Monies that we get every year.

But they did pass legislation that if you receive. Those monies. Less than.

A really high threshold that we don't hit, you no longer need to appropriate those monies. So this will be the last time that will be on the warrant. But yes, as of right now, I would say that.

Reserve fund is the only. New thing that is in the standard.

[Speaker 3] (1:55:07 - 1:55:11)
Is there a capital. Authorization article.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:11 - 1:55:19)
Yep. So we'll have the regular chapter 90 appropriation and then the regular capital article. Are both anticipated.

[Speaker 3] (1:55:19 - 1:55:22)
Something besides chapter 90. Anything besides chapter 90.

[Speaker 11] (1:55:24 - 1:55:25)
Like the regular capital.

[Speaker 3] (1:55:26 - 1:55:28)
But. Like is there any bonding.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:31 - 1:55:33)
No. We just approve the capital article. Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:34 - 1:55:34)
As part of the.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:34 - 1:55:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:35 - 1:55:37)
The capital plan, but nothing outside of that.

[Speaker 3] (1:55:37 - 1:55:40)
Oh, how much is the capital? That's been.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:40 - 1:55:43)
The CIC hasn't. Done that yet. So.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:44 - 1:55:50)
They still haven't done. I thought, wait a minute. I thought we.

You guys shared out a. One drive and that's all.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:50 - 1:55:51)
Yes, they haven't.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:51 - 1:55:52)
Haven't voted.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:54 - 1:55:54)
They will.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:55 - 1:55:57)
Shortly. And so the last thing they voted was.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:57 - 1:55:57)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:57 - 1:55:58)
I mean, Matt.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:58 - 1:56:05)
It's always the third Monday in May. Right. They haven't met since the fall.

Nope. Why not? It'll liaison.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:05 - 1:56:06)
Come on.

[Speaker 10] (1:56:08 - 1:56:10)
I just keep asking. Did you forget to invite me?

[Speaker 3] (1:56:12 - 1:56:21)
Can we get the copies of the warrant articles? Sooner than later. Even if they're blank.

Just because it's hard to. Commit to memory. Everything was.

That was. She just said.

[Speaker 14] (1:56:22 - 1:56:23)
Let's ask her. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure.

[Speaker 3] (1:56:23 - 1:56:24)
They're not even. Considered yet.

[Speaker 14] (1:56:25 - 1:56:25)
But yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:56:28 - 1:56:30)
Instead of getting. Oh, no.

[Speaker 13] (1:56:30 - 1:56:36)
I know. Yeah. So.

Good.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:37 - 1:56:43)
Oh. One of the select board meetings. I heard there was something about like a.

Pine street. Acquisition.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:44 - 1:56:48)
That would be done. That would be done through the use of ARPA funds.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:48 - 1:56:51)
So it's not. Part of our vote.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:52 - 1:56:56)
Hmm. So we don't have to vote on it. The state is going to pay for it.

[Speaker 10] (1:56:57 - 1:56:58)
It will come up.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:58 - 1:57:02)
Town money. And the town. Can just.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:03 - 1:57:09)
Just. Do you think. Is the.

Is the town. Administration. Going to.

Speak to what it's doing with all the ARPA funds.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:10 - 1:57:12)
That's it. I believe so.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:13 - 1:57:18)
That would be nice. I mean, even if we don't have to vote on it. It'd be nice to know what's being done with it.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:18 - 1:57:27)
Yeah. So the select board is voting on. All of this.

Appropriations from it. So that's just been. On pause right now.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:28 - 1:57:29)
So when is that happening?

[Speaker 7] (1:57:29 - 1:57:30)
It was like four minutes.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:30 - 1:57:31)
Before town meeting.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:31 - 1:57:36)
I don't believe they're going to. I don't know if they're going to do the pine street. Before town meeting.

But.

[Speaker 7] (1:57:38 - 1:57:41)
We got like 4 million. In ARPA funds.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:41 - 1:57:44)
We got 4.5. Dollars is being spent around town.

[Speaker 7] (1:57:45 - 1:57:46)
It. They haven't.

[Speaker 6] (1:57:46 - 1:57:49)
They haven't really spent any. Right. Except for the bonuses.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:49 - 1:58:05)
No. So the only. Yeah.

Yeah. The monies that have been spent from ARPA. There was a.

Small. An extremely small amount. And by that, I mean, less than a hundred dollars.

That was used for the. The. Call system for.

[Speaker 11] (1:58:06 - 1:58:08)
Contact. Briefing. There was.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:08 - 1:58:22)
And then it was. Yeah. There was.

I want to say $20,000. For one. Sewer.

Project that we had to do. And the bulk of it where it's the one time. Compensation that was part of.

Collective bargaining and.

[Speaker 3] (1:58:22 - 1:58:26)
All of that. Do they have till the end of 24? Is that.

To spend.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:26 - 1:58:40)
We have until December 30th. 2024. To.

Expend all the money. I did speak with our auditors. There's a tiny bit of leeway that.

If we appropriate it for a project. And we were about 90% complete. As of that date, we'd still be in compliance.

But.

[Speaker 3] (1:58:41 - 1:58:43)
But you actually have to have spent it.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:44 - 1:58:46)
So. You spent the majority of it by then. Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:58:47 - 1:58:50)
So is there a running list of what's being considered?

[Speaker 1] (1:58:50 - 1:59:02)
We have. List of what departments had to put forward as requests. But there has not been the overall discussion.

With the board on evaluating those requests yet.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:03 - 1:59:23)
Okay. Let's. Let's move on.

Just wrap up here. So. I just wanna get you guys thoughts about.

Obviously, CIC is still kind of an open thing. Because they haven't met. So we can't really meet with them.

Is there any. Is it worthwhile for us to talk to Patrick or you. And have a.

So we can just walk through the proposed articles. Even without CIC. Is that.

[Speaker 10] (1:59:23 - 1:59:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:23 - 2:00:05)
Be a good use of our time. The other question. I think I put this in an email.

It's like. So this year. We didn't talk to any.

Department heads really. Aside from the school. So.

In the past, we have. We've typically had maybe police and fire. Or sometimes Gino.

So I just want to put that to the group. Do we feel that. You know.

We should talk to the two chiefs. And ask them about. You know.

Things they're trying to do to mitigate overtime costs. There's a lot of new. You know.

With the changes in the CBA. And the minimum manning. And that kind of stuff.

All right. So maybe I can try to. See if we can get them to both.

Just join. Maybe next Monday's. You know.

Virtual meeting. And they can just pop on. And you know.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:05 - 2:00:12)
I'd like to have Gino too. I think he's pretty. You know.

He's got a big. Big command. Big responsibility for us.

[Speaker 7] (2:00:12 - 2:00:22)
Next Monday the third. If it's possible to avoid. Big important people on.

Wednesday the fifth. That would be helpful. It's the first night of Passover.

[Speaker 2] (2:00:22 - 2:00:26)
Okay. Yeah. Wednesday seems to be tough.

For people in general. That's why I was saying Monday for that.

[Speaker 7] (2:00:26 - 2:00:27)
Yeah. Monday is much better. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:00:27 - 2:01:01)
Okay. So then. I'll see if I can pull it together for the third.

This week. Tomorrow. Day after tomorrow.

We'll meet again. And kind of go through the enterprise funds. And more debt service.

And anything else we can come up with there. The following. We need to save time somewhere in there for CIC.

Once they're done. Maybe that's the week of the 10th. Because then we'll have another week.

Until the letter is due on the 17th. And then we'll stick to that letter. That schedule.

[Speaker 7] (2:01:03 - 2:01:11)
We should probably meet with them. Whether they're done or not. They can just tell us where they're at.

Like otherwise. It just gets later and later.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:11 - 2:01:14)
And we don't know what we need. That's true.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:14 - 2:01:18)
You might want to do a letter for the 18th. Because the 17th really is a holiday.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:18 - 2:01:27)
No. I agree. Yeah.

I'm not. I agree. It's whatever.

It's the next day. We'll send it. Once Amy comes into the office on Tuesday morning.

That's going to be hard for us to meet. I think. That letter date.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:28 - 2:01:32)
If you want to reach out to CIC. Ryan Hale is the new chair.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:33 - 2:01:39)
Who is he? Okay. So.

Ryan Hale. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:39 - 2:01:40)
That name sounds familiar.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:40 - 2:01:41)
He's a member.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:41 - 2:01:42)
He's been a member.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:42 - 2:01:43)
Of CIC for a long time.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:43 - 2:01:47)
I believe he presented the capital article. At last special as well.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:48 - 2:02:01)
So maybe. Just to keep with that. So I'll try to get.

Police, fire and Gino. For the third. Which is a week from today.

We'll try to get CIC for the 10th. Guys. Are you listening?

[Speaker 7] (2:02:01 - 2:02:03)
Oh. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:08 - 2:02:10)
We have one at Town Hall. I know.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:11 - 2:02:12)
Glenn has one.

[Speaker 9] (2:02:12 - 2:02:13)
Wednesday is teams.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:13 - 2:02:14)
Monday is also teams.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:15 - 2:02:16)
Right now. Everything's teams.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:16 - 2:02:18)
Everything. Right now. Everything's virtual.

Except for today.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:19 - 2:02:25)
So we'll do next. So this week. We just talked about.

We're going to do Wednesday. Next. On the third.

If I can get. Fire, police and Gino.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:26 - 2:02:28)
Do you want us to coordinate that? Or do you want to reach out to him?

[Speaker 2] (2:02:29 - 2:02:30)
I'll reach out to him.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:30 - 2:02:30)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:30 - 2:03:03)
Thank you. And we'll do CIC on the 10th. I'll reach out to Ryan.

We have the fifth. I know it's a. That's a path of Passover day.

But if. It's kind of out there. In case we can get a quorum.

This thing still to be talked about it. Just kind of see where we are. If it's.

If we're in crisis mode or not. I don't think we will be. But.

Does anybody have any. Thoughts of volunteering to. Do letter work.

I mean, I'm happy to be involved with that myself. I don't necessarily want to. Write it myself.

So. Just put that on the table. If people feel they're.

Good wordsmiths. Or one of these contribute.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:04 - 2:03:06)
Maybe we could come up with some ideas for you.

[Speaker 2] (2:03:07 - 2:03:07)
That'd be a draft.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:08 - 2:03:13)
Yes. Exactly. I'm happy to write.

I'm happy to write. But would love bullets.

[Speaker 2] (2:03:13 - 2:03:25)
Okay. That's great. So let's maybe.

Maybe next on Wednesday. We can. Wednesday or Monday.

Wherever we are. If we start thinking about bullets. Awesome.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:27 - 2:03:43)
Just because I can't remember. If. You were chair.

For our last town meeting. We have a prep meeting. Before town meeting.

With. Town council. The moderator.

Town clerk. And stuff. So the chair of finance committee.

[Speaker 10] (2:03:44 - 2:03:46)
When is that? A rando.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:46 - 2:03:48)
Okay. Date that will be circulated.

[Speaker 10] (2:03:48 - 2:03:48)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:49 - 2:03:56)
Mike. McClung normally. I just wanted to.

Give you a heads up. Because I know you actually have. A job in a life.

But.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:57 - 2:03:59)
Did you not do that last year?

[Speaker 2] (2:03:59 - 2:04:01)
No, I wasn't sure. Last year was still.

[Speaker 3] (2:04:01 - 2:04:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:02 - 2:04:03)
Special time.

[Speaker 11] (2:04:03 - 2:04:05)
Special. I was. Yeah.

Yeah. I went to some.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:05 - 2:04:15)
Meeting. I sat in the back row. And the.

Select board was there. Maybe that was the equivalent. Of that.

Some different. Okay. All right.

Anything else?

[Speaker 1] (2:04:17 - 2:04:20)
Just a reminder. Annual town meeting is Monday. May 15th.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:20 - 2:04:21)
Okay. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:21 - 2:04:23)
Hopefully. Just that night.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:24 - 2:04:25)
Just that night.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:25 - 2:04:33)
Hopefully just a one night event. I always hope that it's just a one night event. It is booked for multiple nights.

Just in case.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:34 - 2:04:36)
All right. Thank you. Motion to adjourn.

[Speaker 10] (2:04:36 - 2:04:37)
So moved.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:39 - 2:04:41)
All those. All the papers say, hi. We can just do it this way.

[Speaker 14] (2:04:43 - 2:04:44)
All right. Thanks, everybody.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:09 - 2:05:10)
Bye. Bye.