[Speaker 1] (0:51 - 2:16)
Ladies and gentlemen, as I see various members of the Finance Committee making their way through the auditorium, I expect that we will begin in 60 seconds tonight. Gracie, can you confirm that we're live on the PEG broadcast? Thank you.

Quick shout out to Joe Dulette and all of his team with the PEG cable team, bringing this home to folks. Having been informed by the town clerk that we have a quorum present, as well as having a quorum of the Finance Committee present, I do call this annual town meeting to order. Welcome.

Before we begin, I am going to have everyone newly elected please rise so the town clerk may swear you in. This includes those who were, anybody who was added by virtue of being the next highest vote getter for vacancies that did occur.

[Speaker 25] (2:39 - 2:55)
By my election as town meeting member, in the town of Swampscar, according to the laws of the Commonwealth, and the bylaws of the town of Swampscar, thank you very much.

[Speaker 1] (2:59 - 6:01)
Thank you very much, and thank you for your willingness to serve the role you play as an important one. Welcome to this, the 172nd annual town meeting, our 96th as an elected representative town meeting. You are taking part in one of the most directly democratic processes on this planet.

The history of town meeting came to these shores with the first European colonial visitors as they held a town meeting aboard the Mayflower, bringing with them this tradition from their home in England. I would like to say a couple of things about the way we'll proceed tonight, then we have a few initial matters, some speakers, and we'll get into the articles before us. First off, I would like to call Mr. Dulette back from the control room when he's ready so that he can be on hand to instruct people about the proper use of the microphone. You will understand that there are folks watching at home, and they need to be able to hear what you're saying, so we're going to ask that everybody do use a microphone and use it to the best of your ability, which Mr. Dulette will demonstrate shortly. In the meantime, I do want to say, in the words of one of my predecessors, that full and fair debate is not the same thing as endless debate. Our charter and bylaws allow any speaker to rise twice on a matter and speak for a total of 10 minutes.

Any of you willing to do the math on the number of articles we have and the number of members we have will soon find out that we will be here until September if everyone takes all that time. So I'm reminded of a quote variously attributed to Mark Twain, to Cicero, to Samuel Johnson, I'm sorry I wrote such a long letter, I did not have time to write a short one. Consequently, it's okay if the person before you has made the point you're about to make.

You can absolutely get up and say, I echo the previous speaker's sentiment, I believe we should vote yes or no on whatever the item is. I also would point out, I ask all of you to observe rules of decorum. Please don't attack a fellow speaker, a fellow member in town meeting, please don't attack any of the officials up here.

I'm sure I don't have to remind you of that but I thought it would be fair to point it out. This is also not a cross-examination, this is not a trial, this is not a courtroom, this is a parliamentary procedure. I ask you to direct all your comments through me, the chair.

If there are questions, I will do my best to recognize the person best positioned to answer your question. If I have Mr. Gillette, now follows Microphone Technique 101, so drop the mic. Do that at the end of your speech, not at the beginning.

[Speaker 16] (6:02 - 6:13)
It's important, if you have something very important to say that you want to be close to the mic so people can hear you, when you step up to the mic, just give Gracie a second to unmute your mic.

[Speaker 2] (6:14 - 6:34)
And if you are far away from the mic, Gracie has to increase the volume which increases all that feedback that we don't want to hear. So if you're standing at any of these mics, this includes the panelists at the front here, you want to be about two inches away from the microphone and we can hear you crystal clear and everything sounds good, and that should do it. All right, have a good show tonight.

[Speaker 1] (6:34 - 8:10)
Thank you, Mr. Gillette, and thanks for all you and your team do. So if you do wish to be recognized to speak, simply raise your hand. I will do my best to recognize all town meeting members and any residents that are in attendance who wish to speak.

I will try to recognize elected town meeting members first. Voting tonight will be done by a show of hands. I'll ask the yeas to raise their hands, the noes to raise their hands.

If I cannot determine by a show of hands, I may elect to call for a standing vote, in which case I will ask six tellers to come down and ask the yeas to rise and have them count them, then the noes to rise have them count them, and the clerk will tabulate the results and we will announce the results. If one of you feels as though the outcome as I've announced it is not accurate, you would like to force a standing vote. If seven of you rise immediately and ask for a standing vote, we will follow the same procedure.

Similarly, we have a procedure for a roll call vote, which requires 30 of you to rise immediately after I declare it to require the town clerk to read every member's name and record a yes or a no. With that, I think we are ready to move into some of our initial presentations, and it's my great pleasure to recognize our representative in the general court, Ms. Jenny Armini, the Honorable Ms. Armini, if you would like to have a word.

[Speaker 12] (8:17 - 11:38)
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Thank you so much for allowing me to join you.

Congratulations to all the Newtown meeting members. It is a singular privilege to represent your neighbors in making decisions as a community, for the community. And special congratulations to Swampscott Select Board's acting chairman, David Grishman, and to its newest member, Doug Thompson.

I was able to get to know Doug during a little race we had last year, and I'm certain he will be a sharp, discerning voice on the board. As I said when I was here in December, we're all legislators, the town warrant being akin to a House budget bill with many outside sections added. In fact, I recently went through my first House budget process.

You've probably heard many times that budgets are moral documents as much as fiscal ones. The choices we make reflect priorities. Those priorities reflect values.

I'm happy to report that the House budget and tax package, while certainly imperfect, makes progress in advancing the state's priorities in key areas, like helping seniors stay in their homes, boosting rental assistance, supporting families by increasing the child-dependent tax credit, feeding students by making the school meal program a permanent part of a public education, greening our schools with clean energy infrastructure, and so much more. But unlike town meeting, where you have the final say this evening and maybe tomorrow evening, the budget has to get through the Senate, where we are fortunate to have Senator Brendan Creighton there advocating for us. Then the House and Senate will produce a bill that hopefully our terrific new governor will sign by June 30th.

The democratic process is not meant to be easy or neat. If it were, we would be doing it wrong. It's in discussions, and yes, even disagreements, that we find the commonalities that allow us to craft compromise.

What I've noticed in my first months on the job is that Swanscot has a unique, forward-looking spirit. You've made some bold moves. You're playing the long game with impressive generational investments.

Swanscot is audacious. That's one of my favorite words from the years I spent as a speechwriter. It's also part of the title of one of former President Obama's books, The Audacity of Hope.

In it, he acknowledges the skepticism in politics, but he chooses to focus instead on what binds us. That's the audacious part. What binds us together is greater than what drives us apart, he wrote.

If enough people believe in the truth of that proposition and act on it, we might get something meaningful done. Members of town meeting, I know that's exactly what you'll do this evening, and I wish you all the best. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (11:48 - 13:05)
I'd like now to take a moment of silence and remember those who served the town who have passed on since the last time we gathered. I'd also like to take a moment with your indulgence to say a personal word, not to denigrate any of the other names of the people on this list, but to remember Paul Levinson, who, in addition to serving on the Conservation Commission, serving nine years as a select person, including chair for a number of years, plus 50 years in this body. He's also a ñ he was a personal friend that I first met when I was 13 with my good friend, Mark Whiskey-Wilensky, and his ñ Mr. Levinson's son, Warren, as we set up to make a great racket in his garage on guitars and drums. He will be missed, and I thank you for indulging me. Now I believe, Mr. Blonder, you have a brief announcement.

[Speaker 6] (13:18 - 14:32)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Jeffrey Blonder, town meeting member, precinct 2, also commander of the E.F. Gilmore DAV. I just want to announce that the DAV this year is offering two $1,000 scholarships to Swampscott residents.

If high school seniors are ñ if you're in school right now, you can apply for the scholarship. The two scholarships are for a student whose family member ñ it could be any family member, and they would be eligible for the scholarship if they're a disabled member of the DAV. And the second scholarships are for anyone that has volunteered for veterans in the past year or so.

There's applications up in the hallway. The deadline is May 31st, and there is an essay requirement. And last ñ this is our second year.

Last year, we ñ it's for Swampscott and Lynn residents. Last year, we awarded two scholarships to Lynn residents and none to Swampscott because we didn't get any applicants. So we're trying to outreach a little more this year.

Hopefully, we'll get some applicants from Swampscott. This is part of the DAV's community involvement. So thank you.

[Speaker 1] (14:33 - 14:46)
Thank you, Mr. Blonder. Ms. Cameron, I think we have a ñ would not be a complete town meeting without hearing from Janelle Cameron.

[Speaker 17] (14:59 - 17:32)
Where's Joe? I don't want to mess it up. Janelle Cameron, town meeting member, Precinct 3, Recreation Board member, Farmers Market Committee member, 4th of July and Strawberry Festival chair.

And I'm very sad to say that I can't say I'm the Hadley School administrative assistant. I retired last year, and I'm really bad at it. Okay.

So the Farmers Market opens on the second Sunday in June. It's June 11th this year. We have a lot of returning and new vendors.

It's a town hall from 11 to 1 on Sundays, and Swampscottfarmersmarket.org if you're interested. The 4th of July and Strawberry Festival is on June 25th this year. And we're still ñ I still have to confirm everything with the temple, so you'll see more information coming.

But Jackie Camerlingo said she'll put it on the Recreation's website and on the Facebook page in case anyone new is interested in joining us. And the Recreation Commission has a lot of new board members, and we're very excited. David is our select board liaison now who has lots of great ideas.

So Danielle wanted me to read these to you. And I talk fast, so this won't take long. Saturday, June 3rd, is the Pride Celebration.

It's a 5K race at 4 from 4 to 7, celebrating on town hall lawn. There's a beer garden from Granite Coast, food truck speakers, flag raising, and more. On Saturday, the 10th is the Harbor and Marine Festival.

That's with the Swampscott Yacht Club. Food and drinks, it's 12 for 5 at Fisherman's Beach, and there'll be boat dealers and demos in the kids' area and much more. And Sunday, the 11th, is Farmers' Market Opening Day.

And on Thursday, June 15th, is our Juneteenth Celebration from 3 to 5 on town hall lawn with food and speakers and flag raising, face painting, and much more. And then Sunday, the 25th, is the Strawberry Festival and 4th of July Parade. Monday, the 3rd, is the Fireworks Festival.

And this is going to be another beer garden and concert. And there is a $5 admission charge because it's a veterans' fundraiser. So it's a fundraiser for the veterans.

It doesn't go to recreation, and that's what it is on the 3rd. And then the concert series starts on Wednesday, the 12th. And there was a nice handout that Danielle gave you when you're coming in that has all the dates together.

So thank you for your attention. Hope you can join us.

[Speaker 1] (17:34 - 17:43)
Thank you, Ms. Cameron. And now, I believe, Nancy Schultz, you have something to share with us?

[Speaker 5] (17:53 - 26:56)
Greetings, esteemed town meeting members. My name is Nancy Schultz, town meeting member, Precinct 3, and chair of the Swampscott Historical Commission. I come before you tonight, representing the commission, to ask for your partnership in preserving a truly significant historical town asset, the General John Glover House at 299 Salem Street, Swampscott.

Next slide, please. The 800-square-foot building and its L of a similar size both date to before 1750. After the John Humphrey House at 99 Paradise Road, this may be among the oldest houses in Swampscott, and likely the only site in town with deep ties to the American Revolution.

Long considered a blighted property, the entire site was scheduled for demolition this coming August to clear the way for a 140-unit residential development, the Glover Residences at Vinnon Square. Beginning in fall 2022, the commission, in accordance with its bylaws, began investigating the historical significance of the site. Everyone told us that the 25-plus years of neglect had rendered the building unsalvageable.

The commission sought a second opinion. With the fortuitous award of a $6,100 grant from the Massachusetts Cultural Council and the additional commitment of nearly half of the commission's annual budget, we hired our own structural engineers from Structures North in Salem and preservation architect Rick Detwiller. These consultants found that buried within a tangle of ramshackle surrounding buildings, Glover's original 18th-century house is relatively intact and can be saved.

On April 20, 2023, the commission unanimously voted that this property be preferably preserved. We imposed a nine-month demolition delay, thereby halting completion of the sale between the developer, Leggett McCall, and the Athanas family. The commission has since partnered with the Swampscott Historical Society and the Marblehead Glover Regiment, some of whom have joined us tonight, to begin the crucial work of preserving the house.

I will not be rehearsing the well-known stories of General John Glover's heroics, including ferrying George Washington and 2,400 troops across an ice-choked Delaware River to defeat the Hessians in Trenton, New Jersey, on Christmas 1776. I will present a timeline that shows how we came to the point we are now, with a doomsday clock ticking away the hours until January 20, 2024, when the demolition delay expires and the Glover house can be demolished. Next slide, please.

This slide gives a brief overview of the history of the property during the Revolutionary War era. Next slide, please. Here we see a comparison of the building during the 1930s and today.

Next slide, please. The Athanas era has lasted for 66 years, 25 or more of which the house has been totally abandoned and neglected. Next slide, please.

It has not even been a year since the 40R zoning overlay was approved by last year's town meeting. Next slide, please. There are many reasons to preserve the Glover house, including its clear eligibility for National Historic Register status.

Next slide, please. The red outlines on this slide show the relatively small portion of the building that should be preserved. Next slide, please.

In an August 9th, 2020 article, 2022 article by Chris Olson in the Marblehead Current, William Gause, Leggett McCall's executive vice president and partner, states that the former restaurant building, quote, is falling in on itself. The report we received from Structures North, however, asserts that the building can be preserved. Next slide, please.

Here are some photos from our preservation architect showing some of the original details of the Glover house, including a beehive oven on the right. Next slide, please. The magnificent 18th century fireplaces and other features remain intact.

Next slide, please. This photo shows the original paneling over the fireplace and some of the original beams. Next slide, please.

I hope you will join with Marblehead's General Glover Regiment, the Swampscot Historical Society, and the Historical Commission to save this iconic house. This is Swampscot's connection to the Revolutionary War. The Glover house is a tangible representation of the stories, struggles, and triumphs of the people who came before us.

By preserving the house, we preserve a piece of our collective memory, opening a window into the lives and experiences of those who shaped Swampscot into the community we know today. Preserving this house will deepen our sense of place. But most importantly, preserving the Glover house is an investment in our future, ensuring that the coming generations will have the opportunity to learn, appreciate, and be inspired by the history that surrounds them.

As the United States prepares for the 250th anniversary of the American Revolution in 2026, there could be no more compelling Rev. 250 project than this one. Next slide, please. I truly believe that with the strong partnerships now being built with our surrounding communities and by centering this project within the many American Revolution commemorations about to unfold, together, we can halt the ticking of the Glover doomsday clock.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (27:07 - 27:27)
Thank you, Ms. Schultz and your color guard. Those of you who didn't have a chance to see the Glover regiment, they are in attendance this evening. Thank you.

Mr. Hale, I believe, has a brief comment.

[Speaker 23] (27:32 - 29:13)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. I'm Ryan Hale, Town Meeting Member in Precinct 2, Capital Improvement Committee Chair, and right now speaking to you as a member of the Renewable Energy Committee with a very short announcement. Two things you can do to reduce the cost of heating and cooling your home.

Number one, you probably saw Julie, one of our awesome partners from Peregrine Energy, making sure that everyone is getting the best electric rate that SwampScout has negotiated for you. Make sure you're still opted into the program. Deepest of ironies, I actually got kicked out of the program, and we've gone through a process to get re-enrolled, and we're going to be refunded by National Grid more than $5,000 that they overcharged us for electricity over the past couple years.

It's almost real money, so I encourage all of you guys to check your power bill, make sure you're enrolled in SwampScout Community Choice. If you get anything in the mail that doesn't have the town seal on it, it's a scam, so please ignore it. The second announcement is that we have another partnership with a company called Revise that will give you a free home energy assessment and make a donation to the town of SwampScout when you do that.

To date, we've completed over 100 of those home energy assessments, so thank you to everyone who's done that. We've got a check from Revise for more than $3,500 that we can use to advance our renewable energy goals in town, so the program's still active. If you haven't done that already, please visit CallRevise.com, and that's another program that is officially sponsored by the town of SwampScout. So just wanted to make sure everyone here is taking advantage of those programs that the town has entered into to help you all save money on heating and cooling your home. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1] (29:13 - 29:21)
Thank you, Mr. Hale. I'd like to recognize Superintendent Angela Acas. She has a brief presentation.

[Speaker 27] (29:33 - 30:56)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Good evening, everyone. I'm actually here tonight with an invitation for this coming Wednesday night from 6 to 8.

In late winter, Rabbi Rogozin's connected the school district with Evan Levitt, the vice president of special projects and planned giving for Southern National Conference of Synagogue Youth, and more specifically, where their Hate Ends Now tour. Through the generous financial contributions and efforts of Alan Bolotin, we've been able to bring this experience to our high school students this week during Jewish American Heritage Month. If you parked around back this evening, you might have noticed something unusual parked in our lot.

More than a mobile museum, it's an immersive multimedia experience inside an exact replica of the World War II cattle car that was used to transport Jews to concentration camps. This on-site field trip will enable our students to empathize with the stories of suffering during the Holocaust, connect history to current prejudices, and infuse a sense of responsibility to fight and end anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry and hatred. This Wednesday evening from 6 to 8, this mobile exhibit is open to our community and to all of you, and I invite you all to attend.

I'd like to share a brief video of this experience as it tours the country.

[Speaker 1] (31:48 - 34:05)
Stand by. We are ever so indebted to the school department for letting us use this space. I think a little bit of patience is...

So I guess I will circulate the link to the video to town meeting members for your viewing pleasure at home.

[Speaker 27] (34:05 - 34:08)
I don't want to hold you all up. You have a lot of business tonight.

[Speaker 1] (34:15 - 36:42)
I'll make sure you get the details by email tomorrow. I have one final thing before we begin the official portion of our evening. One of my unofficial tasks is to recognize folks in town who have made a major contribution to the history of our proceedings, of taking care of the future of Swampscott, and this evening I have such an individual I'd like to recognize.

It was my pleasure to work with him for a number of years. He has been a town meeting member for more than a decade. He has spent nearly a decade on the finance committee and served as chair for four years.

Speaking as someone who served for seven years and chaired it for three, I don't know how he did it. But we're all indebted to the hard work that he's done. There is nobody who understands our collective bargaining contracts better than he does, as he proved at the financial summit where he gave a master class on understanding the contract terms.

I hope you all will join me in recognizing Tim Dorsey as this year's Civic Achievement. Now, if you'll remain standing, all of those who feel obliged to pledge allegiance to our flag, please join me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

That brings us to the beginning of our warrant articles. Those of you who have received my emails and picked up the white handout marked Consent Agenda should be fully briefed on what we're about to do with the Consent Agenda, but I want to make sure anyone who doesn't have the white Consent Agenda handout has a chance to go and get one. In order to adopt the Consent Agenda, I need a motion from the floor.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Speaker 22] (36:49 - 37:21)
Thanks, Mr. Moderator. Adrian Rodriguez, Finance Committee Meeting Member, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 5. The Finance Committee recommends that Articles 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, and 22 be considered together as Consent Agenda articles, where such articles are routine and typically approved without significant debate or are largely administrative, ministerial in nature, and further, that said, articles be moved as they appear in the printed warrant.

I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (37:21 - 38:06)
Is there a second? Okay, so the way this works is if anybody wants to pull one of these articles off of the Consent Agenda and debate it in its normal course, now is your time to rise and say, I want to take Article 7 off the Consent Agenda. Failing that, we'll take a simple majority vote on Mr. Rodriguez's motion to adopt the Consent Agenda, which includes Articles 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, and 22 as printed in the warrant. All those in favor, please raise your hand. All those opposed? It is unanimous.

Moving on to Article 2, Approving the Climate Action Resilience Plan. Mr. Thompson.

[Speaker 2] (38:17 - 38:39)
Good evening. Doug Thompson, Select Board Member, Town Meeting Member, Climate Action Plan Committee Member, Precinct 5. I'm here to introduce Article 2, Approval of the Climate Action Resilience Plan.

The Select Board recommends that the Town vote to authorize the Select Board to adopt a Climate Action Resilience Plan substantially in the form included in Appendix B.

[Speaker 18] (38:41 - 38:43)
I move the recommendation of the Select Board.

[Speaker 1] (38:43 - 38:52)
Is there a second? Mr. Thompson, I believe you may have some experts who are going to give a brief presentation. Is that correct?

[Speaker 18] (38:52 - 38:52)
Yes.

[Speaker 32] (38:53 - 38:58)
I'm honored to introduce Martha Schmidt, the Chair of the Climate Action Plan Committee.

[Speaker 2] (38:59 - 39:03)
And Sam Snikofsky will also be joining her.

[Speaker 1] (39:09 - 39:11)
Thank you. Please proceed, ma'am.

[Speaker 11] (39:17 - 39:18)
Can we get the presentation up, please?

[Speaker 1] (39:20 - 39:21)
It is in front.

[Speaker 11] (39:33 - 43:30)
Thank you. Next slide. So just to give some background on this Climate Action Plan, back in 2021, the Renewable Energy Committee completed a greenhouse gas inventory.

The results were presented to the Select Board in October of 2021 with a recommendation that we form a coalition to work on a Climate Action Plan. The coalition started meeting in January 2022, and a resolution to create the plan was unanimously approved at last year's Town Meeting last May. We applied for a planning grant and used the funding to hire a consultant, Kim Lundgren Associates, that had extensive experience creating plans for other communities, not just in Massachusetts, but across the U.S. And we worked hard with them to engage various town stakeholders in the process of creating a plan. And we did complete the plan in time for this year's Town Meeting, as we promised. So the plan is tailored to our town, and we hope that we receive endorsement from all of you tonight. Next slide.

Our formal committee was created by the Select Board last December, and we have 10 members. All of these members have been really dedicated, meeting on an accelerated schedule twice a month, and I'd like everybody that's here today to stand so we can acknowledge your efforts. It's been a great team effort and really devoted members who made sure that the whole community and the priorities of the community was reflected in the plan.

Next slide. So this illustrates how SWAMSCOT contributes to climate change. So around 60% of emissions in SWAMSCOT are due to buildings, and about 35% is coming from vehicles or transportation.

Next slide. So what do we do about this? So there are two main ways to address climate change.

One of these is to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and the other is to adapt to the impacts of climate change, such as what do we do about sea level rise, and what do we do about the storms that we see that are coming more furiously and frequently, all the flooding that you see. So our climate action plan is called Resilient SWAMSCOT, and it's basically a framework to make our community more resilient while also reducing emissions over time. Next slide.

So our plan is broken into five key focus areas. You see them here, buildings and energy, transportation, resilience, natural resources, solid waste. And basically our goals, strategies, and actions are kind of lumped into these five different areas.

Next slide. So we work pretty hard to involve community members, key committees, and key leads from the town in providing input to the plan over time, and we do believe that we have strong endorsement from key committees in town. So I'd like to also introduce Sam Snitkowski.

He's one of our committee members and also a high school student. Next slide.

[Speaker 1] (43:30 - 43:34)
Thank you, Martha. Mr. Snitkowski.

[Speaker 37] (43:41 - 44:44)
So hi, everyone. I'm Sam Snitkowski. I'm the student vice president of SWAMSCOT High School and also president of our environmental club.

A year ago, I spoke at town meeting to support passage of the resolution that made our committee possible. And for the past year, I've been able to help the Climate Action Plan Committee develop our plan, Resilient SWAMSCOT, by being a sworn in committee member. I'm here now to ask you to vote to pass this framework for future climate action.

Despite the IRA, federal climate action is not doing enough to help solve this urgent climate crisis. And even in Massachusetts, we're only just now considering spending just 1% of the state budget on climate action. It's up to local communities to take action and face this crisis head on, and as a coastal community, SWAMSCOT is uniquely at risk.

At the same time, we're a community willing to come together to preserve our town, uniquely positioning us to be leaders in this fight. I'm 16, and I've been a resident here nearly all my life. And so I'm personally asking that as fellow residents wanting to keep SWAMSCOT intact for future generations, you vote in favor of passing our climate action framework, Resilient SWAMSCOT.

[Speaker 1] (44:44 - 45:26)
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tarkovsky. Thank you very much.

Now on to Mr. Thompson's initial motion. Is there discussion? Are there questions?

Seeing none, all those in favor of Mr. Thompson's motion, please signify by raising your hand. All those opposed? It carries unanimously.

Moving on to Article 3, Approving Bills of Prior Fiscal Years. Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 2] (45:30 - 45:56)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Good evening, everybody. Eric Hartman, Precinct 1 Town Meeting Member and Chair of the Finance Committee.

The Finance Committee recommends the town vote to authorize payment of bills of prior fiscal years totaling $4,974.72, as detailed in the printed warrant, and is funding, therefore, to transfer a set amount from free cash. I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (45:56 - 45:58)
Is there a second? Thank you. Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 2] (46:00 - 46:17)
This article is fairly routine. Just invoices that came in from the previous fiscal year came after we closed the books. The largest one had to do with, you might recall, a new outboard motor that we had to buy for the fire department boat, I believe, and there was a late invoice related to that purchase.

[Speaker 1] (46:20 - 46:48)
Thank you. Is there any further discussion on these bills from prior fiscal years? I note that by statute this requires a four-fifths vote because we are appropriating money for prior years.

With that in mind, all those in favor, please raise your hand. All those opposed. It is unanimous.

Moving on to Article 4, the Operating Budget. Mr. Hartman. Thank you, Mr. Moderator.

[Speaker 2] (46:50 - 47:52)
I move the adoption of each separate numbered line item as printed in the column entitled Finance Committee Recommended FY24 as found in the printed warrant. I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee and further that the sum of $79,343,099 be raised and appropriated as follows. Raise and appropriate from taxes and other local receipts and state aid $69,598,035, not including state assessments and offsets of $1,916,900 that do not require appropriation.

Sewer rates $3,023,685. Water rates $4,430,592. Public education and governmental cable TV access funds $184,997.

Solid waste funds $188,890. I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (47:53 - 48:29)
Is there a second? Thank you. Mr. Hartman, I just want to address the body briefly and let them know how we are going to proceed through this. Each individual numbered line item represents an individual article. We are considering them together, almost like their own consent agenda. But that means I will work through page by page and ask for comments on the lines on that page.

I believe when we get to Mr. Hartman, you'll have to remind me which is the first line item you'll be moving to switch funds from.

[Speaker 2] (48:29 - 48:32)
It's the diversity coordinator.

[Speaker 1] (48:33 - 49:21)
So when we get there, there will be a floor motion from the Finance Committee to modify some of the individual amounts. But for instance, I would start out by asking you, is there any comment on page three, beginning with the town moderator and proceeding through administration and finance, the first portion? Any questions or comments on items on that page?

Moving on to page four with accounting, the rest of it, assessing the treasurer and customer service lines. Very good. Page five.

Mr. Moderator.

[Speaker 2] (49:21 - 49:27)
Yes, sir. I'm concerned of the order here. I thought we had a presentation and that would happen before your listing of the budget.

[Speaker 1] (49:28 - 49:32)
If you would like to call for that, I'm happy to. That's what I was intending.

[Speaker 2] (49:35 - 49:39)
That's what I was intending or expecting. If that's not how we've done in the past, I'm okay.

[Speaker 1] (49:40 - 49:44)
No, that's fine. I think we might have had something come in on a thumb drive. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (49:47 - 49:52)
As you will. The floor is yours. I need the presentation.

But thank you.

[Speaker 1] (49:53 - 49:57)
Sorry for that. I thought your letter was so eloquent, nobody needed further explanation.

[Speaker 2] (49:57 - 1:09:10)
I will be brief. Okay. Thank you very much.

Again, Eric Hartman, Chair of the Finance Committee, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 1. So before we engage in what I'm sure you guys are all looking forward to, the riveting page-by-page turning of the Town's operating budget, I just wanted to cover briefly a few principles on how the budget comes together, what the process is. And I was informed we have about 40 new Town Meeting Members this year, so for some of this, this will be new.

And others, just bear with me. It's probably things you've heard before. But on the other hand, you probably only think about it about once a year when we get together as this body.

So for starters, when we start preparing the annual operating budget, we're trying to keep a lot of things in mind, right? We need to think about the Town's needs from an operating perspective. We're trying to limit the growth of the tax levy that we all pay through our real estate taxes.

We're trying to keep monies available to protect and maintain the Town's assets. But we're also trying to keep a fiscal responsibility and not just spend without any kind of limits. So for the last several years, the Town has operated under a policy where we attempt to limit the growth in the tax levy to a 2% annual increase plus an estimated new growth amount of $425,000.

Those numbers are below what Prop 2.5 would otherwise limit us to do. And we've been doing this for several years now, and it's proven to be a solid strategy that does, in fact, make us look more closely at what we're spending our dollars on in an attempt to limit the growth in taxes, which we've experienced over several of the last years. So this approach, it also helps us increase our reserve funds over time.

And it's also led to an untaxed levy amount, so an unused levy capacity that has grown over the last several years. So what this means is that if we choose not to increase the tax levy all the way up to the 2.5% that the statute would allow, we can essentially put that unused levy capacity aside for the time being and effectively save it for another time if we need it. I'm not recommending that, but I think the Town just should be aware.

It's approximately, as of the end of fiscal year 23, the estimate is about $8.9 million in unused levy capacity. So the Finance Committee supports to continue to use this process of 2% plus new growth, and that we should continue to live within these fiscal constraints. But we are concerned that, you know, given the economic conditions that the whole nation is facing, with high inflation and just, you know, this overall economic situation, the tight labor market, we're concerned that whether or not we can continue to provide the services that the Town expects and needs within the limitations of this policy.

So, again, we're not making a recommendation for a change, but we just felt it was necessary as we went through the review process this year. Oftentimes we hear people asking, even at FinCom or Finance Committee meetings, you know, should we just tax a little bit more if there's something that we're cutting out of the budget, or should we just continue to live within this lower than what the regulations would allow us to tax? So, again, no recommendation there, but just a comment that I felt I needed to say as that topic came up quite a bit throughout this process.

Okay, so what this slide is showing is a lot of what I just said. You can see the chart is showing the growth in our general fund expenses over the years. You can see last year we had a larger increase than normal, largely because we started to pay some of the debt service on the new school.

So that was talked about in details at Town meeting. As I said, we're living with this 2% plus new growth methodology. The Town Administrator and their teams request that when budgets are prepared each year, not only do they try to live within that guidance, but that they also take advantage of zero-based budgeting techniques, which means they don't just add 2 plus percent to what they spent last year.

They think about their entire budget and what they maybe need for this year that perhaps they didn't in the year before. So as I said, that last paragraph just really effectively restates what I said before, that we're committed to staying within this policy, but it's something that we're a little bit concerned on if the economic conditions stay the way they've been for the last year or so. So if we go to the next slide, please.

So the budget that's presented before you, as I said, does live within that limitation. And just to give a little bit of context on what that half of percent means, right, so we're going to talk about 2% instead of 2.5, it's about $288,000. So that's what we're leaving on the table.

Plus, we really could probably increase the $425,000 estimate based on more recent numbers. But just from a ballpark perspective, that's what we're talking about. So if we start talking about the major components of the budget, first let's talk about the school budget.

The school department has been facing challenges for the last several years, especially, you know, as they kind of went into the pandemic and now are trying to live in kind of a post-pandemic world. We've heard a lot about the changes in the needs of the students as well as the way they deliver their services to the students. And the other thing to point out too is going to be a common theme in this discussion is that a lot of the costs of the school department are dictated through previously negotiated collective bargaining agreements, right, the union contracts.

So we can't, when we come to the floor of town meeting to talk about the annual budget, a lot of those costs and a lot of other costs within the town are already effectively decided based on those contracts. So this year, the school has an increase in appropriations of 2.6% over last year. But in addition, you'll see a separate article, article number five, where we're proposing a one-time use of free cash to create a special education stabilization fund.

This would be $310,000, and this is really in response to something that has been challenging for the school over the last several years, which is the volatility, I'll say, of the out-of-district special education placement costs that are not something we spend. We have to spend those dollars to send students elsewhere. And so working with the town administrator and the school superintendent and the school department worked on figuring out a way to get through this year's budget.

I'll call it a crisis because it was a bit of a crisis. And so we're asking you to approve that request in article five to create the stabilization fund to help smooth out when we have peaks and valleys in some of those costs that will continue into the future. The remainder of the general operating fund budget is increasing by about 3.4%. And I just want to point out, too, just when we talk about that 2%-plus new growth, that's the increase in the expenditures, but we need to keep in mind that there's other revenue sources that the town has, whether it's local receipts, excise taxes, speeding tickets, all those different things that come into the town coffers. So those monies make the percentage a little bit higher than what you'd otherwise expect to see.

But approximately 79% of the general fund budget is made up of what I'll call personnel and benefit costs, which, as I said before, are largely already determined but through collective bargaining agreements. On the non-personnel side of the budget, there are five specific line items that make up 80% of that component of the budget. So if we talk about the first one, debt service.

So debt service is probably the one that's the most within the town's control, right? Because we use debt service as what we pay to service our debt, so it's principal and interest for all the debt that the town has signed up for. And, you know, we use this to fund capital projects, to fund the new school that we're building, to fund acquisitions of land or whatever other large, longer-term projects the town deems necessary.

But we also have a capital budget. So this is the one we talk about every single year, and we're going to talk about it this year in Article 16. And with the capital budget, the Finance Committee and the Capital Improvements Committee work together to attempt to fund a plan that meets the long-term and short-term needs of the town and really is trying to be more long-term focused.

Because we have a lot of large expenses that are kind of looming on the horizon for the town. And our ability to look into the future and see those items is really helpful for the Finance Committee and for the CIC when we're trying to make decisions on what should we approve each year. So I'll say that while this is an area that the town has improved on significantly, the town finance staff has made great strides in, I would say, the overall quality of the financial information that we receive.

But this is still an area that needs significant improvement. And I think Ryan Hale, the chair of the CIC, is also going to make some comments on this. But the development of a longer-term plan that doesn't just go out three or four or maybe five years, but goes out 10 years, 20 years, perhaps longer, even though it's difficult to forecast that far into the future, there are some major things that we know.

And there are methods that we can apply to say we know how long things last, we know when they might need to be replaced. And to be honest, we found ourselves this year kind of struggling with the information that was in that capital plan because some of them, even the most recent or the next year, the year after, the year after that, where you would expect things would obviously be needed to be spent, things like sewer replacements, things that happen on a fairly routine basis were not included. So as I said, there has been a lot of improvement in this, but I just wanted to point out that would continue to help the town if we could improve our reporting on that and our forecasting.

And just to kind of emphasize that point, most of the members of the finance committee were late to the start of town meeting today because we were in a six o'clock joint finance committee and CIC meeting that happened here at the high school to finalize some of the components of the capital budget. So that's not a place we want to be in. We don't want to be waiting, looking at the clock saying we have to get downstairs to the auditorium when we're trying to make decisions and get information.

So I think I've maybe said enough about that. I think the point is made that we're all going to work together to improve our ability to look at these things in the years coming. All right, so a few other things I just wanted to point out about this year's budget process.

First of all, we had a bit of what I'll call an accounting schedule anomaly this year, where for some reason there is an extra week of payroll in FY24, just the way the payroll periods are scheduled. So it doesn't sound like a big deal, but it's about $164,000 of additional cost that we wouldn't normally have. So again, it happens every number of years, so we have to kind of absorb that in the FY24 budget.

If you think about just, again, in context, that $288,000, which related to the half a percent, you know, I know we didn't tax that, but $164,000 just disappeared from this little accounting anomaly, so it matters. Amy and the finance team have a strategy to make that problem go away in the future, so it should be the only time we have to deal with that. Health insurance costs.

This is not breaking news by any means. I'm sure everybody feels the pinch of the cost of health care going up, you know, in your personal lives or in your business lives. Our health care line is going up about 7% in fiscal 23, sorry, in over fiscal 23, so obviously another line item that limits to 2% plus new growth.

The math doesn't work. The town has an unfunded pension liability that town meeting members, some must be aware of but others need to be aware of. It currently sits at about $37 million, so this is a liability that we have to retired employees that we have not fully funded yet.

We're on a schedule to fund it by 2031, but again, this is a large expense for the town, so we're expecting that amount to go up about 5% a year until we're fully funded in 2031, and that's $6.2 million of this year's operating budget. So again, another line item that cannot be limited by this 2% plus new growth. We also have an unfunded pension liability which, I'm sorry, not pension but other post-employment benefits, so after you retire, the cost of benefits for our retirees.

This is a much larger number, closer to $100 million currently. So we don't really have a specific plan, or we're not executing a specific plan on how to fund this. We have, over the years, put away about $3.3, $3.4 million into a trust fund, and the intent is once we fully fund the pension liability, we'll turn our attention to the OPEB liability. One of the reasons for that is there isn't a state mandate to pay the way there is for the pension liability. But that's something that's out there in the future. It's disappointing that the current generation of taxpayers has to pay for some of the prior items that weren't paid for, and also that we're kind of looking forward to when the pension liability goes away in 2031 and we're fully funded to have kind of a windfall for the town, but some portion of that we'll have to start earmarking for OPEB in all likelihood.

Okay. Why don't we go to the reserve side if we could, the next slide? So as town meeting members know, the town has several stabilization fund reserves.

These reserves are funded and then the dollars used through articles that are voted through town meeting. So sometimes we have extra money or we find ways to come up with money and we increase our reserves. That's something that gets voted by town meeting, oftentimes in the fall town meeting when we're talking about tax rates.

And then any decision to use those reserves also comes through town meeting. So the funds can be used to do a lot of different things. They can help stabilize the operating budget in case of a rainy day or some kind of economic downturn or reduction in state aid, for example, or if we have some unexpected expenditure or catastrophe that the town has to pay for that we can't fit within our typical operating budget, the reserves could be used.

But they can also be used to help us with some of the larger investments that we make. So they can be strategically used to help offset the debt service, for example, on the new elementary school or on the land acquisition, things like that, that we come to town meeting and say, okay, we want to do something but think it's a good idea for the town. It's going to cost a lot of money.

How can we, you know, dampen the impact on the tax levy? So that's really one of the main reasons that we have the reserve. So this year there are actually no articles to fund or use any reserves with the exception of free cash, but not in the stabilization accounts.

And both of our largest funds, our general and capital stabilization, are currently sitting at about $6.3 and $1.4 million. We have suggested ranges, just like our policy of 2% plus new growth. We set out some ranges of, you know, 9 to 10% for general and 2 to 4% for capital.

Both of those, as you can see, are currently sitting at the bottom end of that range. Part of that reason is we started using some of those reserve funds last year when we had the first debt service come on for the new school. So it was planned and expected and is it a use, not an unexpected use of those reserve funds.

I mentioned that we also have $3.4 million sitting in the OPEB Trust. You know, just a drop in the bucket versus the $100 million liability. We have another $500,000 between our water and sewer stabilization funds.

And we also have retained earnings balances within the water and sewer enterprise accounts. And we really use these to control increases in water and sewer rates, which is what, there's an article you'll see tonight that we already approved actually on the consent agenda to do just that. So while these reserves are not intended to be used indiscriminately, they are in place to give the town flexibility to both react and respond to unexpected revenue shortfalls as well as give us the flexibility to help finance some larger investments or big projects for the town.

But it would not be surprising to see some of these reserves drop below our recommended levels given the debt service that we've already agreed to with some of those larger projects. If you could advance to the next slide, please. So one of our other reserves is our free cash balance.

So free cash was certified as of July 1st, 2022 at about $3.6 million. As I mentioned a minute ago, we did decide to use some of this free cash to reduce the tax rate. And we also create, last town meeting we created a compensated balances account for $150,000 and also used it to help fund some of the collective bargaining expenses we had.

So this year, as you can see, the next line there, bills of prior years we just approved. And there's the $310,000 use of free cash that I just mentioned for the special education fund that we're proposing. So again, this brings us down a little bit below where we'd like to be.

So we're below our 3% range at 2.65. But we're getting towards the end of the year. We don't have this year's free cash certified yet. We won't know that number typically until the fall.

So we're hoping that that will be able to kind of put some dollars back there and restore that. All right, so those are really what I wanted to talk about. I mean, I just, again, a lot of new faces around, a lot of people who haven't necessarily heard all of this.

I will just kind of, on my own, just say that I do feel that the town is in very good shape financially. And I'll give credit to the town finance staff, the town administrator, the select board for the actions and the finance committee to help put us in the place that we are. And I look forward to questions on this year's operating budget.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:11 - 1:09:57)
Thank you, Mr. Hartman. And again, my apologies. This was well worth the wait.

So now, as I said, we are voting on the budget in a single vote, but you are actually voting every bolded line item as its individual article. We do have some changes coming up with an amendment from the finance committee. So what I'm going to do is move forward through the first few pages where there are no effects from that amendment.

And again, I am given to understand that we have another presentation.

[Speaker 10] (1:09:58 - 1:15:19)
It's just a continuation of the same presentation. I will try to go very fast so that we can get to the line item votes. Some of the key financial planning issues that we had in developing the FY24 budget was the rising inflation and supply costs, continuing to budget for uncertain times with a potential recession looming, continued efforts to fill some key positions within the town, as well as our continued facilities and capital needs.

This is just an overview of our FY24 expenditure budget, the $79,343,099. The largest portion of the budget is the public schools. That's also just because we have the general fund broken out into multi-segments.

And you'll see the second largest is the employee benefits that Eric spoke to a few moments ago. I'm just going to go through very quickly. I will not read these slides to you.

The administration and finance department has a decrease of $28,000 or just under 1% under last year's budget. This reduction is mostly due to the salary reserve. As you remember last year at town meeting, we had a lot more money in salary reserve because we're in the process of still bargaining a couple collective bargaining agreements.

Those have been settled. We therefore don't need that level of reserve for this year. We have continued increases in our technology budget, as well as increase in property and casualty insurance with the acquisition of the Hawthorne property.

Community economic development is up by 2%. The biggest change in this is the change in the senior planner to an assistant director of community development so that we can attract a high-quality candidate for that. The public services department is down 1.78%, and this is partially due to facilities staffing being outsourced because of the specialty needs. We've been unable to fill that position, but we can fill it with consulting, as well as decreases in public works due to long-term employee retirements and hiring in newer people who thus do not cost as much. The enterprise funds have a decrease of almost $350,000. A lot of that is through the consumption reductions, as well as the rate increases in no longer in Article 7 and 8 because it was voted as the consent agenda.

The public safety is up 4.33%. We have created a new deputy chief... Thank you. We've created a new deputy chief physician in the police department for FY24.

We've also created an administrative assistant for the fire department for FY24, as well as increased investments in our LHIN dispatch partnership. Human resources is up 2.27%. We have additional funding in the veteran agent services to provide more support and resources. This is also a regionalization effort with LHIN, and the proposed library budget includes an increase to the NOBLE network, as well as shifts to the physician, but no overall change to the staffing levels.

The Swampskate public schools is up 2.6%. There is additional funding in the nonresident tuition revolving fund that was established in FY21. We also saw this year a decrease in our regional vocational school due to a net decrease in students enrolled there. So that was a great plus for the budget.

Our local aid, we have reviewed forecasts, projected those, but we currently have the most recent numbers. We have a decrease in local receipts of about 9%. As you'll remember, at special town meeting in the fall, we had increased those estimates based off actuals with the reduction in the borrowing that we had from the new school debt.

That money is going down. The principal's going down, so our investment income in turn is coming down, which is the interest that we receive on the money in those accounts. We do review these month to month, and we'll have an updated forecast for the fall 2023 tax classification.

Net local aid from the governor's proposed budget was an increase of 6.5% over last year and a net increase of 312,000. This was a 10% increase to Chapter 70 aid and a 26.9% decrease to charter school reimbursement. We also, on the assessment side, saw an almost 54% increase to charter school assessment.

These are costs that are assessed on us, and we have no control over those. This is a high-level overview of the proposed estimated revenue. I won't bother reading it to you, but these are just the different categories.

The bulk of the revenue that supports our operating budget is from the tax levy. And I will turn it over to the town administrator.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:22 - 1:15:31)
Thank you. For those who haven't yet met Ms. Serro, Amy Serro is the director of finance and administration for the town. Thank you, Amy.

Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:36 - 1:20:33)
So I want to thank Amy. I want to thank members of Swampskate's finance committee and town meeting members. In particular, I want to thank the department heads for being here.

This is a budget that does reflect our values as a community. Swampskate has worked hard over the last few years to really set a bold agenda. We're balancing our budget.

It's been a comprehensive year of tax classification. Last fall, we used a portion of our reserves to try to continue to keep Swampskate affordable. We know that we have to continue to focus on growing our way out of some of the budget problems.

We've spent years cutting our way out of a lot of the inefficiencies, but the inefficiencies are now marbleized, and it's harder to get those real savings. We're looking at, you know, other ways to support Swampskate. We're using ARPA, American Recovery Grants, in a very strategic way.

We want sustainable development, and I know that a lot of folks are concerned about how we're seeing projects move forward in Swampskate. But it really is a focus on balance. When we talk about our capital improvement plan, the town has a charter that calls for a five-year vision.

We know that we need a 30-year vision. We need to see life cycles of facilities, not once, but twice, maybe two-and-a-half times. We have a really talented capital improvement committee.

They're planning for that future. We're looking at ways that we can really support all of the priorities that we have. We know our seniors are getting older, and they're living longer, and they need more support.

We need to more than double our senior center budget. We've done that already over the last three years, but we did that by tightening up our budget, but we've got to see growth in our commercial tax base. Everybody that has lived in this town has watched businesses disappear on Humphrey Street.

You've seen your community just continue to struggle with economic development. We've seen businesses close after one or two years. We've got to figure out how to be more supportive for our budget.

When we look at rising costs, we know that this is going to continue to place pressure on all of our priorities. We've got to figure out how to prepare for that future. We've got to think about strategies that keep Swampskate's taxes stable.

We've looked at other communities. We know that we're doing something different in Swampskate. We're having tougher, harder conversations.

I do want to just recognize our financials have been supported by government finance officers' certification for excellence. If you have a copy of the town report, you can see decades' worth of expenditures, actual expenditures in every single category. You get a lot of information about how we're tightening up our budget.

We do have a lot of conversations. The work that we do together between town and school to think about ways to create a stabilization fund for special education students. Those needs are real, and we have to think about ways that we balance the need for those services with our ability to keep Swampskate affordable.

We're doing that with this year's budget. Certainly really proud of the work that town staff have put together. This is just kind of a highlight.

This is where we were from 2007 to 2015, just dramatically increasing the taxes on residents. During this time, we saw an average increase of $716. You come down here the last seven years, we have kept things steady.

But what's going on here? We've gone up significantly. Why?

Because we built, we're building a consolidated new elementary school, and that debt service is going to put additional pressure on all these other priorities that we have. We have to think about ways that we grow our way out of this problem. I do want to just highlight, if you look at the average over the last seven years, it's $90.

That really is the remarkable work of your finance committee, your capital improvement committee, your select board, really looking at contracts and trying to find a way to balance all of these priorities. Swampskate is doing that, but it's difficult. But we're making progress.

I don't want you to be frustrated about the fact that things are getting more expensive. We're finding more creative ways to meet those challenges, but it's difficult. And with that, I will turn it back to the moderator for questions.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:33 - 1:20:44)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. Just checking. Was there anything else?

[Speaker 2] (1:20:45 - 1:20:48)
I know you want to avoid that third night, Mike.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:48 - 1:23:07)
I really do. That's where I'm all about. All right, so what I'd like to do, because I know we have some amendments that are coming up starting on page 5, is see if we can move through pages 3 and 4.

And again, we are talking about the bolded line items. The other line items, the sub-items are given for your information, but what you're voting on is the bolded line item. So again, page 3, the moderator.

Sorry, I'm moving back to where I was. Any comments? Page 4.

Okay, as we move on to page 5. Oop. Okay.

Bigger hand wave. Sorry, Mr. Barden. Barden, precinct 3.

I would just like to ask a question on line item 10 for the audit. $70,000. I wonder if you can give me some explanation on what that is.

The town-wide audit? Yes. We have our books.

The accounting audit. Yep. We pay an outside auditor to audit our books.

If you saw on the slide moments ago, you saw that there were zero comments from the auditor on the 2022 audit. It's a fascinating, although long, document, and I urge anyone to dig into the details in our town's financial audit. Other questions on 3 and 4?

All right. Now, the results of a conversation that was had just before this meeting is going to result in a voice amendment that I have in writing, but you do not have in front of you, so I'm going to ask Mr. Hartman to move the amendment to a number of line items, beginning with one on page 5, actually two on page 5. So please follow along, and then I'll ask Mr. Hartman, we'll get a second, and we'll ask Mr. Hartman to talk to the nature of this amendment. Okay. Please, Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:07 - 1:23:08)
So you want me to, I'm going to read the motion here?

[Speaker 1] (1:23:10 - 1:23:11)
Yes, please.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:15 - 1:23:42)
Amy's going to make sure I don't mess it up. Okay. All right.

I move the town vote to increase budget line item number 17, 0115202, by $80,000, and reduce as follows. Deputy, 021, sorry, 0121001-5101X, Deputy Chief of the Police, by $10,000, reduction.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:43 - 1:23:47)
That's, if I can jump in, that is number 41 found on page 9.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:47 - 1:23:48)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:52 - 1:23:55)
Deputy Chief of the Police, reduced by $10,000.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:57 - 1:24:10)
So the next line is probably in the next section because it's fire, so it's 0122001-51040, Fitness Incentive Fire, reduced by $15,000.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:10 - 1:24:26)
That's number 46 found on page 11. Reduced by $15,000 to zero. Reduced by $15,000.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:26 - 1:24:40)
Then we have 0191402-57050, which is Employee Group Health, reduced by $29,000.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:40 - 1:24:46)
That's number 59 on page 13, Group Health, reduced by $29,000.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:53 - 1:25:02)
Okay. Then we have 0115203-51000, Salary Reserve, reduced by $20,000.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:03 - 1:25:07)
Line 18 on page 5, reduced by $20,000.

[Speaker 2] (1:25:13 - 1:25:29)
Reduced by $20,000 to zero. Then we have 0115202-52112, Diversity Coordinator, reduced by $6,000.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:29 - 1:26:04)
Also on page 5, number 16, the Diversity Coordinator, reduced by $6,000. So the net effect of everything done here is to leave the bottom line numbers unchanged. There is an increase in the line 17 to $80,000.

There are decreases in lines 16, 18, 41, 46, 59, as enumerated, that equals that $80,000. Now, is there a second to Mr. Hartman's amendment? Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:04 - 1:26:58)
So the town has been talking about having a diversity, a DE&I coordinator for a number of years. So far has really been unable to get that accomplished. This came up, I think, late in the town meeting process, or the budget review process and discussions this year.

There had been a different strategy, but through discussions with the select board, the Finance Committee, and the town administrator, the decision was to fund an $80,000 consultant that would be a consulting position, so not a full-time position per se, for the first year. This consultant would help us, you know, evaluate our needs, begin the process, and I think as well develop a job description for ultimately a full-time role, which we would hire, you know, probably in the next year's fiscal budget, not this year's. So this is for an $80,000 consultant position for DE&I.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:59 - 1:27:07)
Thank you, Mr. Hartman. Discussion on the amendment to the various lines we've just enumerated. Mr. Norton.

[Speaker 30] (1:27:22 - 1:27:46)
Ken Norton, Precinct 3. Just for clarity, we're jumping around in the book, and if we could go page by page and then review the item you want discussed. Also, the select board, we all have a pamphlet that was given out with a discrepancy on that.

Just clarification on that. I don't know if the select board could speak, or is this on your motion?

[Speaker 1] (1:27:46 - 1:28:20)
So I think it's germane to hear from the select board on this motion to amend. I would prefer to see if we can adopt or turn down the amendment, but I'm happy to go over the individual line items, the total $80,000. I realize it's a lot of jumping around, and it is just the nature of some late-changing information.

So, Mr. Hartman, with your indulgence, could I ask a member of the select board to speak? Mr. Spellios.

[Speaker 7] (1:28:30 - 1:29:18)
Good evening. Peter Spellios, member of the select board, town meeting, member of Precinct 3. The select board support this motion and appreciate the Finance Committee's similar support of this motion here.

By putting these funds in, we will be reconfirming our commitment to continue dialogues that began several years ago and continue through COVID, but, frankly, have not continued far enough. By putting this in this budget, as opposed to using one-time funds, we're showing an ongoing commitment to DE&I. The concern that the select board had was, by using one-time funds, we would be bringing into question whether or not we had an ongoing commitment, an ongoing need.

The vote of the select board overwhelmingly to support this amendment and the ongoing need in future years. So, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:19 - 1:31:03)
Thank you, Mr. Spellios. I'm also given to understand that you have a gray handout that can be used to follow along with this, with the following changes. So this is a summary of the changes that we just discussed as it existed prior to 7 o'clock tonight.

And now you and I, we are all going to create the version we just heard by making two simple changes. Well, three simple changes. If you are looking at the front of the paper where lines 16, 17, 18 are included, line 16 is reduced by $100,000, and that is to be found in the diversity coordinator director line, while the expense subtotal 17 increases by $80,000.

That would make the two lines 16 equal to 180155, and the line 17 equal to 134875. And then you can strike out the entire section regarding snow and ice. Hopefully that is a start to get us there.

With that said, is there further discussion on Mr. Hartman's amendment to create an $80,000 contract diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant role based on the reductions from the enumerated line items? Mr. Moderator?

[Speaker 2] (1:31:03 - 1:31:08)
Just for clarity, I don't have that sheet. You have the snow and ice budget remained at $20,000, correct?

[Speaker 1] (1:31:09 - 1:31:10)
That's correct. No change.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:10 - 1:31:11)
No change. Okay, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:11 - 1:31:26)
Thank you. So this showed the changes? Yes, I thank you, Ms. Sarrow, for providing that. That's more detail than I thought we would have. Yes, please, commentary in the back. Ms. Vasilio, I think.

[Speaker 39] (1:31:30 - 1:32:02)
Snow Precinct 5. This position, the amounts have changed so drastically in such a short time frame, and it's gone from, I think, $6,000 to $100,000 to $80,000, and I think FinCom at one point was recommending $30,000. So it's all over the place.

Have we actually reached out to any diversity and inclusion coordinators to get actual costs or estimates on what this will cost us, or are we just throwing money out there?

[Speaker 1] (1:32:04 - 1:32:12)
Thank you, Ms. Vasilio. Thank you. Mr. Hartman, if you have a comment on that, or I can hand it off to the town administrator.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:12 - 1:32:13)
I would hand it off, please.

[Speaker 1] (1:32:14 - 1:32:15)
Mr. Fitzgerald.

[Speaker 3] (1:32:29 - 1:33:07)
Sorry, does that work? So the town has worked with the Mass Municipal Association, and we've reached out. I personally have talked to a number of DE&I directors in the Commonwealth, and we've spent a considerable amount of time really looking at communities that have put consultancies together to really evaluate all of the important areas that we need support with, and so I think we're in a very good position, really appreciate the Select Board and the Finance Committee moving forward with the $80,000 here. I think it puts Swampskate in a very strong position to start to address some incredibly important issues.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:08 - 1:33:22)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. Excuse me. Excuse me.

Ms. Vasilio, would you like to be recognized again? Please, Ms. Vasilio, use the microphone because no one can hear you.

[Speaker 39] (1:33:22 - 1:33:39)
It's just a follow-up. So based on your conversations and on those different levels of cost, what level of service would we get at each level? What would be actually appropriate for our town?

The number's just been all over the place, so I'm trying to understand what we'd actually be getting.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:39 - 1:33:53)
Thank you, Ms. Vasilio. To the extent that you are able to, Mr. Fitzgerald, can you articulate what level of services you believe you can achieve with the numbers that were agreed to this evening by the Select Board, the Finance Committee, et cetera?

[Speaker 3] (1:33:54 - 1:34:43)
So I think the most important thing to understand is that we're going to hire a consultancy or a firm that will help us really understand what that position salary and scope of work and priority should be. I can certainly tell you that I've looked at some salaries of DE&I directors that range from 80 to 130. It's generally in that area, but we're working in a time where a lot of changes are happening in employment areas, and so moving forward right now with a consultant will really help us frame this next step, I think, in the best way for the town.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:43 - 1:34:50)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. Other comments on Mr. Hartman's? Yes, sir, in the back.

I believe that might be Mr. Peleria.

[Speaker 35] (1:34:53 - 1:35:24)
Six. Here we go. Say again.

Tom Peleria, Precinct 6. First off, wanting to know why this amendment is being made so last minute. Why wasn't this in the materials before?

It seems like a lot of changes for something that Mr. Spellios explained had been something that had been desired by the town for so long. Separately, I'd like more detail on the level of service we'll receive from that consultancy. Is that a project basis?

Is that a percentage of resources? What actually are we getting from that consultancy for that money? Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:25 - 1:36:12)
Thank you, Mr. Peleria. I think we've explored the nature of the types of services. I can tell you from personal experience that amendments on the floor are available to any member, in particular when we can find two boards that are working together to come up with an agreement that they've compromised on to make the most sense from the finance committee's point of view, the select board's point of view.

I don't care if it's a last-minute amendment. I would rather have that kind of cooperation and coordination between the boards to come up with the best solution for the town. That said, Mr. Peleria is seeking additional detail on the nature of the services that could be provided. Mr. Fitzgerald, if you have anything that you haven't added already, please do so now. Hang on. It's coming.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:12 - 1:37:07)
I do think that the ñ sorry. I know I have to adjust the volume of my voice. I do think it's important to understand that it's not just the town organization that really needs a conversation.

It's the entire town, and so when we hire a consultant, they're going to look at all aspects of a community's support for diversity, equity, and inclusion and really help us broaden that dialogue so we can all see where are the barriers, where are the structural issues with equality and fairness. Are they just in hiring or are they in the way we zone certain neighborhoods? Are they in the way we support decisions when it comes to public housing or all these other facets of how a community addresses these very real issues?

[Speaker 1] (1:37:09 - 1:37:13)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. If it's a brief follow-up, certainly.

[Speaker 35] (1:37:13 - 1:37:29)
I'll take my ten minutes if I need to. Just wondering, is that a fixed fee engagement with a fixed outcome? Is this a project-based engagement with the consultants, or are we buying a certain percentage of FTEs, full-time employees, and contracting on that basis?

That hasn't been answered yet.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:30 - 1:37:38)
Before you answer, please let's hear the questions you have, and I'll make sure that they get answered. Is there anything else, Mr. Polaria?

[Speaker 35] (1:37:40 - 1:37:42)
Just what I just asked that hasn't been answered yet.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:43 - 1:37:47)
Certainly. Do you have in mind a particular contract structure at this time about how you would compensate this person?

[Speaker 35] (1:37:48 - 1:37:49)
I don't.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:49 - 1:38:10)
I think what likely will happen is I'll work with the select board, and we will work with a few individuals that have some experience, and we'll come up with either an RFP or some type of proposal that will allow us to evaluate consultancies that we'd like to work with.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:11 - 1:38:14)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. I see one comment in the back.

[Speaker 28] (1:38:23 - 1:39:16)
Ana Lanzilli, Precinct 1. So a DEI coordinator has been something that we've discussed now for a couple of years, yet we haven't moved forward on it, and now at the 11th hour this is being brought to us. We do have ARPA funds that we can use for this consultant, can you hear me, for this consultant so we can figure out what exactly we need in our town because this is an important position that needs to be filled.

I personally think bringing this as a last minute to put it into our budget without using those ARPA funds to figure out exactly what is needed in our town, it would be a better idea to wait until next year in order to do that so that we can just do the right thing and make sure that we're actually putting in exactly what we need. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:17 - 1:39:29)
Thank you, Ms. Lanzilli. Mr. Birdhoff, there is a man who knows his mic technique.

[Speaker 34] (1:39:30 - 1:40:44)
I can beatbox too if you want. Aaron Birdhoff, Precinct 5. I would first like to remind everybody we approved this as town meeting a couple of years ago, this position, and as noted, it has not been passed.

So I'd especially like to thank the select board members that pushed this through, especially Katie, and as everyone noted, the last minute. It was neglected in our budgets over the past couple of years. And I would just also like to mention having known a few DEI coordinators, worked with a couple, they know the answers to the questions that are being asked tonight.

What do we need? What do we need? That's why we're hiring a coordinator to answer those questions, that they will assess those needs.

And we need it now. We needed it yesterday. We needed it last year.

So let's go ahead and move forward with getting this consultant in place to actually move forward with some initiatives. And I'm just curious about the level of question on this particular position, and I hope it's something that comes up with every position, like the deputy chief for the police department as well. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:45 - 1:42:43)
Thank you, Mr. Birdhoff. Further comments? Mr. Perry. Mr. Perry has moved the previous question or called the question. For those of you who have not been through one of these sessions yet, this is a motion that is allowed that would end debate, but it does require both a second. Is there a second?

It also requires a two-thirds vote by this body. In the case that a two-thirds vote is achieved, we will end debate on the amendment, move directly to a vote on the amendment, and then return to Mr. Hartman's original motion as amended. All those in favor of calling the previous question, thereby ending debate, please signify by raising your hands.

All those opposed? It is unanimous. We now come to a vote on Mr. Hartman's amendment to create an $80,000 line item for a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant by reducing the enumerated lines individually. All those in favor of Mr. Hartman's amendment, please raise your hand. All those opposed? The motion carries.

We now return to the original main motion as amended, which would, if you recall, since we left off on page 4 because the amendments began on page 5, bring us to page 5. Thus, questions on legal insurance, human resources, and technology in the beginning of the parking clerk. Questions or comments?

Seeing none, moving to page 6, which includes the rest of the parking clerk, town clerk, administration and finance, the beginning thereof, community development, board of appeals. Yes, Ms. DiCello?

[Speaker 4] (1:42:54 - 1:48:55)
Hello, Mr. Mayor. Mary DiCello, Precinct 4, town meeting member, also a member of the VFW Auxiliary. I'm speaking tonight on this item, very concerned about the issue of planning in this town, and I would like to address my comments to the need for a planner and by way of looking at the amount of money we're now spending in terms of community development.

Mr. Hartman and town administrator Fitzgerald talked a lot about the kinds of future needs that we are going to be facing and also the amount of money that we're spending on the kinds of services that we have. One of the things that I want to kind of start, made a list of, and I would like to share it with you, of our current, I had 16 items, if you would indulge me here, of things that we are either current or in need of things that were in terms of planning. So without any, these are not in any order of prominence, but my concern is overall fragmentation of planning in the town amongst the boards, commissions, and committees.

We need a point person that is actually going to be trained that can do that and can project and get resources, bring resources together. So without any order here, it would be the harbor and waterfront needs, Springbrook, open space, the Hadley School restoration project, Humphrey Street development, the harbor, Hawthorne property, the Pine Street property, the VFW property, the aforementioned, the presentation we had earlier tonight from Dr. Schultz on the governor property, Governor Grosvenor property, Vinence Square, housing choice, multifamily transit housing, building roads and planning for roads and roadways, creative affordable housing. It goes on and on here. And what I'm most concerned about is that we have, that these require very specific skills that we are now not addressing, a person, a pin person.

So I have a question about how we're allocating the three positions here, the director of community development, assistant director of community development, which has been talked about, just mentioned a minute ago, as being a town planner. It's not here written, nor is the description as a town planner. And then a land use board coordinator, I don't know what that is, and I couldn't find a description for it.

So I'm wondering out loud if perhaps we need to be thinking and rethinking, particularly the other thing that I didn't mention that is probably the most prominent is the need for an updated master plan, which is over 70 years old. So I would invite town meeting tonight to rethink and think about as we're approaching all the zoning challenges that we're having in this town meeting specifically, how we are going to best attract a person that can help us with these very serious planning issues that I know are way beyond my peer grade and my comprehension, truthfully. And so when I go to vote on these things, I am very nervous about voting on things when I wonder how they've been vetted and how the direction has been done and the processes that have been used.

I think a town planner who's been trained in town planning, they play it down the middle, is my understanding. And I think we need to be mindful as we go forward and spend our money going and all the things that we need to do in capital improvements that we're not just willy-nilly going back and forth. So we have a Climate Committee now.

We have a Harbor and Waterfront Committee. We have an Open Space Committee. We have all these different committees, and I'm not sure we're using everything as effectively as we can.

So my question, I guess, would be to the town administrator. I don't know how, in a budget way, how this can then be increased and the job title changed, the assistant planner title changed, and get that affected here at town meeting so that we do attract and go out to a town administrator told me at a meeting on May 3rd, a public select board meeting, that it's a very competitive market out there. Well, if that's the case, we have to be really competitive, and we need to be able to provide the best attraction to get a candidate.

So is there? That's a long-winded question and comment.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:56 - 1:49:04)
Thank you, Mr. Chillo, and I know it's been a topic of discussion between the town administrator and the select board, so please, Mr. Fitzgerald. Sure.

[Speaker 3] (1:49:05 - 1:51:34)
Mary, thank you. Really appreciate the question. I think it's important for us to just recognize that we have two extraordinary professionals that work in our community and economic development office that have brought in over $700,000 worth of grants this past year.

They support every one of the committees that you mentioned. They go to every meeting. They take minutes.

They support Swampskate. This town meeting warrant is full of a lot of recommendations that they've worked hard to really put together. Swampskate's moving.

We have a lot of projects, and I'm proud of that work. I can't underscore just how dedicated the team of professionals we have. Our community development department over the last few years has gone from the third floor of town hall down to the first floor.

It sits right next to our building and inspectional services office. We work as a team at town hall, and we support planning. We plan the work.

We work the plan. You don't have a better planning board anywhere else than you have in Swampskate. The people that staff your boards and commissions are as passionate about this town that they love as much as everybody in this room.

You are absolutely well supported. Have we tried to hire a town planner? You bet we have.

Have we tried to hire an assistant director of community development after we interviewed a number of candidates that took jobs for assistant directors? Yes. We're in a market that is changing, and I'll just say it's not as easy right now to fill any position.

I don't know if folks are looking at the want ads, but it is challenging. With that said, I have no doubt we will find somebody. We are taking the appropriate amount of time to find the right person.

We also have consultants that work with us. The Hadley School Reuse Committee had a consultant that did a wonderful job. We have a consultant working with our Harbor and Waterfront Plan, and we are going to continue to work with consultants to help us think about the Hawthorne.

All of these projects are supported with grants and other incredible efforts by our community development and town hall team. Frankly, I don't want you to worry. We will fill this position.

We will redouble our efforts, and we'll do our best to try to keep Swampskate affordable as well because, as I've mentioned, we have to balance all these priorities, and we're doing our best to try to make sure we find that right fit.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:34 - 1:51:36)
It's a complicated responsibility.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:37 - 1:51:40)
Can I just ask what is a land use coordinator position?

[Speaker 1] (1:51:40 - 1:51:53)
Could I ask? Implicit in the question was why is the title not for a planner, and then how do you break down that department? Because I know there was discussion about this in the select board.

[Speaker 3] (1:51:53 - 1:52:42)
So the reason we changed the town planner to an assistant director was simply to attract town planner candidates that wanted to take that next step up and have a bump in salary. And so we wanted to give them more duties and responsibilities, but we were looking to try to be responsive to the market. In terms of the land use board coordinator, that position really is a part-time position that helped us focus on some of the technical work that a lot of our land use boards need, and it's a niche type of planning skill that helps support some of the responsibilities of the land use boards.

It was a little bit of a hybrid position, you know, in between a town planner and a clerk.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:43 - 1:52:51)
Can I just get you to clarify? The assistant director of community development title would be an upgrade to calling someone a town planner.

[Speaker 32] (1:52:51 - 1:52:51)
That's correct.

[Speaker 3] (1:52:51 - 1:53:00)
They would essentially have all of the planning town planner responsibilities and some leadership or managerial responsibilities.

[Speaker 1] (1:53:01 - 1:53:03)
Okay, thank you. Mr. Cillo, any further?

[Speaker 4] (1:53:04 - 1:54:59)
Do we know that for certain? Within the field of planning, I don't know if there's anybody here in the field of planning, but do we know that for certain, that there is a hierarchy? Because my sense is that if you can give a competitive salary and a title to a person that is willing to put in the work here, and really a young person, particularly we have a planning department out in Tufts, I know, and there's some others in the area.

I think UMass Boston has a planning department. Get energetic. If it can be seen as a jumping off place and a good way to be seen in that way, I would want to know that that title means something, that an assistant doesn't sound like the town planner to me, and I don't know that much about it, so I'm whatever in that way.

But I think that the point is that the other point that we need to look at is the relationship between the planning, the community development office, and the planning board. And I also am concerned, my last comment here will be, I believe that the planning activities have fallen de facto to the planning board and to the chair of the planning board. And I think that that is upside down.

And I think that some of the last-minute amendments that have been offered, articles that have been offered around planning here are the result of a process that has been compromised. And so if it were running on all cylinders, as you described, and with all due respect, Administrator Fitzgerald, it would feel a little less rushed and a little more planned if this is planning. So thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:54:59 - 1:55:18)
Thank you, Mr. Schillow. I am sure we would all benefit from having someone in that position. I would point out to everyone that 10 years ago or so we fought to get a single position.

Now we have a robust department. So that, I think, is some significant progress. Sir, do I see a hand?

Yes.

[Speaker 19] (1:55:25 - 1:56:42)
Hi, Lenny Russo, Town Meeting Member of Precinct 4. I just want to speak to Mrs. Schillow's point and just kind of support her on this. I think succinctly what she's trying to say, with everything we have going on in this town, there's huge projects, we're relying on committees and boards, and with all due respect to Margie and the team, economic development is really going well and they're bringing a lot of new businesses in.

But with so much going on and trying to elevate our town to the next level and the amount of money we're talking about, are we selling ourselves short in this budget, speaking just to this budget, by not funding the right level, the right number, and the right titles of positions and actively going out and seeking people to do the job? I mean, they're out there. We deal with places where we have other homes, like in Rock Hill, South Carolina.

They brought in people from Buffalo, New York, and other people to develop the city and really do some major things there. I think it's just so important to this town, with everything that we have going on, to put the right resources and the right budget, and I'm just wondering what you think about that and if anything can be done to increase these positions.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:43 - 1:56:52)
Thank you, Mr. Russo. Perhaps, Mr. Fitzgerald, you can briefly detail the history of how we did go to market and why you came back with this proposal.

[Speaker 3] (1:56:54 - 1:57:49)
Mr. Russo, thank you. I appreciate all those concerns, really. We need this function, but we have posted this position as a town planner, we've posted it as an assistant director, and we've had some interviews, and we just haven't found that right fit.

So I just want to stress, we're not filling this position just to fill it. We're actually trying to find that right fit, and sometimes that does take a little bit longer. I just ask folks to be patient.

We share all of the same concerns about making sure we have that planning function. We're at a great time right now. We're doing a lot of really important, exciting things, and I do think we will find somebody.

We have a lot of talented staff working at Town Hall, and I have no doubt, you know, we're going to find a successful candidate that can continue to contribute at a high level. Uh, yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:51 - 1:57:52)
Sorry, Ms. Driscoll.

[Speaker 20] (1:57:58 - 1:59:08)
Anne Driscoll, town meeting member, Precinct 1. I have no doubt that the Economic and Community Development Program, I mean, department, is doing a great job, but we have been without a town planner for 16 months. We have many, many important issues that we're facing, and so I would like to make a motion on line item number 24 to combine the assistant director of community development with a salary of $73,389 and land use board coordinator with a salary of $37,000, excuse me, $1,114 to be listed as a senior planner or as somebody that will be in charge of all the planning in the town for a salary, total salary of $110,499. I think that this is a way that we can attract top talent to see us through these many issues and complicated issues we have many things to deal with.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:09 - 1:59:21)
Do I have a second? There is a motion on the floor from Ms. Driscoll to amend. Is there a second?

I hear a second. Is there discussion on this amendment? Mr. Spellios?

[Speaker 7] (1:59:29 - 2:02:10)
Hello, Peter Spellios, Select Board, Precinct 3. Anne Driscoll and Mary DiTullio, I love you, both of you. You are speaking, like, the language we want to hear.

Both of you are 100% right about your emphasis and your focus on this position, without question. But I want to say a little bit more about the land use coordinator. So if people want to put more money towards a planner, I'm not going to stand in the way of a conversation as long as we're taking it from reasonable places.

But I do want to talk about the land use coordinator because that is something that's just not understood and there's good reasons why you wouldn't because it really is a primarily behind-the-scenes person. The chair of the planning board's here, the chair of the zoning board's here, the chair of the historic district commission's here, the chair of the historic commission's here, the chair of the conservation commission's here, all have regulatory functions, they all have dates that they have to comply by, they have to file applications, they need to put things in newspapers, they need to send notices to abutters, they need to check for completeness of applications, they need to converse back and forth with the applicants before the public hearings. That individual is doing the work of more than a half-time position, but most importantly, they're taking that work away from the planner, away from the director of community development and others who need to spend the time on the substantive planning things that Mary and Anne and others are talking about here.

That land use coordinator is the one that makes sure that we file things on time because if we don't, things are deemed approved. That land use coordinator makes sure that we provide public notice because if we don't, that gives rise to legal expenses and appeals. So that land use coordinator, just by title, is not pretty remarkable, but something that we didn't have for a long time and so that meant our planner actually did those things, which means our planner wasn't planning full-time.

We now have a land use coordinator, and I'm loathe ever to talk about town personnel. I'm also just going to go out and tell you right now we have a great land use coordinator. We have someone who shows up, puts in extra effort and does that, and keeps the zoning board, the planning board, the conservation commission, the historic district commission, the historic commissions all intact so we don't have legal appeals.

You're not hearing about legal appeals. You don't hear about process problems. You hear about residents filing petitions and getting through boards, some fast, some slow, some medium, but all that is because of the land use coordinator.

So while I do applaud the support for the planner position, I respectfully ask for this motion to not succeed because this motion would in fact have us eliminating the land use board coordinator and thereby consolidating these functions once again in a position that would detract from what the planner is designed to do. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:10 - 2:03:10)
Thank you, Mr. Spellios. Mr. Iannacone, I see your hand, but I need to clarify something for the body. I allow this motion although it is not changing the bolded item number.

So this is in essence trying to amend sub-items that aren't under town meeting's appropriation authority. However, I think the conversation is valid so that the town administration gets a sense of town meeting that the emphasis on the planner or whatever you want to title that is of extreme importance to this body. With that in mind, seeing that the vote will have no change to the actual appropriation, I'm going to ask for a sense-of-the-body vote on the topic of Ms. Driscoll's proposed amendment. But first, Mr. Iannacone has a comment he would like to make.

[Speaker 21] (2:03:21 - 2:03:38)
According to... I'm sorry, Steve Iannacone, precinct 4 town meeting member. According to the motion put forth so far, I would like to make a friendly amendment.

Is that possible?

[Speaker 1] (2:03:38 - 2:03:44)
There can be an amendment to an amendment on the floor. Certainly let me hear your amendment. We'll see if it's in order.

[Speaker 21] (2:03:46 - 2:03:57)
My amendment would be to take $30,000 from the deputy chief position, number... Well, do I need the number?

[Speaker 1] (2:03:58 - 2:04:01)
You will need to put this in writing so you'll need to find it at some point.

[Speaker 21] (2:04:02 - 2:04:28)
I'll give the number in writing. It added to the current allocation of the assistant director of community development to increase it to $103,285 for the purpose of funding that position.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:31 - 2:04:40)
Could you please... I'll recognize a point of order as soon as I have a point of order. What is the line you're suggesting to decrease?

[Speaker 21] (2:04:47 - 2:05:10)
I'm sorry, give me two seconds. It is line 41 under public safety. The second item is indicated as deputy chief new to reduce that salary by $30,000.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:10 - 2:05:47)
Let me restate what I believe your motion to amend, Ms. Driscoll's motion to amend is, and then I'm going to ask you to see the town clerk. You move to reduce line 41 police personnel by $30,000 with a notional taking from the deputy chief, which is not an appropriation line, and apply that amount to the economic community development personnel subtotal line with a notional idea of increasing the spending.

[Speaker 21] (2:05:48 - 2:05:50)
Of the purpose of increasing that salary.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:50 - 2:05:54)
Could you please see the town clerk? And, Mr. Pielot, you had a point of order.

[Speaker 29] (2:06:05 - 2:06:23)
Dennis Pielot, precinct 4. Given the fact that both of those things are under the same line item, you're making a motion. We were just getting a feel of the body and not, so you're making a motion on something that's not a motion.

Am I correct in that? You can't amend something that's not amendable.

[Speaker 1] (2:06:23 - 2:07:13)
You have a fair point. There is a motion. I'm trying to unravel all the good wishes of this body in the most expeditious manner possible.

To that order, to that end, I'm going to ask that Mr. Iannacone withdraw his motion momentarily so that we may have a vote on Ms. Driscoll's sense of the body amendment that she would rather see more money spent on the currently labeled assistant director of community development sub-line item. With that in mind, is there any further discussion on that particular topic? Mr. Bierman, I saw you first.

[Speaker 16] (2:07:19 - 2:08:32)
Jack Bierman, town meeting member, precinct 6. I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of trying to figure out what the best strategy is for deploying these resources to the particular positions that are involved. The finance committee has gone over this budget.

The select board has gone over this budget. The town administrator has had a lot of input into this budget. And I just feel like this is the sort of thing that, I think I appreciate the notion that there's a sense that maybe we're not spending the money on planning that we ought to be spending or the failure to hire a planner is harming us.

But other than that, I would ask both motion makers to withdraw these motions. And if anyone disagrees with me that we ought to be doing planning, fine. People could express that view.

But I think the message is pretty clear. And I don't think, I don't know how any of us are competent to figure out how much you need to spend to get a deputy chief and how much you need to spend to get a planner and how much you ought to have a land-use board coordinator, which Mr. Espelios makes a pretty persuasive explanation of why that's a vital position to keep the paper working in that without taking away from the substantive work that the other people need to do.

So I would ask that we just sort of move on.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:40 - 2:08:40)
Ms. Schutzer.

[Speaker 11] (2:08:47 - 2:08:50)
Thank you, Carol Schutzer, Precinct 6.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:51 - 2:09:38)
With what Jack said, I guess what I'm wondering, because I think the message about planning is relatively clear, and I think we do feel, or many of us feel, uncomfortable as town meeting members in that even though I paid attention to the moderator's lessons, that we don't know all the details of every line item. Is there a way for you, the town administration, to come back to us with an amendment tomorrow, as you did tonight in order to fund a consultant, with where the line items should be addressed so that we could better afford a more senior position and that we could then vote that as an amendment to the budget tomorrow night? Does that seem like a reasonable thing to do?

Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:40 - 2:10:45)
I would take that, Ms. Schutzer, as a motion to table the entire operating budget. Or to reconsider the budget tomorrow night. Okay.

Is there further discussion on Ms. Driscoll's motion? Seeing none, all those in favor of expressing the will of this body that there should be more emphasis placed on the planning function as witnessed with the relationship between the two sub-line items, Land Use Coordinator and Assistant Director of Community Development, please raise your hands. All those opposed?

That motion fails. Mr. Iannaconi, I will return to you now. I have your amendment in hand.

Is it still your intention to move to amend the two line items, decreasing the Police Deputy Chief by $30,000 and increasing the personnel line item for Community Development?

[Speaker 21] (2:10:46 - 2:10:50)
Given the sense of the group, I will withdraw the motion.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:51 - 2:11:41)
Thank you, Mr. Iannaconi. Any further discussion on page 6? Yes, please.

I'm sorry, I can't recognize you on that. If you want to move to reconsider the budget tomorrow night, you may. So I don't have a motion from Ms. Schutzer. She doesn't want to table the operating budget. Moving to reconsider it tomorrow night is certainly an acceptable motion. You can't reconsider it now.

You can't require it to be reconsidered tomorrow. You can only table it now or take it up tomorrow.

[Speaker 38] (2:11:44 - 2:12:49)
Yes, please. Hi. Can you hear me okay?

Alicia Redden, Precinct 1. I think that it makes a lot of sense for us to reconsider what we're looking for in a planner. I'm completely on board with that.

Just to put it out, and I'm sure your numbers match kind of what the average across the state is, but planners are getting $50,000 to $108,000 a year. What we have posted here in our budget is in the bottom percentile for what planners make, and so I think it's probably not going to be a great attractor. I've worked in municipal government for a long time, and I would say that based off of what we need, we need somebody with considerable education, measurable success, the niche understanding of a community like Swampscot with limited space to grow but a lot of growth potential.

I think it would be who of us to really reconsider what we're looking to post this at and to remove assistant, make it a director of planning, and to raise the salary. That's all. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Redden.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:49 - 2:12:55)
Ma'am, in the back there, yes. Yes, please.

[Speaker 33] (2:13:05 - 2:13:52)
Barry Atkin, Precinct 6. In support of the previous speaker and in support of Carol Schultz's comment that planning is really important and essential and we have all these challenges, and as a town meeting member my second year, I find it very difficult to follow all these changes required and zoning changes and so on. My question is, is it absolutely...

And I don't think we should be trying to say where additional money should come from. My question is, is it verboten to suggest that we increase the total operating budget by, say, 50,000?

[Speaker 1] (2:13:54 - 2:14:09)
You would need to identify a source of funds. The town administrator is constrained to present a balanced budget, so you could move to take it out of stabilization, you could move to take it out of free cash, but you can't just increase it without offsetting it.

[Speaker 33] (2:14:10 - 2:14:33)
In that case, I would like to try to have some sort of motion to ask the Finance Committee and Select Board to come back and say, here's where we could put more money into a planner position, as opposed to for them to figure out where to take it out of.

[Speaker 1] (2:14:34 - 2:15:00)
I understand the instinct. What you have before you is the Finance Committee and the town administrator's recommendation. If we want to make a different recommendation on town meeting flow, you just need to find a source for the monies.

If I may, Mr. Perry? Is it on? It is now.

[Speaker 15] (2:15:01 - 2:16:27)
Jerry Perry, Precinct 1. With the utmost respect to you, Mr. Moderator, I would disagree with what your assessment was. I understand that we have a balanced budget.

However, you've articulated taking it from stabilization, free cash, and that is certainly permissible. However, I remind you, sir, we have $8.9 million in excess levy capacity. As such, any, in my opinion, of 40-plus years, that any town meeting member could get up at the podium, make a motion to amend, to add whatever dollar amount they want, as long as they don't exceed $8.9 million. I don't think we're going to worry about that. And as such, you do not have to take, if they so desire, you don't necessarily have to do it from stabilization, free cash, et cetera, and it will still balance the budget under the laws of Proposition 2.5. As such, I'm taken by Peter's comments. I think we should have a land use score, and I agree with you on that.

And I would be comfortable, I don't want to start writing things here, but it seems to me that if we raise this to $110,000 and I'm identifying the excess levy capacity available to the town without cutting any other line on them, we're raising our taxes by, I don't know, another 30, 40 grand, whatever it is, I think that's more than doable, and I would suggest that's a good path to take. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:28 - 2:16:58)
Thank you, Mr. Perry. I see Mr. Spellios, and then I see Ms. Schutzer has a motion to make. Mr. Perry, I appreciate the commentary, and I'll be coming to the Finance Committee for discussion of how this fits within or outside our fiscal guidelines. Mr. Spellios, and then Ms. Schutzer.

[Speaker 7] (2:17:00 - 2:18:40)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. I'm going to get in the habit of this. Mr. Perry, I love you too. We've come a long way, you and I. We really have. It's awesome.

I want to ask the moderator's permission actually to let an individual that, frankly, we were remiss not talking about. Our Assistant Town Administrator and HR Director is our second and our longest-serving planner in the town of Swampscott. He is, in my view, the reason that you are all advocating for exponentially more money than we had to stand up here 12-plus years ago to get anyone to support when our planner was $30,000 and that's all we spent.

It was unbelievable. That's why I'm saying I love people. I love you all for raising your hand.

This is such a changing culture, and it's so wildly important. And what Pete Kane started, the train he started with planning initiatives, and you're going to hear more about this later on, and the plans that we're working from, we have playbooks, something we've never had in this town because we didn't do planning. No one knew where the master plan was.

No one knew where the open space plan was. Pete is primarily responsible for that, and I want him just to... And then so I don't have to come up again, I also want to say this.

I second whoever stood up and talked about, I think it was Sean, about our planning board. We have an amazing planning board. But as importantly, we have a chair of a planning board who spends more hours a week doing planning and doing things and drafting things and talking to people and going to conferences that we could never afford what we have in our planning board chair.

So I just want to thank Angela Ippolito for that as well.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:42 - 2:18:49)
Thank you, Mr. Spellios. Mr. Kane. Thank you, Mr. Notary.

[Speaker 22] (2:18:50 - 2:20:10)
Town meeting members, thank you. I just want to provide some clarity. Many of you do recall back in 2011 I started as the town planner.

The department was created or recreated after the Great Recession. A town planner title is used in a department when you have a single staff member handling the planning. We do not have that any longer.

Town meeting has recognized the importance of planning and has allowed us to expand that department multiple times. We have changed that title. It is an archaic title.

The title of town planner was changed to a senior planner years ago. That is now being proposed as the assistant director of planning, which you see in the book as assistant director of community development. If you look on the town website, the position that is posted for assistant director of planning is an elevated position of a town planner that requires both municipal experience and your educational experience, preferably AICP certified, whereas a town planner generally does not come in, I did not come in when I first started here, with any municipal experience.

So I would recommend or encourage town meeting members to recognize that what we have done is look at the personnel needs, and what we put in the book is actually an elevated and looking for that additional expertise to bring to the town that's important for you. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:10 - 2:20:21)
Thank you, Mr. Cain. Further discussion on this page? Mr. Perry.

[Speaker 15] (2:20:26 - 2:20:53)
Thank you again. My apologies for coming back a second time. I am going to make a motion, though, consistent with my thought process.

Let's see how it goes. While I don't know what the policies are of the town, what I'm about to move, I think you would agree with me, is legal under the laws of Proposition 2½, correct? Yep.

Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Therefore, I move that the sum of $261,797 be raised and appropriated from the tax levy for the line item. What is the line item?

Help me here.

[Speaker 11] (2:20:54 - 2:20:55)
It should be...

[Speaker 15] (2:20:55 - 2:22:01)
24, is it? I'll give this in writing to the clerk, Mr. Moderator. I'm hoping somebody will second that so I can speak to it.

Simply put, as I indicated earlier, yeah, I'm asking you to raise your taxes by, based on my calculation, another $36,615. It's going to make nothing. Your taxes will probably go up a penny.

I really am impressed with Mr. Spellios. I think he's right. We have to keep the land use person.

What I'm trying to do is actually elevate the operation. I'm not trying to... I'm trying to give more tools.

I think that, you know, some of the people spoke. I think to get someone for $73,000 is tough. Sean Fitzgerald is right.

It's hard to get people. But this makes it easier. If we elevate that to $110,000, I think you get better planning.

We get a lot of challenges here. And for the small dollar amount we have on a $75 million to $80 million operation, this works. I'm not cutting any other budget.

I'm not taking money from the police department or anything else. I'm taking it out of the pockets of the taxpayers of the town of Swampskate, and I think it's a good idea. I hope you will adopt my motion to amend.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:01 - 2:22:10)
Thank you, Mr. Perry. Mr. Hartman? Any comment from the Finance Committee's perspective?

[Speaker 2] (2:22:10 - 2:22:45)
Yeah, I will comment, only that I'm trusting those who know that this is within prop 2 of my hash. Being that the case, though, I would express concerns about setting a precedent here. This is not something we have done in my memory and I think some others that I've spoken to.

So I would be concerned that... Recognize, Mr. Perry, I don't disagree with the idea of what you're proposing, nor the small amount of the dollars, but I also would not think... I wouldn't want to be in a position where any adjustment that anybody proposes becomes an amendment and we just use excess levy capacity.

So I personally would not recommend that strategy.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:46 - 2:22:55)
Thank you, Mr. Hartman. Further discussion about Mr. Perry's motion to increase the overall budget by an additional $30,000? Mr. Smith?

[Speaker 29] (2:23:00 - 2:24:11)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. It's Jim Smith, Precinct 5. Last year we sat in this room and on no notice spent $7 million on a valuable piece of land not knowing what the heck we're going to do with it.

Let's hire a qualified and competent planner to help us. Mr. Perry is right on. I agree with his motion.

We have an awful lot on our plate in this community. Planners are expensive. In fact, I'm not sure every $110,000 will do it, but I'll support the motion.

But let's really think about what's at stake all across the community. We heard about the Glover this evening, we got the Yahoo from the guy in the back, we've got open space issues, we've got housing issues. We need a highly qualified planner and it's a great investment at $110,000, it'd be great at almost any number to get somebody who's qualified.

We've been doing it kind of, it seems to me, on the cheap. We can't afford to do it on the cheap. I support the motion, I hope the town does hire a qualified planner.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:15 - 2:24:21)
I'm sorry, in the back, I can't recognize you under that light. Please, yes.

[Speaker 36] (2:24:26 - 2:25:33)
Good evening. Jer Jerma, town meeting member. I don't know how you couldn't recognize me.

It's got to be the haircut. Precinct 3. I want to also speak in support of getting the salary aligned with the amount of education, the amount of experience.

We are currently in a situation where we're talking about DEI, $70,000 for someone with that type of education. If they are not from generational wealth, are carrying loans, that is not a livable wage. Especially with the amount of experience we want, too.

This is actually a DEI issue that we can start addressing as a body. Until we are paying professionals appropriately, we cannot attract people without generational wealth, which very often means people that are diverse. Based on that alone, I do recommend evaluating a salary at that level for someone with a master's degree and municipal experience.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:33 - 2:25:40)
Thank you, Mr. Jerma. Sir, in the grey t-shirt. I see you, Mr. Beaupre.

[Speaker 26] (2:25:46 - 2:27:19)
Rupert Deese, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 5. It seems to me that the body is discussing two issues here. We're expressing a lot of support for planning, and I think everyone seems to agree with that.

It also seems that we're discussing what's the most expeditious way to get someone who's extremely qualified to do the planning that we want to do into this position. I think people have made comments in previous discussion tonight about the benefit of planning for the budget, or planning for amendments and all this. I guess I'm just curious from people who are involved in the setting of the amount for this position, whether they have any objection to a higher number.

I know from my limited, I'm sure, compared to many people in this room, experience hiring people to work. Setting salary can create workplace dynamics. Sometimes you can be in an uncomfortable position relative to how much experience you're asking for, but then how much autonomy you're going to be giving the person.

I guess I think there are people maybe who haven't spoken to this aspect of the issue at hand that I might like to hear from as far as why this number and why not a higher number. Given that the body is enthusiastic about raising that amount, I guess I would just hear if there are any issues perceived by people who are closer to the government of the town. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:20 - 2:27:24)
Mr. Fitzgerald, do you have a comment for that? Sure.

[Speaker 3] (2:27:24 - 2:29:04)
I think that's a very important consideration. Obviously, when we look at one position, they relate to every other position. Look, as a town administrator, I've been asked to put a budget together that doesn't increase more than 2% plus new growth.

You live in one of the highest taxed communities in the Commonwealth. It is expensive. You have a community that has the largest over the age of 65% of your population that are moving on a fixed income, and it's expensive.

Now, I'm not asking you not to think about the important priorities of planning. We all agree this needs to be fundamentally important, but when you increase that salary, there are other salaries in this town budget, and everybody's going to be looking at their equity and their fairness. I've got every department, and we've put a budget together.

We had to cut over a million dollars out of this budget just to get it to a point where it was not going to increase more than 2% plus new growth. Now, look, this is your government. This is our democracy.

I don't want to discourage some of these conversations, but you might increase it by $30,000, but the unintended consequences of that impacting all these other positions could be very, very difficult, and again, I get it. We're out there looking for a market. Mr. Cain spoke about our efforts. I do believe that we'll find somebody, but it's going to put pressure on a number of other positions.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:06 - 2:29:09)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:10 - 2:29:42)
Could I just offer just an idea? I don't want to speak to the Finance Committee, but the Finance Committee does have a Finance Committee reserve, so perhaps a compromise might be to determine an amount that we might authorize the town administrator instead of the $73,000 salary to go up to say $25,000 or $30,000, whatever that is. If he needs that in the hiring process, if he doesn't, we don't spend it, but we'd agree to earmark that out of the Finance Committee reserve.

Wouldn't have to change the total budget nor reach into the untapped levy capacity.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:47 - 2:29:58)
Thank you, Mr. Hartman. I am checking to see which line item that is. Is that, in fact, a motion by you to amend Mr. Perry's motion?

[Speaker 2] (2:30:02 - 2:30:02)
Sorry.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:14 - 2:30:57)
I apologize for sending out two things at the same time. Mr. Hartman is correct. The Finance Committee reserve, which is currently set at $125,000, would be ready for use if in an unforeseen instance where the amount that has been budgeted is insufficient that can be voted by the Finance Committee for use by the Town Administration.

I don't know how you, Mr. Perry, can foresee what the asking price for a planner would be without knowing who the individual is. Is that Mr. Craft?

[Speaker 32] (2:31:02 - 2:32:09)
Rick Craft, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 3. My sense of this is that if we authorize $30,000 additional, that is available there, but it's not a requirement that the salary be set at that amount. That's the maximum amount that could be used to post-submission with additional qualifications, higher qualifications, than what's posted now.

At the same time, I think Mr. Hartman's proposal is a very viable way of addressing that, but I think there's a strong sense of the community here that we need a planner as soon as we reasonably can. Offering more money is one of the best ways of doing that, and I think as long as that message comes through, that we need to take the action necessary to get somebody in here so we can effectively use the Town resources. I'm open to Mr. Hartman's proposal, I'm open to Mr. Perry's proposal, but I think the issue here is there needs to be a higher priority on planning than what's in the budget now, and these are two ways of accomplishing that.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:10 - 2:32:22)
Thank you, Mr. Craft. I see Mr. Iannacone. You rise a second time on this topic, so I'll ask you please to approach the mic.

[Speaker 21] (2:32:26 - 2:33:07)
Thank you all for all your attention. I know this is going on. I do want to speak to Mr. Perry's advice as someone who wants to increase this salary, that I do not think that increasing and using the excess taxing authority or whatever it's called, sorry, to do it, it does set an example and a precedent that will in the future, I think, lead us into many difficulties that we can foresee. So I will speak against Mr. Perry's proposal, even though I am in favor of increasing the budget for that position.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:08 - 2:33:20)
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Iannacone. A couple more.

I see one in the back we haven't heard from yet, and then Mr. Bierman. And we might be getting close to wanting to take a vote.

[Speaker 16] (2:33:24 - 2:34:03)
Joel Sapp, Precinct 6, also a town meeting member. I just went on the website for Swampscot just to look at the job posting, and currently it's set at plus or minus $90,000. So we should sort of, I don't know if that throws...

I want to see a proper person in this position as well. But I guess my question is, Mr. Moderator, if we did hire somebody who agreed to who wanted $92,000, where would we have gotten the money from, since we're already offering $90,000 for it?

[Speaker 1] (2:34:04 - 2:34:10)
Thank you, Mr. Sapp. Ms. Sherald, can you speak to the listing as found on our website?

[Speaker 3] (2:34:11 - 2:35:35)
Sure. So we have the ability to negotiate salaries and contracts, and so there may be a number of creative ways to retain somebody and negotiate a multi-year contract that would help satisfy the interest of an individual. But the town does have the ability to work with transfers, you know, and we can certainly show up at a fall town meeting and seek some additional appropriation if we needed to increase a line item.

So there are a number of different strategies that we can employ to both negotiate that salary, but also seek additional appropriations. That said, as the chair of the Finance Committee mentioned, having a Finance Committee reserve or a salary reserve does give a community a chance to put some money in a line item that helps you deal with some of the changes in your human resources salaries. The last couple of years has been very dynamic, and so maybe the thought is that we increase the salary reserve.

Again, this is a discussion for town meeting. I do appreciate the conversation, though, because we are trying to fill that position.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:37 - 2:35:38)
Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald. Mr. Bierman.

[Speaker 16] (2:35:49 - 2:36:20)
Jack Bierman, Precinct 6. Mr. Moderator, I thought I heard the town administrator as part of this discussion say that we're a high tax town in the Commonwealth, and I think our tax rate now is below the average for the Commonwealth. Maybe I'm misreading what I've been understood in that we've had years of relatively modest increases.

So, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Moderator, but I do believe we're actually a relatively low tax town, not close to the top in Massachusetts, below average, and also not close to the top in Essex County any longer, which we used to be near the top. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:21 - 2:36:43)
Thank you, Mr. Bierman. It's without question our taxes have increased less than they have in the past. Did I hear somebody ask to be recognized?

Mr. Spritz.

[Speaker 25] (2:36:43 - 2:37:57)
Hi, Wayne Spritz, Precinct 3, and I have a question for Mr. Hartman, and I think this might align a little bit towards trying to understand the revenues, offsetting expenses, and so on. So, we've had an unprecedented financial markets this year, right? Changes that most people didn't see coming, so between inflation, but Sorry about that.

I apologize. Is that better? Talk in my low voice.

My question is, is that the income statement that you had here, I think is reflective of the monies that we have either in trust or in free cash that are generating interest. I'm not sure how those are managed. I'm not sure how safe they are, and that's kind of the thrust of my original question, right?

But knowing what we know, are those being invested to maximize income to the point where a small $30,000 offset is marginal at best?

[Speaker 1] (2:37:59 - 2:38:01)
Hang on a sec. Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:02 - 2:38:27)
I think Ms. Sarah mentioned in her discussions that we had, I think the budget's around $900,000 of interest income for FY24, and we had much more than that in FY23 because of the excess funds from borrowing on the school that were invested with better interest rates. So it's already factored in. Of course it's an estimate, so, you know, you could argue perhaps that could be adjusted, but that's what's been, there is an accounting for that already in the current fiscal budget.

[Speaker 1] (2:38:31 - 2:40:29)
Mr. Hartman. Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Sullivan. Jill Sullivan, Precinct 5 town meeting member, is asking to call the question and come to a vote on Mr. Perry's amendment to increase the line 24 by $36,615, the net effect of which would be to increase the bottom line appropriation to $79,379,714. Is there a second to calling this question?

All those in favor of ending debate, please raise your hands. All those opposed? It's unanimous.

Okay. We move directly to a vote on Mr. Perry's amendment to increase that line by $36,615. If this fails, we would end up keeping it the same and given the will of the meeting, the town administrator is aware that he would be being asked to look for a way to make sure someone is hired.

If this passes, we will change the amount and raise more in taxes. All those in favor of Mr. Perry's amendment to line 24 to increase it by $36,615, please raise your hand. All those opposed?

The motion fails. We return now to Mr. Hartman's original motion as amended. Is there further discussion on page 6?

I think we can move on to page 7. Yeah, we're debating the motion. Yes.

[Speaker 11] (2:40:30 - 2:40:31)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:40:35 - 2:42:23)
Please stand recessed for 60 seconds. Thank you. Just clarifying a few things with some of those late-breaking conversations.

Moving on to page 7. The remainder of the building department, the Board of Health, the Historical Commission, and the recreation amount found in the general fund. Comments, questions on these line items.

Page 8. Facilities, cemetery, DPW. Page 9.

Remainder of DPW, snow and ice, the beginning of public safety with police personnel. Moving on to the next page, the completion of police, including the constable, the harbor master. We won't get to fire, but please note the sub lines.

Then moving on to the actual fire line items. On page 11, including and moving on beyond that to emergency management. Yes, sir.

Mr. Blonder.

[Speaker 6] (2:42:39 - 2:48:07)
Jeffrey Blonder, town meeting member, precinct 2, and I'm proudly wearing my 30 year pin, by the way, Mr. Moderator. I'm also the commander of the EF Gilmore Disabled American Veterans Chapter in Swampscott. I'd like to talk about the town's response to the veterans.

I noticed that you were increasing the budget for the veterans by $10,000, and I have several questions on that. I was wondering how many veterans were asked about that, why that was, and I know the answer would be that the town thinks that the support for the veterans has increased over the several years. They all puff out their chest and tell you.

I'm here to tell you that I don't think the town has increased their support for veterans. I think the veterans of Swampscott have increased their support for veterans in Swampscott. Swampscott's very lucky.

We have three VSOs, which are Veterans Service Organizations. We have the American Legion, the VFW, and the DAV, which I'm the commander. The DAV happens to be the largest VSO in Swampscott with over 300 members we have.

We also have a non-profit organization in town which is doing a lot of good work for veterans. They're providing, they're having food for food insecurity. They're supporting veterans in many ways.

If you go back in 10 years and see what the veterans of Swampscott got from the town, they got a Memorial Day parade, a Veterans Day ceremony, and they also got Chapter 115 aid from the state which is statutory. The town is required to provide Chapter 115 aid to veterans. But I'll tell you some things that other towns are doing.

This past March 29th was Vietnam Veteran Day. It's the 50th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War and where cities and towns all across America thanked and welcomed home all Vietnam veterans. Swampscott did not do that.

But I'll tell you what the veterans of Swampscott did. My DAV, we went to Lynn and we went to the Habitat Plus home in Lynn which is a group home for transitional veterans with substance abuse and mental health issues and we thanked them and we welcomed them home and provided a lunch and we do that many times. The past year the DAV has filed close to 30 claims for veterans benefits for veterans.

Many of those resulted in increased funding and additional compensation and that's what veterans are doing for veterans. Not the town. We've been very active in the community.

We had and I want to thank, I want to have a shout out for our new representative. She came to our DAV meeting and met with veterans and we have a very good friend as veterans now I think and I really want to thank the representative for coming here and also supporting veterans. The past two years we've sponsored we've sponsored select board members to come to the veterans and we were the only organization in Swampscott to have a forum for select candidates in our live where people could come and ask questions.

Not only veterans citizens of Swampscott came. Now what do what do our veterans need? I'll tell you what they need.

A couple months ago a mother of a veteran in Swampscott was concerned her son who was a veteran was in a very dark place and we all know the statistics when veterans go in dark places what can happen to them and she called the town and the phone rang and rang and rang and there was no answer. Luckily she reached out to a member of the select board and that select board member was able to get the aid for that veteran and luckily nothing serious happened. That's what veterans need.

They don't need parades, they don't need memorial day ceremonies they need veteran services. We need to make sure that the veterans get the aid they need and the help, the mental health issues that we many face. I know I stand up here every year and I talk about veterans and people say you know why do you do it?

Why do you do it? Why are you so concerned about veterans? I tell people because I'm a very lucky man.

When I came home from Afghanistan, whatever challenges or issues I had, I was able to have a strong family unit to support me and to help me with any issues I had. The veterans of Swamp Squad also helped me and my family. A lot of veterans aren't as lucky as I am and they need that help and I'll continue to fight for them and I just want you to know that coming up in Memorial Day we like to say that some gave all and all gave some.

Now it's time for the town of Swamp Squad to give some to the veterans. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:10 - 2:48:36)
Thank you Mr. Blonder. Further discussion on page 11. Moving on to page 12 with the bulk of the library and the beginning of the public schools, we have our debt service lines and employee benefits.

Mr. Russo.

[Speaker 19] (2:48:54 - 2:49:43)
Can you hear me? There we go. Thank you Mr. Moderator. First of all, I just want to thank the Finance Committee for that excellent presentation that they gave up front recognizing this 40 new members and a little bit of the process and the transparency in the budget. I think it saved a lot of time and it must be a tremendous, tremendous amount of work to balance a $70 million budget so thank you for that. You mentioned in your presentation that the big items were health care obviously, employees and debt services.

I see debt services on here and it's a pretty large sum. Just a question, are those fixed interest rates on that debt service or are those variable that could change? They're all fixed?

[Speaker 1] (2:49:43 - 2:49:50)
I'm sorry Mr. Hartman. Sorry. Wait for the mic or certainly we could have Ms. Saro. Okay.

[Speaker 10] (2:49:52 - 2:50:07)
Hi. Yes. So we have some short-term borrowing that is, the interest rate can change on that when we do a permanent bonding but for the things that are permanently bond, the interest rate's flat.

So we have an interest rate when we bond it and that stays for the life of that borrowing.

[Speaker 19] (2:50:08 - 2:50:13)
Okay. Just with inflation and the rising costs or we're covered there fully then?

[Speaker 10] (2:50:13 - 2:50:22)
Yeah. So it's only new borrowing that will be at the current interest rates and we typically do a one to two year short-term borrowing until we permanent bond it at a better time.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:22 - 2:50:31)
Thanks for the education. I hope to get more involved. Thank you Mr. Russo. Further discussion on page 12. Yes sir, in the middle. And then Mr. Norton.

[Speaker 24] (2:50:38 - 2:52:18)
Hello. Michael Contreras from precinct one, town member. Mostly around like the school budget like I've gone to the school budget committees and I know that they were looking for around like a 4% increase and the town only kind of gave them around two.

And I know that a lot of the stuff that is kind of being proposed is around special education which is great but there were some other costs from the state about special education that the district did not really foresee which means that we're kind of taking more money away from general education. Not trying to attack any of the special education students or anything. My child is one of the special education students as well but it's more of trying to have a more well-rounded education of different subjects.

Trying to not see things kind of be decreased like health where in the middle school there really isn't a health teacher anymore. There's a part-time librarian. So some of the services that you would get at the elementary school any of the new students that might be coming in may not get those same kind of feels that they did in their elementary years in the middle school area.

So just trying to see is the town looking to potentially increase some of the funding for the school system in the next year or in the coming months at all. Just because I know that a lot of things have been kind of pushed to the school district but no money.

[Speaker 1] (2:52:20 - 2:52:47)
Thank you sir. I do know that the Director of Finance and Administration, the Town Administrator, the School Business Office and the Superintendent are in constant contact and I appreciate the work that you guys are doing to try and make the dollar stretch as far as it can. Other questions on page 12?

Yes, Mr. Norton.

[Speaker 30] (2:53:03 - 2:53:37)
Ken Norton, Precinct 3. I just had a couple quick questions regarding line item 53. Circulation Librarian $60,093.

Circulation Reference Librarian $64,103 and there was one, Children's I'm sorry, was $93. Circulation was $51,164. Are we laying off one, two, three, three or four positions to cover this?

[Speaker 1] (2:53:37 - 2:53:38)
Mr. Hartman.

[Speaker 30] (2:53:40 - 2:54:07)
On line 3 the library assistants were receiving $55,000. There is none allocated for fiscal year 24. Adult assistants was $60,000.

There is zero allocated for 24. And then librarian, there was $68,000. There's zero allocated for 24.

Were those positions all eliminated?

[Speaker 2] (2:54:10 - 2:54:27)
Mr. Hartman. We have a new library director and the people were moved into different titles for their jobs, but there is no change in FTEs or full-time employees for the library. They're just moved into different descriptions.

That's why you see dollars at zero and other numbers looking like they're getting big increases.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:28 - 2:56:03)
It's worth calling your attention to the bold number 53 having a very small change year over year. Further comments on this page. Moving on to page 13 with state charges assessments which are not appropriated, but they're there for your reference.

And we get into the enterprise funds where you are appropriating the expenses though the expenses come out of our fees, not out of the raise and appropriate for taxes including our friends with the public educational government access TV and then our solid waste enterprise fund as well. Questions on page 14 which leaves just the balance of the total solid waste enterprise to be appropriated. Any other questions anywhere else in this budget.

The motion of Mr. Hartman as amended. All those in favor of Mr. Hartman's motion please signify by raising your hand. All those opposed.

The motion carries unanimously. Moving on to article 5 establishing a special education reserve fund. Ms. Dreeben.

[Speaker 13] (2:56:08 - 2:56:20)
Thank you Mr. Moderator. Naomi Dreeben precinct 3 finance committee member. The finance committee recommends favorable action on this article.

I move the recommendation of the finance committee.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:22 - 2:56:27)
Is there a second? That essentially moves the article as printed in the warrant. Ms. Dreeben.

[Speaker 13] (2:56:31 - 2:57:32)
As a few other speakers have mentioned the cost of special education varies from year to year depending on the needs of students and it becomes very difficult to balance the school department's budget and so this would establish a reserve fund for in case the school district needs more money to cover special education expenses in the future. That money would come from our general fund. Free cash sorry.

Free cash so basically the town would set aside a chunk of change so that just to establish the fund and then in the future there would be there would be additional monies coming in from other sources so this is the establishment of a fund to kind of even out the needs for special education in the school district.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:34 - 2:58:09)
Thank you Ms. Dreeben. Is there a comment on Ms. Dreeben's motion establishing this fund and ceding it with $310,000 from free cash. All those in favor please raise your hand.

All those opposed. Motion carries unanimously. This brings us to Article 6 establishing a special purpose stabilization fund for opioid settlement payments.

Note that as a stabilization fund this does require a two-thirds vote. Ms. Dreeben.

[Speaker 13] (2:58:09 - 2:58:17)
The Finance Committee recommends favorable action on this article. I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (2:58:18 - 2:58:20)
Is there a second? Thank you. Ms. Dreeben.

[Speaker 13] (2:58:21 - 2:58:49)
There's a national opioid settlement and the town is going to get some of that money. Between 2023 and 2038 the total that the town will receive is somewhere over $1 million a little bit each year. So we need to establish a fund to put that money into and then town meeting would have to vote on the use of that money at a future point.

[Speaker 1] (2:58:50 - 2:59:35)
Thank you, Ms. Dreeben. Is there discussion, questions, debate on Ms. Dreeben's motion? Seeing none, all those in favor of her motion raise your hands.

All those opposed. Motion carries unanimously. We have already taken up and disposed of Article 7, Article 8, and Article 9 as part of the consent agenda.

Which brings us to Article 10. Mr. Schneider. And I think given the nature of Articles 10 and 11 I would first look for a motion to consider them together from you so that we may debate them.

[Speaker 14] (2:59:35 - 2:59:58)
Hello. Eric Schneider, town meeting member, Precinct 5, member of the Finance Committee. I guess at the moderator's request I'd like to make a motion to consider Eric Schneider, town meeting member, Precinct 5, member of the Finance Committee.

I'd like to make a motion to consider Articles 10 and Articles 11 together.

[Speaker 1] (2:59:59 - 3:00:12)
Is there a second? Is there discussion? All those in favor of Mr. Schneider's motion to consider these Articles together. All those opposed. The motion carries. Articles 10 and 11.

Mr. Schneider.

[Speaker 14] (3:00:12 - 3:01:27)
I have a floor motion for Article 10. Is this better? We have a floor motion on Article 10.

The Finance Committee recommends the town vote to authorize the Select Board to acquire by purchase, gift, or eminent domain a fee simple interest in property located at 12 to 24 Pine Street, Swampscott being Assessor's Tax Map 3-4-0 containing 0.360 acres more or less and described in a deed recorded with the Essex South District Registry of Deeds in Book 40542 Page 4 together with any improvements thereto for general municipal purposes and for purposes of conveyance and further to authorize the Select Board to enter into all agreements and execute any and all instruments on behalf of the town as may be necessary or appropriate to effectuate said acquisition.

I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (3:01:28 - 3:01:31)
Could we also have the recommendation on Article 11 and your motion there.

[Speaker 14] (3:01:32 - 3:01:39)
The Finance Committee recommends that Article 11 be approved as printed in the warrant. I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (3:01:39 - 3:01:43)
Is there a second to this combined motion? Mr. Schneider.

[Speaker 14] (3:01:43 - 3:02:53)
So the motion on Article 10 that I just read differs from the language in the warrant in the deletion of the phrase, if you see that starts with and further to raise an appropriate transfer and or borrow a sum of money to fund said acquisition. In other words, the town is not borrowing or raising funds from the general operating budget or taxes to fund this purchase. According to the Finance Committee debate on this Article 10 and the related Article 11 concern mostly the impact on future town budgets.

Because it is the plan to use a combination of ARPA funds and possibly funds from the affordable housing trunks, there is no immediate impact on this year's town budget from these two articles. As for future budget, it is the Finance Committee's understanding that this project is expected to generate possibly two sources of income to the town, a long-term ground lease to a developer and the real estate taxes on that property. Accordingly, the Finance Committee recommends favorable action on this article.

[Speaker 1] (3:02:53 - 3:02:58)
I believe the Select Board was also going to speak to these articles. Thank you, Mr. Schneider. Mr. Grishman.

[Speaker 8] (3:03:05 - 3:07:10)
Good evening. David Grishman, Affordable Housing Trust, Precinct 1 Town Meeting Member, Select Board. In April of 2023, subject to the approval of this body, the Select Board signed a purchase and sale on 12 to 24 Pine Street using ARPA funds.

The plan is to provide 30 to 40 units of veterans' affordable housing and rebuild the DFW Post 1240 to ensure services can be brought in to provide the highest level of care and support to our veterans. This idea to invest over $1.7 million is by far the largest investment the town has ever made in veterans or veteran services. Article 10 was unanimously supported by the Select Board, unanimously supported by the Affordable Housing Trust, was supported 5-0 by FINCOM, and is supported by VFW Post 1240 leadership.

Commander Patrick Burke from the VFW cannot be here this evening, but it should be noted that he has advocated tirelessly for all veterans, including the VFW, the American Legion, and the DAV, and provides his unwavering support for this article. With your support tonight, we have an opportunity to start the process to create 30 to 40 units of veterans' affordable housing in conjunction with providing a new fully ADA-accessible post that will allow services to support our veterans' community. Mr. Blonder, we hear you. We listen to you every year, and this is a great opportunity for the town of Swampscott and this body here to do right by its veterans. The master plan of the town, as well as the town's housing production plan, cite the need for the creation of affordable housing. The Pine Street project will focus on veterans' affordable housing.

Based upon conversations with our VSO and VFW leadership, veterans' affordable housing and veterans' services are much needed within the town, and we look forward to continuing to collaborate with all stakeholders of all veterans' organizations in the coming months. As stated previously, there is no request for public dollars this evening. The purchase price of the property is $1.725 million funded from ARPA, and it's important to stress that upon approval by town meeting, the town will make a $100,000 deposit, of which $40,000 is non-refundable, and will be applied to holding costs of the property owner, again using ARPA funds. The town will conduct all the required due diligence on the property, including environmental and geotechnical studies, and upon approval of town meeting this evening, we will have these consultants engaged and work towards positioning the property to close on or before July 17th of this year. This is a great opportunity, a once-in-a-generation type of opportunity that we, town meeting, have to show veterans of Swampscott, and quite frankly all veterans, that the town of Swampscott is serious in its commitment to truly supporting our veterans, as well as taking decisive action. That's Article 10.

Article 11 is obviously connected to Article 10, and again, was unanimously supported by the Affordable Housing Trust, the Select Board 50 by FINCOM, and is also supported by VFW Post 1240 leadership. The plan of this article is to allow the Select Board to issue an RFP and eventually select a respondent which will allow for the redevelopment of the combined property to provide affordable housing for veterans with a local Swampscott preference, as well as construct a new canteen and a fully ADA accessible area which will allow for considerable veteran services to be provided to our veterans community.

It's the intention of the town to work collaboratively and in conjunction with the Swampscott Affordable Housing Trust to work together on an RFP with the plan to issue an RFP in late summer, early fall, select a developer by October or November of this year. This is a tentative plan, and with the hope of seeking funding as early as January of 2024 for the construction. Our veterans have done so much for us as a country, and so much for us as a town, and now they need you, Swampscott Town Meeting, to provide your support by supporting Article 10 and Article 11 this evening.

[Speaker 1] (3:07:11 - 3:07:19)
Thank you, Mr. Grishman. Is there discussion? Questions on Mr. Schneider's article?

Ah, motion, I'm sorry. Mr. Blonder.

[Speaker 6] (3:07:34 - 3:08:27)
Jeffrey Blonder, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 2, Commander of the EF Gilmore DAV. At our most recent meeting, we conditionally support these two plans. The only thing is the DAV, the largest VSO, and I don't want to speak for the American Legion, but I know I've talked to them.

They've not been included in any discussion. We've not been part of anything. We do not know what's going on.

We definitely support the concept of veterans housing and a new veterans center, but we're left in the dark, and I just want to make sure that the town, when the plans do go, that the DAV and the American Legion are included in any discussion and any plans. We don't want to be left out. We want to be part of this community, and as of right now, we feel like we're being left out.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (3:08:28 - 3:08:33)
Thank you, Mr. Blonder. Further discussion? Questions.

Yes, in the back.

[Speaker 5] (3:08:42 - 3:08:43)
Hello. Hi.

[Speaker 4] (3:08:43 - 3:09:09)
Kate Green, Precinct 4. I had a question on, I think this is great by the way, but a clarification question on Article 11. It states that the property will be used for affordable housing with a preference for veterans.

Would that be Swampskate veterans first, or is there any sort of prioritization that's been thought about, or does that come at a later date?

[Speaker 1] (3:09:10 - 3:09:16)
I know there was a significant discussion the other night. Mr. Grisham, would you like to feel that, or I see Ms. Martin-Epstein in the back.

[Speaker 8] (3:09:16 - 3:09:20)
Yes, I would like to recognize the Chair of the Affordable Housing Trust, Ms. Kim Martin-Epstein.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:21 - 3:09:23)
Who spoke so eloquently at the Select Board, the other.

[Speaker 9] (3:09:37 - 3:10:49)
Hi. Kim Martin-Epstein, town meeting member, Precinct 3, and I'm the Chair of the Affordable Housing Trust, and we did speak exhaustively, thanks to a lot of really, really good questions about the concept of local preference, of veterans' preference. It's quagmired in some really mind-numbing federal fair housing law, which we're not going to talk about.

What I will say is, veterans' housing is a preference we can do. Right off the bat, we don't have to worry about being tagged for having fair housing problems. Local preference, the state recognizes a certain percentage that you can do right off the bat.

As local preference, we're obviously planning on doing that, because we're taking care of veterans, we're taking care of people in Swampscott. It's really very important. So when we say local preference, we know that we're going to be treading carefully so that we don't offend fair housing laws, but that obviously we're putting together a project that is designed to incentivize the most Swampscott residents, obviously first Swampscott veterans, and Swampscott residents who would otherwise be eligible for the affordability tiers that we target for this project.

[Speaker 1] (3:10:50 - 3:10:54)
Thank you, Ms. Martin-Epstein. I see, is that Mr. Driscoll?

[Speaker 31] (3:11:00 - 3:11:53)
Tom Driscoll, Precinct 6, Tom, meeting member. Really outside of my expertise, for sure. But my understanding, is this similar to an affordable housing under, like, a 40B type of proposition?

Because one of the things that within that law has always been confusing to a lot of people, is that affordability is kind of a sliding scale. It's affordability compared to the market rate of rent in the town of Swampscott. So I understand that this is affordable veterans housing, but is it really going to be affordable?

I mean, is it, I just don't know how that mechanism works, but it seems to me if it's 75% of the going Swampscott rate that close to the ocean, it may not be that affordable to our veterans. So if I could get some clarification on that.

[Speaker 1] (3:11:53 - 3:11:59)
Thank you, Mr. Driscoll. Ms. Martin-Epstein, I know you spoke at length at this the other night, so you should be ready to hand.

[Speaker 9] (3:11:59 - 3:13:41)
Ready. So, it's a great question. When we talk about affordable housing, we're talking about housing that's affordable to people who learn some amount of money less than what is considered the, let's just call it the median income or the average income of the area.

And just so that you understand, Swampscott is in the Boston, Cambridge metropolitan statistical area, and as such, the area median income is really inflated. So it's very high, as you know. So it's very easy to not be able to afford to live in this area.

So when we talk about the incomes that we're targeting for a project like this, we're talking about people who earn between, well, I would say we're going to end up targeting people who earn 60% or less of the area median income, which is a significantly low income category of people. And I don't have the numbers off the top of my head or what's considered the actual area median income, but suffice to say that targeting people, households, in this case, probably one- and two-person households whose income falls below the area median income will hit a significantly low target population. So, I mean, that's the goal.

When we write the RFP and when we ask a developer to respond, we're going to include the target income categories so that they understand that they're going to have to put together a budget that allows for that level of affordability.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:42 - 3:13:47)
Thank you. Certainly. Mr. Driscoll.

[Speaker 31] (3:13:48 - 3:14:07)
Tom Driscoll, Precinct 6. Okay, you got me there. I understand a little bit better, but can you tell town meeting approximately how many units?

I guess what I'm concerned is, and I'm using number, if there's five units provided for that's going to be done in this way...

[Speaker 9] (3:14:07 - 3:14:14)
All of them? The goal is for this to be 100% affordable project. Like Michonne.

Michonne is 100% affordable.

[Speaker 31] (3:14:14 - 3:14:17)
Can it be more than a goal and a requirement?

[Speaker 9] (3:14:17 - 3:14:25)
No, no. I mean, the requirement of the project will be as written in the RFP that it will be 100% affordable.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:28 - 3:14:40)
Thank you. Before I get to Ms. Driscoll, sir, go ahead, and then in the back. Oh, I'm sorry.

Didn't recognize you.

[Speaker 18] (3:14:41 - 3:16:53)
My name is Mike Sweeney. I'm the Director of Veterans Services for Lynn and Swampscott. Proud to say first time as a resident here.

What was discussed last night was the local preference, and so what that came down to, and I just wanted to make sure that we had kind of spelled that out. In town, in terms of the last census, we have 454 veterans listed on the census in Swampscott. So that's 3% of the population, which is less than Massachusetts, 4.2, but it's sort of Massachusetts is one of the lower states in terms of veteran population in the country. Within that 454 veterans, 80% are over age 60 or will be over age 60. I think next year was the date we chose, given the RFP, and 85% will be over 55. So I think when it comes down to the question we were asked last week was how many, if we did have a local preference, how many Swampscott veterans would get in, would be able to be eligible, and it's really, at some level, kind of, not to be cute about it, but kind of an unknowable number.

Out of those 270 or 260 people who are over 55 or 65, at any given time, you don't know if someone is ready, willing, and able to move in. As we all understand, life doesn't move that way in a plan. So I think that it is fair to say that and Kim is much more learned when it comes to the rules in terms of federal housing or fair housing, but I just want to be clear that for this population, it is a very small population you're looking at.

But again, we wouldn't be able to, I think it is a little it wouldn't probably be a good use of our time to start guessing what the income and asset level would be of those 454 veterans that are in town. I think it would be a mistake to assume there are any more or less affluent than the rest of the community, so I think maybe we could extrapolate some numbers, but unfortunately, there's no way to know, but having said that, that really was the, in terms of the veterans preference, I don't believe there's any, it doesn't impact that, just the local preference part of it. So, in case of any questions.

[Speaker 1] (3:16:53 - 3:16:59)
Thank you, Mr. Sweeney. There was one way in the back. Yes, no, I'm sorry, with the scarf.

[Speaker 28] (3:17:07 - 3:17:37)
Jan DiPaolo, Precinct 1. And my question is, so we find a developer that agrees to all of these terms. And what happens in terms of a year from after they do this, they sell it to someone that doesn't agree to any of these terms.

And then the veterans aren't in it, it's not veterans, they reduce the size of the VFW post within it. Do we have any guarantees that what we get is what we get and keep?

[Speaker 1] (3:17:38 - 3:17:40)
That's a fine question, Ms. Martin-Epstein.

[Speaker 9] (3:17:41 - 3:18:48)
One of the premises of doing a project like this is that the developer who comes in to do this is going to need to apply for multiple levels of state and federal assistance in the form of state subsidies, thanks to Jenny Armini's colleagues, which will be ample, and federal low-income housing tax credits, and any number of other soft debt and tax credits that will allow for this project to be financeable. Because they will do that, they can't get out from under these obligations. This is what they do.

The respondent to an RFP knows that they're going to have to put together a development budget that will use these resources, that will have obligations attached to them forever. In fact, we wouldn't be able to choose a developer to do this without knowing that they were of the ilk that can do a project like this and maintain this the way it's intended for the length of time that it's intended to be maintained, which is probably in perpetuity.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:49 - 3:18:53)
Thank you, Ms. Martin-Epstein. And just to the immediate right.

[Speaker 13] (3:18:59 - 3:19:06)
Marsha Dalton, Precinct 3. I just first want to say that I totally support the veterans.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:06 - 3:19:44)
I mean, my father was a veteran of forensic. However, my big concern is not about the veterans moving in. It's about the land where the building is itself.

There's a good chance that that land is contaminated. Stacey Brook runs right behind it. And we were wondering if there is contamination, is the town going to have to pay to clean that up?

And then the other concern the Pine Street residents have is that the water pressure is so bad already on Pine Street with 30 to 40 units. Will the DPW be able to come in and put in new pipes or anything like that?

[Speaker 1] (3:19:45 - 3:19:51)
So those are my questions. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Dalton. I did hear some conversation about the due diligence period, perhaps, Mr. Grisham.

[Speaker 8] (3:19:52 - 3:20:33)
Yeah, I just want to re-emphasize Ms. Dalton and to all members of town meeting that we're certainly, the town is certainly going to be conducting all required due diligence on the property. We're looking at environmental, we're looking at geotechnical, and upon approval of town meeting this evening, hopefully, we'll have these consultants engaged and we're going to work tirelessly towards positioning the property to close on or before July 17 of this year. So that's something that we're going to jump on immediately and we want to make sure that we're dotting I's and crossing T's and we have all of this information before the property would be purchased by the town for such purposes.

So we share your concerns.

[Speaker 1] (3:20:34 - 3:20:38)
And I'm not sure who would be qualified to speak to the water pressure question.

[Speaker 8] (3:20:38 - 3:20:40)
I am not qualified to speak to that.

[Speaker 1] (3:20:41 - 3:20:48)
I appreciate that self-identification. Gino, perhaps you could share a word.

[Speaker 6] (3:20:53 - 3:21:20)
Gino Cresta, town meeting member, Precinct 1, DPW Director. This is the first I'm hearing about water pressure problems on Pine Street. And I've been around for a while.

As most of you know, we take advantage of the MWI interest-free loan each year, so we're borrowing probably $500,000. We've been working on most of our transmission mains, but if I knew this was an issue, we'd make this somewhat of a priority, or at least move it close to the top of the list.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:22 - 3:21:48)
Thank you, Gino. Ms. Driscoll, do you still have a comment? And then Ms. DiCillo. Go ahead and use the podium, I guess, if we're having trouble.

[Speaker 20] (3:21:55 - 3:22:45)
Ann Driscoll, Precinct 1, town meeting member. I just wanted some clarity. I was involved very much with the 40B project at Elm Place, and the way that project was structured, Bruce Paradise retained ownership of the property when development came in, is planning to develop the property and lease back for the duration of that agreement.

I'm just wondering, in this particular situation, is it a similar thing where the town retains ownership of this property and a developer comes in and not only builds the property, builds the development, but also continues on providing management services, that kind of thing?

[Speaker 1] (3:22:46 - 3:22:48)
Sure. Ms. Martin-Epstein, you can comment on that?

[Speaker 9] (3:22:50 - 3:23:38)
Yeah, unless I hear from the select board. Otherwise, I think the structure is intended to be actually very similar to when the disposition of Michon took place, which is that the town was the owner of Michon and did a long-term ground lease to the private developer, private non-profit developer, who will retain what is effectively ownership of the project, and will make ground lease payments to the town. But otherwise, we'll own the project, own the management, own the service, manage the services, etc.

It'll be similar to Michon. I guess it will be similar to Elm Place in the sense that the developer will remain at Elm Place as well. The town's ownership of the property is in the background at the end of the day.

[Speaker 1] (3:23:39 - 3:23:41)
Thank you, Ms. Martin-Epstein. Ms. DiCello, did you have a comment?

[Speaker 4] (3:23:54 - 3:25:09)
I'm Mary DiCello of Precinct 4, and I also am a veteran of VFW, a new VFW auxiliary member. I would encourage the town select board to, there had been a town at some point, a town veterans committee, and I would, given the complexity again of the different boards and what's happened with the town, it would be, I think, a helpful thing to recreate that like a committee of the town. So it would be like we have the Harbor and Waterfront Advisory Committee, we have the Climate Committee, I think we need to have a select, recommended by the town administrator and approved by the select board to advise about what should go into this building because I think the design here is going to be really important, and you can't expect, I think, civilian people to be designing for people that are veterans and their families. They really should have a very active role in it.

[Speaker 1] (3:25:10 - 3:25:24)
So, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chillo. While that's not an action town meeting can take, you do have the chair of the select board standing here.

Is this something the select board can take up? You can't make a decision here, but is this something that you can foresee on the agenda?

[Speaker 8] (3:25:25 - 3:26:01)
Sure. This is absolutely something we can certainly take up for a veterans committee, and furthermore, just to this, it's not going to be the select board that is going to be designing this project. It's going to be the developer who is selected through the RFP process who is going to be designing.

Just to be clear, we look forward to collaborating with all of the stakeholders and making sure that the veterans organizations have a seat at the table. This is going to be something that is going to be a collaborative process between the Affordable Housing Trust, the select board, and the veterans organizations within the town.

[Speaker 1] (3:26:02 - 3:27:02)
Thank you, Mr. Grishman. Any further comment on Mr. Schneider's combined motion? Seeing none, all those in favor of Mr. Schneider's...

I'm sorry, did I miss somebody? Thank you. All those in favor of Mr. Schneider's motions for favorable action under Article 10, dropping the need to borrow and or appropriate, as well as the favorable action under Article 11 as printed. All those opposed? It is unanimous. Noting that Articles...

That was Article 11, too. That's correct. Noting that Article 12 and Article 19 are similar to Article 10 and 11, I'd be interested in a motion to either table 12 until we reach 19 or advance 19 to this point.

Do I see Mr. Dooley?

[Speaker 35] (3:27:05 - 3:27:22)
For considering Articles 12 and 19, both consider the future potential use of the Hadley Elementary School, I would motion to take up Article 12s and 19 at the same time, at the time we take up Article 19.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:22 - 3:27:25)
So your motion would be to table 12 until we take up Article 19?

[Speaker 35] (3:27:26 - 3:27:27)
Yes, Mr. Moderator.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:27 - 3:27:46)
Is there a second? Second. Any discussion?

All those in favor of Mr. Dooley's motion to table Article 12 temporarily? All those opposed? The motion carries.

That would bring us to Article 13, extending the use for Hawthorne-by-the-Sea. Ms. Dreeben?

[Speaker 13] (3:27:49 - 3:28:05)
Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Naomi Dreeben, Precinct 3, Finance Committee. The Finance Committee recommends favorable action on this article.

I move the recommendation of the Finance Committee.

[Speaker 1] (3:28:05 - 3:28:12)
Is there a second? So this motion language would approve the article as it is printed in the warrant. Ms. Dreeben?

[Speaker 13] (3:28:12 - 3:28:48)
Thank you. So last year we approved town meeting approved the use of the Hawthorne Anthony's Hawthorne-by-the-Sea until this coming December and we would like to extend it. The Finance Committee feels that it would be appropriate to extend it another year until December 20...

I think there's a typo in here. Until December 2025 the comments section has 2023 but we mean 2025.

[Speaker 1] (3:28:48 - 3:28:49)
I believe it's December 2025.

[Speaker 13] (3:28:51 - 3:29:10)
Right. You know how sometimes buildings are empty and then we don't use them and so we're not getting any benefit from them? We would like to avoid that.

So we'd like to have the Select Board extend the use of the buildings so that we still get the benefit of it until such time as it is repurposed.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:11 - 3:29:16)
Thank you, Ms. Dreeben. I believe Mr. Spellios, you have a couple of comments regarding the Select Board's point of view on this?

[Speaker 7] (3:29:35 - 3:31:47)
Good evening, everyone. Peter Spellios, member of the Select Board Precinct Town Meeting, Precinct 3. I want to just take a moment here to kind of reflect upon a presentation which I hope I might actually just say nothing and do the presentation tomorrow.

Don't you think it's a good idea? What I want you to know is the following, and tomorrow night we'll actually do this. We were going to have the town administrator get up to give you an update on seawalls.

We'll do that tomorrow night. We'll talk with the moderator so that you understand the current state of seawalls because that may be of interest to people. And so I wanted to have the moderator...

Hey, Sean, don't worry about it. We're going to do it tomorrow. And it's okay.

And then I also just wanted to let you know this, which is the best avenue for us is to keep that building occupied. Right? And with all the respect to the town meeting member that mentioned earlier about that we bought something shotgun approach not knowing what we're doing, we bought the Hawthorne because we decided engaging in a prolonged, if it had to be, public discussion about the future of that property that the whole community gets to decide was far better than having a single developer decide that 100 condominiums on that property was the right idea. So we're going to take that time, and we need the time from you and the blessing from you to allow us to continue to occupy that building. Transitioning that building to another use requires code upgrades and other considerations that can be costly here.

So the town administrator has... We're going to do it tomorrow, so don't worry about it. The town administrator has started conversations with the Hawthorne folks about extending the lease.

We're hopeful that that is the route that we take. Otherwise it may be another restaurant user, but either way your permission tonight is going to give us a two-year extension. The two-year extension on that time period is really important because we also want that restaurant user, most likely the Hawthorne, to be a partner with us.

If we don't give them a long enough leash, a long enough runway to know when they're going to be open, they're not going to be willing to make investments when things fail, and things often do fail. So by creating the two-year period, we're at least giving them a guaranteed two-year period where they'll be able to be in operations, make an investment in their staff, tell their staff what the lifeline and the longevity of the restaurant is going to be, and also make certain investments. Aside from that, I'm going to skip all of this, but you'll have to hear from Mr. Perry tomorrow.

[Speaker 1] (3:31:48 - 3:32:27)
So, we find ourselves at an hour. If there's an appetite in the body to have a discussion about this, to move forward to a vote on Ms. Dreeben's motion, or to accept a motion to recess until tomorrow at 7, I am interested in any of the above. Mr. Perry?

Is there a second? All in favor? All opposed?

This meeting stands recessed until 7 p.m. tomorrow.