[Speaker 6] (0:39 - 17:36)
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[Speaker 2] (17:52 - 36:11)
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Welcome everybody to the December 20th- 2023 Select Board Meeting. if the members of the Swampside Police and Fire Department could rise and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Speaker 16] (36:11 - 36:28)
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[Speaker 2] (36:34 - 37:08)
Good evening. We have a packed house this evening. We're going to skip the town administrator's report and public comment to start.

We're going to jump right into the new business with the swearing-in of seven new Swampscot Police personnel and the swearing-in of two new Swampscot Fire personnel. So this is a big night, Sean. It's a big night, Chief.

It is a big night.

[Speaker 1] (37:08 - 38:01)
David, certainly I want to welcome everybody. You know, this is an extraordinary night for us to really celebrate public service. I would like Chief Quesada and Chief Archer to come down and join us.

I'm sorry. Okay. We can start with Chief Quesada then and certainly talk a little bit about the importance of public safety and the sacrifices and the dedication that it takes to apply for a job and the importance of the family that surrounds individuals that dedicate their lives to public service.

This is a wonderful career, and Dr. Chief Ruben Quesada certainly can help us appreciate the importance of the moment.

[Speaker 7] (38:02 - 43:35)
Thank you. Thank you, Sean. I wrote something because I think tonight is very important for us, for our department, for our town, for our community.

And so if you bear with me, finally I get a mic, and so I'm going to use it. Tonight I'm incredibly proud to stand here today and introduce and celebrate seven extraordinary individuals. First and foremost, I want to thank our select board and our town administrator for allowing us to make this happen.

Without your support and assistance, we would not have accomplished this. This past hiring around, we set clear goals and objectives to find the most qualified, most diverse, and most well-rounded individuals. With the lived experiences that is greatly needed in today's law enforcement profession.

It's because of the exceptional men and women of the Swampscot Police Department that we not only met our goals, but we exceeded them, and we made Swampscot Police history. Thanks to their efforts, today our department is now comprised of 13% female, 16% Hispanic or Latino. We've hired our first African American police officer candidate in the history of the town and department.

And this adds, these individuals add to over 90% of our police officers having a higher education, with 70% with at least a bachelor's degree or above. I couldn't have accomplished this incredible feat with my team's commitment, dedication, and tireless effort. Their countless number of hours of scheduling, conducting interviews, and the background work that it takes to hire the right people was incredible to see.

If it were not for this group, my group, these individuals might not be here with us today. So thank you to my officers. While I wasn't here when we exited civil service, I'm ecstatic not to be bound by it.

Many of my police chief colleagues have met with a ton of challenges and snafus. Even the largest police departments in the Commonwealth cannot find the kind of formula for success that we found here. Judging by who I'm about to introduce to you tonight, you will see firsthand why they represent the future of the Swampscot Police Department and the town of Swampscot.

First off, I want to address these individuals who are being sworn in tonight. You are about to embark into the greatest and most noble profession in the world. Be proud of all that you have done to get here tonight.

While the nation faces a crisis in police hiring, we have never lowered our standards to meet these needs, and you're all proof of that tonight. You represent the best and brightest that our profession has to offer. While this road has not been easy, it is the first in a series of hurdles that you will accomplish.

Policing will not be easy. It will make you laugh. It will make you cry.

It will exhaust you. It will scrutinize, second-guess, and even bring into question your commitment. Never allow anyone or anything to bring into question why you choose to be here.

Also recognize that your future position is a symbol of public faith and trust. You must constantly and continually strive to achieve it. And most of all, you must protect liberty, equality, and procedural justice in serving all of mankind.

You are one of very few individuals in this world where your handshake, your warm embrace, your empathetic words, or that glimmer of a heartfelt gaze of compassion can forever be etched in the memory of those who have suffered great loss and devastating pain. You will see great loss, and you'll feel the overwhelming pain of those who need your assistance. But you will also see the hope in their eyes.

Individuals who you have touched embrace this hope, and every day you lace on those boots and you put on that badge, remember how that look that they gave you. That look will guide you through your career to hold your head up and continue to serve your community with the heart of service. Know that what you do makes a difference.

To begin, I'll introduce each candidate by name in alphabetical order, and I'll tell you a little bit about them and have them come up and say a few words and introduce their guests. So first up, I'd like to introduce Nicholas Cruz. Come on up, Nick.

I'll introduce each candidate, and I'll have them, after I do the introduction, I'll have them just say a few words. Nick was born in Boston but grew up in Lawrence, Massachusetts. He graduated with an AA degree in criminal justice from Middlesex Community College, and he comes to us as a lateral from Massport Authority and prior to that worked for Lawrence Police Department.

I asked him one of the interesting things that they like to do. Some gave me good answers and some gave me, eh. Nick likes to travel.

Eh. He was pretty vague. In attendance is his brother and sister-in-law, Roy, and Jessica Cruz.

Nick, come on up. Say a couple words.

[Speaker 19] (43:36 - 44:04)
I want to thank everybody for being here tonight. It's a humbling experience. I'm very excited, very ready to embrace all the challenges and obstacles that are coming, and I'm excited.

I just want to thank my friend, Justin, and Keith Selak, my former supervisor, which meant a lot for them to come over. And I look forward to seeing you guys going forward. Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (44:10 - 44:38)
Secondly, I'll call up Samuel Harrell. Sam, come on up. Come on down.

Sam grew up in Franklin, Massachusetts. He graduated with his BA in criminal justice from Westfield State University with a minor in history. Interesting fact about Sam is he and his brother are now in law enforcement.

In attendance is his mother, Lisa, his father, Stafford, and his girlfriend, Emily. Sam, congratulations.

[Speaker 22] (44:45 - 45:04)
Thank you for everyone being here tonight. I'd just like to thank the chief, John, and the whole town for giving me this opportunity. And I'd like to thank my family and my girlfriend for making the pretty far drive up here.

I know it's pretty tough, but I'm ready to be a part of this community, and I can't wait to get started.

[Speaker 7] (45:12 - 45:48)
Nicole. Next is Nicole McGee. Nicole grew up in Burlington.

She graduated with a BA from Sacred Heart University in economics and sports management. Interesting fact about Nicole is that she played four years of Division I ice hockey as a goalie at Sacred Heart University. In attendance tonight is her father, retired Mass State Police Lieutenant Paul McGee, his wife, Joanne, her brother, Burlington Police Sergeant Eric McGee, and her boyfriend, Trooper Chris Laverty.

Hope I said that right, Chris.

[Speaker 24] (45:55 - 46:10)
I just want to thank everyone for this opportunity. I'm really excited to start working here in Swampskate. Thank you to the board and the chief, and also mention thanks to Jenny, my best friend, who came in attendance as well.

Really looking forward to starting. Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (46:19 - 46:39)
Angelica Noble. Angelica grew up in Salem, Massachusetts. She graduated with a master's in business administration from Salem State University.

Interesting fact about her is that she likes to hike and ski, and she brought a lot of family and close friends tonight. Angelica.

[Speaker 23] (46:46 - 47:02)
Thank you to everyone who came out for this ceremony, and thank you to the chief who told me that I would not be speaking tonight, and now here I am. I work for the townhouse, so I'm excited to take my skills into this new role and explore all the different opportunities. Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (47:08 - 47:50)
Juan Pena. If you can see, I'm already getting them inculcated into being out of the comfort zone. Juan is from the Dominican Republic, but grew up in Jamaica Plain in Boston.

He graduated with a bachelor's in business administration from LaSalle. He comes to us as a lateral from Boston College Police Department, and as a reserve officer from the Winthrop Police Department. Interesting fact is that he always hated the topic of English in elementary school, and although you wouldn't know it, it's because it's his second language.

In attendance tonight is his wife, Andreana, his children, Jeremy, Evan, and Eleni.

[Speaker 14] (47:50 - 47:51)
Congratulations.

[Speaker 21] (47:57 - 48:17)
Again, I was not prepared to give a speech, but thank you to Chief Quesada, town administrator Fitzgerald. I just want to say thank you to my family for always supporting me in this new role, in this change. I do appreciate everything you guys do, and I'm excited to get familiar with the town and its residents and hit the road and start working.

Thank you, guys.

[Speaker 7] (48:23 - 48:54)
Next up, John Quesada. John grew up in Charlestown. He graduated with a B.A. in accounting from Merrimack College. Interesting fact about him is he's going to be very busy. He's expecting his first child in February. In attendance is John's parents, his siblings, and his girlfriend.

Congratulations, John.

[Speaker 17] (48:55 - 49:25)
Good evening, everyone. I also wasn't expecting to give a speech, but outside your comfort zone. I want to thank the town, especially Sean, everyone in the administration, Chief Quesada, the police department for embracing me this summer as one of their own, and everyone here in attendance.

It's a tough job they're going to take on, but with your support, I think we'll all be successful in the town of Swampstock. Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (49:30 - 49:57)
Next up, Brianna Sanchez. Brianna grew up in Bristol, Connecticut. She graduated with a M.S. in psychology from Southern New Hampshire University. Interesting fact about Brianna is that she's very creative at heart, whether it's tattooing, baking, painting, or interior design. In attendance tonight is her mom and dad, Jackie and Freddie Sanchez, and her younger sister and boyfriend and his family are here tonight. John.

[Speaker 20] (50:02 - 50:30)
I just want to take the time to thank everyone for being here tonight. I cannot wait to be joined by all of these men and women. It's been a long time coming.

I also want to thank my family for driving all the way from Connecticut. Especially in this line of career, it's very important to have a support system. I'm glad we each have our own separate support system, as well as our department and the fire department.

Thank you again, everyone.

[Speaker 7] (50:38 - 50:50)
That's it for the police department. I just want to say thank you. I cannot wait to see their contributions to our town and our police department.

They are the future of our department, and I look forward to working with them. Thanks again, everyone.

[Speaker 2] (50:57 - 51:03)
Thank you, Chief Quesada. With this, I'd like to call forth Chief Archer.

[Speaker 9] (51:13 - 57:06)
Good evening. Chief Quesada is always a tough act to follow. I feel kind of unprepared after him.

The fire department today is happy to be wearing our two newest members. I'd also like to, before I start, thank the members of the Swanscot Fire Department for overcoming their uncertainty when we left civil service. There were a lot of questions.

How is this going to work? Will it be successful? They've really buckled down to help make it be successful.

I'd like to thank Firefighter and Swanscot Firefighters Union Vice President Mike Fallsgiver. He's been right with me during the selection and interview process for two years now. We've continued to refine the process and learn from each other and really find out some of the best practices and best ways to do it.

We're really enjoying digging into this whole process. Working at the fire station is very much like a family. It's very much a family atmosphere.

You work long shifts together. They make the meals together. They work together.

They train together. They always say that you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. Well, Mike and I have kind of come to the conclusion that this is a lot like having the unique ability to choose your family.

When we do the selection process, alongside of the people's resumes and the specific ways they answer our questions, we're trying to look through that and just see, is this someone that we would like to have be a member of our family? Will they be a contributor? It really is a privilege to have that opportunity to do that.

So far, it has worked out astoundingly well. The now seven people that we've selected for our own process have all been terrific. There's no way to take anything away from the firefighters that were here before, but just the fact that we were able to direct the process ourselves and make the selections ourselves locally has really been exciting, and we're really enjoying leaning into the process and selecting the very best people to maintain the same high standard that we've had for a very long time in the Swanson Fire Department. So tonight, we're going to be swearing in two candidates, as I said.

The first is Santiago Garcia. Santiago Garcia, we interviewed a few months ago, and his enthusiasm really struck us. Come on down.

Santiago stressed to us his determination to be a firefighter. He said to us on more than one occasion during his interview that I will be a firefighter. Little did he know that he didn't need to emphasize that, because independently, all the people on the interview board had already decided that we were going to be taking him.

He was a very appealing candidate to us. He just exudes warmth, he exudes compassion, and he exudes the spirit of public service. We are confident that Santiago is going to be a fantastic addition to our department.

Tonight, along with Santiago, we are also going to be swearing in Jonathan Thibault. The Fire Department Administrative Assistant, Margaret Weil, has been instrumental in helping me pull together our selection process and make it even more efficient and professional. She and I had just started discussing what our next steps were going to be to fill our next vacancy in our ranks.

I think that was on a Friday. Sometime by Monday, I had received Jonathan had sent me a resume. Honestly, my first thought was that somebody on the Fire Department was pranking me.

It is such an extensive resume of experience in firefighting and emergency medical services. Jonathan has a Bachelor's in Fire Service Administration, a Master's in Public Administration. He's the first paramedic we've ever hired.

He's a Hazardous Materials Response Specialist, Technical Rescue Team. He's part of the Northeast Mass-Tested Technical Rescue Team. People say I could go on, but I honestly really could go on and on and on.

That is just the tip of the iceberg of the experience that Jon brings with him. He's going to be a Lateral Transfer from the Salem Fire Department, and he started his career in Nahant. He's ready to hit the ground running.

We've had a good amount of turnover in the last several years, and one of the things that some of the firefighters here are concerned about or will just lament to me about is the loss of experience that we're going to have with some of our senior members that are retiring and moving on or aging out. Jonathan's experience helps us bring a newer firefighter in, but that is not starting. We're starting with a little basic knowledge behind him, so he's going to be helpful.

We expect great things from Jonathan as well. So would you like to welcome him in?

[Speaker 1] (57:16 - 57:29)
Yes, at this point I would like to ask our town clerk, Jared Liberty, to come up and formally swear these officers in. Yes, we can have the police officers come down as well. We can swear everybody in.

[Speaker 9] (57:38 - 57:49)
Santiago's badge is going to be pinned by a friend of his, retired Captain Bill Brathwaite of the Cambridge Fire Department, who will do the pinning honors for Santiago Garcia.

[Speaker 10] (58:08 - 1:00:06)
I, state the name, Santiago Garcia, do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and will support the Constitution thereof. I, state the name, Santiago Garcia, do solemnly swear that I will obey the lawful order of my superior officers. I, state the name, Santiago Garcia, do solemnly swear and affirm that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me as a Swanscot firefighter to which I have been appointed according to the best of my abilities and understanding agreeably to the requirements of the Constitution and the laws of the Commonwealth and the rules and regulations as established in accordance with the charter and bylaws of the town of Swanscot.

[Speaker 27] (1:00:06 - 1:00:08)
The charter and bylaws of the town of Swanscot.

[Speaker 10] (1:00:08 - 1:02:32)
Congratulations. APPLAUSE I, state the name, do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to and will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and that I will fairly and equitably execute and enforce the laws thereof within the extent of my authority and jurisdiction. I, state the name, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me as a police officer of the Swanscot Police Department and I will obey and be bound by such rules and regulations as now or maybe from time to time established for the government of the Swanscot Police Department.

I, state the name, hereby accept the position of police officer in the Police Department of the Town of Swanscot, Massachusetts.

[Speaker 14] (1:02:36 - 1:03:34)
Congratulations. APPLAUSE I always thought you were a little serious.

[Speaker 4] (1:03:34 - 1:03:35)
Why?

[Speaker 14] (1:03:35 - 1:03:38)
You are all over the place.

[Speaker 26] (1:03:39 - 1:03:43)
Hey, Sean. Thank you so much for helping us. Why don't we just take a picture?

[Speaker 2] (1:03:50 - 1:12:59)
Yeah, we're going to take a two-minute recess so we can get some pictures. We'll be right back. SILENCE SILENCE SILENCE SILENCE All right, we're good?

Thanks, Joe. We're going to pick up our meeting and we're going to kick it over to Pete Payne for an update on the Hawthorne redevelopment concepts and police. Pete?

Great.

[Speaker 11] (1:13:02 - 1:14:06)
Thank you. So tonight we wanted to give an update to the Board and to the public as to the process for the Hawthorne revisioning process, which was kicked off after the Town acquired the Hawthorne restaurant property on Humphrey Street. The Town had engaged with HDR, our consulting firm, and that firm we have available with us tonight, who is going to give a very brief presentation just to kind of provide a synopsis of what we've done so far, what we've done for community outreach, some of the data that has been acquired, and then I will close us out to explain how we're going to be completing that revisioning process.

So if we can turn it over to Natalie from HDR. Natalie, you should be all set.

[Speaker 8] (1:14:07 - 1:15:00)
Yes, except I cannot share screen. I would need to have authorization to share my screen. Okay, but in my comment, I don't see the share screen is gray.

It's not an action. I can activate camera and microphone, but not the share. Okay, so Diane will be presenting the PowerPoint.

[Speaker 11] (1:15:01 - 1:15:04)
She'll go through the slides if you just want to let her know when to advance.

[Speaker 8] (1:15:05 - 1:20:47)
Okay, perfect. Okay, great. Thank you.

So, okay, and first, congratulations to the new firefighters. So this is a nice addition to the town. And okay, so this is kind of a, as Pete mentioned, a brief, you know, kind of a teaser of what will be kind of a conclusion of this process, but we're still in the making this.

And so our mandate was to basically, next slide, please, to build consensus around the share vision for the waterfront development of the Arthur and site. And if you go to the next slide also, and that was initiated by town exchange, the idea exchange meeting after the town had purchased the property and had brought us on board in December 2022. And the January 28 was quite an amazing event with more than 400 people attending.

And then we had in April, a revisioning workshop where we presented option coming out of the idea exchange. And during the summer, the town conducted survey and kind of a further stakeholder engagement. And tonight we're here to present like a kind of the key findings from the analysis.

And in January, that will be wrapped down, wrapped up in kind of the preferred options. Next slide, please. So basically, in compiling the different survey and all the different ideas we received, the strength of the site are the unique waterfront location, the Olmstead heritage as a part and its location at the heart of Swampscot.

Some of the weakness or maintenance is seen as an issue. Parking in the area was seen as an issue. And the different mode of transportation were not totally integrated at this point.

And also a more vibrant mainstream for civic activities day and night. So opportunities are the cliff and a boardwalk celebrating the rocks, the bay and the views and activity along Umfrey Street to support local businesses. We heard clear and loud that mostly a park was preferred alternative, but still finding ways to provide all year around activities for all people.

And it's an iconic visitor destination. Some of the threat were some of the site adapted to climate change, but also that the town with fiscal restraint in the sense of how much it will cost and what will be the impact. So next slide, please.

So what we're in the process of gathering at this point are the emerging vision for the site informed by the process and the analysis of the different surveys and feedback. Next slide please. So, our understanding at this point are that the key recommendation is to design an open space and to reserve at least 50% for green space to have a building to be part of the landscape and a program for year round use and day night activity.

And to implement goals outlined in the outline, sorry, in the 2021-2028 open space plan. It's also a celebrate the waterfront experience by maximizing the views, but also enhancing the experience of the waterfront as a promenade and provide for a harbor walk by the cliff edge. It's also to anchor the project in the community and by identifying synergies with other civic buildings and function within the town and create a public asset that will be used by resident and visitors with a civic function for residents of all age and year round and engage on free street in the site design.

There are opportunities to enhance accessibility by integrating multimodal strategies and to provide for a fiscally responsible project, allowing for option for special event to generate revenue for the town and also to factor in the operational costs in the design of the open space and the proposed building. So in a nutshell, this is where we are now. And we will come back in January with a kind of a summary of the design options and program element.

So I'll stop here if there are questions or comments. Thanks.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:49 - 1:20:50)
Thank you, Marilyn.

[Speaker 5] (1:20:51 - 1:21:13)
Questions, comments from the board? I guess I had one question. Back on this slide.

The timeline. It goes all the way out to 2030. Is that a conceptual numbering system or is that like literally we think this is a six year?

[Speaker 11] (1:21:14 - 1:21:33)
It's very rough, which is why there is like no dates built in for anything. Yeah, it's more like conceptually you could, depending on whatever the end vision is and the end recommendation, that could be about that, but we don't. We'll have a better feel of that timing when we present the final vision in January.

[Speaker 3] (1:21:40 - 1:21:51)
So how do you foresee this being presented in January? Like, what's the format? Are you just coming to a select board meeting and presenting?

Are we doing a forum? I mean, what's your current thought process?

[Speaker 11] (1:21:53 - 1:22:20)
Currently, we're considering a presentation to the select board that will then be available online. That will then be followed with a final report that gives further detail. But the main idea right now is the select board presentation.

We could certainly do an additional presentation afterwards that presents it to the community at a community event if the board would like that. Or an update at town meeting, actually.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:20 - 1:23:00)
We thought that if we have a presentation to the select board, we are currently planning on a special town meeting sometime in February. So it would seem to be a nice opportunity to update town meeting and get a sense of community input. I think we're also open to a broader community engagement opportunity.

We had 400 people at the original kickoff, and I think there's a great deal of interest. And I think having another event that allows us to really get input would be helpful.

[Speaker 5] (1:23:02 - 1:23:27)
One thing I noticed is that in the SWOT, you talk about Olmstead Heritage. But that idea doesn't, you know, maybe a little thing, maybe it's not, doesn't seem to carry through per se in the recommendations. That may have been kind of assumed or inferred, or is that some indication that that kind of like didn't kind of make the cut going to the recommendation level?

I don't know who I should be directing my questions to.

[Speaker 11] (1:23:28 - 1:23:44)
Natalie, feel free. But I would say it definitely doesn't imply that it didn't make the cut. But it is an element to that open space and that connecting to Humphrey Street, which is by connection the Olmstead District.

But Natalie, I don't know if you wanted to speak to that.

[Speaker 8] (1:23:45 - 1:24:43)
Yes, and I'm noticing this, and I think this is an idea, and I don't know if it's controversial or not, but it came a bit strong at the beginning. And then it was kind of diluted at the end, and there was like a different feel for it. And I'll go back to the analysis and the note just to confirm that we have a straight answer to this one.

But I think it shifts slightly priority, and we kept it there because it was very important, I remember, at the first workshop. But at the second workshop, we received kind of mixed feeling on that one. So it doesn't preclude from mostly a park.

And to go back to the notion of the very expended schedule, this is also to show that ideas or key concepts that are here part of this first visioning, there will be plenty of time to revise and adjust as ideas for the site evolves and get refined.

[Speaker 5] (1:24:45 - 1:25:17)
I think the last thing I'll say is I'm not sure how critical it is, given the kind of the height of the site. But in the context, keeping in mind that our kind of overall climate action plan and not necessarily building up lots of assets in a very vulnerable position, I don't really kind of see that per se reflected here, that thinking or caution or preparedness. So just to kind of draw a little attention to that.

[Speaker 11] (1:25:20 - 1:25:27)
I'll say we are definitely taking that into consideration for the final vision. Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (1:25:28 - 1:25:47)
So just as a matter of process and next steps, Pete Marzi, are you thinking you'd come back to us on the 17th of January? Or how can we schedule that and plan that out to take that next step?

[Speaker 18] (1:25:48 - 1:25:50)
Is that when the next meeting will be?

[Speaker 2] (1:25:50 - 1:26:05)
The first Wednesday would be the 3rd of January, which I don't think I would recommend having a meeting immediately after the holidays. So that would either put us to the 10th, which would be the second Wednesday, or the 17th, which would be the third Wednesday.

[Speaker 11] (1:26:06 - 1:26:18)
We're open to make the final presentation at your very next select board meeting. So whenever the board does have its next meeting, we will definitely be ready to be prepared for that.

[Speaker 18] (1:26:18 - 1:26:23)
And we'll work with HDI just to assure that we meet those deadlines.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:25 - 1:26:35)
And will you have financials attached to that final presentation as far as what the costs are going to be for that space or what that space will bring in?

[Speaker 18] (1:26:36 - 1:26:53)
So that was not part of the project. The scope of work for HDI at this point did not include the financial forecast. That would be something else that once we have a clear vision, then we can really develop a cost associated with it.

[Speaker 11] (1:26:54 - 1:27:30)
We may be looking at ways to provide some general anticipated cost ranges, per se, and then also identifying where some of those source fundings could be as well. So while we don't have construction documents to go and get an explicit dollar, we might be able to provide some general ideas of what site preparation might be or whatever the work could possibly cost. But a definitive cost we wouldn't be able to because we don't have construction documents or even schematics that we would be able to present.

[Speaker 4] (1:27:31 - 1:27:33)
When do the RFPs come in on Hadley?

[Speaker 1] (1:27:34 - 1:27:36)
Tomorrow at 4 o'clock.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:38 - 1:28:10)
So I guess following up on what Mary Ellen's saying, she didn't say it literally yet, but it seems then it's going to be kind of like a draft final vision, right? Because how are you going to, I hope you wouldn't be looking for us to kind of be approving something that is a beautiful vision and we really have relatively little understanding of the financial ramifications of what it would cost to build it and to operate it and what revenue streams and kind of chicken and egg type of thing, right?

[Speaker 1] (1:28:10 - 1:29:15)
Yeah, so I think we've conveyed initially like we don't want to limit our vision by dollars at this point. We actually want the best idea. And then we'll back into whether or not there's a financial feasibility for some of the grand visions that we can build consensus on.

And so the thought is that we're going to try to get consensus on an idea on how we use this extraordinary space and place and integrate it into a master plan for Swampscape. It's a big picture conversation and we're trying to narrow it down and get consensus. It's certainly not going to be a decision that the board has to make immediately.

This idea that a final idea, well, we're actually not getting to final until we actually go way down the pike and get funding to make a vision a reality. And so we're just trying to get to a consensus.

[Speaker 3] (1:29:17 - 1:29:24)
A draft final. But I think if I understand it correctly, HDR is providing its output from its process.

[Speaker 5] (1:29:26 - 1:29:26)
Okay, that's fine.

[Speaker 3] (1:29:26 - 1:30:13)
Yeah, but I think we have international consultants on board from their experiences to say, kind of based on these things, how do we, if I'm reading correctly, how do we meet all these objectives? Sometimes competing objectives, right? That can have a pull and push effect to them and have HDR say looking across the globe of ideas.

And this site, this is, we've kind of funneled it down to this general idea. And then how does it apply to Swampscope? Who knows?

And how do we execute it? Who knows really? But I think if I'm hearing this correctly, it's the HDR. It's really the stopping point right now for HDR to say, okay, Tom, this is what we think based on what we're hearing in our study of the property. It doesn't, it's just the consultant's feedback back to us, what they heard and what they have thought of in response and what they've studied in response.

[Speaker 11] (1:30:13 - 1:30:58)
And to Doug, your question, the way you phrase draft or even what we would call, it would be called a concept at this point. Because what you submit is the concept. It doesn't have the design details, doesn't have the schedule, the finish schedule or anything like that.

So you can't get to those stages until, like Sean mentioned, until there's consensus on the concept. Then that allows us to then move forward with, okay, now let's start to actually put together the final plans, those drawings that we can get concrete numbers. I shouldn't use concrete, but you know what I mean.

Firm numbers, but that gets us there. Yeah, it's a step towards that final. Thanks, Pete.

[Speaker 18] (1:31:00 - 1:31:04)
So we'll see you in January? Yeah. Yep.

[Speaker 11] (1:31:04 - 1:31:25)
Yeah, we'll definitely plan for the very first select board meeting. So as soon as we know what that meeting date is, if it's the third or the 10th. It's likely going to be the 10th.

Okay. Well, we're planning and we're moving forward regardless, even if it is the third we're focused on. But just keep us aware.

You bet, Pete. Okay. Thank you.

Pete, thank you, Margie.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:25 - 1:31:29)
Thank you, Margie. Margie. Nice sweater.

Nice sweater. Pete, where's your sweater?

[Speaker 11] (1:31:29 - 1:31:30)
Sorry, I failed.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:30 - 1:31:32)
That actually is an ugly sweater.

[Speaker 11] (1:31:33 - 1:31:34)
Whoa, wait a minute.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:35 - 1:31:39)
I need to talk to HR. Said with love.

[Speaker 4] (1:31:40 - 1:31:42)
Did he say he's going to report you to HR?

[Speaker 2] (1:31:42 - 1:32:10)
He did. All right. We're going to move on.

I know we have a few members of the public here. So I do want to open it up for public comment. Public comment is where members of the public can speak three minutes for something that is not on our agenda.

So if there are members of the public that wish to speak, raise your hand and step up to the microphone and name, address, voting precinct if known.

[Speaker 15] (1:32:24 - 1:33:25)
And I'm very happy that we've got some forward motion on Kings Beach. But now there's some ARPA funds that are still out there. And I know a lot of people or groups are trying to take part for their projects.

But I think it's important to consider the health risk for people swimming in the beach, which I think in many other projects may be more important to our general population in this town. The bacteria and the viruses can cause long-acting problems. Especially if this storm we had the other day was during the summer, it could lead to a lot of issues down the beach.

So I really would like to, and I'm not trying to hog all the funds, but I think if you can make a fair amount available to start the physical process, and this has been already a lot of planning done and a lot of looking at what needs to be done, but we need to really, as they say, cut bait and fish, really. And that's what we need to do. So I thank you.

[Speaker 16] (1:33:25 - 1:33:26)
Thank you, Arthur.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:33 - 1:33:34)
Ms. Lau.

[Speaker 13] (1:33:42 - 1:35:16)
Laura Lau, Outlook Road. I just wanted to comment on the hirings of the police. And I know I've spoken out previously about the gap of women on the force and the need.

And it was thrilling and exciting and, yes, overdue because they weren't there when they needed to be for other people. And that's unfortunate, and that was, and that's changed lives. So it's wonderful that they're there, and they will be for the future.

So thank you. And now to change the topic, I just want to ask, and I've said this before, for all of these public projects, there needs to be a set standard of how public projects, particularly a $7 million project, how many public meetings are held, how public meetings are held, how they are advertised, how they are attended, poorly attended, do we need to repeat them. There just needs to be some definitive guideline for these important projects to move forward.

And then people can't complain about the process if, like me, if the process is set. And that's just not happening. Thank you.

[Speaker 16] (1:35:17 - 1:35:18)
Thanks, Ms. Lau.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:28 - 1:35:31)
All right, we will move on to the town administrator's report.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:36 - 1:45:55)
Thank you, David. Tonight I'll be requesting the board's support for $30,000 in American Recovery Act funding to cover the contract for Pinnacle Consulting. This is the contract that we use to engage a hotel development firm.

Tomorrow we open up proposals from that RFP. And without support for these funds, we will have to fund this contract through the operating budget. This will place extraordinary pressure on a few consulting lines that we have in the budget.

Certainly we have any number of projects that we could use some of those operating budget dollars for that would help us advance projects that both the board and the town are prioritizing. So I think this gives us a chance to address the Pinnacle contract. And I would like to continue to discuss the broader OPA priorities at a future board meeting in January.

I certainly do not anticipate getting into that broader conversation tonight. You know, this is a really surgical use of a few of these dollars to help us advance a critical economic development project that we desperately need. And I'm sure that there's a great deal of interest in all those other dollars.

I am glad that we continue to discuss other priorities because we desperately need to get into those conversations. That said, you know, I'm thrilled about the hiring. I want to thank everybody that was involved in that.

But certainly Chief Cassata and Chief Archer have done an extraordinary job just getting this done during a time where it's almost impossible for any other community to do it. We've demonstrated that Swampstead can be successful, extraordinarily successful. And I'm not surprised.

So I really want to thank our legislative delegation, especially Jenna Amini and Senator Crichton, for their work to coordinate a meeting last week with the top environmental officials for the state of Massachusetts. You know, I had a chance to host Secretary Rebecca Tepper, the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs, and Undersecretary Stephanie Cooper, you know, Undersecretary for the Environment. We did a tour of Kings Beach and had a discussion at Swampstead Town Hall.

We talked about a number of strategies to expedite the cleanup of Kings Beach, but also, you know, some of the ongoing efforts to, you know, look at the UV treatment evaluation, outfall extension, pre-engineering, investigation, hydraulic modeling, near-term pilot of a disinfection with petric acid. This is a chemical that they use to actually, you know, address bleach or address bacteria that is an alternative to bleach and ongoing source elimination that both Lynn Water and sewer in the town of Swampstead are involved in. We did urge that we continue to get Executive Office of Environmental Administration, Coastal Zone Management, the Army Corps of Engineers, EPA and DEP all to continue to get together and prioritize how each of these agencies on a local, state, and federal level are going to address our responsibility to do more than just source elimination to address the environmental impact of public health.

The more state and federal dollars that we get for Kings Beach, the more we're going to be able to look at Fisherman's Beach and really all the other areas that we've identified through our asset management study that we funded that will help us address all of these critical issues that were left or ignored for decades. That said, our health department is coordinating testing of Fisherman's Beach for the penguin plunge, so we are going to go out there and test the water quality, but it's rain-dependent, so if it rains out a couple of days before, you have to just be aware that we will have source pollutants that will potentially be impacting water quality, so do not put yourself in danger if you have concerns about public health. We did post some information on our website on opioid settlement survey results.

This will be presented at the January 17th Florida Health. The goal is to look at regional public health boards and see where we can actually apply the most amount of dollars to help address mental health and addiction, especially at younger ages. Our finance team and the board of assessors and assessing team have submitted the paperwork for our 2023 taxes.

The rate has been set at $11.49. This year I have met with our board of assessors and staff and talked about the timeline. We are very late this year and certainly need to really go over expectations for how we meet critical deadlines for setting those tax rates so we can do our financial planning and really work with boards to ensure that we get this information about a month earlier. Capital Improvements continues to work with departments moving forward with the capital improvement plan.

Our senior center has been busy. Certainly pleased to announce that Sabrina Clopton has been promoted to assistant director for the senior center. Sabrina is a licensed social worker who is doing some exceptional work with our seniors and our community.

Really thrilled to see our senior center continue to really demonstrate so many innovative programs. We had a holiday party for over 80 with home meals delivered on January 6th. We have lots of public outreach programs.

We have a really fantastic art show at our senior center. Invite folks to come down and see some of these wonderful programs. We have a second annual caregivers conference March 23rd.

I attended this past year. This year the theme will be creating your aging healthy plan. Slomskit is getting older.

We're living longer but we're getting older with needs so please come down and participate. We also are applying for a new grant from MassDOT to get an electric van that has spaces for wheelchairs. It requires a 20% match so we'll be looking to the operating budget but perhaps if we are awarded we'll need to come back and think about funding at a special town meeting or annual town meeting.

Pleased to report we got a grant for a new public address system for the high school. This was something that was in our CIP. We received a $310,000 grant.

I want to thank our high school technology department and town facilities and our town police department for coordinating this grant. The library has been busy with programming. Gingerbread houses have been given out for free this month if anybody is interested.

Our 2023 circulation surpassed 2022's by almost 20,000 books. We have lots of activity with our maker space and our new teen space. Get down to our library and check out all the great things that we're doing.

We continue to have interviews for vacancies. I've done interviews not only for police officers and firefighters but for staff as well. I want to thank Pete and town staff for coordinating a lot of these busy responsibilities.

Our town clerk has sent our new plastics bylaw to the Attorney General. This will be approved within 90 days. We're mailing out the census.

The presidential primary is March 5th. Jared is digitizing data to make it easier for people to access documents without having to come into town hall. At the last meeting, a select board asked that applications for policy for one-day liquor licenses be put on the website.

Staff have worked together to actually add links to the website. I've been meeting with a number of developers that have been looking for applications for liquor licenses. This will certainly aid us in our ability to get those applications in the hands of folks that want to make investments.

On Humphrey Street, Lynn Square and other areas that we really need those economic development activities. I want to thank Danielle and the rec department for all the wonderful things they did to coordinate a holiday festival this past weekend. We had Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus and her minis at town hall. We sold out of just about everything. It was the first year of a horse and buggy ride that we had lines around the corner for. Lots of fun.

We have even bigger ideas for next year. Stay tuned. Last but not least, we have switched from our community notification system, Blackboard, to Onsolve.

I'm encouraging everybody to sign up at swampscotma.gov backslash subscribe or go to our town Facebook page. Get your updates about Swampscot because we are busy. You don't want to miss out.

Thanks, Sean. Questions from the board?

[Speaker 4] (1:45:56 - 1:46:32)
I have a couple questions. Also, I have a couple comments. I thought that that holiday parade was amazing.

We have a lot of our neighbors. Everybody runs down to the corner of Marshall and Humphrey. We got the vote for the best parade ever.

I also found out that the police department that are not, police officers that are not on the regular shift come down. I guess the police department puts on that parade and they volunteer. Police officers are volunteering putting that on.

It was just awesome. I really appreciate it.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:32 - 1:46:35)
It's getting better and better. Wait until you see what happens next year.

[Speaker 4] (1:46:36 - 1:46:36)
All right. Cool.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:37 - 1:46:40)
I might have to recruit you. Recruit you.

[Speaker 4] (1:46:40 - 1:47:22)
Maybe we'll make it float. Yeah. And I do want to just, as liaison to the board of assessors, I do want to address the lateness, which they're addressing, because they get the information from Patriot Properties the first week of November.

In their last meeting, they did speak with Patriot, and they're going to set a date to get the information prior to, so they're going to have a different timeline. I have a question under Kings Beach. I've been requesting the asset management report, and I'm just wondering when is that going to be finished and why is it taking so long?

[Speaker 1] (1:47:22 - 1:47:58)
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure why it is taking so long for them to finish. I think they're just trying to be as diligent as possible. It's a big system, and as soon as it's done, we'll post it to the website.

There's no reason why we wouldn't just get that out to the universe. There's no secret in there other than it's a big project. It's a complicated contract, and we want to make sure that they're as thorough as they can be under the scope of the contract.

Gino is, I think, responding to your request and has let you know that as soon as we get it, we'll get it to you.

[Speaker 4] (1:47:58 - 1:48:03)
Yeah, it just seems like they gave their report, and it's been, I think, four months.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:03 - 1:48:04)
Understood.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:04 - 1:48:18)
Also, whenever we're having meetings with state officials and people like that to look at Kings Beach, could we know a little bit in advance so that if there are select board members around that they could jump in there and attend?

[Speaker 1] (1:48:18 - 1:49:20)
These are complicated meetings, and to be candid, I always want select board members to be part of some of these meetings, but to have a posted meeting of a board of select, if I have three or four select men, that's an open meeting issue, and frankly, we're discussing policy issues. We're discussing all sorts of administrative day-to-day responsibilities, and frankly, there may be opportunities to have some of those meetings, and I'm happy to try to schedule those types of meetings, but these are meetings that literally popped up on my calendar through the coordination of a number of legislative officials, and they specifically told me I had a limited number of people they wanted in the room, and so I had to kind of respect their wishes.

I'm not coordinating these meetings. I'm asking for them, but I have to work with stakeholders about how they get coordinated.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:20 - 1:49:33)
Well, when I looked to see who was there, and I noticed that there's a councilman from Lynn and a good amount of people from Lynn. I would like to see some select board members there.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:33 - 1:49:38)
Doug Thompson was there, and so Dave Grishman was invited to be there.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:39 - 1:49:48)
I'm good with that. I just want to know, and then where are we with the committee? What is our target date on that?

[Speaker 1] (1:49:49 - 1:50:15)
So I met with David today. We talked about getting a couple of the select board members together to work with me and go through the resumes and applications sometime over the next two weeks and come back at our next meeting and have a conversation about appointing that committee. So I think, frankly, Doug would be great.

And if Doug and David are available, I think we could come back to the board at our next meeting. Happy to.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:17 - 1:50:19)
Because that's closed now. Everybody should have had all their – okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:20 - 1:50:28)
All the board members have the applicants, and I think we'll be in a good position to get the committee up and running.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:28 - 1:50:32)
That sounds good. That's it for my questions. Thanks.

[Speaker 16] (1:50:34 - 1:50:35)
Doug, Peter?

[Speaker 3] (1:50:36 - 1:52:02)
I just want to thank you, Sean, for the work that you put in to lead to tonight's swearing in. The swearing in is just the ceremony, but a lot of work behind the scenes with the chiefs, with the departments, and thank the departments because the departments put a lot of work in this as well. And the transition out of civil service is challenging because it's new and it's different, and new and different is something that we all can have trouble adapting to.

But each one of those cadets or officers or firefighters thanked us politely, but to be honest with you, we should be thanking them just like we're thanking the police department and the fire department and the chiefs and you for believing in our community and believing in this opportunity, and they are our community. And so I'm grateful for the effort. You sit here at many meetings sometimes being criticized and sometimes maybe it's fair, but what's certainly fair is you are directly the impetus of so much of this and the change that Maura Lau spoke about.

You have been, from the moment you walked through the doors seven years ago, you have been saying this and working towards this, and tonight was a great next step. So thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:03 - 1:53:13)
Thank you, Peter. I look at all the faces of these individuals, and there's not one of them that would have been hired under civil service, and I don't want people to miss that. Not one of these individuals would have made it to that microphone.

And I think about 20 or 30 or 40 years from now when their children and others look at these individuals and think, me too, me too, and that's such a point of pride for this town. If Swampskate can do this, every other place can do it, and we should let the world know it's time to change, and I can't wait to see how extraordinary these individuals will be as we move forward. But, yeah, it's great, and I thank the board.

None of this would have happened without the vote of town meeting, so there's a lot of people that should actually recognize their responsibility for making change that is needed.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:15 - 1:54:08)
Thanks, Sean. I guess a couple quick things about King's Beach, Fisherman's Beach. First of all, since I was at that meeting with folks from Lynn and Swampskate, I mean everyone should know that Sean did a fantastic job kind of being master of ceremonies there and really kind of coordinating things.

Representative Dan Cahill was also really kind of maybe the master master of ceremonies there. Shop dress guy. Yeah, that was an outlandish suit, yes, for sure.

Great, great outlandish. So there was a lot of very positive feedback. I'm not sure, maybe I missed you recounting that here, but good positive feedback from the secretary and undersecretary there.

We have things that we owe them, right, in terms of getting some detailed questions.

[Speaker 1] (1:54:08 - 1:54:55)
We actually sent a letter late this afternoon. I'm sorry I didn't update the board on that, but the town drafted a thank you letter. We sent it off to the mayor.

The mayor sent it off to the legislative delegation that included the town's answers to questions that the DEP had on ultraviolet lights, the update on the town's opera appropriations that the board had voted, and detailed scope of work for ultraviolet light and these proposals that we have for workholder engineering and another consultant to look at the symmetry and hydraulic flow through the pipe.

So we sent them a big, huge packet and said, give us a hand.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:55 - 1:55:20)
Right, great, because I think kind of the upshot was like we need to get them that information, and the next step is kind of a detailed kind of engineer-to-engineer conversation with DEP, EPA, the Alphabet Soup, and us, and Lynn, and everything else, right? So that's kind of the next big kind of hopefully progress step of funneling into the complementary strategy to IDDE source elimination, right? I like that phrase.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:21 - 1:55:22)
Complementary strategy, yes.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:23 - 1:55:36)
So I've talked to you offline about this in terms of the timeline for doing the IDDE and source elimination and how it seems like just it's hard to understand why it takes 15 months for us to get through design.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:36 - 1:55:54)
The sooner the better, and I appreciate your concerns, Doug. I hope that you keep kind of – Nudging, lovingly. The sooner we do it, the better, and I will ask my team to escalate schedules.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:55 - 1:56:45)
Maybe there's a darn good reason. There's no way for it to be better. It would just be good for transparency for everyone to understand why it has to be the way it is.

Sure, sure. And so, I mean, we do have the 2.1 on the agenda tonight. I'm not really sure what our intentions are there.

I know. It ain't going to happen as far as I'm concerned, unless it's part of a broader package. So I respect the concerns that people have.

I do want to just reiterate the facts as I understand them about fishermen, which is that the outfall, in the outfall, had crazy bacteria levels. Every test in the water, where people generally swim and everything, has always been under the level, except for one, over the last few years.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:45 - 1:56:57)
Except for one very wet, rainy day prior to the test. And so, generally, fishermen in the water has been below the threshold for an unsafe beach.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:58 - 1:57:11)
Which I'm not saying means that everything's hunky-dory or anything, but I just don't want people to be unnecessarily kind of concerned, based on the testing we have. It's also important to understand that we don't test over there. We don't test over there, absolutely.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:11 - 1:57:21)
I just want to make sure that we don't test there. But we do swim there, we do paddleboard there, we do a lot of stuff over there. We don't test, so we don't know.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:21 - 1:57:21)
Correct.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:22 - 1:57:49)
We also, you know, we do a test and we get the results 24 to 48 hours later. And so, it gives people a false level of confidence that somehow we're out there testing immediately with a vial and say, oh, jeez, you know, there's the level. It goes to a lab.

And so, you know, we can try to give people a sense that, yeah, we're getting close, but it's not exactly science.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:52 - 1:57:55)
So I think that's it.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:55 - 1:58:21)
Okay. Thanks, Doug. I just want to make a point.

Like, we're better in all these meetings when I have the leadership of the board. I don't want a board member to think that I would never want board members to be part of, you know, some of the leadership responsibilities we share. I just, you know, I appreciate the fact that I, every once in a while, I have the ability to have a select board.

But it's, you know.

[Speaker 5] (1:58:23 - 1:58:23)
Just not too often.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:24 - 1:58:53)
You know, there are times where it makes more sense. It's just, I think you just have to understand. Like, you know, there's a day-to-day, too, that I have.

And I, you know, when I'm meeting with these legislative or these state officials, like we're working on the day-to-day responsibilities of governance. And it's different when electives meet. They act differently.

We act differently. It's just different when you're in the room. And so, I can get into more of that later.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:55 - 1:58:58)
Yeah. Probably later is better. You're right.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:59 - 1:58:59)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:00 - 1:59:09)
Thanks. All right. We'll move on to a discussion and possible vote on reducing the required membership for the Solid Waste Advisory Committee and the Commission on Disability.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:13 - 1:59:37)
So, I'll start with the Commission on Disability. They currently have seven. And the chair and the committee is requesting to reduce it down to five.

It had, you know, it's difficult having seven. It's difficult to having a quorum. And the five seemed to work really well.

So, that's the request to reduce that down to five.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:38 - 1:59:43)
I have no additional questions. So, we're all five. How many people are currently appointed to the Commission?

[Speaker 4] (1:59:44 - 1:59:44)
Five.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:44 - 1:59:47)
There's currently five people. So, there's two vacancies.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:48 - 1:59:48)
Right now.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:48 - 1:59:58)
And there's some, if I recall correctly, there's some statutory required positions on the Commission. And so, how does— I think it's the percentage.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:01 - 2:00:20)
I forget off the top of my head, but the committee that you have right now are within those statutory rules. I think it's—I don't know the exact number right off the top of my head. But it has to be, I think, 80 percent has to have a disability or related to somebody with a disability.

[Speaker 2] (2:00:21 - 2:00:24)
And we would need that required?

[Speaker 4] (2:00:24 - 2:00:26)
We have 100 percent. We're 100 percent. Got it.

[Speaker 2] (2:00:27 - 2:00:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:30 - 2:01:10)
So, I just—I don't, per se, have any objection to this. But we don't really even have a—I'm sorry if I missed it in this packet that we got tonight. But I don't think I saw anything that tells me what the makeup of, like, not the people, people I get.

It's more about making sure, because I don't recall the standard being that, just that. And I don't—I apologize. I don't remember the standards.

But I just want to make sure that we're— So, you want to just put it on the next— Yeah, I just—I mean, again, no substantive objection. I just want to make sure, because those standards are put there to make sure there's representation of different disabilities. And I might be misremembering as well.

I just don't want to get it wrong.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:11 - 2:01:55)
Yeah, I think you're right. I will tell you, every community I've worked in, the Disability Commission struggles with quorums. It's just—unfortunately, the individuals that we need on those committees do have more challenges at times.

And it ebbs and flows. But we have to be sensitive to the reality that that committee, unlike others, is going to be challenged. I do think that with Zoom and with Teams and with online meeting opportunities, that committee will be much more able to be more representative.

But we've got to kind of think about how to ensure that the business of the committee can get accomplished.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:56 - 2:02:14)
So if it's better for everybody that we just turn around and look up that statute— I mean, right now we're—it's a challenge meeting the quorum all the time and getting work done. But we can do whatever works.

[Speaker 5] (2:02:15 - 2:02:28)
I mean, I'm comfortable saying that as long as we're—we could do a vote right now and say as long as we're in line with what the requirements are, as long as the five meets that requirement, then we're covering ourselves.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:28 - 2:02:47)
Or we can just wait two weeks and— I'd be comfortable with taking the vote and ensuring that we're in compliance. I'm taking your word, Mariel, on that. We've got to cover— Yeah, I want to make sure they can meet the quorum, meet the obligations, and conduct the business of the town.

[Speaker 5] (2:02:48 - 2:02:56)
Okay, so then— And it sounds like if the committee is recommending it, you would think that it's covered. But, you know, it would be with that caveat, right? Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:02:57 - 2:03:08)
Is that a motion? So can I—so I'd like to make a motion to change the Disability Commission from 7 to 5.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:08 - 2:03:09)
Do I have a second?

[Speaker 4] (2:03:10 - 2:03:18)
Second with— With the caveat that we're within the—with the standards for Disability Commission.

[Speaker 16] (2:03:18 - 2:03:25)
Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye.

Opposed? I'm abstaining. Thanks.

Okay. Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (2:03:34 - 2:03:42)
Okay, thank you. We'll move on. Discussion and possible vote on reducing the required membership for the Solid Waste Advisory Committee.

Mariel?

[Speaker 4] (2:03:42 - 2:04:22)
We're not looking to reduce the membership. We're looking to make a change in the membership currently. The Solid Waste Advisory Committee has a voting member of a select board member.

The DPW and the Director of Health. So the request is to change those three from voting members, putting in residents as voting members. And instead, the select board member would be a liaison.

And the Director of Health and the DPW Director will be there on call. I sent this to Diane, but I didn't actually copy myself.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:23 - 2:04:24)
I see it. You sent it to me on December.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:26 - 2:04:30)
So those directors would be there on call at their request of the chairman.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:33 - 2:04:35)
Any issues with SWAC having a forum?

[Speaker 4] (2:04:37 - 2:05:16)
Can you give me a— They—they—let's see now. It's not a walk in the park because what you have is you have a select board member who might be having multiple meetings during the week and it's tough to jump in there. And then you have the director—you have the DPW who has to sit there for a few hours after being out working all day where he could give an update in advance.

And then you also have the health director who's just worked all day. So they can—if you remove them as voting members, it just makes it a little bit easier because then you also have three additional people that can be used for working committees. This is a real work—this committee works a lot.

[Speaker 14] (2:05:16 - 2:05:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:17 - 2:05:22)
So taking those three—getting three members that can do a lot of work would really help them.

[Speaker 5] (2:05:23 - 2:05:30)
Understood. And the three people being removed and the committee, this is their—everyone agrees this is the right move?

[Speaker 4] (2:05:30 - 2:05:35)
Yes. And also to change the terms. Right now the terms are once a year.

[Speaker 14] (2:05:35 - 2:05:35)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:35 - 2:05:49)
What we do every year. So it would be to change the terms three people for 2026, three for 2025, and three for 2024. Is that— To offset everything.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:50 - 2:05:51)
Do we have those?

[Speaker 4] (2:05:52 - 2:05:53)
I sent that.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:53 - 2:06:04)
Can I just ask—I'm sorry. I'm just going to express frustration for a second here. I'm looking at my packets.

I'm trying to get really smart about everything and wondering why didn't I review this ahead of time and why am I being sloppy because there's nothing for me to review.

[Speaker 4] (2:06:05 - 2:06:06)
I sent it.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:06 - 2:06:43)
No, no. I'm just saying this is a hard—I'm not—my frustration was not at all to you. I'm just saying, again, I just—I want to be thoughtful in these things and, you know, it's just— I hear you.

I hear you. I don't know who we're talking about. I've lost track of the counts because I'm not as familiar as you are with the facts, and I really appreciate you are very diligent with your roles, and I do appreciate your— I'm just saying it's very hard for us.

You guys keep going, but I'm just working to catch up, and it's hard to vote on memberships, especially a 10-committee, 10-person or whatever. How many people there are?

[Speaker 14] (2:06:43 - 2:06:44)
Nine.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:44 - 2:06:56)
Nine, but staggered dates, knowing that we're doing the staggered dates right, and we're doing all the things when there isn't, for me anyways, a single piece of paper in front of me that tells me anything. So I trust that we're doing it right, but I don't think we should have to trust it.

[Speaker 5] (2:06:56 - 2:07:11)
I think we should be able to see it. I agree, and I think we had a similar situation with climate action last time, which we punted on because we didn't have the details about— We do tonight. We do tonight, right?

So I think in that same vein in this one, I'd actually vote for punting this until we know.

[Speaker 3] (2:07:11 - 2:07:13)
Yeah, I'm good with that. And I'm not sorry.

[Speaker 5] (2:07:13 - 2:07:15)
I'm good with that. I'm not trying to be difficult at all.

[Speaker 3] (2:07:15 - 2:07:17)
No, no, I'm— Just so we know who— I'm good with that.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:17 - 2:07:21)
I mean, we have this information. We can put it in the packet.

[Speaker 14] (2:07:21 - 2:07:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:21 - 2:07:24)
We will get to it. I'm supportive of that. That's fine.

[Speaker 14] (2:07:24 - 2:07:25)
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 16] (2:07:26 - 2:07:27)
Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:27 - 2:08:05)
All right. Discussion and possible vote on $2.1 million in ARPA funds. Sean had mentioned in his town administrative report this was not going to be— this was not contemplated to be a comprehensive request.

It was simply to engage the board's support for $30,000 in American recovery funds for the contract for Pinnacle Consulting Group, who was engaged for an approval of the Hadley RFP hotel concept, of which we're going to have responses tomorrow.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:06 - 2:10:35)
Yeah, so can I—do you mind? We've heard Sean, but do you mind if I speak to it a little bit? Go ahead.

I just want to speak about Pinnacle's role for us, right? We're blessed with various members and staff and other people who have different backgrounds, but really what Pinnacle has been providing to us is a very niche expertise relative to the financial quality of prospective respondents and their not just reputation but their track record in execution and has provided us with great access to be able to get very deep into the market. You guys certainly recall prior select board meetings or town meeting where I got up and I said, I don't know if we're going to get a single bid, right?

The market's really tough. It's a very tough capital market where, you know, just because it's a good idea or that we want to do something doesn't make it happen, right? And so we were really able to use Rachel Rudzinski—use is not the best word, but employ her and her expertise and her team's expertise, and they have been there every step of the way.

And there is, you know, I think they are absolutely critical for this next step. They've been critical to now, but now I just want to share with this board that they are going to be not making the decisions, that this board makes the decision, but they are going to be able to at least give a professional assessment of financial quality and the subject matter expertise. And then we, you know, obviously from there we take it.

But we don't have another resource that provides that information, and I think it would be folly for us to try and replace that with, for example, my laymanship on that topic because I don't know hotels in that respect. So I just encourage us to do it, and I think if I understand from Sean, I asked Sean previously about other sources, and so I have had a conversation with him about why this. And so I understand the strain it presents, and this is an appropriate kind of, in my view, one-time consultant as opposed to that.

So when the time's appropriate, I would make a motion on it. Thanks, Peter.

[Speaker 5] (2:10:36 - 2:11:27)
Additional questions, comments? I'd be happy to have a conversation about the entire 2.1, but we've had previous conversations about doing little bits here and there, and that didn't fly before, so I'm not really sure why it flies now. Given the fact that we, as I understand it, we actually do have the money in the operating budget to cover what we owe currently, it seems to me that that would be the right course of action if that's an urgent need for us to do that, if we're not going to have a conversation about the entire 2.1. So like I said, I'm ready, willing, and prepared to talk about the whole 2.1, but I'm not on board with $15,000 or $30,000 for this or that or the other thing piecemeal.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:27 - 2:11:36)
Yeah, well, we can't talk about the 2.1 because, you know, well, we can't tonight vote 2.1 because you know there's liabilities that are potentially being taken with some of these funds.

[Speaker 14] (2:11:36 - 2:11:36)
There's ways to deal with that.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:37 - 2:11:54)
I'm just saying that it's just disingenuous, though. I'm just being honest about the fact that making people believe that we're in good faith in a position tonight to actually talk about spending $2.1 million because there are other things that are in play that we're not going to discuss tonight, but the town's in the middle of a couple things that would do it.

[Speaker 5] (2:11:54 - 2:11:55)
And there are ways to deal with that.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:55 - 2:11:56)
Well, not tonight there isn't.

[Speaker 5] (2:11:57 - 2:11:58)
Yes, there are. Do you have your opinion?

[Speaker 3] (2:11:58 - 2:12:28)
No, I understand that. And so look, we have – I'm not worried about the outstanding invoices. Fine, he can have operational money to do those things, but we don't have a way to incur further expense.

What we will receive as a town from the hotel RFP will be, in my view, not worth the paper it's printed on if we don't have the professional expertise. So, Sean, if we don't have the vote, you've got to figure this out. But, again, I think that it's – you've come and you haven't asked for anything else on this.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:29 - 2:13:55)
So, again – So, for me, it's about protecting the operating budget so that we can actually do more of those things that, frankly, we need a little bit of help for while we kind of figure out how to use the additional 2.1 and have that bigger conversation. I get the concern about kind of linking a few of these things, but I would just ask that we not link this and we just look at this project and try to use our best efforts to carry forward a consultancy that really is bringing us to a brink of something extraordinary and not put pressure on an operating budget. Like the consultant lines that we have in the town's select board budget or the town administrator's budget are peanuts.

I have to cobble together all of these budgets, and I can't reimburse them later. Once we spend it, you can't reimburse it with OPERA funds. And so this is a unique opportunity, and I would just encourage the board to support this recommendation and help us be prudent.

This is a prudent request to help ensure that our operating budget can last over the next few months for all these other things that the board and the town are no doubt going to have desires to do.

[Speaker 4] (2:13:57 - 2:14:20)
So my turn. If you look at the operating budget right now, there has been some significant savings in the operating budget. We haven't had a planner.

So we've got certain savings in that budget, so I don't see any reason why we need to go to the OPERA money. Why don't we just...

[Speaker 1] (2:14:20 - 2:15:30)
So I can't transfer money out of a planning budget, you know, as well as anybody. There are 65 line items of control in the operating budget. I literally, all these line items are like little lockboxes, and I can't transfer any money out of these line items until I meet with the finance committee and the select board at the end of the year to help address issues.

If we don't have money in these line items, we can't do things. And so when you come back and ask me to help with a project or support something that would be really important, it's only $1,000 or $1,500 that you want to have supported, we're not going to have those dollars there because we're going to have to use them for a contract that we actually engaged in in July, six months after we put the operating budget together, three months after it was approved at town meeting. We actually engaged in this contract after we had a budget approved, and that's okay, but, you know, we have to kind of figure out how to address it, and we have a vendor that deserves to be paid.

So let's, you know, let's...

[Speaker 4] (2:15:30 - 2:15:32)
What would we do if we didn't have our fund money?

[Speaker 1] (2:15:32 - 2:15:59)
I'd use the general fund budget. I'm asking you to help me not rely on the general fund operating budget, because I believe that you will ask me to help use that budget to accomplish any number of things that you will want to do over the next few months. I do think we use these budgets together.

These are things that we do together. There are things, Doug, that you and I have talked about that I actually, you know, would like to use that budget to help support.

[Speaker 5] (2:15:59 - 2:16:11)
I'm really confused, Sean, because I asked you about this, you know, in advance, and you said it wasn't actually something that was important to actually decide tonight, and so now I'm really confused that you're really pressing for it to be decided tonight.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:11 - 2:17:00)
The 2.1, yes, I thought we could have that broader conversation later. The $30,000 is something that I think we should decide tonight. I'm making a – and I don't typically do this, but I'm making just a strong recommendation here.

It would be prudent for us to apply $30,000 of these APRA funds to the pinnacle contract and ensure that we pay the $15,000 for the work that they've done to date but also have the $15,000 available for the review and the support for the proposals that I believe we will get tomorrow. And I think you're going to want to – we don't even have some of those funds available, so you're going to have to really – you know, we're going to have to think about where we get some of those dollars.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:00 - 2:17:13)
Well, to be clear, you have funds to pay the invoice – the cost incurred. It's this next segment, which is phase two. You don't want to use it.

I understand that. I'm just being clear. But you don't want to because you know there's other pressures or other things coming along.

I hear it.

[Speaker 1] (2:17:13 - 2:17:53)
I'm just going to be clear, though, that we're – And the other thing, you know, to get back, like I've said this previously. In a previous committee, I put $50,000 in contract, and that number was a surprise to folks in the Finance Committee when I got – I was like, things come up, and if you're part of a busy town and you're doing busy things, you need consultancies to help you address any number of challenges, whether it's environmental or hiring geotechnical experts or hiring appraisers or folks that can look at the symmetry of areas. Like, you just need it if you're going to be doing things that can help you get grants or help you further, you know, critical projects.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:54 - 2:19:03)
I mean, this – just to me, I mean, this is community and economic development 101. I mean, we – it's going to take, you know, the resources and the expertise of a pinnacle consulting group to really see this RFP at the Hadley School through. I mean, if we're going to have a hotel in town which is going to generate, you know, hopefully hundreds of thousands of dollars in hotel-motel taxes, you know, as well as restaurant taxes, as well as really providing an anchor to our downtown, I think this is a – I mean, this is exactly what these ARPA funds are for, is to really spur this type of economic community development.

I agree with Peter's comment. You know, we can – we might be able to pay the $15,000, you know, invoice to date, but without that follow-up, without that next step, you know, we're really putting one or both arms behind our backs with this RFP process.

[Speaker 4] (2:19:03 - 2:19:08)
I think this is something that's – Well, if we didn't have – if we didn't have the ARPA funds, we would spend money out of the general budget.

[Speaker 2] (2:19:08 - 2:20:03)
Understood, yeah. But I think we have – I think this is exactly what these – what ARPA funds are for, which is to spur this economic development that we – you know, we certainly need this economic development. You know, you've mentioned, you know, any number of times over the last year and a half, of which we've served together, Mary Ellen, about the need for generating revenue, and I think we have this opportunity.

We're right on the precipice of receiving these RFPs to create a hotel and to create something that's going to be dynamic and really change our town and really have – and really bring that disposable income down to Humphrey Street to really help those local businesses. And I know that's something that you're passionate about, and I'm passionate about it as well. So I'd be certainly supportive of this request from the town administrator for $30,000.

[Speaker 3] (2:20:16 - 2:20:35)
So I'd make a motion to authorize the expenditure of not more than $30,000 of the town ARPA funds for Pinnacle Advisors. All right. Second?

[Speaker 26] (2:20:42 - 2:20:42)
Okay.

[Speaker 14] (2:20:44 - 2:20:45)
All right.

[Speaker 3] (2:20:45 - 2:20:45)
Sean?

[Speaker 1] (2:20:46 - 2:20:47)
Yeah, it's unfortunate. All right.

[Speaker 3] (2:20:48 - 2:21:24)
Figure it out. So, Sean, unless you tell me tomorrow morning I'm – Rachel Rudzinski changed plans to be around starting tomorrow for this. Unless you tell me tomorrow morning we have the funds, I'm telling her not to be around because – Yeah, I've already made sure that, you know, we'll be at $15,000.

No, no, that's not – but that doesn't – that's for work she's done. We can't sign the next phase contract with her. I'm not having her stay over the holidays, and we can come back in January and figure out what we want to do.

But this is unfortunate. We just sent a message to all the hotel people in a public meeting that we're going to pump the brakes now on this.

[Speaker 14] (2:21:24 - 2:21:26)
Well, that's not the message I'm sending.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:26 - 2:21:29)
I don't think that's the message we're sending. Characterize what I'm saying.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:29 - 2:22:36)
No, no, no. Okay? The inaction absolutely says that because we don't have – Well, that's your interpretation, Peter.

That is fine. I will put a disclaimer that I'm about to say an opinion. The opinion is that you, you, you, you, me do not have the expertise and cannot in good faith move forward with an RFP process without having the expertise in something that is an extremely niche business and that there are many ways it can go wrong if we don't get it – if we don't have that expertise.

And from the very beginning, I've cautioned everybody about this. The opportunity is wonderful, but it's not wonderful because we all want it. It's wonderful because it has so many parts that can be added to our community.

We can't get there because we think pictures are pretty and the plans are nice. We can't get there. It's all numbers.

It's underwriting. It's financial. It is nitty-gritty stuff that – Totally.

No disrespect. I don't know anybody in this room. No disrespect.

If you're really good at it, please raise your hand because we apparently need someone that can review this stuff. And I think that – anyways.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:37 - 2:22:38)
I totally agree.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:38 - 2:22:58)
I've said my piece. If you can let me know tomorrow morning because I'm not – I've already asked her to change her plans, and I've called in that favor, and I'm not going to do that to a respected professional. So thank you for that job.

So can I speak now? Is it going to be opinion or facts? Because you need to say that one.

Of course it will be my opinion.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:00 - 2:23:41)
So just to be clear for the record, I didn't say I was opposed to this. I said that I thought this deserved to be part of a broader conversation about the 2.1, and I'm ready to have that conversation right now. And if you all don't see or think that we can have that conversation, then that's okay.

That's the majority's perspective. I think we can, and I think we should because I think we've been kicking the can over and over about several pieces of this 2.1, and I would love to have that conversation, and I would love to support this in that context. So just to be clear, it has nothing to do with whether or not I think this is a worthwhile thing.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:43 - 2:24:22)
Doug, I would love to get you to a place where you could actually feel as though we could find a compromise. I do think that it's important. But we didn't put this on the agenda tonight to talk about that big picture conversation, and frankly, I think everybody deserves to kind of show up ready to have that big conversation.

If you had some priorities, though, perhaps you can put them on the table. Maybe there's an opportunity for a few things to get addressed, but, you know, that's up to your colleagues on this board.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:24 - 2:24:28)
So if there was no offer money available, you would not be able to do this?

[Speaker 1] (2:24:29 - 2:24:52)
You know, I'd have to go back. I'm going to literally just, I'm going to expend a lot of the consultancy lines that I have in the budget, and it's going to be painful. You know, it's going to put a lot of pressure on, you know, the operating budget, you know, and that's unfortunate because we have a whole year.

We have community programs. We have initiatives. We have different things that, you know, we'd want to do.

[Speaker 14] (2:24:52 - 2:24:53)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:53 - 2:25:10)
I mean, I have different events planned. We had programmed some funding for different projects and initiatives, so it may seem trivial to you, but $1,000 in a budget makes a huge difference on projects.

[Speaker 3] (2:25:12 - 2:25:21)
Sean, you've never ever made a strong recommendation like this, to be honest with you, with us. You always are too deferential, in my view, on this type of thing. This is 1.4% of the money.

[Speaker 25] (2:25:21 - 2:25:21)
I know.

[Speaker 3] (2:25:22 - 2:25:51)
Right? But you're right. It's not against that, but in principle, the 1.4%, we're going to let a project go sideways. So I get it. That may not be your intent, but it is the consequence, and I think the consequence is unfortunate when we're talking about 1.4%. Okay, but everyone else is making a decision not to talk about the other things. Well, it's not about not talking about the other things.

It is, but it's a moving target. You are giving the impression, unfortunately, and we can't get into much discussion tonight about it because it relates to things that aren't things that we're talking about.

[Speaker 5] (2:25:51 - 2:25:55)
There's a way to reserve money, so there's ways to deal with that.

[Speaker 3] (2:25:55 - 2:28:01)
Not without showing things publicly about what funds we have available to do things. And so the answer is we were having conversations so respectfully to even give the impression that we know the dollar amount that we can spend right now is just a misimpression because we actually don't know that number, which is the only reason that I'm not. As a matter of fact, I actually know the compromise.

I'm not compromised. I know what you want to do with the money, and for the most part, going into tonight, I was fine with it. But what I'm not fine is I can't tell people how much money we actually have to spend, and neither can you and you, and again, none of us can.

And so that's my only point for not wanting to have that conversation, not because of that. Going into tonight, I think I agreed with you. But we just can't tell people candidly that we know the number.

And it's for all good things, by the way. We're working through some really good things. We just don't know the answer tonight, and we would all love to have the answer because we don't want to be doing the other stuff either.

I mean, like, we're really busy. It's just I don't want to give the impression that we know more than we do. We don't know that answer.

So I can't tell you how to do what you want to do tonight because percentages isn't good enough because percentages only work if you know what the real dollars are that we're doing towards things. And so that's why I can't speak about it tonight. I appreciate that you're passionate about the things that you want to do.

And again, coming into tonight, I was supportive of that. But I just don't know what dollars there are there. So I apologize.

I appreciate all the work you're putting on ARPA. Sean's asked for something that he rarely ever leans in and asks for because he has a lot of handcuffs for him in his operating budget, and he knows things that are coming down the pike or sees challenges and knows what happens when the planner comes in, our new planner, who's starting January 1st, God willing, you know, can officially stop his thing, is picking up the reins of something that's sat still for quite a while and knows what's coming down the pike and knows how many times people come into his office and say, Can I do things?

Not to mention us coming into his office saying, Can we do things? So I think Sean's foreshadowing a concern that he can't fix later on. Once the problem's there, he can't make money.

So I think he's just anticipating it. So anyways, I made my motion. It wasn't second.

We'll move on.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:02 - 2:28:05)
Is there a revised motion, Doug?

[Speaker 3] (2:28:06 - 2:28:11)
We've changed that. No, we didn't vote on it. We didn't vote on it.

I said second question mark.

[Speaker 25] (2:28:11 - 2:28:18)
Oh, I'm sorry. I was confused because I thought we did. No, the chair cannot second it.

I thought we changed this.

[Speaker 3] (2:28:18 - 2:28:30)
I believe the last time we were in this conundrum, we were at four members as well. This is why we're changing it because it's absurd. But anyways, I don't think we have the votes anyways.

It is what it is. Sean, just call me in the morning and let me know where we're going. That's all.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:32 - 2:28:49)
My thought, though, was, Doug, if there was a compromise position, if you thought, aside from talking about the whole thing, if there was something else that you thought we could use some amount of offer to help address, maybe there's a compromise that the board can discuss.

[Speaker 5] (2:28:50 - 2:28:58)
Well, before I get it, go there, which I'm happy to, but I don't think a lot of other people are happy to.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:59 - 2:29:00)
Just sum the board together.

[Speaker 5] (2:29:00 - 2:30:26)
I'm happy to kind of discuss this and try to figure out a path forward. I hope it's not seen as completely unreasonable, given the fact that we literally had this conversation a few meetings ago about trying to vote for one thing, and that was not acceptable at that time because we needed to really think about everything as a whole. So we're kind of like flipping because it's a different item, I guess, right now, or there's a different pressure point.

So the shortest route, potentially. So, yes, I understand maybe, maybe, maybe you could find a way to get the $30,000 out of the budget right now, depleting everything. The flip, of course, is that you could come back in two months or as part of our overall ARPA discussion, we now know that we're going to need to have kind of a reserve there for some other potential consulting that happens.

It's just potential right now. We don't even know what it is. So right now you have money, potentially, you can correct us, correct me if I'm wrong, to actually deal with this $30,000, but what you're really worried about is the fact that then there's absolutely nothing left to deal with anything for the next six months.

Is that a fair thing? It is a fair thing.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:27 - 2:30:39)
We just don't have funding for a lot of the consultancies or special projects that normally we would want.

[Speaker 5] (2:30:39 - 2:30:58)
So a flip, without taking on the whole enchilada right now, is to say go ahead, use what you've got right now, and now we know when we have the broader ARPA conversation that we're really going to have to think about coming back with some additional consulting money to deal with other things that are going to come up.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:58 - 2:32:41)
We really can't. ARPA has such a narrow program. We don't have the same flexibility with the line items that we have in the budget.

It's going to be a lot harder for us to program some of those activities. It's going to be hard. This is a strategic use of some of these dollars to help us with an economic development project that the board has wholeheartedly endorsed, and it does send the wrong message to a consultant.

I hear your concerns, though, Doug. I just wish we weren't having these. I know.

But I want the board to find compromise. I want you to figure this out together. I hear the concerns, Doug, and I don't think they're invalid.

It's just I wish we'd bring them up at a later point and you can go back and say, hey, we worked together on this point. I need help on that point. Find your common ground.

It's important for us to not have pyrrhic exercises like this. This doesn't help anybody. I'm trying to help the town.

This is helping the town. There's nothing here that isn't helping in a great way a generational project. We'll hurt the town by not acting on this.

Down to my toes, I believe that. And everybody can kind of sit here and think, oh, geez, that's just the way it bounces. But it's not a good use of our time.

[Speaker 16] (2:32:49 - 2:32:50)
What's next, Mr. Chairman?

[Speaker 2] (2:32:50 - 2:32:57)
All right. Next, we have annual permit renewals for Social Club, all alcohol, liquor licenses.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:02 - 2:33:32)
I'm going to just recommend that we just approve these through the end of February. There are some conversations that I'd like to have with a few of these clubs. You know, we've recently, you know, taken a look at something.

So if the board would entertain a motion to approve them through February, I think we can come back and address a few things. Do I have a second?

[Speaker 4] (2:33:34 - 2:33:40)
I have a question, though. Why do we need to wait until February? What does that do to these clubs?

[Speaker 1] (2:33:40 - 2:33:41)
We'd approve through February.

[Speaker 4] (2:33:41 - 2:33:42)
I understand that.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:42 - 2:33:50)
It gives them a chance to, you know, move forward and gives the town a chance to I mean, it sounds like are you having an issue with the clubs?

[Speaker 4] (2:33:50 - 2:33:53)
Do they have you conversating? I mean, I have no idea what's going on here.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:53 - 2:33:59)
Sure. I'm happy to report back. I need some time to work through a few things.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:04 - 2:34:27)
Oh, sorry. All right, so all in favor of the motion to approve the liquor licenses for the all alcohol Social Club liquor licenses through the end of February of 2024. All in favor?

Aye. Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:29 - 2:34:34)
And I just like to get this result. This is me too. Yep.

Kind of weird.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:34 - 2:34:55)
Yep. Understood. So we have that with that consent agenda.

Consent agenda is designed to expedite the handling of routine and miscellaneous business of the board. Select board may adopt the entire consent agenda with one motion at the request of any board member. Any item may be removed from the consent agenda placed on the regular agenda for discussion.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:55 - 2:35:01)
Can you remove the minutes and can we vote on them next time? I didn't get a chance to look at any of them.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:02 - 2:35:10)
Sure. Sure. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

[Speaker 4] (2:35:12 - 2:35:15)
They're busy. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:15 - 2:35:21)
Order. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended by Mary Ellen?

[Speaker 10] (2:35:23 - 2:35:24)
Sorry. All right. Give me a minute.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:29 - 2:35:33)
I just asked to take out the minutes and vote on them next time. I didn't get a chance to look at them. Oh, okay.

[Speaker 3] (2:35:33 - 2:35:59)
That's fine. So I apologize. I'm sorry.

I have questions. Yes. I'm sorry.

I apologize. And I believe there's a representative from National Grid here tonight to help me with this. So I think there's a couple of petitions.

So can we just take those out? Can we take the two National Grid petitions out and the minutes out and just make a motion to approve the consent agenda minus those items?

[Speaker 2] (2:35:59 - 2:36:07)
Sure. Do I have a second? Second.

All in favor? Aye. Aye.

Thank you. All right. National Grid?

[Speaker 3] (2:36:07 - 2:39:22)
Yeah. So there's two applications for joint or identical poll locations. And so I have a – it would probably be good for the National Grid rep to maybe explain – not everybody here has had the benefit of prior times when National Grid comes and explains what they actually do.

But there is something specifically I want to talk about that is National Grid that's relevant. So I appreciate you being here tonight to make me smarter, because I need to be smarter. And I'm trying to see if I can find the document.

So bear with me for one second. I'm not going to find it. But in 2003, the general court passed a law that the governor signed that requires the removal of double polls.

And it requires an annual report be filed by all the utilities across the state as to their ongoing efforts to remove double polls. I don't have an update from our DPW director, because he wasn't in today. But I'm not aware of a single double poll that has been removed in Swampscot in, oh, let's just say years.

If anything, I've seen double polls increase because when there is a storm or there's an accident, I'm thinking corner of Banks and Walker, and a poll comes down, the quick fix is to attack another poll to a poll. And I understand why that's the quick fix, because it's important to get the utilities back in service here. But what happens is all these double polls stay.

And I, in my nine years, haven't seen, I'm going to say any. It's a little hyperbolic. Maybe there have been some.

But nothing visually that would tell me go to the monument area in Swampscot, which is a historic area, an area that we take great pride in. You see double polls go on side streets. I'm looking at, there's not many people here, but I'm looking at people that I know their streets that they live on, and there's double polls in their streets, right?

And they're unsightly. They don't feel safe. And the legislature has a mandate to remove double polls.

But yet, I don't see any action in Swampscot. And so not that you're going to be able to speak for National Grid. I'm not trying to put you on.

I just, I need to understand we keep getting these petitions to approve things for National Grid and do things for National Grid. And that's great. And that's part of our responsibility too.

But I think, you know, there is a law out there. Never mind just good faith. But there's a law that mandates this.

And I went back and I looked at many of the reports that are filed because there is a, maybe it's a biannual, I can't remember. Again, I couldn't open the document, that all the utilities have to. And it's a wonderful report.

It's the exact same report year after year after year after year after year. The lawyer's letterhead says on behalf of National Grid, this is the status. It doesn't actually tell you anything they've done.

It's almost identical letter year after year. And so it doesn't give the sense that it's taken seriously. And I understand there's so many other pressures on the utilities.

So I'm not, I get it. But this is something that was a concern. Went through the legislature.

Went through DPU such that there's a requirement to submit to DPU this letter. And so I just, you can speak to whatever you want about it tonight. But from my standpoint, I'm not inclined to support petitions when I don't believe that this issue is being taken seriously.

Thank you for hearing me. Yeah, go ahead, please. Thank you.

[Speaker 12] (2:39:23 - 2:41:09)
Good evening, everybody. Thank you very much. My name is Rafael Karigalen, representing National Grid 170, McForest Reading, Molding.

Actually, I live in Lynn. I just knew National Grid. I just have, like, even I'm going to have a year this April, next April.

But actually, normally, all Joy-On National Grid poles are not only from National Grid, are from National Grid and normally Verizon. So in this type of contract, National Grid is the company that is, the company that install the poles and by contract Verizon is the company who has to remove the poles. So it's by contract in that case.

The best thing that I can do in this case is give you my contact information, and I surely can pass the information about the engineering area in Verizon that needs to remove the poles that you need. And I know that what you are saying is true because I saw that any place, every other cities that we cover here in the North Shore, and, well, it's not National Grid, the company that is going to be removing the poles. We are only going to be installing, and Verizon is the company that is committed to do that job.

So I can pass my contact information, and I don't have the Verizon information right now, but I definitely, with my supervisor, can pass through and make a following on that job.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:10 - 2:42:28)
So I really appreciate it. I actually found the letter I was thinking about here. So in the letter, which is, again, this is I think the most recent one, November of 23, that was submitted by National Grid's lawyers, it does speak about the fact that, and the only progress that you see in these letters is it says, during the period of May 1st through October 31st, a total of 8,100 transfers were made by the parties attached to National Grid's double poles.

Of these, 3,300 were made by National Grid, 2,100 by Verizon, 1,600 by cable companies. And so, again, these are things where multiple utilities have things on poles, and so they have to remove their own utility and tee these things up. So I get that there is a process, right?

I'm just going to ask, and so I appreciate the input that you've given me tonight, but I guess I'm just going to ask the town administrator to ask the DPW to get to us a list of double poles. And just, again, they're not just unsightly. I mean, they're incredibly unsightly, but they also don't feel safe, right?

Now, again, they're going to say, well, of course, the utility is not going to leave them that they're not safe, but they are bolted onto each other. They are cockeyed. And they have been here for decades.

[Speaker 1] (2:42:30 - 2:42:36)
We did reach out today to try to get a list of all those, and we'll get those to the board as soon as they come in.

[Speaker 12] (2:42:37 - 2:44:12)
The principal reason, so I think, like, I'm here, so maybe I'm going to be, like, I don't know, the first contact from National Grid from I don't know how long. So I can give you my contact information. And, for example, if you told me, hey, this pole, this double pole in this street, and I can definitely search and know if it is a joint own pole or is a sole pole.

If it is a sole pole, definitely National Grid can remove it, and it's not a big deal to remove a pole, really. But in the case that it is a double pole, normally we cannot remove it because there are other assets from other companies that we cannot touch it. For example, I heard that in a storm like this one, we only allow to make wires down on our cable.

For example, we receive a lot of calls about, hey, we have some wires down here, low, and we figured it out, and we say, no, it's still co-wired. So the person say, hey, you can't help me, remove it, cut it. And I heard that maybe it's like a fiber optic that connects Washington, and we make a big deal for something that is not a big deal in that case.

But definitely I can do that, and I think it's a good idea. If you say VPU is the person, we're going to put some fire on them because they don't do it.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:14 - 2:44:17)
All right. Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Thanks for sharing your contact information.

[Speaker 12] (2:44:17 - 2:44:18)
Great.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:18 - 2:44:19)
Happy to work with you. Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (2:44:28 - 2:44:30)
All right. Select board time.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:36 - 2:44:38)
I just want to give my little update.

[Speaker 16] (2:44:44 - 2:44:45)
Go ahead, Mary Ann.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:45 - 2:45:04)
So the Disability Commission has been meeting, and they're going to be sending it, or they voted that they want to support getting another space, handicapped parking space, in front of a library. I'm not sure what the process is.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:04 - 2:45:09)
You know, we've looked at that. I've talked to the library about spaces.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:09 - 2:45:14)
Good night. Thank you. Sorry, we didn't vote on his petitions.

[Speaker 14] (2:45:15 - 2:45:15)
Oh.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:16 - 2:45:46)
No, you're fine. It's okay. I'm just saying, I'm just realizing we went to select board time, and we didn't vote on his petitions.

I was holding it up so we could have this conversation. I'm fine. Do you guys have questions?

I'm fine with the petitions. I was using the petitions as an opportunity to let National Grid blame Verizon. I think it's what I heard, and so we just need to invite Verizon to this party.

But anyways, small steps. So anyway, so I'd make a motion to approve the two National Grid petitions.

[Speaker 16] (2:45:49 - 2:45:49)
Second?

[Speaker 4] (2:45:50 - 2:45:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 16] (2:45:50 - 2:45:55)
All right, all in favor. Aye. Aye.

Thank you. All right.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:55 - 2:45:56)
Get those polls down.

[Speaker 16] (2:45:56 - 2:45:57)
All right. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:58 - 2:45:58)
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 16] (2:45:59 - 2:46:01)
I'm sorry, Mary Ann, for interrupting.

[Speaker 1] (2:46:01 - 2:46:01)
That's okay.

[Speaker 16] (2:46:01 - 2:46:08)
I just wanted to realize that. We did the consent, right? Yeah, yeah.

We did the consent, but we pulled the ADL one, right?

[Speaker 1] (2:46:08 - 2:46:10)
Yeah, we pulled the polls.

[Speaker 4] (2:46:11 - 2:46:20)
Oh, wait. I just have a question. I don't have my packet.

On the climate action, you don't have – do we have a select board member as a voting member on there?

[Speaker 3] (2:46:20 - 2:46:20)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (2:46:21 - 2:46:22)
And then we also have a liaison?

[Speaker 5] (2:46:23 - 2:46:24)
No, it's one and the same.

[Speaker 4] (2:46:25 - 2:46:27)
Okay. I got it.

[Speaker 5] (2:46:28 - 2:46:49)
But we can certainly kind of – I think we're generally drifting towards not having select board members as members, so we can kind of evolve that. But we do have one opening still that we did not fill with this vote tonight. Got it.

We need a student. If there's any students out there that are watching this. That are watching at almost 10 o'clock.

Exactly. Mary Ellen, sorry.

[Speaker 4] (2:46:49 - 2:46:57)
So, going back to the disability commission and the – there's only one handicapped parking space outside the library?

[Speaker 1] (2:46:59 - 2:47:22)
We've talked about this previously, and I'd like to just get a sense from the library director and the staff. Parking in front of the library is at a premium, and certainly this has come up before. Right.

So, happy to report back and have staff provide some recommendations as well.

[Speaker 4] (2:47:23 - 2:48:35)
So, the library is a very, very busy place. There's only one spot right now, and we need to address that. Okay.

Okay. They also are – one of the members is working with the new school building about talking about how it's set up for hearing impaired. So, I think she's in touch with the chair of the school building committee.

Capital is working through all their projects. Solid waste, they need the adjustments, but we'll bring that up next time. They're working on setting up their agenda for what they're going to do next year.

The assessors voted, took care of everything, and we talked earlier. They're going to have a timeline with Patriot Properties. And last but not least, I had the privilege of meeting with the Cub Scouts this weekend to talk about government, and it was very educational for me, sitting with a room full of 10-year-old boys.

And I think what was the most impressive was the amount of scout leaders they had, really dedicated dads in there helping out.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:35 - 2:48:36)
Did they sign you up?

[Speaker 4] (2:48:39 - 2:48:41)
No, it's the Cub Scouts.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:42 - 2:48:44)
You could be a dad later. Oh, really?

[Speaker 4] (2:48:44 - 2:48:45)
Okay, well.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:45 - 2:48:45)
That was my mom.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:46 - 2:48:52)
I'll go back there, but I just wanted to let you all know that I think they're going to be coming to a resident comment soon.

[Speaker 14] (2:48:52 - 2:48:53)
Awesome.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:54 - 2:49:13)
Because they were a little concerned when I was going over our responsibilities with licensing, and I talked about the dogs have licenses, and they wanted to know about cats have licenses, and they thought that there was an inequity in the town and that cats probably should be having licenses. So I told them.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:13 - 2:49:17)
I thought they were coming to ask us for a handicapped parking space in front of the library.

[Speaker 4] (2:49:18 - 2:49:18)
They will be.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:19 - 2:49:21)
Is what I assumed she was going to say.

[Speaker 4] (2:49:21 - 2:49:43)
No, no. But I will go back to them because they were very happy with my presentation. You're concerned about cats too?

No. No, but they were. I have to tell you, they were just.

They're really great kids. I was really blown away at how they asked great questions. They were engaging.

They were just wonderful, and it was exciting.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:44 - 2:49:47)
Scouts are some of the best human beings you'll ever meet.

[Speaker 4] (2:49:48 - 2:49:55)
Yes. Well, I asked them, do you know, can you name all the Eagle Scouts on the select board?

[Speaker 5] (2:49:56 - 2:49:58)
You too? Got two.

[Speaker 4] (2:49:59 - 2:50:00)
You are too?

[Speaker 5] (2:50:00 - 2:50:02)
No. Sean?

[Speaker 1] (2:50:02 - 2:50:04)
I am not an Eagle Scout.

[Speaker 4] (2:50:04 - 2:50:05)
We only have one Eagle Scout.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:05 - 2:50:09)
No. Two. Way to blow that answer.

You got to go back and apologize.

[Speaker 4] (2:50:10 - 2:50:13)
Oh, well, you're new, so I didn't have a chance to find that out.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:13 - 2:50:15)
He's not a new Eagle. I don't count.

[Speaker 4] (2:50:15 - 2:50:25)
I'm going to go back. Your Eagle Scout doesn't count until you're on the board for two years. I guess not.

Well, I'll go back. But they were. It was just.

It was great to see community.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:26 - 2:50:27)
Thanks, Mary Ellen. I appreciate that.

[Speaker 4] (2:50:28 - 2:50:29)
And I appreciate all your help.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:29 - 2:50:31)
Will you let me know the next time that you're meeting with the Scouts?

[Speaker 4] (2:50:32 - 2:50:35)
No, because I also told them they're going to be able to go to town hall.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:35 - 2:50:40)
No, we don't like to confuse. That is beautiful. That's actually beautiful.

Just let them have that. That was beautiful.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:40 - 2:50:43)
That was beautiful. Normally, I give the tour of town hall to the board of scouts.

[Speaker 4] (2:50:43 - 2:50:44)
Oh, no, they're coming.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:44 - 2:50:50)
I'm the one issuing citations, and I'm the one talking to them about government. They're going to come over. But I'm okay if you want to do that, Mary Ellen.

[Speaker 4] (2:50:52 - 2:50:57)
Well, Sean, I have to say, I did receive the phone call, and I didn't want to say no.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:59 - 2:51:06)
Normally, I give them proclamations and all sorts of fancy things. I heard that Diane actually helped you with that.

[Speaker 4] (2:51:06 - 2:51:12)
Diane hooked me up. They are really excited. Beautiful.

[Speaker 2] (2:51:12 - 2:51:30)
I just want to take a moment to wish everybody who celebrates a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, and to all my board members, a very fun, family-filled holiday season and prosperous.

[Speaker 14] (2:51:31 - 2:51:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:51:31 - 2:51:34)
Thank you very much. You, too.

[Speaker 5] (2:51:34 - 2:52:14)
I want to do that in a material way, because I'm going to ask that we go back and revisit our $2.1 million conversation. Okay. So, with a belief that we will work together to make multiple priorities a reality, I'll move to support the $30,000.

[Speaker 3] (2:52:15 - 2:52:30)
Do I have a second? Yeah, I mean, and I'm serious. My fourth kid will be named Doug.

But I told Doug that will keep my word. I'll second that. All right.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

[Speaker 4] (2:52:30 - 2:52:31)
No.

[Speaker 3] (2:52:31 - 2:52:31)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (2:52:32 - 2:52:32)
Well done.

[Speaker 3] (2:52:32 - 2:52:33)
Awesome.

[Speaker 2] (2:52:33 - 2:52:36)
Thank you, Doug. Thank you. With that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[Speaker 5] (2:52:36 - 2:52:38)
Second. So moved. Second.

[Speaker 2] (2:52:39 - 2:52:39)
All in favor?

[Speaker 5] (2:52:39 - 2:52:40)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (2:52:40 - 2:52:41)
Aye. Thanks, everybody.

[Speaker 1] (2:52:41 - 2:52:42)
Eagle Scouts came through.

[Speaker 2] (2:52:42 - 2:52:43)
Thank you, Joe.

[Speaker 1] (2:52:43 - 2:52:44)
All right.