[Speaker 15] (0:12 - 2:49)
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[Speaker 22] (3:11 - 5:58)
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[Speaker 1] (6:00 - 7:46)
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. What I would hope for is that we can all listen to each other tonight. I came here tonight to listen to people, really.

We don't always get things right, you know? And there are times that we need feedback. So we scheduled this meeting knowing that people would show up and help us understand what you expect.

This is not my property, it's not a town employee's property, it's your property. It's the town's property. So take this moment and try to help us figure this out.

We did have a process. We're gonna talk tonight a little bit about the process. When we presented this idea a few weeks ago, we didn't talk a lot about the process.

And we wanted to share with you how much effort went into trying to listen to people. We have a really diverse town, we have a lot of ideas. The fact that you're here tonight is awesome.

This is part of democracy. But it's important for us to understand that there are a lot of ideas that we have to really grapple with. We have to try to make all those ideas manifest into a consensus.

With that, I hope everybody will be patient. I know it feels like the air conditioning is off. I hope everybody will just spend a little bit of time listening.

I will take notes, we will work as a team to come back and try to engage people and really come up with an idea that works for everybody. We're committed to working towards a consensus. Jack?

All right, thank you.

[Speaker 2] (7:48 - 15:48)
All right, I'm Pete Kane, the Assistant Town Administrator and Director of Planning and Land Use. And I'm gonna walk through the visioning, the process that we went through, the outcome, and then we'll open it up to questions and feedback. So to get us started, I'm gonna go through the process, what the data was that we received throughout that process, what those key findings and recommendations were, the preliminary concept that was presented a couple of weeks ago, the outline of the implementation and next steps, and then we'll move into that question and feedback phase.

So to get started, the process that we went through. You'll remember back in June of 2022, town meeting approved acquisition and the funding for the Hawthorne property. That then resulted in the town closing on the property in December of 2022.

We then immediately went into an idea exchange. That idea exchange was held at the Hawthorne restaurant in January of 23, where we had over 400 attendees come to give us general ideas, what was important to them, what they wanted to see on that property and what they didn't wanna see on the property. Through that process, we heard is there, Joe, can I get a mic, a handheld?

We heard that the most important uses were reflected in this word cloud. The larger the word means the most, they were repeated more and more often. So it was about space, about park, open space, outdoors.

Thank you. As far as the value, there we go. As far as the value is concerned, the biggest value that all the residents really emphasized was that view, a view on that property out to the water was the most important thing.

So with all of the different ideas that were presented and provided from the community members, our consultants HDR then put together three different scenarios. Those scenarios included on the far left side is the park-centric scenario. That scenario demonstrated redeveloping the property as primarily open space with a small architectural feature, a small building at the northeast corner, which would be the corner on Humphrey Street adjacent to the church parking lot.

The second scenario was considered a mix of business and park, where there was a business commercial building put at the street front, a plaza space that could be used for farmer's markets, and then the remainder of the property for open space. The third scenario that was presented, we call a mix of a jewel and a park. The jewel being some type of feature that really drew area and regional people to the park.

And the idea there was do the structure out at the waterfront and put the park on the street end. So it was still all three scenarios focused on open space. That's what town meeting wanted.

And then finding those other items that were brought up during the idea exchange. With the scenarios, we then did multiple surveys where we asked residents with the scenarios that were presented, what do you prefer? What don't you like?

What's important? And what do you wanna get out of this development based on those scenarios? And you can see in the pie chart on the left-hand side that the primary support was for option one, and that was the park-centric one.

The option two with the commercial element but park was at 31%, and the smaller support was for that jewel project. Out of the feedback that we received through those different surveys, it was really emphasized that the most important thing was that we needed to develop a public park and open space. The least important or not important was off-street parking as not important and least important being creating revenue.

So all of these were raised, but we saw the importance levels. That feedback then gave us an idea on some goals, maintaining it for public enjoyment, creating a year-round destination, maximizing the open space and the views while also finding a way for the town to gain revenue out of the property. So we worked with the consultants, HDR, to put together what the findings were from that scenario and the surveys and the recommendations, designing the open space park, celebrating that waterfront, creating an anchor, something that draws people and creates it as a destination on a Humphrey Street while enhancing accessibility.

This means access to the water, but also making sure that all people of all abilities can access the property and then providing a fiscally responsible project. That then led us to the preliminary concept. This preliminary concept merges the ideas from options one and two, which emphasizes a green space while putting in a structure that's at the street front.

That structure in this scenario is a civic building. We demonstrated one of a library. The idea there was to provide year-round use because you have an interior space.

It also provides a multipurpose event, that space that could then be rented out for revenue. And the reason why it was a library, that we demonstrated a library, is because there is the Massachusetts Library Construction Fund that funds this project, a significant portion of the project. I will certainly take feedback soon.

Would help to fund the construction of the project rather than it being on the taxpayer dollars. So you'd be funding it through the state funding mechanism. Not the entirety of the project, but at least a key draw piece.

So that brought us to what are the implementation and what are the next steps? We kind of went through what we did for the analysis, how we got to the preliminary concept, but it's not the end. So right now we're still in the phase one, phase two, putting together this concept, but getting the feedback and refining it.

As we move through the forum and as we move through additional feedback and additional public meetings, we'll design and refine that concept so that we can then design an actual schematic, determine what the use will be. We can also then determine how we're going to use the property in the interim before the project actually gets constructed, before ground is broken. Do we continue renting it as a restaurant or do we do something else on the property in the interim?

And during that process, we also identify the specific funding. We don't know the funding mechanisms that we're going to use until we define and come to a concrete idea on what it's going to be. What we end up building is going to depend on the different mechanisms and where we can seek out funds rather than just having the Town of Swampscout residents pay for the project.

Then you'll go through a few different phases of the design and construction, the permitting, the funding, securing that funding, demolition, construction. The purpose of this is to demonstrate this is not going to happen tomorrow. This is something that's going to take multiple years.

Just like the visioning process to put together this vision took over a year, there are additional steps that are going to happen that the community is going to be part of throughout the development. So we have a lot of time. There is a lot of breath here, and this is why we want to make sure that we get your feedback on that idea that was presented.

So I want to move to our questions and feedback portion. We're going to do mics so that people online can hear.

[Speaker 20] (15:50 - 17:14)
Okay. Okay. Debbie Friedlander, town meeting member, precinct six.

I don't want to belabor everything that went on in the past because I understand we are trying to move forward. Sean, you know that I spoke to you about this one issue. I think a big part of the feedback was that the general public wasn't being kept up to date with the project.

In any business, when you're doing a project, you either give weekly, quarterly updates. So I want to say to both the select board as well as to our town manager that had there been some updates along the way, none of us would have been caught off guard. And as we know, yes, this is more of a municipal building.

Full disclosure, I am a library trustee, and it took me way by surprise. So I just want to hope that yes, we're doing this today, that this is a regular type of event as well as there will be, I would think, monthly updates at the select board meeting. Obviously, all of us can watch that so that we are not going to be caught off guard and that our select board members not all knew about the plan, which is bizarre to me.

So I just wanted to get that on the record.

[Speaker 1] (17:15 - 17:21)
Okay. Thank you. Debbie, I appreciate that.

I do think we can have more updates on it.

[Speaker 16] (17:26 - 18:04)
Hi, my name is Jill Coyden, and I live in Precinct 5 now. My name is Jill Coyden. I live in Precinct 5.

I'm a little confused with the presentation. It almost appeared to me like you were saying, oh wait, let's look at all the places we could get funding. Let's pick the library because we can get a grant for that.

Obviously, there can't possibly be the reason why you did that, but that's how it appeared to me. How did you come across the idea that a library was needed, a new building rather than a renovated building?

[Speaker 1] (18:08 - 19:20)
Yes. Yes, that's a great question. I think we heard so many concerns about what we could do with this property.

There was a thought that perhaps the property could be a new senior center or a new rec center. And we had all sorts of competing ideas that came up through the events that we had. We had 400 people at the Hawthorne event, and lots of folks had all these wonderful ideas.

And we started to think about the economics, and we tried to think about how do we use space? We're a town of three square miles. We only have so many buildings.

Could we possibly reuse the library for a new senior center or a rec center? Are there other opportunities for us to really look around and create something that really we're missing? Because Swampskate doesn't have a senior, or really, it has a senior center, but if you look around, we don't have an adult care center.

We don't have the things that a population like Swampskate deserves. And we're trying to put all these pieces together. Now, we should have had more meetings.

It's clear, but we earnestly, we're trying to balance a lot of these needs.

[Speaker 16] (19:23 - 19:51)
You're mentioning the senior center. You're mentioning the community center. Still, I haven't heard the word library mentioned.

I've never heard the word library, and I went to some, I met to the first 400-person meeting. I saw all the things up there. I never heard the, and I'm not against a library.

I'm just not clear, because it's money only? Is that why you want the library?

[Speaker 1] (19:51 - 20:40)
No, I think a lot of it was, our library, it's wonderful, it really is. We have a new library director, and we were thinking about, what does a 21st century library really entail? And when we look around and we see all of the synergies, we're looking to bring a hotel to the Hadley School, and we're looking to really activate Humphrey Street, and it just seemed like having a really profound civic use in a property that was a land form design.

This was kind of a new concept. We could have a park on top of a building. We could really maximize the public place and space, but also have that functional synergy between a civic building that could engage with so many different areas.

[Speaker 16] (20:40 - 20:43)
So it's not really a library, then, that you're talking about?

[Speaker 1] (20:43 - 20:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 16] (20:44 - 21:01)
You're talking about a facility that the whole community can use, and just happen to have some books in there? So that we can get the grant? I mean, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, really.

I am, but I'm not.

[Speaker 1] (21:01 - 21:54)
So yes, and we did look at other libraries around the country and around the world, and we looked at, what is a 21st century library? And it's a little different than what we have, and that's a little bit of the process that perhaps, if we got a little more feedback, maybe we could have baked that into a public presentation that would have helped people understand, we're not just, we hired HDR, one of the greatest landscape architectural firms that you could find in the world. They've gone around, they've designed wonderful places and spaces.

We had good people that were contributing to some of these ideas, and what we were trying to do was just put something on the table and send it up and get feedback. Yes, we got feedback. Not all the feedback we wanted to get, but at least people are engaged here, and they care about this.

And to me, that's a good thing.

[Speaker 16] (21:54 - 22:26)
And I've been in those 21st century libraries, and they are not what I thought of as a library when I was involved with children and stuff. And we do need a facility like that, but I'm not necessarily sure we need to have a new facility or if we can renovate our old facility, and I know the cost renovating, there's no grants there, but there might be with ADA and all that stuff. All possibilities.

But, you know, I, anyway.

[Speaker 22] (22:26 - 22:26)
Thanks, Jill.

[Speaker 3] (22:30 - 28:57)
Yes? My name is Brian Watson. Is this on?

Okay. I'd like to say two parts here. I'd like to be very critical at the beginning of my remarks, but then I'd like to be very positive.

I need to be critical at the beginning. I think this process has really been terrible. I mean, really incompetent and terrible, and I'm sorry to say it, but.

But I am going to end with positive thoughts. I'm an architect and I was on the Metropolitan Area Planning Council for 22 years, and I've been involved in many public forums and a lot of processes and, quote, visioning processes. I attended the first two meetings, gave a lot of direct feedback, both publicly and privately, made a lot of positive suggestions.

The process, as you diagrammed neatly in your color presentation, that's window dressing, as far as I'm concerned. I was there. I think what's needed is leadership from somebody who knows how to run a process.

It isn't fair to the townspeople to solicit ideas. It's great to say we had 400 people, they all threw ideas at us. You need, when I say you, the town, the selectmen, and so forth, we need leadership that knows what to do with 400 comments.

You said the goal that came through on a lot of them was an open-water view. Well, I would tell you that I could draw five schemes that satisfied what you call the primary goal, and all five of those schemes would be radically different. I could draw, I mean, I say I, an architect could draw a park scheme, obviously you have your view.

You could draw a completely residential scheme, which I'm not advocating, but you could line the left and the right with buildings, and the whole middle of the site would have your view. I'm not here to advocate for any particular plan. And in fact, I think it's a huge mistake to have us tonight throw our, you know, all of us have an idea of what we want.

This is not the way it happens. Everybody doesn't just say, this is what I want, this is what I want, this is what I want. What needs to happen in a more orderly fashion, and here I'll be trying to be more constructive, is that there needs to be a, call it a teach-in if you want, but you need to, we as a town need a meeting where you talk about how do you decide what the use for a site is.

It is a methodology, and it might take a couple of architects at the front of the room who draw just 10 line diagrams. You don't have to pay a consultant, it doesn't have to be fancy. But you need to show people, the townspeople, here's the range of options.

A library could be one of them. A completely green park could be one of them. But I think you need an honest broker who draws 10 diagrams, it could be eight, it could be 12.

And then, and here's the important point, or one of the important points, you don't just ask 400 people which plan they like. You teach, you know, the townspeople are rookies at this, they're laymen. You teach them that every plan has pluses and minuses, and the exercise that we have to go through as a town is to attach the pluses and minuses to each of the 10 plans.

So for example, the open park plan, it's great. One big plus is it's all green. You know, you can plant trees, it's environmentally friendly, so forth.

You then go to the next one, a library. You list the pluses and minuses. The big minus of the library is it's gonna cost a hell of a lot of money, grant or no grant.

And then you have all the maintenance burden. You go to a mixed-use development. Maybe you have open space, maybe you have some retail, maybe you have a downtown plan.

What's the advantage, what's the disadvantage? You look at your goals that people have articulated. You say, does that meet the goals?

Anyway, you do that exercise, you do that exercise. You say to everybody, hold your thoughts, hold your preference, don't tell us yet. Just let's go through the exercise.

What people find out is that they change their minds. We don't know exactly what plan best articulates the things we value. I mean, one of the things that's completely missing from those so-called three different plans, which I dispute, I don't think they're three different plans at all.

I noticed your option two was tidied up a lot from the last public meeting I saw one year ago. It didn't look like that, it looked like three park plans. But one of the things that's glaringly missing is a plan that shows the downtown streetscape as a streetscape, like a village streetscape.

The whole rest of the lot could be green space. All I'm saying is there's some obvious glaring omissions, and it's just not fair to the townspeople to say, tell us what you like. Let's have some education, some orientation, tell people to hold their thoughts.

And then, we're the educated consumer. Then whatever the town wants, ultimately, you know, that's what'll happen. But you need, you skipped about four steps, you went too fast, you had two meetings, and then you come up with what is essentially, take it or leave it a library.

I think it's a mistake for us tonight to even respond to whether we like this library or not. I think it's a terrible proposal, but I'm not spending one minute telling you why, because it's premature. I wanna see 10 diagrams, and here's the thing.

People won't have to work so hard, right? I don't like the library, but I won't have to work so hard to tell you that I don't like that, and hopefully the town, you know, sees why. So, I think, I mean, so the last thought is, the way we could proceed is not to debate this library.

It's premature by everyone's opinion. And why waste the time? We teach the town wrong.

So, let's have some kind of a public meeting. I mean, I'm willing to help Richard Smith, who couldn't be here tonight, is an architect. He's willing to help.

You know, to pull from people the ideas, but then to show, okay, what do you have to do to evaluate the plans? So, I hope that's helpful, but I'm really disturbed that the town is just gonna plow through and make do with this library proposal. I know we paid money for it, for the rendering, but anyway, that's my two thoughts.

[Speaker 22] (28:58 - 28:58)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (29:04 - 29:22)
So, Brian, you and I have met, we've talked, and I don't disagree with you. It's just important for folks to understand. The library was just a concept.

It's not finalized, it's not baked in. There's no, there's nothing behind it other than an idea.

[Speaker 3] (29:22 - 29:51)
No, but I think you're, oh, but that's not fair. You paid $10,000 to have a rendering drawn, and and then you put it up as though that's where we're starting understood I understand it's not it's not right and it's not it's not that it's just not right but you're steering the town improperly show us the options let us all decide you know what are the pros and cons and then if this town chooses the library I'll be happy but don't show me the library and say this is the

[Speaker 7] (29:51 - 32:32)
starting point it's wrong we're gonna go to the back the room I town meeting member first of all I am thrilled Brian Watson lives in our town the big word I saw up there was view and I think you misinterpreted the view that doesn't necessarily mean we want to park to see the ocean you go about 50 feet to the right is Kings Beach that's the heck of a view you go a couple hundred yards to the left there's Fisherman's Beach that's a heck of a view there's a little park to Fisherman's Beach there are benches I walk my dog most every night of the year those are empty benches don't make any more of those we've already got lots of things I'm a we there should be some park space and I think in fact there should be but as Brian says way too premature but you misread the word view view is value economic value the potential economically for that site is unlimited and you've never talked about it and I finally heard I thought that's how many just said they hired a landscape architectural firm one of the best in the world you hire a landscape architectural firm you can get a park that's what they do why don't you hire a firm that is not necessarily biased towards a park what we don't have in this town we do have a library you all know that we don't have a village we don't have a central place Venice Square could be in Toledo or Kansas City or any place in the world you would not know where you were Venice Square does not say Swampscott it does not say Swampscott nothing really says Swampscott we might be able to create a village with the last kind of space on Humphrey Street and I'd rather throw it like before the church parking lot in too but that's a whole other issue we could create a village a central place where we have shops and restaurants and we could kind of go there and for those of us all of us in this room who pay very generous taxes every year tax revenue and maybe some jobs for our kids and the fact that we don't have to maintain a park and maybe keep our taxes a little bit low lower not low lower so that some of our kids can afford to live here someday which would be just terrific but the word view does not mean park does not mean no buildings does not mean I want to see the ocean I go right to Kings Beach to the all the ocean I want to see you're down the Fisherman's or over the Eisemann's or over the whales or over to Phillips we got lots of oceans to see we don't have a village we don't have a central place certainly certainly

[Speaker 2] (32:32 - 32:49)
appreciate that I just want to remind everybody town meeting authorized the acquisition for the purpose of open space may I respond to that we were given one day I will tell you I just wanted that's the reason why the the focus was open space because that's what town meeting did authorize no I we hired what

[Speaker 7] (32:49 - 33:51)
we do it that day we were presented what a deal guys vote for it right now we need it now we gotta have it it's a black wheels cliff if we're gonna lose it let's spend seven million dollars in like fools we did when you rush into something you will likely have regret we should have thought about that why wouldn't a private developer invest in our community with zoning controls let them pay the seven million dollars let us get the jobs and tax revenue and get a village we rushed into us a purchase which I I'm embarrassed by my vote I voted for it that was a mistake that was a terrible vote and if you all cast it it was not a good vote never rush into a seven million dollar deal on five minutes notice what were we thinking we could suck it in but we weren't there to buy a park I never would buy a seven million dollar park that you know maybe that word was mumbled but I heard mostly about black wheels cliff in the history of whatever I saw a village I didn't see Park but I again it was a bad vote I mean

[Speaker 1] (33:51 - 35:31)
mr. Smith I just want to just remind everybody what was happening when we interceded in a potential development of that site into 20-plus condos like we actually stepped in the middle of what I think would have been something that would be so adverse to this town that you would have regretted it if you didn't take that vote we were interceding to try to protect the master plan I love the idea of a village for Swampskate I've come to this town since I was two years old and you know we're missing that but the thought that we could actually activate the Hadley school into a boutique hotel and the thought that we could have some type of public amenity across the street was was part of a vision that we were trying to pull together we've got work to do obviously you know we've got great advocates for open space we've seen letters you know in the local paper this week about the importance of open space we know that it's incredibly important for our mental health and our physical health to have these open space areas and so for me this was not a bad decision for the town what we have to do is really you've got to work on the process and I don't disagree with Brian we do do pros and cons for everything we can put 10 options up I think that would be helpful we need to build more process because what's clear to me is that everybody cares very deeply about this site and about this town and we've got to just spend more time together I hope we can do it respectfully and civilly with each other because I know you know

[Speaker 7] (35:31 - 35:54)
we're all passionate Shawn one last part of the zoning that's our fault if that was all for only condominiums should be mixed use in the town should rezone that site if we get to control zoning they don't tell us we tell them yeah and that property should have been zoned differently but his own there was no reason to spend seven million bucks on one day's notice so at least to the

[Speaker 10] (35:54 - 39:00)
town meeting hi I'm Brenda Sheridan from precinct five I have a couple comments first of all I was blown away by the library not only because it's a library and we've got a perfectly fine library and not everybody's gonna use a library a library is not a park it's not open space it's thirty five million dollars I can't imagine that landscaping would cost anywhere close to thirty five million dollars and then you'd have that open space the other comment is I had made this on all of my feedback when we were voting on this there is no accessibility to that spot I just drove here down through Humphrey Street there's thirty minute parking across from the restaurants I try and get a pizza I can't even stop anywhere to get a pizza have to walk out you know you can't there's no place to park and we're gonna put a big piece of real estate there a library thinking that we're gonna bring people in from all over the county because that's what you said you wanted and there's no place for them to park and I don't want it to be a parking lot but there needs to be some accessibility not everybody in this town walks their dog along the beach some of us actually have to drive to get to those spots along the beach and there's no place for us to go so I think mixed-use needs to be open space I'm not saying a parking lot but probably a row of parking some of it handicapped accessible parking so the people on the other side of town can actually access the beach because they're the ones that don't have access to it and we're completely ignoring that half of the town I'm just I'm still so blown away by the cost of it I'm blown away by the fact that this was just kind of brought up and it was in the paper I was getting my pizza and I said so here the library Street and he says I thought we're in the park it's poor planning I get it I would have been furious if there was a condominium I it sounds to me like the library came about because you can get funding for it because that seems to be what we do we look for other people to pay for things and then we make the town that I don't feel like you are working for the town I think you are working for whatever your vision is you don't live in the town you want people to be able to come to the town from outside of the town think about the people in the town we don't need a hotel but we're getting a hotel we don't need a new library we need space I don't know how else to say it but you need to pay attention to the people in the town the quality of life that we have the taxes that we are paying and stop trying to monetize everything in this town thank you

[Speaker 8] (39:09 - 42:26)
can I go hey Mike Keleher think for town meeting member as of recently I just joined town meeting and just started getting involved which I wish I'd gotten involved sooner on mr.

Smith's comments because I wish I had participated because I do think the space as constituted in this proposal and others is ill suited for our town I don't understand the Hadley hotel proposal as it is as well someone else just brought it up but they come together well mistress we need to have a downtown vision you have the two most important parcels of our town right down by the water but we're refusing to develop them with it we have to do them separately we can't discuss one or the other no this has to be this this has to be that and I just think that is crazy and then so to have a library that again with the woman here said that you wouldn't be able to get senior citizens they'd have to be dropped off on the side of the very busy road there and would be really problematic and it would be a burden on the taxpayers as a library I really think the Hadley proposal should be scrapped and that the hotel should go in the parking lot where the Hawthorne is because then if the hotel was there and you had public space that was open the hotel would be painting to maintain it there'd be public bathrooms which we would be mandating as a town through the zoning and then they would have a restaurant and if the hotel was on the water that actually half the rooms had a view the hotel might actually succeed because I don't think this Hadley hotel has any chance of succeeding I have a couple friends in the hotel industry and they say when Hilton or Marriott or some of these other hotels look to get into building a new hotel it has to pay itself off in 10 years I heard on the proposal for this Hadley hotel it's not going to pay itself off for 50 years so I don't understand how we could think that's going to be a viable concept for a hotel that maybe has two or three windows that face the ocean who's going to go there in January nobody so I mean like I just don't understand I just think we need to take a step back and I get there was a process that I was not involved in a town meeting that a lot of people put this for open space but what I really think needs we need to go back to the drawing board and really get more than 400 people involved this is you know I just I mean the way the town has approached this I mean the I think the town administrator showed us how he feel by showing up half an hour late and Lincoln everyone sit here but I mean I I just really think we need to do a better job as a town and I know there was a big turnout for the election I think a lot of that had to do with a lot of the people that I've talked to that are really upset with this proposal and some of the other things that be going on with our town government and I think we need to take a step back and then look at oh we don't need to find a library there because we'll get funding if we actually put a business there they'll fund it they'll pay it and then we're not paying for it this is just I just think the town needs to we keep talking about shortfalls I now watch all these meetings here's an idea to get rid of a shortfall will actually make money on a spot I don't know crazy I know we haven't done that in the past with the Greenwood school and some other places and what a property so I just think it would be a cool concept but anyway thank you for your time this on yeah hi my name

[Speaker 5] (42:26 - 47:13)
is Tony banjo it's I'm town meeting member of precinct 4 I'm also the president of the swamp Scott Conservancy so I'm going to be giving you so I'm going to be giving you a different perspective but I wanted to start by just thanking for this opportunity to speak and by saying the Conservancy appreciates the efforts the town officials especially the volunteers who give their time and energy to the town and I don't think get the appreciation they sometime deserve that said there comes times when there may be a disagreement on the approach the town is taking or should take and in the opinion of those of us who cherish open space such as the Conservancy this is one of those instances we have the Conservancy has sent a letter to the select board and the town administrator outlining our position which in short is that we think the property should be primarily open space without a sizable public building whether it's a library or something else we also I think Sean referred to it have an article yesterday in the daily item which I have copies and I will leave up front if anybody hasn't hasn't seen that and I believe I know view the word view can have some different connotations but the other big word I saw there was space and my impression was that most of the town was interested in open space and that's because I don't think I have to tell anybody over the years waterfront public access and open space in general has really decreased significantly and in my opinion it's the connection to the ocean which makes our town different from all the other communities different from the square that was mentioned and which gives residents a sense of place and identity and you know I go down Humphrey Street and the Concordia Hotel to me is like a wall that separates the town from open space yes there are little pockets of views of the ocean but this is our you know gateway to our community and you know it should be I believe open space and when it's not the vision of something like Red Rock Park which is you know piece of greenery with a few trees there are many beautiful options that can be made for a state-of-the-art park that has place for performances can have a pollinator gardens play structures whatever when in our letter to the select board which we will be posting on our website SwampscotConservancy.org you can see some of the pictures we gave from other communities any building we we do believe even if it's glass even if it has a rooftop is going to block and separate the town physically and psychologically from the waterfront which is what I believe this town identifies with the reasons for the park are many we outline some of them includes health reasons doctors are now giving prescriptions for people to go out to parks for their mental and physical health economic reasons yes I know a lot of people are concerned about getting a recoup on the investment here but if you want to revitalize downtown there are many reports that show having parks and open space does that it revitalizes the town I don't think we want another wall of stores that are similar to the ones that currently exist on the other side of Humphrey Street that's not going to bring people in or revitalize our town so I guess in short the Conservancy and I think a lot of people in town would like to see a state-of-the-art open space with a view of the water not a few of some you know more store fronts and we hope that the town officials will take that into consideration the Conservancy is more than happy to assist to provide information in that effort thank you

[Speaker 12] (47:20 - 50:27)
Hello, can everybody hear me? Dana Swanstrom, Precinct 2. I'm definitely struck that with Sean I don't think this is this echo out there no I'm not sure I don't think you're gonna have to really I'll talk louder I promise yes so anyways I am struck by just having two folks up there I see this as victory has a thousand fathers and you know defeat is an orphan right there's only two people up there and I think it's more than what's going on up here and the two people I think the select board us we all contributed to this I think there's two things that else strike me is we had 400 comments in a town of 15,000 people there is something wrong there okay we need to have a process that is equal to this generational opportunity in front of us I would propose that we go out create a committee right architects business leaders Conservancy whoever to represent the town build this process that brings people in right and engages people gets people excited about the process let's have a contest with the elementary school for them to draw our ideas and have ideas and have a win get them talking about it at around their their tables at night dinner we have architects in town let's do an RFP with them not just get them engaged right get that input we need to do that get more and more input we need to quantify the feedback right we need to have a point in which we are playing back the feedback the results of whatever surveys we have and then the gentleman who's the architect I love the idea of having 10 or 12 ideas that we can all comment on right this is gonna have a long runway this is gonna have a long runway this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and we can't rush it and we got to make sure everybody's at table I have to say it's great that people are here but still we're a town of 15,000 people and there's a hundred I don't know how many people watching online but we need to bring more people in we need to play it back we need to have more and more input okay and so I hope we learn from this and I hope I hope we can just move on and I think I think like I said the architect I'm sorry that Brian is it Brian I think Brian's idea is let's not comment on the ideas tonight let's get a process built let's start over and move forward so thank you

[Speaker 1] (50:31 - 51:52)
look what I just want to say is like I am the town administrator and so as much folks may want to look elsewhere I'm I'm responsible and so I don't want you to I think you know some of these challenges because you know you know the process needs to get better we're here tonight not because we actually couldn't have canceled this meeting we talked about it a lot nobody frankly on my team wanted to be here tonight but we said nope we got to show up and we got to listen sometimes that's important you know but I also you know we could have pivoted to a week after town meeting we could have done some things but we needed to have more meetings we knew that and no hundred percent I'm fit the idea of having school children kind of come up with a concept I love that I love that absolutely you know I I do think we need a committee I think we need help you know I do I have an email I'll write it down and I will be here until the last person leaves and I will make sure that whoever needs my email or my cell phone

[Speaker 17] (51:52 - 53:46)
number gets it okay you've conceded the lack of transparency for which I am appreciative but the result of that lack of transparency has been a lack of information to the residents regarding why we need a library the people that I've talked to a dead set against it I use the library quite a bit as does my wife I don't have a Kindle I don't like reading online I go to the library it is not a modern edifice but it serves my needs I don't know I don't believe it's ever been discussed what the deficiencies are of this library that require a new library I haven't heard I haven't read I haven't heard of what these deficiencies are and whether or not they could be corrected by a renovation a town of model head is renovating the present libraries that it has and hopefully that'll be done soon why can't if there are deficiencies why can't we renovate instead of spending seven million dollars for the property itself and then thirty million dollars for a brand new library I don't see the need for the new library there may be the other uses that other people are talking about I think would better serve the community but not a library and that's what people that I've talked to are in agreement on that we don't need a little library fix it correct it renovate it you don't spend thirty

[Speaker 23] (53:46 - 54:47)
million dollars for a new library thank you hello philopappas precinct 5 just a quick follow-up to many of the things that have been said there's already been a lot of good ideas that have been thrown out here but I don't think we're here from what Brian said to really solve that tonight I really have to I really have to commend what he said about building the right process and starting over and going after that the one thing that was missing for me as even as we laid out the three scenarios but I would suggest you do this when you lay out the twelve scenarios is what are the financial implications of each of those now we don't have to have every number buttoned down but we should be able to directionally say here's what the capital investment is here's what the revenue is and that would give us a better feel for I think what we're

[Speaker 4] (54:47 - 58:12)
investing into as well hi my name is Charlie Patsy I think we should stop bashing bashing it bashing each other and someone comes up with an idea and someone doesn't like it and we sneer at it I think that's I think we could do better than that I think we could stop beating up the folks up at the front but maybe we can blame ourselves a little bit for not being as engaged as we might perhaps could have been it's interesting that we've heard senior said that we've heard I can't believe it yesterday was 25 today next next birthday 65 I'd love to be able to see a facility that's there that serves the needs of the the the seniors in the town there's a restaurant that's there today it's got a function facility we don't have one of those in town it's interesting that we have to go somewhere else and we're a seaside community yet we don't have any oceanfront dining let's think about that for a second we're getting rid of what we want for something that we think that we need and we don't understand the cost of the taxes that we're losing from that restaurant within the meals tax what Jimmy Smith said regarding that village atmosphere against the street let's not be so dismissive about that that has that has some good some good bones in my mind and it still allows the oceanfront area to be open and accessible maybe there's a maybe there's a way that a lot of these ideas can actually come together but if we if we take sides and we create teams in opposition to each other we'll never get anything done because we're not working together as a town and and you know that I was a bomb thrower I stood up a town meeting and I and I I could have been violent times I probably was but if you really want to turn the corner and swamp squad we really might need to work together I can I can say that I was a little disappointed in how this process came on I think people were surprised I think there was a library trustee that didn't even know about it but let's stop talking about the library because it seems to me that it's fairly dead if there's anybody here that supports a library could they raise the answer release we know there's some support okay one to let two hands okay so if I were the moderator I'd say that it's unanimous we don't want it but please Sean I heard you say something that you are willing to listen to new ideas and have a fresh approach and I think that given the turnout today and the way people feel I don't think we need to worry about a library right now the Conservancy wonderful people great ideas I don't think the whole site needs to be that I don't think the whole site needs to be any one thing take it leave it we can work together and get something that most of us will be happy with and I just urge everybody to take the high road right now and and let's let's give up all hope of a better past it's not going to change let's just work together and get something done and I'll pass the mic

[Speaker 13] (58:12 - 58:32)
thank you I I hi my name is Lou Straszulo precinct three before I go into feedback just quick question Sean who is the Dean the project manager for

[Speaker 1] (58:32 - 58:44)
this for this project HDR the consultant was the project manager they they we engage them to actually coordinate the entire project all right and then who

[Speaker 13] (58:44 - 1:00:46)
does who do they report to you me okay so my first feedback I would like to give is that there needs to be a local project manager to funnel this ideas whether it be one select person that puts together a team whether it be I think we started similar process that was coming together for the SOAR committee or something like that where there was a team of people you know it went through like a vetting process you know to put that and I'm not saying that that team makes the decisions but that will be the team that will funnel take everybody's suggestions and I'll go through them this way they can meet daily they can meet weekly they could they could then report to select board meetings they could then report to town meetings you could oversee it but I think that that team needs to have a project manager you know chairman of the board and then that team didn't they could then have delegates on their team that will then work with maybe different precincts so that so that this way it's an easier process right now what we see now is a project that came out bold print and you know of course you're gonna get that reaction you know I think at this point at this juncture we need to go back to the drawing board let's restructure the way we want the team let's funnel some idea new ideas and in this way we can actually piece together maybe what everybody likes you know and find a happy medium but it just you know it needs to be a better process but it starts with a project manager and it needs to be some people from from this town that sit on the board and that could have weekly meetings monthly

[Speaker 1] (1:00:46 - 1:01:44)
meetings with the ideas from the town I just want to share I think it's clear we need more stakeholders and we need more help we need more Swanson citizens to be bellwethers for things that perhaps may be more agreeable I don't think anybody here is married to one concept what we what we tried to do was throw something up that amalgamated a bunch of ideas it's clear you know this was a little you know too controversial and so we got to kind of dial it back and and kind of listen and see you know what else might be you know agreeable for folks I will say I'm I'm not opposed to the Conservancy's ideas I see that

[Speaker 22] (1:01:44 - 1:01:56)
vision and I I think that has a lot of merit as well so understood that's what

[Speaker 1] (1:01:56 - 1:02:25)
we're trying to do we're trying to take it and say how do we give a bunch of stakeholders a piece of something extraordinary I also just want to share there was a comment about parking we get that too and I you know we're working on some of those issues I don't have a lot to say about it tonight but you know we know that we've got to figure out some parking issues and and and yeah there'll be some updates on that that I hope will help people feel

[Speaker 21] (1:02:25 - 1:03:42)
like we're trying to pull it all together my name is my name is Steve Banks I'm on the Open Space Committee my name is Steve Banks I'm on the Open Space Committee and so obviously my bend is going to be to have an open space but my comment is more on the process well the next woman is the next person is a woman so as as I was saying there was you know I just want to reiterate the process comments as we looked at that word cloud we saw I saw park I saw I think I saw open we saw a view and then we saw three drawings which all looked like different version of parks and then we saw the library I love the creativity on getting somebody else to help do the cost I mean I like that idea but again I think process you know we saw certain certain steps in a process and then there was a big jump that was hard for hard for us to handle

[Speaker 6] (1:03:43 - 1:08:07)
I'm passing it to this young woman right here yes I've been in town for 82 years and this is my stomping ground down in this area I don't I've been a town meeting member my father was the he started Little League here in town my father was also started the Upper Swampskat Char State Improvement Parade that they have at the 4th of July my father was the founder of that and and I I'm the ground roots of Swampskat and I just want to let you people know what my idea is for this lovely area because I live there I live on Reddington Street I've been there for 60 years and I'm having a heck of a time restoring my old 1845 house and it's very difficult but I don't want you to panic but could we possibly in any way shape or form bring the General Glover they told me it's a very small portion of the General Glover to Humphrey Street that would be that would bring people to that area we could make it be a little shop I don't know what inside but then on either side and I have a picture in my Swampskater 1952 edition of the Swampskater and it has a picture of the Hawthorne being out on the street that's when the Hawthorne was out on Humphrey Street I would like to have stores there with maybe a couple of apartments up above I want that to be a destination place not a park God gave us the most wonderful park in the world and it goes from the down to the Red Rock area and that we've got all that space so why are you talking open space we have it all we have everything we have great parks and so someone also said to me I'm the one that got the sidewalk moved out at G's Little G's and Cafe Avellino I got a petition going because I said the sidewalk is disgusting and I want to bring the sidewalk out and they did and it's going to be great for those businesses and I want this whole little section to be a great destination place and it can be I don't think we understand that it can be a destination place and a great and so I would like to see stores out on the street I would we need we do need parking there was also some discussion that the town is negotiating with st. John's parking lot is is there any truth to that because I would prefer to put a boutique hotel out there in my st. John's parking lot I'm a member of st.

John's I went I graduated from st. John's school the Catholic school that was there if we could put the boutique held their hotel there because it's really a lousy terrible awful lousy crappy place to put the boutique hotel where Hadley school is and the reason Hadley school is no good my son is totally paralyzed from the neck down spinal cord injury I took him 15 years to law school he became a criminal defense attorney and shame on Swampskate Hadley schools not accessible reach out it's not accessible we keep making a mistake we keep buying the wrong property I have also owned a lot of property so I know what I'm talking about but Swampskate is not great as far as being accessible you can't be proud of yourself for any part of that at all but I just wanted to explain that I want that to be downtown and it could be a great wonderful pride of pride of your life to have a wonderful downtown right down there where the Hawthorne is so that's all I have to say I just want to

[Speaker 1] (1:08:07 - 1:09:11)
say Jean thank you just for full transparency I have been working for the last six years with st. John's about parking and so we've had ongoing conversations about how could we work together as a parish and as a community I think one of the biggest risks to accidents is right in front of that church we've had a couple of fatalities and and so it's important for us to kind of think about ways that we can help address parking but also public safety and I'm really pleased to say Monsignor McLaughlin is really been a wonderful partner to try to help us figure all of that out you are allowed to use it when the church is not in place we've the town has actually paved that parking lot and and we've got a relationship with the church but we have to be very respectful about the church's ability to use that lot when they need it hi my

[Speaker 27] (1:09:11 - 1:09:37)
name is Susan Lefkowitz and actually I was going to talk about what my name is Susan Lefkowitz and I was going to bring up the parking but we have already now beaten that to death in the last two speakers so I I'm gonna forget about that right now I just want to ask if the Hadley school is a done deal because I thought it was a done deal people are talking about not wanting it but it's a

[Speaker 1] (1:09:37 - 1:09:42)
done deal okay you will have a boutique hotel in this town okay and could you

[Speaker 16] (1:09:43 - 1:09:54)
instead of doing the bin item can you put all the information on the patch I think it will address the issues to go to more people than the item the item

[Speaker 1] (1:09:54 - 1:11:50)
reporter is sitting right behind our item reporter oh and I was thinking it was nice we had a young person here now I'm sorry yeah I as much as people might think that I am in charge of media I'm not I I do think you know we have some good local media we can do we can try to do a better job reaching out and getting more information you know I I did hear the comment about a monthly update and I do think we can actually put a monthly update out and just give everybody a sense that every month we're gonna have to figure out how to engage folks and really get this project moved because it's difficult just in case anybody is wondering this is difficult redeveloping anything is difficult but we've been doing difficult things for a while now you know we've got a hundred million dollar school we're gonna cut a ribbon on just closed on a property in Pine Street where we're gonna build 40 units of veterans housing that's difficult it's hard but it's important we bought open space behind Archer Street difficult but we need it and so we've been doing difficult things for a few years now we actually leveled the town's single-family tax bill for five years in a row built up our reserves and tried to put the town in a position to actually afford to buy a piece of open space property was one of the most difficult things that we could have ever done to negotiate every contract everybody here thank you I took one of your trash barrels to help balance the budget and help the town be more able to acquire things that frankly put us in a position here to engage with each other that does not excuse the fact that we have to be better and so thank you yes I do think transparency and process and and more options ten of them maybe twelve all of that can happen hi can

[Speaker 14] (1:11:50 - 1:13:58)
everybody hear me hi my name is Ashley I moved to Swampscott a couple years ago like many people to raise family and I when I look at that timeline of everything I kind of was like Oh 2022 June that was when breastfeeding wasn't working and I had a small kid like I I am just only recently kind of come like plugging into town issues and I think I'm probably the minority of people when I saw the proposal I was like oh I love this new library idea and but I understand that the process sort of the last couple years when I have been and a lot of other my parent friends in Swampscott have not necessarily been totally engaged I think my comment one of the first things I did when I read that proposal was like huh what's what's the library saying about it because I have a professional bias I am a professional librarian I'm a research reference librarian a corporate environment and so I went to the board the library board trustees meeting notes and I was kind of surprised to see that like you guys didn't know much about it and I was a little concerned that in reading you know all of the concerns of like what the library is looking for and like what my parent friends are looking for from library services in town is like you know there's all of this comp there's stuff about like the children's librarian is like overworked and there's all of these things that the library needs and I'm a little as much as I like the idea of having a new library I'm a little worried that it's sort of like a I really want to hear from the librarians from the staff like what they actually need because like I think it would be cool to have a library there I think there's some really good revenue generating ideas there I love the idea of having a public space where you don't have to spend money but you could also if you wanted to if you wanted to stop by the cafes and spend money on your way to library that'd be great like but I think what I would like to see regardless of whatever happens with that space if it's a municipal space where there's municipal staff be a library others like I would like to see their involvement to like be able to provide feedback because you know fundamentally you know a building with books is without librarians as a warehouse so like we I really want to hear from like the people who would actually be using a building there you

[Speaker 1] (1:13:58 - 1:16:03)
know actually I think those are wonderful points I will tell you that the library director and I have met many times to talk about this and he shared a very enthusiastic level of support for this concept now you can imagine a library director who's thinking about what is the 21st century library space look like and I can tell you from his perspective you know the space that our existing library is a little challenging it it looks like a lot of ordinary libraries but it doesn't have big spaces for teenagers for instance like we've got a space that we created in the basement that's awesome it's not that big and it's not that inspiring it's kind of dark and a little you know not not a lot of natural light and so when we think about music and art and community theater and all the things that inspire you know great things about a library the site across the street seemed a little bit more accessible to that type of you know community engagement that said I'm not a librarian I I work closely with one and I do think it would be helpful not to take this idea off the table when we look at 12 others there are 20 other ideas that we've maybe 30 that we heard over the last two years as we've been talking about what to do with this property I do think we can do pros and cons we can put the economics to all of them and we can circle back around and in and hear everybody share a thought or two about where they think consensus can be found because working towards consensus is what we're doing tonight it's actually part of a process yes you're you're not happy about some things and I'm we're taking all those notes down but this is ultimately gonna get to a point where we're all gonna say you know what this is what we think we can do with this property and it's not gonna make everybody happy but it's gonna make enough of us feel like this is how we activate this site and frankly the village or whatever it is that frankly people feel like we're missing build

[Speaker 19] (1:16:10 - 1:17:03)
build a manto precinct 6 town meeting member mr. town administrator I wish you would let just stop and let this library thing go my question is you say you've been talking to the library director about this for months and all of a sudden when this hit nobody knew anything and including the select board members that's no process I want to know what you're going to do to start this process again I knew everything you have heard here tonight said you got to go in a different direction Sean you got to do it you got to let this library thing go it's 35 million dollars please let it go it's the only way we can start what are you going to do how are you going to form a committee are you going to do

[Speaker 1] (1:17:03 - 1:17:40)
something what do you recommend a committee yes I will recommend to the select board that we appoint a blue ribbon Commission will appoint when we actually had a committee for the Hadley school we had over 20 residents appointed a committee I was on it until you throw me off of it remember I was going to compliment you bill you worked with us to actually come up with a concept that said hey you could think of a hotel you could think of turning it to you know senior housing a lot of things and so I do think that process worked and I think you know we need another blue ribbon Commission there's

[Speaker 19] (1:17:40 - 1:18:07)
enough energy here at the blue ribbons just get get something going we have lost 18 months in this what I consider foolishness of moving that library it's foolishness I can't believe you paid $10,000 for that or more I don't know what you paid but you got to start again it has to be that way take you say you want it on the table take it off the table let's go let's get something there

[Speaker 3] (1:18:07 - 1:19:35)
thank you are are we can is this on okay are we still paying H HDS or they finished with their contract they're finished okay and we haven't signed another we haven't signed on with anyone so we're sort of at the moment free of contracts yeah okay so so actually that's good so so one thing I would recommend is let's not rush to sign up another consultant yet I mean that that'll be necessary at some point but we're floundering a little and we're going to get our feet under us but once the town starts paying a consultant I know what happens the clock starts to run and you've got a limited number of meetings that they're going to give you and they're going to give you a limited number of hours so they can't hold our hand to teach us sort of an orientation so but the one suggestion I'd make for the immediate weeks is let's don't hire another consultant and then we'll figure out either either as Bill says either it's a committee or it's a group or whatever we'll figure out how to get our feet under us on our own dime and and so when we hire a consultant we'll be a little further down the road and we'll be able to properly direct them and in the contract can state what we want from

[Speaker 1] (1:19:35 - 1:19:51)
them and so forth and so on thanks Brian I like that idea hi my name is Mary Ellen

[Speaker 26] (1:19:51 - 1:20:25)
Fletcher precinct 4 and I'm on the select board so clearly we have to have a restart we're gonna do that nobody did any work here with any malice it was just a hiccup a big hiccup but we're all gonna get together the select board's gonna take a bigger responsibility we will have transparency and we will have better communication that will be guaranteed to you that will be laid out for you right after town meeting I can tell you every member of the select board wants to do it right and Sean wants to do it right too so just give it

[Speaker 25] (1:20:25 - 1:21:10)
a little patience I'm Beth Dennis I live in precinct 4 and as we might have noticed tonight there are not a lot of young adults people in their 30s and 40s with young children and others of us work outside of town and often cannot come to these meetings is it in the town's resources to have a centralized online location that can take feedback that can you know someplace where we can all go to stay part of this process so if you're gonna be transparent can it be transparent people who can't physically come to all these meetings without additional cost I'm on just that's a great comment you know when we

[Speaker 1] (1:21:10 - 1:22:41)
had the open house at the Hawthorne on a Saturday morning we actually thought on a Saturday morning maybe that would make it more accessible to folks that work during the week we've had ideas about having you know kind of a family event on the parking lot and trying to just bring people to the location so that they can actually walk through the building and just get a sense of the space in place and just develop a concept for the ideas it's hard it is hard to get people to engage we figured out how to do it though so we actually would like to do it by perhaps having more entertaining events but I you know parents are incredibly busy and it's very difficult to try to have the resources to do that is that gonna cost you know it's hard you know I think we can go back and look at it and see how do we make this a little bit more engaging how can we make it how can we update it every month to actually drive traffic to it and give people a sense that they can actually engage and give feedback on some ideas so I think we'll take that back and try to come up with some updates on how we improve engagement in the process and opportunities for folks to give feedback thank you just one follow-up I signed up

[Speaker 25] (1:22:41 - 1:22:44)
for the text messages the emails and I'm not getting them so I don't know how

[Speaker 1] (1:22:44 - 1:23:05)
many other people are in that situation also we we can we get a lot of complaints of folks that we're sending them many texts and messages so I will make sure that you get you know all of our robocalls and text messages okay Mary

[Speaker 18] (1:23:05 - 1:24:40)
Cassidy precinct 3 and I was here when Swampscott was the village and when Humphrey Street was the village center so I don't know that that's going to happen when we have Vinnin Square in the North Shore shopping center I don't know what kind of shops but you can think about that that would bring people down to town to the main part of town but I want to talk about the view some people are just disparaging the view to me that is the most beautiful view that there is in our town and it has to be something for all the people to enjoy not just people who are living there so I'm thinking of an open park for the people with some very interesting places in it perhaps the general Glover building but something where people and if you go down to Humphrey Street on a summer night people are getting ice creams they're getting pizza they're all over the streets wouldn't it be nice if they could go over there sit down have their ice cream go on Sunday and read the newspaper some benches with covers for people who don't want the heat in the sun there are so many things and it would be so beautiful to drive down Humphrey Street see some buildings and then see this gorgeous view even from your automobile it would be sailboats out on the water the skyline of Boston to your right it's absolutely the biggest and I think one of the most important parts of our town so that's

[Speaker 2] (1:24:40 - 1:25:06)
all I want to go say but I hope that that happens thank you Mary can you hear

[Speaker 9] (1:25:06 - 1:28:22)
me okay great sorry about that my apologies so great to hear so many voices there as we see so many people there it's it's really very exciting so just to beat the you know the point entirely process I've been you know yapping about it for a year now process is a huge problem in terms of how we get information out to our citizens and community members and how to draw folks in this this happened to speak to people and and people were really sucked in and and I think that's exciting you know I just want to point out you know we gave consulting money to this project it sounds like $10,000 right the Hadley use committee didn't get any consulting money you know to move their interests along and to investigate some of their we spent process $1,000 on the on the okay I apologize I didn't realize that that's good to know I know that there was money after it became you know solidly a hotel so in the the matrix in terms of process really does need to be I think really the first conversation so big projects like this and even small projects how do we draw people in what what ways are we doing that and then Sean it sounds like code red I'm sorry right now for this audience might be really helpful to just get you know everybody on that system because I I certainly don't get I don't get any more messages than I would want to get in fact I don't feel like I get sufficient ones to get information so I think it could be used even more completely and then just keep in mind what the community needs and I think the community needs opportunities to come together in space to come together so because we're you know we're losing a play field and playgrounds and four squares and swings and and some open space so how do we put some of that back in and and use that that we were losing it Hadley and a new location I think that those are always those are all very good important things and one last thing I'm so sorry I have a terrible cold we were we're just our big vision we're really losing our historic nature you know particularly in the last year there's just been a lot of misses on our historic lands and I just think it is it's really a superpower that we want to maintain support and the thought that you know the library wouldn't be just money wouldn't be put into the library to enhance it and make it a more today version of what you know what a library is and I understand that those are morphed I think that some changes have been made just in terms of moving furniture in the library and it's been magnificent so small changes can go a long way and obviously I would like to see us putting money into our historic buildings so thank you for listening

[Speaker 11] (1:28:29 - 1:31:29)
hi can everyone hear me my name is Jenna Arsenault I live right here in Essex Street a proud mom of three I go to the Swampscott Public Schools at first you know thought of this idea when I saw it it kind of took me off guard you know we're about to invest 35 million dollars I put a couple of numbers around but in that range on a building that isn't necessarily needed I think that opinion has been unanimous for the most part in this room and among the community especially with parents I feel like I'm one of the younger people in the room which speaks a lot to when these meetings are held it is really hard I had to skip dinner with my family to be here but I found it really important to be here and have my voice heard 37 or 35 or however many million dollars invested into something that we already have a sufficient building for it took me off guard because I've had quite a struggle with my special needs child in the school system and it's always it's always coming back to funding we're always getting told well it's not in the budget I had to fight for a solid year and a half to get her services that she she really needs we have them now thankfully but it was a fight so for the budgeting alone I was like I have to go to this next meeting through hell or high water I'm gonna be there with that said also I know what the new school there was a lot of hoopla about that people wanted it people didn't I was all for it are we gonna see a vote for this as a ballot question I think that's a way to get people involved that can't be at these meetings maybe people are watching online I know I find myself watching select board meetings at nine o'clock at night after it's over to chime in to just stay you know informed as a young mom and maybe I'm not that young but I have young kids a mom of young kids and I've kind of found the the rage inside me to like be present as much as possible and I feel like that's a unanimous thing from a lot of the committees in town is find a way to show up you know go to select board meetings and plead for more budget but not everyone's getting the full story so I and I feel like there's been some heavy censorship around this project online especially social media things are getting deleted off some you know maybe they're not town related pages but swans got an ass being one of them heavy censorship on this where people are posting I know I've posted to share information it gets deleted so we're trying to find every outlet to share information I have some text going with parents so we want to be involved it's very hard for us our kids play sports on Saturday mornings I have a son that plays on two hockey teams baseball lacrosse you name it he's he's involved in it it's hard to do it with multiple children at home or any children at home I'm also a mom with a disability so that makes it difficult to you so I think there's so much to consider when you're pleading to get involved we've only had 400 people it's not accommodating I think the online suggestion for more people to have like hey I'm up at midnight and I can catch myself up let me write that comment right here cuz I can't show up at all of these meetings I think that's just something to consider that's all I have to say for now thank you

[Speaker 4] (1:31:32 - 1:33:00)
thanks Jenna is there anybody else that would like to speak we can fund things through a CPA which guarantees that these things get done and they get done in a very managed way I believe that that coupled with an event like tonight and events like this that will be in the future would help us all get our ideas documented and evaluated it's very important though so I forget who said I think it was Brian the pluses and the minuses for each one because just because you can build an ice cream factory in normal ask it doesn't mean you should and and just because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean it's the right time to do it I just think that if we can have that Sean I think I've heard you say a couple of times that we're gonna have a process that a lot of people can put in what you just said was great you might not be able to get there but having a mechanism to be able to put those comments out there was it was it probably one of the better ideas tonight thank you yeah I

[Speaker 24] (1:33:01 - 1:33:56)
Dave picture precinct one time meeting man I think it's abundantly clear that we need better process and I think you guys have gotten that probably so you hopefully that is better going forward and there's more transparency and things like that but I'd also say that you know we have a ton of ideas everybody has ideas including myself about what we want to go in that space and I'm not going to go into any of those because there's a ton of ideas out there and it's gonna be a process to go through them and in the end hopefully enough people are happy but not everybody's going to be happy and you know maybe we find someone who actually has a vision for that space that you know in 20 years people look back and say wow that was a great use of that space but you know when we do it now you know maybe half the people are pissed off about it who knows but you know at least we'll have a process to go through and find a better space I mean not everybody like the idea of Central Park in New York when it's proposed as a giant open space and can you imagine New York without it now

[Speaker 1] (1:33:57 - 1:34:01)
that's a homestead we got homestead here too so now everybody like the idea of

[Speaker 24] (1:34:01 - 1:34:05)
the Eiffel Tower when that was being built yeah Dave I appreciate that look I

[Speaker 1] (1:34:05 - 1:36:36)
knew look we knew that we were presenting something bold and it was gonna galvanize attention yep we knew that we it was gonna be so dramatic and it was gonna come out I think it was a mistake in thinking let's let's give everybody something really exciting in and and this is the backlash you know the thought was you know slow rolling it may have kind of a few meetings it would have kind of we've had less of attention people would have said oh you know we would have had a reaction but it it wouldn't have been as you know dramatic and there's a positive and negative to that I just want to say like the fact that you're all here we desperately need you to be engaged this is a democracy and the fact that we never have people here that's a problem you know so I don't I you might think oh geez you know the town administrator is really upset about that I'm not I actually believe that I need you to be more engaged and and I need younger people too and I I don't go to book face I don't go to social media sites because frankly a lot of the vitriol on those sites it's just depressing and it's upsetting I have two 12 year olds and a 14 or I can't like just read all the vitriol and somehow have a mental health state that actually says I can get out of bed in the morning and feel like I can go and and convince people to buy an oceanfront piece of property because the fact that we bought that was inconceivable five years ago it was inconceivable the Swampskate could actually have enough free cash or stabilization funds to actually go out and say let's start investing in ourselves for once you know Swampskate hasn't had a great legacy of decades of making important investments in open space but now we've figured that out but we got to get better at this and I'm committed to working with the select board and frankly our conservation and conservancy and our planning boards and our open space and rec commissions and we have so many volunteers and citizens that care deeply about this town as you as do you we can figure this out but we do need to be a little patient with each other and careful with how we speak to each other I'm not gonna go anywhere so if anybody didn't want to get up and give a speech you can come down and talk to me