[Speaker 28] (0:29 - 2:04)
. .

[Speaker 5] (2:34 - 5:06)
. . .

Welcome to the May 29, 2024, Select Board Meeting. This meeting is being recorded. If everyone could rise and perhaps Mr. John DiPietro could lead us in the pledge.

[Speaker 21] (5:14 - 5:28)
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[Speaker 5] (5:30 - 6:04)
Thank you. Just before we get started, this is our first meeting post town meeting. Yeah, just really want to thank all the town meeting members for getting out there and braving the elements and three nights of town meetings.

So a big thank you to all, to everyone who participated, and also a big thank you to town staff, as well as all the volunteers from all the boards and committees. So job well done. Thank you.

We'll move on to the town administrator's report.

[Speaker 1] (6:14 - 10:25)
Thank you, David. We'll keep this brief. We have a number of presentations tonight that will focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion.

I want to thank town staff and a number of board members for helping us finalize a really robust respondent list from an RFP. These are some of the most important conversations we'll have as a community. And certainly look forward to working with a firm that can really help us evaluate where our strengths are and where the opportunities are to really continue to build a more inclusive Swampskip.

I want to echo your comments, David, about town meeting. Democracy. Complicated.

But I want to thank the board members for your leadership. It's impressive when we work together and we can really speak and have a conversation with town meeting members about the importance of just the balance of municipal fiduciary responsibilities. I think we can help continue the progress that we're making.

You know, we've made some progress over the last few years with our financial position and it's going to take a lot of work to hold on to that. I'm really pleased to report that we continue to work towards a settlement with Wholesome and Aggregate. The Board of Health did vote to support a proposed settlement, so hopefully in the next week or so we'll have bigger news to report to the community.

We are moving forward with coordinating a neighborhood meeting. I know Select Board Member Leonard had asked us to coordinate this, you know, a few weeks ago, but we've scheduled June 11th at 6 p.m. at the high school in this room and on Zoom to really listen to the neighbors and talk a little bit about the work that is going to occur over the next few months as we gear up to cut a ribbon on a brand new elementary school that will serve all the elementary school students in Swampskip.

Community development's been busy. Last week we had divers conducting boring work, geotechnical work on the pier. We have a number of rain barrels.

You can collect a rain barrel for $89 and help us be a little cleaner and greener. And Master Plan Committee will have their first meeting this week. Incredibly important committee, Master Plans have been proven to hold up in courts in terms of municipal priorities, so it's important that that Master Plan reflects the vision for what Swampskip hopes to be.

And we're working on our hazardous mitigation plan with NAPC. We did receive a grant of $5,000 from NAPC that will help us update this. This is critical to helping the town secure additional grants.

Lastly, I want to just thank Swampskip citizens, but our Tree Committee, our VFW, our veterans agent for some of the extraordinary programs that we had in Swampskip over the weekend. We had flags on Monument Ave. We had Tree Committee dedication and rededication for a number of veterans who gave their lives for our freedoms. And we had a very poignant and special Memorial Day event and certainly appreciate the attendance of a number of select board members.

But really, you know, very few communities do as much to really think about the importance of Memorial Day in Swampskip, and I hope that tradition continues. My report.

[Speaker 5] (10:25 - 10:52)
Thanks, Sean. Questions, comments from the board? I don't have anything else, so we will move on to public comment.

Public comment is where residents can rise and address the body with topics that are not currently on our agenda. If you're here to speak about ARPA funds, you will have the opportunity to do so when we get to that point of our agenda.

[Speaker 18] (11:00 - 11:49)
Hello. Luis Rizzullo, Farragut Road. I'll be speaking later on ARPA, but just wanted to reiterate thoughts that I spoke on about the Anthony's PF4.

I'm just hoping that the select board town administrator would take it seriously to put a committee together, a group leader, and possibly put together a group of committee of townspeople, possibly 10, 15, just so that we can have a group that can actually funnel the thoughts and properly communicate everything, you know, that's overseen by a chairman, and then obviously can report back to the town administrator and select board. Thank you.

Thanks, Lou. Yes. Next.

[Speaker 26] (11:52 - 12:46)
Hello. My name is Lillian Worthley. I live at 189 Burrill Street.

I'm here to respectfully but ardently urge the select board and the broader town government to approve any necessary expenditures around our climate action and resiliency plan. These include a sustainability manager for the town as well as resiliency measures resulting in 100,000 and 200,000 respectively. I graduated college with a degree in climate science and statistics.

I've since worked in the solar industry, municipal clean energy advocacy, as well as grassroots organizing, and I can say without a doubt, having a sustainability coordinator is one of the most impactful things this town could do to move our climate action plan forward. So I would like to reiterate that that is incredibly important, and I would like for you to finally approve those funds so that we can get forward with our climate action plan. Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (12:46 - 12:59)
Thank you. Oh, Diane, there's a hand on Teams. Sure.

Hi, Steve.

[Speaker 17] (13:04 - 13:05)
Hi.

[Speaker 4] (13:13 - 13:14)
I'm sorry for the delay.

[Speaker 21] (13:18 - 13:53)
I wanted to just bring attention to the impressive comment that was made by Doug Thompson during this meeting last night, too, where it was indicated that there would be a significant effort to discuss and decide on whether there would be a change in the budget baseline of the 2% plus growth plan that is out of place.

[Speaker 5] (13:54 - 14:19)
I was the first to admit that I haven't begun to suggest a question, but it is imperative that this discussion occur before the budget planning occurs, so within several months so that people know how it's going to affect the school budget. Thank you. Thanks, Steve.

[Speaker 20] (14:27 - 14:44)
Hi, Andrea Moore, Precinct 3 Town Meeting Member. I think I walked in at a time when, David, you may have mentioned, to save comments about things that are on tonight for later. Respectfully, I'm hoping to be able to make a comment now, since I won't be able to be here.

I'll have to watch my kids later, if that's okay.

[Speaker 21] (14:44 - 14:45)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 20] (14:45 - 16:36)
Okay. Thank you. So, I just wanted to say that I'm happy to see the conversation about ARPA be back on the table this evening.

I, as a New Town Meeting Member, I take representation incredibly seriously, and I believe that sometimes, even though I don't agree with what my represented body wants to do, I do believe it's really important to listen to them, and I don't believe that the way the ARPA funds were voted on was reflective of what the body and the community wanted. They stated multiple times, you know, especially with the survey that was put out to the community, you know, over 40% of people wanted to see ARPA funds specifically allocated to the sewers, and I really believe that having that kind of be a flip-flop. Well, I'm also very grateful and glad to see that Town Meeting approved significant funds to improve the sewers.

I still believe that it's really important for the town to feel like they're being listened to, and if people feel like their input is not worth anything, we're going to lose them, and we don't want that. We want as many voices as possible to shape our community, but if they feel like they're putting time and effort into these surveys and these meetings and these, you know, like big tabling events that we have, and then it's being pushed aside, we're going to lose them as engaged audience members and engaged people in our community. So I would just urge that they feel like there is some amount of, like, reflection in what they are doing as a community is seen in the, you know, in the big stage here, let's say.

So that would be my urge, and again, I thank you for putting it back on the table this evening.

[Speaker 5] (16:36 - 16:53)
Thank you. All right. Seeing no additional hands in the room or on teams, we will move on.

Do we have to wait until 7 o'clock to continue the public hearing?

[Speaker 7] (16:56 - 16:58)
It never ended.

[Speaker 5] (16:59 - 17:06)
It never ended. Okay. All right.

Do I have a motion to continue the public hearing on Dockside's alteration of premises?

[Speaker 27] (17:06 - 17:08)
So moved. Second. All right.

[Speaker 5] (17:08 - 17:15)
All in favor? Aye. Aye.

All right. We will continue with the public hearing on Dockside's alteration of premises.

[Speaker 1] (17:20 - 17:39)
Just as an update to the board, I did have the building commissioner head down, measure the sidewalk. There is ample space for tables and egress for a wheelchair. There's 48 inches.

He feels comfortable that that can be moved up.

[Speaker 4] (17:40 - 17:41)
Okay. Yes, sir.

[Speaker 23] (17:42 - 18:08)
Hello again. Andrew Injume, 7 Juniper Road, Dockside Pub. So I'm glad to hear that.

I think that was the number one concern, is to make sure that we have wheelchair accessibility going in the sidewalk area. So I don't know what else I can add, generally speaking. That wasn't talked about last time.

[Speaker 4] (18:08 - 18:58)
I think that was a good point. At least I recall, Marilyn, you brought up and had some concerns about. And once you said that, as I was driving by, I started to wonder and had concerns, actually, because there is a mailbox there, and whether or not you really could navigate around.

So I went there just before the meeting, took a picture, measured it to confirm. I didn't know that Steve had done it. So I actually talked with Andrew 45 minutes ago.

He happened to be there. Seeing me, like, walking with my feet, measuring out the sidewalk. And so I do think if the tables are placed appropriately, back from the mailbox, in appropriate places, that there is enough room.

And I think we need to make sure, Sean, that I'm not sure necessarily there's four feet everywhere where there are tables out along Humphrey Street. So we're going to be like. Eight feet wide.

[Speaker 7] (18:59 - 18:59)
Not all the way.

[Speaker 4] (19:00 - 19:12)
No, I'm talking about other restaurants. Okay. I think we're going to be very persnickety, which we should be.

Here, we need to make sure we are being, you know, similar everywhere. But in this case, I feel comfortable. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (19:13 - 19:35)
I'll certainly follow up with our building department and have them go out and just make sure that access along that corridor is free from impediments. We do not want anybody in this community that has a wheelchair or has a loved one that needs strollers, you know, space. That should be a priority.

And we'll make sure that that's the case.

[Speaker 4] (19:35 - 19:40)
I mean, I love the outdoor dining. I don't want to stop that. But I just want to make sure we're being fair all along.

[Speaker 1] (19:40 - 19:47)
Very much, you know, we'll make that a priority. And we'll get an update to the board over the next two weeks.

[Speaker 3] (19:47 - 19:49)
Can you speak to when the kitchen closes?

[Speaker 23] (19:51 - 20:05)
I think the kitchen closes for cooked material around 11. And then we have chowder and shrimp cocktail and chips until we close.

[Speaker 3] (20:05 - 20:44)
So, I guess, I don't think that there's currently a restriction now about timing for outdoor dining. But I think if we were to pass this, we might want to think about maybe the last seating being 9 o'clock or 9.30 so that people aren't out there past 10, 10.30 eating and causing noise for the neighbors in the neighborhood. Obviously, things quiet down all along the street sort of around that time.

So, it's just something. I don't know if anybody else had really thought about that. But, obviously, I understand you guys do a great experience post-dining room being open.

But maybe that experience can stay inside.

[Speaker 7] (20:46 - 21:00)
What time? Do we know what time dining ends at the other restaurants nearby? I don't know.

Where is Matt?

[Speaker 8] (21:04 - 21:10)
Like Nordhaven, Cafe Avellino, G Bar. Yeah, G Bar, Little G.

[Speaker 7] (21:10 - 21:11)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (21:11 - 21:12)
I don't honestly know.

[Speaker 7] (21:13 - 21:25)
So, I did go over with my measuring tape on Sunday morning. And the only issue that you really have is up by the mailbox. And I'm sure you would figure that out.

[Speaker 23] (21:25 - 21:38)
Yes. There will be a four-foot way to go. And so, basically, when you get to the mailbox, the wheelchair would be turning to the right and then turning to the left to go past it.

And that will be all clear four feet around.

[Speaker 7] (21:39 - 21:55)
So, I have a little bit of a problem with the wheelchair having to make a right and a left. You know, I think that when I looked at it, it looked like you did have enough room for straight through if your tables were closer to the wider section.

[Speaker 23] (21:57 - 21:58)
I suppose so.

[Speaker 4] (22:00 - 22:06)
Do you mean, Mariel, that the tables would be on the street side and you'd have a straight through pathway closer to the restaurant?

[Speaker 7] (22:06 - 22:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (22:07 - 22:08)
So, the tables wouldn't be all the way out near the curb?

[Speaker 7] (22:09 - 22:24)
Yeah. So, those squares that are in the front are like four feet too. And I think if you have your tables over there, I mean, I don't care where you put your tables, honestly.

I just want to make sure if a wheelchair or a stroller has to go straight down there, that they're going straight down, that they're not jigger-jaggering around.

[Speaker 23] (22:28 - 22:45)
I mean, okay. I mean, when you get to G-Bar, I mean, the city built out an entire island for them that they have to go like this now, right? So.

[Speaker 3] (22:46 - 22:50)
It's not straight there. Have we thought about building out that parking spot in front?

[Speaker 23] (22:50 - 22:52)
We've actually started to look.

[Speaker 3] (22:52 - 22:56)
And have his tables there rather than even talking about the sidewalk at all?

[Speaker 1] (22:56 - 23:40)
Yep. We actually have started to look at that. We've run out of grant funding that allowed us to move forward with that.

Budget's frozen. I have to get to July 1st. But, you know, as soon as we get to July 1st, I think there may be an opportunity to get out and work with Mr. and Jemmy and see if there's a possibility. We've talked about maybe a short-term strategy of putting out some Jersey barriers, having them painted, you know, nautical themes, and maybe even coming up with more egress. We want our small businesses to be successful, but we absolutely must have, you know, a safe way to access our sidewalks for everybody. So that is an opportunity for us to collaborate and make it all work.

[Speaker 3] (23:40 - 23:48)
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a much better solution than having people sort of have to navigate.

Yeah.

[Speaker 23] (23:49 - 23:53)
I mean, that is more ideal, obviously, but in the interim, I suppose.

[Speaker 7] (23:53 - 23:56)
I mean, you would lose one parking space in front there.

[Speaker 16] (23:57 - 23:59)
The town will lose one parking space.

[Speaker 7] (24:00 - 24:31)
Right. The town will lose one parking space. That's a good point.

So, my other concern is the noise, people sitting outside, because your permit right now is until 1 a.m., and that's the concern I have is people sitting outside and drinking or eating until after 10 and having, you know, more street noise. That's a concern. The music is a concern.

I don't know if you thought about turning that off.

[Speaker 23] (24:31 - 24:33)
It's been turned off since the last meeting.

[Speaker 7] (24:33 - 24:34)
Oh, great.

[Speaker 3] (24:34 - 24:35)
The outdoor music.

[Speaker 7] (24:35 - 24:42)
Outdoor music. And then the bag toss game, that's the other concern that I have is the noise coming from that.

[Speaker 3] (24:44 - 24:46)
I don't think that's out. Is it right now?

[Speaker 7] (24:46 - 24:47)
Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (24:47 - 24:50)
It is? Yeah. With the tables and the waitresses walking back and forth?

[Speaker 23] (24:50 - 24:51)
It's just like on the side of the fence.

[Speaker 3] (24:51 - 24:52)
Okay.

[Speaker 23] (24:52 - 24:56)
Just kind of out of the way. I mean, it's something for the kids to do.

[Speaker 7] (24:56 - 25:10)
I understand. But my concern is the people that live right there, and their windows are right there, and if they have to hear bang, bang, bang. I want him to do really well.

I also want to keep the peace over there.

[Speaker 5] (25:10 - 25:22)
I mean, understood. I mean, you know, we also approved your entertainment license, Andrew, when? In November, December?

Yeah, that changed, yes, around that time.

[Speaker 21] (25:22 - 25:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (25:23 - 25:29)
So, I mean, we're not relitigating the entertainment license. No. We're just trying to communicate.

[Speaker 23] (25:30 - 25:38)
And then, so the last thing I heard about disturbances, which was last meeting, I took care of that immediately. Right. Like I said, I would.

[Speaker 8] (25:39 - 25:50)
I appreciate that, because that was something I think we mentioned to him at the last meeting, and you certainly didn't have to, and you did that. So that says something, and I appreciate it.

[Speaker 23] (25:50 - 25:50)
Thank you.

[Speaker 8] (25:50 - 26:05)
But hopefully the neighbors also appreciate it, and there can be a comfortable or more comfortable relationship between the neighbors, because we want both sides to be comfortable. That's a good effort.

[Speaker 1] (26:06 - 26:58)
I've had a number of conversations with Mr. and Jenny about being a good neighbor. I do think he really does aspire to be a good neighbor. He recognizes these relationships are important.

We want our small businesses to feel supported, but we also want our neighborhoods to feel like things are out of whack. Music's too loud. People playing cornhole too late.

We don't want to micromanage everything, but we certainly expect neighborhoods to be neighborly, and Humphrey Street's a neighborhood, and we expect the businesses there to just be good neighbors. Andrew, I think turning off the music, that reflects, I think, a step in the right direction. Hopefully people are from that, and they will go down and support your business, and you'll be that much more successful because of it.

[Speaker 5] (26:59 - 27:49)
Most importantly, Mr. and Jenny lives in Swampscott. He's a Swampscott resident. You can find him and his wife and his children all over town.

I think Dockside Pub is such an incredible amenity and resource for our town, and the fact that there's been a very considerable investment that's made in Swampscott, and really giving people a sense of place and being able to go and enjoy a meal, enjoy a cocktail, or a beverage is something that this town so desperately needed. Thank you. I'm fully in support of this plan.

I wish we had more Dockside Pubs. I wish we had more Mr. and Jenny's in town.

[Speaker 1] (27:51 - 27:55)
We have liquor licenses. Somebody wants to have another one? We do.

[Speaker 5] (27:55 - 27:56)
How many do we have, Sean?

[Speaker 4] (27:59 - 27:59)
Four open.

[Speaker 15] (28:00 - 28:10)
For restaurants. I think it's restaurants, and then brick-and-mortar stores. That's for all.

I want to say it's like six for maybe wine and malt. I can't remember exactly. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (28:13 - 29:03)
To say one last thing, too, although we're granting this right to Dockside Pub, it is a right we're all going to be able to enjoy, and it's no mistake. We talked about it at the last meeting. I frequent Dockside.

My kids love it there. We have a great time. I think there's an effort being made to be neighborly and to try to work out the relationships.

It's a work in progress, as all relationships are. It takes work every day. Hopefully, we continue to see the work being put in, and hopefully we can make this work.

This is not just a benefit to your business. It's a benefit to town. At that, I would like to make a motion to open.

Are we opening it to public comment? It is. Great.

Then I will make a motion.

[Speaker 23] (29:04 - 29:38)
I'll say one last thing. I'm just so appreciative to be able to take this opportunity and make this business in the town that I moved my family here and I love. Thank you for everybody in town.

I appreciate the support. I'm just very excited about the response from town. I hope everybody is enjoying it.

I will do my part as a neighbor, which I feel like I hope I showed. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.

[Speaker 16] (29:39 - 33:46)
Yes, ma'am. Yes. Moira Farrell, 16 Blaine Circle.

I bought Dockside Restaurant. I'm also a pedestrian that no longer walks that side of the street. That is the beginning of the curve of people heading west, and the sunlight in the afternoons and the traffic between 2 and 6, including double parked cars, delivery trucks that are often parked in front of that mailbox.

That curve as the sun sets is extremely dangerous. We have Mr. Grimes' driveway. We have Dockside.

We have a very dangerous parking lot at Dockside where people are backing out, not looking for pedestrians coming from the U-turn. There are U-turners. The town wants to raise money.

Just have a cop stand there for an afternoon, and you'd raise like $2,000 or $3,000 worth of fines. There's constant U-turns in front of G's and Dockside. I think that to bump—you're talking about bumping out that circle and that curve in such a small place where there are egresses.

There are three egresses within a shorter distance than the length of this table. It's dangerous. I think that it's—frankly, I think it's irresponsible and hope that it's a successful business and people have a good time, but at what expense?

In addition to that, this restaurant is successful, and more tables generate more garbage. The more outdoor dining generates French fries falling, beer spilt, liquor spilt. We are having an invasion of rats in Bellini Circle and the other streets near us.

I occasionally saw rats during my almost 30-year tenure at my residence. Now I see them often. They're not always good about closing the garbage lids, particularly the side garbage lid.

It's often open. This is not—I think this is really this amount of volume of people coming and going out of the parking lot, and the volume of business can't be sustained in such a small footprint. It needs to slow down.

People on Humphrey Street need to slow down. This is a very dangerous proposition. Sean, I'm very much opposed of you bumping out that section.

It's already screwed up between that U-turn. It's very dangerous, and there have been people killed. I've known since I've lived here, three people have been killed in that block from St. John to Dockside. Again, public endangerment. There are people walking dogs with baby carriages that are dodging vehicles coming and going in between the U-turn and Dockside. I think it's a very bad idea, again, for cleanliness and for public safety.

Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (33:47 - 33:52)
Thank you, Ms. Farrell. Ms. Cohen.

[Speaker 1] (33:57 - 34:54)
I just want to share that, look, I hear you about the pedestrian safety issues on Humphrey Street. I'm familiar with the fatalities. I'm familiar with how dangerous it is.

I've seen a young child be struck by a vehicle. It haunts me. It haunts me about every responsibility that I have in this town.

Thinking about how dangerous every intersection in this town is, is one of our biggest challenges. We won't put a bump out without having a public safety team and traffic officials down there to look at every way to make it safe. That said, the beautiful corridor, we're going to try to make sure that we can help these small businesses be successful.

I don't want to catastrophize everything around this. The issues with rodents is real. We can get the public health department down there.

[Speaker 16] (34:54 - 34:59)
I've just been quoted $1,000 a year to get rid of those.

[Speaker 1] (34:59 - 35:51)
Understood. I just want you to call me. If you have these issues, pick up the phone.

We will get down there immediately. We can help balance these issues. I'll work with the businesses.

We have a lot of businesses in Swampskip that do not properly manage their waste. It's not just on Humphrey Street. It's in Vennon Square.

We have issues with coyotes. We have issues with wildlife that, frankly, endanger wildlife because of that irresponsible behavior. We need to get better training.

We'll work with a lot of these businesses to ensure that they can be proper stewards of their environmental responsibility. I, frankly, don't want to see coyotes euthanized because they're trying to get french fries. They're running around trying to get rodents on Humphrey Street.

That's a problem we can fix. We need to hear about it.

[Speaker 3] (35:51 - 37:47)
The other thing I just wanted to bring up about the rodent mitigation measures. I know that there has been a significant issue in that area, including Lin Scott Park, Town Hall Lawn. There's been a very serious issue with a rat infestation.

I think that I am not saying that that issue is not important, does not need to be taken care of. I think it's unfair to put that all on the backs of Dockside. I think, as the town administrators stated, there are many restaurants on that stretch.

Maybe they all could be doing better, and we could be facilitating a little bit more education and a little bit more oversight over how it's happening, not just at Dockside, but along that entire street with restaurants, and even how the town handles its trash outside. You go to the gazebo, and that waste barrel is overflowing with pet feces and ice cream cones. To make sure that that's emptied more frequently, I've already talked to Sean about having trash receptacles that are more rodent resistant, so that they're not getting into the bottom and pulling out trash and then leaving it so it looks like pet owners are not being responsible.

A lot of what's happened in the last month with regards to some of that waste on Town Hall Lawn is not pet owners. It's rodents actually getting into the trash and pulling those items out of the trash, and then nobody's picking them up, obviously, until DPW comes around to clean up. There are a lot of issues that for sure have to be managed, and I think that we can work to do that, but that shouldn't stop small business progress in that area if we can all work together to make sure that it's on the forefront of each of their mind and not just on the back of one particular restaurant.

[Speaker 5] (37:48 - 37:56)
I very much agree. Additional comments, questions? Oh, sorry.

Lou, go ahead.

[Speaker 18] (37:58 - 39:35)
I just wanted to speak real quick on two things. One, dockside, but if I can speak just a little bit on rat control, because it kind of ties in. I mean, I visit dockside very much.

I've seen great strides with keeping rodents and keeping things clean in that area. One of the biggest things I do see on Humphrey Street, and I don't think it's as much the owners or the restaurant's fault, and not blaming the town, but I think that the trash that we see in the over, I mean, kids with ice cream, you know, piling up over, I would love to see an overall of the trash bins and changing it to the solar type barrels, the trash compactor. I've seen a change, I'm going to mention it again, in Boston, of when the trash, you know, it compacts it, keeps it closed, keeps it confined.

I work for the state. I go to different towns, and I see they have these, too, and I see it better. It's better than being so open.

I mean, squirrels can jump in and stop pulling things out, but these barrels, they have the pump on the floor so that you don't have to touch it, and it's trash compacting. It keeps it, it will keep more things confined. So I would like to see the town look into this, possibly do an overall on that street, and I guarantee you it will be through the roof on the climbing rest with that.

[Speaker 8] (39:35 - 39:38)
Thanks. Thanks, Lou. It's a good suggestion.

[Speaker 4] (39:40 - 39:57)
All right, I'll make the dangerous move to make a motion to approve this amendment to Dockside's premises as reflected in their applications.

[Speaker 3] (39:58 - 39:58)
Second.

[Speaker 4] (39:59 - 39:59)
All in favor?

[Speaker 7] (40:00 - 40:11)
I just have one question on that. What happens with the, as far as the timing of people sitting outside? Are we making any changes to that, or would you say that?

[Speaker 4] (40:11 - 40:34)
I didn't think we are allowed to in this context. I think we've made a request to the proprietor for him to responsibly respond to that. Yep.

And, you know, this can always be revoked, this one we're approving tonight, I suppose. But, you know, I think that's a slightly separate issue, but obviously can After 9 o'clock. Yep.

Understood. Okay, so we have a motion, we have a second.

[Speaker 5] (40:35 - 40:35)
All in favor?

[Speaker 16] (40:36 - 40:36)
Aye.

[Speaker 5] (40:37 - 40:58)
Thank you. All right. We'll move on to discussion and possible vote on a selection of a DE&I consultant.

For this, we do have, we have Pete Kane, as well as Katie Taylor. And help us.

[Speaker 3] (40:58 - 41:02)
Are we going to be able to get them to present this early? Because we're early, right?

[Speaker 15] (41:03 - 41:03)
No.

[Speaker 3] (41:10 - 41:16)
7.30. It says 7.30, so I wonder if we might do another section of the agenda.

[Speaker 4] (41:17 - 41:17)
Sure.

[Speaker 3] (41:18 - 41:20)
I don't know, we'll see. Let's see what Peter says.

[Speaker 5] (41:22 - 41:27)
We're not going to have time to do that right now. Maybe we can address the consent agenda.

[Speaker 3] (41:29 - 41:33)
It looks like folks are on, so hold on. I see hands being raised.

[Speaker 5] (41:33 - 41:33)
All right.

[Speaker 3] (41:33 - 41:36)
Hey, we're here. We see you.

[Speaker 5] (41:36 - 41:36)
Welcome.

[Speaker 3] (41:41 - 41:44)
I think Nicole is from HCH, so.

[Speaker 4] (41:44 - 41:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (41:44 - 41:46)
That's great. Thank you for raising your hand, Nicole.

[Speaker 4] (41:47 - 41:53)
Will we just have one? Are they all hearing each other, or just one at a time?

[Speaker 3] (41:54 - 41:56)
We're going to present them one at a time. They're going to present one at a time.

[Speaker 4] (41:56 - 41:59)
One team at a time. But are they all listening in to each other?

[Speaker 3] (42:00 - 42:03)
Yes. Some of them are part of the meeting, so they're going to, for sure.

[Speaker 15] (42:04 - 42:08)
It is a public meeting, so they have the ability if they wanted to. I think.

[Speaker 12] (42:09 - 42:17)
I'm sorry to interrupt. This is Nicole from HCH. My team's here.

If you want to start early, if not, we'll wait until 7.30. Whatever is good for you.

[Speaker 3] (42:17 - 42:23)
Yeah, I think we can start, Nicole. I think we'll just give a little sort of background on the processes and how we got here. That's okay?

[Speaker 15] (42:24 - 42:24)
Sure.

[Speaker 3] (42:24 - 42:25)
Are you ready to do it, or yeah?

[Speaker 15] (42:25 - 42:26)
Do you want me to go?

[Speaker 3] (42:26 - 42:28)
Go ahead. I'll fill in the blanks.

[Speaker 15] (42:28 - 43:32)
So, last year, we released a request for proposals for a diversity, equity, and inclusion consulting firm to provide services to the town in order to help improve our operations, our hiring, our personnel management, our outreach, and to be cognizant of diversity, equity, and inclusivity. Through that process, we had seven responses, very thorough responses. Our selection committee actually interviewed all the teams, and then we did a short listing, and we have brought forward three of the top teams that we felt would be best to provide the services to the community.

And so, tonight, we have those three teams all available remotely. They've all prepared their presentations. Each team will be given ten minutes to give their presentation, and then we will do question and answer for ten minutes from the board and the public, if the public has any questions.

[Speaker 3] (43:33 - 44:57)
Yeah, I think, just to expand on some of what Pete said, DE&I, the suggestion of DE&I and the addition of it to last year's budget, this year's budget, last year, was sort of a passion of mine to see it put in the budget. If you work in the corporate world, DE&I is, you know, has been around for at least a decade, but seriously, within the last, in my experience, seven to five years, has become a real push to understand how folks come in to, in my case, the office, in this case, the community, to town hall, and how they perceive what we are doing and how we put ourselves out there to be perceived, right? And there's a context, I think, to diversity, equity, and inclusion that, you know, we're trying to come in and change people.

We're not. We're trying to come in and understand people. I think one of the amazing parts about DE&I, and most of these presenters will tell you, is, you know, they're looking to come and get to know Swampscott, meet us where we are, and then help us in our DE&I journey.

They're not here to push us in any particular direction that we don't want to go in, and I think it's an exciting journey to go on, and one that's long overdue.

[Speaker 7] (44:58 - 45:03)
I just want to ask a real quick question. How many employees does the town have?

[Speaker 15] (45:04 - 45:05)
About 150.

[Speaker 7] (45:06 - 45:10)
The town has 150? Yep. And what about the schools?

[Speaker 15] (45:10 - 45:16)
The school department's well over that, but this does not provide, this does not cover the department.

[Speaker 7] (45:16 - 45:18)
I just want to know how many employees we have in the school.

[Speaker 15] (45:18 - 45:19)
It's over 400.

[Speaker 7] (45:19 - 45:20)
Over 400? Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (45:21 - 45:25)
Well, yeah, 400 bodies. 400 bodies.

[Speaker 8] (45:27 - 45:35)
Okay. And so this is just for the town, not anything to do with the schools? It's not.

[Speaker 15] (45:35 - 45:35)
Correct.

[Speaker 1] (45:35 - 45:46)
You know, I've talked to the superintendent a number of times about, you know, sharing some of these responsibilities. They've got a different type of population they serve.

[Speaker 4] (45:47 - 45:51)
And they've had a process going on in some respects in this area for a while.

[Speaker 1] (45:51 - 46:55)
Yep. And so have we. We've hired other consultants.

We've had, you know, a few conversations around DE&I. So, and we've shared a few of those conversations. It's just, you know, I think, you know, at this point, we're doing different things.

This is more community and town-centric, town municipal departments. At some point, I hope that we can move more towards sharing some of these responsibilities. We are hoping to fill a full-time position that really will help us bake this in.

We want a culture that really embraces inclusivity and diversity. And just like our environmental responsibilities, we need a climate and environmental position. We need a position that can really help us ensure that we don't have biases or, you know, barriers that would help ensure that Swanstead embraces inclusivity.

[Speaker 8] (46:56 - 47:32)
And so I just want to, just one question. Not to flip over the point about the schools, but given what's happened over the past week, I do think it's an important piece to explore down the road because we really are all one community. And I think it's important to remember that it's not two separate entities, right?

And what we're training our employees in dealing with on this side is something that has to, you know, somehow trickle over to the school side at some point. So I think that is an important conversation. It's considering the overlap and the number of employees they have that aren't technically town employees.

[Speaker 1] (47:33 - 47:59)
Danielle, I really, you know, hope that we can have a financial summit and really think about, you know, all the broader values that we have as a town and see where those lines of intersection are. Because, you know, we share a facilities director. We share payroll.

We share, you know, so many different functions.

[Speaker 8] (47:59 - 48:02)
Especially from a cost-saving perspective.

[Speaker 1] (48:03 - 48:17)
When you kind of look at it, there's a lot of redundant costs. And if we could actually better prioritize some of those dollars, what else could we help accomplish? So certainly, you know, a really important conversation.

[Speaker 4] (48:18 - 49:55)
I think in this context, it's probably just useful because people will probably come to the table and come to this conversation with very kind of potentially loaded ideas about what this conversation is. And fears and concerns about, I think Katie, you know, touched on this. Maybe to emphasize, like, I just kind of urge everyone to kind of, if you're hearing this, if you're concerned that this is going to be something that is going to, you know, force you to do something very problematic and very difficult for you, that may be true.

But I ask everyone to kind of take a breath and kind of really listen to what this really is about and what it's not. You know, it really is about kind of engaging people where we are. I would assume, you know, we'll hear from people.

You know, I think there are many people that, you know, feel like we have a lot of work to do to catch up and to move forward. And there are a lot of people that wish we were never talking about this. So just to kind of just acknowledge that there's a wide diversity of opinion on this, that some people may come with loaded terms and jargon and, you know, news feeds and everything about what this is.

And I just kind of encourage us to kind of, like, take a moment to really listen and engage with this, and hopefully that we'll be able to kind of find the right cadence in terms of moving forward.

[Speaker 3] (49:58 - 50:00)
That's what these folks are here to help us.

[Speaker 15] (50:03 - 50:27)
So if we want to go through, we'll just have each team present. We'll do it in alpha order based on the agenda. So we'll allow the HCH team members to, they are being unmuted right now and their mics are getting enabled.

So feel free, HCH team, when you are ready to begin your presentation.

[Speaker 27] (50:37 - 50:38)
Hi, everyone.

[Speaker 12] (50:38 - 51:19)
Sorry, it took me a second there to unmute. My name is HCH Enterprises. I will do a round robin and let our team introduce themselves quickly.

I am a senior project manager. I've worked on a number of similar projects as far as size and scope with different municipalities in the Northeast region, as well as on some housing and health care equity initiatives. So it's nice to see you all, and thank you for the opportunity to allow us to present here this evening.

I will turn it over to Dr. Barrows. Thank you, Nicole. Good evening, everyone.

Thank you for having us.

[Speaker 6] (51:21 - 52:07)
Dr. Marissa Barrows here. I am a homegrown practitioner, if you will, in this work, diversity, equity, inclusion, and I like to add justice to that acronym. Of course, we can't forget about accessibility and belonging, but justice is about the action piece.

I've had, like I said, professional experience in this work in higher education as well as municipal government. I've been an inaugural chief diversity officer a number of times in my career path, and I'm currently teaching in a graduate degree program at Tufts University for diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice leadership. Thanks.

Thanks again. I'll pass it to Chelsea.

[Speaker 12] (52:08 - 52:17)
Dr. Barrows, one moment. I'm sorry. I can't tell if the presentation is being shown.

I'm unable to share my screen. I don't know if we have the opportunity to do that.

[Speaker 5] (52:20 - 52:20)
Stand by.

[Speaker 12] (52:21 - 52:44)
Thank you. Nicole, I just promoted you. You should be able to share.

Perfect. Thank you so much. There we go.

Thank you. Chelsea, you want to go next? Sure.

Hello, everybody.

[Speaker 26] (52:44 - 52:49)
I'm Chelsea Lovett, the marketing communications coordinator for the D&I Inclusion Initiative for Swanscott.

[Speaker 3] (52:50 - 53:24)
I'm passionate about creating a more welcoming and inclusive community. In my role, I would be responsible for developing and implementing a variety of marketing communication tools to raise awareness about the D&I initiatives, including surveys and for data analysis. This also includes managing possibly social media content, creating marketing materials, and also supporting event planning if needed.

And I'm always looking for a way to connect with and engage the city and community members as well. And I'm looking forward to hearing your ideas. And thank you so much for this opportunity.

[Speaker 12] (53:26 - 53:27)
Thanks, Chelsea. Mia?

[Speaker 9] (53:29 - 53:48)
Good evening, everyone. My name is Mia Solis-Ramirez. I'm the project coordinator.

I've also worked with Nicole and Dr. Barrows on other D&I projects, the city of Malden, and Chelsea as well, and Maria. And I've also worked with Nicole on other health equity projects as well. And thank you for this opportunity.

[Speaker 21] (53:50 - 53:51)
Maria?

[Speaker 24] (53:53 - 54:58)
Hi, everyone, and thanks again for the opportunity. It's nice to see everybody here and even to see that you guys are starting to have that conversation on the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion that's really exciting. And I really appreciate the points made by some of the councilmen.

So I am the compliance manager for HCH. I will be doing all the compliance aspects of this initiative. And I really appreciate it.

I believe it was Doug who said that we have to be careful not to get too uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And part of doing that is understanding our limitations, understanding what we can do, and also what safeguards are out there so that we can all be in a safe space. And that's part of what I'll be doing as a compliance manager.

Again, Maria Bonaparte, and thank you for having us.

[Speaker 14] (54:59 - 54:59)
Thanks, Maria.

[Speaker 12] (55:00 - 55:20)
And Mr. Henry Hobbs is our founder and president. He was hoping to attend this evening, but he had another commitment. He sends his best.

And hopefully you'll get to meet him sometime in the near future. These are some of the recent projects that we have been working on as it pertains to DEI and J.

[Speaker 15] (55:21 - 55:21)
Nicole.

[Speaker 12] (55:22 - 55:22)
Yes.

[Speaker 15] (55:22 - 55:25)
We don't see your screen being shared.

[Speaker 12] (55:25 - 55:56)
Oh, you don't. Let's try this again. Thank you for interrupting me.

Are you able to see it now? Yep. Yes, we can.

[Speaker 5] (55:57 - 55:57)
Okay.

[Speaker 12] (55:57 - 58:06)
Perfect. Sorry about that. Slide show.

Here we go. Apologies. There's our team.

Okay. Here's some of the recent projects that we have been engaged with. We've been working with the cities of Salem, Massachusetts, Westwood.

We are currently working with the city of Baltimore, Massachusetts, Philadelphia. Also completed a housing and health equity project with Rhode Island housing. We have multiple projects going with the Rhode Island Department of Health, the Office of Health and Human Services.

And we're also working on a health equity project for Northeast Connecticut Community College Office of Rural Health. And this is how we would sit. We sit with the key stakeholders.

We would host a kickoff meeting. And we would develop some of what we call SMART goals. So those are specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, time-based.

We really want this to be an inclusive, collaborative environment. We want to hear from all of the key stakeholders, starting with town administration, town council members, as well as community members. We'll develop and prioritize clear objectives, key milestones, and success measures.

Here's the scope of the project, which has already, I know you've all seen this, as well as the other participating agencies on the phone this evening. But we would, during that kickoff meeting, we would discuss the scope of the project and really to understand and engage and understand what it is that you are all trying to develop. As Katie said before, we're working with you.

It's not a top-down approach. Dr. Barrows, you could probably speak better to this than I can, if you want to chime in. Is Dr. Barrows there?

[Speaker 24] (58:08 - 58:09)
You're on mute, Dr. Barrows.

[Speaker 6] (58:11 - 59:35)
I am here. I was talking to myself. Yes, absolutely.

Just wanted to add that we are starting in an inaugural position here. We're well-positioned here in Swanscot that this is a proactive approach and not motivated by some type of incident, crisis, or what have you. I resonate with the comments that were made about people being in different places and having different sentiments of even engaging in this work.

We will certainly be looking at this scope. I will say this scope is very much longitudinal. There are certain things that we'll be looking at, not only how can the resources come to Swanscot, but how can we leverage the expertise and resources already existing within the municipality to be able to create some sustainability for these projects as they're being developed.

There's even new research coming out of the graduate program I teach that can support a number of these projects, especially the course development. I think we can unpack that and see what we're really looking for when we talk about course development. Do you want to bring me to the next slide?

[Speaker 12] (59:35 - 59:36)
Thanks, Dr. Barrows.

[Speaker 6] (59:36 - 1:04:39)
Yes. The first thing is this diagnostic approach, for sure. I didn't mention in my introduction, but my research and my doctoral research was also focused on the lived experiences of chief diversity officers of predominantly white institutions in the northeast region of the country.

Of course, there are already some general strategies that I have in mind and can bring forth. It's really important that we're data-informed in this process so we can really tailor and personalize to the needs and what diversity means specifically to Swanscot. We're always going to be wanting to do some type of assessment and evaluation.

We're going to want to do some benchmarking as well so that we're not just checking the box as we go along. We're really creating sustainable feedback loops for the community. One particular tool that we'll definitely tap into is the racial equity tool, which allows us to tap into not only the knowledge and expertise around this think tank, but also communicating and connecting with the individuals who are most burdened and vulnerable in relation to whatever it is we're trying to understand and develop.

That'll be part of that diagnostic phase that will be in all forms, qualitative and quantitative or mixed. We may certainly want to have some focus groups or one-on-one interviews as well as online surveys. We are definitely going to be moving in a shared leadership or co-collaborative manner.

We'll be doing check-ins often so that we're making decisions together We will, of course, be thinking in a strategic long-term plan, but we're also able to adjust to deal with bottlenecks or tensions or challenges as they arise, things that we didn't anticipate. We will be looking to be as inclusive as possible when it comes to interpretations or translations or linguistical supports that's needed across the town. If we go to the next slide, because I know we don't have a whole lot of time here with y'all.

I wanted to share the framework that we use in doing this work, approaching this work, and even sharing, embarking upon the leaders in Swampscott to be able to continue doing this work. SQ is speaking to this underlying belief that we believe in this framework that all individuals and organizations are capable of change. We know some may not always be willing, but the capacity and the capability is there, and the belief you must have.

There are three levels of this work to consider, or entry points even. It's the self, so there's self-development, self-awareness, the spheres of influence. It's not just the influence you have on others, especially as municipal leaders, but the spheres of influence that you can tap into to fill gaps of knowledge, to serve as a resource as we're making decisions.

Then it's the systems. How do we operationalize? How do we get folks to move from conceptual learning to actual application and operationalizing the practices we share?

How can we influence changes that are system-wide that can advance equitable pursuits as well? You'll definitely hear more about this, but that's just a quick note to the framework that guides our work. Then we can go through this timeline.

In reviewing the timeline for this presentation, I will say we may even considering the scope of work and the depth of long-term goals that SWAMSTAR has. It may even be more like 12 to 18 months, just because I'll be honest, in other projects that we've been going through and experiencing with, there are things that will present itself over time, especially as we build relationship, rapport, and trust within the municipality and the community. Note that there's some flexibility that we'll ask for folks that will participate.

We may need to say, maybe in the back end, for example, we want to do some assessment just to close things out and to be certain that our recommendations are able to be very personalized and unique to the matters related or important to SWAMSTAR. Nicole, did you want to go over quickly?

[Speaker 12] (1:04:39 - 1:05:40)
Yeah, we don't have to go through all of it, but this is just the breakdown, the initial assessment. We would aim to be complete within the first one to three months. That's really just diving into the current landscape, working on that project timeline, what are the goals, things like that, focus group facilitation.

Then we would consult on the course of action and deliver an initial assessment report in the next four to six months, implementation, six to nine, six to 12 months. Yeah, 12 to 16 months is what we had targeted for this particular project. A lot of stuff will arise organically, so we may have to pivot.

This is not all set in stone. This is a fluid process that we would take into consideration as we approach this project.

[Speaker 6] (1:05:42 - 1:07:04)
There's activities that would be able to happen simultaneously as we're working on the more long-term pieces. We know that learning and development, developing folks at that self-level is very critical. Thinking about how to dive into that more immediately, but then thinking about an educational repository, what might that look like so that folks have a resource that they can easily access and conveniently get to while they're in the workplace.

This is something that can be actually developed to even be accessible in some form or fashion to the general public. When you're thinking about community building and integration or development, cultural integration in that sense, there's so much information out there and trying to make it more convenient for folks to dive into and normalize that practice of self-development and centering DEI as that missing link in our education as leaders and really equipping, especially your staff, your municipal leaders, with that ability to activate an equity and inclusion lens in how they show up in their workplace.

We hope, of course, it is translated into their day-to-day lives as well.

[Speaker 12] (1:07:07 - 1:07:09)
Thank you, Dr. Barrows.

[Speaker 6] (1:07:09 - 1:07:15)
Yes, we hope your questions can help us unpack more of what we're able to provide you all.

[Speaker 12] (1:07:17 - 1:07:19)
It's a lot to present in 10 minutes.

[Speaker 6] (1:07:20 - 1:07:20)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:24 - 1:07:35)
Does anyone have any questions? I've already asked these lovely ladies who presented my questions because I was part of the process originally. I have two questions.

[Speaker 7] (1:07:36 - 1:07:52)
On your proposal, maybe you can help me with this. On the proposal, is it 12 or 16 months? How is the quote in there for the service factored into 12 or 16 months?

[Speaker 3] (1:07:53 - 1:07:54)
You mean the cost?

[Speaker 7] (1:07:54 - 1:07:55)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:55 - 1:07:59)
The cost is based on the entirety of the proposal, correct? That is correct.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:04 - 1:08:10)
Your cost is based on 12 or maybe 16 months? How does that work?

[Speaker 12] (1:08:12 - 1:08:45)
When the contract is finalized, we can determine whether it will be 12 to 18 months. It's not going to go above and beyond what the budget is. Regardless of the amount of time that it takes, it would not go above the budget.

Does that make sense? It might just take longer than anticipated. That's kind of my job as the project manager to ensure that the deliverables are on time and on budget and that nothing goes over.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:46 - 1:08:55)
This is a not to exceed proposal. We've got your number and we've got all of the wonderful things that you've outlined for that number.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:55 - 1:09:07)
My next question is, in the state of Massachusetts or even Massachusetts and Rhode Island, what communities do you think do a great job with DE&I?

[Speaker 12] (1:09:10 - 1:09:14)
Dr. Barrows, do you want to answer that?

[Speaker 6] (1:09:15 - 1:12:31)
Not to put you on the spot. I know it's an interesting question because it's an opinionated question. There's not real data going in to really assess and see what the impact is.

As we are going through different projects and assessing our own work and impact, we can make some inferences later in the future. Right now, it would be a very opinionated expression. I would say there are definitely some towns and cities who are doing a great job.

The city of Lynn, the city of Malden, we've been working with. I say the city of Lynn because of my own work experience in hearing and knowing what's going on there and who's in leadership there. The city of Malden has been doing a great job for years.

They are re-centering and focusing and restructuring. While they are starting over again, they have stakes already in the ground there that are going to be promising to their future with more strategic structure moving forward. I'm going to stay there because I don't have enough intel to make a judgment.

I think a lot of people are doing the best that they can and are really at the starting point. When I got into municipal government in 2022, is when a lot of these positions started coming into play following the pandemic, the racial pandemic, the COVID pandemic and all of that. In addition to a lot of positions coming forward, a lot of people have left their posts as well because there hasn't been a concerted .

It just hasn't been a great job at making sure the right resources, the proper structure, even the know-how for other colleagues to understand what the role is and how to leverage that person's position and contribution. There's been a lot that folks have been experiencing. I think it was Katie who mentioned how this work has been a part of corporate America for years.

It originally started in corporate and in the business field probably over 20 years ago. In the last decade or so, it's been really strong in higher education. We have babies in this game for doing this work in the municipalities.

Our best bet right now as we are building the plane as we fly is taking what's true and tried in these other fields and translating it into the municipal government in our way of doing work in this particular industry and then figuring out how do we personalize it, how do we make it specific to what we need. That's where our expertise will certainly come in.

[Speaker 8] (1:12:32 - 1:13:54)
Thank you. I have a couple of questions. Thank you for your presentation.

I had a chance to read through. It was very comprehensive. Thank you for that.

One of my questions is surrounding. I understand your experience with bigger cities, Philadelphia, Malden, Salem. How would you alter your approach when you're dealing with a community of 15,000 people where it's a very small town with maybe not as much diversity as some of the bigger cities you mentioned.

Would that alter your approach? What type of, I guess, my biggest piece, I see that you have understanding Swampscott culture. How would you really dig down and figure out what such a small town, what type of approach would you take in understanding what a small town like this is culturally and how would you approach that?

Do you have experience with towns of our size as opposed to the bigger cities and the bigger approach? We're a smaller population. Do you have experience with that?

If so, how would you alter how you would basically get to know our culture?

[Speaker 6] (1:13:55 - 1:18:08)
Yeah, definitely. Right now we're working with the town of Westwood. The town of Westwood is probably a little more similar to what we'll find in Swampscott.

With the town of Westwood, we've just started with some trainings. It's going to take y'all letting us in, really getting in and getting to know people. This work is very much embedded in relationship building and understanding the interest for everyone.

We're talking about inclusion. We're not just looking for what the majority wants. We're going to try to figure out what are the needs for everyone and how we're going to operationalize it to meet the needs.

We have to start really thinking about DEI and what it means and how it's defined to Swampscott and not to the national conversation around DEI. We're going to have to start moving. The number one thing that always has to be in place is learning and development.

Even us as facilitators and experts in this area, we continue to do our development work every single day. The beauty of us having a team the way we do is that we're able to fill each other's gaps of knowledge as we're strategizing and thinking through projects. What and how we do our work is what we want to pass on to y'all, who are the leaders there, so that you can be able to develop your own skill sets and carry this out.

It becomes a train-the-trainer model. Definitely, it's going to be a lot of conversations. It's going to be one-on-one.

If it needs to be some of them in person because of the dynamics. We need honesty and frankness from the team who's going to be working with us to really prepare us to know what's going to be the best strategy. It's definitely going to be a lot of assessment, a lot of talking.

That's why I think maybe in my brain I was thinking it might be a little longer. We like to have that flexibility because at any time you're doing this type of work, you have the ideal approach. The reality will settle in as we dive into it.

We're very data-informed. We'll be trying to move a couple of parts at the same time. While we are thinking about the learning and development piece, we're also going to be doing the consulting and the coaching and thinking about what is your structure.

A lot of times we just want to insert the DEI officer or a commission or a task force. They can do the work. Instead, let's really understand when we have the definitions of what is DEI, what are the needs, where are our gaps, where are limitations, what are our threats.

When we can understand that analysis, then we can determine what that approach is going to be, how it might look different than something we did with Westwood. It's hard to say I'm going to change my approach because my approach is very similar anywhere I go. I really want to minimize the threat and the fear that comes around doing this work and that it's like we did something wrong.

The consultants are here to police us. We're here to help people develop professionally. What we're bringing forth is that missing link that none of us had in our educational development or even professional development.

We're here to strengthen people and come from an asset versus a deficit approach when it comes to training. We use a lot of restorative justice methodologies in holding our trainings and really minimize that fear and create a brave space. Maria talked about the safety and that's for the legalities.

When it comes to development, we really lean into that discomfort and create a brave space so we can be accountable to each other behind closed doors. We might make a mistake or say something or have an awakening that maybe others have already had, but it's going to better equip us when we go out into the public and are serving people or at our desk and having to make a decision that's going to impact our residents.

[Speaker 8] (1:18:09 - 1:19:10)
Thank you for that. That's a wonderful answer and I just really wanted to highlight how important it is to really understand the community, the size of the community and really get to know us as a town to better assist you to lead us forward. That small town approach is different than corporate America where we're all familiar with DEI as a well-known entity.

Even municipalities are kind of lagging in being up to speed. Regardless of what you feel as an individual, this is the world we live in and DEI is very much a big part of that. For us to ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist is really doing a disservice on our part to our people, our employees, our residents and whatnot.

It's an important initiative for sure, but I just wanted to make sure that we focus on the small town of Swampscott and 15,000 people as opposed to a big corporation because it's like apples and oranges. It's totally different. Thank you for your answer.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:11 - 1:19:19)
Absolutely. Thank you for the question. I thought you had two questions.

[Speaker 8] (1:19:20 - 1:19:30)
Oh, that was it. I kind of combined them into one. I was thinking more of the culture and then how you alter your approach if it's a smaller town as opposed to a big city.

You covered it. Thank you.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:30 - 1:19:43)
I would add that we look at the definition of diversity in its broad scope while centering intersectionality in those areas. I think that's one of the most important approaches.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:45 - 1:20:15)
So I'm conscious of the time. So I'll try to be really precise with my question. Can you give one specific example of how you will work with our union colleagues?

And, you know, maybe one specific example of how that process has worked. And is that any different than any other group of people or not?

[Speaker 6] (1:20:18 - 1:22:37)
Yes. I'm so happy you're willing to give it like give us the union to work with. Honestly, it's been an area, especially in municipal government, that's sort of been separated from from the other.

So even hearing and how y'all you all in the city and the school districts sort of share a lot of funding and things of that sort. It's interesting. It's a different sort of dynamic.

So I don't have past experiences directly, but I've had interest in the union piece. I think it will naturally be different because you're going to be working within particular laws and policies that are in place that a lot of that conversation is going to be probably digging into some of those policies and practices and thinking about equity and access or inclusion in those in those components. But the approach very much is is the same because it's not just the policies and the practices, but the ideologies and the people behind those policies and practices that we want to really understand and sort of get a lay of the land and understanding what the challenges might be.

Where can we make progress immediately? Where do we need to do a little bit more understanding, learning and research before we can even get to the strategizing and addressing? So.

So in that regard, I would go back to the mechanics of the technical approaches in doing this work. This is a growing and developing discipline. So.

I have to just be frank and saying that sometimes we are flying the plane, building the plane as we're flying it. So. I trust in some of those.

Resources when it or strategies when it comes to uncharted territories. But I think the union component is extremely important. And we think about recruitment, retention, potential for promotions, even how we address violations of employee standards.

All of that really had in the union to be involved. It's going to be a plus for the longevity of the decisions the town makes.

[Speaker 4] (1:22:39 - 1:22:47)
I didn't know. I didn't know if Maria was looking like she wanted to comment on this too. I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but.

Yeah, Maria.

[Speaker 15] (1:22:48 - 1:23:10)
Doug, if I. If I. Hold on one second.

I just want to remind the presenters that we do have a limited time so please be sure to provide your responses and concise because we will need to move on. And we'll we want to make sure, too, that we give equal time to the other teams as well. So we might have to modify the schedule.

OK. Absolutely.

[Speaker 24] (1:23:12 - 1:23:57)
Sure. Thank you. And no, I couldn't agree more with what Dr. Barrett's just said. I think that here when we're working with unions, we really have to emphasize contract familiarity, contract interpretation, understanding. But we cannot do that in isolation from interpersonal relationships. No matter how well we understand the laws and the regulations and we can interpret and make arguments, we have to have good working relationships and good communication.

So as Dr. Barrett says, it's a working combination, understanding contracts and building those relationships with union members.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:05 - 1:24:05)
Thanks.

[Speaker 3] (1:24:06 - 1:24:10)
Thank you very much for your presentation and for speaking to us tonight.

[Speaker 24] (1:24:11 - 1:24:12)
Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:16 - 1:24:16)
Diane.

[Speaker 27] (1:24:46 - 1:24:47)
Who's up next.

[Speaker 3] (1:24:48 - 1:24:49)
The ready set.

[Speaker 5] (1:24:49 - 1:24:58)
The ready set. Can you also make them presenters as well. Thanks.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:07 - 1:25:09)
Hey, folks. Hello. Hi there.

[Speaker 2] (1:25:09 - 1:25:18)
Good evening. Hi there. I'm just waiting for my colleague, Viveka, to be put on video as well.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:22 - 1:25:25)
Scroll down, Diane. I saw her. OK.

and the others, and I, oh.

[Speaker 5] (1:25:27 - 1:25:29)
Oh, she looks like she accepted.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:29 - 1:25:31)
Oh, there she is. Oh, okay, there we go.

[Speaker 14] (1:25:38 - 1:25:41)
There we go. Hi, folks.

[Speaker 27] (1:25:43 - 1:25:43)
Hello.

[Speaker 14] (1:25:43 - 1:25:45)
Hi there, welcome. Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (1:25:46 - 1:26:53)
Great, so we'll start with a couple of introductions. So I will start with myself. My name is Meghna Bajmudar.

I use she, her pronouns, and I'm the head of executive and leadership engagement here at Ready, Set. Though I am based in the San Francisco Bay Area in Berkeley, I was born in India, but raised in Boston. I grew up in Alston, Brighton.

I went to Boston Latin School. I went to Harvard, you know, just I'm in Boston right now for my 25th year college reunion. So super excited that we could have this conversation.

For a long time, I've been a consultant with a focus on working with firsts and onlys. So the first from their family or community or only one like themselves in the room, connecting individual action and systemic change. And so former strategy consultant and marketing comms leader.

And currently I lead our projects with the Marin County Office of Equity, the city of Salem, the city of Lynn, and a few other nonprofit organizations that we work with.

[Speaker 14] (1:26:56 - 1:27:56)
All right, hi, folks. My name is Viveka Kaimali, she, her pronouns. I am a senior consultant and facilitator on the Ready, Set team.

I'm East Coast based. I grew up in upstate New York and my expertise in the space kind of bridges our organizational assessments, data science side of things, DEI strategy, change management, and also our trainings and our workshops. I develop a lot of our content and a lot of my partnerships with clients is building out training and development plans and facilitating them.

And my particular expertise area in this space is LGBTQA education, fluency, and language. I also have been doing a lot of work with municipal municipalities recently. My background is primarily in the talent engagement HR space on the corporate side and also government operations separately, but I am co-leading city of Salem with Magna and also have just kicked off a project with Westchester County to do a pretty similar work to the work you all are looking for.

Thank you all for hosting us.

[Speaker 2] (1:27:57 - 1:44:00)
And a couple of other team members that you might see if we collaborate, but who weren't able to be with us tonight, Jen Bustamante, who is one of our leaders in people science. And so with the data analysis and also Zoe King, who's a wonderful consultant and facilitator as well. So just a little background on ReadySet.

Our mission is to change the way the world works. We're an end-to-end diversity, equity, and inclusion consulting agency. So we do everything from assessments and strategy analytics to leadership training and coaching, workshop design and facilitation.

And we have a scalable e-learning platform called New Day. In terms of our experience with government and community, it goes through different types of entities. So there are the municipalities and like the questions before around of different sizes, and that makes a difference.

Nonprofit organizations, advocacy and trade organizations, as well as hospital research and academic institutions. So what makes us different? You know, there are so many phenomenal organizations out there doing this work.

And, you know, I really love that we are tailored and yet comprehensive. We target our initiatives to the needs of our client. And then what I say is we meet them where they are, but we don't leave them where we found them.

And so really thinking about what is the bigger context in which you're working? I think, you know, for example, with, you know, the city of Salem, there is a conversation around, you know, there's just so much more immigration and yet our area median income is very different from Boston, where a lot of regulations around this is made. And so we take that into our thinking as we think about what is the way to move forward?

What are the action steps that can actually start making a difference? We're intersectional and holistic, and that means we're really focused on the people. So, you know, we all have so many different elements of our identity.

And so, you know, someone can identify with a certain race or ethnicity, but then are they a parent or caretaker in other ways? There's so much going on in each person's reality. So taking that human-centered approach allows us to amplify the voices that tend not to be in the conversation.

We are data-driven, and so we focus on collecting both quantitative and qualitative data and kind of connecting that with contextual understanding and then being regionally and culturally specific. I think, you know, as you talk about, you know, what are the kind of municipalities that are doing interesting things? I think, you know, there's a really fascinating case study with your town specifically in terms of leaving the civil service framework and kind of your early experience there.

So, you know, there are exciting conversations to go into about what makes DEI particularly challenging in Swampscot versus Lynn and Salem because the communities are different and kind of, but how can this be designed for the long-term? And just a shout out to the rest of our team, you'll see you might interact with different members of our team in the future. So in terms of partnering with the town of Swampscot, you know, what we really heard is that there is a lot of concern about addressing critical shortcomings in order to better engage and include town residents and their perspectives.

So creating a much more open, transparent channel of communication, it's been wonderful to see how community members talk in these types of meetings. But, you know, there have been recent conversations that really bring this conversation to an uncomfortable place. So what's the way to start to find patterns and frameworks to move forward?

And, you know, wanting to conduct an organizational assessment providing specialized facilitation, creating an employee training plan and strategic and implementation plan that will move the town towards being an inclusive and equitable at every level. So our approach would conduct that context assessment. We have kind of a unique way to get to know a community and then turn that into a strategic plan and roadmap that is very straightforward to implement and then developing a tailored approach and guidance to embed an inclusion-driven perspective long-term.

I know in your RFP, you did talk about a DEI leader and potentially team. And I think, you know, based on the readiness of the town, that may or may not be the right next step. You know, because we have seen, we have had clients who are the first DEI leader and then they're not resourced appropriately or other people don't know how to work with them.

Where we have other folks who are the first DEI leader and they hit the ground running. And so as we delve into our assessment of your organization, but also kind of the community zeitgeist how are people feeling? What are they struggling with?

What do they feel that they can or can't get across in terms of the town hall? You know, it may be more of a communications and community engagement liaison. We don't know, but we would kind of be asking questions from a place of how can this person be successful for the long-term?

And so in terms of how we get there, there's the phase one, which would approximately be about six months. This is that document and policy review doing the data surveys in terms of the workforce equity and an employee DEI survey doing the employee focus groups and interviews. And then, you know, the way we like to engage with a community is to focus on being there in person and doing a community jam.

And so it is like kind of, if you ever did hackathons, it's kind of, and Viveka recently led one. And so she can talk more about that if you're curious of just bringing folks in and having an organic conversation of what's working and what's not, what are the gaps to be filled? What are the ways to move forward?

And I think, you know, it can be used as a way to not just get information, but build that community at the same time, come to some level of understanding together and kind of a way to survey communities so that people who may not have access to the internet or access to the phone could be part of a conversation, could have their feedback represented. So there might be a couple of different ways we think about going about surveying the community. And then in phase two, kind of working with potentially this group or kind of others who identify as the core client team on, you know, like, so how do we put this into action?

Who are the owners? So very recently, you know, in terms of our work, doing an equity audit for the city of Salem, there is a conversation of boards and commissions and how do we diversify participation there? And one of the key things in the beginning is actually which are decision-making and which are advisory?

Let's kind of figure that out. And so like, so people are like, oh, that's actually a first step we can take. And we know how to do that.

And that kind of transparency of information starts to be able to be communicated into the community. So we would put together a strategic plan and roadmap and kind of support you with some ways of getting into implementation very quickly. And then clarity on the ownership and timetable for how this work moves forward.

This could be that potential DEI team. It could be something else that comes up from the conversations in phases one and prior to that in phase two. And then in phase three, we could be headed towards a training plan for the city or leaders.

Or there could be something that's much more focused on senior official group learning and ability. There might be some really focused coaching that goes in here. But this is part of that kind of tailored and comprehensive approach of we wanna listen first, make sure that it's really gonna get you where you wanna go in terms of the confidence.

And so that's why you start to see things in italics as we get further and further out. In terms of project management practices, this is kind of the backbone of how do we get complicated projects like this to successful end points. And so there is that weekly or bi-weekly check-in in terms of we're always watching schedule and budget.

We do not like your side to have surprises. And so we really look for open communication and support on macro and micro level administration of the engagement. In engagements like this, there are kind of common potential challenges we tend to see.

The continued politicization about the DEI conversation during an election year might kind of, I know Massachusetts is a blue state, but there are folks likely who have lived in Swampscott for generations. And there are probably folks who are new to Swampscott. And they might not all have the same perspective.

There might be some tensions. There might be some real kind of like what is actually going on. And so in this moment of anti-wokeness rhetoric, how do we have the really human conversation?

And that's what we will continue to hew to of this is about this community being inclusive, about it being a great place for people to live, work, have families, or kind of just have a great life. Oftentimes with DEI work, people have expectations for immediate change and may not realize that it might take a little bit for it to start feeling different. And so what are the communication practices that will let people know that work is being done, even though they may not see something different right off the bat.

And then in terms of engaging the community and the assessment, people have limited time. They work, they have children, they commute. They may not have a lot of flexibility of scheduling.

So really kind of working with what are ways we can get kind of maximal participation. We've come up with some interesting ways of using Facebook and other social media channels to make sure people show up to the community jams. There's lack of regular access to technology, potential language barriers, and citizenship status that may play into it.

And so we, again, I just want to reiterate, we take that human-centered, collaborative, and impact-oriented approach. And a couple of items I just wanted to share just for you specifically, is DEI engagement is challenging for all community leaders that we've worked with. And it's because standards for everyone's behavior have changed, but leaders especially, and no one sends you a memo on kind of what has changed.

There have been a set of behaviors that have got you to where you are, to serving on the town council. And these instincts have served you very well. But this can often make people reluctant to change.

And this is especially true within kind of your town administration. People may be used to doing things a certain way, and it's just like, well, why would we change now? And so being really open about that conversation.

Leaders often feel like they have to have the right answer, and saying the wrong thing is really dangerous in this moment. And leaders don't get the benefit of the doubt. You will always be questioned way more.

And so it's safer to flee. It often feels safer to do nothing, but no action is an action in itself. And so we really want to equip people with kind of like, what are the right questions I can be asking myself?

So I can stay in this conversation of, why do I care about equity and inclusion? Is it just a nice to have, or is there something at stake for me? And so really getting leaders to touch that, and kind of really understand what is my role in creating the current dynamic.

And then moving into what is the problem, what is the actual problem to be solved? And what opportunity do we have to work differently? What are the actions I wanna take individually?

What are we gonna do as a group? There's a way to shift attention from intent to impact. And so these are the kinds of conversations we may be getting into as we do this work.

Just quickly wanted to share a couple of case studies in terms of a city government office that wanted to progress its culture efforts and a tailored training plan. And so we were able to engage 95% of the organization, engage the community stakeholders, and developed a phased and focused training plan that led to great results in that organization. Did something similar with a major league sports team in terms of organizational assessment and strategic planning, and also placing their first chief diversity officer.

And so we have some kind of representative elements of what a strategic roadmap might look like, what a more public-facing report might look like. Certain frameworks that we think about in how do you build a more inclusive environment and kind of what does the DEI journey look like to move from inactive to reactive to a proactive stance. And so with that, that's kind of the material we had, very open to questions.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:03 - 1:44:30)
I'm happy to jump in first. Vivica and Medna, thank you for your presentation. Just curious as to what in your opinion determines success with engagement of the community.

Right now Swampskate's a town of 15,000, so how many of the community members need to be engaged to really, with our community stakeholders, to ensure that the community is heard? So interested to hear your thoughts.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:32 - 1:44:37)
Yeah, I have some thoughts, but I don't know, Vivica, if something's coming up for you.

[Speaker 14] (1:44:38 - 1:45:44)
Yeah, I can kick us off here. So what we've done previously with folks is prioritize making sure we're actually targeting and getting the perspective of different communities within the broader community. And so rather than it being kind of a percentage of participation, which can be really difficult when we're talking about voluntary participation in a survey or in focus groups, it's actually about targeting community leaders who are tapped into different parts of the community and making sure we're actually accessing the folks who are not normally heard.

So recently with the city of Salem, we ran a community assessment, and the priority for us was making sure that the folks that are not normally heard or represented in town hall context, boards and commissions, and various other public forums were the folks we were actually prioritizing for. And so community leaders was really the key for that. Folks that are already plugged in, that are very active in the community, that know where those conversations are happening and who to tap into.

That is some of how we are measuring success or how we might actually initiate the process of outreach.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:45 - 1:46:54)
Yeah, yeah. And I just wanna double down on the like, you know, it was really interesting. Someone in that conversation, it's like there's a difference between grassroots organizing and grass tops organizing.

And so it's kind of like, you know, what is kind of the fastest way to get as much information as possible in as broad a way as possible? And this is where that community leader engagement really comes in because people go to them with the stories. And, you know, certain folks, like for example, people may be saying, we need more and better affordable housing.

And it's kind of like, well, our planning department has to go through this, this, and this step. And we actually have a strategy, but it's a five-year plan. And so what's the way to reconcile that micro and macro?

And usually in conversations with community leaders, we're able to kind of tap into that and also get into some, I think, generative solutioning of kind of like, is there kind of a different way that there needs to be communications or how does feedback go back and forth?

[Speaker 5] (1:46:57 - 1:46:57)
Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (1:46:59 - 1:47:13)
So I'm gonna ask the same question that I asked the people before. Can you point out any other communities in Massachusetts that do a good job with D, E, and I?

[Speaker 2] (1:47:15 - 1:49:18)
Mary Ellen, I think it's, D, E, and I is decades, if not centuries, in the making as an issue and kind of a blind spot for most communities here in Massachusetts. So growing up in the battled 80s and 90s in Boston, I kind of was on the wrong side as an immigrant. And so kind of carry that of like, there's actually a big deficit to get into doing it well.

So are there communities that are really taking an intentional approach to harm and harm reduction and mitigation? Absolutely. I think, as mentioned before, City of Salem is kind of doing something.

City of Lynn is doing something, but they're being forced because of their immigrant populations. I think City of Revere is also doing some interesting things. So in that way, the North Shore is good company, but there's a lot of, I think, inertia to change here.

So it's hard to kind of put forward who's doing something holistically well. I think what you're trying to do in some of the ways you're having this conversation in terms of what I've been able to pick up from news coverage, it's interesting. You are going against the grain.

I think your experience with leaving the civil service framework is really powerful. And you're able to do things at your size that other locales may not be able to do. So I think we've had experience.

There's something in terms of like when we think about the other folks we've worked with, say, in Northern California or other parts of the Eastern Seaboard, I think everyone's grappling with a different issue.

[Speaker 7] (1:49:20 - 1:49:29)
Thank you. Just one more question. Now, will anybody be here in town working with us or is this all over remotely?

[Speaker 2] (1:49:31 - 1:50:24)
So a fair amount will be done remotely. There will be specific time periods when we are there with you kind of walking the streets. And so that's how we get to know the culture is we will go eat at Dockside.

We will go get our mails done. We will kind of walk about and kind of just chat with people in coffee shops and that sort of thing. But we've found that there's a balance of like how do we kind of be there and be focused and thoughtful and then kind of move things?

Just because schedules can shift so much, everyone's doing so much. So we have thought about what is the kind of balance of in-person kind of work and then kind of what can be done remotely.

[Speaker 14] (1:50:25 - 1:50:50)
Thank you. I'll chime in there. Some of the things that we can sit in on remotely that will still allow us to have full exposure, we might sit in on boards and commissions meetings.

We might sit in on things that are already hybrid or have a virtual aspect that is still a forum where the community is engaging. But in the focus time that we are on site, we will try to do the things that we would not otherwise understand. So we'll really prioritize those things while we're over there.

[Speaker 7] (1:50:52 - 1:50:54)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:00 - 1:51:23)
So I'll ask my same question. Sounds like you've been listening in all night since you had the dockside reference. So union engagement.

Can you talk about past experience there and particularities or not in terms of engaging folks that are in unions in this conversation?

[Speaker 2] (1:51:25 - 1:53:00)
Yeah, I mean, I think there are a couple of things. So we have had union engagement in different, like certain nonprofits and other municipalities. So we would review like collective bargaining agreements and that sort of thing.

But I think in terms of getting focus group understanding and that sort of thing, we wanna make sure that people feel compensated for their time. It's not extra, that sort of thing. We wanna make sure it's structurally correct in terms of any union rules.

And it's like there's a difference I've come to see between organizations that have had longstanding unions versus recently unionized. Because the recently unionized, it's kind of like a solve for a process issue that had been going on and that could have been handled a different way. There's also kind of like how, what is the relationship with the leadership like, like management like between the union?

Is it kind of a open and friendly relationship or is it adversarial? So those are things that go into it. But we think about like, what is the unique perspective?

What are the challenges and roadblocks that can make them feel not included? And kind of what is the impact of that in terms of making it feel like an inclusive town?

[Speaker 4] (1:53:07 - 1:53:35)
Didn't get a chance to ask this before. I'm not sure if anyone really talked about religious diversity. And how do you see that?

Maybe not so much necessarily like directly with town staff, I'm not sure how you really broached that, but kind of the broader community. We've certainly had some challenges here in terms of anti-Semitism, and how does that flow into your process?

[Speaker 2] (1:53:39 - 1:53:41)
I think I do want to start us off or?

[Speaker 14] (1:53:42 - 1:54:26)
Yeah, I can start us off. That would be pretty central to the conversation. So that's actually something that we've encountered with many of our previous municipality work and community engagement work, because it's so often does come up as a priority for folks and potentially a culture gap or miscommunication in how folks feel prioritized by the city government.

And so in the community jam, in a survey we put out, that would probably be a question that we ask around, are folks experiencing belonging? What might be getting in the way? Do you trust the government?

What do you not trust? What might impact that? Usually religion does come up and is actually quite central to the conversation.

So it's great that you're naming it and you're noticing it already come up as something that would potentially be a priority here.

[Speaker 2] (1:54:27 - 1:55:49)
Yeah, and this is also where we would kind of look at the religious community leaders to be in the conversation with us, because they are able to name certain things. And so wanting to make sure their perspectives are part of the conversation. And look, it is a really tense time right now.

And just walking around here in Brookline where my parents live, I'm like, wow, these placards are placarding. And I think it goes back to, this is why it's beyond DEI. It's like, what is this community?

What is Swampscott? It is changing. All of the Boston Metro area is changing to be way more diverse.

And how do we live together? Kind of in that plurality. So there's so many layers to it.

And yeah, we would wanna make sure we're integrating the perspectives of those kind of most impacted. And that's the lens we take. Like, what is the impact?

Who is most negatively impact? Who are we putting the burden of change on?

[Speaker 14] (1:55:50 - 1:56:23)
And I'll actually add to that and say, this would be a great example of something that we would do while on site. So what we did previously with Salem was actually go to a community mass and have the religious leader there introduce us as somebody that folks could come and talk to and kind of afford us the trust as a partner. And then afterwards, at the lunch that we attended, we were able to talk to folks who went to the mass.

And so actually going to some of these community spaces is a great way to do that. And some of that trust building as well that we've seen work really well in the past.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:23 - 1:56:24)
Thank you.

[Speaker 8] (1:56:26 - 1:56:58)
So I know we don't have very much time, but I did have a couple of questions. Mainly, I just wanna focus on the fact that we are a small town of 15,000 people. So the approach that you might take with a municipality of our size would probably be different, or maybe it isn't.

And I'd like to actually know if your approach would be altered at all, as opposed to dealing with like the city of Salem or the city of Lynn, even bigger cities on the West Coast and the Bay Area. We're a very small town. How would you, if at all, change your approach?

[Speaker 2] (1:57:00 - 1:58:01)
Yeah, I mean, I think when you asked that question previously Vivica and I were discussing, oh, yeah, we actually do have experiences in towns of 10,000. And it's basically not a different approach, it's just scaling it down. So it is that moving around and understanding the culture, like asking people what they love about living in Swampstead.

Going to, if we're able to time our visits so that if there's, as we saw on the T-shirt, Swamptoberfest, that would be super exciting. And so kind of like really tracking for what do you hold dear about Swampstead and do not want to lose, that would be in the conversations. Vega, what would you add to that?

[Speaker 14] (1:58:02 - 1:58:51)
Yeah, no, I think you captured it. I think if anything, the fact that you all are a smaller municipality allows us to have a more intimate data gathering process with you all and really get to know your community much easier, potentially, than a municipality with multiple different sub-communities within it, right? But I would say as well that that aspect is something that we would factor into the strategy building and the training side of things.

So the way that we would approach solutioning or ownership, accountability, that is where size and population would become a really key factor in how we're making sure that what we're recommending to you can actually happen and isn't just best practice for throwing out there, right? So that's where it would become a little bit more present.

[Speaker 2] (1:58:51 - 1:58:55)
Yeah, we'll keep Pete really busy for a long time, if you let us.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:56 - 1:59:01)
We'd like to, too, but that's a whole other conversation. Thank you very much, I appreciate your answer.

[Speaker 15] (1:59:04 - 1:59:05)
Any other questions?

[Speaker 8] (1:59:06 - 1:59:06)
Nope.

[Speaker 15] (1:59:08 - 1:59:12)
Okay. Thank you so much. We really appreciate your time.

[Speaker 8] (1:59:12 - 1:59:14)
Thank you. Thank you for joining us.

[Speaker 15] (1:59:24 - 1:59:32)
All right, and our final presenting team is gonna be Rhodes Consulting, and we're just activating the four members right now.

[Speaker 8] (1:59:36 - 1:59:39)
I'm pretty close to on schedule, I think. That's good.

[Speaker 21] (2:00:22 - 2:00:23)
What's your name, please?

[Speaker 11] (2:00:33 - 2:00:33)
Good evening.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:35 - 2:00:38)
Hey there. Hello. Hello.

Hello.

[Speaker 11] (2:00:42 - 2:00:58)
We're just waiting for two more colleagues to join. Let's see if Marcus and Cliff could just unlock their cameras and speech, there we go. Hey, Marcus.

Right, from East Boston.

[Speaker 9] (2:01:00 - 2:01:02)
I'm in Woodbrook.

[Speaker 11] (2:01:02 - 2:01:03)
Yep.

[Speaker 9] (2:01:05 - 2:01:08)
Is, was Cliff able to make it?

[Speaker 11] (2:01:08 - 2:01:14)
We're just checking to see if Cliff can unlock his camera. Cliff, you're gonna have to do it on your own.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:22 - 2:01:28)
Sorry, guys. Excellent.

[Speaker 11] (2:01:30 - 2:01:52)
There it is. Cliff. All right, awesome.

Well, good evening, members. Thank you for having us. We'll try to be as brief as possible.

It is 8.30, and we know we all have families to go and catch and see, so we'll get right to it. Is everybody able to see my screen now?

[Speaker 5] (2:01:53 - 2:01:54)
Yes. Yes, we can.

[Speaker 11] (2:01:55 - 2:04:01)
Awesome. All right. All right, so I am Dr. Jose Perez. I am the founder of Rhodes Consulting Group. We are a firm dedicated to supporting communities of color in disadvantaged positions. We've been doing partnerships for the last seven years, and all across the United States, we've been able and successful to do partnerships in nine states today.

More importantly and more appropriate, we've been able to do partnerships in different shapes or engagements with neighboring towns, like City of Lynn, as folks mentioned, and currently have an engagement there, City of Revere, City of Chelsea, as well as City of Boston and Providence. In the time that we've been doing our work, we've been able to do work in different facilities, DEI, restorative justice, advisory in small businesses, also economic development, marketing and whatnot, and in different themes. With me today, there is my team.

I will not go and introduce one by one, but they are here present, Stephanie Smith, Marcus Moore, and Mr. Cliff Watkins, who is a former resident of Swampskin for a very long time, so clearly knows the town and knows exactly how to get around. With that being said, there's also a QR code, as you can see on the screen, and we felt that folks that wanted to follow along that were in the audience, they could scan it and see the whole presentation of what we were gonna go and talk and be really presenting, but also for the members that wanted to know more about our group in detail, what we submitted on our proposal, they could kind of follow along. In addition, we sent over a presentation in regards of our plan of what we're gonna be doing, so you should have a booklet, and I know Stephanie will provide an overview later on in regards of what we're gonna be doing.

Without further notice, I'll pass it on to my colleague, and let him present the next stage.

[Speaker 9] (2:04:04 - 2:05:58)
Yes, thank you very much, Jose. My name is Stephanie A. Smith, and I have had the pleasure of doing diversity, equity, and inclusion work for a very long time, and well over 10 years, and so when it comes to the plan of service and the things that we're looking to do here in the town of Swampscot, and I actually can say that I'm homegrown as well, went to school at Salem State when it was a college, and then also left and came back, but in addition to this, we're gonna be taking the methodologies, the recordings, and the assessments, and making sure that these are specifically what the town needs. How we're gonna do that is we're doing a thorough review of all the town personnel, all the department policies, your practices, your procedures, and help identify some nuances that are going to be gleaming and going to be popping out when we're having these focus groups and these conversations.

We're also going to identify different minutes policies that are very similar size, and that also have the exemplary DEI programs that are either going to further your insights of some of the work that you've done, which I've heard, I believe you've done some things, so we don't wanna not utilize some of those pieces, but maybe utilize those pieces as some research to build off of, and putting that alongside with insights and lessons learned from organizations that are doing it well.

In addition, when it comes to our analyses, we're definitely going to, or at least public groups, one for town employees and one for the public, and very minimal up to, we could go more.

[Speaker 11] (2:05:58 - 2:06:06)
Sorry, Stephanie, just wanna make sure that is, can we hear, can everybody hear Stephanie? Because we're having issues here right now.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:06 - 2:06:08)
Oh, no, she's breaking up again.

[Speaker 11] (2:06:08 - 2:06:11)
She is breaking up, yeah. Ah. Stephanie, you still there?

[Speaker 9] (2:06:12 - 2:06:14)
Yes, can you hear me now?

[Speaker 11] (2:06:14 - 2:06:15)
Yep.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:15 - 2:06:15)
Yes.

[Speaker 11] (2:06:18 - 2:06:19)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:19 - 2:15:11)
Much better. Thumbs up? Okay.

Well, in addition to particularly the methodologies, we will definitely ensure that analyses are done, and we want to do these analyses through an interactive work group to engage up to 400 town employees, 50 elected officials, and then also community members, and this is to ensure that we're able to identify and sample where everybody's at in their understanding of what diversity is. And then once we sample everyone, we're able to take the nuances and use some of those nuances and some of the reporting that's gonna come from our overviews of all your policies, practices, and procedures, and identify particularly what are some areas that would be great recommendations, what findings would be great to turn into programs, and then also put together a full written assessment and strategic plan that'll touch the different areas within the entity. And speaking about that strategic plan, that strategic plan will definitely include the integration of a appointed DEI person into the internal process. We'll also set the stage for said person by doing some of the groundwork alongside with the elected officials and the appointed program managers as well.

And then we'll just making sure that the credibility of the role will also be ensured and that you have the ability to compete with other entities that are trying to hire people into a diversity role as well. And of course, as you see in the far right, there will be some timelines as well, shall I say, excuse me, and we're looking to do all these other points, organizational assessments, definitely looking to do your customized DEI training, your community engagement, strategic plan integration, monitoring and evaluation. And then of course, as I said a second ago, putting together a resource, a resource for both your team while you are going through the processes, and then also resources for the said person once they're hired in the city.

And then lastly, we're looking for this to go something in about a couple of phases. So for example, in the first phase, month one through three, we're looking to see an organizational assessment and internal recommendation to have occurred. There we will review the town personnel, your department policies, and do all that within your first 30 days.

We'll conduct an internal and initial internal data collection within the first 45 days. We're looking also within this timeframe to identify some municipalities with an exemplary DEI programs within 60 days, and then begin internal staff focus groups and surveys within those first 60 days as well. All while we're also providing preliminary recommendations for any policy recruitment that could be done and fixed at the end of month three.

And moving on to phase two, when it comes to phase two, that'll be mostly around community engagement and development. In phase two, we will working with your focus groups and surveys within the first 30 days. And then we'll be also facilitating interactive work groups for town employees up to 400 in total and community members in months four and six.

We also look to deliver the first public feedback report at the end of month six, because after about five or six months, we would have had a lot of time, a lot of time to understand your different pockets of stakeholders and identify where the pain points and would be able to identify what types of education could be rolled out quickly across the stages. And then with that, we will put together your engagement strategy with those nuances and that will be completed and also done within 90 days. So when it comes to phase three, those months seven through nine, we are looking to formalize the DEI strategic plan.

All of the collective assessments, all the collective information, all of the programming that we also have been able to identify and then either start developing, we'll be formalizing that with the strategic plan. So we'll look at the strategic plan and conclude either it's the employees or the elected appointment focus groups within the first 60 days that will be giving way to the information that needs to be done for that specific group. So for example, we foresee elected officials and other stakeholders allowing to have one-to-one coaching for they can be able to address their issues while they are totally in it as well, giving them that space, that safe space as well.

And then we'll also present the final DEI assessment report to the select board at the end of month nine and then also develop a comprehensive DEI strategic plan with short-term and long-term objectives within that 90 days. And then moving on to phase four, that's where we will be working alongside stakeholders that are, Pete, I believe, initiate and helping him initiate the DEI training programs for town employees within 30 days. We'll be developing a DEI training plan and manual that's accessible and usable.

We do have the accessibility to have, create one specifically for the town of Swampskate and have that particularly something that is owned by you. And you'll be able to see later in the, we'll touch on later that we're actually able to see real-time the data assessments from that, tracking and real-time performance and training on that. And so that's gonna be within phase four where we're implementing all those sessions and then also continuing the training programs with a range of formats, be those instance, some in small groups and some through webinars for your larger groups, being able to distribute information that is more distilled and more to the point for your higher ups, but still on the point with the context.

And then moving forward, last page here, finishing out phase five, will definitely be ongoing support and monitoring, working alongside those that we have been working with the human resources, or we'll be submitting a draft assessments of your plan and updates, looking at 18 and 24 and then monitoring the plans and making adjustments as needed. And then constantly doing some long-term evaluation as well. And so there's also all these other pieces, we'll touch the implementation plan for DEI staff.

So all those pieces kind of come together and it might seem like a lot to look at, but it felt as if that we were able to put it all there in a quick time. And please remember that what makes us different is we are here, we're ready, we already have all the packaging for immediate coaching, dashboards, and also we're here to help you find your definition of what equity means to you. And with that, I'd like to kick it over to Marcus.

[Speaker 10] (2:15:13 - 2:17:06)
Hello, beautiful people. You've just seen what is a thorough and comprehensive timeline of this work and much love to our allies in the work and in their presentation and their thorough description of their work. What we wanted to share with you in this moment is something more embodied, because when it comes time to doing this work and experiencing this work, you as a board and residents of Swampstead don't experience timeline, you experience moment.

And so what we wanna do is take you into a moment of how we do our work. And I'm gonna present to you a particular challenge. On the board is a very lovely and generic looking stock photo of diverse looking people.

And they're having fun because they're outside and they're smiling and that's what outside smiling people do. What we wanna do for you all is engage you in a particular way by asking you right here, right now, what is your definition of equity? And because we've been to the Northeast more than once, we know a lot of you have a whole lot of letters behind your name.

Some of you in this room have even written dissertations about what equity is, that's fine. We're gonna challenge you to come up with a definition of equity in six words. Those six words might be a list, they might be a sentence fragment, they might be a haiku if you have enough syllables, I don't know how you get down but you put that together in your particular way.

And to do that, we're not gonna give you the eons to think about it, we're gonna give you 45 seconds. I'm gonna play a song in the background that's gonna be playing while you think of your six words. Then we're gonna get to the hook and the hook is gonna last 15 seconds.

And when this song changes keys, your pencils are down. Those of you who are watching at home in the audience, you can go ahead and try to put something in the chat, they said it's turned off but they might be lying, come up with your six words to define equity. Ready?

Good, go.

[Speaker 21] (2:17:07 - 2:17:54)
♪ Look at me, it's going on for that thing ♪ ♪ I didn't even know you, you've been a man too much for me ♪ ♪ No time to hesitate, no time to be afraid ♪ ♪ When I was trying to see it through ♪ Here's that chorus I was talking about.

[Speaker 10] (2:18:08 - 2:18:31)
Oh, look at that, he changed. That means your pencil's got to go to DEI is not an academic exercise, not strictly, not exclusively. It's also a social exercise.

So what I want you to do, I see there are six people on the council. Each one of you has to talk to one other person and say, what is your definition? It's only six.

I can take that one. Go.

[Speaker 3] (2:18:34 - 2:18:38)
All right, go ahead. What did you write down? In communication, fairness, openness, honesty, safety.

[Speaker 10] (2:18:38 - 2:18:39)
That's equity.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:39 - 2:18:40)
You, as you are.

[Speaker 3] (2:18:40 - 2:18:41)
All the words that I can think of.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:42 - 2:18:45)
Fair for all, open to all.

[Speaker 3] (2:18:45 - 2:18:47)
I think the exercise is self-defense.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:48 - 2:18:48)
Awesome.

[Speaker 10] (2:18:50 - 2:18:56)
Ah-ha. And because you all were wise enough to speak directly into the microphones, I know that you did your homework and that you're going to look at the results.

[Speaker 27] (2:18:57 - 2:18:58)
I know. I know.

[Speaker 10] (2:19:05 - 2:21:16)
I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. But you can recognize which parts resonate with you and which parts are still left out.

Which parts are the headline and which parts got put on the editing floor, right? And so from there, the distance between what you wrote down and the thoroughness of this definition, that is where we do our training. Your RFP asks for an engagement with the community and with the board.

And so what we are prepared to do at Rose is provide you immediate coaching to talk about these distances and your understandings and your individual experiences and applications of these concepts. Because that's going to inform all the work that you do. In the same way we've watched you all ask questions about budget, there is a town treasurer who is in charge of the money.

But all of you are operating with costs in your thought bubble. Likewise, when we come up with a DEI director, they're the person operating in charge of equity. But all of you will have equity in your thought bubble for all of these questions.

That's the work that we're trying to get to. So in our assessments, we come with charisma. We know that you all are city council members, so you have never been to a boring meeting before.

But let me tell you, boring meetings are boring meetings and none of you want to be there. We want to show up in a way that gets people engaged and active, meeting them where they are, hearing them, and then presenting them with new information to grow. That's our strategy.

[Speaker 11] (2:21:18 - 2:21:54)
Thank you, Marcus. Appreciate it. And with that being said, I'll close it down just with a final presentation of the rest of our team.

We do have 26 members in our team, all with different diversity and personalities and backgrounds. And we're happy to be a very multicultural team, multi-language. And in addition to that, we're very local, as I mentioned.

I'm very excited to hear your next questions and go from there. So thank you all for tuning in and for listening, and happy to answer any questions in the end.

[Speaker 7] (2:22:00 - 2:22:00)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:02 - 2:22:05)
Do you want me to go first? Oh, I already know what yours are going to be, because you guys asked me a bunch of questions.

[Speaker 7] (2:22:05 - 2:22:06)
She has the same question.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:09 - 2:22:50)
I want to touch on something that the presenter prior said, which is how difficult DE&I could be that saying the wrong thing could be dangerous, right? Especially when you come from a leadership position, sort of if you don't know the definitions or the terminology and you step in it, it could be dangerous, right? So how do you guys combat that and make a safe place for people to have honest and open conversations and sort of put guards down a little bit to give people grace to say something that might be dangerous if they're coming from an honest place that they don't know?

[Speaker 10] (2:22:52 - 2:24:16)
I'll name a couple of things to speak to that. I gave the wrong definition intellectually. Well, then, didn't you forget about such and such's other book and the groundbreaking such and such and such?

We've been studying this work for years. There are libraries that have worked about this work. Nobody knows it all.

To the previous questions about who is doing DE&I right, this is America. Nobody's doing it right. Have you seen?

And so for this, right, we show up in a way that acknowledges, yes, there is the learning that we must do so that we also stand in relationship. There's a social aspect, right? If I have people who know me and who can vouch for me and see me doing work, then there's something to that.

There's also the morality of it, that if I approach this work with a particular value of vulnerability, of honesty, of keeping my pronouncements personal, I can say any and everything about what I know and I don't know. I can't say anything about what you all know and don't know. And then finally, an emotional resonance that shows up in this work, right?

If we try to do this work strictly objectively and in a way that is discompassionate, then we sacrifice our humanity in the process. And I think the way to survive the dangers of this work, and trust me, it is dangerous. There are a couple of folks who got shot for this work.

We show up in our humanity doing this work. And that's how we rest easy, even as we catch critiques and as we learn some things the hard way.

[Speaker 3] (2:24:18 - 2:24:19)
Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (2:24:25 - 2:24:35)
So, now I understand we're in America and nobody does it right, but in Massachusetts, who do you think is doing a good job of attempting to do it right?

[Speaker 11] (2:24:38 - 2:26:22)
I can speak a little bit in regards to the engagement we have. I will tell you that there's some communities and some neighborhoods that just do it better than others, basically, on the demographics that they're composed of. We have a long-lasting engagement with the city of Chelsea, right?

And it's hard to argue that they're doing it wrong because they're very diverse, completely, right? But then now we look at different things like expenditure, right? We want to make sure the expenditure is going also the right way.

Then we look at staff, and then we look at the way that we're promoting people and whatnot. So, they're doing a phenomenal job in regards to meeting their metrics, but a lot of it, too, fair to say, is they have a good demographics where they're standing. City of Boston has prepared a lot of initiatives and have done a lot of programming, right?

Unfortunately, when I was in college, someone used to say, you know, the war could be safe. It's just a matter of who is actually going to pay for it, right? City of Boston has a very big budget when it comes to DEI, so they can throw a lot more money, bring a lot more advisors, a lot more consultants, create a lot more programming.

So, there's a lot more information that's being put out there, right? But they're doing a good job on it. Someone mentioned Revere.

We do have an engagement with Revere, and they're doing something right. Chief of Staff happens to be Latina and Colombian, so doing something phenomenal in regards to the internal staff and around the demographics of who they're hiring and promoting. Just because of the necessities of the town and whatnot.

So, a good amount of traction there, right? So, I can speak of the ones that we have done engagement with and how they actually are impacting the communities that they're serving. And the other ones that we haven't, hopefully we can get to them at some point and assess that.

[Speaker 9] (2:26:23 - 2:27:11)
And if I may, I might piggyback off top of that. Like, from a national scale and global scale, we have had some impacts as well and also have partnered with partners who do diversity work as a beacon and tend to support all entities. Some of those partnerships are with Ceremount, and so Ceremount helps entities and government, nonprofit, and philanthropy as well.

They're one of our partners. So, when it comes to who is doing it best, we do have resources and networks and partnerships to be able to pull some of that data, specific data, that has already been researched well over 25, 30 years.

[Speaker 7] (2:27:12 - 2:27:20)
And then I just want to ask, so will you be doing this remotely or will you be here doing it in person?

[Speaker 11] (2:27:20 - 2:27:27)
It would take me about 20 minutes to get to your town. So, on a bad day, maybe 30, and then I'll go stop at the dockside since you guys like the place so much.

[Speaker 9] (2:27:27 - 2:27:30)
Yeah. Right? Up here.

Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 11] (2:27:31 - 2:27:47)
So, yeah, our office, we have two main physical locations. One is here in East Boston, Mass., and then the other one is in Houston, Texas, where we also have another office and a big engagement with Harris County as well.

[Speaker 9] (2:27:48 - 2:27:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:27:49 - 2:28:30)
But most of our people are here. Thank you. Hi, there.

Thank you very much for your very comprehensive presentation. So, my question, as I've asked to the two previous presenters, centers around us as a small town. So, we're not Revere, which is my hometown, but we're Swampscott, which is, you know, 15,000 people, give or take.

So, how would you alter your approach, if any, to deal with the climate and the environment of a small town as opposed to experiences you may have with the bigger cities like Chelsea, Lynn, Salem, and the like?

[Speaker 11] (2:28:33 - 2:28:34)
You're on mute, Cliff.

[Speaker 19] (2:28:42 - 2:28:42)
Good?

[Speaker 3] (2:28:43 - 2:28:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 19] (2:28:44 - 2:29:39)
All right. To answer your question directly, we don't really change our approach. Our approach is pretty consistent when it comes to working with entities, whether you're a for-profit entity, non-profit entity, city government, large, small, doesn't really matter.

I think what's important to recognize is how many people we can reach. And it's a little easier, as somebody had said, to reach a smaller constituency like the town of Swampscott. So, the more people you're able to reach and the more people you're able to educate about the initiative, provide training, have open conversations like Marcus had mentioned, giving people a safe space to share what they understand and what their differences are, that's where you're going to have success.

[Speaker 9] (2:29:40 - 2:31:37)
And in addition to that, for example, having comfort in those that do the work together, like for example, breaking them out into tiers. So, for example, city officials probably feel comfortable talking to other city officials, senior staff probably feel comfortable doing a survey or to be able to have a genuine conversation amongst their peers. I think it's very smart not to put someone, a supervisor with a supervisee, because they're not going to want to feel comfortable.

So, being able to make sure those rooms are sterile with the people that are in it, and also being monitored and led by someone who is known how to lead these conversations. I think it was mentioned earlier, these conversations, they're real and they're sticky at times. And part of our work is we won't just tell you what to do and then leave, but we also want to help you develop a protocol that you as a team, as a town, this is how we stand about diversity.

This is our definition of diversity. Here's our protocol of what we will do if something happens, and here's the severity of it, depending on. And being able to make those decisions alongside you by bringing some great resources of what was done in other cities and states.

And, for example, one woman on our team has done a lot of great work in the city of Cleveland and done a lot of great impact work as well. And so, being able to bring some of those best practices together, and being able to build this together, I think is the biggest impact.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:38 - 2:31:40)
Thank you very much for your answer.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:44 - 2:31:52)
So, you may have heard this before, I'll give you a chance to respond to my thoughts on union engagement and religious diversity.

[Speaker 19] (2:31:54 - 2:33:22)
Sure, I can answer that question. So, through my career, I have done work directly with unions, representing the management of the organizations. So, we've done conflict resolution, we've done union negotiations.

So, I have a pretty broad breadth of understanding what's going on and what's behind the culture of the union, an organization that's working with the union. So, I guess it's also important to understand the laws and the impacts of the laws and making sure you're following them correctly. But I think, most importantly, we would focus on the unions and what's their representation, and what's their community like, and how their community works with the rest of the town, and making sure that they have a safe place and a safe space to say what their culture is like, and what their initiatives are.

So, we would work with them just like we would work with other constituencies, like the religious communities, or the communities of the disabled. We want to make sure we're recognizing all of the different people that make up the community at Sloan Scott.

[Speaker 4] (2:33:23 - 2:33:24)
Thank you.

[Speaker 10] (2:33:24 - 2:34:26)
Can I add to that, like I would invite you to create a vertical, I see you've got your notes in front of you. I invite you to create a vertical axis, and at the top, there are people who have to do the work, and at the bottom, there are people who don't have to do the work. And if you create a horizontal axis of people who want to do the work, and people who don't want to do the work, that gives us four quadrants.

And you're going to find members of organizations in every one of those four quadrants. One of the questions about unions is the concern about can we make them do this, and how much are they going to push back when we ask them to do it. And that's real.

But we know that to be true even with Sunday school teachers. Some will want to, and some won't. Some will have to, and some won't.

And because we found that to be consistent, we've developed this model. Yours is on the back of a napkin, but we've filled it out in a whole PDF of what to do when people are in these different quadrants. So we know how to get at people and how to be productive in that space.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:28 - 2:34:29)
Thank you.

[Speaker 15] (2:34:38 - 2:34:40)
Great. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 8] (2:34:41 - 2:34:44)
Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:44 - 2:34:45)
Thank you.

[Speaker 15] (2:34:45 - 2:34:47)
Thank you.

[Speaker 8] (2:34:47 - 2:34:48)
Where's the outro?

[Speaker 1] (2:34:48 - 2:34:53)
No music for your... You don't have any music for your...

[Speaker 10] (2:34:53 - 2:35:00)
I'm sure you know I'm in the other business, and so I'm going to make a motion that from now on, you all come with a playlist for your meetings.

[Speaker 8] (2:35:01 - 2:35:07)
All right. So moved. All right.

Second. Thank you.

[Speaker 21] (2:35:07 - 2:35:08)
Thank you. Thanks again. Bye.

[Speaker 27] (2:35:10 - 2:35:11)
It's been wonderful.

[Speaker 9] (2:35:13 - 2:35:15)
Yeah. I hope to come back and boomerang back.

[Speaker 27] (2:35:18 - 2:35:19)
What?

[Speaker 3] (2:35:19 - 2:35:22)
I'm not sure I saw a little there, but... Yeah. A little feedback there.

[Speaker 5] (2:35:25 - 2:35:42)
All right. So we heard from HCH Enterprises, Ready, Set, and Rhodes Consulting Group. Again, thank you to all three of the presenters.

And now we can move on to a discussion and possible vote on a selection of a DE&I consultant.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:45 - 2:35:58)
I thought about this in the middle. What about the public input process? Do we intend to have any questions for them?

Do we intend that we would want anyone to give us feedback on this?

[Speaker 8] (2:36:02 - 2:36:10)
Has there been any outreach prior to this to just start the discussion with the community and what their thoughts are at all?

[Speaker 3] (2:36:10 - 2:37:07)
I mean, I have had community members reach out to me about it, but I don't think that there's been a formal outreach to community members to give direct feedback. I think part of the RFP was really to do an evaluation of town hall, the employees, the strategy related to that. Obviously, that involves a lot of community understanding.

And so that's, I think, why a lot of the rhetoric that was given tonight is understanding the community, understanding the people we're made up to help the employees interact more efficiently and more effectively with DE&I strategies in mind. So I don't know, I'd be interested to understand in other RFP processes if we sort of, I don't really know that we really have engaged public information. Not that we can't.

[Speaker 15] (2:37:07 - 2:37:27)
Not that we can't, but the RFP was written that it is a review by the selection committee, then by the select board. Generally, we do include, when possible, public feedback, but it wasn't explicitly outlined. So it's certainly up to the board if you would choose to do something and what you would want to do.

[Speaker 8] (2:37:27 - 2:37:31)
But people have had an opportunity, right? They would have been able to come.

[Speaker 15] (2:37:32 - 2:37:43)
And the proposals have been made public. And we have received questions. We've made sure to point people to those proposals.

Great.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:43 - 2:38:09)
Thank you. So one thing that I would like to recommend is that we not vote on this tonight, because I'd like to think about and maybe even watch a couple of these again. But we put this on a future agenda, you know, relatively soon.

But we also have public comment prior to us making a vote, just in case anybody who's watching wants to come in and make a comment.

[Speaker 3] (2:38:11 - 2:38:34)
Yeah, I would guess the only caution I have about that is to sort of manage expectations of public comment. Because the idea isn't that we would invite these folks back, so we would do the best we could to answer questions as related to the information in the packages. But just to manage everybody's time and energy efficiently, I think, yeah, I think that's a good idea.

[Speaker 15] (2:38:34 - 2:38:39)
Or if it was focused where you're looking for feedback as opposed to questions.

[Speaker 7] (2:38:39 - 2:38:41)
Correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 1] (2:38:41 - 2:38:44)
Or, you know, if folks had questions, they could email us.

[Speaker 7] (2:38:44 - 2:38:46)
Yep, right. Absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (2:38:47 - 2:39:35)
Certainly, I think if we give this a little time, you know, we want to make the best decision that we can. And I think we can circle back around at a next meeting or a relatively soon meeting. I mean, this is a hard decision.

We have a good problem to have. You have three firms that have been finalized. We had a number of really great proposals.

And I think each of these firms could do a wonderful job engaging the community. Several seem to be eager to go to some of our local pubs. That can't be a bad thing.

So, certainly, you know, I want to thank everybody for their time. And, you know, we can circle back.

[Speaker 7] (2:39:36 - 2:39:54)
One issue that I do have that, you know, is the concern that we have 150 employees with the town, we have 400 with the schools, and that we're not working together. So that's causing an issue for me.

[Speaker 15] (2:39:54 - 2:40:18)
I unfortunately missed it when you asked the question earlier. But the school department has already done. We did ask the superintendent beforehand, before we released this, what engagement.

And the superintendent notified us that they have done a DEI assessment. And so she would certainly want to learn and be part of that process. But as far as the department and the teachers were concerned, they've gone through that process.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:18 - 2:40:20)
And they're in that implementation element.

[Speaker 21] (2:40:23 - 2:40:23)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:25 - 2:40:27)
A little catch up to do on the town side.

[Speaker 15] (2:40:28 - 2:40:33)
Correct. Yeah. Unfortunately, we weren't part of that process.

So we're now doing our process.

[Speaker 5] (2:40:33 - 2:40:40)
And, Pete, do you have an idea of when the superintendent, when the schools went through this process or started that process?

[Speaker 15] (2:40:40 - 2:40:47)
She didn't explicitly say, but it's implied that it was pretty recent. But I don't know definitively when that was.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:47 - 2:40:48)
We can look into that.

[Speaker 8] (2:40:48 - 2:42:17)
I think the piece that is concerning about that is that while it's similar work, it might be in a different scope or done a different way. And they really should be collaborative and compatible in terms of what we're expecting of certain town employees, we expect of all town employees. So schools fall under that jurisdiction as well.

So, I mean, any DEI initiative has to kind of go with hand in hand almost with an HR, driven by HR or, you know, with an HR component to it where everybody's on the same page. And we're all kind of, you know, learning the same things and all being brought up to speed in the same way. So I think that that's probably a bigger conversation with the schools in general.

Right. Because they've already done what they've done, whatever that might be. But going forward, you know, earlier to that point, we do need to work on collaboration between school and town.

But I think that if we, I think we are kind of in arrears almost on this. So it is important. It is something that we need to, we need to move forward.

Right. Even though ideally it would be together. But, you know, that's out of the bag.

We can't go back on that now. We do still have to do what we need to do on our side. But I think if we give people the opportunity to e-mail us if they have any feedback about what they heard tonight, we can certainly take it into consideration when we're deciding and maybe get it on the agenda for the next meeting or, you know, whatever that is.

[Speaker 5] (2:42:17 - 2:42:49)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this has been a long, this has been a long, this has been a long, very lengthy, thorough process.

I certainly want to have, you know, ensure that we're listening to the constituents and their, you know, providing us with their feedback, certainly. But I do think that this board needs to decision this at our next meeting. So, yes, let's include that on our agenda at our next meeting and certainly have a discussion then.

[Speaker 7] (2:42:49 - 2:42:56)
If we, Pete, if we have a question for one of these companies, can we send that to you and can you forward it to them? Yep. Great.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:57 - 2:43:40)
Yeah, I think to, again, to manage expectations of feedback, the questions should be relative to process. Yeah, like I guess if it's about DE&I in general, then like let's wait until we hire a consultant and get and start to do the work. And if you have, you know, I would think that the questions or feedback we were looking for would be more specific to the individuals or the companies that are putting forth their.

RFPs. Yeah, RFPs and anything that they've presented. But, you know, we are going to get to the point we're going to have to sit down and have tough conversations about definitions in this realm and maybe that's better served post.

[Speaker 15] (2:43:40 - 2:43:51)
I think our finance director wants to make a, just remind the board about the fact that where these funds are coming from and the need of action. Sure. If they need.

[Speaker 17] (2:43:52 - 2:44:16)
Yeah, so I just want to make clear because this money was appropriated in the general fund budget, a contract does need to be signed in the next four weeks or the money disappears. So while I don't want to rush what Katie and David has stressed, what has been a very long process on our end, I do want to make clear that this money is only available in FY 24.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:17 - 2:44:19)
Okay, we'll spend the money and we don't worry.

[Speaker 17] (2:44:21 - 2:44:22)
And do we have budget detail?

[Speaker 3] (2:44:24 - 2:44:25)
Yes, we do.

[Speaker 15] (2:44:25 - 2:44:26)
We do have that.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:26 - 2:44:29)
It's in the responses to the RFPs.

[Speaker 15] (2:44:29 - 2:44:30)
It's a non-public version.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:30 - 2:44:33)
Which Pete can make available to you if you've not already seen them.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:34 - 2:44:36)
Just be interesting to see kind of where the money is allocated.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:36 - 2:44:37)
We'll get it out.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:44:38 - 2:44:43)
All right, additional comments, questions from the board? Otherwise, we'll table this, pick this up at our next meeting.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:44 - 2:44:51)
Thanks, Pete.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:51 - 2:44:52)
Thank you, Pete. Thank you, Pete.

[Speaker 5] (2:44:56 - 2:45:18)
All right. We'll move on to the next item on our agenda, discussion and possible vote of reuse of town's ARPA funds. We do have some folks in the audience.

And I know that a number of folks did want to speak on this. So I would give them the opportunity to do so now. Yes, sir.

[Speaker 13] (2:45:33 - 2:46:22)
Jonathan Lehman, town meeting member in Precinct 6, and also I'm vice chair of the Swampscott Historical Commission. I wanted to thank this body, the select board, for the vote on April 17th for ARPA. As a townsperson, I was certainly blown away by the number and the variety of the areas that you were able to fund with ARPA.

I had no idea that the resources were extensive enough to be able to fund. Excuse me.

[Speaker 1] (2:46:25 - 2:46:28)
John, I have a loss. Did that help?

[Speaker 13] (2:46:49 - 2:46:55)
It's Werther's original. Yeah. Sorry about that.

All right. Anybody else?

[Speaker 21] (2:46:56 - 2:46:56)
No, thank you.

[Speaker 13] (2:46:57 - 2:51:11)
So I did want to thank you for that. The $100,000 that was earmarked for the Historical Commission is extremely important in terms of our ability to be able to save the General John Glover Farmhouse. And we were delighted that you gave us that consideration.

And we were also, I have to say, very impressed. The Historical Commission met following that discussion, following that vote, and talked about the fact that we had a better chance of saving it. And we've certainly progressed quite a bit in terms of fundraising, in terms of interest, in terms of finding a place for the house.

But we were also very pleased about the other areas. I know that there's been a lot of discussion because there are obviously different priorities. Certainly, we would have liked all of it to go to Glover.

But I understand that the other areas are also important. Some of them I'm familiar with. Some of them I'm not.

Obviously, you folks are. And we really appreciate the fact that you gave it that consideration. In each, I understand, and the sewers have an opportunity that was explained in detail to be funded elsewhere.

And I understand that. I'm also aware that the town has been working on the sewer project. And somehow, I think some people in town feel like we've neglected the sewers.

That's certainly far from the truth because during COVID, I know that our street was worked on. And they put liners in the sewers. And I actually, having nothing to do during COVID, I talked to the driver of the truck.

And he showed me a monitor inside. And I remember commenting that, to me, it looked like a colonoscopy in a very large way. But they actually go in.

And that's the process for relining our sewers. So I can tell you firsthand that I saw that. And I'm glad that you're extending it further.

I know there was some discussion tonight about kind of a popular vote, if you will. Or maybe it's social media discussion about the fact that we really need to just address the sewers. But honestly, I think it's very much like the discussion you had tonight, the candidates, the diversity, equity, and inclusion.

While input is important from the public, it's something that you folks are going to have to think about and decide. Because I don't think your average person really understands. They certainly haven't reviewed the RFP.

It's very complex. And that's why you make those decisions. And I think the same thing goes for ARPA, quite honestly.

You're close to it. And it's a decision that's going to rest with you. So while the sentiment might be that, you know, my God, we've got to do something about the beaches, what a lot of people probably don't realize is that Swamp Scots Pipe is right next to Lynn's.

So there's a lot to do with working together. And I know they're working on it as well. We are.

I know we're going to put as much as we can into it. But it's kind of this is very important for these small amounts, kind of a drop in a bucket, if you will, in terms of the cost of repairing a sewer and the fact that that money is available elsewhere. So I urge you to kind of ratify what you had discussed before.

And I thank you for considering all those areas very much. Thank you, Mr. Whitten.

[Speaker 27] (2:51:11 - 2:52:47)
Thank you. I am Barbara DePico, Precinct 2. And I would urge you to use the ARPA funds for the sewer.

And I have a long story about that, but I'm not going to tell the whole story. When I was a child, my mother wouldn't let us play at Kings Beach. That's been an ongoing situation.

I'm glad we're working on trying to get it fixed. But I'm also now part of the 30% of our town that are seniors, many of whom are retired and on fixed income. And I will tell each of you that when you're on a fixed income and that big paycheck is down here, the first few years it goes okay.

Yeah, the bills go up a little bit, but the pay doesn't go up. And then you get to the point where now what are we not going to pay? Okay?

To increase the water and sewer bills to pay for this when the ARPA money is available to me is just wrong. Not that at some point the water and sewer bills aren't going to keep going up, because I know they are. But we can lessen the impact by using the ARPA funds and get the beaches cleaned sooner.

And that's it. Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (2:52:48 - 2:52:52)
Thank you, Ms. Caputrow. Mr. Schultz.

[Speaker 25] (2:52:58 - 2:54:54)
Good evening. Since I was outed at a town meeting when they did the roll call vote, I will announce my full name is Willis Jackson Schultz, Jr. I am the chair of the Harbor and Waterfront Advisory Committee and town meeting member precinct 3. I thought I was going to be doing public comment, so I did write something.

So if you'll just bear with me, I'll read off what I was going to read. So it began by saying thank you for the opportunity to speak on revisiting the allocation of the ARPA funds. I don't agree with doing this.

The decision for how best to allocate the funds was already made, and members of the community had ample opportunity to express their concerns and viewpoints on this. I understand that the motivation for revisiting your decision was due to a request to reallocate all the ARPA funds towards Kings Beach. There is already money allocated towards the effort to clean up Kings Beach, and redirecting the ARPA funds will not clean it up any faster.

Even if Swampscott was pristine, the largest outflow comes from Lynn. Meanwhile, all the other town needs will be put on hold. Swampscott has many needs in town, and one of the most pressing needs is storm resiliency.

We have all seen the flooding when we get a storm from the southeast. Flooding on Humphrey Street, along Kings Beach, Ismans, and Preston Beach. With sea level rise, this is only going to get worse.

The time to act on storm resiliency was many, many yesterdays ago. Swampscott is behind the eight ball when it comes to storm resiliency, and I ask that you not reallocate the ARPA funds directed towards this effort. In fact, I think all the previous agreed upon proposals should still remain intact.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Schultz.

[Speaker 5] (2:54:55 - 2:54:58)
We do have a hand on Teams.

[Speaker 26] (2:55:08 - 2:55:44)
Hi, yes, this is Lillian Worthley again. I spoke earlier during the public comment period, but I just wanted to come back on and request that the sustainability manager position and the resiliency expenditures come from the ARPA funds, because I feel that that is the most expedient mechanism for this to go forward. This is such an urgent issue, and we really need to be going at this full force, so I would like to have the way that it was decided on earlier to remain, so thank you.

[Speaker 5] (2:55:45 - 2:56:00)
Thank you, Ms. Worthley. We are in receipt of some additional emails from members of the community who could not be here this evening.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:02 - 2:56:09)
I think the one from Mr. Pico, we got another email right before we joined. Got it.

[Speaker 5] (2:56:11 - 2:57:35)
I'd like to read Ryan Hale's comment. This is from Ryan Hale, chair of the Capital Improvement Committee. I'm unable to join tonight's meeting and would like to provide comment related to the agenda item discussion and possible vote of reuse of town's ARPA funds.

You can read my comments below into the meeting minutes. As Capital Improvement Committee chair and town meeting member, I was dismayed to see that the select board is considering uses for ARPA funds that might deviate from the financial plans adopted just last week at annual town meeting. As you are aware, our budgeting processes are deliberately slow and transparent to allow for consideration and comment on spending options and ensure that we balance the short and long term needs of our community and maintain fiscal discipline.

I strongly urge the select board to make no changes to the capital and operating budgets, including the sources and uses of funds like ARPA, to execute capital projects without the full involvement of CIC, FinCom, and town meeting. Doing otherwise would directly undermine the credibility and discipline that town meeting and the select board demonstrated last week in response to hastily concocted floor amendments to the school budget. Feel free to reach out to me with additional feedback or questions.

And again, I apologize for not being available for public comment in person tonight. Sincerely, Ryan Hale, CIC Chair, REC Member, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 2. Did you want to read Al's note?

[Speaker 3] (2:57:36 - 2:57:54)
Well, I think that... You should have a hot coffee. I do, but then he sent a follow-up email so I'm not sure.

[Speaker 7] (2:57:56 - 2:58:00)
What was his follow-up email saying? Oh, I saw the one he's already allocated for last year?

[Speaker 3] (2:58:00 - 2:58:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:58:01 - 2:58:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:02 - 2:58:06)
I don't know that it makes sense. Because he was commenting on something that we've already allocated funds for.

[Speaker 5] (2:58:06 - 3:00:45)
Got it. Got it. There's also a comment from Kim Martin Epstein.

Doug, I'm happy to read it. I pulled it up. Yep.

Select board, I'm unable to make it to the public comment portion of the select board meeting on Wednesday, May 29th. So instead, I'm sending my thoughts and questions to you in an email. It's my understanding that there's a lack of agreement amongst the select board about the use of approximately $2.1 million of ARPA dollars. I also understand there's a previously discussed list of town projects which could receive these funds broken into authorized amounts for each. There are a selection of town-wide capital improvements that have some urgency attached to them, which notably includes an amount allocated for a public housing authority redevelopment feasibility study. First, I would like to understand why the items on the list do not rise to the level of consensus when it comes to funding them.

I understand that the beach sewer pipe fix, that was already slated for a public works project, and for which, by the way, I think the town could and should apply for grant funds for mass development, is now proposed to absorb all of the ARPA with no proposal on how to do these other enumerated projects. What is the reason for this? It seems like instead of doing all the necessary projects, we'd be making a decision to indefinitely postpone some very important things when, between ARPA and other public funding mechanisms, we can do them all.

If I was at the meeting, I would ask you at the microphone to please tell me why you would do this. I would also want to comment in particular on the public housing redevelopment feasibility piece. As you know, I've been the chairperson of the Affordable Housing Trust since its inception.

One of the first things the trust did was to explore how we could interface with, assist, and otherwise get to know the housing authority and the issues facing that old, crumbling housing stock. To say we're rebuffed for our efforts would be an understatement. But now, we have a housing authority board who are very interested and ready to talk about redevelopment, and are taking steps to bring in the right partners to do so.

This is an incredible moment, an opportunity window that we cannot squander. The housing authority may be under the control of the Commonwealth, but the people that live here are Swampscot residents, and we owe it to them to do whatever we can to get that property redeveloped, improved, even expanded. The housing authority simply does not have the capacity to do that themselves, and the funds to get them aligned with an appropriate partner is a very, very small price to pay for this process.

Please reconsider any actions that would take this list of projects off the table for the ARPA funding, and please feel free to reach out to me and discuss, in particular, the process related to the public housing redevelopment. Kim Martin Epstein. Okay.

Yeah, we have Arthur Friedman.

[Speaker 7] (3:00:51 - 3:01:13)
Yes, sir. Dr. Friedman? Arthur, you are muted.

It says mute on his thing.

[Speaker 3] (3:01:14 - 3:01:25)
Can you unmute yourself? Arthur, can you unmute yourself?

[Speaker 22] (3:01:26 - 3:01:30)
There you go. I've tried, actually, not having success.

[Speaker 8] (3:01:32 - 3:01:32)
We can hear you.

[Speaker 22] (3:01:33 - 3:03:27)
You're good. We got you. You got you.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the board reconsidering this issue.

There's only so much money available for certain projects. Again, I think my opinions expressed before and other colleagues was that this is a safety issue for the town. That's one of the highlights of our town is to use the beaches, and we're not talking about Lynn.

We're talking about Fisherman's Beach. Lynn is a separate item in some ways because they have some funding, and the plans are there to do everything, but when we start the project going more, it already started, but to start it and facilitate it to move ahead, I think the ARPA fund would get things going, and I know we're going to have to borrow money or raise the sewer fees eventually to get this completed, but I think it's important to get this started as soon as we can. I mean continue getting it worked the next step ahead to try to get the pollution control under control so we can use our beaches safely, and that's just my comment.

Yes, we're all going after the same funds here, and so it's a matter of I don't know who speaks loudest, but I think everything is important, but I think the safety of our residents, our children is also very important. I hate to see beaches never used because it's so polluted, and I cringe when I see children playing in the water when I know there's a possibility there is contamination, and I'll also make a comment. I don't know what happened with the testing services.

That was put off a couple of meetings ago as far as obtaining the machine to test the water. That's kind of, again, I'm not privy to what's going on with that, but thank you for listening to me. Thank you, Dr. Friedman.

[Speaker 5] (3:03:36 - 3:03:37)
Additional comments from the board?

[Speaker 7] (3:03:38 - 3:07:07)
I'm the one who actually asked that this be brought up. I've asked several times to the point where I had to start asking in an open meeting. So with that, what I'm looking to do is to, it's my opinion, is just to repurpose some of the money, not all of the money, and I did just turn around and take the information that we were given last night from Sean and break it down just so you can follow as I'm walking through it.

So what I want to do is I want to make a motion to repurpose the ARPA funds to include $1,000,606,555 for the Fisherman's Shovel Ready Project. I'd like to see $50,000 towards the Swampscott Housing Authority redevelopment and request the Housing Trust, which I'm sure Kim Martin Epstein would be more than happy to support, putting another $50,000 from the trust money. They have $651 in their budget.

I think after they move money over to Pine Street, it will come down to $351, so that's $351 sitting in there. I've put here $60,000 on a town-wide economic development study. The economic development study that we were sent from Marshfield, the cost from Marshfield was $60,000, so that will cover that.

I'm recommending $30,000 for the resiliency manager to start off with a consultant, see how that works, possibly work with other communities, regionalize. Fisherman's Beach, the IDDE MS-4, leave that. Public health, move that to $50,000, and I would hope within that $50,000 that they could also incorporate a mindfulness class, because I did hear at town meeting that there was a possibility that the mindfulness class might get cut at the school.

I'm recommending $50,000 for General Glover House, $50,000 for upgrade to Town Parks, and I'm also asking to consider the possibility of putting $75,000 into a reading curriculum that would assist the school district. The reason I'm putting that in there is because when I was looking at their budget, and I have been looking at some of the news, stuff in the media about the governor putting more emphasis on reading and how that's really a little bit under the mark in Massachusetts, I thought if we were to put a little additional money over there that that might be helpful. So I want to put it out there.

I think it would be a good idea to put a little bit of support. I think it will go a long way. That's just my thought on that.

So my motion is the $1606,555 for fishermen and the $415 for the projects that I just presented.

[Speaker 3] (3:07:10 - 3:10:46)
I'll second the motion to promote discussion. Thank you. The motion.

Part of the thing that I think we've sort of missed the mark on in our many ARPA discussions, because there have been many, it wasn't just the one where Doug got up and taught us all about where money could come from other than ARPA for pipes, but we've been having this discussion for quite some time. Well, we've had some of these discussions. We have been very focused on pipes and infrastructure because that's what our community engagement studies and the finance committee and other committees in town have asked us to look at.

Now, I felt like leaving that conversation, I understood from Doug's seat why we shouldn't spend or why the majority felt like we shouldn't spend ARPA funds on the sewers. I didn't understand why we should spend ARPA funds the way we did. And that's not because there wasn't documents in here or things to be had.

I didn't know where dollar amounts came from. I didn't know, you know, just some real information that I felt like we could have done better explaining some of these important initiatives and how they came to the table as important initiatives over sewer. Now, I, like Mrs. DiPietro, have the feeling that if there's a mechanism here to save town payers money, that should be our number one priority. Not to hell with all the other priorities, but in my feeling here, that is my biggest priority. We've already gone forward and potentially are instituting the CPA, which will increase, with exemptions, a tax burden on some of our community members. And as Mrs. DiPietro said, going forward, we are not going to be able to fix the pipes with 2.1 or any dollar amount coming out of ARPA. We are going to need to be doing more and more and more. And so we've also just had a very difficult town meeting regarding the school budget, and we've made a commitment to have tough conversations about the school budget going forward. We are negotiating major contracts in the upcoming years with fire, police, the teachers' union.

All these things are expensive. And I can't tell you today that next year we won't be in the seat raising taxes to cover some of these other items, which are not nice-to-haves. They're must-haves.

Public safety, teachers. So for me, I would like to do the best I can today to help fixed-income residents and other residents not have this issue today, because I know that I might not have any mechanism to help them tomorrow. So that's the position I'm in.

I understand that we wear many hats. We balance many items. I get that, but I just really feel it's important for us to think about next year and the year after and the year after and how we are going to be able to budget appropriately without having ARPA ever.

ARPA is a one-time fund. We'll never get it again. So if we can help today, we should help today, because we know tomorrow we won't have ARPA funds to help.

[Speaker 5] (3:10:48 - 3:16:00)
Thanks, Katie. No, just my two cents is balance. Balance, balance, balance.

Mary Ellen, I think this does look to address some of the balance here. I thought the original proposal that was made and voted on April 17th really addressed a number of issues and really addressed balance within our community, more so than this amended proposal does. Just my things, one of the things that really stands out to me is just no funding whatsoever for resiliency projects.

There's a small $30,000 allocation as proposed for a consultant. I really believe that we needed that resiliency manager, that Climate Action and Resiliency Manager, probably two decades ago. This position pays for itself.

I looked at this as really us planting seeds and making these investments that will bear fruit and help our community not only today, but well into the future. So I really believe that we really need to get off the snide and do something. We need to look at the breakwater.

We need to evaluate that. It may take us 10 years, but we have to start today. We had to start decades ago.

It's so incredibly important. We're a coastal community. We can clean up our beaches, but if we're talking, we sat in a meeting two months ago, and we heard from our consultants.

We heard from Mr. Schultz, and we heard from Jay Borkland for the first time about retreat. We heard about retreat. We heard about the fact that folks who live in our town, that those houses, those structures may not be there at some point in the future, like 2070, 2050.

Who knows? I mean, it could be sooner than we have initially imagined. So respectfully, I believe we need to be looking at these resiliency projects.

I believe we need to be looking at a climate action and resiliency manager. I mean, I'm really in favor of, you know, all of these initiatives that we had. I do think there's some ability for, you know, to ask the Affordable Housing Trust to contribute some funds to a housing authority redevelopment feasibility study.

I think the reason that we had gone at that $100,000 amount was, you know, we would rather have more funds allocated towards this than fewer. And if we ended up getting something at a lesser amount, those funds could be, you know, reallocated for another purpose. But really, I just think that we really need to have, we really need to take balance into account.

And, you know, one of the things that was mentioned, you know, during the DE&I presentations were, you know, folks that are normally not heard, you know. And, you know, we've certainly received a lot of feedback from folks that are, you know, advocates to fix King's Beach and Fisherman's Beach. And I think all of us that's sitting up on the dais are all in agreement that we want to fix.

We want to fix our sewers. We want to make sure that we're not in violation of the Clean Water Act. And we've put a plan together.

We've worked tirelessly. Town staff has worked tirelessly to put together and with consultants to put together an asset management plan that really highlights what needs to happen. You know, throwing money at this is not, throwing money at the sewers is not going to fix the problem any faster.

I certainly understand, you know, the need to keep our sewer rates as low as possible. However, you know, ratepayers have, you know, we've chronically underinvested here. I just want to make sure that we have balance and that we're not chronically underinvesting in every other priority that we have.

So my concern is that we become so myopic and focused on fixing one issue that we ignore all of the other issues. We are not an advocacy board. We are a select board.

So, you know, I really caution us and want to ensure that we have balance and that we can address all of these issues. And I believe Ms. Kim Martin Epstein's point was we can do it all. We can address all of these things.

And again, I mean, what good is fixing the pipes if we're not addressing our climate action and resiliency initiatives in town?

[Speaker 7] (3:16:00 - 3:16:46)
So I'd like to answer that because I did put this proposal. I have outlined here how we can bring balance and put money into almost every line item here. The line items that I don't have money next to, we have already have multiple projects, capital projects going.

We have other funding sources. There's grants available. But the biggest thing is there is nothing here that we cannot put on a capital plan.

There is nothing here that keeps us from making this happen. I mean, resiliency projects, we could put resiliency projects in the capital plan. Why didn't we have more resiliency projects in the capital plan this year?

[Speaker 4] (3:16:47 - 3:16:51)
Because we had it in ARPA.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:51 - 3:16:53)
We never had that discussion. We did have that discussion.

[Speaker 4] (3:16:53 - 3:17:00)
I actually literally said, let's move it over to the capital plan. And we said, oh, we don't need to do that because we have it in ARPA.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:00 - 3:17:12)
The capital plan was finished long before March 17th, before April 17th. Yes, the capital plan was done before April 17th. So if you were having conversations with other people, they were not out in front of you.

[Speaker 4] (3:17:12 - 3:17:23)
Right here, Mary Ellen, we had that conversation. No. We intentionally did this all together on purpose.

We brought the ARPA together and the capital plan together so that we could look at them together. We literally had...

[Speaker 7] (3:17:23 - 3:18:27)
Well, I have to respectfully disagree with you because I've been in these meetings. I haven't missed one of them. And I do not remember ever saying, we're going to put resiliency in here and we're going to just leave it at a capital.

So my number one concern here is by putting this proposal together, we are able to touch every one of these categories except for a few. And we're also to give relief to taxpayers. And we're able to put a little bit more of advancement into getting our infrastructure worked on.

If you read the infrastructure report, it's going to jar you. The amount of money and the amount of work that needs to go into our infrastructure. And I'm not even talking about the problem on the beaches.

I'm talking about the dollar amount of our assets that are over 100 years old. We need to really get money into those. And an additional $1.6 million to give a little bit of relief to a number of our residents, I think, goes a long way.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:28 - 3:18:48)
Okay. Just make sure that I think we're all at least operating on the same basic thing, which is that unless I'm missing something, this proposal doesn't change how much or how fast or anything we're fixing pipes. This is just replacing one source for another.

[Speaker 7] (3:18:48 - 3:18:55)
We're not replacing any source. We still have money available in capital to continue our work. We're adding more money.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:57 - 3:19:05)
So your proposal is to keep what was in capital and add another $1.6 million.

[Speaker 7] (3:19:06 - 3:19:50)
Yes. So capital has been approved. That's already done.

We don't have the authority to change anything, and I don't even have a desire to change anything. So capital is there. We start using this money.

When we're done with this money and when we're ready, we can tap right into that capital project, those capital funds. We're going to be having to use quite a bit. You know we're going to have to use a lot of money to work on our infrastructure.

I am not recommending making any changes whatsoever to capital. That's not in our wheelhouse. This is an addition to, and we can start.

We pass this tonight. Gino can start tomorrow.

[Speaker 5] (3:19:52 - 3:20:01)
We've already allocated. Isn't there still IDBE and MS-4 work that needs to commence before construction can start?

[Speaker 1] (3:20:01 - 3:20:27)
Yeah, there'll need to be some engineering. We do have a shovel-ready project that is ready for Fisherman's Beach, but certainly for a broader scope, we have to do some engineering investigation. I think the recommendation here is that these dollars are going to supplement the capital in terms of the work that we've scheduled.

[Speaker 8] (3:20:29 - 3:20:40)
So I have some questions. I have a number of questions. My first is for Amy.

Amy, can you tell me, is this 2.021555 what the actual balance is?

[Speaker 17] (3:20:40 - 3:21:01)
Is that accurate as of right now? The vote that was taken on April 17th was for 2,001,21555. So unless I missed part of Mary Ellen's motion, it's 100,000 that isn't allocated or reallocated.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:02 - 3:21:23)
To be fair, I think that's what Sean... I mean, I think originally the Housing Authority number was 200,000, and now it's 100,000 here. I assume that was because we've kind of learned that maybe we don't need 200,000.

Is that intentional, or is that... No. Yeah, I think it was...

[Speaker 8] (3:21:24 - 3:21:29)
So that means there's 100,000 outside. What is correct is what I want to know. So it's 2.021?

[Speaker 3] (3:21:30 - 3:21:48)
On the original meeting, Danielle, the Swanscot Public Housing Redevelopment Feasibility Study, the recommendation was 200,000. So that is what is off about the map here. So on that line, the first line...

[Speaker 21] (3:21:48 - 3:21:48)
It's the first line? Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (3:21:50 - 3:21:58)
The original amount was 200,000, and so now there's an additional $100,000 that can be played in Mary Ellen's...

[Speaker 8] (3:21:58 - 3:22:03)
Okay, so we originally had 2.1. Now we have 2 million, right, Amy? Yeah. Is that accurate?

[Speaker 3] (3:22:04 - 3:22:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 17] (3:22:05 - 3:22:22)
I also, while you guys are discussing, I do want to say, while I like the idea of the 75,000 for the curriculum for the school, the ARPA monies cannot be expended for the school because they receive their ESSER monies. So that one would not be in eligible use.

[Speaker 1] (3:22:22 - 3:22:42)
Yeah, it's been pretty clear. You know, those ESSER dollars are for educational, secondary educational, and ARPA for civic. Right.

But, you know, our library could run some of those programs. You know, we could collaborate, you know, with the schools in kind of a creative way.

[Speaker 3] (3:22:43 - 3:22:51)
Well, they have already... They have to purchase that curriculum. They've already committed to purchase the curriculum, the schools have.

So I think the purpose was...

[Speaker 1] (3:22:51 - 3:22:53)
We're not going to be able to co-mingle the dollars with...

[Speaker 8] (3:22:53 - 3:22:58)
So, Amy, are you saying that the schools, we cannot... None of the ARPA funds can be utilized for schools?

[Speaker 5] (3:22:59 - 3:22:59)
No, they cannot.

[Speaker 8] (3:23:00 - 3:23:03)
No. Okay. Okay, so that's...

[Speaker 5] (3:23:03 - 3:23:31)
However, however, there, you know, there was a... You know, there were discussions at town meeting, you know, from Suzanne Bright, who mentioned, you know, really a mental health crisis within the schools and certainly within the communities as we're emerging from COVID, et cetera. So I do think that, you know, maybe we can't use the $75,000 on a reading curriculum, but perhaps we can reallocate some of those dollars towards public health.

[Speaker 25] (3:23:31 - 3:23:32)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 7] (3:23:32 - 3:23:35)
With an emphasis on mindfulness and everything.

[Speaker 1] (3:23:35 - 3:24:07)
We've actually reached out to Marble Head Counseling Center. We've had meetings. I've had Representative Armini with me talking about how do we actually work as a community to broaden some of these public health and mental health programs?

You know, maybe have an office over at Reach Arts. So there might be a way for us to actually collaborate with the school district and meet the spirit of the ARPA dollars without violating, commingling some of the funds.

[Speaker 7] (3:24:07 - 3:24:18)
So if that additional money were put up into, you're saying under... Public health. Public health.

With the emphasis on working together.

[Speaker 1] (3:24:18 - 3:26:03)
So, absolutely. But what would make a little bit of sense to me, and again, this is the board's prerogative, and I think it's important for us to work through this as carefully as possible. I think we had a wonderful town meeting.

We actually thought critically about, you know, the fiduciary responsibilities we share. Let's take a deep breath, and maybe at our next meeting, give us a chance to kind of work through some of these issues, come back, and see if we can build consensus. I think, you know, we can get more input.

We talked about, you know, hearing from some folks. We've got a lot of boards and committees that have taken the time to sit here. Nobody has a bad idea.

Keeping this town affordable, absolutely. We all want to do that. We all want to fix our resource areas desperately.

There are lots of state and federal funding programs to help us do that. There aren't a lot of state and federal funding programs for some of the areas that we're talking about tonight, like mental health, like making sure that we actually take care of, you know, some of the, you know, smaller, you know, buckets here. That said, this is why you're elected.

You know, I've presented some recommendations. You've got to kind of, you know, get to consensus on this. I just think, you know, we should really think about this carefully.

There's no money here for pedestrian safety and public safety. We have literally reports, complete streets. We have millions of dollars' worth of projects that have been identified as critical.

[Speaker 8] (3:26:03 - 3:27:39)
So that's part of my question, actually, because so I'm trying to understand. So let me first say, I think it's fair to say you guys are kind of divided, right, because if I weren't here or the person before me wasn't here, it would be two to two. So it seems like it's a little bit conflicted, you guys.

So thank you, Amy, for confirming that, because that was the first piece. My other thought is how do you come to these amounts? Because to me, it seems like we're playing with monopoly money, right?

It seems like here's $100,000, here's $200,000, here's $50,000. If we're trying to satisfy 10 different priorities, why can't we be a little bit more conservative in each area and make sure that they're balanced throughout, right? So, you know, maybe the feasibility study for the Housing Authority, certainly worthwhile.

Everything on here is a worthwhile venture, right? But maybe that's, you know, we're not going to let it cost $100,000. Maybe we're going to look at one that costs $75,000, right, or whatever.

My issue when I looked at this was, OK, pedestrian safety for $500,000. You just approved a capital plan for pedestrian safety for $300,000. So what does that entail, right?

I like to see the scope. I like to see actual upgrades to parks. What parks?

What are we upgrading? What are we talking? I like to see actual numbers.

Just to me, the way this is put together is kind of random.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:40 - 3:30:05)
You know? It's not random because if you go back to our master plan or our capital plan, you'll see many of these projects. You'll see pedestrian safety.

You'll see a lot of the planning that goes into this. We had to take, you know, it's not a lot of money. I mean, we have a capital plan that has tens of millions of dollars that we plan out over a 20 or 30 year horizon.

This was an opportunity for us to really look at, how do we see a number of projects? It's not based on monopoly at all. $100,000 is basically kind of a rule of thumb for doing some feasibility study, hiring a team of architects to go in and do some current conditions assessment for the housing authority, work with DHCD, maybe get some matching funds to actually help identify where are the real inadequacies of that facility so we can start talking about the specifics of those properties and helping to build consensus, not in Swampskip, but with state agencies that fund the investments in public housing. It's a small amount of money, but it could absolutely bring millions worth of an investment for Swampskip residents. And we look at other communities that have moved forward with revitalizing their public housing properties, and they're successful because they have municipal leaders, not just housing authority board members, but municipal leaders that say, these housing units are not good enough.

And we thought by putting some of these funds here, we could actually make a meaningful difference in neighborhoods that are absolutely the worst in this town. And people need to know that it's hard to appropriate these dollars on a local level. The capital committee, I mean, it's really hard to get a project through.

And the $300,000 for pedestrian safety in the capital, it's just a drop in the bucket in terms of the true need that we have for pedestrian safety, for every intersection. I've said it so many times. Every intersection in this town has a slip lane that we need to tee up so that people that are walking through those crosswalks are not gonna have to worry that somebody's just gonna be distracted and drive right through it.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:06 - 3:30:13)
So if that's a priority, I don't know why we wouldn't have asked for 300,000 when we really needed 500,000.

[Speaker 4] (3:30:13 - 3:30:18)
But Daniel, that, Sean, just be very specific. This one was, because that's the one for 2024?

[Speaker 8] (3:30:19 - 3:30:22)
No, I'm looking at for 25 to 2029.

[Speaker 4] (3:30:22 - 3:30:23)
Okay, what are you looking at?

[Speaker 8] (3:30:24 - 3:30:24)
Line 10.

[Speaker 7] (3:30:25 - 3:30:26)
I mean, 24 was.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:26 - 3:30:27)
300,000 pedestrian.

[Speaker 7] (3:30:27 - 3:30:28)
24 was a million.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:29 - 3:30:34)
Traffic improvements, 300,000. That's to finish up what we did here around the school.

[Speaker 4] (3:30:35 - 3:30:35)
Yep, right.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:35 - 3:30:39)
For 25 to 29? I'm looking at FY25 to 29.

[Speaker 4] (3:30:39 - 3:30:40)
Yes.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:40 - 3:30:41)
That plan.

[Speaker 4] (3:30:41 - 3:31:03)
That is the finishing up of the school, the school around the new school that came in higher than the original bid. So that's why it actually, we're looking at a different part of it than we wanted, but we ended up doing that in Article 14 which is for this fiscal year where it came up just around the school. So that's what Sean is alluding to is that the additional funds are for.

Right, so that's my point.

[Speaker 8] (3:31:03 - 3:31:06)
Why didn't we then include what we needed in capital?

[Speaker 1] (3:31:07 - 3:31:57)
It's because we're looking at the bottom line. We're looking at debt service. Our debt service is jammed up right now.

We just built a $100 million elementary school. We have the largest debt that we've ever released. We're putting more debt in there by acquisition of open space because we're making generational investments that have been ignored for generations.

We're starting to really put funding in place for infrastructure. We're getting good at going after state and federal grants and all of these things are starting to come together. We've gone from double A minus in our bond rating to triple A.

We've managed kind of keeping Swampskate affordable. Five years in a row, we've leveled the town tax. We actually reduced Swampskate's tax.

Our average single family tax bill is less than Marblehead's. For decades, Marblehead's...

[Speaker 8] (3:31:57 - 3:31:58)
We know all that though, right?

[Speaker 1] (3:31:58 - 3:32:06)
I know, but the sense that somehow we're not... We're trying to... The reason why the capital plan doesn't have every project in...

[Speaker 8] (3:32:06 - 3:32:28)
And I'm not saying every project, but some of the major ones where you're talking $500,000 for pedestrian safety seems like a pretty reasonable capital improvement project, right? As opposed to ARPA funds, right? It just, to me, doesn't...

I mean, the ADA restroom at Phillips Beach, $350,000. That almost screams what you would put as a capital project. It is a capital project.

[Speaker 1] (3:32:29 - 3:32:30)
It's been in the capital plan for...

[Speaker 8] (3:32:30 - 3:32:31)
Okay, so why then is it here?

[Speaker 1] (3:32:31 - 3:32:35)
...four years and it's just, you know...

[Speaker 7] (3:32:35 - 3:33:07)
So why does it then show up here? It hasn't been in for four years. We do have, in the capital plan, we do have, I think it's $50,000 to do the planning phase on it, but I do think that some of the bigger issues are where it's located.

So I don't... Would it... I'm open to changing my motion to being $1.6 million for a shovel-ready fisherman's beach and then come back and address the rest of them with the additional $515,000.

[Speaker 4] (3:33:08 - 3:33:52)
I mean, I appreciate that level of compromise, Mary Ellen, but it's 10 o'clock at night. I think where Danielle's going is something we truly haven't done. We haven't actually gone through to really understand, all of us, what these projects are.

So if there's frustration, I think Katie mentioned earlier, like the last time we went through this, if there wasn't appreciation of the details, and now Danielle's here asking questions about what they are as well, and yet again we're kind of looking to just hurry up and do it.

[Speaker 8] (3:33:53 - 3:34:00)
Well, I've been asking for a couple of days, so to be quite honest, you know, and...

[Speaker 4] (3:34:00 - 3:34:01)
So I'm happy to...

[Speaker 8] (3:34:01 - 3:36:22)
And I've done a lot of digging, and I've gotten a lot of answers, you know, kind of by way of talking to different people, but my main point is $1.6 million to address what Dr. Friedman said just a moment ago is, to me, it's a must-do, right? We're talking about bacteria on beaches that can affect our residents as opposed to, no offense at all, preservation of the General Glover House. I'm sorry, but I think we're talking wants versus needs here in the most obvious way, and I agree that the way that Mary Ellen has, while I think it's wonderful the way she's tried to balance this, I think maybe some things can be done differently, and I do think resiliency, David, is definitely something we need to focus on.

We are a coastal community, albeit we know that there are more opportunities for state grants, right? So let's see what we can do in that respect, but I can't ignore the fact that I have had the opportunity to talk to so many people in this town in the past three months, and everybody says the same thing. It's the beaches and the bacteria, and I think that at the end of the day, we're here based on what the residents and taxpayers of this town want to see us do, and if we can't guarantee them safety at the beach and not getting bacteria or not getting E.

coli or whatever they could potentially get, I mean, I think that's our responsibility. That's our first responsibility. The rest of the stuff certainly is under our purview also, but that can kind of come afterwards, and we can see what we can give to each and every one.

I don't think any one of these are frivolous, right? But I think that after that $1.6 million, yeah, whatever is left, Amy, like $400,000-ish, how can we divvy it up between all of these partners and see what we can do? What exactly are we talking about, upgrades to parks?

Is there something we can do for $20,000 or $40,000? You know, actually seeing the scope of each one, right? Because that's when we'll know how much it will cost.

How can you, okay. Public health. I mean, just generally, what is that?

It's just public health?

[Speaker 1] (3:36:22 - 3:36:40)
No, we've given presentations. Our director of public health and our public health nurse have put together proposals that are pretty detailed about the impact of COVID and long COVID and mental health and a lot of...

[Speaker 8] (3:36:40 - 3:36:44)
I'm sure very helpful stuff. It would just be helpful to see each one and the cost.

[Speaker 1] (3:36:44 - 3:37:47)
We could actually roll up a whole presentation on each of these projects. I'll invite department heads and staff that have been advocates for a number of these projects to come to the next board meeting and we can all just have a conversation about what would make the most sense. I appreciate the fact that, look, everybody wants to help address public health with our beaches.

We're known for beautiful beaches. When I think about Fisherman's Beach, we've got the Marshall Street outfall. That's not the public beach side.

We do have an outfall there that has a great deal of I&I, but that's not where people are swimming. They're swimming on the other side and that side is actually relatively clean. We only had a couple of days where we had exceedances and we only had to post one day last year.

When we think about...

[Speaker 8] (3:37:47 - 3:37:51)
But is that because of how often we tested there? Does that have anything to do with it?

[Speaker 1] (3:37:51 - 3:38:12)
The frequency, generally... If you test it every day, you're going to have a greater level of confidence. We're going to start testing it every day this summer.

My guess is we're going to see the swimming side of Fisherman's Beach is going to be relatively safe and we're not going to see significant...

[Speaker 8] (3:38:12 - 3:38:16)
What is the point of having a shovel-ready project? Why do we need that?

[Speaker 1] (3:38:16 - 3:39:16)
Because it's just part of what we have to do. Fixing pipes under the clean... We're an MS4 regulated community under the federal law.

We have to fix our pipes just like we have to pave the roads. It's a status of good repair. I think there are a lot of folks that think that somehow if we drop a couple million dollars in here, it's going to make a meaningful difference in terms of affecting the quality of water where people are actually swimming, and it's not going to.

What it will do is it will fix some things, but there's no scientific data that says, oh, it's going to be 20% better, 50% better. Nobody knows. But what we do know, because we did the asset management report, is that we have a whole town that for literally decades just ignored, and our rates, our sewer rates, that's like the proof in the pudding because we compared Swanscot sewer rates to 40 other communities in MWRA, and literally we were among the lowest.

Marblehead's one of the highest.

[Speaker 8] (3:39:17 - 3:39:20)
By doing that, we sacrificed the condition of the pipes.

[Speaker 1] (3:39:20 - 3:40:35)
That's right, and so now there are folks out there that are like, well, we've got to keep the rates going up. And I'm like, well, we've done that for the last 50 years, and we've done it to the detriment of fixing the pipes and actually protecting our environmental resource areas. But, you know, we've got to get back to that status of good repair, and we have to just own that.

And I know that's frustrating because folks are like, well, you're going to increase those rates. And, you know, the truth is, you know, we've done everything but, you know, to subsidize those for decades. The real focus should be on how we protect the increase in the average single-family tax bill or the levy in the general fund.

So dumping everything into the capital and putting more stress on our debt service when we have some of the bigger capital investments that we have to make because we ignored the schools, like, that's going to make the budget even that much more complicated. And so this is a complicated conversation. I'm not looking to avoid it, but I do think we probably need a little time to, you know, present some of this data and really look at this in a way that helps us make data-driven decisions.

[Speaker 3] (3:40:36 - 3:43:13)
I would just like to say that for me, whatever 20%, 10%, 0% of effectiveness of clean water on the beach that comes from replacing the pipes is a happy consequence from the work that we have to do to the pipes to put them in a state of good repair, which we know is going to have to be done on the backs of taxpayers. We know that. It's not this year, it's next year and the next year and the next 10 years.

And so to me, spending the ARPA funds, I've already said this, but spending the ARPA funds on the pipes is not directly correlated to saving the beach. It's directly correlated to saving our taxpayers. And that's what's important to me is I know that next year I won't have this tool in my toolbox.

I know we won't be able to do that. And I know the strain on our budget will be even greater. And so, I mean, this is a luxury we have this year.

And I'm not saying that all these things are not valuable. When we talked about the school, it's not an us versus them. It's not that all of these things don't have merit.

It's just that to me, of the utmost importance in this conversation is what's the ROI to taxpayers on all of these projects? So I'm happy to have conversations about all of these things going forward and what the return on investment is to our taxpayers, to their pocketbooks, and to maybe future pocketbooks, because I think a lot of these have very forward-thinking strategies, and they're necessary. And we should have those conversations on why they're necessary and how we don't want any of these projects to become the next pipes, right?

I understand that. But I also understand that you are asking, that we are asking for increases on an average family tax bill to go up multiple ways this year and then potentially multiple ways next year. And there is no other way that we have to help ourselves right now, no other tools in our toolbox to help ourselves.

So, I mean, I think it's really important that we listen to the taxpayer who's saying, inflation, the rising costs of things that, outside of what we have any control over. I don't have control over any of that, but we all feel it. So what do I have control over?

Okay, I have control over this, and I have control over it now. And I just think it's extremely important that we're listening to taxpayers who are saying, it's a real concern, it's a strain that we are going to feel for 10 years, and if you could make it nine years, that would be fantastic.

[Speaker 4] (3:43:14 - 3:44:08)
I hear that. And we had this vote with these priorities, and we had a town meeting where people saw the place. We have a whole plan for how we're going to fix the pipes.

Town meeting voted overwhelmingly, can't say unanimously because I couldn't see behind me, to do $3.5 million for the pipes, just as we had planned. The discussion we all voted on. We all approved here at this meeting, at town meeting, all raised their hand, $3.5 million in debt to the sewer enterprise fund to fix the pipes. Completely on plan, right?

[Speaker 3] (3:44:08 - 3:44:19)
The logic is circular, because the same logic you're using against Mary Ellen's point earlier about I didn't put this in capital because it was in ARPA is the same reason town meeting voted this into capital because it wasn't in ARPA.

[Speaker 4] (3:44:20 - 3:44:34)
But they knew. We voted, basically everybody, not a peep about, there was no outcry about this is going to affect my taxes. Not one person brought that up there.

[Speaker 8] (3:44:36 - 3:44:38)
You mean at town meeting? At town meeting. At town meeting?

[Speaker 4] (3:44:38 - 3:44:38)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (3:44:39 - 3:44:40)
Did they have the option to do that?

[Speaker 4] (3:44:40 - 3:44:43)
Absolutely. Anyone could have commented on this item.

[Speaker 8] (3:44:43 - 3:44:48)
Well, I think people commented on some capital projects. The basement was a concern, Danielle's trailer.

[Speaker 7] (3:44:48 - 3:45:31)
I think there's been a large number of people who've come in front of us over the last several months requesting over and over that we put ARPA money into our infrastructure and into our sewer rehabilitation. We have listened to it nonstop. And I just can't move from this spot.

And I've gone from all of it down to now I'm at 1.6. And I really feel like it is a need. And we also have money in there that is going to continue to be a need. And we are just going to have to keep hitting these sewers in our infrastructure.

We have the EPA hammering at us.

[Speaker 21] (3:45:32 - 3:45:36)
Yeah, and we have kids with significant mental health issues too.

[Speaker 7] (3:45:36 - 3:45:38)
I'm all for that too.

[Speaker 21] (3:45:38 - 3:45:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:45:38 - 3:45:53)
I'm all for that. So come back and we can discuss the other half a million plus money that's in here. But right now, you know, I have a motion on the table for 1.6 for the Fisherman's Shovel Ready Project.

[Speaker 4] (3:45:55 - 3:45:59)
Which is already funded through capital. Yeah, it's funded.

[Speaker 5] (3:45:59 - 3:46:03)
And then if we're going to look at these other... It literally says that, Mary Ellen.

[Speaker 4] (3:46:03 - 3:46:15)
Hold on, hold on. It literally says that, that what we approve, town meeting approved doing that project with capital. But you say you're not going to take that money out of capital.

[Speaker 7] (3:46:15 - 3:46:38)
That money is not coming out of capital, Doug. If we use 1.6, it doesn't go anywhere. We use 1.6 of offer money. And then when we're finished with the offer money and we're ready to tap into more money, we can tap into more money. We have the ability. We can actually, believe it or not, we can actually use that money even in different areas in town as long as it's a like...

[Speaker 27] (3:46:38 - 3:46:39)
$1.7 million.

[Speaker 7] (3:46:39 - 3:46:52)
If you could let me finish what I'm saying. As long as it's a like-minded project, we can continue to use all of those dollars into our sewer infrastructure. That money is not going away.

It's been voted on, and we're going to be able to use it when we want to use it.

[Speaker 4] (3:46:52 - 3:46:55)
So we're going to do 3.3 for fishermen's now?

[Speaker 7] (3:46:56 - 3:47:06)
We can... Well, let's hope it doesn't get that high. But maybe we do.

If you saw those pictures, you might... Maybe it is going to be that high. I really don't know.

We have a shovel-ready project.

[Speaker 5] (3:47:06 - 3:48:12)
We do have a shovel-ready project. But, you know, there's also been some misinformation about, you know, the water quality and water conditions at Fisherman's Beach. I mean, that's been spread.

You know, I... Katie and I were part of a testing regimen a few weeks ago with our families and Dr. Chris Vockley. So thank you.

You know, we have those testing machines. We did test water from directly inside of the pipes. And, you know, there was a...

It lit up like a Christmas tree, certainly. There was water from the stream that led from the pipe to the, you know, to the water. And there was some, you know, there was some...

What is it? Bioluminescence? Something like that.

And then there was water that was tested as we test, you know, the water 3 feet, you know, in the water. And that water was generally below acceptable levels as, you know, as we've seen. So...

[Speaker 3] (3:48:12 - 3:48:13)
At Fisherman's.

[Speaker 5] (3:48:13 - 3:48:15)
At Fisherman's Beach. Yes, at Fisherman's.

[Speaker 7] (3:48:16 - 3:48:22)
We have a shovel-ready project that... What's the name of our engineering consultant?

[Speaker 10] (3:48:22 - 3:48:23)
Kleinfelder.

[Speaker 7] (3:48:23 - 3:48:49)
Kleinfelder. Kleinfelder has drawn it out. They've put photographs.

I showed those photographs in November. They are saying this is imperative that you fix this. We have the EPA screaming about this.

So I'm not even talking about bacteria on the beach. I'm talking about the infrastructure and how important it is. And that's why I'm trying to push that we add this 1.6 in there.

[Speaker 4] (3:48:50 - 3:48:55)
So... But we have the money to pay for that already. The town meeting disapproved that.

Yes.

[Speaker 5] (3:48:55 - 3:49:15)
And a lot of these other projects that if funded through our capital plan will result in us having to bond at a much higher rate than if we were to do this through an SRF. The SRF is at 2%. For instance...

[Speaker 7] (3:49:15 - 3:49:26)
We can't get to... You know that we can't get to that SRF for about another year. So we're in a tough position getting to the SRF.

The SRF has deadlines.

[Speaker 5] (3:49:26 - 3:49:26)
For one year.

[Speaker 7] (3:49:27 - 3:49:51)
So I don't think we can get into SRF until 2025. So this would actually carry us getting through it. And then hopefully we get into the SRF program again.

We were in the program. We turned around and said, no, we're not going to take the loan. We can pull those interest rates at a different date.

But I think we've all said what we're going to say.

[Speaker 4] (3:49:51 - 3:49:53)
I have a motion. You can't speak for me now.

[Speaker 7] (3:49:53 - 3:50:01)
All right, I'm sorry. All right, we can keep going. I'm just saying I do have a motion on the floor.

But, you know, go ahead.

[Speaker 4] (3:50:01 - 3:51:01)
Okay, well, so we're going to go back over this then. Because I don't quite... You keep saying we have a shovel road project.

We do have a shovel road project. That's why we did all of town meeting, basically unanimously, said absolutely $1.8 million for Kings, $1.7 million through the sewer enterprise fund, through debt for Fisherman's Beach. And by the time July 1st comes around, when this money will be ready, Kleinfeld will be ready with...

Because it's shovel ready, but they still had to do some tinkering, right? We talked about that in the past. So we have the money for that.

That money will last us until the SRF comes. Yes, it's the same conversation we had before. So there's no gap in our ability to get going right away and to carry ourselves through to the SRF, where we get the lowest interest rate.

So let's just put that aside.

[Speaker 7] (3:51:01 - 3:51:10)
No, so here's my question. We have that money... So you're saying, listen, we have that money available, and we'll put that money right into an SRF.

[Speaker 4] (3:51:10 - 3:51:10)
No.

[Speaker 7] (3:51:11 - 3:51:13)
Okay, so you're saying we're going to borrow that money at a higher rate.

[Speaker 4] (3:51:13 - 3:51:14)
Yeah, that's...

[Speaker 7] (3:51:14 - 3:51:19)
And I'm saying we use this money right now. And we don't have any debt whatsoever.

[Speaker 4] (3:51:19 - 3:51:20)
And then you don't have any of this.

[Speaker 12] (3:51:20 - 3:51:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (3:51:20 - 3:51:21)
We don't have any debt.

[Speaker 4] (3:51:21 - 3:51:27)
Yes, we do have some of this. You still have some of it. You have a much, much, much diminished amount of this.

[Speaker 8] (3:51:27 - 3:51:33)
And maybe that's a good thing, though, because, again, we haven't really identified what $100,000 is for each of these things.

[Speaker 4] (3:51:33 - 3:51:44)
And that's what we should talk about, because it's easy to sit here and say that, oh, my goodness, the beaches are the biggest public health issue that we have, and people are going to help.

[Speaker 3] (3:51:44 - 3:51:47)
I didn't say that, though. I'm talking about taxpayer money.

[Speaker 4] (3:51:48 - 3:52:54)
That's fine. You could talk about taxpayer money. That's fine.

That's true. There's no doubt about it. If you take this and put it over there, then at some point, not right now, because we have that money, at some point in the future, you're going to be spending this instead of doing these things.

Because you can't have it both ways, right? You can't say, well, we're going to do these things through capital some other time, and we're going to use this for the pipes. Well, then it's just kind of mixing and matching, and it's basically you're still going to...

Your impact's going to be the same thing. So if you're going to reduce all these things, fair enough. You are going to be reducing by $10 to $20 a household the impact on the sewer enterprise fund.

That's really what we're talking about. Just so everyone understands what we're talking about here, we're not talking about hundreds or thousands of dollars that the impact... The big impact we're talking about here for people is like $10 to $20 per quarter on their sewer bill.

Right. That's the impact. Just to make sure we've got, you know, not like people are wondering what we're talking about.

[Speaker 3] (3:52:54 - 3:52:55)
For some people, that's groceries.

[Speaker 4] (3:52:56 - 3:53:00)
Absolutely. That's real money. I didn't say it was a lot or a little.

I said that's what we're talking about.

[Speaker 3] (3:53:00 - 3:53:02)
I know, but I feel like... It's a specific amount, right? Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:53:03 - 3:53:04)
But it sounds like we're minimizing it.

[Speaker 3] (3:53:04 - 3:53:06)
Yeah, that's the part that I want to caution about.

[Speaker 8] (3:53:07 - 3:53:15)
That might not be anything to some of us, but I think we just heard from a resident who told us on a fixed income any increase is painful.

[Speaker 4] (3:53:16 - 3:53:16)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 8] (3:53:16 - 3:53:22)
And when 30% of this town is made up of people in similar situations, we can't just ignore it.

[Speaker 4] (3:53:22 - 3:54:12)
Yep. And then there is a requisite side to, if you want to go through every single one of these other things, there are real human impacts today for every one of these things too. So there's no doubt that there's a public health impact, there's a restriction of recreation impact for not doing the sewers as well as just taking care of our sewers.

But we should go through and people should understand what it means to continually have people living in substandard public housing as well without any air conditioning, without them being ADA accessible, without all of the basic living conditions, people living there every single moment of their life, right? Not when they wish to go to one beach versus the other beaches we have.

[Speaker 8] (3:54:12 - 3:54:15)
I don't agree with that, but...

[Speaker 4] (3:54:15 - 3:54:17)
Okay, well, this is, you know...

[Speaker 8] (3:54:17 - 3:54:25)
I don't agree with that. We're not saying that we're not concerned about those people. Mary Ellen just said, 50,000 plus 50,000 from the housing trust equals 100,000 you have there.

[Speaker 4] (3:54:25 - 3:54:30)
But we don't have the authority to decide what the housing trust is gonna do. So this is the point of actually having...

[Speaker 3] (3:54:30 - 3:54:35)
But if it's so critically important... They're gonna be more than happy to do it. Then I think they'd be more than happy to do it.

[Speaker 4] (3:54:36 - 3:54:38)
Let's have a conversation about that.

[Speaker 3] (3:54:38 - 3:54:38)
Of course.

[Speaker 8] (3:54:39 - 3:54:41)
Let's have a conversation about that 400,000.

[Speaker 4] (3:54:43 - 3:54:45)
And how much does it cost?

[Speaker 8] (3:54:45 - 3:54:46)
We should have. 500,000.

[Speaker 4] (3:54:47 - 3:54:52)
Let's... What is the cost? And we already signed a contract.

I don't even know exactly where that stands.

[Speaker 5] (3:54:52 - 3:55:07)
We're also talking about, you know, sewer rates. But, you know, what are the costs from an insurance perspective, from a flood insurance perspective, for not investing in these resiliency projects? What's the cost?

[Speaker 8] (3:55:07 - 3:55:09)
We could have Tara Driscoll here and tell us.

[Speaker 5] (3:55:09 - 3:55:15)
I think that cost is considerable. I think that cost is in excess of...

[Speaker 7] (3:55:15 - 3:55:21)
We're gonna have... We have... We have...

We have to have flood insurance. We have to have flood insurance, coastal flood insurance, no matter what.

[Speaker 5] (3:55:21 - 3:55:38)
Understood. But you also have potential for... There's property and liability as well, which we're now...

The premiums have increased, according to one gentleman who's talked at our... You know, at meetings a number of times. I believe the costs have gone up 20 or 30%.

[Speaker 8] (3:55:38 - 3:55:39)
Yeah, definitely have.

[Speaker 5] (3:55:39 - 3:55:50)
Now, is there anything that we can do to help mitigate that? Is there anything that we can do to invest in resiliency projects that can help to mitigate those double-digit increases?

[Speaker 8] (3:55:52 - 3:56:00)
So maybe that's a great point. I agree with you entirely, because I think that resiliency is going to come into play in a big way in a not-so-distant future.

[Speaker 5] (3:56:00 - 3:56:25)
It should have been in play decades ago, but, you know, we're behind. We're behind, like we are with a number of these things. And infrastructure, critical infrastructure, includes resilient infrastructure, includes that, you know, that potential for breakwaters, et cetera.

It's not just our school buildings. It's not just our subterranean sewers. There are other...

[Speaker 4] (3:56:26 - 3:57:14)
As a reminder for people, the $200,000, to your question earlier, that's not on a thin air either. This is specifically the grant that we approved that we're applying for right now. So on one hand, if we get the grant, then we will need a fraction of this.

It'll be our kind of town share, which I forget what the number is off the top of my head, $40,000 or something like that. But if we don't get the grant, that's why the money's here. And when we had the conversation before, and I wanted to put it in capital, and we said, oh, no, no, actually we're going to do it through ARPA.

It's like, okay, that's fine. It's covered then. But if we take it out now, and we don't get the grant, then we're sitting with nothing, and we're nothing for a year.

So...

[Speaker 8] (3:57:14 - 3:57:31)
So maybe that means we don't do the general deliver. Maybe at some point, something has to take priority. And that's the hardest decision you're ever going to make, anybody up here, is to pick and choose, but that is the reality of what...

There has to be some type of priority on what gets done first.

[Speaker 4] (3:57:32 - 3:57:45)
Right, so I would suggest that we include the $200,000 for now, but that if we get the grant, then it can go to the pipes. The money can go to the pipes, yeah. So that's kind of a different way to kind of split the basis.

[Speaker 3] (3:57:46 - 3:57:52)
Well, to Danielle's point, if we get the $200,000, why can't that money go to the Glover? Right.

[Speaker 4] (3:57:52 - 3:57:59)
Well, I'm just being friendly about it in terms of, like, you know, you wanted it to go to the pipes, so...

[Speaker 8] (3:58:00 - 3:58:28)
I think we have to keep in mind, too, that what we might all perceive is what the priority is. We have to listen to them, right? And as much as we can, that has to drive what we do, as opposed to what we individually might think is...

You know, David and I think resiliency is a big thing. You know, Mary Ellen... Doug does.

Okay, so, you know, I think the Townwide Economic Development Study is, for $100,000, seems frivolous to me. Just going to put that out there. I'm sure there's a reason why it's not.

[Speaker 1] (3:58:28 - 3:58:28)
There is.

[Speaker 8] (3:58:29 - 3:59:15)
Just like I think that, you know, $100,000 for the Glover right now is not something we can afford. So, everyone's going to think differently. I think we have to keep in mind what the taxpayer and the residents want.

And I have heard, personally, time and time again, from people like Mrs. DiPietro. That's all that I can speak to, because that's what, predominantly, I have heard, right? I don't have people banging down my door telling me we need to, you know, devote $400,000 to the parks.

I don't. I do think we need some work in the parks, for sure. Right?

You know, to that letter that we got from Mr. Pica. Right? Very valid concerns.

Little did I know that in FY24, we had allocated that money, and it just never got purposed for the Phillips soccer field. Right? So, you know, it's a process.

[Speaker 7] (3:59:16 - 3:59:16)
It's a process.

[Speaker 8] (3:59:16 - 3:59:17)
It's a process. It has a...

[Speaker 1] (3:59:17 - 3:59:22)
I think there's a little concern that, you know, we actually just need a little more money.

[Speaker 7] (3:59:23 - 3:59:23)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:59:23 - 3:59:33)
And, you know, that field is in need of total resurfacing. Right. We've got to dig it up, put, you know, a whole new subsurface down.

[Speaker 8] (3:59:34 - 3:59:46)
But every single situation will probably have a million, you know, things like that that need to be done differently, or we need more, or we need this or that. I think it just... You know, we just...

We have to prioritize what the people are asking us to do.

[Speaker 4] (3:59:47 - 3:59:49)
Right. Can I ask any other questions? Just to reflect that on the people.

[Speaker 8] (3:59:50 - 3:59:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:59:50 - 4:00:11)
You know, we have one person here for the Glover. Another for the sewers and lowering rates. Yep.

Another for resiliency. Yep. Another one for, you know, for Kim for the housing money.

Arthur for the sewers. Ryan for the process. Al for keep it as is.

You know, so, I mean, if you look at that...

[Speaker 8] (4:00:11 - 4:00:18)
So that takes off Townwide Development Study. That takes off Public Health. And that takes off ADA Restroom and Pedestrian Safety.

[Speaker 4] (4:00:18 - 4:00:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (4:00:19 - 4:00:21)
So if that's how you want to do it, then we do it that way.

[Speaker 5] (4:00:21 - 4:00:22)
But that's... But you can't, right?

[Speaker 8] (4:00:22 - 4:00:25)
No, you can't. Yeah. You're select citizens.

[Speaker 1] (4:00:25 - 4:00:28)
Can I ask... You're here to represent the entire town.

[Speaker 8] (4:00:28 - 4:00:29)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (4:00:29 - 4:00:34)
Exactly. You're not gonna... People aren't...

Like, it becomes a popular vote for every decision.

[Speaker 16] (4:00:35 - 4:00:36)
Of course. You have advocates everywhere.

[Speaker 1] (4:00:37 - 4:00:40)
You can put 200 people in this room that might have the wrong idea.

[Speaker 16] (4:00:40 - 4:00:41)
200 different ideas.

[Speaker 1] (4:00:41 - 4:00:56)
It just... Like, you're entrusted to actually make the best decisions that you believe at this moment in time that you can make. I don't think any of you are actually in bad faith here.

I think you're just trying to do your best to, you know...

[Speaker 23] (4:00:56 - 4:00:56)
Nobody's in bad faith.

[Speaker 1] (4:00:56 - 4:01:10)
...figure it all out. Every one of these priorities is a priority. It is.

They're all really important. And we could all get on a soapbox for hours and talk about how each one of these are really important. Economic development is important because we're trying to keep the town affordable.

[Speaker 21] (4:01:11 - 4:01:11)
Of course.

[Speaker 1] (4:01:11 - 4:01:39)
And, you know, if you look at Vinden Square, that needs a facelift and it needed it 40 years ago. And so there's lots of reasons why things just stay the same. And it's because we don't invest in some of these key priorities.

That said, I really do... I... I believe that there's probably consensus here.

I believe that we could get to consensus on something. Um...

[Speaker 4] (4:01:39 - 4:01:41)
But I... It's getting late. And...

[Speaker 3] (4:01:41 - 4:01:49)
Can I ask Amy a question? Yeah. Please.

Amy. Could we spend... Hi.

Could we spend money on a school bus?

[Speaker 17] (4:01:50 - 4:02:19)
You cannot. Um... I also want to be careful because some of the ideas that are being thrown out are also not eligible uses.

Great. Tell us about it. Um...

And I... And I also want to be very careful because the board only has until December 31st of this calendar year to authorize something. So if you authorize something for, say, $200,000 and it only ends up being $120,000, $80,000 of that gets given back.

[Speaker 27] (4:02:19 - 4:02:19)
Okay.

[Speaker 17] (4:02:19 - 4:02:30)
So we only have seven months and everything has to be completed or substantially completed to a standard of 85% or more by December 31st, 2026. Yep.

[Speaker 8] (4:02:30 - 4:02:34)
Okay. Yep. That's a good point, Amy.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[Speaker 4] (4:02:34 - 4:02:38)
So one other thing I'd like to... I just have a follow-up question for Amy. Oh.

[Speaker 3] (4:02:39 - 4:02:57)
I'm sorry. So Amy, just to be clear then about the suggestion that was made about potentially with the grant money, um... if we got the grant to reallocate it.

It... It all lives in our bucket until December 31st 2024. Correct?

[Speaker 17] (4:02:58 - 4:03:05)
Yes. You can re-vote... So we can re-vote whatever's left of it.

7,000 times before that.

[Speaker 3] (4:03:05 - 4:03:15)
Okay. So what you're saying does not preclude us from what we were talking about with regards to the grant. We will know by then...

Okay. So we will know by that the answer to the grant. Okay.

Great.

[Speaker 4] (4:03:16 - 4:04:23)
The other one I'd like to make at least a modest adjustment to since there have been kind of preparations for and... actually just as a... note of humor and lightness, Neil Duffy actually did his master's thesis on the ROI for having a resiliency manager.

I won't bring it out and quote it, but he did provide it to me. So it's pretty standard like 3 to 1 ROI for getting these resiliency managers because they can write grants basically. It brings in money.

So I mean while certainly I would be much appreciated bringing it back up to 100,000 and then us refining that over the next couple months to make sure we know exactly what's really needed. At a minimum I know very clearly that there's that good ROI on it to the point about things being sensible in that manner as well. So at least 50.

If we could do the 100, that would be much appreciated.

[Speaker 7] (4:04:24 - 4:04:29)
Based on you being able to show an ROI on it I would definitely support that.

[Speaker 8] (4:04:30 - 4:04:34)
And that I shouldn't have asked.

[Speaker 4] (4:04:34 - 4:04:37)
I should have just said 100. How about 75?

[Speaker 8] (4:04:38 - 4:04:44)
So tell me Doug so that is is that the cost of the position or that is the cost of the consultant?

[Speaker 4] (4:04:44 - 4:05:41)
It has to be a consultant because it's through ARPA. The idea would be that they would there's two prongs very briefly to this. One would be half of it really wholeheartedly about grants because there are grants out there.

There's money coming into the state. You know basically you just need to be ready, willing, and able to react. And then the other piece is that with a volunteer crew there's a lot of like operationalizing this.

I mean we have Max who does a great job with like the municipal building side but really most of our emissions come from all of us. Right? And so project managing like really how are we going to get to everyone having heat pumps or solar or whatever it is is another kind of action step and kind of arms and legs that you need to make this happen.

So the initial thinking conversations that have been happening over the last month or so is you know roughly it's going to be roughly $50,000 per grant $50,000 for this arms and legs thing.

[Speaker 8] (4:05:42 - 4:05:44)
Okay. That makes sense to me.

[Speaker 4] (4:05:52 - 4:06:09)
I will just note not that it's like any personal thing for me but I was made aware that the ADA restrooms at Phyllis Beach isn't kind of to me it was a little bit out of thin air but I'm made aware it's like mentioned several times in the master plan actually. I'm sure it's a legal issue also.

[Speaker 8] (4:06:09 - 4:06:11)
Potentially a liability for us to not.

[Speaker 4] (4:06:11 - 4:06:20)
Yeah. I mean certainly it prohibits you know certain people from using the beach and all that but I just sharing any pieces back to it. Okay.

[Speaker 7] (4:06:25 - 4:06:31)
So what does it look like? So you change the climate action manager to $50,000?

[Speaker 5] (4:06:33 - 4:06:34)
$80,000?

[Speaker 20] (4:06:34 - 4:06:35)
I put $100,000.

[Speaker 8] (4:06:36 - 4:06:42)
So take the $75,000 from the school curriculum and put that for the climate resiliency manager. Is that a fair swap?

[Speaker 7] (4:06:43 - 4:06:50)
No. We were putting $75,000 into mental health so that we could have something that we could pull in with the schools.

[Speaker 3] (4:06:50 - 4:06:53)
Yeah but I also would like to understand the opioid money here.

[Speaker 8] (4:06:53 - 4:06:58)
What is the real likelihood of that happening? Well, you know what?

[Speaker 7] (4:06:59 - 4:07:24)
I want to you know if this if what we heard at town meeting that there's a possibility of some classes being cut that had to do with mental health and that we have a line item here that has to do with health you know I am leaning more towards what Sean is saying and trying to work collaboratively with the schools. Totally.

[Speaker 8] (4:07:24 - 4:07:36)
I just want to be sure that it happens. That what we are intending that money to go towards that is what actually happens. Do we have any guarantee that that could happen?

Or do we just do it in good faith?

[Speaker 7] (4:07:37 - 4:07:40)
I think we could put together a plan and work with Pam.

[Speaker 1] (4:07:41 - 4:07:51)
enormous confidence in our public health nurse and the health department to really advance a number of programs that could help.

[Speaker 17] (4:07:54 - 4:08:16)
If I can jump in. Nia and I met yesterday our public health nurse and one of her proposals was for mental health and I believe it was on one of the slides I shared with the board probably way back when. So that was already a priority of public health so that could not be a concern.

That is how the board votes to use that.

[Speaker 8] (4:08:17 - 4:08:24)
Was it for the students like for kids in school or adults? They had it for both adults and students.

[Speaker 3] (4:08:25 - 4:08:46)
Addressing mental health challenges that have arisen since the pandemic examples trauma, loss, grief, burnout, having a direct impact on residents and focusing on one of the most important elements of human health. That was the original and that was 121.555 which was the original ask.

[Speaker 7] (4:08:48 - 4:08:50)
Amy, are parks eligible?

[Speaker 17] (4:08:52 - 4:09:03)
Parks are not eligible. We do not fit the socioeconomic data for that. That was something I had Margie look into at the beginning of ARFA.

[Speaker 8] (4:09:04 - 4:09:16)
This 400,000 upgrade to town parks is not even applicable? That is where I get frustrated. That is when I say monopoly money.

That is something we should know when we are putting it out here.

[Speaker 7] (4:09:17 - 4:09:21)
On my proposal, we don't have it in there. We had 50,000. We will just take it out.

[Speaker 4] (4:09:23 - 4:09:29)
That is frustrating. You probably heard me say yes. We put a ton of money in there.

[Speaker 7] (4:09:29 - 4:09:29)
Exactly.

[Speaker 3] (4:09:34 - 4:09:41)
We have more money to spend, you guys. Even if we funded 1.6 to fishermen.

[Speaker 4] (4:09:43 - 4:09:47)
I will take that 50,000 from Mary Ellen and have the parks.

[Speaker 7] (4:09:49 - 4:09:51)
You are already at 75.

[Speaker 3] (4:09:57 - 4:10:17)
Can we talk about the $200,000 resiliency project then? If it is meant to be helping fund a grant, and if the grant comes around and we don't have funding for it on the table for the match, we lose the grant. What is the match?

[Speaker 4] (4:10:23 - 4:10:42)
Is it even 20? I think it might be less. The safe would be 40.

40,000. I just want to caution. I just want to make sure we are eyes wide open.

[Speaker 3] (4:10:42 - 4:10:47)
If we don't get the grant, we have to reallocate before the end of the year.

[Speaker 4] (4:10:48 - 4:10:50)
We don't do anything.

[Speaker 3] (4:10:51 - 4:10:55)
We figure out another way to pay for it. Put it into capital.

[Speaker 4] (4:11:00 - 4:11:56)
Just to be clear. Because there has been a lot of discussion amongst a lot of different chairs. It doesn't mean it can't be changed.

There has been a lot of discussion with Marcy, CIC, harbor and water, climate action. I don't know. Every other green tree.

A lot of the conversations we had here was we have to do this. We have to start planning. We have to start moving.

We seem to have some mojo going with coastal zone management. I don't know. We'll see.

I just hate to be like we have the proposal and all this lined up and then put it on hold for you.

[Speaker 7] (4:11:56 - 4:12:02)
They don't give you a grant. When does that information come back?

[Speaker 4] (4:12:02 - 4:12:20)
When we would know? There's two different grants. Vulnerability that we've already put in and coastal zone management that hasn't been released yet, won't be due for six weeks.

We would know both of these by August or September.

[Speaker 7] (4:12:21 - 4:12:30)
In the 40,000 we'll cover that. In the event we didn't get those grants, what are the projects? Do we have projects lined up that we wanted to do?

[Speaker 4] (4:12:30 - 4:12:36)
The project, yes, it's the $200,000. That is the total. The total for the grant.

[Speaker 8] (4:12:36 - 4:12:39)
That's the grant total.

[Speaker 4] (4:12:39 - 4:12:43)
This is the very detailed, super detailed, are we doing a living rate?

[Speaker 8] (4:12:43 - 4:12:49)
A number of projects encumbered in that. Hold on, I'm a little confused here.

[Speaker 7] (4:12:50 - 4:13:03)
We would have to do a match of about 40,000 if we were to get these grants. If we don't get the grant, then we have to do the projects ourselves. $200,000 is not going to cover a living rate.

[Speaker 4] (4:13:06 - 4:13:16)
More studies. More studies. This is super technical detailed work about wave action.

[Speaker 18] (4:13:16 - 4:13:20)
We'll never get a reef without a study. That's absolutely not true.

[Speaker 4] (4:13:24 - 4:13:40)
My request is that we keep the $200,000 for now, hope, pray, whatever you want to do, that we get one of the grants and all we really need is 40. Then 160 gets released to the pipes.

[Speaker 3] (4:13:42 - 4:13:59)
You have to release to the pipes. Hold on one second. So if we wrote it out, I wish you had your little expo situation.

Here he goes.

[Speaker 27] (4:14:00 - 4:14:01)
I didn't invite you.

[Speaker 3] (4:14:02 - 4:14:21)
I opened the door. Okay. So 50 for affordable housing.

60 for the economic development study. 75 for the resilience study. Economic development study.

[Speaker 17] (4:14:22 - 4:14:23)
I'm doing the math for you guys on here.

[Speaker 3] (4:14:24 - 4:14:45)
Okay. 75 for the climate action manager. Okay.

You want to earmark 200 for the resiliency project with the hopes that potentially 160 of that is coming back to us. Okay. So let's make, yeah.

[Speaker 8] (4:14:46 - 4:14:50)
Well, potentially more if the resiliency manager does their job, right? I'm just saying.

[Speaker 3] (4:14:50 - 4:15:48)
Well, that's specifically a matching grant situation. So the very least of that money, if we get the grants, we will spend approximately $40,000. Okay.

So then $50,000 for IDDE at Fisherman's. $125. $121, We're just going to go with the ask.

$121, 555 was the amount that the health department asked for. So $122, say. Okay.

That's public health. 50 for the Glover. I know we're over the dollar amount, just so everybody knows.

I just want to put it on there. 50 for the Glover. Okay.

What's that total? Amy, what's that total?

[Speaker 17] (4:15:49 - 4:16:01)
You're totaling $2,207,000, which is $85,445 over.

[Speaker 3] (4:16:01 - 4:16:02)
What did you say? No.

[Speaker 17] (4:16:03 - 4:16:04)
$2,200.

[Speaker 3] (4:16:06 - 4:16:23)
It's Plus 1.6, right? Oh, I was doing the plus 1.6. I want to leave the 1.6 outside for now, Amy. So $607,000.

[Speaker 27] (4:16:23 - 4:16:23)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (4:16:23 - 4:16:29)
Subtract $607,000 from the total dollar amount that we have right 2, 1, 2.

[Speaker 5] (4:16:29 - 4:16:31)
1, 5, 1, 4, 5, 5.

[Speaker 3] (4:16:31 - 4:16:39)
1, 5, 1, 4, 5, 5. Look how close we are.

[Speaker 7] (4:16:40 - 4:16:41)
All right. Do you want me to redo my motion now?

[Speaker 8] (4:16:41 - 4:16:44)
Okay. $100,000. Is that what it is?

I can't see.

[Speaker 3] (4:16:45 - 4:16:46)
What was it, David?

[Speaker 5] (4:16:46 - 4:16:49)
1, 5, 1, 1, 5, 1, 4, 5, 5, 5.

[Speaker 3] (4:16:49 - 4:17:42)
5, 5, 5. Okay. right.

We're literally going to $100,000, the majority of which is going to sewers. There is a compromise to be had. now you can say the and if we get the resiliency money, that $600,000 to go back to sewers, that would give you $100,000.

There we go. We're there. If the resiliency grant funding goes through, we don't have to talk about it now.

If the grant gets issued, there's an additional $160,000 which you said, send it to the pipes. Maybe we leave that on the pipe.

[Speaker 13] (4:18:08 - 4:18:09)
Maybe leave that on the on the there.

[Speaker 8] (4:18:10 - 4:18:27)
think Maybe I would just say just just as a thought just to mr. Peek his point about Little League and the money that they were allocated in FY 24 it was 150,000

[Speaker 3] (4:18:27 - 4:18:33)
and they think it's gonna be more should we do we know we can't allocate money to

[Speaker 1] (4:18:33 - 4:18:58)
put look I'm gonna talk to this with I'm not gonna talk about the use of opera dolls for parks with Amy there there is language out there that you know I looked at that you know for parks that are used more frequently during the pandemic the Treasury has released some additional language not just for census tracts there's some other language out there and frankly I just you know those

[Speaker 8] (4:18:58 - 4:19:02)
fields are really not a park yeah really there's not a honestly aside from you

[Speaker 1] (4:19:02 - 4:19:08)
know a couple of fields in Swampskate they all need work and we need fences we

[Speaker 3] (4:19:11 - 4:19:23)
need maybe we can allocate that to parks right if that's available to us come end of the year pre end of year he doesn't have a heart attack so the good

[Speaker 1] (4:19:23 - 4:19:40)
news is July 1st you've got some capital money too and again I'm not I don't want to I think some of these dollars can go to pipes but you know you we've got so many buckets that people need Amy do any of these offend the ARPA

[Speaker 17] (4:19:40 - 4:19:57)
census I would need more information on what the Glover is going to be the rest of them are all eligible uses you know we already approved we already approved

[Speaker 8] (4:19:57 - 4:20:17)
money for the Glover I make a motion to amend Mary Ellen's motion to reflect

[Speaker 3] (4:20:17 - 4:20:51)
what's on the whiteboard right now and then Amy if we could deep dive to make sure that none of this is going to go outside of the ARPA usage guidelines for which we need gonna have to send it up yeah so that we could just understand obviously with enough time to have this conversation again if there's anything left on the table because the number one thing I do not want to happen is for any of this money to go anywhere but Swampscot we will find a way to spend it by the end of the year if we need a way to spend it I will second I will second

[Speaker 7] (4:20:51 - 4:21:00)
that amendment to my motion okay are we ready for a vote I'm yeah I don't I'm

[Speaker 5] (4:21:00 - 4:21:27)
done with discussion you know I'm grudgingly ready okay all in favor aye thank you all right we'll move on we'll move on to election of the select board

[Speaker 4] (4:21:44 - 4:22:19)
officers I'll make a motion to nominate Mary Ellen as chair and Katie as vice chair second all right all in favor or discussion all in favor aye thank you my congratulations and condolences I already know I didn't review the minutes so I'd like to pull those out

[Speaker 5] (4:22:19 - 4:22:36)
and delay those I'm sorry okay okay that's fine and then discussion possible vote to approve application for hawking and peddling for employees of morph management door-to-door sales for Verizon May 1st to December 31 I do have a quick question I don't know if somebody

[Speaker 3] (4:22:36 - 4:22:43)
from the town can answer how do what is required of these folks to identify themselves they

[Speaker 1] (4:22:43 - 4:22:56)
have to be fingerprinted down at the police department and no I'm sorry to oh as they're hockey players you know they have to have some type of identification okay I think they

[Speaker 3] (4:22:56 - 4:23:15)
have to work yeah I think if we could just make sure that that's happening I think I have seen a number of people sort of canvassing for different things maybe they don't have a permit and maybe that's how either that's maybe why they're not identifying themselves but for folks who are there purposefully and legally licensed to do so I think it would

[Speaker 8] (4:23:15 - 4:23:22)
be great if they did I will just say I hate this personally I just hate it I hate people

[Speaker 1] (4:23:22 - 4:24:06)
going door-to-door it's off-putting to me it's a I think it annoys people protected right I you know we have this conversation you know every couple of years so I love it individuals have the right to go it's sort of like you go back to you know we have no authority to say no they they have the constitutional rights to actually go door-to-door it's like the traveling salesman and and so communities try to discriminate against individuals by saying we're gonna put too many regulations up to prevent them from actually going out and trying to earn a living or do things that would be you know constitutionally protected and so we have to just be mindful you know people don't like it but it is a constitutionally protected activity thank you I'm going on

[Speaker 3] (4:24:06 - 4:24:22)
record saying I don't like it Doug's question we can say no but within there has to be a reasonableness related to that no like a reason why we're is it because their application is missing pieces or something like that like there are certain things that we do have control

[Speaker 4] (4:24:35 - 4:25:35)
all in favor thanks select board time so I'd like to just follow up on just to keep us here at least till midnight I'd like to engage in a long dissertation no this is the first time we put timelines on the agenda and we did this seems ridiculous at this hour but I do want us to really start to organize immediately about the financial summit and so if we could madam chair if we could have that on the agenda as soon as you see fit to us have a discussion about what that looks like how we organize ourselves etc to do so if I can just give a just an overview last

[Speaker 1] (4:25:35 - 4:26:11)
time we had you know a big I called it the financial fiesta we took us a month and a half to actually run data and to literally just look at pure communities you've got a pull all sorts of data we have the spreadsheet that we used last time with 40 different tabs I'm happy to share it but there's a lot of information that people need to absorb and and just see in terms of how those swamps get stacked up to peer communities when it comes to almost every category of expenditure

[Speaker 4] (4:26:13 - 4:26:35)
yes thank you yeah I have further thoughts on this I think you know because this is not just a town it's the school do we need someone from the outside to be kind of a neutral investigator of this I think we really need to think that through in this environment to make sure we're doing this thoroughly but you know much more to be discussed I would like to echo also Doug if

[Speaker 3] (4:26:35 - 4:26:40)
there is long lead on it then maybe we should start now because we know it's gonna happen yeah we've

[Speaker 1] (4:26:40 - 4:27:04)
are we're committed to it happen it's it's a good time to do this the summertime is a you know good time to actually start noodling you know where we are municipal budgets are all gonna be approved we're gonna see tax levies and you can start just going you know the information that we presented previously I think was was helpful but it's been five years since we've you've actually updated

[Speaker 5] (4:27:08 - 4:27:27)
January 20 before the pandemic so yeah I yeah I just know that if it doesn't happen this summer it's it's right it's probably not gonna happen so it has to this has to happen it will be this has to happen yes I'm committed to making it happen so I'm glad to hear the commitment from

[Speaker 3] (4:27:27 - 4:28:26)
the board I have one more thing I have one thing to go ahead okay my thing is with regards to you oh I just wanted to thank David publicly for all the work he's done his chair I know I don't know that we did this last time when we transition chairs but in being vice chair I have a much different appreciation for the incredible amount of work that it takes to do this job maybe why I stayed as vice chair and did not raise my hand to go to chair but I mean the amount of hours and time and energy and decisions that you had to make to get all of this working and the amount of stress it causes for you and your family it's a lot and I just want to acknowledge and appreciate that I see it's a lot and I am grateful that you took up their responsibility and you did your

[Speaker 7] (4:28:26 - 4:28:44)
very best and thank you and you never lost your patience you're always of the world with it so no matter how many times I came to public comment I really appreciate your family you know lending

[Speaker 5] (4:28:44 - 4:29:24)
you out thank you yeah they appreciate don't let me out more they're happy to just a quick announcement this weekend is the Swampscot pride race it's gonna happen town hall June 1st 2024 from 4 to 7 there'll be complimentary face painting lawn games entertainment bring money for eats treats and beer family-friendly run with pride 5k and the first hundred registrants receive free run with pride swag so I hope to see everybody there I will be running with my son it's his

[Speaker 3] (4:29:24 - 4:29:37)
birthday on the first and we are running to celebrate our love for love so I just I want to

[Speaker 7] (4:29:37 - 4:31:00)
thank Nathan Kent Nate by shine and Joe duet for a great job again tonight David and Sean I want to thank you for your incredible words at the Memorial Day Memorial Day service David I thought that story was awesome and I look forward to hearing more of them and I I also want to thank everybody for participating in town meeting I was troubled with some of the information that came out and a little bit of I really don't I think the word hostility might be a little bit too strong but members of the school committee did exactly what they felt they needed to do and they followed a democratic process members of the select board and members of the finance committee did exactly what they had to do and they followed a process the unions did what they had to do everybody was doing what they had to do and there's no reason for us to have hostile feelings or bad feelings against each other we have got to reel it in and all work together so that's all I have to say can

[Speaker 4] (4:31:00 - 4:31:18)
I just add a friendly amendment hopefully from the amendment to that town administrator also played his role in that and was not necessarily engineering any particular outcome in that as well so I think you said that I know that there's been some particular commentary in that regard I

[Speaker 21] (4:31:18 - 4:31:32)
would entertain a motion to adjourn.

[Speaker 3] (4:31:32 - 4:31:33)
So moved.

[Speaker 5] (4:31:34 - 4:31:35)
All in favor.

[Speaker 3] (4:31:35 - 4:31:36)
Aye.

[Speaker 5] (4:31:36 - 4:31:37)
Thank you. Good night. Thanks Joe.