[Speaker 3] (0:08 - 5:35)
Welcome everybody to this exciting series put on by Swampscot for all ages. And of course, the Council on Aging, Senior Center, all the great groups that work together so often for all of you here in Swampscot. My name is Doug Thompson, I'm on the Select Board and also on the Affordable Housing Trust here in Swampscot.

And I am delighted to have been invited to be the moderator for tonight's session. We have a terrific program and I'm going to introduce everyone in just a moment. But I also want to just make sure people are aware that this is one event in a series.

And that series is going to be going on each, about every other Wednesday over the next month. Tonight we're talking about aging in place. September 30th, I assume right here, same place, same time.

What is affordable housing? October 7th, all about accessory dwelling units. And then October 21st, financing the next steps.

Like how do you all probably make a plan for using all of these strategies that will be talked about in the first three sessions. So tonight we are joined by four illustrious colleagues. Some here from Swampscot, some from other places in Massachusetts.

The first person that will be speaking with us tonight is Antron Watson. He's here from AARP of Massachusetts, he's the Aging Friendly Director. Then we'll have Joanne Teller, who will be talking about shared housing and sharing housing from the Sharing Housing Board of Directors.

Next Sabrina Clopton. Who doesn't know Sabrina? All right, everybody knows Sabrina.

From the Senior Center. And then last but not least, Israela Abrams from the Seaglass Village. And I'm just going to kick us off just with two basic, to me, powerful pieces of information that contextualize this whole conversation.

And this is from Swampscot's housing production plan. It's a big kind of bureaucratic document, it's like 100 pages long. Talks about all the needs we have for housing.

And for the minute number of you that might actually follow the select board, we talked about this relatively recently and one particular fact really jumped out to me that we talked about that night. Currently there are about 19% of the Swampscot population that is over 65. Actually that was as of 2020.

Anyone want to take a guess what the projection is? What percentage of the population will be 65 and older by 2030? 30%.

That is a 50% increase in 10 years. That is nothing short, not to be dramatic, that's a wave. That is a tsunami of what is happening probably right now, right?

Right now. And so this series couldn't be more critical for all of you as individuals, but certainly for those of us that need to help plan policy for this town and figure out what type of resources and housing options we need. So I'm very grateful that Swampscot for All Ages has kind of taken the initiative to bring this group and this series together.

The other side of that, because for those folks that have the means, there are probably many options. But for people who are more challenged financially, that's really where obviously the pressure comes. And here in Swampscot, where maybe we kind of tend to think that everyone or most people are above average in many ways, not quite Lake Wobegon for those of you that get the reference, but we have 750 to 1,000 people here in Swampscot out of the 15,000 that live below the poverty line, many of whom are over 65.

And we have done many things in this town, many great things, but I'm not sure that we've actually targeted our policymaking towards affordable housing for seniors. We have things happening at Westcott, no matter how you feel about that, pro or con. We have other initiatives that are in motion for veterans.

That's a piece of the over 65 population. But we need to be thinking about how this urgent issue gets addressed soon. So without any further ado, I'd like to introduce, again, Antron to start us off.

[Speaker 2] (5:41 - 13:05)
Thank you so much for having me here today. As I said, I'm Antron Watson, I'm with AARP Massachusetts. I get the joy of really taking you on that journey from the national level.

Basically, what he said, what's happening here in Swampscot, it's happening everywhere across the country. So when you think about, when we ask communities or residents, 50 and older, about where they want to live in the future, about 50% actually believe that they're going to stay, or actually going to move, to allow them to age independently in their communities. When you think even further into that, or ask them more questions around that, 55% would actually consider leaving their current community to find one that is safer.

So when you think about, when you see that number, it makes you wonder, well, what does that mean in your community? What does the housing availability look like? So when folks are saying that, that means that, most likely, folks aren't able to downsize.

Maybe the affordability isn't there, as he just shared. So then, you dive a little more, you think about moving to a different community. Only 29% of people actually want to leave their communities.

And when you think about that, you're looking at maybe moving closer to family, moving closer to your support system, if you have moved away, or where does your family live? If you can't see the slides, we'll make sure they have them, they can be shared later. And then, the last question that we kind of ask is, about moving to a different residence within your current community, that's only about 18%.

And that means, people don't want to leave their communities. If they can stay, they're going to stay. I mean, you think about Swampskate, how many of you in the room would like to stay in Swampskate for, until the end of time?

There you go, right? So, oops, went too far, all right. So looking a little bit more into those details, as I said earlier, more than three quarters of older adults, age 50 and older, actually want to stay in their homes.

So that gets you up to about 70%. The fact is, we spend more time at home than anywhere else. So housing costs, the choices, and the accessibility are extremely critical.

So when our communities are ensuring that we have adequate housing, no matter our income or our abilities, it makes it easier for us to stay, in fact, in community. We're also seeing across the nation another trend, that the number of older adult households and renters are actually growing. So going on that same model there, that within, by 2040, we're almost going to double the number of older adult households that are 65 plus, okay?

So that means we're living longer, healthier lives, right? That's a good thing, in my eyes, right? So let's not be down on it.

But in that same respect, we want to make sure our housing is meeting our needs for us to stay in community. Some folks end up being very house-rich, so having more home than they can manage. And we want to find great ways to, again, remain in community.

And, you know, maintain your home. So when you think about all of those kind of statistics I just shared, you know, what are the options for actually aging in place? So at the larger, more municipal level, we have communities really looking at, where's the missing half?

Where's the missing middle housing? So you think about your housing, you think about your apartments, your high-rise kind of apartments, and then your single-family homes. What about the options in between, all right?

So some municipalities are looking at zoning codes that really, that'll address providing different housing opportunities, more like your duplexes, your triplexes. In some areas, you have more townhomes or your multiplex units. And even in some cases, they have the live-work model.

So on the bottom, you'll have a business, and up top, kind of have your living spaces. These are just options that communities are trying to approach now to provide those additional opportunities for downsizing a community and or keeping folks in the community. Another piece, obviously Massachusetts most recently passed the housing bill, which allows accessory dwelling units by right across the state.

I think Swampskate did it in 2023, if I'm not mistaken. So again, the state is also looking at trying to address housing the best way they can. So that brings us to the last thing.

Another option would be sharing a home, which we're going to hear about later today. But about 69% of folks, when asked if they would consider sharing their home, are saying yes. They'll share it with a family member, most likely.

And you think about that model, the way I've seen it most is your multi-generational homes. Kind of the older adult children are living at home with the parents, or you move to go live with the relative, kind of that house-sharing model. About 54% said they'll share it with a friend.

And then, you know, 6% would share it with a stranger. I don't know. Is that right?

Would you share your home with a stranger? Yeah. It's interesting, right?

There's some that would, some that wouldn't. So, I mean, it's an option to consider. And then, one of the last options is, ultimately, staying in your home, okay?

I think we all, to some degree, love our homes, slash hate our homes. But one of the ways to think about it is, how can I make sure my home is fit? Hopefully, you know, as you came in today, you were able to pick up a copy of the book.

If not, there are some back there. But a HomeFit guide really takes you through, room by room, looking at your home to determine, how can I be the safest as possible to remain in my home and stay in my community? Which is, ultimately, the goal for a lot of us.

But in addition to that, it really helps you determine what are some of the low, simple to low-cost, slash DIY ways that you can make your home safer. And that's simply by changing knobs, in some cases, right? Changing your doorknobs from the kind of grab knobs to the lever knobs on your cabinets, on your doorways.

To the more expensive models, maybe adding a chairlift to get up and down steps. And then your extremely expensive jobs, widening doorways, bringing in a landscaper to make your home a zero-step entrance. All of these ways can help keep you in the home.

So, this is a guide that will take you through that, simple ways for you to determine what's best and where you need help. All right? And with that, I'm going to turn it over.

[Speaker 3] (13:05 - 13:42)
Yeah, I didn't actually queue this up completely. So Antron is already kind of making up ground for us, time-wise. Can you hear me?

Okay. So, let's just take a moment. Do people have questions for Antron at this point?

We're going to go through each person, give you a chance to ask any immediate questions you have, and then once everyone's done, we'll kind of try to integrate it and ask questions of anyone you want. Any questions right now? Don't be shy.

We're all friends. Anything you went by too fast? Yes, Margaret.

Thank you. I knew I could count on you to ask a question.

[Speaker 9] (13:42 - 14:58)
So, I'm just downsized in the house, 20 housing, 40 housing, for a large portion of the country, it's middle-income. The goal that everybody wants. And I worry because people historically have been in the house long enough to appreciate the value.

You sell it for something less, now you have money to live on as you age. But what's really happening around here now, a few years ago, was 800,000, so it's this huge straddle for middle-income people where they gave up the three-and-four-bedroom house. It's too downsized.

We're now making available housing for families. So, is this always going to happen?

[Speaker 2] (14:59 - 16:07)
No, definitely. That's a gap that we're seeing across the state, even, where communities are raising those same concerns. Folks are saying that, I would love to downsize, but I can't afford to downsize.

So, one, communities are looking at, what does affordable housing actually mean in our state? Is it just for the lowest of incomes? Or, how do we make affordable housing affordable for the folks across the middle as well?

Because, ultimately, if folks can't afford to stay here, they're going to leave here. Right? And then, that's not going to help our communities either.

So, it's something that needs to be addressed, and I think folks are looking at it and hoping to find some sort of a solution to address that. I think, one, there was a listening session across the state not too long ago, and someone brought up the, was it a senior AMI, average median income? Because, the median incomes are obviously, what is it, the lowest?

[Speaker 3] (16:08 - 16:10)
It's $102,000 here in Swampscott.

[Speaker 2] (16:10 - 16:35)
Yeah, $102,000. But, that's including all of your work, everybody who's working. Right.

What about seniors, older adults who are living off of Social Security or other forms of income? Right? So, that's something that's been brought up as a concern or a possible solution.

We don't know where that's going to land yet, but it's a question that's been proposed and is being looked at.

[Speaker 3] (16:36 - 17:12)
Antoine, may I just follow up on that? And then, Mr. Powell has a question as well, but can I, because I had the exact same question, kind of. Can you think of any example of any community that, whether on a municipal level or by getting state or federal money, has actually targeted developing this?

Sometimes, it's called workforce housing. That's kind of like for people who are working, right? But, it is more of that middle tier.

Any examples come to mind about innovative projects or anything in that regard? I don't mean to put you on the spot.

[Speaker 2] (17:12 - 17:37)
Yeah, no, that's a really good question. On the spot, I cannot think of any community specifically that have tried that model, but I have seen across, I think it is in California, actually to increase the number of accessory dwelling units that are being built. They've covered kind of that initial planning cost, right?

So, having plans available for residents to use should they pursue wanting to build an accessory dwelling unit.

[Speaker 3] (17:37 - 17:39)
Take some of the friction out of the process.

[Speaker 2] (17:39 - 18:19)
Take some of the friction out of the process, right? They've already made it accessible or possible for accessory dwellings to be built, but also taking away that part of having to find an architect to draw up the plans to figure this all out. And, I mean, some of that's already prepared for you.

That's thousands of dollars that are saved on the front end for potentially building an accessory dwelling unit. And, in some cases, folks are using accessory dwelling units to downsize into, right? They'll downsize, keep the property, in most cases, keep it in the family, bring distant family relatives back home to live in the larger unit, and they themselves are able to sustain life in the smaller unit.

[Speaker 3] (18:19 - 18:24)
That's a plug for the October 7th session on ADUs. Bob?

[Speaker 7] (18:24 - 18:32)
So, in terms of that, people are pretty well on seven of the eight categories, but they get dinged on the portability for housing.

[Speaker 15] (18:32 - 18:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (18:32 - 18:34)
Like many surrounding communities.

[Speaker 15] (18:34 - 18:34)
Correct.

[Speaker 7] (18:35 - 18:58)
But, as you think about the kind of zoning laws and changes to the zoning law that need to be made in a community that is, I'll look at it, the third most dense in Massachusetts population-wise, we don't have a lot of land to do this. Right. That's the solution.

[Speaker 2] (18:58 - 19:44)
There's cases where folks are rezoning, right? A lot of your single family unit zoned areas are sometimes being converted to multifamily zoned properties or areas to allow for folks who have those larger properties to maybe turn it from a single family home into a duplex, right? I mean, split it down the middle.

If you can bring another family, a younger family, or another family into the community and provide a decent amount of space for them, that's another way that folks are looking at it. So, zoning, I mean, is a possibility. It's not going to be the end-all, be-all.

I think there's going to be some other ways to approach it, but that's one way to approach adding more housing and addressing the affordability piece.

[Speaker 3] (19:45 - 19:53)
Great. Any other questions for Anshan right now? Okay.

Thank you. Awesome. Thanks.

Let's move along.

[Speaker 15] (19:53 - 19:58)
All right.

[Speaker 3] (19:59 - 20:01)
Joanne Tuller. Come on down.

[Speaker 1] (20:03 - 20:08)
Do I have to? Being short, I would rather not use the podium. Can I just use that microphone?

[Speaker 3] (20:08 - 20:12)
Yes, and you have one right in front of you as well if you wish to.

[Speaker 1] (20:12 - 20:13)
No, because I need to use the slides.

[Speaker 3] (20:13 - 20:14)
Oh, advanced slides. Yes, you may.

[Speaker 1] (20:16 - 25:14)
Sorry. So, while Heidi is bringing this up, I am a member of the board of Sharing Housing Incorporated, which I'll talk about a bit more, but my main goal today isn't to talk about our organization. It's really to try to increase, potentially, that 6% that Antron told us about, that is, the people who would consider shared housing, but with a stranger.

Of course, by the time you move in with them, they're not a stranger, but, you know, that in our society, I'm a little self-conscious watching myself there, that, you know, in our society, many of us don't have a relative or relatives that we would be able to live with or who would want to live with us. We may or may not have friends whose situation are similar and that we would want to live with, and also, just by the way, what makes a good housemate is not necessarily the same set of qualities that makes a good friend. I mean, I would never, in a million years, live with most of my closest friends.

I love them, but they're not compatible with me. So, just to back up a little bit, so shared housing, in general, is something that we have a lot of different options for. I, myself, currently live with six other adults, one of whom is my spouse, and I've lived with one other person, I've lived with two housemates, I've lived with three, I've lived in a college dorm thingy, a college co-op that had 35 housemates, and that was kind of a zoo.

So, I've basically, I walk the walk, I've lived with other people I'm not related to for most of my adult life, and my goal, both the goal of sharing housing and my personal goal about this is to help people to understand that despite the stigma that's put in it, people kind of ask me, are most of the people in your house students now? And it's kind of something that's thought of as being for people who don't have any other choice, and not as something that could be a positive choice in itself, something that's fun, something that's helpful, something that's interesting, something that's vibrant. We're basically told in our society that you're supposed to live with your partner if you have one, with your kids.

If you don't have a partner or kids, you're supposed to live by yourself, end of story. And other options are not only not thought of as just as good, but they're discouraged by our housing, our zoning laws in many cases, by practices of our institutions, our financial institutions, our government institutions. You can't, for example, if you have a Section 8 voucher, my understanding is that you can't take that Section 8 voucher and say, I want to move in and be so-and-so's roommate.

You have to have a separate apartment. But that's silly. It costs the government more that way.

And it means that people end up being more isolated than is necessary, in my opinion. So I'm actually, I've been changing what I wanted to say to you as I've been listening to Antoine and other people. So I'm not actually even sure if this is going to be, how do I do this?

I tried. Oh, here, wait a minute. There's a little thingy right there.

Let's try that. Yep, there we go. So that was the Golden Girls, as we all are familiar with, I think.

But that's fiction, right? This is real. These three women bought a house together.

That's the house on the bottom. They lived together for 10 years. They wrote a book, which is a very useful book if you want to go in and that kind of more advanced thing of buying a house together with somebody else, about the do's and don'ts.

The book is called My House, Our House. You can find it in the library. And then that book on the right is Sharing Housing, which is the book that Anna Marie, who's the Executive Director of the organization I'm on the board of, Sharing Housing, wrote.

Because like me, she had lived, although mostly with smaller numbers of people, she'd lived with one or two people for much of her life. And she found that other people were interested in it, but they didn't know how. And she wanted to...

We believe that these skills that frighten people from living with a stranger, the reason that only 6% want to do it here, I brought this in to show you as an example. Can people hear me? By the way, I just realized I'm not using the microphone.

Can you hear me in the back? Great. You may not be able to see.

This is roommates from hell.

[Speaker 15] (25:16 - 25:16)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (25:16 - 31:49)
And I think part of what happened to some of us... I mean, how many people here have ever lived with another person they weren't related to? Oh, almost everybody.

How many people have done it, let's say, after the age of 50? Only very... Okay.

After the age of 50? Okay, just a few. All right.

So most people probably was when you were younger, right? And I think at that age, some of what happens that gives this stuff a bad reputation is that people, they graduate from school, whatever, they move in with their three best friends. And they soon find out what I said before, that best friends and housemates are not necessarily the same thing.

They haven't maybe matured as much to think about what they really want and what they need, because they haven't done this before. And it's not something, again, that people have examples of. We all have examples of couples living together.

We all have examples of people. We don't necessarily come into contact with examples of successful homemade situations. And there are a lot of them.

So I'm not going to talk... There's not time tonight. I'm not going to talk about how we do them.

That's what sharing housing does. It's also something that I've been doing for a long time, teaching people about the skills they're involved in. Number one, figuring out what you yourself need and want in a housing situation and feeling okay to say that.

For example, I can't stand listening to jazz in the kitchen. Not rational, just is. And I can't live with a housemate who wants to listen to jazz in the kitchen.

Okay, that's just something I need to know about myself. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's an incompatibility. So that's a sort of trivial example.

But there's other ones that people need to know. So one skill is learning about yourself and what you need and writing it down and sort of thinking about it. And the second skill is looking for people and interviewing them and figuring out, again, who is going to work with you and who is not.

And again, that's a skill that can be learned, that can be taught. And that's what we do in sharing housing. And the third skill is the skills for living together with somebody in a harmonious way when you have to negotiate.

And to some extent, we all have those because we've all lived with other people at one point or another. Even if they were family, we still had to negotiate some things to make everybody happy. But it can be a little different when it's not somebody that you've made a lifetime commitment to.

So again, our goal is to help people to gain those skills. And again, I'd like to sort of move maybe a few of you and a few of the people out there over from that, over from that, I'd only want to live with family or I'd only want to live with friends to, all right, I mean, it's scary. But I'm willing to consider living with one or more housemates.

And I'm willing to learn more about it. And this is our goal that we want shared housing to be a universally accepted living arrangement and one that people can do with success and that society in general encourages. When I say encourage, I don't mean that this is for everybody.

Being in a partnership isn't for everybody. Living alone is, every way of living has good things about it and bad things about it. You know, my household, there's decisions I can't make by myself.

You know, the refrigerator breaks and you want a new refrigerator. We all have to decide together. That's a disadvantage.

The advantage is I get a home-cooked meal every night and I only have to cook once a week. How cool is that? So I've decided for myself that the advantage is, now I'm not expecting, you know, most of you to be interested in living with six other people, right?

But one or two adds companionship. It adds safety. It adds security.

It's sustainable because you only need one toaster instead of two. And it's, it's, it's, it's life-affirming. I don't know what, I mean, that sounds very pretentious, but it's true.

You know, I mean, I love my housemates and they, I have learned so much from them and I've been able to, you know, we don't, I haven't really talked about the financial piece, but of course, it's much more if you have a house that you're already paying for. And this is true across the country, that there are many, many, many, many, many, many seniors, especially, but other people who live in houses that have two, three, four bedrooms. Those bedrooms are already paid for.

Nobody's living in them. And then we have other people without homes. And, you know, it's, it's, it's a way not only for people, but for a society to increase the amount of affordable housing for everybody with, without having to do any building, without changing, in most cases, without changing zoning.

Because in Swampscot, I believe you can have up to four unrelated people in a, you know, in a house. So you don't, that's not, that's okay. And, and it just, again, it's, it's, it's, it's an option that, that if you're in a position where you're thinking, you know, I'm living alone or even I'm living with my spouse, you know, and we could use some help, you know, it's getting hard to, believe me, I know it's getting hard to shovel the snow.

It's getting hard, you know, I don't want to come home and not have anybody know whether I'm safe or not. All of those things that you consider the option of having a homemate or a housemate. And I guess that's where I'm going to end.

I don't even know what else I put on here. Let's see. These are the benefits.

We already talked about that. And these are examples of people that our executive director put together. These are all home sharers of different kinds, for different reasons, and they got started in different ways.

There are some organizations that do this. We don't have one here, but we should have one. And that's something else, I think, for the people in Swansford to think about, having an organization that helps with masses.

And I'm going to stop. Thank you. How did I do on time?

[Speaker 3] (31:49 - 31:55)
You did phenomenally well. Questions for Joanne right now. Carol.

[Speaker 1] (32:03 - 34:24)
Right. So the first thing I'm going to say about that is that our experiences, certainly my personal experience, it's Anna Marie's experience, it's our experience as an organization, that the chances of things not working out are, that when things don't work out, it's usually because people didn't have those skills and didn't really know how to think through in advance what makes it work and what doesn't.

In the situation where, you know, and again, in most situations where it doesn't work out, it may turn out that somebody needed something they didn't know they needed. And, you know, you don't have to make, this is not intended to be permanent. And in fact, our marriages, if you're married, aren't permanent either.

Nothing's permanent. Or they may not be permanent. I shouldn't say that they never are.

So, you know, often people will do, like in my house, we do a trial period. You know, and we see in the first six months or so, you often trial period in a, if you just have like one housemate, would be shorter, like three months. And during that time, everybody sees how it's going and nobody makes a commitment beyond that.

And that way, there's a kind of a safety valve. So there's various kinds of ways of greatly minimizing the likelihood that it's not going to work, which include paying attention to your gut. You know, and my house, we just interviewed somebody and I had to go through this because everybody in my household liked the person, except I sort of had some gut reaction like, uh-uh.

And I had to say no, because I kind of had a sense that this wasn't going to work. So, and, you know, I mean, yes, I'm not saying that there can't be a problem where, you know, somebody might really turn out. We always ask you to check references for one thing, which is not something people ordinarily do when they're looking for housemates, but we recommend that you always do.

And we have a sort of worksheets for how to do that. I'm not saying it's impossible for it not to work. Of course, that sometimes these things happen just like they do in other relationships in our lives, in marriages or, you know, with our kids or whatever.

And, but it's very rare. You know, it's very rare that it gets to a point where it's like really a crisis. Yeah.

I'm not sure that answers your question.

[Speaker 15] (34:24 - 34:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (34:25 - 34:31)
It's the kind of thing that we have to talk, it's hard to talk about in a short amount of time. I'm sorry. You went and then Sabrina, I think, had a question too.

What was, were you next?

[Speaker 14] (34:31 - 34:50)
I have a question. Yeah, I mean, all, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (34:50 - 34:56)
So, so, so Anna Marie's book, did I, I brought it with me. I've been taken out.

[Speaker 3] (34:56 - 34:58)
Oh, you showed it on the screen, but yeah.

[Speaker 1] (34:58 - 36:16)
Oh, right. Okay. Yeah.

Let me get it up, up here. This is Anna Marie's book. It's the same one on screen.

It's a different color. It's plus $20 on Amazon. And she doesn't, she doesn't go over like, you know, what to do if your housemate steals from you, right?

You know, that's a really extreme. But she does go over, you know, how to avoid having the kind of housemate who isn't reliable and, you know, that kind of thing. If, if, if, you know, if people want to know more about that specific issue, you know, then I put, I'm going to put our mailing list up there, you know, write, write down your name and write that down and write down your questions.

I'm sorry. I'm not more prepared to talk about that. Again, it's kind of out of my experience because I've been doing this for 50 years and I've never, you know, the one time, the couple of times we had housemates who didn't really work out, they knew it too when they left because they weren't happy either, you know.

And then we had one housemate who we had to ask, we had a couple of housemates who we had to ask to leave, but they did. So, you know, my personal experience is that you, you work it out. I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm not saying that, you know, you can't have terrible tenants.

Of course you can, but it's rare. It's very, very rare.

[Speaker 3] (36:16 - 36:20)
And, you know, then you get help. There's a question in the back. Yes, still, yes.

[Speaker 16] (36:21 - 36:29)
I was curious about the resources that your organization might have to help someone facilitate. Sure.

[Speaker 1] (36:30 - 37:38)
So, so we, besides the book, we, we do classes, some of which are on our website and are free here. Let me advance this. So that's our website.

Although it says calm, we are a nonprofit. We've got two, two parallel websites. That's the book, sorry.

And that's me. And you can feel free to email me or phone me. I know I love talking about this stuff, as you might've gathered.

And so we have on our website, we have worksheets. We have a blog where people write about different things that have happened to them. We have some videos and, and, and class stuff that are teaching stuff that's free.

And we have, we have signups for the stuff that we charge for, which is more intense, kind of like four, four session class about how to live. And then Anna Marie also conducts twice a month Q&A sessions. So if you put yourself on our mailing list, then you will get stuff for the Q&A sessions.

And that's just, anybody can come and bring whatever questions they have, including these questions. That's, it would be a good place to bring the questions about, oh, I'm scared that something really bad might happen.

[Speaker 3] (37:39 - 37:40)
Fantastic.

[Speaker 1] (37:40 - 37:51)
For me, the issue is to weigh, you know, what are the advantages here, right? What are the disadvantages? And do those set of advantages and disadvantages, the ones that fit for me?

[Speaker 3] (37:52 - 38:19)
Sorry. Yeah. I know this has stirred up a lot of questions.

I want to try to balance, making sure we get through everybody and then circle back around. I have a feeling maybe we'll come back around. Is there any, like, absolutely, I cannot wait one half hour to ask my next question to Joanne.

All right. Thank you very much, Joanne. You all are very good clappers.

Sabrina.

[Speaker 5] (38:19 - 43:09)
Sure. I don't have slides, so I could stay here. Or stand.

Is this good? So my role tonight really, honestly, is learning, like everybody here, and to kind of introduce a new initiative that we're starting at the Senior Center and what we hope will develop into something that will help kind of in this kind of larger puzzle of housing. And that is our community board.

And I will back up and say that as a social worker at the Senior Center, I frequently see people in various states of housing questioning. I would say people come to the center with a range of, I just want some information, to full-blown panic. And so, and lots of people in between.

And I have, as a provider, felt overwhelmed, helpless, incompetent. But, you know, I really am trying to listen to everybody's individual needs and do my very best to try and get people where they need to be. So the concept behind our community board really kind of developed out of a relationship I formed with a Senior Center member who's here, Roseanne Daigle.

Can I get a wave? And Roseanne and I became acquainted when she was searching for a new home. She had had stable housing, housing that she loved.

And for just many reasons, it was time for her to find another place to live. This is after almost a decade of being in the same apartment. But she faced a rental market that was very different from the market that she kind of came out of when she was, you know, just in her previous residence.

And this brought up a lot of feelings, a lot of it, just a range. And she really did such a wonderful job learning, advocating for herself, being really clear about what she wanted, what she needed. And she learned so much, and I had the privilege of kind of meeting with her over the course of, I honestly, Roseanne, didn't really do much for you, except for just sort of listen to you.

And, you know, maybe, you know, but the point is, is that I learned so much from her process, and she shared this with me. And during this phase of working with her, I became acquainted with another woman with a very similar story, different, you know, some details were different, but kind of a similar situation. And I thought, oh my gosh, wouldn't it be so great?

Roseanne is now happy, she's found a spot. She did a lot of this with her own research, her own legwork. Wouldn't it be so awesome if I could connect to these two women, and they could learn from one another?

And I asked Roseanne if she'd be willing to meet with this other person. This other person was so delighted to meet with Roseanne. And through that connection, while the details were different, and while this other person is living in a different kind of situation, I think it was really just the empowerment that came from the connection that they made, resource sharing, skills, a skill transference that was occurring, and just that, just the power of being with somebody who's walked in your shoes, and knows the fear, knows the anxiety, and knows that there can be a solution. And it was just such a great experience that I thought, okay, hold on, we need to kind of build on this, and we need to find a way to connect people who have similar stories or have need the line, have landlords maybe find potential renters, and have renters find landlords or housing situations. So the idea for our community board, which is really just kind of an old school community, a bulletin board at the senior center, which we're really hoping to kind of develop into just a communication board where people who are seeking housing solutions can post those needs, and people who may have a solution to offer can post those needs.

And I think we'll probably, you know, again, this is conceptual, and I would welcome any feedback from anyone here tonight with some ideas on how we can, you know, really make this into something that is a thing. And knowing that I was going to be speaking tonight, though, I did kind of look back at some data that we collect at the center, and I think it's really interesting, Doug, that you said, and if I'm getting this right, that currently 19% of our Swampscott population is over 65.

[Speaker 3] (43:09 - 43:10)
As of 2020.

[Speaker 5] (43:11 - 43:49)
As of 2020, okay. And in 10 years, that's going to be 30%. So one year ago, so September to September 2022 to 2023, about 3% of my total outreach hours, contact hours were dedicated to housing.

And this September 2023 to September 2024, 10% of my outreach hours were dedicated to housing. So, yeah. I mean, I will say that it's something that is palpable, it's super relevant, and I think it's going to take a lot of creativity.

[Speaker 3] (43:52 - 44:02)
I'm just thinking about actual people, those percentages, that's like talking about Swampscott, 3,000 people being over 65, going to 4,500 in just 10 years.

[Speaker 5] (44:04 - 44:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (44:06 - 44:09)
So it's probably going to be 20% next year for you.

[Speaker 5] (44:09 - 44:17)
Probably, right, right. Yes, so yeah. So that's kind of what I had prepared to talk about, but go ahead.

[Speaker 12] (44:17 - 44:47)
Well, just a point of information. I don't know if I'm the only one here from Marblehead or not. Our population is much older.

Yeah. I had heard that by 2025, 50%. Or 30% is going to be...

I can't remember the figures anymore, but it's much higher. Wow. Whatever it is, because it was 83% now, and by just a couple of years from then, it was going to be 50%.

[Speaker 3] (44:49 - 45:05)
Well, we're not here, you're in Swampscott, we're not here to have the Swampscott Marblehead competition. About who's older, but we've got plenty of people who are older. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it's actually not that much different, but that's okay.

[Speaker 1] (45:05 - 45:07)
But put it this way. It's a problem across...

[Speaker 3] (45:07 - 45:08)
Exactly, exactly.

[Speaker 5] (45:16 - 46:14)
And I just might add to just a couple of things that for us at the center, again, there's no science behind this, it's just sort of anecdotal observation that the most frequently seen presenting issue with housing for us is affordability. Like when there's that mismatch, either your income can no longer sustain your housing or the cost of your housing, the cumulative rent increase has become burdensome. So that's a tipping point.

Imminent loss of housing due to a change in ownership of a property or a family situation that's no longer viable. And then this is a big one too. One that we all need to think about and it's kind of maybe with the HomeFit, incompatibility between one's physical space and their housing, current housing and their kind of progression or progressive mobility impairment.

So those are just kind of like the three main, if I can isolate the things that we maybe can hone in on and focus on.

[Speaker 3] (46:15 - 46:29)
I think that's an excellent potential segue to our next speaker. Okay, but Mr. Powell wants to stop the flow.

[Speaker 7] (46:29 - 46:57)
All right, yes, go ahead, Mr. Powell. I mean, it's not a paid political announcement, but I do support this message, which is at 4,000 people over 65, that is more than double the number of students in our school system, which has a budget of over 30 million and a senior center that has a budget of under 200,000. So as you go into budget season, I feel like this meeting has been hijacked.

[Speaker 3] (46:57 - 46:58)
But anyway, so.

[Speaker 8] (46:59 - 47:08)
And just to go on that, the senior center as well has got to be fabulous, but it's so busy, it's hard to get a space for anyone to come and meet them.

[Speaker 3] (47:10 - 47:28)
All right, so now that I know we have a focus group for the Community Life Center here, any other urgent questions for Sabrina at the moment about this excellent idea about a community bulletin board? Okay, moving on. Israel?

[Speaker 4] (47:28 - 47:30)
Yeah, everybody knows me as Izzy.

[Speaker 3] (47:31 - 47:37)
Izzy, all right, all right, fantastic. Izzy, take it away for ways that we can deal with our changing ability to live in our homes.

[Speaker 4] (47:37 - 52:25)
Okay, so I'm vice president this year of Seaglass Village. How many of you have heard of us? If you haven't, you're gonna hear about us tonight.

So Seaglass Village opened in December 1st of 2021, and it's a community of seniors in Marblehead, Nahant, and Swamscott that are really helping each other to maintain independence and to enjoy life. And I think that's the two best things as you age, if you can still feel that life is worth living and you can remain independent. But, there's a but, and I think the people who first came up with the idea of a village, and this was done a number of years ago in Beacon Hill, and it had gotten a lot of PR about it too, like, yeah, they're doing things there and they're helping each other.

Well, why not bring that model into Swamscott, Marblehead, and Nahant? And that is what Seaglass Village has done. I am thrilled to be involved with it.

I've met wonderful people and helped people, and I think it's a great organization. We have our ups, we have our downs, like any organization, but we make it through and we work hard to make it through. Let me tell you a little bit about our values, what we want Seaglass Village to be able to be for our community.

It will be a community for a community. It's a member-driven mindset of developing strong, internal village relationships and external community relationships. So, we're looking at both sides of the picture.

We know there are issues in our town. How can we best deal with that? And can we work as a group to really affect change?

And I think just by being here tonight and talking about this, that in itself is worth a lot. I'm in the same place that you all are. I'm still in, I hate to say it, but I live in another town, but really close to Swamscott.

I live in the village, but in square. And somehow that was the beginning, I think, that we saw in Swamscott of trying to get people to live together in a community. And it's had its ups and its downs.

And, you know, I like it. I don't like it. I miss not having my own little garden, whatever, you know, the pluses and the minuses.

But there is a community in this Seaglass concept. And we really work together. I've made new friends.

And I think that is so important as we age, that we broaden our social skills, get out there and do. And I know I've read that in an AARP magazine too. We are inclusive.

We welcome members of different cultures, faiths, genders, orientations, and abilities. We mutually care. We support and care for each other.

And we're really, we're out there knowing when people need us. We have a wonderful person. I'm going to make her raise her hand.

Right back there. Alistair Vo, who is our executive director. And she keeps us functioning.

And you call her up. She knows the answer. You need help.

She'll find the help for you. We are online. And we also realize that sometimes people have trouble getting through to us because they're not that computer savvy.

There's still the phone. We still use telephones. In our organization.

And it's important to know that Seaglass Village, and I have cards and brochures for you up there. We're listening and we know. And we get back to you right away as soon as we can.

So what do we actually do for the community? Well, as you get older, and I want to see hands on this one. What do you do if your smoke detector goes off and you can't get it to shut off?

Okay, or what do you do if you can't get your air conditioner out of the, you got it in, but you can't get it back out when the summer season is, you know, done?

[Speaker 1] (52:25 - 52:26)
That's what younger housemates are for.

[Speaker 4] (52:26 - 55:17)
Yes, he's got it another way. We also do such things as drive people. And we are, I hate to say this, I think, you know, we have driving going on through other organizations, you know, and I'm going to say neighboring organizations like this and whatever.

We went through such a process to make sure that our drivers were, had the right insurance, knew what they would do. I mean, Cory, the whole thing, and we do this and our drivers go everywhere. They go as far as the airport.

They go when someone might have surgery, say, cataracts, and someone has to stay there and pick them up. This kind of stuff, people don't realize they're going to need this. And, you know, here we are, a group of, now we're 100 members and we are 85 volunteers.

So we really have that balance going. We have fantastic activities organized for our membership and volunteers. And I'm going to ask another person to raise their hand.

Linda Garber, who is amazing. She has come up with such ideas and things that people want to do. And she's in every, you know, educational trips, going to restaurants, you name it, she comes up with it.

And so that's another part of it. We have an organization that needs volunteers and has members. You might be a volunteer in the beginning, but maybe as the time passes, you need that help and it's giving back.

It's paying forward if you want to look at it that way. And C2S Village is really an incredible organization to say they are really helping seniors stay at home. And we recognize all of the things that everybody is saying here, especially making the house the best possible place, the safest place that they can live in.

Am I right? People, there's more I could tell you. We have a great time with this and we feel that we can call each other and people that are members can call and talk about issues.

And that's what we do. And we want to continue doing this for our three communities. So, okay.

Questions? Anybody?

[Speaker 3] (55:18 - 55:19)
Is he a self-moderating, so?

[Speaker 4] (55:22 - 55:23)
They know me, yeah.

[Speaker 13] (55:25 - 55:30)
In the future, something like this might spread to a bigger community.

[Speaker 4] (55:30 - 56:09)
Ah, funny you should, yeah, I know. One of the things that we talk about and we're on our third year of existence, whether or not we are going to become a spoke for other communities in the area to become their own villages. And I know Heidi, who is our founding person, talks about this a lot with us, that we are, we know what we're doing.

We still have, you know, ways to go, but we could help other communities become villages. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (56:09 - 56:09)
Is it?

[Speaker 4] (56:09 - 56:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (56:10 - 56:12)
Isn't there a website that connects them?

[Speaker 4] (56:12 - 56:58)
Oh, yes, yeah. Our village website that connects 300 and... No, no, no.

I meant, no, you mentioned that Seaglass Village has a website. No, I'm talking about nationally. Right, yeah.

Okay, so they're like, it's at, what is it? 350, I think, around 350 villages all across the country. But we, you know, here we are in the Northeast with, you know, Beacon Hill starting it off and then people learning about it from that.

And it makes you feel like you still have a say and you still can do things when you've got people around. Anything else? Yes.

Linda, go ahead.

[Speaker 8] (56:58 - 57:51)
Um, it's not a question, but I have an observation. So I came here when I retired. I didn't know a soul.

And I got to go to the facility where I can sit next to my friend. And my friend, I have a huge social life. I know, it seems like dozens and dozens of people.

And the feedback I get from our members is, it makes such a difference in their lives to feel connected. To have somebody that you can count on. Our drivers, they are just friendly.

And you learn from them and have fun conversations. And we are able to go to people's houses and help them put their coat on, get out of the car. And as Lucy said, take what they need if you need anything.

It's just an amazing group of volunteers we have that we can bring in to help people live in their homes easier. Change the lightbulb.

[Speaker 4] (57:51 - 57:52)
Yeah, and lightbulbs.

[Speaker 8] (57:53 - 58:22)
Yeah, change the lightbulb. Seven-ounce shot or several. We have people that have spouses that are early onset Alzheimer's or dementia.

And we have friendly visits by volunteers. So go and sit in that house with the person who is ill while the spouse just wants to take a walk on the block. And it makes such a difference.

So I encourage everybody to explore it.

[Speaker 15] (58:24 - 58:24)
Thanks.

[Speaker 3] (58:25 - 58:26)
Excellent.

[Speaker 7] (58:29 - 58:30)
Just a general question.

[Speaker 3] (58:31 - 58:32)
Go right ahead.

[Speaker 7] (58:34 - 58:41)
So Joe Kaufman at the MIT AIDS lab is fond of saying that the future is female. And if there was ever an example of that, I could see it.

[Speaker 3] (58:43 - 58:49)
There was a moment, about 6.30, there was not one male in the room, except for the two of us or three of us.

[Speaker 7] (58:51 - 59:25)
So anyway, the question is, and I know we may talk about this in a future session, but as I think about the notion that husbands typically pre-decease their wives by about five years, and there's about a 10-year barrier of widows living alone, and staying in their home becomes all the more unaffordable, real estate taxes, insurance, who knows what else, maybe key lock. There's been some efforts around the state and elsewhere to have homeowners defer their real estate taxes and pay them back later. And I'm curious, maybe Andrew can address this, the degree to which that's being used here in Massachusetts.

[Speaker 2] (59:26 - 1:00:31)
Yeah, no, that's a really good question. When you think about taxes, we've seen several communities who have kind of the tax work-off programs, where they're actually saying that folks aren't taking full advantage of them, or just aren't aware. So that's where communities are really upping their approach to making residents be more aware of the tax incentives or tax work-off programs or deferment opportunities, to again, kind of mitigate that unaffordability to stay in communities.

So it is something that's being approached or is available in several communities, but some residents just don't know about it and aren't taking advantage of it. So anytime we get the word out, or if you know, I think word of mouth oftentimes does a lot, and I think municipal leaders are in fact trying to improve the communications in general about services that are provided in their community, because that's something that is going unutilized, that could really ease the burden.

[Speaker 3] (1:00:33 - 1:00:47)
It's an adjacent thing. Everyone know about the senior tax work-off program here? Who knows about that?

Okay, so there's a few people that don't. Jodi, would you like to talk about it? All right.

[Speaker 6] (1:00:47 - 1:02:53)
I run the program. We have gone from about 12 to 14 people on the program in the past. A lot of times before, we sent forward a ministerial to defiligate.

In fact, when we were talking, I was wondering, is there any way to get the senior workers who have to do some less village volunteering? I'll make this brief, but you can work as a homeowner in Swanstack. You can work up to $133 an hour, that's minimum wage, so $15 an hour, to get a $2,000 tax credit off your property tax bill.

You have to be six years or older, or have that friend of any age, and that's about it. I mean, we just, we do things from this thing called walking, where you can pick up a little while walking. It's kind of Swedish then, I think, but to work in town hall, working on elections, to working in senior centers, people who are going to do art project assignments.

If we have people from MIT that are going to work, we have an incredible mix of people, recent retirees, some people have been out of their program a little longer, so it's a great program. I would love to keep running it, because it went from $1,500 last year to $2,000. It's a state kind of, under a state guideline, so they raised it up to $2,000 last year, and so we did, but I get calls from other towns, looking for information on how to do it, because I think we're pretty progressive on it, and so it's a great program.

If you want to, or maybe... I would love to run it, yeah, I think it's a great program.

[Speaker 1] (1:02:54 - 1:02:58)
I think I'm going to move to Swampscott. I think I'm going to move to Swampscott as well.

[Speaker 6] (1:02:59 - 1:03:07)
Yeah, it's kind of one of those where you can't just sort of run a program, but I don't know if we can do that.

[Speaker 13] (1:03:09 - 1:03:10)
I'll talk to John.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:11 - 1:03:13)
I'll talk to Sean first. Yes, ma'am.

[Speaker 13] (1:03:13 - 1:03:30)
I was just wondering about the Workbox program. Can you join it in real time, or do you have to wait until January? Jodi?

Jodi, I'm sorry. Can you join if you're working on the tax bill at any time, or do you have to wait until January?

[Speaker 6] (1:03:30 - 1:03:59)
Well, we've been doing it on a rolling admissions kind of approach. It's difficult to do that, so I think we're going to maybe shift to quarterly at least, working for twice a year. It's getting a little tougher as we get more people to make sure I can get them to get their hours, but it is provided.

So say you only get 50 hours, and you get either half an hour or whatever that includes.

[Speaker 12] (1:04:01 - 1:04:03)
Do you only get 15 people, or?

[Speaker 6] (1:04:04 - 1:04:35)
No, no, we have a lot of staff on that. It's more limited to... But we recently put something out to help at the elementary school, because they're looking for people just to walk the little kids in and bring them out, and maybe help out at lunchtime, and each one of those is an hour.

It doesn't take an hour, but you can have it as an hour. So the schools are starting to get involved as well, the library. So anyway, let's go.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:37 - 1:05:14)
All right, let's hang a big question mark on that. But anyway, so all right. Other questions specifically about Seaglass Village at this point?

Okay, now let's kind of like open it back up. I know there are still some remaining questions earlier, I think for about shared housing, but anything that people, any perspective, any questions that people have? Oh, Jody, people want to know how to contact you.

You're stealing the show here.

[Speaker 6] (1:05:29 - 1:05:42)
Okay, so back to our regular scheduled programming.

[Speaker 3] (1:05:45 - 1:05:52)
So any other thoughts from any of you in terms of hearing from each other about the questions in general? Any other things that you wanted to share?

[Speaker 5] (1:05:53 - 1:06:45)
I just wanted to say that I think it was Antoine that you said, or somebody on the panel said, affordable, like what affordable is abroad. I mean, this is definitely, like I want to impress it, at least what I see at the Senior Center, it's not for lack of planning, and it's not for lack of foresight. It's just, honestly, things are expensive, and income might be here, but the cost of everything is here.

And so I think it's definitely, I love some of the commentary techniques. I feel like it kind of destigmatizes, demystifies. I mean, this is something that does affect everyone, you know, so I think it's relevant to everyone.

And I appreciate that. And I also feel like it's what we all want as social workers for people to have that growth mindset, you know, that this is, you know, having people kind of think outside of the box and think of solutions.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:46 - 1:07:36)
On that note, I have to say that the shared housing idea, both mindset-wise, was like, whoo, that was like, you know, definitely something really kind of new and novel. And I wish, can you share a little bit more about the benefits? I think you kind of went through the benefits pretty quickly, but, you know, some of the things you were talking about there seemed pretty powerful.

And I don't know if you have kind of a few more stories or anecdotes to talk about, like the safety thing that you talked about, or security, kind of medically, you know, there seemed to be just spiritually that you have someone, I know you can, some people can, we can get this zone where it feels as though like, oh, there's this other person that we have to talk to them. And like, we don't have our own privacy. We don't have our own space.

And we're giving up all of those things. And I'm not sure that's true. And yet I do know some of the other benefits probably are true.

So I'm just like, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:36 - 1:10:44)
Okay, well, it's easier for me to talk loudly if I'm standing up, so. About privacy, because that's, you're right, that's another big fear that people have. In most households that I know, and certainly if the household's functioning well, you make sure that everybody has their own space, and that that space belongs to that person.

And you don't, you know, if you're invited, you go in there, but otherwise you don't go in there. And that, again, before you move in with anybody, that you talk about what each person's needs are for a long time, not just, in really specifics. You know, for example, I come home at the end of work, and I really don't want to socialize then, but I'm happy to socialize on the weekend.

Or I really want, you know, to have my breakfast and not talk, so if you come into the kitchen, please don't talk to me in the morning. You know, sort of, you work out. You work out those things.

So that it's certainly not as private as living in your own individual unit. But it's not the case that you don't have privacy. It's just a different type of privacy, a different way of doing it.

And, you know, those are one of the things we encourage people to think about is, you know, what space would they, in their home, would they be willing to share? Or if they're a home seeker, you know, what amount of space would they want to be able to use? You know, would it be okay to share a bathroom with somebody, or is that like, no way?

You know, for many people, it's no way. So, okay, so you have a house with two bathrooms, you happen to have two people. So that's about the privacy.

The benefits, there's a couple of quotations. I love this one. This is from Kirby Dunn, who is the director of Home Share Vermont.

And that's a very successful home share program. What they do is they help people match themselves up. People who have a home and are looking for somebody to live there, and people who are looking to live somewhere and don't have a home that they own.

And she says, we've done the surveys. People say they're happier sleeping and eating better and feeling safer in their homes with someone around. If I sold you that as a drug, you'd pay thousands.

I like that. So, you know, one thing I wish that we had, which we don't, we did this when I, years ago I taught a workshop for women in midlife, co-taught a workshop for women in midlife who were interested in this idea. And we actually would bring them to the home of two people who were sharing so that they could like see it in action.

That's a little, that's something that sharing housing, I think we really ought to think about doing, because it's not until you kind of hear from people that it really, that's one way of it really sinking in. So let's see, you're asking about benefits. Am I answering your question?

[Speaker 3] (1:10:44 - 1:10:49)
Yeah, I think so. But more importantly, others, any other questions? Yes, please.

[Speaker 10] (1:10:49 - 1:11:29)
Not too personal, but just so that I can envision what your house looks like. Oh, you can get as personal as you want. Is it most of the people who have heard of yours, or are there, you mentioned that you can get the younger person, because I know a friend that always rents a room to a San Juan College student.

And it's because she has two boys about that age, they're at college, you know, they're all in college. So she likes having that age group and that difference. But in your house, is it only your two-year-olds or?

[Speaker 1] (1:11:30 - 1:12:10)
No, actually, our house is, there's, half of us are over 50, and the other one are in their 20s and 30s. I was referring to the other sister, but they have one opening. And we've always had quite a wide intergenerational house, which is very lovely for me.

I don't have children. So, you know, this is one way of me keeping in touch with sort of what's going on outside. And I was, you know, kind of half joking when I said that about the AC, but it is true.

So, was that your main question, about age?

[Speaker 10] (1:12:11 - 1:12:16)
Yeah, no, that's kind of how we do it. Yeah. So you did not get kids for the AC?

[Speaker 1] (1:12:18 - 1:14:01)
Not in my house, but again, one could do what one wanted. You know, there are kids, like those three women, who's, you know, we wrote the book. My house, my house, our house, we're all about the same age.

But it's a matter of preference. When I moved into the house that I live in now, I was about, I was 29, and the oldest person was 50. So I've been living there now for 40 years.

Wow. And before that, I lived in other relations. So I've experienced it both from the younger Randanda, the older one.

And I've also experienced it, but when I moved in, somebody else owned the house. And he later moved out, and didn't want to be an absentee landlord. So there were four of us at the time that wanted to stay in the house, and he joined, we bought the house from him.

So that we wouldn't have to move, basically. We bought the house we already lived in, which is nice. And then two of those people moved out, so now it's me and my spouse, we own the house together.

So I've, you know, I've experienced this from a lot of different ways. And again, you know, my sort of message is that, um, this is a very personal decision, who you're going to live with. And different things work for different people.

And Ms. Manners once wrote that, every woman who's ever in rent war and can't be helped knows it's always a lie to say that one size fits all. And it's true of just about everything in our life. Does that answer your question?

[Speaker 10] (1:14:04 - 1:14:05)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:08 - 1:15:29)
And, you know, our house, so just to go back to the question of affordability and so forth, that, you know, our housing stock doesn't necessarily fit the changes that happen in our population. And being open to sharing is one way of making use of what we have. So that it has another way of, you know, Victorian is a nine bedroom house.

You know, not very many modern American families would want a nine bedroom house, but it works great for us. So similarly, you know, people who are raising children and, you know, if you have like two adults and a bunch of kids in a house and you've got a five bedroom house, well, great. But, you know, if you're living alone or you have a higher population living alone, right?

Then all that housing stock no longer is fitting the population. So this is one way of trying to adjust so that we can have a different way of using that same housing stock. Or, you know, again, I mean, other ways that people do this, or they put up, you know, they break up the house into two, like Anton said, or they put in an accessory dwelling unit.

I mean, all of these options are things that people can think about. And, you know, it's scary, but also kind of exciting.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:31 - 1:15:31)
Heidi?

[Speaker 2] (1:15:38 - 1:16:36)
Yeah, we've heard of Nestle. It's a similar home sharing program where I think Boston at one point piloted the initiative in the city where they paired older adults who had space available with college students, university students, and similar model, similar makeup. I think I've seen it in a few other communities, maybe Framingham as well.

I mean, it's another house, it's another option, right? I think communities who are able to bring it in, I think it is oftentimes led by municipalities in many cases. So, because there is a, I guess, a fee for managing the platform itself and whatever the technical support that comes along with it.

But it's also great to hear about local organizations who are doing that same thing, who may be making it a little more affordable for communities, or broadens the opportunity for local organizations to help lead it. I think it happens.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:37 - 1:16:41)
There's local organizations. Do you know more about it than that, Heidi, that you want to share? Or Sabrina, or?

[Speaker 11] (1:16:42 - 1:17:26)
I just want to say that I know with the Nesterly model, you, with the Nesterly model, the money's taken out of the picture. So, if you're a homeowner and you have a student come live with you, the negotiation goes on with Nesterly. And so, you as the homeowner don't have to get uncomfortable if the rent isn't being paid.

It goes through the Nesterly. And they're the ones that vet everybody and make sure everyone's safe. It's kind of an interesting model.

But frankly, we did invite them tonight. And unfortunately, they were not able to be here. And I'm not sure what's actually happening with the organization.

But I think it's a wonderful model that we could continue to explore.

[Speaker 15] (1:17:26 - 1:17:27)
Definitely. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:17:29 - 1:17:35)
But it makes me wonder about whether or not that's some type of platform for the community board, in a way.

[Speaker 5] (1:17:36 - 1:17:50)
Well, my question would be, I know you had mentioned that there wasn't an organization in Sloanstown that supported shared housing that you recommended that we get one. So, I'm wondering, did your organization help communities start this? Or is there an online toolbook?

[Speaker 1] (1:17:51 - 1:18:45)
You know, there is a group called the National Shared Housing Resource Center. It's very small and not very organized right now. But many of the organizations that belong to that are home.

Okay, so just to back up a little bit, HomeShare is the term that's often used for these organizations that match up, you know, like one person with a house with one person who's looking, or maybe two people or whatever, that kind of smaller thing. And those groups are generally pretty interested in helping the others. I would even just contact HomeShare Vermont and see what they do.

There's also, for example, okay, so I bought this. This is from a HomeShare organization in California from many, many years ago. And they had this whole manual, and, you know, which they were selling, and, you know, to sort of make it possible to jumpstart other organizations.

[Speaker 5] (1:18:45 - 1:18:50)
And are these groups that function kind of like a C++ village? Are these sort of like a local non-profit that?

[Speaker 1] (1:18:51 - 1:19:49)
Yeah, they don't function like C++ village. They're matching organizations. I see, okay.

That help people find home-mates. And that's a specific niche. We need one in the Boston area, and we don't have one, and that's a crime, really.

Because those overhead is very low. When you think about it, this way of increasing affordable housing, we have to build something. You need a couple of staff people, and a little office, and a budget for computers, you know, networking.

That's all you need. And then you get, you can match people. And, you know, it's, again, it's not gonna help everybody.

But all of these things, I mean, you know, all of these options that we're talking about are all things that, you know, people should consider, not necessarily just one, but, you know, I mean, so I live with a housemate, and I belong to C++ village. And I modify my house, and I belong to C++ village. And I go to the community a little more to find a new housemate, and to find somebody to help drive me, or, you know, whatever.

[Speaker 3] (1:19:50 - 1:20:07)
Well, I think that's a perfect summarization of tonight, landing us right at eight o'clock. Thank you very much to Antoine, Joanne, Sabrina, and Izzy. Thank you all very much.

And I'm sure if people have a couple extra questions afterward, I imagine people will be happy to answer them.

[Speaker 15] (1:20:08 - 1:20:08)
Thank you.