[Speaker 2] (0:42 - 0:48)
I'm going to give you a little bit of background on what I'm going to be talking about today.

[Speaker 3] (0:48 - 1:04)
Okay, we're going to get going here. Welcome to the March 26th select board meeting. If you could all stand and join me in the pledge.

And we are being recorded. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

[Speaker 4] (1:05 - 1:12)
And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[Speaker 3] (1:17 - 1:56)
Okay, before we start, I just want to thank Nate Beischeim, Paul Ravonis, and Emilia Rodriguez, and Joe Doulet for bringing us the select board meeting tonight to the town of Swampscott and elsewhere. And so the first on our agenda, we're going to start with public comment. Public comment is open to anyone who would like to make any comments whatsoever.

The select board does not respond to your public comment. But please just stand up and say your name and your address and whatever it is you'd like to say. So do we have people here for public comment?

Ms. Billings?

[Speaker 11] (1:58 - 4:45)
I live at 15 Laurel Road. And I've written to everybody on more than one occasion about more than one thing. Because I'm interested as a new person to find out what's going on.

But tonight, and I want to thank you all. I know you're all volunteers. And that's a huge deal that you're doing this.

But tonight, I'm here as a retired person on a fixed income. Very concerned about a proposal I read about online about big tax increase two years in a row. I'm very upset about this.

My husband and I, as I said, are on fixed incomes. We believe in Proposition 2.5. It's the law. I know that there have been creative bookkeeping explanations for how these big tax increases could happen.

But I think that it's incumbent on all of you to not find creative solutions to raise my taxes. And everybody's taxes. So much that I'm not sure how people are going to swing it.

Right now with what's going on with huge layoffs, tens of thousands of people around here. Not just federal, but in higher education there are layoffs. Mass general, there are major layoffs.

Probably many Swampskate citizens are dealing with this. And to be faced with a huge tax increase is not something we can do. It feels as if since we've been here for three years there's been a lot of almost a spending spree.

I've been alarmed. All beautiful things. The Hawthorne, beautiful, beautiful.

The open space near Lynn. We have the lovely new elementary school right behind my house. It's a beautiful place and my granddaughter loves it.

But there reaches a point when I've heard other citizens say we deserve these things. And I feel like what I deserve is to be able to stay here and afford to pay my taxes. I'm sure that I'm not the only one in Swampskate that feels this way.

So I'm asking you to keep in mind that if you have to sell something you bought, maybe you'll have to sell something. And have that money to not have the taxes go so high. And I thank you for listening and I hope you do it.

[Speaker 3] (4:45 - 4:55)
Thank you, Sheila Ellings. Do we have anyone else here for a public comment? We're going to have the gentleman in the back first.

Yeah.

[Speaker 12] (5:05 - 7:17)
Eric Schneider, 480 Peirton Road. Speaking, I guess as a citizen today I'm also a member of the finance committee and school building committee. And I guess it's appropriate that I'm following up on Sheila because I wanted to talk about revenue and the long-term plan.

And I think there needs to be one because as we're seeing there's a lot of expenses increasing. I think over 80% of our budget is financed from residential taxes. And in that same order of 80% of our budget is paid to employees either for salaries or wages or benefits or retirements if you lump it all together.

And obviously everyone's facing inflationary pressures. Everyone wants to earn more. But the money has to come from somewhere.

So either we have to have a plan to grow our tax base. And if we don't do that then we have to increase our taxes. Or some sort of mix in between.

And if we don't do either of those then we have to cut services. And it's a hard choice. This year's a hard budget.

It looks like next year's going to be a hard one and thereafter. So, you know, we want to be deliberate and intentional. And I think we have to think about what's the level of growth that this town wants.

And if we want and what does that mean for increasing taxes as sort of the flip side. Or you could ask the question the other way. How much tax increase are we willing to take?

And what level of growth in town do we have to encourage, right? And how can we speed things up? You know, we had plans in 2022 for the Glover site.

And three years later nothing's happened. You know, if something had been built then, you know, we might look better this year. Because we would have more revenue.

So, you guys are the leaders of the town. You make, you know, finance committee reviews the expenses and the budget. But you make the policy and you lead the town.

So, please come together and lead the town for, you know, a bright future. Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (7:20 - 7:58)
Thank you, Eric. Eric, does the young lady next to you want to get up for public comment too? You sure?

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Is there anybody else for a public comment? So, our last person I know is getting up for public comment is a very special resident. This is Carol Schutzer.

And the reason why Carol is very special to us on the board is Carol is a member of the select board. Was a member of the select board. And Carol was the first chairwoman of the select board.

So, Carol, it's exciting to have you here and to talk about something really exciting too.

[Speaker 9] (8:02 - 11:53)
It is a little different in this room than we used to meet at town hall. But it's nice to be back in government a little bit. So, I admire all the work that all of you do and thank you.

Good evening. I'm Carol Schutzer, 1 Salem Street. Thank you all for the opportunity to introduce the town to an important community event.

It's this Saturday night, March 29th at 7 p.m. at the high school. And as many of you know, there is currently an effort underway to establish an electronic, independent, nonprofit newspaper called the Swampscot Tides, focusing on all Swampscot news. For example, knowing how our little league teams are doing, the play that the high school drama club is producing, the summer concert series dates and so much more.

Sheila, a new resident, just says to me how she's supposed to figure out what's happening in town. And hopefully our newspaper will help her. This Saturday we're hosting a fundraiser called Fish Tales.

This is what the program, hot off the press today. Storytelling from the big blue, bringing together various local voices to share personal stories in a format inspired by the popular weekly podcast and national public radio show, The Moth. There will be many local celebs in town, including Kim Kerrigan as our evening emcee.

Storytellers will share unrehearsed personal narratives without notes. Clearly way better than what I'm doing right now. Fish Tales is an immersive experience centered on storytelling that will bring the community together to embrace the importance of independent news and the power of great stories.

The lineup for the evening includes Anne Driscoll. She's the president of the Tides. She's a former writer for the New York Times, the Boston Globe, and People Magazine.

John Ingalls, a lifelong resident of Swampscot, family roots dating back four centuries, chef and owner of Palmer's Restaurant. Mike Lynch, former principal sports anchor at WCVB-TV in Boston. Lynch grew up in Swampscot and played football for Harvard.

Enzo Silonzurin, our poet laureate, author, and social advocate whose work has won a prestigious Massachusetts Book Award. Leora Rogozin, a Swampscot high school senior who was president of the French Club, co-president of Model UN, and a senior class vice president. And Misha Trubnikov, a Jewish-Ukrainian immigrant raised in Swampscot who discovered his voice through humor and performance.

And to add to all these festivities at intermission, the Swampscot Jazz Band will perform Turtles on a String. Tickets are available at Swampscottides.org or do we have that QR code on the screen or maybe not right now? An amazing evening out right here in Swampscot for just $35 a ticket.

The community response to our independent news outlet has been heartwarming. We have raised over $125,000 in six months, obtaining nonprofit status as well as establishing an all-volunteer board of directors and various committees to ensure success for Swampscot Tides. I'm looking around the room and please join us for this important community event this Saturday night.

I hope to see you all there. It's really going to be a great evening. You can buy tickets at the door if you don't have them already or you can buy them online.

We've sold a lot of tickets and it really is going to be fun and it will benefit the Tide. So it's sort of like a win-win, a fun evening out and benefiting the newspaper. So thank you very much.

[Speaker 3] (11:54 - 12:08)
Thank you, Carol. Okay, do we have any more resident comments? Nobody on the screen?

Okay, so we will move to the town administrator's report.

[Speaker 5] (12:10 - 18:19)
I am pleased to offer the following reports, programs, and initiatives that are ongoing in the town of Swampscot as well as some updates on a variety of things that have happened since my last report. Town administrator Mary Ann and I met with Rich Baldacci last week. It's going to be my recommendation to bring Rich back to the building department as a building commissioner beginning on April 7th.

As many are aware, Rich worked for the town from 2011 to 2015 and then again from 2020 to 2022. For the past three years, Rich has been the chief of inspections of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Now having fixed what he has deemed a broken system, Rich is free and wishes to continue working in the town that he resides in and the town he loves.

We continue to work with the Athenas family to receive permission to access the Glover House to install a support beam there. It's been a little slow with communications. Mr. Athenas isn't feeling very well, but I've been working with the attorney. I met with residents from the resident at Finnan Square. I believe Marcy did as well. We spoke with them.

We want to discuss potential opportunities for them to get more involved in our community. Very nice meeting with them. I met with the Westcrock Group to discuss plans to address the encroachment of the abutters on Elm Place.

If you drive down there now, you'll see that we've taken our man back and making some nice improvements. It wasn't easy, but if you want to address that, I can help you a little bit. I met with Ann Martin from LLC Consultants.

Ann's the engineer for the Mission on the Bay, Conservation Commission Chair. I thought I saw her earlier. Tony?

She stepped out. She was part of the meeting as well as state regulators to get an update on the Chapter 90 permanent plan to make a permanent repair to that wall. Unfortunately, bad news.

It doesn't look like that wall is going to be repaired this year, and that's totally due to all these permits and permissions we have to get from the state. It's too bad. Public Works.

I attended a Kings Beach Steering Committee meeting to discuss ongoing IDE work at the Town of Swampskip and the City of Lynn. The committee reconvened after a couple of months of inactivity. Staff members from Senator Creighton and Representative Armini's office also attend these meetings.

I was a panelist a week ago Tuesday at Lynn City Hall on a forum hosted by Mayor Nicholson to discuss the UV Pilot Program. The meeting was well received with representatives from MassDEP, EPA, and elected officials in attendance. Approximately 50 residents attended that meeting.

As I said, it was well received. We had a follow-up meeting this Monday, past Monday, here at the Senior Center, and that was a neighborhood meeting. Mayor Nicholson was there to support us, as well as Senator Creighton, Rep.

Armini, as well as two select board members. Thank you, Katie and Ellen, for your support. A majority of the sewer main repairs has been completed as part of the Marshall Street Oak Ball Sewer Rehabilitation Project.

Spots, repairs may be necessary. Cementaceous lining of mains and laterals will be completed by the end of April. A notice to proceed was issued to National Water Main Cleaning Company to begin Phase 2A of the Kings of Staceybrook Sewer Main Rehabilitation Project.

Finance team. Amy, thank you for showing up today, finalized the financial forecast. She's working with Patrick to project increases to our water and sewer rates.

And lastly, Amy and Trang last week went out to Amherst, Mass., for a program there for finance people, I will say, because I know I was going to say finance directors, but I know Trang's not a finance director, but she's learning. Community development. Ozzie, thank you.

Community development developed a mission statement for the Hawthorne Reuse Committee with the goal of creating a vibrant, sustainable, and community-driven destination. The inaugural meeting was March 18th. It went very well.

Brian Washington was elected as chair. Joe McCarron, vice chair. And George Briones is the secretary.

A request was made to include a representative from CONCOM. He will be asked to discuss and vote on this change tonight. The next meeting is April 17th.

The Master Plan Committee had an open house, assisted by consultants from NAPC. To gather resonant comments on the town's master plan update, attendees reviewed survey responses and explored how these responses connect to existing plans. Ozzie continues to meet with the neighborhood leadership to discuss the design and permit of the Veteran Crossing project housing.

Ozzie, very instrumental, assisting the Tree Committee with acquiring a $100,000 grant from DCI for tree planting for the Cool Carters grant. It will be a kickoff meeting with the Tree Committee and the state within the next two weeks. Thank you, Ozzie.

We will be hosting a neighborhood. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be there because of prior commitments, but Ozzie, Officer Reen, others. There's going to be a meeting Thursday to address parking concerns over the Westcott property.

Westcott still will be invited to attend and update the town and neighbors about their parking plans. A lot of concerns about parking, Burpee Road, Essex Street, Hillcrest Circle. So we hope to address a lot of those concerns.

Thank you. Facilities. Continued town hall roof repair.

You've probably seen the crane in the parking lot. Repairs are going very well. Don't seem to have as many leaks on these rainy days, so that's good news.

Max met with HDC about the library entry project and finally completed the new dishwasher project at the Senior Center.

[Speaker 13] (18:20 - 18:20)
Whoa.

[Speaker 5] (18:21 - 23:05)
It's great. To Max's credit, it was a lot more than just installing a regular. This is a commercial dishwasher that needed quite a bit of work, and kudos to Max.

Town clerk is continuing working on the 2024 annual report. He's also proofreading and finalizing ballots for the upcoming local election. Police department met with Caroline Craig with Make-A-Wish Foundation to connect our communities, both Model Hood and Swampscott, to organize a run-walk fundraising program for children facing critical and fatal illnesses.

Chief coordinated initiation of police hiring and finalization of the PES contract. We're looking to hire. We have three vacancies in the police department, so we're hoping to begin that process to cut down some OT.

Chief met with staff regarding the opening, recruiting, and hiring. We have 10 lateral certified officers to be abused and 25 to 30 recruit applicants on the list. Fire department, Graham received delivery of a new atmospheric monitoring equipment for all apparatus.

This equipment is used to detect the presence of levels of carbon monoxide, natural gas, or propane and other hazardous gases within structures. Health department continues to manage, coordinate, and work on programs and initiatives related to the opioid settlement funds, and Jeff continues to work on supplying NALOX boxes for municipal buildings. Human resources, Mary Ann, thank you for coming.

Mary Ann has finalized the employee handbook with KP Law. This will be presented tonight, along with the stand-alone policies suggested by both KP Law and the town's risk management insurance. Mary Ann continues to meet with Ready Set.

The community jam session will be held on Monday, April 7th, at the library. Group meetings are also being scheduled or have been scheduled with the fire department, DPW, and library. I know DPW met with them on Tuesday.

Recreation, Danielle's working with organizers in planning our annual summer events, including Fenton Water on the Beach, Harbor Memorial Festival, Strawberry Festival, Pride Day in Juneteenth. Danielle met with the school METCO directors to make plans for the Heritage Festival in our Juneteenth event. She has added three new programs, Mother's Day Jewelry Making, Pre-K Park League, and Swanscript Nature Summer Programs.

Danielle was also able to secure a lifeguard chair, which went missing, with the help of Jenny Amini. The annual golf tournament is May 12th at Tedesco. Register online on Recreation's landing page on the town's website.

That's always a fun event, right? Mary Ann, going this year? No?

Ozzie? Okay. I'm going to go, not that that matters, but we have fun.

It's a great event. It goes to a good cause, the fireworks. Senior Center held a successful retirement conference this past Saturday, March 22nd.

Heidi is working to increase housing assistance for individuals in search of affordable housing, and she's collaborating with the health department in the creation of a group therapy and support group through a grant with, and still we rise, a behavioral health care provider. Library, Jonathan is planning the annual fundraiser with a friends group. Jonathan attended and presented at the Swanscript Historic District Commission meeting regarding the proposed library renovation project.

He met with Mac to discuss the next steps. I know there's some concern about the big oak tree out front, but I believe we have a plan to preserve that tree. The library, Jonathan worked with Sheila Duns on the new murals for the library, finalizing designs, colors, and placement.

I hope it comes out as good as some of our control boxes in town. You've done a phenomenal job with those. Thank you.

Peg, is he up there? Joe? Started conversations with KP Law regarding the upcoming Comcast contract renewal.

We're hoping to increase our subscriber fees to help supplement our dwindling budget, operating budget. Joe's looking to install a permanent connection to the ball fields. I know I'm working with Joe on that.

We can live stream the baseball and softball games at the Forest Dept. Complex. That would be huge.

And finally, the assessor. Paul is continuing to address and correct data issues that have arisen over the years, and he's continuing on abatement inspections. That's it.

Questions?

[Speaker 3] (23:05 - 23:10)
Questions? Yeah, I've got a few.

[Speaker 7] (23:11 - 23:52)
So, Gino, I had reached out a few times. We had chatted talking about contract recommendations for staff of those whose contracts have expired or are soon to expire. You had indicated to me that you'd be making a recommendation in January of 2025.

We're sitting at the end of March. I'm concerned that we don't have that recommendation in front of us. So I would strongly recommend that that recommendation be made to the select board, and we schedule a meeting as soon as next week to potentially discuss this.

[Speaker 5] (23:52 - 23:58)
Okay. It may have to be the week after next, because I'm going to be on vacation next week. But, yep, we can do that.

[Speaker 7] (23:58 - 25:40)
Okay. Is that okay? Yeah, and just a few other things.

Just a few things that came to light just around information that's been shared with the select board or not shared in some instances. For example, there was a 40B application on which that was provided to you as well as the chair. That information needs to be disseminated to all of us and not just some of us.

So to the chair and to the town administrator, I would certainly appreciate receiving all of the information when it is made available, because right now I feel like, quite honestly, I felt like there was a 40B application that was shared with members of a partisan group prior to it being shared with the select board. And I just find that completely and utterly unacceptable, for one. Two, there was a, you know, anytime that the select board engages outside counsel, we typically take a vote to do that, and we typically take that vote in executive session.

So there was a second legal opinion. Again, this was something that was not voted on or shared with select board members literally until, you know, the 11th hour. So I'm just curious, what was the cost of that second legal opinion that we had that was printed and provided to all town meeting members, you know, right before our special town meeting last Wednesday?

Do we have a cost?

[Speaker 5] (25:41 - 25:42)
I do not have that number.

[Speaker 7] (25:43 - 25:45)
Okay. Well, can you get that to us, please?

[Speaker 5] (25:45 - 25:47)
As soon as it comes in. Okay.

[Speaker 7] (25:48 - 26:12)
I mean, again, I don't know how we're engaging outside counsel without a vote of the select board. And certainly in a very strained, I will say, year where we're talking about budgets and we're talking about potential cuts to town services and to departments, I just think we need to be mindful of every dollar that we're spending.

[Speaker 5] (26:14 - 26:17)
Fair enough. Thank you. You're welcome.

[Speaker 4] (26:19 - 26:19)
My turn?

[Speaker 5] (26:19 - 26:20)
Your turn.

[Speaker 4] (26:20 - 26:43)
Okay. I just want to highlight the, if you could just clarify again, so for your comment on the seawall repairs at Mission, I just want to highlight that the permanent repairs will not take place this year because of regulatory permitting issues and not because of any delays on our side, correct?

[Speaker 13] (26:43 - 26:44)
That I'm asking. Right.

[Speaker 4] (26:44 - 26:58)
So I know that Conservation Commission and you have been working very hard on trying to get those things moving forward. So I just wanted to highlight again that. I also had a question on the library entry project.

[Speaker 5] (26:58 - 26:58)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (26:59 - 27:09)
Where could a citizen find the project as proposed and where might they go to comment on it?

[Speaker 5] (27:10 - 27:21)
I would, I guess the answer is I don't know, but I would assume on the library webpage. I know Jonathan's been to the forefront of that, but I can find out. Make sure it's on.

No, I can circle it, Paul.

[Speaker 4] (27:21 - 28:04)
I had a gentleman reach out to me and ask what the public input process was in that and I said I don't think there has been one except I know I've gotten some feedback about the oak tree and some other things that I've shared with Jonathan, but I think some folks were sort of feeling like maybe there could be a better public engagement for that process that still fits the library's needs, but maybe just has a little public engagement involvement to it. And then I noticed in the human resource section that we have some great community groups meeting being scheduled, but I didn't see one for the police department.

Is it just not yet scheduled?

[Speaker 6] (28:04 - 28:16)
We couldn't do group meetings with the police department because of their schedules and how they don't overlap, but he wanted to do some one-on-ones with a few of the officers, so they're still working on scheduling those.

[Speaker 4] (28:16 - 28:18)
That's great news.

[Speaker 2] (28:18 - 28:38)
Okay. Thank you. Gino, I just had one question to Katie's point about the seawall.

So it can't be, it's not going to be repaired this year. It's going to be next year. But are we in danger of anything happening?

Is there any reinforcement that needs to happen, you know, this year while we're? Sure.

[Speaker 4] (28:39 - 28:41)
Margie, would you mind passing the microphone? Thank you.

[Speaker 10] (28:46 - 30:48)
That was a question I had when we met with them because if you look at the original emergency order, they said the emergency repairs would be good for a year. I asked that question. They said it was fine.

I think when we have a second conversation with LEC and Martin, I'm going to ask if they can do some checking to make sure that that is okay. The other concern that was raised is because of the Hawthorne property, whatever fix happens, we have to make sure that the Hawthorne wall is secure. As it stands, LEC had proposed two options.

One is to enlarge the revetment, in other words, put more rocks on the beach, and the other one was to create what they call a sister wall, which will be like a cement wall. We will talk some more with them. We were hoping that when we met with both LEC and Mission on the Bay and the state regulators that we would get a sense from the regulators, but they wanted more information before they say anything.

But I think at some point in the near future, perhaps, a presentation to the select board on both what the two options are and what the timeline is because they have to go through a bunch of steps, like a MEPA review, an EJ meeting, and several other things. As you may recall, we have a peer reviewer. The commission hired a peer reviewer on hold, and we have to discuss this, whether it makes sense for them to review both potentials or wait until there's a preferred option.

So there's a lot in the mix here. I'm hoping that Gino and I can talk to LEC as a follow-up to that meeting and figure out some of this and then make some sort of a presentation to the select board.

[Speaker 2] (30:49 - 30:50)
Very good. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 5] (30:51 - 30:58)
In my opinion, it's not going anywhere. When that wall collapsed, that building was built, right? It was built with gray beams and pylons.

[Speaker 2] (30:58 - 30:58)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (30:58 - 31:01)
So basically the wall rocks are there just to protect that.

[Speaker 2] (31:01 - 31:01)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (31:01 - 31:02)
We just want to make sure.

[Speaker 2] (31:02 - 31:11)
We just want to make sure, and we want to have someone look at it, considering this is, if it's not going to be fixed, we're going to be here periodically to make sure that we're not in danger of anything happening.

[Speaker 5] (31:11 - 31:14)
My big concern is they're going to think they can use this as a permanent repair.

[Speaker 2] (31:15 - 31:15)
Right.

[Speaker 10] (31:15 - 31:20)
And just a note, we're hoping it will be next year.

[Speaker 2] (31:20 - 31:22)
Right. What if it gets pushed out?

[Speaker 10] (31:22 - 31:52)
And the other thing, I don't know if you mentioned, Gino, that is a good thing is that the DEP is going to require that there be a public walkway that goes around the restaurant and a good potential then to hook up with the public way that is required on the Hawthorne property by the Warren article. So we could have one big extension.

[Speaker 3] (31:54 - 31:54)
Good.

[Speaker 13] (31:54 - 31:54)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (31:56 - 32:13)
So for my question, I had a lot of questions about that, too, but they were pretty much covered. The only other question I have pertaining to that wall is the $20,000 outstanding bill. Have we received payment on that yet?

[Speaker 5] (32:13 - 32:13)
We have not.

[Speaker 3] (32:14 - 32:18)
Have we been invoicing? What have we been doing with that?

[Speaker 5] (32:18 - 32:21)
It was invoiced. It was? Okay.

[Speaker 3] (32:21 - 32:32)
It was invoiced? I didn't even know where it was. So how long is it?

I have a follow-up question. Okay. So when did that wall come down, fall down?

It was two years ago?

[Speaker 5] (32:32 - 32:33)
Two years ago, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (32:33 - 33:05)
So we would have invoiced it. It's been invoiced probably now for like 20 months, 24 months, and so that means there's an outstanding bill, and we continue to give liquor licenses when there's an outstanding bill. So maybe we can find out what the story is there.

On the neighborhood meeting that you had, there was a question about the possibility of getting electricity in there. Are we going to have any shot at that?

[Speaker 5] (33:06 - 33:06)
Zero.

[Speaker 3] (33:06 - 33:07)
Zero.

[Speaker 5] (33:07 - 33:13)
Yeah. That's no good. You'll never be able to get power there and the way to work.

I'm just being honest. I know.

[Speaker 3] (33:14 - 33:18)
Well, I appreciate that, but it seemed like at that meeting that perhaps.

[Speaker 5] (33:19 - 33:20)
They're going to look into it.

[Speaker 3] (33:20 - 33:21)
Right, so.

[Speaker 5] (33:21 - 33:37)
I'm telling you the likelihood. Look how long we've been waiting for them to get over to the elementary school. The national grid is painfully slow.

Okay. Mike Donovan, the inspectional services director, who's worked with them for years. It's just tough to deal with.

[Speaker 2] (33:37 - 33:38)
What are we trying to get electricity?

[Speaker 5] (33:39 - 33:40)
So we don't have to run a generator.

[Speaker 3] (33:41 - 33:45)
This way we don't have to run the diesel. 24 hours.

[Speaker 5] (33:48 - 33:53)
At least with the diesel, we saw one of the generators say, they are quiet, but my concern is not that noise.

[Speaker 3] (33:53 - 33:54)
Environmental.

[Speaker 5] (33:54 - 33:55)
Yeah, the fuels, exactly.

[Speaker 3] (33:57 - 34:30)
My next question is on the police. So months and months and months ago, we had both the police chiefs here, and we discussed the need for hiring. And so here we are on the verge of April, and it just seems like it takes so long, and I just want to, what is the actual timeline of having a police officer in the academy?

Now it's different for fire, because fire can hire and put them right there and start working with them. With police, what are we looking at here?

[Speaker 5] (34:30 - 34:41)
I guess it depends. What I just saw here in part of the report is that there is 10 lateral certified candidates. If we hire three of those, then it's quick.

[Speaker 3] (34:41 - 34:48)
So if we have three candidates, when are they being interviewed? What is the process here?

[Speaker 6] (34:48 - 35:04)
To my knowledge, it is they go through a whole vetting at the police station. They do all sorts of background checks. They do all of that themselves first, and it takes weeks.

They have not told me they're ready for me to talk to anybody or speak to anybody.

[Speaker 3] (35:05 - 35:25)
I can get a timeline for you, and I will, though. So can you get a timeline? And then if you have actual laterals that can move over, I would think that within that timeline, they could be presented in front of the town administrator very quickly so that we prevent our overtime numbers going through the roof.

Absolutely.

[Speaker 5] (35:27 - 35:34)
I know I was part of the last one when they had the oral board, but you still have to follow that process.

[Speaker 3] (35:35 - 35:38)
Whatever the process is, I just want to...

[Speaker 5] (35:38 - 35:54)
Part of the delay was once we initiated the spending freeze, I kind of overrode that because I told him he could spend the money to start the hiring process because I thought the money that we were going to spend in that process was going to outweigh what we're paying in overtime right now.

[Speaker 2] (35:55 - 35:59)
So we instituted a hiring freeze that stopped them from doing background checks?

[Speaker 5] (35:59 - 36:00)
Not necessarily.

[Speaker 2] (36:00 - 36:01)
What was it that it prevented?

[Speaker 5] (36:01 - 36:02)
The hiring process.

[Speaker 2] (36:02 - 36:05)
The actual hiring process. Okay. So they stopped because of the freeze.

[Speaker 5] (36:06 - 36:06)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (36:06 - 36:48)
Right. So that's probably part of what the delay is. Right.

So now they've resumed because you overrode the freeze, right? Right. Okay.

And what is the... So maybe we should... It would be nice if the chief or someone could provide us with a flow chart and understand what their process is.

I know there's manuals and all kinds of... I think I've asked for it before, and it's a pretty extensive manual. Just a one-sheet, quick, this is what the process is.

This is our timeline. If they could present it to us so we at least have a clue. I would like to know if it's by committee or what the next step is, what their levels are.

So is that something maybe you could get, Mary? Absolutely. Yes.

[Speaker 3] (36:48 - 37:32)
I would think when you're hiring laterals, the expense is a lot less. So hiring non-laterals would be pretty different because you've got to go through the academy and et cetera. But I would think laterals, it's...

You know what, let's find out from them. I just want a date. I want to stop talking about it.

And then under recreation, is there... We have that big, beautiful screen. And I just want to know if we can maximize how that screen is being used, just get it out there.

It seems like it's a great asset for the town, costs a lot of money. And if we could really get it out there and using it, we could have a plan.

[Speaker 2] (37:33 - 37:36)
Are they renting it out? I heard at one point they were going to.

[Speaker 5] (37:36 - 37:39)
Is that not happening now? I don't know if I'd support that.

[Speaker 3] (37:40 - 37:42)
It was originally discussed.

[Speaker 4] (37:42 - 37:43)
I remember hearing it.

[Speaker 3] (37:43 - 37:44)
It was discussed.

[Speaker 4] (37:44 - 38:01)
Maybe that would be an option to help offset the cost. But Danielle, I think it was just decided from a liability perspective that maybe it was better if we didn't do that. And we started programming it a little bit before we thought about doing that.

[Speaker 5] (38:02 - 38:07)
Part of the issue is to the weather. When's the Kentucky Derby?

[Speaker 7] (38:08 - 38:24)
May. The Kentucky Derby is actually May 3rd. So there is a Derby Day event that is in the works.

It will be some good use of the screen on May 3rd. I'm looking forward to that.

[Speaker 3] (38:25 - 38:36)
Okay. So we can move on now to the presentation and discussion of the hazard mitigation plan.

[Speaker 1] (38:38 - 59:10)
Thank you very much. My name is Martin Pillsbury. I'm the Director of Environmental Planning at the Metropolitan Area Planning Council, MAPC, which is the regional planning council to which Swanscot and 100 other towns and cities in the region belong to.

And we have been working with Swanscot and several other towns to help develop your natural hazards mitigation plan. And I have a slide presentation, which I will ask if we can put that up, to give an overview of where we are sort of midway in the planning process for this plan. Very good.

So we can, I guess, I guess if I, should I ask you to advance the slides? Yes. Since you have your hand on the lever.

So once we get it up to the, yeah. So, yeah, you can go on from the title slide. And I want to just begin with a brief introduction of what is hazard mitigation, because most folks in town know what a master plan is, a comprehensive plan, an open space and recreation plan.

A hazard mitigation plan is another species of plan. It's not as common, not exactly a household word. You don't do it all the time.

The last one you did was in 2016, and we're updating it. So let's talk a little bit about what the genesis of this kind of a plan is, and if you could advance the slide there. So why is Swanson doing this plan?

This is actually under a national program that's run by FEMA overall, and then within Massachusetts it's run by MEMA, the Mass Emergency Management Agency. The goal of FEMA, through a law that was passed back in the year 2000, Disaster Mitigation Act, is to actually have every municipality in the entire country, or every county and every state, develop a hazards mitigation plan for natural hazards. Now, I will say it's not a mandate.

You don't have to have one of these plans. There's no fine or penalty if you don't have one. But there is a pretty big incentive.

FEMA gives out some pretty big grants to build projects, and they condition eligibility for those grants on having an approved plan. So it's more of a carrot than a stick approach, and the plans need to be periodically updated, so we're in the process right now of updating the previous plan the town put in place. And once this plan is approved, finished and approved, which will be in a matter of the middle of a few more months this year, you'll be eligible as a town to apply for a series of grants that MEMA has available.

One of them is called the Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities, or BRIC grant. Another is called the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, and a third category is the Flood Mitigation Assistance Program. So all three of those grants can have some pretty significant dollars, projects that communities apply for are anywhere from $25,000 to $50,000 to $500,000 to in the millions.

So they are very competitive. There's no guarantee just because you have an approved plan you're going to get every grant you apply for, but you can't even apply for them unless you have an approved plan. That's your ticket into the grant world.

And so that's one of the goals. And I'll step back and say that's an incentive and that's good to pay attention to, but hopefully doing this kind of a plan and assessing what your risks are and what actions you can take is of value in and of itself for the community, just the way your other plans are of value for the things they deal with, your open space plan, your comprehensive plan. And on the right side of that slide is just the cover from the previous plan that we did.

MAPC worked on your previous plan as well, and that is now nine years old. So what we do is we take all the information that's in this previous plan and we bring it up to date. We fast forward everything a decade.

And if you go to the next slide, please. How do we do that? So the planning process.

And, look, this is a kind of a set of hazards on the right you see on the blue slide here. It's a natural hazards mitigation plan. FEMA has a lot of plans, and not to be confused with anything to do with homeland security, not to be confused with anything to do with, say, chemical spills, man-made hazards, nuclear radiation.

These are all natural hazards, but it's every category of natural hazard that could be experienced in your community. Flooding is always at the top of the list, and especially in a coastal community. High wind events from hurricanes and nor'easters, winter hazards, even geologic hazards, hazards that are less likely to happen, but the probability is not zero.

So all categories of natural hazards are addressed in this plan. The goal in the green box on the slide here of mitigation as a whole is to reduce the impacts of natural hazards on your community through strategies. They include a range of things, different kinds of local projects, different programs you have, and policies you put in place through your regulations and laws.

So it's a multi-pronged approach. It's not just one magic bullet to give you hazard mitigation, which is why we have a multidisciplinary team working on it from the various departments in the town. The lower left of this slide kind of gives you the basic questions we ask when we start doing this plan.

We want to get an idea of what preventative actions are already being taken, because you've been dealing as a town with most of these hazards for a long time. It's not as if you're starting from scratch, from zero. We want to take assessment of what you have in place already, so then we can go from there and ask what additional actions could be taken, where are the gaps or where are the measures that are maybe out of date and could be modernized or could be added to.

So that's kind of the basic thrust of doing a plan of this sort. If you could just move on to the next slide. This is one of the slides that sort of populates itself.

It's trying to show FEMA's idea of they're trying through this kind of preventative planning to slow down or reduce this cycle of rebuild disaster, rebuild disaster, which they've seen probably more severely in other places than Swampscott. But as close by as Hull, some of our communities have hundreds of homes that have gone through multiple flood events in just the past few decades. So it's really an approach that tries to take a preventative approach.

Another term they use for this planning is pre-disaster mitigation. You already had in place post-disaster recovery. FEMA's been doing that for decades.

What was new about this program is thinking about what happens before the disaster strikes that can make the community more resilient and less vulnerable to the impacts of the hazards. Go ahead and move, please. So when we say hazard mitigation, it's not one thing.

I hinted at that before. It's kind of like a suite of different approaches and techniques that you want to choose the right tool for the right job. So if you're dealing with flooding, you're dealing with high winds, you're dealing with earthquakes, it's going to be different tools you're going to use for each of those kinds of hazards.

In general, these are some of the sort of overarching categories of types of measures that we look at. Preventative measures, which can be things like thinking about zoning, so the land use that you do, the development you do is you're aware of where hazards are, and you keep out of harm's way as much as you can. Property protection, acknowledging that we have a lot of properties that have been built up over the decades, over the centuries in New England, many of which we now know to be in hazard zones that may not have even been known about in decades past, and what can we do to coexist with keeping the existing development and existing buildings in place.

Sometimes that means elevating buildings or elevating utilities and storm protection on buildings and that sort of thing. Public education and outreach, it's not all just about building and physical capacity, it's also about making the public more aware of what these hazards are and what they can do on their own properties, whether it's residences, small businesses, et cetera, to be more resilient themselves. Protecting natural resources, and that's where we look at protecting the floodplains, protecting the wetlands that act as the buffers, and I like to say letting Mother Nature do as much of the work for us as we can.

By the way, we manage those resources. Structural projects, and that's where we get into, once we already find that we have drainage problems, that we have coastal resilience issues and old infrastructure, a lot of that, you know, the only way to really address it is so often to replace, to upgrade some of that infrastructure. So there's where some of the big-ticket infrastructure-type projects might come into play in certain sites within a community, and that's also where some of those FEMA grants can help in some cases.

And finally, emergency services protection. What that is about is making sure that the facilities and the structures that your own emergency management folks, fire, police, and even, like, public works, everything they would rely on to respond is itself hardened and as protected as it can be because you want the last thing you want for that to go out, and then they can't help anyone else in the community. So those are just sort of a short list of the kinds of things we think about when we think about mitigation measures.

And you'll see later on the mitigation measures that are recommended in the plan fall into different categories of this sort. Go ahead and move this slide. So in more recent years, we've been thinking more, there's more and more information available to us about the trends in climate change, increasing temperatures, increasing sea level rises, storm surges, et cetera.

So we're also looking at how all these hazards that we're thinking about in a hazard mitigation plan or many of them anyway, are also the same hazards that are often looked at through the lens of climate change resilience. And so we're looking at where we can find sort of commonality between those features. This is not a full-fledged climate resilience plan per se, but it is taking that information into account.

We're building climate information that's available from the state's models, from the sea level models, et cetera, into this plan. So that can be part of informing your thinking for the mitigation measures you're going to have. Go on to the next one.

So the planning process to build this plan. Go ahead. That's just the title slide, sorry.

And so first of all, I want to start out by saying you have a local hazard mitigation team. We have Margie right here who's been shepherding that team. Thank you very much to all the team.

And you can see it really is composed of multiple departments in the town because this is a multifaceted type of problem, and it requires different aspects of different boards and commissions and departments to have their part in it in terms of the information they can share that go into the plan from their various perspectives and then in terms of their perspective for what kind of measures you want to recommend in this plan.

The local team's role is we have scheduled a series of four meetings, which we hold three of the four meetings, so we're kind of well midway into the process here. We have reviewed the mitigation goals from the previous plan and updated them. We're working with the local knowledge of the team who know what's going on on the ground, like where are the drainage issues, where are the concerns along the coast, with the fire department, where are the issues, where there might be brush fire, wildfire issues, et cetera.

Every single category has someone whose eyes are on that in a different department who knows that that's their area of expertise. And so we're reviewing what the updated mitigation actions need to be, and that's going to be our next step in the process. That's the role for me.

So without this team, you really wouldn't have a plan, and I really want to say kudos to the team, the three meetings we've had already. They've really been very, very forthcoming in bringing information together and being very helpful. Go on to the next slide.

This is just one of those flow charts that talks about the overall process in developing the plan. From the left to the right, it's kind of like a timeline, and the green star is where we are now, holding a first public meeting. What's happened before, as I mentioned, team number one, two, and three, have met since starting from late last summer, and we began work on assessing risks that will go into the plan.

What's left to do after this meeting today is to hold the fourth and final team meeting, which we'll do in another month or so, and review the actual mitigation strategy that will be recommended in the new plan, have that team put their eyes on it and say that looks good and endorse that's what should go into the plan. From that, we'll have all the information we need to complete a draft plan, and then we'll bring that draft plan to a second public meeting, probably about June, that will then give a chance for the broader public to be aware of exactly what's in the plan and have a comment on it. At that point, we'll have the draft plan posted online, so anyone who actually wants to look at the actual plan can do so, and people can give us broad general comments or they can read the plan and give us specific comments, whatever the case may be.

So that's what will be coming. Today's public meeting is more for information purposes, to let folks know that we're working on this and the town is working on this and that this is coming and this will be a next step when there will be an opportunity for that kind of input. Once the second public meeting is held and we get any comments that might go into the plan, then the draft plan will be submitted to MEMA and to FEMA, which they have to review these plans before they're considered to be approved.

They review them and they often give us comments or require revisions, so we just do what they ask. That can take a little bit longer, but then once that's done, the approvable plan will actually come back to this ward for an actual vote of adoption at the point after FEMA's reviewed it and approved it. So that will be like the icing on the cake, the final plan approved by FEMA and then adopted by the town officially.

So you can expect to see that probably in the late summer, early fall, because it takes a few months for the MEMA and FEMA review to go on. Next slide, please. A little bit more about what are the hazards and vulnerabilities.

You can go ahead. So I know you can't see this at this scale, but this is an example of one of the maps that's in the plan. There's a whole series of about a dozen maps in the plan that look at different hazards and the land use patterns, and this one shows actually what you see on the left listed here, critical facilities that the local team has identified.

In fact, there's a long list of 76 of them. All of them, I know you can't see it visually at this scale, but they're all on that map. There's little green dots, and each one of those has a number by it, and that number is correlated back to a database of what all the critical facilities are.

There's also locally identified hazard areas that are on the map. There are eight locally identified flood areas, flood and drainage areas, and there are four locally identified brush fire areas. You kind of see the red polygons.

Those are in the brush fire areas. The fire chief has identified around the kind of open lands and vegetated lands. It's not saying that you have brush fires there all the time, but those are the kind of lands that have the conditions potentially, especially if there's a drought, for instance, that might be more prone to that kind of hazard.

And in the drought that we had last year and the fires we had right around here, Salem and Lynn, it's an issue that people are actually taking a little more seriously in this year than they have in some of the past times. So this is how the data is assembled and put into a GIS mapping system. And by the way, once that's in the GIS map layer, the town will also be able to take that layer and use it against other plans, like the master plan and any other plans, EPW plans.

So hopefully this will find other utility as well, to have that kind of information all pulled together under one roof. Go on to the next slide, please. So flooding is the big issue that is like the longest list of concerns, but there are other hazards that we do look at.

Examples that you see here, extreme heat, wildfires, earthquakes, droughts, and extreme precipitation, for instance. And there's data about those hazards, sort of starting with regional and state trends, and then to the extent that we can get local or county-level information a little more specific, we add that in there to talk about all these different categories of natural hazards. And one more slide here on this.

We can't leave natural hazards in this part of the country without mentioning Nor'easters, one of our sort of signature kinds of natural hazards we have around here. And actually we can probably update this list because we put this together and there's been a few more even since then. I mean, we get these periodically.

Some of them are more obviously serious than others. But some of the serious ones, as you well know here, can cause a large amount of damage. Go on to the next slide.

So wrapping up, getting into the next steps. What are the next steps? The next steps, the team will meet at its fourth meeting and it will come up with a recommended set of mitigation measures for the new plan.

It will do that by taking the measures from the last plan, delineating which ones have actually been implemented already, so take them off the table if they've been done. Anything that hasn't been done yet, and these are very long-term measures, so you will find some measures in the last plan that you haven't had the funding for it or the permitting or whatever. But they'll ask, is this still a worthwhile measure, is this still a valid measure?

If it is, we're going to carry it into the new plan. This new plan is supposed to be looking ahead for at least the next five years. So we'll populate that list.

And then this is an opportunity to take a pause and say what new and different measures weren't even thought about in the last plan that we now want to add. And I think especially in the area of coastal resilience, since a lot more work has been done, we'll probably see some new measures that will come into that. So the team will help us build out that list of the recommended measures.

That really is the heart of the plan. That list of recommended measures that FEMA calls a mitigation strategy, that is kind of your town's roadmap for major actions and priorities to think about over the next five years and more. So that's really going to be our next step to build that.

And go ahead to the next slide here. Just a quick timeline. So we'll hold the fourth team meeting next month, and then we're aiming to hold the second public meeting in May, probably toward the end of May because it takes time to get all ready for that.

Based on the comments that we might get from the public, we'll keep a comment, sort of an informal comment period open for a few weeks. Going into June, we'll have the comments back and we'll be able to finalize the report and submit it to FEMA, to MEMA and FEMA. Then they'll do their review, and I don't put a timeline on that because you just can't predict how long they'll take.

But it's usually in the neighborhood of about three to four months. So that's why I said we submit it in June. It'll probably be around early fall.

You'll see it come back, and that will be the last step in the process. That's when it would come back to this board with a request that it be voted for and passed. And as I said earlier, once that plan is approved and adopted, then the town is going to be eligible for these grants.

And the timing is good because usually there's an annual grant round, and let's hope that it continues with everything they're talking about in D.C. There's usually an annual grant round of those BRIC grants that opens up in the late fall or around December. So you should be well-positioned by the time this plan is done to be eligible. If you did have a project in mind, I mean, you may not run out in the first year if you have the plan to have a project ready to queue up, but if you did, starting this year and for the next five years, you could think about these projects.

And if you'll move on to the next slide. I just want to mention that we're glad that we have the chance to speak to the public through this meeting and through those who could be watching this at home, but we want to have an opportunity for even broader public effort, so we've launched a community survey online, and this slide shows the website that you can go to and also a QR code for that website. It's actually a pretty easy, fast, like five or six questions.

You can do it in less than a ten-minute sort of survey, and it gives folks a chance to say what's important to them, which kind of natural hazards are they concerned about, are there any specific concerns right in their own neighborhood or their own properties, what do they think the town could be doing about these issues, to give some feedback to that. So we try to keep it high level and simple so it's not like a burdensome survey, but good enough to give us some information about what folks are thinking about in the town. So I actually came to that open house last week for the first time.

This is a totally separate project, even though it's also an MAPC, and I was giving out these cards with the QR codes, and we were getting people to give us those back. So this will be up if it's not already on the town's website, right? Yeah, we'll get this up on the town's website.

We'll keep this survey open until around the end of April, so there will be some time for folks to do that. With that, I think the last slide is just the thank yous and questions. That's my contact right there.

We set up a dedicated e-mail inbox for folks who want to give us comments. With that, if you have the time, I'm open to questions.

[Speaker 4] (59:13 - 59:55)
May I? Please. Great.

Thank you so much for the presentation. I guess just a couple follow-up questions to a couple of things that were said. When we look at the slide you had that said updating the mitigation recommendations, so we look at all our prior suggestions or hopes, and we determine what we've done and what we haven't done, and then I assume in that process we're looking to some other source material in town, including any updates we're making.

We've since adopted a climate action plan. We've updated a lot of other plans in town, which I would consider source material for this type of information, so I'm sure we're cross-referencing those.

[Speaker 1] (59:55 - 59:57)
Yes, an MVP plan, that sort of thing.

[Speaker 4] (59:57 - 1:00:49)
Absolutely. Okay, great. And then the second question I have you might not be able to answer right now, but maybe you can think on it and come back to us if you don't have an answer.

Curious what other steps Swanscott can take to put ourselves in a better position to access some of those grant funds you were talking about. Obviously, this unlocks the door, but a lot of people are going to walk through that door. So any strategy you have, I'm sure Mari's picking your brain any time she has available to put ourselves in the best position to be able to fund some of these mitigation strategies that we have, but also from your expertise, what things have gone through funding that have been successful in other communities that maybe we have on our list that we might want to prioritize because we know they might get funded?

[Speaker 1] (1:00:49 - 1:03:21)
That's a good question. I'll give you a broad answer to that. We can think about it more with the committee as well.

First of all, if you're going after one of the FEMA grants, the way they look at everything is a cost-benefit analysis. If they're going to spend federal dollars, they want to get a benefit back from it, and literally you have to run a cost-benefit analysis using FEMA's own dedicated software program to do that cost-benefit. So if you wanted to, I'll just say, do a seawall-related project.

I'll make an example. It could be a drainage project for inland. You have the cost of the project estimated, so you know what it's going to cost.

How do you account for the benefits, the avoided hazards and that sort of thing? And you have to use that software. That's where it's not easy.

Not many communities have the capacity to really do that in-house with in-house staff. You might. I don't know.

But a lot of towns, when you get to that level, if you're serious about a big grant, if you're going to get it, it needs that analysis. That's when they sometimes engage an engineering consultant to actually run that process. FEMA offers a training in how to use that software.

Just to give you a flavor, it's a three-day training in Gaithersburg, Maryland. So you're just not going to want to commit to that probably as a town, and not many do. That's why you might have to outsource that piece of it, but pay attention to that because the whole competitiveness of the grant rises and falls on how cost competitive it is.

And it's not that hard to estimate the cost of a project. You have engineering guides and 25 percent of designs and all that. But estimating the benefit that's offsetting that cost is really where the game is.

And that software is designed to do it, but it requires a lot of input and assumptions, a lot of nuance. So that's one thing. The other thing I'll say is it's not just about FEMA grants.

For instance, the MVP Action Grants is the biggest probably state-level grant that could potentially fund some of these kinds of things. And looking at the criteria for those grants, although cost-benefit is important, it's not quite in such an engineering sense as FEMA is. But what's more important to many of the MVP state grants is a focus on social resilience and environmental justice communities and vulnerable populations.

So there's a whole different lens that you look through for that set of grants, which are state grants but also which can be large grants. And those two probably aren't the only kind of grants, but those are the two biggest categories for the kind of things we're talking about here.

[Speaker 4] (1:03:22 - 1:03:23)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:03:23 - 1:03:23)
Sure.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:25 - 1:04:00)
I have a quick question. I remember I think it was about nine years ago we passed, we put in generators at the police station in the event we had a hazard, something really went wrong, and it really never made sense to me because I thought the police station was in a serious flood zone. So where are we as far as if we do have a real serious problem here, we get hit with, you know, bad storms that we've never seen before, where is our emergency center right now?

See?

[Speaker 5] (1:04:01 - 1:04:02)
And now it's at the police station.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:04 - 1:04:25)
Right. And so the chances of the police being able to get in or out is probably slim to none after looking at that map right there. So how quickly do we address that and make a change?

Because I'm just wondering if we should focus on that immediately versus waiting because if you just see that map that just came up there.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:26 - 1:04:33)
Well, the town hall now has a generator too, so you can see the move there. BW Yard has a generator.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:33 - 1:04:38)
But do they have anything, is there anything special set up or like special radios?

[Speaker 10] (1:04:39 - 1:04:41)
There's a whole command center at the police department.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:42 - 1:04:57)
Right. So the whole command center is at the police department. It looks like the police department is in the middle of the most vulnerable place in our town.

So I'm just wondering if we should change where our command center is going to be in the event of a crisis.

[Speaker 9] (1:04:59 - 1:05:01)
That's a good plan. Is there something else that we can look at?

[Speaker 1] (1:05:02 - 1:06:16)
Other towns have thought about that same question. And a few towns have actually been moving to consolidate older fire and police stations into a more modern public safety building, which is usually a third different location from where they're originally. And then when they're doing it now and putting a new building in, they're careful about not putting that in the flood zone or something.

But that's a big, expensive project. So you want to think about where are the costs, what are the benefits, and have you already gotten or can you, are there measures that can keep the existing location more viable, longer? So one thing is to look at what's the reason why that's showing up in flooding.

Are there drainage improvements that could happen? I'll give you one example. I think it was North Reading, down to the north.

Their police station had all the communications in the basement level, and it was next to a river. And it did flood. And so they came up with a mitigation project, which was like a drainage project that put up kind of a berm and retaining and kept the river from just that site.

They did a micromanagement for that site. There still could be flooding around that river and up and down, but right around there they created a safe zone. And they stayed put, but they made it safer there.

So that's an example of another approach.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:16 - 1:06:17)
Interesting.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:19 - 1:06:25)
Does anybody have any other questions? We're up on the second floor. I just don't know where the generator is located.

I imagine on the ground floor.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:26 - 1:07:22)
Well, yeah, and like we talked about elevating utilities, like that was the case in North Reading. All of the communication equipment was all the way down. I don't know if they moved it up or they just relied on it, but that could be another way.

Like maybe the building might suffer some degree of basement flooding, but if the critical equipment is not in the basement, then, okay, you have a survivable incident. At least as a temporary measure, right? I mean, I don't want to second-guess the specifics of your particular facility, but this plan is not necessarily to be that site-specific, but in fact it is intended to point where the concerns are.

And it would be a following project that kind of questions exactly that you're asking that could be generated. Okay, what do we do about this? What's the best approach?

What's the best strategy? I like to think that these plans actually set the table and ask their questions. They don't answer all the answers yet, but they let you know what the priorities should be.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:23 - 1:07:34)
I think for the town, you know, right now, I think that possibly beginning of the summer or something, I think it's a conversation to have with – I think Graham is our emergency management director.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:35 - 1:07:35)
He's on this committee.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:36 - 1:07:47)
Having that conversation because right now our emergency center is in one of the most vulnerable spots in town, and I just don't think we should just double-check it.

[Speaker 13] (1:07:48 - 1:07:49)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:50 - 1:07:56)
Any other questions? Well, thank you very much. That was a great presentation.

We appreciate you coming.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:57 - 1:08:08)
I enjoyed coming. I always told Margie I live in Brookline, but at heart I'm a North Shore guy. I love the North Shore.

Oh, great. She said, are you coming in person? I said, sure, I'm coming in person.

That's an excuse for me to come off the North Shore.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:08 - 1:08:11)
That's great. Well, we appreciate you coming. Yeah, very good.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:11 - 1:08:11)
Thank you so much.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:11 - 1:08:35)
Thank you. Okay, so next on our agenda is the first reading and – well, there's definitely not going to be a vote, but the first reading, standalone policies recommended by HR. Marianne.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:38 - 1:10:12)
I gave you guys a letter. I hope you got it, along with the standalone policies and the first pass of the handbook. A couple of call-outs from the back and forth.

We have an ADA policy located on page 12, but the policy is good to keep in the handbook, but it was called out that under Title II of the ADA, the town also needs a standalone ADA notice and grievance procedure covering discrimination outside of the employment contact. So there are two separate standalones for the ADA that I included. And then I'll jump down before going into the handbook to the other standalone.

During our recent risk management sort of deep dive at town hall, they recommended that we have a motor vehicle policy for all the people using town vehicles, and we didn't really have one. So they provided us with theirs, and legal counsel looked it over and said it was best to keep their policy and just use theirs. So I included that.

It's from travelers.

[Speaker 4] (1:10:16 - 1:10:25)
But counsel reviewed and determined that it met everything they needed. They didn't see any deficiencies, so that's why they made that recommendation? Yes.

Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:10:33 - 1:12:09)
Another call-out, and stop me if I go too fast, another call-out was for the Recreation Department, that it was needed that they have a sexual abuse and misconduct prevention policy for every worker, including their coaches and their kids that work in the summer. So that policy was given to Danielle. She did go in and make a couple modifications to it that made sense for the town.

I sent it to legal, and they said that this policy is good as is. So I included that. It's recommended by our risk management review for the Recreation Department and would be used for everybody on the go forward.

There's a sign-off page on the last page that would go into the employee file. While KP Law was reviewing the handbook, they noticed that there should be a drug and alcohol-free workplace policy. Towns that receive federal funds are required to adopt a drug-free workplace policy.

This policy has been expanded to cover alcohol and marijuana, which also still classified as controlled substance under federal law are not classified as such under state law. They also recommended it be a stand-alone that has a sign-off page on the last page that goes into the employee file.

[Speaker 4] (1:12:19 - 1:12:27)
So is it that we have had a policy in the past that's just not a stand-alone policy, or is it, in fact, that we have not had a policy at all?

[Speaker 6] (1:12:27 - 1:12:27)
We have not.

[Speaker 7] (1:12:28 - 1:12:32)
So these personnel policies are completely brand-new?

[Speaker 6] (1:12:32 - 1:13:12)
A lot of them, yes. We had a very small policy that was made final in 2022, but it did not cover a lot at all. Okay.

Another policy that wasn't called out that I just had updated was our electronic communications and computer usage policy. The last one we had was talking about dial-up, so it needed a refresh, and this is an updated refreshed policy with a sign-off page, which I'll have to go back and get everybody that's got equipment to sign it and pop it in their file.

[Speaker 2] (1:13:15 - 1:13:17)
Marianne, just a question on page 30.

[Speaker 6] (1:13:17 - 1:13:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:13:19 - 1:13:35)
We're breaking out employees by grade, grades 1 through 3 for vacation time. If there isn't an attached list of what positions are classified in each grade, that might be something to run through.

[Speaker 8] (1:13:35 - 1:13:35)
Do we have that?

[Speaker 2] (1:13:35 - 1:13:41)
Do we do that? Yeah, apparently we do, because we're breaking out vacation time by that, so if we're doing that, then we should.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:41 - 1:13:55)
Yeah, it should be added. That's a miss. It's a good call-out.

And are these vacation times normal? I mean, going forward, is this what we want?

[Speaker 2] (1:13:57 - 1:15:03)
Without knowing what positions are attached to which grade, I can't really speak. In my experience, it's not really typical to break it out with different levels of vacation time by grade in municipalities. Usually everybody gets the same.

So if everybody gets two weeks, it says two weeks for the first year or whatever, whatever it is you decide, the entry-level clerk gets the same as, say, the department head. In most municipalities, there's one straight schedule of how much time to accrue when. It's not usually broken out by position, because there's an equity issue there.

So on just first glance, your higher-paid people are accruing more vacation than your lower-end people. So is that fair? Is it equitable?

That's a question. I don't know if you want to weigh in on that or your thoughts, if you have any. I mean, what you came into, but maybe if you have a recommendation or a thought, do you think it's okay this way, or what your thought is?

[Speaker 6] (1:15:04 - 1:15:08)
I mean, I could understand that, especially if you're saying most municipalities follow that.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:09 - 1:15:11)
That's in my experience, but, you know.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:11 - 1:15:12)
It's worth looking into.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:12 - 1:15:26)
Maybe look at some of your comparable towns or peer districts and see if they accrue the same way, then it's standard. But if, say, Marblehead is giving everybody three weeks when they start, you're at a disadvantage here if you're even in the district.

[Speaker 4] (1:15:26 - 1:15:28)
You need to go to hire someone. Yeah, right.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:29 - 1:15:36)
It's part of your overall compensation package, right? So it's something that should be. That's my thought.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:36 - 1:15:40)
Should we finish going through the whole thing, and then we go back to questions? Is that all right for everybody?

[Speaker 2] (1:15:41 - 1:15:44)
And the other thing. I'm sorry. I just wanted to point this out.

[Speaker 13] (1:15:44 - 1:15:44)
Maybe not.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:45 - 1:15:50)
29. You might want to take out GIC in case there's ever a time where we exit the GIC.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:50 - 1:15:51)
Yeah, just put medical.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:52 - 1:15:56)
Right. In case you. Sorry.

Go ahead, Mary Ann.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:57 - 1:16:00)
No, I was just saying, did you want to finish before we go? Sure.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:01 - 1:17:09)
A couple of high-level call-outs, and then I don't know if you want to go page by page, but that I wanted to bring to your attention was actually on page 27 for holidays. It was a call-out that section B, which looks like it moved from when I just made an update. So section B on page 28.

The last two sentences in this section are not required by law and are up to the town's discretion. It's just about floating holidays and how it can be handled if somebody ends up having to work. So it says salary employees required to work on a holiday shall be entitled to take a floating holiday.

The floating holiday must be scheduled at least one week in advance and approved by the department head or town administrator. He said it was okay to leave it in, but it's not my place to make that call.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:10 - 1:17:19)
In what circumstance would we have an employee working on a holiday? Would it just be DPW primarily? They have their own CDA.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:20 - 1:17:36)
This is for all non-union. We might have Juneteenth. Well, we're closed.

But what we do have is rec. And then recently, Cheryl in payroll had to come in on a holiday Monday because there was something going on, and she ended up having to work on that Monday.

[Speaker 13] (1:17:37 - 1:17:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:17:39 - 1:17:44)
I assume some other rec. employees work maybe on the 4th of July if there's lifeguards or something like that.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:45 - 1:17:46)
Well, don't they have an altered schedule, though?

[Speaker 4] (1:17:47 - 1:17:48)
Possibly. Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:17:49 - 1:17:51)
Senior center for Veterans Day.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:57 - 1:18:05)
I mean, 13 paid holidays, I think, is pretty standard. I don't know about floating. I mean, how many personal days?

Is it at the next page?

[Speaker 6] (1:18:05 - 1:18:14)
So personal time for non-union employees is a full 34 hours. A week? A whole week?

[Speaker 5] (1:18:14 - 1:18:15)
No, no. A year.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:15 - 1:18:16)
No, no.

[Speaker 5] (1:18:16 - 1:18:17)
34 hours is a whole week.

[Speaker 10] (1:18:17 - 1:18:20)
A whole week's worth for the year. You're kidding.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:21 - 1:18:25)
That's shocking. The standard is three days. Sorry.

I didn't mean to.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:25 - 1:18:28)
Wait. So what did you say it was? 34 hours.

[Speaker 4] (1:18:28 - 1:18:30)
A week of personal time. That's a lot.

[Speaker 5] (1:18:32 - 1:18:36)
It's 34 hours for the people that work 34 hours a week. Let me change that. Check that, too.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:38 - 1:18:44)
I don't want to look like the Grinch, but three personal days is standard. I've never seen five personal days. That's a lot.

All right.

[Speaker 4] (1:18:44 - 1:19:05)
Can I just make just a general observation about the handbook? Just because we haven't had as robust of a handbook, that it might be helpful to pull some comparable municipalities and see what they do, unless you've already done that, which you're going to tell me you did. Great.

And then for you to highlight where they varied.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:06 - 1:19:39)
They were interesting. Marblehead was afraid to give it to me. They said it's 100 years old.

I have it. They're awful. And the ones that got shared with me aren't close to this.

This, I do have to say, came from a lot of hands, so I can't claim the fame to this. I believe Sean actually brought this from New Hampshire. It had a lot of New Hampshire policies in it that needed to get out because it didn't apply.

I think several of my predecessors worked on it, but nothing ever really got completely vetted or done with it.

[Speaker 13] (1:19:40 - 1:19:40)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:40 - 1:19:54)
I've sat with an HR professional, and then Amy and I had many sessions sitting down and kind of comparing to why we do what we do and the way we've done it and what the precedent has been, so nothing got reinvented. We put things in here as is.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:55 - 1:20:21)
I guess my point is more because we're finally putting pen to paper, then it sort of gets to be a nice time to just double-check our policies to make sure they're what we want going forward. We're not trying to recreate the wheel or be the Grinch, as Danielle said, but if some of the policies we've had in the past don't meet regional standards or need to be relooked at for that reason, maybe now's the time to do it since we're putting pen to paper.

[Speaker 2] (1:20:22 - 1:20:33)
You only can do it once, right? Not that you can do it once, but when you're going through such a comprehensive process, look at it all thoroughly and make sure it fits what you want it to be.

[Speaker 7] (1:20:33 - 1:20:44)
Yeah, and I think it would be helpful just if you have a copy of our old policy to be able to kind of overlay and see where those changes were made. That would be helpful for me.

[Speaker 3] (1:20:47 - 1:21:05)
Yeah, that's a good idea, David. So, I have a question. On page 24, are employees required to take an oath of office prior to assuming their duties, town administrator, public safety officers, department heads?

What kind of an oath? Do people take an oath of office?

[Speaker 6] (1:21:05 - 1:21:07)
They go down to the clerk's office, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:21:09 - 1:21:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:13 - 1:21:18)
That's nice to be part of the town's history in that way. Absolutely.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:27 - 1:21:41)
I would be inclined to consider looking at the floating holiday versus the personal time. At first glance, I would say no to a floating holiday with five personal days, but that's just me throwing that out there if you want to make a note.

[Speaker 6] (1:21:42 - 1:21:47)
Well, the floating holiday is only if they have to go in on a holiday and work, when nobody else.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:47 - 1:21:50)
I would like to think of it all as cumulative. Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:21:52 - 1:21:57)
There are some other call-outs in the letter that I sent you. I'm going to open a giant can of worms.

[Speaker 2] (1:21:57 - 1:21:58)
Prompt time?

[Speaker 3] (1:21:59 - 1:22:10)
Wait, I just have a quick question. On 30, right, I just want to know if we're within the norm as of 15 years, five weeks, I mean, can you double-check those?

[Speaker 6] (1:22:11 - 1:22:27)
It was called out by legal counsel that we don't really match union contracts giving that fifth week in the 15th year, that we should kick it up to 20 or 25 to not get ourselves in trouble. But it says here 25.

[Speaker 2] (1:22:28 - 1:22:33)
They were the ones who proposed five weeks? Legal counsel?

[Speaker 6] (1:22:33 - 1:22:41)
Legal counsel was surprised to see somebody earn five weeks as of the 15th year, as opposed to as of the 20th? 20th or 25th.

[Speaker 3] (1:22:41 - 1:22:46)
Okay, so legal counsel wants us to go to 20. Well, yeah, they wanted you guys to make a decision.

[Speaker 2] (1:22:46 - 1:22:48)
It's at the benchmark, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:22:48 - 1:22:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:22:48 - 1:22:53)
Okay. They could also put a cap on it. The union contract.

Yeah, they were worried about...

[Speaker 8] (1:22:53 - 1:22:59)
Unions have a lot of other things like non-union contracts. Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:22:59 - 1:23:01)
Right. Good point. Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:23:05 - 1:23:10)
I mean, I think five weeks is a lot too. I'm definitely sounding like the Grinch and I hate it, but...

[Speaker 6] (1:23:14 - 1:23:52)
Another call out they had on page... Hopefully, that's still the right page. Page 31.

The use of sick time. Actually, it's 32. Use of sick time.

Section 2. While this handbook applies to non-union employees, most of the towns CBA limit the amount of paid sick time that can be used to care for a family member. We should consider implementing a cap on this.

The earned sick time law does not apply to municipalities unless accepted by town meeting, and to date, we have not opted into that law.

[Speaker 7] (1:23:53 - 1:23:55)
Wait, can you repeat that? Yes.

[Speaker 4] (1:23:55 - 1:23:57)
It's the third bullet point on her letter, David.

[Speaker 7] (1:23:58 - 1:23:59)
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 4] (1:23:59 - 1:24:00)
Under use of sick time.

[Speaker 7] (1:24:01 - 1:24:02)
Okay, I was on page 32.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:03 - 1:24:09)
Yeah, page 32, and then under number 2, care for a child, parent, spouse, or parent of a spouse.

[Speaker 13] (1:24:09 - 1:24:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:14 - 1:24:19)
And what is it you're recommending we do? They said we should consider implementing a cap on this.

[Speaker 2] (1:24:19 - 1:24:23)
Right, it's usually a cap. It's usually three days, sometimes five days.

[Speaker 5] (1:24:24 - 1:24:27)
If anything more serious, they can apply to FMLA.

[Speaker 13] (1:24:27 - 1:24:28)
Right, right.

[Speaker 3] (1:24:28 - 1:24:34)
But if you get X amount of sick days, right?

[Speaker 2] (1:24:35 - 1:24:51)
You're supposed to be sick for yourself in theory, but this provision allows for it to be a family member. So I can call in sick because my son is sick and not have it – then I can call in sick myself the next day and not have it be like a negative.

[Speaker 3] (1:24:51 - 1:25:17)
Right, so in my business, when people – I don't really care who's sick. If I'm giving people X amount of sick day, I don't care who's sick, you, your dog, your cat, your dog. I don't care.

So I guess I just think what is it – if they have X amount of sick days and they need to use them, especially for a child, or if they need to use them, like why do we care? Like why would we care how they're using them?

[Speaker 2] (1:25:17 - 1:25:46)
Because sometimes people in certain workplaces have been negatively impacted by calling in sick today for yourself, and then you have to call in sick two days later for your son. That could be viewed in sometimes a punishment doled out in a case like that. So this protects that.

This gives people a little bit more protection to say, I can if I – I have the flu today, but on Friday my son's throwing up. So I'm not in a case where I can be reprimanded.

[Speaker 3] (1:25:46 - 1:25:54)
Right, I guess what I'm saying is if you get X amount of sick days – You can use them for whatever. Use them for whatever. You don't have to say who they're for.

[Speaker 4] (1:25:54 - 1:26:42)
It's your sick day. I think it sounds like KP was making a lot of parallels to CBAs and just pointing us in directions where we might have bumps in the road if we allow non-union personnel certain benefits that are not allowed in the CBAs. It seems like the commentary on this sheet is much related to pointing out where we've deviated from things that we have agreed to in collective bargaining agreements, which is fine.

They just want to highlight those things for us. But it doesn't mean, as Amy said, that we're comparing apples to apples. A collective bargaining agreement is not the same as a town policy handbook for a non-union personnel member.

So I think they're just pointing out here you may run afoul of something like this with the CBAs if you don't follow it.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:42 - 1:27:16)
It's standard language now in most places where you are allotted for family members, not just the individual employee. That's just kind of the norm now, especially in Massachusetts. Okay, family medical leave and all of that.

It just spells it out a little bit more. It also can curb abuse also. If you have somebody calling in sick and you say you can use it for whatever, it makes it a little bit more – you have to have a little bit more communication with your supervisor to say, this isn't me, this is my job, or whatever.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:16 - 1:27:35)
But the fact is, they're just calling on the phone, so unless you're asking for a doctor's note – and you can't ask somebody, well, what's wrong with you? If somebody calls in sick, they say, I'm sick, I'm not coming in, and that's it. You can't ask them what's wrong with you.

[Speaker 2] (1:27:36 - 1:27:40)
You can't ask them what's wrong with you, but you can ask them for who, if you have a policy like this.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:40 - 1:27:49)
Right, I guess my take on it is, if you have X amount of sick days and you want to take them, you take them. I don't care who you're taking them for. That's where I'm coming from.

[Speaker 4] (1:27:50 - 1:28:25)
Yeah, I see that. I also see if you're in a small workforce, that another person will have to pick up the slack if you're abusing your sick time. So I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you.

I just think that it would be good to – well, I guess if the benefit's offered to all, then the person who is taking the slack would also have the benefit. But you would just hate to see a situation where an employee would abuse that sick time, and then another employee would have to pick up the slack because the job still has to get done.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:25 - 1:28:39)
And it happens, because someone will call in sick once a week and say, my son is sick once a week for ten weeks. So you putting a cap on it gives it a little bit of a, okay, yeah, but this has happened ten weeks in a row. Maybe it's a pattern.

Maybe it's something else.

[Speaker 6] (1:28:39 - 1:28:47)
And I think there's those one-off situations, too, where you're going to go to the town administrator and be like – and you're human and you're going to have compassion.

[Speaker 2] (1:28:48 - 1:28:57)
Is there a – is it somewhere? I'm missing it where it says, you know, out five consecutive days on a doctor's note. Is that somewhere?

Seven. It's seven days?

[Speaker 3] (1:28:58 - 1:29:00)
Seven. I'd like to see that reduced.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:00 - 1:29:10)
Five is the standard there. I think five was in our previous – I would think it meant five work days, which is a week.

[Speaker 4] (1:29:10 - 1:29:31)
So maybe that's where the seven – Yeah, I don't think this is it, though, Amy. So this says sick leave benefits will not be paid the day before or after a scheduled day off vacation or holiday unless the employee provides a doctor's note within seven days. Right.

And then it says sick leave taken the day immediately before or after a paid holiday will result in the loss of that paid holiday unless you provide the note. So I'm not sure that's where it is.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:31 - 1:29:41)
Yeah, that's right, yeah. It's usually five consecutive and you're required to have it just for medical clearance that you can work or whatever your illness was.

[Speaker 3] (1:29:46 - 1:30:11)
You know, the part that I am concerned with that I think always has to be looked at is any earned but unused sick leave as of January 1 of every calendar year may be carried over to the next year and maintained in the employee's accrued sick leave balance without the approval of the Italian administrator. How does that keep going over – Where's that one, Ariel? It's on page 32.

[Speaker 4] (1:30:12 - 1:30:13)
Right after the seven working days.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:13 - 1:30:14)
Right after the seven working days.

[Speaker 4] (1:30:17 - 1:30:18)
I mean, we have a cap for that.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:18 - 1:30:20)
There should be a cap on that as well. Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:30:22 - 1:30:29)
So we're also rolling over sick leave as of January 1, but the fiscal year ends June 30.

[Speaker 8] (1:30:30 - 1:30:36)
All of the accruals in town are calendar. I think we had this conversation.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:37 - 1:30:37)
Can we change this?

[Speaker 8] (1:30:38 - 1:30:39)
Can we change it?

[Speaker 3] (1:30:39 - 1:30:43)
We're making all of these. Let's change it to reflect that. You want it fiscal?

[Speaker 5] (1:30:44 - 1:30:48)
We get a lot of vacation and personal time at the end of the calendar year.

[Speaker 8] (1:30:48 - 1:30:54)
No, so your vacation time comes the first of each month. It's accrued. All your personal time comes.

[Speaker 5] (1:30:54 - 1:31:00)
But you have to exhaust your vacation time at the end of the calendar year. Or you can carry over, right?

[Speaker 6] (1:31:00 - 1:31:01)
You can carry five days. Up to one week.

[Speaker 5] (1:31:01 - 1:31:02)
Up to one week.

[Speaker 6] (1:31:02 - 1:31:17)
But it has to be approved by the town administrator. Right. Okay, so that's vacation.

Yeah, and you have to have a business reason for it. It can't just be because I didn't manage my vacation time. There should be a reason why you couldn't.

Hold on. Right now we're just talking about sick. Let's just stick with sick right now.

[Speaker 8] (1:31:17 - 1:31:30)
So sick time for all non-union and all collective bargaining and everyone in town carries in perpetuity. That's why we don't have any money.

[Speaker 5] (1:31:31 - 1:31:34)
You can only buy it back at $500. Really curl your hair.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:34 - 1:31:37)
You can buy it back at what?

[Speaker 5] (1:31:37 - 1:32:02)
When you retire. But hardly anybody ends up really retiring here over the years. People have accrued it and then they end up leaving.

So they just leave it behind. It could impact someone like me. I only have 2,500 sick hours in the bank because I've lost two sick days in 22 years.

I think my issue with that would be is if you cap it, people are going to use it. Right? So why would we want people to leave if they're not sick?

[Speaker 4] (1:32:02 - 1:32:23)
What if you capped it at something reasonable like 200% of your annual accrual? So you could still carry over a few days each year, but it wouldn't be the same level of in perpetuum. I think this one is pretty standard of all municipalities.

[Speaker 8] (1:32:25 - 1:32:28)
I've seen it in every collective bargaining that I've looked at.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:29 - 1:32:32)
Collective bargaining, though, that's different than individual contracts.

[Speaker 8] (1:32:32 - 1:32:32)
Like a town policy.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:33 - 1:32:39)
You have to think that people that are in these positions tend to make more than those under a collective bargaining agreement.

[Speaker 8] (1:32:39 - 1:32:53)
So there's a value add there. It's been standard in most other communities for the non-union as well. For this amount?

The cap at the payout at the end varies. Some don't have a cap.

[Speaker 6] (1:32:55 - 1:33:00)
Amy, you and I were talking about you were even in favor of reducing that amount down.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:03 - 1:33:06)
It must have jumped up because it used to be 65.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:06 - 1:33:10)
Yeah. It's not a standard amount that 8,500 is.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:10 - 1:33:11)
No. It's arbitrary.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:11 - 1:33:14)
Very arbitrary. We'll put that in there. Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:14 - 1:33:19)
Well, part of our whole personnel policy, we've been talking about it, was 6,500. It was not arbitrary.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:19 - 1:33:56)
But I think this is a bigger conversation because it's part of your overall compensation, right? So this is not something you can just kind of extract and say, okay, let's chop it to 5,000 without looking at the compensation packages that you're offering. But they're also different.

Well, they are and they aren't. For this purpose, for non-CBA people. Just talking about contract people, right?

You want to look at all of its cumulatives. So it's vacation time, manners, sick leave, buyback. It's all a piece of the puzzle.

I don't know that one can be looked at without looking at all the others at the same time.

[Speaker 8] (1:33:57 - 1:34:05)
A lot of them, too, when you change them, it's everyone hired that date and after. Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:05 - 1:34:07)
So you're going to grandfather a bunch of people.

[Speaker 8] (1:34:07 - 1:34:17)
So someone like Gino would get the 85 and the same vacation schedule and the same, all of that. And then anyone hired the day after you adopt the policy goes.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:17 - 1:34:58)
So you have to think about like retaining, trying to attract new people, right? I mean, if you decide to change all of these and go with the bare minimums, like that's going to affect your pool, right? When they compare it to other towns and say, well, do I want to work at Swampscot?

They have X number of this and it's less. So it's a bigger. I would think we would evaluate vacation time, personal time, this piece in our compensation scales altogether to get a real good picture of what your package is.

But I do definitely think that 8,500 is a strange amount. And the whole policy there seems like it could be refined but not necessarily removed.

[Speaker 8] (1:34:59 - 1:35:06)
I've seen some cabinet number of days. Yes, me too. As well.

And it's still the 20 percent rate.

[Speaker 4] (1:35:07 - 1:36:06)
Yeah, 20 percent is pretty stable. I wonder. I know Doug's not here, but I know he would love this.

If we could do some sort of chart that reflects if you have the data points from other regional towns. And maybe we can just go down the side all the towns and then just see how we stack in some of these things. Coming from the private sector, I just don't really have a good handle on it.

That feels really off base to me. I guess I just want to see compared to the municipalities that we are hiring against. And also maybe we list our work week is three or four hours.

So that's a benefit that other places might not have. But then how the days off stack up, how compensation stacks up, how accrued time stacks up. And then we can just make a better call going forward.

[Speaker 2] (1:36:06 - 1:36:14)
Because you're going to look at towns like Danvers closes at noon on Friday. Or some towns are closed entirely on Friday like we used to be. So all of that is going to matter.

[Speaker 6] (1:36:14 - 1:36:20)
And do you want me to keep it to basically what we're using for the market survey? So our super peer.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:21 - 1:36:29)
Yeah. I also double check on that 34 hours. That 34 hour thing just drives me crazy.

[Speaker 6] (1:36:29 - 1:36:37)
I have it in your market survey. All those towns, I put their hours right to the right of it. And there's towns that do less than that.

[Speaker 2] (1:36:37 - 1:36:42)
Yeah, there's 32. I think Melrose is one of those 32.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:42 - 1:37:10)
Okay. So maybe if we could just get that before the next review of this, then we can all have some feedback. Sure.

Gina, 32 hours is like a day for you. Can I make another suggestion? Please.

Because I think that will really color a lot of my commentary going forward. So maybe if we could then just, I don't know if you want to do this in public session or you want us to sort of mark up.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:10 - 1:37:10)
Or public.

[Speaker 4] (1:37:11 - 1:37:18)
No, I know. But I didn't mean executive. I meant like if you wanted us to mark up comments and send them back to Marianne and then she could incorporate them all.

[Speaker 13] (1:37:18 - 1:37:18)
That would be great.

[Speaker 4] (1:37:19 - 1:37:41)
And then we could get all comments back. Because I'm sure there's going to be quite a few comments we're all making similar. And then there might be one or two things that, you know, this is Danielle's wheelhouse.

And I'm looking at this through a different set of eyes that she's going to have that I'm not. So then when we come back next time to discuss it, we can make sure we're prepared to talk about everything rather than just the pieces that I see. That would probably be helpful for me.

[Speaker 7] (1:37:41 - 1:37:51)
So we'll get the charts and graphs. And then we'll be able to make edits and additions, subtractions to the space.

[Speaker 6] (1:37:51 - 1:37:58)
Yes, but I think if I understood you correctly, you're saying go ahead and make comments, send them to me. Because in case I need to add it to a chart or a graph, I can.

[Speaker 4] (1:37:59 - 1:38:01)
Oh, I'd love to see the charts and graphs first.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:01 - 1:38:02)
Before? Yeah, before.

[Speaker 4] (1:38:02 - 1:38:13)
Because then I can give better feedback, I think, with those data points. And then if you have, I don't know, did this come over to us in a Word document?

[Speaker 6] (1:38:15 - 1:38:15)
PDF.

[Speaker 4] (1:38:15 - 1:38:24)
Because if you send it in Word, we can redline it. And then you can compare all of the red lines or overlay the red lines so we can see who's making what changes.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:27 - 1:38:30)
I'll send it with what you asked for, which was the original policy.

[Speaker 13] (1:38:31 - 1:38:31)
Thank you.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:32 - 1:40:11)
Okay. And then I had one other call out on here on page 33, seeing as we're right there. Seeing what?

Page 33, compensatory time. Oh, this is a biggie. Yes.

Biggie. So another thing that came with your standalone was this page, this one pager. Yeah.

Again, this is something that's going on and on and on. Basically, in a nutshell, we are not required to give compensatory time to salaried employees. It's really more for, like, say, the DPW, and it's an avoidance of overtime.

They may want to have some comp time instead. It's been a nice-to-have that's been going on. Basically, how we were using this and we are using it right now is it's up to the department heads to kind of take a look at their week.

And there's, like, a two-hour buffer sort of built into their 34-hour schedule where they're expected to do at least two hours in meetings. So once you go to 36, anything over and above 36 hours that week, if someone's like Margie who gets pummeled, she still doesn't take it. But meeting after meeting after meeting, she could say, hey, I'm going to take two hours back.

I'm going to flex it this week. I'm going to come in two hours late or leave two hours early, and that would be called flex time, and it just happens in the week. But if she has too many meetings that week and there's no way she can flex her schedule, she could ask for comp time up to 34 hours' worth.

You can't ever have more than that. And it has to get approved, and you have to use it within 30 days. You can't bank it.

You can't cash it out. You can't attach it onto vacations either. It's just so you don't burn yourself out.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:11 - 1:40:19)
Is there somewhere that speaks to that 34 to 36 suggested or implied? Is that somewhere in here?

[Speaker 6] (1:40:19 - 1:40:22)
Yeah, it's on this form. It's on that form.

[Speaker 7] (1:40:24 - 1:40:26)
But is that? It's not in this document.

[Speaker 6] (1:40:26 - 1:40:27)
It's a standalone.

[Speaker 7] (1:40:27 - 1:40:28)
It's a separate.

[Speaker 6] (1:40:28 - 1:40:31)
This is just sort of like your form to fill out to get approved.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:32 - 1:40:34)
Every employee has to sign off on that, I assume?

[Speaker 6] (1:40:35 - 1:40:47)
They don't sign off on it. This is what they submit to HR when they say, I need flex time or I need comp time. It gives us our paper trail in case.

And then if it's comp time that's getting approved, I go into the system and add it into their comp bucket.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:48 - 1:41:11)
But my point is if there is that unspoken policy of 34 to 36, it should be reflected here somewhere. Okay. Just so that you can refer back to it when you want to say to an employee, okay, but you worked a 35th hour, but here is this policy that says you really have to work a 36.5 hour to go ahead and dip into comp time. If you're enforcing that, it should be.

[Speaker 5] (1:41:12 - 1:41:15)
I think that was just for department heads that do extra hours.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:15 - 1:41:16)
So it's just for department heads?

[Speaker 5] (1:41:16 - 1:41:20)
Yeah. Because I think in all our contracts it says that you're expected to work a certain amount.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:21 - 1:41:29)
Any expectation that we have for any employee I think should be reflected here somehow in a bullet or a sub, however you want to.

[Speaker 6] (1:41:29 - 1:41:37)
And I do want to point out, although it's not a favorable point out to many, is we don't even have to do this. It's true. It's very true.

[Speaker 4] (1:41:39 - 1:41:42)
How broadly is this utilized? Like weekly, monthly?

[Speaker 6] (1:41:43 - 1:42:01)
I get a few of these a week. It sort of depends on the person. I think some people use it more than others.

There's plenty of people out there that just don't pay attention and work whatever they need to work, and it is what it is. But there are some people who have other things going on in their lives. So if it's cutting into that, they're going to use this form.

[Speaker 13] (1:42:01 - 1:42:01)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:02 - 1:42:04)
Honestly, we have nothing else going on in our lives.

[Speaker 7] (1:42:05 - 1:42:55)
No, I mean, look, I think our town hall employees work hard. And I think that if we're, you know, I take exception to the language of exempt employees are not eligible for comp time. You know, if we're requiring somebody like Margie or Gino to come in and be at every meeting for two or three hours a night, Monday through Friday, and show up on a Saturday and do these things, I want to make sure that they are taking their comp time, seeing something where they're not eligible for comp time, but, you know, this is our process and procedure.

And it says it a few times, you know, that it's not an entitlement. So it just seems contradictory to me. And we'll have to look.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:55 - 1:43:17)
I think that wording is in there because of FLSA, right? Fair labor law requires that wording so that you can, like, not bend the rules, I'll say, but you can be more flexible with people that are in that situation, but this protects you from anybody abusing it, right? So I think that's why it's worded that way.

I'm not sure. It's probably not your wording. No.

[Speaker 7] (1:43:18 - 1:43:22)
No, no, no. No, understood. I just want to make sure that.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:22 - 1:43:29)
But there should be some workaround so that you can, you know, reward and not penalize your people that are going out of their way.

[Speaker 7] (1:43:30 - 1:43:30)
That's the intent.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:30 - 1:43:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:43:32 - 1:43:45)
Is that not, like, a bonus? Like, not every salary employee has a bonus, but I bet if you're a contract employee. I think it depends on the leadership, right?

[Speaker 2] (1:43:45 - 1:43:49)
So it depends on the supervisor whether or not it could be considered a bonus because you might have.

[Speaker 4] (1:43:50 - 1:43:51)
A discretionary bonus, not a.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:51 - 1:44:01)
You know, you might get a TA that is very resistant towards it and discourages it as opposed to one that is more free using of it.

[Speaker 4] (1:44:01 - 1:44:20)
Right. So, like, is it a bonus? No, no, I mean to say, like, is the alternative to, like, a person who has to show up and come in all the time and they're doing it without filling in, you know, those compensation spreadsheets or whatever or an exempt employee?

They can request pay. Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:20 - 1:44:28)
They can request. An exempt can. Right.

They can request the overtime pay as opposed to comp time. Yes. Yeah, they can.

[Speaker 4] (1:44:29 - 1:44:31)
Yep. So they're the ones who are excluded from overtime.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:31 - 1:44:33)
But the non-exempts. Right. Yeah, salary.

[Speaker 4] (1:44:34 - 1:44:53)
It's just salary people. So, sorry, the point I was trying to make was, is it not likely that those exempt employees who are not filling out this form maybe have discretionary bonuses in their structure where their extra time served doing whatever they're doing is reflected then in a bonus structure instead of in comp time?

[Speaker 2] (1:44:53 - 1:44:57)
In my world, in my experience in municipalities, bonuses do not exist.

[Speaker 4] (1:44:57 - 1:44:57)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:57 - 1:45:29)
So that is just me personally. Okay. Right.

And I've worked for Wellesley, Melrose, Peabody. Right. In different capacities.

I don't often see, I haven't often seen any bonus for a municipal employee. Kind of because it's, you have benefits like half day Fridays, some closed day Fridays. You have a pension.

You have other things that corporate world people typically don't see. So that's why they see a bonus structure. But I'm not, I just haven't seen it in most towns.

[Speaker 13] (1:45:30 - 1:45:30)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:31 - 1:45:47)
But that's not to say there aren't some. I'm sure there aren't, you know. But I find it here to be out of the ordinary.

Okay. Is there a PSML? Is there a policy?

Have we, is there somewhere, is it contained?

[Speaker 6] (1:45:47 - 1:45:47)
Paid.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:48 - 1:45:51)
We don't have it. You don't, we don't.

[Speaker 4] (1:45:51 - 1:45:51)
We didn't.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:51 - 1:45:56)
Okay. Municipalities don't require it to and we did not opt in. But some do optional.

[Speaker 8] (1:45:56 - 1:45:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:56 - 1:45:57)
Yeah. But we don't.

[Speaker 8] (1:45:57 - 1:45:58)
It's not common. No.

[Speaker 4] (1:45:58 - 1:46:00)
Is that where you take like a dollar from your.

[Speaker 8] (1:46:00 - 1:46:04)
So like your paycheck would have like PFML, NAE-MA.

[Speaker 4] (1:46:05 - 1:46:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:46:05 - 1:46:06)
For your deductions.

[Speaker 4] (1:46:06 - 1:46:07)
Yep. Yes.

[Speaker 8] (1:46:07 - 1:46:16)
Municipalities were not required to participate in that trust fund. Great. Some towns do sometimes.

Yeah. We did not opt into it.

[Speaker 3] (1:46:17 - 1:46:20)
Marion, did you double check with Mike Sweeney under the military stuff?

[Speaker 6] (1:46:23 - 1:46:41)
No. What Darren asked me to do in the military was to take out all the wording because it gets you into trouble. It was like too much information.

And he had me narrow it down to one paragraph. And then we are to follow what, here, I'm going to go to that page. Hang on a second.

That's a good point.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:45 - 1:46:45)
Military.

[Speaker 6] (1:46:50 - 1:47:19)
Military leave is often very complicated. And we often advise people to keep it, and this is their words, that we often advise our clients to keep these policies short and sweet. While this section is fine to its legal form, they recommended something follows what it actually says, which is the town shall not discriminate against any employees because of past, present, or future application or membership, any uniformed or armed services.

And we follow the military policies that are out there for the state.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:22 - 1:47:57)
One question I have is, so as a town, we don't have anything where, as an overall town, do we have a policy as far as we have consideration for veterans first? What do you mean? What do you mean by that?

Well, so if you have 10 people applying. Oh, I see. Well, I think, as an equal opportunity employer, you can't say that you do have a preferred, that veterans have a preference.

Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (1:47:57 - 1:47:58)
No.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:58 - 1:47:58)
No. Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:59 - 1:48:02)
It probably is in civil service. It did under civil service.

[Speaker 3] (1:48:02 - 1:48:07)
So only under civil service you had that? Yeah, you're right. And we don't have that now, like with the fire?

[Speaker 2] (1:48:07 - 1:48:17)
Even under civil service, it's, you know, it's not rising to higher on the list, right? It's not saying you're unlikely higher just because you're a veteran, right? Right.

You have X, you move X number of spots to someone else.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:17 - 1:48:22)
It's part of a criteria, a grouping of criteria. It is not the only criteria. Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:48:35 - 1:49:08)
So I just, the reason I bring that up is because when we were in civil service, if there were points, if you did move up a ladder, or you received more points when we were in civil service, then leaving civil service, veterans didn't have that benefit. Now, I know we have two different hiring policy. We have a hiring policy with the police and a hiring policy with the fire department.

That sits outside of these, this policy.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:08 - 1:49:20)
Yes. Does it, though? How different is it?

It should come under the same umbrella, right? But it should, I mean, there are different requirements for police and fire, but it should still have the same overall policies, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:49:21 - 1:49:25)
Maybe it's the hiring procedure. The hiring procedure is different. Way different.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:25 - 1:49:29)
Are they, obviously they're going to have different benefits based on the CBAs, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:49:29 - 1:49:29)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:30 - 1:49:33)
But everything else, policy-wise, should be pretty similar.

[Speaker 6] (1:49:35 - 1:49:39)
Right? To a degree, but I mean, it would probably. It follows the CBA.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:39 - 1:49:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:49:39 - 1:49:43)
I mean, he called out where he thought it was different.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:43 - 1:49:54)
You know, for example, like, you know, smoking on property or something, or, you know, the sexual harassment law. That's going to apply. That's going to be an umbrella that's over anybody that works for the town.

Right?

[Speaker 4] (1:49:55 - 1:49:56)
Well, I guess that's a question for town council.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:57 - 1:49:59)
I would think they would have caught that.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:59 - 1:50:22)
Because my question was going to be, you know, once we figure all this out, right, and you have all these stand-alones that employees are going to sign, you know, I'm sure there will be some sort of grand presentation at town hall, where people get to read through the policy, they'll sign off on it, and then they'll sign these stand-alones. But then, like, it's only at town hall and.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:22 - 1:50:23)
Right. That's the thing. It should be cohesive.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:24 - 1:50:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:24 - 1:50:29)
In terms of police, fire, even school. Right? You all are paid by the same person.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:29 - 1:50:30)
Well, I mean.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:30 - 1:50:38)
To the extent you can be. Everybody's going to have a different CBA, but the same, you know, overall compass.

[Speaker 8] (1:50:38 - 1:50:52)
I mean, just to have that synergy, right? In process, any policy we've wanted to do has to be part of the collective bargaining for them to accept it. Correct.

So we can't adopt it until it's negotiated. That's a whole other.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:52 - 1:50:55)
We can adopt it, but we cannot force it upon them.

[Speaker 8] (1:50:56 - 1:50:56)
Right. Correct.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:56 - 1:51:08)
So town hall can adopt a sexual harassment policy, and everybody signs it, and then we can bring it to the collective bargaining table to say it's desired that the town would like you to sign off on this policy.

[Speaker 13] (1:51:08 - 1:51:08)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:08 - 1:51:19)
But before we do that, we should compare between the policy that they have or if they even have one, because it might not even be necessary to bring it to the collective bargaining table if it's reflective of something that already exists. Exactly.

[Speaker 6] (1:51:21 - 1:51:42)
I do want to ask. I know I'm going to get you a lot of information that is owed, but some of these stand-alone policies, like specifically the REC one for sexual abuse and misconduct, this is for just recreation, and we're going into her hiring season, so we want to be able to use this paperwork. I didn't know if any of those.

So you want to do that separate.

[Speaker 2] (1:51:42 - 1:51:45)
For sexual abuse and misconduct for children, I assume? Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:51:45 - 1:51:51)
Right. Yeah. It's for anybody who works with children, and it was recommended by risk management.

[Speaker 3] (1:51:52 - 1:52:02)
So is that something you want us to address, like, at the next meeting outside of this, outside of everything else? Yes. You want that to be a stand-alone, stand-alone?

[Speaker 6] (1:52:02 - 1:52:04)
Yeah. A stand-alone vote, I guess.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:04 - 1:52:06)
Is that the only one you want us to review by next?

[Speaker 3] (1:52:06 - 1:52:08)
So that will be a priority for us?

[Speaker 4] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
That's the most important one.

[Speaker 6] (1:52:08 - 1:52:16)
It's the most important one that's coming down the pipeline, because I got all of her paperwork ready for all these interviews that are coming up, and I just want to make sure this is part of it.

[Speaker 3] (1:52:16 - 1:52:30)
Okay. And what is the plan for support for recreation? Because they're going to be taking care of hiring, interviews, the paperwork, and then so you'll go through.

How many employees do they hire for part-time?

[Speaker 6] (1:52:30 - 1:52:44)
I have 22 returning employees that we're going to send out paperwork for them to fill out, and then they just put up a really nice sign-up sheet. You can go online and sign up for the interviews.

[Speaker 13] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:52:45 - 1:52:59)
They're starting in April, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the first week, which I'm part of those interviews, and then the following week is Tuesday, Thursday again, and then if we need to, we'll do it over April vacation, and we'll go from there.

[Speaker 3] (1:52:59 - 1:53:12)
I just want to make sure that there's a separate checking on that so that nobody falls through the cracks. On who signs this? On making sure everybody has signed it.

Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:53:12 - 1:53:14)
I would do that, absolutely.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:15 - 1:53:17)
And this is for hiring of, like, Park League people?

[Speaker 6] (1:53:18 - 1:53:24)
But it's also the coaches and the instructors, and as we move forward, if we do basketball clinics and things like that, like, all of it.

[Speaker 7] (1:53:25 - 1:53:35)
Mary Ann, can a minor sign this, or would their parent have to sign this? Like, if we're hiring a 16- or a 17-year-old.

[Speaker 6] (1:53:36 - 1:53:39)
Well, that's a great question, and I'll ask.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:40 - 1:53:41)
I don't know if they can.

[Speaker 6] (1:53:41 - 1:53:45)
I mean, he knew what this was for when I told him what it was for, so I'm surprised he didn't say.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:45 - 1:53:51)
I don't know if it's a different one, right, if they have working papers. I'm just curious. Yeah, that's a good question.

[Speaker 6] (1:53:53 - 1:53:55)
They do. They have to get a work permit and all of that, so.

[Speaker 13] (1:53:56 - 1:53:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:54:00 - 1:54:07)
I'm going to double-check that. Yep. My understanding, minors couldn't sign things, but maybe if they have work They work, can't they?

[Speaker 2] (1:54:07 - 1:54:11)
They can work. They have to be able to fill out applications and the like, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:54:12 - 1:54:20)
Let's find out. All right, so we need to have that on next week's agenda?

[Speaker 4] (1:54:20 - 1:54:20)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:54:20 - 1:54:21)
Diane?

[Speaker 4] (1:54:22 - 1:54:23)
Just the sexual abuse.

[Speaker 7] (1:54:24 - 1:54:26)
Just this one. That's 4-2?

[Speaker 3] (1:54:27 - 1:54:47)
4-2, yeah, believe it or not. Good God. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Any other questions or comments? I have a couple, but I can just send them.

Miriam, this seems like a lot of work, and it's nice that we finally have something that we could put our arms around and start to put our arms around.

[Speaker 13] (1:54:47 - 1:54:47)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:54:48 - 1:54:52)
Well done. It's comprehensive. So thank you.

I feel like they missed a new thing.

[Speaker 13] (1:54:52 - 1:54:52)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:54:54 - 1:55:21)
Nice work. Okay. Thank you.

Now let's – we have one more thing on the agenda. Now the last on our agenda is a discussion on the budget. So Amy, you and Gino and Danielle have some recommendations, or you want to – I think Gino.

Let's go over things.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:25 - 1:56:31)
Yes, we had a list. I don't know how in-depth we want to get into this because I haven't talked to all the department heads, but Amy and I have been meeting on a more than regular basis to scrub the budget a little bit more, and it's painful, to be honest with you. A lot of tough cuts.

I thought we had a pretty lean budget to begin with, but going over it, came up with a few other proposed cuts. As I said, I'm not sure what type of depth you want me to get into. I'm not going to get into the depth with cutting any potential positions without notifying anybody.

But I can address a couple of them. This was actually a great idea. We're going to have a town Eaton Warren article.

We're hoping the select board will endorse it. The vote would need the select board approval and an affirmative town Eaton vote. The recommendation is to include community events in the rec revolving fund.

Community events? Yes, such as. We have a few of them right here.

[Speaker 8] (1:56:36 - 1:56:37)
Those are just the budget lines for it?

[Speaker 5] (1:56:38 - 1:56:45)
Right. Fourth of July, town hall community events, recreation community events.

[Speaker 8] (1:56:45 - 1:57:18)
So these are all the low cost, no cost that are in the general fund. So this was something that the school had said in a previous committee she worked in. They had their town meeting vote for the rec revolving to include their community program.

So instead of the low cost, no cost being paid by taxpayers, it's essentially paid using the programming we'll use. And that's how it was paid for. So it didn't touch the general fund.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:18 - 1:57:49)
The only problem you have with that is if you're paying for your kids programs, you're paying to put your kids programs in there. I'm not paying for any kids program and yet I'm going to these different events. You're subsidizing.

You are subsidizing everyone else. So if you're able to say we put on X amount of events and those events bring in just say $30,000. Those events bring in $30,000.

And it's not the 30 coming from programs where you're signing kids up.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:50 - 1:57:56)
Yeah, but Danielle hosts many programs that do not involve children. I mean, we're remaking my night.

[Speaker 3] (1:57:56 - 1:58:14)
So what I'm saying is if the people that are taking programs are paying for the programs, they shouldn't also be subsidizing events. What I'm saying is we should identify that we are raising, we have a revenue on events and that revenue is counteracting what we're paying out on events.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:14 - 1:58:25)
So you're saying instead of the money coming from my fee, say it's $100 to go to Park League and I'm paying $102 because two of those dollars are going to subsidize no-cost, low-cost events.

[Speaker 13] (1:58:25 - 1:58:25)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:27 - 1:58:34)
Rather charge at events, some events, and then that draws the revenue to the no-cost, low-cost events?

[Speaker 3] (1:58:35 - 1:58:54)
Yes. Yeah. That's what I would think.

I think what I'm concerned is that we are not having events on the backs of people who are paying for their program. And I don't think it's hard to do. I really don't.

Because, for example, I think we should also be going out and getting some sponsorship money for, say, our music events.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:54 - 1:58:55)
I think they already do that.

[Speaker 3] (1:58:55 - 1:59:09)
The summer concert series is sponsored solely by donations. I think we could get even, you know, the parade could be sponsored by a bank.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:09 - 1:59:14)
I think what we're talking about here, though, is a total of, what, $10,000, $13,000?

[Speaker 8] (1:59:14 - 1:59:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:14 - 1:59:17)
To take it out of the operating, the line item.

[Speaker 8] (1:59:17 - 1:59:20)
And it seems like the discussion is more on how we raise the money.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:20 - 1:59:21)
It doesn't. It wouldn't change.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:22 - 1:59:23)
It wouldn't prohibit doing that same thing.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:23 - 1:59:27)
Right. It's not how we're raising it. It's just that we're taking it out of operating.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:27 - 1:59:39)
I don't have a problem with that. It's just I just want to make sure that when we're spending the money, that we are showing that we have revenue. We have revenue that's not from programs to cover that expense.

That's all.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:40 - 2:00:02)
And I think, you know, how REC operates in, you know, getting money from vendors or whatever you're talking to is kind of like, in addition to this piece of it. But this was just, I think, the purpose of this exercise was solely going through what's in operating that could potentially get moved over or get eliminated in some cases.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:03 - 2:00:20)
Is REC supportive of this? I don't think it, I don't even think we've gone that far. I mean, I think we should, if she's going to have $20,000 that she's got to compensate into no cost, low cost events or else then if REC can't pay for it, it doesn't happen.

[Speaker 7] (2:00:20 - 2:01:16)
But there's, but there's also, you know, I mean, I attended the last REC commission meeting, you know, they were talking, recreation was talking about, you know, the fact that they're having to put on more events that are revenue generating just to pay for just to pay for our fireworks this year. And even with a sponsorship for the Wednesday concert series or the strawberry festival or whatever, covering those, just covering those costs because they do want to have low cost, no cost events. There's still going to be a 10 or $15,000 gap that exists for our fireworks show.

So, you know, we are looking to try to figure out, all right, can we, can we do a Derby day event that raises several thousand dollars? Can we, you know, this year is a, is a golf tournament year. I believe that, I believe this year is where we have to pay.

So that year, so that, that causes that shortfall every other year.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:16 - 2:01:17)
Every other year.

[Speaker 7] (2:01:18 - 2:02:29)
Yeah. We had a deal for 10 years where, where Tedesco would, you know, would offer the course for free on a, on a Monday in May. And those funds went to went to the fireworks.

That agreement has since expired, I believe a year or two ago, you know? And that's just going to cause a shortfall. So I just want to make sure that we're not raiding the rec, the rec revolving account because what that will do in turn, not, maybe not this year or next year, but in subsequent years is raise the price of these low cost, no cost events and raise the, raise the cost of these programmings for, you know, for Park League or, or families that are involved.

So I just, I want to, I just want to be very cognizant and mindful of those of those things, because that's something that I hold near and dear to my heart is making sure that, you know, Park League is affordable for as many people as possible. And we're having these events that, you know, can cost five bucks and you can see Barry Goudreau from Boston, which was, which was awesome. And I, you know, I'm sure people would pay more, but I think keeping it keeping it affordable for families is, is certainly paramount.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:30 - 2:03:16)
Well, I think we're going to run into this in every single area that we're going to, that Gina is going to propose to potentially, you know, reduce or eliminate is that we're going to have a department that probably doesn't want to be reduced or eliminated, right. Or in any way, shape or form to get to this figure that we're all talking about, that we're all looking at. So to your point, yeah, I mean, definitely each department is going to have to be consulted with each one of his recommendations in, you know, discussions are going to have to be had, but it's going to come down to priorities and where we're, you know, what we're looking to do, right.

And what I think to make sure that it's spread out and it's not, you know, one department taking more of a hit than it can handle or, you know, focusing too much in one area.

[Speaker 4] (2:03:16 - 2:03:34)
Yeah. I, you see more often than not when you like sign your kids up for things, it's like, would you like to make a separate donation? Like signing them up for lacrosse camps and all sorts of stuff.

It's like you can make a $5 donation to the, like the entity that runs scholarship.

[Speaker 9] (2:03:34 - 2:03:35)
Yeah. Yeah. Whatever.

[Speaker 4] (2:03:35 - 2:03:47)
So maybe there's something along those lines that we can do. Like if folks, or to do a $10 donation at the time they sign up for rack, maybe there'll be willing to do it because they're already spending the money and those who can't won't.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:47 - 2:04:02)
That might be a way for them to fill their coffers at that time, but just As I started the conversation off, I said I wasn't going to address some of them and talk to department heads and probably misspoke on that one a little bit.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:03 - 2:04:04)
Sorry. I asked the question.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:06 - 2:04:07)
I apologize to her.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:09 - 2:04:16)
In Gina's regard, I think I have the copy that has the circles and the SBs and I don't think you have that copy.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:16 - 2:04:18)
Yeah, but I should have picked up on that.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:18 - 2:04:18)
Sorry.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:20 - 2:04:50)
So one of them that we know we can save Two, five, and six are the safe ones. Right. And I know that number 13 just got thrown out there, but with that proposal, it's actually $22,700.

Yep. And saying he just referred to two is to reduce the election related expenses to align with the election cycle. We didn't meet with the town clerk.

We just used his budget numbers from the previous year. There's a lot less elections this year and we realized the savings of 21,000 to 43.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:52 - 2:04:54)
And that department has, is an agreement with that.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:54 - 2:05:16)
Okay, great. Thank you. One of them was we could talk about, I haven't talked to the department head, but maybe promoting somebody from within one of the apartments and then having a vacancy in a lower position.

We'll have a net savings of, I guess the net savings would be $50,000 to appropriate a little extra money. To go forward to the building commissioner.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:17 - 2:05:21)
Is that something extra than outside of the budget that we talked about?

[Speaker 5] (2:05:21 - 2:05:26)
Yes. This one would be outside. It would be using an internal candidate.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:28 - 2:05:38)
So as you went through and found all these, like, we'll call them balances because I know some of them are cuts and additions to sort of make up for whatever the cuts you have. What's the bottom line. What did we get to?

[Speaker 5] (2:05:38 - 2:05:44)
The bottom line did it all. If we did the ones that I was proposing today, we'd get to $144,675.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:47 - 2:05:49)
And then there's potential for others.

[Speaker 5] (2:05:50 - 2:06:07)
Yep. There was another potential for roughly, what's that? $75,000, $80,000 and $160,000.

With other departments that I would like to talk to the department head about because I'm not so sure about them, but they could convince me those could be additional savings.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:07 - 2:06:10)
It's a little tough talking about it without talking about it.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:10 - 2:06:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:06:10 - 2:06:12)
I know that's the problem.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:13 - 2:07:35)
Into Gino, to your defense, these are literally suggestions that I made going line by line and looking at five-year averages, just literally. And I think I said this at the last meeting. I was prepared to, I had a whole list that I was happy to go through and tell you exactly, line for line, what I, you know, was looking at and what stood out to me as areas we could cut.

So I sent that to Gino and last Friday, Gino met Gino, Amy, Pam Angelakis and Cheryl Stella, all sat down. I went to that meeting and they had met the Friday before and had conversations that produced a little bit of savings somewhere. I wasn't really sure what, and then it was kind of at a standstill.

So I went to that meeting last Friday and I really feel like you guys did a great job, really. Thank you. You were both very open-minded and very approachable and really, you know, tried to see and just have a conversation.

Are any of my suggestions logical? Some of them might not be worth a hill of beans, quite honestly, because, you know, I do have a degree in business, but it's been some time, and I just said, okay, maybe this is an option, maybe it's not. So when I put my list together, I think I came, you know, throwing everything under the sun in there, it came close to $600,000, right?

After sitting together last Friday, I think it was closer to $400,000, right?

[Speaker 5] (2:07:35 - 2:07:35)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:36 - 2:07:46)
But again, these are just recommendations from me. I'm not telling you to do X, Y, Z, but from that, you know, whatever number you just came to is...

[Speaker 4] (2:07:46 - 2:07:47)
$140,000.

[Speaker 5] (2:07:47 - 2:07:48)
Yeah, $144,000, $675,000.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:49 - 2:07:50)
And then maybe another $160,000.

[Speaker 5] (2:07:51 - 2:07:53)
Yeah, then I'm not so confident.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:53 - 2:07:53)
It's hard.

[Speaker 5] (2:07:53 - 2:07:54)
We can talk about it.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:54 - 2:08:49)
You know, this stuff is the hard conversations I was talking about, right? And it's looking at every little thing and saying, do we need this? Right.

Do we just want this or do we need this, right? And I'll take one example that really sticks out in my head, and I'm going to be quite honest with you, it really annoys me, is the cost of cell phones, right? And I think it was something like $35,000.

$32,000 or something. Right. And when I found out how many people, and this is no offense to anybody, in this town that work for this town that have cell phones, right, when it's $36,000, and I'm thinking about how that correlates, you know, to a salary of a person, right?

You mean there are paras in this town that make less than $36,000. There are clerks, DPW guys that might make $36,000. That to me stood out, right?

So I think that was like something that I was really focused on. There's got to be a way to reduce how much we're spending.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:50 - 2:09:05)
What was the reason? Because this was brought up like two years ago on the cell phone thing, and the reason we were told that so many people had to have cell phones was there was a legal reason. Is that not the case?

[Speaker 5] (2:09:05 - 2:09:17)
I don't know if there's a legal reason. That is what we were told. We were told that if we took a cell phone away, potentially from a department head, there would be no expectation that we could reach that person after work.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:17 - 2:09:18)
And there really shouldn't be.

[Speaker 5] (2:09:20 - 2:09:20)
Fair enough.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:20 - 2:09:46)
For the work-life balance of the people that we employ, I mean, for the most part, I would hope that anything that we have could wait until the next morning, with the exception of police chief, fire chief, stuff like that. DPW. I get it.

I get there were a few, for sure, but the sheer number. I think every single department head has a cell phone. If I'm not mistaken, that was part of the list that every single department had.

A cell phone that we're paying for.

[Speaker 8] (2:09:46 - 2:09:52)
Do you know when I went through the list, at least for the town phones today? As well as the police.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:52 - 2:10:00)
I mean, I want to say there are 20, but various levels of no offense to any of the police. I think so. Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:10:00 - 2:10:37)
So it's police, fire, and town. So Gina and I specifically went through the town. List today and really went through it kind of with that.

You know, do we need to reach this person? Yeah. Outside of town hall hours.

Like what. Emergency. Would we need to reach this person for?

And if there wasn't one. We're like, okay. We can potentially.

Cut this. Broke down the list down to everyone's monthly plan and the annual cost. So that's.

And then we're going to have the conversations with. Why would the police, why would the police need a cell phone? If they have a radio.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:37 - 2:10:38)
That's what I said.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:39 - 2:10:59)
I said, I don't know. I mean, even if that, you know, from 30, if it goes from 36 to 15, that's $20,000. That like at first pass, we would have just approved this budget or looked at this budget and said, okay, this is, you know, stuff we're all used to.

Let's just go ahead. You know, it just was. Just stood out.

It was one of the things.

[Speaker 7] (2:11:00 - 2:11:07)
I mean, or rather than get rid of it wholesale, is there a possibility of renegotiating negotiating a better, a better deal? No, I mean.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:07 - 2:11:13)
Yeah. I mean, how often do we do that? Right.

I mean, who knows if that's everything. I do that every year. Oh, good.

[Speaker 8] (2:11:14 - 2:11:38)
We are on the lowest cost possible as a public safety. And the town gets to piggyback on the public safety departments of that. So we have the lowest cost plans available.

We don't pay for the hardware phones themselves. And in the event of an emergency, anyone with a town phone will still be contactable. Got it.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:38 - 2:11:45)
So the question is, so did you look at the contract? Like what can we get out of it? How long is this contract?

[Speaker 8] (2:11:45 - 2:11:56)
So we would not be canceling the phones in its entirety. So we would just be canceling the lines. And we aren't able to do that as of July 1st, so.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:57 - 2:12:12)
Do you want to speak to some of the other areas that, I mean, I personally will happily address what I, you know, one big area that is probably not, won't make most people happy, but it's performance bonuses, performance and retention bonuses.

[Speaker 5] (2:12:13 - 2:12:13)
But we already took those.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:13 - 2:12:15)
You already took those out.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:16 - 2:12:17)
Even the retention bonuses?

[Speaker 5] (2:12:17 - 2:12:20)
Yeah, well, going forward, but I think.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:20 - 2:12:23)
What do you mean retention? You mean the bonuses that are in people's contracts?

[Speaker 5] (2:12:23 - 2:12:24)
Yeah, right now.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:24 - 2:12:35)
No, so I do have an opinion on that. If we have given someone a contract, that they have agreed to a contract, there's a bonus within that contract.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:35 - 2:12:43)
But you realize the wording of what that contract says, right? That that bonus is not guaranteed. That's right.

It's not guaranteed. And it has to be appropriate.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:43 - 2:13:30)
No, performance or retention, both of them, right? So they're not guaranteed bonuses. That's right.

However, if someone was given a bonus within their contract, and they actually earn that bonus, I feel that we're under contract. We've made an agreement. This is my opinion.

We've made an agreement. If I've hired David, and I said, David, I'm going to pay you $100,000, which might be a little bit less than what you wanted. I'm paying $100,000, and there's a chance for a $5,000 bonus.

I feel that he has signed it. He's made the agreement to go back and take that away. I think that's negotiating a bad thing.

But what are you basing that performance bonus on? That would be up to the town administrator, whatever, you know, his or her.

[Speaker 2] (2:13:31 - 2:13:55)
But we haven't even had that. We've never even seen what any of these bonuses are based on. I've asked for that many times with a prior town administrator and never saw anything.

To justify what we're giving people $5,000 and $10,000. I've seen $10,000 in retention bonus for contracts that are expiring this coming June. Why would we not consider taking all of those out for FY26?

[Speaker 3] (2:13:56 - 2:14:07)
Well, if you've already signed the contract. So if I signed a three-year contract with David, and now I'm going to go back and say, hey, you know that bonus I put in your system? I'm taking it out.

[Speaker 13] (2:14:07 - 2:14:08)
Yeah, I can't afford it.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:08 - 2:14:27)
I think that's what's not fair. I think what is fair is to say, David, by the way, that contract that's in there, I'm going to be grading you on this, this, and this. I think clarity on how he's going to earn it is what we should do.

I don't think going and saying, I'm taking it out. I think that would be negotiating in bad faith. Well, let's be honest.

We've never graded and given people bonuses based on that.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:28 - 2:14:39)
It hasn't happened because I've asked for it. That's right. So we've given bonuses to people for absolutely no good reason that we can justify, other than because it was in their contract.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:40 - 2:14:53)
No, I think, no, no, no. I don't think there were, I think we gave bonuses out that were outside of the contract. We gave a good amount of bonuses out just under that bonus line item, right?

[Speaker 8] (2:14:53 - 2:15:13)
So both existed. There were discretionary performance bonuses in individual employment contracts, and for two years, there was the $30,000 performance management line for any non-union, non-contracted employee who was eligible for it.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:15 - 2:15:20)
Which I don't think was dispersed properly at whatsoever.

[Speaker 4] (2:15:21 - 2:15:23)
Well, that's non-union, non-contract. You could remove that.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:23 - 2:15:23)
Exactly.

[Speaker 4] (2:15:24 - 2:15:24)
Well, you have removed that.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:24 - 2:16:01)
We have removed that. But I think what Daniel was talking about is to remove the line item in contracts we've already negotiated. Is that what you're saying?

I'm talking about potentially all. Right. Absolutely all.

And what I'm saying is, if we already have a signed contract with a town employee, I am totally against taking that out in a signed contract. I feel that we negotiated in faith. There's a bonus within there, and if the problem is that that bonus isn't described properly, then correct that symptom.

Don't go back and take it from an employee.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:01 - 2:16:37)
I think that the way it's worded, we have a perfect out for that, if appropriated. That is the exact wording in the contract. So in other words, if we're funding it, fine.

But if we don't have the money to fund it, which we don't have the money to fund much right now, it is up for grabs. That's how I see it. I think a retention bonus for $10,000 that I saw for one employee who's expiring that would be funded for FY26 is ludicrous.

I just think that in municipal life, the way we've structured these bonuses is unheard of. I'd have to read that one. I don't know what it is.

[Speaker 4] (2:16:37 - 2:16:58)
Could it be broken out in such a way, and maybe it already is, so it seems to me in the past that we've taken that line item and we've filled it with contractual obligations plus additional. So is there any additional in that line item right now, or is it only what is contractually obligated right now?

[Speaker 8] (2:16:59 - 2:17:21)
So the ones that are in individual employment contracts, you'll see in the department themselves. So the police chief contract that was voted by the Select Board last year, you will see a line in that personnel that says performance management, for instance, contract, or performance bonus, for instance, contract. The performance management line that was $30,000, you will see it zero.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:22 - 2:17:33)
The only thing that exists today is something that is currently in a contract, to Danielle's point, which has to carve out, but we have to decide whether or not that's something we want to touch.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:34 - 2:17:48)
And maybe you just go with the ones that are up for renewal coming up now. Maybe the ones that have been settled and voted, the ones we just voted, fire, police, chiefs. Okay.

We just signed those, fine. Maybe we just look at the ones that are expiring coming up.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:49 - 2:17:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:49 - 2:17:51)
Right, or expiring FY26.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:51 - 2:17:56)
Because those haven't been agreed to. Right. So let's not agree to them going forward.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:56 - 2:17:56)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (2:17:58 - 2:18:02)
I wouldn't want to go back on the comment that we made.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:03 - 2:18:28)
I mean, you're talking $30,000, $40,000 that's potentially out there, just so you know. Right, so those contracts that we just signed. Well, it's both.

It's some that we just signed, police, fire, treasurer. I mean, I don't want to get into specific titles, but the ones I'm talking about, retention, $10,000, hasn't come up yet. Right.

They're out there. It's a considerable pool.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:28 - 2:18:33)
Well, let's consider it on the table, but then let's have a conversation after we get through some of these other things.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:33 - 2:18:35)
But it's just one of other.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:35 - 2:18:49)
There's a lot of other matters on the table that we could be looking at. So before we say yay or nay to this particular one, let's see how far we can get down the road before we even have to contemplate that and leave it on the table so that that's not a today decision.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:49 - 2:18:56)
Yeah, because I don't think that's part of your number, right? But you know, that isn't in there for the $100,000 and whatever thousand you just came up with.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:56 - 2:19:07)
I just wanted to touch on, we're not just looking at cuts in the budget, right? We're going to take a look at if we can figure out any revenue drivers or increase the revenue in the budget as well.

[Speaker 8] (2:19:08 - 2:20:01)
So I have our treasurer double checking which ones, to make sure the ones that I have flagged as statutory. These are fees. Yeah, so we are looking at fees, fines, and permits.

And I am updating the list that it looks like FY23 was the last time a full comprehensive list came to the board. And before that, it was FY2020. I know last year we just brought a couple standalones.

These to be updated. So we are going to have that full list. I'm hoping for your next meeting.

Okay, great. And it includes the building. It includes all fees, fines, and permits for the town.

Obviously, we won't have time to pull the comparable data, but we can at least look at it and see what it is. I'm trying to run reports to get.

[Speaker 3] (2:20:01 - 2:20:03)
When the last time it was changed. Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:20:03 - 2:20:21)
Well, we know last time it was changed, but. And then we're trying to look at also the metrics for it so that if we look at something and you're like, oh, this is great. We should increase this fee by $10.

How much can you really expect to. But I also want to make sure you have the context to be like, well, that fee has only been done three times a year. So like.

[Speaker 4] (2:20:21 - 2:20:22)
Yeah. So what is the saving?

[Speaker 8] (2:20:23 - 2:20:34)
What is the potential increase? And it doesn't mean that you shouldn't increase that fee. If you should.

I just want to make sure that I'm giving you all the information at that time so that you know the impact as you're deciding. Excellent. Amy.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:34 - 2:20:38)
Perfect. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

I keep interrupting.

[Speaker 5] (2:20:38 - 2:20:55)
No worries. One of the other things we saw is minimal savings, but it's still a savings problem at $10. We're paying a stipend for somebody to take minutes, eight minutes for one of the boards, which I believe the chair has somebody to do.

It's not one of the big ones like finance.

[Speaker 8] (2:20:55 - 2:21:15)
I want to clarify. It's not a stipend. So it's overtime.

We have someone in the administrative professionals union taking, doing overtime to take minutes for a meeting. So instead we're going to have the salaried staff person take the minutes. Or to help.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:17 - 2:21:18)
That's okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:21:18 - 2:21:19)
Do you want to say?

[Speaker 5] (2:21:20 - 2:21:20)
Too late now.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:21 - 2:21:25)
Too late now. So just the staff person will take the minutes.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:25 - 2:21:27)
We have one of the clerical staff that's taking the minutes because.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:29 - 2:21:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:21:30 - 2:21:31)
So we're chipping away.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:32 - 2:21:38)
Literally. I mean, at every possible. We were looking at every possible opportunity for savings.

Of course.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:38 - 2:21:40)
So it might sound trivial, but at least.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:40 - 2:21:43)
Yeah, it adds up. It really did add up.

[Speaker 7] (2:21:43 - 2:22:17)
So, you know, was there, was there any consideration for, for some of the fuel lines? Because I know, you know, just looking back, you know, two years ago, there was an incredible spike in. Yeah.

Yeah. We had four plus dollars a gallon. Right.

Gas. So when you look at those averages, it could be skewed a bit. There may be some savings in some of those lines.

I grabbed the wrong packet before I left the house. Otherwise I could, I could point to the, to the specific line. So I'll shoot you an email.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:17 - 2:22:20)
Because we, to be honest with you, we haven't looked at that. So that one.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:20 - 2:22:23)
Maybe you just want to look at the last two years average.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:23 - 2:22:23)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:23 - 2:22:25)
Because we do have some vehicles now that are.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:26 - 2:22:26)
Electric.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:28 - 2:22:36)
That are electric. Well, no, we don't have, I don't think. Well, on the police station there, there were the hybrids.

Hybrids.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:37 - 2:22:39)
The hybrids. Well, we do have two electric ones in town hall.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:40 - 2:22:40)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:41 - 2:22:42)
A little, a Chevy Boltz.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:44 - 2:22:52)
Right. But where we really see, where we really see the savings, and that savings started four years ago. And having the VW.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:52 - 2:23:02)
VW, yeah, we've run a, you know, it depends on, we have a busy snow season, winter season. We've run a lot of fuel. Of course.

But that can also go to the snow and ice budget too.

[Speaker 13] (2:23:02 - 2:23:02)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:02 - 2:23:03)
There's savings.

[Speaker 13] (2:23:04 - 2:23:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:06 - 2:23:11)
One of the other ones, talk to the DPW director, and he's willing to cut that.

[Speaker 3] (2:23:13 - 2:23:18)
You threw me off there. I asked myself, I looked in the mirror and I said, why did I do this?

[Speaker 5] (2:23:18 - 2:23:24)
Part-time staff, eliminate and going down from five to two would be a state potential savings of $23,000.

[Speaker 3] (2:23:26 - 2:23:28)
So what is the loss? So it's summer help.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:29 - 2:23:29)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:23:29 - 2:23:33)
Right. But even though summer help, what is the loss to, what is the loss?

[Speaker 5] (2:23:33 - 2:23:49)
So some of the services, emptying the trash barrels, but I think the two guys can absorb it, and my guys can probably absorb it. It's definitely a certain value, but are we getting 40 hours a week from summer help? Probably not.

[Speaker 4] (2:23:52 - 2:23:55)
Make sure the seagulls don't take all that trash.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:55 - 2:24:47)
Well, just so everyone knows, right? We ramp it up to empty the barrels, and now we're up to seven days a week after Memorial Day, and twice on Saturday and Sunday during the summer, and that's beach days. And skipping over the next two, because I haven't talked to them.

One would be, number nine is tied into number three. If we were to promote somebody from one of the departments to make a savings, we'd also save $25,000 by not having to pay health insurance for that individual. And then the final one is potentially one of the departments was looking for an increase on a salary or a stipend they get, and they've had the same stipend for the last six or seven years, and they're looking for a $1,200 stipend.

[Speaker 2] (2:24:50 - 2:24:53)
It's a $1,200 increase. $1,200 increase.

[Speaker 5] (2:24:53 - 2:24:53)
Increase.

[Speaker 2] (2:24:53 - 2:24:57)
Right. To a stipend that's, what, $13,000, $14,000.

[Speaker 5] (2:25:00 - 2:25:10)
To total all those up, as I said, $144,000. The potential for another $160,000, potentially.

[Speaker 2] (2:25:11 - 2:26:18)
So that's potentially $300,000 in savings, right? Yep. And what's hard about this process is you don't want to speak to it publicly, each department, right?

But at the same time, you have to, because when we don't, then we're accused of not being transparent, right? And we're accused of not having deliberations in public. So it's like we can't have it both ways, right?

You know, we're trying to do everything we can and actually make ourselves as lean and efficient as possible, and at the same time not sacrifice, right? But to avoid that appearance of secrecy, collusion, whatever ridiculous thoughts are out there, we have to have these conversations, and it's painful, it's not easy, and you guys, again, to your credit, both of you, have been great about considering all possible options, right? Because that's the objective here.

We're looking to find however much we can to spread it out and make this town run with what everybody needs. And it's not going to be easy, because no one wants to give up anything, right?

[Speaker 4] (2:26:19 - 2:27:49)
I think Eric spoke to that when he spoke at public comment, which is like, listen, we've got to make a decision. We either want to have goods and services at a level that taxes remain a certain rate and we don't pay a certain amount of money, or you want to pay more money and have better services. So that's a community ideology that has to be worked out.

It shouldn't just be the five of us. We should be listening to community members to figure out where the barometer lies this year. And I think for me, we need to be doing exactly what we ask the school to be doing, which is going down this path of not comfortable conversation and making sure that when we present a budget and we're saying this is the best we can be, that it is all the things that we think are the best we can be.

And so, you know, I think that's the only way we're going to have apples to apples and be able to say, you know, we can't go any further. We've literally turned every stone and, you know, we've contemplated every cut meticulously, which I think you guys have been doing. We've considered increases to revenue.

We've considered all the tricks and, you know, and this is where we're at. And then at that point, then we can have a better conversation, knowing we've come to the table in the same capacity that we've continually asked the school to come to the table.

[Speaker 2] (2:27:49 - 2:29:35)
And again, because it's not an easy conversation, it's specifically not easy for you. And I'm going to say that because you're in an interim role, right? And I have suggested to you a number of unpopular cuts, okay?

And it's easy for me to sit here and suggest those cuts because I am not potentially interviewing for this job. Let's be clear, right? You are interviewing every single day, all day, right?

And I think that's a level of scrutiny that I'm not sure most candidates go through in this type of process. If you want this job, and I'm not even speaking to that, but I understand. I just want you to know, and I want everybody, whoever is listening to know, that I appreciate that you're willing to have the hard conversations.

And that's what this stuff is. It is not popular, and it's not going to win the fan of every department in this town, but that doesn't mean that it's not necessary. And in my experience as a resident in this town, I've never seen it done on this side.

I have seen it done on the school side every single year, right? They're having these conversations. I think Pam Angelakis said it best.

She got rid of cell phones five or six years ago for this very reason, right? So they go through this exercise every year. I don't feel like the town has, which is why I suggested what I did.

Maybe they have in some way, shape, or form, but, you know, from my experience, I've never seen a dive like this, right? I don't know if you, Amy, have in your tenure as finance chair. I go through it every year with finance committee, but...

We talked about that. It kind of ended with you, and then the recommendations you made didn't really go past you, right? Yeah.

Which has been a challenge for you in that role, right? So I just want to put that out there.

[Speaker 5] (2:29:35 - 2:29:41)
I think the finance chair said the same thing, that he's never seen a budget like this that they're going to have to go through line by line.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:41 - 2:29:42)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:29:42 - 2:29:47)
Because this goes from us to them, and ultimately, well, town meeting has the final say.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:47 - 2:30:11)
And they said they spoke to it pretty well on Monday, which they were pretty clear that they're not the ones holding the bag, so to speak, right? I mean, they set policy, and they do a fabulous job, and they made a real concerted effort on Monday night to understand the school department and what they were looking for, which is, again, something that's never been done. So all of this stuff is new stuff that has never typically happened.

They don't scrub the detail.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:12 - 2:30:14)
Right. And that's not their role.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:14 - 2:30:15)
I don't blame them.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:15 - 2:30:18)
The scrubbing is supposed to be done by the town staff.

[Speaker 13] (2:30:19 - 2:30:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:20 - 2:30:37)
So this is encouraging that we're going through this exercise, but it's not easy, and I want to acknowledge that, because that kind of falls on you. I can suggest all I want, and I don't necessarily care who likes it or doesn't, but I do feel for you in this role, and I applaud you for taking it on.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:37 - 2:30:48)
Well, I think ultimately, too, when you read the charter, like, we're the policy-setting... Right. ...body in this town. It's on us. It's not the town administrator's role.

[Speaker 9] (2:30:49 - 2:30:49)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:49 - 2:30:54)
So if our policy is that we're going to try to get this budget to a certain place...

[Speaker 2] (2:30:54 - 2:30:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:54 - 2:30:56)
...then that's what the policy is.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:56 - 2:30:57)
Right, and we have to own that.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:57 - 2:31:13)
You know, and even if it's a really hard decision, if it comes back and we're at that place, then it falls on our shoulders, not on Gino's or anybody in your role, and not on finance committee, either. So...

[Speaker 8] (2:31:15 - 2:31:18)
I will say that Tom Winchler and I are going to continue to have the conversations with the...

[Speaker 5] (2:31:18 - 2:31:19)
Yeah, I applaud you. Thank you.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:19 - 2:31:27)
...the department heads to see, you know, the impact and feasibility of the random numbers that you didn't hear...

[Speaker 13] (2:31:27 - 2:31:28)
Sorry.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:29 - 2:31:45)
...to be able to come forward with those, because, you know, much like Danielle said, it's not easy, but it's easy for me looking at a spreadsheet and being like, oh, mathematically, we can do this, and it would save this much money.

[Speaker 13] (2:31:45 - 2:31:46)
Well, I know.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:47 - 2:31:48)
But I don't run those other departments.

[Speaker 13] (2:31:49 - 2:31:49)
Yes.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:49 - 2:31:52)
So I don't know what that would actually look like.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:52 - 2:31:53)
But that triggers somewhere else.

[Speaker 3] (2:31:53 - 2:32:02)
What are you hearing as far as the cherry sheet and revenue coming from the state, especially as it's been affected by the federal government?

[Speaker 8] (2:32:02 - 2:32:23)
What are their projections? I haven't heard much. I have started to hear from other communities that they budgeted their cherry sheet flat from last year...

What did you... ...just to anticipate the cuts. We did not.

We budgeted ours at the governor's budget... Right. ...because, obviously, we're in this predicament, and we are stretching to that extent.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:23 - 2:32:26)
What was the percentage decrease on the governor's budget?

[Speaker 8] (2:32:27 - 2:32:55)
I can go back to that. But I will say that is something I'm watching. I know there was a meeting of the House Ways and Means the other day.

I didn't get much information on how that went, so I've been anxiously watching how that's impacting. But I will keep you updated as we go through that. It is not letting me access my student file, so I will send you that analysis.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:56 - 2:33:08)
Do you think it was just off the top of your head? Can you think of anything? I mean, we're looking at 3%, 5%.

I don't know why, but I thought it was a little higher.

[Speaker 8] (2:33:09 - 2:33:20)
It was higher. I want to say it was 2.something on unrestricted government, but it was much higher on Chapter 70. Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:33:21 - 2:33:29)
And where do they classify the millionaire's tax? Does that just roll into Chapter 70, or is that identified differently?

[Speaker 8] (2:33:30 - 2:33:44)
So that comes through in a different way. So that comes through in state money for the school lunch and breakfast program. That comes in through a special revenue fund revenue, not through the charity.

[Speaker 3] (2:33:55 - 2:34:00)
So when will we know those numbers? Do you remember? From House Ways and Means?

[Speaker 8] (2:34:00 - 2:34:03)
Yeah. We should have that in the next couple weeks.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:08 - 2:34:40)
Okay. All right, so let's keep this on our agenda, Diane, going forward for every meeting. With that, can we move to the consent agenda?

Do we want to take anything out of the consent agenda? If we don't want to take anything out of the consent agenda, can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? Motion to approve the consent agenda.

Can I have a second? Second. All in favor?

Aye. Aye. Consent agenda.

Now to select board members.

[Speaker 5] (2:34:41 - 2:34:44)
Can I just jump in quick? I'd like to mention something in my TA report.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:44 - 2:34:45)
Sure.

[Speaker 5] (2:34:45 - 2:34:55)
All right. Congratulations to Mark and Kate Noonan on the birth of Ted Carl Noonan, who was born Monday, 9 pounds, 4 ounces.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:55 - 2:34:56)
Nice.

[Speaker 5] (2:34:56 - 2:34:57)
Everyone knows Mark.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:58 - 2:35:00)
Mark's our new DPW man.

[Speaker 5] (2:35:00 - 2:35:05)
Yep. I had a baby Monday and I meant to include it. Sorry, Mark.

[Speaker 3] (2:35:05 - 2:35:06)
Well, congratulations, Mark.

[Speaker 5] (2:35:06 - 2:35:11)
I'm sure he's asleep. I'm sure he's awake. He's probably awake.

I'm sure he's asleep. Yeah, I know. Sure.

[Speaker 3] (2:35:12 - 2:35:23)
Mark, if you're watching, we will run dinner over to you tomorrow. But that's only good until we adjourn. All right, so select board time.

Danielle?

[Speaker 2] (2:35:25 - 2:35:34)
There's a glow dance Friday night at the elementary school. If any of you want to come along, I know it's going to be very exciting. And kids will be glowing in the dark.

[Speaker 3] (2:35:35 - 2:35:40)
But isn't that limited to the people that are ‑‑ isn't there an occupancy?

[Speaker 2] (2:35:40 - 2:36:02)
There is. There is, Mary Ellen. There is a waiting list, I might say, for upper and lower.

So, listen, you'll have to get yourself on the list if you really want a seat there. Yeah, no, I don't. Just again, thank you to Amy and Gino, because I really think you guys did a heck of a job.

And you're doing a heck of a job. So I appreciate it. Yeah, no.

[Speaker 3] (2:36:03 - 2:36:05)
So she's going to get you tickets to the glow dance. I'll get you tickets.

[Speaker 4] (2:36:05 - 2:36:07)
You can take mine if you want.

[Speaker 3] (2:36:07 - 2:36:09)
That's your bonus. That's your bonus.

[Speaker 2] (2:36:09 - 2:36:11)
The lower elementary kids. You get a ticket to the glow dance.

[Speaker 7] (2:36:12 - 2:36:13)
I don't have anything to add.

[Speaker 4] (2:36:15 - 2:37:32)
Katie? Yes, okay, I wrote some things down so they would be concise. The beach sticker art has been chosen.

Danielle, thank you to Danielle Strauss for all the hard work related to that process, hoping we can present something in an upcoming meeting to let you all know what it is and how we got there. But it's a nod to Hadley, which is really nice. Oh, nice.

As Gino said, we, Mary Ellen and I, attended the UV Pilot neighborhood meeting. And I did receive a couple emails post-meeting just on some things that neighbors want us to continue to work on. One doesn't sound very promising, but I'm going to say it anyways.

The removal of the diesel generator in order to mitigate the pollution it causes and the noise it causes. So really pushing for our state delegation to contact National Grid and do the best we can and sort of, again, leave no stone unturned that we are trying to attempt to do that. And whether or not National Grid can come to the table, we can't control that, but we can say we've done everything we could to get them to try to.

Also, they brought up green space disturbance. They said they were glad to hear that the equipment was going to be on the asphalt, but that it makes sure we live by that rule and not put it on the green space.

[Speaker 5] (2:37:33 - 2:37:35)
Actually can't because we don't own the property.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:36 - 2:37:37)
Great. So that one, check.

[Speaker 5] (2:37:38 - 2:37:38)
Check.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:39 - 2:39:39)
And then the removable wall for flooding and backflow. This came up. The culvert that they're going to build inside is removable.

And if there are large rain events or anything in order to prevent the water from coming back in. And I'm not the expert on this, so please tell me to be quiet if I'm not making sense. It's removable so that it does not create any issue with backflow or flooding in that area.

So the neighbors really said, well, who's going to be watching that? And when are we going to make the determination if that wall needs to be removed? So I think, you know, while it's likely not in a 90-day period going to need to be removed, as long as we have a plan in place to understand when that is going to happen and that it gets removed.

Okay. I think this one we already talked about. I would like to ask the chair that we, either the town administrator or maybe on the agenda, maybe in the town administrator's report, it might be best that we add a Pine Street Veterans Crossing update every time we do a town administrator report.

And a Hadley LVA update. You can get those from Marcy. That way we are preventing some of the issues that have been occurring about the lack of information or the misinformation that's coming in.

And we can inform, you know, both the board and the community members what the status updates for those projects are. And then it came up at the special town meeting that there was a call for a Pine Street Veterans Crossing meeting with neighbors, both the Pine Street neighbors and the Burl Street neighbors. So I'd like to prioritize both of those things to occur.

And anything I could do to be helpful in that process, I would be glad to. But also, I believe Wayne Spritz brought up... The Veterans Commission?

The Veterans Council, yeah. And re-initiating a Veterans Council in town.

[Speaker 13] (2:39:39 - 2:39:39)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:40 - 2:39:58)
I think it's a great idea. I think we have a veterans agent. It's not the same thing as what the Veterans Council did.

I could be probably schooled by Mary DiChillo or people who have been here much longer who have seen what Veterans Council has done in the past. But I am intrigued and interested to find out if that is something that can be purposeful.

[Speaker 3] (2:39:58 - 2:40:01)
Do we need to rewrite that description of that council?

[Speaker 7] (2:40:01 - 2:40:27)
I think back from our conversation from March or April of last year, I want to say there were two recommendations. One was to see a housing committee for the Pine Street project. And the other was to see a veterans commission to support these larger scale events.

[Speaker 3] (2:40:27 - 2:40:29)
So it was more like events, not services?

[Speaker 7] (2:40:29 - 2:40:47)
It was more events and fundraising. For services, it's more in the VFW, the DAV, through your VSO. So my understanding is the events, the veterans commission was more events based.

[Speaker 3] (2:40:48 - 2:41:32)
So maybe, why don't we put that on the agenda or next agenda. Because I think we should talk about the description of that. Because I don't think it should just be events.

Or maybe it should be events. But let's have the conversation and maybe get information as to what the last one was. But on the other section of that commission, or I would say committee, we were specifically looking for a committee to put together people to really be a working committee to find the 480 veterans that we have living in town to make sure they are prepared with their assets and things like that to be able to qualify.

For the housing. And we could start that immediately. Diane, you ran a want ad, right?

Yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:41:33 - 2:41:34)
Lots and lots of want ads.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:34 - 2:41:35)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:41:35 - 2:41:36)
And I do have a list of names.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:36 - 2:41:45)
Okay. We can start on that. And then also, we need to start filling our boards.

Yeah. Our boards and committees.

[Speaker 14] (2:41:45 - 2:41:46)
We're working on that too.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:46 - 2:41:49)
Okay. So we'll start putting that up.

[Speaker 2] (2:41:50 - 2:42:06)
Diane's got a whole spreadsheet with them that I'm actually going to test out with her to try to get that on track. Because it's involved. There are a number of boards and some people expire here.

You know, it's staggered. Right.

[Speaker 13] (2:42:08 - 2:42:10)
Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:10 - 2:42:14)
Wow. Right. And we have a timeline.

So I remember I put that timeline.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:14 - 2:42:15)
Yep. Follow that timeline.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:17 - 2:42:57)
Get somebody in there. So are you all finished? I am.

Thank you. That was the whole list. So I just have a couple things.

Well, one is, I just want to update. On the Hadley, we have the last update that we should have had, we had on the Hadley. There was no update other than their need for extended due diligence.

How long does this go on, this due diligence? It's going to be over in about a week. Yeah.

April 1st. So will we hear something at that point? Like, what happens after the week?

So they will come back and they will say, we've done our due diligence and we're ready to go. We've done our due diligence. We're not ready to go.

You know, we're going to need this and this.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:57 - 2:43:04)
When that happens, and they tell, they'll tell Mary Ellen or, I don't know, which one, both of you probably, right?

[Speaker 3] (2:43:04 - 2:43:06)
Well, they'll send it to community development.

[Speaker 2] (2:43:06 - 2:43:08)
Yeah. Adam reached out to community development.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:08 - 2:43:17)
He CC'd me on the extent. Well, actually, I reached out to Adam and I said, how's it going with the due diligence? And he said, I spoke to Margie.

I need an extension on the due diligence. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:43:17 - 2:43:18)
And then she'll give us an update.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:19 - 2:43:22)
She'll tell us. Yeah, that's what I said. Even if the update is there is no update, let's just keep doing it.

[Speaker 2] (2:43:23 - 2:43:23)
Right. Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:23 - 2:44:10)
You know, there's no change. Right. Or, you know, like both of these have very detailed schedules attached to the LBAs that they're meant to follow.

And then as things get pushed, like example, the LBA attached to Hadley is already defunct because it was based on the due diligence period that originally existed. And now they took whatever it was, a couple extra weeks. So we just have to push everything down, but we should be doing it as it's happening so that if somebody were to access, and maybe we are.

So I apologize, Margie, if you've already done this. But if somebody were to go on the website and look at this, you know, this LDA and see the schedule attached, they should know that that schedule is no longer current, and that this is the current schedule, and we should be as transparent as possible as things are happening.

[Speaker 2] (2:44:11 - 2:44:15)
So with every major thing we have going on, I think that same cadence makes sense.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:15 - 2:44:16)
I think we should follow that same cadence, absolutely.

[Speaker 7] (2:44:16 - 2:44:24)
Yeah, and if we're updating through the town administrator's report, that's keeping us abreast of what's happening, and we can post those updates.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:24 - 2:44:37)
But then also making sure that that translates to the documents on the town website. So if somebody didn't hear this meeting, then they go on to the town website and they see the schedule. We should be updated schedule as of such and such a date, and then we could pull the dates.

[Speaker 2] (2:44:37 - 2:44:56)
I think that town website piece of it is really key, because someone had, a constituent had reached out to me saying that not everybody follows the Town of Swampstout Facebook page and social media, right? So we really have to be cognizant of that, of the website being as updated as it can be.

[Speaker 7] (2:44:56 - 2:45:09)
And just to that effect, I know other communities have also included the town administrator's report posted to the website. So in addition to our agendas and our minutes, I think it would be...

[Speaker 3] (2:45:09 - 2:45:10)
Move it separate?

[Speaker 7] (2:45:11 - 2:45:36)
Well, yeah, I think it would be very helpful if we were just capturing that. I know we have played around with the order of the town administrator's report. Sometimes it's first, sometimes it's last, sometimes it's excluded.

But I do think that that really captures the essence of what's going on. So if that's there in a format and that can be uploaded, I think it would be helpful to convey...

[Speaker 3] (2:45:36 - 2:45:42)
Right, so just keep it in our minutes, but also we pull it and put town administrator's report so somebody can pull it up.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:42 - 2:45:49)
Almost this whole packet, like anything that we're getting a presentation of or we're presented to, right? Well, that's in our minutes.

[Speaker 8] (2:45:49 - 2:45:55)
It's in the minutes. It is in the minutes? I think the school committee does a good job with it, where on their agenda, it actually has the blue link.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:55 - 2:45:59)
Yeah, they have the... It's our... You click their agenda and all this stuff comes up.

Maybe you can show that to Diane.

[Speaker 7] (2:46:00 - 2:46:01)
Yeah, I just think it's...

[Speaker 3] (2:46:01 - 2:46:14)
Yeah, it's a good idea. So on the Hadley, I am anticipating... I'm just thinking that we're probably gonna have to be doing some negotiating when they come back.

Why do you think that?

[Speaker 4] (2:46:14 - 2:46:16)
Well, they... Let's not... I mean, they haven't come back yet.

[Speaker 3] (2:46:16 - 2:46:54)
I'm just preparing. I just... Because you're...

Because the extension of the due diligence, you think? The extension of due diligence, it's pretty normal. Okay.

Pretty normal. So just anticipate it. Okay.

All right? Yeah. Just always anticipate.

Well, I don't want any surprises. So as far as my stuff, I just want to bring up on the retirement, out of my committees, the retirement board will be putting in an article into the warrant. The retirement board will be looking for an additional COLA increase.

So we'll have that in there to... Tell them to get in line.

[Speaker 8] (2:46:56 - 2:47:05)
It's all... They were here the other night. It's the COLA base, not the COLA percentage itself.

Yeah. So if you remember a couple of years ago, the COLA base increased to 14,000.

[Speaker 4] (2:47:05 - 2:47:06)
Yeah. Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:47:06 - 2:47:07)
So...

[Speaker 4] (2:47:07 - 2:47:08)
That's... So they want to increase the base again.

[Speaker 3] (2:47:08 - 2:47:26)
Right. It's just... I want to make sure I bring it up.

The select board, the finance committee, they do not have to support it. However, it's going to be... There will be an article.

We have to get an article in there for them. So they will be sending us an article. And then...

I have the article. You already have it ready?

[Speaker 8] (2:47:27 - 2:47:28)
It's the same article as last week.

[Speaker 3] (2:47:28 - 2:47:39)
Yeah, same article. We did it last week. Same article we do all the time.

Exactly. Right. All right.

And that's it for me. So if we can have a motion to adjourn. So moved.

Second. All in favor... Oh, wait, wait, wait.

[Speaker 13] (2:47:39 - 2:47:40)
I do have one thing.

[Speaker 3] (2:47:40 - 2:47:51)
Can you also put on the town website for the UV pilot, we promised to make sure on the website that there would be a banner that the neighbors could go to to find out what's happening with the UV pilot.

[Speaker 4] (2:47:51 - 2:47:59)
Maybe we can move to the... Is there a data there on the water sewer infrastructure? Is there a website?

We linked to their website.

[Speaker 3] (2:47:59 - 2:48:09)
We linked to... I just want to make sure... We should make sure we link to...

I want to make sure that it has its own separate thing so neighbors could go to and they're not... We promise they're not searching and going through anything for it.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:09 - 2:48:13)
But whatever... Diane, whatever we need to link to, we will figure that part out.

[Speaker 5] (2:48:17 - 2:48:18)
That's what we want to do.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:18 - 2:48:20)
Yeah. That's what we want to link to.

[Speaker 5] (2:48:20 - 2:48:20)
All right.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:20 - 2:48:22)
We're having some trouble finding it.

[Speaker 5] (2:48:22 - 2:48:24)
We want to make sure we're both on the same page, both communities.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:25 - 2:48:25)
A little.

[Speaker 3] (2:48:26 - 2:48:32)
Can we have a motion to adjourn? I already did that. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Aye.

Good night.

[Speaker 4] (2:48:32 - 2:48:33)
Night. Thank you.