[Speaker 5] (0:07 - 0:37) . [Speaker 2] (0:42 - 1:48) . We haven't done this in a while. . . . . . . [Speaker 4] (1:55 - 2:02) . . . . [Speaker 6] (2:02 - 2:02) . . . [Speaker 2] (2:06 - 3:20) . . . . . . [Speaker 6] (3:20 - 3:39) . . . [Speaker 4] (3:44 - 4:24) . . . . . . . . . . . . [Speaker 6] (4:24 - 4:24) . [Speaker 4] (4:26 - 4:30) Hello, I don't think it's on. I don't think it's on. [Speaker 1] (4:31 - 4:34) The light's on. I think he's working on it. [Speaker 4] (4:50 - 4:52) Is that better? No. [Speaker 6] (5:08 - 5:13) I don't think it... Oh, they're working on it. [Speaker 1] (5:13 - 5:13) They're going to fix it. They are? [Speaker 6] (5:14 - 5:16) Oh, they're working on it? Yeah. [Speaker 3] (5:22 - 5:24) I think you have to wait because of the recording. [Speaker 4] (5:26 - 5:27) The cameras. [Speaker 7] (5:34 - 5:35) Check, check, check. [Speaker 3] (6:30 - 6:32) You could, you're welcome to it. [Speaker 6] (6:36 - 6:40) One second, I'm sorry. Yep. Okay. [Speaker 7] (7:14 - 7:21) Check, check, check. One, two. Check, one, two. Check, check, check. Check, one, two. Test, one, two, three, four. [Speaker 1] (7:26 - 7:31) No, not yet. Today they're supposed to follow up. Not me. [Speaker 4] (7:34 - 8:00) Hello. Hello. Is that better? That's better. Good? Okay. Really quick, I'll reintroduce our candidates. Challenger Liz Smith, incumbent Katie Phelan, and incumbent Mary Ellen Fletcher. Before I introduce the rules of the debate, each candidate will be given a three-minute opening statement, starting with Mary Ellen. [Speaker 2] (8:11 - 9:52) Hi. I'm Mary Ellen Fletcher. And before we start, I would just like to say thank you to each and every one of you and to Joe Doulet and this gentleman here for bringing us this production. I'd like to thank the Republican Party, the Democrat Party, everybody for being here. And I'd also like to especially thank the Lynn Item. And I'd like to remind everyone how important it is to have local news. And the Lynn Item is only $99 a year for 24-hour access. So, before I begin, I just want to make sure that everyone knows how much I was a single parent. I raised my niece here. I was a Girl Scout leader. I coached middle school field hockey. I am a town meeting member. I was a proud, I am still a proud member of the 1988 Olympic team. And more importantly, I think I'm a really good listener. I'm a great friend. And I'm somebody that knows how to get things done. My number one concern is fiscal responsibility. It always has been, and it probably always will be. And taking care of our beautiful community. I pride myself in reaching out to citizens and coming up with solutions on how to fix problems, not just pointing out problems nonstop. We have challenging times facing us. I know you're all watching the news, seeing what's happening, and these are critical times that you have somebody sitting on the select board that knows this town and knows how to work within our financial constraints. So thank you. I hope you vote for me at our next election. [Speaker 4] (9:54 - 9:55) And next up, Katie. [Speaker 1] (9:59 - 11:43) Thank you to the Swanscott Democratic and Republican town committees in conjunction with The Daily Item and 01907 Magazine for hosting this event, and to everyone who's here tonight and watching from home. I also want to take a moment to thank all of the candidates and their families. Running for office is not easy, and I recognize the time and energy and personal sacrifice it takes to step up and serve this community. I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak directly to you, not just as a candidate but as your neighbor, as somebody deeply committed to the future of Swanscott. I'd like to share a little bit about myself. Many of you know a feeling, whether it was going through Swanscott Public Schools with my husband, John, or one of his siblings, Helene, Aaron, or Michael, serving on a board or committee with my father-in-law, or being treated at Lynn Hospital by my mother-in-law. Our feeling roots in this town are very deep. And while I was securing $3.5 million in sewer revolving funds to repair infrastructure and enhance the shoreline's health, economic growth, and strategic partnership like the Hadley LDA, and supporting the school budget by a fully collaborative process. My focus is advocating for projects that reflect our shared values. My focus has, and always will be, and will continue to be on doing the right thing, not the easy thing. My obligation to you is this, to listen with an open heart, to lead with integrity, and to be honest, even when it's hard. That's how trust is built, and that's how our community moves forward. That's the kind of leadership I believe we deserve. I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation tonight. And to showing you, not just telling you, how I plan to keep working for all of us. Thank you. [Speaker 3] (11:44 - 14:45) And lastly, Liz. Hi, I'm Liz Smith, and I want to thank the Democratic and Republican town committees and the Lynn Daily Item for sponsoring this forum, and all of you for being here. Most of you probably know me from my work on the beaches. We moved here 10 years ago, and living within walking distance of Kings Beach was a dream. It's crushing that we are known for having the dirtiest beach in Massachusetts. It's bad enough that the families who flock here on nice summer days can't swim here, but also because of the harm that reputation does to our town. Think of the lost opportunity. Families who won't buy a house here, hotels who might not build here, and vendors who aren't successful because there's just not enough foot traffic to keep them in business. I went to UMass Amherst, taught English in China, and received a Master's in Management from MIT. I've managed a $760 million business with staff of 95 in seven countries. I love hard work and making positive change. I've led corporate reorganization efforts and served on a new charter school board. I direct a handbell choir and chair the Water and Sewer Infrastructure Committee here in town. When I and others started working diligently to bring attention to Kings Beach, the select board wasn't even discussing the pollution. Now every person whose door I knock on knows about it. I will bring the same determination and effort to the select board. We have challenges. The fiscal 26 budget proposed by the select board has the largest tax increase in at least 10 years, and it doesn't fully fund the school committee's proposed budget. If we don't close that gap, the schools will lay off seven to eight teachers and reduce core programs. The relations between select board chair and school committee have reached a new level. I care about the schools. I'm the only candidate who has been committed to fully funding the school's budget from day one. My daughter was entering fifth grade when we moved here. She was born in Sri Lanka. English is her second language. She didn't live in the U.S. until she was eight and entered middle school with significant gaps in language and math skills. We chose Swampscott for the schools, for the warm and welcoming staff, the special education and English language learning support, and she thrived. We have enormous gratitude for the teachers, specialists, and administrators who supported her. I have taught in all the schools but the new one as a substitute teacher, as a title one math tutor, as a classroom aide at Hadley. I know firsthand the challenges teachers face. It's not enough to build a new building. We have to staff it and equip it for success. That is the foundation of a high-performing school district. I have a proven track record in business, on a committee, ringing a handbell, and in a classroom. I'm hardworking, dedicated, thorough, and fair. I love Swampscott and the people of Swampscott and ask for the opportunity to put my energy to work to help us achieve Swampscott's potential. Thank you. [Speaker 4] (14:46 - 15:14) Now to introduce the rules of the first part of the debate. Each candidate will be asked the same question, which will be answered in a rotating order, starting with Liz. The first question being, with Swampscott public schools facing a critical funding need where further cuts would likely impact staff or core programs, how would you balance that demand with the needs of other town services like public safety, DPW, and senior services? Thank you, Elizabeth. [Speaker 3] (15:15 - 16:43) The budget that's proposed for this year, as I said, has the largest tax increase in many years, at least a decade. There are many competing interests for our dollars. There are schools that need to be funded in order for us to maintain our reputation for educational excellence. There are safety programs, police and fire, who need to be funded. And I'm really upset that the promised financial summit that was supposed to happen last summer never took place. After the debacle that happened at a no-time meeting last spring, there was a promise made by the select board to have a financial summit over the summer. We knew we were coming to the edge of a cliff. We knew that the dollars that were planned for this year and also for next year were going to be less, and that we had been using interest on the loan for the new school to cover some of our operating expenses, and that that was not going to continue. So the first thing I would do, if elected to the select board, is call for a summit, a financial summit, so that we can work out these issues, so we can really look into our receipts and planned revenues and our expenses, and we can determine how we can meet the needs of Swampscott before town meeting, so that we don't have that type of situation this year. [Speaker 4] (16:44 - 16:45) Thank you. [Speaker 1] (16:46 - 19:32) And Katie. Sure. So as a current sitting select board member, I'll tell you about what we've done so far. So many of the select board members have come forward with multiple, thoughtful, well-established ideas of how to close this gap. You know, my colleague Danielle put forward probably 72 different line items that went, Gino and Amy Sorrow went through to determine whether or not those cuts could be made on the town side. That's not looking through the school's line items and saying, these are where we're going to cut the school, because we value that the school did that when they proposed their budget to us in the first place. I think that the reason, I want to touch really quickly on the financial summit. To Liz's point, the financial summit did not happen, and wish it did too, but it hasn't. So what we, what select board members decided to do was to make sure that this process that we went through this year did not end up like it ended up last year on town meeting floor. I stood on town meeting floor and asked everybody to reconsider that vote, because I felt like the process hadn't been gone through. I can't do that this year. We have gone through this process painstakingly, from what I feel like, from the town side, to look where we can make this gap smaller. I can't promise today that we are going to close the gap in totality by cutting services. I don't know that to be true, so I won't say that to you. But I can say that we will continue to do the work until the day we go to town meeting if we have to, to try and figure out how we can close the gap in order to affect the taxpayer in the least way possible. That's the best I can do, and I think it's really the best you're going to be able to do in this situation, because at some point we have to decide whether we are going to keep the level of services we have in this town, and that might cost taxpayers more, or we are comfortable where our taxes are, and therefore we must give on our services. It's just, mathematically, we do not have the commercial and residential taxes coming in in order to subsidize the amount of services that people are calling for. So you have to wear all the hats, and you have to balance all the things, but if at the end of the day you trust and value that everybody came to the table in an honest, transparent process, then you come to the community in that process and you say, this is where we ended up, and unfortunately this is the tough decision we may have to make about potentially increasing taxes or cutting services, and that's not just at the school, that's at the town site too. [Speaker 4] (19:33 - 19:35) Thank you. And lastly, Mary Ellen. [Speaker 2] (19:36 - 22:15) So I agree with everything Katie said, there's a couple of things we should talk about first, let's talk about town meeting last year, and what people call the fiasco. I don't look at it like it was a fiasco, really. Sure it was uncomfortable, you know, democracy is uncomfortable, but what you had was, you had the chair of the school committee representing what was agreed upon, you had the superintendent and the business manager of the schools saying that they were going to be able to work their budget within the means that was given to them by the town administrator, they did their job, everything went through the finance committee, and then all of a sudden, four members of the school committee did what they're allowed to do, they were allowed to do that, stand up and disrupt town meeting. Now, for me, I'm not too worried about people getting up and using their democratic right and going through a process and trying to make things work a little bit differently. Now, was it uncomfortable? Yeah, it was uncomfortable. Did it affect our budget in the end? No, it didn't affect the budget in the end because we were able to work things out. Did it really point out something serious for all of us in the community? The schools need more money. So, in the long run, I think, you know, there was a lot of good with it. In the short run, it got a lot of people upset. We're now going to the summit. So, our town meeting is at the end of May. If there's anybody in their right mind that thought we were going to have a summit in the middle of the summer, they just don't understand how towns work. So, we proceed into the fall. Town staff was doing an enormous amount of work putting together information, and it just didn't happen because we did have a changeover at town hall. That's just the facts. So, if you want to sit there and keep screaming about we didn't have a summit, it is what it is. I think this budget is going to come to a good ending. I think we just all have to work together, scrub the budgets, maybe consolidate some staff positions. But sitting and taking shots at each other, you know, being just, I don't even have a word for it. But that's not going to get us where we need to get. We need to work as a community and just relax and work these numbers out. [Speaker 4] (22:17 - 22:39) Thank you. Now, to our second question, which will go to Katie first. How would you increase housing options in Swampscot, particularly for seniors on fixed incomes and working families struggling with rising costs? And how would you plan for the impact that added development could have on the town's infrastructure, such as schools, traffic, and utilities? [Speaker 1] (22:40 - 24:35) That's a great question, Elizabeth, because, again, it harkens back to the idea of balance, right? And the tough part about increasing housing is also increasing the services need, the need of services that come out of whomever sits in those houses, right? And that means it's going to be a strain on maybe the school system, definitely water, sewer, trash, all the things that cost this town money. And so I think what is, what we need to do is we need to be thoughtful about how we introduce housing. I mean, we agreed to 3A, we passed 3A in town. So that means that by right, we can have more density. Instead of a special permit or dimensional requirements, certain areas can be more dense than others. And we designated those areas, which we felt like could handle those densities. That doesn't mean that the conversation stops there. That means that the conversation starts there. So as we are thinking about how dense these areas that we've designated can be, we need to be having conversations with community members, we need to be having conversations with neighbors, we need to be having conversations with police, fire, and schools to understand how that increase is going to impact them. Because we can invite more people into our community and make it the most incredible place, more incredible than it is, but if we can't afford to then keep the goods and services, then we will actually be doing to our detriment. So I think we need to find the balance. I think it's about making sure that wherever, we've already designated those more dense areas and that we remain mindful of the communities in those areas and how we weave that density into that community in such a way that it doesn't deter from who they are, but it is additive. [Speaker 4] (24:36 - 24:38) Thank you. And now Mary Ellen. [Speaker 1] (24:38 - 24:39) Would you mind repeating the question? [Speaker 4] (24:39 - 24:56) Yeah. How would you increase housing options in Swampscott, particularly for seniors on fixed incomes, and working families struggling with rising costs? And how would you plan for the impact that added development could have on the town's infrastructure such as schools, traffic, and utilities? [Speaker 2] (24:57 - 27:05) So I like this question. And I've just spent the last four days dealing with multiple phone calls from people that live near the new development, the Westcott. The traffic, the impact on the construction, the dust, the noise. It's brutal. It is absolutely brutal for them. And yet we also need new housing. Now we have sections of our community that has quite a bit of acreage, a lot of room. And what I'd really like to see is whether or not we have tax incentives or something to get people to build additional units onto their property. If that's at all possible. I recently had a conversation with an organization that talks about affordable housing. And there are federal grants involved that we can actually use to make changes in historic homes. So I think things like that, if we can look at different initiatives, I think that would be a big plus. I also think that making sure that we really have a good handle on what's happening with our infrastructure, which we are, that's going to help. The traffic, especially on this side of town, I think it's out of control. I do believe we need to address housing. But I also believe that this side of town is just getting hammered way too much. We have to start looking at precinct 4, 5, and 6 and see what can be done over there. The other thing I want to focus on is our board of assessors is very busy looking at tax exemptions and how we could qualify for different tax exemptions. We're real lucky this year that we have a, it's called a board of assessor agent. So our board of assessors are elected positions and then we have a board of, we have an assessor agent who works for the town. He's super knowledgeable. And he's looking into how we can get tax exemptions for seniors. We also have the senior work off plan. And every senior could pretty much qualify for that and jump in and get a little bit of relief on their taxes. And hopefully we can expand that too. So that's it. [Speaker 4] (27:06 - 27:07) Thank you. And lastly, Liz. [Speaker 3] (27:08 - 27:13) Can you repeat it one more time? I know there's two parts, so I want to make sure I catch them both. [Speaker 4] (27:13 - 27:29) How would you increase housing options in Swampscott, particularly for seniors on fixed incomes and working families struggling with rising costs? And would you plan, how would you plan for the impact that added development could have on the town's infrastructure, such as schools, traffic, and utilities? [Speaker 3] (27:30 - 30:05) Okay, thank you. So we can all agree that Swampscott is overly dense, right? It's very dense. I would say in, when I go door to door, I've knocked on hundreds of doors by now. When I'm precincts one and two, the one thing that people mentioned to me, the common refrain is, what do you think about the Westcott? So I know that that building, that the density, the size, the impact that that is going to have on the neighborhood is a failed process. Something went wrong. And it's partly because we don't have the 10% minimum that we need of affordable housing in order to avoid 40B. It's partly because I don't think that we're getting enough community input and engagement when we're putting in buildings like the Westcott or even Pine Street. I think everyone could agree that the process didn't follow a good community engagement process from the get-go on either one of those. And the one thing that the Water and Sewer Committee has been talking about and will take up in the fall is, do we have a good plan in place? Do we have good bylaws? Are we regulating the amount of development that we're doing and what it's going to do to our infrastructure? So not just our utilities, but our underground infrastructure. We already know that at Pine Street we have capacity issues, and yet we're putting in another 40 units over there. So all of these things need to be taken into account. We need a really good process for how we're going to address bringing in the affordable housing that we do need. We do need it. But we need to be mindful and planful. We need to have community engagement. We need to, for a year or more, we haven't had a traffic committee. So we haven't had that kind of input on what would have happened with Westcott. And these are the kind of things that need to be in place so that when we are planning for the affordable housing that will serve our seniors and serve our low-income families, that we're prepared for it. I also did some visiting at our public housing, and I think we need to pay a lot more attention to what's going on at our public housing and make sure that they are up to snuff. We have people living in multi-story buildings who have walkers, and they have to walk up a flight of stairs to get to their apartment on the second floor. So I think there's a lot of things that we could be doing to improve in this area. [Speaker 4] (30:06 - 30:16) Thank you. Thank you. And our next question, which will go to Mary Ellen first, is, with a potential deficit next year, would you consider raising taxes? [Speaker 2] (30:18 - 31:38) With a potential deficit next year? There's no potential. We're going to have a deficit next year. And we are going to have to raise taxes. The question is, how high are we going to have to raise taxes? And our worry shouldn't be about next year. It should be about the next four years. That's why we've got to really, really take our time and scrub these budgets. Danielle Leonard went in there and really examined the town budget, went line by line, and I think that this is something that's really critical. And we need to understand that these are serious times, not just with what's happening here and locally, but what's happening federally. You know, we're very vulnerable about to what kind of grants we're going to get, what type of funding we're going to get. The state could get hit pretty tough, pretty hard, excuse me, on federal funding, which will affect our state funding. These are very serious times, and the fact that I feel that we need to take a lot of time to really work on these budgets and really scrub them, consolidate different positions if we have to, figure it out, that's what we need to do. But it's just not this year, folks. It's going to be the next couple years. [Speaker 4] (31:39 - 31:40) Thank you. And Liz? [Speaker 3] (31:43 - 34:13) So I'm going to go back to the financial summit, because we knew this was going to happen, and we didn't plan for it, and we should have. And now we've broken down the trust. There's a lack of trust between some members of the select board and the school committee, and that trust has been building, that lack of trust has been building over a number of years, and it's really, I think, coming to a head. And I wanted to say that we're way behind on the process, even without the financial summit. The select board is supposed to take a look and vote on the budget that the town administrator presents by March 1st, and then it goes to the FinCom, and it's already been looked at. And the school committee's budget was available to the select board on January 20th, and there was a joint meeting of the school committee, the select board, and the finance committee on January 23rd. And if you go back and watch that, very few questions were asked. Almost all of them were by the finance committee. Almost none of them were by the select board. So I feel like our process is really a mess this year. We're really late. We didn't do the homework up front, and now we're paying the price. We don't have all the detail that we need. We don't have all the information that we need. And if we don't put everyone, and we have the lack of trust. So if we don't put everyone around a table, select board, school committee, finance committee, and town staff, and school superintendent, and business manager, how will we ever get to the bottom of it? How will we ever resolve it? Yes, we are going to have to raise taxes, but we're really fortunate that we have nearly $8 million of excess levy capacity, because we have squeezed for the last 10 years. And one of the things that really spoke to me over the last few months of the budget process is Pam Angelakis, the superintendent, twice in two separate meetings saying, I've had it. I've had enough. We've been squeezed, and squeezed, and squeezed, and I'm not putting up with it anymore. We're not cutting our budget anymore. If you don't give us the $660,000 that was reduced out of the school committee budget to go into the town budget, then we'll lose seven to eight teachers, and we'll cut core programs. I don't think that a town like Swampscott that wants to pride itself on educational excellence should be looking at doing that. Thank you. And finally, Katie. [Speaker 1] (34:15 - 37:18) Okay. So, we've established we failed to have a financial summit, but what we did do this year that we haven't done in the last three years that I have been part of this board is that we did all sit at a table together. We had a joint meeting, which the school board presented, I'm sorry, the school committee presented their budget, and allowed FinCom and select board to ask questions. We have had a more collaborative process this year than I have ever seen, granted I have not been here as long as Mary Ellen, so it's not quite as long, but that I have ever seen. So I think that while sure we can dwell on the fact that a summit didn't happen, we should rejoice in the fact that we got ourselves together, and we course corrected in order to have us all at the table. And you know, for the time that I've been on the board, tri-chair meetings have been taking place, and typically the chair comes back and reports what happens at tri-chair or the town administrator is coming back and saying what was happening at tri-chair. I think for the first couple of years you take it for what it is. You think that what they're reporting back is what's happening. And I think we all realized when what happened at town meeting happened, that we need to be asking way more questions, and that what was being reported to us is through a lens, and it wasn't our own lens, and we needed to see things for ourselves. And so we became more active in the process, I became more active in the process, I think a lot of us became more active in the process. I've spent more time thinking about not just school budget, but our budget, and you know, talking to folks on FinCom, thinking about capital improvements, thinking about all these things. I also want to say that the financial summit, the benefit of the financial summit was not just the budget. It was thinking about the guide rails that we had put on ourselves for the last seven years. Do those guide rails, do the guide posts still make sense right now, right? And I think for a period of time they did, and that allowed us to, you know, accumulate that surplus in levy capacity, and now we have to think, okay, we're in a much different financial position than we were when we took those guide rails on. And so the summit really needs to be about what is going to work for us in the future. And I think we've all established it's not going to work for us, what we have right now is not going to work for us in the future, but what will work for us in the future. I think there needs to be long-term planning for school, police, and fire that is able to sustain a smaller budget. We can't just tell them they have a smaller budget and expect that they're going to be able to utilize it. We need to help them, we need to give them the tools to utilize it, and whether that's helping overtime, whether that's discussing into the future, not just this year, we forecast five years, we forecast ten years out, we need to be saying this is what the impacts are going forward, and this is how we can alleviate some of those impacts in a slope period on the rise. That's my feeling about it. Thank you. [Speaker 4] (37:18 - 37:32) And our final question, which will be asked to Liz first, is the town has acquired multiple properties that are currently unutilized. How would you make use of these properties? Do you support funding additional properties? [Speaker 3] (37:39 - 39:30) So some of those properties are the Hawthorne parcel, the Archer Street property. And I support using Hawthorne for the purpose that it was acquired for. It was acquired three years ago, and it was stated that it would be open space. We've been spending over $300,000 a year to hold onto that property and not do anything with it, and I think it's time to get moving. We lost a whole year, the whole last year, without any sort of process or committee or anything looking at it because we were supposedly looking at potentially purchasing the St. John's Church parking lot. I don't know how we can consider purchasing additional land when we're still paying for the land that we purchased that we did nothing with and when we're in such a tough budget situation. So while that might be a nice dream, I don't think it's realistic. I have a vision that uses the Hawthorne property and overlooks a beautiful, pristine beach that's cleaned up, that is swimmable, that brings people to town and keeps people to town and provides foot traffic for the businesses on Humphrey Street and is a corollary to what I hope will be a Hadley Hotel, although I'm concerned because for the second time the due diligence on that project has been delayed, and I don't know what that means because the select board isn't really talking about it. So my vision for Swampscott is a really lovely town that people come to, that they can swim at the beaches, that they shop at shops, they eat at restaurants, and then eventually we have a pedestrian corridor that's lovely and goes out to the train station, and it really expands our view of what the town could be like. [Speaker 1] (39:31 - 42:33) Thank you. And next, Katie. So I'll take the easier part of that question first, which is if I support acquiring more property, and the easy answer is to say absolutely not, we just spent the last four questions talking about how terrible the budget is and how we have absolutely no funds, and we can't support our schools, so how could you support another piece of property? That's the easiest part of the question. The hard part is some of these are once in a lifetime opportunities that we may never see again. And so you have to consider that when you wear this hat. Like will three years from now, five years from now, 10 years from now, will we ever have the opportunity to have that property even be considered to be part of the town's projects going forward? And timing's everything. So for me, I think the easy part would be to say no, absolutely, how could you? But the real analysis is I can't answer that question. Because while I would love to say no, if it's a once in a lifetime opportunity, and there's a way we can utilize it or fund it through grant funding, or there's a state program that we can use to fund it, or we're going to use it for open space and we can designate it a certain way and help, yeah, there absolutely would be a possibility where I would support that. But I have to understand the impact to the taxpayer first before I make that decision. The second part of the question is I think about, really about Hawthorne, or the underutilized properties that we have, which is mostly probably talking about the Hawthorne property. Two things. One, I don't have a vision for that property because I'm one community member of 15,000 community members here. My vision when I'm on the board, sure I have it, I maybe talk to my husband about it, or my friends, but it doesn't matter. That's not what I'm here to promote. I'm here to promote your visions, the majority's visions. And that's why we decided to go forward. We didn't, I don't want to, we did not spend a year thinking about buying the St. John's property and leaving the Hawthorne without consideration. We spent a year with a consultant working on a process for the Hawthorne property. That process came forward with a couple of ideas, the idea that was brought forward did not feel like it was welcomed by the community. So we course corrected. And that's what you want a good leader to do. You want you to see, read the room, right? The room wasn't enjoying it. So we course correct. And in order to do that we created a committee, we sat a committee, and it will hopefully function similar to the Hadley process, where they'll think about all of the ideas that come forward for this community. And then they'll make a decision based on that, and they'll bring three of those ideas forward to the select board, and the select board will be able to make a decision from that point. But the point is, it's a collaborative process with the community members. And you know, my vision is that we come together and a majority of us decide what happens to that property, and we don't leave it just the way it is, unless that's what you want. And then I'll make sure that's what happens too. Thank you. And lastly, Mary Ellen. [Speaker 2] (42:34 - 45:37) Okay. So I'm going to answer that similarly to how Katie answered it, but I'm a little bit more positive about buying another piece of property. I want to buy that parking lot, and I want to figure out how we can pay for it. And we do have an option, whoops, want me to start again? So well, you all heard. So I do believe that we can buy that property. I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty close. I think we can buy that property. We have a fund in town. We have a little bit over, I think, $350,000 sitting in a fund that we can only use it on property, purchasing property. So I spoke with the town treasurer, Patrick Luddy, to ask about what would it take to be able to purchase this, and what would be the capital operating expenses as far as our debt long-term. We could look at purchasing that land and banning it for 2027, 2028, and it would not hit our capital expenses until 2029, which means we could literally purchase the property and start to develop the property within two years before it even hits our capital. We also have to look and see what is coming off of our capital and what has to go onto our capital. So there's just a lot of moving parts in there. I'm not in a position where I want to be a naysayer and negative about everything and complain about everything. I want to find solutions and to see if it can work. If we can purchase that property, we will have the entire area that we can work with. Who knows? We could end up purchasing that property and make it 100% conservation, and we could end up selling part of the other property. There's just a million different ideas that we could have out there that would work. The number one goal would be to make sure it's not a cost center, but it's a spot where we bring in some revenue and we have open space. The whole idea is to really make everything work. As far as the other properties, Hadley is under an LDA. They are doing their due diligence. They're not doing their due diligence in 30 days. Due diligence on a historic building is pretty extensive. It takes a little while. They're really wonderful people. We'll be talking to them within the next 10 days again. The Archer, I think they met this morning to go over the grant that we have for plans. That's pretty much it. Just so you know, if we do buy the parking lot, the church will be putting a parking lot behind the church, and they will allow for municipal parking for the whole town free of cost. That's a big thing. It's 80 to 100 spots. [Speaker 4] (45:37 - 45:56) Thank you. Now, moving on to the next session, each candidate will now have the opportunity to ask a question to a fellow candidate. They will have three minutes to respond to the questions, and it was chosen at random as to who gets to ask whom first. Katie, you get to ask your question first to either candidate. [Speaker 1] (45:57 - 47:13) Okay. So I do just, before I ask my question, I want to say, last time I did this, we got to ask a question to each of the candidates, and I felt like, number one, that gives you guys a little bit more information because both of the candidates get to answer a question, and number two, it's a little bit more fair, and I know that that's not how it's happening tonight, but I just want to say that because I thought of all the wonderful things that you guys brought forward for the forum, I thought that going forward, we should be thoughtful of engagement for the community's benefit and not for discord. So my question is for Mary Ellen. So I think you, in your opening remarks, called yourself a fiscally conservative person, and then you listed a bunch of backgrounds, including the Mass Association for Town Finance Committee, the Swanscuff Income, capital improvements. And so I guess it's safe to say your primary motivation is a fiscally conservative standpoint. How do you balance that with the broader needs and priorities of Swanscuff? Did I say conservative? I don't know. Did you? [Speaker 2] (47:14 - 47:14) Earlier? [Speaker 1] (47:15 - 47:16) Oh, sorry, I inserted that. [Speaker 2] (47:16 - 50:10) Okay. That's okay. I'm not going to put you on Facebook tonight. I don't know. So I wouldn't classify myself as conservative, Katie. I would say I'm responsible. I'm financially responsible. Maybe a little conservative at times, but more responsible, more responsible. You have to remember, my background is finances. I'm the oldest of four. I own my own business. I'm a single parent, and I'm always worried about dollars. And that's who I am. I would say that I'm more focused on having to meet the needs of the entire community with the limited amount of resources we have. So how do we make it work? How do we give relief to people that really need relief? How do we keep people in a position where they're able to still live here? When I'm knocking on doors, I'm hearing seniors constantly saying, I'm going to have to move. I can't live. There was a woman down the block from me who ended up moving a few years ago. She was a really wonderful lady. But at the time, she couldn't have any type of cable or TV. She ended up shutting off her telephone. These are really serious times. The issue is we have pretty big extremes in our community of what people have financially. So that's a big issue. As far as the rest of the question, I mean, there are plenty of times where I have voted to support something where I'm always getting yelled at. So I voted to support the mobile TV unit we have for the recreation department. Do I think $100,000 spend on a mobile TV is really financially responsible? Well, I'm going to leave that question out. But I think that it's priceless when it comes to community involvement and community engagement and people can come out, all different ages come out and enjoy it. When we were putting out, the capital committee voted several years ago to put in these nice little lights down Humphrey Street. I was completely against that because we have kids sitting in our middle school having to wear raincoats with bad windows. So things like that, I've been completely against. You know, I support spending when it makes sense. And I ask the question, does this really make sense? Is this sustainable? Do we really need multiple positions, both in the school and the town? Can we consolidate? Can we do things? There's just a lot of questions we have to just keep asking. So I would say financially responsible, not super conservative. [Speaker 4] (50:11 - 50:13) Thank you. And now Liz. [Speaker 3] (50:17 - 50:44) So Katie, as you know, I've attended almost every select board meeting in the past couple of years, maybe three years. And I've heard you talk about a lot of things that are important to you. I appreciate your focus on some of the community initiatives like affordable family events and creating a community center. They are good ideas. Is there one project in particular that will be your focus if you are elected? [Speaker 1] (50:46 - 53:53) Well, there's an amazing project happening right now with DEI in town. We hired a wonderful consultant to help us determine what we really think about ourselves as a community. And that's a really deep, tough question. And not everybody has the same answer for sure. But it's not the answer that's important. It's the process. Because within the process, we're going to hear a lot of information that the schools, select board, and other town committees and boards should be utilizing to determine how they develop the future of Swampscot. If our community is saying, we really value our connection to the coast, and we value the fishing community that we have, and the fish house, and that relationship, and we value the pier, and we don't want to see it go down. Well, that tells Harbor and Water how to gear where they're going towards for the future of the pier. For other projects, like for school, the school has wonderfully utilized DEI in its teachings for a while. And the town is catching up. But what I'd like to see is a collaboration between the schools and towns going forward based on what you guys already know and what we are going to learn through this process in order to make sure that we are putting forward the best version of ourselves. I already said, I'm not from Swampscot. My husband was born and raised here. And the most wonderful conversations I have are with him talking about the version of Swampscot I see and the version of Swampscot he sees. And it's not the same. And a lot of it has to do with the fact where, you know, I'll bring something up and he'll be like, well, 15 years ago, so-and-so did something about this and that. And this is the background about how we got here. We can't go into the future without our history. But so many of us are like me and they don't know the history. They walk into a room and they want to volunteer for a board and they step on a landmine because they said something that they didn't know happened 15 years ago. And so I'm trying to figure out how to diffuse that a little bit so that the folks who have been here and love Swampscot and want to see Swampscot be what it has been for their kids and for them, it's not discouraging for people like me to come in the room and say what I want to say, too, and be open to it and honest about it. And I'm hopeful that the DEI project will be a stepping stone in that direction. And I'm hopeful if we continue with projects like that, that all of these wonderful voices that are coming to town from places all over Massachusetts and the United States and the world will feel like they have a place at the table. And it's not just the same people we see all the time. And that doesn't mean those people have to leave. It just means that we make space. Okay, sorry. [Speaker 4] (53:55 - 53:57) And lastly, Mary Ellen. [Speaker 2] (54:01 - 54:05) Seeing as how you're still warm, I'll give you a question. [Speaker 1] (54:05 - 54:06) Do you want me to keep going on that one? [Speaker 2] (54:06 - 54:48) We're going to have her keep going. You got your cards ready? So, Katie Phelan, the Select Board has been criticized in the past for voting unanimously or claims that a 5-0 vote or a 4-1 vote reflects groupthink or lack of independent thought. Now, more recently, a split of 3-2 has drawn criticism for showing division or disunity, even discord. How do you view the role of consensus and disagreement on the board? And what do you believe is more important, unity or independent decision making? [Speaker 1] (54:51 - 58:00) Thank you, Mary Ellen. You're welcome, Katie. That's a thoughtful question. Okay, so, yeah. So, first, I think it's important to understand that there shouldn't be an immediate correlation between disagreement and dysfunction, right? I think, I hope, I've shown a lot of you guys that there is a positive way to have disagreement on the board, right? And that we can remain respectful and engaged with one another. We can be honest, but be open. I think, you know, a great example of this is the UV pilot conversation. I came in thinking, you know, I did the research. I came in with an opinion that I thought I had. And I allowed myself to fall into a different vote. This is what probably, like, really makes me the swing vote, guys, because I come to the table doing the homework, but I allow my colleagues who did the homework, too, to point out what I missed or what I didn't understand in the first place, to have a different analysis, to see it through a different lens. And I don't just stand there in my thought and think that's the only thought that could be thought. I think I'm open to the idea that that's thoughtful, too. And I think that that sort of ability to be open-minded and an active listener will hopefully pull us away from the rhetoric that disagreement is dysfunction. At the same time, I don't think 3-2 necessarily means division, right? Or we're divided. I think that when we bring our own perspective to the table, it's healthy. I think, you know, pointing out things that the other person doesn't see is necessary, because not everybody thinks the same. And I think the strength of the select board really lies in the ability to, like I said before, disagree respectfully, to challenge one another, but still move forward in the decisions that get made. My personal goal is never to win a vote. I don't even really know what that means, to win the vote, right? Like, if you're on the side of the majority, I guess some people would say that's the win. But for me, if that majority is what the community wants, that's what's important. It doesn't matter if I'm on that side or not. If I ultimately believe in the dissenting side for some reason, you know, it doesn't mean that I'm not going to be supportive of what the majority wants, and to work my tail off to make sure that that happens, because that's the decision that was made. I think ultimately we can agree without being disagreeable, and that's good leadership in the end, to be able to, you know, have the conversation and take that hat off and have the decision. And you're giving me the thumbs up, so I'm going to be quiet now. [Speaker 4] (58:02 - 58:07) Thank you. Lastly, closing statements, starting with Mary Ellen. [Speaker 2] (58:08 - 1:01:16) Is that three minutes? Yes. The closing? Okay. Okay, so in closing, what I want to say is that last week I spoke at the Essex Heritage spring annual meeting as a representative of the select board. We had Angela Ippolito leading that organization, so it was a lot of fun. And they had a poster there that said MA250. And for those of you who don't know what MA250 is, that's the celebration that the state is putting in to commemorate all the multiple battles that went on across Massachusetts leading to our independence. And I thought about how amazing and how much courage it took for people to get up and to march out to Lexington and then to face the British Army coming in and really battle this out. Our history is amazing. And then I thought about how everything we have is because of what these patriots did. Now, there is no comparison about the courage it took to fight the British Army, but there is a little truth in the fact that you do need courage to sit at this board. You cannot be a puppet for other people. You have to stand on your own two feet and be able to really push back and to fight. And you need to be able to have a tough skin to handle all the cowardly attacks that you're going to take. I had a predecessor on this board who served for nine years doing a very, I think he was nine years, he worked very hard. And he took a lot of hits. And he deserves a lot of credit for the things that he did. And that's something that is always in the back of my mind. But what's important is to know that you need to have courage to do this and you need to be able to move on. I can take that hit. I'm very respectful. And I have a lot of knowledge on how this town functions. We've, you throw me off there. We have a lot of things going on. We're going to need a new town administrator. We have the Hadley, the Hawthorne. We have 100 years of infrastructure that hasn't been dealt with. That's to about the tune of 100 million. We have seniors that need assistance, veterans that need assistance. We have a middle school that needs to be addressed. We're a coastal community that we've got to be prepared for how we're going to deal with what's happening in the environment. So we need leaders who have knowledge, who have a positive outlook, and who know how to be respectful to each other. I have that. And I also like to thank Katie Phelan for three years of, I don't want to say good times. That'll make everybody want to apply. But three years, three years of outstanding service as a taxpayer. I really appreciate everything she's done. So thank you, Katie. [Speaker 4] (1:01:16 - 1:01:18) Thank you. And Liz. [Speaker 3] (1:01:21 - 1:04:19) So I want to tell you a story that illustrates a few things. Oh, sorry. I'm going to tell you a story that illustrates a few things about me and about Swampscot. And because I do love talking about sewage at the beaches. Several years ago, when I was digging into the beach situation, I learned from requesting the consent decree compliant reports from the EPA that Swampscot had tested the outfall at Fisherman's Beach on three separate occasions in 2022. And the results came back extremely high. More than 1,000 times too high. In fact, that information was withheld from the EPA and from the public for a year. After doing more research, I learned that Fisherman's Beach had high sewage pollution back in 2019. And our consultant, Kleinfelder, had designed an engineering plan to fix the problems that they determined were causing this pollution. By corresponding with the Massachusetts Clean Water Trust State Revolving Fund Director, I learned that Swampscot had applied for and received a low-interest loan for $1.4 million to repair the pipes causing this pollution at Fisherman's Beach. But they didn't really receive it. They were awarded it. We were awarded it. But the loan was rejected in 2022. And the work was not done. The daily testing that the Water and Sewer Committee conducted at Fisherman's Beach last summer showed that the Marshall Street outfall, which had shown such high results back in 2022 and 2019, was still badly polluted every single day. The good news is that as a result of that research, as a result of the dogged pursuit of facts, as a result of insisting the select board pay attention, the work to fix the pipes leading to Fisherman's Beach has been taking place this year and is nearly complete. Pending testing, it's possible that recreation programs will return to Fisherman's Beach this summer. Please give me the opportunity to bring this energy, determination, and advocacy to bear on other issues facing Swampscot today. If elected, my goal is a select board that is more collaborative, more productive, and more transparent. I'm the only candidate who represents change on the select board. A vote for me is a vote for collaboration, progress, and a bright future for Swampscot. On Tuesday, April 29th, or earlier, I ask for your vote. This election is about more than policies and budgets. It's about the kind of town that we want and how we build it together. A town where our voices are heard, where our children thrive, and where our community is strengthened by transparency and trust. Swampscot's best days are ahead, and with your support, we will make that vision a reality. Thank you. [Speaker 1] (1:04:19 - 1:07:01) And Katie. Okay, since I went over twice, I'll try to keep these short. I just want to touch really briefly on something Liz said in her closing remarks, which was about the work that we've been doing for the water sewer infrastructure projects. And in the last Water Sewer Infrastructure Advisory Committee, Gino mentioned that the problem area uncovered behind 410 Humphrey Street, which was previously testing off the charts at 24,196, is now testing at 60. So the work is being done, and that work is creating change. I just wanted to say that really quick. It's really exciting that, you know, some of the efforts that are being made are actually, some of the actions are actually coming to fruition as change. So thank you again to the Swampscot Democratic and Republican Town Committees, to the Daily Item, and to 01907 Magazine for hosting tonight's forum, and congratulations to Mary Ellen and Liz for stepping up and engaging in this important community process. Our community is better when more voices are at the table. As we look ahead, I believe the next few years are pivotal for Swampscot. We have big decisions to make. We have decisions about housing, about climate resiliency, about how we support our schools, how we keep our small businesses, and those decisions will shape the character of our town for the next generation and generations to come. We're also at a crossroads. I spoke earlier when it comes to the balance between the level of services we expect and the taxes we're willing to pay, and we need to decide as a community what prevails. I'm running for reelection because I want to continue to do the work, not just talk about it. I want to keep learning and listening and leading with a clear sense of purpose and a deep respect for this community. I want to keep pushing for progress without losing sight of what makes Swampscot so special. And I promise I did not get choked up in my opening statements just so I could say this, but when I get emotional, when I talk about this town, it is not because I am weak. It's because I care very, very deeply. And because I know what is at stake here, and because the work matters. My commitment comes from my heart and from a belief that leadership should be rooted in service and not an ego. If reelected, I will stay focused on building a future that reflects our values, one grounded in truth and transparency and collaboration. I will continue to rise above the noise and serve with the same honesty and integrity that I've brought forward to this role from day one. Thank you for being here. Thank you for caring. And thank you for the opportunity to keep working for you and with you. [Speaker 4] (1:07:01 - 1:07:27) Thank you. I'd like to thank Mary Ellen, Katie, and Liz for participating in this debate. I'd like to also thank everyone in attendance, including the Democratic and Republican town committees, Ethan, Ron Statler, and Swampscot TV, as well as the town of Swampscot. Thank you. Thank you.