[Speaker 1] (0:59 - 1:07)
Welcome everybody to the July 8th 2025 SwimScout Select Board meeting.

[Speaker 1] (1:07 - 1:15)
If you'll all join me in Pledge of Allegiance and the meeting is being recorded. Thank you Diane.

[Speaker 1] (1:16 - 1:22)
Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,

[Speaker 1] (1:22 - 1:24)
one nation under God,

[Speaker 1] (1:24 - 1:27)
indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

[Speaker 1] (1:31 - 1:36)
And I thought we'd just take a moment of silence for what's happened in Texas.

[Speaker 1] (1:37 - 1:38)
Just incredible,

[Speaker 1] (1:38 - 1:40)
incredible tragedy there.

[Speaker 1] (1:53 - 1:54)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:55 - 1:56)
Climate is coming to get us.

[Speaker 1] (1:58 - 2:03)
Um okay. So um

[Speaker 1] (2:04 - 2:05)
first item here.

[Speaker 1] (2:07 - 2:08)
Mr return town administrator.

[Speaker 2] (2:08 - 2:10)
Oh, we gotta go before public comments.

[Speaker 1] (2:11 - 2:11)
Uh yep, tonight.

[Speaker 2] (2:11 - 2:12)
Okay, yep,

[Speaker 1] (2:12 - 2:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:12 - 2:24)
saw that. Alright, welcome everybody, and pleased to offer the following report on programmes and initiatives that are ongoing in the town of Swampscott. Community development.

[Speaker 2] (2:25 - 2:26)
Is Masi in here? Nope,

[Speaker 3] (2:26 - 2:26)
Rosie's

[Speaker 2] (2:26 - 2:27)
she was here.

[Speaker 3] (2:27 - 2:27)
online.

[Speaker 2] (2:27 - 2:28)
Online?

[Speaker 2] (2:30 - 2:41)
Brief update on Pine Street. BeneBret has requested additional time to submit their schematics for the building. They are now due on July 30th. The Planning Board has shared their comments.

[Speaker 2] (2:42 - 2:48)
The Planning Board comments will be forwarded to the Select Board before its July 22nd meeting. Additionally,

[Speaker 2] (2:48 - 2:51)
Masi is working on scheduling a meeting with the Veterans Leadership.

[Speaker 2] (2:52 - 2:57)
How the hotel Clearview is currently reviewing the town's restructured pilot payment structure,

[Speaker 2] (2:58 - 3:00)
public library,

[Speaker 2] (3:01 - 3:06)
new trustee approved policies and procedures have been downloaded to the library website.

[Speaker 2] (3:07 - 3:11)
Over 250 patrons attended the submarine kickoff party.

[Speaker 2] (3:12 - 3:18)
And the library had 996 visitors last week despite being closed on Friday.

[Speaker 2] (3:18 - 3:29)
truly remarkable. Building department. The building department landing page has been updated with department personnel and contact information as well as a link to FAQs.

[Speaker 2] (3:30 - 3:32)
Rich Baldacci, our building commissioner,

[Speaker 2] (3:32 - 3:39)
recently met with department heads regarding ADUs and it will be issuing an FAQ on ADUs soon.

[Speaker 2] (3:40 - 4:08)
The building department issued a hundred and fifty six permits so far in June totaling forty two thousand o seventy five senior center Governor Healey increased the formula grant from fifteen dollars to sixteen dollars per resident over sixty this will result in a projected revenue of sixty nine thousand one hundred and twenty dollars this money will be used to cover part-time administrative assistance transportation costs software and conferences

[Speaker 2] (4:10 - 4:30)
Recent state earmarks approved for a new refrigerator and freezer. Unfortunately they won't be released by the administration until the fall. The Senior Center will be closed next Wednesday, not tomorrow but the following Wednesday, July 16th as seniors will be enjoying a ferry trip to Boston. All are welcome and I believe there's still room on the boat.

[Speaker 2] (4:32 - 4:36)
Recreation. The summer concert series kicks off tomorrow night at 6pm.

[Speaker 2] (4:37 - 4:40)
Enjoy a free concert on Town Hall Lawn featuring Studio Two,

[Speaker 2] (4:41 - 4:43)
a Beatles tribute band.

[Speaker 2] (4:43 - 4:47)
TJ's Test Truck, a lot of T's,

[Speaker 2] (4:47 - 4:50)
and Uncle Joey's Cannoli will be on site for food and dessert options.

[Speaker 2] (4:51 - 5:03)
The annual Bentwater Day on the beach is this Saturday, July 12th from 2 p.m. to 8 p.m. featuring live music, food from the Yacht Club, and beer and hard seltzer from the...

[Speaker 2] (5:03 - 5:11)
event water brewing company tickets are ten dollars and can be purchased at the door or online proceeds benefit the annual fireworks celebration

[Speaker 2] (5:13 - 5:31)
this week's movie will be held this Thursday July 10th 6 30 p.m. will feature Moana and will be shown on Fisherman's Beach chick chick and Isabella's ice cream will be on site as food options new to town Sam Walker's Tavern is our premier sponsor for this year's movie series

[Speaker 2] (5:33 - 5:34)
Clerk's office.

[Speaker 2] (5:36 - 6:00)
Clerk's office procured a new public record system which will assist in FOIA requests. Cable T_V_ so I'll show somewhere. A new contract with CompuCast is currently being discussed. Joe Dulac is working on a plan to restructure the department both in definition of services as well as fiscal strategy. Finally, the final stage of the audit auditorium upgrade is scheduled for the first week of August.

[Speaker 2] (6:01 - 6:04)
speakers and acoustic acoustic paneling will be installed.

[Speaker 2] (6:06 - 6:15)
Police. Police two piece grant training was conducted last week. Community surveys were conducted by a third party as part of the grant. The chief will share the results when he receives them.

[Speaker 2] (6:16 - 6:24)
The chief is conducting final evaluations this week for lateral offices. There are four new lateral offices on the hiring list to be interviewed.

[Speaker 2] (6:25 - 6:30)
The next physical training exams are scheduled for July twenty third and August tenth.

[Speaker 2] (6:30 - 6:33)
And there are forty new candidates on the list.

[Speaker 2] (6:35 - 6:37)
And where is my first page?

[Speaker 2] (6:38 - 6:39)
Work with me for a minute.

[Speaker 2] (6:42 - 6:47)
And finally, we're here to talk about my favourite subject. There it is. Trash.

[Speaker 2] (6:49 - 6:52)
Trash has consumed a lot of my time in the last week and a half.

[Speaker 2] (6:52 - 7:00)
I would like to give everybody an update. It's a real fluid situation. I've had numerous meetings with both Republic and a group of town managers,

[Speaker 2] (7:00 - 7:05)
town administrators and mayors from all the other communities to be affected by this strike.

[Speaker 2] (7:06 - 7:22)
So the news we got today is unfortunately they still haven't completed Monday's route which is a shame because Monday's route was actually finished last week so that was only one week's worth of trash and it's taken them two plus days to finish that.

[Speaker 2] (7:23 - 7:36)
Tomorrow they're going to start on Tuesday route Tuesday's route which will be two weeks worth of trash Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. I don't have a lot of confidence that they're going to finish this week so we made a decision today to forego recycling.

[Speaker 2] (7:36 - 7:46)
So we're asking all the residents to bring the recycling back in this week with the hope that we'll be back on track next week. However as a concession to that this week

[Speaker 2] (7:47 - 7:58)
Similar to what we did last week, we're going to have six dumpsters at the DPW yard this week. Last week we had three forty-yard dumpsters, we filled two and a half of them with residents bringing in trash.

[Speaker 2] (7:58 - 8:15)
This week, the other next three dumpsters is going to be recycling dumpsters. So if people want to bring in their residents want to bring in their recycling, bring it down the DPW yard and we'll put in a recycling dumpster. I wish I had better news for you, but unfortunately, as I said, it's a fluid situation. We've been working.

[Speaker 2] (8:15 - 8:26)
With Republic, they'd like to tell you this strike's going to be resolved soon. I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about that, you know, just talking to them. It's they're drawing a hard line.

[Speaker 2] (8:27 - 8:35)
So that's it. Anybody has any questions regarding the trash, feel free to reach out to the DPW or the Health Department.

[Speaker 2] (8:35 - 8:36)
We'll do the best we can to answer the questions.

[Speaker 1] (8:37 - 8:38)
Thank you, Gino.

[Speaker 1] (8:39 - 8:40)
Danielle, any questions?

[Speaker 4] (8:40 - 8:42)
I don't have questions. I do have a comment.

[Speaker 4] (8:44 - 9:01)
I just want to thank Wayne Spritz who is here tonight and Gino Crestor and the guys at the DPW. It's an awful situation and there's no easy way out of it. It is totally out of our control, but I do appreciate Wayne taking the lead and really initiating some calls this week to get

[Speaker 4] (9:01 - 9:27)
everybody involved and to kind of brainstorm and see what we could do and Gino getting securing some dumpsters so we could at least open the DPW yard to residents who have trash that is just they don't know what to do with it so I I wish our response or our advanced response to this was a little bit better right so I wish because I have the feeling that maybe the health department knew a little bit about this coming up and we could have been a little bit more well-timed

[Speaker 4] (9:27 - 9:30)
you know with our communication and our plan but

[Speaker 2] (9:30 - 9:30)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (9:30 - 9:31)
um

[Speaker 4] (9:31 - 9:35)
We did spring into action and I thank you for that because that really,

[Speaker 2] (9:35 - 9:36)
You're welcome.

[Speaker 4] (9:36 - 9:48)
it was, I know it was a lot, it's been, it's a terrible time of year for this to happen and it was very time consuming but I do appreciate it. I went and dropped trash myself and it was pretty seamlessly easy so thank you.

[Speaker 2] (9:48 - 9:49)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (9:49 - 9:57)
I'd like to just add that the residents of Swampscott have been so appreciative of this effort down there. They're thanking us instead of complaining.

[Speaker 2] (9:57 - 9:59)
Thank you guys very much. We really appreciate it.

[Speaker 2] (9:59 - 9:59)
bring in the guy

[Speaker 1] (10:02 - 10:03)
It's been nice to know. It's really

[Speaker 2] (10:03 - 10:04)
It's worked out well for you.

[Speaker 1] (10:04 - 10:10)
It has. Yep. Yep. Got a nice tan Saturday and Sunday hanging up down at the D.P.W. yard. It's like being in the desert.

[Speaker 2] (10:13 - 10:13)
David?

[Speaker 3] (10:14 - 10:14)
Nothing.

[Speaker 2] (10:15 - 10:15)
Marianne?

[Speaker 4] (10:15 - 10:19)
Um I have a couple questions only because we all received an email, so I just wanna

[Speaker 1] (10:19 - 10:19)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (10:19 - 10:20)
get the answers to these.

[Speaker 4] (10:21 - 10:22)
questions from

[Speaker 4] (10:24 - 10:25)
Wayne

[Speaker 1] (10:25 - 10:25)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (10:25 - 10:32)
Spritz the so I to know is it can we get um can we do a drop-off in the middle of the week?

[Speaker 1] (10:32 - 10:37)
I think that's going to be very difficult, because we have trucks coming in and out of the yard. We have our

[Speaker 4] (10:37 - 10:37)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (10:37 - 10:40)
workers park their, it's still used as a fueling station.

[Speaker 1] (10:40 - 10:40)
It's

[Speaker 4] (10:40 - 10:42)
What about after work like?

[Speaker 1] (10:43 - 10:44)
potentially.

[Speaker 1] (10:45 - 10:54)
I'd have to get guys to work because not having the residents even get out of their cars, it's just coming in, instead of throwing a trash bag over a forty yard dumpster, which is eight feet high,

[Speaker 4] (10:54 - 10:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (10:54 - 10:58)
we're throwing it into a front-end loader and get it. So

[Speaker 1] (10:59 - 11:02)
if that's what the board desires, I'm sure my guys will jump all over the overtime.

[Speaker 5] (11:03 - 11:04)
Maybe Friday, if

[Speaker 1] (11:04 - 11:04)
Maybe

[Speaker 5] (11:04 - 11:04)
that's,

[Speaker 1] (11:04 - 11:04)
Friday,

[Speaker 5] (11:04 - 11:04)
you

[Speaker 1] (11:04 - 11:05)
yeah,

[Speaker 5] (11:05 - 11:05)
you know.

[Speaker 1] (11:05 - 11:06)
get give Something, them a little advance

[Speaker 4] (11:06 - 11:06)
yeah,

[Speaker 1] (11:06 - 11:07)
notice.

[Speaker 4] (11:07 - 11:10)
if if the guys are up for it, um

[Speaker 4] (11:11 - 11:14)
You know, 'cause we should be able to get reimbursed at the end of this crisis.

[Speaker 1] (11:14 - 11:15)
Well I plan on

[Speaker 4] (11:15 - 11:21)
Even if you hire s hire maybe some part-time labour, some of the college kids home might wanna

[Speaker 1] (11:21 - 11:24)
Yeah, take my guys, we'll they'll they're first in line be in Of the union,

[Speaker 4] (11:24 - 11:24)
course.

[Speaker 1] (11:24 - 11:24)
they'll jump

[Speaker 4] (11:24 - 11:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (11:24 - 11:26)
right over it. They're not gonna turn that down.

[Speaker 4] (11:26 - 11:28)
All right, good. Um

[Speaker 4] (11:32 - 11:35)
And then s so I received about seven phone calls today.

[Speaker 4] (11:35 - 11:38)
when I had my phone I I put my phone away that's all.

[Speaker 1] (11:38 - 11:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (11:39 - 11:48)
Uh about people asking um ta trying to tell me that their trash wasn't picked up. Who do we want people to call? We we need to we need to get that pretty clear.

[Speaker 1] (11:48 - 11:49)
You're probably better off calling

[Speaker 4] (11:49 - 11:51)
And I told her called Doug but

[Speaker 1] (11:51 - 11:59)
Yeah. I think the D_P_W_ office, you know, Jeff's short-staffed up in his office and to his credit he's been out on

[Speaker 1] (11:59 - 12:04)
The route's all day long yesterday and today checking to see what's being missed. So

[Speaker 6] (12:04 - 12:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (12:04 - 12:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (12:04 - 12:14)
So what happened to us, was it at one point weren't we going to call Republic? Wasn't, weren't we going to be able to log in to our accounts? Do we have discussion about that at the, one of the emergency meetings?

[Speaker 7] (12:14 - 12:17)
There is there is a good dog in the second floor,

[Speaker 7] (12:17 - 12:17)
there

[Speaker 1] (12:17 - 12:17)
Yes.

[Speaker 7] (12:17 - 12:17)
is.

[Speaker 7] (12:18 - 12:25)
Where you can't move the board, that's the second floor. Now, whether or not that's going to do any good, I don't think so, I don't Right. know.

[Speaker 1] (12:33 - 12:38)
So what I was told during today's meeting, that they're not going to chase the one or two houses that were missed,

[Speaker 4] (12:38 - 12:38)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (12:38 - 12:40)
if we know that there's a street's missed,

[Speaker 1] (12:40 - 12:43)
they'll circle back and pick up the street. But if one or two houses,

[Speaker 1] (12:43 - 12:49)
the new drivers aren't familiar with the routes, so they're struggling with it.

[Speaker 4] (12:50 - 12:59)
So one of the one of the issues that I have is is the elderly and disabled. We have about 70 to 100 residents in town that are

[Speaker 4] (13:00 - 13:10)
They stay inside, they're housebound. And so I did talk to Heidi over at the Senior Center and she's going to talk with her staff about

[Speaker 4] (13:10 - 13:26)
You know, how do we deal with this? I mean they have people come in and they're helping them, but what's gonna happen is their trash is gonna be put on the curb and then you know, how are we gonna get that? So Heidi's just doing a little bit of work on getting a recommendation and we can just figure it out with volunteers. I c

[Speaker 1] (13:26 - 13:27)
That would be ideal if we could get

[Speaker 4] (13:27 - 13:27)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (13:27 - 13:27)
volunteers

[Speaker 4] (13:27 - 13:28)
we could get with volunteers.

[Speaker 1] (13:28 - 13:28)
a pick-up truck.

[Speaker 4] (13:28 - 13:37)
I mean I volunteered on Saturday. I will not be taking a career in trash removal. It was pretty hard. And then last but not least

[Speaker 4] (13:39 - 13:51)
The one thing that we've really noticed and um is is the the very small amount of people that are on the uh code red and on soft. And um at the farmer's market on Saturday,

[Speaker 4] (13:52 - 13:56)
seventy percent of the people that came to my booth didn't even live in Swampscott.

[Speaker 4] (13:57 - 14:00)
It was really interesting. But 30% who did live in Swampscott,

[Speaker 4] (14:00 - 14:08)
I asked every single person, do you know about the trash strike? Everyone knew about the trash strike. The majority of the people learned about it through Facebook,

[Speaker 4] (14:08 - 14:18)
the Nest. And there was a small amount that received a text message from the town or a robo call. And several people said they couldn't hear the robo call.

[Speaker 4] (14:18 - 14:20)
They couldn't understand it. It's too electronic.

[Speaker 1] (14:21 - 14:22)
I agree, and

[Speaker 4] (14:22 - 14:22)
So

[Speaker 1] (14:22 - 14:27)
that's why we made an effort today to send out the robo call with somebody's voice from town hall.

[Speaker 4] (14:28 - 14:35)
So, but I think we as a board have to really figure out how we're going to get more people signed up, signed up on that. So...

[Speaker 1] (14:35 - 14:41)
It's my understanding we might have 1,100 out of the 5,400 homes in Swampscott signed up, so what's that, 20%?

[Speaker 1] (14:41 - 14:42)
Quick math?

[Speaker 4] (14:42 - 14:43)
Yeah, I think we just

[Speaker 1] (14:43 - 14:43)
Not

[Speaker 4] (14:43 - 14:43)
make

[Speaker 1] (14:43 - 14:43)
a lot.

[Speaker 4] (14:43 - 14:50)
a, make a plan and figure it out. So, um Wayne, I highlighted the top, the top things in here, if that's okay with you.

[Speaker 7] (14:50 - 14:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (14:52 - 14:55)
It was, I have a question whether or not you've figured out,

[Speaker 7] (14:57 - 15:01)
I have a question whether or not you've figured out why they're starting so late.

[Speaker 1] (15:02 - 15:05)
They are starting so late because the picketers,

[Speaker 1] (15:05 - 15:09)
the gentlemen or ladies, they're striking and blocking the gate and not allowing them out of the yard.

[Speaker 7] (15:09 - 15:14)
Okay, and we had discussed whether or not we could house the trucks locally.

[Speaker 1] (15:15 - 15:24)
Yep. Is that I presented him that option and they said no number one they were worried about security number two They said their mechanic has to check the trucks on a daily basis

[Speaker 7] (15:24 - 15:25)
At least we asked.

[Speaker 1] (15:25 - 15:26)
Yep,

[Speaker 7] (15:26 - 15:26)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (15:26 - 15:26)
definitely asked

[Speaker 7] (15:26 - 15:26)
Alright.

[Speaker 7] (15:28 - 15:28)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (15:29 - 15:29)
Um,

[Speaker 7] (15:34 - 15:43)
the last thing I was gonna say was just that um Tuesday today was, you know, we're now like at one week out. So Tuesdays and Wednesdays residents are gonna be the most

[Speaker 7] (15:44 - 15:50)
backed up. And there's a lot of us, my myself included, that didn't participate last Saturday because hey, I thought I could last another couple days.

[Speaker 7] (15:51 - 16:05)
I think there's gonna be pressure on particularly Tuesday and Wednesday routes if we're not if we're really backed up, I kind of second the the recommendation of having maybe a Thursday drop-off, if we can just keep that in mind seeing how that we do.

[Speaker 1] (16:06 - 16:06)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (16:06 - 16:07)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (16:07 - 16:08)
I'll do whatever the board desires.

[Speaker 4] (16:10 - 16:20)
Yeah, I would like to see it Thursday. Um, I just have one question on the police. Can you send the board a, can you ask the Chief to send the board this week a real detail on what uh

[Speaker 4] (16:21 - 16:24)
what the timeline looks for looks looks like for hiring.

[Speaker 7] (16:24 - 16:24)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (16:26 - 16:26)
Will do.

[Speaker 4] (16:27 - 16:27)
Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (16:28 - 16:28)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (16:34 - 16:36)
I mean when you're ready, Jeanne, I have one question too.

[Speaker 7] (16:36 - 16:36)
I'm ready.

[Speaker 7] (16:37 - 17:00)
Um so at the senior centre, this extra buck uh that we're getting and uh sixty nine thousand bucks. And we all know how tight the budget is. Is is that money required to go to these expenses that are enumerated here or is that the decision that you and Heidi have come to? Or is is this you know money that can be spent in various ways?

[Speaker 1] (17:02 - 17:04)
To be honest, I don't know. I'll have to check with Heidi to

[Speaker 7] (17:04 - 17:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (17:04 - 17:05)
get that answer. Yep.

[Speaker 1] (17:06 - 17:09)
I mean this may be the, you know, perfectly right thing to do, but

[Speaker 8] (17:09 - 17:10)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (17:11 - 17:12)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (17:12 - 17:13)
There's usually a line we item for

[Speaker 1] (17:13 - 17:13)
we were scraping

[Speaker 4] (17:13 - 17:13)
the grant.

[Speaker 1] (17:13 - 17:15)
for seventy thousand dollars.

[Speaker 8] (17:15 - 17:15)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (17:15 - 17:15)
So.

[Speaker 6] (17:15 - 17:16)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (17:20 - 17:21)
I'm sorry, Marilyn, go ahead.

[Speaker 4] (17:21 - 17:25)
There's usually a grant line item that that works into their budget.

[Speaker 1] (17:25 - 17:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (17:29 - 17:39)
Okay, if uh nothing else um for the interim account administrator we'll move on to public comment. Uh is there anyone here for public comment?

[Speaker 1] (17:44 - 17:45)
Welcome sir.

[Speaker 9] (17:45 - 17:46)
Hi.

[Speaker 7] (17:46 - 17:47)
State your name and address,

[Speaker 7] (17:47 - 17:47)
please.

[Speaker 10] (17:48 - 17:49)
Thomas Arrington,

[Speaker 10] (17:49 - 17:49)
40 Roy Street.

[Speaker 10] (17:50 - 17:52)
I'm a CIT at our Park League program.

[Speaker 10] (17:53 - 17:55)
Currently there is no bike rack at Clark.

[Speaker 10] (17:55 - 17:58)
This is problematic because many of our campers ride to Park League.

[Speaker 10] (17:59 - 18:02)
You have nowhere to locks lock up their bikes.

[Speaker 10] (18:02 - 18:04)
Some are leaving them against the fence,

[Speaker 10] (18:04 - 18:06)
but others are just leaving them straight on the ground.

[Speaker 10] (18:07 - 18:10)
Returning the bike rack would make it a safer and more organized morning.

[Speaker 10] (18:10 - 18:11)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (18:12 - 18:12)
You're welcome.

[Speaker 4] (18:13 - 18:14)
Where did he say that was?

[Speaker 1] (18:14 - 18:16)
Is that at MacClock School?

[Speaker 4] (18:16 - 18:16)
Abbot.

[Speaker 1] (18:17 - 18:17)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (18:18 - 18:18)
Thank you, Thomas.

[Speaker 1] (18:18 - 18:22)
Yep. I believe that's all the park lead to being held now.

[Speaker 6] (18:22 - 18:22)
It is.

[Speaker 1] (18:22 - 18:23)
MacClock.

[Speaker 6] (18:23 - 18:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (18:26 - 18:28)
Any other public comment?

[Speaker 7] (18:29 - 18:32)
Doesn't look like there's any online either.

[Speaker 7] (18:36 - 18:36)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (18:37 - 18:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (18:37 - 18:49)
We will move along. Um first item up is discussion and possible vote on fiscal year-end transfers. Uh Gino, is it Tran going to take us through this?

[Speaker 1] (18:51 - 18:52)
So you want to work together?

[Speaker 7] (18:52 - 18:53)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (18:53 - 18:53)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (18:53 - 18:56)
We teamed up last night, so I think we can do it again today.

[Speaker 1] (19:03 - 19:04)
Are we going to pull this up or?

[Speaker 1] (19:06 - 19:07)
All right, any specific questions?

[Speaker 6] (19:08 - 19:10)
I should probably pull it up, right?

[Speaker 1] (19:39 - 19:54)
So, as you can see the bottom line is funds needed total $662,686.83. So we're able to credit to Amy before she left, she had put this together for us, so we found funding sources to

[Speaker 2] (20:00 - 20:05)
And then we were given this document that has prior years. Is just for reference. Do you have any idea?

[Speaker 3] (20:05 - 20:06)
Yeah, one.

[Speaker 1] (20:06 - 20:07)
Trey, can you help me with that one?

[Speaker 2] (20:08 - 20:11)
Is this just for reference what the prior year transfers were?

[Speaker 4] (20:12 - 20:13)
I don't have that page.

[Speaker 5] (20:13 - 20:13)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (20:14 - 20:14)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (20:14 - 20:15)
Yeah, it's very on.

[Speaker 1] (20:15 - 20:16)
Okay, thank you.

[Speaker 6] (20:16 - 20:17)
Alright.

[Speaker 6] (20:19 - 20:19)
Alright, I don't have that one.

[Speaker 6] (20:20 - 20:21)
So you all get it.

[Speaker 1] (20:30 - 20:34)
So uh any questions uh from the board on this?

[Speaker 7] (20:49 - 20:51)
I just have one question. Oh, I'm sorry,

[Speaker 1] (20:51 - 20:51)
Oh,

[Speaker 7] (20:51 - 20:51)
you

[Speaker 1] (20:51 - 20:51)
go ahead.

[Speaker 7] (20:51 - 20:58)
can go. Um just on I watched a finance committee meeting last night. I I co I didn't get all of it, but um

[Speaker 7] (20:59 - 21:08)
I did catch part of what you were saying about sick time, um taking sick time off and then retiring

[Speaker 1] (21:08 - 21:08)
Yes.

[Speaker 7] (21:08 - 21:12)
and then how that how that affects the overtime.

[Speaker 1] (21:13 - 21:13)
Yes.

[Speaker 7] (21:14 - 21:15)
So I didn't catch it. I just wondered if we could

[Speaker 1] (21:16 - 21:25)
Yep, I'll elaborate on that. So what we found is funds needed when you look down the fire personnel is over two hundred thirty thousand dollars.

[Speaker 1] (21:25 - 21:31)
Part of that pertaining to a firefighter that was out on disability that we're paying all year.

[Speaker 1] (21:31 - 21:34)
I shouldn't say work in this comp, not disability until they finally retired.

[Speaker 1] (21:35 - 21:50)
So, while he was out, not only was he getting paid, but it was also we were paying overtime to backfill that position. And the second part of it is we learned of a practice that I'm now told will be discontinued of paying firefighters out their sick time once they decide to retire.

[Speaker 1] (21:50 - 21:55)
So in other words, if somebody had 50 sick days to go, they're saying,

[Speaker 1] (21:55 - 21:59)
I'm done today, but I'm not effectively retiring for another 50 work days.

[Speaker 1] (22:00 - 22:02)
And I know I gave that same look.

[Speaker 1] (22:03 - 22:19)
And I know it's the worst phrase that I can't stay in his hair and they'll never use it at the debate or I'll be is that's the way it always has been and I was told how you know how I feel about that term that that practice will be discontinued and will no longer be put into effect because really it's

[Speaker 7] (22:20 - 22:23)
Let me understand this, though. So somebody gives a retirement date of

[Speaker 1] (22:23 - 22:23)
Yep

[Speaker 7] (22:23 - 22:24)
X.

[Speaker 7] (22:24 - 22:26)
They figure out they have 56 days.

[Speaker 7] (22:27 - 22:36)
So they fifty days in advance of the date they already had certified with H_R_ or whoever, they say this is my last day, I'm calling in sick for fifty days.

[Speaker 1] (22:36 - 22:39)
I'm not so sure they're telling H_R_ that. It may Or be

[Speaker 7] (22:39 - 22:39)
whoever, who are really,

[Speaker 1] (22:39 - 22:40)
yeah, maybe

[Speaker 7] (22:40 - 22:40)
like,

[Speaker 1] (22:40 - 22:40)
probably the the top

[Speaker 7] (22:40 - 22:41)
still somebody,

[Speaker 1] (22:41 - 22:41)
top

[Speaker 7] (22:41 - 22:41)
right?

[Speaker 1] (22:41 - 22:43)
and head possibly. Okay.

[Speaker 7] (22:43 - 22:44)
Will they be saying that to the chief?

[Speaker 1] (22:44 - 22:45)
Definitely, yeah.

[Speaker 7] (22:45 - 22:46)
So they say the chief, I'm

[Speaker 1] (22:46 - 22:47)
Just the top.

[Speaker 7] (22:47 - 22:48)
I'm gonna be sick for the next fifty one days.

[Speaker 1] (22:48 - 22:49)
Yeah, I'm gonna

[Speaker 7] (22:49 - 22:49)
But we

[Speaker 1] (22:49 - 22:50)
use don't a sick

[Speaker 7] (22:50 - 22:50)
we

[Speaker 1] (22:50 - 22:51)
time like everybody else has done previously.

[Speaker 7] (22:52 - 22:54)
And nobody's nobody does anything about it?

[Speaker 1] (22:54 - 22:54)
Just it.

[Speaker 8] (22:55 - 22:56)
But prior to this?

[Speaker 1] (22:57 - 22:57)
Apparently

[Speaker 8] (22:57 - 22:57)
So

[Speaker 1] (22:57 - 22:57)
not.

[Speaker 8] (22:57 - 22:58)
this is something that's happened

[Speaker 1] (22:58 - 22:59)
That's what I found out.

[Speaker 8] (22:59 - 22:59)
repeatedly?

[Speaker 1] (22:59 - 23:00)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (23:02 - 23:02)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (23:02 - 23:04)
Well, good for putting a stop to it, genome.

[Speaker 1] (23:04 - 23:04)
That's the good news.

[Speaker 2] (23:04 - 23:04)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (23:05 - 23:05)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (23:07 - 23:16)
So do you want to comment on maybe a couple other of the big um funds needed categories? That's the explanation generally for the fire personnel,

[Speaker 2] (23:16 - 23:18)
there's also property and casualty and legal,

[Speaker 2] (23:18 - 23:19)
I suppose the next two big ones.

[Speaker 1] (23:19 - 23:20)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (23:21 - 23:23)
Can I property and casualty?

[Speaker 7] (23:23 - 23:25)
Is that the insurance from the new school?

[Speaker 9] (23:25 - 23:26)
That's correct.

[Speaker 7] (23:26 - 23:26)
Is that

[Speaker 1] (23:26 - 23:27)
The eff. new school, yep.

[Speaker 9] (23:27 - 23:28)
And the Hartley.

[Speaker 1] (23:28 - 23:28)
Hawthorne.

[Speaker 9] (23:28 - 23:29)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (23:29 - 23:29)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (23:30 - 23:30)
And

[Speaker 2] (23:30 - 23:30)
Were there?

[Speaker 7] (23:30 - 23:31)
Hadley.

[Speaker 1] (23:31 - 23:31)
And

[Speaker 2] (23:31 - 23:32)
Were why

[Speaker 1] (23:32 - 23:32)
Hartford.

[Speaker 2] (23:32 - 23:32)
weren't small those

[Speaker 9] (23:32 - 23:32)
budget.

[Speaker 7] (23:32 - 23:33)
Hardly small, you know.

[Speaker 9] (23:34 - 23:34)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (23:34 - 23:34)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (23:34 - 23:34)
Why weren't

[Speaker 2] (23:34 - 23:34)
so yeah.

[Speaker 1] (23:34 - 23:35)
those known?

[Speaker 1] (23:36 - 23:37)
What's that?

[Speaker 7] (23:37 - 23:37)
They

[Speaker 2] (23:37 - 23:37)
Why

[Speaker 7] (23:37 - 23:37)
were

[Speaker 2] (23:37 - 23:38)
weren't

[Speaker 7] (23:38 - 23:39)
known, they weren't factored into the budget.

[Speaker 6] (23:41 - 23:41)
Maybe

[Speaker 7] (23:41 - 23:42)
They

[Speaker 6] (23:42 - 23:43)
had told us about that.

[Speaker 7] (23:43 - 23:44)
They were known.

[Speaker 10] (23:44 - 23:44)
So

[Speaker 7] (23:44 - 23:46)
They were not factored into the budget in 2025.

[Speaker 10] (23:46 - 23:53)
So so is the entirety of the hundred and fifty three some odd thousand dollars solely new school and Hawthorne

[Speaker 1] (23:56 - 23:56)
Sure. And majority

[Speaker 6] (23:56 - 23:57)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (23:57 - 23:59)
the 153 the new school and the Hawthorne?

[Speaker 11] (24:00 - 24:01)
Hawthorne and the elementary school.

[Speaker 1] (24:01 - 24:02)
The elementary school.

[Speaker 1] (24:03 - 24:04)
It seems like a lot.

[Speaker 1] (24:04 - 24:04)
I

[Speaker 12] (24:04 - 24:06)
Amy had mentioned this though. She had brought this

[Speaker 1] (24:06 - 24:07)
up. Yes. Yep.

[Speaker 11] (24:07 - 24:11)
Yeah, we didn't budget it for fiscal 2025 and then it didn't hit until later.

[Speaker 2] (24:13 - 24:15)
Do we have it factored into 26 appropriately?

[Speaker 11] (24:15 - 24:16)
Yes, yes.

[Speaker 2] (24:16 - 24:17)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (24:19 - 24:22)
And the legal expenses are through what date?

[Speaker 1] (24:22 - 24:25)
Is that through June 15th or have we projected that out through the end of the fiscal year?

[Speaker 11] (24:26 - 24:31)
Yes, for June 30th. So it cover everything we need for this fiscal year.

[Speaker 1] (24:31 - 24:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 12] (24:34 - 24:39)
So that means that our legal expense was roughly $100,000 over what we had budgeted? Is that what that is?

[Speaker 2] (24:39 - 24:47)
That's right. Yep. And this is all with our town council. We have a regular deal, but somehow we went over the fixed amount.

[Speaker 1] (24:47 - 24:53)
With him, yeah, and then some of it was attributed to the Hadley, some of it was attributed to Pine Street,

[Speaker 1] (24:54 - 24:57)
and some of it may have been attributed to personnel.

[Speaker 11] (24:57 - 24:58)
U U.

[Speaker 1] (24:59 - 25:02)
Yeah, we talked about the U U last night, right?

[Speaker 7] (25:02 - 25:05)
We had the U U in August. We had the we had to finish paying out.

[Speaker 7] (25:06 - 25:16)
We had to finish paying out the outside council. We had we had a very expensive outside council for the U U that had to settle that out.

[Speaker 2] (25:16 - 25:16)
So

[Speaker 11] (25:16 - 25:16)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (25:16 - 25:21)
in some ways some of this is investment in terms of the projects that we have under way.

[Speaker 2] (25:26 - 25:26)
Any other questions?

[Speaker 10] (25:27 - 25:29)
I just have a comment,

[Speaker 10] (25:29 - 25:35)
and I just tonight I want to address an extremely concerning matter which is brought to my attention,

[Speaker 10] (25:35 - 25:39)
you know, town of Swampscott routinely engages with town council,

[Speaker 10] (25:40 - 25:40)
KP law.

[Speaker 10] (25:41 - 25:45)
From time to time the town is going to need to engage outside council whenever this occurs,

[Speaker 10] (25:45 - 25:48)
there's a vote of the select board to do so.

[Speaker 10] (25:49 - 25:49)
However,

[Speaker 10] (25:49 - 25:50)
on a most recent occasion,

[Speaker 10] (25:50 - 25:52)
this did not happen.

[Speaker 10] (25:53 - 25:54)
In February of 25,

[Speaker 10] (25:55 - 26:00)
the select board through select board member Mary Ellen Flinchers hired an outside law firm,

[Speaker 10] (26:01 - 26:13)
Murphy Hess Toomey and Lehane, to provide a second legal opinion regarding the Pine Street project without the vote or knowledge of the select board and without the approval or knowledge of acting town administrator Gino Cresta.

[Speaker 10] (26:13 - 26:22)
Myself, as well as other select board members only found out about this second legal opinion on March 19th, the day of the special town meeting when we received an email regarding the opinion.

[Speaker 10] (26:23 - 26:28)
While this infraction by a current sitting select board member and former finance committee member is bad,

[Speaker 10] (26:28 - 26:30)
what happens next is worse.

[Speaker 10] (26:31 - 26:36)
There is now a legal bill due of $8,460 for this unauthorized legal bill,

[Speaker 10] (26:36 - 26:45)
so this isn't included in this $98,650. So there's an additional $8,460 for this unauthorized legal bill.

[Speaker 10] (26:46 - 26:49)
In an attempt to cover up this unauthorized expense,

[Speaker 10] (26:49 - 26:50)
two weeks ago,

[Speaker 10] (26:50 - 26:54)
Select Board Member Fletcher approached former Director of Finance,

[Speaker 10] (26:54 - 26:57)
Amy Souro, requesting that these funds be moved to pay this unauthorized bill.

[Speaker 10] (26:58 - 27:05)
Amy Saro then informed Mary Ellen Fletcher as well as the rest of the select board and the town administrator that this bill cannot be paid as it was not authorized.

[Speaker 10] (27:06 - 27:09)
Despite being told by the finance director that this bill cannot be paid,

[Speaker 10] (27:10 - 27:18)
select board member Fletcher then went to another town hall finance employee requesting to override that guidance and violate Mass General Law.

[Speaker 10] (27:19 - 27:20)
Select board member Fletcher,

[Speaker 10] (27:20 - 27:28)
you've committed malfeasance and then attempted to cover this up by asking a town hall employee to violate the law after you were already told no.

[Speaker 10] (27:29 - 27:33)
Fortunately, and I'm happy to report town finance staff did not do what was asked.

[Speaker 10] (27:34 - 27:36)
What happens next and how is this bill paid?

[Speaker 10] (27:37 - 27:38)
Well,

[Speaker 10] (27:38 - 27:44)
the invoice would be for the $8,460 would need to be included in a warrant article at a future town meeting.

[Speaker 10] (27:45 - 27:48)
This would require a four-fifths vote per Massachusetts general law.

[Speaker 10] (27:49 - 27:49)
However,

[Speaker 10] (27:50 - 27:51)
Swampscott taxpayers,

[Speaker 10] (27:51 - 27:54)
in my view, shouldn't be on the hook for your unauthorized expenditures,

[Speaker 10] (27:55 - 27:55)
Mary Ellen.

[Speaker 10] (27:55 - 27:58)
And I feel strongly there should be a consequence to your actions.

[Speaker 10] (27:59 - 27:59)
At a minimum,

[Speaker 10] (28:00 - 28:05)
it should include you covering this unauthorized expense personally and at no cost to the taxpayers of Swampscott.

[Speaker 7] (28:06 - 28:07)
First, Mr.

[Speaker 7] (28:07 - 28:08)
Grishman, once again,

[Speaker 7] (28:08 - 28:12)
you are just here to try to malign me.

[Speaker 7] (28:13 - 28:15)
To make things up and to lie,

[Speaker 7] (28:15 - 28:19)
and this is just part of your M.O. constantly. It

[Speaker 10] (28:19 - 28:20)
Which part

[Speaker 7] (28:20 - 28:20)
is common practice,

[Speaker 10] (28:20 - 28:21)
is

[Speaker 7] (28:21 - 28:21)
excuse me,

[Speaker 10] (28:21 - 28:22)
incorrect?

[Speaker 7] (28:22 - 28:23)
excuse me, Mr.

[Speaker 7] (28:23 - 28:23)
Grishman,

[Speaker 6] (28:23 - 28:23)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (28:23 - 28:31)
it is common practice for, to reach out and to get consulting information.

[Speaker 7] (28:32 - 28:38)
To, for us to ask other legal, to ask other legal comments.

[Speaker 7] (28:39 - 29:04)
about what is for a second opinion especially on Pine Street is totally normal and would be something that we should do and Mr. Cresta was aware that we were asking for another it was not any secret the the community development director was fully aware the

[Speaker 7] (29:05 - 29:32)
housing affordable housing was aware it was very important that we had a second opinion especially when at times we have been concerned about the opinions from KP law so went to this other law firm just a double check to make sure our opinion was fine there is a line item under the TA's account for

[Speaker 7] (29:33 - 29:34)
consulting.

[Speaker 7] (29:35 - 29:37)
So the money is absolutely there.

[Speaker 7] (29:37 - 29:39)
The money was always there.

[Speaker 7] (29:39 - 29:40)
This is not a big issue.

[Speaker 7] (29:40 - 29:46)
This is just one more issue of you trying to malign me. And as far as me asking someone to move money around,

[Speaker 7] (29:47 - 29:48)
there is no money to move around.

[Speaker 7] (29:48 - 29:49)
There is money right

[Speaker 1] (29:54 - 29:55)
you know, I don't

[Speaker 2] (29:55 - 29:56)
When you

[Speaker 1] (29:56 - 29:59)
know what to say. This is just, this is regular, this is regular fees.

[Speaker 1] (29:59 - 30:03)
I mean if you really want to talk about some of the reasons why our legal fees are so high,

[Speaker 1] (30:03 - 30:09)
turn around and look at at all of these FOIA requests that you make. I mean let's

[Speaker 1] (30:09 - 30:14)
Why don't we just stop and just move on? But if you keep going against me,

[Speaker 1] (30:14 - 30:16)
keep going at me, I really,

[Speaker 1] (30:16 - 30:17)
I

[Speaker 3] (30:17 - 30:17)
Mary Ellen,

[Speaker 1] (30:17 - 30:17)
don't want to.

[Speaker 3] (30:17 - 30:18)
you didn't, you,

[Speaker 3] (30:19 - 30:20)
this is an unauthorized expense.

[Speaker 3] (30:20 - 30:22)
You unilaterally made a decision.

[Speaker 3] (30:23 - 30:29)
In a time that we are looking and reconciling and spending hours here in

[Speaker 1] (30:29 - 30:29)
I did

[Speaker 3] (30:29 - 30:29)
500,

[Speaker 1] (30:29 - 30:35)
not unilaterally make a decision. I did not unilaterally make a decision. Similar to,

[Speaker 1] (30:35 - 30:36)
let me just,

[Speaker 1] (30:36 - 30:45)
we can go back to when you were the chair and you needed to hire a consulting company to come up with a library at the Hawthorne that was never voted on, discussed,

[Speaker 1] (30:45 - 30:46)
anything,

[Speaker 1] (30:46 - 30:47)
nothing.

[Speaker 1] (30:47 - 30:50)
So you're trying to single me out for something.

[Speaker 1] (30:50 - 30:58)
thing that was under ten thousand dollars no issues whatsoever there's a line item for a consulting and you're just trying to make an issue that's not there that's

[Speaker 3] (30:58 - 30:59)
All right.

[Speaker 1] (30:59 - 31:00)
what you're trying to do mr grishman and

[Speaker 3] (31:01 - 31:01)
You've

[Speaker 1] (31:01 - 31:01)
I just

[Speaker 3] (31:01 - 31:02)
committed

[Speaker 1] (31:02 - 31:02)
want to

[Speaker 3] (31:02 - 31:02)
malfeasance,

[Speaker 1] (31:02 - 31:03)
understand that.

[Speaker 3] (31:03 - 31:11)
and you're attempting to cover it up. This was unauthorized. All you had to do was get a vote of the select board or approval from the town administrator,

[Speaker 3] (31:12 - 31:13)
neither of which happened.

[Speaker 1] (31:13 - 31:18)
The town administrator was fully aware of everything we were doing in there,

[Speaker 1] (31:18 - 31:20)
and at any time the town administrator would say,

[Speaker 1] (31:20 - 31:20)
oh,

[Speaker 1] (31:20 - 31:27)
I don't think we should do this, or I don't think we should be spending this. It's not like, you know, there's something secretive going on.

[Speaker 3] (31:28 - 31:28)
This

[Speaker 1] (31:28 - 31:28)
I

[Speaker 3] (31:28 - 31:28)
board,

[Speaker 1] (31:28 - 31:28)
just,

[Speaker 3] (31:28 - 31:30)
this board was not made aware of this.

[Speaker 3] (31:30 - 31:35)
The first we heard of this was on March 19th. I have the legal bill.

[Speaker 3] (31:35 - 31:36)
I have it.

[Speaker 3] (31:36 - 31:47)
The legal bill basically shows that you weren't, you were on six different phone calls back from February.

[Speaker 3] (31:47 - 31:53)
There was never any knowledge or information that was shared with this board about the scope of work,

[Speaker 3] (31:53 - 31:55)
about this firm.

[Speaker 3] (31:56 - 32:01)
Literally six different times, and you never thought that you should bring this up to the board.

[Speaker 3] (32:01 - 32:02)
That's not normal.

[Speaker 3] (32:03 - 32:03)
That's

[Speaker 1] (32:03 - 32:04)
It

[Speaker 3] (32:04 - 32:04)
not okay.

[Speaker 1] (32:04 - 32:05)
is truly not abnormal,

[Speaker 1] (32:05 - 32:06)
Mr.

[Speaker 1] (32:06 - 32:07)
Grishman. As you know, as the chairman,

[Speaker 1] (32:08 - 32:11)
with all your conversations with consultants while you were the chair,

[Speaker 1] (32:11 - 32:16)
it was just common practice. And all my conversations were also with the vice chair,

[Speaker 1] (32:17 - 32:18)
the town administrator,

[Speaker 1] (32:18 - 32:21)
the director of community development.

[Speaker 1] (32:21 - 32:22)
There were no secrets here whatsoever.

[Speaker 1] (32:23 - 32:25)
You're just trying to make this out to be something it's not.

[Speaker 3] (32:25 - 32:26)
And you

[Speaker 1] (32:26 - 32:26)
We

[Speaker 3] (32:26 - 32:26)
didn't do

[Speaker 1] (32:26 - 32:26)
have

[Speaker 3] (32:26 - 32:26)
anything.

[Speaker 1] (32:26 - 32:29)
the line item. It's under consulting line item.

[Speaker 1] (32:29 - 32:31)
item it's right there to be paid i

[Speaker 3] (32:31 - 32:36)
You directed a town employee to violate Mass General Law.

[Speaker 1] (32:36 - 32:37)
absolutely did not that is

[Speaker 3] (32:37 - 32:37)
You

[Speaker 1] (32:37 - 32:37)
ridiculous

[Speaker 3] (32:37 - 32:38)
absolutely did.

[Speaker 1] (32:38 - 32:38)
i

[Speaker 3] (32:38 - 32:39)
Mr.

[Speaker 1] (32:39 - 32:40)
did not no i'm

[Speaker 3] (32:40 - 32:42)
It happened,

[Speaker 3] (32:42 - 32:42)
Mary Ellen.

[Speaker 3] (32:42 - 32:43)
It happened.

[Speaker 3] (32:44 - 32:45)
And you're,

[Speaker 1] (32:45 - 32:45)
sorry

[Speaker 3] (32:45 - 32:45)
I'm

[Speaker 1] (32:45 - 32:46)
but i did not ask right

[Speaker 3] (32:46 - 32:48)
asking Mr.

[Speaker 3] (32:48 - 32:51)
Cresta if it's his knowledge that that occurred.

[Speaker 1] (32:53 - 32:54)
If he was present,

[Speaker 1] (32:54 - 32:59)
if I asked an employee to pay to, what was it you're saying I asked an employee to do?

[Speaker 3] (32:59 - 33:05)
To reallocate funds against the guidance of our former director of finance and town administration.

[Speaker 1] (33:05 - 33:07)
There's no reallocation of funds.

[Speaker 1] (33:07 - 33:08)
There are funds available.

[Speaker 1] (33:09 - 33:11)
In the line item, there are funds available.

[Speaker 1] (33:11 - 33:13)
I'm not asking to reallocate funds.

[Speaker 1] (33:13 - 33:15)
There are the funds. It's under consulting right

[Speaker 4] (33:15 - 33:16)
unauthorised expense.

[Speaker 1] (33:16 - 33:16)
there.

[Speaker 4] (33:16 - 33:16)
As I understood,

[Speaker 1] (33:16 - 33:18)
It's not an unauthorised expend expenditure.

[Speaker 4] (33:18 - 33:33)
but here's here's the process that was used which at least some of us were not aware of which is uncommon. I won't say it's unprecedented but it is uncommon for the board not to be engaged in hiring outside consultants.

[Speaker 4] (33:34 - 33:36)
Not going to go back and re-litigate the whole Pine Street thing,

[Speaker 4] (33:36 - 33:37)
okay?

[Speaker 4] (33:37 - 33:38)
It was uncommon.

[Speaker 4] (33:38 - 33:42)
And in that process, there was no engagement letter signed.

[Speaker 4] (33:42 - 33:43)
So therefore,

[Speaker 4] (33:44 - 33:50)
a outside resource was engaged without having an engagement letter.

[Speaker 4] (33:50 - 33:55)
And that is the reason that the former Director of Finance felt that she could not authorize.

[Speaker 4] (33:56 - 33:57)
With that expense being in here.

[Speaker 1] (33:57 - 34:03)
How many bills do we sign? How many times do we engage that we don't have engagement letters?

[Speaker 1] (34:04 - 34:06)
How many times? Let's see.

[Speaker 1] (34:06 - 34:07)
Pine Street, our legal practice,

[Speaker 1] (34:08 - 34:10)
our legal from Pine Street, no engagement letter.

[Speaker 1] (34:10 - 34:12)
So what's

[Speaker 4] (34:12 - 34:12)
What do you mean?

[Speaker 1] (34:12 - 34:13)
the gentleman's name again?

[Speaker 1] (34:14 - 34:15)
Our lawyer for

[Speaker 4] (34:15 - 34:15)
Kurt James.

[Speaker 1] (34:15 - 34:16)
Kurt James.

[Speaker 1] (34:16 - 34:18)
We don't have an engagement letter from Kurt James. That is not.

[Speaker 1] (34:19 - 34:26)
We don't always have engagement letters or even called engagement letters. It's not mass general law to have an engagement letter,

[Speaker 1] (34:26 - 34:27)
you know.

[Speaker 4] (34:30 - 34:36)
I'm not doesn't seem to be the opinion of the person who is in the role to adjudicate that and that's why it's not

[Speaker 1] (34:36 - 34:37)
Who is this person?

[Speaker 1] (34:37 - 34:38)
Amy,

[Speaker 4] (34:38 - 34:38)
Amy

[Speaker 1] (34:38 - 34:38)
Amy Sorrow.

[Speaker 1] (34:38 - 34:40)
Well, I'm sorry,

[Speaker 1] (34:40 - 34:41)
but Amy Sorrow.

[Speaker 1] (34:42 - 34:45)
Does she have an email for me saying move funds around? Did

[Speaker 4] (34:45 - 34:45)
I'm

[Speaker 1] (34:45 - 34:45)
she not have

[Speaker 4] (34:45 - 34:46)
even talking

[Speaker 1] (34:46 - 34:46)
a conversation?

[Speaker 4] (34:46 - 34:48)
about that part, I'm just talking about I'm sticking to the agenda item

[Speaker 1] (34:48 - 34:48)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 4] (34:48 - 34:51)
here, which is why it's not in this thing

[Speaker 1] (34:51 - 34:52)
It's not in

[Speaker 4] (34:52 - 34:52)
now.

[Speaker 1] (34:52 - 34:56)
this because there's there is money in the budget to pay the bill.

[Speaker 1] (34:58 - 35:01)
That there's 'cause there's no reason for it to be here. There is there the

[Speaker 4] (35:01 - 35:01)
So you

[Speaker 1] (35:01 - 35:01)
money

[Speaker 4] (35:01 - 35:02)
expect is us

[Speaker 1] (35:02 - 35:02)
there.

[Speaker 4] (35:02 - 35:06)
to expect Gino to pay this bill with funds that

[Speaker 1] (35:06 - 35:06)
Yes, I

[Speaker 4] (35:06 - 35:06)
are in

[Speaker 1] (35:06 - 35:06)
think

[Speaker 4] (35:06 - 35:06)
that line

[Speaker 1] (35:06 - 35:10)
Gino should be paying this bill under the T_A_ consulting line item.

[Speaker 1] (35:11 - 35:22)
I do want to say one thing here, and we can all disagree amongst the five of us and have difference of opinion here on what's happened past administrations, past select board members,

[Speaker 1] (35:22 - 35:22)
past chairs.

[Speaker 1] (35:23 - 35:27)
What I don't want to see is any of us putting...

[Speaker 1] (35:27 - 35:53)
This man on the hot seat because I don't believe you know and if we did something that we shouldn't have maybe we didn't follow the right procedure and we we it's a learning moment for us and we need to know that this is how we need to proceed going forward that's fine that's on us to own that's not it's not appropriate to put town employees in this position okay I don't know whether or not Gino knew what or I don't really know

[Speaker 1] (35:53 - 36:14)
uh or Amy Saro or Mars n none of these people matter, right? If this is a squabble amongst the five of us, let's settle it, let's own it, let's figure out what we did wrong and let's fix it. Simple, right? So if you're saying there's money there to pay this bill, there's money there to pay this bill. But let's also own it that we didn't go about it the right way.

[Speaker 1] (36:14 - 36:15)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (36:15 - 36:18)
We didn't take the right steps. We didn't take a vote of this board.

[Speaker 1] (36:19 - 36:24)
Right. We obviously did it without, you know, three of us or at least three of us saying,

[Speaker 1] (36:24 - 36:24)
OK,

[Speaker 1] (36:24 - 36:25)
do this. Right.

[Speaker 1] (36:25 - 36:30)
And commit to not engaging in that type of behavior going forward. Right.

[Speaker 1] (36:30 - 36:34)
And we are going to adjust how we do things because obviously this has come up before.

[Speaker 1] (36:34 - 36:39)
This has been, you know, we can sit here and point fingers and say you did it as chair,

[Speaker 1] (36:39 - 36:41)
the five chairs before you did it.

[Speaker 1] (36:41 - 36:50)
The fact of the matter is it happened here this time recently when you were the chair, and we just did it the wrong way. It's really simple.

[Speaker 1] (36:50 - 36:53)
We have the money. If we have the money, and can someone confirm that for me,

[Speaker 1] (36:53 - 36:55)
that we do have the funds available for that?

[Speaker 5] (36:56 - 36:57)
We might.

[Speaker 1] (36:57 - 36:57)
We might.

[Speaker 1] (36:57 - 37:04)
It should come out of the TA consulting budget. Probably not, because it doesn't sound to me like it was something the TA came to us and said,

[Speaker 1] (37:04 - 37:09)
do you guys want to engage in this? Is this something we should do, right? And I'm not going to put somebody in that position.

[Speaker 1] (37:10 - 37:16)
Who, quite frankly, you know, is interviewing every day for this job, right? So I don't think it's fair to put him in the spot to say,

[Speaker 1] (37:16 - 37:19)
oh, I said it, I didn't say it.

[Speaker 1] (37:19 - 37:20)
That's not, that's not the right call,

[Speaker 1] (37:20 - 37:21)
right?

[Speaker 1] (37:21 - 37:26)
The chair made the decision and no, you know, not saying it was a good decision or bad decision.

[Speaker 1] (37:27 - 37:28)
Let's own it.

[Speaker 1] (37:28 - 37:29)
We'll fix it going forward.

[Speaker 1] (37:30 - 37:51)
We won't you know we there's a new procedure right we'll go over procedure and we'll we'll vote on things as a group right we'll come to a collective and that's how we proceed right that's the new select board right but I don't want to see us putting town employees in an uncomfortable inappropriate position because I really don't think it's on them it's on us it's on the five of us right that's just what my.

[Speaker 3] (37:51 - 37:53)
It is on us, Daniel,

[Speaker 3] (37:53 - 37:56)
but it's also on us to ensure that we're.

[Speaker 3] (37:57 - 38:02)
you know, that we're properly and effectively communicating and we're following the rules.

[Speaker 1] (38:02 - 38:02)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 3] (38:02 - 38:16)
And we're making sure that we're making sure that town employees aren't put in a difficult situation where they're where they're faced with taking direction from the town administrator who is in charge of the day to day operations of the town or a select board member.

[Speaker 1] (38:16 - 38:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (38:16 - 38:19)
And I know all of us at some point.

[Speaker 3] (38:20 - 38:43)
have you know had are guilty of that but we all need to do a better job of this we all need to make sure that there is a chain of command and we all need to make sure that we're that we're that we're delegating uh to the town administrator we should all be communicating with the town administrator you know going around the town administrator is is is not acceptable it just it just causes chaos as we've as we've seen

[Speaker 3] (38:44 - 38:45)
So again,

[Speaker 3] (38:45 - 38:48)
I think the select board should stay out of the day-to-day operations of the town,

[Speaker 3] (38:49 - 38:51)
leave that to the professional staff and the town administrator,

[Speaker 3] (38:51 - 38:55)
leave that in his capable hands and in his team's hands,

[Speaker 3] (38:55 - 38:56)
and we can set the policy.

[Speaker 4] (38:57 - 39:06)
So I would suggest there's three issues here. One is we need to vote on the fiscal year-end transfers, the agenda item that we're ostensibly talking about here.

[Speaker 4] (39:06 - 39:10)
And the second one is how we pay that invoice.

[Speaker 4] (39:11 - 39:19)
And the third is we're gonna be taking up the select board handbook and making it very clear what the handbook says,

[Speaker 4] (39:19 - 39:21)
what the interaction is with town hall staff,

[Speaker 4] (39:22 - 39:25)
and making sure that everyone agrees to and signs that handbook and abide.

[Speaker 4] (39:25 - 39:41)
and a by it's by it will be doing that at our next meeting so so I would look for a motion to approve the fiscal year-end transfers as recommended by the interim town administrator so moved all

[Speaker 1] (39:41 - 39:42)
Second.

[Speaker 4] (39:42 - 39:43)
in favor

[Speaker 1] (39:43 - 39:44)
Aye.

[Speaker 3] (39:44 - 39:44)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (39:44 - 39:44)
Aye.

[Speaker 3] (39:44 - 39:44)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (39:44 - 39:45)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (39:45 - 39:45)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (39:47 - 39:47)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (39:49 - 39:50)
Moving on.

[Speaker 1] (39:51 - 39:52)
To rodents.

[Speaker 1] (39:54 - 39:55)
Deb,

[Speaker 1] (39:55 - 39:57)
are you going to give us a tour?

[Speaker 2] (40:04 - 40:05)
Right. Can you hear me?

[Speaker 4] (40:06 - 40:13)
So, I'm Deb Newman, and I really appreciate being able to give this presentation.

[Speaker 4] (40:14 - 40:30)
I believe that all of you likely are opposed to second generation anticoagulant rodenticides, or SGRs, and I think most of us know that they kill not just rats and mice, but also any other animal who eats affected rats or mice.

[Speaker 4] (40:32 - 40:41)
The outcry against asgars, about the needless deaths of hawks, owls, eagles, foxes, coyotes and others whose diet depends on rodents.

[Speaker 4] (40:42 - 40:50)
Mass Audubon has a successful campaign against asgars called Save and insert the name of the municipality,

[Speaker 4] (40:51 - 40:52)
Wildlife,

[Speaker 4] (40:52 - 40:55)
and they asked me to head up Save Swampscott Wildlife.

[Speaker 4] (40:57 - 41:02)
I declined because I want Swampscott to go a step further than Mass Audubon who,

[Speaker 4] (41:02 - 41:11)
because they admittedly feared too much pushback, stopped short of recommending two very consequential components in their policies,

[Speaker 4] (41:12 - 41:16)
components that they believe in and espouse on their website.

[Speaker 4] (41:17 - 41:26)
That is complete prohibition of escargot use and consideration for the suffering of the rodents we poison by any means.

[Speaker 4] (41:27 - 41:31)
Mass Audubon also references the practices of a good friend of mine,

[Speaker 4] (41:31 - 41:46)
Rebecca Dmitryk, who owns Humane Wildlife Control Incorporated in California and was recognized in 2020 with the Integrated Pest Management Achievement Award from the California EPA Department of Pesticide Regulation.

[Speaker 4] (41:46 - 41:47)
regulation in 2020 yes

[Speaker 1] (41:47 - 41:48)
We can.

[Speaker 1] (41:48 - 41:52)
Can I stand up? Are we still on the first slide or should we be moving?

[Speaker 4] (41:52 - 41:52)
well

[Speaker 1] (41:52 - 41:52)
We have, okay.

[Speaker 4] (41:52 - 41:57)
yeah I'll let her know yeah I'm sorry for making this so long but

[Speaker 4] (42:00 - 42:15)
So, you know, I'm very privileged to know her. The award specifically acknowledged her use of humane and environmentally friendly methods in resolving wildlife conflicts using compassion and respect for all animals.

[Speaker 4] (42:16 - 42:22)
She and Mass Audubon emphasize that the best rodent management is trash management,

[Speaker 4] (42:22 - 42:26)
and that bait is just another food source to draw them to an area.

[Speaker 4] (42:26 - 42:29)
Despite all the poison bait we put out,

[Speaker 4] (42:29 - 42:31)
rodents are still in Swampscott.

[Speaker 4] (42:32 - 42:33)
Next slide, Diane.

[Speaker 4] (42:34 - 42:34)
Please.

[Speaker 4] (42:35 - 42:44)
So I mention my non-profit because it's the entity bringing you this presentation, and I want to reiterate that my approach to the topic,

[Speaker 4] (42:44 - 42:49)
including what's in the handouts I gave you, is from an animal advocacy standpoint.

[Speaker 4] (42:50 - 42:59)
I note that I'm a lawyer only because the proposals that I gave you to contemplate are legal in nature and written by me.

[Speaker 4] (43:00 - 43:06)
So this is just a little fun piece of trivia that's really not so trivial.

[Speaker 4] (43:06 - 43:07)
Next slide,

[Speaker 4] (43:07 - 43:08)
Diane.

[Speaker 4] (43:09 - 43:16)
For centuries rats have taken the rap for spreading one of the worst and longest running pandemics in human history,

[Speaker 4] (43:16 - 43:16)
the Black Death.

[Speaker 4] (43:17 - 43:25)
Since then we've been reinforced to react to rats with disgust, panic, and a fierce desire to eradicate them by any means.

[Speaker 4] (43:26 - 43:33)
Yes, rats like most animals can carry the fleas that in turn carry the bacteria that cause plague.

[Speaker 4] (43:34 - 43:37)
But, this is very interesting,

[Speaker 4] (43:37 - 43:43)
recent studies have shown that plague was actually spread by human fleas and human body lice.

[Speaker 4] (43:44 - 43:48)
Further spread of the disease was through human to human contact just like COVID.

[Speaker 4] (43:48 - 43:50)
Next slide please.

[Speaker 4] (43:51 - 43:53)
As you may know,

[Speaker 4] (43:53 - 44:04)
escars cause a grisly death by disrupting vitamin K's recycling in the body so an animal who ingests them will bleed out in a few days.

[Speaker 4] (44:05 - 44:18)
Massachusetts municipalities have no jurisdiction to regulate rodenticide use through local laws, excuse me, but they can control application on public property by policy.

[Speaker 4] (44:18 - 44:23)
This should include a complete ban on certain poisons, especially escars.

[Speaker 4] (44:23 - 44:28)
Even more important is setting the example for and educating residents,

[Speaker 4] (44:28 - 44:36)
restaurant owners and managers of condo complexes to stop using escars and try lower risk alternatives.

[Speaker 4] (44:36 - 44:43)
I've seen many escar containing boxes outside condo complexes and food establishments. Why?

[Speaker 4] (44:43 - 44:46)
Because escars are the go-to for exterminators.

[Speaker 4] (44:47 - 44:55)
The Swampscott Health Department should promote alternatives and not simply recommend that residents call an exterminator if they have a problem.

[Speaker 4] (44:56 - 44:57)
Next slide, please.

[Speaker 4] (44:59 - 45:14)
The beginning of this year, I was told that Swampscott had stopped using escars on public property and that we don't need an official policy to ban them because the few people in charge of rodent management had agreed to stop using escars.

[Speaker 4] (45:15 - 45:18)
As much as I believe these particular people's intentions,

[Speaker 4] (45:18 - 45:22)
I don't think we should rely on a gentleman's agreement for something this serious.

[Speaker 4] (45:23 - 45:27)
We need a real policy that anyone can understand and follow.

[Speaker 4] (45:28 - 45:40)
Around that same time, I found seven bait boxes labeled brodifacum, which is an escar, and 13 with no label but otherwise similar to the escar bait boxes.

[Speaker 4] (45:41 - 45:48)
At the end of May, I found on six town properties at least eight unlabeled bait boxes that could contain escars.

[Speaker 4] (45:49 - 45:54)
Legally, only indoor bait boxes must be labeled with their ingredients.

[Speaker 4] (45:54 - 46:00)
But given that these could contain escars, everyone should be able to identify what kind of poison is on public property,

[Speaker 4] (46:01 - 46:02)
especially at schools.

[Speaker 4] (46:02 - 46:05)
And if they are housing snap traps,

[Speaker 4] (46:05 - 46:08)
we should be allowed to know what bait is inside.

[Speaker 4] (46:09 - 46:17)
The only way I found out what actually had been used was by making a public records request of documents related to pesticides and exterminators.

[Speaker 4] (46:17 - 46:18)
Next slide.

[Speaker 4] (46:22 - 46:30)
This is an example of an IPM plan that are required at a Swampscott school,

[Speaker 4] (46:30 - 46:32)
daycare, or early learning center.

[Speaker 4] (46:33 - 46:39)
This is the list of pesticides that was used at the Swampscott Middle School at least through November 2023.

[Speaker 4] (46:40 - 46:46)
The form asks for the type of pests that have historically and or currently been a problem.

[Speaker 4] (46:47 - 46:49)
Repeatedly mentioned are mosquitoes and termites.

[Speaker 4] (46:49 - 46:52)
Rodents are never mentioned, yet escars are listed.

[Speaker 4] (46:53 - 46:58)
This could be an oversight, of course, but the IPM plan is recorded with the state,

[Speaker 4] (46:58 - 46:59)
so should be accurate.

[Speaker 4] (47:00 - 47:04)
Important to note that the SGAR used is brodifacum technical,

[Speaker 4] (47:04 - 47:12)
which is 95% concentration of the rodenticide. At that level, it's also fatal to humans,

[Speaker 4] (47:13 - 47:14)
companion animals,

[Speaker 4] (47:14 - 47:17)
and non-target wildlife if swallowed,

[Speaker 4] (47:17 - 47:19)
inhaled, absorbed through the skin,

[Speaker 4] (47:19 - 47:20)
or in the eyes.

[Speaker 4] (47:21 - 47:23)
So without home rule,

[Speaker 4] (47:23 - 47:24)
which I'll get to shortly,

[Speaker 4] (47:24 - 47:28)
the town has no authority over rodent management at private schools.

[Speaker 4] (47:29 - 47:30)
Still,

[Speaker 4] (47:30 - 47:31)
just as an example,

[Speaker 4] (47:32 - 47:39)
the First Church Nursery School's IPM plan form states that rats were seen when trash was being removed there.

[Speaker 4] (47:40 - 47:43)
They called A1 exterminators who laid out bait stations,

[Speaker 4] (47:43 - 47:46)
and I'll bet anything that those contained escars.

[Speaker 4] (47:46 - 47:51)
The most significant piece of this is that the rats were at the trash site,

[Speaker 4] (47:51 - 47:55)
which typically means it's not being properly managed. If it were,

[Speaker 4] (47:55 - 47:57)
rodent control would be less of an issue.

[Speaker 4] (47:58 - 48:00)
Next slide, please.

[Speaker 4] (48:02 - 48:09)
This is a small sampling of what to do better to eliminate the need for so many rodenticides of any form.

[Speaker 4] (48:09 - 48:14)
The biggest attractant, as everybody knows, for rodents is trash and other food sources.

[Speaker 4] (48:15 - 48:20)
The open barrels depicted are at Hadley, the other barrels are behind the fire station,

[Speaker 4] (48:20 - 48:22)
and although they look neat and clean,

[Speaker 4] (48:22 - 48:28)
a firefighter told me that the barrels regularly need replacement because rats keep chewing through them.

[Speaker 4] (48:29 - 48:45)
The question is, what is in those barrels that is so attractive to rats? Are leftover meals or other foodstuffs being discarded in the trash rather than put in a garbage disposal or secure compost bin? And I'm not blaming anybody by asking this, I'm just saying.

[Speaker 4] (48:45 - 48:47)
If they must go into the bin,

[Speaker 4] (48:47 - 48:51)
maybe we could invest in rat-proof barrels, which do exist,

[Speaker 4] (48:51 - 48:54)
or keep the barrels inside the building until pick-up.

[Speaker 4] (48:55 - 48:55)
Next slide.

[Speaker 4] (48:57 - 49:00)
So on to policies.

[Speaker 4] (49:00 - 49:06)
Mass Audubon's campaign helped to get these bans and proposals that are on the slide.

[Speaker 4] (49:06 - 49:09)
More are happening and they're heightening.

[Speaker 4] (49:09 - 49:10)
However,

[Speaker 4] (49:10 - 49:11)
as I mentioned,

[Speaker 4] (49:11 - 49:13)
many of the policies are flawed.

[Speaker 4] (49:13 - 49:20)
They allow for emergency escar use in even a more liberal way than the proposed state rodenticide bill.

[Speaker 4] (49:21 - 49:27)
which at least requires a written rationale for using escars instead of short-term alternatives.

[Speaker 4] (49:28 - 49:30)
To have a real effect on saving birds of prey,

[Speaker 4] (49:31 - 49:33)
coyotes, and other rodent-loving mammals,

[Speaker 4] (49:33 - 49:36)
and even outdoor cats and dogs,

[Speaker 4] (49:36 - 49:38)
we need to ban escars completely.

[Speaker 1] (49:39 - 49:48)
Allowing 14-day emergency use is ridiculously counterproductive. And that's what Mass Audubon has recommended,

[Speaker 1] (49:48 - 49:54)
and that's what the state bill also recommends, a 14-day emergency use.

[Speaker 1] (49:56 - 50:01)
Effective low-risk alternatives exist for a so-called emergency.

[Speaker 1] (50:02 - 50:07)
Cholecalciferol, corn gluten, and CO2 are examples of those.

[Speaker 1] (50:07 - 50:10)
Not that these cause pleasant deaths for rodents.

[Speaker 1] (50:10 - 50:13)
Cholecalciferol, which is high dose vitamin D,

[Speaker 1] (50:13 - 50:16)
causes kidney and heart failure over several days.

[Speaker 1] (50:17 - 50:20)
Corn gluten prevents neuromessaging of thirst,

[Speaker 1] (50:21 - 50:23)
so rodents slowly and painfully dehydrate.

[Speaker 1] (50:24 - 50:30)
CO2 can cause distress and pain if not administered by gradual displacement of air,

[Speaker 1] (50:31 - 50:35)
a process that may be hard to control in the extermination boxes.

[Speaker 1] (50:35 - 50:43)
The National Institute of Health reported that death by CO2 for lab rats is no longer considered humane.

[Speaker 1] (50:43 - 50:47)
And I know our rats are not lab rats, but they're still alive.

[Speaker 1] (50:48 - 51:14)
You don't have to read this whole slide. I just want to make the point that this is part of the state bill and if passed it won't take effect until January of 2027. It restricts use to licensed applicators aka exterminators in public health emergencies only but unfortunately also allows up to 14 days worth

[Speaker 1] (51:14 - 51:15)
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1] (51:15 - 51:16)
Thanks, Diane.

[Speaker 1] (51:16 - 51:20)
14 days worth of escar application in an emergency.

[Speaker 1] (51:21 - 51:21)
Again,

[Speaker 1] (51:21 - 51:31)
that's counterproductive. And unless and until the bill passes, exterminators are free to apply escars on any private property at any time.

[Speaker 1] (51:32 - 51:35)
So it's sort of like swimming against the tide,

[Speaker 1] (51:35 - 51:35)
next slide,

[Speaker 1] (51:36 - 51:43)
Diane, thank you, because even if we are wonderful and publicly ban them on public property.

[Speaker 1] (51:45 - 51:48)
everybody else is still putting them down, all the private people.

[Speaker 1] (51:49 - 51:58)
So also it's important to note that the state's definition shown on the slide of a public health emergency is something dire and imminent.

[Speaker 1] (51:58 - 52:03)
So I'd be surprised if we actually have one caused by rodents.

[Speaker 1] (52:03 - 52:06)
Maybe you should take a sec to actually read that definition.

[Speaker 1] (52:09 - 52:10)
Many communities,

[Speaker 1] (52:10 - 52:11)
including ours,

[Speaker 1] (52:11 - 52:16)
consider any congregation of rats to be an infestation and an emergency.

[Speaker 1] (52:17 - 52:27)
Another problem is that some policies allow one single local official to arbitrarily decide if emergency use is warranted.

[Speaker 1] (52:27 - 52:30)
We should define this term in our policy,

[Speaker 1] (52:30 - 52:40)
and I suggest that the authority to implement emergency applications should be by order of at least two officials chosen among the health director,

[Speaker 1] (52:40 - 52:41)
the town administrator,

[Speaker 1] (52:41 - 52:43)
and the DPW director.

[Speaker 1] (52:45 - 52:47)
Next slide.

[Speaker 1] (52:47 - 52:48)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (52:48 - 52:50)
I jumped ahead,

[Speaker 1] (52:50 - 52:50)
That's

[Speaker 2] (52:50 - 52:50)
sorry.

[Speaker 1] (52:50 - 52:50)
all right.

[Speaker 1] (52:51 - 52:57)
Federal law prevents consumers from buying escars directly, thank goodness,

[Speaker 1] (52:57 - 53:01)
but as mentioned they can hire an exterminator to apply them.

[Speaker 1] (53:02 - 53:10)
Home rule would allow the town to completely prohibit escars on public and private property with a bylaw.

[Speaker 1] (53:10 - 53:17)
Also we could better ensure use of lower risk alternatives if a public health emergency truly happens.

[Speaker 1] (53:20 - 53:24)
I gave each of you handouts of a proposed version of a policy,

[Speaker 1] (53:24 - 53:25)
a warrant article,

[Speaker 1] (53:25 - 53:26)
home rule petition,

[Speaker 1] (53:27 - 53:28)
and a bylaw for swamps caught.

[Speaker 1] (53:28 - 53:38)
And I just want to point out that the local policy and the local bylaw, you don't have the local bylaw because it's pretty much the same as the local policy.

[Speaker 1] (53:40 - 53:43)
And yes, I've put some focus on

[Speaker 1] (53:44 - 53:51)
the humane aspect and use of lower risk rodenticides, so I hope you and Town Council give that consideration.

[Speaker 1] (53:52 - 53:57)
Creating the local policy to prohibit escars will also mean changing some current bylaws,

[Speaker 1] (53:57 - 54:01)
for example the sections about rodent control under earth removal.

[Speaker 1] (54:01 - 54:05)
Currently the type of bait is not specified there.

[Speaker 1] (54:05 - 54:09)
Getting home rule could take some time but there's nothing wrong in filing.

[Speaker 1] (54:10 - 54:29)
lots of municipalities have and you know they're still waiting for an answer but at least they're working on it next slide please so I got a couple of questions for town council and I say I think I can guess the answers to these but I'd like to ask anyway

[Speaker 1] (54:31 - 54:36)
So though the town has no direct legal authority over pesticide use on private property,

[Speaker 1] (54:36 - 54:41)
it can tell contractors that they must use IPM during earth removal.

[Speaker 1] (54:42 - 54:49)
And my question is if Swampscott has a policy for types of rodenticides allowed on town property,

[Speaker 1] (54:49 - 54:51)
can the policy extend to the IPM choices?

[Speaker 1] (54:53 - 54:54)
And my second question,

[Speaker 1] (54:54 - 54:56)
which I think the answer is no,

[Speaker 1] (54:56 - 55:05)
could that be generalized to limit rodenticide choices to non-escars only in certain permits for restaurants,

[Speaker 1] (55:05 - 55:08)
supermarkets, and other establishments that sell food?

[Speaker 1] (55:08 - 55:10)
I don't know what you can do in a permit,

[Speaker 1] (55:10 - 55:20)
so it's kind of confounded with the fact that we don't really have jurisdiction to tell private people what to do.

[Speaker 1] (55:21 - 55:24)
as far as pesticides go.

[Speaker 1] (55:25 - 55:26)
Next slide please.

[Speaker 1] (55:28 - 55:38)
So I want to make you aware of two methods of controlling rodent populations that have the lowest risk to any other wildlife and are the most humane to rodents.

[Speaker 1] (55:38 - 55:41)
Initially they are more effective when used together.

[Speaker 1] (55:41 - 55:47)
The shock boxes can be baited with peanut butter or a lower risk rodenticide that I mentioned earlier.

[Speaker 1] (55:48 - 55:55)
ContraPest is a contraceptive for rats and mice and it doesn't affect other animals who may ingest it.

[Speaker 1] (55:55 - 56:03)
After a year you can see up to a 95% reduction in population and that is important in the sense that

[Speaker 1] (56:03 - 56:17)
You know, we're baiting and baiting and baiting and we're still having lots of rodents. So in February I called A1 exterminators to see if they could give an estimate on using shock boxes plus contrapest.

[Speaker 1] (56:17 - 56:20)
They said they'd have to talk with a town official to see what's needed.

[Speaker 1] (56:22 - 56:27)
The shock boxes are good for outdoor use and on Amazon they're $78 for two,

[Speaker 1] (56:28 - 56:29)
so it's not expensive.

[Speaker 1] (56:29 - 56:36)
And I have a connection who discounts the contrapets bait stations and the bait for them from municipalities.

[Speaker 1] (56:37 - 56:40)
In March I talked with Max Casper, I see him there,

[Speaker 1] (56:40 - 56:47)
who suggested a pilot program at Fisherman's Beach might be possible when I asked about that.

[Speaker 1] (56:47 - 56:50)
And if the town doesn't want to pay for a pilot program,

[Speaker 1] (56:50 - 56:52)
speak up for animals.

[Speaker 1] (56:52 - 56:53)
Well, I'm

[Speaker 1] (56:55 - 56:55)
almost done.

[Speaker 1] (56:56 - 56:58)
So next slide,

[Speaker 1] (56:58 - 56:59)
Diane, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (57:01 - 57:04)
My final comments are about the flyer on the town website.

[Speaker 1] (57:04 - 57:05)
It is bad.

[Speaker 1] (57:06 - 57:07)
Please replace it.

[Speaker 1] (57:07 - 57:16)
Although it does have suggestions about trash and tightening up your property, ultimately it promotes the idea that wildlife is our enemy.

[Speaker 1] (57:17 - 57:19)
Whenever wildlife encroaches upon humans,

[Speaker 1] (57:19 - 57:26)
we seem to ignore our part in creating the problem and opt to kill off the so-called nuisance.

[Speaker 1] (57:26 - 57:34)
Also, everyone needs to know that removal of live wildlife applies to any wild animal you want off your property.

[Speaker 1] (57:34 - 57:36)
Squirrels in the attic,

[Speaker 1] (57:36 - 57:38)
raccoons under the deck, etc.

[Speaker 1] (57:38 - 57:43)
The law requires that when caught, if they are not released directly on your property,

[Speaker 1] (57:44 - 57:45)
they are to be euthanized.

[Speaker 1] (57:46 - 57:52)
Your exterminator or problem animal control agent may tell you they use humane methods,

[Speaker 1] (57:52 - 57:55)
but they mean that the trapping will be humane.

[Speaker 1] (57:56 - 58:03)
Likely they won't ask permission to release the animals on your property or tell you that they are taking the animals back to their office.

[Speaker 1] (58:03 - 58:06)
office to put into a CO2 chamber to kill.

[Speaker 1] (58:07 - 58:11)
Often in spring and summer these are mothers with a bunch of babies.

[Speaker 1] (58:11 - 58:14)
And regarding glue boards,

[Speaker 1] (58:14 - 58:17)
they're used in our schools and elsewhere indoors.

[Speaker 1] (58:17 - 58:22)
These are horrifically inhumane and we should stop contributing to that.

[Speaker 1] (58:22 - 58:31)
A couple of teachers told me they were appalled to find them. They're so barbaric that Congress is considering a bill to ban their sale nationwide.

[Speaker 1] (58:33 - 58:33)
Next slide.

[Speaker 1] (58:35 - 58:37)
So here's a summary.

[Speaker 1] (58:37 - 58:42)
You guys all have the slide so you can look at the summary and think.

[Speaker 1] (58:44 - 58:47)
This is what I think a good rodenticide policy should include.

[Speaker 1] (58:48 - 58:57)
And you know, I'm hoping that you'll let me collaborate on instituting a policy and proposing a warrant article for home rule.

[Speaker 1] (58:58 - 59:00)
Next slide, please.

[Speaker 1] (59:01 - 59:06)
So, when reading the proposals I've handed out, please remember this slide.

[Speaker 1] (59:08 - 59:08)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (59:09 - 59:12)
Thank you Deb, appreciate that.

[Speaker 2] (59:16 - 59:17)
So um

[Speaker 2] (59:19 - 59:21)
at this moment in time

[Speaker 2] (59:22 - 59:26)
what exactly do you I know you've kind of said it, but just to boil it all down, what

[Speaker 1] (59:26 - 59:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (59:26 - 59:28)
what exactly do you hope

[Speaker 2] (59:28 - 59:29)
would happen first.

[Speaker 1] (59:31 - 59:33)
First, I would hope that there would be a policy.

[Speaker 1] (59:41 - 59:55)
which would be the shock boxes and contrapests around town, then at least definitely not using escars and maybe using the cholecalciferol.

[Speaker 1] (59:56 - 1:00:22)
or the um on gluten. You know, I'm not thrilled with either one of those. I know there are C_O_ two things going on in town. You know, I've seen them um, you know, those aren't great either in a humane sense. But escars, the problem with them is that they kill a lot of other animals too. Um y I can't help but ki be concerned for the way that the rodents are treated and killed.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:23 - 1:00:38)
They're just like any other wildlife so that would be the first thing to have an actual policy as I say So there's not a gentleman's agreement like oh We won't use them because we don't even know what's in those boxes anymore the labels have been removed

[Speaker 1] (1:00:39 - 1:00:40)
Which was a little weird?

[Speaker 1] (1:00:42 - 1:00:46)
And the other thing is I

[Speaker 1] (1:00:48 - 1:00:49)
really would like to

[Speaker 1] (1:00:50 - 1:00:55)
see if there's money in the budget, and I know there probably isn't,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:55 - 1:00:55)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:55 - 1:01:18)
uh but it wouldn't cost a lot uh to do a pilot programme at Fisherman's Beach, which is supposed to be a heinous attractant for rodents, of shot boxes and contra pests, and see what happens. They you know I the contra pests can take months to have any effect, but that's why you use the shot boxes with it.

[Speaker 1] (1:01:18 - 1:01:25)
You know, I'm not thrilled with that either, but it is the most humane method of killing rodents. So

[Speaker 3] (1:01:25 - 1:01:25)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:01:26 - 1:01:26)
that's all.

[Speaker 4] (1:01:27 - 1:01:33)
Does Borg want it? I I was also gonna wonder whether or not we should have Gino respond in any way first, but whatever you think.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:33 - 1:01:33)
Oh, go on. Uh

[Speaker 4] (1:01:33 - 1:01:33)
Oh.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:33 - 1:01:36)
Gino, I I defer to a tenured

[Speaker 4] (1:01:36 - 1:01:36)
If you have

[Speaker 3] (1:01:36 - 1:01:36)
administrator.

[Speaker 4] (1:01:36 - 1:01:43)
thoughts about this, I just wanted to give you a chance to educate us about I'm sure you and Deb have talked about this in the past.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:43 - 1:01:43)
We have.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:44 - 1:01:44)
And I like

[Speaker 4] (1:01:45 - 1:01:48)
support Max's idea of doing a pilot at the fish house.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:48 - 1:01:49)
Oh thank you.

[Speaker 4] (1:01:49 - 1:01:54)
There's predominantly that's where we get most of our complaints although we think we get a lot of them some of them.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:54 - 1:02:05)
Blaney we have we've been in data on Blaney Street I would I would rather if it's possible I'd rather see Blaney Street before the fish house only because that whole neighborhood there gets hit really hard.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:06 - 1:02:07)
Yep. That was my second watching.

[Speaker 5] (1:02:07 - 1:02:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:07 - 1:02:08)
I don't know where the next one.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:08 - 1:02:09)
Talk.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:09 - 1:02:09)
What?

[Speaker 4] (1:02:10 - 1:02:11)
Doesn't matter right?

[Speaker 3] (1:02:11 - 1:02:12)
Oh yeah, you have one.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:12 - 1:02:14)
Well one's private property.

[Speaker 5] (1:02:16 - 1:02:19)
Has the health director weighed in at all on this, the actual

[Speaker 3] (1:02:19 - 1:02:20)
Or the

[Speaker 5] (1:02:20 - 1:02:20)
health

[Speaker 3] (1:02:20 - 1:02:20)
board of

[Speaker 5] (1:02:20 - 1:02:22)
director who this is his domain, right?

[Speaker 4] (1:02:23 - 1:02:23)
But the head coordinator

[Speaker 5] (1:02:23 - 1:02:24)
Have we talked to

[Speaker 4] (1:02:24 - 1:02:24)
I haven't

[Speaker 5] (1:02:24 - 1:02:24)
him?

[Speaker 1] (1:02:24 - 1:02:24)
The

[Speaker 4] (1:02:24 - 1:02:24)
I don't

[Speaker 1] (1:02:24 - 1:02:29)
only thing I've talked to Jeff about mostly is the um

[Speaker 1] (1:02:31 - 1:02:38)
the thing that's on the website that's flyer the flyer that's kind of hateful to rodents, but um

[Speaker 1] (1:02:39 - 1:02:47)
I haven't talked about a pilot program with him. I don't think. It was a while ago that I talked with him and I don't remember if I talked with Jeff at this point.

[Speaker 6] (1:02:47 - 1:02:48)
Yeah, Deb,

[Speaker 6] (1:02:49 - 1:02:50)
thank you for the presentation.

[Speaker 6] (1:02:50 - 1:03:05)
I just wanted to clarify when you speak about CO2, to me that can mean a couple of different things because there's CO2 used in pest control in a couple of different ways. They will actually use the gas into the holes to kill the rats.

[Speaker 6] (1:03:05 - 1:03:06)
We have done that.

[Speaker 6] (1:03:06 - 1:03:31)
um and then the boxes that we have in multiple locations in town um they you may call them co2 but it's not that they're being like poisoned by co2 it's actually a piston in a very quick uh death similar to a shock and i we've done that at the fish house we've done that here at the high school and we've done it at town hall um we've actually removed quite a bit of rodents with that um

[Speaker 6] (1:03:32 - 1:03:40)
That option, I don't know if, to me that sounds like a similar approach to the shock boxes, but I just wanted to get your opinion on that.

[Speaker 1] (1:03:41 - 1:03:49)
Only, I do understand that they have a piston in them, yes, but they may be,

[Speaker 1] (1:03:49 - 1:03:54)
the inhalation of the CO2 at any point is a bummer for them.

[Speaker 1] (1:03:55 - 1:03:56)
It's painful.

[Speaker 1] (1:03:58 - 1:04:03)
I would rather see them, you know, killed immediately without CO2,

[Speaker 1] (1:04:03 - 1:04:04)
if

[Speaker 1] (1:04:05 - 1:04:06)
possible, that's all.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:07 - 1:04:12)
Don't we already have a policy in place that we don't, we um don't use the road.

[Speaker 7] (1:04:12 - 1:04:12)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (1:04:13 - 1:04:13)
Yes, we we're not using

[Speaker 5] (1:04:13 - 1:04:14)
So it's twenty

[Speaker 6] (1:04:14 - 1:04:14)
escars.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:14 - 1:04:14)
since

[Speaker 6] (1:04:14 - 1:04:14)
That's correct.

[Speaker 7] (1:04:14 - 1:04:15)
So don't

[Speaker 5] (1:04:15 - 1:04:15)
twenty twenty

[Speaker 7] (1:04:15 - 1:04:15)
use escars.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:15 - 1:04:16)
two, we don't.

[Speaker 6] (1:04:16 - 1:04:19)
I don't think there's a policy in place, but we have

[Speaker 5] (1:04:19 - 1:04:20)
been It's just, Mr.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:20 - 1:04:21)
Fitzgerald, I

[Speaker 6] (1:04:21 - 1:04:21)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:21 - 1:04:21)
know, was

[Speaker 6] (1:04:21 - 1:04:22)
That's correct.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:22 - 1:04:24)
really serious about that.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:24 - 1:04:26)
So I know when we had an issue with

[Speaker 4] (1:04:27 - 1:04:31)
Rodents are on the monument. You CO2, you pump the CO2 into that rat hole and

[Speaker 1] (1:04:31 - 1:04:32)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:32 - 1:04:33)
wait very long.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:34 - 1:04:35)
Don't know what it did to

[Speaker 1] (1:04:35 - 1:04:35)
I

[Speaker 4] (1:04:35 - 1:04:35)
the rats.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:35 - 1:04:35)
don't know.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:35 - 1:04:38)
I know what it did to the rats, but I don't know how they suffered.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:38 - 1:04:39)
Unfortunately,

[Speaker 1] (1:04:39 - 1:04:42)
if you have any moles or anybody else living underground,

[Speaker 1] (1:04:42 - 1:04:43)
they're also dead.

[Speaker 1] (1:04:46 - 1:05:04)
Uh just not to be argumentative at all, I went around and actually looked at the boxes because when I spoke with Max he said we're not using escars, but uh there were seven boxes labelled bauxite which is an escar, with a label. So

[Speaker 5] (1:05:04 - 1:05:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:05 - 1:05:05)
uh

[Speaker 8] (1:05:05 - 1:05:08)
But some of those boxes I think have been left out for years that the company's

[Speaker 1] (1:05:08 - 1:05:09)
That's

[Speaker 8] (1:05:09 - 1:05:09)
left

[Speaker 1] (1:05:09 - 1:05:09)
of

[Speaker 8] (1:05:09 - 1:05:09)
them

[Speaker 1] (1:05:09 - 1:05:09)
course

[Speaker 8] (1:05:09 - 1:05:09)
behind

[Speaker 1] (1:05:09 - 1:05:09)
possible.

[Speaker 8] (1:05:09 - 1:05:10)
instead of yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:05:11 - 1:05:14)
I know we had one at the DPW that sat there for years, so.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:14 - 1:05:25)
Well, when I looked through A1s and I forget the name of the other company that Swanskot uses for extermination, there was still listed.

[Speaker 3] (1:05:26 - 1:05:26)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:26 - 1:05:30)
the use of escars, yes, past 2022,

[Speaker 1] (1:05:30 - 1:05:30)
and

[Speaker 5] (1:05:30 - 1:05:31)
Dave?

[Speaker 1] (1:05:31 - 1:05:32)
even more recently.

[Speaker 6] (1:05:32 - 1:05:33)
Oh, Deb,

[Speaker 6] (1:05:33 - 1:05:34)
thank you for your presentation.

[Speaker 6] (1:05:34 - 1:05:41)
So what is the half-life of escars? So if we do have boxes that are lying around that have just...

[Speaker 1] (1:05:41 - 1:05:42)
I don't know.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:42 - 1:05:51)
I I don't know, but um it doesn't take much depending on the size of another animal who eats one.

[Speaker 1] (1:05:51 - 1:05:54)
Uh I I think if it's just sitting as bait

[Speaker 1] (1:05:56 - 1:05:59)
I shouldn't answer, but I don't I feel as if

[Speaker 3] (1:06:00 - 1:06:00)
I just

[Speaker 1] (1:06:00 - 1:06:00)
it

[Speaker 3] (1:06:00 - 1:06:08)
want to know if I just want to know if just sitting around is if it's if it's harmful or if after a number of years or months or what what have you it becomes inherent.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:08 - 1:06:10)
I don't know the answer to that.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:10 - 1:06:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:12 - 1:06:13)
It's a good question.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:14 - 1:06:19)
All right, so it sounds like we'll kind of work on a pilot.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:20 - 1:06:21)
Laney and fishermen.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:23 - 1:06:24)
Who should I talk with about?

[Speaker 4] (1:06:24 - 1:06:25)
You're going to pay for it then? Is that what

[Speaker 1] (1:06:25 - 1:06:25)
you I

[Speaker 4] (1:06:25 - 1:06:26)
said?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:26 - 1:06:26)
will pay for

[Speaker 4] (1:06:26 - 1:06:26)
Yep,

[Speaker 1] (1:06:26 - 1:06:26)
it.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:26 - 1:06:28)
your organization is going to pay for it?

[Speaker 8] (1:06:28 - 1:06:31)
So if we do it on Blaney, is that going to be on private property?

[Speaker 8] (1:06:32 - 1:06:32)
Or

[Speaker 1] (1:06:32 - 1:06:32)
Well,

[Speaker 8] (1:06:32 - 1:06:32)
is it concerned?

[Speaker 1] (1:06:32 - 1:06:45)
the problem that might happen from that is that if there's a lot of trash stuff going on from the restaurants there, it might be counterproductive. But I mean I know the fish house is very stinky too,

[Speaker 1] (1:06:45 - 1:06:48)
so we kind of, I would like to be able to speak with them.

[Speaker 1] (1:06:49 - 1:06:54)
I think it is all private property, like behind, that's where the bakery used to be. That was all private

[Speaker 8] (1:06:54 - 1:06:54)
Is that

[Speaker 1] (1:06:54 - 1:06:54)
property.

[Speaker 8] (1:06:54 - 1:06:56)
Sheila or Dr

[Speaker 5] (1:06:56 - 1:06:59)
I don't think it would be I don't think people would have a prob I mean this is something you can probably just work out

[Speaker 1] (1:06:59 - 1:07:00)
No, I mean I

[Speaker 5] (1:07:00 - 1:07:01)
inside of here, but I don't think anybody

[Speaker 1] (1:07:01 - 1:07:01)
permission

[Speaker 5] (1:07:01 - 1:07:02)
have a problem. Yeah

[Speaker 8] (1:07:02 - 1:07:07)
Right. Well we used to work with Guardian Pest Control. He said he couldn't put his bait boxes on

[Speaker 1] (1:07:07 - 1:07:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:07:07 - 1:07:11)
public property, right. Like he couldn't put them on the sidewalk or the street.

[Speaker 8] (1:07:12 - 1:07:13)
It would have to be

[Speaker 4] (1:07:14 - 1:07:17)
on the back of the restaurant so we just need to get their permission.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:17 - 1:07:21)
Wait, isn't it something the Health Director should be figuring out? Isn't he the point of contact for something like this?

[Speaker 4] (1:07:21 - 1:07:24)
I think that's what Deb was just asking who she should be working with, right?

[Speaker 9] (1:07:24 - 1:07:24)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:07:24 - 1:07:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:24 - 1:07:30)
I mean, I find it, you know, a little frustrating that he's not here to actually, like, this is his issue. This is

[Speaker 1] (1:07:30 - 1:07:30)
Did

[Speaker 9] (1:07:30 - 1:07:31)
an issue

[Speaker 1] (1:07:31 - 1:07:31)
you say

[Speaker 9] (1:07:31 - 1:07:31)
that

[Speaker 1] (1:07:31 - 1:07:31)
Jeff?

[Speaker 9] (1:07:31 - 1:07:34)
he would be directly responsible for,

[Speaker 9] (1:07:34 - 1:07:34)
right?

[Speaker 3] (1:07:34 - 1:07:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:35 - 1:07:36)
He should be here to be able to.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:37 - 1:07:45)
you know discuss or contact these companies to see if indeed they are using escars or whatnot. We c we could know that. He could find that out, right?

[Speaker 1] (1:07:45 - 1:07:47)
I didn't invite him. I mean, I didn't think to

[Speaker 9] (1:07:47 - 1:07:47)
So

[Speaker 1] (1:07:47 - 1:07:47)
so.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:47 - 1:07:48)
no, I mean you should you

[Speaker 1] (1:07:48 - 1:07:49)
Oh, need he didn't know.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:49 - 1:07:49)
it.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:50 - 1:07:50)
Uh right.

[Speaker 9] (1:07:51 - 1:07:57)
But I mean it it's like if we were talking about community development, we would have Marzi here, right? So I don't think we can,

[Speaker 9] (1:07:57 - 1:08:03)
you know, do anything without him. I think he's the first the person that really knows this stuff better than I do or

[Speaker 1] (1:08:03 - 1:08:03)
Yeah,

[Speaker 9] (1:08:03 - 1:08:04)
anybody

[Speaker 1] (1:08:04 - 1:08:04)
I agree.

[Speaker 9] (1:08:04 - 1:08:05)
else up here, but

[Speaker 5] (1:08:06 - 1:08:06)
Okay,

[Speaker 4] (1:08:06 - 1:08:07)
Could

[Speaker 5] (1:08:07 - 1:08:07)
good.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:07 - 1:08:07)
be your contact.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:08 - 1:08:08)
Yeah, thank you.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:09 - 1:08:09)
Welcome.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:09 - 1:08:09)
Thanks,

[Speaker 4] (1:08:09 - 1:08:10)
Thank

[Speaker 9] (1:08:10 - 1:08:10)
Thank

[Speaker 5] (1:08:10 - 1:08:10)
Wayne.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:10 - 1:08:10)
you.

[Speaker 9] (1:08:10 - 1:08:10)
you, Deb.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:10 - 1:08:13)
Thank you for your patience. I know we kept moving you further and further.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:13 - 1:08:14)
Oh, I'm fine.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:14 - 1:08:14)
Hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:15 - 1:08:16)
Oh goody, what is it?

[Speaker 5] (1:08:17 - 1:08:18)
Oh goody. What is it?

[Speaker 3] (1:08:19 - 1:08:21)
That's hard especially if we are

[Speaker 9] (1:08:21 - 1:08:21)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:21 - 1:08:22)
in a long time.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:22 - 1:08:23)
for a long time. Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:23 - 1:08:23)
Okay.

[Speaker 9] (1:08:23 - 1:08:24)
Want to take control?

[Speaker 6] (1:08:24 - 1:08:24)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:26 - 1:08:27)
Thank you, Wayne.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:28 - 1:08:28)
That's okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:28 - 1:08:30)
We're not going to delve into the half-life of gas cars.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:31 - 1:08:31)
Okay,

[Speaker 6] (1:08:31 - 1:08:34)
next topic.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:34 - 1:08:44)
Um we're gonna have a joint meeting. Thank you for the housing authority uh being with us tonight. Do you all need to kind of

[Speaker 4] (1:08:45 - 1:08:47)
gavel in? You're in already?

[Speaker 4] (1:08:48 - 1:08:58)
Okay, fantastic. Um so we have uh you all doing a presentation uh Charlie and then uh Max.

[Speaker 4] (1:09:00 - 1:09:02)
Uh did you wanna

[Speaker 4] (1:09:02 - 1:09:04)
Start off, Max.

[Speaker 4] (1:09:06 - 1:09:07)
Does that make sense, Charlie?

[Speaker 4] (1:09:08 - 1:09:15)
Okay. Just give us a little background about the Clerk's Office and what the thoughts have been so far.

[Speaker 6] (1:09:16 - 1:09:17)
Sure. Thanks, Doug.

[Speaker 6] (1:09:17 - 1:09:24)
Yeah, I provided a quick memo for the board. The Clark School is still under the control of the school department.

[Speaker 5] (1:09:24 - 1:09:24)
What was

[Speaker 6] (1:09:24 - 1:09:24)
Obviously,

[Speaker 5] (1:09:24 - 1:09:24)
that?

[Speaker 6] (1:09:24 - 1:09:27)
it stopped being used Oh, as

[Speaker 5] (1:09:27 - 1:09:27)
dear.

[Speaker 6] (1:09:27 - 1:09:28)
an elementary school.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:31 - 1:09:43)
Last school year when we opened up the new elementary school, it's been mostly vacant this year. There's been some limited use. As you're aware, we moved big blue bargains into the portables.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:43 - 1:09:47)
There's been storage on the top floor.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:47 - 1:09:48)
When we did the massive move,

[Speaker 1] (1:09:49 - 1:09:59)
we took all of the best stuff that was not being repurposed and filled three of the classrooms and have actually utilized quite a bit of that stuff in the different.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:59 - 1:10:02)
different buildings through the course of the year.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:02 - 1:10:20)
Big Blue Bargains has also been using one of the classrooms to store some of their larger items for longer term that's been working out well for them and then the Recreation Department is using the building quite heavily on the first floor and outside this summer for their Park League program.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:22 - 1:10:29)
There's been a lot of discussion over the years as to what the next use of the Clark School would be for the school department.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:31 - 1:10:36)
At this time, talking with the leadership at the school, talking with the leadership internally on the town side.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:38 - 1:11:04)
consensus internally within the town and school is to retain control of the Clark school in the medium term for potential reuse by the school in maybe three to five years when we expect there to be movement with the middle school project and a potential need for swing space that's you know obviously a little bit far out there's a lot of things that need to happen but we saw with the

[Speaker 1] (1:11:04 - 1:11:17)
elementary school the how critical it was to have some swing space to be able to successfully implement that project and I think there's a likelihood that Clark could be a very useful building for us in the future

[Speaker 1] (1:11:19 - 1:11:22)
On the other side, you don't really want to see a building just sit,

[Speaker 1] (1:11:22 - 1:11:26)
and for the most part, it is predominantly sitting at this point, and that's not a good thing,

[Speaker 1] (1:11:26 - 1:11:40)
so we are recommending that we look to lease the building on a relatively short term, probably about a three-year lease. We've started to work on an RFP and get the ball rolling on that.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:42 - 1:11:45)
That would be something that would be done through this board,

[Speaker 1] (1:11:45 - 1:11:46)
at least of that building,

[Speaker 1] (1:11:46 - 1:11:48)
even though it's controlled by the school department,

[Speaker 1] (1:11:48 - 1:11:51)
but it would require the consent of the school committee.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:52 - 1:11:59)
The superintendent and I recently met with the school committee to fill them in on this situation and solicit some feedback.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:00 - 1:12:10)
So I think, you know, I look at myself here kind of presenting this concept and looking for feedback either tonight or moving forward or what you may like to see.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:10 - 1:12:19)
see in that RFP and you know we have the ability to control the uses and the intensity of the uses through that process yeah

[Speaker 3] (1:12:19 - 1:12:24)
Great. Can you just why why the select board when it's controlled by the school?

[Speaker 1] (1:12:25 - 1:12:27)
actually you know

[Speaker 1] (1:12:27 - 1:12:34)
check with town council to understand exactly what that process is, 'cause it was a little bit unclear.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:34 - 1:12:41)
Uh and because it is a um a lease of real property, uh that does need to be done through the select board.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:41 - 1:12:41)
Gotcha.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:43 - 1:12:47)
Uh any other questions for Max right now? I think we can certainly yeah?

[Speaker 4] (1:12:47 - 1:12:56)
No, just yeah, max, um so just a quick quick thought about an R_F_P_ is there a reason that we would do an R_F_P_ rather than an R_F_I_

[Speaker 4] (1:12:56 - 1:12:58)
In this instance,

[Speaker 4] (1:12:58 - 1:13:13)
I know for the Michon school for instance in 2017 or 2018 there was an RFI process and then we kind of got a number of ideas and thoughts from community members and businesses and affordable housing.

[Speaker 4] (1:13:14 - 1:13:18)
And then that kind of took us in a direction, so I'm just curious if that was consistent.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:18 - 1:13:38)
Sure. Yeah, I mean, an RFP is a formal procurement process and step that we would have to follow in order to lease real property. An RFI is sort of an optional tool that we have if we're looking to solicit feedback and ideas.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:38 - 1:13:41)
So that's how I look at the distinction.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:43 - 1:13:47)
Maybe we'll circle back to that after we hear from the Housing Authority in terms of that question.

[Speaker 4] (1:13:48 - 1:13:48)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:48 - 1:13:50)
Danielle, Marianne?

[Speaker 5] (1:13:50 - 1:14:01)
Yet the one question I have is is still as far as what about the needs of the community? I mean, I know last year Mr.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:01 - 1:14:07)
Fitzgerald brought up the fact that there's a possibility. What about if we use this for recreation?

[Speaker 5] (1:14:08 - 1:14:20)
And because you hear the Recreation Director was constantly saying how, you know, there's not enough space in town, and you also heard from the Senior Center Director there's not enough space in town, and

[Speaker 5] (1:14:21 - 1:14:42)
They're thinking about putting out an RFP to build a new community center. And I'm just wondering are we going to revisit that at all as far as using that as a community center or are we just going to let that forego and just then just possibly just rent it out, maybe another school district needs it or something like that. Just w where are we with with that conversation?

[Speaker 4] (1:14:43 - 1:14:53)
I mean, I know that that conversation last year sort of put a pause in any discussions of leasing the building because we really thought that

[Speaker 5] (1:14:53 - 1:14:53)
Right

[Speaker 4] (1:14:53 - 1:15:01)
the recreation and the senior center potentially was going to use it and, you know, for a variety of reasons,

[Speaker 4] (1:15:01 - 1:15:07)
that didn't come to fruition and that's kind of why we're back at this option.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:09 - 1:15:17)
Yeah, and just to be clear, I mean the reason we're having this discussion tonight is because the housing authority has asked to have this conversation for a little while,

[Speaker 4] (1:15:17 - 1:15:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:18 - 1:15:24)
and I think they have some thoughts about that need to be part of the mix. Um so Danielle, do you have any thoughts or

[Speaker 5] (1:15:24 - 1:15:24)
No,

[Speaker 3] (1:15:24 - 1:15:24)
questions

[Speaker 5] (1:15:24 - 1:15:24)
I'd like

[Speaker 3] (1:15:24 - 1:15:24)
before

[Speaker 5] (1:15:24 - 1:15:25)
to

[Speaker 3] (1:15:25 - 1:15:25)
we

[Speaker 5] (1:15:25 - 1:15:25)
hear from them,

[Speaker 3] (1:15:25 - 1:15:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (1:15:25 - 1:15:25)
really,

[Speaker 3] (1:15:25 - 1:15:26)
yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:15:26 - 1:15:27)
but that's all that I really wanted.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:28 - 1:15:29)
Mr.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:29 - 1:15:30)
Patsios.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:38 - 1:15:41)
I'm Charlie Patsios. I'm the chair of the Housing Authority.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:42 - 1:15:43)
Yes, Joe, is that is that on?

[Speaker 6] (1:15:47 - 1:15:50)
I'll start over. Charlie Patsios, the chair of the Housing Authority.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:51 - 1:15:54)
I'm also the governor's appointee to the Swampscot Housing Authority,

[Speaker 6] (1:15:54 - 1:16:01)
so I kind of have one position but two angles of looking at it.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:02 - 1:16:08)
This is the first time I think we've actually ever stepped in front of the town to have a conversation like this, at least in recent memory.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:09 - 1:16:11)
And I'm glad to be able to do it.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:12 - 1:16:14)
The Swampscott Housing Authority,

[Speaker 6] (1:16:14 - 1:16:15)
when I first came on,

[Speaker 6] (1:16:16 - 1:16:19)
and by the way we have an executive director,

[Speaker 6] (1:16:19 - 1:16:20)
Kevin Johnson,

[Speaker 6] (1:16:20 - 1:16:21)
who's here,

[Speaker 6] (1:16:21 - 1:16:22)
who has done a remarkable job.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:22 - 1:16:23)
I just want to thank Kevin publicly.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:26 - 1:16:39)
When we, when I stepped onto the board and I was a vice chair at the time, we were in a situation where the state comes in and grades the housing authority and they give us a score.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:39 - 1:16:45)
And that score is based on how well we do, how few violations or recommendations of area of improvement.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:45 - 1:16:49)
When we got on, we had 34 areas of recommendation for improvement.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:49 - 1:16:50)
We are down to four.

[Speaker 6] (1:16:51 - 1:17:00)
34 to 4. That's because the board is taking what we have to do in the recommendations of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts extremely seriously.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:01 - 1:17:05)
Our waiting list to get into the Swampscott Housing Authority,

[Speaker 6] (1:17:05 - 1:17:07)
and I'm not going to make a mistake,

[Speaker 6] (1:17:07 - 1:17:16)
is over 90,000 people on that list. It's a statewide list and Swampscott has a 90,000 plus. What's the real number Kevin?

[Speaker 6] (1:17:19 - 1:17:47)
89 90 000 we fluctuate so 90 000 is a safe number to say but if we said 89 i don't think that it would make that much of a difference the state also comes in and grades the locations of the four properties if you have a score of 15 or below you're doing well you have a score above 15 you need work and if you're you know if you're in the 30 and 40 range

[Speaker 6] (1:17:48 - 1:17:49)
You're in trouble.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:50 - 1:17:59)
Swamp Scott has one out of four at 13 and the others are in the 30s and 40s. In other words, we're not in good shape.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:59 - 1:18:01)
The state has recognized that.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:02 - 1:18:04)
At the state's recommendation,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:04 - 1:18:12)
the Swamp Scott Housing Authority has been asked to create a second agency.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:12 - 1:18:15)
So at Augustus' visit us, he was the Secretary of Housing,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:16 - 1:18:21)
and he visited us, and he looked at everything, and he said, you guys really need to do something.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:22 - 1:18:24)
You really need to do something now.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:25 - 1:18:26)
What can we do?

[Speaker 6] (1:18:27 - 1:18:31)
Well, the state recommended that we create a second agency,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:32 - 1:18:37)
a non-profit, a 501c3, helps us to be competitive with...

[Speaker 6] (1:18:37 - 1:18:48)
other entities like the B'nai B'rith of the world and folks like that and I mention them because we know them and so the Swampscott Affordable Housing Development Corporation has been created.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:48 - 1:18:50)
We now have two agencies.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:51 - 1:18:52)
One is the state agency,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:53 - 1:18:57)
Swampscott Housing Authority and a second agency. We're going to be seating the board soon.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:57 - 1:19:01)
We'll be coming to discuss that with you where we have been recognized by the state.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:01 - 1:19:05)
Our license and numbers have been issued. We are real.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:06 - 1:19:10)
So what we're here to discuss tonight is a vital importance to the town of Swampscott.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:11 - 1:19:20)
We know after three different housing studies that we've that we funded with the state's help they come back telling us the same thing.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:20 - 1:19:24)
We are woefully inadequate in the town of Swampscott with public housing.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:27 - 1:19:30)
Now we've got a couple of things that we've done.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:30 - 1:19:32)
They are not addressing the problem.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:32 - 1:19:34)
They are nowhere near addressing the problem,

[Speaker 1] (1:19:34 - 1:19:38)
especially when it comes to senior public housing,

[Speaker 1] (1:19:38 - 1:19:40)
which we need to do much with.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:40 - 1:19:48)
And our prime examples, Duncan and Doherty, are in deplorable condition according to the state.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:49 - 1:19:56)
What we have is an opportunity today where we've spent $170 million on education.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:57 - 1:20:00)
We spent zero on public housing.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:00 - 1:20:01)
Zero.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:02 - 1:20:03)
That is a tiny,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:03 - 1:20:06)
tiny and embarrassing amount of money.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:06 - 1:20:08)
A zero does not go a long way.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:09 - 1:20:11)
And when you don't have a roof over your head.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:12 - 1:20:14)
It becomes a real problem.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:14 - 1:20:15)
We want to do,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:15 - 1:20:16)
we talk about it in Swampscot.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:17 - 1:20:18)
We talk an awful lot about it.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:18 - 1:20:20)
What have we actually done about it?

[Speaker 1] (1:20:21 - 1:20:41)
Well, this board is in a unique position because historically the other boards in town have let public buildings sit for not months but years to the point of where they become in such bad shape that we tear them down and we sell them to developers for housing. So we've lost the Hadley.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:42 - 1:20:43)
We've lost them to Sean.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:43 - 1:20:47)
We've lost to Greenwood High School and middle school depending on when you want to talk about it.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:47 - 1:20:49)
And out of the three public buildings,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:49 - 1:20:51)
only one has become housing.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:53 - 1:20:53)
Only one.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:55 - 1:20:58)
So I sit here in front of you tonight and I'm saying,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:58 - 1:20:59)
please,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:59 - 1:21:04)
you're going to receive this building at some point. Is it going to be one month,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:04 - 1:21:05)
one year,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:05 - 1:21:06)
three years,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:06 - 1:21:06)
five years?

[Speaker 1] (1:21:07 - 1:21:08)
We don't know.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:08 - 1:21:09)
But the plant to hold a fair.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:10 - 1:21:14)
Swing space means we're going to be putting money into the middle school.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:14 - 1:21:19)
Please put some money into our housing, for our seniors,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:19 - 1:21:22)
and for people that desperately need that help.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:22 - 1:21:28)
And this board has the authority to do it once the property is turned over to you.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:29 - 1:21:32)
And I ask you that when you fund the school department,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:33 - 1:21:37)
and you fund it properly, and I'm an advocate for school education.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:38 - 1:21:43)
We do a great job, but at the same time, we can't neglect our seniors.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:43 - 1:21:52)
We can't neglect the Swampscott Housing Authority's position that we find ourselves in where the youngest building we have is 1961,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:52 - 1:21:55)
and we put nothing into it.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:56 - 1:21:58)
Handicapped accessibility is...

[Speaker 1] (1:21:59 - 1:22:08)
minimal and a few units and truly we've tried to adapt buildings that are not ADA compliant and do the best we can to make them ADA compliant.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:09 - 1:22:11)
So we're in a position to, guys,

[Speaker 1] (1:22:11 - 1:22:24)
am I doing okay? Anything that we want to... So what we're here tonight to ask your help in is to think about funding the schools appropriately at the same time.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:25 - 1:22:34)
To take the Clark School and to look at an RFP to rent it to another school district at a time when we're in crisis in Swampscott.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:35 - 1:22:39)
And by the way, when we look at the Clark School,

[Speaker 1] (1:22:40 - 1:22:42)
we're not looking at it selfishly even though we're desperate.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:43 - 1:22:52)
We're looking at it in a few different ways. We have enough space where we can relocate the senior center which is located in the high school.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:53 - 1:22:54)
over to this building.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:55 - 1:22:58)
That will free up several thousand square feet at the high school.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:58 - 1:23:00)
That might be your administrative offices.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:01 - 1:23:05)
That will give you additional space at the middle school for more classroom space.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:06 - 1:23:07)
We could take them in there.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:07 - 1:23:13)
We can also work with the school department and maybe some early education courses or classes.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:13 - 1:23:16)
We can designate an area of that. We can still work with Big Blue.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:17 - 1:23:20)
We're not saying that we want this for ourselves,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:20 - 1:23:22)
even though we desperately need it.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:23 - 1:23:29)
Please hear the voices of the people that so far haven't been heard.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:30 - 1:23:33)
We need your help. We can't do it alone.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:33 - 1:23:34)
What is the state willing to do?

[Speaker 1] (1:23:35 - 1:23:41)
The state has said to us that if the town of Swampscott were to own the school,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:41 - 1:23:45)
that it would come to our aid in giving us money,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:45 - 1:23:46)
reimbursement money,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:46 - 1:23:51)
in the upper end 70 to 80 percent reimbursement.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:52 - 1:23:54)
To be able to rebuild that school,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:55 - 1:23:58)
potentially add maybe a floor onto it or reconfigure it,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:58 - 1:24:11)
those are, I won't even say a vision, I'll say a dream right now because we can't start to live our reality until this board provides us the opportunity to go to work.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:11 - 1:24:12)
We have two agencies,

[Speaker 1] (1:24:12 - 1:24:16)
the Swamp Scott Housing Authority and the Swamp Scott Housing Development Corporation.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:17 - 1:24:18)
We are ready.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:19 - 1:24:20)
The state says we're ready.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:21 - 1:24:23)
Our needs have not diminished, they've grown.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:24 - 1:24:27)
I ask you, if not now, when?

[Speaker 1] (1:24:28 - 1:24:30)
This is vitally important,

[Speaker 1] (1:24:30 - 1:24:32)
and we can do it with this board,

[Speaker 1] (1:24:32 - 1:24:34)
because this board has not let a building sit.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:35 - 1:24:39)
This board has the opportunity to make a difference.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:39 - 1:24:42)
Your names can go on that.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:42 - 1:24:48)
as caring for the people that need the most and have the least offered to them.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:49 - 1:24:53)
I don't think that there's another chance like this.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:53 - 1:24:55)
It's centrally located.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:55 - 1:24:57)
There's a bus route nearby.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:57 - 1:24:59)
There's open space outdoors.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:59 - 1:25:01)
We're willing to work with the school department,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:01 - 1:25:04)
Big Blue Bargains, the senior center.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:04 - 1:25:06)
If there's something else that we missed,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:06 - 1:25:07)
let us know.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:08 - 1:25:09)
The swamp's got the...

[Speaker 1] (1:25:11 - 1:25:13)
Jim Epstein's Affordable

[Speaker 2] (1:25:13 - 1:25:14)
Affordable Housing.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:14 - 1:25:21)
Affordable Housing Trust is in a unique position. It is loaded with you want to talk about smart people?

[Speaker 1] (1:25:21 - 1:25:23)
They know what we need.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:23 - 1:25:26)
We're very fortunate also our newest member,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:26 - 1:25:27)
Eb Nutter here,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:27 - 1:25:28)
who ran the Caleb Foundation.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:30 - 1:25:32)
We are ready. We are ready.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:32 - 1:25:33)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:33 - 1:25:38)
we are prepared because we possess the expertise,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:38 - 1:25:41)
the knowledge, and the willingness of the state to help us.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:41 - 1:25:43)
The governor has said so herself.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:44 - 1:25:45)
So I ask you,

[Speaker 1] (1:25:45 - 1:25:50)
I understand that the school is looking at its needs.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:50 - 1:25:53)
We need places for people to live.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:57 - 1:26:01)
Maybe there's an accommodation that in three years or five years when you need that swing space,

[Speaker 1] (1:26:01 - 1:26:13)
it would have been cheaper to at that time go for some modular space like the town of Watertown did when it tore down its high school and the entire high school was in a modular setting.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:13 - 1:26:22)
I know because I grew up in Watertown and I know what happens there. My mom and dad tell me all the time. But Swamp Scott.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:24 - 1:26:25)
has an opportunity.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:26 - 1:26:31)
And I think that the select board controls aspects of the school budget.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:32 - 1:26:37)
And I encourage you to fund it as generously as possible.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:37 - 1:26:39)
But please, in that process,

[Speaker 1] (1:26:39 - 1:26:41)
don't forget about us.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:42 - 1:26:44)
We have sat by,

[Speaker 1] (1:26:44 - 1:26:49)
the seniors have voted for the high school when it was built. It wouldn't have passed without the senior vote.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:51 - 1:26:52)
That's why the senior center is there,

[Speaker 1] (1:26:52 - 1:26:55)
I believe, that though that might not be official.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:56 - 1:27:00)
We are now coming to you as seniors and we're saying to you,

[Speaker 1] (1:27:00 - 1:27:09)
help us or allow us to help ourselves with the cooperation of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Is there anything,

[Speaker 1] (1:27:09 - 1:27:09)
anybody?

[Speaker 1] (1:27:13 - 1:27:20)
So, if there's any questions that you have for me, I'd be happy to answer them or from anybody else,

[Speaker 1] (1:27:20 - 1:27:23)
but now's the time.

[Speaker 1] (1:27:24 - 1:27:25)
Sure, David.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:25 - 1:27:26)
Yeah, Mr.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:26 - 1:27:27)
Patios, so thank you

[Speaker 4] (1:27:27 - 1:27:27)
David,

[Speaker 3] (1:27:27 - 1:27:27)
for...

[Speaker 4] (1:27:27 - 1:27:28)
go ahead.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:28 - 1:27:29)
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:30 - 1:27:30)
Thank you, Doug.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:31 - 1:27:42)
So Charlie, thank you for, you know, for having this having this joint meeting with us, and really bringing this to our attention, you know, housing is is is certainly important. We are in crisis.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:44 - 1:27:50)
One of the questions that I've had and we've had conversations for the last year, year and a half,

[Speaker 3] (1:27:50 - 1:27:53)
really about a feasibility study,

[Speaker 3] (1:27:53 - 1:27:56)
about a redevelopment of the Swamp Scout Housing Authority.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:56 - 1:28:03)
So I know you had mentioned that you had at Augustus, that had come to visit you.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:03 - 1:28:06)
I know you've had conversations with people from the state.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:06 - 1:28:11)
Can you give us an update as to where that stands from a feasibility study perspective?

[Speaker 1] (1:28:11 - 1:28:12)
Sure

[Speaker 3] (1:28:12 - 1:28:12)
It's

[Speaker 1] (1:28:12 - 1:28:12)
Sure.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:12 - 1:28:15)
it's my understanding that you need that before anything else can

[Speaker 1] (1:28:15 - 1:28:15)
Sure.

[Speaker 3] (1:28:15 - 1:28:15)
be can be

[Speaker 1] (1:28:15 - 1:28:16)
So we

[Speaker 3] (1:28:16 - 1:28:16)
approved

[Speaker 1] (1:28:16 - 1:28:21)
put in for that. The state has acknowledged that we need to do that and they're providing that assistance.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:22 - 1:28:29)
When we had originally gone to them and put in our application for their matching funding,

[Speaker 1] (1:28:29 - 1:28:29)
if you will,

[Speaker 1] (1:28:29 - 1:28:33)
at that time we had $50,000 that had been allocated to us by the select board.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:35 - 1:28:46)
The only way the state agencies that can operate is we have to follow the procedure that the state has us follow. And so when they looked at that, did you want to?

[Speaker 5] (1:28:47 - 1:28:48)
I was going to add into that.

[Speaker 5] (1:28:49 - 1:28:57)
So that study was for the lowest garage property, which we were looking into. I mean actually me and Charlie had a meeting for that property, remember?

[Speaker 1] (1:28:57 - 1:28:58)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:28:58 - 1:28:58)
What did we

[Speaker 13] (1:28:58 - 1:28:59)
talk about?

[Speaker 1] (1:28:59 - 1:29:03)
So the state said because the property is not owned by the town of Swampscott,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:03 - 1:29:07)
it cannot provide us any funding in construction.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:08 - 1:29:11)
The property must be owned by the town of Swampscott,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:11 - 1:29:15)
and if the town owns it and allows the housing authority to come in,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:15 - 1:29:19)
it will fund us at a level that they will determine.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:39 - 1:29:40)
now the money's available

[Speaker 1] (1:29:41 - 1:29:48)
The property isn't. So all I can tell you is there's something here,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:48 - 1:29:49)
but there's nothing here.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:49 - 1:29:56)
There's nothing until the school department does what it needs to. When the school department needs help,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:56 - 1:29:56)
where does it go to?

[Speaker 1] (1:29:56 - 1:29:58)
It goes to all of us.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:00 - 1:30:04)
I am stepping into that role and saying we need help.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:04 - 1:30:06)
We've never asked for it before.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:06 - 1:30:07)
We desperately need it.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:13 - 1:30:17)
These are all the prices that we pay for vouchers throughout the whole state.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:18 - 1:30:18)
Speak.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:18 - 1:30:32)
I'm going to speak in the microphone. So throughout the whole state. Now if you look at it, splices and you look at it, Swampscott has the highest percentage of anywhere on the North Shore they pay in vouchers.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:33 - 1:30:37)
That's how bad the housing crisis is in Swampscott.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:38 - 1:30:40)
You don't have enough affordable stock.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:41 - 1:30:52)
Now you're going to have the Westcott coming online. There's a few other projects and that's going to bring it down. But it's not going to be at the percentage that the state really wants, which is I think like eight percent if I remember right.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:52 - 1:30:53)
Ten percent,

[Speaker 2] (1:30:53 - 1:30:53)
Ten percent,

[Speaker 1] (1:30:53 - 1:30:54)
yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:54 - 1:31:09)
yeah. Um, you know, right now the average for a voucher, and this isn't a a HUD voucher, this is the state voucher, which is a little bit different. It's uh twenty eight hundred a month that we would pay someone to live in an apartment.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:10 - 1:31:29)
it's one stop. You go over to Nahant, it's twenty three hundred. You go over to Marblehead, it's twenty four hundred. You go over to Lynn, twenty three hundred. So that just see shows you kind of a level of problems that there are in the community with the with the affordable housing stock that's available.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:29 - 1:31:30)
Right now.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:30 - 1:31:35)
Kevin, I don't know about others. I didn't quite follow that. Like why, I get that ours is higher, but what it

[Speaker 2] (1:31:35 - 1:31:36)
So it

[Speaker 1] (1:31:36 - 1:31:36)
who who's

[Speaker 2] (1:31:36 - 1:31:36)
it's based

[Speaker 1] (1:31:36 - 1:31:37)
paying that to who and why does that

[Speaker 2] (1:31:37 - 1:31:41)
it's based off of how much housing stock is available.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:41 - 1:31:41)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:41 - 1:31:45)
Um either market rate or whatever, doesn't matter.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:46 - 1:31:48)
That's what they base those voucher prices off.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:48 - 1:31:51)
Right, Kevin. I think if you just want

[Speaker 4] (1:31:51 - 1:31:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:51 - 1:31:52)
to work it

[Speaker 2] (1:31:58 - 1:32:21)
Well, no no, this is okay, these are M_R_V_P_ vouchers. So there's different types of vouchers that the state has. Uh there's section eight vouchers, there's uh which is run by the federal government, that's a s set price for the Boston community. So what Massachusetts has done with its voucher programme has set different pricings for different towns based off of zip code.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:22 - 1:32:26)
A and if you look at it, uh Swampscot has one of the highest percentages.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:27 - 1:32:38)
that a housing authority that has these vouchers, M_R_V_P_ which we have a few, we do have a few vouchers that are in Swampscott uh that will actually pay.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:38 - 1:32:39)
So

[Speaker 5] (1:32:39 - 1:32:39)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:32:39 - 1:32:41)
So just how can I get the situation there?

[Speaker 5] (1:32:41 - 1:32:51)
Yeah, I get it. Uh can you go ba I charlie I know you've we've had you know a conversation uh about this a little bit before and it feels like in some ways with what you just said here

[Speaker 5] (1:32:53 - 1:32:58)
I'm not sure if you tied everything together the way I understood it before.

[Speaker 5] (1:32:58 - 1:33:03)
Maybe you've thought things through differently, but just to state it back to you from understanding,

[Speaker 5] (1:33:03 - 1:33:12)
your hope is that the schools would release the Clark School to the town.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:13 - 1:33:15)
That's fundamental to...

[Speaker 5] (1:33:16 - 1:33:18)
Getting the state to engage,

[Speaker 5] (1:33:18 - 1:33:22)
because the town has to own the land,

[Speaker 5] (1:33:22 - 1:33:26)
unlike Lally's, unlike the school district. The town has to own this,

[Speaker 5] (1:33:26 - 1:33:33)
has to have possession in order to get that very rich backing,

[Speaker 5] (1:33:33 - 1:33:41)
70 to 80 percent, whatever it is, based on the condition of the housing. You're hoping to use the Clark School.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:41 - 1:33:58)
potentially to move the senior center there that's maybe an added bonus 'cause you're thinking this would be senior housing, senior public housing or public housing in general. Okay, could lay out this scheme here and then hows that relate to the conditions of the buildings that we have is this kind of

[Speaker 1] (1:33:58 - 1:33:59)
So they're

[Speaker 5] (1:33:59 - 1:33:59)
idea

[Speaker 1] (1:33:59 - 1:34:01)
all they're all connected, but they're independent of each other at

[Speaker 5] (1:34:01 - 1:34:01)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:01 - 1:34:02)
the same time.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:02 - 1:34:05)
So when it comes to your reimbursement rates,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:05 - 1:34:06)
the worse your score,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:07 - 1:34:07)
the more you're funding.

[Speaker 5] (1:34:07 - 1:34:08)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:09 - 1:34:12)
When it comes to, what was your other question?

[Speaker 1] (1:34:12 - 1:34:12)
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 5] (1:34:12 - 1:34:16)
The first, first of all, are you talking about this being senior housing or

[Speaker 1] (1:34:16 - 1:34:17)
So there's

[Speaker 5] (1:34:17 - 1:34:17)
is it

[Speaker 1] (1:34:17 - 1:34:17)
a lot,

[Speaker 5] (1:34:17 - 1:34:18)
public housing

[Speaker 1] (1:34:18 - 1:34:18)
what was that?

[Speaker 5] (1:34:18 - 1:34:19)
in general?

[Speaker 1] (1:34:19 - 1:34:20)
So it's housing in general.

[Speaker 5] (1:34:20 - 1:34:20)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:20 - 1:34:21)
Are we, you know, specifically?

[Speaker 1] (1:34:24 - 1:34:27)
specifically exactly the type of housing to be determined.

[Speaker 5] (1:34:27 - 1:34:28)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:28 - 1:34:47)
But there there's one other thing that I wanted to mention to you. Out of the fifty states in the United States, forty seven of them are on federal housing. Three of them are still on state housing. Obviously, Massachusetts is one of those three states. Our reimbursement rate by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts on average is what, six?

[Speaker 2] (1:34:47 - 1:34:49)
It's about three hundred dollars a month.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:50 - 1:34:51)
Per unit.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:52 - 1:34:54)
Whereas if we're on the HUD system,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:54 - 1:34:59)
we're over $2,000 a unit per month on reimbursement from the federal government.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:59 - 1:35:00)
Why are we,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:00 - 1:35:02)
can we go on the federal system? Yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:02 - 1:35:09)
But we have to meet the minimum standards of the federal system in order to qualify to do that.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:09 - 1:35:12)
So if the Clark School were to be developed,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:12 - 1:35:14)
we would be reimbursed on a federal level,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:14 - 1:35:16)
not on a state level,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:16 - 1:35:17)
because we meet that criteria.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:18 - 1:35:20)
the quality and the conditions of the building.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:20 - 1:35:23)
Can you have the next question I came up with,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:23 - 1:35:27)
well can we still be on the state system for some of our properties and on one or the other?

[Speaker 1] (1:35:27 - 1:35:28)
The answer is yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:29 - 1:35:33)
So we can transition off the state onto HUD,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:33 - 1:35:40)
onto the federal system for a much higher reimbursement rate which allows us to maintain our buildings and to grow our housing stock.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:40 - 1:35:43)
Our goal at the Housing Authority,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:43 - 1:35:45)
or more importantly the Swampscott Housing Development Corporation,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:45 - 1:35:47)
is Swampscott.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:47 - 1:35:49)
There are no other communities we're interested in.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:49 - 1:35:52)
We're interested in doing the best job for us here.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:52 - 1:35:58)
Now, does that mean that we act in isolation and that it's only public housing with nothing else?

[Speaker 1] (1:35:58 - 1:35:59)
No,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:59 - 1:36:01)
we can create a blend of that,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:02 - 1:36:09)
but not wanting to get too far ahead of myself and wanting to keep the focus on our next one or two steps.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:10 - 1:36:13)
We can't do anything unless the town of Swampscott,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:13 - 1:36:14)
the Select Board,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:14 - 1:36:16)
has control of that property,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:16 - 1:36:21)
at which point we go to the state with our housing study and everything else that they want us to do,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:21 - 1:36:25)
and we ask the procedure they want us to follow,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:25 - 1:36:27)
because each situation is unique.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:29 - 1:36:36)
So let me be clear. So you're asking, so the first step we need to do is the select board needs to talk to the school committee,

[Speaker 3] (1:36:36 - 1:36:37)
right,

[Speaker 3] (1:36:37 - 1:36:41)
or the school department to see if they will release Clark back to us.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:41 - 1:36:41)
Is that what you're

[Speaker 1] (1:36:41 - 1:36:41)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:41 - 1:36:42)
asking?

[Speaker 3] (1:36:42 - 1:36:46)
Okay, and then at that point we have to then have a discussion,

[Speaker 3] (1:36:46 - 1:36:48)
a community-wide discussion probably,

[Speaker 3] (1:36:48 - 1:36:52)
to allocate that particular building for housing,

[Speaker 3] (1:36:52 - 1:36:53)
right?

[Speaker 1] (1:36:53 - 1:36:53)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:53 - 1:36:56)
So these, I'm just trying to understand what you ask is, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:36:57 - 1:36:57)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:57 - 1:36:59)
And while that's happening,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:59 - 1:37:08)
it doesn't mean it's going to happen in one year or in sixteen months or in eighteen months. It might happen, it might take us thirty six months. I don't know how long the process is. We've never done it before.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:09 - 1:37:19)
Does that mean that while we have possession of the building because it be given to us and we'll say no high school, no middle school, no elementary school, you can't use the building. We never say that.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:20 - 1:37:23)
We are in cooperation. We want to come here and w

[Speaker 1] (1:37:24 - 1:37:26)
We're not interested in acting alone.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:27 - 1:37:29)
We're interested in having all hands on deck.

[Speaker 6] (1:37:30 - 1:37:30)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:30 - 1:37:33)
We want this to be a true effort of the town of Swampscott.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:34 - 1:37:36)
I believe that in

[Speaker 1] (1:37:38 - 1:37:42)
town meeting when we all get together there isn't a single person that doesn't want the greater good of the community.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:43 - 1:37:46)
But at that very moment we're voting on individual warrant articles.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:47 - 1:37:53)
There are people that want it and people that don't want it. And if you want a different article and the money's not there, you want that article to fail.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:54 - 1:37:59)
It's as simple as that. This is the one time where we need to act unified.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:59 - 1:38:01)
We need to look at this and say,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:01 - 1:38:06)
our seniors need housing. They need to be able to afford the housing.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:07 - 1:38:10)
If we're being reimbursed by the federal government,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:10 - 1:38:11)
which is the plan for the clerk,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:11 - 1:38:12)
my plan for the clerk,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:13 - 1:38:14)
our plan for the clerk,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:14 - 1:38:19)
that will free up housing that other people are living in right now that they're hanging on to.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:21 - 1:38:26)
Because not all the housing will be at public housing rates.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:26 - 1:38:27)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:27 - 1:38:30)
We can start to mix in housing,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:30 - 1:38:32)
which is what the plan has always been,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:32 - 1:38:34)
which is what the Westcott is and others are.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:34 - 1:38:36)
We are not acting alone.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:39 - 1:38:54)
So normally for like a boots on the ground planning, doing all the studies, doing all the infrastructure, uh getting everyone together usually takes about four years for we actually put the shovel to the ground for more state state projects

[Speaker 3] (1:38:54 - 1:38:54)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:54 - 1:39:04)
of this scale. So you know obviously the school could be used for middle school, it could be leased out, it could be done for a myriad of different things. It's gonna take a while before we

[Speaker 3] (1:39:05 - 1:39:07)
So so my next question is

[Speaker 3] (1:39:07 - 1:39:14)
Not to put you on the hot seat Max, you're aware of this, does the school have a response to that or are they at all through you?

[Speaker 2] (1:39:18 - 1:39:21)
I don't think I don't think they are.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:21 - 1:39:22)
I don't think that.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:22 - 1:39:28)
position is that the schools want to maintain control of that building or their position through you

[Speaker 2] (1:39:28 - 1:39:28)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:39:28 - 1:39:28)
with you

[Speaker 2] (1:39:28 - 1:39:31)
as of right now, I don't think that the most people.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:31 - 1:39:34)
and the leadership in the school department are are aware

[Speaker 1] (1:39:34 - 1:39:34)
Even

[Speaker 2] (1:39:34 - 1:39:35)
of of

[Speaker 1] (1:39:35 - 1:39:35)
further

[Speaker 2] (1:39:35 - 1:39:35)
this.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:35 - 1:39:36)
to this okay,

[Speaker 2] (1:39:36 - 1:39:36)
Yeah. So I think

[Speaker 1] (1:39:36 - 1:39:46)
so it sounds like there needs to be a lot of conversation that hasn't happened yet right to at least begin having you know an exchange of ideas to figure out where everybody is on

[Speaker 2] (1:39:46 - 1:39:46)
That's

[Speaker 1] (1:39:46 - 1:39:46)
the thing

[Speaker 2] (1:39:46 - 1:39:47)
the point of this tonight,

[Speaker 1] (1:39:47 - 1:39:48)
Right

[Speaker 2] (1:39:48 - 1:39:49)
to kick that off exactly.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:49 - 1:39:50)
So how do we do that question?

[Speaker 2] (1:39:50 - 1:39:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:50 - 1:39:52)
I have a quick I have a quick question.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:52 - 1:39:52)
Yeah, please.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:52 - 1:40:00)
Actually, it might be for you. W Well first let me just ask how many units are there at Duncan Terrace and how many units are there at Dougherty Circle?

[Speaker 3] (1:40:06 - 1:40:07)
Forty-two.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:08 - 1:40:19)
So I think maybe you can answer. If we are building new units, if we're getting affordable housing in different properties like, like we're gonna have in

[Speaker 2] (1:40:19 - 1:40:19)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:19 - 1:40:22)
Vinings Square, how many are we getting sixteen units over there?

[Speaker 2] (1:40:22 - 1:40:23)
Yeah, I think so.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:23 - 1:40:32)
Are we is are we able to uh move move people over from Dunkin into affordable units over there?

[Speaker 3] (1:40:34 - 1:40:36)
Does that cross at

[Speaker 4] (1:40:36 - 1:40:37)
all? Mary Ellen,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:37 - 1:40:37)
I did.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:37 - 1:40:37)
Public

[Speaker 4] (1:40:37 - 1:40:37)
Mary

[Speaker 2] (1:40:37 - 1:40:38)
Housing versus it's

[Speaker 4] (1:40:38 - 1:40:39)
Ellen,

[Speaker 3] (1:40:39 - 1:40:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:39 - 1:40:52)
I think it's gonna depend on their financing, 'cause if if they've got tax credits at all involved, then you have to sign a one year lease and you have to move permanently. But if it's not and there's no t like

[Speaker 4] (1:40:53 - 1:40:56)
I can look at their financing if you want and give

[Speaker 3] (1:40:56 - 1:40:56)
So

[Speaker 4] (1:40:56 - 1:40:56)
you

[Speaker 3] (1:40:56 - 1:41:00)
the reason I'm asking this question is I'm just wondering if we have a number of different

[Speaker 3] (1:41:01 - 1:41:02)
structures at

[Speaker 4] (1:41:02 - 1:41:02)
Mm hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:02 - 1:41:07)
Duncan Terrace for example and we're able to move say

[Speaker 4] (1:41:07 - 1:41:07)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:07 - 1:41:12)
16 units 16 people into another facility and then

[Speaker 4] (1:41:12 - 1:41:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:12 - 1:41:16)
rebuild rebuild over onto that property is

[Speaker 4] (1:41:16 - 1:41:16)
Do

[Speaker 3] (1:41:16 - 1:41:16)
that that

[Speaker 4] (1:41:16 - 1:41:16)
the rep.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:16 - 1:41:17)
might sound really crazy

[Speaker 4] (1:41:17 - 1:41:17)
No,

[Speaker 3] (1:41:17 - 1:41:17)
but

[Speaker 4] (1:41:17 - 1:41:18)
but it,

[Speaker 2] (1:41:18 - 1:41:18)
No,

[Speaker 3] (1:41:18 - 1:41:18)
oh

[Speaker 2] (1:41:18 - 1:41:18)
no, it's not.

[Speaker 4] (1:41:18 - 1:41:21)
that's what we've done. I've done my whole life.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:21 - 1:41:21)
oh

[Speaker 4] (1:41:21 - 1:41:21)
So

[Speaker 3] (1:41:21 - 1:41:21)
okay

[Speaker 4] (1:41:21 - 1:41:23)
you, yes,

[Speaker 4] (1:41:23 - 1:41:24)
that's absolutely doable.

[Speaker 4] (1:41:29 - 1:41:32)
Well, we gotta, we've gotta work it all out,

[Speaker 5] (1:41:32 - 1:41:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:41:32 - 1:41:34)
but she's just trying to help us come up with

[Speaker 3] (1:41:34 - 1:41:34)
this I'm

[Speaker 4] (1:41:34 - 1:41:34)
list.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:34 - 1:41:36)
just trying to think outside the box

[Speaker 4] (1:41:36 - 1:41:36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:36 - 1:41:38)
uh if we can get if

[Speaker 4] (1:41:38 - 1:41:38)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:38 - 1:41:51)
we because we do have new housing coming on board. We also have Pine Street. Any you know if you have any veterans in housing over there can we also have veterans applying for Pine Street and

[Speaker 5] (1:41:51 - 1:41:52)
We could,

[Speaker 5] (1:41:52 - 1:41:53)
but at the end of the day,

[Speaker 5] (1:41:53 - 1:41:55)
all we're doing is we're taking out someone from a building.

[Speaker 5] (1:41:56 - 1:42:01)
We're repairing, rebuilding that same unit and we're putting that so the unit count

[Speaker 1] (1:42:01 - 1:42:02)
So we're not increasing any,

[Speaker 5] (1:42:02 - 1:42:03)
We're not

[Speaker 1] (1:42:03 - 1:42:03)
right?

[Speaker 5] (1:42:03 - 1:42:03)
increasing,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:03 - 1:42:03)
We're just like

[Speaker 3] (1:42:03 - 1:42:04)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:04 - 1:42:04)
we're not increasing.

[Speaker 3] (1:42:04 - 1:42:05)
Well, but if

[Speaker 1] (1:42:05 - 1:42:06)
Renovating.

[Speaker 3] (1:42:06 - 1:42:09)
you take down the building and you put up, you know,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:09 - 1:42:09)
A

[Speaker 3] (1:42:09 - 1:42:09)
three

[Speaker 1] (1:42:09 - 1:42:10)
bigger building.

[Speaker 3] (1:42:10 - 1:42:11)
story instead of a two story.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:11 - 1:42:13)
And so you're right.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:13 - 1:42:17)
And then the discussion has always been from the tenant side,

[Speaker 5] (1:42:17 - 1:42:21)
which is a fear factor and I can understand it. Here's what that is.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:22 - 1:42:31)
You're telling me I have to move out of my house, I don't know where I'm gonna live, and then you're telling me I can come back. Where have I heard this before?

[Speaker 1] (1:42:32 - 1:42:32)
Right, right.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:32 - 1:42:38)
And how and how much can I believe and when's it gonna be done and where are you gonna move me to? The answer is we don't know.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:39 - 1:42:41)
Now, I agree with you, Mary Ellen,

[Speaker 5] (1:42:42 - 1:42:48)
100% that there can be a way to do this. And if we're only looking at replacing the existing building,

[Speaker 5] (1:42:48 - 1:42:51)
and maybe greater density, maybe taller buildings,

[Speaker 5] (1:42:51 - 1:42:57)
the town owns a small playground that's outside Duncan.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:58 - 1:43:01)
And could we put the first building at Duncan?

[Speaker 5] (1:43:02 - 1:43:03)
a four-story building,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:03 - 1:43:05)
parking underneath it, an elevator,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:05 - 1:43:09)
we could take the next three buildings down. Yes, we can do that.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:10 - 1:43:13)
But it's a far more complex process.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:13 - 1:43:15)
At the same time,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:15 - 1:43:16)
at the end of the day,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:16 - 1:43:21)
let's pretend that three years have gone by or five years have gone by,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:21 - 1:43:23)
the school has rebuilt the middle school,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:23 - 1:43:25)
they got it done real cheap,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:25 - 1:43:26)
they're out,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:26 - 1:43:27)
they're done,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:27 - 1:43:29)
everybody's happy. What happens to the clock?

[Speaker 5] (1:43:31 - 1:43:32)
Did they keep it?

[Speaker 5] (1:43:33 - 1:43:37)
So if this isn't something that's going to happen in a year,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:37 - 1:43:39)
it's going to happen in five years.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:39 - 1:43:41)
The discussion is literally the same.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:41 - 1:43:45)
What does the town want to happen with that property?

[Speaker 5] (1:43:45 - 1:43:50)
Now you've got the playground and you've got that other space. There's a playground and then there's the school property.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:50 - 1:43:54)
And they're indistinguishable unless you look at a fence line.

[Speaker 5] (1:43:54 - 1:43:56)
I think that there could be a bigger playground,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:56 - 1:43:58)
there could be more open space,

[Speaker 5] (1:43:58 - 1:44:01)
there could be a blend of a lot of things that are going on there.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:01 - 1:44:07)
That existing building is a very well built structure that's in decent condition structurally.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:08 - 1:44:09)
and has a wooden roof.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:09 - 1:44:15)
That wooden roof has to be replaced every so many years. Rather than replacing an A-frame roof,

[Speaker 5] (1:44:15 - 1:44:17)
you go up two stories and now you have a flat roof.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:18 - 1:44:25)
Literally, the existing height of the building I would almost not change and be able to add a floor with a flat roof.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:26 - 1:44:26)
So,

[Speaker 6] (1:44:26 - 1:44:30)
And it's a lot of detail, obviously, or it's the way down the road, but I think the...

[Speaker 6] (1:44:32 - 1:44:33)
If I understand correctly,

[Speaker 6] (1:44:33 - 1:44:41)
one of the most critical distinctions between trying to kind of rework the housing on the sites that you have right now,

[Speaker 6] (1:44:41 - 1:44:43)
which are not town owned,

[Speaker 6] (1:44:43 - 1:44:45)
versus the Clark School,

[Speaker 6] (1:44:45 - 1:44:53)
which would be town owned, is the funding, amount of funding that's possible by using that approach.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:54 - 1:44:56)
Let me make one correction to what you said.

[Speaker 6] (1:44:56 - 1:44:56)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:56 - 1:44:58)
The town does own the property

[Speaker 1] (1:44:58 - 1:44:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:44:58 - 1:45:00)
that the school,

[Speaker 5] (1:45:00 - 1:45:01)
that the public housing is on.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:02 - 1:45:02)
So

[Speaker 5] (1:45:02 - 1:45:06)
It's under the state's control, but it's Swampscott property.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:06 - 1:45:06)
Okay,

[Speaker 6] (1:45:06 - 1:45:12)
so the additional funding that you talked about, the 70, 80% or whatever based on the condition of the building,

[Speaker 6] (1:45:12 - 1:45:16)
is that available to us if you rework the buildings on the current site,

[Speaker 6] (1:45:16 - 1:45:19)
or is that uniquely available if you use the Clark School?

[Speaker 5] (1:45:20 - 1:45:22)
I know it's available for the Clark.

[Speaker 5] (1:45:22 - 1:45:28)
I'm going to say without certainty that it's probably available for redevelopment of that.

[Speaker 5] (1:45:29 - 1:45:46)
But the cost of redoing the the Clark School and the way that that building's laid out is perfect for housing and it can be enlarged or added on to structurally vertically by going up another floor.

[Speaker 5] (1:45:47 - 1:45:49)
It has that wing that's out the front.

[Speaker 5] (1:45:49 - 1:45:52)
Is that your senior center? Is

[Speaker 5] (1:45:52 - 1:45:54)
Maybe we create two floors there.

[Speaker 5] (1:45:55 - 1:45:57)
All I'm trying to tell you is when I look at this site,

[Speaker 5] (1:45:57 - 1:45:59)
there isn't one possibility.

[Speaker 5] (1:45:59 - 1:46:01)
There are several possibilities.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:01 - 1:46:05)
It allows space to be created. Why is this so important?

[Speaker 5] (1:46:05 - 1:46:15)
Because it allows us to move the senior center out of the current high school and allow that space to be used by either the administration is now in the middle school.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:15 - 1:46:19)
We know that that building is way too tight. If you gave it, I think it's in.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:21 - 1:46:25)
At eight rooms, eight classrooms that offices are in approximately,

[Speaker 5] (1:46:26 - 1:46:32)
the first floor to the left that you walk by as you're going into the front doors,

[Speaker 5] (1:46:32 - 1:46:35)
that's all administrative space, or at least I remember it that way.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:35 - 1:46:38)
So all that cannot be returned to the school.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:38 - 1:46:43)
We can take that senior center and put it inside the Clark.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:43 - 1:46:48)
Now it's servicing the people that are actually right there. Rather than having to bring them to them, they're right there.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:48 - 1:46:50)
Efficiency is great.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:50 - 1:46:53)
Transportation costs go down. It's a much more efficient process.

[Speaker 5] (1:46:54 - 1:46:57)
And the other thing that we do,

[Speaker 5] (1:46:57 - 1:47:03)
and I can't speak to this because I don't know if we're rehabbing or we're tearing down a building new,

[Speaker 5] (1:47:03 - 1:47:07)
but we can be funded by the federal government, by HUD,

[Speaker 5] (1:47:08 - 1:47:10)
at a much higher rate.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:10 - 1:47:12)
than what the state's reimbursing us at,

[Speaker 5] (1:47:12 - 1:47:14)
a much higher rate.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:14 - 1:47:17)
And so if we build there,

[Speaker 5] (1:47:17 - 1:47:19)
the outcomes are predictable.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:20 - 1:47:27)
I don't know enough about tearing down or rebuilding at Duncan or at Dougherty. It's possible,

[Speaker 5] (1:47:27 - 1:47:34)
but the discussion needs to happen outside the confines of our meeting

[Speaker 5] (1:47:36 - 1:47:38)
room at the Housing Authority.

[Speaker 5] (1:47:38 - 1:47:39)
It needs to be at the town level.

[Speaker 6] (1:47:40 - 1:47:42)
Well, Charlie, thank you and Housing Authority,

[Speaker 6] (1:47:43 - 1:47:44)
I'm not cutting this off,

[Speaker 6] (1:47:44 - 1:47:48)
but I mean, thank you very much for raising this possibility.

[Speaker 6] (1:47:48 - 1:47:49)
Very intriguing,

[Speaker 6] (1:47:49 - 1:47:51)
a little complicated, obviously.

[Speaker 6] (1:47:52 - 1:47:57)
And I think, you know, I think as Mary Ellen said to begin with,

[Speaker 6] (1:47:57 - 1:48:00)
you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of possibilities for the clerk.

[Speaker 6] (1:48:00 - 1:48:01)
You know, this I think.

[Speaker 6] (1:48:02 - 1:48:06)
This discussion for me at least puts this amongst the possibilities.

[Speaker 6] (1:48:07 - 1:48:17)
And I think it is really critical to understand the financing piece and how unique it is to be able to use the Clark versus existing locations that you have.

[Speaker 6] (1:48:17 - 1:48:19)
So that's part of the discussion.

[Speaker 5] (1:48:21 - 1:48:25)
I don't need to speak to you about this. You know it better than maybe anybody else.

[Speaker 5] (1:48:25 - 1:48:29)
CPA is in line to help us here.

[Speaker 5] (1:48:30 - 1:48:31)
To create housing.

[Speaker 6] (1:48:32 - 1:48:38)
Yeah, and there's probably 27 things that probably want the CPA's money. It doesn't even have a drop, a dime yet, but um...

[Speaker 5] (1:48:38 - 1:48:40)
Yes, all true,

[Speaker 5] (1:48:40 - 1:48:47)
but to be prepared to act when the moment is right has eluded us in this town for many years.

[Speaker 5] (1:48:47 - 1:48:53)
And I'll just go back and just take the band-aid off and just point out that when we had money to do our own treatment facility.

[Speaker 5] (1:48:54 - 1:48:58)
We chose not to do it and it cost us millions of dollars later to hook up into Lynn.

[Speaker 5] (1:48:59 - 1:49:02)
When the money was available for us to add on to the Clark,

[Speaker 5] (1:49:02 - 1:49:07)
we said no. We wound up buying the mobile trailers and adding and paying for that ourselves.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:07 - 1:49:09)
When we could have gone to the DCR or the MDC.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:11 - 1:49:12)
we said no.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:13 - 1:49:17)
But this board is different than what's happened in the past. You're proactive.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:17 - 1:49:18)
You're right there.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:18 - 1:49:20)
And so I'm pleading to you,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:20 - 1:49:22)
don't stop doing what you've been doing.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:23 - 1:49:24)
Don't rest.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:24 - 1:49:25)
You need less sleep,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:25 - 1:49:26)
more work.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:27 - 1:49:29)
So I encourage you to

[Speaker 1] (1:49:30 - 1:49:37)
to hear our cry and to know that the seniors need help.

[Speaker 3] (1:49:38 - 1:49:38)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:38 - 1:49:41)
We've only been addressed,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:42 - 1:49:57)
and I say this with my hat in my hand, somewhat embarrassed because the time that we voted for the high school was because the only way we could get the votes to build it was the senior center.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:59 - 1:50:00)
That's what we got out of it.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:00 - 1:50:01)
That's in the past.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:01 - 1:50:07)
What's in the future now is redemption and to do something that is transformative to this town.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:07 - 1:50:09)
And we can do it there.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:09 - 1:50:09)
And again,

[Speaker 1] (1:50:09 - 1:50:12)
it's not to the exclusion of rec.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:12 - 1:50:17)
It's not to the exclusion of an early pre-kindergarten.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:17 - 1:50:19)
It's not to the exclusion of maybe extended day there.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:20 - 1:50:21)
It's not to the exclusion of anything.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:21 - 1:50:27)
We want to have it be all encompassing. At the same time, we just need a piece of that for housing.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:29 - 1:50:37)
And we have the funding for it, something that we know can be difficult at times as we've experienced recently.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:37 - 1:50:41)
So I just sound like a broken record.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:41 - 1:50:44)
Right now is the time. I need your help. I appreciate it. And by the way,

[Speaker 1] (1:50:44 - 1:50:48)
Gino, this is the longest job interview I've ever seen anybody be on.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:53 - 1:50:59)
I don't know what other board members feel like. I mean, I think we need to digest this and um we need we're gonna

[Speaker 5] (1:50:59 - 1:50:59)
Well,

[Speaker 4] (1:50:59 - 1:51:00)
need to think about the

[Speaker 5] (1:51:00 - 1:51:01)
it's a community conversation,

[Speaker 4] (1:51:01 - 1:51:01)
the

[Speaker 5] (1:51:01 - 1:51:01)
yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:01 - 1:51:14)
process that we go through on this, not that we don't have many other processes uh going on, but you know whether it's the housing, whether it's the community life centre, whether it's the holding it onto it for the school, I

[Speaker 1] (1:51:14 - 1:51:15)
Which one of those?

[Speaker 4] (1:51:15 - 1:51:16)
think those are the three biggest

[Speaker 1] (1:51:16 - 1:51:16)
I

[Speaker 4] (1:51:16 - 1:51:20)
possibilities. Um there's a lot of different parties that are involved.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:20 - 1:51:20)
And

[Speaker 5] (1:51:20 - 1:51:20)
Well,

[Speaker 4] (1:51:20 - 1:51:21)
especially

[Speaker 5] (1:51:21 - 1:51:21)
I think

[Speaker 4] (1:51:21 - 1:51:22)
in this idea.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:22 - 1:51:23)
it's really good that Charlie has,

[Speaker 4] (1:51:23 - 1:51:24)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:24 - 1:51:26)
you know, brought this up and brought attention to this.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:30 - 1:51:30)
Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:31 - 1:51:32)
Thank you.

[Speaker 6] (1:51:32 - 1:51:32)
Thanks, Charlie.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:33 - 1:51:33)
Thank

[Speaker 6] (1:51:33 - 1:51:33)
Thanks.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:33 - 1:51:33)
you,

[Speaker 1] (1:51:33 - 1:51:33)
everybody.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:33 - 1:51:34)
Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:35 - 1:51:37)
Oh, I should say the Housing Authority.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:37 - 1:51:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:37 - 1:51:37)
Not you.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:37 - 1:51:38)
You have to take a motion.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:39 - 1:52:04)
You know what? Any other specific thoughts from the board about next steps? 'Cause uh like where it sits right now is Max and company are proceeding towards an R_F_R_ And to to me, David, actually what this comes back to is that I think that's a little bit you know I don't know if we're in a position to say, but I think that's slightly premature. Um I think there should be some more conversation, 'cause an R_F_R_

[Speaker 4] (1:52:04 - 1:52:07)
I think it has a focus to it, as you said,

[Speaker 4] (1:52:07 - 1:52:08)
Max,

[Speaker 4] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
right?

[Speaker 4] (1:52:08 - 1:52:11)
It's got a little bit more of a clear destination to it.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:12 - 1:52:18)
And, you know, you've got a framework which is for the next three years we're going to be using it as some temporary usage.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:19 - 1:52:26)
It feels to me like we should have a little bit more of some informal conversations first or an RFI.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:27 - 1:52:34)
to solicit ideas from people before we're launching down to an RFR.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:37 - 1:52:43)
And we may also want to look at our capital plan and and and try to figure out

[Speaker 5] (1:52:43 - 1:52:43)
And our master

[Speaker 7] (1:52:43 - 1:52:43)
or

[Speaker 5] (1:52:43 - 1:52:44)
plan,

[Speaker 7] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
and

[Speaker 5] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
for

[Speaker 7] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
our

[Speaker 5] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
that

[Speaker 7] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
master

[Speaker 5] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
matter,

[Speaker 7] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
plan

[Speaker 1] (1:52:44 - 1:52:44)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:44 - 1:52:45)
more right. specifically

[Speaker 5] (1:52:45 - 1:52:46)
There's a lot of moving pieces of

[Speaker 7] (1:52:46 - 1:52:46)
what the

[Speaker 5] (1:52:46 - 1:52:46)
pieces of

[Speaker 7] (1:52:46 - 1:52:46)
what

[Speaker 5] (1:52:46 - 1:52:46)
it that

[Speaker 7] (1:52:46 - 1:52:47)
the needs

[Speaker 5] (1:52:47 - 1:52:47)
do.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:47 - 1:52:51)
are and then when realistically we are going to either rebuild or

[Speaker 5] (1:52:51 - 1:52:51)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:51 - 1:52:55)
renovate the uh the middle school. I know I I I know it's there, but I know

[Speaker 5] (1:52:55 - 1:52:56)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:56 - 1:52:56)
but I know there

[Speaker 5] (1:52:56 - 1:52:56)
Exactly.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:56 - 1:52:58)
are a number of there are a number of things that are uh

[Speaker 5] (1:52:58 - 1:53:02)
I mean what five years, ten years, I mean we're throwing out a lot of numbers. So

[Speaker 7] (1:53:02 - 1:53:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:02 - 1:53:06)
all of that is part of the discussion. And it part of it a lot of it is part of

[Speaker 5] (1:53:06 - 1:53:12)
as part of this financial summit that we didn't have, right, because a lot of these pieces are relatable, right.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:13 - 1:53:14)
It's a bigger discussion

[Speaker 4] (1:53:14 - 1:53:14)
It's true,

[Speaker 5] (1:53:14 - 1:53:14)
to

[Speaker 4] (1:53:14 - 1:53:14)
some people

[Speaker 5] (1:53:14 - 1:53:14)
really have.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:14 - 1:53:17)
would want to make high-end condos there instead of

[Speaker 5] (1:53:17 - 1:53:17)
Sure.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:17 - 1:53:18)
something, right, so.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:18 - 1:53:18)
Sure, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:20 - 1:53:22)
Or the Community Life Center. So

[Speaker 4] (1:53:23 - 1:53:25)
Feel free to give

[Speaker 4] (1:53:26 - 1:53:28)
feedback about, you know, what

[Speaker 5] (1:53:28 - 1:53:28)
But

[Speaker 4] (1:53:28 - 1:53:28)
that

[Speaker 5] (1:53:28 - 1:53:31)
maybe we need to have another joint meeting with the school committee and really like

[Speaker 5] (1:53:32 - 1:53:35)
start the discussion, right, and and collaborate more.

[Speaker 8] (1:53:35 - 1:53:40)
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the reason we wanted to get in front of the school committee and the select board was to,

[Speaker 8] (1:53:40 - 1:53:50)
you know, if we're going to advance this to understand if there's support and what might that process look like or how you might want to shape it.

[Speaker 8] (1:53:50 - 1:53:55)
So interesting timing to kind of have this housing discussion.

[Speaker 8] (1:53:55 - 1:53:56)
And I don't think that.

[Speaker 8] (1:53:57 - 1:54:00)
All of these ideas need to be looked at as competing with one another.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:00 - 1:54:00)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:00 - 1:54:02)
I mean talk about the timelines for some of these

[Speaker 4] (1:54:02 - 1:54:02)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:02 - 1:54:03)
housing projects.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:04 - 1:54:11)
They they can be long-term. You know the hot the timeline for the middle school project could be long-term. I mean I think it's complicated.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:13 - 1:54:18)
I think all I would say is while all those things are going to take a long time to play out,

[Speaker 8] (1:54:18 - 1:54:22)
in the meantime we're going to have a vacant building that's going to be sitting there.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:23 - 1:54:32)
So I think that's why we're kind of in front of you saying let's do something relatively soon to try and get this building.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:34 - 1:54:37)
filled up, generated income instead of costing us money.

[Speaker 8] (1:54:37 - 1:54:41)
So, you know, I think all these conversations can be happening simultaneously,

[Speaker 8] (1:54:41 - 1:54:50)
but I just don't want to see the complexity of it all kind of stifle us and have us just end up with this building just sitting there as a liability for everyone.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:50 - 1:54:53)
Which makes sense because if they're looking for an initial lease term of three years,

[Speaker 5] (1:54:54 - 1:54:56)
none of this is happening in three years.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:56 - 1:54:58)
But if I heard Charlie right,

[Speaker 4] (1:54:59 - 1:55:05)
The the town needs to have control or whatever the exact word was he said in order to actually start their process

[Speaker 4] (1:55:05 - 1:55:06)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:06 - 1:55:06)
So you

[Speaker 5] (1:55:06 - 1:55:07)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:07 - 1:55:10)
know maybe that maybe the two to your point max aren't in conflict

[Speaker 4] (1:55:12 - 1:55:16)
Could you could the control be moved to the town?

[Speaker 4] (1:55:18 - 1:55:26)
If that's you know amenable to the schools which is a little bit different than just us signing off on it, I think

[Speaker 4] (1:55:26 - 1:55:27)
Correct me if I'm wrong

[Speaker 4] (1:55:29 - 1:55:30)
So the town has control.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:31 - 1:55:36)
Theoretically, this process could be looked into more, not necessarily actually go down this housing path,

[Speaker 4] (1:55:36 - 1:55:39)
but at least look into it more because the town has control.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:40 - 1:55:45)
And then that becomes more, you get more detail on what the possibilities are there.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:45 - 1:55:45)
In the meantime,

[Speaker 4] (1:55:46 - 1:55:49)
We're still leasing it out to someone so

[Speaker 5] (1:55:49 - 1:55:49)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:49 - 1:56:00)
it's not sitting empty and we're getting income while that's happening. So it's just a slight move to move it over to the town side if that's a critical component to figuring this out.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:00 - 1:56:00)
And I believe,

[Speaker 5] (1:56:00 - 1:56:06)
Understanding too that if we do that and we assume it does go over to the town side, then we're responsible for,

[Speaker 4] (1:56:06 - 1:56:06)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:06 - 1:56:08)
you know, if that doesn't get,

[Speaker 5] (1:56:08 - 1:56:10)
if that building doesn't get leased or rented,

[Speaker 5] (1:56:10 - 1:56:11)
we're,

[Speaker 4] (1:56:11 - 1:56:11)
Sure.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:11 - 1:56:13)
you know, we're putting that on our operating budget.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:13 - 1:56:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:14 - 1:56:15)
Maybe the state will pay for it.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:15 - 1:56:16)
for according to Charlie

[Speaker 5] (1:56:16 - 1:56:16)
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:16 - 1:56:17)
in the meantime.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:17 - 1:56:27)
No, but this but we did we did do something similar where there was control that was shifted from the school to the town when we issued the RFP for the for the Hadley

[Speaker 4] (1:56:27 - 1:56:27)
Right, right.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:27 - 1:56:28)
school I do believe

[Speaker 8] (1:56:29 - 1:56:31)
Hadley is now under the control of the town.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:31 - 1:56:32)
No, understood.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:32 - 1:56:34)
But when we issued the RFP,

[Speaker 7] (1:56:34 - 1:56:37)
I think there's been a transfer of control.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:37 - 1:56:45)
I believe we put a deed restriction on that property to ensure that there was not market rate housing. We took that option off the table.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:45 - 1:56:56)
So there has been collaboration between the school department and the town for buildings that are under school control. So this wouldn't be completely unprecedented. This would be something.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:57 - 1:57:00)
should be another instance of us working together to solve a common

[Speaker 7] (1:57:02 - 1:57:06)
uh problem and work towards a common solution. In my view.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:08 - 1:57:11)
So looking back at your memo,

[Speaker 4] (1:57:11 - 1:57:18)
the first thing that pops out at me is given the school department's desire to retain control of the Clark building, so

[Speaker 5] (1:57:19 - 1:57:20)
Is there room for There's collaboration

[Speaker 4] (1:57:20 - 1:57:25)
a nub right there, right, that we need to resolve. You know, how important is that?

[Speaker 4] (1:57:25 - 1:57:28)
Is that, you know, can it be, you know, moved permanently,

[Speaker 4] (1:57:29 - 1:57:31)
temporarily and still meet, you know,

[Speaker 4] (1:57:31 - 1:57:34)
the longer term potential needs of the school district?

[Speaker 4] (1:57:34 - 1:57:38)
It seems like that's part of the conversation needs to happen in the short run.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:39 - 1:57:39)
Ideally,

[Speaker 4] (1:57:39 - 1:57:45)
I think from, I'll say my own, I don't know if it's the select board in general's perspective.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:46 - 1:57:54)
Love to kind of resolve that a little bit, what the options are before going down the pipe of the RFR.

[Speaker 8] (1:57:55 - 1:58:05)
Yeah, you know and really at the core of all this and hasn't been spoken a lot about it's been referenced is the middle school right and and what's gonna happen with the middle school we know like there's the window project which is

[Speaker 8] (1:58:05 - 1:58:29)
going to be advancing with design soon but there's some real challenges at the middle school that are that are hard for the town to solve when I don't think we're really in a position financially to deal with the middle school like it needs to be dealt with because we've just built a hundred million dollar school but that doesn't change the fact that we have systems at the middle school HVAC and electrical

[Speaker 8] (1:58:30 - 1:58:32)
And accessibility issues that are massive,

[Speaker 8] (1:58:32 - 1:58:38)
and we just need to be honest with that and start strategizing that.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:38 - 1:58:42)
And my opinion is that we need to be looking at.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:44 - 1:58:48)
Statement of interest to get the ball rolling so we're looking at the different options.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:48 - 1:58:54)
I really do hope that early 26 we're looking at the statement of interest.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:54 - 1:58:56)
While it's challenging,

[Speaker 8] (1:58:56 - 1:59:03)
we just need to kind of face it head on and start to figure out what's going to happen with the middle school because that chip.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:08 - 1:59:11)
And just to be clear, when we say statement of interest.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:11 - 1:59:12)
To MSBA.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:12 - 1:59:13)
Through MSBA,

[Speaker 1] (1:59:13 - 1:59:14)
right.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:18 - 1:59:19)
And that's a long process.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:19 - 1:59:20)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:20 - 1:59:21)
A long process.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:28 - 1:59:29)
More conversations to be had.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:29 - 1:59:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:30 - 1:59:30)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:31 - 1:59:33)
All right.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:34 - 1:59:35)
Thanks, Max.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:35 - 1:59:36)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:36 - 1:59:37)
Thank you, Max.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:39 - 1:59:45)
Next item. Second reading. Discussion and possible vote to approve standalone policies recommended by Human Resources,

[Speaker 2] (1:59:45 - 1:59:46)
KP Law,

[Speaker 2] (1:59:46 - 1:59:48)
and or the Risk Control Insurance Company.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:48 - 1:59:54)
An electronic communications and computer usage, drug and alcohol-free workplace, and motor vehicle record,

[Speaker 2] (1:59:54 - 1:59:58)
ADA policy, ADA grievance policy, and the updated employee handbook.

[Speaker 2] (2:00:01 - 2:00:04)
Do you know, do you want to say anything about this or Marianne? Or

[Speaker 5] (2:00:04 - 2:00:05)
I'd like to turn it over to Marianne.

[Speaker 6] (2:00:22 - 2:00:25)
We first went through this in, I think it was March twenty-sixth.

[Speaker 6] (2:00:27 - 2:00:33)
There are the standalone policies that we're looking for approval on.

[Speaker 6] (2:00:34 - 2:00:36)
And then the handbook itself,

[Speaker 6] (2:00:36 - 2:00:41)
which I don't expect that all to happen today. Um

[Speaker 2] (2:00:41 - 2:00:44)
Were there any other were there any major changes from the last reading?

[Speaker 6] (2:00:45 - 2:00:54)
No, so you guys did ask for information from me on you wanted to do a comparison on our vacation days and our sick days and our personal days because they seemed a little excessive.

[Speaker 6] (2:00:54 - 2:00:56)
I did the super peer.

[Speaker 6] (2:00:56 - 2:01:05)
I sent it to you all on April 2nd with the spreadsheet of the comparison next to all of the different towns and then we just haven't spoken since.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:09 - 2:01:11)
Danielle, do you have any comments on that?

[Speaker 6] (2:01:11 - 2:01:15)
Oh, I have a lot of comments. Do I? Do you have a lot of time?

[Speaker 6] (2:01:16 - 2:01:17)
Um do you want to go through

[Speaker 2] (2:01:17 - 2:01:17)
The

[Speaker 6] (2:01:17 - 2:01:17)
the

[Speaker 2] (2:01:17 - 2:01:17)
night is

[Speaker 6] (2:01:17 - 2:01:17)
individual

[Speaker 2] (2:01:17 - 2:01:18)
young.

[Speaker 6] (2:01:18 - 2:01:19)
standalone policies first?

[Speaker 5] (2:01:19 - 2:01:20)
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 6] (2:01:20 - 2:01:22)
The I mean this stuff is all the ADA,

[Speaker 6] (2:01:23 - 2:01:27)
drug and alcohol, this is all, this has been vetted by KP law, right?

[Speaker 7] (2:01:27 - 2:01:27)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (2:01:27 - 2:01:28)
So yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:01:29 - 2:01:34)
None of that. None, nothing there stood out to me. That's I'm looking more at the handbook, so.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:34 - 2:01:38)
Okay, so are there any comments on any of the other policies besides the handbook?

[Speaker 6] (2:01:43 - 2:01:44)
I have one I wanna raise.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:45 - 2:01:45)
Great.

[Speaker 6] (2:01:45 - 2:02:01)
So it was sort of handed to me to be the ADA coordinator because at PEAT used to have it. I don't know if I necessarily should be. It's not uncommon for HR to but it can also go to the building commissioner or someone in community development. So I kinda wanted you to weigh in on that. I'm listed right now, but it can be anybody.

[Speaker 8] (2:02:03 - 2:02:09)
So are you also the harassment contact? Are you that person as well, like title not any of that?

[Speaker 6] (2:02:10 - 2:02:10)
For employees?

[Speaker 8] (2:02:10 - 2:02:11)
Ah, yes.

[Speaker 6] (2:02:11 - 2:02:12)
Yes.

[Speaker 8] (2:02:12 - 2:02:30)
So, yeah. I mean, my natural inclination is that same person unfortunately is tagged with all of them. If you're one, then you're head of the go-to for all, but I can certainly understand um your hesitation there. ADA is very specific and it isn't just employment, right, so

[Speaker 9] (2:02:31 - 2:02:36)
Should ADA be the building the building inspector. Is

[Speaker 9] (2:02:36 - 2:02:38)
So, it seems like it's just

[Speaker 8] (2:02:38 - 2:02:40)
I think with Rich in his capacity, probably

[Speaker 6] (2:02:40 - 2:02:41)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (2:02:41 - 2:02:51)
he would fit the bill with his wealth of experience. It not all building inspectors typically have that same caliber of resume that he does.

[Speaker 6] (2:02:52 - 2:02:54)
And I d I did take there was a free online training,

[Speaker 6] (2:02:54 - 2:03:00)
so I took it, but it seems like it would be he him that I would be going to anytime something came up anyway.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:00 - 2:03:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:00 - 2:03:00)
So

[Speaker 2] (2:03:01 - 2:03:04)
You're talking about for the like the ADA grievance procedure

[Speaker 6] (2:03:04 - 2:03:04)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:03:04 - 2:03:04)
or

[Speaker 6] (2:03:04 - 2:03:05)
if someone's

[Speaker 8] (2:03:05 - 2:03:05)
That first

[Speaker 6] (2:03:05 - 2:03:05)
complaining about

[Speaker 8] (2:03:05 - 2:03:05)
bullet,

[Speaker 6] (2:03:05 - 2:03:06)
a sidewalk

[Speaker 9] (2:03:06 - 2:03:06)
We

[Speaker 6] (2:03:06 - 2:03:06)
or

[Speaker 9] (2:03:06 - 2:03:07)
have to pavement have one,

[Speaker 6] (2:03:07 - 2:03:07)
in a building.

[Speaker 9] (2:03:07 - 2:03:09)
we have to have one person identified as the ADA coordinator.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:09 - 2:03:10)
Yes.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:10 - 2:03:10)
Coordinator.

[Speaker 9] (2:03:10 - 2:03:11)
of the town.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:13 - 2:03:14)
That's a good point.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:14 - 2:03:18)
Gina, have you had any conversations with him about, have you had any conversations with the church about it?

[Speaker 8] (2:03:18 - 2:03:20)
That probably is the first step, right?

[Speaker 5] (2:03:20 - 2:03:23)
Exactly. Yeah, I have not had any conversations with Rich.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:23 - 2:03:27)
We didn't have anybody listed, so I ended up being listed because we needed to

[Speaker 8] (2:03:27 - 2:03:27)
have Like

[Speaker 6] (2:03:27 - 2:03:27)
someone.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:27 - 2:03:28)
defaulted, yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:33 - 2:03:39)
I mean it, you know, you're talking about potentially having to modify buildings, you're you know, there's a lot that goes into it, it's not

[Speaker 8] (2:03:39 - 2:03:48)
just a human resources component. So it really is probably out of all the individual notices, it's the least human resources related.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:49 - 2:03:49)
Right?

[Speaker 8] (2:03:50 - 2:03:56)
You might even have, like, a town administrator that is the you know coordinator, you could even have that.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:56 - 2:03:57)
Yep, that is also

[Speaker 8] (2:03:57 - 2:03:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:58 - 2:03:58)
a comment.

[Speaker 8] (2:03:58 - 2:03:59)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:03:59 - 2:04:09)
But, so I have to say like the beginning of this grievance proce maybe used by anyone who wishes to file a complaint alleging discrimination on the basis of disability in employment practices and policies

[Speaker 8] (2:04:09 - 2:04:09)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:09 - 2:04:12)
or the provision of services, activities, programs and benefits of the town.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:13 - 2:04:13)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:04:13 - 2:04:17)
That that sounds pretty far outside the purview of the building commissioner.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:18 - 2:04:19)
Um well if

[Speaker 6] (2:04:19 - 2:04:19)
It could

[Speaker 8] (2:04:19 - 2:04:19)
you

[Speaker 6] (2:04:19 - 2:04:19)
be

[Speaker 8] (2:04:19 - 2:04:20)
think

[Speaker 6] (2:04:20 - 2:04:20)
done

[Speaker 8] (2:04:20 - 2:04:20)
about

[Speaker 6] (2:04:20 - 2:04:20)
in

[Speaker 8] (2:04:20 - 2:04:31)
the ways that people with disabilities would bring a suit, right, it would be accessibility, right, to buildings, elevator access, um things of that nature. But hiring certainly,

[Speaker 8] (2:04:31 - 2:04:31)
of course, is

[Speaker 2] (2:04:31 - 2:04:32)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:32 - 2:04:33)
a component of it as well.

[Speaker 9] (2:04:34 - 2:04:35)
Maybe we

[Speaker 6] (2:04:35 - 2:04:35)
So

[Speaker 9] (2:04:35 - 2:04:36)
should have co-coordinators.

[Speaker 6] (2:04:36 - 2:04:46)
yeah. I mean it can be shared if there's an employee that temporarily needs an accommodation because of like a injury or something, they would go to human resources for that.

[Speaker 9] (2:04:47 - 2:04:49)
So would that make sense to have co-coordinators?

[Speaker 8] (2:04:49 - 2:04:49)
Not really.

[Speaker 9] (2:04:49 - 2:04:50)
No?

[Speaker 8] (2:04:50 - 2:04:51)
To be honest, it's usually one person.

[Speaker 8] (2:04:58 - 2:05:01)
That to me is something that needs a little bit more discussion,

[Speaker 8] (2:05:01 - 2:05:01)
right?

[Speaker 8] (2:05:01 - 2:05:13)
I think you have to, you might even want to wait for a permanent TA to decide something like that, right? That might be something that's a bigger conversation. Just because of the liability associated with this type of.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:14 - 2:05:15)
um act?

[Speaker 2] (2:05:15 - 2:05:16)
Who is serving that now?

[Speaker 8] (2:05:17 - 2:05:18)
I think it's Marianne.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:19 - 2:05:22)
I my instinct is to roll with it as it is.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:22 - 2:05:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:22 - 2:05:27)
Basically you can oh we can always come back and revote this if someone really cares about switching it.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:27 - 2:05:28)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:28 - 2:05:29)
But uh

[Speaker 6] (2:05:29 - 2:05:30)
I just wanted to bring it to your attention.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:30 - 2:05:30)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:32 - 2:05:33)
Is that okay with everyone?

[Speaker 9] (2:05:33 - 2:05:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:33 - 2:05:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:05:33 - 2:05:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:33 - 2:05:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:33 - 2:05:34)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:34 - 2:05:39)
And then the other one I just noticed that's uh not all the way filled in is on the electronic communications.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:40 - 2:05:44)
There is a spot here for insert title of appropriate official on page four.

[Speaker 9] (2:05:47 - 2:05:47)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:50 - 2:05:52)
Mm-hmm. So this is a new one, is it?

[Speaker 6] (2:05:53 - 2:06:03)
Yeah, we don't currently well we have some old electronic communications policies that are very outdated, because they speak to old electronic devices like dial up and things like that.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:04 - 2:06:06)
without permission from the town administrator?

[Speaker 6] (2:06:06 - 2:06:07)
Yeah, I mean that's just

[Speaker 8] (2:06:07 - 2:06:07)
Well,

[Speaker 6] (2:06:07 - 2:06:07)
up to

[Speaker 8] (2:06:07 - 2:06:07)
sometimes

[Speaker 6] (2:06:07 - 2:06:07)
you to

[Speaker 8] (2:06:07 - 2:06:08)
too,

[Speaker 6] (2:06:08 - 2:06:08)
decide

[Speaker 8] (2:06:08 - 2:06:08)
like and the director

[Speaker 6] (2:06:08 - 2:06:09)
also

[Speaker 8] (2:06:09 - 2:06:09)
of IT,

[Speaker 8] (2:06:09 - 2:06:10)
which we don't have, so

[Speaker 9] (2:06:10 - 2:06:11)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:11 - 2:06:16)
that's usually, you know, a person that you would have potentially there, but we don't have one of those.

[Speaker 5] (2:06:16 - 2:06:18)
The town administrator or his designee.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:18 - 2:06:19)
Right,

[Speaker 9] (2:06:19 - 2:06:19)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:19 - 2:06:20)
you could do that as well.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:20 - 2:06:20)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:23 - 2:06:25)
Yeah, I would just say town administrator.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:25 - 2:06:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:32 - 2:06:34)
Okay, with those,

[Speaker 2] (2:06:35 - 2:06:40)
do you all want to take a vote on those or do you want to move on to a discussion of the

[Speaker 9] (2:06:40 - 2:06:44)
What about the motor vehicle records? What is that? I don't wanna

[Speaker 6] (2:06:44 - 2:06:51)
Recommended by our risk management, our our company that we use and they said we could use their policy and legal said it was better to stay with

[Speaker 9] (2:06:51 - 2:06:51)
But

[Speaker 6] (2:06:51 - 2:06:52)
them.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:52 - 2:06:52)
we didn't have one before?

[Speaker 6] (2:06:53 - 2:06:54)
Not really.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:54 - 2:06:54)
Oh, God.

[Speaker 6] (2:06:54 - 2:06:56)
I think Gino has one for DPW.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:56 - 2:06:56)
Right,

[Speaker 5] (2:06:56 - 2:06:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:06:57 - 2:07:00)
but we have more than DPW using vehicles, right? So

[Speaker 8] (2:07:01 - 2:07:03)
If we have to have one, I'm surprised we didn't.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:04 - 2:07:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:06 - 2:07:15)
That one is looks like it's fairly well defined by travellers. I think we can really mess with that too much.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:16 - 2:07:19)
Okay, so do we want to make a motion to approve the standalone policies?

[Speaker 2] (2:07:20 - 2:07:21)
Well, I'll take one.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:21 - 2:07:26)
Alright, we'll make a motion to adopt the let's see, what are we calling them here in the

[Speaker 8] (2:07:29 - 2:07:37)
The standalone policies recommended by Human Resources, KP law and or the risk control insurance company to include electronic communication and computer use,

[Speaker 8] (2:07:38 - 2:07:41)
drug and alcohol free workplace and motor vehicle record.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:42 - 2:07:43)
ADA policy,

[Speaker 8] (2:07:43 - 2:07:47)
ADA grievance policy and I'll stop there because we want to talk about the handbook.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:47 - 2:07:48)
I'll second that.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:49 - 2:07:52)
As filled in as our for our discussion.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:52 - 2:07:52)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:52 - 2:07:55)
All in favor?

[Speaker 9] (2:07:55 - 2:07:55)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:55 - 2:07:56)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:56 - 2:07:56)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:59 - 2:07:59)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (2:07:59 - 2:08:01)
Okay, now on to the handbook.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:07 - 2:08:12)
So besides the comp, the comp and nothing else major since the last reading?

[Speaker 6] (2:08:12 - 2:08:19)
Not, I haven't changed a thing because I was actually waiting for your input from my April second email.

[Speaker 6] (2:08:20 - 2:08:23)
David, it asked for the original policy,

[Speaker 6] (2:08:23 - 2:08:27)
so I sent that to you and then the current policy,

[Speaker 6] (2:08:27 - 2:08:27)
I should say.

[Speaker 6] (2:08:29 - 2:08:39)
And then you wanted a Word document of this policy, so you could make edits and a comparison side by side of vacation time and

[Speaker 6] (2:08:41 - 2:08:44)
I sent looks like this with all the super parent columns.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:46 - 2:08:46)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:47 - 2:08:49)
And did you get a whole host of edits back from us?

[Speaker 6] (2:08:50 - 2:08:50)
None.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:50 - 2:08:50)
None.

[Speaker 6] (2:08:55 - 2:08:56)
Okay, so let's see.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:58 - 2:08:59)
Do you wanna just uh

[Speaker 2] (2:09:01 - 2:09:02)
I don't know if you,

[Speaker 2] (2:09:02 - 2:09:04)
because I don't have that comparison in front of me.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:05 - 2:09:08)
Did that raise up any red flags for you, Mary Ann,

[Speaker 1] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:08 - 2:09:09)
or Danielle?

[Speaker 2] (2:09:09 - 2:09:11)
Do you have a discussion? Is there?

[Speaker 1] (2:09:11 - 2:09:24)
So I was zoning in primarily in to the point that we had this discussion earlier about the utilisation of sick time when someone is retiring. Um I felt like we needed to really

[Speaker 1] (2:09:24 - 2:09:25)
focus and

[Speaker 3] (2:09:25 - 2:09:25)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:25 - 2:09:37)
what we were giving people and the policies surrounding it. So if you wanna start with the vacation policies on twenty nine that's where I went.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:38 - 2:09:41)
The holiday page seemed fine to me. I didn't see anything wrong w

[Speaker 2] (2:09:41 - 2:09:42)
Which which page was it then?

[Speaker 1] (2:09:42 - 2:09:43)
twenty nine.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:43 - 2:09:43)
Twenty nine.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:48 - 2:10:15)
Okay, so the very beginning starts, you know, six month rebat probationary period before they can utilise vacation time, all of that made sense to me. One s where I started to have issues, and I've said this before, where we're getting into differences in terms of grading of employment positions. That's not normally the case, right? We don't normally Well, you know, we also don't include here what position is included in which grade.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:15 - 2:10:28)
So in most municipalities they give you, you know, up to five years of service you get ten days. Up to ten years of service you get fifteen days. Here we're breaking it out based on what their positions are.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:29 - 2:10:31)
That's not a common practice.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:33 - 2:10:34)
So that was my first concern.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:35 - 2:10:39)
Is that born out, Marianne, with what you found too? Just uh

[Speaker 1] (2:10:39 - 2:10:54)
Yeah there well one of the things even KP recommended was as of year 15 that could get us into trouble with collective bargaining because it's way earlier than it is for them. So that extra fifth week was recommended to be kicked into 20.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:56 - 2:10:59)
KP Law recommended not doing that until 20th year?

[Speaker 4] (2:11:01 - 2:11:03)
Yeah, I'm gonna find the exact notes I had on that one.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:09 - 2:11:12)
But what about just the fundamental thing Danielle's bringing up, just the fact that

[Speaker 4] (2:11:12 - 2:11:12)
The

[Speaker 2] (2:11:12 - 2:11:12)
it's

[Speaker 4] (2:11:12 - 2:11:12)
grading.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:12 - 2:11:17)
by grade, and there's there's a distinction by grade. Is that common did you find or

[Speaker 1] (2:11:17 - 2:11:20)
Mm-hmm. I didn't find it to be common on the comps that we that you said.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:20 - 2:11:20)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:11:20 - 2:11:23)
Yeah, it was it was broken out in other

[Speaker 4] (2:11:24 - 2:11:30)
policies like what the different grades were, but in some it was very generically just the same across the board.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:31 - 2:11:39)
But I would say the, uh if from my experience of looking at your comps, the majority of towns listed they go by length of service.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:39 - 2:11:39)
Period.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:39 - 2:11:39)
Period.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:40 - 2:11:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:43 - 2:11:45)
So that was my first concern.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:45 - 2:11:49)
And and that that could be easy if quote easy if everyone's

[Speaker 2] (2:11:50 - 2:11:52)
getting lifted up but

[Speaker 1] (2:11:52 - 2:12:02)
Sure. Right, if you try to go the other way, right, you have there's more, you know, I mean would we really considering we're proposing a change to a handbook that probably hasn't seen changes like this in quite some time,

[Speaker 1] (2:12:02 - 2:12:11)
I would err on the other side of generosity in this respect, right? Because I do have other things that I would propose that would go the other way.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:11 - 2:12:12)
Just a little...

[Speaker 4] (2:12:12 - 2:12:15)
Well, in any changes that we make, anybody who's already been hired in would

[Speaker 1] (2:12:15 - 2:12:15)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (2:12:15 - 2:12:15)
be grandfathered

[Speaker 1] (2:12:15 - 2:12:16)
would be grandfathered.

[Speaker 4] (2:12:16 - 2:12:36)
in. But another little asterisk to this comparison is they did say obviously when someone's negotiating coming on board they can negotiate more vacation time. It's common practice if someone is getting hired in a a department head position, they may say I'll come, but I need X amount of weeks of vacation, and that's a conversation between the town

[Speaker 1] (2:12:36 - 2:12:36)
And

[Speaker 4] (2:12:36 - 2:12:36)
administrator

[Speaker 1] (2:12:36 - 2:12:39)
so to that I would say that it's standard practice for them to ask.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:38 - 2:12:41)
them to ask, but it shouldn't be standard practice for us to accommodate,

[Speaker 4] (2:12:41 - 2:12:42)
Correct.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:42 - 2:12:56)
right. So people can always ask, it will ask you for the moon and the stars, but from a perspective of what Swampscott would consider standard practice, I don't I think it we should not be giving anybody that level of control to negotiate that, anything outside of the same book.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:57 - 2:12:58)
That's my personal thought.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:59 - 2:13:01)
So what what what is what is the is there a

[Speaker 2] (2:13:03 - 2:13:09)
A common practice is everyone get three weeks out of the out of the shoot or is it two or

[Speaker 5] (2:13:09 - 2:13:11)
No, depending on the different levels. Um

[Speaker 1] (2:13:11 - 2:13:14)
So I think the average for years one through five is two weeks.

[Speaker 1] (2:13:15 - 2:13:28)
And and here, I mean, I think we've got for grades four and four four through six which, again, I don't even know what that is, um we're starting them with three weeks so we could if we wanted to start everybody at three weeks.

[Speaker 5] (2:13:29 - 2:13:31)
Right? Instead of the,

[Speaker 2] (2:13:31 - 2:13:31)
but Mm.

[Speaker 5] (2:13:31 - 2:13:33)
though I do think the standard is two weeks.

[Speaker 2] (2:13:33 - 2:13:34)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (2:13:34 - 2:13:39)
So if we have a department head, is a department head a grade one, a grade two,

[Speaker 6] (2:13:39 - 2:13:39)
Exactly,

[Speaker 1] (2:13:39 - 2:13:39)
A

[Speaker 2] (2:13:39 - 2:13:40)
a grade four?

[Speaker 6] (2:13:40 - 2:13:41)
exactly.

[Speaker 5] (2:13:41 - 2:13:48)
I did edit originally a document that I believe was in the April 2nd with the right who fell under each level,

[Speaker 1] (2:13:48 - 2:13:56)
which is for a townhall this size, so small, to have them broken out by that is very rare.

[Speaker 4] (2:13:56 - 2:14:00)
I think it's actually spelled out in the old policy too, but it is department heads that are in a higher

[Speaker 5] (2:14:00 - 2:14:01)
or level

[Speaker 1] (2:14:01 - 2:14:01)
Of course.

[Speaker 5] (2:14:01 - 2:14:02)
they start out with three weeks.

[Speaker 1] (2:14:02 - 2:14:04)
Of course. I mean they, you know.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:04 - 2:14:05)
Five to fives and sixes.

[Speaker 7] (2:14:06 - 2:14:11)
So do we actually have department heads make re requests for vacations in advance? Does that

[Speaker 5] (2:14:12 - 2:14:29)
It's common practice in private sector so depending on the person's background if they're coming over from another municipality and may already have a certain amount of vacation time or whatever the case may be it is common language in a negotiation when offering a job to someone or discussing offering a job that that'll come up.

[Speaker 1] (2:14:30 - 2:14:38)
I mean, that should be the standard, that it is requested in advance, but of course there are exceptions to the rule. If new employee coming in, I have a vacation booked, is that okay, right?

[Speaker 1] (2:14:40 - 2:14:48)
So that's that was my first issue. And then sick time. Sick time. So I think that we absolutely have to have a provision in here.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:49 - 2:14:51)
Jane, Jane, oh do you mind if we just it's just

[Speaker 1] (2:14:51 - 2:14:51)
Oh,

[Speaker 2] (2:14:51 - 2:14:51)
the

[Speaker 1] (2:14:51 - 2:14:52)
you wanna take a vacation?

[Speaker 2] (2:14:52 - 2:14:53)
kind of kind of settle

[Speaker 1] (2:14:53 - 2:14:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:53 - 2:14:55)
it in your way, I mean we just kind of draft settle

[Speaker 1] (2:14:55 - 2:14:55)
Sure.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:55 - 2:14:57)
it just so we're um so

[Speaker 2] (2:14:59 - 2:15:10)
I'm a little stunned, but it you're saying if someone's already employed here, they're uh forever, their entire employment forever is governed by what was in place when they started?

[Speaker 5] (2:15:11 - 2:15:16)
Usually. We can have grandfathered, right? You can grandfather

[Speaker 2] (2:15:16 - 2:15:17)
Okay, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:15:17 - 2:15:18)
employees, you don't have to.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:18 - 2:15:19)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (2:15:19 - 2:15:19)
It's not required.

[Speaker 4] (2:15:20 - 2:15:22)
I would defer to legal counsel just to make sure.

[Speaker 5] (2:15:22 - 2:15:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:25 - 2:15:28)
Um, because I would think that there would be a provision in people's offer letter or whatever

[Speaker 5] (2:15:28 - 2:15:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:28 - 2:15:29)
according to the standard

[Speaker 7] (2:15:29 - 2:15:30)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:30 - 2:15:32)
H_R_ policies at the time or

[Speaker 5] (2:15:32 - 2:15:32)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:32 - 2:15:32)
whatever,

[Speaker 2] (2:15:32 - 2:15:32)
right? So

[Speaker 5] (2:15:32 - 2:15:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:33 - 2:15:34)
um so

[Speaker 2] (2:15:35 - 2:15:38)
Danielle, you're kind of suggesting Marianne you to go to three across

[Speaker 7] (2:15:38 - 2:15:38)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:38 - 2:15:40)
the board, you know, it's

[Speaker 5] (2:15:41 - 2:15:41)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:41 - 2:15:47)
and it make it basically consistent with the employees in grades four through six use that framework

[Speaker 5] (2:15:47 - 2:15:48)
Use

[Speaker 2] (2:15:48 - 2:15:48)
for

[Speaker 5] (2:15:48 - 2:15:48)
the

[Speaker 2] (2:15:48 - 2:15:48)
everybody.

[Speaker 5] (2:15:48 - 2:15:49)
four through six for all.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:49 - 2:15:50)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (2:15:50 - 2:15:52)
Yes. And I'm saying not to break them out through grade.

[Speaker 1] (2:15:53 - 2:15:58)
To just have vacation time zero to five years 15 days and

[Speaker 1] (2:15:59 - 2:16:00)
start from there

[Speaker 2] (2:16:02 - 2:16:04)
So I think even just that.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:04 - 2:16:08)
Make leads me to say we're probably not really actually voting on this tonight.

[Speaker 5] (2:16:08 - 2:16:09)
No.

[Speaker 7] (2:16:09 - 2:16:09)
No.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:09 - 2:16:10)
You have to be something

[Speaker 1] (2:16:10 - 2:16:10)
Oh

[Speaker 2] (2:16:10 - 2:16:10)
right.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:10 - 2:16:10)
god, yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:16:10 - 2:16:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:10 - 2:16:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:16:11 - 2:16:11)
Didn't

[Speaker 2] (2:16:11 - 2:16:11)
Yeah, okay

[Speaker 5] (2:16:11 - 2:16:11)
expect.

[Speaker 5] (2:16:11 - 2:16:12)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 8] (2:16:12 - 2:16:20)
But no, but the fact that we're not voting on it is fine. But can we not can we not have it just can we not have 90 days go by

[Speaker 5] (2:16:20 - 2:16:20)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:16:20 - 2:16:20)
between between

[Speaker 2] (2:16:20 - 2:16:21)
Yeah

[Speaker 8] (2:16:21 - 2:16:21)
meetings?

[Speaker 5] (2:16:21 - 2:16:22)
I agree.

[Speaker 8] (2:16:22 - 2:16:26)
I mean, this was just a this a lot of time. I know we have a lot of stuff going on, but we I do think if

[Speaker 5] (2:16:26 - 2:16:26)
need this

[Speaker 8] (2:16:26 - 2:16:26)
this

[Speaker 5] (2:16:26 - 2:16:27)
in place.

[Speaker 8] (2:16:27 - 2:16:29)
is on our next agenda that we can.

[Speaker 8] (2:16:30 - 2:16:33)
that we can work through this and it's fresh.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:33 - 2:16:34)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:36 - 2:16:37)
That would be my suggestion.

[Speaker 8] (2:16:37 - 2:16:38)
Please, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:38 - 2:16:38)
Of course, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:41 - 2:16:53)
I just think we have to run these things back through town council, what the ramifications are. I think just think about it a little while like, you know, I know Max and Patrick are sitting here going like this is awesome, you know, our vacation's going up, maybe I

[Speaker 1] (2:16:53 - 2:16:53)
If

[Speaker 2] (2:16:53 - 2:16:53)
don't

[Speaker 1] (2:16:53 - 2:16:56)
you say that right now, you might change your mind. No, I'm kidding.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:56 - 2:16:57)
I'm kidding.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:58 - 2:16:59)
Okay, sorry, go ahead.

[Speaker 9] (2:17:04 - 2:17:10)
Just to add, most of the department heads have contracts right now anyways, and their vacation time is in the contract.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:11 - 2:17:11)
Mm.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:11 - 2:17:12)
Mm-hmm. So it's outside of this.

[Speaker 9] (2:17:13 - 2:17:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:13 - 2:17:13)
It's

[Speaker 2] (2:17:13 - 2:17:13)
So

[Speaker 5] (2:17:13 - 2:17:13)
not at a grandfather provision.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:13 - 2:17:17)
all, not all about the v the department heads genome, there's other people too.

[Speaker 9] (2:17:17 - 2:17:17)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:23 - 2:17:23)
So sick time.

[Speaker 1] (2:17:24 - 2:17:25)
Sixteen.

[Speaker 1] (2:17:26 - 2:17:43)
Okay. So standard stuff, um based on hours, how much you accrue. I I'm not really understanding why there is two methods for accrual, alternate method one, alternate accrual method two, I mean

[Speaker 1] (2:17:46 - 2:17:46)
I wonder where

[Speaker 4] (2:17:46 - 2:17:47)
Which page

[Speaker 1] (2:17:47 - 2:17:47)
that

[Speaker 4] (2:17:47 - 2:17:47)
are you on?

[Speaker 1] (2:17:47 - 2:17:49)
we're at thirty one.

[Speaker 7] (2:17:49 - 2:17:49)
Thirty one.

[Speaker 1] (2:17:49 - 2:17:49)
Thirty one.

[Speaker 1] (2:17:50 - 2:17:56)
I don't know the historical s piece of that or when that r r changed or why it two came into play.

[Speaker 5] (2:18:03 - 2:18:07)
I don't I don't know. That was like an example that was added into it, I think, can come out.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:07 - 2:18:21)
Um it it doesn't need to but it's it's okay. It in the part on page thirty two, use of sick time. It doesn't define how many days successively that someone has to be out before you require a sick note. So usually it's five business days.

[Speaker 9] (2:18:21 - 2:18:22)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:22 - 2:18:34)
Right, it says you give them seven working days to provide the note, but it doesn't say that's the spot where it should say if you're out five days or more, you know, you're required to provide, you may be required to provide a doctor's note.

[Speaker 9] (2:18:35 - 2:18:35)
Thank you.

[Speaker 9] (2:18:37 - 2:18:39)
Do you have a specific line there, Danielle,

[Speaker 9] (2:18:39 - 2:18:40)
you're looking to

[Speaker 4] (2:18:40 - 2:18:40)
Well,

[Speaker 9] (2:18:40 - 2:18:40)
change?

[Speaker 4] (2:18:40 - 2:18:41)
it's missing, so it's

[Speaker 9] (2:18:41 - 2:18:43)
Missing? it just missing. Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:18:43 - 2:18:52)
Yeah. It speaks to, you know, taking off the day before calling in sick day or before or after a holiday, but it doesn't really say, you know, if you're out five days in a row,

[Speaker 4] (2:18:52 - 2:18:54)
we may require a doctor's note.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:55 - 2:18:58)
Yeah, we can take that language out of the DPW contract if

[Speaker 1] (2:18:58 - 2:18:58)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:58 - 2:18:58)
you know what's in there.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:58 - 2:19:00)
I'm sure it's in all of right.

[Speaker 3] (2:19:01 - 2:19:05)
So MD note may be required if sick more than five days,

[Speaker 3] (2:19:05 - 2:19:06)
something like that.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:07 - 2:19:15)
And then you have sick time provided to allow employees to with one two and three I assume that that wording has been vetted with

[Speaker 1] (2:19:15 - 2:19:19)
you know, paid family leave and all of the requirements in Massachusetts now,

[Speaker 4] (2:19:19 - 2:19:20)
right? Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:20 - 2:19:23)
Okay, so end of sick leave. This is my biggest,

[Speaker 4] (2:19:23 - 2:19:23)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:23 - 2:19:38)
my biggest issue. So this basically enables every single town employee to have what's called sick leave buyback in their contract. That is costly and that is not standard,

[Speaker 1] (2:19:38 - 2:19:41)
right? It it it could certainly

[Speaker 1] (2:19:42 - 2:19:51)
You know, we put a cap of eighty five hundred dollars a person, but it is not standard for every single employee to be given sick leave buyback.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:52 - 2:20:04)
That's often negotiated in union contracts, right, that's always a provision in there that you know is a give and take, right. A lot of people on administration side will try to get that out of any union contract because it's so expensive.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:05 - 2:20:09)
But this is also the place where we have to consider putting something in.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:10 - 2:20:14)
that prevents people from calling in sick for fifty days before they retire

[Speaker 2] (2:20:15 - 2:20:15)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:15 - 2:20:16)
or before they leave employment.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:17 - 2:20:19)
Right, that is to me crucial.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:20 - 2:20:20)
Right, because what

[Speaker 1] (2:20:20 - 2:20:26)
And it speaks to what we're our budget in terms of what we're y do you understand like the connection there is huge.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:26 - 2:20:26)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:20:27 - 2:20:27)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:28 - 2:20:31)
The way we put it in is the buyback. I've had employees,

[Speaker 2] (2:20:31 - 2:20:37)
DPW mind you, saying wait a minute I'm not trying to use these because this comes out to way more than the eighty five hundred

[Speaker 1] (2:20:37 - 2:20:37)
Sure,

[Speaker 2] (2:20:37 - 2:20:37)
dollars.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:37 - 2:20:42)
I'm sure they do. And those are union employees, so they're in a whole separate situation, right?

[Speaker 1] (2:20:42 - 2:20:48)
Because they're covered by a CBA, this is really just speaking to everybody else that's not covered by a CBA.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:48 - 2:20:48)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:20:49 - 2:20:50)
I know.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:50 - 2:20:52)
It's just not really co-

[Speaker 1] (2:20:52 - 2:21:02)
commonplace for people that are not CBA employees to have sick leave buyback. It's it's very much a bargaining chip it always is in any union co it's

[Speaker 3] (2:21:02 - 2:21:02)
It's

[Speaker 1] (2:21:02 - 2:21:02)
expensive.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:02 - 2:21:04)
usually you just give up your sick time. You leave,

[Speaker 3] (2:21:04 - 2:21:05)
for whatever reason,

[Speaker 3] (2:21:05 - 2:21:05)
you're correct.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:05 - 2:21:05)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:05 - 2:21:07)
You give up your sick time, period,

[Speaker 1] (2:21:07 - 2:21:07)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (2:21:07 - 2:21:07)
right?

[Speaker 1] (2:21:07 - 2:21:08)
exactly.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:08 - 2:21:08)
Not

[Speaker 1] (2:21:08 - 2:21:08)
You

[Speaker 2] (2:21:08 - 2:21:08)
too

[Speaker 1] (2:21:08 - 2:21:08)
get

[Speaker 2] (2:21:08 - 2:21:08)
bad.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:08 - 2:21:09)
paid out on your vacation.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:09 - 2:21:12)
You only on retirement do you get the buyback.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:12 - 2:21:12)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:12 - 2:21:12)
Ah.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:13 - 2:21:14)
Strictly on retirement.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:14 - 2:21:18)
We have to pay for any unused vacation time. That's the law. But sick leave

[Speaker 1] (2:21:19 - 2:21:23)
You you don't you lose it right You same with personal time.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:23 - 2:21:32)
Yeah, I think this 8500 is a little bit of a red herring though, because if I'm understanding this correctly, you can only use up to thirty days, and you only get twenty percent of that.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:33 - 2:21:35)
No, they have to have at least thirty days accrued

[Speaker 2] (2:21:35 - 2:21:35)
True.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:35 - 2:21:36)
to even tap into Oh, it.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:36 - 2:21:38)
thank you. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:38 - 2:21:40)
Yeah, they can receive twenty percent of their total bank

[Speaker 2] (2:21:40 - 2:21:41)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:41 - 2:21:41)
Right. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:41 - 2:21:43)
up to a max of eighty five,

[Speaker 2] (2:21:43 - 2:21:43)
Gotcha. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:43 - 2:21:44)
which is

[Speaker 6] (2:21:44 - 2:21:44)
8500

[Speaker 1] (2:21:44 - 2:21:45)
if they don't have thirty days,

[Speaker 6] (2:21:45 - 2:21:45)
is the

[Speaker 1] (2:21:45 - 2:21:45)
they're not even

[Speaker 1] (2:21:45 - 2:21:47)
It's not even an option for them.

[Speaker 7] (2:21:47 - 2:21:50)
You have to have been employed for as long as Chino to get Right, to that.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:50 - 2:21:50)
right.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:50 - 2:21:55)
Yeah, she was three sick days in twenty two years, so I think I have twenty nine hundred sick hours stored.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:55 - 2:21:56)
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 3] (2:21:56 - 2:21:59)
Oh so this might be a little relevant this provision.

[Speaker 2] (2:21:59 - 2:21:59)
I would think so.

[Speaker 7] (2:21:59 - 2:22:00)
Might be, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:22:00 - 2:22:02)
Oh, your contract's different, right, so that's

[Speaker 2] (2:22:03 - 2:22:06)
I don't think there's any mention in the contracts about I think it's

[Speaker 1] (2:22:06 - 2:22:09)
You know, there are currently one day per month, right, so twelve days a year.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:09 - 2:22:11)
I think it's one and a quarter days per month.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:11 - 2:22:12)
Um

[Speaker 1] (2:22:13 - 2:22:21)
I think it says on page 31, town shall accrue sick leave at the rate of one day per month for each month of full-time service.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:21 - 2:22:24)
That's interesting. Okay, that would be a change from the policy right now.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:25 - 2:22:28)
All town employees right in the town hall are getting one and a quarter.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:28 - 2:22:30)
Oh, then that's not that's incorrect here then.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:30 - 2:22:33)
Yep. So you'd have to change it.

[Speaker 7] (2:22:33 - 2:22:40)
So it's one and a quarter? Well, I pulled it actually out of the old policy and matched it, but it is accruing at one and a quarter. I think you're right.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:40 - 2:22:40)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:41 - 2:22:43)
Okay, so that's that's fifteen days a year then.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:43 - 2:22:44)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:44 - 2:22:46)
So that's that's not correct here.

[Speaker 2] (2:22:46 - 2:22:46)
Which is steep.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:49 - 2:22:51)
Okay, so that's an edit that has to happen.

[Speaker 8] (2:22:51 - 2:22:55)
So one problem you have though, you know there are pros and cons on this.

[Speaker 8] (2:22:56 - 2:23:03)
For so you'll find employees just, you know, finding that they have to take their sick days, you gotta take my sick days.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:03 - 2:23:03)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:03 - 2:23:09)
I always like it where you you say here here you're s you get X_ amount of sick days.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:09 - 2:23:13)
And at the end of the year, if you don't use your sick days,

[Speaker 2] (2:23:14 - 2:23:14)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:14 - 2:23:15)
we turn around.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:15 - 2:23:16)
No, I never,

[Speaker 7] (2:23:16 - 2:23:16)
Sick leave instead of

[Speaker 8] (2:23:16 - 2:23:20)
I never lose it. I buy it, I buy it out. But you cannot come to work sick.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:21 - 2:23:24)
Like if you come to work sick, that's pretty serious.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:24 - 2:23:26)
That's very subjective, how do you define

[Speaker 8] (2:23:26 - 2:23:26)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:26 - 2:23:27)
sick, right?

[Speaker 8] (2:23:27 - 2:23:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:23:27 - 2:23:28)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 2] (2:23:28 - 2:23:32)
Right, but you're right, 'cause when in the T_ old T_P_W_ contract they used to be a sick

[Speaker 1] (2:23:32 - 2:23:32)
Sick

[Speaker 2] (2:23:32 - 2:23:32)
leave

[Speaker 1] (2:23:32 - 2:23:33)
leave incentive,

[Speaker 2] (2:23:33 - 2:23:33)
incentive in

[Speaker 1] (2:23:33 - 2:23:34)
yeah. And it's

[Speaker 2] (2:23:34 - 2:23:35)
some of the which

[Speaker 1] (2:23:35 - 2:23:35)
typically

[Speaker 2] (2:23:35 - 2:23:35)
that

[Speaker 1] (2:23:35 - 2:23:37)
so small that no one wants to even consider it.

[Speaker 2] (2:23:37 - 2:23:47)
unless they get to it was every six months, if you're at five months and twenty eight days, I've seen guys coming in a wheelchair, not really psyched, you know what I'm saying 'cause they don't wanna lose that.

[Speaker 3] (2:23:48 - 2:23:48)
sick incentive

[Speaker 1] (2:23:49 - 2:23:59)
Well, you know, if you're if you look at your population and you find that people calling out sick is a a hindrance to your budget, right, then you would enact something you would implement something like a sick leave incentive,

[Speaker 1] (2:23:59 - 2:24:01)
if you find that people are calling in sick a lot,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:01 - 2:24:05)
you're getting, you know, having to pay other people to fill the jobs or whatever,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:05 - 2:24:07)
then sick leave incentive makes sense,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:07 - 2:24:11)
right? But you have to make it palatable enough that people want to take advantage.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:11 - 2:24:14)
Right, like how do you how do you punish a healthy, you know, somebody

[Speaker 8] (2:24:16 - 2:24:16)
I I

[Speaker 7] (2:24:16 - 2:24:17)
Really?

[Speaker 8] (2:24:17 - 2:24:27)
don't know I guess it's it's a it's the way I do it you know in a smaller business, if I just I consider it time off. It's your time, I don't care what you're doing with it. But

[Speaker 3] (2:24:27 - 2:24:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:27 - 2:24:32)
if if you don't you don't use it at the end of the year I You just lose it.

[Speaker 7] (2:24:32 - 2:24:32)
it.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:32 - 2:24:34)
pop it out. No, I don't lose it, I pay

[Speaker 8] (2:24:34 - 2:24:35)
You pay out sick time.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:35 - 2:24:36)
I pay out sick time.

[Speaker 7] (2:24:36 - 2:24:37)
The rules

[Speaker 3] (2:24:37 - 2:24:37)
Wow.

[Speaker 7] (2:24:37 - 2:24:43)
have changed quite a bit for sick time now too because actually I wanted to, I didn't say something I wanted to in the paragraph above the end of sick leave,

[Speaker 7] (2:24:44 - 2:24:47)
you're now allowed to use it in ways you didn't used to be able to.

[Speaker 7] (2:24:48 - 2:24:55)
So if you have a family member or somebody that is sick, you can take time off to care for that person and use your sick time for that.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:55 - 2:24:55)
Yes.

[Speaker 7] (2:24:55 - 2:25:00)
One of the recommendations was there should be a cap on how much.

[Speaker 8] (2:25:01 - 2:25:01)
Mm You-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (2:25:01 - 2:25:06)
can take during that time, 'cause someone who also has a lot saved could be like

[Speaker 2] (2:25:07 - 2:25:08)
See if I have

[Speaker 7] (2:25:08 - 2:25:08)
I'm

[Speaker 2] (2:25:08 - 2:25:09)
any off other questions.

[Speaker 7] (2:25:09 - 2:25:09)
for six months.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:09 - 2:25:13)
Well, that's where FMLA comes into play also, right? So if you have someone take looking to take

[Speaker 1] (2:25:14 - 2:25:16)
a s significant block of time,

[Speaker 7] (2:25:16 - 2:25:16)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:16 - 2:25:20)
you require doctor documentation, there I mean there's more

[Speaker 7] (2:25:20 - 2:25:20)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:25:20 - 2:25:20)
of a right

[Speaker 7] (2:25:20 - 2:25:24)
our FMLA is unpaid, so we don't Do participate.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:24 - 2:25:26)
we allow utilisation of sick time though?

[Speaker 7] (2:25:26 - 2:25:26)
Yeah, you

[Speaker 8] (2:25:26 - 2:25:27)
Well, the the the other

[Speaker 7] (2:25:27 - 2:25:27)
use thing your paid.

[Speaker 8] (2:25:27 - 2:25:29)
is it's a liability fro

[Speaker 8] (2:25:29 - 2:25:32)
as far as I'm concerned, it's a liability for that year.

[Speaker 7] (2:25:32 - 2:25:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:25:32 - 2:25:42)
So it's really should be on that year's budget. So if because what happens is if people aren't touching it, so if I go X amount of years without touching it,

[Speaker 7] (2:25:42 - 2:25:42)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:25:42 - 2:25:57)
now you're going to pay me out at a much higher rate later on, even twenty percent or not, you pay me at a higher rate later on. And it was really a liability for multiple years previous. So and we're not putting money away each year into a

[Speaker 7] (2:25:57 - 2:25:58)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:25:58 - 2:25:58)
Typically

[Speaker 7] (2:25:58 - 2:25:58)
should anything

[Speaker 1] (2:25:58 - 2:26:02)
municipalities have a spreadsheet where it's sick leave liability. So every

[Speaker 7] (2:26:02 - 2:26:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:02 - 2:26:10)
year the Finance Director or the town accountant processes what if everyone were to quit tomorrow and has X number of days,

[Speaker 8] (2:26:10 - 2:26:10)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:10 - 2:26:13)
what the potential liability would be to that town.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:13 - 2:26:15)
So you always know what potential exposure you have.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:15 - 2:26:16)
Mm hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:16 - 2:26:17)
I don't think we have that.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:17 - 2:26:17)
We don't have that.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:17 - 2:26:18)
We should have that.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:18 - 2:26:21)
We've tried to have it for years,

[Speaker 8] (2:26:21 - 2:26:21)
but we don't have it.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:21 - 2:26:22)
So

[Speaker 3] (2:26:22 - 2:26:24)
I think if I'm following this right, and I feel like

[Speaker 3] (2:26:26 - 2:26:34)
in a way we're kind of, you know, because you're an HR professional or getting into the weeds at a level that but I'm it's way beyond me, but it feels like

[Speaker 3] (2:26:35 - 2:26:46)
this end of sick leave provision is somewhat of a compromise, right? It's putting kind of a cap and a buffer. It's not you're not paying all of it out, you're not paying none of it out.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:46 - 2:26:46)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:26:46 - 2:26:50)
If you end up you've got a lot saved up, well basically

[Speaker 3] (2:26:52 - 2:26:54)
You've been a good employee. You've been coming to work, right,

[Speaker 8] (2:26:54 - 2:26:54)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:26:54 - 2:26:54)
you haven't

[Speaker 1] (2:26:54 - 2:26:54)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:26:54 - 2:26:55)
missed a lot of sick

[Speaker 8] (2:26:55 - 2:26:55)
time, Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:55 - 2:26:55)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:26:55 - 2:26:58)
so we wanna reward you to some degree,

[Speaker 1] (2:26:58 - 2:26:58)
You might

[Speaker 3] (2:26:58 - 2:26:58)
but

[Speaker 1] (2:26:58 - 2:26:58)
get some

[Speaker 3] (2:26:58 - 2:26:58)
we're not

[Speaker 1] (2:26:58 - 2:26:58)
lower

[Speaker 3] (2:26:58 - 2:26:59)
gonna pay it all

[Speaker 1] (2:26:59 - 2:26:59)
in your

[Speaker 3] (2:26:59 - 2:26:59)
out.

[Speaker 7] (2:26:59 - 2:26:59)
rate. Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:26:59 - 2:27:02)
So it maybe it's already kind of finding that middle ground.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:02 - 2:27:05)
And you might keep it. Maybe you keep it and you lower it a little. Who

[Speaker 3] (2:27:05 - 2:27:05)
Or

[Speaker 1] (2:27:05 - 2:27:05)
not,

[Speaker 3] (2:27:05 - 2:27:05)
maybe there's

[Speaker 1] (2:27:05 - 2:27:05)
you a know.

[Speaker 3] (2:27:05 - 2:27:06)
cap on it, you

[Speaker 1] (2:27:06 - 2:27:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:27:06 - 2:27:10)
know, like we're not gonna pay Gino out for twenty nine hundred hours, right? I know, I'm just joking.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:10 - 2:27:11)
Right, that's.

[Speaker 3] (2:27:11 - 2:27:11)
Um

[Speaker 3] (2:27:13 - 2:27:13)
Um

[Speaker 2] (2:27:13 - 2:27:17)
I've always said I just use it as an insurance policy anyways. That's how my guy, everyone says

[Speaker 2] (2:27:17 - 2:27:20)
You're a fool not to use your sick time, and I've always said, listen,

[Speaker 2] (2:27:20 - 2:27:22)
I buy homeowners insurance,

[Speaker 2] (2:27:22 - 2:27:28)
I buy automobile insurance, and I hope I don't need either one of those every year, but in the case I ever do get sick.

[Speaker 2] (2:27:28 - 2:27:30)
Well, please knock on wood, I don't need it. You

[Speaker 1] (2:27:30 - 2:27:31)
can And

[Speaker 2] (2:27:31 - 2:27:31)
have all it, you

[Speaker 1] (2:27:31 - 2:27:31)
of this is

[Speaker 2] (2:27:31 - 2:27:31)
can have

[Speaker 1] (2:27:31 - 2:27:31)
part

[Speaker 2] (2:27:31 - 2:27:31)
it

[Speaker 1] (2:27:31 - 2:27:32)
of

[Speaker 2] (2:27:32 - 2:27:32)
back.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:32 - 2:27:35)
a bigger benefits package, right? You have to think about how it all complements one another.

[Speaker 7] (2:27:35 - 2:27:36)
Mm

[Speaker 1] (2:27:36 - 2:27:36)
So

[Speaker 7] (2:27:36 - 2:27:36)
-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:36 - 2:27:44)
if you're going to be lean on sick time or lean on vacation and you're paying higher salary, higher basis, then you can understand, you know, you can appreciate that exchange.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:44 - 2:27:46)
But if you're not, right,

[Speaker 1] (2:27:46 - 2:27:49)
so maybe you're a little bit more lenient on the vacation and the personal, like.

[Speaker 2] (2:27:50 - 2:27:57)
I don't know how many people have retired from the town of Swans in the last twenty two years I've been here. I think most people just leave to move on to other opportunities.

[Speaker 8] (2:27:57 - 2:27:59)
Right, that's the other question is how many people really even use

[Speaker 2] (2:27:59 - 2:28:06)
this. Exactly. And they leave, you know, last bunch of people that left it, you know, that's the risk you're taking, 'cause you're not retiring.

[Speaker 8] (2:28:06 - 2:28:08)
Right. Hmm. Good point.

[Speaker 3] (2:28:09 - 2:28:09)
So

[Speaker 3] (2:28:12 - 2:28:18)
Where are we landing on this? I mean I I'd I'd I'd be interested to know whether anyone else has kind of a a cap.

[Speaker 7] (2:28:18 - 2:28:20)
They do, they all it's they all everybody

[Speaker 3] (2:28:20 - 2:28:24)
That's that's the only thing I would I would kind of my very amateur knowledge

[Speaker 1] (2:28:24 - 2:28:25)
School department

[Speaker 3] (2:28:25 - 2:28:25)
in a way

[Speaker 1] (2:28:25 - 2:28:25)
does

[Speaker 3] (2:28:25 - 2:28:25)
like

[Speaker 1] (2:28:25 - 2:28:26)
as add well.

[Speaker 3] (2:28:26 - 2:28:26)
to that is

[Speaker 1] (2:28:26 - 2:28:28)
Because they have the same provision for a lot of theirs.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:28 - 2:28:30)
So the school department has

[Speaker 3] (2:28:30 - 2:28:30)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:31 - 2:28:41)
Depending on their collective bargaining agreements some of their teachers have this provision. They outlawed it a long time ago. So now new teachers coming in do not have sick leave buy-back capability.

[Speaker 2] (2:28:41 - 2:28:41)
No.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:41 - 2:28:44)
They get some other benefit in lieu of that.

[Speaker 2] (2:28:44 - 2:28:44)
Oh.

[Speaker 7] (2:28:44 - 2:28:49)
Some of the but so the teachers also have though I think they allow the unions to have like a sick pool where they can

[Speaker 2] (2:28:50 - 2:28:50)
Correct.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:50 - 2:28:51)
sick time in and let other

[Speaker 2] (2:28:51 - 2:28:51)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:51 - 2:28:52)
people use it that might

[Speaker 2] (2:28:52 - 2:28:53)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:53 - 2:28:54)
come down and not have enough sick

[Speaker 2] (2:28:54 - 2:28:54)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:54 - 2:28:59)
time. But some of the towns that I did the comparison with also did like a maximum

[Speaker 2] (2:28:59 - 2:28:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:59 - 2:29:01)
amount of days you could accumulate,

[Speaker 2] (2:29:01 - 2:29:02)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:02 - 2:29:03)
they had like a cut off.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:03 - 2:29:05)
It's almost always twenty percent.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:05 - 2:29:05)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:05 - 2:29:09)
I've never seen a town give more than twenty percent of your available sick balance.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:09 - 2:29:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:09 - 2:29:10)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (2:29:10 - 2:29:10)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:10 - 2:29:11)
that's a pretty standard number.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:12 - 2:29:14)
Right, I was saying captain. The captain's already in there. It's eighty

[Speaker 2] (2:29:14 - 2:29:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:14 - 2:29:14)
five hundred, right?

[Speaker 1] (2:29:14 - 2:29:15)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:15 - 2:29:15)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:15 - 2:29:15)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:15 - 2:29:16)
So

[Speaker 2] (2:29:16 - 2:29:16)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:29:16 - 2:29:16)
it

[Speaker 2] (2:29:16 - 2:29:16)
it might

[Speaker 1] (2:29:16 - 2:29:16)
was whether

[Speaker 2] (2:29:16 - 2:29:17)
not include

[Speaker 1] (2:29:17 - 2:29:17)
or not keep

[Speaker 2] (2:29:17 - 2:29:17)
it.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:17 - 2:29:26)
it or lower it or whatever with it. And I mean we could probably run a report I would imagine that could show on average how many years,

[Speaker 2] (2:29:26 - 2:29:26)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:26 - 2:29:32)
like every year, like for the past five years, how much in sick pay have we paid out to a non-union town employee.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:32 - 2:29:33)
I would think

[Speaker 4] (2:29:33 - 2:29:33)
I'm it's talking about

[Speaker 2] (2:29:33 - 2:29:33)
six.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:33 - 2:29:34)
one person a year or something.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:34 - 2:29:37)
Is it yeah, it I mean 'cause they have to retire I don't forget.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:37 - 2:29:37)
Less less than one

[Speaker 1] (2:29:37 - 2:29:38)
Less.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:38 - 2:29:38)
per person

[Speaker 2] (2:29:38 - 2:29:38)
receive a year. employment.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:38 - 2:29:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:38 - 2:29:39)
One person

[Speaker 5] (2:29:39 - 2:29:40)
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:40 - 2:29:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:29:40 - 2:29:40)
Right?

[Speaker 2] (2:29:40 - 2:29:42)
They have to actually retire.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:42 - 2:29:45)
I was trying to pick the lowest number, but I guess it could be lower than one.

[Speaker 7] (2:29:48 - 2:29:49)
So what are we doing with this, Doug?

[Speaker 4] (2:29:50 - 2:29:51)
Uh I think

[Speaker 2] (2:29:51 - 2:29:52)
Maybe we move on to personal time.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:52 - 2:29:54)
we're we're leaving it as is unless

[Speaker 7] (2:29:54 - 2:29:54)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:54 - 2:29:56)
Mary Ann comes back with something better.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:58 - 2:30:01)
I would suggest personal time we reduce to three days, five.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:03 - 2:30:04)
Three days is the standard.

[Speaker 7] (2:30:06 - 2:30:07)
That is

[Speaker 7] (2:30:07 - 2:30:08)
what I notice.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:08 - 2:30:12)
We're currently giving five full days, so for a full timer it's a full week's pay

[Speaker 2] (2:30:12 - 2:30:12)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:30:12 - 2:30:12)
and

[Speaker 2] (2:30:12 - 2:30:13)
we'll

[Speaker 1] (2:30:13 - 2:30:13)
it's

[Speaker 2] (2:30:13 - 2:30:13)
have a

[Speaker 1] (2:30:13 - 2:30:13)
not

[Speaker 2] (2:30:13 - 2:30:13)
week of vacation.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:13 - 2:30:13)
typical.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:14 - 2:30:14)
The

[Speaker 7] (2:30:17 - 2:30:18)
The purpose of personal

[Speaker 4] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
In your

[Speaker 7] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
leave is

[Speaker 4] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
experience,

[Speaker 7] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
not

[Speaker 4] (2:30:18 - 2:30:20)
in the comps, was three.

[Speaker 7] (2:30:20 - 2:30:21)
Three.

[Speaker 7] (2:30:21 - 2:30:22)
Three

[Speaker 2] (2:30:22 - 2:30:22)
It

[Speaker 7] (2:30:22 - 2:30:22)
with

[Speaker 2] (2:30:22 - 2:30:22)
was

[Speaker 7] (2:30:22 - 2:30:23)
corporate world,

[Speaker 2] (2:30:23 - 2:30:23)
three, three,

[Speaker 7] (2:30:23 - 2:30:23)
three municipalities.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:23 - 2:30:24)
three.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:24 - 2:30:27)
Three with a majority.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:40 - 2:30:42)
Have they has KP Law looked at the comp time piece?

[Speaker 1] (2:30:44 - 2:30:45)
What in what way?

[Speaker 2] (2:30:45 - 2:30:48)
Uh the definition and how they can use it within the

[Speaker 1] (2:30:48 - 2:30:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:48 - 2:30:48)
stock Oh, time.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:48 - 2:30:51)
yeah. We went back and forth with that. We have a little forum.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:52 - 2:30:52)
Fairly

[Speaker 1] (2:30:52 - 2:30:52)
Comp time

[Speaker 2] (2:30:52 - 2:30:52)
legal.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:52 - 2:30:59)
technically for exempt employees are for salaried employees is not typical.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:59 - 2:30:59)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:59 - 2:31:03)
It's a nice to have and we sort of have it have had it in place.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:04 - 2:31:16)
Um we have a little forum that it basically they uh anyone can i if we really utilise it for department heads more than anybody, because for most part it's the department head that's required to stick around for meetings.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:16 - 2:31:29)
Um so it was kind of built in so there wasn't a burn out. If you could flex your schedule in the week, you flex it with the form though, so there's a paper trail and you have signatures signed off on it, the town administrator, HR, and your department head if you're not it.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:30 - 2:31:34)
Um and if you can't flex your time in that week,

[Speaker 1] (2:31:34 - 2:31:43)
you could ask for some comp time to be used at a later date. Has to be used within thirty days. Can't be more than a week's worth of comp time.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:44 - 2:31:46)
And it's again to sort of stop the burnout.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:46 - 2:32:01)
Some departments have way more meetings than others, they'll have them every single night, going going going, and there's sort of a unspoken rule of it's expected to work an additional two hours in the week, so when you go past thirty six hours, you can utilise the form for flex time or comp time.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:01 - 2:32:06)
An employee can request to not have comp time and get paid out on the time that they're required.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:07 - 2:32:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:07 - 2:32:07)
Hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:07 - 2:32:09)
See, that's where it they

[Speaker 4] (2:32:09 - 2:32:09)
The agreement

[Speaker 2] (2:32:09 - 2:32:09)
legally

[Speaker 4] (2:32:09 - 2:32:09)
ends.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:10 - 2:32:10)
Well

[Speaker 1] (2:32:10 - 2:32:11)
When you're salaried, no.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:11 - 2:32:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:12 - 2:32:16)
I mean this policy doesn't even need to exist for salaried employees. It's just sort of expected

[Speaker 2] (2:32:16 - 2:32:17)
It's expected.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:17 - 2:32:19)
that if you know you got to work more, you got to work more.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:19 - 2:32:20)
That's a nice to have.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:20 - 2:32:22)
Right. But it has to be clearly defined.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:22 - 2:32:23)
It's a perk.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:23 - 2:32:38)
Right. I I it's yeah. It's one of those things. Comp time is the way I've always thought about it is is not really it's not frowned upon but you can get yourself into trouble with it if it's not clearly defined. Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:38 - 2:32:47)
Right, and if your people are not using it within say the week, right and that happens a lot. You recruit comp time this week, you don't use it that week, you carry it over, you keep a log,

[Speaker 2] (2:32:47 - 2:32:51)
that type of stuff gets very difficult to manage, right, 'cause who is this log going to?

[Speaker 4] (2:32:51 - 2:32:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:51 - 2:32:53)
He has approved it. Who knows

[Speaker 1] (2:32:53 - 2:32:53)
It's

[Speaker 2] (2:32:53 - 2:32:53)
what?

[Speaker 1] (2:32:53 - 2:33:02)
all electronic. It's in our time and attendance system, and I'm the one who adds it in, so I can see where people are and I recently had to go to somebody and say you're at your max, you can't bank anymore.

[Speaker 2] (2:33:02 - 2:33:02)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:33:02 - 2:33:03)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:33:03 - 2:33:03)
we're

[Speaker 1] (2:33:03 - 2:33:03)
start using

[Speaker 2] (2:33:03 - 2:33:03)
I mean we're

[Speaker 1] (2:33:03 - 2:33:03)
it.

[Speaker 2] (2:33:03 - 2:33:06)
doing it the right way, but it's just one of those policies that can get

[Speaker 7] (2:33:06 - 2:33:09)
Well is it approved beforehand or do people just

[Speaker 1] (2:33:10 - 2:33:11)
let's say I'm using

[Speaker 2] (2:33:11 - 2:33:13)
I'm in and say hey I happen to use comp

[Speaker 1] (2:33:13 - 2:33:17)
No, that's where we put the form in. There was a little bit of an abuse system going

[Speaker 2] (2:33:17 - 2:33:17)
Oh you're

[Speaker 1] (2:33:17 - 2:33:17)
on.

[Speaker 2] (2:33:17 - 2:33:17)
kidding

[Speaker 1] (2:33:17 - 2:33:29)
Um yeah, there was just a no rhyme or reason to it. So we Amy had had an old form kicking around that we updated together and sent it all out to all the department heads. So now they they bring it to me.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:30 - 2:33:36)
Like you can look at your week and say oh look at all the meetings I have because most the time they don't sneak up on you so I

[Speaker 7] (2:33:36 - 2:33:36)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:33:36 - 2:33:36)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:36 - 2:33:44)
I'm gonna be working 44 hours this week and I'm so busy I don't think I can flex at all this week so I'm gonna put in and ask for comp.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:44 - 2:34:04)
they'll leave it sitting I have a spot on my desk and at the end of the week they'll come update it and be like oh that meeting didn't last that long or whatever and they kind of update the form. Then I bring them all to Gino at the end of the week so that he's not getting bothered all day long by different forms to sign and I have him look through them all and he signs them then. Once he's approved them, I input the information.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:06 - 2:34:10)
But every, it goes into every employee's file, so there's a paper trail.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:10 - 2:34:15)
But I would think comp time really makes sense for s especially for situations like our elections.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:16 - 2:34:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:16 - 2:34:23)
And you know I would think that having them make it up the following week is a little bit tough because

[Speaker 2] (2:34:23 - 2:34:23)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:23 - 2:34:29)
there's a lot of hours that have to go into the elections, preparation for it, then there's a lot of hours that have to go into um closing out the elections.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:29 - 2:34:31)
So I would I would just think

[Speaker 7] (2:34:32 - 2:34:34)
Having comp time later,

[Speaker 7] (2:34:35 - 2:34:35)
at later

[Speaker 2] (2:34:35 - 2:34:35)
Then

[Speaker 7] (2:34:35 - 2:34:36)
in the you season.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:36 - 2:34:38)
get into the case of forgetting about it. Well,

[Speaker 7] (2:34:38 - 2:34:38)
Well, if it's

[Speaker 2] (2:34:38 - 2:34:40)
if not, then you're going to bank it all up and use it all at once

[Speaker 7] (2:34:40 - 2:34:44)
if it's logged in, if it's logged in electronically and people are monitoring it.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:44 - 2:34:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:45 - 2:34:46)
I don't know. These

[Speaker 1] (2:34:46 - 2:34:46)
It's

[Speaker 7] (2:34:46 - 2:34:46)
would

[Speaker 1] (2:34:46 - 2:34:46)
logged

[Speaker 7] (2:34:46 - 2:34:46)
monitor

[Speaker 1] (2:34:46 - 2:34:46)
in.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:46 - 2:34:47)
it.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:47 - 2:34:48)
It's easy to see.

[Speaker 7] (2:34:49 - 2:34:49)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:49 - 2:34:51)
Every employee can log into themselves to see what they have.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:52 - 2:34:53)
You know the time.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:58 - 2:35:03)
I mean I know that we need to be careful but we also need to be uh efficient with our time here. Otherwise you know Patrick's

[Speaker 7] (2:35:03 - 2:35:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:03 - 2:35:04)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:04 - 2:35:05)
gonna be asking for a lot of comp time

[Speaker 1] (2:35:05 - 2:35:06)
Just so you know

[Speaker 4] (2:35:06 - 2:35:06)
for

[Speaker 1] (2:35:06 - 2:35:06)
personal

[Speaker 4] (2:35:06 - 2:35:07)
sitting here on their

[Speaker 7] (2:35:07 - 2:35:07)
Patrick's

[Speaker 1] (2:35:07 - 2:35:07)
personal time.

[Speaker 7] (2:35:07 - 2:35:08)
going to be counting as comp time.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:08 - 2:35:09)
For Patrick.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:09 - 2:35:10)
For Pat right?

[Speaker 1] (2:35:10 - 2:35:17)
Personal time is granted at the beginning of every year. So it it drops into the bucket at the beginning of the calendar year.

[Speaker 7] (2:35:17 - 2:35:17)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:17 - 2:35:25)
It's the way we've been doing it. So everybody's got their thirty four hours for the year already for this year. So if we make a change, it would be starting

[Speaker 7] (2:35:25 - 2:35:25)
Perhaps.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:25 - 2:35:26)
next

[Speaker 8] (2:35:26 - 2:35:26)
Start

[Speaker 1] (2:35:26 - 2:35:26)
year.

[Speaker 8] (2:35:26 - 2:35:27)
fiscal year twenty seven.

[Speaker 8] (2:35:27 - 2:35:28)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:28 - 2:35:29)
Calendar year.

[Speaker 7] (2:35:29 - 2:35:31)
Calendar year twenty six. So it's three personal days?

[Speaker 2] (2:35:31 - 2:35:32)
Starting January.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:32 - 2:35:32)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:35:32 - 2:35:32)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (2:35:32 - 2:35:32)
okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:32 - 2:35:33)
is what we're

[Speaker 4] (2:35:33 - 2:35:33)
Gotcha.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:33 - 2:35:33)
switching.

[Speaker 7] (2:35:33 - 2:35:34)
Three personal days?

[Speaker 4] (2:35:34 - 2:35:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:36 - 2:35:38)
Alright, so are we doing

[Speaker 7] (2:35:38 - 2:35:38)
That's any really

[Speaker 4] (2:35:38 - 2:35:39)
comp time or not?

[Speaker 2] (2:35:39 - 2:35:40)
I mean,

[Speaker 4] (2:35:40 - 2:35:40)
I

[Speaker 2] (2:35:40 - 2:35:40)
I think

[Speaker 4] (2:35:40 - 2:35:40)
think I've got

[Speaker 2] (2:35:40 - 2:35:40)
the

[Speaker 4] (2:35:40 - 2:35:41)
a great

[Speaker 2] (2:35:41 - 2:35:41)
way

[Speaker 4] (2:35:41 - 2:35:41)
system.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:41 - 2:35:42)
we track it is pretty good.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:42 - 2:35:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:42 - 2:35:43)
So

[Speaker 4] (2:35:43 - 2:35:43)
Yep, okay.

[Speaker 7] (2:35:44 - 2:35:45)
So we're not touching comp time, right?

[Speaker 1] (2:35:47 - 2:35:49)
It's a helpful perk when we're talking to outside

[Speaker 2] (2:35:49 - 2:35:50)
Yeah, of course.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:50 - 2:35:51)
candidates. They appreciate.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:51 - 2:35:52)
Absolutely true.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:54 - 2:35:55)
I didn't really have anything,

[Speaker 2] (2:35:56 - 2:35:58)
I mean, other pressing.

[Speaker 2] (2:35:59 - 2:35:59)
Those were my big issues.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:04 - 2:36:08)
I don't know if you want to, because we're going to do this again, if you want to spend your own time.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:09 - 2:36:23)
I know you have don't have tons of free time reading through this because they did give you on it was April second if you want to research when that email came through. I gave you a Word document to this if you wanted to make some edits or ask some questions or just shoot me an email separately.

[Speaker 2] (2:36:26 - 2:36:33)
I mean I think it's re it it's actually really well done but those are just and it wasn't it's just policy things that I had. So

[Speaker 2] (2:36:42 - 2:36:44)
Do you also have the piece for

[Speaker 2] (2:36:46 - 2:36:53)
Okay so you do have the acknowledgement form. Do you also have the piece do you have the selectboard handbook? No, you just this is just the employee

[Speaker 1] (2:36:53 - 2:36:53)
This

[Speaker 2] (2:36:53 - 2:36:54)
handbook.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:54 - 2:36:55)
is for all non-union employees.

[Speaker 2] (2:36:55 - 2:36:59)
Right, but do you have you don't have a copy of the selectboard one because we were working on that.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:59 - 2:37:00)
No.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:00 - 2:37:01)
You have that okay.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:01 - 2:37:02)
And I could share it.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:02 - 2:37:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:03 - 2:37:05)
You mean to compare something or

[Speaker 2] (2:37:06 - 2:37:08)
No, I just wanted to know if that You was correct.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:08 - 2:37:08)
worried about

[Speaker 4] (2:37:08 - 2:37:08)
No.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:08 - 2:37:09)
comp time?

[Speaker 2] (2:37:11 - 2:37:16)
Listen here. This this uh unpaid position that we all engage in. No, I'm not worried.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:18 - 2:37:18)
Um

[Speaker 4] (2:37:18 - 2:37:19)
We'll pay you out at the end, okay?

[Speaker 2] (2:37:19 - 2:37:19)
Thank

[Speaker 4] (2:37:19 - 2:37:20)
When

[Speaker 2] (2:37:20 - 2:37:20)
you.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:20 - 2:37:20)
you retire.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:20 - 2:37:21)
Yeah, right. Checks in the mail.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:22 - 2:37:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:26 - 2:37:37)
All right. So what's what is the plan here? 'Cause I you know, I'm in agreement with everything except for I am not in agreement with three weeks of vacation for people who just start the first and second year.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:39 - 2:37:59)
You know, we have, we're offering three days of personal time, thirteen days of holidays and then going with fifteen days of vacation, maybe I'm just a little bit, but um, you know, I think first first and second year two weeks vacation is good,

[Speaker 7] (2:38:00 - 2:38:06)
but going three weeks vacation between year one and year nine, that

[Speaker 7] (2:38:06 - 2:38:07)
That's just

[Speaker 7] (2:38:10 - 2:38:11)
It's a little much.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:12 - 2:38:15)
Well, we are cutting down the personal days potentially from five to three.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:16 - 2:38:17)
It's taking two We from there.

[Speaker 7] (2:38:17 - 2:38:18)
also just put in Juneteenth.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:19 - 2:38:20)
That's a federal

[Speaker 4] (2:38:20 - 2:38:20)
It's

[Speaker 2] (2:38:20 - 2:38:20)
holiday.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:20 - 2:38:20)
a federal holiday.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:20 - 2:38:21)
We didn't have a choice.

[Speaker 7] (2:38:21 - 2:38:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:22 - 2:38:23)
I mean, that's

[Speaker 7] (2:38:23 - 2:38:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:26 - 2:38:28)
I think this is probably where

[Speaker 4] (2:38:31 - 2:38:33)
Two tiers evolved from,

[Speaker 1] (2:38:33 - 2:38:33)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:33 - 2:38:43)
right, because when you're hiring grade four through six, actually there's much more of an expectation of getting the three weeks out of

[Speaker 7] (2:38:43 - 2:38:43)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:43 - 2:38:44)
the gate, rightly or wrongly, right.

[Speaker 3] (2:38:45 - 2:38:45)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:38:45 - 2:38:45)
And

[Speaker 2] (2:38:47 - 2:38:59)
Even if it does give the perception that we, you know, highly compensate the top tier and kind of, you know, make people on the lower end of the scale feel less than less than, let's just say that, right?

[Speaker 3] (2:39:00 - 2:39:02)
Which is, I think, why a lot of towns eliminated.

[Speaker 2] (2:39:02 - 2:39:04)
Eliminated, right. They don't do it by grading because of the

[Speaker 2] (2:39:06 - 2:39:07)
potential for that.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:08 - 2:39:15)
Alright, so what are we gonna do? Are we just gonna double check what you've sent out before and then just send back further notes and then get this on the next

[Speaker 1] (2:39:16 - 2:39:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:17 - 2:39:18)
or on a closer agenda?

[Speaker 1] (2:39:19 - 2:39:20)
Yep, next

[Speaker 3] (2:39:20 - 2:39:20)
Whoa.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:20 - 2:39:21)
agenda. And it really is

[Speaker 3] (2:39:21 - 2:39:21)
Content.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:21 - 2:39:21)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:39:22 - 2:39:22)
There

[Speaker 1] (2:39:22 - 2:39:22)
I think

[Speaker 4] (2:39:22 - 2:39:23)
almost there.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:23 - 2:39:24)
it's three things. It's the vacation,

[Speaker 4] (2:39:24 - 2:39:25)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:39:25 - 2:39:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:25 - 2:39:29)
correcting the one to the one point five and the accrual of the sick time.

[Speaker 5] (2:39:29 - 2:39:29)
One and a quarter.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:30 - 2:39:30)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:30 - 2:39:30)
One and a quarters.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:30 - 2:39:31)
On a quarter, yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:39:31 - 2:39:31)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:39:31 - 2:39:32)
Yeah, one point two five.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:32 - 2:39:35)
Um and the M_D_ note?

[Speaker 2] (2:39:35 - 2:39:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:36 - 2:39:41)
Right within the sick time and then the personal leave down to three.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:41 - 2:39:46)
And were we good with longevity? Was there any questions? I don't know why I thought there was a question on that one.

[Speaker 4] (2:39:49 - 2:39:50)
Maybe that's off the announcement.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:51 - 2:39:52)
See if I have announcements.

[Speaker 2] (2:39:52 - 2:39:54)
Pretty consistent with what Marianne sent out.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:54 - 2:39:56)
You know where that is Mary Ellen or

[Speaker 4] (2:39:56 - 2:40:01)
Oh, longevity was page twenty seven. I just for some reason thought somebody had a longevity question.

[Speaker 3] (2:40:03 - 2:40:05)
I don't have notes on the longevity question.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:06 - 2:40:06)
You don't?

[Speaker 3] (2:40:06 - 2:40:07)
No.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:07 - 2:40:07)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:40:08 - 2:40:09)
It's pretty modest.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:12 - 2:40:18)
And I just want to make sure we're really clear on the difference between regular full-time and regular part-time.

[Speaker 2] (2:40:19 - 2:40:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:30 - 2:40:34)
I think because on the regular part-time employee, it says that employee

[Speaker 1] (2:40:34 - 2:40:34)
Did you say John?

[Speaker 4] (2:40:34 - 2:40:36)
21.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:37 - 2:40:39)
Employee who has completed the initial

[Speaker 4] (2:40:40 - 2:40:48)
probation period and is regularly scheduled to work at least twenty hours per week on average over the course of an entire calendar year, but less than thirty four.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:48 - 2:40:50)
'Cause I thought that if you worked more than twenty

[Speaker 6] (2:40:50 - 2:40:52)
Oh y nineteen and a half, yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:52 - 2:40:52)
oh.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:52 - 2:40:54)
if you worked more than twenty, it

[Speaker 3] (2:40:54 - 2:40:54)
You're

[Speaker 4] (2:40:54 - 2:40:55)
put you into

[Speaker 3] (2:40:55 - 2:40:57)
your benefit eligible, but you're still part-time.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:58 - 2:40:58)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:58 - 2:40:58)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:40:59 - 2:41:01)
You're, that's what it is, you're benefit eligible. Okay.

[Speaker 6] (2:41:01 - 2:41:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:41:04 - 2:41:06)
You're fully benefit eligible, but you're only a part-time

[Speaker 4] (2:41:08 - 2:41:12)
And I I just I wanna get away from this thirty six hours a week I mean

[Speaker 1] (2:41:13 - 2:41:13)
Thirty

[Speaker 4] (2:41:13 - 2:41:13)
That's

[Speaker 1] (2:41:13 - 2:41:14)
four, you mean?

[Speaker 4] (2:41:14 - 2:41:16)
Thirty four, oh yeah, that makes me

[Speaker 6] (2:41:16 - 2:41:16)
pretty

[Speaker 4] (2:41:16 - 2:41:16)
the sound night,

[Speaker 6] (2:41:16 - 2:41:17)
like the guy do.

[Speaker 4] (2:41:17 - 2:41:18)
it's even worse.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:18 - 2:41:19)
Yeah, you do that all the time.

[Speaker 2] (2:41:19 - 2:41:20)
Did you say thirty six?

[Speaker 6] (2:41:20 - 2:41:23)
I say thirty six all the time and she has to correct me. It's thirty four.

[Speaker 2] (2:41:23 - 2:41:24)
So you want it to be thirty six?

[Speaker 2] (2:41:25 - 2:41:26)
What are you saying?

[Speaker 4] (2:41:26 - 2:41:27)
I'd like it to be forty.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:27 - 2:41:27)
Huh?

[Speaker 4] (2:41:28 - 2:41:29)
So

[Speaker 2] (2:41:30 - 2:41:31)
You wanna pay them for forty?

[Speaker 4] (2:41:31 - 2:41:32)
And then I do three weeks vacation.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:32 - 2:41:34)
Yeah, Daniel.

[Speaker 6] (2:41:34 - 2:41:34)
If

[Speaker 4] (2:41:35 - 2:41:36)
No, I just I think we should just start

[Speaker 4] (2:41:37 - 2:41:38)
Looking at that.

[Speaker 1] (2:41:39 - 2:41:43)
I think the only other thing that I just picked up on is a vacation carryover,

[Speaker 3] (2:41:43 - 2:41:44)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:41:44 - 2:41:46)
that would change because I think Well, what

[Speaker 4] (2:41:46 - 2:41:47)
what number

[Speaker 1] (2:41:47 - 2:41:47)
Well,

[Speaker 4] (2:41:47 - 2:41:47)
was that?

[Speaker 1] (2:41:47 - 2:41:49)
you know, just if you don't mind holding for a second,

[Speaker 6] (2:41:49 - 2:41:49)
Oh, sure.

[Speaker 1] (2:41:49 - 2:41:51)
let's pause for a second with what Mary Ellen's saying.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:51 - 2:41:51)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:41:52 - 2:41:57)
Wh wh what about the thirty four hours? Is that extremely standard municipal-wise or?

[Speaker 3] (2:41:57 - 2:42:01)
Yeah, so the the ones that I compared us to

[Speaker 3] (2:42:02 - 2:42:07)
Marble Head was a 37.5, Hull was 33, Ipswich was 35,

[Speaker 3] (2:42:08 - 2:42:09)
Linfield was 37,

[Speaker 3] (2:42:09 - 2:42:13)
Newburyport was 35, and Scituate was 35.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:16 - 2:42:20)
Everybody's different because everybody some people are closing on Fridays, some people are

[Speaker 3] (2:42:20 - 2:42:21)
I'm

[Speaker 2] (2:42:21 - 2:42:21)
working

[Speaker 3] (2:42:21 - 2:42:21)
pretty till sure

[Speaker 2] (2:42:21 - 2:42:21)
some 12.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:21 - 2:42:22)
do an hour break,

[Speaker 2] (2:42:22 - 2:42:22)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:42:22 - 2:42:22)
some

[Speaker 2] (2:42:22 - 2:42:23)
mean they do

[Speaker 3] (2:42:23 - 2:42:23)
do

[Speaker 2] (2:42:23 - 2:42:23)
a half hour.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:23 - 2:42:24)
half hour break.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:24 - 2:42:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:24 - 2:42:24)
So

[Speaker 6] (2:42:25 - 2:42:26)
Can I ask what the contract is?

[Speaker 2] (2:42:26 - 2:42:29)
Well, we're probably the least, right? Thirty four is probably the less, the least.

[Speaker 1] (2:42:29 - 2:42:30)
Thirty what?

[Speaker 3] (2:42:30 - 2:42:30)
We're

[Speaker 2] (2:42:30 - 2:42:31)
Thirty four is probably

[Speaker 1] (2:42:31 - 2:42:31)
It was thirty

[Speaker 2] (2:42:31 - 2:42:31)
one of

[Speaker 1] (2:42:31 - 2:42:31)
six.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:31 - 2:42:32)
the lower ones,

[Speaker 1] (2:42:32 - 2:42:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:32 - 2:42:35)
right? Thirty three or thirty four.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:35 - 2:42:35)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:42:38 - 2:42:39)
None says forty. So I don't know what to tell you.

[Speaker 1] (2:42:40 - 2:42:45)
So do I like all the department contracts save forty?

[Speaker 4] (2:42:45 - 2:42:45)
No,

[Speaker 1] (2:42:45 - 2:42:45)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (2:42:45 - 2:42:45)
No.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:45 - 2:42:46)
Thirty four.

[Speaker 4] (2:42:46 - 2:42:46)
they don't.

[Speaker 1] (2:42:46 - 2:42:47)
Thirty four too?

[Speaker 6] (2:42:47 - 2:42:48)
Just one.

[Speaker 4] (2:42:48 - 2:42:50)
Some of them say, some of them don't say.

[Speaker 2] (2:42:51 - 2:42:52)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:42:52 - 2:42:54)
This says forty hours.

[Speaker 6] (2:42:54 - 2:42:54)
Twenty This, hours.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:54 - 2:42:57)
you know, standard town hall hours technically,

[Speaker 4] (2:42:57 - 2:42:57)
This does right now.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:57 - 2:43:01)
although our town hall hours are more than thirty four 'cause we're open on Fridays now.

[Speaker 2] (2:43:02 - 2:43:03)
So we're inconsistent.

[Speaker 3] (2:43:03 - 2:43:04)
We added four hours.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:07 - 2:43:08)
Well, not, But we didn't change

[Speaker 3] (2:43:08 - 2:43:09)
it's not people,

[Speaker 1] (2:43:09 - 2:43:09)
people

[Speaker 3] (2:43:09 - 2:43:09)
we

[Speaker 4] (2:43:09 - 2:43:10)
right.

[Speaker 1] (2:43:10 - 2:43:10)
are still working.

[Speaker 3] (2:43:10 - 2:43:12)
added four hours of operating business.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:12 - 2:43:13)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:43:13 - 2:43:16)
So it can't be that all stand, town hall or hours are

[Speaker 2] (2:43:16 - 2:43:16)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:43:16 - 2:43:16)
still yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:43:18 - 2:43:19)
Well that's what they say right now still.

[Speaker 1] (2:43:23 - 2:43:23)
I I mean what

[Speaker 2] (2:43:25 - 2:43:27)
How do you start fixing that, right?

[Speaker 2] (2:43:28 - 2:43:29)
We really

[Speaker 1] (2:43:29 - 2:43:29)
grade thirty five.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:30 - 2:43:33)
Well, if you have new if we're hiring, you know, as we're hiring new people, you know.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:35 - 2:43:36)
Welcome to Swamp Scott.

[Speaker 6] (2:43:37 - 2:43:38)
I think we missed

[Speaker 3] (2:43:38 - 2:43:40)
Don't forget to lock the door on your way out.

[Speaker 6] (2:43:40 - 2:43:40)
I don't know

[Speaker 2] (2:43:40 - 2:43:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:43:40 - 2:43:41)
where he is.

[Speaker 4] (2:43:43 - 2:43:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:43:44 - 2:43:45)
Oh, look at mine.

[Speaker 6] (2:43:45 - 2:43:45)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:43:47 - 2:43:54)
I mean, you balance it with, like, are your needs of your constituents being met? Are your services being met by the hours that you're there, right? What

[Speaker 2] (2:43:55 - 2:44:02)
What are we looking to do, increase people's hours just to say we're increasing your hours and then are we gonna compensate them for that? Are we gonna adjust the pay scale with

[Speaker 4] (2:44:02 - 2:44:03)
I

[Speaker 2] (2:44:03 - 2:44:03)
think the other

[Speaker 4] (2:44:03 - 2:44:03)
when we're

[Speaker 2] (2:44:03 - 2:44:03)
hours?

[Speaker 4] (2:44:03 - 2:44:07)
when we're hiring when we're hiring new people we're hiring at a competitive pay scale,

[Speaker 4] (2:44:08 - 2:44:15)
right? And I think we could increase to thirty six hours without blinking an eye.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:16 - 2:44:16)
Especially

[Speaker 2] (2:44:16 - 2:44:16)
But but if there's

[Speaker 1] (2:44:16 - 2:44:17)
we do it cost in a three

[Speaker 2] (2:44:17 - 2:44:17)
associated.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:17 - 2:44:17)
weeks vacation.

[Speaker 4] (2:44:17 - 2:44:19)
Three weeks vacation,

[Speaker 2] (2:44:19 - 2:44:19)
You know?

[Speaker 6] (2:44:19 - 2:44:22)
$85 on a dollar buyback at Checkout.

[Speaker 2] (2:44:22 - 2:44:22)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:22 - 2:44:22)
I mean, it

[Speaker 2] (2:44:22 - 2:44:23)
Longevity.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:23 - 2:44:27)
that's not it's actually not It does kind of go hand in hand in a way

[Speaker 2] (2:44:29 - 2:44:33)
There's a cost associated though, right? I mean you you realize.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:33 - 2:44:38)
Maybe not I mean 36 hours in three weeks vacation right off the bat

[Speaker 1] (2:44:39 - 2:44:43)
Yeah, but if you have, but how does it work with the contracts that you have today?

[Speaker 6] (2:44:43 - 2:44:44)
No, this is going forward.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:44 - 2:44:44)
Under-under

[Speaker 4] (2:44:44 - 2:44:45)
Only going forward.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:45 - 2:44:47)
-understood, but you would ha you would You're still have.

[Speaker 2] (2:44:47 - 2:44:49)
sitting next to somebody who's working less

[Speaker 3] (2:44:49 - 2:44:49)
Therefore,

[Speaker 2] (2:44:49 - 2:44:49)
than you, right?

[Speaker 3] (2:44:49 - 2:44:50)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:44:50 - 2:44:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:44:50 - 2:44:52)
Where's the equity piece,

[Speaker 2] (2:44:52 - 2:44:52)
right?

[Speaker 6] (2:44:54 - 2:44:54)
I've got to ask.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:55 - 2:45:05)
I will say for the most part from where I sit, most people don't dash out the door on time. And a lot of them don't put in for flex or comp time when they're there an extra hour.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:05 - 2:45:06)
or more.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:07 - 2:45:09)
I really, for the mass majority,

[Speaker 3] (2:45:10 - 2:45:10)
don't

[Speaker 2] (2:45:10 - 2:45:11)
So what's that?

[Speaker 3] (2:45:11 - 2:45:14)
see an abuse of people. Oh, it's

[Speaker 2] (2:45:14 - 2:45:14)
Or running out

[Speaker 3] (2:45:14 - 2:45:14)
I gotta

[Speaker 2] (2:45:14 - 2:45:14)
of thirty

[Speaker 3] (2:45:14 - 2:45:14)
go.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:14 - 2:45:15)
four hours, you're saying?

[Speaker 3] (2:45:16 - 2:45:17)
They're working more than thirty Yeah. four.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:18 - 2:45:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:18 - 2:45:20)
And they're not always asking for flex or comp.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:23 - 2:45:25)
From town hall's perspective, I can't speak.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:25 - 2:45:27)
So you know, picture it, you have a brand new person comes in.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:28 - 2:45:44)
You're working an extra couple of hours. The person that's been here twenty years sitting next to you is working less, maybe doing less, right? Where, you know, how does that what does that what do you do for morale there, right? How do you keep them not being looking at each other and saying, oh, you know, the equity piece.

[Speaker 3] (2:45:44 - 2:45:45)
I don't know.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:45 - 2:45:50)
Well, that person's also they've been there a long time, they get more weeks vacation too. You know, I mean that's that's right in the policy.

[Speaker 2] (2:45:50 - 2:45:53)
So you're working less hours than me and you're getting more vacation than me? Whoa.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:53 - 2:45:56)
Yep, that's what that's what being there that you

[Speaker 4] (2:45:56 - 2:45:56)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (2:45:56 - 2:45:56)
know, leads

[Speaker 4] (2:45:56 - 2:45:57)
and you could not

[Speaker 1] (2:45:57 - 2:45:57)
to.

[Speaker 4] (2:45:57 - 2:45:59)
take the job, I mean, I think

[Speaker 2] (2:46:02 - 2:46:03)
Exactly. We want to get in that position.

[Speaker 3] (2:46:05 - 2:46:09)
Or you, I don't know, look at upping it to 36 and looking at...

[Speaker 3] (2:46:10 - 2:46:12)
people's salaries at the same time.

[Speaker 2] (2:46:12 - 2:46:12)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:46:13 - 2:46:14)
Well that's if we go backwards.

[Speaker 4] (2:46:15 - 2:46:18)
You know going forwards I think we're

[Speaker 4] (2:46:21 - 2:46:27)
we are competitive. I mean I think that, you know we're competitive with other communities when we're

[Speaker 2] (2:46:28 - 2:46:28)
Depends on the job.

[Speaker 3] (2:46:28 - 2:46:31)
It does pretend right now according to

[Speaker 3] (2:46:32 - 2:46:36)
The gentleman who's doing the search firm told us our salaries were all over the board and

[Speaker 2] (2:46:36 - 2:46:36)
Exactly.

[Speaker 3] (2:46:36 - 2:46:40)
they're not competitive for some jobs and other jobs are little too high.

[Speaker 2] (2:46:41 - 2:46:44)
We've seen that. We've seen that in every cert salary survey we've done.

[Speaker 2] (2:46:47 - 2:46:49)
It's a bigger big consideration.

[Speaker 3] (2:46:49 - 2:46:50)
All right, so

[Speaker 1] (2:46:50 - 2:46:53)
Okay, so I think we need to think about that. I certainly

[Speaker 4] (2:46:53 - 2:46:53)
920.

[Speaker 1] (2:46:53 - 2:46:58)
I certainly wouldn't want to vote on that without uh Katie having the opportunity to vote on that with us.

[Speaker 3] (2:46:58 - 2:46:58)
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:46:58 - 2:47:03)
Um so um we can uh I think we've got the data.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:03 - 2:47:04)
Thank you, Marian.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:05 - 2:47:06)
Thank you for all

[Speaker 3] (2:47:06 - 2:47:06)
I'll

[Speaker 2] (2:47:06 - 2:47:06)
of this.

[Speaker 3] (2:47:06 - 2:47:10)
make the changes and send you a changed version and word.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:10 - 2:47:15)
If you want to up the hours and have us vote on that, we uh we'll leave it up to you to your uh

[Speaker 2] (2:47:15 - 2:47:15)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:15 - 2:47:20)
professional judgment to make that uh initial recommendation. Then we can blame it on you okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:20 - 2:47:21)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:21 - 2:47:22)
Um

[Speaker 1] (2:47:23 - 2:47:25)
Everyone good with that for now?

[Speaker 6] (2:47:25 - 2:47:25)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:25 - 2:47:26)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:27 - 2:47:30)
Okay, thank you, Marianne. Um

[Speaker 2] (2:47:31 - 2:47:31)
Sorry.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:31 - 2:47:32)
Patrick.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:34 - 2:47:35)
Water and sewer rates.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:36 - 2:47:36)
Let's do it.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:36 - 2:47:37)
Oh, Patrick.

[Speaker 2] (2:47:39 - 2:47:40)
You're a lucky man.

[Speaker 7] (2:47:46 - 2:47:48)
Diane, do you wanna pull up?

[Speaker 7] (2:47:48 - 2:47:53)
Alright, thank you. Um Diane's gonna pull up a couple slides I have.

[Speaker 7] (2:47:54 - 2:47:57)
Just got an update on the water sewer rates.

[Speaker 7] (2:47:57 - 2:48:23)
I think I've last sent the board an update early June, and since then obviously we reached the end of the fiscal year. So I've taken a look at um the revenues and expenditures for FY 25 to see where we're looking at and project out where our retained earnings will be um when they're next certified in the fall. Um just the highlights, and I've put this in my memo for you, but I'll just

[Speaker 7] (2:48:24 - 2:48:36)
Or at least say it for the for the meeting. Uh sewer revenues came in above budget by about two hundred and twenty thousand dollars, which is a positive. Um I would attribute oh okay, I'll just talk.

[Speaker 8] (2:48:37 - 2:48:37)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (2:48:37 - 2:48:39)
Um I would attribute it

[Speaker 1] (2:48:39 - 2:48:47)
I would attribute it that to the aggressive way that we set the rates last year for the sewer fund particularly. We did passed in almost eighteen per cent increase in the rate.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:48 - 2:49:03)
Um and we factored in some buffer for debt service that we thought we may need to pay um for our project that was coming online and that debt service payment, the timing of it was later. So we benefit from not having to pay that.

[Speaker 1] (2:49:03 - 2:49:06)
um in FY25 in its entirety.

[Speaker 1] (2:49:08 - 2:49:12)
And in the water fund the revenues were a little bit below target,

[Speaker 1] (2:49:12 - 2:49:15)
about two and a half percent below target.

[Speaker 1] (2:49:15 - 2:49:31)
The water rate we increased 6.2% last year and I would attribute that primarily to a bit of a slip with delinquencies on repayment of the water bills and the sewer bills so

[Speaker 1] (2:49:32 - 2:49:44)
I noticed uh about a ten percent delinquency rate where we're getting tardiness in the repayments that's higher than it has been in the past, um and I'll talk about that a little bit more. But

[Speaker 1] (2:49:46 - 2:49:55)
uh the water expenditures are right on target, so we're spending almost every dollar that we budgeted in the water fund. So in in my memo I

[Speaker 1] (2:49:55 - 2:50:09)
put a table in there that shows the projected retained earnings that'll be certified in the fall, which is the F.Y. twenty six projection column, if you have that memo in front of you. And we're looking at uh four ten percent of budget in the sewer fund,

[Speaker 1] (2:50:10 - 2:50:20)
which is um not twenty percent, which is the threshold that we want to be at in our policies. I think with the rates that we set last year, we were targeting getting us to seventeen percent.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:20 - 2:50:45)
in year one so that we would get to twenty percent the following year. Um but we're moving definitely in the right direction in the sewer fund, in the water fund, um we're gonna be at six percent definitely not moving in uh the right direction there. We were at eight point nine percent last year. The budget is growing, but obviously our expenditures and our revenues, we didn't have a big surplus this year at all. Um

[Speaker 1] (2:50:46 - 2:50:53)
So, using those numbers as the basis to update the rate projections, um

[Speaker 1] (2:50:54 - 2:51:03)
I have come up with rate projections. Diane, if you want to just flip the slide there. This is the same slide I presented to you last time.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:04 - 2:51:13)
Um I've just updated it with this information, so just to remind you scenario one gets us to um our full funding of retained earnings by the end of

[Speaker 1] (2:51:14 - 2:51:27)
This current fiscal year, FY26, um that would be about a twenty eight percent average bill increase uh compared to fifty six communities that are surveyed by the MWRA,

[Speaker 1] (2:51:27 - 2:51:29)
we'd be about um

[Speaker 1] (2:51:30 - 2:51:38)
twelfth for cost of water and sewer service and it would add on annual basis estimated three hundred and fifty eight dollars a year.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:39 - 2:51:50)
And then I've uh updated scenarios two and three which get you to a lower uh replenishment of retained earnings in both funds as well, just as additional options.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:52 - 2:52:05)
And um again the big thing driving this compared to when we last spoke and I updated you is just the year-end results. So we have more certainty around where the retained earnings will be when the DOR certifies them.

[Speaker 1] (2:52:06 - 2:52:28)
I'm very confident in those numbers as the basis for this projection. And then also changing the assumption for collections, the collection rate lowering that in the model is driving some of these rate increases. And I think to address the increase in repayment,

[Speaker 1] (2:52:28 - 2:52:31)
delinquenicies, it's definitely a couple tools we can

[Speaker 1] (2:52:32 - 2:53:00)
Uh to discuss I'll have definitely meet with Gino to see what we can do um but currently we're not issuing uh late notices with demand fees for the ut utility bills because we have never had to in past and there's a cost associated with that postage and printing. But that may be something that we look to initiate and that requires town meeting uh to set a fee for that. Um but we do that for real estate once a year I think to do it for water and sewer makes a lot of sense.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:01 - 2:53:08)
for seeing us slip up. And we also don't have a shut off policy.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:10 - 2:53:22)
That's never been needed, but there may be a threshold or a situation where we start to look at implementing something like that in really, really drastic situations for accounts.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:22 - 2:53:29)
And I don't have a lot of data on other towns. I know other towns in the North Shore have that kind of policy to protect from

[Speaker 1] (2:53:30 - 2:53:34)
You know, just total disregard. Um

[Speaker 2] (2:53:34 - 2:53:37)
So we have no policy regarding late payments of water and sewer bills?

[Speaker 1] (2:53:38 - 2:53:49)
Well we do have procedures to collect. So right now if a water account goes unpaid for fiscal, say twenty five, you haven't paid your water bills for FY twenty five or or even one bill.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:50 - 2:54:11)
By the time we set the tax rate in December this year, we'll certify your water bill balance to your tax bill as a special assessment and it gets becomes part of your tax bill and we collect that in the third and fourth quarter in um the January first bill and the April first bill. And that's standard. That's mass general law collection procedures. Um

[Speaker 2] (2:54:11 - 2:54:12)
There is no penalty.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:12 - 2:54:13)
Well there's interest

[Speaker 2] (2:54:13 - 2:54:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:13 - 2:54:13)
for fourteen

[Speaker 3] (2:54:13 - 2:54:14)
Fourteen

[Speaker 1] (2:54:14 - 2:54:14)
percent,

[Speaker 3] (2:54:14 - 2:54:14)
percent.

[Speaker 2] (2:54:15 - 2:54:15)
Fourteen percent.

[Speaker 4] (2:54:15 - 2:54:15)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:15 - 2:54:21)
which is definitely punitive, and that's set by the state. Um but that doesn't seem to be

[Speaker 2] (2:54:22 - 2:54:22)
Deterring anybody.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:22 - 2:54:26)
deterring, and and when you've certified to a tax bill, if someone then pays their tax bill late,

[Speaker 1] (2:54:27 - 2:54:29)
the collection time is prolonged.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:30 - 2:54:33)
But if you're sending a late notice, that's another chance for someone to say, hey, I missed a payment.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:34 - 2:54:36)
I'm then talk to us we'll resolve that with you.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:37 - 2:54:37)
Okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:54:37 - 2:54:49)
So, so Patrick is the is the reason that these that these proposed rates increasing 28.8 to 24.2 uh in in these various scenarios is this simply a cash flow issue?

[Speaker 2] (2:54:49 - 2:54:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:54:50 - 2:54:50)
Because

[Speaker 1] (2:54:50 - 2:54:50)
Well,

[Speaker 5] (2:54:50 - 2:54:55)
because we're now seeing we're now seeing collection rates at 90% when historically they

[Speaker 1] (2:54:55 - 2:54:56)
partially.

[Speaker 5] (2:54:56 - 2:54:56)
have been

[Speaker 1] (2:54:57 - 2:55:01)
Partially because the basis of the scenarios is retained earnings projections.

[Speaker 1] (2:55:02 - 2:55:27)
and retainer the basis of the calculation for the retained earnings projection that the doy does is the cash balance in the fund and then you back out your liabilities which are our purchase orders you have outstanding at the end of the year for contracts or expenses that will be invoiced later or um any other liability that the doy identifies. So um in a way, yes to answer your question, but that's a contributing factor here.

[Speaker 5] (2:55:27 - 2:55:29)
Okay. So in the event that

[Speaker 5] (2:55:29 - 2:55:39)
I mean, historically, where have these assumptions been for the from a modeling perspective? Have we have we have we typically collected ninety five plus

[Speaker 1] (2:55:39 - 2:55:39)
Yeah, I

[Speaker 5] (2:55:39 - 2:55:39)
percent?

[Speaker 1] (2:55:39 - 2:55:42)
say typically if you go back five, ten years,

[Speaker 1] (2:55:42 - 2:55:46)
ninety six I think we were using ninety six point seven percent.

[Speaker 1] (2:55:46 - 2:55:51)
It's been very recently that that's we've seen a slip. Um

[Speaker 1] (2:55:52 - 2:56:18)
So I've updated this to ninety percent in the model this year. So it it may be aggressive, you know, especially if we implement policies mid mid-year, we may hopefully exceed that collection threshold at the end of FY 26 and then we'll have an even larger surplus and then we'd be looking at a situation where we're in a better position and we can adjust the rate at that time. I don't think we're gonna go backward, I think now

[Speaker 1] (2:56:19 - 2:56:23)
we have opportunities to implement more policies and try

[Speaker 6] (2:56:23 - 2:56:25)
So is the 90, is the 90 um

[Speaker 6] (2:56:27 - 2:56:30)
the rate which just happened this year?

[Speaker 1] (2:56:31 - 2:56:31)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:56:31 - 2:56:33)
It is nine, it was 90.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:33 - 2:56:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:34 - 2:56:34)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:56:37 - 2:56:40)
Okay. So you didn't just pick that as a conservative that actually

[Speaker 1] (2:56:40 - 2:56:45)
No, I mean it's it's rounded a little bit. Yes, 90 percent is what we would exp what I would expect at this point.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:46 - 2:56:47)
As a useful tool.

[Speaker 5] (2:56:49 - 2:56:55)
So and j just on these rate options on the on the chart that you have in front of us uh

[Speaker 1] (2:56:55 - 2:56:55)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (2:56:55 - 2:56:56)
you would you would also

[Speaker 5] (2:56:58 - 2:57:14)
I'm going off a memory here, but I do think that you had you had the combined cost of of twelve out of fifty six communities. But I think you all I think in previous iterations of this presentation you you did have where we ranked on a water perspective solely and uh and then on a sewer perspective.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:15 - 2:57:15)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (2:57:15 - 2:57:15)
Um

[Speaker 2] (2:57:15 - 2:57:15)
Mm.

[Speaker 5] (2:57:15 - 2:57:25)
so I'm I'm just curious as to as to how that shakes out because I I do know that you know sewer was certainly something that was, you know, we we were we had negative retained earnings for fiscal year twenty five.

[Speaker 5] (2:57:26 - 2:57:30)
And we were trying to get back to that 20 percent threshold as quickly as possible.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:30 - 2:57:30)
So

[Speaker 5] (2:57:30 - 2:57:39)
So I was just curious if if if sewer was I thought historically that had been something that was kept well below.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:39 - 2:57:44)
Yes, you're right. So I had a nice chart in the slides and I can recirculate it for you.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:44 - 2:57:48)
I don't have it updated tonight, but I do have it updated to share with you.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:48 - 2:57:49)
I just didn't include it in what I gave Diane.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:50 - 2:57:52)
So our water rates.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:53 - 2:57:55)
are high compared to these

[Speaker 2] (2:57:55 - 2:57:55)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:55 - 2:58:18)
other communities that are included in the survey. And with this change we would be probably third out of fifty six for water rates. I think in the last iteration we were maybe like sixth. So um we're right up there with the Haunt actually is quite high and uh Winthrop um and then for sewer rates you're correct we were below the the middle mark, the middle of the pack.

[Speaker 1] (2:58:18 - 2:58:23)
Um this would bring us a little bit above the middle of the pack with the the super increase.

[Speaker 7] (2:58:23 - 2:58:23)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (2:58:24 - 2:58:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:58:24 - 2:58:33)
But al also at a time when we've chronically under-invested in our in our infrastr in our w in our sewer infrastructure.

[Speaker 1] (2:58:33 - 2:58:33)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (2:58:33 - 2:58:34)
I I know we've invested in our

[Speaker 3] (2:58:39 - 2:58:39)
Yeah, we

[Speaker 1] (2:58:39 - 2:58:39)
you

[Speaker 3] (2:58:39 - 2:58:40)
never get to pay the

[Speaker 1] (2:58:40 - 2:58:42)
need to yeah, you need to you need to pay to

[Speaker 1] (2:58:43 - 2:58:44)
to play and

[Speaker 4] (2:58:44 - 2:58:44)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:58:44 - 2:58:51)
certainly those repairs that we're making and those investments that we're making in hundred plus year old infrastructure needs to be you know it

[Speaker 2] (2:58:51 - 2:58:55)
Yeah, I would say we're playing a little bit of catch up with the infrastructure.

[Speaker 2] (2:58:56 - 2:59:00)
Um and we're also same time playing catch up with the rate. So

[Speaker 5] (2:59:01 - 2:59:05)
Yeah, I say I am I am concerned about you know

[Speaker 5] (2:59:06 - 2:59:16)
what the likely tax rate is going to be based on the budget to begin with right and then this on top of it and then our next topic

[Speaker 2] (2:59:16 - 2:59:16)
GPA

[Speaker 5] (2:59:16 - 2:59:16)
CPA

[Speaker 2] (2:59:16 - 2:59:17)
CPA.

[Speaker 5] (2:59:17 - 2:59:17)
on top of that

[Speaker 6] (2:59:17 - 2:59:17)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (2:59:17 - 2:59:32)
so you know we do have investments to make but we also have you know we have other sources that we have the ARPA funds we have the low-cost loans that we're using to do a lot of the sewer work right

[Speaker 5] (2:59:32 - 2:59:50)
Great. So it's not like we don't have, this isn't our primary, even our primary source, I don't think, in terms of funding those long-term investments at which are, you know, they're long-term investments as opposed to, you know, what we're doing here is I think of this more as our kind of, this is our operating costs,

[Speaker 2] (2:59:50 - 2:59:50)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (2:59:50 - 2:59:51)
right?

[Speaker 2] (2:59:51 - 2:59:52)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (2:59:52 - 2:59:58)
And so, you know, while it'd be nice to get to 20%, I'm not sure if there's like.

[Speaker 5] (2:59:58 - 3:00:27)
total magic in that you know in one year so it's not a huge Delta when we're looking at the difference between 358 versus $300 for the average household but I'll just say I'm inclined to to go lower with this at this point in time I realize that we're probably not going to get to 20% magically if we do that but to take it more stepwise as opposed to trying to solve this all at once but you know

[Speaker 2] (3:00:27 - 3:00:28)
I'll just

[Speaker 5] (3:00:28 - 3:00:29)
Happy to hear the counter to that.

[Speaker 2] (3:00:29 - 3:00:40)
Yeah, I'll just chime in. You know, I d I have worked with a subgroup from the water sewer infrastructure committee on this. They haven't seen this most recent update because I just did this like this past week.

[Speaker 2] (3:00:40 - 3:00:54)
And obviously they've had a little bit of turnover with their committee. Um but I did meet with them in June and they said you know generally the sense of their their committee as a whole was that they favored a scenario where that these retained earnings were fully replenished in one year.

[Speaker 2] (3:00:55 - 3:01:14)
Um so that was their communication to me, so I wanna make sure you have that. And I totally appreciate that the holistically, you know, the cost, the affordability of, you know, owning a property or living in Swampscott um or anywhere in in Massachusetts really um is is tough. There's a lot of pressures on that right now.

[Speaker 2] (3:01:16 - 3:01:27)
The water and sewer funds are separate from the general fund, and I know the money comes from the same place, which is everybody. But, um you know, this is an area of

[Speaker 2] (3:01:28 - 3:01:53)
really risk at this point where we know we have there's all these investments that need to be made and we know that our funds are in a you know they're not in this sky-high position where we can throw money at all we don't have cash on hand to throw at all those projects so I don't know if you want to flip to the next slide Diane so one of the things I gave you last time I met you and I updated it is a 10-year forecast for rate increases

[Speaker 2] (3:01:54 - 3:02:12)
On the back end of this, and I have the back up I think it's in your packet somewhere, you know I have a whole ten year forecast for water and sewer funds that factors in the capital investments we know about. Um this chart shows, you know, if using scenario one

[Speaker 2] (3:02:12 - 3:02:29)
You know, the large increase in F_Y_ twenty six, and then you get more manageable increases over the next ten years using realistic numbers, you're not gonna see a two percent on there, I levelled it out at you know, we're not gonna do less than a three percent, and that gets you the lines that are uh

[Speaker 2] (3:02:30 - 3:02:40)
horizontally um, you you know, increasing vertically across the horizon there, those are your retained earnings balances, and the funds assuming you're not pulling anything out.

[Speaker 2] (3:02:41 - 3:02:47)
So they're just steadily increasing and then that's cash on hand you can use for those projects.

[Speaker 2] (3:02:48 - 3:02:52)
Or if you say, hey, that's not the route we want to go, we have another funding mechanism.

[Speaker 2] (3:02:53 - 3:02:53)
The last

[Speaker 5] (3:02:53 - 3:02:53)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 2] (3:02:53 - 3:02:59)
year you can raise a rate less or like I know Nahant had a situation where they had a huge expenditure,

[Speaker 2] (3:02:59 - 3:03:11)
a huge huge rate increase and then the following year they dropped the rate like seven percent or something because they were generating these surpluses and they my assumption is they made a policy decision we don't need that level surplus in the out years.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:12 - 3:03:17)
So there's different things that can be decided obviously over the 10-year horizon that lots will change.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:18 - 3:03:33)
But this is what you could get out of this or any of three of these scenarios I think would get you some version of this here which is the direction we want to be going in. This is not the direction we have been going in the last ten years looking back.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:34 - 3:03:38)
So that's the gist.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:39 - 3:03:40)
But that's I

[Speaker 1] (3:03:40 - 3:04:01)
Yeah, just just two two comments. I mean I I think a lot of this is going to be driven by the assumption uh the collection rate assumption. So if if historically we were at ninety six point seven and now we're changing this assumption to ninety, um you know maybe we do want to take a closer look at what at what that assumption is, because that is going to have a big impact on

[Speaker 1] (3:04:02 - 3:04:06)
this uh on on this discussion uh about rate increases.

[Speaker 1] (3:04:07 - 3:04:08)
So

[Speaker 5] (3:04:08 - 3:04:18)
Although I mean, but I think Patrick's saying that, I mean, that was what happened in the most recent year. So he has looked at that. So I think we have to kind of, you know, it seems reasonable

[Speaker 7] (3:04:18 - 3:04:19)
Uh, further there.

[Speaker 5] (3:04:19 - 3:04:19)
for me.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:19 - 3:04:24)
I think we we're in a position with with these funds and these rates that we need to be conservative.

[Speaker 5] (3:04:24 - 3:04:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:25 - 3:04:26)
We need to hedge our bets with that.

[Speaker 5] (3:04:26 - 3:04:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:27 - 3:04:32)
And I think that, you know, a year from now when we're having this conversation again.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:33 - 3:04:40)
Hopefully we're a we're able to implement some changes midstream that these the collection rate is up and then the rates can come

[Speaker 5] (3:04:40 - 3:04:40)
The rates

[Speaker 2] (3:04:40 - 3:04:40)
come

[Speaker 5] (3:04:40 - 3:04:41)
can

[Speaker 2] (3:04:41 - 3:04:41)
down or go up

[Speaker 5] (3:04:41 - 3:04:41)
moderate.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:41 - 3:04:43)
last. You know what I mean?

[Speaker 5] (3:04:43 - 3:04:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:43 - 3:04:51)
Um but we're really we're trying to target the uh balance and the fund at a certain level so that we comply with our own policies. So

[Speaker 8] (3:04:51 - 3:04:54)
The collection rate is a cash flow issue,

[Speaker 8] (3:04:54 - 3:04:59)
but because it's a cash flow issue, it messes up your formula, right?

[Speaker 2] (3:05:00 - 3:05:02)
It reduces your retained earnings

[Speaker 8] (3:05:02 - 3:05:02)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:02 - 3:05:04)
if yes, yes.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:04 - 3:05:11)
So we it reduces your retained earnings because you don't have the cash in there, but you still have it it's still an asset.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:11 - 3:05:11)
You still have a receipt.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:11 - 3:05:12)
It's actually

[Speaker 2] (3:05:12 - 3:05:12)
Yes.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:12 - 3:05:14)
an asset plus fourteen percent.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:14 - 3:05:15)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:17 - 3:05:17)
So

[Speaker 2] (3:05:21 - 3:05:21)
It's

[Speaker 8] (3:05:21 - 3:05:21)
One

[Speaker 2] (3:05:21 - 3:05:21)
pretty nice.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:21 - 3:05:22)
way of we saving on These batteries.

[Speaker 5] (3:05:22 - 3:05:24)
are huge incre I'm sorry, I just had

[Speaker 8] (3:05:24 - 3:05:24)
I just,

[Speaker 5] (3:05:24 - 3:05:24)
a I just

[Speaker 8] (3:05:24 - 3:05:24)
I can't,

[Speaker 5] (3:05:24 - 3:05:25)
had a massive increase.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:25 - 3:05:25)
right,

[Speaker 5] (3:05:25 - 3:05:26)
Was it I 25

[Speaker 8] (3:05:26 - 3:05:26)
can't, I can't

[Speaker 5] (3:05:26 - 3:05:27)
%

[Speaker 8] (3:05:27 - 3:05:27)
get on

[Speaker 5] (3:05:27 - 3:05:27)
in one

[Speaker 8] (3:05:27 - 3:05:27)
on board

[Speaker 5] (3:05:27 - 3:05:27)
year?

[Speaker 8] (3:05:27 - 3:05:41)
with these increases at all. See, I just I also have one question. It with the liability on the project that's cleared the 174. Is that are we talking about the money that was spent?

[Speaker 8] (3:05:43 - 3:05:48)
Spent, I thought it was like 185 on the Stacy's Brook. We spent, w we

[Speaker 2] (3:05:48 - 3:05:48)
Yeah, but

[Speaker 8] (3:05:48 - 3:05:51)
spent a hundred and something thousand, a hundred and eighty thousand dollars

[Speaker 1] (3:05:51 - 3:05:51)
one eighty four.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:51 - 3:05:55)
on Stacy's Brook and we put it into our sewer fund.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:55 - 3:05:56)
No.

[Speaker 8] (3:05:56 - 3:05:56)
Did we take that out?

[Speaker 2] (3:05:56 - 3:05:57)
No, this is this

[Speaker 8] (3:05:57 - 3:05:58)
That's still in there.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:58 - 3:06:00)
is just that I

[Speaker 2] (3:06:01 - 3:06:02)
Whatever that is, that's different than what I'm talking about here.

[Speaker 8] (3:06:03 - 3:06:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:03 - 3:06:13)
Okay? So, yeah, I know this was addressed in previous meetings where there was a timing issue with the capital project where an expense came on sooner than expected, the borrowing didn't happen by June thirtieth.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:14 - 3:06:14)
So that

[Speaker 8] (3:06:14 - 3:06:14)
Oh,

[Speaker 2] (3:06:14 - 3:06:15)
had

[Speaker 8] (3:06:15 - 3:06:15)
okay. So you're talking

[Speaker 2] (3:06:15 - 3:06:15)
a

[Speaker 8] (3:06:15 - 3:06:16)
about

[Speaker 2] (3:06:16 - 3:06:16)
dot out

[Speaker 8] (3:06:16 - 3:06:16)
it, 'cause there's

[Speaker 2] (3:06:16 - 3:06:17)
of a and earning

[Speaker 8] (3:06:17 - 3:06:17)
l I know.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:17 - 3:06:17)
on

[Speaker 8] (3:06:17 - 3:06:17)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:17 - 3:06:18)
the balance sheet.

[Speaker 8] (3:06:18 - 3:06:20)
You're talking about 'cause we heard a

[Speaker 2] (3:06:20 - 3:06:20)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (3:06:20 - 3:06:20)
a ton

[Speaker 2] (3:06:20 - 3:06:21)
yeah.

[Speaker 8] (3:06:21 - 3:06:26)
of information about how we were in the negatives and we were really never in the negatives.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:26 - 3:06:26)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (3:06:26 - 3:06:28)
Okay. That was just

[Speaker 2] (3:06:28 - 3:06:29)
That's what that is.

[Speaker 8] (3:06:30 - 3:06:31)
campaign part of

[Speaker 2] (3:06:31 - 3:06:31)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:34 - 3:06:35)
And see.

[Speaker 8] (3:06:36 - 3:06:36)
David has a question.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:37 - 3:06:37)
Just go ahead.

[Speaker 1] (3:06:37 - 3:06:45)
No, just just one other one other comment was was really some residents had reached out understanding that

[Speaker 1] (3:06:46 - 3:06:47)
Water and sewer rates

[Speaker 5] (3:06:47 - 3:06:47)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (3:06:47 - 3:06:49)
were likely going to go up, double-digit percentages,

[Speaker 1] (3:06:50 - 3:06:55)
and they had brought to me something that's done in other communities.

[Speaker 1] (3:06:55 - 3:06:57)
Revere was one of the examples.

[Speaker 1] (3:06:58 - 3:06:59)
So May 5th, 2025,

[Speaker 1] (3:07:00 - 3:07:12)
Mayor Keith announced this week that applications for elderly and disabled residents tax relief program and water sewer relief for disabled residents would be available in the treasurer's office on City Hall.

[Speaker 1] (3:07:12 - 3:07:24)
On the website this is sustained by voluntary contributions from taxpayers who respond to the donation sheet included in each quarterly tax bill. Purpose of the program is to provide relief to elderly and or disabled taxpayers,

[Speaker 1] (3:07:25 - 3:07:26)
ratepayers who are having trouble paying their

[Speaker 1] (3:07:27 - 3:07:38)
water and sewer bills because of hardship, etcetera. There's uh there's a requirement criteria. Is something that we may be able to look to to implement to help those who are most

[Speaker 2] (3:07:38 - 3:07:43)
We can. Um if Diane if you wanna click to my next slide,

[Speaker 2] (3:07:43 - 3:07:44)
we do have

[Speaker 2] (3:07:44 - 3:07:46)
some version of this,

[Speaker 5] (3:07:46 - 3:07:47)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:07:47 - 3:08:12)
um so there's a programme in place where uh qualifying residents can get their b uh base rate waived on their water and sewer bills. If they are seventy five or older and they're using below a certain threshold of water in a year, they can fill out a form and submit it to the DPW business office and get that base rate waived, which would be, you know, under any of these scenarios, it'd be about a hundred and seventy dollars a year.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:12 - 3:08:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:13 - 3:08:16)
So that's available. That's based on age.

[Speaker 8] (3:08:18 - 3:08:21)
So is that the only qualifier? They have to be using less

[Speaker 2] (3:08:21 - 3:08:21)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (3:08:21 - 3:08:22)
than $3,000 and

[Speaker 2] (3:08:22 - 3:08:24)
Yep, it's use and age.

[Speaker 8] (3:08:24 - 3:08:24)
used in age.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:24 - 3:08:25)
Yep. Um

[Speaker 8] (3:08:25 - 3:08:26)
No income requirement.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:26 - 3:08:29)
there's no income requirement on that. Um if

[Speaker 1] (3:08:28 - 3:08:31)
Um if the board wanted to implement

[Speaker 1] (3:08:32 - 3:08:44)
Some other version that would make more relief available to or different relief available to different classes that may qualify, that's something that I believe is within your power as water and sewer commissioners.

[Speaker 3] (3:08:44 - 3:08:44)
What is

[Speaker 1] (3:08:44 - 3:08:44)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (3:08:44 - 3:08:45)
Revere's there? Is

[Speaker 4] (3:08:45 - 3:08:45)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (3:08:45 - 3:08:45)
it

[Speaker 4] (3:08:45 - 3:08:55)
i i it it's just saying the program's funded by the generosity of Revere residents looking to extend a helping hand to those in need. It's aimed at helping senior citizens and financially vulnerable uh individuals.

[Speaker 3] (3:08:55 - 3:08:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:08:55 - 3:08:57)
Uh it will provide some welcome relief.

[Speaker 4] (3:08:58 - 3:09:00)
Uh I can circulate this uh

[Speaker 1] (3:09:00 - 3:09:01)
So that that's an instance

[Speaker 1] (3:09:01 - 3:09:04)
instance where taxpayers or ratepayers are funding that

[Speaker 4] (3:09:04 - 3:09:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:04 - 3:09:17)
through like a check off on the tax bill or the water bill rather that's something we can look into I'm aware of that I think that might require an action of town meeting to put a check off on a bill like that but

[Speaker 4] (3:09:17 - 3:09:17)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:17 - 3:09:18)
that

[Speaker 4] (3:09:18 - 3:09:18)
I think

[Speaker 1] (3:09:18 - 3:09:19)
could be

[Speaker 4] (3:09:19 - 3:09:21)
it done would be worth just the investigation

[Speaker 1] (3:09:21 - 3:09:21)
yeah

[Speaker 4] (3:09:21 - 3:09:21)
from

[Speaker 1] (3:09:21 - 3:09:21)
if we know that

[Speaker 4] (3:09:21 - 3:09:23)
my perspective as one.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:24 - 3:09:28)
yeah I can find other examples and see what it would take to implement something like that

[Speaker 1] (3:09:29 - 3:09:30)
that and report back I can talk to Gino.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:31 - 3:09:32)
Okay. Thanks, Patrick.

[Speaker 5] (3:09:32 - 3:09:38)
Uh what's I don't necessarily are you looking for a vote tonight timing wise where where

[Speaker 6] (3:09:38 - 3:09:38)
I

[Speaker 5] (3:09:38 - 3:09:38)
I'm

[Speaker 6] (3:09:38 - 3:09:38)
don't think so.

[Speaker 5] (3:09:38 - 3:09:41)
uh looking to push it off but like

[Speaker 1] (3:09:41 - 3:09:43)
Um August fifteenth. Yep.

[Speaker 6] (3:09:43 - 3:09:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:43 - 3:09:43)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 6] (3:09:43 - 3:09:46)
We start reading August first, yeah, and bill on August fifteenth. Yep.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:46 - 3:09:50)
Bill August fifteenth. So we'll we'll need we would want some kind

[Speaker 5] (3:09:50 - 3:09:50)
That's

[Speaker 1] (3:09:50 - 3:09:51)
of decision

[Speaker 5] (3:09:51 - 3:09:51)
a meeting

[Speaker 1] (3:09:51 - 3:09:51)
on rates.

[Speaker 5] (3:09:51 - 3:09:52)
next meeting it's it

[Speaker 1] (3:09:52 - 3:09:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (3:09:52 - 3:09:53)
I had yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:53 - 3:09:57)
Exactly. Yep. And if there's any feedback, any changes you want me to run

[Speaker 1] (3:09:57 - 3:10:02)
I'm happy to do all of it, I just need to know what what you're interested in seeing as a board.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:04 - 3:10:11)
So what we're saying is if we vote on number three, the additional amount to the average household will be another three hundred dollars.

[Speaker 1] (3:10:12 - 3:10:13)
Estimated, yep.

[Speaker 5] (3:10:16 - 3:10:20)
That's on top. What do we uh what do we project in terms of the taxes? Seven, eight hundred?

[Speaker 7] (3:10:21 - 3:10:23)
Seven hundred and fifty.

[Speaker 5] (3:10:23 - 3:10:23)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:24 - 3:10:28)
to the average, and then what's the C_P_A_

[Speaker 6] (3:10:28 - 3:10:29)
Hundred bucks,

[Speaker 6] (3:10:29 - 3:10:32)
okay. Eleven hundred and fifty dollars.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:32 - 3:10:32)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (3:10:35 - 3:10:37)
Divided by four, roughly three hundred dollars a quarter.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:37 - 3:10:40)
But I just think this this increase is exorbitant. I really do.

[Speaker 6] (3:10:41 - 3:10:41)
Part of

[Speaker 7] (3:10:41 - 3:10:41)
Even

[Speaker 6] (3:10:41 - 3:10:41)
the problem

[Speaker 7] (3:10:41 - 3:10:41)
option three.

[Speaker 6] (3:10:41 - 3:10:46)
right. I know, but part of the problem is the recommendations we were making previously

[Speaker 7] (3:10:47 - 3:10:49)
Were ex exceptionally low, right.

[Speaker 6] (3:10:49 - 3:10:51)
and they were being shot down as political suicide.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:52 - 3:11:07)
You know, I have to be honest with you, any time that something has been presented to us, I mean the presentations that we had, they were never really that high. I mean we I don't I don't know, I think um

[Speaker 5] (3:11:09 - 3:11:10)
What do you mean there, Mary Ellen? Did you vote

[Speaker 7] (3:11:10 - 3:11:12)
The the past presentations that we've had

[Speaker 5] (3:11:12 - 3:11:12)
of

[Speaker 7] (3:11:12 - 3:11:13)
I think

[Speaker 5] (3:11:13 - 3:11:15)
this coming year or past years?

[Speaker 7] (3:11:15 - 3:11:16)
For the last few years.

[Speaker 5] (3:11:16 - 3:11:16)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:16 - 3:11:18)
For la actually even longer than that.

[Speaker 5] (3:11:18 - 3:11:18)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:18 - 3:11:19)
They um

[Speaker 7] (3:11:20 - 3:11:26)
I d I never looked at it like it was political suicide, I looked at it like we it was a recommendation, you could go this, this and this.

[Speaker 6] (3:11:26 - 3:11:29)
They were getting chopped down before they got to see you, before you got to see the raise.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:29 - 3:11:32)
Oh, they got chopped down even further before we got them?

[Speaker 1] (3:11:32 - 3:11:32)
Oh.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:33 - 3:11:36)
Okay, so does that mean we weren't being told the whole story?

[Speaker 6] (3:11:38 - 3:11:39)
Uh, uh kinda.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:40 - 3:11:42)
Mm-hmm. Okay, so that puts another

[Speaker 6] (3:11:42 - 3:11:42)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:42 - 3:11:43)
twist to it.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:45 - 3:11:47)
But there were, there were,

[Speaker 7] (3:11:47 - 3:11:47)
Mm.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:47 - 3:11:49)
I think last year, rate recommendations somewhere in the

[Speaker 7] (3:11:49 - 3:11:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:50 - 3:11:52)
in the high single digits and I think we I think we

[Speaker 7] (3:11:52 - 3:11:52)
We

[Speaker 4] (3:11:52 - 3:11:52)
chose

[Speaker 7] (3:11:52 - 3:11:53)
voted for

[Speaker 4] (3:11:53 - 3:11:53)
the

[Speaker 1] (3:11:53 - 3:11:53)
it. Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (3:11:53 - 3:11:53)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:53 - 3:11:54)
we I don't

[Speaker 5] (3:11:54 - 3:11:55)
So how much

[Speaker 4] (3:11:55 - 3:11:57)
think we higher chose the I don't think we chose the highest, I think we

[Speaker 7] (3:11:57 - 3:11:57)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (3:11:57 - 3:11:57)
chose

[Speaker 7] (3:11:57 - 3:11:57)
we were

[Speaker 4] (3:11:57 - 3:11:58)
something that was that

[Speaker 1] (3:11:58 - 3:11:58)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (3:11:58 - 3:11:59)
was a little we more definitely moderate.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:59 - 3:12:00)
didn't choose

[Speaker 5] (3:12:00 - 3:12:00)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (3:12:00 - 3:12:00)
the least.

[Speaker 5] (3:12:00 - 3:12:02)
we had two options like twenty and nineteen or something like

[Speaker 7] (3:12:02 - 3:12:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (3:12:03 - 3:12:03)
that last year

[Speaker 1] (3:12:03 - 3:12:03)
I

[Speaker 5] (3:12:03 - 3:12:04)
I think.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:04 - 3:12:08)
haven't, but I believe the water rate was six percent and the sewer rate went up eighteen point two.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:09 - 3:12:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (3:12:09 - 3:12:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:09 - 3:12:11)
So on a combined basis that's probably like

[Speaker 5] (3:12:12 - 3:12:12)
Oh, I'm

[Speaker 1] (3:12:12 - 3:12:12)
Well,

[Speaker 5] (3:12:12 - 3:12:16)
thinking about th I'm thinking about the uh the target of for the retained earnings

[Speaker 1] (3:12:16 - 3:12:17)
yeah, I think

[Speaker 5] (3:12:17 - 3:12:17)
in in

[Speaker 1] (3:12:17 - 3:12:17)
we did

[Speaker 5] (3:12:17 - 3:12:17)
twenty

[Speaker 1] (3:12:17 - 3:12:17)
s

[Speaker 5] (3:12:17 - 3:12:17)
or nineteen.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:17 - 3:12:18)
uh we did seventeen

[Speaker 5] (3:12:18 - 3:12:18)
Seventeen.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:18 - 3:12:20)
and obviously we haven't met

[Speaker 5] (3:12:20 - 3:12:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:20 - 3:12:20)
that.

[Speaker 5] (3:12:20 - 3:12:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:21 - 3:12:21)
So

[Speaker 5] (3:12:21 - 3:12:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (3:12:25 - 3:12:25)
So

[Speaker 7] (3:12:25 - 3:12:25)
So

[Speaker 5] (3:12:25 - 3:12:30)
what we voted last year we were t we were hoping we were gonna get to seventeen on both water and sewer out of that.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:31 - 3:12:32)
Yep, that was the goal.

[Speaker 5] (3:12:32 - 3:12:33)
And we got to six and

[Speaker 1] (3:12:34 - 3:12:34)
And fourteen,

[Speaker 1] (3:12:35 - 3:12:35)
yep.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:35 - 3:12:39)
So are we being too aggressive with the retained earnings

[Speaker 8] (3:12:39 - 3:12:39)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:39 - 3:12:40)
with the target there?

[Speaker 7] (3:12:41 - 3:12:47)
Are we being too aggressive with retain our own, especially if we do have w if we do have good stabilisation funds?

[Speaker 1] (3:12:50 - 3:12:54)
Uh that's really so the policy that exists is twenty percent, right? So

[Speaker 7] (3:12:55 - 3:12:56)
Right, but that's is that policy,

[Speaker 6] (3:12:56 - 3:12:56)
Yeah, yeah that's

[Speaker 7] (3:12:56 - 3:12:56)
you know

[Speaker 5] (3:12:56 - 3:12:58)
uh that's the thing. Why?

[Speaker 7] (3:12:58 - 3:13:00)
Right, it always comes back to that same thing.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:00 - 3:13:05)
Yeah, that's that's the policy that we have as a town. So that's kind of the direction I've been told to take. So I

[Speaker 5] (3:13:05 - 3:13:05)
Sure.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:05 - 3:13:08)
I have prepared that, but if we wanna go in a different direction, see

[Speaker 1] (3:13:09 - 3:13:18)
I would base the target off a different retained earnings percentage or throw that whole thing away and base it on some other metric, I can do that, um just be looking for a little direction there.

[Speaker 6] (3:13:18 - 3:13:18)
Do

[Speaker 7] (3:13:18 - 3:13:18)
No,

[Speaker 6] (3:13:18 - 3:13:19)
you have

[Speaker 7] (3:13:19 - 3:13:19)
absolutely.

[Speaker 6] (3:13:19 - 3:13:19)
you have

[Speaker 1] (3:13:19 - 3:13:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (3:13:20 - 3:13:23)
any sense of other towns, whether they have similar policies?

[Speaker 1] (3:13:23 - 3:13:27)
Um the financial policy

[Speaker 6] (3:13:27 - 3:13:27)
Like

[Speaker 1] (3:13:27 - 3:13:27)
That

[Speaker 6] (3:13:27 - 3:13:28)
the tax was, incentive

[Speaker 1] (3:13:28 - 3:13:30)
there was research done at the time that was prepared,

[Speaker 1] (3:13:30 - 3:13:32)
so there were definitely peers and comps.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:33 - 3:13:40)
That hasn't been revisited. That's on the docket for us to do this year is to go through those policies and update them.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:42 - 3:13:42)
That hasn't

[Speaker 7] (3:13:42 - 3:13:42)
How

[Speaker 1] (3:13:42 - 3:13:42)
been.

[Speaker 7] (3:13:42 - 3:13:44)
often have you had to go into retained earnings?

[Speaker 1] (3:13:50 - 3:13:57)
So the last couple years I don't think town meeting has appropriated retained earnings to reduce the rate, but obviously that was being done regularly.

[Speaker 5] (3:13:58 - 3:13:58)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:58 - 3:13:58)
Yes.

[Speaker 7] (3:13:59 - 3:13:59)
Mm

[Speaker 1] (3:13:59 - 3:13:59)
And

[Speaker 7] (3:13:59 - 3:13:59)
hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:59 - 3:14:01)
now if you go back three four five six years

[Speaker 7] (3:14:01 - 3:14:01)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:01 - 3:14:03)
every year that was being done

[Speaker 7] (3:14:03 - 3:14:06)
So let me understand. So the past three,

[Speaker 7] (3:14:06 - 3:14:12)
four, five years we were tapping into retained earnings because the rates were set so intentionally low.

[Speaker 7] (3:14:12 - 3:14:15)
Is that, am I No, getting so what it right? was is we were,

[Speaker 7] (3:14:15 - 3:14:25)
we had our policy of retained earnings was here and we were bringing in so much more over the retained earnings so we just, we had to take them, we just used that money to go back into it.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:25 - 3:14:26)
rather than raise rates,

[Speaker 7] (3:14:26 - 3:14:26)
Rather

[Speaker 1] (3:14:26 - 3:14:28)
and then we're in the opposite situation. Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:14:28 - 3:14:34)
so it's easier to do that as opposed to the perception of raising rates, I would assume.

[Speaker 5] (3:14:34 - 3:14:34)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:14:34 - 3:14:50)
Right so the the question is we have a policy of twenty percent twenty percent but what I wanna know is do we really need to have twenty percent the retained earnings is there as a safety mechanism and how often have we had a hit go into that safety mechanism? Can we drop retained earnings down to

[Speaker 7] (3:14:51 - 3:14:52)
Fifteen percent.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:52 - 3:14:52)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (3:14:53 - 3:14:53)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (3:14:53 - 3:14:54)
You

[Speaker 4] (3:14:54 - 3:14:54)
what

[Speaker 1] (3:14:54 - 3:14:54)
can

[Speaker 4] (3:14:54 - 3:14:54)
is

[Speaker 1] (3:14:54 - 3:14:58)
make that choice, I think, on a holistic level. You know when I look at

[Speaker 1] (3:14:59 - 3:15:06)
the water and sewer funds, there's a lot that can go wrong in operations that would require a big outlay on a short notice to

[Speaker 4] (3:15:06 - 3:15:06)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:07 - 3:15:21)
prepare critical infrastructure, so you do need some some level buffer there. Um and I look at, you know, on the combined financial statements, when we're looking at our bond rating they look at what resources we have to repay debt, and

[Speaker 7] (3:15:21 - 3:15:21)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:21 - 3:15:30)
the water and sewer debt is unique where it's dedicated to be repaid from rates and from these funds. So they're looking at, you know, what dedicated resources do you have piled up?

[Speaker 1] (3:15:31 - 3:15:33)
to service the debt that you're taking on

[Speaker 7] (3:15:33 - 3:15:34)
for Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:34 - 3:15:49)
your funds and then you may not need that level of qualification to get an SRF loan from the state but if you're going out to market that they're going to look at that so I think 20% like I think that's reasonable from that viewpoint my opinion but sure

[Speaker 5] (3:15:49 - 3:15:55)
So if we were to ask you before we take this vote, again we'd love to have Katie help take this with

[Speaker 1] (3:15:55 - 3:15:55)
yeah

[Speaker 5] (3:15:55 - 3:15:55)
us.

[Speaker 7] (3:15:57 - 3:15:58)
Only

[Speaker 5] (3:15:58 - 3:16:05)
In two weeks would you be able to come back and say oh here's a few other communities right around us or whatever that we know they're they're also at twenty percent or they're at fifteen

[Speaker 1] (3:16:05 - 3:16:06)
What their

[Speaker 5] (3:16:06 - 3:16:06)
percent?

[Speaker 1] (3:16:06 - 3:16:06)
policies are.

[Speaker 5] (3:16:06 - 3:16:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:16:07 - 3:16:12)
Yeah, I could take a look and I could definitely poll at least five, so we we have a basis. Um

[Speaker 5] (3:16:12 - 3:16:15)
I mean I think you know, I I think a little bit to what Mary Ellen's saying. I mean I would feel

[Speaker 5] (3:16:16 - 3:16:18)
less bad about this

[Speaker 7] (3:16:18 - 3:16:18)
Right,

[Speaker 5] (3:16:18 - 3:16:22)
if I felt like there's kind of a gun to my head to say well I hate it but we

[Speaker 1] (3:16:22 - 3:16:23)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (3:16:23 - 3:16:25)
really have to do this, you

[Speaker 1] (3:16:25 - 3:16:25)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (3:16:25 - 3:16:26)
know, what even even any of these options,

[Speaker 7] (3:16:26 - 3:16:27)
right.

[Speaker 5] (3:16:27 - 3:16:27)
you know.

[Speaker 1] (3:16:27 - 3:16:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:27 - 3:16:34)
And could you do the an option assuming we lowered it to 15% or lowered the retainers projection,

[Speaker 7] (3:16:34 - 3:16:37)
could you do an analysis of what that would look like also?

[Speaker 1] (3:16:37 - 3:16:39)
I could if I had a little bit of runway.

[Speaker 1] (3:16:40 - 3:16:41)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:16:42 - 3:16:42)
We can.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:43 - 3:16:57)
Because of the worst case scenario, what if you do decide to go with fifteen percent retained earnings? The next year if you find that your it's not working or you you know it's not enough then you can turn around and change that. But what what's the harm in attempting it, right?

[Speaker 1] (3:16:57 - 3:16:57)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (3:16:58 - 3:17:00)
Right, there's not much analysis, yeah, I mean that's option three basically,

[Speaker 7] (3:17:00 - 3:17:01)
Well, we

[Speaker 5] (3:17:01 - 3:17:01)
at fifteen

[Speaker 7] (3:17:01 - 3:17:01)
just we

[Speaker 5] (3:17:01 - 3:17:02)
percent we, retained.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:02 - 3:17:09)
we it's you know there's a risk and reward here. We have to make sure that on the retained earnings that we do think about what could possibly happen.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:10 - 3:17:22)
Right. What has happened over the last five and ten years. And then you also have to look at your calculations. I mean have you also calculated for the application of uh S_R_F_ loans for this August? We are applying right?

[Speaker 6] (3:17:22 - 3:17:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:22 - 3:17:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:17:22 - 3:17:30)
Yes, so I've factored into the ten year horizon, I've factored in what we know we're taking on for our capital and the funding mechanism. So if it's S_R_F_

[Speaker 7] (3:17:30 - 3:17:30)
Um what did

[Speaker 1] (3:17:30 - 3:17:30)
that's

[Speaker 7] (3:17:30 - 3:17:31)
you

[Speaker 1] (3:17:31 - 3:17:31)
plugged in.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:31 - 3:17:33)
what did you use for rates on that?

[Speaker 1] (3:17:33 - 3:17:35)
Um the S_R_F_ loan, it would have been

[Speaker 7] (3:17:35 - 3:17:37)
Did you use the S_R_F_ loan

[Speaker 1] (3:17:37 - 3:17:37)
yeah,

[Speaker 7] (3:17:37 - 3:17:37)
rates?

[Speaker 1] (3:17:37 - 3:17:38)
it would have been the two or the two point

[Speaker 1] (3:17:37 - 3:17:41)
further two point six and then we have other projects that we can't use that programme

[Speaker 7] (3:17:41 - 3:17:41)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (3:17:41 - 3:17:41)
for

[Speaker 7] (3:17:41 - 3:17:41)
okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:17:41 - 3:17:42)
so that would be

[Speaker 6] (3:17:42 - 3:17:43)
It's like one of them.

[Speaker 1] (3:17:43 - 3:17:46)
water metre replacements, that's a three million dollar project plus.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:47 - 3:17:47)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 1] (3:17:47 - 3:17:49)
That we couldn't get an S_R_F_ loan for, so

[Speaker 7] (3:17:49 - 3:17:49)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:17:49 - 3:17:50)
we'd either be

[Speaker 7] (3:17:50 - 3:17:50)
When borrowing we when

[Speaker 1] (3:17:50 - 3:17:50)
or

[Speaker 7] (3:17:50 - 3:17:51)
we

[Speaker 6] (3:17:51 - 3:17:52)
We just keep

[Speaker 1] (3:17:52 - 3:17:52)
whatnot.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:52 - 3:17:54)
kicking that cat down the road, don't we?

[Speaker 1] (3:17:54 - 3:17:58)
Yeah, yeah, but that can't get kicked much further, I don't think. So

[Speaker 7] (3:17:58 - 3:17:59)
We only have like another two years left on that.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:00 - 3:18:03)
Yeah, so stuff like that I use market, you know, current market rates

[Speaker 7] (3:18:03 - 3:18:03)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:03 - 3:18:04)
and that's subject to change.

[Speaker 7] (3:18:04 - 3:18:04)
Which?

[Speaker 7] (3:18:04 - 3:18:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (3:18:05 - 3:18:17)
I mean, you can you can kind of do the math here, right? If you, you were trying to just get to uh fifteen percent instead of twenty, you're gonna have a couple hundred thousand dollars less less in each account, right?

[Speaker 1] (3:18:17 - 3:18:18)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (3:18:18 - 3:18:20)
Um so if something comes along,

[Speaker 7] (3:18:20 - 3:18:24)
Well And you have to remember it's about ca it the I think for me this there's a lev

[Speaker 2] (3:18:31 - 3:18:33)
It's a two hundred and thirty five thousand dollar difference between

[Speaker 3] (3:18:34 - 3:18:35)
In each account.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:35 - 3:18:39)
Well I'm just I I'm sorry I was just looking at the water, but yeah, I mean

[Speaker 3] (3:18:39 - 3:18:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:40 - 3:18:40)
I'm sure it's

[Speaker 3] (3:18:40 - 3:18:40)
Yeah, it's

[Speaker 2] (3:18:40 - 3:18:41)
a rather

[Speaker 3] (3:18:41 - 3:18:41)
it's yeah,

[Speaker 2] (3:18:41 - 3:18:42)
it's an yep. another two hundred grand.

[Speaker 3] (3:18:42 - 3:18:43)
Yeah, it's something.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:43 - 3:18:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (3:18:44 - 3:18:44)
Yep. For sure.

[Speaker 3] (3:18:45 - 3:18:45)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:45 - 3:18:46)
Yeah Yeah, and I think

[Speaker 3] (3:18:46 - 3:18:49)
Could be the difference between what we need and what we don't have. But.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:49 - 3:19:00)
Right. Yeah, and I'll just chime into we are looking at the rate increases under the current structure of the you know we have different tiers for different levels of use, and we did a whole analysis for that that took like two years.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:00 - 3:19:01)
Um

[Speaker 4] (3:19:02 - 3:19:24)
I think going forward when we're looking at our true cost of water and sewer and seeing it rise to probably where it should be, we need to look at the rate structure and the tiering and see, you know, all these other communities I look at are you doing much more complex tiering systems. They have five, seven tiers. They break it out based by meter size, they break it out based on commercial industrial residential.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:25 - 3:19:26)
Um so you can get

[Speaker 4] (3:19:27 - 3:19:28)
a lot deeper with that.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:29 - 3:19:44)
Um I don't think that that's something that we can handle just internally. I think we would need a consultant and there are consultants out there that do that for towns to do a rate study and I don't think that's been done in Swampscott formally like by outside consultant in a long time and I don't like to recommend that because I know that costs money.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:45 - 3:19:54)
But um we may may get to a point very soon where we want to do that because maybe there's a way to equalize you know the the burden of

[Speaker 4] (3:19:55 - 3:19:56)
the water and sewer.

[Speaker 1] (3:19:56 - 3:20:06)
Why can't we just charge why can't we eliminate a base rate period and just charge for water because that would equalize everybody is it is it a mass general law that we have to have a base rate

[Speaker 4] (3:20:06 - 3:20:13)
I believe it is part of our requirements through the MWRA. That's that's what came

[Speaker 1] (3:20:13 - 3:20:13)
Let

[Speaker 4] (3:20:13 - 3:20:13)
up

[Speaker 1] (3:20:13 - 3:20:21)
me find let's find that out because you know when when we're talking about some of the larger apartment complexes um

[Speaker 1] (3:20:22 - 3:20:24)
wanting to charge more over there

[Speaker 2] (3:20:24 - 3:20:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:20:24 - 3:20:28)
because they only have, I think, one base rate or just a base rate per building,

[Speaker 2] (3:20:28 - 3:20:29)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:20:29 - 3:20:47)
that was the reason why we had m made some changes, but, you know, you have a lot of um one, you know, single people that live in there, a lot of retired people that live in there that aren't really using too much water. And then uh my fear is always putting the burden, putting a a higher burden on them.

[Speaker 2] (3:20:47 - 3:20:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:20:48 - 3:20:51)
See just because they live just because they live over and

[Speaker 5] (3:20:51 - 3:20:52)
Yeah, and that's

[Speaker 13] (3:20:52 - 3:20:52)
that's.

[Speaker 4] (3:20:52 - 3:20:52)
And that's

[Speaker 1] (3:20:52 - 3:21:02)
uh and there's one master meter right and that's that's something I really want to make sure we're looking at so that they are not charged they're not carrying a big burden. I'd rather see

[Speaker 5] (3:21:02 - 3:21:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:02 - 3:21:10)
well I'd rather see a higher rate on you know the irrigation systems and the pools and things like that things that are not necessities

[Speaker 1] (3:21:11 - 3:21:11)
but more

[Speaker 1] (3:21:12 - 3:21:13)
Luxuries.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:13 - 3:21:23)
We can get way deeper in the weeds on who picks up what if we do like a formal rate study. We can go way deeper than, like I can go fairly deep with this because I've been looking at it for a while,

[Speaker 4] (3:21:23 - 3:21:29)
but we can go a whole nother level if we have the resources to analyze all that data from the accounts.

[Speaker 3] (3:21:30 - 3:21:32)
But we're not doing that this year.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:32 - 3:21:32)
No.

[Speaker 3] (3:21:32 - 3:21:33)
We don't have the time to do

[Speaker 4] (3:21:33 - 3:21:33)
Not

[Speaker 3] (3:21:33 - 3:21:33)
that.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:33 - 3:21:34)
We're not going to be doing that for a few years.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:34 - 3:21:34)
No.

[Speaker 3] (3:21:34 - 3:21:35)
Yeah, no,

[Speaker 3] (3:21:35 - 3:21:35)
but we...

[Speaker 4] (3:21:35 - 3:21:38)
But, and to your point with the base rate,

[Speaker 4] (3:21:38 - 3:21:39)
I mean if you eliminate a base rate.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:39 - 3:21:45)
A that's revenue you can count on because your number of accounts generally stays stable or increases.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:45 - 3:21:45)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:45 - 3:21:48)
And it's based on the number of accounts and it's assessed on that only,

[Speaker 1] (3:21:48 - 3:21:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:48 - 3:21:56)
versus if you shift all everything into consumption, you're adding another degree of fluctuation uh depending on how people use or don't use water.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:57 - 3:21:57)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:21:57 - 3:21:58)
It's just another comment.

[Speaker 1] (3:21:59 - 3:22:00)
Okay, so what's the plan?

[Speaker 3] (3:22:00 - 3:22:03)
So before I get a really bad reputation for facilitating a meeting

[Speaker 1] (3:22:03 - 3:22:04)
You're already there.

[Speaker 2] (3:22:04 - 3:22:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (3:22:04 - 3:22:04)
So

[Speaker 3] (3:22:05 - 3:22:05)
Um

[Speaker 3] (3:22:05 - 3:22:08)
Uh I think we need just a little bit more information

[Speaker 4] (3:22:08 - 3:22:08)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (3:22:08 - 3:22:13)
um primarily about, from my perspective, policy about the twenty percent that

[Speaker 1] (3:22:13 - 3:22:13)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (3:22:13 - 3:22:13)
um

[Speaker 4] (3:22:13 - 3:22:13)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:22:13 - 3:22:13)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (3:22:13 - 3:22:20)
anything else in particular for next week or two weeks from now that Patrick needs to

[Speaker 3] (3:22:21 - 3:22:22)
Bring forward?

[Speaker 1] (3:22:22 - 3:22:22)
I

[Speaker 2] (3:22:22 - 3:22:23)
I mean

[Speaker 1] (3:22:23 - 3:22:23)
mean we'll just talk about

[Speaker 3] (3:22:23 - 3:22:23)
or

[Speaker 1] (3:22:23 - 3:22:23)
the policy,

[Speaker 3] (3:22:23 - 3:22:24)
this.

[Speaker 2] (3:22:24 - 3:22:24)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (3:22:24 - 3:22:24)
right?

[Speaker 2] (3:22:24 - 3:22:33)
I mean, I, I, I think, I think looking at the looking at an elderly and disabled tax relief program, water bill relief program, um and how

[Speaker 2] (3:22:33 - 3:22:51)
city of Revere and maybe other neighboring communities on the North Shore uh are handling this I think would be uh would be interesting and if we need to know uh you know if if we need town meeting approval to add something to uh to a water sewer bill, um let's find that out from K_P_

[Speaker 4] (3:22:52 - 3:22:52)
Sure.

[Speaker 5] (3:22:55 - 3:22:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:22:55 - 3:22:59)
Yeah so I I think the big explanation is why do we have to be at twenty percent.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:01 - 3:23:02)
It's just a policy. That's all.

[Speaker 6] (3:23:03 - 3:23:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:23:03 - 3:23:04)
Yeah, but it's

[Speaker 3] (3:23:04 - 3:23:04)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (3:23:04 - 3:23:04)
also,

[Speaker 3] (3:23:04 - 3:23:04)
but

[Speaker 1] (3:23:04 - 3:23:04)
But

[Speaker 2] (3:23:04 - 3:23:05)
but it's also there

[Speaker 1] (3:23:05 - 3:23:05)
it's also,

[Speaker 2] (3:23:05 - 3:23:05)
for,

[Speaker 1] (3:23:05 - 3:23:05)
but why?

[Speaker 2] (3:23:05 - 3:23:06)
it's also there

[Speaker 3] (3:23:06 - 3:23:06)
it's

[Speaker 2] (3:23:06 - 3:23:06)
for.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:06 - 3:23:07)
more than the policy, right?

[Speaker 3] (3:23:07 - 3:23:09)
It's the expected

[Speaker 1] (3:23:09 - 3:23:10)
It affects expenditures, other things.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:10 - 3:23:10)
really.

[Speaker 4] (3:23:10 - 3:23:13)
I think to have a policy and to meet your policies is important,

[Speaker 4] (3:23:13 - 3:23:17)
but I think it's a fair question to say is our policy in

[Speaker 1] (3:23:17 - 3:23:17)
Two birds.

[Speaker 4] (3:23:17 - 3:23:20)
line with what it should be? Could it be less? Should it be more?

[Speaker 5] (3:23:20 - 3:23:20)
I don't

[Speaker 4] (3:23:20 - 3:23:20)
So

[Speaker 5] (3:23:20 - 3:23:20)
know.

[Speaker 4] (3:23:20 - 3:23:23)
that's what I'll answer for you.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:23 - 3:23:23)
Great.

[Speaker 1] (3:23:24 - 3:23:24)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:23:24 - 3:23:25)
Awesome.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:25 - 3:23:26)
Okay, to be continued.

[Speaker 1] (3:23:26 - 3:23:26)
CPA.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:26 - 3:23:27)
Moving on.

[Speaker 4] (3:23:27 - 3:23:28)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:23:28 - 3:23:29)
CPA.

[Speaker 1] (3:23:30 - 3:23:30)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (3:23:30 - 3:23:34)
Okay, this will be really quick, I promise. Sorry I went on and on.

[Speaker 1] (3:23:34 - 3:23:35)
It's your countdown.

[Speaker 3] (3:23:36 - 3:23:36)
Is it my movie?

[Speaker 4] (3:23:37 - 3:23:51)
So uh really quickly I just wanted to uh acknowledge the c that the Community Preservation Act surcharge has come online for FY26 so that's included in tax bills starting now. Um

[Speaker 4] (3:23:51 - 3:24:16)
I have a slide with the how it's calculated on the screen, and that includes the hundred thousand dollar automatic exemption. Um so this is a one point five percent surcharge on the um property tax that you are assessed. So your actual tax assessment for the year um you're charged one point five percent on that. You get an exemption of a hundred thousand dollars of value, um

[Speaker 4] (3:24:17 - 3:24:21)
And the calculation is there. So there will be

[Speaker 4] (3:24:23 - 3:24:50)
A means tested exemption that's also available to uh taxpayers that they can apply for through the Board of Assessors. The applications will be accepted January 1st, just like all other tax exemption and abatement applications are. So after you get your actual tax bill with the new tax rate, you'll be able to fill out a form and uh provide some income information and if you qualify you'll be able to get um the CPA surcharge waived for that particular tax year. You would have to apply for that each year.

[Speaker 4] (3:24:51 - 3:25:16)
And the form will be available in the customer service office, the town hall with the assessors, and we'll put it on the website, and we'll probably put it um uh make it available at the senior centre too and we'll inform Heidi how to, you know, explain that to to folks, uh her and her staff. I'm sure they'd be happy to do that. And the only other thing I want to add is that it we build out approximately three hundred seventy five thousand dollars for the CPA surcharge and that's for the first half of the

[Speaker 4] (3:25:16 - 3:25:17)
half of the year.

[Speaker 3] (3:25:18 - 3:25:19)
So when was the f when when's

[Speaker 1] (3:25:19 - 3:25:19)
What?

[Speaker 3] (3:25:19 - 3:25:21)
the first time people will see this on their tax bills?

[Speaker 4] (3:25:21 - 3:25:23)
It's it's it's in in your preliminary

[Speaker 7] (3:25:23 - 3:25:23)
When

[Speaker 4] (3:25:23 - 3:25:23)
tax

[Speaker 7] (3:25:23 - 3:25:24)
you build now.

[Speaker 4] (3:25:24 - 3:25:25)
assessment now,

[Speaker 2] (3:25:25 - 3:25:25)
Seven.

[Speaker 4] (3:25:25 - 3:25:30)
and then you'll see it on the actual tax bill. It'll be broken out. You'll see the actual assessment for the year.

[Speaker 3] (3:25:30 - 3:25:31)
So people have them now.

[Speaker 1] (3:25:31 - 3:25:31)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:25:31 - 3:25:33)
Yep. It's in the it's in there now.

[Speaker 3] (3:25:36 - 3:25:39)
And then maybe why

[Speaker 3] (3:25:43 - 3:25:46)
Why just the 375? You say 375 and it'll be 750.

[Speaker 4] (3:25:49 - 3:26:00)
Yeah, so that's, so we do have assessors do a preliminary taxes assessment, that's your first and second quarter tax bills that's based on last year's tax, it's half of last year's tax,

[Speaker 4] (3:26:00 - 3:26:03)
so you get, you, that's so we build out first and secon we have

[Speaker 3] (3:26:03 - 3:26:03)
Okay,

[Speaker 4] (3:26:03 - 3:26:04)
it calculated

[Speaker 3] (3:26:04 - 3:26:04)
that's

[Speaker 4] (3:26:04 - 3:26:04)
out

[Speaker 3] (3:26:04 - 3:26:04)
just the

[Speaker 4] (3:26:04 - 3:26:04)
first

[Speaker 3] (3:26:04 - 3:26:05)
first

[Speaker 4] (3:26:05 - 3:26:05)
and

[Speaker 3] (3:26:05 - 3:26:05)
two

[Speaker 4] (3:26:05 - 3:26:05)
second

[Speaker 3] (3:26:05 - 3:26:05)
quarters.

[Speaker 4] (3:26:05 - 3:26:14)
quarter so that three hundred seventy five thousand dollars is what we're getting on the CPA surcharge from first and second quarter bills. So we would anticipate for the full year you'd get

[Speaker 4] (3:26:15 - 3:26:16)
um double that,

[Speaker 3] (3:26:16 - 3:26:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:26:17 - 3:26:19)
less any exemptions that are applied.

[Speaker 3] (3:26:21 - 3:26:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:26:22 - 3:26:27)
And that's really all I have. I'm not gonna talk about the committee. I don't know if we need to

[Speaker 3] (3:26:27 - 3:26:27)
No.

[Speaker 4] (3:26:27 - 3:26:28)
do that tonight, but

[Speaker 3] (3:26:29 - 3:26:29)
Don't

[Speaker 1] (3:26:29 - 3:26:39)
Well, just to make it really just to make it really clear for everybody who's still watching. So if somebody has a ten thousand dollar tax bill, what what is this gonna look like for them?

[Speaker 4] (3:26:40 - 3:26:50)
So if you have a ten thousand dollar tax bill, you're getting an exemption on your first hundred thousand dollars of your property's value. So at the current tax rate, that's

[Speaker 4] (3:26:51 - 3:26:54)
about you know a hundred and fourteen dollars that's

[Speaker 4] (3:26:56 - 3:27:11)
I'm sorry, eleven hundred and forty seven dollars, that's late. That's exempted. So you take a ten thousand dollar tax bill, you can back out eleven forty seven and that's your, you know, estimated C_P_A_ surcharge for the year, and then that's gets paid quarterly through your tax bill.

[Speaker 3] (3:27:12 - 3:27:16)
I think it's hard to say when you start with the tax bill amount.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:16 - 3:27:17)
I shoulda start with the Yeah, assessed value.

[Speaker 4] (3:27:17 - 3:27:17)
start with the assessed

[Speaker 3] (3:27:17 - 3:27:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:27:17 - 3:27:18)
value. I I mean the calculation

[Speaker 3] (3:27:18 - 3:27:19)
They're right here.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:19 - 3:27:20)
I already I have it. I there.

[Speaker 4] (3:27:20 - 3:27:20)
put

[Speaker 3] (3:27:20 - 3:27:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:27:20 - 3:27:22)
So I can put that

[Speaker 4] (3:27:22 - 3:27:25)
I don't know if that's helpful to put on the website, I can do that.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:25 - 3:27:26)
Can you please put that on the website?

[Speaker 4] (3:27:26 - 3:27:26)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:27 - 3:27:27)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (3:27:28 - 3:27:29)
I think it's close to that,

[Speaker 1] (3:27:29 - 3:27:29)
It

[Speaker 3] (3:27:29 - 3:27:29)
but is actually

[Speaker 1] (3:27:29 - 3:27:30)
there.

[Speaker 3] (3:27:30 - 3:27:30)
ten

[Speaker 5] (3:27:30 - 3:27:30)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (3:27:30 - 3:27:32)
thousand is probably close to that.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:32 - 3:27:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:27:32 - 3:27:33)
It it it does.

[Speaker 1] (3:27:33 - 3:27:35)
Just as long as it's on the website, people can

[Speaker 4] (3:27:35 - 3:27:40)
Yeah, I think w I think I put this up in the collector's office too, so if people come in have questions we can point to it type of thing.

[Speaker 2] (3:27:40 - 3:27:46)
Is it isn't there a link to community preservation dot org that actually has the calculation? Like when you

[Speaker 5] (3:27:46 - 3:27:46)
It's

[Speaker 2] (3:27:46 - 3:27:46)
can

[Speaker 5] (3:27:46 - 3:27:46)
just me.

[Speaker 8] (3:27:47 - 3:27:47)
No,

[Speaker 3] (3:27:47 - 3:27:47)
Oh,

[Speaker 8] (3:27:47 - 3:27:47)
my phone

[Speaker 3] (3:27:47 - 3:27:48)
it's all is of us.

[Speaker 8] (3:27:48 - 3:27:50)
driving me crazy, it's over here now. There you're driving.

[Speaker 5] (3:27:52 - 3:27:52)
A

[Speaker 8] (3:27:52 - 3:27:52)
They

[Speaker 5] (3:27:52 - 3:27:52)
big

[Speaker 8] (3:27:52 - 3:27:52)
do

[Speaker 5] (3:27:52 - 3:27:52)
just

[Speaker 8] (3:27:52 - 3:27:52)
make money.

[Speaker 3] (3:27:52 - 3:27:54)
little fly infestation.

[Speaker 8] (3:27:54 - 3:27:54)
It

[Speaker 3] (3:27:54 - 3:27:55)
Yes,

[Speaker 8] (3:27:55 - 3:27:55)
is?

[Speaker 3] (3:27:55 - 3:27:56)
there definitely is a lot of information

[Speaker 2] (3:27:56 - 3:27:57)
So there's

[Speaker 3] (3:27:57 - 3:27:57)
in

[Speaker 2] (3:27:57 - 3:27:57)
a lot of information,

[Speaker 3] (3:27:57 - 3:27:57)
the trades.

[Speaker 2] (3:27:57 - 3:28:02)
but is there a calculator so residents could go on and potentially get benefitted

[Speaker 3] (3:28:02 - 3:28:02)
I

[Speaker 2] (3:28:02 - 3:28:02)
out of that?

[Speaker 3] (3:28:02 - 3:28:03)
would bet there is,

[Speaker 2] (3:28:03 - 3:28:03)
I thought

[Speaker 3] (3:28:03 - 3:28:03)
but I'm not

[Speaker 2] (3:28:03 - 3:28:06)
that sure. I thought there is, but i if I can locate it, uh I'll

[Speaker 4] (3:28:06 - 3:28:06)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (3:28:06 - 3:28:06)
uh send

[Speaker 4] (3:28:06 - 3:28:06)
if you

[Speaker 2] (3:28:06 - 3:28:07)
you a link.

[Speaker 4] (3:28:07 - 3:28:12)
find it send it to me, um because that would be useful too. If people are curious they can just plug it in at home.

[Speaker 2] (3:28:12 - 3:28:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (3:28:12 - 3:28:13)
That's great.

[Speaker 2] (3:28:13 - 3:28:14)
Try to make it easier.

[Speaker 3] (3:28:14 - 3:28:16)
Although they Okay. could be on their tax bill, so

[Speaker 8] (3:28:17 - 3:28:17)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (3:28:17 - 3:28:17)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (3:28:17 - 3:28:17)
they're

[Speaker 4] (3:28:17 - 3:28:17)
they

[Speaker 3] (3:28:17 - 3:28:17)
gonna know

[Speaker 4] (3:28:17 - 3:28:18)
can

[Speaker 3] (3:28:18 - 3:28:18)
what

[Speaker 4] (3:28:18 - 3:28:18)
call

[Speaker 3] (3:28:18 - 3:28:18)
it is.

[Speaker 4] (3:28:18 - 3:28:18)
us and talk about

[Speaker 2] (3:28:18 - 3:28:19)
Yep

[Speaker 4] (3:28:19 - 3:28:19)
it. That's fine.

[Speaker 2] (3:28:18 - 3:28:19)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (3:28:19 - 3:28:19)
it. That's fine.

[Speaker 2] (3:28:19 - 3:28:20)
It's not authentic.

[Speaker 1] (3:28:22 - 3:28:37)
Okay, but we do need to, on the committee side, uh we're gonna take the pain, we might as well start planning for the good part of it as well. Um so Diane, where do we stand uh we issued kind of a notice to all the relevant committees to

[Speaker 1] (3:28:38 - 3:28:42)
Are we giving them a deadline or anything in terms of when they're supposed to get it back to us with their

[Speaker 5] (3:28:42 - 3:28:43)
end of July or August.

[Speaker 1] (3:28:43 - 3:28:43)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (3:28:43 - 3:28:45)
Because not all of them meet.

[Speaker 5] (3:28:45 - 3:28:47)
Like I had a couple of days after meeting again.

[Speaker 5] (3:28:47 - 3:28:52)
So probably end of August, maybe first of September we should know.

[Speaker 1] (3:28:52 - 3:28:54)
Yeah, let's try to yeah, get them back by the end of August

[Speaker 5] (3:28:54 - 3:28:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:28:55 - 3:28:55)
so we can.

[Speaker 5] (3:28:56 - 3:28:59)
and we just set it up on the website for the description and everything that like

[Speaker 1] (3:28:59 - 3:29:00)
Yes. Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:00 - 3:29:06)
and then I'll advertise by seven that time that I'll put out a notice that right? I already said it. We'll be able to start a plan if we need to.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:06 - 3:29:07)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:07 - 3:29:07)
So

[Speaker 1] (3:29:07 - 3:29:08)
For the one that we

[Speaker 5] (3:29:08 - 3:29:09)
for the one person that that's correct.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:09 - 3:29:10)
that we nominate.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:10 - 3:29:11)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:11 - 3:29:13)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:13 - 3:29:14)
Should be good.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:15 - 3:29:16)
Thank you, Patrick.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:17 - 3:29:18)
Thank you, Diane.

[Speaker 6] (3:29:18 - 3:29:18)
Thank you, Patrick.

[Speaker 7] (3:29:18 - 3:29:19)
Yeah, you're welcome.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:19 - 3:29:20)
Thank you, Patrick.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:20 - 3:29:40)
All right. Uh so consent agenda. We have a long consent agenda tonight uh that I believe we can do all in one motion for part of the consent agenda. And that's because we basically have to revote everything we did at the last meeting because uh Marilyn was on the video and

[Speaker 5] (3:29:40 - 3:29:42)
She can't be in the car.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:42 - 3:29:43)
The car or whatever, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:43 - 3:29:47)
Yeah um so we weren't in person so we had to uh we have to redo these.

[Speaker 8] (3:29:47 - 3:29:48)
All right, motion to approve

[Speaker 5] (3:29:48 - 3:29:49)
Can we just,

[Speaker 8] (3:29:49 - 3:29:49)
agenda.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:49 - 3:29:51)
hold on a second, can we just remove the minutes?

[Speaker 5] (3:29:51 - 3:29:52)
We have the minutes in here, right?

[Speaker 1] (3:29:53 - 3:29:53)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (3:29:53 - 3:29:56)
Just remove the minutes. If we could just boot the minutes to the next meeting.

[Speaker 1] (3:29:56 - 3:29:57)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (3:29:57 - 3:29:57)
That's fine.

[Speaker 8] (3:29:58 - 3:30:00)
Motion to approve the consent agenda,

[Speaker 8] (3:30:00 - 3:30:01)
sans minutes.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:01 - 3:30:02)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:03 - 3:30:04)
All in favor?

[Speaker 5] (3:30:04 - 3:30:04)
Aye.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:04 - 3:30:04)
Aye.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:04 - 3:30:04)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:05 - 3:30:05)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:07 - 3:30:10)
Okay um select board time.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:14 - 3:30:19)
Okay, yep, so I had a whole list of things and I've forgot them all now.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:19 - 3:30:19)
But

[Speaker 5] (3:30:19 - 3:30:27)
Um thank you to to Nancy Schultz for letting us be part of the reading on July 3rd, it was a very very nice ceremony.

[Speaker 8] (3:30:27 - 3:30:28)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:28 - 3:30:35)
Um that was really well done. Kelly Kittiv, Nancy Schultz and Margaret Solimar coordinated that and Ralph Edwards also.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:35 - 3:30:43)
Um special congratulations to Danielle Strauss who is retiring tomorrow or the next day um

[Speaker 9] (3:30:43 - 3:30:43)
Okay. Oh.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:43 - 3:30:44)
after

[Speaker 1] (3:30:44 - 3:30:44)
Next week.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:44 - 3:30:45)
twenty years.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:45 - 3:30:46)
This Thursday.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:46 - 3:30:47)
This Thursday.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:47 - 3:30:48)
This Thur Thursday.

[Speaker 9] (3:30:48 - 3:30:48)
Chat.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:48 - 3:30:48)
July tenth.

[Speaker 9] (3:30:48 - 3:30:49)
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:30:49 - 3:30:49)
Oh.

[Speaker 9] (3:30:49 - 3:30:49)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (3:30:49 - 3:31:03)
And uh big thanks to her and what she's accomplished over the past twenty years. She certainly solidified her place in swampscot history. She uh the sheer number of recreation events that are on the calendar for the summer alone is

[Speaker 5] (3:31:04 - 3:31:15)
is off the charts, and they they did a beautiful job with the fourth of July. So big congratulations to her and Jack and camera lingo, who really have done a lot of work over the past couple months.

[Speaker 5] (3:31:16 - 3:31:17)
Um

[Speaker 1] (3:31:17 - 3:31:17)
They're here.

[Speaker 5] (3:31:17 - 3:31:28)
Fourth of July went well, the races were well attended. Thank you for anchor food pantry, the football team that helped us out. Uh Mary Ellen and I were there, David was there and

[Speaker 10] (3:31:28 - 3:31:28)
Was

[Speaker 5] (3:31:28 - 3:31:28)
um

[Speaker 10] (3:31:28 - 3:31:28)
it?

[Speaker 5] (3:31:28 - 3:31:29)
Doug was there.

[Speaker 8] (3:31:29 - 3:31:29)
So is so is Doug.

[Speaker 5] (3:31:29 - 3:31:31)
Doug was there too. Sorry, Doug.

[Speaker 10] (3:31:31 - 3:31:32)
You see him racing?

[Speaker 1] (3:31:32 - 3:31:33)
You were busy, you were busy

[Speaker 5] (3:31:33 - 3:31:33)
I

[Speaker 1] (3:31:33 - 3:31:33)
cheering

[Speaker 5] (3:31:33 - 3:31:33)
was

[Speaker 1] (3:31:33 - 3:31:33)
people

[Speaker 5] (3:31:33 - 3:31:33)
really

[Speaker 1] (3:31:33 - 3:31:34)
on.

[Speaker 5] (3:31:34 - 3:31:37)
busy yelling at little kids, yes. Um yes, so

[Speaker 10] (3:31:37 - 3:31:38)
Less sixty plus.

[Speaker 5] (3:31:38 - 3:31:39)
it was a nice community event.

[Speaker 5] (3:31:40 - 3:31:41)
And um

[Speaker 5] (3:31:42 - 3:31:49)
I already thanked Gino Crestor and the DPW guys for helping out with this trash scenario and that's I think that's all I've got.

[Speaker 8] (3:31:50 - 3:32:10)
And the recreation uh events continue this weekend. Uh Bent Water Day at the beach, uh two to eight, the Fishermen's Beach on Saturday. Hopefully the weather uh cooperates as it has uh in the previous five years. Um but I'll look forward to seeing everybody out there uh at the beach for a fun day of music and sun and

[Speaker 8] (3:32:12 - 3:32:14)
Beers from uh Bentwater.

[Speaker 1] (3:32:16 - 3:32:17)
Thank you. Are you on?

[Speaker 11] (3:32:17 - 3:32:32)
I just want to give another shout out to Gino and the Solid Waste Advisory Committee for all your hard work. And the guys at DPW, this is not easy times dealing with a trash strike.

[Speaker 11] (3:32:32 - 3:32:39)
Um, but even though there are benefits, like your tan and things like that, but I I I think you could find a tan another way.

[Speaker 12] (3:32:39 - 3:32:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 11] (3:32:40 - 3:32:54)
And the other thing is I wanna um thank and just point out that Dr. Arthur Freedman, a local veterinarian, uh h uh hosted the rabies clinic again. He's I think it's the seventh rabies clinic that he's done and I

[Speaker 11] (3:32:54 - 3:33:01)
He's um he's a real gym. He helps a lot of people and when there are veterans that come up uh he doesn't even charge them

[Speaker 14] (3:33:01 - 3:33:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 11] (3:33:01 - 3:33:11)
anything. He he helps out and he he actually um brings him into his clinic and gives them very special pricing. So he's he's a great guy, and I really appreciate his help.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:13 - 3:33:14)
Second,

[Speaker 1] (3:33:14 - 3:33:16)
third and fourth, all those?

[Speaker 5] (3:33:16 - 3:33:17)
Motion to adjourn? Or

[Speaker 1] (3:33:17 - 3:33:17)
I'm just

[Speaker 5] (3:33:17 - 3:33:17)
no?

[Speaker 1] (3:33:17 - 3:33:20)
going to try to tie along with the thank yous and everything.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:21 - 3:33:22)
To Danielle,

[Speaker 1] (3:33:22 - 3:33:24)
to Danielle Strauss,

[Speaker 1] (3:33:24 - 3:33:25)
Danielle Leonard,

[Speaker 1] (3:33:25 - 3:33:26)
Mary Ellen,

[Speaker 1] (3:33:26 - 3:33:28)
the games are a lot of fun.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:28 - 3:33:36)
And Gino and everybody in town hall pulling together not only the fireworks was amazing,

[Speaker 1] (3:33:36 - 3:33:39)
with the trash situation.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:40 - 3:33:42)
beautiful beach days,

[Speaker 5] (3:33:42 - 3:33:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:42 - 3:33:48)
uh a lot going on basically um and really kind of an ideal, you know a little seaside town weekend.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:49 - 3:33:51)
So, except for the trash not being picked up.

[Speaker 15] (3:33:51 - 3:33:51)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:33:51 - 3:33:51)
But

[Speaker 15] (3:33:51 - 3:33:53)
One of the things I forgot to mention,

[Speaker 15] (3:33:53 - 3:34:03)
I don't want to keep the prolongedness meeting, but ironically enough, King's Beach has been one of the worst beaches closed all the time. On July 3rd, when all the other beaches predominantly were closed on the Commonwealth,

[Speaker 15] (3:34:03 - 3:34:04)
King's Beach was open.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:04 - 3:34:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:04 - 3:34:06)
Yeah? Is that because of the U_V_

[Speaker 15] (3:34:06 - 3:34:09)
A hundred percent because of the U_V_

[Speaker 5] (3:34:09 - 3:34:10)
Well, well

[Speaker 8] (3:34:10 - 3:34:10)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:10 - 3:34:12)
there's been really impressive numbers.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:12 - 3:34:15)
Talk about burying the lead. In the last minute you want to say okay, uh...

[Speaker 5] (3:34:15 - 3:34:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:16 - 3:34:16)
yeah.

[Speaker 8] (3:34:16 - 3:34:17)
Oh.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:17 - 3:34:17)
Okay,

[Speaker 5] (3:34:17 - 3:34:17)
How's

[Speaker 15] (3:34:17 - 3:34:17)
that that's

[Speaker 5] (3:34:17 - 3:34:18)
the seaweed working out?

[Speaker 15] (3:34:19 - 3:34:21)
Seaweed is a lot of maintenance, but

[Speaker 5] (3:34:21 - 3:34:22)
Are we able to get it?

[Speaker 15] (3:34:22 - 3:34:25)
we're down there on a regular basis, yep, removing the seaweed.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:25 - 3:34:29)
Good. Oh one thing I did want to ask you, the showers at Phillips.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:29 - 3:34:30)
Yeah, that's come up quite a bit.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:31 - 3:34:33)
So we had to shut the water off because they're both leaking.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:33 - 3:34:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:34 - 3:34:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:35 - 3:34:39)
pots which sh had to get uh shipped in. But we're on it and

[Speaker 5] (3:34:40 - 3:34:40)
Okay.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:40 - 3:34:43)
hopefully it'll be on this week. It's both uh shower and the foot

[Speaker 5] (3:34:43 - 3:34:43)
Yeah,

[Speaker 15] (3:34:43 - 3:34:43)
wash.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:43 - 3:34:44)
yeah.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:44 - 3:34:44)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:44 - 3:34:45)
People call.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:45 - 3:34:47)
We've had issues with those from day one unfortunately.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:47 - 3:34:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (3:34:48 - 3:34:48)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:49 - 3:34:49)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:49 - 3:34:51)
The motion to adjourn? So moved.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:51 - 3:34:52)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:52 - 3:34:53)
All in favor?

[Speaker 8] (3:34:53 - 3:34:53)
Aye.

[Speaker 5] (3:34:53 - 3:34:53)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:53 - 3:34:54)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:54 - 3:34:54)
Night.

[Speaker 1] (3:34:55 - 3:34:55)
Thank you.