[Speaker 1] (10:33 - 10:39)
uh to order. Um first on the agenda is approval of past meeting minutes. Krista, do you have any for us? If not we can get that.

[Speaker 2] (10:40 - 10:41)
Uh we have.

[Speaker 3] (10:41 - 10:41)
Uh.

[Speaker 1] (10:41 - 10:48)
You did. Can you pull them up on the I have not had a chance to review them. Can pull them up on the screen, we can get these approved and

[Speaker 2] (10:48 - 10:48)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (10:49 - 10:50)
on to the next agenda item.

[Speaker 2] (10:54 - 10:56)
They were long because we had what five sub-plans

[Speaker 4] (10:56 - 10:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (10:56 - 10:57)
or something?

[Speaker 1] (10:57 - 10:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (11:01 - 11:04)
I recall the decisions quite thoroughly.

[Speaker 2] (11:04 - 11:04)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (11:04 - 11:04)
So

[Speaker 2] (11:04 - 11:05)
they all got approved.

[Speaker 1] (11:05 - 11:05)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (11:07 - 11:09)
Um there were conditions around it,

[Speaker 2] (11:09 - 11:09)
just

[Speaker 1] (11:09 - 11:10)
Right, a handful of them.

[Speaker 5] (11:16 - 11:16)
Hmm.

[Speaker 1] (12:03 - 12:07)
Yeah, for whatever reason I can't access the documents shared on SharePoint for some reason.

[Speaker 6] (12:09 - 12:09)
Oh.

[Speaker 6] (12:10 - 12:10)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (12:12 - 12:13)
But all good.

[Speaker 1] (12:18 - 12:21)
Yep, looks great. If you wanna just slowly scroll through.

[Speaker 1] (12:23 - 12:25)
Anybody else need to look at it on the screen?

[Speaker 7] (12:25 - 12:25)
Just make it as

[Speaker 8] (12:25 - 12:27)
I do, 'cause I also can't access it.

[Speaker 1] (12:28 - 12:30)
Okay, if you could just make it as the screen as

[Speaker 1] (12:31 - 12:32)
big as you can.

[Speaker 8] (12:33 - 12:33)
There you go.

[Speaker 1] (12:35 - 12:35)
Good?

[Speaker 1] (13:10 - 13:11)
Yeah, you can go to next page.

[Speaker 1] (13:12 - 13:13)
You good at the campus?

[Speaker 8] (13:13 - 13:14)
Is that the one we asked for a fence?

[Speaker 1] (13:16 - 13:24)
That one um that was the one I believe they asked for s we conditioned it on a bunch of screening our provided along the f the existing fence line

[Speaker 9] (13:24 - 13:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (13:24 - 13:28)
and additional screening around the utilities, the addition of new utilities.

[Speaker 9] (13:29 - 13:29)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (14:05 - 14:09)
Is that the official title of the HDC, Olmstead Historic District Commission?

[Speaker 2] (14:09 - 14:09)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (14:09 - 14:10)
Oh.

[Speaker 2] (14:10 - 14:12)
Well, no, it's just the Historic District Commission.

[Speaker 8] (14:12 - 14:16)
It's a historic district commission and and yeah, I just take the Olmsted out.

[Speaker 2] (14:16 - 14:18)
Probably take the Olmsted out, I guess.

[Speaker 8] (14:19 - 14:25)
Because it the historic district commission also sits over the Fish House, uh the train depot and the cemetery.

[Speaker 2] (14:26 - 14:26)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (14:27 - 14:29)
And I think that's a historic district.

[Speaker 10] (14:38 - 14:38)
Okay.

[Speaker 10] (14:49 - 14:50)
That's Manson Road.

[Speaker 10] (14:52 - 14:52)
Okay then.

[Speaker 2] (15:28 - 15:29)
Mm. That's not good.

[Speaker 1] (15:42 - 15:42)
That looks good.

[Speaker 1] (15:44 - 15:45)
Aspen road.

[Speaker 1] (16:32 - 16:33)
Krista, did you write these minutes?

[Speaker 11] (16:34 - 16:38)
Um I wrote the decisions and then

[Speaker 1] (16:38 - 16:42)
Whoever wrote them gets major props for accurately describing the

[Speaker 2] (16:42 - 16:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (16:43 - 16:47)
intensive uh comments and constructive comments that Jer made on the roofline. So props

[Speaker 8] (16:47 - 16:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (16:47 - 16:48)
to whoever wrote that.

[Speaker 11] (16:48 - 16:50)
Yeah, they're from the dis the decisions.

[Speaker 1] (16:50 - 16:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (16:51 - 16:54)
No, but that they're well worded, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (16:54 - 16:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 10] (17:08 - 17:09)
Okay.

[Speaker 10] (17:11 - 17:11)
Five.

[Speaker 10] (17:35 - 17:35)
Good.

[Speaker 10] (18:26 - 18:26)
Hmm.

[Speaker 1] (18:27 - 18:29)
We keep going about other business.

[Speaker 1] (18:31 - 18:31)
When

[Speaker 1] (18:39 - 18:40)
Perfect.

[Speaker 11] (18:46 - 18:46)
I don't know.

[Speaker 1] (18:46 - 18:47)
Is that it? Okay.

[Speaker 10] (18:49 - 18:50)
Well done.

[Speaker 1] (18:50 - 18:54)
Think other than that minor administrative change you just made, they look they look good.

[Speaker 2] (18:54 - 18:55)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (18:55 - 18:57)
It's an emotion to approve.

[Speaker 8] (18:58 - 18:58)
So moved.

[Speaker 1] (18:59 - 19:01)
Is there a second? All those in favor?

[Speaker 2] (19:02 - 19:02)
Hi.

[Speaker 8] (19:02 - 19:02)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (19:02 - 19:04)
Alright, looks good.

[Speaker 2] (19:04 - 19:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (19:04 - 19:05)
Thank you Krista.

[Speaker 1] (19:06 - 19:11)
Next on our agenda we have our friends from the Renewable Energy Committee.

[Speaker 1] (19:13 - 19:15)
Climate Action Resilience Committee.

[Speaker 2] (19:20 - 19:21)
I do remember.

[Speaker 1] (19:21 - 19:23)
Yes, I vaguely, town meeting.

[Speaker 1] (19:25 - 19:26)
Perfect. Um

[Speaker 1] (19:26 - 19:39)
So we have our friends here to present on potential solar, by-law research and initiatives that they have done uh some research on. I believe some of our T_V_ friends here have a microphone for you to use.

[Speaker 8] (19:40 - 19:41)
I don't think I need it.

[Speaker 1] (19:44 - 19:49)
So if you wanna introduce yourselves, welcome, by the way, and uh you can walk us through your presentation and we can have a discussion thereafter.

[Speaker 8] (19:50 - 19:50)
May I

[Speaker 1] (19:50 - 19:50)
First

[Speaker 8] (19:50 - 19:51)
ask a of quick

[Speaker 1] (19:51 - 19:51)
all, sure.

[Speaker 8] (19:51 - 19:54)
question? Could if we turn this, would this be easier to see?

[Speaker 2] (19:56 - 19:56)
To cut

[Speaker 1] (19:56 - 19:56)
up a little

[Speaker 2] (19:56 - 19:57)
it up.

[Speaker 1] (19:57 - 19:57)
bit.

[Speaker 3] (19:57 - 19:57)
Uh yeah, 'cause

[Speaker 4] (19:57 - 19:57)
Oh,

[Speaker 3] (19:57 - 19:58)
it

[Speaker 4] (19:58 - 19:58)
is that hard for you guys to see?

[Speaker 1] (19:58 - 20:01)
It's it's just this one is brighter than this one.

[Speaker 3] (20:01 - 20:03)
Yeah, this one has a lot of glare.

[Speaker 2] (20:03 - 20:03)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (20:06 - 20:07)
I don't know if it uh

[Speaker 2] (20:07 - 20:11)
Does it? Does the screen down here go angle anymore?

[Speaker 2] (20:14 - 20:14)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (20:14 - 20:15)
So I can't angle

[Speaker 3] (20:15 - 20:15)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (20:15 - 20:16)
any Okay.

[Speaker 1] (20:16 - 20:19)
Is there a brightness on this that can be increased?

[Speaker 5] (20:19 - 20:21)
Well, we got glare from the lights on

[Speaker 3] (20:21 - 20:21)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (20:21 - 20:21)
the screen.

[Speaker 3] (20:21 - 20:23)
the lights are brutal, these right up here.

[Speaker 5] (20:26 - 20:27)
Can we

[Speaker 1] (20:27 - 20:30)
I will I I can just watch this oh, wait a second.

[Speaker 6] (20:30 - 20:30)
Yeah, but we can

[Speaker 1] (20:30 - 20:31)
What do we turn this one?

[Speaker 6] (20:32 - 20:33)
Yeah, we could like scoot it out.

[Speaker 5] (20:33 - 20:35)
Or, I think we can turn off one of those back there.

[Speaker 6] (20:36 - 20:36)
I just Okay.

[Speaker 3] (20:36 - 20:38)
Okay, can you take out just the front

[Speaker 6] (20:38 - 20:38)
I don't know if you can see.

[Speaker 3] (20:38 - 20:39)
or not?

[Speaker 6] (20:39 - 20:39)
I think so.

[Speaker 1] (20:40 - 20:40)
No.

[Speaker 2] (20:40 - 20:41)
Yeah, is that going to be better for you, Jay?

[Speaker 1] (20:41 - 20:43)
That works. It's okay.

[Speaker 6] (20:43 - 20:44)
Yeah, that will work for me if that works.

[Speaker 3] (20:44 - 20:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (20:44 - 20:47)
It's going to look odd because we're all going to be staring off to the

[Speaker 2] (20:47 - 20:47)
That's fine.

[Speaker 1] (20:47 - 20:47)
But

[Speaker 3] (20:47 - 20:47)
That's

[Speaker 2] (20:47 - 20:48)
There's nobody

[Speaker 3] (20:48 - 20:48)
okay.

[Speaker 2] (20:48 - 20:50)
else here except for our friends over here, so.

[Speaker 3] (20:51 - 20:53)
I think it's fine. Thank you very

[Speaker 2] (20:53 - 20:53)
Thank

[Speaker 3] (20:53 - 20:53)
much.

[Speaker 2] (20:53 - 20:53)
you.

[Speaker 3] (20:56 - 20:56)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (20:56 - 21:00)
Can hand it over you. If you guys want to introduce yourselves and take us through your presentation.

[Speaker 5] (21:00 - 21:01)
Yeah, hi, I'm

[Speaker 2] (21:01 - 21:01)
Welcome.

[Speaker 5] (21:01 - 21:14)
Richard Frankel of uh Grant Road and Swampscott. I'm a member of the uh Climate Action Resilience Committee. Um I am impressed with your your August eleventh meeting must have gone forever. I mean, just looking at your minutes.

[Speaker 3] (21:14 - 21:15)
Yeah, it

[Speaker 5] (21:15 - 21:16)
You was must a have been here at midnight.

[Speaker 2] (21:16 - 21:17)
No, we if

[Speaker 3] (21:17 - 21:19)
No, we actually uh yeah, we actually

[Speaker 2] (21:19 - 21:19)
At

[Speaker 3] (21:19 - 21:19)
uh some

[Speaker 2] (21:19 - 21:20)
fifteen

[Speaker 3] (21:20 - 21:20)
of them we had

[Speaker 2] (21:20 - 21:20)
o seen'clock.

[Speaker 3] (21:20 - 21:21)
more than once.

[Speaker 5] (21:21 - 21:22)
Oh, I see.

[Speaker 3] (21:22 - 21:25)
So, but all the same, yeah, it was, we had a lot on that night.

[Speaker 5] (21:25 - 21:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (21:25 - 21:26)
That night,

[Speaker 5] (21:26 - 21:26)
didn't we?

[Speaker 3] (21:26 - 21:26)
we Oh, oh.

[Speaker 5] (21:26 - 21:27)
we uh that was quite the meeting.

[Speaker 2] (21:27 - 21:28)
Fun night.

[Speaker 3] (21:28 - 21:28)
Yes, it was.

[Speaker 3] (21:29 - 21:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (21:29 - 21:33)
And I have to say that I have sciatica so I will sit and I will stand and I will sit and I stand,

[Speaker 3] (21:33 - 21:34)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (21:34 - 21:34)
and I'll

[Speaker 2] (21:34 - 21:34)
All good.

[Speaker 5] (21:34 - 21:35)
see how it feels in

[Speaker 3] (21:35 - 21:35)
All right.

[Speaker 5] (21:35 - 21:48)
a moment. Um so one of the things that the Climate Action Resilience Committee is very concerned with of course is renewable energy. Um that sort of our mandate is to try to uh reduce the carbon emissions and so forth.

[Speaker 5] (21:50 - 21:56)
And part of that effort is of course to increase the amount of solar carbon free. Um

[Speaker 5] (21:57 - 22:26)
it costs, obviously, you know, that's subject to constraints and costs and so on so forth. So Waterdown has a byline requiring solar energy on certain new um and uh major revisions of of buildings. And so we used that as a a sample and uh No, go ahead, just the next next slide is fine. Um and so I we took a look at that. So it applies to large developments. Um the solar system is required for new discs.

[Speaker 5] (22:26 - 22:42)
Um when a site plan is required for construction, exterior altercation uh alteration, relocation or change in use, um certain zoning districts and uh buildings of ten thousand square feet or more or ten residential units. Now this is the water town,

[Speaker 6] (22:42 - 22:43)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 5] (22:43 - 22:44)
one that we used

[Speaker 6] (22:44 - 22:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (22:44 - 22:44)
as an example.

[Speaker 1] (22:44 - 22:46)
And are these ands or ors?

[Speaker 5] (22:46 - 22:49)
Um these are ors.

[Speaker 5] (22:52 - 22:53)
Go ahead, next slide.

[Speaker 5] (22:53 - 23:10)
Okay, for sites covered again, there's water tanks. For sites covered by by-law the solar requirements are for a solar energy system that is equal to fifty percent of the roof area of all buildings. And for uncovered parking structures, which means not, you know, a ground

[Speaker 3] (23:10 - 23:11)
What's a

[Speaker 5] (23:11 - 23:11)
level

[Speaker 3] (23:11 - 23:12)
garage, in other words structure.

[Speaker 5] (23:12 - 23:12)
area, a garage,

[Speaker 3] (23:12 - 23:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (23:13 - 23:20)
uh equal to ninety percent of the top-level. Include a roof-mounted ground-mounted canopy installations.

[Speaker 5] (23:21 - 23:25)
Photovoltaic or other systems that harvest solar energy. I think it's

[Speaker 5] (23:26 - 23:29)
photovoltaic right now in this this case.

[Speaker 5] (23:30 - 23:34)
Um, exemptions, the roof doesn't meet certain criteria for a term of pitch and orientation.

[Speaker 5] (23:35 - 23:37)
The roof is shaded for more than half of daylight hours.

[Speaker 5] (23:38 - 23:44)
Roofs with insufficient structural load capacity, not enough combined roof and ground space to meet the requirement. Um,

[Speaker 5] (23:45 - 23:48)
so I asked the Watertown town planner

[Speaker 5] (23:49 - 24:16)
um how that had worked out for them, and I asked them how many projects in Watertown have included solar in its code. Um they have four garages that have installed solar systems, and two others that were approved but not built yet, about eight or nine buildings um that install the fifty percent requirement. Um and so he said, you the taller the building, the the harder it is for it to hit the fifty percent requirement, because you know.

[Speaker 5] (24:16 - 24:38)
I mean you've got a tall building and there's not much grant space next to it I mean you know and you have your mechanicals on the roof, it's it's hard for them to do that. Um have there been any problems related to the requirement? You note the tight line for fifty percent rooftops, we've seen some designs that are that are good with keeping up um with the height of the garages, okay.

[Speaker 5] (24:39 - 24:47)
And again, what improvements of the code would you recommend? I would consider refining the fifty percent in how it is calculated. Um

[Speaker 5] (24:48 - 24:50)
So that was basically his comments.

[Speaker 5] (24:51 - 25:08)
We also ran it by the Attorney-General's um, you know, for town bylaws, and they didn't really have anything to say about it. It's, you know, they said that there was some minor comments, but doesn't look like it would run afoul of anything. Um this is solar cells in Watertown at the Arsenal Mall.

[Speaker 5] (25:12 - 25:18)
Okay, and so those are some links and uh then we can go on to look at uh the one we drafted.

[Speaker 5] (25:19 - 25:24)
Um go on to that. You guys I think have commented on that. You can go out there.

[Speaker 6] (25:32 - 25:33)
I was gonna say it might not let me log in.

[Speaker 5] (25:34 - 25:36)
I think it's publicly shared, so you can just anybody.

[Speaker 3] (25:37 - 25:41)
Well, you c you um attached it to um an email to us yesterday

[Speaker 6] (25:41 - 25:41)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (25:41 - 25:42)
or maybe today.

[Speaker 6] (25:42 - 25:44)
but okay if I pull up um

[Speaker 6] (25:45 - 25:46)
this version of it?

[Speaker 5] (25:46 - 25:46)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (25:46 - 25:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (25:47 - 25:47)
that's a Okay. good plan.

[Speaker 5] (25:49 - 25:54)
So that's a little bit of an intro. You know we we have solar energy on our schools

[Speaker 5] (25:55 - 25:57)
Um solar cells.

[Speaker 3] (25:57 - 25:59)
Did they finally put it on the elementary school?

[Speaker 7] (25:59 - 25:59)
No,

[Speaker 3] (25:59 - 25:59)
I know

[Speaker 7] (25:59 - 25:59)
I

[Speaker 3] (25:59 - 25:59)
that

[Speaker 7] (25:59 - 26:01)
don't think it's done yet.

[Speaker 3] (26:01 - 26:01)
Okay. Why?

[Speaker 7] (26:01 - 26:02)
No.

[Speaker 3] (26:02 - 26:02)
What was the reason for that?

[Speaker 7] (26:03 - 26:05)
I think there's the holdup with national grid.

[Speaker 2] (26:05 - 26:09)
That was my understanding as well, what the reimbursement or something that they were gonna provide.

[Speaker 7] (26:09 - 26:11)
It's still being worked, it's still being planned,

[Speaker 7] (26:11 - 26:11)
it's just

[Speaker 3] (26:11 - 26:12)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (26:12 - 26:12)
delayed.

[Speaker 3] (26:13 - 26:18)
Okay, thank you. I just, you know, made me um yeah, go right ahead. Sorry to interrupt.

[Speaker 5] (26:18 - 26:24)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good question. You know, a natural grid can be a sticking point in some of this stuff. We have to consider that clearly,

[Speaker 5] (26:24 - 26:25)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (26:25 - 26:25)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (26:27 - 26:33)
So basically I sent this around to you guys and we'd like to work with the planning board obviously on

[Speaker 5] (26:34 - 26:34)
Hello.

[Speaker 3] (26:35 - 26:35)
Hi.

[Speaker 6] (26:35 - 26:39)
Hi. I was only sharing the other window, so I wasn't

[Speaker 5] (26:39 - 26:47)
I'm coming up with, you know, a finished product here. So that is a draft and, you know, would love to hear your comments and

[Speaker 2] (26:47 - 26:48)
Take your comments from the top.

[Speaker 5] (26:48 - 26:48)
on it.

[Speaker 5] (26:49 - 26:50)
And.

[Speaker 6] (26:51 - 26:51)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (26:51 - 26:53)
I had like a whole bunch of questions.

[Speaker 2] (26:53 - 26:54)
Can you turn that in?

[Speaker 3] (26:54 - 26:56)
I don't know if I'm.

[Speaker 7] (26:57 - 26:57)
I

[Speaker 2] (26:57 - 27:02)
Um can you just zoom that in Karissa and then do you want to just walk us through at a high level the proposed by-law here

[Speaker 3] (27:02 - 27:02)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (27:02 - 27:03)
and then we can get into some

[Speaker 3] (27:03 - 27:04)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (27:04 - 27:04)
conversation?

[Speaker 3] (27:05 - 27:05)
Good idea.

[Speaker 5] (27:06 - 27:11)
Okay, um well that's the background, so let's go down to definitions.

[Speaker 5] (27:13 - 27:20)
The device or structural design feature is the essential purpose of which to provide the collection, storage, blah, blah, blah. So these are definitions.

[Speaker 2] (27:20 - 27:20)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (27:20 - 27:23)
Um I don't do let me know if you need to go through

[Speaker 2] (27:23 - 27:23)
I

[Speaker 5] (27:23 - 27:23)
any think of these.

[Speaker 2] (27:23 - 27:27)
we're good on definitions. I think the nuts and bolts of the requirements would be

[Speaker 5] (27:27 - 27:27)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (27:27 - 27:28)
we should focus our

[Speaker 5] (27:28 - 27:28)
Alright,

[Speaker 2] (27:28 - 27:28)
conversation

[Speaker 5] (27:28 - 27:36)
requirements. Development requiring site plan review, approval and greater than equal to ten thousand square gross feet of

[Speaker 3] (27:36 - 27:36)
So

[Speaker 5] (27:36 - 27:39)
or containing ten or more residential units. Now I have a comment there.

[Speaker 5] (27:39 - 27:41)
To me ten units sounds kind of low.

[Speaker 5] (27:42 - 27:47)
So I think I would bump that up. I mean, but

[Speaker 1] (27:47 - 27:47)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (27:47 - 27:51)
you know, I'm looking for you I'm sure you guys have have

[Speaker 1] (27:51 - 27:53)
Ten ten seems low or high.

[Speaker 5] (27:53 - 28:00)
To me it seems low to make a solar requirement, but that it may not be. You guys know more about that sort of thing than I do.

[Speaker 3] (28:01 - 28:05)
In other words maybe it should be like for a large much larger buildings? Is that what you're suggesting?

[Speaker 5] (28:05 - 28:07)
That's what I was thinking. Um

[Speaker 3] (28:07 - 28:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (28:08 - 28:08)
But I don't know.

[Speaker 5] (28:09 - 28:09)
I mean, you know,

[Speaker 3] (28:09 - 28:10)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (28:10 - 28:11)
it may be perfectly reasonable. I mean, I

[Speaker 3] (28:11 - 28:11)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (28:11 - 28:13)
put solar cells on my house and it's

[Speaker 1] (28:14 - 28:14)
I'm

[Speaker 5] (28:14 - 28:14)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (28:14 - 28:14)
fine.

[Speaker 5] (28:15 - 28:15)
One unit.

[Speaker 1] (28:16 - 28:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (28:17 - 28:22)
Well I was I was thinking just of projects that have been come in front of us since I've been here.

[Speaker 3] (28:22 - 28:23)
Well, we don't

[Speaker 2] (28:23 - 28:28)
Our use table is pretty much set at one, two and eight units, right?

[Speaker 3] (28:28 - 28:28)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (28:28 - 28:30)
And then above eight.

[Speaker 3] (28:30 - 28:30)
yeah,

[Speaker 2] (28:30 - 28:32)
And we usually don't see above eight unless it's the Westcott

[Speaker 3] (28:32 - 28:33)
right,

[Speaker 2] (28:33 - 28:33)
development

[Speaker 3] (28:33 - 28:34)
right.

[Speaker 2] (28:34 - 28:35)
in Vinton Square,

[Speaker 2] (28:35 - 28:36)
the Glover family,

[Speaker 3] (28:36 - 28:36)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (28:36 - 28:37)
whatever way.

[Speaker 2] (28:37 - 28:38)
So one,

[Speaker 1] (28:38 - 28:38)
But

[Speaker 2] (28:38 - 28:40)
two, up to eight and then

[Speaker 2] (28:41 - 28:42)
A hundred units is kind

[Speaker 7] (28:42 - 28:42)
So

[Speaker 2] (28:42 - 28:42)
of the

[Speaker 7] (28:42 - 28:42)
this

[Speaker 2] (28:42 - 28:42)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (28:42 - 28:44)
would be over eight, I would assume,

[Speaker 1] (28:44 - 28:44)
Yeah, so

[Speaker 7] (28:44 - 28:44)
if you

[Speaker 1] (28:44 - 28:44)
ten

[Speaker 7] (28:44 - 28:45)
want the over.

[Speaker 1] (28:45 - 28:49)
ten I don't think would I don't think there would be a negative impact.

[Speaker 5] (28:49 - 28:49)
Okay, great.

[Speaker 3] (28:50 - 29:00)
I mean, you know, it depends on the building. I mean, if you look at if it was like something like, you know, a ten thousand square foot building could be like the hot dog place, right, Hobo's. In fact, that's probably fifteen thousand

[Speaker 2] (29:00 - 29:01)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (29:01 - 29:01)
or more.

[Speaker 3] (29:02 - 29:03)
Um

[Speaker 2] (29:03 - 29:05)
Yeah, I think just about the unit count,

[Speaker 3] (29:05 - 29:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (29:06 - 29:07)
that's just the context

[Speaker 3] (29:07 - 29:07)
I think

[Speaker 2] (29:07 - 29:07)
that

[Speaker 3] (29:07 - 29:08)
that unit

[Speaker 2] (29:08 - 29:08)
we would have.

[Speaker 3] (29:08 - 29:09)
count would be

[Speaker 2] (29:09 - 29:09)
Square

[Speaker 3] (29:09 - 29:09)
uh

[Speaker 2] (29:09 - 29:09)
footage is different.

[Speaker 3] (29:09 - 29:11)
yeah, would be different.

[Speaker 3] (29:12 - 29:15)
And a question about the ground mounted, so that's on some kind of pad,

[Speaker 1] (29:15 - 29:16)
What?

[Speaker 3] (29:16 - 29:16)
right?

[Speaker 5] (29:17 - 29:21)
Um, grandmother would be um canopies probably um

[Speaker 3] (29:21 - 29:31)
So nothing that would some you know their building would have in its yard that would tilt back and like what you see up in the ski resorts where they have all those big panels that kind of tilt to the sun and all that business.

[Speaker 5] (29:31 - 29:33)
Well, if somebody wants to put that up, I wouldn't object.

[Speaker 3] (29:33 - 29:37)
I'm just wondering about setbacks and stuff like that so.

[Speaker 2] (29:37 - 29:44)
I'm assuming you're meaning ground mounted as in the steel canopy steel supported canopy solar panels that like the REI in Framingham.

[Speaker 2] (29:44 - 29:44)
him for example

[Speaker 1] (29:44 - 29:44)
Exactly.

[Speaker 2] (29:44 - 29:45)
has.

[Speaker 3] (29:45 - 29:47)
Yeah. Okay. So that way I understand.

[Speaker 5] (29:48 - 29:49)
I'm not sure I'm a big fan.

[Speaker 1] (29:52 - 29:52)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (29:52 - 30:03)
I'm not sure they're efficient and I'm gonna look into that a little bit more because I think personally we could take the money from Swan Scott and invest it in this, in a solar farm somewhere out where land is cheaper and

[Speaker 1] (30:03 - 30:03)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (30:03 - 30:08)
we do these things all the time, and that would be a more effective use of resources. So I'm gonna look into that a little bit more.

[Speaker 1] (30:09 - 30:09)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (30:10 - 30:10)
Um

[Speaker 4] (30:11 - 30:12)
Why don't you keep walking us through

[Speaker 2] (30:12 - 30:12)
Yep,

[Speaker 4] (30:12 - 30:12)
some of the

[Speaker 2] (30:12 - 30:12)
go

[Speaker 4] (30:12 - 30:12)
nuts

[Speaker 2] (30:12 - 30:12)
ahead.

[Speaker 4] (30:12 - 30:13)
and bolts of the by-law.

[Speaker 2] (30:16 - 30:19)
So you said site plan review approval so that we don't um

[Speaker 2] (30:20 - 30:29)
So, we do like special permit, I guess you're probably meaning that it's in our site plan, special permit criteria. Okay. I'm guessing that that's right.

[Speaker 5] (30:30 - 30:30)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (30:30 - 30:31)
I will we'll talk about that after.

[Speaker 3] (30:31 - 30:31)
Right, right.

[Speaker 2] (30:31 - 30:31)
Oh, go

[Speaker 3] (30:31 - 30:33)
That ahead. would be something you guys would

[Speaker 5] (30:33 - 30:33)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (30:33 - 30:33)
want.

[Speaker 2] (30:33 - 30:33)
Yep,

[Speaker 5] (30:33 - 30:33)
I think it's

[Speaker 2] (30:33 - 30:33)
so

[Speaker 5] (30:33 - 30:35)
targeting new construction

[Speaker 2] (30:35 - 30:35)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (30:35 - 30:36)
or major

[Speaker 3] (30:36 - 30:36)
Or

[Speaker 5] (30:36 - 30:36)
renovations,

[Speaker 3] (30:36 - 30:37)
major renovation.

[Speaker 5] (30:37 - 30:37)
so like

[Speaker 3] (30:37 - 30:37)
Actually, yeah, you're right.

[Speaker 5] (30:37 - 30:39)
anything that would enable

[Speaker 2] (30:39 - 30:39)
It

[Speaker 5] (30:39 - 30:39)
you

[Speaker 2] (30:39 - 30:39)
would

[Speaker 5] (30:39 - 30:39)
to

[Speaker 2] (30:39 - 30:40)
be a

[Speaker 5] (30:40 - 30:40)
like

[Speaker 2] (30:40 - 30:40)
special permit legislation.

[Speaker 5] (30:40 - 30:41)
review that.

[Speaker 2] (30:41 - 30:41)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (30:41 - 30:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (30:47 - 30:54)
So obviously there has to be an assessment in order to comply with this thing. So that's the contents of the assessment.

[Speaker 3] (30:58 - 31:12)
And then exemptions. Um and there are a bunch of exemptions here which I think make it fairly flexible. I would like to keep it flexible so that everybody thinks it's reasonable. You know, whatever whatever decision is made should be reasonable, not dictated by

[Speaker 3] (31:12 - 31:23)
by, you know, intellectual wording. So that was the idea of the exemptions. Um and I think this author is a lot of exemptions, even down to, you know, whether it costs too much.

[Speaker 2] (31:29 - 31:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (31:33 - 31:36)
And uh I think we're is that pretty much the end of it?

[Speaker 2] (31:36 - 31:36)
It's the end.

[Speaker 3] (31:36 - 31:40)
So yeah, so it's a fairly straight-forward, fairly simple

[Speaker 3] (31:41 - 31:47)
um probably doesn't have I mean I think it was modelled on Watertown that's pretty much what theirs is too, it's fairly straight-forward.

[Speaker 2] (31:49 - 32:02)
So um in in terms of the photovoltaic panels are are they just that kind of that one big roof panel or you know I know there's been solar tiles and stuff like that, is that really part of it or

[Speaker 3] (32:03 - 32:06)
Well, it seems to be standard to, you know, standard size solar panels.

[Speaker 2] (32:06 - 32:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (32:06 - 32:08)
They are about two by four roughly.

[Speaker 2] (32:08 - 32:28)
So I you know, i are those like how's the technology on those? It seems they've been around for a long time. Um you know, how efficient are they? I mean I really don't know much about you know, if I had if so if my house has a roof area let's say of um I don't know, maybe it of a thousand square feet on my roof let's say.

[Speaker 2] (32:29 - 32:51)
and so let's say I were to have five, you know, half of that, five hundred square feet covered in in solar panels, just for argument's sake. Um so first of all like who pays for that? I get is this a homeowner pay for or the building owner pay for them? And the and then the building owner meaning me, would be required to get the assessment. Is that correct?

[Speaker 3] (32:52 - 32:52)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (32:53 - 32:56)
And who do you get the co the assessment from?

[Speaker 3] (32:57 - 33:02)
Um well the solar companies that people that install this stuff, you know they give you estimates.

[Speaker 2] (33:02 - 33:03)
I say.

[Speaker 3] (33:03 - 33:15)
Regardless if you had actually didn't get an estimate for for Vin and Square, they offered to you know they offered to pay a hundred thousand dollars a year to the owners of Vin and Square just to put solar cells on the roof of the commercial buildings there.

[Speaker 5] (33:16 - 33:18)
A little bit of a missed opportunity, you know,

[Speaker 6] (33:18 - 33:18)
Hmm.

[Speaker 5] (33:18 - 33:18)
for Vin

[Speaker 3] (33:18 - 33:19)
But

[Speaker 5] (33:19 - 33:19)
and Square, but

[Speaker 3] (33:19 - 33:20)
but

[Speaker 2] (33:20 - 33:21)
And who offered to do that?

[Speaker 5] (33:23 - 33:24)
It's it's another independent

[Speaker 3] (33:24 - 33:25)
One of the solar

[Speaker 5] (33:25 - 33:25)
solar

[Speaker 3] (33:25 - 33:26)
companies that I contacted.

[Speaker 5] (33:26 - 33:26)
company

[Speaker 3] (33:26 - 33:27)
Maybe.

[Speaker 2] (33:27 - 33:30)
even on the um the the residential building, 'cause I know

[Speaker 3] (33:30 - 33:30)
No,

[Speaker 2] (33:30 - 33:30)
that the

[Speaker 3] (33:30 - 33:31)
not not the residential,

[Speaker 5] (33:31 - 33:31)
no.

[Speaker 3] (33:31 - 33:32)
just just the commercial

[Speaker 2] (33:32 - 33:32)
Yeah, that

[Speaker 3] (33:32 - 33:32)
stuff.

[Speaker 2] (33:32 - 33:38)
that's the problem is that they didn't want to that those those structures haven't been modified, you know,

[Speaker 3] (33:38 - 33:38)
Right,

[Speaker 2] (33:38 - 33:39)
and in

[Speaker 3] (33:39 - 33:39)
right.

[Speaker 2] (33:39 - 33:42)
addition to the those the roof load,

[Speaker 3] (33:42 - 33:42)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (33:42 - 33:48)
I think there are other um you know, somewhat like you're just dealing with these individual

[Speaker 2] (33:48 - 33:55)
you know like home goods I mean they you know and and Stop and Shop they're very much you know they're pretty powerful tenants

[Speaker 3] (33:55 - 33:56)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (33:56 - 34:03)
and um so I think there is there are multiple factors that come into it but a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's a structure from the 70s really

[Speaker 3] (34:03 - 34:04)
Hmm.

[Speaker 2] (34:04 - 34:09)
and um yeah I was I was thinking about the residential building anyway so go

[Speaker 3] (34:09 - 34:09)
Oh,

[Speaker 2] (34:09 - 34:10)
ahead

[Speaker 3] (34:10 - 34:10)
right.

[Speaker 2] (34:10 - 34:10)
yeah

[Speaker 3] (34:10 - 34:15)
That's not a major, you know, renovation. I mean, they're not really changing the roof there,

[Speaker 3] (34:15 - 34:15)
I don't believe

[Speaker 2] (34:15 - 34:16)
it. Yeah but it's

[Speaker 7] (34:16 - 34:16)
No,

[Speaker 2] (34:16 - 34:16)
a brand

[Speaker 7] (34:16 - 34:16)
that's

[Speaker 2] (34:16 - 34:16)
new

[Speaker 7] (34:16 - 34:16)
a one

[Speaker 2] (34:16 - 34:16)
building.

[Speaker 7] (34:16 - 34:17)
a new construction.

[Speaker 8] (34:17 - 34:17)
production.

[Speaker 5] (34:18 - 34:18)
And I think they're

[Speaker 3] (34:18 - 34:19)
Well,

[Speaker 5] (34:19 - 34:19)
planning

[Speaker 3] (34:19 - 34:19)
the, if to there's

[Speaker 5] (34:19 - 34:19)
go

[Speaker 3] (34:19 - 34:19)
a residential

[Speaker 5] (34:19 - 34:20)
with it.

[Speaker 3] (34:20 - 34:25)
building, it's new. But the whole the uh the whole mall is not really being changed much. I don't think it would run afoul of this.

[Speaker 8] (34:25 - 34:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (34:26 - 34:30)
No, just been the facade has changed a bunch of times. But the

[Speaker 3] (34:30 - 34:30)
More

[Speaker 2] (34:30 - 34:30)
building

[Speaker 3] (34:30 - 34:30)
than cosmetic.

[Speaker 2] (34:30 - 34:31)
itself hasn't, yeah.

[Speaker 8] (34:31 - 34:32)
Right, cosmetic,

[Speaker 8] (34:32 - 34:33)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (34:33 - 34:37)
I don't think the solar cells weigh a lot. I think they laid less than a load of snow, but that's we're

[Speaker 2] (34:37 - 34:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (34:37 - 34:38)
not it doesn't

[Speaker 2] (34:38 - 34:38)
So So

[Speaker 3] (34:38 - 34:39)
apply here because

[Speaker 2] (34:39 - 34:44)
one thing that came up and I'll be quite honest, which is interesting at Venice Square, because I've

[Speaker 2] (34:44 - 34:53)
because I've thought about that a lot, was um the fact that we have, you know, Venice Square's kind of in this sort of valley between Crown Point and some of the states.

[Speaker 3] (34:53 - 34:53)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (34:53 - 35:06)
And the people that live there have even mentioned the fact that they can kind of, you know, look down on the shopping centre. And there was a lot of concern about reflective glare because they are kind of directly above.

[Speaker 3] (35:06 - 35:06)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (35:06 - 35:11)
And, you know, I kind of had no answer for that, but um I mean I think it's a concern.

[Speaker 2] (35:11 - 35:15)
of a lot of people that are really far below like that.

[Speaker 9] (35:15 - 35:22)
Yeah, I I would say living I I live on top of a hill with a house below with um with solar panels and it's

[Speaker 9] (35:22 - 35:23)
The knowledge.

[Speaker 3] (35:23 - 35:27)
Exactly. The idea of a solar panel is to absorb as much light as possible.

[Speaker 2] (35:27 - 35:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (35:27 - 35:27)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (35:27 - 35:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (35:27 - 35:29)
there's not, they are not a glare,

[Speaker 9] (35:29 - 35:32)
there is, I've never caught glare

[Speaker 3] (35:32 - 35:32)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (35:32 - 35:33)
off of

[Speaker 3] (35:33 - 35:38)
I've seen solar farms and if they were reflective that, you know, some of those could really generate

[Speaker 9] (35:38 - 35:38)
Yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 3] (35:38 - 35:41)
a lot. So no they d they don't. They

[Speaker 2] (35:41 - 35:41)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (35:41 - 35:41)
absorb.

[Speaker 9] (35:42 - 35:42)
They they

[Speaker 2] (35:42 - 35:42)
That's

[Speaker 9] (35:42 - 35:42)
do

[Speaker 2] (35:42 - 35:42)
good to

[Speaker 9] (35:42 - 35:43)
not

[Speaker 2] (35:43 - 35:43)
know.

[Speaker 9] (35:43 - 35:46)
they do not have the same impact with glare that um

[Speaker 9] (35:47 - 35:50)
That insulated replacement windows too,

[Speaker 2] (35:50 - 35:50)
Okay.

[Speaker 9] (35:50 - 35:54)
where they're melting the siding next door and so forth, that's not happening off the solar panel.

[Speaker 2] (35:54 - 35:57)
That's good to know. Now I'll know how to I hope know how to answer that next time

[Speaker 3] (35:57 - 35:57)
Right,

[Speaker 2] (35:57 - 35:57)
I get asked.

[Speaker 3] (35:57 - 35:59)
tell them tell them it will reduce reflection.

[Speaker 2] (36:02 - 36:07)
So, anyway, getting back to my personal example about,

[Speaker 2] (36:07 - 36:20)
I'm trying to, I'm interested in cost. Like, if they were gonna, as a homeowner, you know, is there any kind of huge ballpark figure of what it would cost um someone who owned a a building and what they could expect to save from it?

[Speaker 5] (36:20 - 36:20)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (36:20 - 36:23)
Ni I just have a a lot of little questions.

[Speaker 3] (36:23 - 36:30)
Um well, the s price of solar panels has come down enormously, okay. And so it's now actually

[Speaker 3] (36:30 - 36:38)
a really cost-effective way to generate electricity, right? So you actually save money by putting solar panels in.

[Speaker 2] (36:38 - 36:39)
Well, I would hope so.

[Speaker 3] (36:39 - 36:43)
Yeah, I well you save money enough to pay for the things within a few years.

[Speaker 2] (36:43 - 36:47)
Okay, and so you are so the person who's putting them on has to pay for them

[Speaker 2] (36:48 - 36:49)
and then um

[Speaker 3] (36:49 - 36:50)
And then they collect the revenue from

[Speaker 2] (36:50 - 36:50)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (36:50 - 36:50)
it.

[Speaker 5] (36:51 - 36:57)
I have an example, personal examples. So we installed solar panels. And it's a small installation, because we don't use a lot of electricity.

[Speaker 5] (36:57 - 36:58)
of electricity.

[Speaker 5] (36:59 - 37:07)
So we had twelve panels installed. It was twelve thousand dollars minus whatever rebate effectively cost us eight thousand.

[Speaker 2] (37:07 - 37:07)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (37:07 - 37:11)
Um but I haven't paid for electricity pretty much

[Speaker 5] (37:12 - 37:17)
A few months after we installed them I started being in in the black, you know.

[Speaker 2] (37:18 - 37:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (37:18 - 37:20)
So haven't paid for electricity since.

[Speaker 2] (37:20 - 37:21)
Oh.

[Speaker 5] (37:21 - 37:26)
Um but I think the payback period they say is typically like seven year payback.

[Speaker 2] (37:26 - 37:26)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (37:27 - 37:27)
So

[Speaker 2] (37:27 - 37:28)
That's interesting, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (37:28 - 37:29)
you know.

[Speaker 2] (37:29 - 37:29)
Um

[Speaker 9] (37:29 - 37:38)
And for a for a lot of um people that I know that are also making the commitment to using a lot of electricity through

[Speaker 9] (37:38 - 37:39)
Heat pumps,

[Speaker 2] (37:39 - 37:39)
Right, electrical

[Speaker 9] (37:39 - 37:40)
heat panels,

[Speaker 2] (37:40 - 37:41)
pumps and so forth, right.

[Speaker 9] (37:41 - 37:44)
it is almost like one without the other,

[Speaker 9] (37:45 - 37:50)
you're in a place where you're zeroed out, but if you go the route of the heat pumps and the electric heat

[Speaker 9] (37:51 - 37:54)
it it really is is the leveler in that

[Speaker 2] (37:54 - 37:54)
Uh

[Speaker 9] (37:54 - 37:55)
because

[Speaker 2] (37:55 - 37:55)
-huh.

[Speaker 9] (37:55 - 38:02)
with the cost of electricity um you know the the the efficiency is there but the actual um

[Speaker 2] (38:02 - 38:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (38:02 - 38:05)
it it's what balances the cost

[Speaker 5] (38:05 - 38:05)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (38:05 - 38:07)
um in that

[Speaker 2] (38:07 - 38:07)
Interesting.

[Speaker 9] (38:07 - 38:12)
on on the sort of to build off your question so with these buildings being

[Speaker 9] (38:13 - 38:17)
Most of the times that this is capturing,

[Speaker 9] (38:17 - 38:21)
these are not owners, like long-term owners of the property.

[Speaker 9] (38:21 - 38:22)
It might be rental

[Speaker 2] (38:22 - 38:22)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (38:22 - 38:23)
units,

[Speaker 9] (38:24 - 38:29)
which is again going to be probably a structure that they would typically,

[Speaker 9] (38:29 - 38:34)
they'd be passing the cost on to the renters.

[Speaker 9] (38:35 - 38:35)
Similarly,

[Speaker 2] (38:35 - 38:35)
I see.

[Speaker 9] (38:35 - 38:40)
or if you're building condominiums, you're passing that energy cost on.

[Speaker 9] (38:40 - 38:42)
And at this point in time, it is shifting it.

[Speaker 9] (38:42 - 38:55)
From the the the upfront cost is landing on the developer and the beneficiaries are more likely the renters and the and the owners,

[Speaker 9] (38:55 - 38:55)
but

[Speaker 2] (38:55 - 38:55)
That's

[Speaker 9] (38:55 - 38:55)
at the

[Speaker 2] (38:55 - 38:55)
right.

[Speaker 9] (38:55 - 39:08)
same time, to be able to sell a condo where you are not looking at having expenses that are tied to electric services, and in many of these cases following

[Speaker 9] (39:09 - 39:25)
the the current codes, electric heat and and so forth it's it's a it is a built-in benefit to what they are selling as a product if it's if it's renting or selling a

[Speaker 2] (39:25 - 39:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (39:25 - 39:27)
unit. So it is sort of it there's not a

[Speaker 9] (39:29 - 39:30)
There's not a some zero,

[Speaker 9] (39:30 - 39:41)
you know, type of thing where it's like well these people are suffering because no, they're they're actually getting a product that is marketable as here's an expense you won't have on top of your mortgage and on top of your insurance.

[Speaker 2] (39:41 - 39:44)
So who harvests the energy? Is it National Grid that

[Speaker 2] (39:50 - 39:55)
so if you produce more energy than you use, what happens to the rest of it?

[Speaker 3] (39:55 - 39:57)
Right, so I kind of bank it.

[Speaker 3] (39:57 - 40:05)
So um basically I, the electricity that's produced I use during the day, right, and

[Speaker 2] (40:05 - 40:05)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (40:05 - 40:20)
then in the summer, you know, fall um I'm gonna be it basically banking it. And then in the winter time I'm gonna be using drawing from the grid, from national grid, um and then

[Speaker 3] (40:21 - 40:25)
you know, offsetting the cost with what I've banked in the past.

[Speaker 2] (40:25 - 40:25)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (40:26 - 40:26)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (40:26 - 40:26)
So

[Speaker 4] (40:26 - 40:28)
it's connected to national grid,

[Speaker 2] (40:28 - 40:28)
It it yeah.

[Speaker 4] (40:28 - 40:30)
and that's why we're having troubles with, you know,

[Speaker 4] (40:31 - 40:37)
the elementary school because they're, you know, they have to build out their infrastructure, I guess, to to get supplies

[Speaker 2] (40:37 - 40:37)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (40:37 - 40:38)
for those to cool

[Speaker 2] (40:38 - 40:45)
But they cha I mean, I was looking at my bill, 'cause I've always noticed that that they charge us. I don't have I don't have solar panels, okay.

[Speaker 4] (40:45 - 40:45)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (40:45 - 40:48)
But part of more than half uh

[Speaker 2] (40:48 - 40:51)
So over 15% of my delivery charge is

[Speaker 2] (40:52 - 41:10)
is the energy efficiency fee, renewable energy fee, uh a tran no the uh distributed solar charge and electrical ve electrical vehicle charge. So basically what they're doing is saying, and it says right on there when they explain what the charges for it's to recoup the cost of all the renewable programmes, to recoup the cost

[Speaker 1] (41:10 - 41:10)
It's not safe.

[Speaker 2] (41:10 - 41:12)
for the solar right.

[Speaker 1] (41:12 - 41:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (41:12 - 41:21)
So it's to recoup their costs. So I'm like wait a minute, it's like the you're supposed to be s you know, making this supposed to be the better thing for the consumer

[Speaker 3] (41:21 - 41:21)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (41:21 - 41:21)
and

[Speaker 2] (41:21 - 41:28)
not start costing everybody now we're paying National Grid so that they don't lose any money it's just you know it's kind

[Speaker 3] (41:28 - 41:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (41:28 - 41:29)
of this crazy thing

[Speaker 3] (41:29 - 41:30)
But but also,

[Speaker 2] (41:30 - 41:33)
I'm just trying to understand it I appreciate your answering my questions

[Speaker 3] (41:33 - 41:42)
yeah, and I to take that a step further, if you look at National Grid's gas cost, there's also a delivery and

[Speaker 2] (41:42 - 41:42)
yes

[Speaker 3] (41:42 - 41:44)
a cost of fuel.

[Speaker 3] (41:44 - 41:48)
In the delivery, is there infrastructure like the pipelines which

[Speaker 2] (41:48 - 41:48)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (41:48 - 42:00)
we'll be paying for forever and ever even though we're supposed to be getting off of gas? So do we want to be paying for that infrastructure for a very long time?

[Speaker 2] (42:00 - 42:00)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (42:00 - 42:03)
So, but if National Grid came to you and said,

[Speaker 3] (42:03 - 42:04)
hey,

[Speaker 3] (42:04 - 42:07)
I've got a deal for you. If you buy this new equipment,

[Speaker 3] (42:07 - 42:11)
we'll give you gas for free forever and ever.

[Speaker 3] (42:12 - 42:16)
I mean, if you think about that with sol solar's free energy,

[Speaker 2] (42:16 - 42:16)
Mm.

[Speaker 3] (42:16 - 42:19)
so it's really the way to go

[Speaker 2] (42:19 - 42:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (42:19 - 42:23)
for the future, even though the there's an investment up front.

[Speaker 2] (42:24 - 42:28)
How um how long do they last, the panels? Like it is it a like after ten

[Speaker 4] (42:28 - 42:28)
They they

[Speaker 2] (42:28 - 42:28)
years

[Speaker 4] (42:28 - 42:28)
they

[Speaker 2] (42:28 - 42:29)
do you need did to re

[Speaker 4] (42:29 - 42:29)
they

[Speaker 2] (42:29 - 42:29)
replace

[Speaker 4] (42:29 - 42:32)
made them? it for about twenty five years. But they keep writing and going after that.

[Speaker 2] (42:33 - 42:33)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (42:33 - 42:34)
They just go down to

[Speaker 2] (42:34 - 42:34)
So they go.

[Speaker 4] (42:34 - 42:34)
about he eighty

[Speaker 2] (42:34 - 42:35)
Go and go.

[Speaker 4] (42:35 - 42:36)
eighty percent yeah.

[Speaker 2] (42:36 - 42:36)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (42:36 - 42:38)
But yeah, they basically never wear out.

[Speaker 4] (42:39 - 42:43)
And sunlight is free. So, you know, from an economic standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

[Speaker 2] (42:43 - 42:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (42:44 - 42:46)
It always did make a lot of sense. It shouldn't

[Speaker 2] (42:46 - 42:46)
So

[Speaker 4] (42:46 - 42:46)
really he

[Speaker 2] (42:46 - 42:56)
it so it could be a good argument for uh you I guess we'd get the resistance from the commercial property owners, right, if they didn't want to make the investment or like, you

[Speaker 1] (42:56 - 42:56)
I

[Speaker 2] (42:56 - 42:56)
know,

[Speaker 1] (42:56 - 42:58)
think any property oh well,

[Speaker 2] (42:58 - 42:58)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (42:58 - 42:59)
let me rephrase that.

[Speaker 1] (43:01 - 43:02)
Any developer who is

[Speaker 2] (43:03 - 43:03)
No.

[Speaker 1] (43:03 - 43:04)
All we're doing here is adding cost to

[Speaker 2] (43:04 - 43:05)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (43:05 - 43:05)
a developer

[Speaker 2] (43:05 - 43:05)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (43:05 - 43:11)
through through buy all so I'm sure regardless if it's a commercial developer or residential developer they're gonna say you're adding more cost and

[Speaker 2] (43:11 - 43:12)
So when we're

[Speaker 1] (43:12 - 43:14)
we'll either take it or we'll pass it on to our consumer or

[Speaker 4] (43:14 - 43:14)
Which

[Speaker 1] (43:14 - 43:14)
we just

[Speaker 4] (43:14 - 43:14)
is

[Speaker 1] (43:14 - 43:15)
won't

[Speaker 4] (43:15 - 43:15)
kind

[Speaker 1] (43:15 - 43:15)
develop

[Speaker 4] (43:15 - 43:16)
of interesting though,

[Speaker 2] (43:16 - 43:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (43:16 - 43:16)
because remember,

[Speaker 4] (43:17 - 43:23)
been in Square, these guys could have made $100,000 doing absolutely nothing other than making their roof.

[Speaker 3] (43:23 - 43:24)
Available.

[Speaker 4] (43:24 - 43:50)
suitable for, you know, for solar cells. They would have been making a hundred thousand of them this year. They don't provide the solar cells, you know, just to give you the idea of the economics. If somebody's able to pay you a hundred thousand dollars to put solar cells on your roof, obviously makes a lot of sense. So, I mean, I think we could also allow them to do that. I think they they don't have to do this themselves, they can contract with somebody, and I think that would be uh the way most of the people would go on that one.

[Speaker 4] (43:51 - 43:51)
You know.

[Speaker 1] (43:51 - 43:55)
Have any other towns other than Watertown adopted a bylaw like this in the Commonwealth? Or

[Speaker 4] (43:55 - 43:56)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (43:56 - 43:57)
New England, I guess?

[Speaker 4] (43:57 - 44:01)
I'm not aware of it, but I think, you know, there may be one other,

[Speaker 4] (44:01 - 44:01)
I think, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (44:02 - 44:13)
So what if we, it were, I guess my concern with a bylaw is, so what's the penalty for non-compliance? If it's, so if someone, if it's

[Speaker 12] (44:13 - 44:15)
a

[Speaker 2] (44:14 - 44:31)
If it's a requirement as it's listed here for, let's say, I don't know, twenty units or more, forty units or more, whatever, um that you know we don't have many buildings that have more than forty units in them. Even the Glover thing, I mean, it just was

[Speaker 4] (44:31 - 44:31)
Doesn't

[Speaker 2] (44:31 - 44:31)
the original

[Speaker 4] (44:31 - 44:32)
really need to.

[Speaker 2] (44:32 - 44:41)
one. I mean, they were you know three buildings altogether. So they were I don't know, they might have had a few more than forty. So let's just say twenty for example um

[Speaker 2] (44:42 - 45:08)
um if they if they say no, you know my roof is gonna look like this and I have uh you know equipment up there and there's not gonna be enough room or you know I you know I have no interest in doing that and I'm doing blah blah blah instead, I don't know, whatever their argument is, but they say no. I'm already being forced to do you know inclusionary zoning here, so ten percent have to be affordable and now I have to pay an infield fee and you know the um

[Speaker 1] (45:08 - 45:09)
I an I_V_

[Speaker 2] (45:09 - 45:28)
the I and I fee and and now you're gonna make me put solar panels and so there's that piece of it and then I think about well MBTA zoning I mean we have you know I'm not too worried about that because there's not a whole heck of a lot that can get developed um however it could make a project unaffordable which would

[Speaker 2] (45:29 - 45:37)
you know, in in they'd have to prove it, but it could make a project unaffordable, like a forty P_ project for example. So I don't

[Speaker 1] (45:37 - 45:37)
I'm not

[Speaker 2] (45:37 - 45:37)
know how they

[Speaker 1] (45:37 - 45:51)
so sure that the cost of this for the fifty percent of a of the square footage for a roof being covered um for the properties and the land that we have in this town

[Speaker 1] (45:53 - 45:56)
This really isn't, this isn't a huge ask.

[Speaker 1] (45:56 - 46:00)
Right. Um and the fact that you have structured this so that there are

[Speaker 1] (46:01 - 46:12)
um exceptions, if you look at some of these exceptions, they allow for, let's let's use Glover, if those were shed roofs with the roof facing north,

[Speaker 1] (46:12 - 46:14)
they would have an exemption.

[Speaker 1] (46:15 - 46:23)
Um there there are there are reasons, you know, they're not gonna this would not lead you to have to construct um

[Speaker 1] (46:24 - 46:25)
you know a giant

[Speaker 1] (46:26 - 46:40)
system on the roof to get the orientation right. This you know there is exemptions built in here. So this is a pretty I mean I I use this word carefully but this is conservative for a progressive act.

[Speaker 1] (46:40 - 46:54)
Um which i really appreciate that because I think that's that's the kind of thing that makes it work, um in many cases. But I'm I'm not so sure that this is

[Speaker 1] (46:56 - 47:04)
I I think that it is conservative enough that it is not going to be something that is triggering people walking away from projects. Um

[Speaker 5] (47:04 - 47:05)
But let's

[Speaker 1] (47:06 - 47:08)
Talk through that let's use the Blubber family as

[Speaker 2] (47:08 - 47:08)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (47:08 - 47:11)
a th development as a example.

[Speaker 2] (47:11 - 47:12)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (47:12 - 47:13)
So we've got

[Speaker 4] (47:13 - 47:13)
For the family.

[Speaker 1] (47:14 - 47:16)
the Blubber multi-family overlay district, sorry,

[Speaker 2] (47:16 - 47:16)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (47:16 - 47:21)
the development there. Um ninety units in Swampscott.

[Speaker 2] (47:21 - 47:21)
Ninety six.

[Speaker 1] (47:21 - 47:27)
Ninety six units in Swampscott across two buildings. We don't allow flat roofs, so we've got part of it gabled and then part of it

[Speaker 1] (47:28 - 47:29)
recessed.

[Speaker 2] (47:29 - 47:32)
And the gable is is shielding some equipment on the roof,

[Speaker 1] (47:32 - 47:43)
Right, so if we do it something like that we've got high energy heat pump condensers, electric condensers and compressors up there. How do we also fit solar panels in that area without going to a flat roof,

[Speaker 1] (47:43 - 47:43)
which we don't allow

[Speaker 2] (47:43 - 47:44)
I

[Speaker 1] (47:44 - 47:44)
by our

[Speaker 2] (47:44 - 47:46)
thought we kind of talked about that when we first reviewed

[Speaker 1] (47:46 - 47:46)
But look

[Speaker 2] (47:46 - 47:46)
that plan.

[Speaker 1] (47:46 - 47:51)
at the exemptions. I mean that's this is based on

[Speaker 1] (47:51 - 47:58)
the work that Richard did with with Watertown I think he discovered that that is an issue because that is where those

[Speaker 2] (47:58 - 47:59)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (47:59 - 48:10)
that that's where those systems go and in Watertown they were they were colliding. So if you go back to the exemption page you'll see that that that's that is called out that um

[Speaker 6] (48:11 - 48:11)
There we go.

[Speaker 2] (48:11 - 48:12)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (48:14 - 48:23)
Um what about like are there any other types of so this is just focusing on solar panels, like are there any other kinds of of energy systems that

[Speaker 3] (48:23 - 48:24)
Not not exactly in their bracket,

[Speaker 2] (48:24 - 48:28)
that have been effective or are we just focusing on the solar panels right now?

[Speaker 4] (48:29 - 48:31)
We were just focusing on the solar panels. I mean, wind

[Speaker 2] (48:31 - 48:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (48:32 - 48:33)
and solar are basically the two.

[Speaker 4] (48:34 - 48:38)
that are now actually cheaper than almost any other way

[Speaker 2] (48:38 - 48:38)
Yeah and

[Speaker 4] (48:38 - 48:39)
to generate electricity.

[Speaker 2] (48:39 - 48:40)
the wind, the turbines

[Speaker 4] (48:40 - 48:40)
If it

[Speaker 2] (48:40 - 48:41)
are not something,

[Speaker 4] (48:41 - 48:41)
huge

[Speaker 2] (48:41 - 48:41)
yeah.

[Speaker 4] (48:41 - 48:46)
fossil fuel lobby, you would have them much more, you know, let's say trying to

[Speaker 2] (48:46 - 48:46)
I hear you, yeah.

[Speaker 4] (48:46 - 48:47)
get rid of them unfortunately.

[Speaker 7] (48:50 - 48:50)
But

[Speaker 2] (48:50 - 48:50)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (48:50 - 48:52)
back to what we were just discussing.

[Speaker 2] (48:52 - 48:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (48:52 - 48:59)
So using that as an example, we're using the Vinn and Square residences, whatever we want to call the new building at the mall.

[Speaker 7] (49:00 - 49:02)
same thing angled roof and

[Speaker 3] (49:02 - 49:02)
So

[Speaker 7] (49:02 - 49:16)
the flat roof that's recessed part of that has the condensers and compressors in it. So on those we could even look at any of the other some of the other multi-family buildings that are over fifteen units. They're all designed similarly with all the electrical equipment for

[Speaker 2] (49:16 - 49:16)
Behind

[Speaker 7] (49:16 - 49:16)
the heat pumps

[Speaker 2] (49:16 - 49:17)
streets like that.

[Speaker 7] (49:17 - 49:21)
on the roof. Pine Street is a great example since we just did that.

[Speaker 7] (49:22 - 49:25)
In all of these developments where do the solar panels go?

[Speaker 1] (49:26 - 49:32)
So on Pine Street there is that's I'm gonna sort of call that like a dumb uh

[Speaker 1] (49:33 - 49:33)
an

[Speaker 4] (49:33 - 49:33)
They're called

[Speaker 1] (49:33 - 49:38)
I-shaped building. I was gonna say a dumbbell building but that's that's based on the s not

[Speaker 3] (49:38 - 49:38)
I

[Speaker 1] (49:38 - 49:38)
the know design

[Speaker 3] (49:38 - 49:38)
what you mean.

[Speaker 1] (49:38 - 49:39)
of it, but the shape of it.

[Speaker 2] (49:40 - 49:40)
Sure.

[Speaker 1] (49:40 - 49:52)
But the two ends of that are our slope grooves, and that there would be the ability to get solar in there um on those on those surfaces that were appropriately angled.

[Speaker 1] (49:53 - 50:01)
um the centre part where they're recessed to hold those. And and it is it's it's complicated because we're playing catch-up. Um if you look

[Speaker 4] (50:01 - 50:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (50:01 - 50:06)
at the two projects that are opposite sides of the drawbridge um from Revere to Lynn,

[Speaker 5] (50:07 - 50:07)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (50:07 - 50:13)
those two buildings, you can see that the design did not keep up with the technology, because you are looking at

[Speaker 1] (50:14 - 50:20)
all of these units that are on the roofs and they're completely unscreened,

[Speaker 6] (50:20 - 50:20)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (50:21 - 50:23)
and the the the architects didn't catch up to it.

[Speaker 6] (50:24 - 50:24)
Hmm.

[Speaker 1] (50:24 - 50:28)
Um so this is a case like now we're fortunate because we don't have that.

[Speaker 1] (50:29 - 50:45)
Maybe we do someplace, but not to that extent where you've got the view. Like have you all noticed this, 'cause there's there's two very carefully designed buildings and then in came all of the units on the roofs and it it like the the one in Revere looks like a cemetery up there.

[Speaker 7] (50:46 - 50:46)
Really?

[Speaker 1] (50:46 - 50:46)
You know,

[Speaker 7] (50:46 - 50:48)
You mean I I've I've seen the buildings.

[Speaker 1] (50:48 - 50:49)
Look at the roofs.

[Speaker 7] (50:49 - 50:49)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (50:49 - 50:53)
There it's somewhere you see the it's very naked and obvious on the roof

[Speaker 7] (50:53 - 50:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (50:53 - 50:53)
where the

[Speaker 1] (50:53 - 50:54)
Oh yeah, it's a

[Speaker 8] (50:54 - 50:54)
utilities

[Speaker 1] (50:54 - 50:55)
p it's a

[Speaker 8] (50:55 - 50:55)
are.

[Speaker 1] (50:55 - 50:56)
parking lot of antennas.

[Speaker 1] (50:55 - 50:56)
lot of utility,

[Speaker 9] (50:56 - 50:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (50:56 - 50:56)
in existing.

[Speaker 7] (50:56 - 50:57)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (50:57 - 50:58)
Incredible.

[Speaker 1] (50:58 - 51:03)
And some of that had to do with the fact that the the utilities, Right, you know,

[Speaker 8] (51:03 - 51:03)
right.

[Speaker 1] (51:03 - 51:21)
oh they're vertical but they weren't designed for. But I think that there's um I mean one of the things in all of this that we have to watch as we're talking by law is flexibility for progressing through what these systems look like.

[Speaker 1] (51:21 - 51:23)
Um you know, I I

[Speaker 1] (51:23 - 51:31)
It's been years now, my daughter was in high school, so she like five or six years ago, I found these amazing project in Brookline.

[Speaker 1] (51:32 - 51:38)
where it was a historic house and they used um they used solar shingles on

[Speaker 10] (51:38 - 51:38)
V

[Speaker 1] (51:38 - 51:38)
it

[Speaker 10] (51:38 - 51:39)
That's what I was talking

[Speaker 1] (51:39 - 51:39)
that

[Speaker 10] (51:39 - 51:39)
about at the

[Speaker 1] (51:39 - 51:40)
resembled

[Speaker 10] (51:40 - 51:40)
time. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (51:40 - 51:41)
they they

[Speaker 7] (51:41 - 51:41)
Hmm.

[Speaker 1] (51:41 - 51:43)
really resembled a slate roof

[Speaker 10] (51:43 - 51:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (51:43 - 51:59)
and if I wasn't looking like I was actually studying looking for something else on this house all of a sudden it dawned on me that a whole section of this house that was part of it was slate roof and part of it was uh was this. So technology will keep changing.

[Speaker 1] (51:59 - 52:14)
And sort of the issues around the heat pumps is they've they've never been designed for visual impact and that's that's will hopefully come because there's you know sort of a but

[Speaker 11] (52:14 - 52:14)
But it

[Speaker 1] (52:14 - 52:19)
you call virtue signaling now that you have look at this ugly thing I have on my house.

[Speaker 1] (52:20 - 52:26)
Yeah. So you know some of that will change. So if there was a way if we're looking at this to think about how

[Speaker 1] (52:27 - 52:33)
how it might be built into the wording to allow advances um in in the systems.

[Speaker 8] (52:34 - 52:38)
I I have a few concerns and a few thoughts on moving forward.

[Speaker 8] (52:39 - 52:43)
Concern number one we just kinda went through, we've got fifty percent of the roof area.

[Speaker 8] (52:44 - 52:54)
For t i for some of these buildings we've got fifty percent of the roof area that's flat and the rest is gabled. That roof area for most of these is being used by the utilities. So unless we're

[Speaker 8] (52:54 - 53:07)
Elevating the canopy above the utilities, or putting them on that gabled side, we're giving up the heat pumps and the all-electric production there to accommodate solar panels.

[Speaker 13] (53:07 - 53:07)
Right.

[Speaker 13] (53:08 - 53:14)
A building that's not that big, it just can't have it all on top if it wasn't, you know.

[Speaker 8] (53:14 - 53:16)
That is right.

[Speaker 8] (53:17 - 53:22)
Unless we go to a flat roof, which is something I requires more extensive zoning changes and I don't

[Speaker 13] (53:22 - 53:22)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (53:22 - 53:22)
think that's

[Speaker 13] (53:22 - 53:22)
I don't

[Speaker 8] (53:22 - 53:23)
something that's

[Speaker 13] (53:23 - 53:23)
think it's

[Speaker 8] (53:23 - 53:23)
worth

[Speaker 13] (53:23 - 53:25)
it's it's something we we got

[Speaker 8] (53:25 - 53:25)
Got

[Speaker 13] (53:25 - 53:25)
rid

[Speaker 8] (53:25 - 53:25)
rid

[Speaker 13] (53:25 - 53:25)
of

[Speaker 8] (53:25 - 53:26)
of right.

[Speaker 13] (53:26 - 53:27)
a while ago and

[Speaker 1] (53:27 - 53:33)
What was the what was the motivation to get rid of flat roofs? That seems really um heavy-handed.

[Speaker 13] (53:34 - 53:52)
Well outside of the B4 district, it was um I mean especially certainly if it was any residential project, we didn't want flat roof boxes and and you know we had never as you can imagine we've never seen a well-designed anything that was proposed.

[Speaker 13] (53:53 - 54:00)
You know, that could have been an exception that was so well designed that we would have said, you know what, this is the exception to the rule here.

[Speaker 1] (54:00 - 54:02)
Yeah. That,

[Speaker 13] (54:02 - 54:02)
So

[Speaker 1] (54:02 - 54:10)
because because that that to me is really, that's what I would consider very heavy hand as as policy.

[Speaker 8] (54:10 - 54:10)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (54:10 - 54:12)
As someone that grew up in a passive solar

[Speaker 13] (54:12 - 54:13)
I mean, we have

[Speaker 1] (54:13 - 54:13)
flat

[Speaker 13] (54:13 - 54:13)
flat

[Speaker 1] (54:13 - 54:13)
roof

[Speaker 13] (54:13 - 54:13)
roofs

[Speaker 1] (54:13 - 54:13)
house.

[Speaker 13] (54:13 - 54:17)
on some of this group. Even the B_ two district has flat roofs. That's not

[Speaker 1] (54:17 - 54:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (54:18 - 54:18)
prohibited.

[Speaker 1] (54:18 - 54:21)
No, I mean I grew up in a single family flat roofed house that was

[Speaker 1] (54:22 - 54:23)
Phenomenal.

[Speaker 8] (54:23 - 54:23)
And

[Speaker 1] (54:23 - 54:23)
But

[Speaker 8] (54:23 - 54:24)
you can still see there

[Speaker 13] (54:24 - 54:24)
They're

[Speaker 8] (54:24 - 54:24)
are some

[Speaker 13] (54:24 - 54:24)
sure

[Speaker 8] (54:24 - 54:25)
in town that are free

[Speaker 13] (54:25 - 54:25)
different

[Speaker 8] (54:25 - 54:26)
existing, not

[Speaker 1] (54:26 - 54:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (54:26 - 54:31)
conforming like on Mason Road, that right around the m uh the middle school there.

[Speaker 1] (54:31 - 54:32)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 13] (54:32 - 54:36)
Oh, t like Walnut, I think, where it's all those cool it's like it's a little it's a

[Speaker 1] (54:36 - 54:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (54:36 - 54:36)
whole enclave

[Speaker 1] (54:36 - 54:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (54:36 - 54:37)
of these really flat

[Speaker 1] (54:37 - 54:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (54:38 - 54:39)
cool houses.

[Speaker 7] (54:39 - 54:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (54:39 - 54:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (54:39 - 54:40)
From the same

[Speaker 7] (54:40 - 54:40)
Fifties stuff.

[Speaker 13] (54:40 - 54:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (54:40 - 54:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (54:40 - 54:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (54:41 - 54:41)
Exactly.

[Speaker 13] (54:41 - 54:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (54:41 - 54:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (54:42 - 54:43)
But um,

[Speaker 1] (54:44 - 54:47)
you know, it is it is a case where

[Speaker 1] (54:50 - 55:00)
maybe really hard thinking about even extending the exemptions a little bit more when it's in conflict with other energy efficiencies.

[Speaker 7] (55:00 - 55:02)
Right, right, I mean that was the comment from Watertown's planner,

[Speaker 13] (55:02 - 55:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (55:03 - 55:05)
you know, the Yeah. 50% was a problem at times. So,

[Speaker 1] (55:05 - 55:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (55:05 - 55:07)
yeah, I would certainly

[Speaker 1] (55:07 - 55:13)
50% of a roof is like I'm I'm thinking of one of my neighbors. Well,

[Speaker 1] (55:13 - 55:14)
and the other question I have is

[Speaker 1] (55:15 - 55:27)
What does roof area mean? Is that in plan or is that because like the roof area of this, if I'm measuring from elbow to elbow versus elbow to fingertip to fingertip to elbow, is r is really different. So

[Speaker 13] (55:27 - 55:27)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (55:27 - 55:37)
I think that's something that would need to be defined. Um because it might be might instead of being fifty percent of roof area, it might be fifty percent of footprint.

[Speaker 1] (55:38 - 55:50)
Um because that implies the flat area of the roof. And then y then you've got a calculation that's a little bit easier. But when I think about houses in the neighbourhood, um if you have a peaked roof

[Speaker 7] (55:50 - 55:51)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (55:51 - 55:57)
There is a very good chance, depending on the site, that half of that is not pointed in the direction that's gonna be of any value.

[Speaker 13] (55:57 - 55:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 14] (55:58 - 55:58)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (55:58 - 56:08)
And a hundred percent coverage of the other side of that, just if you if I draw like a child's drawing of a house and it's north south, you've got one side that's great and one side that isn't,

[Speaker 14] (56:08 - 56:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (56:08 - 56:12)
but to call out the entirety of this outside would be problematic.

[Speaker 1] (56:14 - 56:14)
So

[Speaker 7] (56:14 - 56:15)
But it

[Speaker 1] (56:15 - 56:20)
it might we might l we might look at what those numbers look like, 'cause that might not be

[Speaker 13] (56:21 - 56:21)
Um.

[Speaker 1] (56:21 - 56:29)
That that's something in the water town one when I looked at I was like that's a little heavy-handed in the sense of what does that do to design?

[Speaker 13] (56:31 - 56:35)
So, I guess I'd want to ask, what does success look like?

[Speaker 13] (56:36 - 56:40)
Is it anything that even has the sense of

[Speaker 13] (56:41 - 56:43)
you know, furthering the cause,

[Speaker 13] (56:44 - 56:47)
even if it's not really creating any specific,

[Speaker 13] (56:47 - 56:54)
I'm wondering what does it, and I don't, you know, I don't know how to measure it, and I guess that's, that's why I was trying to understand a little better before.

[Speaker 13] (56:56 - 57:04)
I'd want to know what does a successful bylaw look like and why would we want to do it, like if we have to go to town meeting and sell something

[Speaker 7] (57:04 - 57:05)
Yeah, no, it's a good question.

[Speaker 13] (57:05 - 57:09)
and convince town meeting that this is a good idea.

[Speaker 13] (57:10 - 57:15)
um I mean what's my argument, you know, or his argument. Is that it? I

[Speaker 7] (57:15 - 57:15)
Right.

[Speaker 13] (57:15 - 57:17)
don't have to do it anymore.

[Speaker 7] (57:17 - 57:22)
Well, in my in my little preamble I mentioned the fact that we've done this on our schools. Right.

[Speaker 13] (57:22 - 57:23)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (57:23 - 57:30)
So I mean, you know, it's possible to do if you want to. Right. It's it's, you know, it it's doable.

[Speaker 7] (57:30 - 57:42)
And I think this is more designed to encourage people to do it. I mean, my ideal way of doing this thing would be to get rid of all these regulations and charge $100 um a ton for \ for CO2 emissions the way it should have been done.

[Speaker 13] (57:42 - 57:42)
Hmm.

[Speaker 7] (57:42 - 57:50)
Was proposed under Clinton. Um that's the way it should be done, then you leave it to the market and it's just like, s you know, falling

[Speaker 8] (57:50 - 57:50)
Cap

[Speaker 7] (57:50 - 57:51)
down.

[Speaker 8] (57:51 - 57:51)
and trade.

[Speaker 7] (57:51 - 57:51)
You know what I'm saying?

[Speaker 8] (57:51 - 57:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (57:52 - 57:57)
But we're we're not unfortunately not able to do that because of the lobby I mentioned earlier.

[Speaker 7] (57:57 - 58:01)
And so we have to, you know, encourage,

[Speaker 7] (58:01 - 58:03)
shall we say, in any way we can.

[Speaker 7] (58:05 - 58:16)
this kind of thing. Now I don't want it to be too expensive and I don't want it to be impractical, so I really want to throw it at you guys and say, hey, if it's reasonable requirement isn't reasonable, don't require

[Speaker 13] (58:16 - 58:16)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (58:16 - 58:16)
it.

[Speaker 1] (58:16 - 58:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (58:16 - 58:16)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (58:16 - 58:17)
And that's what I'd

[Speaker 15] (58:17 - 58:17)
I mean

[Speaker 7] (58:17 - 58:17)
like to say.

[Speaker 15] (58:17 - 58:18)
the

[Speaker 13] (58:18 - 58:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (58:18 - 58:23)
motivation is really to offset the cost of electricity, right, because we're really encouraging

[Speaker 13] (58:23 - 58:23)
Right.

[Speaker 15] (58:23 - 58:26)
um everybody to go electric, go heat pumps.

[Speaker 15] (58:26 - 58:31)
But so, but now that cost is gonna, you know, continue increase.

[Speaker 15] (58:32 - 58:33)
So this is a way

[Speaker 13] (58:33 - 58:33)
Crazy.

[Speaker 15] (58:33 - 58:34)
to offset that

[Speaker 1] (58:34 - 58:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (58:34 - 58:34)
cost.

[Speaker 1] (58:34 - 58:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 15] (58:34 - 58:35)
Right, because

[Speaker 8] (58:35 - 58:35)
So as

[Speaker 15] (58:35 - 58:35)
you're

[Speaker 13] (58:35 - 58:35)
It's

[Speaker 8] (58:35 - 58:35)
part

[Speaker 15] (58:35 - 58:35)
producing

[Speaker 8] (58:35 - 58:36)
of a as

[Speaker 13] (58:36 - 58:36)
nuts.

[Speaker 15] (58:36 - 58:36)
your own

[Speaker 8] (58:36 - 58:39)
part of a dialogue, let me throw out my concerns and

[Speaker 13] (58:39 - 58:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (58:39 - 58:52)
then get your reaction and your reaction and we can kind of just discuss it and figure out productive next steps to alleviate my concerns or react to them and anybody else's concerns that they might have on the board.

[Speaker 8] (58:53 - 58:56)
One is I am nervous that doing something like this.

[Speaker 8] (58:57 - 59:11)
increases the cost of housing for housing production and makes Swampscott less desirable from a commercial standpoint for commercial redevelopment. We spent a lot of time at town meeting four years ago talking about the Vinnin Square

[Speaker 13] (59:12 - 59:12)
Every year.

[Speaker 8] (59:13 - 59:19)
yeah, but at the Vinnin Square district particularly with comments about how oh we should be requiring this,

[Speaker 8] (59:19 - 59:26)
we should be requiring that, because who wouldn't want to redevelop Vinnin Square? And the sad reality was well

[Speaker 8] (59:26 - 59:28)
A lot of people wouldn't because we have Kimco across

[Speaker 13] (59:28 - 59:29)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (59:29 - 59:29)
the street from

[Speaker 13] (59:29 - 59:29)
And who,

[Speaker 8] (59:29 - 59:30)
Swampscott

[Speaker 13] (59:30 - 59:30)
right.

[Speaker 8] (59:30 - 59:30)
Mall

[Speaker 13] (59:30 - 59:30)
But no

[Speaker 8] (59:30 - 59:30)
who

[Speaker 13] (59:30 - 59:31)
desire.

[Speaker 8] (59:31 - 59:34)
would say, you know, regardless. Um

[Speaker 2] (59:46 - 59:57)
So my nerves are that approving something like this makes it less desirable to invest here when I think it's already difficult to get investment in the commercial zone and on the housing production side.

[Speaker 2] (59:58 - 1:00:10)
adding this requirement increases the cost of housing and I'm not sure we have I don't think I've ever sat on this board and approved a condo development just practically speaking

[Speaker 2] (1:00:12 - 1:00:15)
I don't think, um it's always been apartments rentals. And if

[Speaker 3] (1:00:15 - 1:00:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:15 - 1:00:16)
for rentals

[Speaker 3] (1:00:16 - 1:00:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:16 - 1:00:18)
if the developer of a rental

[Speaker 3] (1:00:18 - 1:00:18)
Anything with

[Speaker 2] (1:00:18 - 1:00:18)
building

[Speaker 3] (1:00:18 - 1:00:27)
that has an affordable component, uh with the exception of a couple that were so, you know, luxury market condos that they did a payment in lieu like

[Speaker 2] (1:00:27 - 1:00:27)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:00:27 - 1:00:29)
the white white course for example.

[Speaker 4] (1:00:29 - 1:00:30)
Well, but

[Speaker 2] (1:00:30 - 1:00:35)
But in the five years I've been a almost five years I've been on the board, everything's been an apartment. And the reason why I bring that up

[Speaker 4] (1:00:35 - 1:00:38)
but uh b I think you didn't isn't the one on Eastman?

[Speaker 4] (1:00:38 - 1:00:39)
Condos?

[Speaker 3] (1:00:40 - 1:00:41)
I can, I don't know.

[Speaker 4] (1:00:41 - 1:00:46)
I believe it is, 'cause they're they were talking about that middle you know

[Speaker 2] (1:00:46 - 1:00:48)
Yeah, they they are they are going to be condos.

[Speaker 3] (1:00:48 - 1:00:48)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (1:00:48 - 1:00:49)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:49 - 1:00:52)
Um well I hear that would be required.

[Speaker 4] (1:00:53 - 1:00:53)
Because

[Speaker 2] (1:00:53 - 1:00:53)
We talk

[Speaker 4] (1:00:53 - 1:00:53)
the

[Speaker 2] (1:00:53 - 1:00:53)
about the

[Speaker 4] (1:00:53 - 1:00:53)
energy.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:53 - 1:00:53)
big,

[Speaker 3] (1:00:53 - 1:00:54)
Well, it's considered,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:54 - 1:00:54)
the big difference.

[Speaker 3] (1:00:54 - 1:00:59)
it's actually considered a commercial building, but it's a, you know, it's six units, right?

[Speaker 2] (1:00:59 - 1:01:19)
The reason why the ownership cost, the reason why I bring up the ownership is because if it's an apartment building, the developers absorbing all of the cost of construction in doing this and their energy use is minimal and just in the common space and the rental, the owners of the or the tenants of the rental units

[Speaker 2] (1:01:19 - 1:01:32)
are absorbing all the electrical cost. But not, you know, unless the cost of development for this portion of the solar is going to be passed on to them. They're not going to reap the benefits because it's individually metered.

[Speaker 4] (1:01:32 - 1:01:40)
I do think it's reasonable though to step back from this and recognize it's not a hundred percent about cost. It's about moving off of

[Speaker 5] (1:01:41 - 1:01:42)
on

[Speaker 2] (1:01:42 - 1:01:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:42 - 1:01:44)
sustainable practices um and

[Speaker 3] (1:01:44 - 1:01:48)
Yeah, but you've been you put your commercial developers you

[Speaker 5] (1:01:48 - 1:01:50)
No no no no, I I I

[Speaker 3] (1:01:50 - 1:01:50)
know what I'm talking

[Speaker 5] (1:01:50 - 1:01:50)
I under

[Speaker 3] (1:01:50 - 1:01:50)
about.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:50 - 1:01:51)
I understand

[Speaker 2] (1:01:51 - 1:01:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:01:51 - 1:01:59)
that, I mean this this isn't this isn't terribly appealing on that level. Um in a town as

[Speaker 5] (1:02:01 - 1:02:07)
as developed as we are, um the people that are targeting

[Speaker 4] (1:02:09 - 1:02:11)
doing projects here.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:13 - 1:02:26)
I I don't know I I I'm not positive that that's really gonna chase people away. Because they may find land somewhere that it's not here with a commuter rail that's twenty five minutes into the city, it's not here with five beaches, it's not you know, there's

[Speaker 2] (1:02:26 - 1:02:27)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:27 - 1:02:29)
there's a balance of of things like that.

[Speaker 4] (1:02:29 - 1:02:30)
The um

[Speaker 2] (1:02:32 - 1:02:39)
Let me push back on that for a second. The Glover family district was a 40R for seven years

[Speaker 3] (1:02:39 - 1:02:40)
Mm-hmm, at least.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:41 - 1:02:43)
and got nothing until

[Speaker 3] (1:02:43 - 1:02:43)
Nothing.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:43 - 1:02:59)
we had to extensively rewrite zoning and now that's a whole other conversation we'll get into soon I'm sure for projects. So even with areas that can be redeveloped that have beneficial zoning to redevelop

[Speaker 2] (1:02:59 - 1:03:04)
it didn't attract it doesn't attract the development until extensive

[Speaker 3] (1:03:04 - 1:03:05)
I think when you get developers

[Speaker 2] (1:03:05 - 1:03:06)
concessions

[Speaker 3] (1:03:06 - 1:03:06)
I don't

[Speaker 2] (1:03:06 - 1:03:06)
are being

[Speaker 3] (1:03:06 - 1:03:06)
I

[Speaker 2] (1:03:06 - 1:03:07)
offered.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:07 - 1:03:14)
a lot of developers are not you know they're not I unless you are working with a firm that's particularly

[Speaker 3] (1:03:15 - 1:03:19)
tuned in to these these issues,

[Speaker 2] (1:03:19 - 1:03:19)
Technologies.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:19 - 1:03:32)
and which makes me start thinking about, you know, can we look at incentive? Is there a different way, you know, instead of i use a carrot instead of a stick type of thing, and

[Speaker 4] (1:03:32 - 1:03:34)
That there would be some sort of

[Speaker 3] (1:03:34 - 1:03:34)
you know,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:34 - 1:03:35)
reward

[Speaker 3] (1:03:35 - 1:03:35)
one.

[Speaker 4] (1:03:35 - 1:03:36)
for

[Speaker 2] (1:03:36 - 1:03:37)
Density.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:37 - 1:03:37)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:37 - 1:03:37)
for

[Speaker 5] (1:03:37 - 1:03:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:37 - 1:03:37)
some

[Speaker 4] (1:03:37 - 1:03:37)
operating.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:37 - 1:03:38)
things.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:38 - 1:03:41)
Something, I don't know what, but something,

[Speaker 5] (1:03:41 - 1:03:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:41 - 1:03:45)
to fre, 'cause there's whose goals are they? Well they're the town's goals.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:46 - 1:03:48)
Okay, we all adopted this

[Speaker 5] (1:03:48 - 1:03:48)
Mm.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:48 - 1:04:03)
by law. Okay, so they're our goals. So putting the burden on of them on a developer doesn't seem fair when half the time they're gonna watch, they're gonna flip it and walk away.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:04 - 1:04:06)
or at least like Leggett McCall was going

[Speaker 5] (1:04:06 - 1:04:12)
to. But but at the same time I mean to be honest with you the flip it and walk away

[Speaker 3] (1:04:14 - 1:04:16)
But that's who we get a lot of the time. I mean,

[Speaker 5] (1:04:17 - 1:04:21)
okay but I I don't necessarily think that that is best practice.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:21 - 1:04:23)
I'm not I'm not disagreeing

[Speaker 5] (1:04:23 - 1:04:23)
No

[Speaker 3] (1:04:23 - 1:04:23)
with you.

[Speaker 5] (1:04:23 - 1:04:29)
no I I mean one of my concerns is that this is you

[Speaker 5] (1:04:31 - 1:04:31)
know from a

[Speaker 5] (1:04:34 - 1:05:00)
from the standpoint of like what is the relation the relationship between a town and developer in my opinion needs to be balanced and that if we have a town that has a goal you know that that we identify as being green we have a town that believes in um believes in these modes I I

[Speaker 5] (1:05:01 - 1:05:05)
I don't think it's a bad thing to be thinking about how to how do we encourage this. And

[Speaker 3] (1:05:05 - 1:05:05)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:05 - 1:05:07)
it's like well this isn't the cheapest way to build.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:08 - 1:05:17)
Okay, it isn't the cheapest way to build, but it's it's it's what we're looking for. The I am more caught up in the

[Speaker 5] (1:05:18 - 1:05:25)
when we're talking about a development like we'll use the the um the Glover project.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:26 - 1:05:27)
Um

[Speaker 5] (1:05:29 - 1:05:38)
when we get a project that is is tall does not have as much roof as it has dens dense is densely occupied

[Speaker 3] (1:05:38 - 1:05:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:39 - 1:05:53)
by the time we get the panels on, um are we I mean anything in that direction is positive, but at the same time, realistically over that many units

[Speaker 4] (1:05:53 - 1:06:04)
getting X amount of panels because of the square footage. Um and especially if we have to make, you know, realistically that's where a lot of systems are on the roof,

[Speaker 4] (1:06:05 - 1:06:06)
the lot is small,

[Speaker 2] (1:06:06 - 1:06:06)
Christina.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:06 - 1:06:07)
we don't have room for

[Speaker 2] (1:06:07 - 1:06:08)
Christina.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:08 - 1:06:09)
We don't have

[Speaker 2] (1:06:09 - 1:06:09)
People

[Speaker 4] (1:06:09 - 1:06:09)
it

[Speaker 2] (1:06:09 - 1:06:10)
who wanted to get admitted.

[Speaker 6] (1:06:10 - 1:06:10)
Oh

[Speaker 4] (1:06:10 - 1:06:12)
we don't necessarily have

[Speaker 2] (1:06:12 - 1:06:12)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (1:06:12 - 1:06:21)
have ground room to to be adding them somewhere else. Then we might be in water town like the where water town is struggling.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:21 - 1:06:37)
Yeah. Um so I think there's I think there's some great ide ideas here and I really I I think that it is it is fine tuning it. I I like the idea of there being something that is encouraging it

[Speaker 5] (1:06:39 - 1:06:39)
Um.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:39 - 1:07:07)
Well just like we would do you know we want whenever we might want if we want to convert something to middle type housing or or you know zoning I mean what's our incentive you know why if that's what we decide or we embrace and we want those things to happen how can we how do we make that how do we create a bythought that says let's you know let's help you get there you know what I mean instead of you know taking another stick out and saying

[Speaker 3] (1:07:07 - 1:07:10)
i'm saying and if you don't do this we're gonna whack you.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:10 - 1:07:10)
Do is there

[Speaker 3] (1:07:10 - 1:07:10)
You

[Speaker 5] (1:07:10 - 1:07:11)
a way

[Speaker 3] (1:07:11 - 1:07:11)
know

[Speaker 5] (1:07:11 - 1:07:15)
to know what the like one of the things is like we're reacting to cost

[Speaker 3] (1:07:15 - 1:07:16)
no, I

[Speaker 5] (1:07:16 - 1:07:16)
But

[Speaker 4] (1:07:16 - 1:07:16)
just Well

[Speaker 5] (1:07:16 - 1:07:17)
at that same time

[Speaker 3] (1:07:17 - 1:07:17)
I don't

[Speaker 5] (1:07:17 - 1:07:20)
I think we have to be careful because we don't really know what these numbers look like

[Speaker 7] (1:07:20 - 1:07:20)
what

[Speaker 3] (1:07:20 - 1:07:21)
so

[Speaker 7] (1:07:21 - 1:07:21)
a look

[Speaker 3] (1:07:21 - 1:07:23)
I guess I don't want it to feel punitive.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:23 - 1:07:35)
And I'd like them to feel like you know they're meet they're doing something good and they're going to get something for it and it furthers our goals as a town right. So I'm I don't know you know how to do it but

[Speaker 7] (1:07:35 - 1:07:36)
A couple things, first of all we do

[Speaker 7] (1:07:36 - 1:07:42)
We do have that one quote for being paid $100,000 a year to do this.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:42 - 1:07:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:42 - 1:07:43)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (1:07:43 - 1:07:44)
So it doesn't make it But sound

[Speaker 5] (1:07:44 - 1:07:44)
is it

[Speaker 7] (1:07:44 - 1:07:44)
like

[Speaker 5] (1:07:44 - 1:07:50)
being paid $100,000 a year after they take on the, like,

[Speaker 5] (1:07:50 - 1:07:54)
who's holding the construction costs? Is it we do this for free and we give you $100,000 a year?

[Speaker 7] (1:07:56 - 1:07:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:56 - 1:07:58)
But was there reason for not wanting to do it?

[Speaker 7] (1:07:58 - 1:08:01)
We provide a roof and we'll put the solar cells on it.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:01 - 1:08:02)
and collect

[Speaker 2] (1:08:02 - 1:08:02)
Lease

[Speaker 7] (1:08:02 - 1:08:02)
the revenue.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:02 - 1:08:04)
liability, long-term lease liability

[Speaker 3] (1:08:04 - 1:08:04)
Um,

[Speaker 2] (1:08:04 - 1:08:04)
of leasing

[Speaker 3] (1:08:04 - 1:08:05)
yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:05 - 1:08:05)
the panels.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:05 - 1:08:07)
So it doesn't make it sound like it's a terrible

[Speaker 3] (1:08:07 - 1:08:08)
If,

[Speaker 7] (1:08:08 - 1:08:08)
part

[Speaker 3] (1:08:08 - 1:08:08)
I know

[Speaker 7] (1:08:08 - 1:08:08)
of there it.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:08 - 1:08:09)
was a good reason.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:09 - 1:08:21)
I mean I have some experience, I have a little rental place in Peabody, and I have solar cells on the roof and I I give my uh tenants the the electricity and it's a really big incentive for them to to live there.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:21 - 1:08:22)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (1:08:22 - 1:08:22)
I mean

[Speaker 3] (1:08:22 - 1:08:22)
definitely.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:22 - 1:08:27)
you know I put in the heat pumps too and so you know they don't pay for anything For really.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:27 - 1:08:27)
they're paying rent

[Speaker 4] (1:08:27 - 1:08:30)
and their heat is covered and their

[Speaker 5] (1:08:30 - 1:08:30)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:30 - 1:08:30)
electricity is

[Speaker 7] (1:08:30 - 1:08:31)
The

[Speaker 4] (1:08:31 - 1:08:31)
covered.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:31 - 1:08:31)
whole thing's covered.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:32 - 1:08:32)
Wow.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:33 - 1:08:37)
Uh you know, what I mean you can make a you can make a fairly substantial commercial case for that, you know.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:37 - 1:08:38)
Definitely.

[Speaker 7] (1:08:38 - 1:08:38)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:38 - 1:08:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:39 - 1:08:43)
Yep. And that's that's what I was mentioning before is I think your it isn't

[Speaker 5] (1:08:44 - 1:08:49)
We're asking them to do something, but it's not like we're asking them to do something that's degrading the value

[Speaker 3] (1:08:49 - 1:08:49)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:49 - 1:08:51)
of that product. And if that product

[Speaker 3] (1:08:51 - 1:08:51)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:51 - 1:08:56)
is a rental product or that product is a purchase product, that's that's

[Speaker 3] (1:08:56 - 1:08:56)
how Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:56 - 1:09:01)
maybe that is actually how it gets presented and marketed.

[Speaker 3] (1:09:01 - 1:09:10)
You know on the build the type of building in our town where I feel like this really belongs and is a commercial building like five guys.

[Speaker 3] (1:09:11 - 1:09:12)
Like Five Guys,

[Speaker 7] (1:09:12 - 1:09:12)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:09:12 - 1:09:21)
a smallish building where you could literally probably cover most of the roof and, you know, what three or four businesses and that are, I'm sure,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:21 - 1:09:28)
using plenty of electricity, you know, it just would be an easy, I mean that to me is an easy kind

[Speaker 7] (1:09:28 - 1:09:28)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:28 - 1:09:28)
of, it's

[Speaker 7] (1:09:28 - 1:09:29)
it's straight,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
perfect.

[Speaker 7] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
it's straight it's straight

[Speaker 1] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
it's

[Speaker 2] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
that

[Speaker 1] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
perfect.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:29 - 1:09:30)
they don't do it honestly,

[Speaker 2] (1:09:31 - 1:09:31)
I mean you know,

[Speaker 1] (1:09:31 - 1:09:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:32 - 1:09:32)
makes you wonder.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:33 - 1:09:36)
I mean maybe it's just not worth their while or they don't really

[Speaker 3] (1:09:36 - 1:09:36)
From

[Speaker 2] (1:09:36 - 1:09:37)
care.

[Speaker 3] (1:09:37 - 1:09:40)
my understanding with some of these opportunities,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:40 - 1:09:43)
if someone's willing to pay for it, they usually want a 10,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:43 - 1:09:44)
8,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:44 - 1:09:44)
10,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:44 - 1:09:44)
12,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:44 - 1:09:50)
15 year lease for the panels at that location and from the few conversations I've had about this, that's a

[Speaker 3] (1:09:51 - 1:09:52)
uh disincentive

[Speaker 4] (1:09:52 - 1:09:53)
Oh.

[Speaker 3] (1:09:53 - 1:09:55)
for the building to be flipped and sold to another property owner

[Speaker 2] (1:09:55 - 1:09:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:09:55 - 1:09:58)
when they have a long-term lease liability that they have to assume.

[Speaker 5] (1:09:58 - 1:10:08)
It was just an article actually in the Globe and I didn't I didn't dive into it about there are houses that they're finding having the solar panels on them

[Speaker 5] (1:10:09 - 1:10:24)
are causing, uh I think there was in the Sunday Globe real estate section, and I d I I didn't I I w will go home and read it tonight, but it was something about how a lot of people are it's it's sort of like the in-ground pool that um,

[Speaker 3] (1:10:24 - 1:10:24)
Hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:10:24 - 1:10:33)
you know, people think they're they're creating an asset and then in some other people's perception now personally if I never had to play an electric bill again I'd be thrilled.

[Speaker 6] (1:10:33 - 1:10:34)
You and me both.

[Speaker 5] (1:10:34 - 1:10:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:35 - 1:10:37)
I think Ted's Ted's uh

[Speaker 2] (1:10:38 - 1:10:43)
You know, what he was talking about there may apply to single family houses too. You if you have installed them on a lease

[Speaker 5] (1:10:43 - 1:10:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:43 - 1:10:46)
arrangement, then the the new owners get the lease.

[Speaker 5] (1:10:46 - 1:10:48)
And that and I think that that is Uh where its

[Speaker 1] (1:10:48 - 1:10:48)
that's

[Speaker 5] (1:10:48 - 1:10:53)
people are concerned because they're buying a house, but they're also buying a lease uh, you know,

[Speaker 2] (1:10:53 - 1:10:56)
It's but like when you buy a house with a rental water heater, you know.

[Speaker 5] (1:10:57 - 1:10:57)
Yeah, with a tenant.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:58 - 1:10:58)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (1:10:58 - 1:10:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:58 - 1:10:59)
that's actually a good way to

[Speaker 2] (1:11:00 - 1:11:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:01 - 1:11:01)
Um

[Speaker 2] (1:11:02 - 1:11:02)
It

[Speaker 5] (1:11:02 - 1:11:02)
The

[Speaker 2] (1:11:02 - 1:11:03)
shows

[Speaker 5] (1:11:03 - 1:11:04)
other panel as tenant.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:04 - 1:11:05)
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:05 - 1:11:12)
The other point, and I had a conversation with a multifamily developer of mid to large buildings,

[Speaker 3] (1:11:12 - 1:11:24)
a conversation with them about this, was their payback period on their most recent project they did in New Hampshire was 12 to 15 years after the change,

[Speaker 3] (1:11:24 - 1:11:27)
recent federal changes in incentives.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:28 - 1:11:43)
Which is another conversation entirely, but um regardless, that was their payback period and it they had mentioned that's why we don't put them on all of our buildings, because incentives and paybacks change every two years it feels like,

[Speaker 7] (1:11:43 - 1:11:43)
Hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:43 - 1:11:45)
um with the s state and federal politics.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:47 - 1:11:50)
So that's another reason that gives me pause and again I wanna

[Speaker 3] (1:11:51 - 1:11:56)
say gives me pause because I appreciate the energy you guys put into this, it's more thorough and diligent than any other

[Speaker 3] (1:11:56 - 1:12:19)
committees' bylaw interests have ever been and that's a very good thing and we appreciate it. Um but I just I have a few concerns about having a bylaw like this that I don't wanna have projects become more expensive. I don't wanna have projects become I don't want Swampscott to be an uninc considered to be a place that

[Speaker 3] (1:12:20 - 1:12:34)
is uninvestable based on the feedback that I got from a few of the developers I spoke to about this. While at the same time I share Angela's mentality that the renewable energy committee, whatever it was before the name change, um

[Speaker 1] (1:12:34 - 1:12:35)
Climate Action

[Speaker 3] (1:12:35 - 1:12:43)
climate action committee, that plan was adopted by town meeting, so I do wanna find ways to make progress towards that. At the same time I don't wanna to

[Speaker 3] (1:12:44 - 1:12:54)
Use another expression, cut our nose to spite our face with other goals we have about housing production affordable housing and trying to get more development in town to help our commercial tax base.

[Speaker 2] (1:12:54 - 1:12:55)
Ted, can I ask

[Speaker 3] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
I

[Speaker 2] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
you a want quick question?

[Speaker 3] (1:12:55 - 1:12:57)
to try and figure out the two balances there. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:12:57 - 1:13:05)
Have you ever found a developer who thought that uh another requirement was going to be, you know, a good idea and feasible and they loved it?

[Speaker 3] (1:13:05 - 1:13:12)
No, but on that same note, I think they would ha a lot of towns would have that reaction to our inclusionary housing by-law, which we have.

[Speaker 8] (1:13:12 - 1:13:13)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:13 - 1:13:21)
But there's two hundred and some odd communities in the Commonwealth that have that same by-law. And there's only one community in Massachusetts that has a by-law like this. So

[Speaker 2] (1:13:21 - 1:13:21)
Huh.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:21 - 1:13:23)
it gives me pause to think

[Speaker 3] (1:13:24 - 1:13:24)
that

[Speaker 8] (1:13:24 - 1:13:25)
Nobody

[Speaker 3] (1:13:25 - 1:13:25)
this is

[Speaker 8] (1:13:25 - 1:13:25)
else

[Speaker 3] (1:13:25 - 1:13:25)
adoptable

[Speaker 8] (1:13:25 - 1:13:26)
has a by-law like this?

[Speaker 3] (1:13:26 - 1:13:27)
outside of

[Speaker 2] (1:13:27 - 1:13:31)
I I can check, I mean I I didn't really check on that.

[Speaker 8] (1:13:31 - 1:13:31)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 2] (1:13:32 - 1:13:35)
But, uh you know, it seems to work in Watertown, it's by Yeah. calling them and

[Speaker 1] (1:13:35 - 1:13:36)
Oh, there, yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:13:36 - 1:13:36)
asking them.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:36 - 1:13:43)
they do have a more different type of community, meaning in terms of its size and so forth, but still.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:43 - 1:13:45)
It's the hottest commercial real estate market outside

[Speaker 1] (1:13:45 - 1:13:45)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:45 - 1:13:46)
of Boston

[Speaker 1] (1:13:46 - 1:13:47)
Yeah, I'm aware.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:47 - 1:13:47)
in the Commonwealth.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:47 - 1:13:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:49 - 1:13:55)
So mm and again just my opinion, I think we've gotten a variety of opinions, at least from from a few of us.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:55 - 1:13:55)
Mm.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:55 - 1:13:58)
My opinion is this is something maybe

[Speaker 3] (1:13:59 - 1:14:01)
Wouldn't be the best for Swampscott.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:01 - 1:14:02)
However,

[Speaker 3] (1:14:02 - 1:14:08)
there might be things that we can do and add into our bylaws that can

[Speaker 9] (1:14:08 - 1:14:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:08 - 1:14:10)
similarly advance some of these goals

[Speaker 3] (1:14:10 - 1:14:11)
without

[Speaker 5] (1:14:11 - 1:14:14)
So this is just a really quick search.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:14 - 1:14:16)
Athol, East Hampton, Leverett, Norrell,

[Speaker 5] (1:14:16 - 1:14:16)
Paxton,

[Speaker 5] (1:14:17 - 1:14:20)
Shutesbury, and Watertown have implemented specific ordinances

[Speaker 1] (1:14:20 - 1:14:24)
What were the other ones? So out west, Athol, East Hampton, that's also in the west.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:24 - 1:14:27)
Athol East Hampton, Athol East Hampton

[Speaker 1] (1:14:27 - 1:14:27)
I know,

[Speaker 5] (1:14:27 - 1:14:28)
Leverett.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:28 - 1:14:28)
you could.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:28 - 1:14:29)
You could get.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:29 - 1:14:29)
It was tongue

[Speaker 5] (1:14:29 - 1:14:29)
Norwell,

[Speaker 1] (1:14:29 - 1:14:30)
-tied on that.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:30 - 1:14:31)
which is south

[Speaker 1] (1:14:31 - 1:14:31)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:31 - 1:14:32)
of

[Speaker 10] (1:14:32 - 1:14:32)
Hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:32 - 1:14:34)
Faxten and

[Speaker 1] (1:14:34 - 1:14:34)
Where

[Speaker 5] (1:14:34 - 1:14:35)
Shootsbury. I

[Speaker 1] (1:14:35 - 1:14:35)
I

[Speaker 5] (1:14:35 - 1:14:35)
don't

[Speaker 1] (1:14:35 - 1:14:35)
don't know

[Speaker 5] (1:14:35 - 1:14:35)
even where know

[Speaker 1] (1:14:35 - 1:14:35)
Paxton

[Speaker 5] (1:14:35 - 1:14:36)
where those are.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:36 - 1:14:36)
is

[Speaker 3] (1:14:36 - 1:14:36)
Paxton's

[Speaker 1] (1:14:36 - 1:14:36)
either.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:36 - 1:14:37)
next to Oxford-Worcester

[Speaker 1] (1:14:37 - 1:14:38)
Ah, so

[Speaker 3] (1:14:38 - 1:14:38)
area.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:38 - 1:14:39)
west, okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:40 - 1:14:40)
Central.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:41 - 1:14:41)
Central.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:41 - 1:14:42)
Don't tell them they're west,

[Speaker 1] (1:14:42 - 1:14:42)
All

[Speaker 3] (1:14:42 - 1:14:42)
they're east.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:42 - 1:14:42)
right,

[Speaker 10] (1:14:42 - 1:14:43)
I was just near Central. Worcester.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:43 - 1:14:44)
Anything that's west of us.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:46 - 1:14:46)
Central,

[Speaker 1] (1:14:47 - 1:14:48)
I get it. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:51 - 1:14:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 11] (1:14:52 - 1:14:55)
Yes, I have some thoughts also if it's

[Speaker 1] (1:14:55 - 1:14:55)
Yeah,

[Speaker 11] (1:14:55 - 1:14:55)
okay for

[Speaker 1] (1:14:55 - 1:14:55)
I

[Speaker 3] (1:14:55 - 1:14:55)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:55 - 1:14:55)
was

[Speaker 11] (1:14:55 - 1:14:55)
me to

[Speaker 1] (1:14:55 - 1:14:58)
just going to ask you if it was your experience on this.

[Speaker 11] (1:14:58 - 1:15:15)
Um thank you for your presentation. Um so a few thoughts when it comes to um just the writing and definitions for solar bylaw like we were talking about. We don't want to make it too prescriptive because the technology is ever changing. So

[Speaker 11] (1:15:16 - 1:15:24)
It would need potentially really broad definition of solar energy system. That way you're not having to constantly change it when the technology changes. So it's

[Speaker 13] (1:15:24 - 1:15:24)
Right.

[Speaker 11] (1:15:24 - 1:15:26)
keeping those definitions broad,

[Speaker 11] (1:15:27 - 1:15:36)
um and maybe keeping the standards um more performance-based and more general um like using the best technology, that kind of thing.

[Speaker 13] (1:15:36 - 1:15:36)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 11] (1:15:36 - 1:15:42)
Um so it doesn't get too specific in that way. Um it becomes irrelevant.

[Speaker 11] (1:15:43 - 1:16:07)
Um you know, and that's if we're writing an something into the by-law, there also are a lot of different um planning studies and ways to focus on just incentivising solar development. So I know we talked about that a little bit. So rather than um having these strict requirements, it

[Speaker 2] (1:16:07 - 1:16:07)
It's

[Speaker 11] (1:16:07 - 1:16:08)
is

[Speaker 2] (1:16:08 - 1:16:08)
like looking at

[Speaker 11] (1:16:08 - 1:16:08)
proposing

[Speaker 2] (1:16:08 - 1:16:08)
it.

[Speaker 11] (1:16:08 - 1:16:18)
different zoning incentives whether that's like streamlined permitting like if someone wants to come in they basically have no barriers it makes it much easier to come in and put it on um you

[Speaker 14] (1:16:18 - 1:16:19)
I like that.

[Speaker 11] (1:16:19 - 1:16:20)
know things like that

[Speaker 14] (1:16:20 - 1:16:20)
Right.

[Speaker 11] (1:16:20 - 1:16:29)
are are ways to incentivize it um you know on top of whether or not you actually have the bat the bylaw in place

[Speaker 11] (1:16:30 - 1:16:42)
Um and there are that's the only one you know one of the only ones that comes to the top of my head, but I know that there are many ways you know that um different municipalities have been trying to in incentivise um solar,

[Speaker 11] (1:16:43 - 1:16:58)
even if it's not requiring outright with all of these different standards. So there different ways to go about it, and um definitely whichever way we decide to go, um one way or another we can we can definitely look into what

[Speaker 11] (1:16:59 - 1:17:25)
you know, best practices are for incentives if if that's the way we want to go, but also um you know if there is specific language that um really is c you know preparing for the future and considering all of those different factors of how things might change I think um that's uh another way to go about it, at least when writing in bylaws. 'Cause you don't wanna have to go all the way back to a meeting to change it again.

[Speaker 2] (1:17:25 - 1:17:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:17:25 - 1:17:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 11] (1:17:26 - 1:17:31)
So I'm really thinking towards the future when it comes to technology and things like that.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:33 - 1:17:53)
Um we also want to be really careful with um bringing any zoning by-law to town meeting. We have to feel really confident that we're gonna get there because if it fails, we can't bring it back for a couple years, and which really can set things back if you just want to go work on something again, you know, and fine-tune it.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:54 - 1:18:14)
So I don't think we're there in this bylaw. I think that, I think it's, I think it's, I understand the motivation to do it because I think we need to find what are some ways with teeth that we can advance in what we want to do. And it's just,

[Speaker 1] (1:18:14 - 1:18:19)
you know, it's a funny balancing act or just a delicate balancing act with this one.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:22 - 1:18:29)
I would think some of the ideas that you just mentioned in terms of incentives, either density bonuses for multi-family,

[Speaker 1] (1:18:29 - 1:18:29)
Right.

[Speaker 11] (1:18:29 - 1:18:29)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:29 - 1:18:31)
streamlined permitting in terms

[Speaker 1] (1:18:31 - 1:18:31)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:31 - 1:18:31)
of

[Speaker 1] (1:18:31 - 1:18:33)
Setbacks, something like that.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:33 - 1:18:35)
yeah, other incentives

[Speaker 1] (1:18:35 - 1:18:36)
Yeah. Things that we're always

[Speaker 3] (1:18:36 - 1:18:36)
to

[Speaker 1] (1:18:36 - 1:18:36)
asking

[Speaker 3] (1:18:36 - 1:18:36)
me seem

[Speaker 1] (1:18:36 - 1:18:36)
for.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:36 - 1:18:48)
incredibly uh much more appealing to consider and rephrase it that way. Um because that's we're giving them something and they're giving us something.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:49 - 1:18:50)
To me that seems

[Speaker 1] (1:18:50 - 1:18:50)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:50 - 1:18:50)
like

[Speaker 1] (1:18:50 - 1:18:50)
or

[Speaker 3] (1:18:50 - 1:18:51)
more of a fair

[Speaker 1] (1:18:51 - 1:18:53)
improving the parking, you know,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:53 - 1:18:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:18:53 - 1:18:53)
like garden

[Speaker 3] (1:18:53 - 1:18:54)
minimizing

[Speaker 1] (1:18:54 - 1:18:54)
spaces.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:54 - 1:18:56)
parking requirements from one and a half

[Speaker 1] (1:18:56 - 1:18:56)
There's

[Speaker 3] (1:18:56 - 1:18:56)
to one.

[Speaker 1] (1:18:56 - 1:19:01)
always something we can figure out, you know, like I said, just,

[Speaker 1] (1:19:01 - 1:19:02)
you know, carrots.

[Speaker 5] (1:19:03 - 1:19:08)
I hate to say this, though, but just a lot of these we have to be very thoughtful about how we we

[Speaker 1] (1:19:08 - 1:19:08)
Exactly.

[Speaker 5] (1:19:08 - 1:19:09)
envision that because

[Speaker 15] (1:19:09 - 1:19:09)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 5] (1:19:09 - 1:19:16)
like when it comes to setbacks, when it comes to comes to parking, these tend to be the things that ignite the neighbourhood.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:16 - 1:19:17)
I know. I know.

[Speaker 3] (1:19:17 - 1:19:18)
But

[Speaker 1] (1:19:18 - 1:19:18)
So

[Speaker 3] (1:19:18 - 1:19:18)
they I also

[Speaker 1] (1:19:18 - 1:19:18)
don't

[Speaker 3] (1:19:18 - 1:19:18)
seem

[Speaker 1] (1:19:18 - 1:19:18)
know.

[Speaker 3] (1:19:18 - 1:19:24)
to be the things that we ha also get in regular conversations about with these type of building

[Speaker 2] (1:19:25 - 1:19:25)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:19:25 - 1:19:26)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:26 - 1:19:34)
But now if we have a they all they all ask for them and we ha we collectively figure out ways okay what if we give you that what are you going to give us?

[Speaker 1] (1:19:35 - 1:19:39)
This is a concrete thing that they can give us and we can be

[Speaker 1] (1:19:39 - 1:19:41)
performative about in a good way.

[Speaker 2] (1:19:41 - 1:19:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:42 - 1:19:43)
But I agree with you we

[Speaker 1] (1:19:44 - 1:19:45)
don't want to

[Speaker 4] (1:19:45 - 1:19:46)
I do think it's

[Speaker 1] (1:19:46 - 1:19:46)
I dunno,

[Speaker 4] (1:19:46 - 1:19:46)
better.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:46 - 1:19:47)
it's better face for

[Speaker 4] (1:19:47 - 1:19:57)
We've gotta be able to do a bit of sort of, you know, trading a little horse trading which is not unusual to incentivise when there's b it's done all the time. It's written into the on prerequisite overlay district,

[Speaker 1] (1:19:57 - 1:19:58)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:58 - 1:19:59)
I mean it's stuff we can

[Speaker 1] (1:19:59 - 1:20:01)
The Glover multifamily overlay district and

[Speaker 4] (1:20:01 - 1:20:02)
We can

[Speaker 5] (1:20:02 - 1:20:02)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:02 - 1:20:02)
do all all

[Speaker 5] (1:20:02 - 1:20:02)
of that.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:02 - 1:20:03)
all the time. Um so

[Speaker 1] (1:20:03 - 1:20:07)
Oh all good. The the Glover farmhouse parcel is one

[Speaker 5] (1:20:07 - 1:20:07)
Oh yeah yeah yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:07 - 1:20:09)
yeah. I think

[Speaker 1] (1:20:10 - 1:20:14)
Um I think that's those are things that sound appealing to me at least.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:14 - 1:20:15)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:15 - 1:20:28)
And um the other thing that I've had in the back of my head, we have one of our standards in site plan review is um environmental or resiliency uh something

[Speaker 4] (1:20:28 - 1:20:28)
That's

[Speaker 1] (1:20:28 - 1:20:28)
along those

[Speaker 4] (1:20:28 - 1:20:28)
very

[Speaker 1] (1:20:28 - 1:20:28)
lines.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:28 - 1:20:29)
vague,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:29 - 1:20:35)
Y yeah. it's it's vague which is a good thing, because to Chris's point, we don't wanna have to change the language every three years when we have new technologies.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:36 - 1:20:45)
Something that I think I would look to your committee to consider is a rubric or something along those lines for us to,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:45 - 1:20:48)
as we're analyzing projects,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:48 - 1:20:49)
we can say, okay,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:49 - 1:20:53)
for us to think about if it hits a 20 on this rubric,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:54 - 1:20:54)
we know it's...

[Speaker 1] (1:20:55 - 1:20:56)
a good project from a resiliency

[Speaker 4] (1:20:56 - 1:20:56)
That's

[Speaker 1] (1:20:56 - 1:20:56)
perspective.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:56 - 1:20:57)
a great idea.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:57 - 1:20:58)
And

[Speaker 4] (1:20:58 - 1:20:58)
That's

[Speaker 1] (1:20:58 - 1:20:58)
if it's

[Speaker 4] (1:20:58 - 1:20:58)
a great idea.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:58 - 1:21:00)
less than that it doesn't.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:00 - 1:21:04)
Sometimes we're sort of wondering like does that make sense? Does this make sense? Yeah, that would be super helpful.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:04 - 1:21:07)
For example if you have solar panels you get five points or seven points.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:07 - 1:21:20)
If you have spray foam insulation of R value X Y or Z you get two points. If you have heat pumps, you know, I'm just spitting things off you probably know a lot more the other things that would make a building more resilient and energy efficient.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:21 - 1:21:26)
um something like that would be an easy thing for the planning board to vote to approve,

[Speaker 4] (1:21:26 - 1:21:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:26 - 1:21:33)
not have to go to town meeting for, but we can approve that and consider that as one of our internal operating procedures.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:33 - 1:21:35)
Yeah. So do you already have a scoring

[Speaker 1] (1:21:36 - 1:21:36)
Nope.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:36 - 1:21:37)
sheet?

[Speaker 1] (1:21:37 - 1:21:38)
Nope, we don't

[Speaker 4] (1:21:38 - 1:21:38)
So

[Speaker 1] (1:21:38 - 1:21:38)
have anything like

[Speaker 4] (1:21:38 - 1:21:39)
we that, don't have anything like

[Speaker 1] (1:21:39 - 1:21:39)
but

[Speaker 4] (1:21:39 - 1:21:40)
that.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:40 - 1:21:42)
that's again, I'm just spitballing something Oh that

[Speaker 4] (1:21:42 - 1:21:42)
no.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:42 - 1:21:43)
might

[Speaker 1] (1:21:44 - 1:21:47)
allow us look for solar panels but also other stuff that kind of

[Speaker 4] (1:21:47 - 1:21:47)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:47 - 1:21:48)
collectively helps.

[Speaker 8] (1:21:48 - 1:21:51)
Is it set up for sea-level rising, you know?

[Speaker 1] (1:21:51 - 1:21:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:21:51 - 1:21:52)
Does it look

[Speaker 1] (1:21:52 - 1:21:52)
Any

[Speaker 8] (1:21:52 - 1:21:52)
like it?

[Speaker 1] (1:21:52 - 1:21:53)
anything um.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:53 - 1:21:57)
Yeah, I don't know, films on windows. I mean I I you know I don't know all the technology,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:57 - 1:21:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:21:57 - 1:22:01)
I know that that's something that's been uh three M has come up with some great

[Speaker 9] (1:22:01 - 1:22:02)
Well, there's

[Speaker 4] (1:22:02 - 1:22:03)
window films and so forth.

[Speaker 9] (1:22:03 - 1:22:04)
I I I mean there's

[Speaker 1] (1:22:04 - 1:22:05)
For heat reflection, right.

[Speaker 9] (1:22:05 - 1:22:08)
we could we could also really be looking at um

[Speaker 9] (1:22:08 - 1:22:28)
Everything from passive solar technology, like if if desi if if buildings are being designed by architects architects are trained to understand heat gain, they're trained to understand what is it to have screening on buildings. I mean for the most part to shade a window from the exterior is your absolute

[Speaker 10] (1:22:28 - 1:22:28)
Mm.

[Speaker 9] (1:22:28 - 1:22:30)
highest um ability

[Speaker 4] (1:22:30 - 1:22:30)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (1:22:30 - 1:22:31)
to control heat gain.

[Speaker 8] (1:22:31 - 1:22:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:22:31 - 1:22:35)
And right now it's almost like the heat is

[Speaker 9] (1:22:36 - 1:22:41)
attacking us more than the cold. So, you know, really

[Speaker 4] (1:22:41 - 1:22:41)
Ritual,

[Speaker 9] (1:22:41 - 1:22:41)
thinking about

[Speaker 4] (1:22:41 - 1:22:41)
January.

[Speaker 9] (1:22:41 - 1:22:43)
these technologies is yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:43 - 1:22:49)
But it's also one of those things our friends on the tree committee or something might find beneficial in if you know doing a big parking lot

[Speaker 4] (1:22:49 - 1:22:49)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:49 - 1:22:56)
covering with more trees means less heat island effect, means less heat reflecting onto your buildings. You know,

[Speaker 4] (1:22:56 - 1:22:56)
Yeah, it all goes

[Speaker 1] (1:22:56 - 1:22:56)
there's

[Speaker 4] (1:22:56 - 1:22:56)
together.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:56 - 1:22:57)
just

[Speaker 1] (1:22:59 - 1:22:59)
those

[Speaker 4] (1:22:59 - 1:22:59)
I think

[Speaker 1] (1:22:59 - 1:22:59)
are things

[Speaker 4] (1:22:59 - 1:23:00)
it's going

[Speaker 1] (1:23:00 - 1:23:00)
that

[Speaker 4] (1:23:00 - 1:23:00)
to be

[Speaker 1] (1:23:00 - 1:23:00)
it

[Speaker 4] (1:23:00 - 1:23:00)
pretty lively.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:00 - 1:23:02)
least to me sound appealing and incentivising

[Speaker 4] (1:23:02 - 1:23:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:03 - 1:23:07)
development, but also finding ways to at least advance towards some of the goals.

[Speaker 8] (1:23:07 - 1:23:08)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:08 - 1:23:08)
Um

[Speaker 4] (1:23:09 - 1:23:09)
That's what I'd

[Speaker 1] (1:23:09 - 1:23:09)
that's

[Speaker 4] (1:23:09 - 1:23:09)
like to

[Speaker 1] (1:23:09 - 1:23:09)
my opinion

[Speaker 4] (1:23:09 - 1:23:10)
do.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:10 - 1:23:10)
at least.

[Speaker 4] (1:23:10 - 1:23:11)
I think so too.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:13 - 1:23:15)
Bill, do you have any thoughts? I hate to put you on the spot.

[Speaker 9] (1:23:16 - 1:23:25)
That's fine. Um it's obviously a d a double-edged sword, right? So I agree that uh it's the right thing to do for a

[Speaker 9] (1:23:25 - 1:23:32)
development, but it's also going to be cost prohibitive and uh developers I don't think are going to be as

[Speaker 9] (1:23:33 - 1:23:35)
pleased or as willing

[Speaker 9] (1:23:36 - 1:23:52)
depending on the incentives. And I don't know if the incentives you're talking about are going to be like a blanket incentive incentive, or you could say okay you can have twenty five percent more uh less setback or twenty five percent automatically coin setbacks or things like that. That becomes a little bit sticky.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:52 - 1:23:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 9] (1:23:53 - 1:23:53)
So,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:53 - 1:23:53)
exactly.

[Speaker 9] (1:23:53 - 1:24:00)
first of all, if you have somebody who already has solar panels and didn't get that setback, you couldn't build a backlash there.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:00 - 1:24:01)
I don't forgive anyone who did,

[Speaker 9] (1:24:01 - 1:24:02)
But

[Speaker 4] (1:24:02 - 1:24:04)
but, but you never know.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:04 - 1:24:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:04 - 1:24:07)
But you can't say that I don't know for sure, so.

[Speaker 9] (1:24:07 - 1:24:12)
And uh one of the other grip points that I heard was that you were saying that

[Speaker 9] (1:24:13 - 1:24:21)
If we give them more parking or if we give them less setback, those are the things that every development gets complaints about and those complaints go to the S-Cub.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:21 - 1:24:22)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (1:24:22 - 1:24:28)
So we're already in a weird position where we have to kind of mediate those and it's gonna

[Speaker 9] (1:24:29 - 1:24:31)
it's gonna make those mediations more difficult

[Speaker 1] (1:24:33 - 1:24:33)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 9] (1:24:33 - 1:24:34)
for my perspective.

[Speaker 9] (1:24:35 - 1:24:41)
I think But I'm not I'm not for it, but I do like the idea though of if if we started talking about

[Speaker 9] (1:24:42 - 1:24:57)
You know, this is active solar. If we started talking about passive solar, if we'd started talking about canopy, if we started talking about those things that um when you had a project that was very difficult to get anywhere near these percentages, you then pulled over and and these other

[Speaker 1] (1:24:57 - 1:24:59)
There's the other stuff, right?

[Speaker 9] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
these

[Speaker 4] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
Yeah,

[Speaker 9] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
other

[Speaker 4] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
but

[Speaker 9] (1:24:59 - 1:25:00)
things came in

[Speaker 4] (1:25:00 - 1:25:09)
and we can start, you know, to keep track of might not be the ultimate, you know, goal here, but I would think any chipping away we could do to advance.

[Speaker 4] (1:25:10 - 1:25:12)
It is better than not, right?

[Speaker 4] (1:25:12 - 1:25:14)
So, um

[Speaker 4] (1:25:15 - 1:25:17)
Yeah, I I would agree.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:18 - 1:25:28)
Are there any municipalities that have grants for solar panel adoption at a local level rather than the state level?

[Speaker 1] (1:25:28 - 1:25:34)
And I'm have no financial knowledge if Swampscott is even able to consider something like that, but.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:36 - 1:25:37)
Just, again, spit-balling.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:38 - 1:25:43)
I kind of sometimes have ladder-mediation grants at the local level in addition to the state level. I'm

[Speaker 4] (1:25:43 - 1:25:43)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:43 - 1:25:45)
just wondering if there's any talents that might have that from a solar.

[Speaker 4] (1:25:47 - 1:25:48)
Interesting.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:48 - 1:25:54)
Or like waive a inspection fee or something for not that that's a big thing, but anything helps, I guess.

[Speaker 4] (1:25:54 - 1:25:56)
Everything, you know. See it in

[Speaker 7] (1:25:56 - 1:25:56)
No.

[Speaker 4] (1:25:56 - 1:25:59)
the sense of getting, you know, having some benefit, right.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:08 - 1:26:18)
The second thought would be that you have to be careful about the fifty percent as well uh because obviously fifty percent of the road, right, and you yeah, I think that's the uh

[Speaker 8] (1:26:19 - 1:26:22)
Yeah, have to be clearer on that what that means, right. If

[Speaker 9] (1:26:22 - 1:26:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:26:22 - 1:26:24)
it's a pitched roof certainly, yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:24 - 1:26:27)
Clear on that and I'm trying to think my own house, I get roofs in every direction because there's

[Speaker 8] (1:26:27 - 1:26:28)
Right,

[Speaker 9] (1:26:28 - 1:26:28)
a

[Speaker 8] (1:26:28 - 1:26:28)
yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:28 - 1:26:29)
berms and other stuff.

[Speaker 8] (1:26:29 - 1:26:33)
Right, well they they do say the facing, which way it faces.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:33 - 1:26:35)
Yeah, so it's it's fifty percent of only what's facing.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:37 - 1:26:46)
The solar ready zone area is fifty percent of the roof area that is either flat or oriented Hmm. between a hundred ten degrees and two hundred seventy degrees of true north.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:49 - 1:26:58)
But it does, it also, I mean, the percentage thing, like you were mentioning dormers, it's not like solar panels come in shapes.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:58 - 1:26:59)
They they're pretty,

[Speaker 1] (1:26:59 - 1:26:59)
They're square.

[Speaker 9] (1:26:59 - 1:27:05)
like at this point in time, there's there's there's a things and and I know that in the historic district,

[Speaker 9] (1:27:05 - 1:27:07)
we do look at solar panels.

[Speaker 9] (1:27:07 - 1:27:11)
And we've had some come in and it's like, Oh, well, there's an air vent here.

[Speaker 9] (1:27:11 - 1:27:13)
So this doesn't fit here. And,

[Speaker 9] (1:27:13 - 1:27:17)
you know, there there's the people that are laying out these things.

[Speaker 9] (1:27:18 - 1:27:31)
Um, it becomes complicated, but it could also really start driving the design, the aesthetic of the building if they're having to eliminate detailed in order to get that the percentages.

[Speaker 4] (1:27:31 - 1:27:31)
Mm.

[Speaker 9] (1:27:31 - 1:27:33)
So I do think

[Speaker 9] (1:27:34 - 1:27:41)
I do think figuring out I don't know if there's a magic number, you know.

[Speaker 8] (1:27:41 - 1:27:45)
Right, I would leave that as, you know, somewhat flexible, let's put it that

[Speaker 9] (1:27:45 - 1:27:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:27:45 - 1:27:45)
way.

[Speaker 4] (1:27:46 - 1:27:53)
And they mentioned in Watertown that they, the only issues they had was the 50 percent getting a little tight on some of the surfaces, yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:27:56 - 1:27:57)
Yeah because that that is

[Speaker 9] (1:27:58 - 1:28:02)
there c it could be very complex when you start thinking about um

[Speaker 9] (1:28:04 - 1:28:09)
non-residential buildings, you start thinking about buildings with restaurants, and you start thinking about like even the ventilation systems

[Speaker 1] (1:28:09 - 1:28:10)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:10 - 1:28:11)
and so forth, they really

[Speaker 1] (1:28:11 - 1:28:11)
And fire

[Speaker 9] (1:28:11 - 1:28:11)
start

[Speaker 1] (1:28:11 - 1:28:11)
suppression.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:11 - 1:28:12)
taking space

[Speaker 4] (1:28:12 - 1:28:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:12 - 1:28:13)
up, yeah, on

[Speaker 7] (1:28:13 - 1:28:13)
Yep.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:13 - 1:28:14)
on a rooftop.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:15 - 1:28:15)
Um,

[Speaker 4] (1:28:15 - 1:28:16)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:16 - 1:28:22)
so I'm I'm just wondering if there's language that might be, you know,

[Speaker 9] (1:28:22 - 1:28:27)
it's hard to it's hard to make something vague and rigorous.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:28 - 1:28:29)
Um,

[Speaker 8] (1:28:29 - 1:28:29)
I know.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:29 - 1:28:29)
I know.

[Speaker 9] (1:28:29 - 1:28:33)
vague a vague rigorous is a little bit hard.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:34 - 1:28:34)
So

[Speaker 8] (1:28:34 - 1:28:36)
There's there's arguments for both, you know.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:36 - 1:28:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:36 - 1:28:43)
so I think we've we're managing our agenda now it's been 90 minutes on this.

[Speaker 8] (1:28:43 - 1:28:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:28:45 - 1:28:57)
Do you have, you probably don't have clear guidance from us on what we think you should do, but do you have a how do you want to proceed for next steps here because I think some areising our conversation,

[Speaker 1] (1:28:58 - 1:29:01)
some of us are more open to this than others,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:01 - 1:29:13)
but I think all of us are open to finding next steps on how to advance goals together and getting the zoning bylaws and our operating procedure to be more aligned with some of your hopes and action items.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:14 - 1:29:19)
So how would you like to proceed here for next steps and what do you think the best takeaway is from this for us to continue working together?

[Speaker 2] (1:29:20 - 1:29:24)
Well, I th I I really appreciate the time, the ninety minutes you guys have spent.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:24 - 1:29:25)
Happy to.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:25 - 1:29:25)
It's been very

[Speaker 1] (1:29:25 - 1:29:25)
You

[Speaker 2] (1:29:25 - 1:29:25)
useful.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:25 - 1:29:27)
spent a lot more than that developing this. So we're happy to

[Speaker 2] (1:29:27 - 1:29:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:29:27 - 1:29:29)
either look at it.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:29 - 1:29:29)
Um

[Speaker 2] (1:29:30 - 1:29:35)
So I I think I'm going to go back to looking at Watertown, see what those eight or nine buildings are that they

[Speaker 4] (1:29:35 - 1:29:35)
Hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:35 - 1:29:42)
they have put it on aside from the parking garages, okay. So I'd be kind of curious how comparable they are to some of the buildings we may have, obviously

[Speaker 4] (1:29:42 - 1:29:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:42 - 1:29:47)
Watertown is different. It's uh a larger place, you know, with more commercial buildings, that sort of thing. So

[Speaker 3] (1:29:48 - 1:29:56)
Is this that is that the only regulation in sort of resiliency regulation that they have? Are there is there anything else in their zoning or?

[Speaker 2] (1:29:56 - 1:29:58)
I just, that's just the one I just

[Speaker 3] (1:29:58 - 1:29:58)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:29:58 - 1:29:58)
had.

[Speaker 3] (1:29:58 - 1:29:59)
okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:59 - 1:29:59)
Take Just a curious. nap.

[Speaker 2] (1:29:59 - 1:30:00)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:30:00 - 1:30:00)
Alright.

[Speaker 5] (1:30:00 - 1:30:08)
And I I think the re the list of the rest of the cities are cities that have probably have more open space

[Speaker 3] (1:30:08 - 1:30:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:30:08 - 1:30:09)
to be developed

[Speaker 3] (1:30:09 - 1:30:09)
Oh, especially

[Speaker 5] (1:30:09 - 1:30:09)
when than

[Speaker 3] (1:30:09 - 1:30:09)
they

[Speaker 5] (1:30:09 - 1:30:09)
when

[Speaker 3] (1:30:09 - 1:30:10)
like,

[Speaker 5] (1:30:10 - 1:30:10)
we did.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:10 - 1:30:10)
uh,

[Speaker 5] (1:30:10 - 1:30:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:10 - 1:30:10)
yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:10 - 1:30:11)
Right, right, right.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:12 - 1:30:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:30:12 - 1:30:13)
I think solar field

[Speaker 3] (1:30:13 - 1:30:14)
You're

[Speaker 2] (1:30:14 - 1:30:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:30:14 - 1:30:14)
probably

[Speaker 3] (1:30:14 - 1:30:14)
right. Exactly.

[Speaker 6] (1:30:14 - 1:30:17)
one of one of those touch on also.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:17 - 1:30:17)
Much more rural,

[Speaker 3] (1:30:18 - 1:30:19)
uh further out.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:19 - 1:30:23)
The the two things that I would say I think from my perspective that would be most helpful

[Speaker 1] (1:30:24 - 1:30:32)
Stepping out of this one if you would consider helping us working with us on some sort of rubric for our standard

[Speaker 2] (1:30:32 - 1:30:32)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (1:30:32 - 1:30:32)
site plan

[Speaker 2] (1:30:32 - 1:30:32)
but it's definitely

[Speaker 3] (1:30:32 - 1:30:32)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:30:32 - 1:30:33)
interesting.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:33 - 1:30:33)
that'd

[Speaker 1] (1:30:33 - 1:30:33)
And I and

[Speaker 3] (1:30:33 - 1:30:34)
be super helpful.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:34 - 1:30:44)
I think that's something that at least I'm open to talking about for anything subject to site plan single family multifamily residential as long as we leave it

[Speaker 1] (1:30:45 - 1:30:46)
You know

[Speaker 1] (1:30:47 - 1:30:58)
able to be worked with enough on both sides of things, and the numbers could be worked with from everybody, I think that's reasonable enough to require for site plan, um regardless of the intent, regardless of the size, new build,

[Speaker 1] (1:30:58 - 1:30:59)
addition, whatever.

[Speaker 5] (1:31:00 - 1:31:06)
Okay. Now to implement something like that, does that, is that by-law level?

[Speaker 1] (1:31:08 - 1:31:13)
I think the most productive way to do it would be voting as a planning board to adopt that.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:13 - 1:31:20)
we're the ones who vote on it, so we're the ones who can wave it. But it least gives us the ability to change it by a vote of the planning

[Speaker 6] (1:31:20 - 1:31:20)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:20 - 1:31:22)
board without having to go back to town meeting.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:22 - 1:31:25)
So site plan rules and regulations, the things that we can

[Speaker 5] (1:31:25 - 1:31:25)
The

[Speaker 3] (1:31:25 - 1:31:25)
vote

[Speaker 5] (1:31:25 - 1:31:26)
Rules and Regulations.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:26 - 1:31:26)
on here.

[Speaker 5] (1:31:26 - 1:31:27)
So that's where it would land is in the

[Speaker 3] (1:31:27 - 1:31:27)
Exactly.

[Speaker 5] (1:31:27 - 1:31:28)
Rules and Regulations. Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:28 - 1:31:29)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:29 - 1:31:30)
It's like design guidelines, we

[Speaker 3] (1:31:30 - 1:31:30)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:30 - 1:31:33)
can wave it, we can adopt it, standards you have to go to town meeting for.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:33 - 1:31:34)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:34 - 1:31:35)
Um

[Speaker 7] (1:31:35 - 1:31:36)
So

[Speaker 2] (1:31:36 - 1:31:36)
We

[Speaker 7] (1:31:36 - 1:31:36)
is that

[Speaker 2] (1:31:36 - 1:31:36)
could work.

[Speaker 7] (1:31:36 - 1:31:39)
what it would be called, like design guidelines that uh,

[Speaker 1] (1:31:39 - 1:31:39)
I would

[Speaker 7] (1:31:39 - 1:31:39)
similar

[Speaker 1] (1:31:39 - 1:31:39)
call it

[Speaker 7] (1:31:39 - 1:31:40)
to what we had for Valencia

[Speaker 2] (1:31:40 - 1:31:41)
sustainability,

[Speaker 7] (1:31:41 - 1:31:41)
Street?

[Speaker 2] (1:31:41 - 1:31:41)
or if you want to.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:41 - 1:31:42)
sustainability,

[Speaker 2] (1:31:42 - 1:31:42)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:31:42 - 1:31:43)
uh

[Speaker 2] (1:31:43 - 1:31:44)
yeah, something along those

[Speaker 1] (1:31:44 - 1:31:44)
guidelines,

[Speaker 2] (1:31:44 - 1:31:44)
lines.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:44 - 1:31:47)
and we could adopt that as part of our site plan rules and regulations.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:47 - 1:31:48)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:31:48 - 1:31:55)
Um, and we can work with you, you know, if you have some thoughts on a draft, we can have another meeting like this in a couple months and talk about it and

[Speaker 2] (1:31:56 - 1:31:58)
Might even work with the tree committee to see if we can come

[Speaker 1] (1:31:58 - 1:32:00)
I'm I'm sure they would love to see incentives

[Speaker 5] (1:32:00 - 1:32:00)
I I

[Speaker 1] (1:32:00 - 1:32:01)
on there to

[Speaker 5] (1:32:01 - 1:32:01)
I think

[Speaker 1] (1:32:01 - 1:32:01)
produce

[Speaker 5] (1:32:01 - 1:32:01)
there's

[Speaker 1] (1:32:01 - 1:32:01)
heat.

[Speaker 5] (1:32:01 - 1:32:08)
something really intriguing in that, um because from my work on the historic district commission,

[Speaker 5] (1:32:08 - 1:32:12)
the guidelines are enforceable.

[Speaker 5] (1:32:12 - 1:32:25)
You know, it's it's not uh it it is actually where we're given the ability to be flexible based on project type based on, you know, what what and

[Speaker 5] (1:32:26 - 1:32:38)
I would love for you all to think about that in in here is like would this be a more effective design guideline than it would be um a bylaw?

[Speaker 3] (1:32:38 - 1:32:38)
Mm.

[Speaker 5] (1:32:38 - 1:32:51)
I mean there's something nice to be able to say we have this bylaw, but if we have these guidelines that we can we can then flex with it. 'Cause the complexity of solar and the complexity of

[Speaker 5] (1:32:51 - 1:32:54)
building sites and so forth in our town is, you know,

[Speaker 7] (1:32:54 - 1:32:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:32:54 - 1:33:01)
I currently own a house that solar panels don't make sense on because of the tree coverage and,

[Speaker 2] (1:33:01 - 1:33:02)
Right, that's true.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:02 - 1:33:03)
you know, things like

[Speaker 3] (1:33:03 - 1:33:03)
Same

[Speaker 5] (1:33:03 - 1:33:03)
that.

[Speaker 3] (1:33:03 - 1:33:04)
with me.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:04 - 1:33:19)
So, you know, we certainly don't want to be in a situation where there's a, a, a wooded lot being looked at that we would have to be removing trees in order to meet the 50%. But all of a sudden if we're, if we have a rubric where we're trading, trading off.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:19 - 1:33:21)
of things. This could be um

[Speaker 7] (1:33:21 - 1:33:22)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:22 - 1:33:24)
this could be a really interesting way to go forward.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:25 - 1:33:25)
And

[Speaker 2] (1:33:25 - 1:33:26)
And also

[Speaker 5] (1:33:26 - 1:33:37)
it would be a good testing ground to see how that would work to then potentially move into by-law. Because we'd start having real-time

[Speaker 2] (1:33:37 - 1:33:38)
Absolutely. Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:33:38 - 1:33:45)
you know examples of like what is it like getting solar arrays onto a roof of a fifteen unit building.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:45 - 1:33:46)
You also could

[Speaker 1] (1:33:47 - 1:33:55)
Step back a little bit from the technology, we could put a bunch of different stuff in there. We could put geothermal on there, 'cause I know there's some homes and swamps that do have geothermal.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:55 - 1:33:55)
Do they?

[Speaker 6] (1:33:55 - 1:33:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:55 - 1:33:56)
Good. Great.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:56 - 1:33:57)
I know of a couple homes

[Speaker 2] (1:33:57 - 1:33:57)
Oh yeah

[Speaker 1] (1:33:57 - 1:33:57)
that uh

[Speaker 2] (1:33:57 - 1:33:58)
yeah yeah, I know one on

[Speaker 1] (1:33:58 - 1:33:58)
um

[Speaker 2] (1:33:58 - 1:33:59)
the one Atlantic.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:59 - 1:34:00)
one or two on the hill?

[Speaker 2] (1:34:00 - 1:34:01)
Atlantic, yeah. There's one on Atlantic.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:01 - 1:34:04)
One on Atlantic, one or two on the hill up um

[Speaker 5] (1:34:06 - 1:34:08)
I thought that required a full acre.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:08 - 1:34:16)
And I know I know at least one Mm-hmm. on the hill um I don't want to I hate mentioning people's addresses, so I don't want to do that, but um

[Speaker 1] (1:34:16 - 1:34:18)
And you know when I'm Atlantic,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:18 - 1:34:25)
but like, you know, there's a whole bunch of different things that we can use to figure out what works, what doesn't or what collection of them.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:25 - 1:34:28)
make a whole greater than the sum of its parts.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:29 - 1:34:29)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (1:34:30 - 1:34:30)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:30 - 1:34:32)
That would be my recommendation. I think that's something

[Speaker 3] (1:34:32 - 1:34:32)
I'd

[Speaker 1] (1:34:32 - 1:34:32)
to be helpful.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:32 - 1:34:33)
like that too.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:33 - 1:34:46)
It really gives me, I think it gives a lot more meat to it as well where we're, you know, it's really more, instead of kind of, you know, promoting one thing or, you know, kind of hammering out this is the bylaw and it's got to be this one thing.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:46 - 1:34:53)
I mean it really gives us a lot to work with and multiple ways to achieve the goals.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:53 - 1:34:54)
No, I like it too.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:54 - 1:34:55)
No, I like it.

[Speaker 5] (1:34:55 - 1:34:59)
I would also think if we're doing something like that building in also

[Speaker 5] (1:35:01 - 1:35:03)
we can't be the experts,

[Speaker 5] (1:35:04 - 1:35:14)
like if we can build in something that says and other technologies toward this goal,

[Speaker 3] (1:35:14 - 1:35:15)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:35:15 - 1:35:19)
to to really challenge developers and architects to be coming up with

[Speaker 5] (1:35:20 - 1:35:29)
a way in which they might be addressing something that that you know being overly prescriptive doesn't allow for that that growth and people

[Speaker 3] (1:35:29 - 1:35:29)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:35:29 - 1:35:39)
can come in with some you know there's things that weren't around fifteen years ago that are now very common um in building sites and you know

[Speaker 5] (1:35:40 - 1:35:51)
some of them are trends and some of them aren't. You know, I I always laugh about the fact that when I went to architecture school and was taught about passive solar technology, I'd grown up in a passive solar house.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:51 - 1:35:51)
Ooh.

[Speaker 7] (1:35:51 - 1:35:52)
Hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:35:52 - 1:35:54)
And they existed.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:54 - 1:35:54)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:35:54 - 1:36:03)
And and the whole technology, the whole science was exactly intact. And it was just that it wasn't used regularly.

[Speaker 5] (1:36:03 - 1:36:09)
Um but it was very efficient to the point that we had to crack windows in the winter some time because

[Speaker 5] (1:36:09 - 1:36:13)
as the heat pressure was so much by what was coming in the windows and

[Speaker 7] (1:36:13 - 1:36:13)
Wow.

[Speaker 5] (1:36:13 - 1:36:26)
heating the floor. So, you know, really having the ability for for to encourage um technological advance and design I think would be great to have in a in our guidelines.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:26 - 1:36:30)
Is there any other feedback from us you'd like? I want to get to the rest of our agenda and not

[Speaker 3] (1:36:30 - 1:36:30)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:30 - 1:36:32)
not be here too late tonight.

[Speaker 6] (1:36:32 - 1:36:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:32 - 1:36:34)
Um any other feedback from us that would be helpful?

[Speaker 2] (1:36:34 - 1:36:40)
Uh I think this is great, we can go away and uh work on this and uh really appreciate the time you guys took.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:40 - 1:36:40)
And we

[Speaker 1] (1:36:40 - 1:36:40)
Appreciate

[Speaker 3] (1:36:40 - 1:36:40)
appreciate

[Speaker 1] (1:36:40 - 1:36:41)
the work that

[Speaker 3] (1:36:41 - 1:36:41)
your you mark.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:41 - 1:36:41)
did.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:41 - 1:36:42)
Thank you very much.

[Speaker 6] (1:36:42 - 1:36:42)
And that's

[Speaker 1] (1:36:42 - 1:36:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:36:43 - 1:36:43)
great.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:43 - 1:36:51)
I'm going to change hats for a second. Harbor waterfront committee. There might be some solar opportunities there. There's a lot of people in harbor have solar on their boats. I think a lot more should.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:51 - 1:36:51)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:51 - 1:36:52)
Myself included,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:52 - 1:36:53)
so.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:53 - 1:36:55)
Think about that, just something to think about.

[Speaker 2] (1:36:55 - 1:36:56)
Oh, well thank you.

[Speaker 7] (1:36:56 - 1:36:56)
Great.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:56 - 1:36:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:56 - 1:36:56)
Thanks.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:57 - 1:36:58)
Thank you all.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:58 - 1:36:58)
About um

[Speaker 5] (1:36:58 - 1:36:59)
Thank you so much.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:00 - 1:37:00)
Oh my

[Speaker 3] (1:37:01 - 1:37:02)
Oh my.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:03 - 1:37:05)
I electrified

[Speaker 3] (1:37:07 - 1:37:09)
an electric motor.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:09 - 1:37:09)
An electric motor?

[Speaker 3] (1:37:09 - 1:37:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:10 - 1:37:10)
I

[Speaker 1] (1:37:11 - 1:37:11)
Some it's been

[Speaker 3] (1:37:11 - 1:37:12)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:12 - 1:37:20)
on my Christmas list for three years. I don't know why my wife hasn't gone in for me yet, but so it's a plug if she's watching. It's so they're so expensive. They're

[Speaker 3] (1:37:20 - 1:37:20)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:20 - 1:37:22)
but they're really nice and they're really quiet

[Speaker 3] (1:37:22 - 1:37:22)
yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:37:23 - 1:37:23)
okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:23 - 1:37:24)
Um okay, that

[Speaker 5] (1:37:24 - 1:37:24)
Is

[Speaker 1] (1:37:24 - 1:37:24)
was

[Speaker 5] (1:37:24 - 1:37:26)
that like electric trolling or...

[Speaker 1] (1:37:26 - 1:37:31)
Yeah, they have up to well mercury just came out with the 30 horsepower all electric outboard

[Speaker 5] (1:37:31 - 1:37:31)
Wow.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:31 - 1:37:36)
Um but yeah, they have up to ten pound torquitos they're called they're like

[Speaker 1] (1:37:37 - 1:37:42)
Um, ten horsepower. They're like twenty five pounds, they're great. So they don't last very long. But

[Speaker 5] (1:37:42 - 1:37:43)
It's hard to find the charging station.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:44 - 1:37:46)
Yeah. Yeah. Um

[Speaker 2] (1:37:47 - 1:37:48)
One big lightning.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:48 - 1:37:50)
Krista. Next part of the agenda.

[Speaker 6] (1:37:50 - 1:38:01)
All right, moving on. I know we don't have much time, but um we put together just a few topics, a few more topics for discussion um.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:03 - 1:38:27)
So expanded multi-family use zoning, that's potential conversion of single family into multi-family, um but keeping the outside of the home looking like single family. Um cottage cluster, um the sign by-law I know we touched on that a little bit last month as well as um short-term rentals. So this is going to be more of a discussion.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:28 - 1:38:33)
of priorities and how to move forward than it is a presentation,

[Speaker 6] (1:38:33 - 1:38:54)
but we just put this together by topic for you guys so we can talk about it one by one and then maybe hopefully by the end of this meeting have some priorities for what to focus on next year and if any of these you know what might be a potential.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:55 - 1:38:56)
update for a town meeting.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:57 - 1:38:57)
Perfect.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:57 - 1:38:57)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:57 - 1:38:58)
Thank you.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:58 - 1:38:59)
Figuring out what to prioritise

[Speaker 1] (1:38:59 - 1:38:59)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (1:38:59 - 1:39:01)
um moving into next year.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:03 - 1:39:04)
So expanded multi-oh.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:04 - 1:39:04)
Oh.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:05 - 1:39:05)
Goodness.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:07 - 1:39:14)
Expanded multi-family use zoning. We talked about this a couple meetings ago and on and off, but my at least thought on this was

[Speaker 1] (1:39:15 - 1:39:21)
extending the use table in some way, shape or form for where some of this ex uh

[Speaker 1] (1:39:22 - 1:39:27)
multi-family housing could be converted from single family without having the

[Speaker 1] (1:39:28 - 1:39:31)
Lego eight family apartment building go up next to you,

[Speaker 2] (1:39:31 - 1:39:31)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:31 - 1:39:40)
um ways in order to avoid that, but still offer equitable multifamily housing throughout other areas of town where they may not be currently allowed.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:40 - 1:39:52)
Um yes, and this is also the um orange handouts are about single family home conversion. Um right. So there's a lot of good info in there as well with some diagrams.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:52 - 1:39:54)
Yes, thank you very much for that.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:00 - 1:40:03)
So just reconfiring a single family,

[Speaker 4] (1:40:03 - 1:40:05)
be it two families or

[Speaker 2] (1:40:05 - 1:40:05)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:05 - 1:40:05)
uh

[Speaker 1] (1:40:06 - 1:40:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:07 - 1:40:08)
Ah, just a single.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:08 - 1:40:09)
Totally

[Speaker 1] (1:40:09 - 1:40:09)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:40:09 - 1:40:09)
different through building.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:09 - 1:40:21)
limited changes to the exterior except for fire code and parking I guess, but there's a few examples in town I know of that already have this to some extent.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:21 - 1:40:21)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:22 - 1:40:25)
two thirteen I wanna say two eleven Pumphrey Street.

[Speaker 4] (1:40:26 - 1:40:26)
I didn't

[Speaker 2] (1:40:26 - 1:40:28)
But but that was the new that was new construction, right?

[Speaker 1] (1:40:28 - 1:40:32)
No, it was the old an old estate and carriage house that's now a seven unit

[Speaker 2] (1:40:33 - 1:40:35)
Oh oh, you talking about the castle, Lara.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:35 - 1:40:36)
On

[Speaker 2] (1:40:36 - 1:40:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:36 - 1:40:36)
the rock, on

[Speaker 2] (1:40:36 - 1:40:36)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:36 - 1:40:36)
the water

[Speaker 2] (1:40:36 - 1:40:36)
that's

[Speaker 1] (1:40:36 - 1:40:36)
there.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:36 - 1:40:38)
where um Sindrick.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:38 - 1:40:39)
Yes, that yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:39 - 1:40:41)
Shouldn't be shouting it out. Alright,

[Speaker 2] (1:40:41 - 1:40:42)
um,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:42 - 1:40:43)
But yeah yes, there's that there's

[Speaker 2] (1:40:43 - 1:40:45)
Yes, I know that's a really good example.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:46 - 1:40:47)
Yeah, so

[Speaker 3] (1:40:47 - 1:40:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:47 - 1:40:48)
old estate

[Speaker 2] (1:40:48 - 1:40:49)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:49 - 1:40:52)
With the carriage house that's now two units in the carriage house

[Speaker 2] (1:40:52 - 1:40:52)
beautiful,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:52 - 1:40:52)
and five

[Speaker 2] (1:40:52 - 1:40:53)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:53 - 1:40:56)
townhouses or something in the, what was the estate,

[Speaker 2] (1:40:56 - 1:40:57)
But it kept,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:57 - 1:40:57)
looks

[Speaker 2] (1:40:57 - 1:40:57)
you like know,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:57 - 1:40:57)
an estate.

[Speaker 2] (1:40:57 - 1:40:59)
keeping the intact,

[Speaker 2] (1:40:59 - 1:41:00)
the original structure.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:01 - 1:41:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:41:01 - 1:41:01)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:03 - 1:41:03)
And yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:41:04 - 1:41:05)
that's a beautiful property.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:06 - 1:41:10)
Typically what happens now is a lot of buildings like that, except that one was.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:11 - 1:41:14)
That was so beautiful, but a lot of them get torn down, along Humphrey

[Speaker 1] (1:41:14 - 1:41:14)
Unfortunately.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:14 - 1:41:18)
Street, and just built uh you know something bigger gets built. But um

[Speaker 1] (1:41:18 - 1:41:26)
But there's a handful of homes like that. I can think of one that was on the market for a s extended period of time last year. The older estate-like houses,

[Speaker 2] (1:41:26 - 1:41:27)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:41:27 - 1:41:35)
like this one was on the corner of Ocean Street and something. Um but there's a handful of them that are still out there. And

[Speaker 2] (1:41:35 - 1:41:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:41:35 - 1:41:42)
Maybe maybe none of them will work for this, but maybe some of them do. I don't I don't know if um

[Speaker 1] (1:41:43 - 1:41:44)
I

[Speaker 2] (1:41:44 - 1:41:44)
So

[Speaker 1] (1:41:44 - 1:41:44)
just

[Speaker 2] (1:41:44 - 1:41:53)
what would you wanna do, you instead of you could say in all zoning districts by special permit type of thing, except for all residential districts I suppose, um

[Speaker 1] (1:41:53 - 1:41:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:53 - 1:42:00)
um is anyth you know as opposed to changing the

[Speaker 2] (1:42:00 - 1:42:08)
The zoning, another words, so if A_ one and A_ two would stay A_ one and A_ two, which is essentially single family, A_ three, it's already allowed by right.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:08 - 1:42:08)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:08 - 1:42:10)
And A_ four obviously,

[Speaker 2] (1:42:10 - 1:42:13)
it's already allowed by right. Um

[Speaker 4] (1:42:13 - 1:42:14)
Do we have a

[Speaker 1] (1:42:15 - 1:42:17)
This is a terrible question to ask right on the spot, but

[Speaker 2] (1:42:17 - 1:42:17)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:17 - 1:42:20)
is there any way to put up the map of where those The other

[Speaker 2] (1:42:20 - 1:42:20)
GIS,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:20 - 1:42:20)
areas are?

[Speaker 2] (1:42:20 - 1:42:21)
sure.

[Speaker 5] (1:42:21 - 1:42:21)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:21 - 1:42:24)
Yeah, I mean it could just pull up the GIS and um

[Speaker 1] (1:42:24 - 1:42:28)
Well the the zoning map is on our website. So that's an easy way to just pull it up.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:28 - 1:42:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:42:28 - 1:42:34)
Yeah, I can also pull up using two different computers.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:35 - 1:42:35)
And

[Speaker 2] (1:42:35 - 1:42:35)
Actually,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:35 - 1:42:35)
I did not

[Speaker 2] (1:42:35 - 1:42:35)
I'm

[Speaker 1] (1:42:35 - 1:42:36)
have

[Speaker 2] (1:42:36 - 1:42:36)
going to do it on.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:36 - 1:42:46)
I did not have Chris that I I was remiss in giving Chris a chance to introduce herself to the board at the last meeting normally. So but I will brag for Chris that she's a G_I_S_ expert

[Speaker 3] (1:42:46 - 1:42:46)
Wow.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:46 - 1:42:48)
and we're very lucky to have her skills

[Speaker 2] (1:42:48 - 1:42:51)
So excited about that. You have no idea.

[Speaker 4] (1:42:51 - 1:42:51)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:51 - 1:42:53)
So we are very eagerly awaiting Chris

[Speaker 2] (1:42:53 - 1:42:53)
It's

[Speaker 1] (1:42:53 - 1:42:54)
to get

[Speaker 2] (1:42:54 - 1:42:54)
on my,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:54 - 1:42:54)
the G_I_S_

[Speaker 2] (1:42:54 - 1:42:54)
it's been on

[Speaker 1] (1:42:54 - 1:42:55)
stuff.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:55 - 1:42:57)
my wish list for about 10 or 15 years.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:58 - 1:42:59)
It's like,

[Speaker 3] (1:42:59 - 1:43:00)
I'm also eagerly awaiting

[Speaker 1] (1:43:00 - 1:43:00)
yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:00 - 1:43:00)
Oh,

[Speaker 3] (1:43:00 - 1:43:01)
to get that.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:01 - 1:43:01)
great.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:01 - 1:43:02)
Right. Um,

[Speaker 2] (1:43:02 - 1:43:02)
No.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:02 - 1:43:03)
maybe, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:03 - 1:43:03)
So a lot

[Speaker 2] (1:43:03 - 1:43:03)
It's

[Speaker 1] (1:43:03 - 1:43:04)
of the

[Speaker 3] (1:43:04 - 1:43:04)
You

[Speaker 2] (1:43:04 - 1:43:04)
a program

[Speaker 1] (1:43:04 - 1:43:04)
lot

[Speaker 2] (1:43:04 - 1:43:05)
get a big project there, so.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:05 - 1:43:12)
of the mapping and GIS questions I've already asked Kristen, she's working through the ability to get that work through town hall.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:12 - 1:43:12)
So it'll

[Speaker 2] (1:43:12 - 1:43:13)
It's fantastic.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:13 - 1:43:14)
be a very

[Speaker 3] (1:43:14 - 1:43:16)
Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity,

[Speaker 3] (1:43:16 - 1:43:22)
so um, and it, you know, is a tru really a great tool for supporting

[Speaker 2] (1:43:22 - 1:43:22)
I

[Speaker 3] (1:43:22 - 1:43:22)
all

[Speaker 2] (1:43:22 - 1:43:23)
love it.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:23 - 1:43:23)
sort

[Speaker 2] (1:43:23 - 1:43:28)
I've used it so much, just, you know, my rudimentary way over the years, and it's been

[Speaker 2] (1:43:29 - 1:43:29)
So useful.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:46 - 1:43:51)
The orange document here was an MAPC study that they did for the South Shore Planning

[Speaker 2] (1:43:51 - 1:43:51)
Ah.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:51 - 1:43:53)
Association or South Shore something.

[Speaker 2] (1:43:54 - 1:43:55)
Oh, it's

[Speaker 1] (1:43:55 - 1:43:55)
a

[Speaker 2] (1:43:55 - 1:43:55)
big.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:55 - 1:44:01)
bunch of South Shore communities. So these both of these document documents we have were pulled from that

[Speaker 2] (1:44:01 - 1:44:01)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:44:01 - 1:44:11)
study they did, but the pictures um throughout I think are illustrative of different examples.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:13 - 1:44:19)
I mean, Svanska is very um, you have the old the older parts of town, I mean there it's

[Speaker 2] (1:44:20 - 1:44:22)
two families, three families, they're so common.

[Speaker 1] (1:44:22 - 1:44:22)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:22 - 1:44:29)
Um and I don't think it's, uh I don't think it's odd or people aren't going like oh my God, like

[Speaker 4] (1:44:29 - 1:44:30)
What is P_V_D_ stand for?

[Speaker 1] (1:44:31 - 1:44:31)
Planned development district.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:31 - 1:44:33)
Planned development, there are a few of them.

[Speaker 4] (1:44:34 - 1:44:39)
So I guess I guess the question that I have on this is if this is already by right

[Speaker 2] (1:44:40 - 1:44:42)
And the A_ three and A_ four,

[Speaker 4] (1:44:42 - 1:44:42)
I had

[Speaker 2] (1:44:42 - 1:44:43)
which is I most

[Speaker 4] (1:44:43 - 1:44:43)
thought yeah

[Speaker 2] (1:44:43 - 1:44:44)
of the single

[Speaker 4] (1:44:44 - 1:44:45)
A_ three

[Speaker 2] (1:44:45 - 1:44:45)
family

[Speaker 4] (1:44:45 - 1:44:45)
and A_ four.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:45 - 1:44:45)
zone.

[Speaker 4] (1:44:48 - 1:44:52)
Why would we not just rezone the A_ one district into an A_ A_ three?

[Speaker 2] (1:44:53 - 1:44:58)
Because then you're eliminating single family zoning, which is not gonna be popular.

[Speaker 1] (1:44:59 - 1:45:00)
And I'm not

[Speaker 4] (1:45:01 - 1:45:02)
I think I

[Speaker 2] (1:45:02 - 1:45:07)
I mean, regardless of how, you know, progressive it is, it's not gonna be popular.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:07 - 1:45:07)
I

[Speaker 4] (1:45:07 - 1:45:08)
But can in my

[Speaker 1] (1:45:08 - 1:45:08)
catch understanding a cat.

[Speaker 4] (1:45:08 - 1:45:13)
though that this whole like this enormous block here

[Speaker 4] (1:45:13 - 1:45:14)
Here is all in three.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:15 - 1:45:15)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:15 - 1:45:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:16 - 1:45:19)
And A_ two is A_ four is pretty

[Speaker 1] (1:45:19 - 1:45:19)
I

[Speaker 2] (1:45:19 - 1:45:19)
big too.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:19 - 1:45:21)
think, Krista, could you just pull up

[Speaker 3] (1:45:21 - 1:45:22)
The this zoning out of Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:22 - 1:45:22)
map

[Speaker 2] (1:45:22 - 1:45:22)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:45:22 - 1:45:22)
on

[Speaker 4] (1:45:22 - 1:45:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:23 - 1:45:23)
the that's Swampscott town

[Speaker 2] (1:45:23 - 1:45:23)
that's

[Speaker 1] (1:45:23 - 1:45:23)
website?

[Speaker 2] (1:45:23 - 1:45:23)
good. It'd

[Speaker 1] (1:45:23 - 1:45:24)
It'll be

[Speaker 2] (1:45:24 - 1:45:24)
be a better.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:24 - 1:45:25)
little easier

[Speaker 4] (1:45:25 - 1:45:26)
Because to I

[Speaker 1] (1:45:26 - 1:45:26)
see.

[Speaker 4] (1:45:26 - 1:45:27)
I Yeah. I think that

[Speaker 1] (1:45:29 - 1:45:32)
'cause I mean, in lo you'll see it in a minute, but in layman's terms,

[Speaker 1] (1:45:34 - 1:45:36)
Puritan and Humphrey, once you get to the split, everything

[Speaker 2] (1:45:37 - 1:45:37)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:38 - 1:45:39)
north and east.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:39 - 1:45:39)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:40 - 1:45:40)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:45:40 - 1:45:40)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:40 - 1:45:42)
everything to the right of that and to the north of that is

[Speaker 1] (1:45:43 - 1:45:45)
Not allowed, anything other than single family.

[Speaker 3] (1:45:45 - 1:45:45)
Sorry

[Speaker 1] (1:45:45 - 1:45:45)
Everything

[Speaker 3] (1:45:45 - 1:45:46)
everyone, this is

[Speaker 1] (1:45:46 - 1:45:48)
on the other side of town is.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:48 - 1:46:05)
Um and traditionally when we talk about, you know, reusing um, you know these words, that's where all the big estates were. And when they were all just demolished and, you know, broken down by nineteen sixty, I think, you know, was the, really the end of them. I mean we just, you know, it was all subdivisions. So that's why you get, you

[Speaker 1] (1:46:05 - 1:46:05)
No TGIS.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:05 - 1:46:05)
know

[Speaker 3] (1:46:06 - 1:46:07)
2018,

[Speaker 3] (1:46:07 - 1:46:07)
is that

[Speaker 2] (1:46:08 - 1:46:09)
You will not

[Speaker 1] (1:46:09 - 1:46:12)
Uh the yeah, I don't think the zoning maps have changed since then.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:13 - 1:46:18)
Um not in a couple of years. Uh there's now there's one in there from twenty twenty four, I just looked at it.

[Speaker 4] (1:46:18 - 1:46:21)
That we'd use a couple years ago added.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:21 - 1:46:26)
Yeah, I just uh I don't know what year you said? What was the year?

[Speaker 3] (1:46:26 - 1:46:26)
It was 2018.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:26 - 1:46:30)
No, you said twenty twenty four. I think there should be right uh

[Speaker 1] (1:46:30 - 1:46:31)
You can google

[Speaker 2] (1:46:31 - 1:46:31)
resale

[Speaker 1] (1:46:31 - 1:46:32)
it, I

[Speaker 2] (1:46:32 - 1:46:32)
go ahead a

[Speaker 1] (1:46:32 - 1:46:32)
found it on

[Speaker 2] (1:46:32 - 1:46:32)
minute.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:32 - 1:46:34)
Google just by googling Swampscott zoning map.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:34 - 1:46:35)
If I thought it was

[Speaker 1] (1:46:35 - 1:46:36)
And it's one of the first two responses.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:46 - 1:46:49)
Yeah, let's see. Se it's coming

[Speaker 1] (1:46:49 - 1:46:49)
That's

[Speaker 2] (1:46:49 - 1:46:49)
up

[Speaker 1] (1:46:49 - 1:46:49)
a twenty

[Speaker 2] (1:46:49 - 1:46:49)
in twenty

[Speaker 1] (1:46:49 - 1:46:50)
eighteen.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:50 - 1:46:51)
eighteen. Oh, that's weird.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:52 - 1:46:53)
But, I mean it

[Speaker 2] (1:46:53 - 1:46:57)
Well, I don't know if it's gonna have a did we do a four then?

[Speaker 4] (1:46:57 - 1:46:58)
We didn't do B_ four.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:59 - 1:47:02)
Did it or did we do B_ four? Well, it doesn't matter about the business districts.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:03 - 1:47:04)
Sorry, I'm going to

[Speaker 4] (1:47:04 - 1:47:06)
Did we change something around?

[Speaker 4] (1:47:09 - 1:47:13)
No, there was it was proposed to change around the train station, but I don't think we actually did it.

[Speaker 4] (1:47:13 - 1:47:15)
there was one lot that we changed.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:15 - 1:47:18)
That was the forty R_ they were trying to do over by the train station?

[Speaker 4] (1:47:18 - 1:47:19)
Oh, there was this one lot that was

[Speaker 4] (1:47:20 - 1:47:21)
mistakenly

[Speaker 1] (1:47:21 - 1:47:21)
Oh,

[Speaker 4] (1:47:21 - 1:47:22)
put in the wrong place,

[Speaker 1] (1:47:22 - 1:47:22)
right.

[Speaker 4] (1:47:22 - 1:47:22)
yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:22 - 1:47:22)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:23 - 1:47:24)
We did that like

[Speaker 4] (1:47:24 - 1:47:24)
It was just

[Speaker 1] (1:47:24 - 1:47:25)
a couple

[Speaker 4] (1:47:25 - 1:47:25)
just

[Speaker 1] (1:47:25 - 1:47:25)
of years ago, right?

[Speaker 4] (1:47:25 - 1:47:26)
one property, one

[Speaker 1] (1:47:26 - 1:47:28)
We did that last year, two years ago, right?

[Speaker 4] (1:47:28 - 1:47:29)
It was a couple year or two ago, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:29 - 1:47:35)
Yeah. Any other changes since then? To the m nothing since I've been on the board other than that one, to the map.

[Speaker 4] (1:47:36 - 1:47:37)
You may have got here before.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:37 - 1:47:38)
I think we did that.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:38 - 1:47:38)
It was before then.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:38 - 1:47:39)
Like of other stuff.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:39 - 1:47:40)
I was twenty twenty one.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:42 - 1:48:08)
That's another thing I'd love to do, Christa, and this is, you know, I don't even know how, it'd be a it'd be a big project for you we'd probably figure it out though, but you know when you look at Marblehead's bylaw for example, the one thing I love is when I go through it, just through re referral, and I'm not sure if they did this in Salem, every you know it was like whatever you're looking at, it'll say amended town meeting this year amended town meeting added, you know every edition

[Speaker 2] (1:48:09 - 1:48:14)
It's just noted right there what year it was adopted, which is so helpful.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:15 - 1:48:17)
Chair, for your context, this is

[Speaker 1] (1:48:17 - 1:48:22)
probably identical, if not identical, it's ninety nine percent accurate.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:22 - 1:48:23)
So the weight is a

[Speaker 3] (1:48:25 - 1:48:25)
Sorry,

[Speaker 4] (1:48:25 - 1:48:25)
eight two.

[Speaker 3] (1:48:25 - 1:48:26)
and this?

[Speaker 4] (1:48:27 - 1:48:27)
What?

[Speaker 3] (1:48:27 - 1:48:28)
You do?

[Speaker 4] (1:48:29 - 1:48:30)
Why is it eight two right here?

[Speaker 2] (1:48:31 - 1:48:33)
So it cannot go to that. I just sent you his name.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:33 - 1:48:34)
Eight two and eight three.

[Speaker 2] (1:48:34 - 1:48:35)
Um

[Speaker 4] (1:48:35 - 1:48:39)
'Cause there's an H_ three down there that's that's gold.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:40 - 1:48:42)
Is it not gold? Oh, just that little bit of gold That

[Speaker 3] (1:48:42 - 1:48:42)
Yes,

[Speaker 4] (1:48:42 - 1:48:42)
is there that is

[Speaker 3] (1:48:42 - 1:48:42)
there

[Speaker 4] (1:48:42 - 1:48:43)
there and there.

[Speaker 3] (1:48:43 - 1:48:43)
there.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:43 - 1:48:49)
And now this one. 'Cause this one is sort of in it's it's contradicting Mm yeah, that gold is is confusing all of

[Speaker 1] (1:48:50 - 1:48:51)
No, it's not.

[Speaker 4] (1:48:51 - 1:48:52)
I'm I'm looking down here in zoning, but

[Speaker 1] (1:48:52 - 1:48:57)
A_ three is just next to the um h hotel tourism overlay district.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:59 - 1:49:00)
It's next to the fish house.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:00 - 1:49:01)
Yeah, that's supposed to be red.

[Speaker 3] (1:49:01 - 1:49:05)
Whatever map this is, I'm gonna have it taken off the internet.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:05 - 1:49:06)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:06 - 1:49:06)
I couldn't

[Speaker 3] (1:49:06 - 1:49:06)
And

[Speaker 4] (1:49:06 - 1:49:07)
say it.

[Speaker 3] (1:49:07 - 1:49:09)
s make sure that it doesn't, you know, so you can't google it.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:09 - 1:49:09)
it's google not good,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:09 - 1:49:09)
it.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:09 - 1:49:11)
agreed.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:13 - 1:49:16)
Because I don't know why it keeps swapping up, but we can

[Speaker 1] (1:49:17 - 1:49:23)
Look here and see this A_ three is, I think, attached to this gold zoning. Um

[Speaker 5] (1:49:23 - 1:49:25)
So like the whole Olmstead district is a two.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:26 - 1:49:26)
Yep, this

[Speaker 5] (1:49:26 - 1:49:27)
So

[Speaker 1] (1:49:27 - 1:49:27)
this is all

[Speaker 5] (1:49:27 - 1:49:28)
multifamily and

[Speaker 4] (1:49:28 - 1:49:28)
It's

[Speaker 5] (1:49:28 - 1:49:28)
all

[Speaker 4] (1:49:28 - 1:49:29)
not it's

[Speaker 6] (1:49:29 - 1:49:29)
Multifamily

[Speaker 4] (1:49:29 - 1:49:29)
not a

[Speaker 6] (1:49:29 - 1:49:30)
is not allowed.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:30 - 1:49:30)
it's not allowed.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:30 - 1:49:35)
okay, okay. So it isn't, the it the A_ two and the A_ one

[Speaker 4] (1:49:35 - 1:49:35)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:35 - 1:49:38)
is the majority of the residential neighbourhood.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:38 - 1:49:38)
Right. It's

[Speaker 5] (1:49:38 - 1:49:38)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:38 - 1:49:42)
just the set-backs that change. They are lot size and set-backs, frontage.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:43 - 1:49:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:49:45 - 1:49:48)
Um, that answers my question.

[Speaker 7] (1:49:48 - 1:49:49)
So multifamily dwelling.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:49 - 1:49:50)
Door. I found it. Here.

[Speaker 7] (1:49:50 - 1:49:51)
Oh, containing not more than.

[Speaker 4] (1:49:52 - 1:49:55)
On the okay, let me just see.

[Speaker 7] (1:49:58 - 1:50:02)
So three family is allowed in A3 and A4 by special permit.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:03 - 1:50:04)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (1:50:04 - 1:50:04)
Gate four.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:05 - 1:50:06)
Right. A3 and A4,

[Speaker 4] (1:50:07 - 1:50:07)
correct.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:10 - 1:50:10)
Um

[Speaker 5] (1:50:10 - 1:50:10)
No,

[Speaker 4] (1:50:10 - 1:50:19)
no, both up to three in A3 and then over three to whatever eight I think it is by um yeah, in

[Speaker 5] (1:50:19 - 1:50:19)
by special.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:19 - 1:50:21)
A4 or by special permit, right.

[Speaker 7] (1:50:21 - 1:50:24)
Not only allowed

[Speaker 7] (1:50:27 - 1:50:30)
an A4 that way, A3 is no.

[Speaker 5] (1:50:38 - 1:50:39)
Okay, this I'm sorry.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:39 - 1:50:41)
was the map I I had, so I I just think I

[Speaker 5] (1:50:41 - 1:50:42)
I threw this,

[Speaker 4] (1:50:42 - 1:50:42)
threw it from

[Speaker 5] (1:50:42 - 1:50:43)
I asked this one

[Speaker 7] (1:50:43 - 1:50:43)
Oh,

[Speaker 5] (1:50:43 - 1:50:43)
question

[Speaker 7] (1:50:43 - 1:50:43)
that's the same

[Speaker 5] (1:50:43 - 1:50:44)
and I one, didn't

[Speaker 7] (1:50:44 - 1:50:44)
she has actually.

[Speaker 5] (1:50:44 - 1:50:44)
we

[Speaker 1] (1:50:44 - 1:50:45)
No yeah,

[Speaker 5] (1:50:45 - 1:50:45)
drew this

[Speaker 1] (1:50:45 - 1:50:45)
I through do.

[Speaker 5] (1:50:45 - 1:50:46)
the T_I_S_

[Speaker 4] (1:50:46 - 1:50:46)
I I

[Speaker 4] (1:50:46 - 1:50:46)
I I

[Speaker 1] (1:50:46 - 1:50:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:46 - 1:50:46)
I I

[Speaker 1] (1:50:46 - 1:50:47)
Um

[Speaker 4] (1:50:47 - 1:50:47)
I I I

[Speaker 4] (1:50:47 - 1:50:48)
yep, good.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:51 - 1:50:51)
Much better.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:53 - 1:50:56)
Alright, and then we get a huge A_ two where of course

[Speaker 5] (1:50:57 - 1:50:57)
Nothing.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:57 - 1:51:01)
a junior high is and Tabasco obviously.

[Speaker 7] (1:51:04 - 1:51:08)
So an A_ two is only for residential uses, it's single family only.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:09 - 1:51:09)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (1:51:10 - 1:51:11)
A_ two, yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:12 - 1:51:15)
So what is the difference between A_ one and A_ two that's just setbacks

[Speaker 4] (1:51:15 - 1:51:15)
Setbacks,

[Speaker 5] (1:51:15 - 1:51:15)
and lot size?

[Speaker 4] (1:51:15 - 1:51:17)
um frontage, right.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:18 - 1:51:18)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:18 - 1:51:19)
Lot size.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:20 - 1:51:24)
And then so if we were to

[Speaker 5] (1:51:30 - 1:51:34)
Single family home conversion. How does, where does this land? Does this land in

[Speaker 4] (1:51:34 - 1:51:45)
I think it lands as a special, in all, you know, I think it can land in, first of all it's by right already in, you know, but I think it's kind of something

[Speaker 5] (1:51:45 - 1:51:45)
It's

[Speaker 4] (1:51:45 - 1:51:45)
that

[Speaker 5] (1:51:45 - 1:51:46)
by right in A3,

[Speaker 4] (1:51:46 - 1:51:46)
A3

[Speaker 5] (1:51:46 - 1:51:47)
A4,

[Speaker 4] (1:51:47 - 1:51:47)
and A4.

[Speaker 5] (1:51:47 - 1:51:49)
but not in A1 or A2.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:49 - 1:51:54)
Right, but we might want to just, you know, we just put it in there as something that's, you

[Speaker 7] (1:51:54 - 1:51:58)
Well, it's by right up to two family in A3 and A4.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:58 - 1:51:58)
exactly.

[Speaker 4] (1:51:59 - 1:51:59)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:51:59 - 1:52:02)
More than two families, special permit, and A_ four.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:02 - 1:52:02)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:04 - 1:52:04)
And I in

[Speaker 4] (1:52:04 - 1:52:05)
don't think

[Speaker 7] (1:52:05 - 1:52:05)
minimal

[Speaker 4] (1:52:05 - 1:52:05)
it's a lot.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:05 - 1:52:06)
cases A_ three.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:06 - 1:52:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:06 - 1:52:07)
Three

[Speaker 5] (1:52:07 - 1:52:07)
And

[Speaker 7] (1:52:07 - 1:52:07)
units.

[Speaker 5] (1:52:07 - 1:52:08)
then this this

[Speaker 4] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
Oh,

[Speaker 5] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
one

[Speaker 4] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
I'm sorry,

[Speaker 5] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
would

[Speaker 4] (1:52:08 - 1:52:08)
I think,

[Speaker 5] (1:52:08 - 1:52:09)
be

[Speaker 4] (1:52:09 - 1:52:09)
right?

[Speaker 5] (1:52:09 - 1:52:11)
single family to two

[Speaker 4] (1:52:11 - 1:52:12)
Two.

[Speaker 5] (1:52:12 - 1:52:12)
family

[Speaker 4] (1:52:12 - 1:52:13)
To a or single

[Speaker 1] (1:52:13 - 1:52:13)
So

[Speaker 4] (1:52:13 - 1:52:13)
single.

[Speaker 5] (1:52:13 - 1:52:13)
family.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:13 - 1:52:16)
so you can do a two to four, it depends on what you want.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:16 - 1:52:21)
Right, so so a single family to a two family conversion.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:22 - 1:52:34)
in the same structure that we're talking about, right? So I think that that was what could be allowed under special circumstances, you know, with a special permit. Um

[Speaker 4] (1:52:35 - 1:52:39)
And it's not, you know, building that's you look ADUs are already allowed.

[Speaker 7] (1:52:39 - 1:52:39)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:39 - 1:52:40)
You know it's like

[Speaker 7] (1:52:40 - 1:52:41)
Take that off the table.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:41 - 1:52:41)
it's you can

[Speaker 7] (1:52:41 - 1:52:42)
not even.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:42 - 1:52:57)
put a little, you know, shed in your backyard if you want to and go have someone live there. So I mean, I think once again, it's just one of these things of saying a family home conversion, but there's no new construction that's going to be, that's going to come out and be a two family home.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:57 - 1:52:58)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:52:58 - 1:53:01)
And it you'll notice and I know I read through this.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:01 - 1:53:04)
In the zoning, in the cases that were given,

[Speaker 4] (1:53:05 - 1:53:10)
their restrictions were that, you know, it varies, but the house had to either,

[Speaker 4] (1:53:10 - 1:53:14)
you know, be built prior to 1955, before 1941,

[Speaker 4] (1:53:15 - 1:53:20)
you know, had to be older than 10 years old. In other words, you can't, you can't,

[Speaker 7] (1:53:20 - 1:53:20)
Can't build

[Speaker 4] (1:53:20 - 1:53:20)
you know,

[Speaker 7] (1:53:20 - 1:53:21)
it new

[Speaker 4] (1:53:21 - 1:53:21)
right,

[Speaker 7] (1:53:21 - 1:53:21)
and do it.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:21 - 1:53:23)
you can't build it new to convert it right away.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:25 - 1:53:29)
Because it's not, you know, technically it's not allowed.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:31 - 1:53:36)
And that was on, yeah, it's further down under partner ta ton um

[Speaker 7] (1:53:36 - 1:53:36)
Partner town zoning.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:36 - 1:53:37)
partner town zoning.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:38 - 1:53:44)
So this would eliminate the square foot, the fut footage limitations that exist with ADUs.

[Speaker 7] (1:53:45 - 1:53:46)
W w

[Speaker 4] (1:53:46 - 1:53:48)
Well, it has to be in the same house.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:48 - 1:53:49)
So

[Speaker 5] (1:53:49 - 1:53:50)
Right, right. But that's what

[Speaker 4] (1:53:50 - 1:53:50)
if

[Speaker 5] (1:53:50 - 1:53:50)
I mean.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:50 - 1:53:55)
you had a if you had a forty eight hundred square foot house and you were gonna split it right down the middle, yeah, I guess you're right.

[Speaker 4] (1:53:56 - 1:54:00)
But that would be not, you know, without expanding

[Speaker 5] (1:54:00 - 1:54:00)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:00 - 1:54:04)
massing or the I mean I don't know, we haven't talked about what the, you know, specifics

[Speaker 7] (1:54:04 - 1:54:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:04 - 1:54:06)
are, but if

[Speaker 7] (1:54:06 - 1:54:06)
So I

[Speaker 4] (1:54:06 - 1:54:06)
they're

[Speaker 7] (1:54:06 - 1:54:06)
guess

[Speaker 4] (1:54:06 - 1:54:07)
friends.

[Speaker 7] (1:54:07 - 1:54:17)
in theory, if th if you have a five thousand square foot house, I guess you technically could make it a let's use yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:17 - 1:54:17)
Five.

[Speaker 7] (1:54:17 - 1:54:18)
Two

[Speaker 5] (1:54:18 - 1:54:18)
And

[Speaker 7] (1:54:18 - 1:54:20)
two twenty five hundreds or two two two

[Speaker 7] (1:54:21 - 1:54:26)
two 21s and an ADU that's attached that's 800. I mean in theory you could do that.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:26 - 1:54:33)
And then I don't fully understand this. I know that in the conversations about ADUs, if you then are turning this into a two unit property,

[Speaker 5] (1:54:33 - 1:54:35)
does that allow for two ADUs?

[Speaker 7] (1:54:36 - 1:54:36)
No.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:36 - 1:54:37)
Now,

[Speaker 7] (1:54:37 - 1:54:37)
State law.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:37 - 1:54:38)
that is

[Speaker 7] (1:54:38 - 1:54:38)
You have

[Speaker 4] (1:54:38 - 1:54:38)
a hot

[Speaker 7] (1:54:38 - 1:54:38)
to get a variance.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:38 - 1:54:42)
spot somewhere. It's like one per per property or something.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:42 - 1:54:43)
One per property.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:43 - 1:54:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:54:43 - 1:54:43)
And

[Speaker 5] (1:54:43 - 1:54:43)
And

[Speaker 7] (1:54:43 - 1:54:44)
that's in

[Speaker 5] (1:54:44 - 1:54:44)
then

[Speaker 7] (1:54:44 - 1:54:44)
the state

[Speaker 5] (1:54:44 - 1:54:44)
I

[Speaker 7] (1:54:44 - 1:54:44)
law

[Speaker 5] (1:54:44 - 1:54:44)
guess

[Speaker 7] (1:54:44 - 1:54:44)
as

[Speaker 5] (1:54:44 - 1:54:45)
the other question

[Speaker 7] (1:54:45 - 1:54:45)
well.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:45 - 1:54:50)
is this does not allow for building expansions or are building expansions

[Speaker 4] (1:54:50 - 1:54:50)
Well,

[Speaker 5] (1:54:50 - 1:54:50)
in doing

[Speaker 7] (1:54:50 - 1:54:51)
we

[Speaker 5] (1:54:51 - 1:54:51)
we this?

[Speaker 7] (1:54:51 - 1:54:53)
could allow that if we wanted to, but

[Speaker 4] (1:54:53 - 1:54:53)
We could,

[Speaker 7] (1:54:53 - 1:54:53)
or

[Speaker 4] (1:54:53 - 1:54:54)
but I think we specifically

[Speaker 7] (1:54:54 - 1:54:55)
we could not

[Speaker 4] (1:54:55 - 1:54:55)
are

[Speaker 7] (1:54:55 - 1:54:55)
allow

[Speaker 4] (1:54:55 - 1:54:55)
talking

[Speaker 7] (1:54:55 - 1:54:55)
that.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:55 - 1:54:57)
about a home conversion,

[Speaker 4] (1:54:57 - 1:54:57)
right?

[Speaker 4] (1:54:58 - 1:55:01)
I mean you might need to add a different exit change.

[Speaker 7] (1:55:01 - 1:55:02)
Fire code stuff.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:02 - 1:55:10)
Right, change the uh facade in terms of are you gonna have, you know, one doorway service to house homes, you know, that type

[Speaker 1] (1:55:10 - 1:55:11)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:55:11 - 1:55:11)
of thing.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:11 - 1:55:11)
that's a part

[Speaker 7] (1:55:11 - 1:55:11)
Why

[Speaker 1] (1:55:11 - 1:55:11)
of it.

[Speaker 7] (1:55:11 - 1:55:13)
do you ask that question, Jerwit?

[Speaker 5] (1:55:13 - 1:55:14)
Just curiosity.

[Speaker 7] (1:55:14 - 1:55:15)
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
Does

[Speaker 7] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
So do

[Speaker 5] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
that mean

[Speaker 7] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
you think

[Speaker 5] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
in the

[Speaker 7] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
we

[Speaker 5] (1:55:15 - 1:55:15)
sense

[Speaker 7] (1:55:15 - 1:55:16)
should?

[Speaker 5] (1:55:16 - 1:55:16)
that

[Speaker 7] (1:55:16 - 1:55:17)
Consider

[Speaker 5] (1:55:17 - 1:55:17)
Uh, no, but some of

[Speaker 7] (1:55:17 - 1:55:17)
or

[Speaker 5] (1:55:17 - 1:55:18)
the so

[Speaker 7] (1:55:18 - 1:55:18)
not.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:18 - 1:55:26)
I I did not get a chance to read this thoroughly, but there is a few images in here that where the houses are d definitely expanded.

[Speaker 7] (1:55:27 - 1:55:27)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:27 - 1:55:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:27 - 1:55:30)
Um maybe.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:33 - 1:55:35)
I think the idea is that it would

[Speaker 1] (1:55:36 - 1:55:38)
be using, you know, the original

[Speaker 5] (1:55:38 - 1:55:39)
Mm-hmm. The original

[Speaker 1] (1:55:39 - 1:55:40)
small,

[Speaker 5] (1:55:40 - 1:55:40)
footprint.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:40 - 1:55:41)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:55:41 - 1:55:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:42 - 1:55:42)
Um

[Speaker 7] (1:55:42 - 1:55:51)
The real hope is to use a single family looking house and just make it a multifamily house, but size, scale, neighbourhood character of

[Speaker 5] (1:55:51 - 1:55:51)
And

[Speaker 7] (1:55:51 - 1:55:51)
an existing

[Speaker 5] (1:55:51 - 1:55:51)
then the

[Speaker 7] (1:55:51 - 1:55:52)
single family home.

[Speaker 5] (1:55:54 - 1:56:01)
issue around like how how do we handle parking when you you know if you figure

[Speaker 5] (1:56:02 - 1:56:10)
An average family has at least two cars. All of a sudden you're up to four cars. Um how is that generally handled in these?

[Speaker 7] (1:56:12 - 1:56:15)
You would do it's one point five per unit across town?

[Speaker 1] (1:56:16 - 1:56:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:16 - 1:56:17)
Same calculation would apply.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:17 - 1:56:17)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (1:56:18 - 1:56:18)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:20 - 1:56:22)
And then you round up when you get to a half a unit, you round up.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:24 - 1:56:26)
I don't know if it's in the bylaw and this is a separate conversation.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:27 - 1:56:31)
Do tandems count or not count? 'Cause every week I'm confused by that.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:31 - 1:56:32)
What do you mean tandems in terms of?

[Speaker 5] (1:56:32 - 1:56:33)
Parking.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:33 - 1:56:33)
Those

[Speaker 5] (1:56:33 - 1:56:33)
How many do parking

[Speaker 7] (1:56:33 - 1:56:34)
two, if spaces that's in tandem,

[Speaker 5] (1:56:34 - 1:56:34)
in a

[Speaker 1] (1:56:34 - 1:56:34)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (1:56:34 - 1:56:35)
is that one

[Speaker 1] (1:56:35 - 1:56:35)
like

[Speaker 7] (1:56:35 - 1:56:35)
spot

[Speaker 1] (1:56:35 - 1:56:35)
a

[Speaker 7] (1:56:35 - 1:56:35)
or two

[Speaker 1] (1:56:35 - 1:56:35)
business

[Speaker 7] (1:56:35 - 1:56:35)
spots?

[Speaker 1] (1:56:35 - 1:56:36)
spot too.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:36 - 1:56:41)
Yeah, it's a yeah. lot of there's a lot of parking like that in our town. So I mean

[Speaker 7] (1:56:41 - 1:56:42)
We should

[Speaker 4] (1:56:42 - 1:56:42)
we have

[Speaker 7] (1:56:42 - 1:56:44)
maybe a thought for another day, we should clarify that.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:44 - 1:56:46)
Yeah, yeah. I mean even my the house I grew up

[Speaker 7] (1:56:46 - 1:56:46)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:46 - 1:56:48)
in, my parents parked one behind the other always.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:48 - 1:56:48)
We could

[Speaker 5] (1:56:48 - 1:56:49)
That be that'd be full-sized.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:49 - 1:56:51)
have a formal interpretation.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:51 - 1:56:51)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (1:56:51 - 1:56:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:51 - 1:56:53)
but one in front of the other,

[Speaker 5] (1:56:53 - 1:56:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:53 - 1:56:54)
that example there, is that two spots

[Speaker 7] (1:56:54 - 1:56:55)
a two spots or one spot

[Speaker 5] (1:56:55 - 1:56:56)
whatever it is nine by eleven

[Speaker 4] (1:56:56 - 1:56:58)
Oh, I think it we look at the length of the driveway.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:58 - 1:56:59)
I say that

[Speaker 4] (1:56:59 - 1:56:59)
That

[Speaker 5] (1:56:59 - 1:56:59)
four

[Speaker 4] (1:56:59 - 1:56:59)
can easily

[Speaker 5] (1:56:59 - 1:57:01)
spots should be accommodate more eleven.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:01 - 1:57:02)
two cars off the road.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:02 - 1:57:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:57:03 - 1:57:03)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:03 - 1:57:08)
Um they have to do whole nine back delivery because the one that

[Speaker 7] (1:57:08 - 1:57:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:08 - 1:57:10)
went on the lean came in and it was

[Speaker 5] (1:57:10 - 1:57:12)
What too short. what if

[Speaker 7] (1:57:12 - 1:57:12)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:12 - 1:57:19)
so how if this gets put forward

[Speaker 5] (1:57:20 - 1:57:26)
How do we combat the value of a property?

[Speaker 5] (1:57:30 - 1:57:32)
So are

[Speaker 5] (1:57:33 - 1:57:48)
we at risk of people attempting to buy a single family home having to always compete with a flipper that wants to turn it into two units?

[Speaker 5] (1:57:49 - 1:57:52)
And how do we keep that from happening, if this is the case?

[Speaker 10] (1:57:52 - 1:57:53)
Let's make a persona for him as well.

[Speaker 10] (1:57:54 - 1:57:54)
Perfect.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:55 - 1:57:55)
I think

[Speaker 4] (1:57:55 - 1:57:56)
Wait,

[Speaker 5] (1:57:56 - 1:57:57)
we needed to merge these two.

[Speaker 4] (1:57:57 - 1:57:58)
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:58 - 1:57:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:57:59 - 1:58:01)
What houses will require base

[Speaker 7] (1:58:01 - 1:58:02)
Well, coverage I in reality,

[Speaker 5] (1:58:02 - 1:58:03)
solar panels?

[Speaker 7] (1:58:03 - 1:58:04)
we're already doing that.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:04 - 1:58:07)
You know, it's not, if we're not making it by right,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:07 - 1:58:10)
we're saying you can, you know, you can apply for,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:10 - 1:58:15)
you know, it's, why would someone go to the trouble of.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:16 - 1:58:24)
of buying a house, putting all the work into it to make it you know two units inside, having to work within that structure,

[Speaker 5] (1:58:24 - 1:58:24)
So

[Speaker 4] (1:58:24 - 1:58:24)
right.

[Speaker 5] (1:58:24 - 1:58:26)
this is not making it by right.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:27 - 1:58:28)
No, it's a special

[Speaker 1] (1:58:28 - 1:58:28)
It's

[Speaker 4] (1:58:28 - 1:58:28)
permit.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:28 - 1:58:29)
up to it. Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:29 - 1:58:29)
Presumably.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:29 - 1:58:30)
it would be up to you,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:30 - 1:58:30)
No way

[Speaker 1] (1:58:30 - 1:58:30)
you

[Speaker 4] (1:58:30 - 1:58:32)
I'd make it by right, no way.

[Speaker 5] (1:58:33 - 1:58:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:33 - 1:58:36)
Because then we you know, we're talking about, you know, keeping the

[Speaker 4] (1:58:37 - 1:58:45)
keeping the structure of the house and not expanding it, because then you're in a whole different world of special permit stuff.

[Speaker 5] (1:58:45 - 1:58:53)
Well, the the the reasons I ask is is, you know, if I jump back to Captain Jack's, Captain

[Speaker 5] (1:58:54 - 1:58:59)
Jack's was not a viable hotel purchase because of the value of the land.

[Speaker 7] (1:59:01 - 1:59:01)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:59:01 - 1:59:01)
So

[Speaker 5] (1:59:02 - 1:59:04)
That can manifest itself

[Speaker 2] (1:59:06 - 1:59:07)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:08 - 1:59:12)
And that would be a concern that

[Speaker 1] (1:59:14 - 1:59:22)
I think we should study as to, you know, what does happen for

[Speaker 1] (1:59:24 - 1:59:25)
families that are looking

[Speaker 1] (1:59:26 - 1:59:38)
within a community like if you start in a smaller house and your family grows and all of a sudden you're competing with a developer instead of, you know, have if I'm looking for a twenty five hundred square foot house,

[Speaker 3] (1:59:38 - 1:59:38)
I see.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:38 - 1:59:43)
if I'm competing with someone that's looking at that as two twelve hundred and fifty

[Speaker 3] (1:59:43 - 1:59:43)
But why

[Speaker 1] (1:59:43 - 1:59:43)
square

[Speaker 3] (1:59:43 - 1:59:46)
do they think they're going to sell that property for more money just because

[Speaker 1] (1:59:47 - 1:59:52)
Because they could have a deeper pocket to do it because they are a developer not a not a family.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:52 - 1:59:55)
But we already every property in a one and a two already has that.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:57 - 2:00:05)
already has that problem in theory. Because you're allowing special permit. Some of those districts you have by right up to two family and others special permit up to eight units. So that I that

[Speaker 1] (2:00:05 - 2:00:07)
thought you were saying A_ one and A_ two does not have the

[Speaker 4] (2:00:07 - 2:00:10)
A_ three and A_ four. Um might be using the wrong zoning districts,

[Speaker 1] (2:00:10 - 2:00:10)
A_

[Speaker 4] (2:00:10 - 2:00:10)
but

[Speaker 1] (2:00:10 - 2:00:11)
three A_ three

[Speaker 4] (2:00:11 - 2:00:13)
some of our zoning districts already have that

[Speaker 1] (2:00:13 - 2:00:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:13 - 2:00:13)
exact

[Speaker 3] (2:00:13 - 2:00:13)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:13 - 2:00:14)
mechanism.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:15 - 2:00:20)
But with even less potential restriction, since you're allowed to do a dep you would, in theory, be allowed to do additions in if

[Speaker 3] (2:00:20 - 2:00:35)
I think what we want to do here is say in basically in in districts where it's single family zoning you can, if you have you know some beautiful old house that we we're trying to make it for older houses, right, so the bigger, older houses, I guess.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:36 - 2:00:36)
Because

[Speaker 5] (2:00:36 - 2:00:36)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:36 - 2:00:47)
it you know I don't know any whatever so that's just I'll stick with what I was saying. Um the larger older houses can be you know without any change to their

[Speaker 1] (2:00:48 - 2:00:48)
Exterior.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:48 - 2:00:54)
exterior can be divided inside to be two family homes. Now there

[Speaker 4] (2:00:54 - 2:00:55)
Or

[Speaker 3] (2:00:55 - 2:00:55)
there

[Speaker 4] (2:00:55 - 2:00:55)
more.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:55 - 2:00:58)
is gonna um well we're saying two yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:59 - 2:01:00)
I was

[Speaker 1] (2:01:00 - 2:01:00)
Now

[Speaker 3] (2:01:00 - 2:01:00)
thinking.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:00 - 2:01:01)
it's at two to four.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:01 - 2:01:01)
Two

[Speaker 3] (2:01:01 - 2:01:01)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (2:01:01 - 2:01:01)
four

[Speaker 3] (2:01:01 - 2:01:02)
well,

[Speaker 4] (2:01:02 - 2:01:02)
to

[Speaker 1] (2:01:02 - 2:01:03)
But I mean this is all

[Speaker 3] (2:01:03 - 2:01:03)
this is the discussion.

[Speaker 6] (2:01:03 - 2:01:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:03 - 2:01:03)
theoretic

[Speaker 3] (2:01:03 - 2:01:04)
Yeah, I don't,

[Speaker 6] (2:01:04 - 2:01:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:04 - 2:01:04)
I

[Speaker 4] (2:01:04 - 2:01:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:04 - 2:01:04)
don't

[Speaker 3] (2:01:04 - 2:01:10)
don't think two to four is going to fly because So it's already, you already need a special permit for that in

[Speaker 1] (2:01:10 - 2:01:11)
One of the things I think is interesting

[Speaker 3] (2:01:11 - 2:01:12)
everywhere.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:12 - 2:01:16)
is how do we balance historic preservation and allowing adaptive reuse of older homes.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:17 - 2:01:18)
You know, if

[Speaker 1] (2:01:20 - 2:01:23)
If I think about some of the sizable houses

[Speaker 3] (2:01:24 - 2:01:27)
I'm thinking about Elmwood Road for example, let's just throw it out there.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:27 - 2:01:28)
can't imagine.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:28 - 2:01:28)
Yeah, um

[Speaker 3] (2:01:28 - 2:01:32)
so they're very very large historic homes in an historic district.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:33 - 2:01:42)
So say someone just found their house like unmanageable and maybe they thought they'd you know who knows it would have to be someone who lived there already and

[Speaker 1] (2:01:42 - 2:01:42)
But

[Speaker 3] (2:01:42 - 2:01:42)
decided

[Speaker 1] (2:01:42 - 2:01:42)
I mean

[Speaker 3] (2:01:42 - 2:01:43)
to do

[Speaker 1] (2:01:43 - 2:01:43)
the the

[Speaker 3] (2:01:43 - 2:01:43)
it, I mean

[Speaker 1] (2:01:43 - 2:01:44)
the thing that I

[Speaker 3] (2:01:44 - 2:01:45)
not cheap.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:46 - 2:01:56)
When I'm processing this, I also have to think if we're targeting these these larger over older homes, an H_D_C_ is really protecting the exteriors.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:56 - 2:01:56)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (2:01:56 - 2:01:57)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:58 - 2:02:02)
When you live in the Olmsted district and you're in some of these interiors,

[Speaker 1] (2:02:03 - 2:02:07)
they aren't protected but they are definitively worthy of

[Speaker 3] (2:02:07 - 2:02:08)
Yeah, they really are.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:08 - 2:02:14)
you know you you I and I can't I can't tell you what some of the houses on Elmwood, Rhodes and Sears are like you can't believe

[Speaker 3] (2:02:14 - 2:02:16)
I've been in quite a few of them. I I know what you mean.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:16 - 2:02:16)
yeah

[Speaker 3] (2:02:16 - 2:02:16)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:02:16 - 2:02:16)
and

[Speaker 3] (2:02:16 - 2:02:17)
mean

[Speaker 1] (2:02:17 - 2:02:25)
it's a case with things like this where you know when you when you do the examples on them because of the era of a lot of the houses in town

[Speaker 1] (2:02:26 - 2:02:27)
There isn't a way to maintain

[Speaker 3] (2:02:27 - 2:02:28)
No, there isn't.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:28 - 2:02:30)
the staircases, there is not a way to maintain

[Speaker 3] (2:02:30 - 2:02:30)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:30 - 2:02:40)
the the entry halls, there is not you know, so it is I mean I do I'm I'm responding to that how do we balance historical preservation, I think how do we define historical preservation.

[Speaker 8] (2:02:41 - 2:02:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:41 - 2:02:42)
Because is it a facade?

[Speaker 1] (2:02:43 - 2:02:44)
You know, is that

[Speaker 3] (2:02:44 - 2:02:44)
It's

[Speaker 1] (2:02:44 - 2:02:44)
is that

[Speaker 3] (2:02:44 - 2:02:44)
true, but on,

[Speaker 1] (2:02:44 - 2:02:45)
the authentic?

[Speaker 3] (2:02:45 - 2:02:58)
you know, there's there's just no mechanism in even through, you know, mass historical anywhere that I'm aware of, uh short of uh preservation restriction on a building that would protect the integrity

[Speaker 1] (2:02:58 - 2:02:59)
No, no.

[Speaker 3] (2:02:59 - 2:02:59)
of nothing.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:59 - 2:03:02)
But this would this

[Speaker 1] (2:03:04 - 2:03:07)
there's protection and then there's motivation.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:08 - 2:03:10)
So would we be motivating people

[Speaker 3] (2:03:10 - 2:03:11)
I see what you mean.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:11 - 2:03:12)
to

[Speaker 9] (2:03:12 - 2:03:12)
Hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:12 - 2:03:12)
To

[Speaker 1] (2:03:12 - 2:03:15)
act in a way that was anti-preservation?

[Speaker 3] (2:03:15 - 2:03:16)
kind of chop up the inside

[Speaker 1] (2:03:16 - 2:03:16)
Now,

[Speaker 3] (2:03:16 - 2:03:17)
of their house.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:17 - 2:03:19)
the the the district

[Speaker 3] (2:03:19 - 2:03:20)
Hard to around imagine.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:20 - 2:03:29)
Blaney Street the district Elmwood Road in itself I mean many of these have been reversed, but units have been taken out of houses there.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:29 - 2:03:33)
because post World War two many of those houses

[Speaker 3] (2:03:33 - 2:03:33)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (2:03:33 - 2:03:34)
were divided

[Speaker 3] (2:03:34 - 2:03:34)
right.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:34 - 2:03:38)
and um and some of them stand divided still. Uh-huh, still

[Speaker 4] (2:03:38 - 2:03:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:38 - 2:03:49)
undivided. Uh and and many of them have been reverted that where, you know, and and a lot of them were third floor apartments. But I think since we've lived there I can think of three

[Speaker 1] (2:03:50 - 2:03:52)
units that have been removed.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:52 - 2:03:54)
Many of them were illegal.

[Speaker 10] (2:03:54 - 2:03:55)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:55 - 2:04:03)
Um but, you know, there was a period of time where there were boarding houses on Elmwood Road because there was such a housing shortage,

[Speaker 3] (2:04:03 - 2:04:03)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:03 - 2:04:11)
and and it's how people kept them. So I I don't know, it is that's a that's a topic that I think is interesting. Um

[Speaker 1] (2:04:12 - 2:04:13)
And I don't

[Speaker 11] (2:04:13 - 2:04:13)
have someone.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:13 - 2:04:14)
have I don't have an answer to

[Speaker 3] (2:04:14 - 2:04:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:14 - 2:04:16)
that. It's just uh

[Speaker 3] (2:04:16 - 2:04:17)
I understand exactly what you're saying though.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:17 - 2:04:19)
You can deny that person.

[Speaker 11] (2:04:19 - 2:04:19)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:19 - 2:04:20)
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[Speaker 11] (2:04:20 - 2:04:21)
I I already admitted them.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:21 - 2:04:24)
It's it's my wife saying how's your meeting going? When are you coming home.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:26 - 2:04:26)
Um

[Speaker 13] (2:04:26 - 2:04:26)
Oh crap.

[Speaker 13] (2:04:27 - 2:04:28)
I have a do right?

[Speaker 1] (2:04:28 - 2:04:35)
and then the and then the parking requirements again w if we're talking the Olmstead district, that's one thing, but when we get into the neighbourhoods

[Speaker 4] (2:04:35 - 2:04:35)
Hopefully.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:35 - 2:04:38)
that really have very limited

[Speaker 13] (2:04:38 - 2:04:39)
space,

[Speaker 13] (2:04:40 - 2:04:40)
you

[Speaker 4] (2:04:40 - 2:04:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (2:04:40 - 2:04:44)
know, then then that becomes an interesting um

[Speaker 4] (2:04:46 - 2:04:57)
I am a personal opinion. Most cases to me, one parking spot per unit is, I think is standard and that's kind of where things are going towards.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:58 - 2:05:02)
Anything less than one is like a zero non-starter, not even worth

[Speaker 3] (2:05:02 - 2:05:03)
Joe

[Speaker 4] (2:05:03 - 2:05:03)
considering.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:03 - 2:05:05)
and I can't wait till we can have just one car.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:06 - 2:05:07)
It's coming.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:07 - 2:05:08)
It's a great thing.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:08 - 2:05:09)
It's coming one of these days.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:09 - 2:05:10)
Are you one car?

[Speaker 4] (2:05:10 - 2:05:13)
We are, but with a second kid coming very soon,

[Speaker 4] (2:05:14 - 2:05:15)
we are probably moving to two cars.

[Speaker 11] (2:05:15 - 2:05:16)
Yeah, I'm one car.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:16 - 2:05:17)
Yeah, that's good.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:17 - 2:05:17)
We're twenty

[Speaker 3] (2:05:17 - 2:05:17)
I'd have

[Speaker 1] (2:05:17 - 2:05:17)
years,

[Speaker 3] (2:05:17 - 2:05:18)
to take it.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:18 - 2:05:20)
one car with two kids.

[Speaker 11] (2:05:20 - 2:05:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:20 - 2:05:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:20 - 2:05:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:20 - 2:05:23)
But some of that has to do with the fact that we use public transit.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:23 - 2:05:24)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:05:24 - 2:05:25)
You know what I mean?

[Speaker 3] (2:05:25 - 2:05:25)
right.

[Speaker 11] (2:05:25 - 2:05:27)
Salem Skipper helps too. I live in Salem.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:28 - 2:05:28)
Uh yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:28 - 2:05:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:28 - 2:05:29)
Yeah? Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:30 - 2:05:37)
And we, you know, and they the other reality that we balance is that there's a very good rental agency and um

[Speaker 14] (2:05:37 - 2:05:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:37 - 2:05:38)
so we do

[Speaker 11] (2:05:38 - 2:05:38)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:38 - 2:05:44)
we do augment in moments that we we need to and it's way less expensive than having

[Speaker 3] (2:05:44 - 2:05:45)
Oh, yeah. For sure.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:45 - 2:05:46)
Um

[Speaker 4] (2:05:51 - 2:05:52)
Well I think we yeah we'll spend on this for a few more minutes.

[Speaker 13] (2:05:53 - 2:05:55)
How is this just not meeting you?

[Speaker 4] (2:05:56 - 2:05:58)
'Cause there's no size restriction and there's no use

[Speaker 13] (2:05:58 - 2:05:58)
There's

[Speaker 4] (2:05:58 - 2:05:59)
restriction.

[Speaker 13] (2:05:59 - 2:05:59)
an ADR

[Speaker 3] (2:05:59 - 2:05:59)
And it's

[Speaker 13] (2:05:59 - 2:05:59)
check.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:59 - 2:06:05)
and there's nothing that's outside of the structure that's there. So with an A_D_U_ you can actually have an addition.

[Speaker 13] (2:06:05 - 2:06:05)
You could,

[Speaker 11] (2:06:05 - 2:06:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (2:06:06 - 2:06:06)
but you don't have to.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:07 - 2:06:07)
Right.

[Speaker 13] (2:06:07 - 2:06:10)
So if you take one of these pictures, right, any one of them,

[Speaker 11] (2:06:10 - 2:06:11)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 13] (2:06:11 - 2:06:14)
and instead of making a whole apartment, you make a smaller apartment.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:14 - 2:06:15)
You can. And then it could be an A_D_U_

[Speaker 13] (2:06:15 - 2:06:16)
And that's already allowed.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:16 - 2:06:17)
Right,

[Speaker 13] (2:06:17 - 2:06:18)
Like we don't need to do anything for that.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:19 - 2:06:19)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (2:06:19 - 2:06:19)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 13] (2:06:19 - 2:06:19)
and

[Speaker 3] (2:06:19 - 2:06:20)
it

[Speaker 13] (2:06:20 - 2:06:20)
I'm

[Speaker 3] (2:06:20 - 2:06:20)
is allowed.

[Speaker 13] (2:06:20 - 2:06:24)
just saying that most of these are gonna be limited to nine hundred twelve hundred.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:25 - 2:06:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 13] (2:06:25 - 2:06:25)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:25 - 2:06:29)
agreed. It's just that it, I mean, I think it takes that whole restriction out.

[Speaker 4] (2:06:29 - 2:06:30)
Well, let's take I wouldn't need

[Speaker 3] (2:06:30 - 2:06:30)
And

[Speaker 4] (2:06:30 - 2:06:30)
you,

[Speaker 3] (2:06:30 - 2:06:30)
we're and

[Speaker 4] (2:06:30 - 2:06:30)
as

[Speaker 3] (2:06:30 - 2:06:37)
we're really looking about, you we're trying to I guess it does it is kind of incent you know kind of saying to people look what you can do.

[Speaker 4] (2:06:38 - 2:06:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:38 - 2:06:42)
I mean I think I think to Bill's point we already can't do that with an A_D_U_

[Speaker 4] (2:06:42 - 2:06:47)
You could do it with an A_D_U_ but you have all the restrictions that we have on A_D_U_s. Same utilities,

[Speaker 3] (2:06:47 - 2:06:47)
True, true.

[Speaker 4] (2:06:47 - 2:06:48)
same meters,

[Speaker 3] (2:06:48 - 2:06:48)
Right, right,

[Speaker 4] (2:06:48 - 2:06:49)
um

[Speaker 3] (2:06:49 - 2:06:49)
right, right, right.

[Speaker 4] (2:06:49 - 2:06:52)
tendency restr restrictions depending on the town which we have here.

[Speaker 4] (2:06:52 - 2:06:53)
Size restrictions.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:53 - 2:06:57)
Of course, we would never let, it would still be always be one property,

[Speaker 3] (2:06:57 - 2:06:58)
and it couldn't be, it

[Speaker 4] (2:06:58 - 2:06:58)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (2:06:58 - 2:06:59)
couldn't

[Speaker 4] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
but you

[Speaker 3] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
become

[Speaker 4] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
can multi

[Speaker 3] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
two

[Speaker 4] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
-meter

[Speaker 3] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
ad,

[Speaker 4] (2:06:59 - 2:07:00)
them.

[Speaker 3] (2:07:00 - 2:07:04)
you couldn't split it off and sell half your house, you couldn't sell, yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:07:04 - 2:07:05)
you couldn't

[Speaker 4] (2:07:05 - 2:07:06)
Well, you could do

[Speaker 3] (2:07:06 - 2:07:06)
do anything.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:06 - 2:07:07)
that. I mean we were

[Speaker 1] (2:07:07 - 2:07:07)
I

[Speaker 4] (2:07:07 - 2:07:07)
never

[Speaker 1] (2:07:07 - 2:07:07)
was gonna

[Speaker 4] (2:07:07 - 2:07:08)
going to say restrict that.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:08 - 2:07:11)
I don't know how you would restrict that. I mean it

[Speaker 3] (2:07:11 - 2:07:11)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:07:11 - 2:07:11)
do not

[Speaker 3] (2:07:11 - 2:07:11)
how you

[Speaker 1] (2:07:11 - 2:07:11)
convert

[Speaker 3] (2:07:11 - 2:07:14)
can't sell half a house, I mean it's not, it has to be.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:14 - 2:07:14)
A

[Speaker 13] (2:07:14 - 2:07:14)
But

[Speaker 4] (2:07:14 - 2:07:14)
condominium.

[Speaker 13] (2:07:14 - 2:07:19)
if it's three floors and they turn them into condominiums, each owner owns a floor.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:20 - 2:07:20)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:07:20 - 2:07:22)
Yeah. Oh, that's that's tricky.

[Speaker 13] (2:07:22 - 2:07:24)
Also, there's one on my street that's just

[Speaker 3] (2:07:24 - 2:07:28)
Oh, there's that one right on uh right on Humphrey Street going into uh

[Speaker 13] (2:07:28 - 2:07:29)
There's a there's a lot of them, but

[Speaker 3] (2:07:29 - 2:07:29)
they got

[Speaker 13] (2:07:29 - 2:07:30)
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 3] (2:07:30 - 2:07:47)
it they got a preservation award actually years ago. It's one of those houses that has um well I ain't charged for me to describe now, but it's like right along, as soon as you before um before you're heading out towards uh, you know, out towards Lynn and it's on the right hand side,

[Speaker 4] (2:07:47 - 2:07:47)
Oh,

[Speaker 3] (2:07:47 - 2:07:47)
it's one of

[Speaker 4] (2:07:47 - 2:07:47)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:07:47 - 2:07:48)
the big houses.

[Speaker 13] (2:07:48 - 2:07:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:48 - 2:07:49)
Yeah. Oh yeah,

[Speaker 4] (2:07:49 - 2:07:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:49 - 2:07:49)
yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:49 - 2:07:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 11] (2:07:49 - 2:07:50)
Um, and it's

[Speaker 4] (2:07:50 - 2:07:50)
The yellow

[Speaker 11] (2:07:50 - 2:07:50)
a three

[Speaker 4] (2:07:50 - 2:07:50)
one?

[Speaker 11] (2:07:50 - 2:07:50)
Amber story.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:50 - 2:07:51)
roof

[Speaker 4] (2:07:51 - 2:07:51)
The

[Speaker 1] (2:07:51 - 2:07:51)
with

[Speaker 4] (2:07:51 - 2:07:52)
yellow one?

[Speaker 1] (2:07:52 - 2:07:52)
multi-floor

[Speaker 11] (2:07:52 - 2:07:54)
Uh, it might be yellow. Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:07:54 - 2:07:54)
no, it's

[Speaker 11] (2:07:54 - 2:07:54)
could

[Speaker 1] (2:07:54 - 2:07:54)
sort

[Speaker 11] (2:07:54 - 2:07:54)
be.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:54 - 2:07:56)
of a uh uh

[Speaker 1] (2:07:58 - 2:07:59)
soapy Yeah, the light

[Speaker 3] (2:07:59 - 2:08:00)
could be toffee.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:00 - 2:08:00)
toffee colour with

[Speaker 3] (2:08:00 - 2:08:01)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:01 - 2:08:02)
with a ni it's a very nice house.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:02 - 2:08:02)
Three

[Speaker 3] (2:08:02 - 2:08:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:02 - 2:08:03)
floors?

[Speaker 1] (2:08:03 - 2:08:03)
Three

[Speaker 3] (2:08:03 - 2:08:03)
Yes,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:03 - 2:08:04)
floors,

[Speaker 3] (2:08:04 - 2:08:04)
it's three

[Speaker 1] (2:08:04 - 2:08:04)
gambrel

[Speaker 3] (2:08:04 - 2:08:04)
union.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:04 - 2:08:05)
roof on the top.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:05 - 2:08:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:05 - 2:08:07)
I know the I know the one.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:07 - 2:08:11)
There's a number of gambrel roof and there's one that that is has exquisite detail

[Speaker 3] (2:08:11 - 2:08:11)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:11 - 2:08:11)
in that one.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:11 - 2:08:13)
it's that one because they they did

[Speaker 1] (2:08:13 - 2:08:13)
But

[Speaker 3] (2:08:13 - 2:08:13)
get,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:13 - 2:08:19)
that, you know, condom condoising is is definitely, you know, where this would be and there

[Speaker 3] (2:08:19 - 2:08:19)
So

[Speaker 1] (2:08:19 - 2:08:19)
are

[Speaker 3] (2:08:19 - 2:08:25)
I guess it would be owned by like a condo association then or something because it can't I mean it has

[Speaker 3] (2:08:25 - 2:08:26)
I mean it has to be run by that, you just sell

[Speaker 11] (2:08:26 - 2:08:27)
But

[Speaker 3] (2:08:27 - 2:08:28)
the condo and you can't, you know.

[Speaker 11] (2:08:28 - 2:08:31)
they're individually owned, but you would have an HOA,

[Speaker 4] (2:08:32 - 2:08:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 11] (2:08:32 - 2:08:36)
like whatever whatever the units are for like roof and anything exterior to finance.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:36 - 2:08:40)
And there's a bunch of those those in like the the Macintosh district in Salem,

[Speaker 13] (2:08:40 - 2:08:40)
Tom

[Speaker 3] (2:08:40 - 2:08:40)
you know.

[Speaker 13] (2:08:40 - 2:08:41)
there's there's

[Speaker 15] (2:08:41 - 2:08:41)
Yeah,

[Speaker 13] (2:08:41 - 2:08:43)
hundreds of them there are more places that

[Speaker 3] (2:08:43 - 2:08:43)
I mean

[Speaker 13] (2:08:43 - 2:08:43)
you can

[Speaker 3] (2:08:43 - 2:08:44)
he lived in one like

[Speaker 13] (2:08:44 - 2:08:44)
Own

[Speaker 3] (2:08:44 - 2:08:44)
that.

[Speaker 15] (2:08:44 - 2:08:44)
that, yeah.

[Speaker 13] (2:08:44 - 2:08:44)
right?

[Speaker 4] (2:08:44 - 2:08:44)
Yeah,

[Speaker 11] (2:08:44 - 2:08:45)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:45 - 2:08:45)
I mean.

[Speaker 11] (2:08:45 - 2:08:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (2:08:45 - 2:08:45)
there's

[Speaker 4] (2:08:45 - 2:08:45)
it's right.

[Speaker 13] (2:08:45 - 2:08:49)
um Elmwood Road has one uh there's one on Walker Road.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:49 - 2:08:50)
Yeah, that's not that unusual.

[Speaker 11] (2:08:50 - 2:08:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 13] (2:08:51 - 2:08:51)
Oh.

[Speaker 16] (2:08:51 - 2:08:51)
Oh.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:51 - 2:08:55)
So what are we doing here then? What are we actually doing? What are we trying to say?

[Speaker 13] (2:08:56 - 2:08:58)
Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. So

[Speaker 3] (2:08:58 - 2:08:59)
You can break up the... You can break up the...

[Speaker 1] (2:09:02 - 2:09:03)
you have to you

[Speaker 2] (2:09:03 - 2:09:05)
Yeah, this isn't this isn't about creating a rental unit.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:05 - 2:09:06)
Which no,

[Speaker 2] (2:09:06 - 2:09:06)
This this is this

[Speaker 3] (2:09:06 - 2:09:06)
is about

[Speaker 2] (2:09:06 - 2:09:07)
is about

[Speaker 3] (2:09:07 - 2:09:07)
creating

[Speaker 2] (2:09:07 - 2:09:07)
not creating

[Speaker 3] (2:09:07 - 2:09:07)
a housing

[Speaker 2] (2:09:07 - 2:09:08)
a

[Speaker 3] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
housing

[Speaker 2] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
rental

[Speaker 4] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
unit. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
unit with

[Speaker 2] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:08 - 2:09:09)
without

[Speaker 2] (2:09:09 - 2:09:09)
And it could

[Speaker 1] (2:09:09 - 2:09:09)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:09 - 2:09:11)
be rental, it could be yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:11 - 2:09:11)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:11 - 2:09:14)
It's about creating more units without disrupting size,

[Speaker 1] (2:09:14 - 2:09:14)
Pattern.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:14 - 2:09:14)
scale, character

[Speaker 1] (2:09:14 - 2:09:14)
Without

[Speaker 3] (2:09:14 - 2:09:15)
of

[Speaker 1] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
developing.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
without

[Speaker 2] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
what is already

[Speaker 1] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
Without

[Speaker 3] (2:09:15 - 2:09:16)
existing.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:16 - 2:09:17)
disrupting the pattern,

[Speaker 2] (2:09:17 - 2:09:18)
If it's

[Speaker 1] (2:09:18 - 2:09:18)
the neighborhood

[Speaker 2] (2:09:18 - 2:09:18)
development,

[Speaker 1] (2:09:18 - 2:09:19)
pattern.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:19 - 2:09:19)
then if it's

[Speaker 1] (2:09:19 - 2:09:19)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:19 - 2:09:22)
got to be two family, then you have to look into it.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:22 - 2:09:22)
self-managed.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:22 - 2:09:23)
You can do whatever

[Speaker 5] (2:09:23 - 2:09:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:23 - 2:09:23)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:09:23 - 2:09:23)
you like.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:23 - 2:09:24)
mean you use

[Speaker 1] (2:09:24 - 2:09:24)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:24 - 2:09:24)
it, right?

[Speaker 3] (2:09:25 - 2:09:25)
Correct.

[Speaker 5] (2:09:25 - 2:09:25)
And it

[Speaker 2] (2:09:25 - 2:09:26)
So

[Speaker 5] (2:09:26 - 2:09:28)
opens up more types of housing for people who want to live

[Speaker 1] (2:09:28 - 2:09:28)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:09:28 - 2:09:29)
in smaller spaces.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:29 - 2:09:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:32 - 2:09:35)
I'm trying to think of it from the perspective of what the pushback.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:36 - 2:09:37)
Can make pushback

[Speaker 1] (2:09:37 - 2:09:37)
So that's

[Speaker 3] (2:09:37 - 2:09:37)
is your

[Speaker 1] (2:09:37 - 2:09:37)
what I

[Speaker 3] (2:09:37 - 2:09:37)
creative,

[Speaker 1] (2:09:37 - 2:09:38)
try to you're think

[Speaker 3] (2:09:38 - 2:09:38)
creating

[Speaker 1] (2:09:38 - 2:09:38)
about with

[Speaker 3] (2:09:38 - 2:09:39)
more more housing.

[Speaker 6] (2:09:39 - 2:09:40)
Density.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:40 - 2:09:40)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:40 - 2:09:40)
It's it's

[Speaker 1] (2:09:40 - 2:09:41)
It's

[Speaker 2] (2:09:41 - 2:09:41)
it's

[Speaker 1] (2:09:41 - 2:09:41)
just

[Speaker 2] (2:09:41 - 2:09:41)
dense

[Speaker 1] (2:09:41 - 2:09:41)
creating

[Speaker 2] (2:09:41 - 2:09:41)
anyway.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:41 - 2:09:41)
right.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:41 - 2:09:42)
It's yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:42 - 2:09:43)
And that's valid

[Speaker 1] (2:09:43 - 2:09:43)
More

[Speaker 3] (2:09:43 - 2:09:43)
pushback,

[Speaker 1] (2:09:43 - 2:09:44)
housing,

[Speaker 3] (2:09:44 - 2:09:44)
but that's

[Speaker 1] (2:09:44 - 2:09:44)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:44 - 2:09:46)
in terms of everything we do,

[Speaker 2] (2:09:46 - 2:09:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:46 - 2:09:48)
that's the only pushback I can think of.

[Speaker 6] (2:09:48 - 2:09:49)
It's always practically

[Speaker 3] (2:09:49 - 2:09:49)
You're creating more

[Speaker 6] (2:09:49 - 2:09:49)
trash

[Speaker 3] (2:09:49 - 2:09:50)
density.

[Speaker 6] (2:09:50 - 2:09:50)
noise and

[Speaker 1] (2:09:50 - 2:09:51)
But we're not putting in

[Speaker 3] (2:09:51 - 2:09:51)
Trash

[Speaker 1] (2:09:51 - 2:09:52)
14

[Speaker 3] (2:09:52 - 2:09:52)
noise.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:52 - 2:09:53)
apartments, it's like another,

[Speaker 1] (2:09:53 - 2:09:54)
you know,

[Speaker 3] (2:09:54 - 2:10:02)
It's another fixed X amount of units. But you're not changing character, you're not changing massing, you're not changing any of the existing.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:03 - 2:10:06)
neighborhood theme, whatever the word was you just used.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:06 - 2:10:10)
And you know I'm talking about the historic preservation, but realistically in

[Speaker 1] (2:10:10 - 2:10:10)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:10 - 2:10:17)
private ownership every bit every single in historic interior is not protected at all.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:17 - 2:10:19)
Well, there's nothing you can do about that, unfortunately.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:19 - 2:10:20)
No oh no no,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:20 - 2:10:20)
I wish

[Speaker 2] (2:10:20 - 2:10:20)
but I

[Speaker 1] (2:10:20 - 2:10:20)
you

[Speaker 2] (2:10:20 - 2:10:20)
mean,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:20 - 2:10:21)
were,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:21 - 2:10:21)
I'm just

[Speaker 1] (2:10:21 - 2:10:21)
but that

[Speaker 2] (2:10:21 - 2:10:21)
saying

[Speaker 1] (2:10:21 - 2:10:21)
I have

[Speaker 2] (2:10:21 - 2:10:21)
that

[Speaker 1] (2:10:21 - 2:10:21)
that fear.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:21 - 2:10:22)
when I

[Speaker 1] (2:10:22 - 2:10:22)
I understand.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:22 - 2:10:25)
when I was looking at this, that was my that was my question

[Speaker 1] (2:10:25 - 2:10:25)
But

[Speaker 2] (2:10:25 - 2:10:25)
on I that, but realistically

[Speaker 1] (2:10:25 - 2:10:26)
people who

[Speaker 2] (2:10:26 - 2:10:26)
it's not

[Speaker 1] (2:10:26 - 2:10:31)
own some of those exquisite properties on Elmwood Road, you just can't even imagine that they'd

[Speaker 1] (2:10:32 - 2:10:33)
you'd have the heart to like,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:33 - 2:10:34)
Have you been to Lynn Shore Drive?

[Speaker 2] (2:10:36 - 2:10:36)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:36 - 2:10:36)
Oh.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:36 - 2:10:37)
God.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:37 - 2:10:41)
But I'm not talking about that was, I would hardly say that it started out as exquisite, but yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:41 - 2:10:42)
Are you

[Speaker 1] (2:10:42 - 2:10:42)
that was

[Speaker 2] (2:10:42 - 2:10:42)
kidding?

[Speaker 1] (2:10:42 - 2:10:42)
pretty bad.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:42 - 2:10:46)
That was one of the most intact exquisite.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:46 - 2:10:48)
My, I'd never seen the inside I guess,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:48 - 2:10:48)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:48 - 2:10:48)
you know,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:48 - 2:10:49)
no,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:49 - 2:10:49)
that was,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:49 - 2:10:50)
no, that was a beautiful.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:50 - 2:10:52)
I mean, that is the craziest thing.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:52 - 2:10:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:52 - 2:10:53)
It's totally crazy.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:53 - 2:10:53)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:53 - 2:10:54)
It's like a.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:54 - 2:10:55)
You could land a helicopter on

[Speaker 2] (2:10:55 - 2:10:55)
so,

[Speaker 3] (2:10:55 - 2:10:55)
that.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:55 - 2:10:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:55 - 2:10:56)
would

[Speaker 3] (2:10:56 - 2:10:56)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:56 - 2:10:57)
the question,

[Speaker 2] (2:10:57 - 2:10:57)
so.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:00 - 2:11:03)
Could density bonuses be tied to affordability or accessibility?

[Speaker 5] (2:11:04 - 2:11:06)
We don't, yeah, need to

[Speaker 1] (2:11:06 - 2:11:06)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:11:06 - 2:11:06)
I And

[Speaker 1] (2:11:06 - 2:11:06)
don't

[Speaker 2] (2:11:06 - 2:11:07)
you

[Speaker 1] (2:11:07 - 2:11:07)
think we

[Speaker 2] (2:11:07 - 2:11:07)
are.

[Speaker 5] (2:11:07 - 2:11:07)
I don't need to

[Speaker 1] (2:11:07 - 2:11:07)
really

[Speaker 5] (2:11:07 - 2:11:08)
get to that

[Speaker 1] (2:11:08 - 2:11:08)
wouldn't

[Speaker 5] (2:11:08 - 2:11:08)
one, though.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:08 - 2:11:09)
be looking at density.

[Speaker 5] (2:11:09 - 2:11:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:09 - 2:11:10)
I mean,

[Speaker 5] (2:11:10 - 2:11:10)
These

[Speaker 1] (2:11:10 - 2:11:10)
right.

[Speaker 5] (2:11:10 - 2:11:11)
were just like discussion.

[Speaker 7] (2:11:11 - 2:11:11)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:11 - 2:11:12)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:12 - 2:11:13)
No, I just thought it was an interesting

[Speaker 5] (2:11:13 - 2:11:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:13 - 2:11:13)
question.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:18 - 2:11:24)
I'm going to throw my thought and I'm very much knowing I'm going to get reactions and that's why I'm doing it because I want to get thoughts on this.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:25 - 2:11:26)
I think this is a

[Speaker 3] (2:11:26 - 2:11:30)
I like this because I don't think it disrupts neighbourhood character. I think the unit count,

[Speaker 3] (2:11:31 - 2:11:38)
I don't think two, I think two unit two is too small. I think five, six, seven, eight are way too large.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:40 - 2:11:41)
Um and I think

[Speaker 3] (2:11:42 - 2:11:42)
See

[Speaker 1] (2:11:42 - 2:11:43)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:11:43 - 2:11:43)
the

[Speaker 1] (2:11:43 - 2:11:43)
think

[Speaker 3] (2:11:43 - 2:11:43)
density

[Speaker 1] (2:11:43 - 2:11:45)
four is too, I think four is too large.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:45 - 2:11:47)
I mean three is pushing it in my mind.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:47 - 2:11:47)
I think

[Speaker 1] (2:11:47 - 2:11:47)
Three, three

[Speaker 2] (2:11:47 - 2:11:48)
by the time

[Speaker 1] (2:11:48 - 2:11:50)
is a, three is a major gutting

[Speaker 3] (2:11:50 - 2:11:51)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:51 - 2:11:56)
and and four is just it's like you know that's gonna feel like a rabbit hole. It's just like

[Speaker 2] (2:11:56 - 2:11:56)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:11:56 - 2:11:56)
too

[Speaker 2] (2:11:56 - 2:11:56)
would

[Speaker 1] (2:11:56 - 2:11:56)
much.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:56 - 2:11:59)
also say not in reaction to house size,

[Speaker 3] (2:11:59 - 2:11:59)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (2:11:59 - 2:12:00)
but in reaction to

[Speaker 2] (2:12:02 - 2:12:05)
The fact that the majority of our town has very small lots,

[Speaker 3] (2:12:06 - 2:12:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:06 - 2:12:13)
um I think once you get three or four units in and they have cars, every uh yard is a parking lot.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:13 - 2:12:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:13 - 2:12:21)
Yeah, but we have we but push back on that we have the open space requirements for permeable surface area and that's not going to change.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:21 - 2:12:21)
And

[Speaker 2] (2:12:21 - 2:12:22)
You can

[Speaker 1] (2:12:22 - 2:12:24)
So then why are we offering stuff that's not going to

[Speaker 3] (2:12:24 - 2:12:24)
you

[Speaker 1] (2:12:24 - 2:12:24)
make can any sense?

[Speaker 3] (2:12:24 - 2:12:26)
you can park on grass to begin with.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:26 - 2:12:27)
No, no, you

[Speaker 3] (2:12:27 - 2:12:27)
Like

[Speaker 2] (2:12:27 - 2:12:27)
can.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:27 - 2:12:31)
someone could make a parking lot in their backyard if it's one unit or they could just make a

[Speaker 2] (2:12:31 - 2:12:31)
paved I

[Speaker 3] (2:12:31 - 2:12:31)
don't patio.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:31 - 2:12:38)
I agree but most people and and people can own six cars or or eight cars, but they're many are not going to.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:38 - 2:12:39)
I think

[Speaker 3] (2:12:39 - 2:12:39)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:12:39 - 2:12:48)
this is I mean that is the one thing I I would I would say if we were in a community with larger lots.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:49 - 2:12:56)
I can start understanding this. But even, you know, the the idea like there's great illustrations in here of these converted homes.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:57 - 2:13:07)
I can think of houses in Marblehead that were large that have been divided up that have large lots and they look like medical centers because all of the cars

[Speaker 1] (2:13:07 - 2:13:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:07 - 2:13:16)
that have to park in their yards. And I don't think it is beneficial to the neighbors. You know, I I think it's a an arguable thing. So I'm not positive.

[Speaker 2] (2:13:17 - 2:13:17)
Um,

[Speaker 2] (2:13:20 - 2:13:23)
yeah, I d I think that's a really hard thing to look at. And

[Speaker 3] (2:13:23 - 2:13:24)
What, parking?

[Speaker 2] (2:13:25 - 2:13:38)
No, i like what does it mean to have four families in a in a house versus two uh I I'm I'm just not sure that that is going to be a town meeting friendly gesture.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:40 - 2:13:43)
You know, I think if our point is to get more housing,

[Speaker 8] (2:13:43 - 2:13:43)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:43 - 2:13:50)
it might be smarter to have an amount that people could I could imagine two family two uh two family house in, you know,

[Speaker 1] (2:13:51 - 2:13:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:51 - 2:14:05)
across the driveway from me. I don't know if I can picture a four family house. Like if if the house in front of me had four families in it that my lifestyle is going to change significantly, my quality of life is going to change significantly. So

[Speaker 3] (2:14:08 - 2:14:08)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:08 - 2:14:11)
I just think if if this is something if our goal is

[Speaker 2] (2:14:14 - 2:14:15)
more housing

[Speaker 2] (2:14:18 - 2:14:21)
opening it too wide could defeat us.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:21 - 2:14:21)
Yep,

[Speaker 2] (2:14:21 - 2:14:21)
And I

[Speaker 3] (2:14:21 - 2:14:22)
I think that's

[Speaker 2] (2:14:22 - 2:14:22)
we might

[Speaker 3] (2:14:22 - 2:14:22)
fair.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:22 - 2:14:35)
be better off saying you know homes could become two family homes and and people can can have a relationship with that but the other thing that's far less likely to have a four

[Speaker 2] (2:14:37 - 2:14:48)
unit house that's owner occupied. It's much more likely to have a four unit house that's an apartment house and then then you're talking about

[Speaker 2] (2:14:49 - 2:14:51)
impact neighborhood impact.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:52 - 2:14:56)
Okay. So that's just an adjusting a unit count, right?

[Speaker 2] (2:14:57 - 2:14:58)
But from a political

[Speaker 3] (2:14:58 - 2:14:58)
4-3 or

[Speaker 2] (2:14:58 - 2:14:59)
standpoint

[Speaker 3] (2:14:59 - 2:14:59)
2.

[Speaker 2] (2:14:59 - 2:15:00)
of like how do you convince a

[Speaker 1] (2:15:00 - 2:15:01)
Yeah, I see. I agree.

[Speaker 2] (2:15:01 - 2:15:02)
community that that risk

[Speaker 1] (2:15:02 - 2:15:02)
I think

[Speaker 2] (2:15:02 - 2:15:03)
is valuable.

[Speaker 1] (2:15:03 - 2:15:14)
that I think that two, you know, converting a single family home to a two family in the same structure is I don't think people are going to feel like they're going to get have an impact.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:14 - 2:15:14)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:15:15 - 2:15:20)
And you're not going to hear people screaming that you're changing single family zoning.

[Speaker 1] (2:15:20 - 2:15:21)
And,

[Speaker 1] (2:15:21 - 2:15:21)
you know,

[Speaker 1] (2:15:22 - 2:15:23)
It's

[Speaker 3] (2:15:23 - 2:15:27)
Well, what would you think of doing

[Speaker 3] (2:15:28 - 2:15:35)
the unit cap of two units with a third unit as an incentive for inclusionary zoning?

[Speaker 1] (2:15:37 - 2:15:39)
No, that's even worse,

[Speaker 3] (2:15:39 - 2:15:40)
Why is that?

[Speaker 1] (2:15:41 - 2:15:43)
because if they,

[Speaker 1] (2:15:43 - 2:15:50)
you know, you're chopping up this, I mean now it's going to feel like an apartment building again. It just starts to feel like an apartment building,

[Speaker 3] (2:15:50 - 2:15:52)
By having three units in a house?

[Speaker 1] (2:15:53 - 2:16:02)
I think two, I mean a two family is just, there's something there that it's just, you know, at three it just changes in

[Speaker 1] (2:16:05 - 2:16:06)
a single family home.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:06 - 2:16:11)
So it's just, I think it's just hard to, to

[Speaker 1] (2:16:13 - 2:16:19)
took a, you know, that, but that one on, on Leningrad Drive or whatever that's called,

[Speaker 1] (2:16:19 - 2:16:21)
I don't know if it's Humphrey going into Limb.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:22 - 2:16:25)
When we were talking about, you know, it's um

[Speaker 1] (2:16:28 - 2:16:28)
even

[Speaker 2] (2:16:28 - 2:16:28)
It was

[Speaker 1] (2:16:28 - 2:16:28)
that

[Speaker 2] (2:16:28 - 2:16:33)
it was also the one that you're saying when the preservation award was also built as a three family.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:34 - 2:16:35)
Yeah, I thought it had

[Speaker 2] (2:16:35 - 2:16:35)
That's

[Speaker 1] (2:16:35 - 2:16:35)
some

[Speaker 2] (2:16:35 - 2:16:37)
a very that's a very lovely triple decker

[Speaker 1] (2:16:38 - 2:16:38)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:16:38 - 2:16:41)
Um it in the sense that it's three flats and

[Speaker 1] (2:16:41 - 2:16:44)
that's what I was going to say. I thought it I didn't think it got

[Speaker 2] (2:16:44 - 2:16:44)
That wasn't

[Speaker 1] (2:16:44 - 2:16:44)
chopped up.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:44 - 2:16:45)
a convertible.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:45 - 2:16:45)
No.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:46 - 2:16:51)
There were a lot of those were multifamily houses and they were stylistically very appealing.

[Speaker 2] (2:16:52 - 2:16:56)
Um, waterfront, you know, but

[Speaker 2] (2:16:57 - 2:16:58)
Um

[Speaker 3] (2:16:59 - 2:17:07)
I'm just not sure... respectfully, I'm not sure I I agree that the three unit thing changes things drastically from a neighbour perspective if we're talking about

[Speaker 1] (2:17:07 - 2:17:07)
It

[Speaker 3] (2:17:07 - 2:17:07)
no

[Speaker 1] (2:17:07 - 2:17:08)
would to me.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:08 - 2:17:10)
no changes to the exterior of the house.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:12 - 2:17:13)
At all.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:13 - 2:17:16)
You're just I mean we're largely talking about large homes here like the

[Speaker 1] (2:17:16 - 2:17:17)
Or

[Speaker 3] (2:17:17 - 2:17:17)
dozens

[Speaker 1] (2:17:17 - 2:17:17)
building a net.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:17 - 2:17:18)
of three

[Speaker 1] (2:17:18 - 2:17:18)
Are we

[Speaker 3] (2:17:18 - 2:17:18)
thousand

[Speaker 1] (2:17:18 - 2:17:18)
going to,

[Speaker 3] (2:17:18 - 2:17:19)
square foot houses

[Speaker 1] (2:17:19 - 2:17:24)
so that's a good question. So how big does the house have to be to go into, you know?

[Speaker 3] (2:17:25 - 2:17:27)
Yeah? What do we want? We can make it whatever we want or

[Speaker 2] (2:17:27 - 2:17:27)
So

[Speaker 3] (2:17:27 - 2:17:28)
don't

[Speaker 2] (2:17:28 - 2:17:28)
here,

[Speaker 3] (2:17:28 - 2:17:28)
want.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:28 - 2:17:32)
if if we want to talk about like if you've got a

[Speaker 2] (2:17:34 - 2:17:35)
you're shifting

[Speaker 1] (2:17:38 - 2:17:39)
I mean, I just retrofitting,

[Speaker 2] (2:17:39 - 2:17:39)
Our A_D_U_s

[Speaker 1] (2:17:39 - 2:17:42)
retrofitting a single family home

[Speaker 2] (2:17:42 - 2:17:42)
are

[Speaker 1] (2:17:42 - 2:17:42)
and

[Speaker 2] (2:17:42 - 2:17:53)
A_D_U_s are are, you know, we if we initially started out with this whole conversation about a nine hundred square foot A_D_U_ and we recognize that as a limited space.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:53 - 2:17:53)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:53 - 2:17:58)
Um and then if you multiply that by three,

[Speaker 3] (2:17:58 - 2:17:59)
Yeah, twenty seven hundred square feet.

[Speaker 2] (2:17:59 - 2:18:01)
you're at twenty seven hundred square feet. And

[Speaker 1] (2:18:01 - 2:18:01)
that

[Speaker 2] (2:18:01 - 2:18:01)
that's

[Speaker 1] (2:18:01 - 2:18:02)
doesn't all account for any

[Speaker 2] (2:18:02 - 2:18:02)
ready.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:02 - 2:18:04)
hallways or entryways

[Speaker 2] (2:18:04 - 2:18:04)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (2:18:04 - 2:18:04)
or anything

[Speaker 2] (2:18:04 - 2:18:04)
but that's

[Speaker 1] (2:18:04 - 2:18:05)
like that.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:05 - 2:18:05)
already

[Speaker 2] (2:18:06 - 2:18:09)
Uh that is not a small house right there.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:09 - 2:18:09)
That

[Speaker 3] (2:18:09 - 2:18:09)
Nope,

[Speaker 2] (2:18:09 - 2:18:10)
is not a small house.

[Speaker 3] (2:18:10 - 2:18:10)
but that

[Speaker 2] (2:18:10 - 2:18:10)
But

[Speaker 3] (2:18:10 - 2:18:14)
still seems to me smaller than the type of home I would think this would work in.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:16 - 2:18:17)
So would

[Speaker 2] (2:18:17 - 2:18:17)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:18:17 - 2:18:17)
you have a

[Speaker 2] (2:18:17 - 2:18:17)
at

[Speaker 1] (2:18:17 - 2:18:17)
minimum

[Speaker 2] (2:18:17 - 2:18:28)
the same area? time, how do we do we do we have an ability to say to someone uh your house is your house is a lot is too small you're too close to your neighbors

[Speaker 1] (2:18:28 - 2:18:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:18:28 - 2:18:32)
this is a dense neighborhood and we don't feel we can

[Speaker 3] (2:18:32 - 2:18:32)
We

[Speaker 2] (2:18:32 - 2:18:32)
comply

[Speaker 1] (2:18:32 - 2:18:32)
can Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:18:32 - 2:18:32)
and you're

[Speaker 1] (2:18:32 - 2:18:32)
so we

[Speaker 3] (2:18:32 - 2:18:33)
strict

[Speaker 1] (2:18:33 - 2:18:33)
can

[Speaker 3] (2:18:33 - 2:18:33)
all

[Speaker 1] (2:18:33 - 2:18:33)
have

[Speaker 3] (2:18:33 - 2:18:33)
that

[Speaker 1] (2:18:33 - 2:18:33)
yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:18:33 - 2:18:33)
to a double

[Speaker 1] (2:18:33 - 2:18:41)
so we could have some um yeah, lot size, we can have standards along with this. You know, you can

[Speaker 5] (2:18:42 - 2:18:47)
do the conver you are eligible or whatever for the conversion, depending on

[Speaker 5] (2:18:49 - 2:18:50)
like the house's size

[Speaker 3] (2:18:51 - 2:18:54)
Right. You could you could you could limit the size to whatever existing size it

[Speaker 1] (2:19:01 - 2:19:05)
you can base your eligibility on any of those factors.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:06 - 2:19:08)
Square footage, lot size, whatever.

[Speaker 3] (2:19:09 - 2:19:09)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:10 - 2:19:16)
And my view on this was not to have everybody at the twenty five hundred square foot house go say hey let's have three

[Speaker 4] (2:19:16 - 2:19:17)
What would be a minimum

[Speaker 1] (2:19:17 - 2:19:17)
eight hundred square

[Speaker 4] (2:19:17 - 2:19:17)
that

[Speaker 1] (2:19:17 - 2:19:18)
foot.

[Speaker 4] (2:19:18 - 2:19:21)
you have in mind for like a minimal size, minimum square

[Speaker 1] (2:19:21 - 2:19:22)
I am

[Speaker 4] (2:19:22 - 2:19:22)
footage?

[Speaker 1] (2:19:22 - 2:19:26)
I am imagining this only being practical to the houses that are already quite

[Speaker 1] (2:19:27 - 2:19:27)
large.

[Speaker 4] (2:19:27 - 2:19:28)
Give me an idea.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:28 - 2:19:31)
The houses on Atlantic Ave going towards Marblehead that

[Speaker 4] (2:19:31 - 2:19:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:31 - 2:19:33)
are four thousand square foot plus and built a hundred years ago.

[Speaker 4] (2:19:34 - 2:19:34)
Yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 5] (2:19:37 - 2:19:37)
But

[Speaker 6] (2:19:41 - 2:19:47)
I'm not sure those are the houses that will turn. You know, that's that's the

[Speaker 1] (2:19:47 - 2:19:47)
Maybe.

[Speaker 6] (2:19:47 - 2:20:06)
question that that I have is like we can we can come up with like guidelines but at the point that houses start coming in that we didn't recognize the guides that we needed, what are the impacts. I mean, I think it has to be really really

[Speaker 4] (2:20:07 - 2:20:07)
I

[Speaker 6] (2:20:07 - 2:20:07)
Possibly

[Speaker 4] (2:20:07 - 2:20:08)
think it's got,

[Speaker 6] (2:20:08 - 2:20:28)
thought through like really thinking about what are our um what are c I don't want to call them case studies but like okay let's look at let's look at these houses and think what what would this what would this mean because I think presenting this like if this has to pass town meeting um

[Speaker 4] (2:20:28 - 2:20:31)
it's a quarter of an acre or larger.

[Speaker 6] (2:20:32 - 2:20:32)
Like

[Speaker 4] (2:20:32 - 2:20:34)
Two to three storeys, three.

[Speaker 4] (2:20:35 - 2:20:41)
Two in a, we ca only have so it can go, so you're saying it can go higher, 'cause we don't have any three story. Unless

[Speaker 6] (2:20:41 - 2:20:42)
But

[Speaker 4] (2:20:42 - 2:20:45)
it's in a two it could be um some A_ threes.

[Speaker 4] (2:20:46 - 2:20:48)
We might have some three stories existing,

[Speaker 6] (2:20:48 - 2:20:48)
It

[Speaker 4] (2:20:48 - 2:20:49)
some grandfathered

[Speaker 1] (2:20:49 - 2:20:50)
depends on how you put all the underlining

[Speaker 6] (2:20:50 - 2:20:50)
what do you

[Speaker 1] (2:20:50 - 2:20:50)
going

[Speaker 6] (2:20:50 - 2:20:51)
call it, three stories.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:51 - 2:20:52)
the dimensionality of it.

[Speaker 4] (2:20:52 - 2:20:53)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:20:53 - 2:20:54)
'Cause

[Speaker 4] (2:20:54 - 2:20:54)
Depends on configuration

[Speaker 7] (2:20:54 - 2:20:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:20:55 - 2:20:57)
of original structure exactly. Um

[Speaker 6] (2:21:00 - 2:21:02)
But I can also think of one story houses.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:03 - 2:21:06)
that it would be logical to be able to split.

[Speaker 8] (2:21:06 - 2:21:06)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:07 - 2:21:09)
So I'm not positive the story thing

[Speaker 1] (2:21:09 - 2:21:11)
I think you would just say the dimensionality is all

[Speaker 4] (2:21:11 - 2:21:12)
No, the dimensions,

[Speaker 1] (2:21:12 - 2:21:12)
underlying existing.

[Speaker 4] (2:21:12 - 2:21:14)
the square footage, the

[Speaker 6] (2:21:14 - 2:21:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:21:14 - 2:21:16)
the most square footage, I guess, you know.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:16 - 2:21:17)
Yeah, I because I like

[Speaker 6] (2:21:19 - 2:21:29)
there's a number of houses, the irony of it, some of a one story house is easier to turn into a two family because of the fact that you you can have ground level entry.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:30 - 2:21:30)
So you're not

[Speaker 4] (2:21:30 - 2:21:30)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:30 - 2:21:34)
dealing with secondary egress, you're not dealing with drop-in um

[Speaker 4] (2:21:34 - 2:21:34)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:34 - 2:21:36)
you know fire escapes and

[Speaker 6] (2:21:37 - 2:21:40)
everything else that you might have to on a on a um multi-family house.

[Speaker 4] (2:21:40 - 2:21:41)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:41 - 2:21:42)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:43 - 2:21:53)
Because, you know, most of most houses many houses are single staircase. If you put a unit on the second floor

[Speaker 6] (2:21:54 - 2:21:57)
You're you're having to figure out a second ingress out of it.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:58 - 2:22:19)
So you can see in the presentation here, there's one two three four five cellshore towns that adopted theoretical zoning like this with a bunch of different permitting agency authorities and different restrictions. And then two pages later outside of that geography of the cellshore there's Abington,

[Speaker 1] (2:22:19 - 2:22:21)
Colostar, Holden, Portsmouth.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:22 - 2:22:33)
Similar zoning, just different triggers that they use, different approving authorities. I write special permit, whatever. Um but the different examples that they use for that. The

[Speaker 1] (2:22:35 - 2:22:45)
I mean my practical case study for this would be some of those houses that you can see on Atlantic Ave or on Humphrey Street further towards our neighbouring town to the north that

[Speaker 1] (2:22:47 - 2:22:48)
are big beautiful homes and

[Speaker 1] (2:22:49 - 2:22:58)
giving them an option to add another dwelling or two or whatever, but without changing absolutely anything from the exterior, unless you have to add another

[Speaker 1] (2:22:59 - 2:23:01)
you know, spot for a car or something.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:02 - 2:23:15)
Um or fire code. I don't think any of the dimensionality should change, any of the underlying zoning should change whatsoever. Um and maybe there is a minimum lot size, maybe there is a minimum gross square footage area, because

[Speaker 1] (2:23:15 - 2:23:19)
To your point, j Jar I don't think it makes sense to have three A_D_ use size

[Speaker 1] (2:23:20 - 2:23:24)
uh places in one building 'cause that's just is kind of

[Speaker 1] (2:23:25 - 2:23:27)
working around triggers that we already have.

[Speaker 1] (2:23:29 - 2:23:31)
But some of these examples might

[Speaker 1] (2:23:32 - 2:23:35)
help illustrate this in practice in terms of zoning.

[Speaker 6] (2:23:58 - 2:23:59)
How, um,

[Speaker 4] (2:24:00 - 2:24:04)
I'm trying to think about Cohasset does an interesting job here.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:04 - 2:24:06)
I think Portsmouth ties their unit count,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:07 - 2:24:09)
and we're not Portsmouth, so I'm not trying to insinuate that,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:09 - 2:24:13)
but Portsmouth ties their unit count to their lot area.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:14 - 2:24:14)
Oh no,

[Speaker 4] (2:24:14 - 2:24:15)
that's Cohasset does too.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:15 - 2:24:16)
District by

[Speaker 1] (2:24:16 - 2:24:16)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:16 - 2:24:21)
district minimum lot size requirement increases as units are added.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:21 - 2:24:21)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:24 - 2:24:24)
So I think we

[Speaker 4] (2:24:24 - 2:24:24)
Duck's

[Speaker 1] (2:24:24 - 2:24:25)
have a lot

[Speaker 4] (2:24:25 - 2:24:33)
Berry's 20,000 square feet. I don't think there are any 20,000 square foot lots. There might be one acre lots, I mean half acre lots.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:33 - 2:24:34)
I don't

[Speaker 1] (2:24:34 - 2:24:34)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:34 - 2:24:34)
know.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:34 - 2:24:46)
I think there are a lot of examples here of triggers that we can create this to be an, I want to say a super narrow use case, but it will create this so it's not having that counterintuitive effect that you mentioned,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:46 - 2:24:46)
Gero.

[Speaker 6] (2:24:46 - 2:24:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:24:47 - 2:24:47)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:47 - 2:24:51)
You know, knowing your neighbourhood, the neighbour across the street turning their

[Speaker 1] (2:24:52 - 2:24:58)
Nice 2500 square foot home into a three unit apartment building on their little postage size lot.

[Speaker 6] (2:24:58 - 2:24:59)
I am uh

[Speaker 6] (2:25:03 - 2:25:06)
The funny part is, I'm in a neighbourhood where this already happened.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:07 - 2:25:07)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:07 - 2:25:11)
So there's there's zones and sections in

[Speaker 1] (2:25:11 - 2:25:13)
And then unhappened. Right, that's what and unhappened.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:13 - 2:25:19)
un happened, but then if you get over like Blaney Street, if you get along uh um

[Speaker 6] (2:25:21 - 2:25:24)
Reddington Street, there's many multiple family

[Speaker 1] (2:25:24 - 2:25:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:24 - 2:25:36)
houses there, um that have been here for years. That I am not like opposed to this, I'm thinking of how this can go south in town meeting

[Speaker 1] (2:25:36 - 2:25:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:36 - 2:25:44)
if it is not done in a way that people, you know, it it this is an incredible trigger for nimbyism.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:44 - 2:25:45)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:45 - 2:25:45)
Um and

[Speaker 9] (2:25:45 - 2:25:46)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:46 - 2:25:48)
it's just a case where

[Speaker 6] (2:25:49 - 2:25:57)
I I I think people are more would be more resistant to this

[Speaker 6] (2:25:58 - 2:26:02)
than IDUs being built in yards.

[Speaker 6] (2:26:03 - 2:26:14)
Like the the backyard getting a the backyard getting a a little building put in it, I think you're gonna have as many people that are gonna worry especially if we go like with larger numbers of units.

[Speaker 6] (2:26:15 - 2:26:18)
um sort of that increasing the human density of it

[Speaker 1] (2:26:18 - 2:26:19)
Mm.

[Speaker 6] (2:26:19 - 2:26:24)
might might trigger it. But I think it's I by no means I'm like asking questions, but

[Speaker 1] (2:26:24 - 2:26:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:26:24 - 2:26:30)
um I think it's do-able with with study and very careful crafting um

[Speaker 4] (2:26:31 - 2:26:32)
Yeah, I do too.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:32 - 2:26:41)
So what's the what's the use case here, and what are the regulatory triggers we can kind of put in here to help alleviate that? I think that for example

[Speaker 1] (2:26:42 - 2:26:46)
unit count tied to lot size, not suggesting we employ that, but that's an interesting trigger

[Speaker 10] (2:26:46 - 2:26:46)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:46 - 2:26:47)
for

[Speaker 4] (2:26:47 - 2:26:51)
It should be because I mean I it makes the mo it makes a lot of sense.

[Speaker 10] (2:26:52 - 2:26:52)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (2:26:52 - 2:26:52)
like because those

[Speaker 10] (2:26:52 - 2:26:55)
you could actually do a lot size analysis Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:26:55 - 2:26:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:55 - 2:26:56)
we talked about that, yeah.

[Speaker 10] (2:26:56 - 2:27:01)
And to see where that it might actually, you know, potentially even be possible.

[Speaker 4] (2:27:01 - 2:27:01)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:01 - 2:27:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 10] (2:27:02 - 2:27:04)
Um you know what area of town.

[Speaker 10] (2:27:05 - 2:27:07)
This could be happening, things like that.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:08 - 2:27:08)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (2:27:08 - 2:27:13)
I mean Elmwood Road's a good example. I mean some of those lots are a little bigger, but still um, you know, it's

[Speaker 1] (2:27:13 - 2:27:13)
But a lot

[Speaker 4] (2:27:13 - 2:27:13)
still

[Speaker 1] (2:27:13 - 2:27:15)
of them are still lot postage size

[Speaker 6] (2:27:15 - 2:27:15)
But yeah, the irony

[Speaker 10] (2:27:15 - 2:27:15)
I think.

[Speaker 4] (2:27:15 - 2:27:16)
yeah,

[Speaker 6] (2:27:16 - 2:27:16)
is

[Speaker 4] (2:27:16 - 2:27:16)
yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:16 - 2:27:18)
like on Elmwood Road,

[Speaker 1] (2:27:18 - 2:27:18)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:18 - 2:27:22)
one of the houses that has a huge double lot.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:23 - 2:27:24)
is also multi-unit already.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:25 - 2:27:25)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (2:27:25 - 2:27:25)
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:25 - 2:27:29)
Um that's one that has a carriage house and then a separate three car garage

[Speaker 1] (2:27:29 - 2:27:30)
Oh.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:30 - 2:27:30)
um

[Speaker 1] (2:27:30 - 2:27:30)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:30 - 2:27:30)
behind

[Speaker 4] (2:27:30 - 2:27:31)
Oh, wow.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:31 - 2:27:35)
it. So that that is one example of a very large lot.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:36 - 2:27:51)
Um the house to the right of that is one that's currently for sale and that's a two that's a two unit very very large square footage. Um good size lot, good amount of parking, but like established.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:52 - 2:28:06)
Um but then there are a number of houses there there is a two family across the street and it has a driveway that has tandem for two cars and that is it was an eight bedroom and a two bedroom.

[Speaker 6] (2:28:07 - 2:28:08)
um and it

[Speaker 1] (2:28:08 - 2:28:08)
That's

[Speaker 6] (2:28:08 - 2:28:09)
has been

[Speaker 1] (2:28:09 - 2:28:09)
a combination.

[Speaker 6] (2:28:09 - 2:28:15)
modified down to to well one one unit they're side by sides and then one had the top floor

[Speaker 1] (2:28:15 - 2:28:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:28:15 - 2:28:19)
with it that was dormered and there were five bedrooms on the top floor

[Speaker 4] (2:28:19 - 2:28:19)
Oh, my God.

[Speaker 6] (2:28:19 - 2:28:23)
and so um you know but that one has that

[Speaker 1] (2:28:23 - 2:28:23)
That's

[Speaker 6] (2:28:23 - 2:28:23)
was

[Speaker 1] (2:28:23 - 2:28:23)
a hand lot.

[Speaker 6] (2:28:23 - 2:28:30)
one has tandem two spots tandem for two units so they are they are street parking and then having to relocate

[Speaker 1] (2:28:30 - 2:28:33)
Which is why I brought up the tandem thing earlier. It's so confusing to me.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:33 - 2:28:33)
using to me

[Speaker 4] (2:28:33 - 2:28:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:33 - 2:28:34)
that we apparently

[Speaker 4] (2:28:34 - 2:28:34)
It's also

[Speaker 1] (2:28:34 - 2:28:35)
allow if that

[Speaker 4] (2:28:35 - 2:28:35)
you're sharing

[Speaker 1] (2:28:35 - 2:28:35)
as a use.

[Speaker 4] (2:28:35 - 2:28:38)
that spot with someone who's not a family member, per

[Speaker 6] (2:28:38 - 2:28:39)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (2:28:39 - 2:28:39)
se.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:39 - 2:28:39)
Well,

[Speaker 6] (2:28:39 - 2:28:39)
I mean, it's

[Speaker 1] (2:28:39 - 2:28:40)
a guy in the other unit?

[Speaker 4] (2:28:40 - 2:28:41)
I mean, you're, yeah,

[Speaker 4] (2:28:41 - 2:28:43)
you have to constantly switch around.

[Speaker 11] (2:28:43 - 2:28:43)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (2:28:43 - 2:28:44)
I mean, you know,

[Speaker 1] (2:28:44 - 2:28:45)
You're gonna end up having somebody park

[Speaker 4] (2:28:45 - 2:28:45)
oh,

[Speaker 1] (2:28:45 - 2:28:45)
on the streets,

[Speaker 4] (2:28:45 - 2:28:46)
it's like

[Speaker 1] (2:28:46 - 2:28:46)
it's

[Speaker 4] (2:28:46 - 2:28:46)
that

[Speaker 1] (2:28:46 - 2:28:46)
easier.

[Speaker 4] (2:28:46 - 2:28:47)
in Boston when we had,

[Speaker 4] (2:28:47 - 2:28:48)
you know.

[Speaker 6] (2:28:48 - 2:28:49)
Yeah, yeah, no that, no it's a good

[Speaker 2] (2:28:50 - 2:28:50)
everybody paid.

[Speaker 3] (2:28:50 - 2:28:54)
it's a lot of places that that it's it's common um

[Speaker 2] (2:28:55 - 2:28:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:57 - 2:29:01)
So I think minimum lot size is something you put in here to to

[Speaker 2] (2:29:01 - 2:29:01)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:29:01 - 2:29:01)
facilitate

[Speaker 2] (2:29:01 - 2:29:01)
I would have,

[Speaker 1] (2:29:01 - 2:29:02)
eligibility.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:02 - 2:29:11)
I'd have a minimum lot size and then, you know, if, I mean to me it's, you know, I'm not comfortable going above two family.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:12 - 2:29:17)
But, you know, I'd listen to what the rest of the board has to say.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:20 - 2:29:27)
This might be too much of a unicorn, but would you be comfortable with three family triggering the inclusionary zoning bylaw if the minimum,

[Speaker 1] (2:29:27 - 2:29:30)
if the lot size for that third unit was more substantial?

[Speaker 2] (2:29:30 - 2:29:40)
Well, how can you do that? So i because you can't make that how would you do that? So if it's the let's say the owner wants to do it, and they want to convert their house.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:40 - 2:29:43)
To the three units they're going to do the work to do that

[Speaker 2] (2:29:44 - 2:29:48)
Okay, maybe they have kids or family knows they just want to you know, they want to keep their home but blah blah blah

[Speaker 2] (2:29:49 - 2:29:53)
And you're going to let them do it if they if they make the third unit affordable?

[Speaker 1] (2:29:54 - 2:29:55)
Or they pay and move. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:56 - 2:29:57)
I mean what's in it for them? Why would they do it?

[Speaker 1] (2:29:57 - 2:30:00)
They get the third w Well, I don't I don't think property

[Speaker 2] (2:30:00 - 2:30:00)
You know.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:00 - 2:30:08)
my opinion is I don't think property owners are gonna be doing this. I think this is people who are gonna buy a property and invest in it and then sell it or rent it I don't I can't imagine property owners are gonna go through this.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:08 - 2:30:10)
Then I think that that

[Speaker 1] (2:30:10 - 2:30:11)
Because otherwise they would bill an ADU.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:11 - 2:30:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:11 - 2:30:14)
But I think that argument is why it should be too.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:14 - 2:30:14)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:30:14 - 2:30:15)
Because

[Speaker 2] (2:30:15 - 2:30:15)
me too,

[Speaker 3] (2:30:15 - 2:30:15)
I think at the

[Speaker 2] (2:30:15 - 2:30:15)
because

[Speaker 3] (2:30:15 - 2:30:15)
point

[Speaker 2] (2:30:15 - 2:30:16)
that that

[Speaker 3] (2:30:16 - 2:30:17)
that this becomes

[Speaker 2] (2:30:17 - 2:30:18)
won't make

[Speaker 3] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
an

[Speaker 2] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
any

[Speaker 3] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
investor

[Speaker 2] (2:30:18 - 2:30:18)
sense.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:18 - 2:30:20)
flipping or,

[Speaker 2] (2:30:20 - 2:30:20)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:20 - 2:30:21)
you know

[Speaker 1] (2:30:21 - 2:30:21)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:21 - 2:30:21)
but

[Speaker 1] (2:30:21 - 2:30:24)
This is all going to be investor flipping. I would be shocked if anybody else

[Speaker 3] (2:30:24 - 2:30:24)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:30:24 - 2:30:25)
Right? It's just not going to be you.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:25 - 2:30:26)
But And it's

[Speaker 3] (2:30:26 - 2:30:26)
I

[Speaker 2] (2:30:26 - 2:30:29)
going think to be two enormously expensive units. It

[Speaker 3] (2:30:29 - 2:30:29)
Yeah, I

[Speaker 2] (2:30:29 - 2:30:30)
just

[Speaker 1] (2:30:30 - 2:30:30)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:30 - 2:30:31)
think realistically

[Speaker 1] (2:30:32 - 2:30:35)
But isn't that better than one enormously expensive unit, enormously

[Speaker 3] (2:30:35 - 2:30:36)
No,

[Speaker 1] (2:30:36 - 2:30:36)
even more expensive

[Speaker 2] (2:30:36 - 2:30:37)
Not really.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:37 - 2:30:37)
unit?

[Speaker 3] (2:30:37 - 2:30:43)
no, because it all it does is increase our population without increasing affordable housing. So what are our goals?

[Speaker 1] (2:30:44 - 2:30:48)
To increase the housing supply, because that's why we're in this crisis to begin with, because we don't have enough housing units.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:48 - 2:30:48)
But the thing

[Speaker 1] (2:30:48 - 2:30:48)
And is, we're

[Speaker 3] (2:30:48 - 2:30:49)
though,

[Speaker 1] (2:30:49 - 2:30:51)
told that we need a permit twenty five thousand in housing

[Speaker 3] (2:30:51 - 2:30:51)
what if

[Speaker 1] (2:30:51 - 2:30:52)
units a year and we've been

[Speaker 3] (2:30:52 - 2:30:52)
Yeah, but if but

[Speaker 2] (2:30:52 - 2:30:53)
can't. We don't

[Speaker 3] (2:30:53 - 2:30:53)
if we

[Speaker 2] (2:30:53 - 2:30:54)
have the and land.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:54 - 2:30:54)
uh

[Speaker 2] (2:30:54 - 2:30:54)
What are we gonna do,

[Speaker 1] (2:30:54 - 2:30:55)
Hold on.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:55 - 2:30:56)
build out in the ocean?

[Speaker 1] (2:30:56 - 2:30:56)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:30:56 - 2:30:56)
No,

[Speaker 1] (2:30:56 - 2:30:57)
understand

[Speaker 3] (2:30:57 - 2:30:57)
but if

[Speaker 1] (2:30:57 - 2:31:00)
that we don't, but we have the ability to control our growth through zoning.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:00 - 2:31:03)
through things like this or not and just

[Speaker 1] (2:31:04 - 2:31:06)
continue to have high price homes that

[Speaker 1] (2:31:07 - 2:31:07)
we throw

[Speaker 3] (2:31:07 - 2:31:07)
I don't

[Speaker 1] (2:31:07 - 2:31:08)
our hands up

[Speaker 3] (2:31:08 - 2:31:08)
know, I'd still,

[Speaker 1] (2:31:08 - 2:31:08)
in.

[Speaker 3] (2:31:08 - 2:31:19)
I mean I'd still, I can't look at saying a house on Atlantic Avenue turned into four really expensive condominiums is going to somehow

[Speaker 3] (2:31:20 - 2:31:34)
open up affordable housing in our town. I I just I don't see it and if if you're basically saying this is going to be attractive to developers, all we're doing is making pushing our housing prices up not down.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:36 - 2:31:36)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:31:36 - 2:31:37)
I think that's

[Speaker 4] (2:31:37 - 2:31:37)
I don't see

[Speaker 1] (2:31:37 - 2:31:37)
counterintuitive

[Speaker 4] (2:31:37 - 2:31:37)
value.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:37 - 2:31:40)
to like the general supply and demand argument about

[Speaker 4] (2:31:40 - 2:31:40)
It

[Speaker 1] (2:31:40 - 2:31:41)
how

[Speaker 2] (2:31:41 - 2:31:41)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (2:31:41 - 2:31:41)
is

[Speaker 1] (2:31:41 - 2:31:41)
things

[Speaker 2] (2:31:41 - 2:31:41)
it isn't.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:41 - 2:31:41)
they

[Speaker 4] (2:31:41 - 2:31:41)
if this

[Speaker 1] (2:31:41 - 2:31:42)
begin with.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:42 - 2:31:42)
isn't supply and demand.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:42 - 2:31:43)
Well, yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:31:43 - 2:31:43)
Because

[Speaker 2] (2:31:43 - 2:31:43)
because we

[Speaker 1] (2:31:43 - 2:31:43)
we don't have

[Speaker 2] (2:31:43 - 2:31:44)
say

[Speaker 1] (2:31:44 - 2:31:44)
enough supply

[Speaker 2] (2:31:44 - 2:31:44)
that all

[Speaker 1] (2:31:44 - 2:31:44)
though.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:44 - 2:31:51)
the time, and then we just have, you know, all we have is we build apartments and we just have more expensive apartments.

[Speaker 3] (2:31:52 - 2:31:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:52 - 2:31:57)
More expensive apartments is better than less apartments that are driven up even higher because we have a high demand.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:58 - 2:31:59)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (2:31:59 - 2:31:59)
And

[Speaker 2] (2:31:59 - 2:31:59)
you

[Speaker 1] (2:31:59 - 2:31:59)
that's what

[Speaker 2] (2:31:59 - 2:31:59)
let

[Speaker 1] (2:31:59 - 2:31:59)
MAPC

[Speaker 2] (2:31:59 - 2:32:00)
me,

[Speaker 1] (2:32:00 - 2:32:03)
tells us, that's what the st that's what everyone tells us. And I'm not saying

[Speaker 2] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03)
You

[Speaker 1] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03)
we should

[Speaker 2] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03)
know why,

[Speaker 1] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03)
go build everything

[Speaker 2] (2:32:03 - 2:32:04)
why I

[Speaker 1] (2:32:04 - 2:32:04)
everywhere.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:04 - 2:32:12)
have the apartments along Revere Beach empty. All those buildings say for rent for every single building says for rent. And and I

[Speaker 3] (2:32:13 - 2:32:15)
Because they're four thousand, five

[Speaker 2] (2:32:15 - 2:32:15)
they're

[Speaker 3] (2:32:15 - 2:32:15)
thousand

[Speaker 2] (2:32:15 - 2:32:15)
they're

[Speaker 3] (2:32:15 - 2:32:16)
dollars a

[Speaker 2] (2:32:16 - 2:32:16)
a fortune,

[Speaker 3] (2:32:16 - 2:32:16)
month.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:16 - 2:32:18)
they're a fortune. And and that's

[Speaker 1] (2:32:18 - 2:32:18)
But

[Speaker 2] (2:32:18 - 2:32:19)
what you're gonna,

[Speaker 1] (2:32:19 - 2:32:19)
there's

[Speaker 2] (2:32:19 - 2:32:19)
you know.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:19 - 2:32:23)
broader conversations of why those are probably available than

[Speaker 1] (2:32:24 - 2:32:25)
we're gonna get into the small stuff.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:25 - 2:32:33)
I'm just saying there's a lot of units out there, even the ship right on the Linway, the one across the street and back of um

[Speaker 2] (2:32:34 - 2:32:35)
It used to be some restaurant or

[Speaker 3] (2:32:35 - 2:32:35)
I

[Speaker 2] (2:32:35 - 2:32:35)
night

[Speaker 3] (2:32:35 - 2:32:35)
I

[Speaker 5] (2:32:35 - 2:32:36)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:36 - 2:32:36)
club.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:36 - 2:32:41)
really don't think we have a housing crisis for the rich. I'll be frank with you. I don't think that that's the

[Speaker 1] (2:32:41 - 2:32:41)
I think

[Speaker 3] (2:32:41 - 2:32:41)
problem.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:41 - 2:32:47)
there's a housing crisis for everybody regardless of how much money you have. And that's why we're in this problem to begin with.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:47 - 2:32:47)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (2:32:47 - 2:32:47)
That's what but everyone

[Speaker 2] (2:32:47 - 2:32:47)
it's

[Speaker 1] (2:32:47 - 2:32:48)
has told

[Speaker 2] (2:32:48 - 2:32:54)
not me. just that we're not making enough houses is that the price of building, the price of land is too expensive. The price

[Speaker 3] (2:32:54 - 2:32:54)
of Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:54 - 2:32:54)
building

[Speaker 5] (2:32:54 - 2:32:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:54 - 2:32:56)
supplies is too expensive.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:56 - 2:32:56)
But I I

[Speaker 2] (2:32:56 - 2:32:56)
The price

[Speaker 3] (2:32:56 - 2:32:56)
I

[Speaker 2] (2:32:56 - 2:32:57)
to construct a home.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:57 - 2:32:57)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:32:57 - 2:32:57)
just

[Speaker 1] (2:32:57 - 2:32:57)
completely

[Speaker 2] (2:32:57 - 2:32:58)
It's

[Speaker 3] (2:32:58 - 2:32:58)
agree

[Speaker 2] (2:32:58 - 2:32:58)
they do not

[Speaker 1] (2:32:58 - 2:32:58)
respect

[Speaker 3] (2:32:58 - 2:32:58)
with you.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:58 - 2:32:58)
agree.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:58 - 2:32:59)
like what all of

[Speaker 2] (2:32:59 - 2:32:59)
they're

[Speaker 3] (2:32:59 - 2:32:59)
that.

[Speaker 5] (2:32:59 - 2:32:59)
If

[Speaker 2] (2:32:59 - 2:32:59)
doing is.

[Speaker 5] (2:32:59 - 2:33:00)
you're-

[Speaker 2] (2:33:00 - 2:33:00)
If Sweet.

[Speaker 6] (2:33:00 - 2:33:01)
if you're having a hard

[Speaker 2] (2:33:01 - 2:33:01)
Outdoor

[Speaker 6] (2:33:01 - 2:33:01)
time on

[Speaker 2] (2:33:01 - 2:33:01)
housing.

[Speaker 6] (2:33:01 - 2:33:06)
the committee with that as a as a selling point, what are we going to do at town meeting?

[Speaker 1] (2:33:06 - 2:33:08)
With all due respect, Angela, I think you just made the point.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:09 - 2:33:13)
We're having a hard time producing housing because the cost of land is too expensive and the cost of construction Right. is too expensive.

[Speaker 2] (2:33:13 - 2:33:15)
How do we bring that down?

[Speaker 1] (2:33:15 - 2:33:22)
You allow you share the cost of land acquisition and construction acquisition across multiple units on the same property.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:22 - 2:33:25)
That's how you divide the acquisition and the construction costs across multiple units.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:26 - 2:33:29)
And it's the same thing why someone with a special permit for an

[Speaker 2] (2:33:29 - 2:33:29)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:33:29 - 2:33:29)
eight-unit

[Speaker 2] (2:33:29 - 2:33:30)
they're not

[Speaker 1] (2:33:30 - 2:33:30)
parcel

[Speaker 2] (2:33:30 - 2:33:30)
going to and be

[Speaker 1] (2:33:30 - 2:33:30)
an

[Speaker 2] (2:33:30 - 2:33:30)
getting

[Speaker 1] (2:33:30 - 2:33:35)
A1, A2 is able to do it, because they're able to c attribute that cost across eight units rather than one.

[Speaker 1] (2:33:36 - 2:33:42)
And that's the same thing we're trying to we're looking I am proposing we think about doing here is that we're sharing those costs

[Speaker 2] (2:33:42 - 2:33:43)
But how does

[Speaker 1] (2:33:43 - 2:33:43)
among

[Speaker 2] (2:33:43 - 2:33:43)
it help

[Speaker 1] (2:33:43 - 2:33:43)
a broader

[Speaker 2] (2:33:43 - 2:33:43)
anyone?

[Speaker 1] (2:33:43 - 2:33:44)
number of units.

[Speaker 2] (2:33:44 - 2:34:00)
It just gets people what I see is people get trapped. I understand, you know, theoretically that makes sense. You know, literally that makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is now you have, you know, instead of having,

[Speaker 2] (2:34:00 - 2:34:01)
you know...

[Speaker 2] (2:34:02 - 2:34:17)
that it's not it this is not going to matter the people that are looking for that type of apartment they can get an apartment anywhere they're not house starved they're not so we're not creating the kind of housing that we actually need for people there

[Speaker 1] (2:34:17 - 2:34:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:17 - 2:34:19)
I mean I feel like we get people trapped

[Speaker 2] (2:34:20 - 2:34:36)
in these uber expensive rental situation and they can't get out they can't you know you're spending four thousand a month on rent how the hell are you going to save any money for a mortgage ever when you know an apartment costs over a million dollars

[Speaker 1] (2:34:36 - 2:34:42)
Ten years ago, don't you think somebody would have don't you think we would have this do you think we've been having the same conversation at ten years ago?

[Speaker 1] (2:34:43 - 2:34:45)
They were proposing the same sort of thing

[Speaker 1] (2:34:45 - 2:34:50)
if ten years ago they made more housing units that we'd be saying oh they're million dollar units still ten years later.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:51 - 2:35:04)
Isn't that why we're in this exact problem because not enough units were permitted in the past and now we're trying to permit it now. And it might be too expensive now, but in a year later it's gonna be less than the new units they're permitting then. In a year after that, it's the same thing.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:05 - 2:35:28)
So are we just going to continue to say okay we're not going to we're only going to continue to permit this type of house in this single way and we're not going to permit anything else or allow for any type of other housing to be created? 'Cause then we're just perpetuating the same problem. And we're gonna sit here, respectfully, discussing how housing is too expensive, but we're not doing anything to allow development that will reduce the cost of housing over the long term. And I agree,

[Speaker 3] (2:35:28 - 2:35:28)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:35:28 - 2:35:28)
these are

[Speaker 3] (2:35:28 - 2:35:28)
think

[Speaker 1] (2:35:28 - 2:35:29)
probably

[Speaker 3] (2:35:29 - 2:35:29)
there

[Speaker 1] (2:35:29 - 2:35:29)
million

[Speaker 3] (2:35:29 - 2:35:29)
have to

[Speaker 1] (2:35:29 - 2:35:29)
dollar

[Speaker 3] (2:35:29 - 2:35:29)
be yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:35:29 - 2:35:30)
units tomorrow.

[Speaker 3] (2:35:30 - 2:35:33)
but I think there have to be ass incentives

[Speaker 6] (2:35:34 - 2:35:38)
considered to encourage a type of development.

[Speaker 6] (2:35:39 - 2:35:50)
And I mean this opening this up, I think what we do end up doing is we open up a situation where we are not having homes purchased up by

[Speaker 6] (2:35:51 - 2:36:01)
Individuals, we have them purchased up by developers that are looking to turn a profit, that are creating more expensive housing. So d Is this I would say I

[Speaker 2] (2:36:01 - 2:36:01)
If

[Speaker 6] (2:36:01 - 2:36:02)
would

[Speaker 2] (2:36:02 - 2:36:02)
they have

[Speaker 6] (2:36:02 - 2:36:02)
I would

[Speaker 2] (2:36:02 - 2:36:03)
to acquire it at business

[Speaker 6] (2:36:03 - 2:36:03)
go with

[Speaker 2] (2:36:03 - 2:36:03)
price.

[Speaker 6] (2:36:03 - 2:36:08)
you on this if we said but if you turn your house this way it has to be affordable housing.

[Speaker 3] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
And

[Speaker 3] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
then

[Speaker 1] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
it then

[Speaker 3] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
what

[Speaker 1] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
it

[Speaker 3] (2:36:09 - 2:36:09)
happens?

[Speaker 1] (2:36:09 - 2:36:15)
has to be affordable housing. And then you would get none of this done if you were requiring this to be all inclusionary

[Speaker 3] (2:36:15 - 2:36:15)
No,

[Speaker 1] (2:36:15 - 2:36:15)
zoning.

[Speaker 3] (2:36:15 - 2:36:15)
no. But

[Speaker 1] (2:36:15 - 2:36:16)
You're not going I'm to have anything done because it just makes,

[Speaker 3] (2:36:16 - 2:36:17)
saying,

[Speaker 1] (2:36:17 - 2:36:17)
you don't make a profit on

[Speaker 3] (2:36:17 - 2:36:21)
I'm saying this is this is the thing that's difficult about it is like, I am just not,

[Speaker 3] (2:36:21 - 2:36:26)
I am not completely I know that these reports are out there. I'm just not positive.

[Speaker 3] (2:36:26 - 2:36:29)
There's always reports out there.

[Speaker 3] (2:36:30 - 2:36:32)
Addressing this in

[Speaker 6] (2:36:36 - 2:36:38)
This is standing, right,

[Speaker 1] (2:36:38 - 2:36:38)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:36:38 - 2:36:41)
in A_ three and A_ four by right.

[Speaker 6] (2:36:42 - 2:36:44)
And yet it's not happening.

[Speaker 6] (2:36:45 - 2:36:52)
So if we ope that like am I understanding that like we do what we do not see a lot of conversion

[Speaker 6] (2:36:52 - 2:36:56)
from single family into multiple family in A_ three and A_ four in our town.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:57 - 2:36:59)
It's by right, so it doesn't really come before us for special permit.

[Speaker 6] (2:37:00 - 2:37:05)
No, but w I think we need to look at how much of this is happening in A3 and A4

[Speaker 1] (2:37:05 - 2:37:07)
I think Chris I can pull that next

[Speaker 6] (2:37:07 - 2:37:07)
to

[Speaker 2] (2:37:07 - 2:37:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:07 - 2:37:07)
for

[Speaker 6] (2:37:07 - 2:37:07)
to

[Speaker 1] (2:37:07 - 2:37:07)
the work.

[Speaker 6] (2:37:07 - 2:37:21)
have an understanding of it, like okay, so is this we do see things like uh uh uh the house that we looked at off off of Burpee that is being demolished and and we're getting a two unit house there. We're g we're seeing things like that.

[Speaker 6] (2:37:22 - 2:37:22)
But

[Speaker 2] (2:37:22 - 2:37:24)
The one on Pittman that we just got.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:24 - 2:37:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:24 - 2:37:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:37:24 - 2:37:27)
And the one on Pitman. Yeah. So it does, it is happening.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:27 - 2:37:27)
Um

[Speaker 1] (2:37:28 - 2:37:28)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:37:29 - 2:37:29)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:37:30 - 2:37:31)
And that we only saw because of

[Speaker 7] (2:37:31 - 2:37:31)
Yeah, we

[Speaker 1] (2:37:31 - 2:37:33)
the square footage trigger not

[Speaker 2] (2:37:33 - 2:37:33)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:33 - 2:37:34)
for any other reason.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:34 - 2:37:34)
Yeah. Yeah, I understood.

[Speaker 3] (2:37:34 - 2:37:43)
But, but the thing that I'm just one, I just, I think that before we try to bring this in town, town meeting, I think just as you said on the last one,

[Speaker 3] (2:37:43 - 2:37:48)
we have to be really cognizant of what

[Speaker 6] (2:37:50 - 2:37:54)
what we bring to town meeting, so that people aren't like, bah.

[Speaker 6] (2:37:54 - 2:38:14)
And I mean I'm, it sounds like I'm reacting that way. I'm not. I am reacting like I am not finding this to be convincing and I'm trained in architecture and I work in residential work. I, I just I I'm I'm somehow saying we are somehow mending the housing crisis in town.

[Speaker 6] (2:38:15 - 2:38:17)
By allowing this an A1 and A2,

[Speaker 6] (2:38:18 - 2:38:18)
I I

[Speaker 1] (2:38:18 - 2:38:18)
Yeah,

[Speaker 6] (2:38:18 - 2:38:18)
just not

[Speaker 1] (2:38:18 - 2:38:18)
I don't

[Speaker 6] (2:38:18 - 2:38:19)
necessarily

[Speaker 1] (2:38:19 - 2:38:20)
think I would ever say that we're mending

[Speaker 8] (2:38:20 - 2:38:20)
I have

[Speaker 1] (2:38:20 - 2:38:20)
public places.

[Speaker 8] (2:38:20 - 2:38:25)
a few thoughts on that. And, you know, today this is all just for discussion.

[Speaker 8] (2:38:26 - 2:38:32)
And that's the whole point of having this conversation tonight. And by the time any of this gets to town meeting,

[Speaker 8] (2:38:32 - 2:38:34)
it will be completely flushed out.

[Speaker 8] (2:38:34 - 2:38:40)
And also I think we have to think about how we're going to frame it, right? That's really,

[Speaker 8] (2:38:40 - 2:38:43)
really important because leading up to town meeting.

[Speaker 8] (2:38:44 - 2:38:44)
you we would want

[Speaker 1] (2:38:46 - 2:39:03)
We would have, you know, all of that agreed upon before we even start that part of the process. So it's, you know, how are we introducing this topic to people and whether that's, you know, people who are aging in place in Swampscott.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:04 - 2:39:13)
you know, are in these larger, older homes and you know, they're upset cause their children, who are millennials, can't afford to live in Swampscott.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:13 - 2:39:22)
You know, so h introducing those smaller types of housing that you can buy. Um things like that. It's it's a way of framing it

[Speaker 2] (2:39:22 - 2:39:22)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:22 - 2:39:23)
that, you know

[Speaker 1] (2:39:24 - 2:39:32)
is something that you know everyone can c can agree with and that that is a way to tackle an issue that people are facing here.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:33 - 2:39:33)
Um

[Speaker 3] (2:39:33 - 2:39:42)
And I think a lot of people are excited about the ADU prospect. I mean I'm I'm working with people right now that that with the ADU permission

[Speaker 1] (2:39:42 - 2:39:42)
But

[Speaker 3] (2:39:42 - 2:39:45)
we're figuring out their carriage house being shifted.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:45 - 2:39:47)
But it's like the potential to buy

[Speaker 1] (2:39:48 - 2:39:55)
you know, a two bedroom condo in a house. You know, it's a little bit different 'cause in ADU you have the the primary residence

[Speaker 3] (2:39:55 - 2:39:55)
The primary

[Speaker 1] (2:39:55 - 2:39:59)
and a secondary residence. So it's opening up more housing options

[Speaker 3] (2:39:59 - 2:39:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:39:59 - 2:40:03)
for people. Yeah, exact. To people who,

[Speaker 1] (2:40:04 - 2:40:04)
you know

[Speaker 1] (2:40:05 - 2:40:14)
want to live in Swampscott, but you know, there aren't necessarily options right now. And I'm not saying it's going to be afford like affordable,

[Speaker 1] (2:40:14 - 2:40:16)
nothing is really affordable these days,

[Speaker 1] (2:40:16 - 2:40:30)
but it's opening up more types of housing options for people you know who want to live in Swampscott. So it's a way of framing it and that's something that we would definitely agree upon you know before this even would be put

[Speaker 1] (2:40:30 - 2:40:31)
you know,

[Speaker 3] (2:40:31 - 2:40:31)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:40:31 - 2:40:47)
in in front of the public and we would agree upon, you know, as a board, what would be recommended, if it's square footage, if it's a lot unit, um and that goes with any of the things on this list, you know, they would get completely fleshed out um before

[Speaker 1] (2:40:48 - 2:41:01)
We started doing community engagement leading up to town meeting, um because that's really important. You don't wanna put something up that people have potentially never seen before, and then they get surprised and react. So um it

[Speaker 3] (2:41:01 - 2:41:03)
Well with with town meeting there will always

[Speaker 1] (2:41:03 - 2:41:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:03 - 2:41:06)
be people that haven't seen it before because they haven't been watching.

[Speaker 1] (2:41:07 - 2:41:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:41:07 - 2:41:07)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:41:07 - 2:41:07)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:07 - 2:41:14)
And it you know that's always it's interesting to see what we can get through town meeting and what we don't get and we being any committee.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:15 - 2:41:23)
that that brings stuff up for the by-law because if you have an articulate misinformed person in town

[Speaker 6] (2:41:23 - 2:41:23)
Okay,

[Speaker 3] (2:41:23 - 2:41:23)
meeting,

[Speaker 6] (2:41:23 - 2:41:24)
they can derail.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:24 - 2:41:24)
that

[Speaker 1] (2:41:24 - 2:41:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:41:24 - 2:41:27)
could be that could be derailed. So I think we just really

[Speaker 1] (2:41:27 - 2:41:27)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:41:27 - 2:41:28)
want to be on top of

[Speaker 6] (2:41:28 - 2:41:37)
And would I would when I I was not suggesting the small scale is gonna solve the housing crisis I was not going to suggest that this is doing that on this board.

[Speaker 6] (2:41:37 - 2:41:39)
I can have that open-ended conversation,

[Speaker 6] (2:41:39 - 2:41:40)
but

[Speaker 6] (2:41:40 - 2:41:48)
To me what this does is a smart growth and this is controlling the growth rather than allowing the growth to be done however it wants,

[Speaker 3] (2:41:48 - 2:41:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:41:48 - 2:41:54)
because that's what we've kind of had is growth happens without strict standards and we've get

[Speaker 1] (2:41:55 - 2:41:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:41:55 - 2:42:02)
the multi-unit buildings that we all talk about off meeting, lamenting the design and saying it looks horrible, why do we get it?

[Speaker 6] (2:42:02 - 2:42:05)
This allows us a very strict regulatory way

[Speaker 3] (2:42:05 - 2:42:05)
It

[Speaker 6] (2:42:05 - 2:42:05)
to

[Speaker 3] (2:42:05 - 2:42:05)
then

[Speaker 6] (2:42:05 - 2:42:07)
do that without

[Speaker 6] (2:42:08 - 2:42:15)
being, in my opinion, overly, it regulates something very strict but allows for something very specific.

[Speaker 7] (2:42:15 - 2:42:15)
So

[Speaker 3] (2:42:15 - 2:42:15)
So

[Speaker 7] (2:42:15 - 2:42:16)
what

[Speaker 3] (2:42:16 - 2:42:16)
let

[Speaker 7] (2:42:16 - 2:42:16)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:42:16 - 2:42:17)
me ask one more question on

[Speaker 7] (2:42:17 - 2:42:17)
No,

[Speaker 3] (2:42:17 - 2:42:17)
this topic.

[Speaker 7] (2:42:17 - 2:42:17)
go ahead.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:17 - 2:42:26)
When this is done, the examples are historically preserved houses. Um

[Speaker 3] (2:42:28 - 2:42:38)
Is there a way for us to then, 'cause we accept up inside the historic district, we have very little control on the aesthetic.

[Speaker 1] (2:42:39 - 2:42:39)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:39 - 2:42:41)
Um so

[Speaker 3] (2:42:43 - 2:42:50)
what th with these I didn't see it in here, but I mean are there controls that we can basically

[Speaker 3] (2:42:50 - 2:42:51)
monitor what

[Speaker 6] (2:42:51 - 2:42:51)
The design

[Speaker 3] (2:42:51 - 2:42:52)
the building

[Speaker 6] (2:42:52 - 2:42:52)
guidelines.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:52 - 2:42:52)
itself looks

[Speaker 8] (2:42:52 - 2:42:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:42:53 - 2:42:55)
like, um because

[Speaker 8] (2:42:55 - 2:42:58)
Well, I thought we said we without any, you know,

[Speaker 6] (2:42:58 - 2:42:59)
Exterior modification.

[Speaker 8] (2:42:59 - 2:43:02)
right, exterior modifications, but it's one thing that

[Speaker 3] (2:43:02 - 2:43:02)
I

[Speaker 8] (2:43:02 - 2:43:02)
brings

[Speaker 3] (2:43:02 - 2:43:03)
hate up to another say this,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:03 - 2:43:03)
point.

[Speaker 3] (2:43:03 - 2:43:05)
but a lot of that is impossible in doing it.

[Speaker 8] (2:43:05 - 2:43:06)
So that's what I was just going to say.

[Speaker 8] (2:43:07 - 2:43:14)
So how many times have we seen, well, over the years, I mean, have we come across any kind of, you know, rehab,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:14 - 2:43:17)
whether it have been, you know, way a hundred years ago,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:17 - 2:43:31)
we were talking about Greenwood Avenue or a lot of the historical stuff that came up where, you know, white court, anything you can even think of where people say it's too expensive for me to to keep this.

[Speaker 8] (2:43:32 - 2:43:39)
you know, outside shell and gut the inside and then have to rebuild the plumbing, the heating,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:39 - 2:43:45)
all the separate stuff and have to literally kind of reconfigure everything inside,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:45 - 2:43:53)
you know, a very prescribed envelope that, right? It makes the construction way more expensive.

[Speaker 8] (2:43:54 - 2:43:55)
And that's why we,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:55 - 2:43:59)
you know, nobody wants to do adaptive reuse for the same reason,

[Speaker 8] (2:43:59 - 2:44:02)
because they don't want to deal with something old.

[Speaker 8] (2:44:02 - 2:44:10)
So I feel like that's, you know, it will make the building of it even more expensive because,

[Speaker 8] (2:44:10 - 2:44:17)
you know, no one who actually wants to do it to preserve the outside of the house is going to bother doing it.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:19 - 2:44:32)
But I mean it's just a case where I think that that has to be we have to figure out how to really secure that. Because even with the guidelines that we gave on the property on on Humphrey Street, they haven't followed the plans.

[Speaker 6] (2:44:32 - 2:44:33)
Well,

[Speaker 3] (2:44:33 - 2:44:33)
They the

[Speaker 6] (2:44:33 - 2:44:35)
have no worries, they'll be before us next month. So

[Speaker 8] (2:44:35 - 2:44:37)
Who who are you talking about?

[Speaker 3] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
Uh

[Speaker 6] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
For the

[Speaker 3] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
the one

[Speaker 6] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
corner

[Speaker 8] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
Oh.

[Speaker 6] (2:44:37 - 2:44:37)
of Humphrey.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:37 - 2:44:39)
near the corner ninety one Humphrey Street.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:39 - 2:44:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:44:39 - 2:44:40)
Oh that yes.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:40 - 2:44:42)
I mean it is the elevations aren't followed.

[Speaker 6] (2:44:42 - 2:44:42)
What's that?

[Speaker 8] (2:44:42 - 2:44:45)
No, everything's off. It looks at to me it looks like everything's

[Speaker 3] (2:44:45 - 2:44:46)
Hey,

[Speaker 8] (2:44:46 - 2:44:46)
off.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:46 - 2:44:47)
there's no trim on windows.

[Speaker 6] (2:44:47 - 2:44:47)
Conversation.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:47 - 2:44:47)
Or standard

[Speaker 8] (2:44:47 - 2:44:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:48 - 2:44:48)
channels.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:48 - 2:44:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:44:48 - 2:44:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:44:49 - 2:44:53)
And we need it and they never were going to do that. It was always going to be too expensive and

[Speaker 3] (2:44:54 - 2:44:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:44:54 - 2:44:57)
Well, But they will be coming before us, I think, in the very near future.

[Speaker 3] (2:44:57 - 2:44:59)
On what topic? Expansion, again?

[Speaker 6] (2:44:59 - 2:45:05)
Their site plan special permit mandated they come back within twelve months if they did not start phase

[Speaker 1] (2:45:05 - 2:45:05)
For

[Speaker 6] (2:45:05 - 2:45:05)
two.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:05 - 2:45:07)
a development impact statement.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:07 - 2:45:07)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:45:08 - 2:45:11)
Administrative review. So it'll be on the agenda.

[Speaker 8] (2:45:11 - 2:45:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:13 - 2:45:15)
Back to the exterior modification,

[Speaker 6] (2:45:15 - 2:45:21)
I think the intent of that is more so you don't have two front doors on a building that didn't have two front doors on it before.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:21 - 2:45:23)
Things of that nature.

[Speaker 9] (2:45:23 - 2:45:26)
That's going to happen here too, right? Everybody's going to want two front doors now.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:28 - 2:45:30)
Well you would just have to mandate they can't do that.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:31 - 2:45:33)
That's what the intent would be.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:33 - 2:45:34)
Or the thought would be.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:35 - 2:45:40)
Right, 'cause you want it to look and feel like a single family home, not two family or whatever size home.

[Speaker 8] (2:45:40 - 2:45:40)
Mm.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:42 - 2:45:45)
I don't know how that works on the internal. I know there's diagrams on here of

[Speaker 8] (2:45:46 - 2:45:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:45:47 - 2:45:53)
Uh look like they have this single thing, but then it got gutted and they split up that. I mean it it's definitely gutted.

[Speaker 6] (2:45:54 - 2:45:54)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (2:45:54 - 2:45:55)
But

[Speaker 6] (2:45:55 - 2:45:56)
Oh, it absolutely has to be.

[Speaker 8] (2:45:57 - 2:46:03)
Yeah. But this is a nice neat little box and a lot of them aren't gonna look like that. Well maybe.

[Speaker 8] (2:46:03 - 2:46:07)
I could be wrong about that actually. I'll take it back.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:12 - 2:46:14)
So for next steps here,

[Speaker 1] (2:46:14 - 2:46:14)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:14 - 2:46:19)
is it worth Krista pulling zoning from other towns, specific zoning language,

[Speaker 1] (2:46:21 - 2:46:22)
Best practices.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:22 - 2:46:23)
of best practices?

[Speaker 8] (2:46:24 - 2:46:27)
Yeah, I'd like to see that if we can.

[Speaker 8] (2:46:33 - 2:46:33)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:46:33 - 2:46:33)
Thank you.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:33 - 2:46:37)
I maybe we can also grab more specific examples I know I told you I'd help you

[Speaker 1] (2:46:37 - 2:46:37)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:37 - 2:46:38)
we worked on that but

[Speaker 1] (2:46:38 - 2:46:39)
Yeah, we've got the

[Speaker 6] (2:46:39 - 2:46:39)
my

[Speaker 1] (2:46:39 - 2:46:39)
there's

[Speaker 6] (2:46:39 - 2:46:40)
life got away

[Speaker 1] (2:46:40 - 2:46:40)
the from Abington

[Speaker 6] (2:46:40 - 2:46:40)
me this week

[Speaker 1] (2:46:40 - 2:46:42)
Gloucester Holt and Portsmouth.

[Speaker 9] (2:46:44 - 2:46:50)
How about the inventory of what how many lots are over?

[Speaker 1] (2:46:50 - 2:46:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:51 - 2:46:53)
We're hoping to get that soon.

[Speaker 1] (2:46:53 - 2:46:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 6] (2:46:53 - 2:46:54)
It's

[Speaker 1] (2:46:54 - 2:46:54)
I'm

[Speaker 6] (2:46:54 - 2:46:54)
a broader

[Speaker 1] (2:46:54 - 2:46:56)
waiting on the software to be

[Speaker 6] (2:46:56 - 2:46:57)
You're subscribing costs

[Speaker 1] (2:46:57 - 2:46:58)
able to do this.

[Speaker 6] (2:46:58 - 2:46:58)
that we have

[Speaker 8] (2:46:58 - 2:46:58)
Well,

[Speaker 6] (2:46:58 - 2:46:58)
to figure

[Speaker 8] (2:46:58 - 2:46:59)
that's

[Speaker 6] (2:46:59 - 2:46:59)
out great. how to

[Speaker 1] (2:47:00 - 2:47:01)
But

[Speaker 6] (2:47:01 - 2:47:01)
Paperwork.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:01 - 2:47:03)
it will be possible, um

[Speaker 8] (2:47:03 - 2:47:03)
That would be fantastic,

[Speaker 1] (2:47:03 - 2:47:04)
hopefully soon.

[Speaker 9] (2:47:04 - 2:47:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:47:04 - 2:47:04)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:47:04 - 2:47:07)
How many um lots are over

[Speaker 9] (2:47:07 - 2:47:08)
Some number,

[Speaker 6] (2:47:08 - 2:47:08)
We're gonna

[Speaker 1] (2:47:08 - 2:47:11)
That's what I can figure out. Um when

[Speaker 6] (2:47:11 - 2:47:11)
What I'm hoping

[Speaker 1] (2:47:11 - 2:47:11)
funding

[Speaker 6] (2:47:11 - 2:47:11)
to

[Speaker 1] (2:47:11 - 2:47:12)
like

[Speaker 6] (2:47:12 - 2:47:12)
do

[Speaker 1] (2:47:12 - 2:47:12)
reforming

[Speaker 6] (2:47:12 - 2:47:12)
is

[Speaker 1] (2:47:12 - 2:47:12)
lots

[Speaker 6] (2:47:12 - 2:47:13)
what

[Speaker 1] (2:47:13 - 2:47:13)
have any.

[Speaker 6] (2:47:13 - 2:47:19)
I'm hoping to do is have the ability to say X amount of lots are between zero and twenty five hundred

[Speaker 8] (2:47:19 - 2:47:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:47:19 - 2:47:20)
square feet, X amount are between

[Speaker 8] (2:47:20 - 2:47:20)
Yeah,

[Speaker 6] (2:47:20 - 2:47:21)
twenty five

[Speaker 8] (2:47:21 - 2:47:21)
excellent.

[Speaker 6] (2:47:21 - 2:47:21)
and five thousand,

[Speaker 8] (2:47:21 - 2:47:22)
Yeah, excellent.

[Speaker 6] (2:47:22 - 2:47:23)
all the way up to twenty thousand plus.

[Speaker 8] (2:47:23 - 2:47:24)
Fantastic.

[Speaker 9] (2:47:24 - 2:47:26)
I'm speaking naively here,

[Speaker 9] (2:47:26 - 2:47:26)
but

[Speaker 8] (2:47:32 - 2:47:32)
I don't

[Speaker 6] (2:47:32 - 2:47:32)
I

[Speaker 8] (2:47:32 - 2:47:33)
know that

[Speaker 6] (2:47:33 - 2:47:33)
don't

[Speaker 8] (2:47:33 - 2:47:35)
they'll take pull it up by value like or

[Speaker 9] (2:47:35 - 2:47:40)
So the amounts are there. So if you sort for chicken extract somehow,

[Speaker 9] (2:47:40 - 2:47:40)
like that's

[Speaker 8] (2:47:40 - 2:47:42)
Yeah, that I don't know. I don't know how that

[Speaker 3] (2:47:43 - 2:47:43)
Gotcha.

[Speaker 1] (2:47:43 - 2:47:44)
I guess

[Speaker 8] (2:47:44 - 2:47:44)
Well

[Speaker 1] (2:47:44 - 2:47:44)
pay

[Speaker 8] (2:47:44 - 2:47:44)
I guess if you could find

[Speaker 1] (2:47:44 - 2:47:44)
there's

[Speaker 8] (2:47:44 - 2:47:45)
I think

[Speaker 1] (2:47:45 - 2:47:46)
a way to do it on like

[Speaker 6] (2:47:46 - 2:47:47)
You can check. I didn't

[Speaker 8] (2:47:47 - 2:47:47)
pay

[Speaker 6] (2:47:47 - 2:47:47)
see there

[Speaker 8] (2:47:47 - 2:47:47)
tariffs

[Speaker 6] (2:47:47 - 2:47:47)
was an export,

[Speaker 8] (2:47:47 - 2:47:48)
continued.

[Speaker 6] (2:47:48 - 2:47:48)
but no,

[Speaker 8] (2:47:48 - 2:47:50)
We use what CIA now or something.

[Speaker 6] (2:47:51 - 2:47:52)
I thought we still used Patriot.

[Speaker 8] (2:47:52 - 2:47:58)
We still have the old Patriot card but it's um it's when you go into the GIS isn't it CAI. Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:48:00 - 2:48:03)
So we can look and look at the old Patriot property card, but that

[Speaker 1] (2:48:03 - 2:48:04)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 9] (2:48:04 - 2:48:04)
But it

[Speaker 8] (2:48:04 - 2:48:04)
would

[Speaker 9] (2:48:04 - 2:48:04)
seems

[Speaker 8] (2:48:04 - 2:48:04)
be kind

[Speaker 9] (2:48:04 - 2:48:05)
kind of

[Speaker 8] (2:48:05 - 2:48:05)
old.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:05 - 2:48:11)
Yeah, you can look at the assessor's data in here, but you can't I mean you can do like the notification

[Speaker 8] (2:48:11 - 2:48:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:12 - 2:48:14)
offer, but you can't really do

[Speaker 6] (2:48:14 - 2:48:16)
GIS or just be able to fully assess

[Speaker 1] (2:48:16 - 2:48:16)
analysis.

[Speaker 6] (2:48:16 - 2:48:16)
state

[Speaker 1] (2:48:16 - 2:48:16)
Yeah,

[Speaker 6] (2:48:16 - 2:48:16)
assessor

[Speaker 8] (2:48:16 - 2:48:16)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:48:16 - 2:48:17)
database and filter

[Speaker 8] (2:48:17 - 2:48:18)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:48:18 - 2:48:18)
it by lot size.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:18 - 2:48:20)
Yeah, I would be able to go in and see

[Speaker 8] (2:48:20 - 2:48:21)
And you'd be able, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:21 - 2:48:22)
like all of the

[Speaker 6] (2:48:22 - 2:48:27)
I got halfway there before my chat GPT kind of gave up on me on figuring out how to do it.

[Speaker 9] (2:48:27 - 2:48:27)
What?

[Speaker 8] (2:48:27 - 2:48:27)
Good for you.

[Speaker 6] (2:48:27 - 2:48:28)
But you'll

[Speaker 1] (2:48:28 - 2:48:29)
No, it would be,

[Speaker 6] (2:48:29 - 2:48:29)
do it with your eyes closed

[Speaker 1] (2:48:29 - 2:48:30)
it for would be,

[Speaker 6] (2:48:30 - 2:48:30)
sure.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:30 - 2:48:30)
yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:48:30 - 2:48:32)
it would be simple to do. Um

[Speaker 6] (2:48:32 - 2:48:36)
But we that ability to do that for this purpose is really

[Speaker 8] (2:48:36 - 2:48:37)
Would helpful. be huge.

[Speaker 6] (2:48:37 - 2:48:38)
But for a thousand other purposes

[Speaker 1] (2:48:38 - 2:48:38)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (2:48:38 - 2:48:39)
would be even more helpful.

[Speaker 8] (2:48:39 - 2:48:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:38 - 2:48:39)
it'd be even more helpful

[Speaker 2] (2:48:39 - 2:48:39)
Yep. Agreed.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:39 - 2:48:41)
for not only us, I'm sure

[Speaker 1] (2:48:42 - 2:48:43)
historic and zoning and

[Speaker 2] (2:48:43 - 2:48:43)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:43 - 2:48:44)
other

[Speaker 2] (2:48:44 - 2:48:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:44 - 2:48:44)
boards with

[Speaker 3] (2:48:44 - 2:48:46)
I might just I am also gonna make

[Speaker 1] (2:48:46 - 2:48:46)
What's

[Speaker 3] (2:48:46 - 2:48:46)
just

[Speaker 1] (2:48:46 - 2:48:46)
that?

[Speaker 3] (2:48:46 - 2:48:48)
a a a quick comment about

[Speaker 1] (2:48:48 - 2:48:48)
Seven thousand dollars

[Speaker 3] (2:48:48 - 2:48:49)
I'm

[Speaker 1] (2:48:49 - 2:48:49)
a year.

[Speaker 3] (2:48:49 - 2:48:50)
looking through here and there

[Speaker 1] (2:48:50 - 2:48:50)
Several.

[Speaker 3] (2:48:50 - 2:48:50)
is there

[Speaker 1] (2:48:50 - 2:48:51)
So

[Speaker 3] (2:48:51 - 2:48:52)
is only

[Speaker 3] (2:48:54 - 2:48:57)
a few of these examples that deal with minimum sa lot size.

[Speaker 1] (2:48:58 - 2:48:58)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:48:58 - 2:49:19)
And I think there's a really good reason for that, because I think we could be setting up some substantial inequities as to the value of real estate based on lot size. Um and what I mean by that is uh, you know myself and my next door neighbour, it i hit our lot size does not hit ten thousand.

[Speaker 1] (2:49:19 - 2:49:19)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:19 - 2:49:30)
They're very very small. If that immediately rules us out of being able to subdivide our houses and sell them off as condos, we are at a disadvantage.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:31 - 2:49:32)
property value-wise

[Speaker 1] (2:49:32 - 2:49:32)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:32 - 2:49:38)
over others. Now we we already our property values are already slightly lowered because of our lot sizes,

[Speaker 4] (2:49:38 - 2:49:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:49:38 - 2:49:56)
but at the same time, if this really is about something like the family house and a way for people to keep it, if this is our motivation, and then we throw in a lot size, and then we have someone in town meeting that's like wait a second, you know like we we have to be we have to be really careful, I do like the fact that

[Speaker 3] (2:49:57 - 2:50:00)
they talk about it by um like Cohasset

[Speaker 3] (2:50:02 - 2:50:04)
district by district, minimum

[Speaker 5] (2:50:04 - 2:50:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:04 - 2:50:05)
lot size requirement

[Speaker 5] (2:50:05 - 2:50:05)
Yeah, I

[Speaker 3] (2:50:05 - 2:50:05)
and increase

[Speaker 5] (2:50:05 - 2:50:06)
think that's important.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:06 - 2:50:07)
around it. So

[Speaker 5] (2:50:07 - 2:50:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:07 - 2:50:12)
I think that that sort of having some flexibility and not an arbitrary number, because

[Speaker 5] (2:50:12 - 2:50:12)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:12 - 2:50:18)
whatever number we have, lot sizes do not come in round numbers. Um

[Speaker 6] (2:50:18 - 2:50:18)
That's true.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:18 - 2:50:19)
so if we

[Speaker 3] (2:50:20 - 2:50:25)
Set two thous or ten thousand and someone has a ten thousand and three s or a a

[Speaker 1] (2:50:25 - 2:50:26)
Nine thousand nine.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:26 - 2:50:31)
the reversion, nine hundred nine ninety nine. Oh sorry you're out of luck 'cause it's in the by-law. We

[Speaker 7] (2:50:31 - 2:50:31)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:31 - 2:50:35)
po I think we need to to maybe just really think about

[Speaker 1] (2:50:35 - 2:50:36)
We should think about that. 'Cause

[Speaker 3] (2:50:36 - 2:50:36)
Density,

[Speaker 1] (2:50:36 - 2:50:37)
I hear yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:37 - 2:50:38)
think about um

[Speaker 7] (2:50:38 - 2:50:38)
Mm.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:38 - 2:50:41)
maybe distance between property. There's got

[Speaker 8] (2:50:41 - 2:50:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:50:41 - 2:50:42)
to be some way that

[Speaker 1] (2:50:42 - 2:50:43)
I think we

[Speaker 3] (2:50:43 - 2:50:44)
is fair. I don't think either of those are either.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:45 - 2:50:46)
I think we have an existing d

[Speaker 1] (2:50:46 - 2:50:49)
Distance between multi-family properties in the bylaw somewhere.

[Speaker 9] (2:50:49 - 2:50:50)
Yeah, uh,

[Speaker 1] (2:50:50 - 2:50:50)
Eighty four feet?

[Speaker 9] (2:50:50 - 2:50:51)
forty forty feet.

[Speaker 1] (2:50:51 - 2:50:52)
feet.

[Speaker 9] (2:50:52 - 2:50:54)
On the uh between multi-family properties, right?

[Speaker 1] (2:50:54 - 2:50:55)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 10] (2:50:55 - 2:51:01)
That's also a number of people per square foot too from the woman uh what's

[Speaker 12] (2:51:01 - 2:51:05)
that?

[Speaker 3] (2:51:05 - 2:51:12)
It's so if you've got the distance thing, if I've got a multi-family unit next door to mine, I'm not allowed to benefit from this.

[Speaker 3] (2:51:13 - 2:51:16)
Because of someone else's situation, not

[Speaker 9] (2:51:16 - 2:51:16)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:51:16 - 2:51:19)
my own. I think that it would be hard to defend in court.

[Speaker 9] (2:51:19 - 2:51:21)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:22 - 2:51:30)
I think what you brought up before about the lot size and you being ineligible for having a lot size, that is unfortunate,

[Speaker 1] (2:51:30 - 2:51:32)
and I would be too, both on my property,

[Speaker 1] (2:51:32 - 2:51:38)
but half of zoning is like that. If you live in one side of the street, you're an A1, you live on the other side of the street, you're an A2,

[Speaker 9] (2:51:38 - 2:51:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:38 - 2:51:42)
you're automatically ruled out of a dozen different opportunities.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:44 - 2:51:49)
I agree with you, but then we're getting into a conversation of is zoning even fair to begin with because of things like that. And

[Speaker 3] (2:51:50 - 2:51:51)
Then you look at Houston.

[Speaker 1] (2:51:51 - 2:51:54)
I don't know how you have that conversation in town meeting

[Speaker 3] (2:51:54 - 2:51:54)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (2:51:54 - 2:51:54)
productively.

[Speaker 3] (2:51:54 - 2:51:54)
but i

[Speaker 9] (2:51:54 - 2:51:55)
Right, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:51:55 - 2:52:00)
You know, but that's that's why I think it you know lot size will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

[Speaker 3] (2:52:02 - 2:52:11)
You know, it it's like there's ways to present how something is going to function um that if we if we are so restrictive

[Speaker 3] (2:52:12 - 2:52:17)
Are we eliminating the ability for people to be creative and, you know?

[Speaker 1] (2:52:17 - 2:52:17)
Why?

[Speaker 9] (2:52:17 - 2:52:33)
Well, I mean they always put in a thing about like, you know, just okay for a lot size, okay, between this size and this size and then we could say that we we reserve the the right to grant waver waivers in the event we decide that the purpose of, you know, is

[Speaker 3] (2:52:33 - 2:52:33)
X_Y_Z_

[Speaker 9] (2:52:33 - 2:52:38)
the bylaw is best served by doing this, you know, that kind of thing. And we can grant ourselves

[Speaker 9] (2:52:39 - 2:52:40)
the waiver thing.

[Speaker 3] (2:52:40 - 2:52:40)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 9] (2:52:40 - 2:52:51)
But, you know, under under rare, we can make it sound like a variance, like under rare circumstances the board can, you know, grant a waiver so that we can, but we should have that flexibility,

[Speaker 9] (2:52:51 - 2:52:54)
you know, if we're going down this route with the

[Speaker 1] (2:52:54 - 2:52:59)
I would propose, I agree with that, I would propose that we

[Speaker 1] (2:53:00 - 2:53:05)
Look to some of the other towns mentioned here and just others that we can look to and pull

[Speaker 11] (2:53:05 - 2:53:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:05 - 2:53:13)
best practices from zoning and also any imagery or plans that they might have of permits issued under that zoning. That's

[Speaker 11] (2:53:13 - 2:53:14)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:14 - 2:53:16)
possible and not too strenuous to

[Speaker 11] (2:53:16 - 2:53:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:16 - 2:53:19)
to pull, just for real life use cases of this.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:21 - 2:53:27)
And if we're yeah, I think that would be great. The things that I think we should think about is

[Speaker 1] (2:53:27 - 2:53:31)
Watt size, watt size waiver, minimum watt size waivers.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:32 - 2:53:39)
Unit count, tying unit counts those watt size, not tying unit count period. Um

[Speaker 1] (2:53:42 - 2:53:42)
And then

[Speaker 1] (2:53:44 - 2:53:52)
inclusionary zoning, which may not work here, but I notice there is one example here that had unit size changed if it was inclusionary rather than unit count.

[Speaker 13] (2:53:52 - 2:53:52)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:53 - 2:53:56)
So I haven't thought about that other than

[Speaker 10] (2:53:56 - 2:53:56)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:53:56 - 2:53:59)
just reading it here, but that was an interesting thought. Maybe that plays a role.

[Speaker 9] (2:53:59 - 2:54:13)
So that that makes a lot of sense if like if a developer has purchased a house and they're gonna do that. I mean if that's uh if they find it specifically they're gonna outfit someone else on the single family house so that they can put a bunch of units in it and flip it.

[Speaker 9] (2:54:14 - 2:54:14)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:54:14 - 2:54:14)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 9] (2:54:14 - 2:54:18)
mean I think that that I don't know I is that you know.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:20 - 2:54:23)
It was just a way of looking at it, instead of unit count, it's unit size.

[Speaker 9] (2:54:23 - 2:54:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:23 - 2:54:24)
And how g g you

[Speaker 9] (2:54:24 - 2:54:24)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:24 - 2:54:30)
allow a bigger unit size if one of the units is smaller and but it's deed restricted or something.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:31 - 2:54:31)
I don't

[Speaker 9] (2:54:31 - 2:54:31)
Something, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:31 - 2:54:33)
I don't know. I let's

[Speaker 1] (2:54:34 - 2:54:36)
things to think about perhaps for the next meeting.

[Speaker 3] (2:54:36 - 2:54:47)
And I I also think thinking about the I I personally think Duxbury's principal at least ten years old for the restrictions on age instead of kicking years. Um

[Speaker 10] (2:54:47 - 2:54:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:54:47 - 2:54:52)
because then it moves with a calendar um and there's no real reason.

[Speaker 1] (2:54:52 - 2:54:53)
To the fixed date.

[Speaker 3] (2:54:53 - 2:54:56)
If if the main reason for that age limit

[Speaker 3] (2:54:56 - 2:55:05)
restriction is so people aren't building multi-family units then ten or fifteen years makes sense. No one is gonna build it and then sit down and wait

[Speaker 9] (2:55:06 - 2:55:06)
Well this is to

[Speaker 1] (2:55:06 - 2:55:06)
Right,

[Speaker 9] (2:55:06 - 2:55:07)
this is

[Speaker 1] (2:55:07 - 2:55:07)
I

[Speaker 9] (2:55:07 - 2:55:07)
to

[Speaker 1] (2:55:07 - 2:55:07)
agree.

[Speaker 9] (2:55:07 - 2:55:13)
to kind of you know reconstruct uh an existing home, right? So

[Speaker 9] (2:55:13 - 2:55:18)
It's just not to right to have it and then say a quick next year. I'm gonna flip it and

[Speaker 3] (2:55:18 - 2:55:18)
Yeah,

[Speaker 9] (2:55:18 - 2:55:19)
we'll do this.

[Speaker 3] (2:55:19 - 2:55:21)
but when I when it's like 1963 in

[Speaker 9] (2:55:21 - 2:55:21)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:55:21 - 2:55:27)
this know. district in 1955 in this district, I I think we can know. set a time zone uh a time area

[Speaker 9] (2:55:27 - 2:55:27)
Right exactly

[Speaker 3] (2:55:27 - 2:55:28)
that is

[Speaker 9] (2:55:28 - 2:55:28)
so

[Speaker 3] (2:55:28 - 2:55:29)
like

[Speaker 9] (2:55:29 - 2:55:29)
many years old.

[Speaker 3] (2:55:29 - 2:55:32)
that and then people could then age

[Speaker 9] (2:55:32 - 2:55:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:55:32 - 2:55:33)
into it,

[Speaker 9] (2:55:33 - 2:55:33)
It

[Speaker 3] (2:55:33 - 2:55:33)
you

[Speaker 9] (2:55:33 - 2:55:33)
moves

[Speaker 3] (2:55:33 - 2:55:33)
know. So

[Speaker 9] (2:55:33 - 2:55:34)
with time.

[Speaker 1] (2:55:34 - 2:55:37)
So what were you sugge what does that look like in practice, in theory?

[Speaker 1] (2:55:38 - 2:55:41)
In practice, in theory. What does what are you suggesting?

[Speaker 3] (2:55:42 - 2:55:43)
Did we say a

[Speaker 9] (2:55:43 - 2:55:43)
Oh, at least ten.

[Speaker 3] (2:55:43 - 2:55:45)
ten ten plus year old house

[Speaker 1] (2:55:45 - 2:55:45)
Oh,

[Speaker 3] (2:55:45 - 2:55:45)
or

[Speaker 1] (2:55:45 - 2:55:45)
so

[Speaker 3] (2:55:45 - 2:55:45)
five?

[Speaker 1] (2:55:45 - 2:55:46)
exactly like what Duxbury did.

[Speaker 3] (2:55:46 - 2:55:49)
Like what Duxbury did is logical so that we

[Speaker 1] (2:55:49 - 2:55:49)
Yeah, I

[Speaker 3] (2:55:49 - 2:55:49)
don't

[Speaker 1] (2:55:49 - 2:55:49)
agree.

[Speaker 3] (2:55:49 - 2:55:54)
have some we don't want something like our our what is it the the um

[Speaker 3] (2:55:56 - 2:55:57)
the 90 day

[Speaker 3] (2:55:58 - 2:55:59)
Demolition. Where

[Speaker 1] (2:55:59 - 2:55:59)
I'm

[Speaker 3] (2:55:59 - 2:55:59)
it just

[Speaker 1] (2:55:59 - 2:55:59)
not

[Speaker 3] (2:55:59 - 2:55:59)
gets

[Speaker 1] (2:55:59 - 2:55:59)
demoed

[Speaker 3] (2:55:59 - 2:56:00)
built.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:00 - 2:56:00)
yet.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:00 - 2:56:06)
Uh, the nine month Right. demolition. It just gets built into the process. You're not gonna build ten years into an investment

[Speaker 14] (2:56:06 - 2:56:06)
Uh.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:06 - 2:56:06)
Nope.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:06 - 2:56:06)
process.

[Speaker 9] (2:56:06 - 2:56:06)
Right.

[Speaker 14] (2:56:06 - 2:56:07)
Uh.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:07 - 2:56:07)
Agreed. Okay.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:07 - 2:56:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:08 - 2:56:08)
I misunderstood

[Speaker 9] (2:56:08 - 2:56:08)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:08 - 2:56:08)
But

[Speaker 1] (2:56:08 - 2:56:09)
what your first sentence

[Speaker 3] (2:56:09 - 2:56:09)
yeah, so

[Speaker 1] (2:56:09 - 2:56:09)
meant.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:09 - 2:56:19)
so what I'm saying is if we start saying, you know, pre like some of these, I don't know the reason it's pre nineteen fifty five. Like what's the difference between a nineteen fifty six house and a nineteen I fifty

[Speaker 9] (2:56:19 - 2:56:19)
don't

[Speaker 3] (2:56:19 - 2:56:19)
four know. house.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:19 - 2:56:20)
I'm with you.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:20 - 2:56:22)
Um so if it's something that moves

[Speaker 3] (2:56:23 - 2:56:24)
With the

[Speaker 1] (2:56:24 - 2:56:24)
Mhm.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:24 - 2:56:28)
calendar, it makes sense and someone could be in a house ten years and

[Speaker 1] (2:56:28 - 2:56:28)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:28 - 2:56:34)
maybe they built it when they were sixty and now they wanna have their kids move in and it makes sense to do a subdivision.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:34 - 2:56:36)
Yep, I think that makes sense, I agree.

[Speaker 10] (2:56:36 - 2:56:38)
It still runs right out, just do you need it?

[Speaker 3] (2:56:40 - 2:56:42)
Because it drops the nine hundred square foot limit.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:42 - 2:56:43)
And the utility

[Speaker 3] (2:56:43 - 2:56:44)
And the utility requirement.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:44 - 2:56:45)
being separate.

[Speaker 15] (2:56:46 - 2:56:46)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:50 - 2:56:52)
And because they can also sell it off.

[Speaker 1] (2:56:53 - 2:56:53)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:56:53 - 2:57:00)
Yeah, because the ADU will remain with the principal property and this does allow for condoing.

[Speaker 1] (2:57:03 - 2:57:04)
I d

[Speaker 3] (2:57:04 - 2:57:04)
So

[Speaker 9] (2:57:04 - 2:57:04)
And

[Speaker 3] (2:57:04 - 2:57:04)
when we you

[Speaker 9] (2:57:04 - 2:57:06)
have to put in all, you know, different

[Speaker 3] (2:57:06 - 2:57:06)
And I will

[Speaker 9] (2:57:06 - 2:57:06)
stuff

[Speaker 3] (2:57:06 - 2:57:06)
say that

[Speaker 9] (2:57:06 - 2:57:06)
for parking

[Speaker 3] (2:57:06 - 2:57:07)
having moved

[Speaker 9] (2:57:07 - 2:57:07)
and yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:57:07 - 2:57:09)
here from San Francisco,

[Speaker 3] (2:57:11 - 2:57:19)
we do have to give thought to that too because that does force housing prices up when you have the ability to condoize.

[Speaker 10] (2:57:20 - 2:57:20)
You're

[Speaker 3] (2:57:20 - 2:57:47)
um and so we had very strict limitations on condoising. You know, you can't buy a a building and then condo it and sell it off at a even higher price and and as a condo gets sold, it's less likely to be rental. So there's a bunch of other things that, you know, we need to be cognizant of. I don't I'm not saying that that's what would happen here, but there are reasons that that opening that can of worms can be problematic.

[Speaker 3] (2:57:48 - 2:58:07)
The other question that does also become when you create a unit like this um how are we what are the differences between converting a house like a lot of these houses that were converted post-World War II, they put up stud walls and they

[Speaker 1] (2:58:07 - 2:58:07)
Hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:07 - 2:58:10)
plastered and they closed this door and blah blah blah. Great.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:11 - 2:58:15)
There are also a lot of issues around firewalls.

[Speaker 1] (2:58:16 - 2:58:16)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:16 - 2:58:23)
And and that is like if I own a condo and it's half of a house, that firewall starts in the basement and marches all

[Speaker 10] (2:58:23 - 2:58:23)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:23 - 2:58:24)
the way through to the roof.

[Speaker 1] (2:58:24 - 2:58:27)
Wouldn't that have to be a building code? Wouldn't that be part of building code?

[Speaker 3] (2:58:27 - 2:58:27)
It's

[Speaker 9] (2:58:27 - 2:58:27)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:58:27 - 2:58:28)
building code,

[Speaker 9] (2:58:28 - 2:58:28)
don't know. I

[Speaker 3] (2:58:28 - 2:58:28)
but

[Speaker 9] (2:58:28 - 2:58:30)
suppose it is, right? But uh

[Speaker 3] (2:58:30 - 2:58:34)
But it is it is a c a case that, you know, it is

[Speaker 3] (2:58:35 - 2:58:36)
What yeah, what

[Speaker 2] (2:58:36 - 2:58:36)
small

[Speaker 3] (2:58:36 - 2:58:36)
I what

[Speaker 2] (2:58:36 - 2:58:37)
thing to do

[Speaker 3] (2:58:37 - 2:58:52)
I think we need to do right if we're deciding to move this forward would be have a meeting like a session with Rich and with Bayer and with everybody who would be you know putting this into practice

[Speaker 1] (2:58:52 - 2:58:52)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:52 - 2:58:58)
and making sure we get their notes and their opinions because they're going to be the ones enforcing it on their end and they're going to know.

[Speaker 3] (2:58:59 - 2:59:08)
you know what they're gonna be looking at and what might be like a common problem that we see whether it's egress or it's it's other things. I think we would need to

[Speaker 4] (2:59:08 - 2:59:10)
Yeah, I think it would just be based on your experience,

[Speaker 3] (2:59:10 - 2:59:12)
have a session with them.

[Speaker 5] (2:59:12 - 2:59:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:59:12 - 2:59:13)
right, based on your

[Speaker 3] (2:59:13 - 2:59:13)
To pledge

[Speaker 4] (2:59:13 - 2:59:13)
experience

[Speaker 3] (2:59:13 - 2:59:14)
it all then.

[Speaker 4] (2:59:14 - 2:59:19)
in the other zoning districts, when a house gets converted from a single to a two family, how would that apply elsewhere.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:19 - 2:59:23)
And and talking about just even the things like a signing addresses and the

[Speaker 3] (2:59:23 - 2:59:23)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:23 - 2:59:26)
the questions that came up on that one Yeah. that was up off of Berkeley

[Speaker 3] (2:59:26 - 2:59:27)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:27 - 2:59:28)
as to like

[Speaker 2] (2:59:28 - 2:59:31)
like what's OK here and especially if we our

[Speaker 4] (2:59:31 - 2:59:31)
Well,

[Speaker 2] (2:59:31 - 2:59:32)
goal that's is

[Speaker 4] (2:59:32 - 2:59:32)
a

[Speaker 2] (2:59:32 - 2:59:32)
to

[Speaker 4] (2:59:32 - 2:59:32)
good

[Speaker 2] (2:59:32 - 2:59:32)
keep

[Speaker 4] (2:59:32 - 2:59:32)
thing

[Speaker 2] (2:59:32 - 2:59:32)
it to like

[Speaker 4] (2:59:32 - 2:59:33)
learn.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:33 - 2:59:34)
a single-family house,

[Speaker 3] (2:59:34 - 2:59:34)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:34 - 2:59:36)
how do you do that

[Speaker 3] (2:59:36 - 2:59:36)
Like if they want

[Speaker 2] (2:59:36 - 2:59:36)
and

[Speaker 3] (2:59:36 - 2:59:37)
to expand

[Speaker 2] (2:59:37 - 2:59:37)
have an obvious

[Speaker 3] (2:59:37 - 2:59:39)
parking and stuff like

[Speaker 2] (2:59:39 - 2:59:39)
you know,

[Speaker 3] (2:59:39 - 2:59:39)
that.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:39 - 2:59:46)
I like this very subtle fifteen seventeen on the on the cover that's that's awesome. But, you know

[Speaker 4] (2:59:47 - 2:59:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:59:48 - 2:59:51)
realistically, there's a there's a lot of pieces to it. So I think that's that would be really

[Speaker 3] (2:59:51 - 2:59:51)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:59:51 - 2:59:51)
important.

[Speaker 3] (2:59:51 - 2:59:55)
I think just so we, you know, have covered

[Speaker 3] (2:59:57 - 3:00:04)
all the details from the whole process, 'cause, you know, they'll be seeing these coming in, you know, if we

[Speaker 4] (3:00:04 - 3:00:06)
Mm. I would also think that any

[Speaker 3] (3:00:06 - 3:00:07)
get it passed.

[Speaker 4] (3:00:07 - 3:00:11)
any building subject to well, they have to get a special permit to do this.

[Speaker 4] (3:00:12 - 3:00:15)
Should also be subject to site plan to some degree, just

[Speaker 2] (3:00:15 - 3:00:15)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:00:15 - 3:00:15)
um,

[Speaker 6] (3:00:15 - 3:00:16)
What?

[Speaker 4] (3:00:16 - 3:00:17)
site plan.

[Speaker 2] (3:00:17 - 3:00:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (3:00:18 - 3:00:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:00:18 - 3:00:19)
For those

[Speaker 3] (3:00:19 - 3:00:19)
Well, exactly I guess it

[Speaker 4] (3:00:19 - 3:00:21)
issues that Jer just mentioned, just I I'm

[Speaker 2] (3:00:21 - 3:00:22)
Mm.

[Speaker 4] (3:00:22 - 3:00:24)
I know it's probably building code, but

[Speaker 4] (3:00:25 - 3:00:27)
just to ensure that it matches

[Speaker 2] (3:00:27 - 3:00:28)
Get eyeballs on it, yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:00:28 - 3:00:33)
And they might wanna I mean if there does have to be another egress cut into it somewhere,

[Speaker 4] (3:00:33 - 3:00:34)
It's done the right way.

[Speaker 7] (3:00:34 - 3:00:40)
you know, how where is that gonna be and and and what's it look like and what about the parking, if that's gonna change, I wanna

[Speaker 2] (3:00:40 - 3:00:40)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (3:00:40 - 3:00:43)
reconfigure parking, I mean I think, you know, there's

[Speaker 4] (3:00:43 - 3:00:43)
There's a number of things

[Speaker 7] (3:00:43 - 3:00:43)
a lot

[Speaker 4] (3:00:43 - 3:00:44)
that would

[Speaker 7] (3:00:44 - 3:00:44)
to look at.

[Speaker 8] (3:00:44 - 3:00:45)
Mm.

[Speaker 7] (3:00:45 - 3:00:50)
What about, you know, are there now gonna be three separate AC units outside my h you know.

[Speaker 4] (3:00:51 - 3:00:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:00:51 - 3:00:58)
It'll be more utilities and stuff like that. Whereas, you know, is there bike storage? Or any kind of, you know, storage space,

[Speaker 7] (3:00:58 - 3:01:06)
garage, this and that, things that we wouldn't even think about with a single family home that could become an issue, yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:01:06 - 3:01:10)
Um, but a lot of, lot to chew on here, that's for sure.

[Speaker 3] (3:01:10 - 3:01:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:01:11 - 3:01:28)
I wonder if they didn't put those dates in there because they're really targeting the older homes to get that they're really targeting people that are living in older homes and are feeling like the house is too big. In other words, weren't they s weren't they saying it had to be pre

[Speaker 7] (3:01:29 - 3:01:29)
freeze

[Speaker 2] (3:01:30 - 3:01:30)
Residential

[Speaker 4] (3:01:30 - 3:01:30)
it's 55s,

[Speaker 2] (3:01:30 - 3:01:33)
districts principal predates 1952

[Speaker 7] (3:01:33 - 3:01:33)
yeah

[Speaker 2] (3:01:33 - 3:01:33)
business

[Speaker 7] (3:01:33 - 3:01:34)
pre-dates

[Speaker 2] (3:01:34 - 3:01:34)
district principal

[Speaker 7] (3:01:34 - 3:01:35)
right

[Speaker 2] (3:01:35 - 3:01:37)
predates 1963.

[Speaker 7] (3:01:37 - 3:01:39)
right so they just want all I guess

[Speaker 9] (3:01:39 - 3:01:39)
So older homes.

[Speaker 7] (3:01:39 - 3:01:41)
their homes are but I don't even know why

[Speaker 2] (3:01:42 - 3:01:43)
No, I don't either.

[Speaker 9] (3:01:43 - 3:01:44)
And maybe there is only

[Speaker 4] (3:01:44 - 3:01:44)
Might be.

[Speaker 9] (3:01:44 - 3:01:46)
things that came into

[Speaker 4] (3:01:46 - 3:01:46)
I was gonna say maybe

[Speaker 9] (3:01:46 - 3:01:46)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (3:01:46 - 3:01:47)
it's

[Speaker 9] (3:01:47 - 3:01:47)
maybe

[Speaker 4] (3:01:47 - 3:01:47)
a district that has

[Speaker 7] (3:01:47 - 3:01:48)
yeah

[Speaker 4] (3:01:48 - 3:01:49)
a historic housing trend and

[Speaker 7] (3:01:49 - 3:01:49)
they might

[Speaker 4] (3:01:49 - 3:01:50)
they

[Speaker 2] (3:01:50 - 3:01:50)
Then

[Speaker 7] (3:01:50 - 3:01:50)
have

[Speaker 4] (3:01:50 - 3:01:50)
it could

[Speaker 7] (3:01:50 - 3:01:50)
to be okay

[Speaker 2] (3:01:50 - 3:01:51)
like forty one.

[Speaker 7] (3:01:51 - 3:01:54)
so that might um wow

[Speaker 4] (3:01:54 - 3:01:57)
could just be housing production trends in the years prior to that.

[Speaker 4] (3:01:59 - 3:02:00)
in those specific districts.

[Speaker 7] (3:02:00 - 3:02:06)
Yeah, interesting, but I mean I don't know why they did it but it's kind of, there must be a I'm guessing there's a reason.

[Speaker 4] (3:02:07 - 3:02:09)
Chris, does that give you enough stuff to kind of think about?

[Speaker 3] (3:02:09 - 3:02:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (3:02:10 - 3:02:11)
Send it to Mark.

[Speaker 3] (3:02:11 - 3:02:12)
Yeah, absolutely. So

[Speaker 4] (3:02:12 - 3:02:14)
You sure you don't want any more stuff to think about?

[Speaker 7] (3:02:14 - 3:02:14)
I

[Speaker 3] (3:02:14 - 3:02:14)
I

[Speaker 7] (3:02:14 - 3:02:14)
don't know.

[Speaker 3] (3:02:14 - 3:02:15)
mean there uh there is

[Speaker 7] (3:02:15 - 3:02:16)
Come

[Speaker 3] (3:02:16 - 3:02:16)
lots

[Speaker 7] (3:02:16 - 3:02:16)
on.

[Speaker 3] (3:02:16 - 3:02:18)
more to think about there must be

[Speaker 7] (3:02:18 - 3:02:18)
There is.

[Speaker 3] (3:02:18 - 3:02:18)
there

[Speaker 4] (3:02:18 - 3:02:18)
I

[Speaker 3] (3:02:18 - 3:02:19)
are more things.

[Speaker 4] (3:02:19 - 3:02:21)
would suggest out of uh

[Speaker 3] (3:02:21 - 3:02:21)
On this list.

[Speaker 4] (3:02:21 - 3:02:22)
out of

[Speaker 4] (3:02:24 - 3:02:25)
respect for everyone's time

[Speaker 7] (3:02:25 - 3:02:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:02:26 - 3:02:27)
We table

[Speaker 3] (3:02:29 - 3:02:30)
It's fine.

[Speaker 4] (3:02:30 - 3:02:31)
oddage and sign by law.

[Speaker 3] (3:02:31 - 3:02:31)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (3:02:31 - 3:02:36)
Um short term rentals I'm thinking might be a quick conversation.

[Speaker 3] (3:02:37 - 3:02:37)
Um

[Speaker 3] (3:02:39 - 3:02:40)
Whatever you like, whatever you like

[Speaker 4] (3:02:40 - 3:02:53)
My gut on short term rentals is I don't know yet if I still don't have a concept of zoning as a right application for that. I know there are some towns that do it by zoning and there's a lot more towns that do it by general by law.

[Speaker 7] (3:02:53 - 3:03:01)
It probably should be general, because it shouldn't have to change, and it should not be run by us. I mean, it Yeah. should be a select board thing.

[Speaker 4] (3:03:02 - 3:03:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:02 - 3:03:09)
I would I would agree. I don't I don't really think this is a planning short term rental thing. I think that's a that's a permitting

[Speaker 4] (3:03:09 - 3:03:14)
Well the places that seem to do it through zoning, from my cursory look at it,

[Speaker 4] (3:03:14 - 3:03:20)
did it to regulate where it can happen. And I'm not sure that is a good thing for us that to

[Speaker 7] (3:03:20 - 3:03:20)
they're

[Speaker 4] (3:03:20 - 3:03:20)
engage

[Speaker 7] (3:03:20 - 3:03:20)
all over

[Speaker 4] (3:03:20 - 3:03:20)
in its

[Speaker 7] (3:03:20 - 3:03:20)
the

[Speaker 4] (3:03:20 - 3:03:20)
won't

[Speaker 7] (3:03:20 - 3:03:21)
place

[Speaker 4] (3:03:21 - 3:03:21)
stop.

[Speaker 7] (3:03:21 - 3:03:22)
already, you

[Speaker 4] (3:03:22 - 3:03:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:03:22 - 3:03:22)
know.

[Speaker 4] (3:03:22 - 3:03:29)
Well, I don't think we should I'm not in favor of having that conversation through a zoning conversation. I don't I don't think we should judge where a property is

[Speaker 7] (3:03:29 - 3:03:29)
No,

[Speaker 4] (3:03:29 - 3:03:31)
in terms of the airbnb

[Speaker 2] (3:03:31 - 3:03:31)
So we

[Speaker 4] (3:03:31 - 3:03:31)
use.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:31 - 3:03:31)
are

[Speaker 7] (3:03:31 - 3:03:32)
I don't

[Speaker 2] (3:03:32 - 3:03:32)
we

[Speaker 7] (3:03:32 - 3:03:32)
think

[Speaker 2] (3:03:32 - 3:03:32)
being

[Speaker 7] (3:03:32 - 3:03:32)
so either.

[Speaker 4] (3:03:32 - 3:03:35)
Are there's other stuff that are more important to talk about that

[Speaker 2] (3:03:35 - 3:03:36)
we

[Speaker 4] (3:03:36 - 3:03:36)
are other people with

[Speaker 2] (3:03:36 - 3:03:36)
approaching

[Speaker 4] (3:03:36 - 3:03:36)
jurisdiction.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:36 - 3:03:43)
short-term rentals because of housing shortage? Are we approaching short-term rentals because of complaints of

[Speaker 2] (3:03:44 - 3:03:47)
residents to like, why would why why is this in front of us?

[Speaker 3] (3:03:47 - 3:03:48)
It was

[Speaker 4] (3:03:48 - 3:03:48)
I

[Speaker 3] (3:03:48 - 3:03:49)
on the list.

[Speaker 4] (3:03:49 - 3:03:50)
I brought it up about a year

[Speaker 2] (3:03:50 - 3:03:50)
Oh,

[Speaker 3] (3:03:50 - 3:03:50)
and Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:03:50 - 3:03:51)
it's not my fault.

[Speaker 4] (3:03:51 - 3:03:57)
a half ago. I brought it up about a year and a half ago. Someone had brought it up at a meeting at one point. I don't remember who,

[Speaker 7] (3:03:57 - 3:03:57)
We but started

[Speaker 4] (3:03:57 - 3:03:58)
it was brought up about a year

[Speaker 7] (3:03:58 - 3:03:58)
working

[Speaker 4] (3:03:58 - 3:03:58)
and a half ago.

[Speaker 7] (3:03:58 - 3:04:03)
on it like years ago. Remember I think it was and then we tried to put something together when Molly was here.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:04 - 3:04:05)
Yep, that's what it was.

[Speaker 7] (3:04:05 - 3:04:09)
And then um yeah we have we do have some kind of a draft somewhere, I guess.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:09 - 3:04:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:09 - 3:04:11)
But are what problem are we solving?

[Speaker 4] (3:04:12 - 3:04:13)
I don't think it was

[Speaker 7] (3:04:13 - 3:04:15)
It's a regulatory thing more.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:16 - 3:04:31)
my my point of bringing it up was I didn't want to I lived next to an Airbnb for years it was a most miserable experience of the first four years I lived in small stuff and I called the building commissioner at the time he said well there's nothing really I can do

[Speaker 7] (3:04:31 - 3:04:32)
We have no regulation.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:32 - 3:04:36)
yeah and my goal wasn't necessary to like shut the

[Speaker 4] (3:04:36 - 3:04:46)
kind person who owned the place, or Airbnb down, but it was a two family home that was being marketed and sold as four separate units and four separate short term rentals. And it was a whole bunch of different issues.

[Speaker 2] (3:04:46 - 3:04:49)
I was wondering, is it bad having four units next door?

[Speaker 4] (3:04:50 - 3:04:50)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (3:04:51 - 3:04:52)
Hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:52 - 3:04:53)
In in a I can literally

[Speaker 7] (3:04:53 - 3:04:53)
That's that's

[Speaker 2] (3:04:53 - 3:04:55)
I I'm leaving town.

[Speaker 7] (3:04:55 - 3:04:56)
really not that's so not fair.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:56 - 3:04:57)
I mean,

[Speaker 7] (3:04:57 - 3:04:57)
No.

[Speaker 4] (3:04:57 - 3:05:04)
s you've seen dad house. I can literally touch her house from my bedroom window Yeah. by leaning out. Not very I have a big wingspan, so I'm pretty close to

[Speaker 4] (3:05:05 - 3:05:10)
Well, regardless, so once that that kind of sat in the back of my head. Then when I got on the planning board, Molly had brought it up.

[Speaker 3] (3:05:10 - 3:05:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:05:11 - 3:05:18)
So my thinking was let's think about if there's a regulatory pathway that we don't want to limit it, in my opinion don't want to limit it, but if there's problems,

[Speaker 7] (3:05:18 - 3:05:18)
You could have

[Speaker 4] (3:05:18 - 3:05:18)
there's

[Speaker 7] (3:05:18 - 3:05:18)
multiple

[Speaker 4] (3:05:18 - 3:05:19)
at least a pathway

[Speaker 7] (3:05:19 - 3:05:19)
short-term

[Speaker 4] (3:05:19 - 3:05:19)
to

[Speaker 7] (3:05:19 - 3:05:22)
rentals in one building. I mean there can be a You what

[Speaker 2] (3:05:22 - 3:05:22)
So I guess

[Speaker 7] (3:05:22 - 3:05:22)
if you think

[Speaker 2] (3:05:22 - 3:05:22)
my question

[Speaker 7] (3:05:22 - 3:05:23)
we could do.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:23 - 3:05:27)
would be in in my view that

[Speaker 2] (3:05:29 - 3:05:31)
seems like it

[Speaker 2] (3:05:32 - 3:05:37)
Is an, I still don't really see how that's in planning. I really think that that has to do with noise violation,

[Speaker 4] (3:05:37 - 3:05:37)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:37 - 3:05:40)
has to do with with with quality of life

[Speaker 7] (3:05:40 - 3:05:40)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (3:05:40 - 3:05:47)
and therefore selectmen looking at, you know, and I know that people are hesitant to do things

[Speaker 4] (3:05:47 - 3:05:47)
No,

[Speaker 2] (3:05:47 - 3:05:47)
like

[Speaker 4] (3:05:47 - 3:05:47)
I

[Speaker 2] (3:05:47 - 3:05:47)
that,

[Speaker 4] (3:05:47 - 3:05:47)
i

[Speaker 2] (3:05:47 - 3:05:48)
but I

[Speaker 7] (3:05:48 - 3:05:48)
The thing is we need

[Speaker 4] (3:05:48 - 3:05:48)
think

[Speaker 7] (3:05:48 - 3:05:49)
to be

[Speaker 4] (3:05:49 - 3:05:49)
your gut

[Speaker 7] (3:05:49 - 3:05:49)
able,

[Speaker 4] (3:05:49 - 3:05:49)
is right.

[Speaker 7] (3:05:49 - 3:05:59)
we need to be able to, I mean whoever controls it I think is a worthwhile discussion to have because we need to be able to find a way to address this. Now

[Speaker 7] (3:05:58 - 3:06:06)
Now, you can say it's a select board, but who how are they going to pay attention? Who's going to monitor? It's not going to come up for them, where

[Speaker 2] (3:06:06 - 3:06:07)
That it's would it's

[Speaker 7] (3:06:07 - 3:06:07)
going to

[Speaker 2] (3:06:07 - 3:06:09)
it's it would be town law

[Speaker 7] (3:06:10 - 3:06:10)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (3:06:10 - 3:06:11)
So the way that

[Speaker 7] (3:06:11 - 3:06:12)
So it would have to be building

[Speaker 2] (3:06:12 - 3:06:13)
enforced by by the police department

[Speaker 7] (3:06:13 - 3:06:13)
police.

[Speaker 4] (3:06:13 - 3:06:21)
the way the way that my parents own an Airbnb in Chatham and the way that I believe Chatham does it is they have the building inspector

[Speaker 4] (3:06:21 - 3:06:25)
They pay five hundred dollars a year for a short term rental licence.

[Speaker 2] (3:06:25 - 3:06:25)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:06:25 - 3:06:33)
The building inspector comes, I think, to get when you get the licence, inspects it, says it's habitable, it's good for short term rental, signs the licence,

[Speaker 3] (3:06:33 - 3:06:33)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:06:33 - 3:06:37)
either every year or every five years they have to come back and re-inspect. But it's done

[Speaker 4] (3:06:38 - 3:06:40)
in Chatham, I believe through general by-law, not through zoning.

[Speaker 3] (3:06:41 - 3:06:44)
I p I think most places it is so

[Speaker 4] (3:06:44 - 3:06:44)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (3:06:44 - 3:06:46)
it would be

[Speaker 3] (3:06:47 - 3:06:55)
you know, just if you want in the use table to regulate where it can be based off of zoning. Um but everything else is typically in in general by-law,

[Speaker 7] (3:06:55 - 3:06:55)
That like makes sense.

[Speaker 3] (3:06:55 - 3:06:56)
permitting and you know.

[Speaker 4] (3:06:56 - 3:06:57)
And I really

[Speaker 7] (3:06:57 - 3:06:57)
That

[Speaker 4] (3:06:57 - 3:06:57)
would make have a

[Speaker 7] (3:06:57 - 3:06:58)
perfect

[Speaker 4] (3:06:58 - 3:06:58)
a conversation

[Speaker 7] (3:06:58 - 3:06:58)
sense.

[Speaker 4] (3:06:58 - 3:07:00)
of where they can happen. That's

[Speaker 9] (3:07:00 - 3:07:00)
I think

[Speaker 4] (3:07:00 - 3:07:01)
not that something

[Speaker 9] (3:07:01 - 3:07:01)
would be

[Speaker 4] (3:07:01 - 3:07:01)
I want to engage

[Speaker 9] (3:07:01 - 3:07:01)
an I again.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:01 - 3:07:01)
in

[Speaker 7] (3:07:01 - 3:07:01)
don't

[Speaker 4] (3:07:01 - 3:07:02)
at all.

[Speaker 7] (3:07:02 - 3:07:03)
think that makes any sense at all,

[Speaker 4] (3:07:03 - 3:07:03)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (3:07:03 - 3:07:03)
yes.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:03 - 3:07:03)
agreed.

[Speaker 7] (3:07:03 - 3:07:05)
No, so I don't

[Speaker 9] (3:07:05 - 3:07:08)
We do have a short-term rental, but we have a we have a P_E_P_ by-law.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:08 - 3:07:08)
Right.

[Speaker 9] (3:07:09 - 3:07:12)
And I think it's all uh all zones.

[Speaker 9] (3:07:13 - 3:07:15)
Yeah, all residentials only.

[Speaker 7] (3:07:15 - 3:07:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (3:07:15 - 3:07:23)
And if you find short-term rentals, it does not really stress the... You talking about Airbnbs? Because it's a separate thing,

[Speaker 2] (3:07:23 - 3:07:24)
Yeah, that's

[Speaker 9] (3:07:24 - 3:07:24)
right?

[Speaker 2] (3:07:24 - 3:07:24)
not the same.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:24 - 3:07:28)
So my recollection, we had this conversation I think last year.

[Speaker 7] (3:07:28 - 3:07:28)
Mm hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:28 - 3:07:33)
My recollection was there was some definition that made renting out your single family,

[Speaker 4] (3:07:34 - 3:07:34)
like

[Speaker 7] (3:07:34 - 3:07:34)
Whatever.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:34 - 3:07:35)
a single family house,

[Speaker 7] (3:07:35 - 3:07:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:36 - 3:07:40)
renting your single family home out on Airbnb for a night.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:41 - 3:07:47)
Did not b did it match the definition of inns, B_ and B_s, motels, hotels because

[Speaker 9] (3:07:47 - 3:07:47)
No, it's a B_

[Speaker 4] (3:07:47 - 3:07:48)
of

[Speaker 9] (3:07:48 - 3:07:53)
and B_ the B_ and B_ definition is very specific, it's to a a a a B_ and B_ in your house,

[Speaker 4] (3:07:53 - 3:07:53)
a roo a room

[Speaker 9] (3:07:53 - 3:07:54)
you have a store in it.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:54 - 3:07:54)
in your house.

[Speaker 9] (3:07:54 - 3:07:54)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (3:07:54 - 3:07:55)
But I

[Speaker 9] (3:07:55 - 3:07:55)
of course.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:55 - 3:07:58)
think the problem was if it was the whole house, there was something about the kitchen facility

[Speaker 2] (3:07:59 - 3:07:59)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:07:59 - 3:08:00)
that made the definition

[Speaker 7] (3:08:00 - 3:08:01)
And serving,

[Speaker 4] (3:08:01 - 3:08:01)
similar but

[Speaker 7] (3:08:01 - 3:08:02)
but right.

[Speaker 4] (3:08:02 - 3:08:02)
not identical.

[Speaker 7] (3:08:02 - 3:08:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (3:08:03 - 3:08:06)
You had to you had to serve breakfast on it and you couldn't serve breakfast to the public.

[Speaker 7] (3:08:07 - 3:08:08)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:08 - 3:08:09)
That's within our bylaw.

[Speaker 4] (3:08:09 - 3:08:09)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:11 - 3:08:11)
Um

[Speaker 2] (3:08:13 - 3:08:20)
The so East Ham has the same policies. We have to hold a we have a we have a permit.

[Speaker 2] (3:08:20 - 3:08:29)
It is on the refrigerator of the house and it is inspected and we just

[Speaker 2] (3:08:40 - 3:08:41)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (3:08:41 - 3:08:46)
Um and I think we have to be very careful. I don't think they're not through, they're not through planning.

[Speaker 3] (3:08:47 - 3:08:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:08:47 - 3:08:53)
Um but it is and and it is a revenue for the town. I mean you there's

[Speaker 4] (3:08:53 - 3:08:53)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (3:08:53 - 3:09:05)
you're doing this and it's it's it's you're paying there's taxes that go to the town for it, there's fees that go to the town, um but it is in it isn't in planning.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:05 - 3:09:10)
Is it generally agreed upon here that a where this can happen in town is not a conversation we want to have?

[Speaker 1] (3:09:11 - 3:09:11)
I

[Speaker 3] (3:09:11 - 3:09:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:11 - 3:09:12)
absolutely agree

[Speaker 3] (3:09:12 - 3:09:13)
Absolutely

[Speaker 5] (3:09:13 - 3:09:13)
I agree.

[Speaker 3] (3:09:13 - 3:09:13)
agree.

[Speaker 5] (3:09:13 - 3:09:14)
We can limit it.

[Speaker 5] (3:09:15 - 3:09:15)
We can limit it.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:15 - 3:09:23)
Well some towns I think Salem gives limited, and then they ban it entirely, I think across town through their zoning by-law.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:23 - 3:09:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:23 - 3:09:24)
And that was in the last six

[Speaker 6] (3:09:24 - 3:09:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:24 - 3:09:25)
years they've kinda done all

[Speaker 1] (3:09:25 - 3:09:26)
And

[Speaker 4] (3:09:26 - 3:09:26)
of those things.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:26 - 3:09:26)
But I think

[Speaker 7] (3:09:26 - 3:09:28)
I think there are unique case with

[Speaker 4] (3:09:28 - 3:09:28)
Totally

[Speaker 7] (3:09:28 - 3:09:29)
the tourism

[Speaker 4] (3:09:29 - 3:09:29)
totally

[Speaker 6] (3:09:29 - 3:09:29)
Yeah

[Speaker 7] (3:09:29 - 3:09:29)
part.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:29 - 3:09:30)
unique.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:30 - 3:09:30)
there is a mission

[Speaker 7] (3:09:30 - 3:09:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:30 - 3:09:31)
there and it's,

[Speaker 4] (3:09:31 - 3:09:32)
Totally.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:32 - 3:09:32)
you know

[Speaker 4] (3:09:32 - 3:09:35)
But that's an example of a place that did it, and then

[Speaker 7] (3:09:35 - 3:09:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:35 - 3:09:36)
undid it and then did it again.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:36 - 3:09:40)
And I I went to go to I guess Manhattan doesn't allow it.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:39 - 3:09:41)
Does I try to design

[Speaker 4] (3:09:41 - 3:09:42)
So there's an an article in the New York Times

[Speaker 7] (3:09:42 - 3:09:42)
Yeah, that makes

[Speaker 4] (3:09:42 - 3:09:43)
last week

[Speaker 7] (3:09:43 - 3:09:43)
sense.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:43 - 3:09:44)
about the underground Airbnb market.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:44 - 3:09:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:45 - 3:09:45)
Sh it's interesting.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:46 - 3:09:47)
Yeah, no, I jus I was just

[Speaker 4] (3:09:47 - 3:09:48)
So

[Speaker 1] (3:09:48 - 3:09:48)
I was shocked.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:48 - 3:09:52)
if we're all in kind of agreement on that, then I don't think it makes sense to continue the conversation.

[Speaker 7] (3:09:52 - 3:09:52)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:52 - 3:09:52)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (3:09:52 - 3:09:54)
So that's why I thought it would be a quick.

[Speaker 7] (3:09:54 - 3:09:54)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (3:09:54 - 3:09:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:09:55 - 3:09:56)
Um so

[Speaker 7] (3:09:57 - 3:09:58)
Next one.

[Speaker 7] (3:09:58 - 3:09:59)
We can continue or?

[Speaker 4] (3:10:00 - 3:10:03)
Cottage, I want to table that. That'll be a long conversation that I don't

[Speaker 7] (3:10:03 - 3:10:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:10:03 - 3:10:04)
or that'll be a more thorough

[Speaker 8] (3:10:04 - 3:10:04)
Cottage

[Speaker 4] (3:10:04 - 3:10:05)
conversation.

[Speaker 8] (3:10:05 - 3:10:11)
is what was supposed to happen at Atlantic Crossing where the temple was that was supposed to be cottage and then what we got was

[Speaker 7] (3:10:11 - 3:10:11)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (3:10:11 - 3:10:12)
not

[Speaker 1] (3:10:12 - 3:10:12)
They're

[Speaker 8] (3:10:12 - 3:10:12)
even

[Speaker 1] (3:10:12 - 3:10:14)
kind of big cottages. Those

[Speaker 7] (3:10:14 - 3:10:14)
They're

[Speaker 1] (3:10:14 - 3:10:14)
are very really

[Speaker 7] (3:10:14 - 3:10:14)
big

[Speaker 1] (3:10:14 - 3:10:15)
big cottages. cottages.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:15 - 3:10:15)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:15 - 3:10:19)
So we can talk about signs next time.

[Speaker 8] (3:10:19 - 3:10:20)
Next time.

[Speaker 4] (3:10:20 - 3:10:20)
I think sign

[Speaker 8] (3:10:20 - 3:10:21)
Because

[Speaker 4] (3:10:21 - 3:10:21)
is a

[Speaker 8] (3:10:21 - 3:10:21)
it's

[Speaker 4] (3:10:21 - 3:10:21)
good

[Speaker 8] (3:10:21 - 3:10:25)
a that's might be a long discussion simply because we need some kind of

[Speaker 8] (3:10:25 - 3:10:31)
kind of design guidelines that I might email to Jer ahead of time.

[Speaker 8] (3:10:32 - 3:10:32)
Oh s

[Speaker 1] (3:10:32 - 3:10:33)
Well, have you been

[Speaker 8] (3:10:33 - 3:10:33)
We

[Speaker 1] (3:10:33 - 3:10:33)
working?

[Speaker 8] (3:10:33 - 3:10:34)
have some stuff.

[Speaker 1] (3:10:34 - 3:10:36)
Is there a slide presentation there on this?

[Speaker 7] (3:10:36 - 3:10:37)
I mean, it's just um

[Speaker 4] (3:10:38 - 3:10:38)
I would think we

[Speaker 7] (3:10:38 - 3:10:38)
a

[Speaker 4] (3:10:38 - 3:10:38)
should

[Speaker 7] (3:10:38 - 3:10:39)
compilation of

[Speaker 7] (3:10:40 - 3:10:44)
considerations that um Angela sent me, and that's it.

[Speaker 1] (3:10:44 - 3:10:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (3:10:44 - 3:10:45)
Just for discussion.

[Speaker 4] (3:10:45 - 3:10:54)
Yeah, I think it would be helpful for us to I don't have a full concept of what will be on the October agenda, but I know all of us have a copy of this presentation in our emails right?

[Speaker 7] (3:10:55 - 3:10:55)
Yes, if

[Speaker 4] (3:10:55 - 3:10:56)
That's

[Speaker 7] (3:10:56 - 3:10:56)
I didn't

[Speaker 4] (3:10:56 - 3:10:56)
a power

[Speaker 7] (3:10:56 - 3:10:56)
send

[Speaker 4] (3:10:56 - 3:10:56)
that

[Speaker 7] (3:10:56 - 3:10:57)
it, I will send it

[Speaker 1] (3:10:57 - 3:10:57)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (3:10:57 - 3:10:58)
to you

[Speaker 1] (3:10:58 - 3:10:58)
I

[Speaker 7] (3:10:58 - 3:10:58)
as do soon at as the end of this.

[Speaker 1] (3:10:58 - 3:11:00)
we I did not see this one.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:00 - 3:11:00)
Okay,

[Speaker 7] (3:11:00 - 3:11:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:00 - 3:11:01)
you circulate it

[Speaker 7] (3:11:01 - 3:11:01)
This

[Speaker 4] (3:11:01 - 3:11:01)
afterwards.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:01 - 3:11:02)
one was

[Speaker 4] (3:11:02 - 3:11:06)
And then ahead of the next meeting we can kind of walk through it and then have a more informed conversation on

[Speaker 1] (3:11:06 - 3:11:07)
You and

[Speaker 4] (3:11:07 - 3:11:07)
the frame.

[Speaker 1] (3:11:07 - 3:11:09)
Lee said that we would have the sidewalk

[Speaker 7] (3:11:09 - 3:11:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:11:09 - 3:11:10)
the sidewalk

[Speaker 7] (3:11:11 - 3:11:15)
Yeah, and I will say there are a few things, so anything,

[Speaker 7] (3:11:15 - 3:11:21)
you know, if we were seriously considering moving forward with the

[Speaker 7] (3:11:22 - 3:11:26)
single family what did we call it? What are we calling this?

[Speaker 8] (3:11:26 - 3:11:27)
Single family

[Speaker 7] (3:11:27 - 3:11:27)
Conversion.

[Speaker 8] (3:11:27 - 3:11:29)
conversion,

[Speaker 8] (3:11:29 - 3:11:29)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:29 - 3:11:30)
Um then

[Speaker 4] (3:11:30 - 3:11:31)
That's a better way to put it, then.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:31 - 3:11:39)
we will really wanna make sure that it is um a goal and action item in the master plan update um

[Speaker 8] (3:11:39 - 3:11:39)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:39 - 3:11:44)
and mentioned at, you know, public meetings so then

[Speaker 8] (3:11:44 - 3:11:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:44 - 3:11:47)
when we introduce it it's not the first time people are hearing it.

[Speaker 1] (3:11:47 - 3:11:47)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:47 - 3:11:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (3:11:48 - 3:11:49)
Um and then it gives it more

[Speaker 7] (3:11:51 - 3:11:53)
um you know it's a better argument

[Speaker 8] (3:11:53 - 3:11:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (3:11:53 - 3:11:53)
when

[Speaker 8] (3:11:53 - 3:11:54)
we

[Speaker 7] (3:11:54 - 3:11:54)
it's

[Speaker 8] (3:11:54 - 3:11:54)
can

[Speaker 7] (3:11:54 - 3:11:54)
a public

[Speaker 8] (3:11:54 - 3:11:54)
talk about

[Speaker 7] (3:11:54 - 3:11:54)
concern.

[Speaker 8] (3:11:54 - 3:11:56)
it under housing options. We

[Speaker 4] (3:11:56 - 3:11:56)
Wasn't

[Speaker 8] (3:11:56 - 3:11:56)
just had

[Speaker 4] (3:11:56 - 3:11:56)
it in

[Speaker 8] (3:11:56 - 3:11:56)
it on.

[Speaker 4] (3:11:56 - 3:11:58)
the s it I But think

[Speaker 7] (3:11:58 - 3:11:58)
they were

[Speaker 4] (3:11:58 - 3:11:58)
that was

[Speaker 7] (3:11:58 - 3:11:58)
fine

[Speaker 4] (3:11:58 - 3:12:00)
an option in the survey that

[Speaker 8] (3:12:00 - 3:12:00)
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:12:00 - 3:12:02)
we just did the the master plan

[Speaker 7] (3:12:02 - 3:12:05)
It it was, it was on the priorities list. Um

[Speaker 4] (3:12:05 - 3:12:07)
There were 900 items on the priority list,

[Speaker 8] (3:12:07 - 3:12:07)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (3:12:07 - 3:12:09)
so I I could mix up where it was, but

[Speaker 8] (3:12:10 - 3:12:14)
It's pretty good though. I think that there'll be a good way to work it in there.

[Speaker 4] (3:12:15 - 3:12:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:15 - 3:12:16)
Um

[Speaker 1] (3:12:16 - 3:12:16)
Great suggestions.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:16 - 3:12:18)
yeah, so just making sure in that way,

[Speaker 9] (3:12:18 - 3:12:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:18 - 3:12:27)
if we ever for any reason want to get technical assistance or funding potentially through someone even M_A_P_C_ you know, since it's tied

[Speaker 1] (3:12:27 - 3:12:27)
I thought that

[Speaker 7] (3:12:27 - 3:12:28)
into the was goals and actions

[Speaker 9] (3:12:28 - 3:12:29)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:29 - 3:12:31)
that they recommended, you know, it's more likely it'll

[Speaker 9] (3:12:31 - 3:12:31)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:31 - 3:12:31)
go through.

[Speaker 1] (3:12:32 - 3:12:32)
Excellent.

[Speaker 4] (3:12:32 - 3:12:33)
Good good thoughts.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:33 - 3:12:34)
So um

[Speaker 4] (3:12:34 - 3:12:34)
That's a nice thought.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:34 - 3:12:38)
and Marzi also mentioned there may be

[Speaker 7] (3:12:40 - 3:12:44)
some money left in the sign and awning fund that we have right now,

[Speaker 8] (3:12:44 - 3:12:44)
Oh,

[Speaker 7] (3:12:44 - 3:12:44)
so I think

[Speaker 8] (3:12:44 - 3:12:44)
good.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:44 - 3:12:45)
we need

[Speaker 4] (3:12:45 - 3:12:45)
Consulting.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:45 - 3:12:54)
to consider if we were would do like an amnesty if we change the bylaws for any of this, but we don't know exactly how much she'll look into it, so we can talk

[Speaker 8] (3:12:54 - 3:12:54)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (3:12:54 - 3:12:54)
to her this month.

[Speaker 8] (3:12:54 - 3:12:55)
And she had mentioned, too,

[Speaker 8] (3:12:56 - 3:12:59)
that at one point when we I've been kind of

[Speaker 8] (3:13:00 - 3:13:09)
you know harping on this for a little while, but she mentioned something about some kind of grant programs, whether they were for you know uh main street, s you know whatever,

[Speaker 7] (3:13:09 - 3:13:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:09 - 3:13:09)
Oh,

[Speaker 8] (3:13:09 - 3:13:09)
uh

[Speaker 1] (3:13:09 - 3:13:10)
street

[Speaker 8] (3:13:10 - 3:13:10)
downtown

[Speaker 1] (3:13:10 - 3:13:10)
project, yeah.

[Speaker 8] (3:13:10 - 3:13:15)
sign, it just right, just stuff like that. Small programs that that w would cover a lot of stuff like this.

[Speaker 4] (3:13:15 - 3:13:18)
The Lynn Chamber probably ha they have a swampscot division, I'm sure they have some

[Speaker 8] (3:13:18 - 3:13:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:13:19 - 3:13:21)
opportunity or interest in having a conversation

[Speaker 8] (3:13:21 - 3:13:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:13:21 - 3:13:22)
about it.

[Speaker 7] (3:13:22 - 3:13:23)
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 8] (3:13:24 - 3:13:24)
So

[Speaker 4] (3:13:24 - 3:13:25)
Greater Lynn Chamber of Commerce.

[Speaker 8] (3:13:25 - 3:13:35)
We it's such a mess down there. We I was actually going to take pictures to bring and I thought that's really not nice. I didn't want to call people out and at a meeting

[Speaker 4] (3:13:35 - 3:13:36)
But the one thing

[Speaker 1] (3:13:36 - 3:13:37)
Well, it's funny because

[Speaker 1] (3:13:38 - 3:13:45)
the percentage of biolo like percentage of businesses with violations is got to be at fifty or

[Speaker 8] (3:13:45 - 3:13:45)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (3:13:45 - 3:13:45)
way

[Speaker 8] (3:13:45 - 3:13:46)
way

[Speaker 1] (3:13:46 - 3:13:46)
way higher

[Speaker 8] (3:13:46 - 3:13:46)
more.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:46 - 3:13:47)
yeah.

[Speaker 8] (3:13:47 - 3:13:50)
I'd rather, you know, be easier to count the people that are in compliance.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:50 - 3:13:51)
Exactly, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:13:51 - 3:13:52)
I

[Speaker 7] (3:13:52 - 3:13:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (3:13:52 - 3:13:52)
I

[Speaker 1] (3:13:52 - 3:13:52)
well

[Speaker 8] (3:13:52 - 3:13:52)
might

[Speaker 1] (3:13:52 - 3:13:54)
that's the be photo I knew to take.

[Speaker 4] (3:13:54 - 3:14:00)
I just think that yeah, the thing that you had mentioned when we first talked about this three years ago, Angela. Four years ago, three years ago,

[Speaker 8] (3:14:00 - 3:14:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:14:00 - 3:14:06)
that has stuck with me and I know I didn't notice it quite as badly as I notice it now as the materiality of the signs.

[Speaker 7] (3:14:06 - 3:14:07)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (3:14:07 - 3:14:13)
there are some signs that you might not like the black and gold, but that's designed fair well, good materials. And there's other signs that

[Speaker 4] (3:14:15 - 3:14:16)
are less so, uh

[Speaker 7] (3:14:16 - 3:14:17)
Mm-hmm. It's

[Speaker 4] (3:14:17 - 3:14:17)
from

[Speaker 7] (3:14:17 - 3:14:17)
a piece

[Speaker 4] (3:14:17 - 3:14:17)
a material

[Speaker 7] (3:14:17 - 3:14:17)
of sheet

[Speaker 4] (3:14:17 - 3:14:17)
perspective.

[Speaker 7] (3:14:17 - 3:14:18)
metal.

[Speaker 8] (3:14:18 - 3:14:22)
A thin piece of aluminium that they got spray painted with some letters lettered

[Speaker 4] (3:14:22 - 3:14:22)
That stands

[Speaker 8] (3:14:22 - 3:14:23)
hammer on

[Speaker 4] (3:14:23 - 3:14:24)
out to me more than anything

[Speaker 1] (3:14:24 - 3:14:24)
But there are other

[Speaker 4] (3:14:24 - 3:14:25)
else.

[Speaker 8] (3:14:25 - 3:14:25)
But it exactly,

[Speaker 1] (3:14:25 - 3:14:32)
we've got to realise though what goes into these bylaws is what we get out of it, okay?

[Speaker 8] (3:14:32 - 3:14:32)
which And is my

[Speaker 1] (3:14:32 - 3:14:32)
when

[Speaker 8] (3:14:32 - 3:14:33)
point

[Speaker 1] (3:14:33 - 3:14:33)
you do something

[Speaker 8] (3:14:33 - 3:14:33)
of changing

[Speaker 1] (3:14:33 - 3:14:34)
like that,

[Speaker 8] (3:14:34 - 3:14:34)
this finally.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:34 - 3:14:41)
if I'm opening a, you know, a muffin shop and I've never had a business before and and so forth.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:41 - 3:14:47)
and I am handed something by the town and it says gold with black it doesn't

[Speaker 8] (3:14:47 - 3:14:47)
It doesn't say

[Speaker 1] (3:14:47 - 3:14:48)
and

[Speaker 8] (3:14:48 - 3:14:48)
how anything

[Speaker 1] (3:14:48 - 3:14:49)
then and then it

[Speaker 8] (3:14:49 - 3:14:49)
else.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:49 - 3:14:57)
does it's not as if it's not as if that is going to I'm gonna walk in and say this is what I need whoever I'm told to go to

[Speaker 8] (3:14:57 - 3:14:57)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:14:57 - 3:14:58)
and then you

[Speaker 8] (3:14:58 - 3:14:58)
We

[Speaker 1] (3:14:58 - 3:14:58)
get whatever

[Speaker 8] (3:14:58 - 3:14:58)
all agree

[Speaker 1] (3:14:58 - 3:14:59)
you want

[Speaker 8] (3:14:59 - 3:14:59)
it's horrible.

[Speaker 8] (3:14:59 - 3:15:00)
I mean, everything,

[Speaker 1] (3:15:00 - 3:15:01)
no no but

[Speaker 8] (3:15:01 - 3:15:03)
the colors, the whole thing's terrible.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:03 - 3:15:05)
but the thing is that we need to get into depth materiality

[Speaker 8] (3:15:05 - 3:15:06)
We do.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:06 - 3:15:07)
all of that

[Speaker 8] (3:15:07 - 3:15:07)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:07 - 3:15:07)
stuff

[Speaker 7] (3:15:07 - 3:15:08)
Yeah, so it's

[Speaker 8] (3:15:08 - 3:15:09)
I have some very good examples.

[Speaker 7] (3:15:09 - 3:15:10)
it's a permitting

[Speaker 7] (3:15:11 - 3:15:15)
processing where you require plans, you know, done by a sign

[Speaker 1] (3:15:15 - 3:15:15)
Exactly.

[Speaker 7] (3:15:15 - 3:15:17)
designer you know so that

[Speaker 1] (3:15:17 - 3:15:17)
It's reviewed.

[Speaker 7] (3:15:17 - 3:15:18)
people aren't making them at

[Speaker 8] (3:15:18 - 3:15:18)
But

[Speaker 7] (3:15:18 - 3:15:19)
home,

[Speaker 8] (3:15:19 - 3:15:19)
even the

[Speaker 7] (3:15:19 - 3:15:19)
you

[Speaker 8] (3:15:19 - 3:15:19)
plans

[Speaker 7] (3:15:19 - 3:15:19)
know that that

[Speaker 8] (3:15:19 - 3:15:25)
we get have been like little, you know, sketches or pictures and and so a lot of it doesn't, you know, didn't come to

[Speaker 1] (3:15:25 - 3:15:25)
But

[Speaker 8] (3:15:25 - 3:15:25)
us. It's

[Speaker 1] (3:15:25 - 3:15:25)
one

[Speaker 8] (3:15:25 - 3:15:25)
called

[Speaker 1] (3:15:25 - 3:15:26)
of the things that

[Speaker 8] (3:15:26 - 3:15:32)
chock-a-block like some stuff comes here, some stuff goes to zoning. It doesn't make any sense.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:32 - 3:15:38)
But I think there's also the ability for us to have examples of like what does a

[Speaker 8] (3:15:38 - 3:15:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:38 - 3:15:38)
signage package look

[Speaker 8] (3:15:38 - 3:15:39)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:39 - 3:15:39)
like?

[Speaker 7] (3:15:39 - 3:15:39)
I

[Speaker 1] (3:15:39 - 3:15:39)
And

[Speaker 7] (3:15:39 - 3:15:39)
don't know.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:39 - 3:15:40)
utilize

[Speaker 8] (3:15:40 - 3:15:40)
That's really smart.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:40 - 3:15:43)
utilize one that's like okay here showing the dimensions

[Speaker 8] (3:15:43 - 3:15:44)
I like that a lot.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:44 - 3:15:46)
here here are color samples here

[Speaker 7] (3:15:46 - 3:15:46)
are Mm.

[Speaker 1] (3:15:46 - 3:15:47)
you know We the

[Speaker 4] (3:15:47 - 3:15:50)
do have appendices in our zoning bylaws that look like they're,

[Speaker 10] (3:15:50 - 3:15:50)
Mm, choose.

[Speaker 8] (3:15:50 - 3:15:50)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (3:15:50 - 3:15:52)
they could use some new content.

[Speaker 7] (3:15:52 - 3:15:52)
I

[Speaker 10] (3:15:52 - 3:15:52)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (3:15:52 - 3:15:52)
Yep,

[Speaker 7] (3:15:52 - 3:15:54)
think that's a really good idea.

[Speaker 4] (3:15:54 - 3:15:57)
Quite, quite the nice hand drawings, but we could use some this

[Speaker 8] (3:15:57 - 3:15:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:15:58 - 3:16:02)
would be a good place to add a new appendix to reflect design.

[Speaker 10] (3:16:02 - 3:16:02)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 8] (3:16:02 - 3:16:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:16:03 - 3:16:05)
I didn't even I've looked at the zoning bylaws a dozen times.

[Speaker 4] (3:16:05 - 3:16:09)
dozens of times. And I didn't even know we had an appendix until I wrote

[Speaker 7] (3:16:09 - 3:16:09)
Well,

[Speaker 4] (3:16:09 - 3:16:10)
the rule through and saw

[Speaker 7] (3:16:10 - 3:16:13)
it's over the it's over the dimensional table is. I

[Speaker 8] (3:16:13 - 3:16:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:13 - 3:16:13)
always look

[Speaker 4] (3:16:13 - 3:16:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:13 - 3:16:14)
for it

[Speaker 8] (3:16:14 - 3:16:14)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:14 - 3:16:14)
in the middle and it's

[Speaker 4] (3:16:14 - 3:16:15)
And

[Speaker 7] (3:16:15 - 3:16:15)
actually

[Speaker 4] (3:16:15 - 3:16:15)
you're like oh.

[Speaker 8] (3:16:15 - 3:16:15)
I know, it's a funny

[Speaker 4] (3:16:15 - 3:16:16)
Whoever

[Speaker 8] (3:16:16 - 3:16:16)
thing.

[Speaker 4] (3:16:16 - 3:16:17)
drew that has a very steady hand

[Speaker 7] (3:16:17 - 3:16:17)
I know.

[Speaker 4] (3:16:17 - 3:16:19)
that's drawn by dried pencil.

[Speaker 8] (3:16:20 - 3:16:21)
Funny, yeah.

[Speaker 4] (3:16:21 - 3:16:22)
So, alright.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:22 - 3:16:25)
Oh, wait. Um before we finish,

[Speaker 8] (3:16:25 - 3:16:26)
Oh we

[Speaker 7] (3:16:26 - 3:16:26)
um

[Speaker 8] (3:16:26 - 3:16:26)
have to do a date.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:26 - 3:16:28)
next month's meeting

[Speaker 8] (3:16:28 - 3:16:28)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:28 - 3:16:28)
date is

[Speaker 8] (3:16:28 - 3:16:29)
Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:29 - 3:16:30)
Columbus Day. So

[Speaker 8] (3:16:30 - 3:16:30)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:30 - 3:16:32)
we need to agree on a different meeting date.

[Speaker 8] (3:16:32 - 3:16:33)
Um hold on.

[Speaker 7] (3:16:35 - 3:16:36)
So we can't do the four.

[Speaker 8] (3:16:36 - 3:16:39)
Oh right, we got the thirteenth. Do you t um

[Speaker 1] (3:16:39 - 3:16:41)
So that's the thirteenth. Uh

[Speaker 8] (3:16:41 - 3:16:44)
What about the fourteenth? Or you wanna just push it to the twentieth?

[Speaker 1] (3:16:44 - 3:16:49)
What I guess my first question would be, since you have multiple committees, what is your availability?

[Speaker 7] (3:16:50 - 3:16:57)
Um so October fourteenth um there's a placeholder for open space and rec. Uh um but

[Speaker 7] (3:16:58 - 3:17:02)
It potentially, I don't know if that's confirmed, and potentially Margie could be there.

[Speaker 4] (3:17:02 - 3:17:09)
Can we flip this? What is the agenda without specific property names looking like for October?

[Speaker 7] (3:17:11 - 3:17:12)
Um as of right now,

[Speaker 7] (3:17:14 - 3:17:17)
there's the um one administrative review item

[Speaker 4] (3:17:17 - 3:17:18)
That's all that we're aware

[Speaker 7] (3:17:18 - 3:17:18)
that

[Speaker 4] (3:17:18 - 3:17:18)
of.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:18 - 3:17:20)
I know of so far. It doesn't

[Speaker 4] (3:17:20 - 3:17:20)
That's

[Speaker 7] (3:17:20 - 3:17:21)
doesn't

[Speaker 4] (3:17:21 - 3:17:21)
fine.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:21 - 3:17:22)
mean that

[Speaker 4] (3:17:22 - 3:17:22)
We're still like

[Speaker 7] (3:17:22 - 3:17:23)
we're not going to get two more.

[Speaker 4] (3:17:23 - 3:17:25)
weeks away from a deadline though, but I'm sure you would have.

[Speaker 4] (3:17:26 - 3:17:29)
started to hear from lawyers or something if somebody if something was coming through?

[Speaker 7] (3:17:29 - 3:17:30)
Yeah, I I

[Speaker 4] (3:17:30 - 3:17:31)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:31 - 3:17:34)
think I haven't heard anything else. It doesn't mean it's not gonna happen.

[Speaker 4] (3:17:34 - 3:17:34)
I

[Speaker 7] (3:17:34 - 3:17:35)
But yeah,

[Speaker 4] (3:17:35 - 3:17:35)
would

[Speaker 7] (3:17:35 - 3:17:35)
it's

[Speaker 4] (3:17:35 - 3:17:45)
be a curious everyone's thoughts. I think the 20th is I would like to move to the 20th. I just think giving a little more runway if the capture is one more project in October,

[Speaker 4] (3:17:45 - 3:17:47)
that's one project off of November's agenda.

[Speaker 4] (3:17:50 - 3:17:51)
But I'm open to your feedback and availability.

[Speaker 7] (3:17:51 - 3:17:54)
fine with me. I just I want to

[Speaker 8] (3:17:55 - 3:17:59)
I just want to carve in some time to talk about the signs, 'cause that's a you know

[Speaker 4] (3:17:59 - 3:18:00)
Totally.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:00 - 3:18:06)
Is there anything that we are rushing to have together for special town meeting? Is

[Speaker 8] (3:18:06 - 3:18:06)
Not

[Speaker 1] (3:18:06 - 3:18:06)
there

[Speaker 8] (3:18:06 - 3:18:06)
special.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:06 - 3:18:06)
a s

[Speaker 8] (3:18:06 - 3:18:08)
We wouldn't do anything

[Speaker 4] (3:18:08 - 3:18:08)
There is,

[Speaker 8] (3:18:08 - 3:18:08)
for special.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:08 - 3:18:09)
but we're not gonna do any.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:09 - 3:18:09)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (3:18:09 - 3:18:10)
Next May.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:10 - 3:18:10)
But

[Speaker 8] (3:18:10 - 3:18:13)
And we if we just you know we need time for that too.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:14 - 3:18:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:14 - 3:18:18)
I and and so that would be the twentieth.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:19 - 3:18:22)
Is the twentieth better than the fourteenth?

[Speaker 4] (3:18:22 - 3:18:24)
gives another almost

[Speaker 1] (3:18:29 - 3:18:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (3:18:29 - 3:18:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:29 - 3:18:32)
We v have our application cut off two weeks ahead of time. So it gives

[Speaker 3] (3:18:32 - 3:18:32)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:32 - 3:18:34)
six days six more days.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:34 - 3:18:34)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:34 - 3:18:35)
So that's my point.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:35 - 3:18:35)
Another Monday.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:36 - 3:18:37)
And it puts

[Speaker 1] (3:18:37 - 3:18:39)
back But is that, is that publicized?

[Speaker 2] (3:18:39 - 3:18:39)
Mm?

[Speaker 4] (3:18:39 - 3:18:40)
Mm.

[Speaker 5] (3:18:40 - 3:18:43)
It doesn't it also doesn't enter with the release because they're Monday, Saturday.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:43 - 3:18:44)
Yeah, that's okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:45 - 3:18:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:45 - 3:18:45)
There's a

[Speaker 1] (3:18:45 - 3:18:46)
Oh.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:46 - 3:18:47)
zoning's on Tuesdays?

[Speaker 4] (3:18:47 - 3:18:48)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (3:18:48 - 3:18:48)
Oh my god.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:48 - 3:18:48)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:48 - 3:18:49)
Yep, zoning's tomorrow.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:49 - 3:18:50)
Okay, got it.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:50 - 3:18:50)
But

[Speaker 5] (3:18:50 - 3:18:51)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:51 - 3:18:55)
um yeah, we don't have any meetings on the twentieth. So

[Speaker 2] (3:18:55 - 3:18:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:18:55 - 3:18:56)
if you

[Speaker 2] (3:18:56 - 3:18:56)
That was my

[Speaker 4] (3:18:56 - 3:18:57)
don't do the twentieth that's okay.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:57 - 3:18:59)
That was my thinking, Jerry, if it gets

[Speaker 1] (3:18:59 - 3:18:59)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (3:18:59 - 3:19:02)
that six days gets somebody in our October meeting rather than our

[Speaker 1] (3:19:02 - 3:19:02)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (3:19:02 - 3:19:02)
November meeting.

[Speaker 1] (3:19:02 - 3:19:03)
that's good.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:03 - 3:19:03)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (3:19:04 - 3:19:06)
Did we decancel another meeting that came along with it?

[Speaker 2] (3:19:07 - 3:19:09)
That would be the one to cancel right before

[Speaker 6] (3:19:09 - 3:19:09)
Uh.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:09 - 3:19:09)
our holidays.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:12 - 3:19:14)
I don't know if you have to vote on that or I don't

[Speaker 2] (3:19:14 - 3:19:15)
Do um

[Speaker 4] (3:19:15 - 3:19:16)
think so. Oh, no, okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:16 - 3:19:16)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (3:19:16 - 3:19:17)
Oh.

[Speaker 5] (3:19:17 - 3:19:18)
We just need to agree on

[Speaker 2] (3:19:18 - 3:19:20)
Did everyone sign the mylar for

[Speaker 5] (3:19:20 - 3:19:20)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:20 - 3:19:20)
the

[Speaker 6] (3:19:20 - 3:19:22)
Yeah, well I didn't I wasn't signing

[Speaker 2] (3:19:22 - 3:19:22)
You

[Speaker 6] (3:19:22 - 3:19:22)
it.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:22 - 3:19:22)
didn't,

[Speaker 6] (3:19:22 - 3:19:22)
I wasn't there.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:22 - 3:19:24)
you weren't there, but everyone else is signed.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:24 - 3:19:25)
Yeah, they already it's

[Speaker 5] (3:19:25 - 3:19:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (3:19:25 - 3:19:25)
All good?

[Speaker 5] (3:19:25 - 3:19:25)
is.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:25 - 3:19:26)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (3:19:26 - 3:19:26)
it's good.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:26 - 3:19:26)
Perfect.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:28 - 3:19:29)
Motion to adjourn.

[Speaker 1] (3:19:29 - 3:19:30)
So move.

[Speaker 6] (3:19:30 - 3:19:30)
So moved.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:30 - 3:19:30)
Second?

[Speaker 1] (3:19:30 - 3:19:31)
Second.

[Speaker 2] (3:19:31 - 3:19:31)
Alright.

[Speaker 1] (3:19:31 - 3:19:31)
Second.

[Speaker 6] (3:19:32 - 3:19:33)
Thank you all. We're out of here.