[Speaker 1] (6:05 - 6:12)
Oh, we're good? Okay. Alright, we'll try that again. Uh okay, we're gonna start tonight's meeting and we will start with roll call. Angela, can you hear us?

[Speaker 2] (6:13 - 6:14)
Yes I can. Can you hear me?

[Speaker 3] (6:14 - 6:15)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 4] (6:16 - 6:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (6:17 - 6:17)
Loud and clear.

[Speaker 2] (6:18 - 6:18)
Sorry.

[Speaker 1] (6:19 - 6:21)
Could you turn it up a little bit? Now it's a little too And soft.

[Speaker 2] (6:21 - 6:22)
Joanna Palermo here.

[Speaker 1] (6:22 - 6:23)
I think there we go. Okay.

[Speaker 3] (6:24 - 6:26)
Jerry, you wanna just go down the line?

[Speaker 4] (6:26 - 6:28)
Uh Jer Germa, present.

[Speaker 1] (6:28 - 6:29)
Joe Sheridan.

[Speaker 5] (6:30 - 6:31)
Arianne Pardee present.

[Speaker 1] (6:32 - 6:34)
Welcome, Ariane, our newest member.

[Speaker 5] (6:34 - 6:35)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (6:35 - 6:39)
Um alright, so should we wait for Bill or I th

[Speaker 5] (6:41 - 6:41)
Yeah, hold on.

[Speaker 5] (6:43 - 6:44)
One moment.

[Speaker 2] (6:44 - 6:45)
Another minute maybe.

[Speaker 2] (6:46 - 6:50)
He gets tied up in, you know, traffic a lot, his time of night, so.

[Speaker 2] (6:53 - 6:57)
Well, I wonder if I should text him. I can't imagine he was caught up in all that stuff in Cambridge,

[Speaker 2] (6:58 - 6:58)
so.

[Speaker 3] (6:59 - 6:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (7:01 - 7:02)
Is it an issue,

[Speaker 3] (7:02 - 7:04)
Christy, if we go out of order on?

[Speaker 5] (7:06 - 7:10)
You could start potentially with approval of past meeting minutes.

[Speaker 3] (7:10 - 7:12)
Yeah, let's just, let's do that.

[Speaker 3] (7:12 - 7:14)
Oh, yeah, sure.

[Speaker 3] (7:15 - 7:15)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (7:16 - 7:16)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (7:17 - 7:24)
Um so we'll move to approval of the past meeting minutes. Um I don't know if everybody had a chance to look at them. They're

[Speaker 1] (7:25 - 7:29)
a bit long. Uh so I was thinking maybe um

[Speaker 1] (7:31 - 7:46)
If folks did have a chance to look at them, then we could provide those comments, if not maybe given the length of them we uh we just let everybody know that they're there, they can send you comments Christa and then that the next meeting we can approve them all if that works.

[Speaker 4] (7:46 - 7:47)
Is that okay?

[Speaker 5] (7:48 - 7:48)
Yeah, I

[Speaker 4] (7:48 - 7:49)
Perfect.

[Speaker 1] (7:51 - 7:54)
I think that would be better than us reading it, you know, live. Um

[Speaker 5] (7:54 - 7:54)
Okay

[Speaker 1] (7:54 - 7:55)
uh

[Speaker 2] (7:59 - 7:59)
Yeah, that would be good.

[Speaker 2] (8:00 - 8:06)
Are we going to email Krista that we read them or I think we still need to take a vote to approve

[Speaker 1] (8:06 - 8:06)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (8:06 - 8:06)
them.

[Speaker 1] (8:06 - 8:07)
we'll still take a vote to

[Speaker 3] (8:07 - 8:07)
Next

[Speaker 1] (8:07 - 8:07)
approve,

[Speaker 3] (8:07 - 8:07)
week.

[Speaker 1] (8:07 - 8:10)
but if everybody could just review them, and if you have any comments,

[Speaker 1] (8:11 - 8:14)
send them in. If you don't send them in, we'll just assume no comments, and then Krista

[Speaker 2] (8:14 - 8:15)
Sounds good.

[Speaker 1] (8:15 - 8:17)
can, you can send us around track changes or something.

[Speaker 5] (8:17 - 8:17)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (8:17 - 8:18)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (8:30 - 8:30)
Oh, what do So you think?

[Speaker 5] (8:30 - 8:36)
I have not heard from Bill yet. Angela, I don't know if you've had a chance to hear from him.

[Speaker 2] (8:37 - 8:39)
Yeah, let me try Jackson again.

[Speaker 5] (8:39 - 8:40)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (8:44 - 8:50)
I feel like we could at least probably move on to 80 Puritans since we've, you know, heard that one before.

[Speaker 1] (8:52 - 8:53)
So let's do that.

[Speaker 1] (8:54 - 8:54)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (8:55 - 9:02)
So then we will open the hearing for Petition 2521,

[Speaker 1] (9:02 - 9:19)
80 Puritan Road by Scott B. Miller requesting a site plan special permit to construct a porch and a new gabled roof resulting in approximately 754 square feet of additional living area within the top story of the existing structure in the A3 Zoning District at 80 Puritan Road.

[Speaker 1] (9:19 - 9:31)
Um and uh I know that you submitted the new plans, uh so thank you for doing that. Uh I don't know if you wanna, you know, add anything, or you don't have to, but

[Speaker 6] (9:33 - 9:39)
Yeah, I submitted the new plans, uh I d we there was an issue on the square footage uh

[Speaker 1] (9:39 - 9:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (9:39 - 9:42)
so we got that at seven forty eight exactly.

[Speaker 1] (9:42 - 9:42)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (9:42 - 9:44)
So that and

[Speaker 6] (9:45 - 9:47)
I don't know if there was an issue on the height,

[Speaker 6] (9:47 - 9:49)
but that's in the site plan as well.

[Speaker 1] (9:49 - 9:50)
Yeah, okay

[Speaker 2] (9:50 - 9:58)
No, I think the issue on the height was simply the calculations that look different on various plans.

[Speaker 1] (10:04 - 10:06)
go ahead sorry Joe

[Speaker 2] (10:06 - 10:17)
I was just going to say, with that then, I was actually going to ask you and Angela if you had any further comments,

[Speaker 2] (10:17 - 10:18)
because I feel like on this one,

[Speaker 2] (10:18 - 10:21)
that was sort of what we were down to.

[Speaker 2] (10:21 - 10:22)
Uh.

[Speaker 1] (10:22 - 10:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (10:24 - 10:25)
I mean, I still,

[Speaker 1] (10:25 - 10:33)
I'm just going to look at this again because I calculated again off the drawings that you just sent us on the sixth.

[Speaker 1] (10:33 - 10:42)
And I gotta say, I'm still getting a different number and, you know, I just don't know.

[Speaker 1] (10:44 - 10:48)
I think I'm doing it the right way. I mean, I'm doing it the way I'd calculate anything else.

[Speaker 1] (10:49 - 10:53)
But I'm still coming to a total of 858 square feet,

[Speaker 1] (10:53 - 10:59)
which is basically 104 feet over where you're allowed to be.

[Speaker 1] (11:00 - 11:14)
And I'm even looking in the bylaws to see if we have any wiggle room on this, and I just don't see it because it's actually in the definitions and descriptions that...

[Speaker 1] (11:14 - 11:16)
You know, it's not a number that we,

[Speaker 1] (11:16 - 11:23)
it's not listed as a dimensional regulation that the zoning board can grant any relief on.

[Speaker 1] (11:25 - 11:26)
You know, I just,

[Speaker 1] (11:26 - 11:27)
I don't know.

[Speaker 1] (11:27 - 11:28)
And Jared,

[Speaker 1] (11:28 - 11:31)
I don't know if you've had a chance to take a look at it because I don't want to be the only one

[Speaker 2] (11:31 - 11:31)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (11:31 - 11:32)
causing

[Speaker 2] (11:32 - 11:33)
what it's confusing

[Speaker 1] (11:33 - 11:33)
a

[Speaker 2] (11:33 - 11:33)
is problem I'm

[Speaker 1] (11:33 - 11:33)
here.

[Speaker 2] (11:33 - 11:40)
not seeing the change because the seven foot two height.

[Speaker 2] (11:42 - 11:45)
Has the floor plan diminished?

[Speaker 3] (11:45 - 11:47)
Yeah, he shrank it. Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (11:47 - 11:52)
And then you got to take out the closets and, you know, any sloping areas.

[Speaker 3] (11:52 - 11:54)
So once you do that,

[Speaker 3] (11:54 - 11:59)
you know, that's when he got down to 748.

[Speaker 2] (12:01 - 12:03)
But you calculated and it's not 748,

[Speaker 2] (12:04 - 12:05)
Angela?

[Speaker 1] (12:06 - 12:12)
Right, I got 858, yeah I got 858 and I used basically,

[Speaker 1] (12:12 - 12:29)
so I'm going to tell you what I used just so that we're, you know, you have a right to know exactly how I went about this. So if you want to take a look at your 810, the drawing 810 on your plan stated 5.6.

[Speaker 1] (12:31 - 12:33)
So I'm looking at your third floor.

[Speaker 1] (12:52 - 12:53)
Just let me know when you're

[Speaker 2] (12:53 - 12:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (12:53 - 12:53)
there and

[Speaker 2] (12:53 - 12:53)
yeah,

[Speaker 1] (12:53 - 12:54)
then I can tell you how.

[Speaker 2] (12:54 - 12:55)
yeah, go ahead Angela

[Speaker 1] (12:55 - 12:55)
Okay,

[Speaker 1] (12:56 - 13:00)
so as you're looking at it, I first calculated the transept area,

[Speaker 1] (13:00 - 13:02)
okay, so left to right,

[Speaker 1] (13:02 - 13:03)
a bedroom,

[Speaker 1] (13:03 - 13:08)
you know, hallway into the extension of the room, not including the deck,

[Speaker 1] (13:08 - 13:11)
and I was basically using 10 feet by,

[Speaker 1] (13:12 - 13:14)
what is that,

[Speaker 1] (13:14 - 13:16)
35 feet,

[Speaker 1] (13:16 - 13:17)
eight and a half inches.

[Speaker 1] (13:18 - 13:37)
based on that count I took that rectangular space which is kind of the cleanest space there and based on that I got 358 within you know an inch a half an inch or so square feet okay then I went box by box I did the living area just the living area

[Speaker 1] (13:37 - 13:46)
which would be 18 feet three and a half inches by 15 feet one and a half inches and I did that calculation and

[Speaker 4] (13:46 - 13:47)
Angela, there's

[Speaker 1] (13:47 - 13:48)
I thought yes yeah

[Speaker 4] (13:48 - 14:05)
an error in that, though. It's actually an error or it's sort of a random thing on the drawing that that 18 foot three and a half, if you look at the arrows that are attached to it, that is landing in some random spot in the hall or in the in the eaves.

[Speaker 1] (14:07 - 14:10)
So how much am I looking at probably more like

[Speaker 4] (14:11 - 14:20)
Well, there's no there's no dimension lines on it, but if you did the twelve if you did the twelve and a half on the other right,

[Speaker 1] (14:20 - 14:25)
It's 12 feet 8 and a half inches which is much narrower than the other one.

[Speaker 4] (14:25 - 14:27)
but if you if you.

[Speaker 1] (14:29 - 14:29)
Let's

[Speaker 4] (14:29 - 14:29)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (14:29 - 14:33)
even say 13 feet for argument's sake just I understand where you're going with

[Speaker 4] (14:33 - 14:34)
there's a lot of dimensions missing,

[Speaker 4] (14:34 - 14:43)
but if you called that out at 14 feet and then calc'd it, you'd be getting closer. I don't know what those,

[Speaker 4] (14:43 - 14:45)
I think that's just a measurement error.

[Speaker 1] (14:45 - 14:51)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're right and so I'm still looking at 15 feet one and a half inches

[Speaker 1] (14:52 - 14:54)
on the depth into the building,

[Speaker 1] (14:54 - 14:55)
correct?

[Speaker 1] (14:55 - 14:56)
That looks like that

[Speaker 4] (14:56 - 14:56)
That

[Speaker 1] (14:56 - 14:56)
would be...

[Speaker 4] (14:56 - 15:02)
15 and a half is correct, and the back 17 foot one and a half is correct.

[Speaker 5] (15:03 - 15:06)
Some of this seems to be legacy because the section is still showing that 18,

[Speaker 5] (15:06 - 15:09)
three and a half being occupiable space on the on the building.

[Speaker 5] (15:10 - 15:11)
That's SL1.

[Speaker 5] (15:12 - 15:15)
So that's probably where that 18, three and a half is coming in.

[Speaker 4] (15:15 - 15:16)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (15:16 - 15:16)
That

[Speaker 4] (15:16 - 15:16)
I mean.

[Speaker 5] (15:16 - 15:18)
was got transposed on the plan.

[Speaker 1] (15:19 - 15:19)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (15:19 - 15:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (15:19 - 15:20)
Yeah, and this section,

[Speaker 4] (15:21 - 15:22)
I

[Speaker 1] (15:22 - 15:22)
yeah,

[Speaker 4] (15:22 - 15:23)
mean,

[Speaker 1] (15:23 - 15:24)
right.

[Speaker 4] (15:24 - 15:30)
this is this has not been altered from the last the last time because it's is showing that there's the 18,

[Speaker 5] (15:30 - 15:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (15:30 - 15:31)
three and a half. You're right.

[Speaker 5] (15:31 - 15:32)
Probably it just got transposed

[Speaker 4] (15:32 - 15:32)
And and again,

[Speaker 5] (15:32 - 15:32)
on there.

[Speaker 4] (15:32 - 15:39)
I think the conversation we had is this is showing the top of the wall at seven foot two,

[Speaker 4] (15:39 - 15:42)
which isn't necessary.

[Speaker 4] (15:43 - 15:46)
So you're it sort of has been over reduced.

[Speaker 4] (15:47 - 15:48)
um where

[Speaker 1] (15:48 - 15:49)
But is it seven three,

[Speaker 1] (15:49 - 15:49)
Chair?

[Speaker 4] (15:50 - 15:51)
I'm sorry what well

[Speaker 1] (15:51 - 15:53)
Is it seven three that we're looking at?

[Speaker 4] (15:54 - 16:03)
it's seven foot two but but you can slope a wall before that I mean it doesn't that doesn't have to be the lowest point on a wall to to use the space

[Speaker 1] (16:03 - 16:05)
I know in the cross-division. Right,

[Speaker 1] (16:05 - 16:06)
but of course we're

[Speaker 4] (16:06 - 16:07)
to measure it

[Speaker 1] (16:07 - 16:08)
measuring it as, that's right.

[Speaker 1] (16:08 - 16:10)
And that's what matters is what I'm measuring.

[Speaker 4] (16:10 - 16:12)
yeah but I think I think where

[Speaker 4] (16:14 - 16:24)
Like the way in which to maximize the usable space was actually to shorten the building.

[Speaker 4] (16:27 - 16:29)
And then bring the height of that knee,

[Speaker 4] (16:29 - 16:33)
you've got a quote-unquote knee wall at 7 foot 2,

[Speaker 4] (16:33 - 16:34)
which isn't necessary.

[Speaker 4] (16:34 - 16:36)
And it's in,

[Speaker 4] (16:36 - 16:38)
you know, especially the main living space in there,

[Speaker 4] (16:38 - 16:45)
it's in a room that has studio ceilings. So that could be, we

[Speaker 4] (16:48 - 16:50)
are measuring where the 7 foot 2 is,

[Speaker 4] (16:51 - 16:54)
but that 7 foot 2 could be on the ceiling plane, not on the wall plane.

[Speaker 4] (16:55 - 17:00)
in order to calculate that space so we wouldn't be calculating the space under 7 foot 2 so

[Speaker 3] (17:00 - 17:01)
Right, I know that.

[Speaker 4] (17:01 - 17:02)
you don't

[Speaker 5] (17:02 - 17:02)
I

[Speaker 4] (17:02 - 17:02)
need to

[Speaker 5] (17:02 - 17:03)
need pull the wall

[Speaker 4] (17:03 - 17:15)
the you don't need to pull the walls in you need to pull the ceiling down and you're you're not going to perceive it because you still have the the the raised ceiling

[Speaker 3] (17:15 - 17:16)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (17:20 - 17:24)
But it as as this is the set isn't matching between section and plan.

[Speaker 2] (17:25 - 17:26)
So what isn't matching?

[Speaker 4] (17:27 - 17:31)
So if you if you look go to um S_O_ one.

[Speaker 2] (17:32 - 17:32)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (17:33 - 17:37)
This is a a section of the building and it's showing the walls here.

[Speaker 2] (17:37 - 17:38)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (17:38 - 17:38)
In 18 feet

[Speaker 4] (17:38 - 17:39)
At

[Speaker 5] (17:39 - 17:39)
three.

[Speaker 4] (17:39 - 17:42)
18 foot there's the 18 foot. Now if you go over here

[Speaker 1] (17:42 - 17:42)
I,

[Speaker 4] (17:42 - 17:47)
There's the dimension of the eighteen foot, but it's measured between that line

[Speaker 5] (17:47 - 17:47)
Happened

[Speaker 4] (17:47 - 17:47)
and in this

[Speaker 5] (17:47 - 17:48)
arbitrarily,

[Speaker 4] (17:48 - 17:48)
line,

[Speaker 1] (17:48 - 17:48)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (17:48 - 17:48)
yeah.

[Speaker 4] (17:48 - 17:48)
which

[Speaker 2] (17:48 - 17:49)
I see.

[Speaker 4] (17:49 - 17:50)
is arbitrary.

[Speaker 5] (17:52 - 17:59)
So they so they reduced the plan but didn't match the dimension lines up with the reduced space.

[Speaker 1] (18:00 - 18:11)
Right. So, you know, therefore what I'm getting is is something that's a hundred and four feet in excess of the fifty percent and the issue here is that

[Speaker 1] (18:12 - 18:13)
You know, we,

[Speaker 1] (18:13 - 18:16)
the plan doesn't have any, we don't have any waiver on housing yet.

[Speaker 2] (18:23 - 18:23)
Sorry, Angela,

[Speaker 2] (18:23 - 18:24)
say that again.

[Speaker 1] (18:25 - 18:38)
We don't have the capacity to waive that 50% and I'm just looking at if zoning can use it, can waive it under dimensional relief and I don't see that in here either,

[Speaker 1] (18:38 - 18:38)
so.

[Speaker 1] (18:39 - 18:39)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (18:40 - 18:48)
you know, I just don't see it anywhere where I'm, the only thing I see is the regulation about what a half story is.

[Speaker 1] (18:48 - 18:52)
And a half story is 50% of the floor beneath it,

[Speaker 1] (18:53 - 18:56)
50% or less of the floor beneath it.

[Speaker 1] (18:56 - 18:58)
And it's a definition,

[Speaker 1] (18:58 - 19:00)
it's in the bylaw, there's just, there's no,

[Speaker 1] (19:00 - 19:03)
there's nothing in there that comes under.

[Speaker 1] (19:04 - 19:13)
um that allows us to create any kind of dimensional relief not that i could find i mean krista i you know maybe you could look at this in a different light but i just don't see it no

[Speaker 2] (19:13 - 19:17)
Well, I don't think, but we don't need to create dimensional relief,

[Speaker 2] (19:17 - 19:17)
right?

[Speaker 2] (19:17 - 19:18)
Like,

[Speaker 1] (19:18 - 19:22)
but i mean i'm just saying that you know we keep coming back to this point and it's just

[Speaker 2] (19:23 - 19:25)
The, you know.

[Speaker 2] (19:26 - 19:27)
The issue is that the building

[Speaker 3] (19:27 - 19:27)
So

[Speaker 2] (19:27 - 19:27)
really shouldn't

[Speaker 3] (19:27 - 19:27)
zoning

[Speaker 2] (19:27 - 19:28)
be built

[Speaker 3] (19:28 - 19:28)
allows you to do it?

[Speaker 2] (19:28 - 19:31)
if at the end of the day uh I it

[Speaker 3] (19:31 - 19:32)
don't know how

[Speaker 2] (19:32 - 19:32)
doesn't

[Speaker 3] (19:32 - 19:32)
the

[Speaker 2] (19:32 - 19:32)
line

[Speaker 3] (19:32 - 19:33)
zoning

[Speaker 2] (19:33 - 19:35)
up with the uh with

[Speaker 5] (19:36 - 19:36)
I do think

[Speaker 2] (19:36 - 19:36)
the space

[Speaker 5] (19:36 - 19:37)
it might

[Speaker 2] (19:37 - 19:37)
requirements and the zoning.

[Speaker 5] (19:37 - 19:45)
be reduced though just as the dimensions are off. So like if you did, if we had the dimensions correct,

[Speaker 5] (19:45 - 19:48)
it might be a come, it might come out to the 748.

[Speaker 1] (19:48 - 19:54)
Okay, so in other words, you think if they sort of re-measured it and recalculated their measurements

[Speaker 2] (19:56 - 19:57)
I think Jair's

[Speaker 1] (19:57 - 19:58)
that's not going

[Speaker 2] (19:58 - 19:58)
right.

[Speaker 1] (19:58 - 19:58)
to make a difference.

[Speaker 2] (19:58 - 20:07)
If you look at that 12.8 and a half at the top and you just assume that that living now is supposed to be 12.8 and a half and we start to do the math that way, I think it's going to come out.

[Speaker 3] (20:08 - 20:11)
Yeah, I guess that's sort of that's right.

[Speaker 3] (20:11 - 20:16)
And I think that's sort of my point too is that what you know, I think we can approve it

[Speaker 3] (20:16 - 20:19)
probably conditioning it on the

[Speaker 2] (20:19 - 20:19)
745.

[Speaker 3] (20:19 - 20:23)
fact that these are cleaned up and that a building permit can't be pulled,

[Speaker 3] (20:23 - 20:25)
you know, which it can't be pulled anyways,

[Speaker 3] (20:25 - 20:30)
unless the plan satisfied the intensity requirements.

[Speaker 4] (20:32 - 20:39)
What is the intent of the half story?

[Speaker 4] (20:43 - 20:52)
square footage limitations because it appears to me that that is like the intent of that is to minimize building height so

[Speaker 1] (20:52 - 21:00)
And it's more than minimize the massing in residential zones. It's like that everywhere in all of the residential zones.

[Speaker 4] (21:01 - 21:09)
I guess the reason I'm bringing that up is by pulling the walls in without lowering the building

[Speaker 4] (21:10 - 21:18)
There's the it completely defeats the purpose of the intent of minimizing the massing because what we're doing.

[Speaker 1] (21:18 - 21:22)
And the cupola on top too, so that makes it look kind of, you know, very tall.

[Speaker 4] (21:22 - 21:27)
I'll be I'll be frank with you. The cupola is balanced because it's in the center of the mass.

[Speaker 4] (21:27 - 21:31)
These are the these are the pieces that come to the edges of the mass.

[Speaker 4] (21:31 - 21:35)
So by not lowering the roof.

[Speaker 4] (21:37 - 21:49)
And just reducing what we carve out as living space inside of it, it's counter to why that law is there.

[Speaker 1] (21:49 - 21:50)
Right. Well,

[Speaker 1] (21:50 - 21:52)
regardless of why it is there,

[Speaker 1] (21:52 - 21:54)
you know, and I hear you, Jared,

[Speaker 1] (21:54 - 21:59)
I think in a perfect world we have a very logical explanation.

[Speaker 1] (22:02 - 22:05)
I have no answer for you. I don't know if it's in mass building code.

[Speaker 1] (22:05 - 22:07)
I can take a look there.

[Speaker 3] (22:07 - 22:14)
Yeah, I guess my point there, though, is that that's a little bit outside of our – that's not within our scope tonight.

[Speaker 4] (22:15 - 22:19)
But is everyone comfortable with the height as

[Speaker 3] (22:19 - 22:19)
Well,

[Speaker 3] (22:19 - 22:20)
I think that's something that

[Speaker 4] (22:20 - 22:20)
it's

[Speaker 3] (22:20 - 22:20)
the building

[Speaker 4] (22:20 - 22:20)
calculated?

[Speaker 3] (22:20 - 22:22)
department has to – well.

[Speaker 3] (22:23 - 22:23)
I mean,

[Speaker 5] (22:23 - 22:24)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (22:24 - 22:24)
yeah.

[Speaker 5] (22:24 - 22:24)
and the

[Speaker 3] (22:24 - 22:24)
That's

[Speaker 5] (22:24 - 22:25)
building

[Speaker 3] (22:25 - 22:25)
not going.

[Speaker 5] (22:25 - 22:27)
commissioner has reviewed these plans.

[Speaker 3] (22:27 - 22:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (22:28 - 22:29)
The built, I'm sorry, what?

[Speaker 5] (22:29 - 22:31)
The building commissioner has reviewed these plans.

[Speaker 4] (22:31 - 22:32)
So the,

[Speaker 4] (22:32 - 22:38)
because the height calculation has to be based on the dormer because

[Speaker 1] (22:38 - 22:38)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (22:38 - 22:46)
of, so it's from the top, so it's the 34 foot 5, which is the center line.

[Speaker 4] (22:46 - 22:49)
between the top and the bottom of the dormer because we

[Speaker 1] (22:49 - 22:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (22:49 - 22:56)
had talked about trying to lower the house and bringing that down so the calculation would also bring us a lower height there.

[Speaker 4] (22:56 - 23:03)
The cupola is not going to be counted in because it's mechanical ventilation.

[Speaker 4] (23:04 - 23:09)
So, I mean, we can do this, but I'm just going to state that

[Speaker 4] (23:10 - 23:26)
You know, it's it's more than just what the word of it is, it's what the intent of it is. And if the intent is to keep the massing and we're concerned about the massing next to the neighbouring buildings, um just to like move this forward,

[Speaker 4] (23:26 - 23:37)
I don't think it's it's great policy on our part, um because it is a case where we have a number of concerns and we also have a set that is inconsistent.

[Speaker 4] (23:38 - 23:46)
So if it's built off section, it's gonna be one thing, if it's built off plan, it's gonna be another thing. And, you know, this is from a professional

[Speaker 4] (23:47 - 23:48)
and it's

[Speaker 4] (23:49 - 24:04)
it's it's just a I I do really have a problem saying to stamp it and move it forward. Um we keep coming back to it, but the problems don't get solved. So that's where my that's where my concerns are.

[Speaker 3] (24:05 - 24:06)
That's fair.

[Speaker 3] (24:06 - 24:11)
I'm going to, let's put a pin in this for a second. I'm just going to open it up to public comment.

[Speaker 3] (24:13 - 24:15)
I'll start in the room.

[Speaker 3] (24:15 - 24:18)
Is there anybody here on this?

[Speaker 3] (24:19 - 24:20)
No?

[Speaker 3] (24:20 - 24:24)
Okay. Is anybody online here to speak about this petition?

[Speaker 3] (24:35 - 24:36)
If not, then um

[Speaker 2] (24:38 - 24:38)
I mean the other

[Speaker 3] (24:38 - 24:38)
we

[Speaker 2] (24:38 - 24:38)
caveat

[Speaker 3] (24:38 - 24:39)
can leave this

[Speaker 2] (24:39 - 24:44)
here is that Krista and I talked in I since it's a continuation I shouldn't be voting on this

[Speaker 5] (24:44 - 24:45)
Yeah, exactly,

[Speaker 2] (24:45 - 24:46)
well without

[Speaker 5] (24:46 - 24:46)
so

[Speaker 2] (24:46 - 24:47)
bill here too

[Speaker 5] (24:47 - 24:53)
for Bill needs to be here for an approval vote because it requires four voting members.

[Speaker 3] (24:54 - 24:54)
No word from Bill.

[Speaker 1] (24:55 - 25:01)
No, I didn't hear but I didn't hear back. I'll check my email too just to be

[Speaker 1] (25:03 - 25:03)
Sure.

[Speaker 3] (25:06 - 25:07)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (25:09 - 25:10)
Now I didn't get anything from him.

[Speaker 3] (25:14 - 25:16)
All right. So at

[Speaker 3] (25:18 - 25:20)
a minimum, I guess we would have to continue this anyways.

[Speaker 3] (25:20 - 25:25)
I would like to try to get this petition done since it's been.

[Speaker 3] (25:26 - 25:26)
In

[Speaker 1] (25:26 - 25:26)
We

[Speaker 3] (25:26 - 25:26)
front

[Speaker 1] (25:26 - 25:26)
have months,

[Speaker 3] (25:26 - 25:35)
of us for quite some time. I mean, I you know, as far as as far as I'm concerned, like I feel like you know we there's there's been a lot of improvement from where we started.

[Speaker 3] (25:36 - 25:43)
I I hear what you're saying sure about the inconsistencies, but they don't seem

[Speaker 3] (25:44 - 25:50)
so material to me given all the other site plan special permit conditions.

[Speaker 3] (25:51 - 25:53)
And even though it sort of goes without saying.

[Speaker 3] (25:54 - 26:07)
I'd be willing to approve this as it is, just under the condition which isn't even really necessary that, you know, the building permit can't be issued until consistent plans are presented,

[Speaker 3] (26:07 - 26:21)
and we could I w I would say that it has to conform with the exterior, you know, the there can't be any changes made to whatever we're showing here for the exterior, because that really goes to what is in our jurisdiction in terms of making sure that um

[Speaker 3] (26:22 - 26:27)
You know, the project's appropriate for the neighborhood and its character and that sort of thing.

[Speaker 1] (26:28 - 26:46)
So I would, you know, if we were to do that, then I'd want to make a motion that said we could, we could, you know, approve a site plan special permit under these set conditions and the set conditions determined by the planning board would be that.

[Speaker 1] (26:47 - 26:53)
that you know we confirm that the height is that the height the height measurements

[Speaker 1] (26:54 - 26:55)
From every plan set,

[Speaker 1] (26:56 - 27:15)
you know, the most recent plan sets matching with the, you know, each floor matching to each floor on this, excuse me, May 6 set of plans have the identical locations of where the measurement was taken from. And in other words, the 34 feet,

[Speaker 1] (27:16 - 27:19)
5 inches to the midline of the highest.

[Speaker 1] (27:20 - 27:23)
The dormer is consistent on every single drawing,

[Speaker 1] (27:23 - 27:26)
whether I'm looking at the side, the back, or the front,

[Speaker 1] (27:26 - 27:31)
and those in some drawings it's shown at a different level.

[Speaker 1] (27:32 - 27:34)
And on all of the other calculations,

[Speaker 1] (27:34 - 27:51)
specifically the calculations that show the reduction in the livable floor space on the third floor are corrected and recalculated to show exactly how they were calculated so that we have cleaned numbers there because I just,

[Speaker 1] (27:52 - 27:55)
you know, I understand how that mistake could have happened,

[Speaker 1] (27:55 - 27:58)
but I don't want to approve a plan that looks like that.

[Speaker 6] (27:58 - 28:00)
Can I make a quick comment?

[Speaker 3] (28:01 - 28:01)
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 6] (28:02 - 28:04)
We have a survey plan.

[Speaker 6] (28:04 - 28:08)
It says 29 feet from the average grade to the peak existing.

[Speaker 6] (28:10 - 28:12)
We're going to rip off the entire roof.

[Speaker 3] (28:12 - 28:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 6] (28:13 - 28:15)
So we have to go by the plans,

[Speaker 6] (28:16 - 28:20)
34.5 to that, you know, to the midpoint.

[Speaker 3] (28:21 - 28:22)
Yeah, I think I

[Speaker 6] (28:22 - 28:22)
So

[Speaker 3] (28:22 - 28:23)
think yeah,

[Speaker 6] (28:23 - 28:31)
you see what I'm saying? We're dealing with we have to do that. We have to have a survey at the end with those measurements.

[Speaker 3] (28:32 - 28:33)
I know I think what they're saying though.

[Speaker 3] (28:33 - 28:39)
Is that they're not sure given the discrepancies between it's shown the inside and the outside and

[Speaker 6] (28:39 - 28:40)
Well,

[Speaker 6] (28:40 - 28:43)
I think that's your biggest argument.

[Speaker 3] (28:45 - 28:47)
That is that that is the issue right?

[Speaker 3] (28:47 - 28:51)
I mean I think if those lined up then I think what you're I mean, you know

[Speaker 3] (28:53 - 28:55)
You're not hearing anything else. I'm not hearing anything else other than that right

[Speaker 4] (28:55 - 28:56)
Yeah

[Speaker 3] (28:56 - 28:56)
now, right?

[Speaker 3] (28:57 - 28:57)
But

[Speaker 1] (28:57 - 29:01)
You know, I'm willing to accept that the numbers work on the third floor.

[Speaker 1] (29:01 - 29:06)
Okay, I can understand that. I'm willing to accept it, but I want to see the proof.

[Speaker 1] (29:06 - 29:08)
I want to see the drawings,

[Speaker 1] (29:08 - 29:11)
you know, resubmitted, not looking any different.

[Speaker 1] (29:12 - 29:16)
I want to see these drawings with the correct measurements and the correct numbers on them.

[Speaker 1] (29:16 - 29:18)
And that they all,

[Speaker 1] (29:18 - 29:24)
you know, throughout the 758 that you're claiming is the size of the third floor.

[Speaker 1] (29:25 - 29:26)
And otherwise,

[Speaker 1] (29:26 - 29:32)
you know, I can't sign it because it's an indefensible plan for me. I mean, just I'm not comfortable doing that.

[Speaker 1] (29:34 - 29:39)
And if someone does ever contest it and say, well, this guy was able to do it, you know, why can't I?

[Speaker 1] (29:39 - 29:42)
We just can't. We can't. We have no way to defend that.

[Speaker 3] (29:45 - 29:48)
So you're saying you would not approve until there are new plans submitted?

[Speaker 1] (29:48 - 29:49)
No, no.

[Speaker 2] (29:48 - 29:52)
No, no, I'm willing to accept these plans,

[Speaker 1] (29:52 - 29:52)
long as

[Speaker 2] (29:52 - 29:55)
but I want that, I don't want it, I'd like to have,

[Speaker 2] (29:55 - 30:03)
you know, confirmation from Krista who can speak with the building inspector and be sure that all of these corrections are made.

[Speaker 1] (30:03 - 30:03)
Sure.

[Speaker 2] (30:03 - 30:04)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (30:04 - 30:05)
So you're saying, Angela,

[Speaker 1] (30:05 - 30:06)
that you'd be willing to approve,

[Speaker 1] (30:07 - 30:13)
but on the condition that these third floor plans are presented before the permits pulled that line

[Speaker 2] (30:13 - 30:13)
That's

[Speaker 1] (30:13 - 30:14)
up with everything else?

[Speaker 2] (30:14 - 30:16)
right. And that those numbers are clear and that they're true,

[Speaker 2] (30:16 - 30:19)
that they're showing the calculations that true after the number.

[Speaker 1] (30:19 - 30:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (30:21 - 30:25)
And then I'm fine. And then if Bridge signs up on it,

[Speaker 2] (30:25 - 30:29)
Krista can see it clearly then I'm okay releasing that.

[Speaker 2] (30:29 - 30:33)
I don't know what the rest of the board is but that would be all right with me okay

[Speaker 1] (30:35 - 30:38)
Okay, unfortunately Bill's not here,

[Speaker 1] (30:38 - 30:40)
so we can't approve this tonight.

[Speaker 2] (30:45 - 30:52)
so why don't we have them in that case so where are we going now do we have another meeting in May I know we have town meeting on next

[Speaker 1] (30:52 - 30:53)
I don't think we have another meeting.

[Speaker 2] (30:53 - 30:56)
week for God's sake yeah we have next week and then we don't have another meeting

[Speaker 2] (30:58 - 30:58)
Oh gosh,

[Speaker 2] (30:58 - 31:02)
one's our thing,

[Speaker 2] (31:04 - 31:06)
you just gotta have to get these plans right.

[Speaker 2] (31:06 - 31:12)
I'm sorry it's been such a slog but I just, you know, we're really trying to just get this straight.

[Speaker 2] (31:14 - 31:17)
And so the planning board's on June 8th. Do I have the right date for that?

[Speaker 3] (31:19 - 31:19)
That's correct.

[Speaker 2] (31:24 - 31:27)
Not here, and these are three of us, right,

[Speaker 2] (31:27 - 31:28)
because I can't vote.

[Speaker 1] (31:28 - 31:29)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (31:30 - 31:34)
So I think, you know, we would have to continue this anyways.

[Speaker 1] (31:34 - 31:38)
I think you've heard the position of everyone.

[Speaker 1] (31:39 - 31:45)
I think if in the interim it'd be possible to get plans that, you know, make everything to con tie together,

[Speaker 1] (31:45 - 31:48)
that would be helpful.

[Speaker 1] (31:50 - 31:50)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (31:50 - 31:52)
And now that you have time, just send them out to us again,

[Speaker 1] (31:52 - 31:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (31:53 - 31:55)
because if we can vote, we can vote in a clean set.

[Speaker 2] (31:55 - 31:59)
Just fix your calculations on this plan and we'll be okay.

[Speaker 1] (32:01 - 32:01)
You

[Speaker 2] (32:01 - 32:01)
Don't

[Speaker 1] (32:01 - 32:01)
know

[Speaker 2] (32:01 - 32:03)
change anything else on the plan.

[Speaker 4] (32:04 - 32:08)
I would also be happy to and I would invite you if you wanted to,

[Speaker 4] (32:08 - 32:12)
if the architect wants to talk to us for just clarification on

[Speaker 5] (32:12 - 32:12)
Yep,

[Speaker 4] (32:12 - 32:12)
those.

[Speaker 5] (32:12 - 32:13)
yep.

[Speaker 4] (32:13 - 32:17)
There's also windows that show in plan that don't show in elevation.

[Speaker 4] (32:17 - 32:25)
There's a lot of stuff in here that really needs some attention because these are construction documents.

[Speaker 4] (32:26 - 32:29)
So it's very hard when things get built.

[Speaker 4] (32:30 - 32:46)
Um, if you say, oh well, it's there on page this, I kno I know it didn't show up over here, but it's just not typically um it's it's really not typically what should be approved is when there's when there's, you know, consistent inconsistency.

[Speaker 2] (32:46 - 32:51)
Chair what you uh chair would you make those notes then and and um

[Speaker 4] (32:51 - 32:53)
I made I made them last time.

[Speaker 2] (32:54 - 32:55)
Oh, that's

[Speaker 4] (32:55 - 32:55)
That's

[Speaker 2] (32:55 - 32:55)
right. I have to why use

[Speaker 4] (32:55 - 32:55)
I'd be

[Speaker 2] (32:55 - 32:56)
that

[Speaker 4] (32:56 - 32:56)
happy

[Speaker 2] (32:56 - 32:56)
phrase.

[Speaker 4] (32:56 - 33:01)
to talk through them with the architect. But we sat here last time and marked up drawings.

[Speaker 2] (33:01 - 33:02)
I remember.

[Speaker 4] (33:02 - 33:02)
So, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (33:02 - 33:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (33:03 - 33:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (33:04 - 33:08)
Okay. Uh with that, is there a motion to continue? So move.

[Speaker 2] (33:08 - 33:12)
Yeah, motions to continue to our June eighth meeting.

[Speaker 1] (33:12 - 33:13)
Alright, is there a second?

[Speaker 4] (33:13 - 33:13)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (33:13 - 33:16)
Alright, uh all those in favour, we will

[Speaker 2] (33:16 - 33:17)
Angela

[Speaker 1] (33:17 - 33:17)
call.

[Speaker 2] (33:17 - 33:18)
Ippolito.

[Speaker 1] (33:18 - 33:20)
Chair Germa? Jo Sheridan, aye.

[Speaker 6] (33:20 - 33:22)
And I abstain, Ariane Perkins.

[Speaker 1] (33:22 - 33:23)
Okay, great.

[Speaker 1] (33:27 - 33:27)
Alright.

[Speaker 1] (33:28 - 33:28)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (33:29 - 33:29)
Alright, thank you.

[Speaker 1] (33:30 - 33:37)
Um okay. Uh the next item that we have uh we'll open up the hearing for petition 26

[Speaker 7] (33:37 - 33:44)
Do you do want to go back to um voting for to elect new officer positions?

[Speaker 1] (33:44 - 33:45)
I dunno, what do you think we should

[Speaker 1] (33:46 - 33:47)
Do I feel like with

[Speaker 7] (33:47 - 33:53)
Do you want to be acting chair for this meeting and we can save it till the next meeting?

[Speaker 1] (33:53 - 33:53)
Sure, maybe we

[Speaker 7] (33:53 - 33:53)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (33:53 - 33:54)
should do that.

[Speaker 1] (33:54 - 33:54)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (33:54 - 33:56)
We can put it on the next agenda.

[Speaker 1] (33:56 - 33:56)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (33:56 - 34:00)
And you'll remain acting chair as vice chair.

[Speaker 1] (34:00 - 34:00)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (34:03 - 34:10)
Yeah, I mean I was thinking that maybe we could go to the end because at least we could wait. I mean, it doesn't seem like Bill's gonna be here, but we can at least wait, and at least we have

[Speaker 7] (34:10 - 34:11)
Okay or

[Speaker 1] (34:11 - 34:11)
people here.

[Speaker 7] (34:11 - 34:13)
yeah, we can move it to the end of the agenda.

[Speaker 1] (34:13 - 34:17)
These other ones without there being an issue. Um

[Speaker 4] (34:17 - 34:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (34:17 - 34:18)
okay.

[Speaker 1] (34:19 - 34:37)
I will now open up the hearing for petition 2607 by Cheryl Barenbaum requesting a site plan special permit to construct an 828 square foot ADU addition and deck to the existing single family residence in the flood plain overlay district and the A1 zoning district at 3 Robin Lane.

[Speaker 1] (34:38 - 34:40)
So I'll take

[Speaker 4] (34:40 - 34:40)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (34:40 - 34:40)
it.

[Speaker 1] (34:40 - 34:41)
Thanks for coming.

[Speaker 1] (34:41 - 34:42)
I'll turn it over to you.

[Speaker 4] (34:42 - 34:44)
Oh, can you hear me?

[Speaker 1] (34:44 - 34:44)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (34:44 - 34:45)
Okay,

[Speaker 1] (34:45 - 34:45)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (34:45 - 34:45)
perfect.

[Speaker 4] (34:45 - 34:46)
Thank you.

[Speaker 8] (34:46 - 34:50)
Acting Chair, members of the Board, I'm attorney Matthew Wolverton.

[Speaker 8] (34:50 - 34:52)
I'm here with the owner of the property,

[Speaker 8] (34:52 - 34:56)
Cheryl Barambam, and I believe we have the architect on the team's call as well.

[Speaker 8] (34:57 - 35:02)
So 3 Robin Lane is a single family home. It's located in the A-1 zoning district.

[Speaker 8] (35:02 - 35:10)
The lot is a pre-existing non-conforming lot that contains 10,289 square feet of land with 80 feet of frontage.

[Speaker 8] (35:11 - 35:21)
The existing structure on the lot is dimensionally conforming and there's an existing shed on the lot that is located within the rear yard setback and that shed is to be removed as part of this proposal.

[Speaker 8] (35:22 - 35:30)
So the owner proposes a dimensionally conforming addition to the home with a separate attached one bedroom accessory dwelling unit as shown on the plans.

[Speaker 8] (35:31 - 35:37)
The proposed addition will be dimensionally conforming in all respects including height setbacks and open space requirements.

[Speaker 8] (35:38 - 35:42)
The ADU will consist of 828 square feet of additional living space.

[Speaker 8] (35:43 - 35:44)
Not that it's relevant,

[Speaker 8] (35:44 - 35:54)
but the purpose behind this ADU for this particular homeowner is that her husband has suffered from a stroke and is currently residing in an assisted care facility.

[Speaker 8] (35:55 - 35:59)
So the idea is that this would provide additional living space for her to bring her husband home.

[Speaker 8] (35:59 - 36:03)
And that's why if you note on the plans there's a proposed lift.

[Speaker 8] (36:04 - 36:07)
And some additional space included with the bathroom,

[Speaker 8] (36:08 - 36:08)
the kitchen,

[Speaker 8] (36:08 - 36:08)
et cetera,

[Speaker 8] (36:09 - 36:15)
to make it as accessible to the extent that it can be for him given the current situation.

[Speaker 8] (36:16 - 36:18)
And then with that, if the board has any questions,

[Speaker 8] (36:18 - 36:20)
I'd be happy to answer those.

[Speaker 1] (36:21 - 36:22)
Great. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (36:24 - 36:26)
I'll open it up to the board.

[Speaker 2] (36:34 - 36:48)
understand where the I know you've got it on you know it's split levels and so forth so I'm just trying to make sure I'm reading this correctly and understanding where the entrance of the ADU is

[Speaker 8] (36:49 - 36:50)
Okay,

[Speaker 8] (36:50 - 36:59)
so if you're facing the front of the home, there would be an entrance to the left-hand side that includes a concrete ramp coming up from the driveway.

[Speaker 8] (36:59 - 37:02)
So there'd be a parking space there for the ADU component.

[Speaker 2] (37:04 - 37:04)
we

[Speaker 8] (37:04 - 37:04)
And

[Speaker 2] (37:04 - 37:04)
all to

[Speaker 8] (37:04 - 37:04)
then,

[Speaker 2] (37:04 - 37:05)
be talking

[Speaker 8] (37:05 - 37:05)
yep,

[Speaker 2] (37:05 - 37:06)
all right we're good okay

[Speaker 8] (37:06 - 37:07)
yeah,

[Speaker 8] (37:07 - 37:07)
it's sort

[Speaker 2] (37:07 - 37:07)
go ahead

[Speaker 8] (37:07 - 37:07)
of, it's

[Speaker 2] (37:07 - 37:08)
okay

[Speaker 8] (37:08 - 37:11)
on the left-hand side, but toward the back of the existing structure.

[Speaker 8] (37:11 - 37:16)
I think it's most visible on the site plan there where you can see that that would be the entrance.

[Speaker 2] (37:18 - 37:26)
so the entrance of the property line that sort of abuts the park is that what we're talking about that side of the house

[Speaker 8] (37:27 - 37:31)
No, it would be the property line that abuts 5 Robin Lane.

[Speaker 8] (37:31 - 37:39)
So if you're standing on Robin Lane facing it, it would be a separate entrance to the left-hand side.

[Speaker 2] (37:40 - 37:40)
Okay,

[Speaker 2] (37:40 - 37:41)
I see it now.

[Speaker 2] (37:41 - 37:42)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (37:43 - 37:45)
Yeah, I was looking at the wrong drawing.

[Speaker 2] (37:47 - 37:52)
Okay, and so the lift, you've got the lift going up from...

[Speaker 2] (37:55 - 37:55)
From there,

[Speaker 2] (37:56 - 37:57)
I'm

[Speaker 2] (38:00 - 38:01)
not kind of seeing that.

[Speaker 2] (38:05 - 38:06)
Maybe

[Speaker 8] (38:06 - 38:06)
So on

[Speaker 2] (38:06 - 38:10)
it's just kind of, I'm not looking at it correctly.

[Speaker 2] (38:10 - 38:11)
I'm looking at A-sex.

[Speaker 8] (38:11 - 38:11)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (38:13 - 38:22)
So if I'm driving in along that, I'm sort of, I'm looking at the building sideways actually. The front of the house is on my left and

[Speaker 8] (38:22 - 38:22)
Correct.

[Speaker 2] (38:22 - 38:33)
the rear of the yard is to my right and so that first turn in there is where the driveway would be and so I'm going along there and

[Speaker 2] (38:35 - 38:36)
I just don't see any entrance.

[Speaker 8] (38:36 - 38:37)
So

[Speaker 2] (38:37 - 38:37)
I

[Speaker 8] (38:37 - 38:37)
yeah,

[Speaker 2] (38:37 - 38:38)
see the stairs going up the back.

[Speaker 6] (38:38 - 38:40)
Is it where the roof is,

[Speaker 6] (38:40 - 38:40)
is there a

[Speaker 8] (38:40 - 38:41)
it

[Speaker 6] (38:41 - 38:41)
roof

[Speaker 8] (38:41 - 38:41)
would be

[Speaker 6] (38:41 - 38:41)
below?

[Speaker 8] (38:41 - 38:43)
where it's identified on the top of A6.

[Speaker 8] (38:44 - 38:46)
If you look on the top of the sheet where it says roof below,

[Speaker 8] (38:46 - 38:47)
that

[Speaker 6] (38:47 - 38:48)
That's the entrance.

[Speaker 8] (38:48 - 38:49)
would be the entrance.

[Speaker 2] (38:49 - 38:49)
Oh, I got it.

[Speaker 2] (38:49 - 38:50)
I got it.

[Speaker 2] (38:51 - 38:52)
Okay, perfect.

[Speaker 2] (38:52 - 38:52)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (38:55 - 39:02)
I've got my little laptop in front because the camera is not working on the big one and I'm trying to like look at the screen and back.

[Speaker 2] (39:03 - 39:08)
Not saying anything too well, but I see it now. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1] (39:09 - 39:12)
What's the square footage of the houses that exists today,

[Speaker 1] (39:12 - 39:13)
do you know?

[Speaker 8] (39:13 - 39:17)
We have, I don't know if Gary,

[Speaker 8] (39:17 - 39:18)
the architect's on the

[Speaker 6] (39:18 - 39:18)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (39:18 - 39:18)
call,

[Speaker 6] (39:18 - 39:19)
yeah, you

[Speaker 8] (39:19 - 39:19)
he can answer

[Speaker 6] (39:19 - 39:20)
know,

[Speaker 8] (39:20 - 39:20)
that question.

[Speaker 6] (39:20 - 39:22)
I don't know if Gary can answer that.

[Speaker 1] (39:29 - 39:30)
Hey.

[Speaker 9] (39:30 - 39:31)
Is Gary here? Just

[Speaker 1] (39:31 - 39:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (39:31 - 39:32)
bear with me a second.

[Speaker 9] (39:32 - 39:33)
Let me look it up.

[Speaker 1] (39:33 - 39:34)
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 9] (39:34 - 39:36)
Hi, I'm Gary Cannon, architect.

[Speaker 9] (39:39 - 39:42)
By the way, the entry is shown on A5,

[Speaker 6] (39:42 - 39:42)
Yeah,

[Speaker 9] (39:42 - 39:43)
the

[Speaker 6] (39:43 - 39:43)
that's right.

[Speaker 9] (39:43 - 39:43)
floor below,

[Speaker 1] (39:43 - 39:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (39:44 - 39:44)
and then A5.

[Speaker 2] (39:44 - 39:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (39:44 - 39:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (39:44 - 39:48)
then A_ six yeah A_ six is a half level up and that's the A_V_ level.

[Speaker 4] (39:49 - 39:50)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (39:50 - 39:52)
Okay the existing house

[Speaker 1] (39:53 - 39:55)
um is thirty

[Speaker 1] (39:55 - 39:56)
Let's see.

[Speaker 1] (40:00 - 40:03)
Existing house is thirty five seventy one gross square feet.

[Speaker 3] (40:04 - 40:07)
Oh, the existing is thirty five seventy one and the A_V_U_ is eight twenty eight.

[Speaker 5] (40:08 - 40:08)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (40:08 - 40:11)
The ADU is 828 square feet,

[Speaker 1] (40:11 - 40:12)
but

[Speaker 3] (40:12 - 40:13)
Yeah, okay

[Speaker 1] (40:13 - 40:14)
the total addition,

[Speaker 1] (40:14 - 40:21)
because we have to have the stairs that goes up from grade to the ADU level, including the lift,

[Speaker 1] (40:21 - 40:23)
that's 161 square feet,

[Speaker 1] (40:23 - 40:29)
so that's how we get to a total square footage of 1127,

[Speaker 1] (40:29 - 40:31)
but the ADU is under 900.

[Speaker 1] (40:38 - 40:43)
The exterior appurtenances would be, I imagine,

[Speaker 1] (40:43 - 40:47)
not included in the gross square footage.

[Speaker 1] (40:48 - 40:49)
Is that correct?

[Speaker 6] (40:49 - 40:50)
For

[Speaker 3] (40:50 - 40:50)
The

[Speaker 6] (40:50 - 40:51)
for

[Speaker 3] (40:51 - 40:52)
square footage of the ADU.

[Speaker 6] (40:52 - 40:56)
the square for the gross square footage of the ADU. Yes, that's correct

[Speaker 7] (40:59 - 41:04)
Sorry, you said w uh the existing square footage is what you said? Just because it's I see it stamped on here.

[Speaker 6] (41:04 - 41:05)
Yeah, so he said uh

[Speaker 7] (41:05 - 41:06)
Thirty ninety eight.

[Speaker 6] (41:06 - 41:07)
thirty five seventy one.

[Speaker 7] (41:08 - 41:10)
Okay, it's showing here as thirty ninety eight.

[Speaker 8] (41:10 - 41:11)
Thirty nine

[Speaker 7] (41:11 - 41:14)
Uh it's it's just behind the not for price the pricing said thing.

[Speaker 7] (41:17 - 41:20)
I think it's thirty ninety eight. It's showing thirty ninety eight point eight.

[Speaker 3] (41:34 - 41:40)
And I know you have the fence along the side. Um is there any plan to put in anything else?

[Speaker 3] (41:43 - 41:45)
There just along the neighbors or anything?

[Speaker 7] (41:46 - 41:46)
Like oh

[Speaker 3] (41:46 - 41:51)
Like I don't know, trees or plantings or anything. I don't know how tall the fence is.

[Speaker 7] (41:51 - 41:53)
Oh there's no plans for

[Speaker 3] (41:53 - 41:54)
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 7] (41:54 - 42:01)
I mean I'm I don't have money for that or anything right now I mean just want to build the thing for him to get him inside there's no like extra stuff or anything right now

[Speaker 3] (42:01 - 42:01)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (42:01 - 42:02)
yeah there's nothing

[Speaker 9] (42:05 - 42:07)
I've been working on this for a long time, trying to get him home.

[Speaker 3] (42:07 - 42:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (42:12 - 42:16)
And that list is just to negotiate the the the split level,

[Speaker 7] (42:16 - 42:17)
right? Like it's just, Okay.

[Speaker 9] (42:18 - 42:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 10] (42:18 - 42:20)
It looks that way, well it looks that way to me,

[Speaker 10] (42:20 - 42:23)
I'm assuming that's I was assuming the same thing, sorry, I shouldn't have answered.

[Speaker 3] (42:24 - 42:25)
No, you're good.

[Speaker 1] (42:26 - 42:27)
Ms. Carrie,

[Speaker 1] (42:27 - 42:28)
yes, that's correct.

[Speaker 1] (42:28 - 42:32)
It's just servicing from the grade level halfway up to the ADU level.

[Speaker 9] (42:32 - 42:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (42:36 - 42:38)
And have you spoken to your neighbors? I assume,

[Speaker 3] (42:38 - 42:38)
yeah.

[Speaker 9] (42:38 - 42:43)
Yeah, we have good relationships. I mean, they all know Mark. Yep. They all know him and yeah, they want him to come home.

[Speaker 3] (42:43 - 42:44)
Yeah, I'm sure.

[Speaker 3] (42:44 - 42:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (42:44 - 42:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (42:44 - 42:45)
Okay.

[Speaker 10] (42:46 - 42:49)
Now, I know you're in a flood zone back there,

[Speaker 10] (42:49 - 42:52)
so I can see you've elevated,

[Speaker 10] (42:52 - 42:58)
you know, you've got this elevated up a bit and you've got the deck elevated up and the other addition is elevated.

[Speaker 10] (42:58 - 43:03)
So is there any change in drainage off your roof?

[Speaker 10] (43:04 - 43:22)
Anything like that since we now do we do have more impervious area just based upon that so I don't know whether you've had a chance to the architects had a chance to take a look at that and also where the where the utilities are going to be like is there an additional AC unit or anything like that.

[Speaker 1] (43:23 - 43:25)
I can speak to that if you want.

[Speaker 1] (43:25 - 43:26)
Gary again, the architect.

[Speaker 1] (43:27 - 43:33)
Yes, so we try to keep the amount of impervious material to a minimum.

[Speaker 1] (43:33 - 43:38)
So the driveway is asphalt for 23 feet by 12 feet.

[Speaker 1] (43:38 - 43:40)
That's because I'm used to the wheelchair so it can't be a gravel.

[Speaker 1] (43:40 - 43:49)
We did extend from there to the street a gravel driveway so it was as much pervious material as possible.

[Speaker 1] (43:50 - 43:53)
On site there was already an existing area drain.

[Speaker 1] (43:53 - 43:54)
You can see that.

[Speaker 1] (43:55 - 44:18)
sheet A5 there's already an area drain about centered underneath the AVU and there's a little piping distribution to collect water and bring it to that drain and a sump pump to pump it out so we do have downspouts in some locations and really tie into that

[Speaker 10] (44:23 - 44:29)
I got the old business necessity for, you know, additional, excuse me, lighting.

[Speaker 10] (44:29 - 44:34)
We just ask that you respect the dark skies lighting policy that the town has.

[Speaker 10] (44:34 - 44:45)
In other words, all lighting is angled downward that your neighbor won't be having any lighting pitched in their direction on the house.

[Speaker 1] (44:48 - 44:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (44:49 - 44:51)
Yeah, that's consistent with what we have.

[Speaker 10] (44:52 - 44:53)
Great, okay.

[Speaker 3] (44:53 - 44:54)
And sorry,

[Speaker 3] (44:54 - 44:54)
Gary,

[Speaker 3] (44:54 - 44:58)
did you say are there going to be new utilities or and if there

[Speaker 1] (44:58 - 44:59)
Yes,

[Speaker 3] (44:59 - 44:59)
are?

[Speaker 1] (44:59 - 45:04)
there's a new heat pump that's sidewall mounted above the floodplain level.

[Speaker 3] (45:05 - 45:05)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (45:05 - 45:09)
And if you go to sheet A6,

[Speaker 1] (45:09 - 45:18)
you'll see right above the lift is a node that says wall mounted condenser and it's a light gray box.

[Speaker 1] (45:19 - 45:21)
That's kind of showing this little thing,

[Speaker 1] (45:21 - 45:23)
but it's wall-mounted above the flip line.

[Speaker 3] (45:24 - 45:24)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (45:24 - 45:26)
Does anyone additional on-site?

[Speaker 1] (45:28 - 45:29)
I can't see what you mean.

[Speaker 7] (45:32 - 45:36)
What's the concrete slab on A5 for? Is that existing or no?

[Speaker 7] (45:36 - 45:36)
That's

[Speaker 1] (45:39 - 45:42)
Oh, that's uh we have a stairs steps going down from

[Speaker 7] (45:42 - 45:43)
Oh, for the, for the

[Speaker 1] (45:43 - 45:43)
from the

[Speaker 7] (45:43 - 45:43)
deck.

[Speaker 1] (45:43 - 45:44)
get and

[Speaker 7] (45:44 - 45:44)
Got it.

[Speaker 1] (45:44 - 45:46)
you can see that on page six.

[Speaker 10] (45:57 - 46:01)
This is, you know, being proposed as an ADU, so there are essentially,

[Speaker 10] (46:01 - 46:09)
you know, supposed to be two independent units that are, you know, it's not an extension,

[Speaker 10] (46:09 - 46:14)
it's not an addition to your house, it's an ADU, so it could be it's like a separate house in itself.

[Speaker 10] (46:15 - 46:23)
So I just would like to understand where the, you know, where the doors or the separation between your home and the ADU is.

[Speaker 1] (46:24 - 46:26)
Okay, I guess I'll continue on, Gary again.

[Speaker 1] (46:27 - 46:29)
So if you go to sheet A6,

[Speaker 1] (46:31 - 46:41)
this is the same level as the ADU. So you can see it says open to below. So by the kitchen of the ADU, you'll see a swing door.

[Speaker 1] (46:42 - 46:43)
It's number 810.

[Speaker 1] (46:45 - 46:48)
That is the entry door into the ADU.

[Speaker 1] (46:48 - 46:55)
that separates it from the stairs that goes down to the engine and separates it going into the existing house.

[Speaker 10] (46:59 - 47:03)
Are there any other access points into the existing home or is that it?

[Speaker 1] (47:03 - 47:05)
No, there's one more on sheet 85.

[Speaker 10] (47:07 - 47:08)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (47:08 - 47:11)
You'll see door D04.

[Speaker 1] (47:12 - 47:15)
That's also accessible off that stairwell.

[Speaker 1] (47:16 - 47:18)
Again, it has nothing to do with the ADU, ADU is plural,

[Speaker 1] (47:18 - 47:27)
but you can get from the entry into the house from that level as well.

[Speaker 10] (47:27 - 47:28)
Okay.

[Speaker 10] (47:29 - 47:30)
But essentially,

[Speaker 10] (47:30 - 47:33)
if there were not her husband living there, for example,

[Speaker 10] (47:33 - 47:38)
there is a way to completely seal off a unit from the rest of the house. Is that correct?

[Speaker 1] (47:39 - 47:39)
Correct.

[Speaker 10] (47:39 - 47:41)
Okay, thank you. That's what I needed to know.

[Speaker 7] (47:42 - 47:46)
And still maintain proper egress for safety reasons,

[Speaker 9] (47:46 - 47:46)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (47:46 - 47:46)
correct?

[Speaker 10] (47:46 - 47:47)
Correct.

[Speaker 10] (47:56 - 47:57)
I don't have any other questions.

[Speaker 3] (47:58 - 48:01)
Any other questions? I'm just going to open it up to public comment.

[Speaker 10] (48:02 - 48:05)
Unless you had any comments from Butters or anything like that,

[Speaker 10] (48:06 - 48:07)
I don't have any other.

[Speaker 7] (48:08 - 48:10)
And the roofline being taller,

[Speaker 7] (48:10 - 48:14)
I mean, this is me catching up to speed, but that's okay as long as it's within the code.

[Speaker 7] (48:14 - 48:16)
Is this taller than the existing building,

[Speaker 7] (48:16 - 48:17)
the peak?

[Speaker 10] (48:17 - 48:21)
It's still less than a 35 foot,

[Speaker 7] (48:21 - 48:21)
Right.

[Speaker 10] (48:21 - 48:22)
so.

[Speaker 7] (48:22 - 48:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (48:25 - 48:28)
Okay. With that I'll open up to public comment.

[Speaker 3] (48:29 - 48:31)
Are either of you here for? No.

[Speaker 3] (48:31 - 48:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (48:33 - 48:36)
Anyone online here to comment on this?

[Speaker 3] (48:36 - 48:37)
A petition?

[Speaker 3] (48:42 - 48:44)
Okay, doesn't seem that way.

[Speaker 3] (48:46 - 48:48)
Um any other comments?

[Speaker 6] (48:48 - 48:48)
No.

[Speaker 3] (48:49 - 48:56)
No? Um alright. In that case uh I'm just gonna run through the

[Speaker 3] (48:58 - 49:00)
uh special permit.

[Speaker 3] (49:08 - 49:29)
Okay, so um the requirements for approval of a site plan special permit are uh minimise the volume of cut and fill. Um if there really isn't any cut and fill, the number of removed trees, there aren't any. Um the area of wetland there's It's a relocated education.

[Speaker 11] (49:29 - 49:30)
tree, but relocated.

[Speaker 3] (49:30 - 49:33)
There's okay, sure. Um good point.

[Speaker 3] (49:33 - 49:38)
Um uh the area of wetland vegetation displaced,

[Speaker 3] (49:38 - 49:39)
the extent of stormwater

[Speaker 1] (49:49 - 50:03)
Maximize pedestrian vehicular safety both on-site and egressing from it. I don't there's really a change in the um egress, so not really applicable. Uh minimise obstruction of scenic views from publicly accessible locations.

[Speaker 1] (50:05 - 50:11)
The height is within the um, you know, requirements and I don't think any

[Speaker 1] (50:12 - 50:25)
neighbours have come up with any issues there. So I don't think we have a problem there. Minimise visual intrusion by controlling the visibility of parking storage or other outdoor service areas viewed from public ways or premises residentially used or zoned.

[Speaker 1] (50:26 - 50:30)
Um again, not really an issue there, and not much is changing on that front.

[Speaker 1] (50:31 - 50:37)
Uh minimize glare from headlights and lighting intrusion. I think the only thing we spoke about there was uh

[Speaker 1] (50:38 - 50:44)
dark sky compliance. Um otherwise uh there's not much in the way of uh lighting intrusion.

[Speaker 1] (50:45 - 50:57)
Minimize unreasonable departure from the character materials and scale of the buildings in the vicinity as viewed from public ways and places. Um there is much of a variance and you did a nice job making it consistent with what's there.

[Speaker 1] (50:58 - 51:03)
Minimize contamination of groundwater from on-site wastewater disposal systems.

[Speaker 1] (51:03 - 51:05)
I don't think that's applicable.

[Speaker 1] (51:06 - 51:09)
Ensure compliance with the provisions of the zoning bylaw,

[Speaker 1] (51:09 - 51:11)
including parking and landscaping.

[Speaker 1] (51:11 - 51:13)
You determine that it is compliant.

[Speaker 1] (51:14 - 51:29)
Minimize adverse traffic impact of the proposed project. There really is no traffic impact. And minimize the hazard of coastal flooding. Uh and I think we've spoken about that in terms of the measures you've taken to reduce uh any reduction in pervious area.

[Speaker 1] (51:30 - 51:32)
So with that, does

[Speaker 1] (51:33 - 51:34)
Is there a motion?

[Speaker 2] (51:35 - 51:37)
Yeah, I mean I have a comment.

[Speaker 1] (51:37 - 51:38)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (51:38 - 51:41)
It's sure. sort of like I'd be happy to make a motion, but I have a question.

[Speaker 2] (51:42 - 51:46)
So I am one of the, I am a non-architect,

[Speaker 2] (51:46 - 51:50)
so I have no business asking you this,

[Speaker 2] (51:51 - 51:52)
but I'm going to ask anyway.

[Speaker 2] (51:53 - 51:56)
When I look at this house, and you know, it's a foot level,

[Speaker 2] (51:56 - 51:58)
I live right nearby,

[Speaker 2] (51:58 - 52:01)
we have a ton of split levels in our neighborhood,

[Speaker 2] (52:01 - 52:06)
so you know, the roof line that was originally there on top of your garage.

[Speaker 2] (52:07 - 52:35)
And you have the new ADU roofline behind it which kind of pops up in the back is they're very different and I'm wondering was there any reason that you wouldn't have wanted to sort of lower the roof a bit on that part of the ADU and you know have an angle outward so that it matched the existing roofline was a little more you know compatible with the existing roofline.

[Speaker 2] (52:36 - 52:42)
Now again, please, you know, forgive the stupid question because I'm not a design expert.

[Speaker 2] (52:42 - 52:43)
I just thought I'd ask.

[Speaker 3] (52:44 - 52:44)
Sure, sure.

[Speaker 3] (52:45 - 53:01)
A lot of it was driven by getting as much height in the cathedral ceilings open spaces because it's small and square footage so you want to increase the height of the volume of the interior as much as possible.

[Speaker 3] (53:02 - 53:04)
So we work with that.

[Speaker 3] (53:04 - 53:28)
Also the mechanical fan cooling unit is located above the kitchen in order to fit it in with clearance for headroom for that fan cooling unit we had to pop up a little bit above the other peak and there's most likely going to be a cable bent as well to allow cross ventilation into that attic area if we choose to do that.

[Speaker 2] (53:28 - 53:29)
So what about me?

[Speaker 2] (53:30 - 53:31)
Can I ask one more stupid question?

[Speaker 2] (53:31 - 53:33)
So if I'm looking at AA,

[Speaker 2] (53:33 - 53:36)
for example, and I'm looking at the rear view of this,

[Speaker 2] (53:37 - 53:37)
right,

[Speaker 2] (53:37 - 53:47)
it seems like you can elevate the two, take the two edges of the roof and like lift it up almost to match the existing roof.

[Speaker 2] (53:47 - 53:48)
Do you know what I'm saying?

[Speaker 3] (53:48 - 53:49)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (53:49 - 53:50)
Does that make any sense?

[Speaker 3] (53:50 - 53:57)
The roof line is, believe it or not, was very complicated because if you look on machine AA.

[Speaker 3] (53:58 - 54:02)
You see the extension that goes out over the deck area.

[Speaker 2] (54:02 - 54:02)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (54:02 - 54:04)
It actually has to align,

[Speaker 3] (54:04 - 54:07)
well it should align with the fascia of the existing.

[Speaker 3] (54:07 - 54:10)
So that dictated a lot of the slopes.

[Speaker 3] (54:11 - 54:17)
So it was, and then on the other side it has to loop around to the front of the building and align there.

[Speaker 3] (54:17 - 54:21)
So it was a little complicated for this to work.

[Speaker 2] (54:21 - 54:23)
thank you for indulging my question.

[Speaker 2] (54:23 - 54:25)
I'm sure it's very nice of you. Thanks

[Speaker 3] (54:26 - 54:27)
No problem, thank you.

[Speaker 2] (54:31 - 54:34)
Um, Karen, didn't hear anything from you.

[Speaker 1] (54:35 - 54:36)
Savor it.

[Speaker 2] (54:38 - 54:41)
I was going to, but I don't know.

[Speaker 1] (54:41 - 54:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (54:42 - 54:42)
No,

[Speaker 1] (54:43 - 54:45)
no, I guess my...

[Speaker 4] (54:45 - 54:59)
I just want to say I'm really glad to see ADUs working in situations like this because it really is about people staying in their community and their community being micro so that they have their neighbors and they have that.

[Speaker 4] (54:59 - 55:04)
So I'm really glad to see a policy like this working for your family,

[Speaker 4] (55:04 - 55:06)
which is I think that's the

[Speaker 5] (55:06 - 55:11)
I mean, he hasn't been able to come into the house since he had the stroke because of all this. He has never been back until today.

[Speaker 4] (55:11 - 55:11)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (55:12 - 55:12)
That was

[Speaker 4] (55:12 - 55:12)
Wow.

[Speaker 2] (55:12 - 55:12)
great.

[Speaker 4] (55:12 - 55:14)
So that's that's that's wonderful.

[Speaker 4] (55:14 - 55:14)
So that's

[Speaker 5] (55:14 - 55:15)
He's

[Speaker 4] (55:15 - 55:15)
that's

[Speaker 5] (55:15 - 55:15)
ringing up.

[Speaker 4] (55:15 - 55:17)
that's what we'd like to see.

[Speaker 4] (55:17 - 55:19)
I'm sorry that this is the reason you're doing it.

[Speaker 4] (55:19 - 55:21)
But what a great way forward.

[Speaker 4] (55:21 - 55:24)
So, you know, I'm very pleased with that.

[Speaker 4] (55:24 - 55:30)
I had similar questions on the roof line, but your explanations sort of answered those for me.

[Speaker 4] (55:31 - 55:38)
But I feel that the the way that this is tucked all the way at the back of the house, the altering roof line is not.

[Speaker 4] (55:38 - 55:39)
not going to be present in the front.

[Speaker 4] (55:39 - 55:43)
It sort of, it is in the illustrations,

[Speaker 4] (55:43 - 55:47)
but generally we're not in a drone flying around looking at it.

[Speaker 5] (55:47 - 55:47)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (55:48 - 55:52)
So I think it will be much more minimized from there.

[Speaker 4] (55:53 - 55:54)
But no,

[Speaker 4] (55:54 - 56:01)
and I really appreciate all the work going into dealing with the floodplain and I've noticed how many drains you have in your yard already.

[Speaker 4] (56:02 - 56:04)
So, you know, that.

[Speaker 4] (56:04 - 56:21)
that piece of it of course that's great because you know this will be where you can all take refuge if we get a big storm um you know invite your neighbors um but no i'm i'm i'm happy to see that this is working um and addressing addressing your needs

[Speaker 5] (56:21 - 56:22)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (56:22 - 56:23)
Yeah, me too.

[Speaker 2] (56:23 - 56:26)
And I know my echo is gone.

[Speaker 2] (56:27 - 56:29)
Yeah, and yeah, we wish you the best obviously.

[Speaker 5] (56:29 - 56:31)
Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (56:32 - 56:34)
So if I don't know,

[Speaker 2] (56:34 - 56:39)
I'd be happy to make a motion if that's where we are at.

[Speaker 1] (56:39 - 56:40)
I think so.

[Speaker 2] (56:41 - 56:50)
Okay, I'll make a motion that the planning board approve the site plan for five Robin Lane for a house addition that is specifically

[Speaker 5] (56:50 - 56:50)
Three Robin.

[Speaker 1] (56:50 - 56:50)
Three

[Speaker 5] (56:50 - 56:50)
Three

[Speaker 1] (56:50 - 56:51)
Robin.

[Speaker 5] (56:51 - 56:51)
Robin.

[Speaker 2] (56:51 - 56:51)
Montreal

[Speaker 5] (56:51 - 56:51)
Three

[Speaker 2] (56:51 - 56:51)
City.

[Speaker 1] (56:51 - 56:51)
Three Robin.

[Speaker 5] (56:51 - 56:52)
Robin.

[Speaker 1] (56:52 - 56:52)
Three Robin.

[Speaker 2] (56:53 - 56:54)
Oh, sorry,

[Speaker 2] (56:54 - 56:56)
prima, prima, prima.

[Speaker 2] (56:57 - 57:01)
All right, side claim special permit for an accessory dwelling unit.

[Speaker 1] (57:02 - 57:03)
Is there a second?

[Speaker 4] (57:04 - 57:04)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (57:04 - 57:05)
All right, all those in favor?

[Speaker 2] (57:06 - 57:08)
Angela Eppolino, yes.

[Speaker 4] (57:09 - 57:10)
Chair Germa, yes.

[Speaker 1] (57:10 - 57:11)
Joe Sheridan, yes.

[Speaker 5] (57:11 - 57:13)
Ariane Purdy, yes.

[Speaker 1] (57:13 - 57:14)
All right, so moved.

[Speaker 4] (57:14 - 57:14)
Thank

[Speaker 1] (57:14 - 57:14)
Thank

[Speaker 5] (57:14 - 57:14)
you.

[Speaker 4] (57:14 - 57:15)
you.

[Speaker 5] (57:15 - 57:16)
Thank you very much.

[Speaker 3] (57:16 - 57:16)
Thank you very much.

[Speaker 5] (57:16 - 57:17)
Have Good luck.

[Speaker 1] (57:17 - 57:17)
luck.

[Speaker 5] (57:17 - 57:18)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (57:18 - 57:19)
Thank you all.

[Speaker 1] (57:32 - 57:59)
Before we move on to the next one, uh Krista and I spoke about this a little bit, but there might be um I thi I think the prevent was still required in this instance, but there's a little bit of a disconnect between the Massachusetts general statutes and what we have, and I think we'll need at some point to have a zoning by a lot to make sure that everything uh aligns in terms of um are we on the ADU still?

[Speaker 1] (57:59 - 58:03)
Well I I'm just saying I'm just saying separately like that's that's closed and

[Speaker 4] (58:03 - 58:04)
No, but I mean are you talking about

[Speaker 1] (58:04 - 58:05)
We're talking

[Speaker 4] (58:05 - 58:05)
meeting

[Speaker 1] (58:05 - 58:05)
about ADUs,

[Speaker 4] (58:05 - 58:05)
policies?

[Speaker 1] (58:05 - 58:06)
yeah, right,

[Speaker 4] (58:06 - 58:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (58:06 - 58:12)
yeah, yeah. Um so uh I just you know, we should just have that on our radar and

[Speaker 6] (58:12 - 58:13)
Yeah, and that's probably something

[Speaker 1] (58:13 - 58:17)
not someth that we're gonna address at this town meeting. But um it

[Speaker 6] (58:17 - 58:25)
That's something that um I can talk with the building commissioner and we can draft up some language uh potentially to make it

[Speaker 6] (58:26 - 58:31)
Make more sense moving forward since it's something that we've seen quite a bit this year

[Speaker 1] (58:31 - 58:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (58:31 - 58:33)
as we get more interest in ADUs.

[Speaker 4] (58:33 - 58:35)
Yeah, yeah. So is my quick question, just for clarification.

[Speaker 1] (58:35 - 58:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (58:36 - 58:39)
So basically, because what was passed by town meeting,

[Speaker 4] (58:39 - 58:45)
the state permits more and therefore overrides it,

[Speaker 4] (58:45 - 58:46)
but we should clean it up.

[Speaker 1] (58:46 - 58:48)
Maybe, because it's not totally clear like

[Speaker 1] (58:50 - 58:53)
You know, what if you're doing an ADU and some other stuff like they were doing

[Speaker 4] (58:53 - 58:54)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (58:54 - 59:03)
here, right? So yeah, we just need to clean it up so that it's clear like what are the thresholds for when an ADU is one hundred percent by right and when is it not.

[Speaker 4] (59:03 - 59:08)
And j just remind me, in the ADU that we pa the ADU policy we passed,

[Speaker 1] (59:08 - 59:08)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (59:08 - 59:16)
we had an ADU policy which was the attached ADU which this falls under, but my understanding was the

[Speaker 4] (59:18 - 59:20)
The one that we added was detached,

[Speaker 4] (59:21 - 59:21)
day view, correct?

[Speaker 1] (59:22 - 59:23)
Yeah, you can have either.

[Speaker 4] (59:23 - 59:24)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (59:24 - 59:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (59:24 - 59:25)
right, okay.

[Speaker 1] (59:25 - 59:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (59:25 - 59:25)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (59:25 - 59:31)
okay. Um I just wanted to make a note so that this was timely. Uh okay.

[Speaker 1] (59:32 - 59:34)
Alright, uh now we

[Speaker 1] (59:34 - 59:52)
Now we will open up the hearing for petition 2608 by Jeff Tucker requesting a site plan special permit to raise the roof ridge of the existing single family residence to expand the attic space resulting in three stories and 902 square feet of living space in the A1 zoning district at 11 Eula Street.

[Speaker 1] (59:54 - 59:54)
Mr.

[Speaker 1] (59:54 - 59:54)
Tucker?

[Speaker 2] (59:55 - 59:56)
Hello everyone, thank you.

[Speaker 2] (59:56 - 59:57)
By the way, as an aside,

[Speaker 2] (59:58 - 1:00:00)
Marblehead just went through the effort that you just described.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:00 - 1:00:04)
So we had an inconsistent ADU bylaw and they just cleaned it up at town meeting.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:04 - 1:00:04)
So just

[Speaker 1] (1:00:04 - 1:00:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:04 - 1:00:07)
a little bit of friendly neighborly advice.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:08 - 1:00:09)
So I'm here tonight.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:09 - 1:00:13)
I believe Julie Callum has just landed from overseas.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:13 - 1:00:14)
So she's joining us tonight.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:15 - 1:00:28)
Our request here is to put a or essentially to cut the existing roof off of the of an existing home and extend that ridge upward and to create additional square footage in the attic.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:28 - 1:00:33)
The existing home is conforming and it is on a non-conforming lot.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:33 - 1:00:36)
All of the work would be happening on the existing footprint.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:37 - 1:00:40)
The addition would exceed the 500 square feet,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:41 - 1:00:42)
which is why we're here for special permit.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:42 - 1:00:49)
We're also going to be exceeding the requirement for the 50% rule for a third story,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:49 - 1:00:50)
and we're going to the zoning board for that.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:50 - 1:00:52)
We've spoken with the building commissioner about that.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:53 - 1:00:56)
So we are on ZBA later this month for that effort.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:57 - 1:00:58)
So this work here,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:59 - 1:01:00)
actually,

[Speaker 2] (1:01:00 - 1:01:01)
if you can go to the cover page,

[Speaker 2] (1:01:01 - 1:01:02)
please.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:04 - 1:01:07)
One of the things as an architect that I like about the existing building,

[Speaker 2] (1:01:07 - 1:01:13)
you'll see it in the photograph on the bottom, is it has existing rafter tails on that lower pitched roof.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:13 - 1:01:21)
Our plan is to actually preserve that and then install a higher pitched roof to be able to accommodate the dormers that are facing Eulo Street.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:21 - 1:01:29)
The existing house has a very flat roofed shed dormer. I wouldn't even call it a shed, more like a box on the back of the house.

[Speaker 2] (1:01:29 - 1:01:32)
That would get extended and actually have a

[Speaker 2] (1:01:32 - 1:02:00)
a a a decent pitch uh to it along the rear and then again there's uh the hip dormers and the shed roof on the front. Uh this would create two bedrooms and some living space up on that uh that third floor. Um Julie has two kids uh that are grown now and so this is to be able to accommodate a that a kid that wanted to come home and stay for a a a little bit longer uh by giving them an independent space. But this is not an A_D_U_ This is purely additional living space within the attic of the home.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:01 - 1:02:27)
Um, we've provided uh the site plan where you can see that the uh entire addition uh stays within the uh the setbacks uh um and does not extend out over the uh the um existing footprint either. Uh really the only relevant piece to the in terms of floor plans, we provided you with basement first and second floor plans. Uh there's no real changes there, it's it's primarily the the attic uh level that we'd be changing.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:28 - 1:02:29)
Can I answer any questions?

[Speaker 3] (1:02:31 - 1:02:33)
Well, you answered one question for me,

[Speaker 3] (1:02:33 - 1:02:39)
which is how you can go to the zoning board of appeals for that size of the third story,

[Speaker 3] (1:02:39 - 1:02:54)
which is interesting because you have a beautiful home and it almost begs to want that extra space on top. I see, you know, it's certainly...

[Speaker 3] (1:02:55 - 1:03:14)
it doesn't look excessive or anything like that but that's very interesting so I wasn't aware of I didn't see that anywhere in the zoning bylaw but that's a whole other issue I was going to ask you oh about did you contact the historical commission

[Speaker 2] (1:03:15 - 1:03:20)
We have not. We do plan to contact them due to the roof removal.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:21 - 1:03:21)
Yeah, it

[Speaker 4] (1:03:21 - 1:03:24)
So the historical commission was actually notified,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:24 - 1:03:27)
this was the first permit that was submitted in the online portal,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:27 - 1:03:38)
so they were actually notified as a reviewer, and they had the comment that the demolition permit would trigger historical review for this application.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:40 - 1:03:41)
would.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:41 - 1:03:44)
So this house is on our historic register?

[Speaker 4] (1:03:46 - 1:03:48)
Because of the way that the process goes,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:48 - 1:03:49)
they were just,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:49 - 1:03:58)
the comment was to let the applicant know that this will be reviewed when they apply for the demolition permit because that's the way the process is.

[Speaker 3] (1:03:59 - 1:04:02)
I just, I was just curious, it was in the inventory.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:03 - 1:04:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:04 - 1:04:08)
I don't believe it's actually in the inventory. I think it just is because of the age of the house,

[Speaker 2] (1:04:08 - 1:04:09)
I believe.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:09 - 1:04:11)
Yes, yeah, over 75 years.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:13 - 1:04:14)
They they have

[Speaker 3] (1:04:14 - 1:04:14)
Okay,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:14 - 1:04:15)
the okay. review. They'll do their review.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:15 - 1:04:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:18 - 1:04:27)
And actually to kind of further on the question you had about the 50%, we actually did do a study of staying below that. We're going to exceed the 50% by 200 square feet.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:28 - 1:04:30)
The second floor is 1,400 square feet,

[Speaker 2] (1:04:30 - 1:04:34)
and our attic square footage will be around 900 square feet.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:35 - 1:04:39)
We did do a study to try and stay within it, but it did not fit the need for the owner.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:39 - 1:04:44)
So we did need, you know, again, we did do a study, but we needed to exceed that.

[Speaker 3] (1:04:49 - 1:04:55)
The Building Commissioner told you that you could go to zoning for that, but that's what I wasn't aware of, not that, you know.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:55 - 1:04:56)
He did.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:56 - 1:04:58)
Yeah, that was an early conversation with him.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:58 - 1:04:59)
So yes.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:59 - 1:05:10)
Yes, so this is on the agenda for the May 26th zoning board meeting and they're requesting relief to go from 2.5 stories to three stories,

[Speaker 4] (1:05:10 - 1:05:13)
even though it doesn't exceed the maximum height.

[Speaker 3] (1:05:20 - 1:05:22)
I don't have any questions,

[Speaker 3] (1:05:22 - 1:05:23)
to be honest.

[Speaker 3] (1:05:23 - 1:05:23)
I mean, you know,

[Speaker 3] (1:05:23 - 1:05:24)
I mean,

[Speaker 3] (1:05:24 - 1:05:26)
it's clearly within the footprint of the existing building.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:29 - 1:05:32)
How does this work if he's going to ZBA after,

[Speaker 5] (1:05:32 - 1:05:35)
like if we were to approve this and ZBA were to deny it,

[Speaker 5] (1:05:36 - 1:05:36)
then what happens?

[Speaker 5] (1:05:38 - 1:05:38)
Do we know,

[Speaker 5] (1:05:38 - 1:05:39)
Krista?

[Speaker 4] (1:05:42 - 1:05:46)
So they could either revise the plans and come back,

[Speaker 5] (1:05:46 - 1:05:46)
Come back

[Speaker 4] (1:05:46 - 1:05:46)
but

[Speaker 5] (1:05:46 - 1:05:46)
to us.

[Speaker 4] (1:05:46 - 1:05:49)
it wouldn't be able to move forward without the ZBA approval.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:49 - 1:05:51)
They'd have to come back to us too like

[Speaker 4] (1:05:51 - 1:05:55)
They would have to revise the plans and come back here with new plans.

[Speaker 3] (1:05:57 - 1:06:00)
Already that our plans after we approve,

[Speaker 3] (1:06:01 - 1:06:04)
let's say we approve the site plan special permit with condition,

[Speaker 3] (1:06:04 - 1:06:06)
you know, condition that it has to go to ZBA.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:06 - 1:06:24)
That goes to the clerk's office and that remains at the clerk's office. Nothing is getting processed or certified until they get the decision from ZBA. If those decisions don't match, then it has to, you know, it has to go back to both boards. If the decisions do match,

[Speaker 3] (1:06:24 - 1:06:26)
then it gets filed at that.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:26 - 1:06:32)
at that time together so there's one filing with the registry right

[Speaker 5] (1:06:32 - 1:06:33)
Yeah, right down the street from this,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:34 - 1:06:36)
there was a very similar project done on Bradley,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:36 - 1:06:38)
almost identical.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:38 - 1:06:40)
So I just wondered what the outcome,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:41 - 1:06:49)
it's within the last five years, I think, but it's at the intersection of Bradley and whatever that dog like you logo is into.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:51 - 1:06:53)
It's right at the bike path,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:53 - 1:06:55)
the house that's right at the bike path.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:56 - 1:06:57)
That's right.

[Speaker 3] (1:06:57 - 1:06:57)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:57 - 1:07:00)
They put the two dormers and then I think there was even a cricket in the middle too.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:01 - 1:07:02)
They raised the roof.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:04 - 1:07:10)
My only question is it looks like the generator and the AC units are moving,

[Speaker 1] (1:07:10 - 1:07:10)
right?

[Speaker 2] (1:07:10 - 1:07:11)
They are.

[Speaker 2] (1:07:11 - 1:07:11)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:11 - 1:07:14)
Is anything going to be done to screen those with the neighbor?

[Speaker 2] (1:07:15 - 1:07:15)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:07:15 - 1:07:17)
If you'll notice that they're actually in a planting bed,

[Speaker 2] (1:07:17 - 1:07:23)
the plan is to change those plantings so we have some evergreen plantings screening those from the street and from the neighbor.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:24 - 1:07:24)
Great.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:28 - 1:07:30)
Do you have any comments from your neighbors? Any?

[Speaker 2] (1:07:31 - 1:07:33)
Julia's reached out to her neighbors, but she has been away,

[Speaker 2] (1:07:33 - 1:07:38)
so she's had brief conversations with them, but we certainly plan to have a more engaged conversation prior to ZBA.

[Speaker 3] (1:07:39 - 1:07:40)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:07:42 - 1:07:43)
Krista, we didn't receive anything,

[Speaker 1] (1:07:43 - 1:07:44)
right?

[Speaker 4] (1:07:45 - 1:07:47)
So I did receive...

[Speaker 4] (1:07:51 - 1:07:52)
Sorry, hold on one second.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:55 - 1:08:06)
A question about this 20 minutes before the meeting and asking where to look at the plans from some neighbors that said they would not be able to be here today.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:06 - 1:08:09)
They'll also be notified of the ZBA meeting.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:09 - 1:08:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:10 - 1:08:21)
I did receive some phone calls just asking about for me to explain the height difference in the plans that I walked through with them once they learned that the height.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:22 - 1:08:24)
of the house isn't actually going up that much.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:24 - 1:08:25)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:25 - 1:08:26)
It,

[Speaker 4] (1:08:26 - 1:08:32)
you know, it's not going up a whole story, it's only going up a few inches. Um they didn't seem to have any comments.

[Speaker 1] (1:08:32 - 1:08:33)
Okay, thanks.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:38 - 1:08:40)
Jeff, I have a quick drawing question.

[Speaker 2] (1:08:40 - 1:08:40)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:40 - 1:08:43)
And it's just 'cause my I'm having a hard time

[Speaker 2] (1:08:43 - 1:08:44)
'Cause you teach architecture.

[Speaker 6] (1:08:44 - 1:08:47)
It's my I'm a nightmare. Um

[Speaker 6] (1:08:48 - 1:08:49)
The roof plan,

[Speaker 6] (1:08:49 - 1:09:06)
Yes. which is, the roof plan is, is this diagrammatic because it doesn't match the elevations, how the existing lower sloped roof is meeting the higher roof.

[Speaker 6] (1:09:08 - 1:09:19)
In the elevations it's it's extending there's an eave under the new roof and it's extending out beyond the diagonal line.

[Speaker 6] (1:09:19 - 1:09:29)
So if you look at page six you'll see that the the original roof is coming right to the corner and on the actual

[Speaker 2] (1:09:34 - 1:09:34)
Yes,

[Speaker 1] (1:09:34 - 1:09:35)
a bit

[Speaker 2] (1:09:35 - 1:09:35)
they say that.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:35 - 1:09:35)
of Yeah, overhang.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:35 - 1:09:39)
essentially we pushed out the rake further than that, you're correct. And it's also,

[Speaker 2] (1:09:40 - 1:09:41)
this,

[Speaker 2] (1:09:41 - 1:09:49)
on page six it looks like we have a bastard hip there and we don't. In other words, a hip that the angles are not the same.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:49 - 1:09:57)
um we'll certainly fix that. It should be forty five coming into there and that would show that the the gable actually sticks out past.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:57 - 1:09:57)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:57 - 1:09:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:09:58 - 1:09:58)
Good.

[Speaker 2] (1:09:58 - 1:10:01)
I think that's just a uh an error in drafting it.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:01 - 1:10:01)
We've actually

[Speaker 1] (1:10:01 - 1:10:02)
It's

[Speaker 2] (1:10:02 - 1:10:02)
since

[Speaker 1] (1:10:02 - 1:10:05)
it's a really complex intersection to visualize

[Speaker 2] (1:10:05 - 1:10:05)
It is

[Speaker 1] (1:10:05 - 1:10:10)
so it's it's one of those things that I think in in this plan.

[Speaker 1] (1:10:10 - 1:10:16)
It's very straightforward And then you have no app absolutely no overhang on those those gable ends so good

[Speaker 2] (1:10:16 - 1:10:24)
We've actually since switched to a BIM software where the errors should be less but yeah, that's just it's purely a drafted roof plane

[Speaker 1] (1:10:24 - 1:10:26)
Yeah, it was mostly it was mostly a curiosity

[Speaker 2] (1:10:26 - 1:10:26)
Yeah

[Speaker 1] (1:10:27 - 1:10:55)
because I was trying to get my head around it but I think the the scale is looking great it does not I mean the the variance of the dormers I think helps minimize the scale of it and I'm very glad that you're hanging on to to that original roof line because that is referencing lots of things that were being done with roofs

[Speaker 1] (1:10:57 - 1:10:59)
on houses back in the 1910 to 1930

[Speaker 3] (1:10:59 - 1:11:00)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:00 - 1:11:02)
range. So it's a it's a nice detail in there.

[Speaker 4] (1:11:02 - 1:11:03)
Well,

[Speaker 3] (1:11:03 - 1:11:03)
I it did.

[Speaker 4] (1:11:03 - 1:11:10)
helps make it helps keep it at looking like an attic as opposed to a three-story wedding cake, you know

[Speaker 5] (1:11:12 - 1:11:12)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:12 - 1:11:15)
But that beautiful shadow, that would be really sad to lose that.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:17 - 1:11:21)
Okay. With that, I'm just going to open it up to public comment quickly.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:23 - 1:11:25)
Or longer people have things to add?

[Speaker 3] (1:11:27 - 1:11:29)
You guys aren't here for public comment on this?

[Speaker 1] (1:11:29 - 1:11:32)
Yeah, I'm just a neighbour but to see the drawings

[Speaker 3] (1:11:32 - 1:11:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:32 - 1:11:35)
and understand what's going on in the house.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:35 - 1:11:36)
Okay, sure.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:38 - 1:11:41)
Um anyone online here to comment?

[Speaker 3] (1:11:45 - 1:11:48)
Doesn't seem that way. Um okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:49 - 1:11:54)
Then I think this is probably a good time to just run through the requirements.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:56 - 1:12:04)
So, yeah, so starting with 5.481 of the bylaw.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:05 - 1:12:08)
So the project needs to minimize the volume of cut and fill,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:09 - 1:12:10)
the number of removed trees,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:11 - 1:12:13)
six inch caliper or larger,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:13 - 1:12:14)
the length of removed stone walls,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:15 - 1:12:17)
the area of wetland vegetation displaced,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:17 - 1:12:20)
the extent of storm water flow increase from the site,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:20 - 1:12:20)
soil erosion,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:21 - 1:12:25)
vertebrate and water pollution. This is all within the envelope of the house, so I don't think any of this is applicable.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:26 - 1:12:28)
Maximize pedestrian vehicular safety,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:28 - 1:12:29)
there's no...

[Speaker 3] (1:12:31 - 1:12:47)
Impact, minimise obstruction of scenic views, like we've discussed. You know, if anyone has anything to say, feel free to chime in uh on the board. But um uh we're not going b above the existing height, so there really is no

[Speaker 2] (1:12:47 - 1:12:47)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:47 - 1:12:48)
uh uh

[Speaker 3] (1:12:49 - 1:12:50)
intrusion beyond what's already there can

[Speaker 1] (1:12:50 - 1:12:51)
Can I

[Speaker 3] (1:12:51 - 1:12:51)
yeah

[Speaker 1] (1:12:51 - 1:12:55)
ask a really quick question of Jeff? Um are the chimneys being extended?

[Speaker 2] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
They

[Speaker 4] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
It

[Speaker 2] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
are.

[Speaker 4] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
looks

[Speaker 2] (1:12:55 - 1:12:55)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (1:12:55 - 1:12:56)
like, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:56 - 1:12:56)
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:12:56 - 1:12:59)
Yes, we are going above the existing height. We are not exceeding the maximum height.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:00 - 1:13:00)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:13:00 - 1:13:01)
We're Okay. well below

[Speaker 3] (1:13:01 - 1:13:01)
That's

[Speaker 2] (1:13:01 - 1:13:01)
that.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:01 - 1:13:01)
a good um

[Speaker 2] (1:13:01 - 1:13:01)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:01 - 1:13:02)
point

[Speaker 1] (1:13:02 - 1:13:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:02 - 1:13:09)
there. Um okay so there is some potential obstruction but I think uh it's minimal and um it's

[Speaker 1] (1:13:09 - 1:13:11)
not really an of you but you said non-IO.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:11 - 1:13:12)
Yeah yeah yeah okay

[Speaker 6] (1:13:13 - 1:13:16)
The chimneys are, we don't include the vent pipes, so.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:17 - 1:13:18)
I know, but that was a good call.

[Speaker 6] (1:13:19 - 1:13:20)
Yeah, it was a good call.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:21 - 1:13:25)
Minimize glare from headlights. There's no impact on headlights because there's no traffic impacts.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:26 - 1:13:30)
Minimize unreasonable departure from the character materials and scale the buildings in the vicinity.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:31 - 1:13:35)
I think we've all said that this looks great and is in line with the character,

[Speaker 3] (1:13:35 - 1:13:36)
so no issue there.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:37 - 1:13:54)
in the mice contamination of ground water, um there's there is nothing there other than the, you know, outside the envelope of the the relocation of the utilities that we discussed. Um ensure compliance with uh the provisions of this zoning by-law and

[Speaker 3] (1:13:54 - 1:13:58)
Including parking and landscaping, we determined that it complies.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:58 - 1:13:58)
Again,

[Speaker 6] (1:13:58 - 1:13:59)
No,

[Speaker 3] (1:13:59 - 1:13:59)
minimizing

[Speaker 6] (1:13:59 - 1:14:02)
but it doesn't. In fact, excuse me, that one does not comply.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:02 - 1:14:02)
Oh, sure,

[Speaker 6] (1:14:02 - 1:14:03)
And that

[Speaker 3] (1:14:03 - 1:14:04)
but we're going to go to the ZBA.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:04 - 1:14:04)
should be

[Speaker 3] (1:14:04 - 1:14:04)
Right,

[Speaker 6] (1:14:04 - 1:14:05)
conditioned

[Speaker 3] (1:14:05 - 1:14:05)
right.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:05 - 1:14:06)
upon ZBA,

[Speaker 3] (1:14:06 - 1:14:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:07 - 1:14:07)
right?

[Speaker 3] (1:14:09 - 1:14:11)
Minimize adverse traffic impact.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:11 - 1:14:12)
There is no traffic impact.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:13 - 1:14:15)
And minimize coastal flooding.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:16 - 1:14:16)
Again,

[Speaker 3] (1:14:16 - 1:14:19)
it's all within the envelope of the house. There really is no impact there.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:19 - 1:14:19)
So.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:22 - 1:14:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:22 - 1:14:24)
With that, any other comments or a motion?

[Speaker 6] (1:14:26 - 1:14:29)
I don't have any other comments.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:29 - 1:14:31)
I'm happy to make a motion unless somebody else wants to do it.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:32 - 1:14:33)
Let it rip.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:34 - 1:14:34)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:35 - 1:14:42)
I move that the planning board grant a site plan special permit for 11 Eula Street,

[Speaker 6] (1:14:42 - 1:14:42)
Swampscott,

[Speaker 6] (1:14:42 - 1:14:50)
conditioned upon the applicant obtaining zoning relief from the zoning board of appeals.

[Speaker 6] (1:14:51 - 1:14:56)
And with the recommendation that the applicant work with the planning board,

[Speaker 6] (1:14:56 - 1:15:13)
excuse me, with the historical commission to resolve any of their questions and also to be tuned into any comments from the neighbors and just be willing to answer questions and so forth as you've done already but in case anyone else pops up.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:15 - 1:15:16)
And that's it.

[Speaker 4] (1:15:19 - 1:15:20)
I'll second the motion.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:20 - 1:15:21)
Alright.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:21 - 1:15:22)
All in favor?

[Speaker 3] (1:15:23 - 1:15:24)
Angela, you want to start?

[Speaker 6] (1:15:24 - 1:15:26)
Angela Eppolito, aye.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:27 - 1:15:28)
Chair Germain, yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:29 - 1:15:30)
Joe Sheridan,

[Speaker 3] (1:15:30 - 1:15:30)
yes.

[Speaker 4] (1:15:30 - 1:15:31)
Marianne Pardy, yes.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:31 - 1:15:32)
Okay, so moved.

[Speaker 6] (1:15:33 - 1:15:33)
Great.

[Speaker 2] (1:15:33 - 1:15:33)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:33 - 1:15:34)
Thanks.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:34 - 1:15:34)
Beautiful.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:38 - 1:15:39)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:15:41 - 1:15:44)
With that, we will move on to

[Speaker 3] (1:15:47 - 1:15:59)
Hearing for proposed amendments of the zoning by-law prepared by Kleinfelder and the Department of Public Works to support MS4 permit compliance through reducing impervious surface area and promoting green infrastructure.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:00 - 1:16:01)
Yeah, good evening.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:01 - 1:16:07)
My name is Mark Noonan. I'm the assistant engineer with the DPW and we have online here.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:07 - 1:16:08)
We have Elise Thompson from

[Speaker 7] (1:16:11 - 1:16:13)
The town has an MS4 permit,

[Speaker 7] (1:16:13 - 1:16:16)
municipal separate storm sewer system.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:17 - 1:16:24)
That permit basically allows us to discharge our water to the Nahant Bay and other receiving water bodies around town.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:25 - 1:16:31)
Every year there's requirements of the permit that we have to meet. There's all sorts of things we have to do.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:31 - 1:16:40)
And we're in year eight of the permit right now. And one of those requirements is to take a good hard look at our own bylaws.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:41 - 1:16:47)
and regulations as they relate to stormwater management and green infrastructure.

[Speaker 7] (1:16:48 - 1:17:04)
So Elise has been working with employees at Town Hall to get ideas and incorporate proposed red lines into the subdivision rules and regs and the zoning bylaw.

[Speaker 7] (1:17:05 - 1:17:07)
So I'm going to hand it over to Elise for her presentation.

[Speaker 7] (1:17:09 - 1:17:10)
I'll see if I can grab Shields up. those.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:13 - 1:17:16)
Hi, thanks everyone. I'm going to share my screen.

[Speaker 4] (1:17:18 - 1:17:18)
It's only two I

[Speaker 3] (1:17:18 - 1:17:18)
Oh,

[Speaker 4] (1:17:18 - 1:17:18)
think,

[Speaker 3] (1:17:18 - 1:17:19)
there's only two,

[Speaker 4] (1:17:19 - 1:17:19)
so we okay. share,

[Speaker 3] (1:17:19 - 1:17:19)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:17:19 - 1:17:20)
yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:21 - 1:17:21)
But just

[Speaker 1] (1:17:21 - 1:17:23)
You just left me out. Is it going to be on the screen?

[Speaker 4] (1:17:23 - 1:17:24)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:17:24 - 1:17:24)
That's fine.

[Speaker 4] (1:17:24 - 1:17:24)
it'll be on the screen.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:24 - 1:17:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:31 - 1:17:31)
Alright,

[Speaker 6] (1:17:31 - 1:17:32)
are you able to see it?

[Speaker 3] (1:17:33 - 1:17:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:33 - 1:17:34)
Yeah

[Speaker 1] (1:17:34 - 1:17:34)
Thanks.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:35 - 1:17:37)
Okay, so as Mark said,

[Speaker 6] (1:17:37 - 1:17:38)
hi,

[Speaker 6] (1:17:38 - 1:17:47)
I'm Elise Thompson with Kleinfelder and we're working with the town on proposed revisions for the ordinances for the Swampscott MS4 permit.

[Speaker 6] (1:17:48 - 1:17:57)
So, the 2016 Massachusetts small municipal separate storm sewer permit, or the MS4 permit,

[Speaker 6] (1:17:57 - 1:18:00)
is issued under the Clean Water Act NPDES program,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:01 - 1:18:15)
and this permit requires the town to assess the current street design and parking lot guidelines that affect the creation of impervious cover and assess local regulations to determine feasibility of allowing green infrastructure.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:17 - 1:18:24)
updating regulations with the recommendations made to minimize impervious cover and incorporate green infrastructure in the town bylaws.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:26 - 1:18:34)
So I think in permit year five we reviewed the following the Swabscot zoning bylaws,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:34 - 1:18:36)
the subdivision rules and regulations,

[Speaker 6] (1:18:36 - 1:18:40)
and the stormwater management and erosion control rules and regulations.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:45 - 1:18:56)
reviewed and found some changes for the zoning bylaw and subdivision rules and regulations that could be incorporated to increase use of green infrastructure and low impact development.

[Speaker 6] (1:18:57 - 1:19:05)
So the last two years town departments that provided comments on the red lines included the Department of Public Works,

[Speaker 6] (1:19:05 - 1:19:06)
Community and Economic Development,

[Speaker 6] (1:19:07 - 1:19:11)
Department of Facilities Management and select members of the planning board.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:13 - 1:19:13)
months ago.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:14 - 1:19:24)
KP Law also performed a legal review of these red lines and the red lines presented in the powerpoint incorporate these changes from the town and the legal

[Speaker 1] (1:19:26 - 1:19:38)
We presented the proposed zoning bylaw revisions to the zoning board in April and now we are presenting the zoning bylaw and subdivision rules and regulations revisions to the planning board.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:42 - 1:19:56)
So basically the goals of these revisions are to identify areas within the bylaws and regulations that allow for excessive creation of impervious areas and impede the implementation of green infrastructure.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:56 - 1:20:03)
So we looked at EPA guidance documents and other Massachusetts municipalities and we also prioritized revisions.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:05 - 1:20:21)
based on feedback from DPW and the goals outlined in the master plan from SwapGut 2025 and the main items are minimizing impervious areas and removing barriers for implementation of green infrastructure.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:23 - 1:20:29)
So going into the red lines or the revisions of the subdivision rules and regulations

[Speaker 1] (1:20:30 - 1:20:40)
The first item is adding language to limit area of impact, grading, and erosion while maintaining safety and usability.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:41 - 1:20:43)
This is in the design,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:43 - 1:20:48)
section 4 design standards under streets for location and alignment.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:51 - 1:20:54)
Then regarding road width,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:54 - 1:20:55)
this is specified in section

[Speaker 12] (1:20:55 - 1:20:56)
4.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:55 - 1:21:00)
specifying that the street width of 28 feet,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:00 - 1:21:06)
which is specified in section four design standards streets,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:06 - 1:21:22)
the 28 feet is a maximum for residential subdivisions and allowing for reduced roadway width square appropriate including for low density residential areas or streets with high pedestrian areas.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:27 - 1:21:31)
additional space for roadside low-impact development infrastructure,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:31 - 1:21:33)
such as rain gardens,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:33 - 1:21:36)
bioswales, or curb bike lanes.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:39 - 1:21:50)
Regarding curbing under the design standards for streets in the section 5 for the required improvements for approved subdivision street and roadways,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:50 - 1:21:52)
this is allowing curb cuts.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:53 - 1:22:08)
not chambered, perforated curbing for low impacts development alongside roadways and allowing decreased curb distances for low traffic areas and allowing pinch points which is reductions in road widths.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:13 - 1:22:17)
Regarding the design standards for dead-end streets,

[Speaker 1] (1:22:18 - 1:22:27)
This is adding a provision to allow for one-way loop streets in the cul-de-sacs to minimize impervious area creation.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:27 - 1:22:38)
So it would just be a one-way loop street instead of a cul-de-sac that could have a vegetated island within the middle.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:43 - 1:22:45)
Under design standards,

[Speaker 1] (1:22:46 - 1:22:48)
streets and protection of natural features,

[Speaker 1] (1:22:48 - 1:22:54)
adding language to preserve native soils and avoiding excessive grading.

[Speaker 1] (1:22:59 - 1:23:04)
Section five are the required improvements of an approved subdivision for the grass strips,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:04 - 1:23:19)
adding language allowing use of native vegetation and different soil or gravel mixes that can be used for rain garden swells or other low impact development features within those grass strips alongside streets.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:26 - 1:23:29)
alternatives to our water conveyance in the street right away,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:29 - 1:23:42)
adding language to allow for vegetated open channels instead of the traditional curb and gutter systems to convey street storm water runoff in low and medium density residential developments,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:42 - 1:23:43)
and

[Speaker 1] (1:23:46 - 1:23:52)
under section five for the required improvements regarding the storm and sub-surface drains,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:52 - 1:23:54)
water pipe and sewer line extensions.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:56 - 1:24:06)
encouraging use of green infrastructure and low impact development to convey tree storm water as streets and parking lots are replaced to be paved or installed.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:10 - 1:24:18)
Moving to the zoning bylaw proposed revisions, there's only a few proposed revisions for this bylaw.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:20 - 1:24:48)
regarding off-street commercial parking so this is allowed to decrease in parking requirements if there's proximity to general parking lots or structures nearby on street parking or access to multimodal transportation including bus routes bike lanes or community paths and this can be reduced with issuance of a special permit by the board of appeals the second one is regarding low impact development in parking lots

[Speaker 1] (1:24:49 - 1:24:56)
landscape islands in parking lots with six or more spaces to be dry swale, rain gardens,

[Speaker 1] (1:24:56 - 1:25:00)
or bio-retention areas that infiltrate stormwater runoff.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:03 - 1:25:13)
And then regarding off-street commercial parking for both the SMART Growth Zoning Overlay District and the Glover Multifamily Overlay District.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:15 - 1:25:38)
This would allow decreased stall size length to 18 feet to match the general stall dimensions of nine foot width by 18 foot length in the zoning bylaw and allowing up to 30% of the required parking to be designated for compact cars and those stalls shall be at least eight foot wide by 16 foot long.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:41 - 1:25:47)
papers given they do not present significant maintenance or accessibility concerns within the commercial parking lots?

[Speaker 2] (1:25:50 - 1:25:52)
Can I ask a quick question on that last statement?

[Speaker 1] (1:25:53 - 1:25:53)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:25:53 - 1:25:55)
Can you go back one slide?

[Speaker 2] (1:25:56 - 1:25:59)
To allow or to encourage?

[Speaker 1] (1:26:01 - 1:26:05)
I believe the language is allow.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:05 - 1:26:07)
I can go.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:08 - 1:26:08)
We have,

[Speaker 1] (1:26:08 - 1:26:10)
yes,

[Speaker 2] (1:26:10 - 1:26:16)
The only reason I ask is like allowing something as long as it doesn't cause a.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:20 - 1:26:22)
Right, a disruption for the developer,

[Speaker 3] (1:26:22 - 1:26:23)
which it's always going to do.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:25 - 1:26:31)
so the language that we have in the revisions have

[Speaker 1] (1:26:32 - 1:26:44)
So permeable pavers or paving materials may be permitted, providing they do not present significant maintenance concerns and comply with all applicable disability requirements.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:46 - 1:26:46)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:46 - 1:26:49)
So stating that it may be permitted.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:49 - 1:26:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:50 - 1:26:51)
Yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:26:51 - 1:26:51)
Go ahead.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:52 - 1:26:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:26:52 - 1:26:53)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:53 - 1:26:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:54 - 1:26:55)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:55 - 1:26:57)
So I guess.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:58 - 1:27:22)
these proposed revisions it's just removing obstacles to allow for a green infrastructure low impact development and reduce reduce impervious areas they're not necessarily all requirements but if any proposals come along that want to use low impact development or green infrastructure this removes barriers

[Speaker 1] (1:27:23 - 1:27:28)
But that would be present within the zoning bylaws or the subdivision rules and regulations.

[Speaker 2] (1:27:28 - 1:27:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:27:29 - 1:27:34)
Yeah, I don't think we have any barriers to permeable favors in those,

[Speaker 3] (1:27:34 - 1:27:37)
in the bylaws. In fact, we routinely encourage

[Speaker 3] (1:27:40 - 1:28:07)
developments to use as much pervious materials as possible and even in big projects like we're doing in Van Square to have green areas where we can you know provide better drainage and so forth but anyway my concern with saying allow is even that assumes that we have a developer coming along that really wants to use this stuff and we're going to say no you got to pay that with blacktop you know it's always the other way around

[Speaker 3] (1:28:08 - 1:28:16)
So my concern is that we need some language that has, I'd like to consider using some language that has some more teeth,

[Speaker 3] (1:28:16 - 1:28:26)
that we can refine a way to enforce it or, you know, I'm always looking at planning as a way to get to yes,

[Speaker 3] (1:28:26 - 1:28:27)
like how do we make this,

[Speaker 3] (1:28:27 - 1:28:31)
like if they use permeable papers, we'll give them X,

[Speaker 3] (1:28:31 - 1:28:32)
Y, Z,

[Speaker 3] (1:28:32 - 1:28:32)
you know, so.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:33 - 1:28:40)
trying to figure out some trends to get to our goals like these should be our goals not the goals of the developer basically

[Speaker 2] (1:28:41 - 1:28:47)
And I think that's where my question was based, because the allow seems as if the standard is to disallow,

[Speaker 2] (1:28:47 - 1:28:58)
and therefore, you know, we would consider this if you fought for it instead of saying we would, this was our desire.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:59 - 1:29:02)
Like it's okay if you want to use your paper,

[Speaker 4] (1:29:02 - 1:29:06)
we're going to, we'll let you do it. I mean, we're not not letting them do it now.

[Speaker 4] (1:29:06 - 1:29:07)
So I,

[Speaker 4] (1:29:07 - 1:29:17)
yeah, you understand what I mean. I'd like to find a way to make it, make it a little stronger. In fact, we did this back in, when we did the whole,

[Speaker 4] (1:29:17 - 1:29:18)
we did a Klein Felder study,

[Speaker 4] (1:29:18 - 1:29:19)
gosh.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:18 - 1:29:19)
gosh,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:19 - 1:29:21)
I think it was like a really long time ago,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:21 - 1:29:26)
that we used for the beach entryways and we also updated our coastal

[Speaker 2] (1:29:26 - 1:29:28)
coastal resiliency study.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:28 - 1:29:31)
flood area overlay districts,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:31 - 1:29:32)
which is what it was called at the time, right?

[Speaker 1] (1:29:33 - 1:29:41)
And we put a lot of the language in there and we actually over time tried to strengthen that a little bit, you know, working with the...

[Speaker 1] (1:29:41 - 1:29:47)
There's also the Conservation Commission and trying to get those that language a little stronger

[Speaker 1] (1:29:48 - 1:29:59)
Which and then the new FEMA regulations help that because there there's a lot of new regulation around building in flood areas So that's given us a boost as well,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:59 - 1:29:59)
but yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:29:59 - 1:30:00)
I mean

[Speaker 1] (1:30:01 - 1:30:05)
These obviously these make so much sense especially in our community

[Speaker 1] (1:30:06 - 1:30:07)
We have you know

[Speaker 1] (1:30:08 - 1:30:13)
We have definitely had flooding problems and you know, it's just it's not going to let up so

[Speaker 1] (1:30:15 - 1:30:16)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:30:16 - 1:30:22)
I think I like this very much and I'd love to find ways to strengthen the language would be my comment

[Speaker 3] (1:30:24 - 1:30:28)
Is the smart growth overlay zoning that's the Vinson Square area that holds?

[Speaker 1] (1:30:28 - 1:30:30)
There are two.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:30 - 1:30:30)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (1:30:30 - 1:30:41)
the smart growth overlay zoning just was the original 40R district that is now, now has the Glover multifamily overlay district sitting on top of it.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:41 - 1:30:46)
So it's, you know, it's two overlay districts on top of the existing underlying zoning.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:47 - 1:30:51)
I know it's crazy, but the Glover multifamily overlay district is the one that

[Speaker 1] (1:30:51 - 1:30:54)
regulates that property right now

[Speaker 3] (1:30:54 - 1:30:54)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:54 - 1:31:18)
and so you know because we have a petitioner who's you know supposedly in the process of creating plans you know we have to I don't know that we can go back and change some requirements but that's why I'm saying sort of trade-off type of things are what I would be you know where I try to go with that

[Speaker 3] (1:31:19 - 1:31:26)
I guess what my question is leading to is this 30% of required parking allowed to be compact because are

[Speaker 1] (1:31:26 - 1:31:27)
I think they're already doing compact.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:27 - 1:31:29)
they that so that's what I was wondering

[Speaker 1] (1:31:29 - 1:31:29)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (1:31:29 - 1:31:29)
yeah

[Speaker 1] (1:31:29 - 1:31:33)
because you're trying to jam in as many parking spots as possible just, you know.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:33 - 1:31:35)
yeah okay

[Speaker 1] (1:31:44 - 1:31:45)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:31:47 - 1:31:55)
So, I guess looking at, for this off-street commercial parking,

[Speaker 4] (1:31:56 - 1:32:04)
I guess the revisions to this section doesn't state aloud,

[Speaker 4] (1:32:05 - 1:32:13)
it has that it may be permitted given that they do not present significant maintenance and accessibility concerns.

[Speaker 4] (1:32:15 - 1:32:18)
Yeah, I guess, as I said previously,

[Speaker 4] (1:32:19 - 1:32:42)
the proposed revisions were more so as guidelines and to minimize or reduce any language within the bylaws or revisions that could prevent green infrastructure or low impact development.

[Speaker 4] (1:32:45 - 1:32:50)
leaving it more so that it may be permitted and

[Speaker 1] (1:32:50 - 1:32:50)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:32:50 - 1:32:55)
that you know up to 30% of required parking may be designated for compact cars.

[Speaker 1] (1:32:55 - 1:32:56)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:32:57 - 1:33:00)
I mean, I think, you know, the recommendations,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:00 - 1:33:04)
in my opinion, are spot on and, you know,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:04 - 1:33:14)
I'd be happy to even go over the, you know, review some of the language with the chair and other people on the board just to kind of, you know, jot down where I think we could just, you know.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:14 - 1:33:40)
wordsmith it a bit to make it a little stronger if we wanted to you might have a little it might be a little tricky for us to to edit zoning that's currently being our amendment zoning that's currently you know in use or that's currently being applied under so but there's other things that we can do and I and I do think that you know we're definitely on the right track and this gives us a lot of good ideas

[Speaker 1] (1:33:41 - 1:33:43)
I think the subdivision recommendations are great.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:45 - 1:33:45)
Typically,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:46 - 1:33:47)
we don't even get streets that are that wide,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:47 - 1:33:49)
28 feet, because we just don't have room,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:49 - 1:33:50)
period.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:50 - 1:33:51)
So, yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:33:51 - 1:33:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:52 - 1:33:54)
and there's always,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:54 - 1:33:57)
but the recommendations are excellent and very helpful.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:58 - 1:34:09)
And I think narrowing those, I mean, since I've been on the board, we were looking at a paper street becoming a street and a lot of the regulations were excessive for the area.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:09 - 1:34:10)
So to have that.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:10 - 1:34:13)
Flexibility in there I think is a great addition.

[Speaker 5] (1:34:13 - 1:34:14)
Yeah agreed

[Speaker 1] (1:34:17 - 1:34:20)
And I also like the I've always liked the

[Speaker 1] (1:34:20 - 1:34:47)
the circle as opposed to the cul-de-sac I think it's cul-de-sacs are you know our fire department has routinely said yeah you know we'll we'll try to manage you know give us a hammerhead at least we can turn around I mean and it really puts our you know the fire the fire department at risk you know it's their bad and we've done it because you know people claim hardship and they can't build something like that and you know I that's

[Speaker 1] (1:34:48 - 1:34:50)
Something I think we really have to,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:50 - 1:35:00)
you know, we just don't have that many developments that it's going to, you know, that we shouldn't be doing this and, you know, I'd be fully in support of that.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:00 - 1:35:15)
I'm also curious, there's a couple of areas that I can think of in the Olmstead district where there are enormous cul-de-sacs that by actually getting in some water management would not only...

[Speaker 2] (1:35:15 - 1:35:18)
deal with some of the runoff, but it would also,

[Speaker 2] (1:35:18 - 1:35:20)
in a really powerful way,

[Speaker 2] (1:35:20 - 1:35:38)
impact getting some green into an area that's a heat well and, you know, so it'd be interesting to see if we can figure out ways to maybe address this and look at DPW plans to reduce paving when they're doing repair projects.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:40 - 1:35:44)
And even some of those little islands, you know, that are really,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:44 - 1:35:47)
you know, they're integral to the Olmsted design,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:47 - 1:35:51)
okay, those little triangular things that are within the district.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:51 - 1:35:57)
So I wouldn't, I'm not suggesting that any of those get modified or deleted, but within those islands,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:57 - 1:36:03)
maybe there's opportunities for rain garden space and improved drainage, that type of thing.

[Speaker 4] (1:36:08 - 1:36:24)
Yeah, I think any opportunity to use any of the space and to turn impervious cover into green infrastructure to infiltrate rainwater versus sending it to the stormwater system is what the goals of these revisions are.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:24 - 1:36:29)
So if you want to send us the red lines then I mean I'm assuming like Joey could

[Speaker 1] (1:36:30 - 1:36:33)
You know, first we would, maybe Chris Guy,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:33 - 1:36:35)
we can spend some time reviewing them.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:35 - 1:36:42)
For December 2026 we're going to need a timeline for, you know, how far back we have to start working,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:42 - 1:36:43)
which is probably like,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:43 - 1:36:54)
you know, in July to try to get the language right and get to town council and then, you know, just submit it in time to suggest to the select board and so on and so forth.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:55 - 1:37:01)
um so we should why don't we put together like a timeline or something and try to figure that out all

[Speaker 4] (1:37:02 - 1:37:14)
Yes, we have a memo with the revisions and the zoning bylaw and subdivision rules and regulations that I can send to Krista and she can distribute.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:15 - 1:37:15)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:15 - 1:37:15)
excellent

[Speaker 2] (1:37:15 - 1:37:16)
that'd be great

[Speaker 1] (1:37:16 - 1:37:19)
yeah really appreciate you guys doing that work

[Speaker 1] (1:37:20 - 1:37:25)
I think it's, you know, it's really important for all of us. And I don't personally see anything,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:25 - 1:37:29)
you know, objectionable. I don't know how the other members feel,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:29 - 1:37:32)
but yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:33 - 1:37:35)
Nope. I think that was very positive and

[Speaker 6] (1:37:35 - 1:37:35)
Yeah, it's

[Speaker 2] (1:37:35 - 1:37:36)
it'll

[Speaker 6] (1:37:36 - 1:37:36)
great.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:36 - 1:37:40)
be great to, you know, look at it and then, yeah, we can find some time, Angela,

[Speaker 2] (1:37:40 - 1:37:43)
to review and see what the timeline looks like.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:43 - 1:37:45)
You know to line everything up over the

[Speaker 7] (1:37:45 - 1:37:45)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:45 - 1:37:45)
summer.

[Speaker 7] (1:37:46 - 1:37:47)
Elise,

[Speaker 7] (1:37:47 - 1:37:48)
if it's the memo that you had sent earlier,

[Speaker 7] (1:37:48 - 1:37:54)
I will resend that to Angela and we can get comments to you sooner rather than later on

[Speaker 4] (1:37:54 - 1:37:54)
Yeah, it's

[Speaker 7] (1:37:54 - 1:37:55)
the language.

[Speaker 4] (1:37:55 - 1:37:55)
the same.

[Speaker 7] (1:37:55 - 1:37:56)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (1:37:56 - 1:37:57)
Yep, it's the same memo.

[Speaker 2] (1:37:57 - 1:37:58)
Okay, great.

[Speaker 7] (1:37:58 - 1:38:02)
We'll send that so that we can look at it sooner and then we'll get any specific comments to you.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:02 - 1:38:03)
Yeah

[Speaker 4] (1:38:04 - 1:38:05)
That sounds good. Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:06 - 1:38:07)
Thank you.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:07 - 1:38:08)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:38:08 - 1:38:08)
thanks

[Speaker 4] (1:38:09 - 1:38:10)
Thanks everyone.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:11 - 1:38:12)
Thank you.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:12 - 1:38:12)
Thank you

[Speaker 1] (1:38:13 - 1:38:14)
Good night. Thanks.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:16 - 1:38:27)
The next thing on our list is discussion of potential zoning amendment to the Humphrey Street Overlay District to preserve existing ground floor commercial space within mixed-use buildings.

[Speaker 7] (1:38:30 - 1:38:33)
So this is me so hold on one second let me share my screen

[Speaker 2] (1:38:47 - 1:38:50)
I wonder if our earlier architect knows he left his

[Speaker 8] (1:38:50 - 1:38:50)
I was wondering

[Speaker 2] (1:38:50 - 1:38:50)
computer

[Speaker 8] (1:38:50 - 1:38:50)
the same

[Speaker 2] (1:38:50 - 1:38:51)
on.

[Speaker 8] (1:38:51 - 1:38:53)
thing. At least it's muted.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:53 - 1:38:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:55 - 1:38:56)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:38:57 - 1:39:14)
Okay, so I put together a brief presentation just for a discussion with the board about the Humphrey Street Overlay District and potentially trying to figure out if we want to take some measures to preserve ground floor commercial in the Humphrey Street Overlay District.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:17 - 1:39:27)
I'll get started by saying that we have had quite a few recent inquiries over the past year or so basically

[Speaker 1] (1:39:30 - 1:39:34)
the way that the Humphrey Street overlay district zoning is written

[Speaker 1] (1:39:35 - 1:39:41)
Um there's nothing preserving or there are no protections for existing ground-floor commercial,

[Speaker 1] (1:39:41 - 1:39:51)
so if like the um requests we've been seeing, it would only require planning board

[Speaker 1] (1:39:52 - 1:40:02)
approval for a site plan special permit and design review to convert an existing commercial building to all residential under six units.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:03 - 1:40:14)
So right now there's no provision in the Humphrey Street Overlay District that is protecting that existing ground floor commercial and that existing ground floor retail from being converted to residential.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:16 - 1:40:40)
And the intent of the Humphrey Street Overlay District is to promote mixed-use development, so support a walkable, vibrant downtown, and encourage economic activity in small businesses, so the bylaw allowing for the conversion of existing ground-floor commercial to completely residential doesn't align with the purpose of the Humphrey Street Overlay District.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:41 - 1:40:43)
So we have had multiple...

[Speaker 1] (1:40:44 - 1:40:53)
Requests and plans that have been approved, plans that are in process, and pre-application requests to do this.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:54 - 1:40:58)
Developers will say there's no, you know...

[Speaker 1] (1:40:58 - 1:41:04)
There's no market demand for office or commercial or brick and mortar nowadays,

[Speaker 1] (1:41:04 - 1:41:05)
but really for,

[Speaker 1] (1:41:05 - 1:41:09)
and that is a trend in certain markets,

[Speaker 1] (1:41:09 - 1:41:10)
but really for the Humphrey Street overlay,

[Speaker 1] (1:41:10 - 1:41:13)
we're trying to preserve those neighborhood scale type uses.

[Speaker 1] (1:41:13 - 1:41:21)
So that will always be in demand for a walkable corridor that's in line with the purpose of the Humphrey Street overlay district.

[Speaker 1] (1:41:21 - 1:41:25)
So it's a little different than the trend we're seeing away from office uses or...

[Speaker 1] (1:41:26 - 1:41:32)
just general commercial type stores, um it it really is something we wanna preserve in this district.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:35 - 1:41:35)
I mean I I

[Speaker 2] (1:41:37 - 1:41:42)
we haven't discussed this yet, but I completely agree. I think one of the things that

[Speaker 3] (1:41:42 - 1:41:42)
Me too.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:42 - 1:41:51)
that Humphry Street has suffered from for years is its inability to have a critical mass of retail and restaurant.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:52 - 1:41:52)
And

[Speaker 4] (1:41:52 - 1:41:52)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (1:41:52 - 1:42:10)
it um you know I've only been here twenty one years, but um most of that has been a real struggle and it's not until last few years that the the d the dynamic nature of Humphrey Street has started emerging.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:10 - 1:42:12)
And I think the loss of

[Speaker 2] (1:42:13 - 1:42:20)
storefronts um to create residential really plays against this. Um

[Speaker 5] (1:42:20 - 1:42:20)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:42:20 - 1:42:30)
so I I think it would be a great thing to to introduce. The question that I have is how do we introduce that?

[Speaker 1] (1:42:30 - 1:42:32)
Right. And that's what we'll get into.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:32 - 1:42:34)
So what we're seeing right now is a trend that

[Speaker 1] (1:42:35 - 1:42:45)
would allow for incremental loss of ground floor commercial over time. So like s it's slowly going away and converting to residential um which isn't visible, you know,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:47 - 1:42:55)
overnight, but it's something that um definitely impacts uh the mixed use um land use of the corridor.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:56 - 1:42:56)
Um

[Speaker 1] (1:42:57 - 1:43:26)
So here is just a general map of the underlying zoning for the Humphrey Street overlay district. The specific trend that we've been seeing is in the B1 underlying zoning is what allows for residential uses by right. So in these B1 areas is where people could potentially come in and convert commercial.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:27 - 1:43:35)
properties to residential under six units and not have to go through any sort of use permit process.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:36 - 1:43:39)
They would have to go through special permit for design review,

[Speaker 1] (1:43:39 - 1:43:43)
but they would not have to go through to the zoning board regarding the use.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:44 - 1:43:45)
And that's in the B1.

[Speaker 6] (1:43:45 - 1:43:47)
Yeah, even more importantly,

[Speaker 6] (1:43:47 - 1:43:48)
Dr.

[Speaker 6] (1:43:48 - 1:43:48)
Chung.

[Speaker 6] (1:43:49 - 1:44:08)
build on to what Chris is saying when these kind of infield developments are happening and people say oh but that's what Swampskip really needs you know we need these kind of market rate what they call them a workforce that's the new that's the new term development and but but not one of them has been anything other than market rate

[Speaker 6] (1:44:09 - 1:44:12)
which they're extremely expensive apartments and

[Speaker 7] (1:44:12 - 1:44:17)
Well, that's why they do it, because it's more lucrative for them.

[Speaker 6] (1:44:17 - 1:44:35)
right exactly so it's just and then they can flip the building and walk away nobody wants to deal with trying to you know or partner with anyone that has a creative outlook on a space or that wants to work with the town to create kind of an energy a little energetic center where there could be you know the restaurant we've done

[Speaker 6] (1:44:35 - 1:44:48)
really well with restaurants along Humphrey Street and yeah so I 100% agree it's also been an issue for us at other properties that we are

[Speaker 6] (1:44:49 - 1:45:13)
We have requests in on that are not necessarily in Humphrey Street that are also, you know, down by the railroad on, you know, Pine Street was that same situation. Pine Street started off with the first plans we had had commercial space on the bottom because it was a commercial property for years and years and it had residential on top and we went through many iterations of that.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:13 - 1:45:15)
This is all prior to...

[Speaker 6] (1:45:16 - 1:45:40)
the veterans building going in there but that was kind of you know led up to that but in any event that it's happening in that area as well if I could just jump in and say one more thing Kristen it's all in support of what Kristen has put together here you know when we did the Vin and Square zoning the rezoning there what was really important is that

[Speaker 6] (1:45:42 - 1:45:48)
We didn't lose critical commercial space in Vin and Square.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:48 - 1:45:52)
So we didn't, you know, when that mall was built, there was a whole,

[Speaker 6] (1:45:52 - 1:45:59)
you know, I don't know, you're all too young to remember how the SpongeBob mall looked,

[Speaker 6] (1:45:59 - 1:46:01)
but they were sort of, it was a really ugly mall,

[Speaker 6] (1:46:01 - 1:46:04)
no offense to Andy if he's listening,

[Speaker 6] (1:46:04 - 1:46:10)
but it was very ugly. It was double stories, you'd walk in an aisle down the center, so it was sort of double deep for stores.

[Speaker 6] (1:46:10 - 1:46:37)
the retail stores that are there are extremely deep so we were like well somebody wants to make it a little smaller they can but the point is we wrote the when we rewrote the zoning any existing building had to maintain depending on the building at least 50 percent up to 75 percent of the commercial space that was in existence if it was going to be modified in any way and as it turns out we are actually increasing commercial space in that area

[Speaker 6] (1:46:37 - 1:46:53)
yeah and building one residential building that has parking underneath so it hasn't happened and I think that's a that's been a really successful policy is something that if we want to amend the Humphrey Street overlay we certainly could

[Speaker 7] (1:46:54 - 1:46:58)
So my misunderstanding by being B1, is it zoned B1?

[Speaker 7] (1:46:58 - 1:46:59)
Like if

[Speaker 1] (1:46:59 - 1:46:59)
So

[Speaker 7] (1:46:59 - 1:47:03)
I'm looking through this, it doesn't, it says it needs a special permit for residential.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:03 - 1:47:09)
under six units, so in the Humphrey Street overlay district standards, there's a table.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:10 - 1:47:21)
So basically these mixed, existing mixed-use buildings would be converted into a six-unit residential building and that wouldn't require any sort of

[Speaker 1] (1:47:21 - 1:47:24)
review regarding the use of the building that would just be allowed

[Speaker 7] (1:47:24 - 1:47:24)
Yeah, it's

[Speaker 1] (1:47:24 - 1:47:24)
it

[Speaker 7] (1:47:24 - 1:47:24)
very specific.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:24 - 1:47:39)
would it would only be design review and Humphrey Street site plan special review permit review by the board but the board wouldn't be reviewing the use it wouldn't even be going to the zoning board of appeals for use which is kind of where

[Speaker 1] (1:47:41 - 1:47:43)
The size that there are no protections for those uses

[Speaker 7] (1:47:43 - 1:47:44)
It doesn't

[Speaker 1] (1:47:44 - 1:47:44)
in

[Speaker 7] (1:47:44 - 1:47:44)
seem

[Speaker 1] (1:47:44 - 1:47:44)
the like district.

[Speaker 7] (1:47:44 - 1:47:47)
it, yeah, it doesn't seem like it was the intent of the overlay district.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:47 - 1:47:48)
Exactly. So the

[Speaker 7] (1:47:48 - 1:47:48)
By

[Speaker 1] (1:47:48 - 1:47:49)
end right.

[Speaker 7] (1:47:49 - 1:47:54)
doing B_ one, it seems like they were probably trying to discourage residential development

[Speaker 1] (1:47:54 - 1:47:54)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:47:54 - 1:47:55)
on the ground level.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:55 - 1:48:02)
The purpose of the district is to promote, you know, vibrant walkable mixed uses and

[Speaker 2] (1:48:02 - 1:48:02)
And

[Speaker 1] (1:48:02 - 1:48:02)
the

[Speaker 2] (1:48:02 - 1:48:02)
I where

[Speaker 1] (1:48:02 - 1:48:03)
way it's written

[Speaker 2] (1:48:03 - 1:48:07)
was the thought probably that the six units would

[Speaker 2] (1:48:08 - 1:48:15)
That would sort of not exist within, but what we're seeing is expansion of these buildings. They grab the six units

[Speaker 7] (1:48:15 - 1:48:15)
They grab the

[Speaker 2] (1:48:15 - 1:48:15)
and they...

[Speaker 7] (1:48:15 - 1:48:16)
six.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:16 - 1:48:23)
Yep. And to convert the existing commercial space, take out the glass storefronts and just make it into a residential building,

[Speaker 1] (1:48:23 - 1:48:26)
which there's nothing currently as this is written to stop that.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:27 - 1:48:30)
Um in the design standards or um

[Speaker 2] (1:48:30 - 1:48:30)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:30 - 1:48:31)
in the regulations.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:32 - 1:48:50)
These dots on the map are current recent conversations we've had or recent approvals. So you can kind of see where the district itself isn't very big. So over time in this area losing the the ground floor commercial space would be um something that ideally we're not hoping to have happen.

[Speaker 2] (1:48:50 - 1:48:52)
Do you know which buildings those are?

[Speaker 1] (1:48:52 - 1:48:52)
Uh

[Speaker 2] (1:48:52 - 1:48:53)
I

[Speaker 1] (1:48:53 - 1:48:53)
I

[Speaker 2] (1:48:53 - 1:48:53)
think like

[Speaker 1] (1:48:53 - 1:48:54)
do specifically. I'm not gonna

[Speaker 1] (1:48:55 - 1:48:56)
uh call them call

[Speaker 2] (1:48:56 - 1:48:56)
Okay,

[Speaker 1] (1:48:56 - 1:48:56)
them

[Speaker 2] (1:48:56 - 1:48:56)
sure.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:56 - 1:49:04)
call them out specifically only because there are conversations that are mid-process they're allowed as it's written right now they're allowed to to do it

[Speaker 2] (1:49:04 - 1:49:04)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:04 - 1:49:09)
um we have in conversations I've encouraged

[Speaker 1] (1:49:17 - 1:49:29)
So this is this map is looking at the current land use and it's kind of hard to see the mixed uses on the screen as it's shown but it's kind of these dots.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:30 - 1:49:30)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:31 - 1:49:32)
and

[Speaker 1] (1:49:33 - 1:49:38)
the fabric of the Humphrey Shooter Really District,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:38 - 1:49:43)
all of these blue parcels are tax exempt,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:43 - 1:49:45)
so you can't even consider them.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:45 - 1:49:46)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:46 - 1:49:52)
there aren't a lot of mixed uses, but there are a lot in this area and sprinkled throughout. Um,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:52 - 1:49:56)
and so when you're thinking of even losing a few properties,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:56 - 1:49:57)
um,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:57 - 1:49:58)
losing that ground floor commercial.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:59 - 1:50:08)
Every property makes a big difference um and in this corridor and that's kind of what this the point that this map is trying to get across.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:08 - 1:50:10)
And we've had

[Speaker 3] (1:50:10 - 1:50:10)
And

[Speaker 2] (1:50:10 - 1:50:10)
some

[Speaker 3] (1:50:10 - 1:50:10)
again,

[Speaker 2] (1:50:10 - 1:50:11)
some

[Speaker 3] (1:50:11 - 1:50:11)
we can

[Speaker 2] (1:50:11 - 1:50:22)
loss of mixed use um through fire and so forth. Uh the the building next to Hadley School went from mixed use to straight commercial which is actually

[Speaker 2] (1:50:22 - 1:50:29)
fine in in many ways but um but it does erode the concept of mixed use.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:29 - 1:50:30)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:30 - 1:50:40)
It also pulls functional apartment-sized units, small units out of our housing stock. Um the

[Speaker 4] (1:50:41 - 1:50:47)
There are also subtle differences between like the the inn that was there now the apartments that are like on the ocean side,

[Speaker 2] (1:50:47 - 1:50:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:47 - 1:50:47)
right, that

[Speaker 2] (1:50:47 - 1:50:47)
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:47 - 1:50:51)
so that was activated as an inn with people coming and going and it's

[Speaker 4] (1:50:51 - 1:50:53)
It's much more closed down now,

[Speaker 2] (1:50:53 - 1:50:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:50:53 - 1:50:54)
the Marriott.

[Speaker 1] (1:50:55 - 1:50:59)
Okay, so this is kind of, I think I've already gone over this,

[Speaker 1] (1:50:59 - 1:51:01)
why is this happening?

[Speaker 1] (1:51:01 - 1:51:03)
Mixed use is allowed but it's not required.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:05 - 1:51:08)
The B1 area is where this is happening.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:11 - 1:51:19)
The ground floor design standards are written for commercial uses and almost assume commercial uses, but they're not required.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:19 - 1:51:22)
So when there are these conversions to residential,

[Speaker 1] (1:51:22 - 1:51:27)
it doesn't always make sense the way that the design standards are written.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:29 - 1:51:33)
And so basically converting commercial to residential,

[Speaker 1] (1:51:33 - 1:51:35)
there's no regulation on that.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:38 - 1:51:40)
That's kind of where we want to go with this.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:41 - 1:51:42)
So how should we respond?

[Speaker 1] (1:51:43 - 1:51:46)
So you could require ground floor commercial use.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:48 - 1:51:59)
That, you know, could potentially having it as a requirement would be, you know, something that would definitely be enforceable.

[Speaker 1] (1:51:59 - 1:52:03)
But there are a lot of existing older uses in the area.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:06 - 1:52:12)
You know, that's something to weigh, whether you would want it to be a requirement or there could be the

[Speaker 1] (1:52:14 - 1:52:23)
simplest way to go about this and to start protecting things right now would be to just regulate the conversion of existing commercial space. So trying to protect what we have.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:24 - 1:52:25)
I'm rather than requiring,

[Speaker 1] (1:52:25 - 1:52:28)
we can have this conversation,

[Speaker 1] (1:52:28 - 1:52:39)
do we want to require mixed use or do we at the very least want to regulate the conversion of existing commercial space to residential so it's not incrementally lost over time?

[Speaker 4] (1:52:39 - 1:52:40)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:43 - 1:52:43)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:44 - 1:52:47)
I have a slide on conversion control.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:47 - 1:52:50)
I also have a slide on required mixed use.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:50 - 1:52:54)
I didn't, it's hidden right now. We can pull it back up if we want to talk about it.

[Speaker 1] (1:52:54 - 1:52:59)
But at the very least, I think that the board should consider thinking about conversion control,

[Speaker 1] (1:52:59 - 1:53:08)
which would be something along the lines of requiring a special permit to convert from commercial to residential in the Humphrey Street overlay district.

[Speaker 1] (1:53:08 - 1:53:10)
It would get reviewed. They would have to.

[Speaker 1] (1:53:10 - 1:53:37)
to have some criteria they would meet, whether it's demonstrated vacancy for over twelve months, um if if their argument is this specific space, you know they would have to prove that and then the board would have to weigh that um that would provide case by case flexibility, um as well as pres preserving existing commercial uses, um but it would rely on the r board review.

[Speaker 1] (1:53:39 - 1:53:39)
Um

[Speaker 1] (1:53:41 - 1:53:57)
so that's something we can start by talking about that, um and then we can also talk a about potentially requiring ground floor commercial in certain areas. Um I can pull that slide up or you know there's a version of this where it could be a little bit of both.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:58 - 1:53:59)
Could you show us the other slide so we could

[Speaker 1] (1:53:59 - 1:53:59)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:53:59 - 1:54:02)
see it both, then maybe we can talk about it.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:06 - 1:54:12)
I mean, I think the concern with requiring it is this idea of vacancy, right, we don't want a bunch of vacant storefronts if

[Speaker 1] (1:54:12 - 1:54:12)
Mm-mm.

[Speaker 4] (1:54:13 - 1:54:19)
w economic times dictate that we d can't keep a commercial base in these fronts, but

[Speaker 2] (1:54:20 - 1:54:23)
But that's also a that's a controllable phenomenon

[Speaker 4] (1:54:23 - 1:54:24)
Right, so it can it be, yeah, right.

[Speaker 2] (1:54:24 - 1:54:27)
you know, you can create an unrentable space

[Speaker 2] (1:54:28 - 1:54:32)
through a condition and b. rent, you know the

[Speaker 6] (1:54:32 - 1:54:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:54:32 - 1:54:33)
the

[Speaker 5] (1:54:33 - 1:54:36)
Well right, they could get it and just say okay, well I'm gonna wait twelve months,

[Speaker 6] (1:54:36 - 1:54:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:36 - 1:54:36)
and

[Speaker 2] (1:54:36 - 1:54:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:37 - 1:54:37)
uh

[Speaker 6] (1:54:37 - 1:54:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:54:37 - 1:54:38)
that's my fee

[Speaker 2] (1:54:38 - 1:54:38)
And that's

[Speaker 5] (1:54:38 - 1:54:40)
for building the building is the loss of the rent.

[Speaker 2] (1:54:40 - 1:54:44)
or or, you know, they can market something it's sitting vacant, but you

[Speaker 6] (1:54:44 - 1:54:45)
Now

[Speaker 2] (1:54:45 - 1:54:45)
know then like

[Speaker 6] (1:54:45 - 1:54:45)
actually

[Speaker 2] (1:54:45 - 1:54:45)
one

[Speaker 6] (1:54:45 - 1:54:45)
least the

[Speaker 2] (1:54:45 - 1:54:46)
of things the things

[Speaker 5] (1:54:46 - 1:54:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:54:46 - 1:54:57)
around here is that our our perceived rent value is out of a line. I I once had a uh merchant from actually it was in Vidensk where before

[Speaker 2] (1:54:56 - 1:55:02)
before he closed he moved to Marblehead, but he al we used to have Trader Joe's.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:02 - 1:55:03)
Mm-hmm. I

[Speaker 2] (1:55:03 - 1:55:08)
The remember. reason we don't have Trader Joe's anymore is the the the retail the

[Speaker 2] (1:55:10 - 1:55:18)
retail equation is in concentric circles. And when you place a place like that against the ocean,

[Speaker 2] (1:55:18 - 1:55:23)
a huge section of that concentric circle has no residents in

[Speaker 2] (1:55:23 - 1:55:34)
So that it doesn't match up to performances. So you you sort of lose the big the big businesses like Trader Joe's that they're able to draw those concentric circles in other locations.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:34 - 1:55:36)
That's why it's in August now

[Speaker 4] (1:55:36 - 1:55:36)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:36 - 1:55:41)
is they just didn't they couldn't draw from this this region and that's how they did their math.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:41 - 1:55:43)
According to them,

[Speaker 2] (1:55:43 - 1:55:43)
It

[Speaker 4] (1:55:43 - 1:55:43)
the space

[Speaker 2] (1:55:43 - 1:55:44)
was the lowest

[Speaker 4] (1:55:44 - 1:55:48)
was not ideal to expand or do anything with it. They were

[Speaker 2] (1:55:48 - 1:55:49)
And it was their lowest revenue

[Speaker 4] (1:55:49 - 1:55:50)
It was their lowest revenue,

[Speaker 2] (1:55:50 - 1:55:50)
in

[Speaker 4] (1:55:50 - 1:55:50)
yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:50 - 1:55:50)
the.

[Speaker 4] (1:55:50 - 1:55:50)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:55:50 - 1:55:50)
So

[Speaker 7] (1:55:50 - 1:55:51)
No,

[Speaker 2] (1:55:51 - 1:55:51)
help

[Speaker 7] (1:55:51 - 1:55:54)
but that's because that's because they couldn't sell beer and wine

[Speaker 4] (1:55:54 - 1:55:54)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (1:55:54 - 1:56:05)
and they couldn't sell beer and wine because they didn't have the space and and we ended up creating new, you know, liquor permits or permits for beer and wine permits,

[Speaker 7] (1:56:05 - 1:56:08)
but the fact was that they couldn't expand their space,

[Speaker 7] (1:56:08 - 1:56:10)
it wasn't big enough for that and

[Speaker 2] (1:56:10 - 1:56:10)
that's the thing

[Speaker 7] (1:56:10 - 1:56:11)
they had

[Speaker 2] (1:56:11 - 1:56:11)
with

[Speaker 7] (1:56:11 - 1:56:11)
to get out.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:11 - 1:56:15)
the thing with Marblehead and Swampscott is we have this huge turnover because

[Speaker 1] (1:56:15 - 1:56:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:16 - 1:56:18)
We do have a limited draw,

[Speaker 2] (1:56:18 - 1:56:19)
but

[Speaker 7] (1:56:19 - 1:56:19)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:19 - 1:56:25)
that compared with our rental prices. So it's something that's controlled within the market.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:26 - 1:56:28)
Well the commercial tax base is of a concern here too.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:28 - 1:56:29)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (1:56:29 - 1:56:31)
Like we have yeah they have to pay twice as much as they do in marble heads.

[Speaker 7] (1:56:31 - 1:56:32)
Right. Exactly.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:32 - 1:56:35)
But Marblehead has as much of a, if you watch the turnover in Marblehead,

[Speaker 4] (1:56:35 - 1:56:36)
Oh they have a lot of turnover yeah right.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:36 - 1:56:37)
a huge turnover.

[Speaker 5] (1:56:38 - 1:56:41)
So Christa, you were saying that one of the...

[Speaker 5] (1:56:42 - 1:56:48)
Concerns with this option just requiring ground floor use is that there's certain uses

[Speaker 1] (1:56:48 - 1:56:57)
Right. So we can talk a little bit about this. So this would be requiring non-residential uses on the ground floor.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:58 - 1:57:00)
It could be in certain locations on Humphrey Street.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:00 - 1:57:02)
It could be, you know, the entirety of the overlay.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:03 - 1:57:06)
That would definitely be the strongest option.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:06 - 1:57:16)
The consideration would be that it reduces flexibility for existing property owners and it would require relief to not meet that. You know, it would be.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:17 - 1:57:32)
People would have to get a special permit to opt out rather than um a special permit to change something that's existing to something less desirable like commercial ground floor to all residential. So it's

[Speaker 7] (1:57:32 - 1:57:32)
But I think you

[Speaker 1] (1:57:32 - 1:57:33)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:57:34 - 1:57:34)
I

[Speaker 1] (1:57:34 - 1:57:34)
Go

[Speaker 7] (1:57:34 - 1:57:46)
think ahead. it's completely reasonable to require that or at least a portion to do what we did in Venom to say that anything that's existing there that is a commercial space.

[Speaker 7] (1:57:47 - 1:57:52)
That any existing commercial space that is in B1, an underlying B1 district,

[Speaker 7] (1:57:52 - 1:57:58)
we can say, which includes any underlying B1 within the Humphrey Street overlay district,

[Speaker 7] (1:57:58 - 1:57:59)
because I think that's the,

[Speaker 7] (1:57:59 - 1:57:59)
you know,

[Speaker 4] (1:57:59 - 1:58:00)
That

[Speaker 7] (1:58:00 - 1:58:00)
the thing

[Speaker 4] (1:58:00 - 1:58:00)
was the

[Speaker 7] (1:58:00 - 1:58:00)
I

[Speaker 4] (1:58:00 - 1:58:00)
original

[Speaker 7] (1:58:00 - 1:58:00)
like to

[Speaker 4] (1:58:00 - 1:58:00)
intent,

[Speaker 7] (1:58:00 - 1:58:01)
see.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:01 - 1:58:03)
and I think that was the original intent of marking

[Speaker 7] (1:58:03 - 1:58:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:03 - 1:58:04)
it as a B1,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:04 - 1:58:04)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:58:05 - 1:58:05)
Right,

[Speaker 5] (1:58:05 - 1:58:06)
Can you

[Speaker 7] (1:58:06 - 1:58:06)
it's

[Speaker 5] (1:58:06 - 1:58:07)
can you put the map back

[Speaker 7] (1:58:07 - 1:58:07)
to,

[Speaker 5] (1:58:07 - 1:58:07)
up?

[Speaker 7] (1:58:07 - 1:58:22)
you know, maintain the residential portion of it on the ground floor and that the relief can be maybe the percentage of that that has to be, that has to remain commercial.

[Speaker 7] (1:58:22 - 1:58:30)
Like, you know, but they're not that big, you know, that the ground floors of many of those buildings are just not that big.

[Speaker 7] (1:58:31 - 1:58:37)
It's perfect for, you know, the kind of commercial uses that are actually doing well here.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:40 - 1:58:42)
And couldn't you also,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:42 - 1:58:46)
so to not penalize existing owners,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:46 - 1:58:47)
right,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:47 - 1:58:47)
couldn't you say,

[Speaker 1] (1:58:47 - 1:58:47)
Mm

[Speaker 4] (1:58:47 - 1:58:48)
okay,

[Speaker 1] (1:58:48 - 1:58:48)
-hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:48 - 1:58:51)
well, for the existing owners now,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:51 - 1:58:52)
you know, we can.

[Speaker 4] (1:58:53 - 1:58:56)
There could be some consideration for relief or special permit,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:56 - 1:58:59)
but at any transfer, when the property transfers,

[Speaker 4] (1:58:59 - 1:59:04)
then these stricter requirements fall in, like it's a requirement to make, you know.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:10 - 1:59:14)
they could they'd be great if we changed it they'd be grandfathered in like

[Speaker 1] (1:59:14 - 1:59:14)
anyway

[Speaker 3] (1:59:14 - 1:59:14)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:14 - 1:59:16)
though they'd be grandfathered in anyway yeah

[Speaker 4] (1:59:16 - 1:59:16)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:59:16 - 1:59:16)
um

[Speaker 4] (1:59:16 - 1:59:19)
if they're currently using the building,

[Speaker 4] (1:59:19 - 1:59:27)
I mean, you know, if they haven't applied for anything or it's just, you know, in ownership somewhere and it's not being used then

[Speaker 2] (1:59:28 - 1:59:28)
What could

[Speaker 4] (1:59:28 - 1:59:29)
Like

[Speaker 2] (1:59:29 - 1:59:29)
state and

[Speaker 4] (1:59:29 - 1:59:29)
any

[Speaker 2] (1:59:29 - 1:59:29)
what

[Speaker 4] (1:59:29 - 1:59:30)
other property.

[Speaker 2] (1:59:30 - 1:59:42)
would the special what would the special permit requirements look like going the other way if we said the base is that you have to have commercial but you can apply for a special permit to is it still like the same test that you

[Speaker 5] (1:59:42 - 1:59:55)
I mean that's something that if we're if we're drafting this into the bylaw we would come up with those provisions and the board could review them that way. Um something to note with these maps so if we were to require

[Speaker 5] (1:59:56 - 1:59:59)
ground floor commercial in B1.

[Speaker 5] (1:59:59 - 2:00:03)
There are a few properties, you know, that are just

[Speaker 2] (2:00:03 - 2:00:03)
All residential.

[Speaker 5] (2:00:03 - 2:00:24)
multi-family residential properties and the thought for why off the bat allowing for the conversion would be the simplest option is it's not, you know, the people who have existing property on Humphrey Street.

[Speaker 5] (2:00:25 - 2:00:35)
We don't want to cause alarm by, you know, changing the the requirement for their use. Um so, you know, there there are things to weigh um when considering

[Speaker 4] (2:00:35 - 2:00:35)
But if it's okay,

[Speaker 5] (2:00:35 - 2:00:37)
what we want this to see when when we get it passed.

[Speaker 4] (2:00:39 - 2:00:49)
But do you think there are concerns even if we're talking about existing uses and not something that, I mean we're not going to try to go back and claw back something that's been,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:49 - 2:00:52)
you know, 100% residential for and it's permitted,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:52 - 2:00:53)
it's built,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:53 - 2:00:54)
you know, we're not,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:54 - 2:00:57)
you know, I certainly think that that would be unfair,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:57 - 2:00:58)
but,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:58 - 2:00:59)
and,

[Speaker 4] (2:00:59 - 2:01:03)
you know, I can think of a couple of those right along that stretch,

[Speaker 4] (2:01:03 - 2:01:03)
but.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:05 - 2:01:07)
But I don't think if it,

[Speaker 4] (2:01:07 - 2:01:13)
you know, I think anything that's existing, we should be trying to, you know, trying to preserve.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:14 - 2:01:15)
We're talking about existing,

[Speaker 4] (2:01:16 - 2:01:16)
you

[Speaker 2] (2:01:16 - 2:01:16)
So

[Speaker 4] (2:01:16 - 2:01:16)
know, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:16 - 2:01:20)
this would be a bylaw change that needed to go in front of town meeting

[Speaker 1] (2:01:20 - 2:01:20)
Town meeting,

[Speaker 2] (2:01:20 - 2:01:20)
for it

[Speaker 1] (2:01:20 - 2:01:20)
yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:20 - 2:01:21)
to happen.

[Speaker 4] (2:01:21 - 2:01:21)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:21 - 2:01:28)
So I think one of the questions here is what is palatable,

[Speaker 2] (2:01:28 - 2:01:32)
what does not feel like it is.

[Speaker 2] (2:01:33 - 2:01:55)
um targeting property owners um and and what seems that something that we can defend as we have we have a strong desire to have Humphrey Street as a a mixed-use commercial corridor um

[Speaker 2] (2:01:57 - 2:01:58)
And therefore,

[Speaker 2] (2:01:58 - 2:02:12)
you know, it sounds, it sounds sort of kooky, but we were able, not kooky because I'm pointing to you because you said this and now I'm saying it was kooky, but realistically the Concordia went from public use to private use.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:12 - 2:02:14)
And it was a big swath of our main street.

[Speaker 4] (2:02:15 - 2:02:17)
Hold on, it was always private use.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:18 - 2:02:20)
Yeah, but the people were coming. I guess for me it was activated.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:20 - 2:02:21)
It was more activated.

[Speaker 6] (2:02:21 - 2:02:24)
But I could walk in, I could walk into,

[Speaker 4] (2:02:24 - 2:02:24)
Fairly,

[Speaker 6] (2:02:24 - 2:02:29)
I could walk into a space and now I cannot walk into that space.

[Speaker 4] (2:02:29 - 2:02:29)
but

[Speaker 6] (2:02:29 - 2:02:29)
I mean that's

[Speaker 4] (2:02:29 - 2:02:30)
you what could I'm walk

[Speaker 6] (2:02:30 - 2:02:30)
talking.

[Speaker 4] (2:02:30 - 2:02:32)
in to go to a desk to rent a room,

[Speaker 4] (2:02:32 - 2:02:34)
but you couldn't just walk in and hang out.

[Speaker 6] (2:02:34 - 2:02:35)
Right. No,

[Speaker 6] (2:02:35 - 2:02:35)
no,

[Speaker 6] (2:02:35 - 2:02:36)
but,

[Speaker 6] (2:02:36 - 2:02:40)
but at the same time, that is, that there is a significant difference there.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:41 - 2:02:41)
But

[Speaker 4] (2:02:41 - 2:02:41)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:41 - 2:02:46)
I think that that is now someone's used to

[Speaker 1] (2:02:46 - 2:02:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:46 - 2:02:49)
the Concordia there and most people don't remember

[Speaker 1] (2:02:49 - 2:02:49)
They don't.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:49 - 2:02:52)
the way that the street felt.

[Speaker 2] (2:02:53 - 2:03:00)
But I guess the other piece is when we look at this corridor,

[Speaker 2] (2:03:00 - 2:03:04)
one of the things that I always, when I'm thinking of Humphrey Street,

[Speaker 2] (2:03:04 - 2:03:09)
and this of course gets into another whole conversation around the redevelopment.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:09 - 2:03:11)
development of the Hawthorne site.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:11 - 2:03:11)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:11 - 2:03:15)
But one of the problems that we have is we have a

[Speaker 6] (2:03:15 - 2:03:37)
convex curve that holds our retail, which means there is never a sightline so you don't have a consistent concept of space, and one of the few places that you could have a double-sided corridor of publicly activated commercial space is that zone that's up toward,

[Speaker 6] (2:03:37 - 2:03:40)
well, that is the Hawthorne site.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:41 - 2:03:55)
So thinking about how how something how do we talk about buildings that aren't built yet needing this plus maintaining our commercial core.

[Speaker 2] (2:03:56 - 2:04:01)
so that people don't perceive it as an overstep.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:01 - 2:04:03)
Right. Yeah, framing will be really important,

[Speaker 5] (2:04:03 - 2:04:15)
whichever way that we go about it, and the public outreach and engagement and the way that this is presented will need to be well thought out.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:15 - 2:04:15)
But Chris,

[Speaker 1] (2:04:15 - 2:04:22)
if you go back to your original kind of thought on the recommendation, if we don't do it by requiring it.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:22 - 2:04:31)
and it becomes more of a regulate so they apply for special permit there's no teeth to say you can't do this and

[Speaker 4] (2:04:31 - 2:04:31)
That's right.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:31 - 2:04:33)
It goes to zoning and zoning can't

[Speaker 1] (2:04:33 - 2:04:33)
they don't

[Speaker 4] (2:04:33 - 2:04:33)
do

[Speaker 1] (2:04:33 - 2:04:36)
think there's there's nothing that says you can't do a residential thing so no

[Speaker 4] (2:04:36 - 2:04:40)
That's how zoning's going to look at it. They don't look at it from the same perspective that we

[Speaker 1] (2:04:40 - 2:04:40)
it's

[Speaker 4] (2:04:40 - 2:04:41)
do.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:41 - 2:04:44)
just gonna be a late it's a legal argument I'm allowed to do this and they're gonna say sure

[Speaker 5] (2:04:45 - 2:04:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:45 - 2:04:46)
You're exactly right.

[Speaker 4] (2:04:47 - 2:04:48)
You're exactly right.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:49 - 2:04:53)
So we can, you know, I think those are really good points.

[Speaker 5] (2:04:53 - 2:05:08)
We could do a combination of the two where we require ground floor commercial use, but also I think it'll be very important to make sure there are no more conversions of existing commercial to residential. So having that.

[Speaker 5] (2:05:10 - 2:05:19)
protection in place is something that at the very least is necessary to protect any other commercial uses from being converted.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:19 - 2:05:25)
Well, and to also to prohibit there being some precedent set for whatever happens on the Hawthorne.

[Speaker 5] (2:05:25 - 2:05:25)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (2:05:25 - 2:05:26)
Yes, yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:05:27 - 2:05:32)
Would we consider the redrawing the map at all? Does that make sense?

[Speaker 4] (2:05:32 - 2:05:33)
They're drawing what map?

[Speaker 1] (2:05:33 - 2:05:34)
The B1,

[Speaker 2] (2:05:34 - 2:05:34)
The the

[Speaker 1] (2:05:34 - 2:05:34)
the...

[Speaker 2] (2:05:34 - 2:05:38)
overlay map or or yet or maybe the underlying?

[Speaker 1] (2:05:38 - 2:05:39)
It was

[Speaker 2] (2:05:39 - 2:05:39)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:05:39 - 2:05:39)
a this

[Speaker 2] (2:05:39 - 2:05:41)
know that that's like a whole other can of worms.

[Speaker 1] (2:05:41 - 2:05:46)
was kind of a big deal when it first got that I remember this kind of these these districts were

[Speaker 2] (2:05:46 - 2:05:56)
Yeah. But to make people you know because obviously you know Humphrey Street's weird too because you have these these stretches of residential and we're thinking well maybe we don't freak those people out and

[Speaker 2] (2:05:56 - 2:06:06)
And, you know, I guess it would be kind of I'm in my initial reaction was oh my goodness I haven't thought of this before and we should require that there be ground floor

[Speaker 1] (2:06:06 - 2:06:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:06 - 2:06:13)
commercial because this is such an important like you know gateway for the town and I was also thinking as we're talking about it more like

[Speaker 2] (2:06:14 - 2:06:21)
I don't know, it seems odd d if we had that be blanketed, because it wouldn't even make sense anymore for some of these strips,

[Speaker 1] (2:06:21 - 2:06:21)
Oh,

[Speaker 2] (2:06:21 - 2:06:21)
and

[Speaker 1] (2:06:21 - 2:06:22)
who were grandfathered.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:22 - 2:06:22)
uh

[Speaker 1] (2:06:22 - 2:06:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:22 - 2:06:22)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:06:22 - 2:06:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:06:23 - 2:06:37)
Right, and it wouldn't necessarily be redrawing anything. We could select certain areas within the Humphrey Street Overlay District to be like a sub-district where we designate um ground floor commercial would be required.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:38 - 2:06:38)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (2:06:38 - 2:06:43)
Um that wouldn't change, you know, the overall boundaries of the district, it would just be creating

[Speaker 5] (2:06:43 - 2:06:47)
a sub-district within that has additional standards.

[Speaker 2] (2:06:47 - 2:06:54)
Well, is the subdistrict not really claimed by the B1, A4, A2 designations,

[Speaker 4] (2:06:54 - 2:06:54)
What

[Speaker 2] (2:06:54 - 2:06:54)
or?

[Speaker 4] (2:06:54 - 2:06:57)
do you mean the sub-district? What do you mean the underlying zoning?

[Speaker 5] (2:06:58 - 2:07:09)
Yeah, right now the way it's written is the underlying zoning designates how it goes through the Humphrey Street Overlay District permitting process.

[Speaker 5] (2:07:09 - 2:07:10)
So it would...

[Speaker 5] (2:07:10 - 2:07:14)
be overriding then some potential way.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:14 - 2:07:38)
Yeah I mean you know the underlying zoning is just it's basically was patterned on the patterns of the original patterns of development when zoning was first adopted by the town which is back in like 1952 or something so whatever was in use then is how it got zoned there was no rhyme or reason it was like the wandering cows theory you know it was in terms of laying out the zoning

[Speaker 4] (2:07:40 - 2:07:42)
That's why it's so spotty and funny,

[Speaker 4] (2:07:42 - 2:07:44)
you know, it goes B1, A1, A4,

[Speaker 4] (2:07:44 - 2:07:45)
this, you know, and

[Speaker 2] (2:07:45 - 2:07:45)
Well,

[Speaker 4] (2:07:45 - 2:07:54)
we did change some of the districts just to allow more multifamily, but obviously we're the really small ones along Puritan stayed,

[Speaker 4] (2:07:54 - 2:07:55)
so anyway.

[Speaker 2] (2:07:56 - 2:07:59)
I'm sort of confused how the Fish

[Speaker 2] (2:08:02 - 2:08:04)
House and the parking lot are A4.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:06 - 2:08:08)
The fish house is its own historic district,

[Speaker 4] (2:08:08 - 2:08:11)
so that's just not showing up the right way, but

[Speaker 5] (2:08:11 - 2:08:14)
But it is underlying A4 underneath that.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:14 - 2:08:15)
It's underlying A4,

[Speaker 6] (2:08:15 - 2:08:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:15 - 2:08:15)
but that's

[Speaker 2] (2:08:15 - 2:08:15)
yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:15 - 2:08:20)
just because who knows, you know, because there used to be little fishing shacks along there,

[Speaker 4] (2:08:20 - 2:08:20)
you

[Speaker 2] (2:08:20 - 2:08:21)
But not

[Speaker 4] (2:08:21 - 2:08:21)
know, the

[Speaker 2] (2:08:21 - 2:08:21)
in the fish 50s

[Speaker 4] (2:08:21 - 2:08:21)
house was,

[Speaker 2] (2:08:21 - 2:08:22)
there were.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:22 - 2:08:26)
but the fish house was built pretty early on, so I don't know why it was A4,

[Speaker 2] (2:08:26 - 2:08:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:26 - 2:08:27)
to be honest with

[Speaker 5] (2:08:27 - 2:08:27)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:27 - 2:08:27)
you.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:27 - 2:08:32)
And then the A2, I'm curious about on the edge of Greenwood.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:35 - 2:08:36)
Yeah, what's the small

[Speaker 1] (2:08:36 - 2:08:36)
Is that

[Speaker 2] (2:08:36 - 2:08:36)
one?

[Speaker 1] (2:08:36 - 2:08:39)
the yacht club, the the um

[Speaker 2] (2:08:39 - 2:08:39)
No, it's

[Speaker 5] (2:08:39 - 2:08:48)
So I believe the A2 kind of travels up. Um I can pull up the act, you know, the full zoning. But I believe

[Speaker 5] (2:08:49 - 2:08:51)
A2 kind of travels in

[Speaker 2] (2:08:51 - 2:08:51)
So

[Speaker 5] (2:08:51 - 2:08:51)
here.

[Speaker 2] (2:08:51 - 2:08:59)
like when I look at this, we've got B_ one, there is mixed use in A_ four. Um

[Speaker 2] (2:09:07 - 2:09:07)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:07 - 2:09:08)
is also a many four.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:11 - 2:09:11)
Um

[Speaker 3] (2:09:17 - 2:09:26)
Yeah, the dental office was a home before and it had a dental practice on the ground floor which was allowed at the time, you know, hang a shingle outside your home.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:26 - 2:09:30)
That whole stretch of Humphrey Street down there was all residential.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:31 - 2:09:35)
And the only commercial space was one of the actual,

[Speaker 3] (2:09:35 - 2:09:39)
one of the commercial spaces was the original Captain Jack's building.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:40 - 2:09:42)
There was an inn, so it was zoned commercial.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:42 - 2:09:45)
And then when Captain Jacks bought the other two properties,

[Speaker 3] (2:09:45 - 2:09:47)
they were A1 or whatever they were.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:47 - 2:09:48)
Mm

[Speaker 3] (2:09:48 - 2:09:48)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:09:48 - 2:09:48)
-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:48 - 2:09:49)
the former owner,

[Speaker 3] (2:09:50 - 2:09:56)
the former owner combined those three lots and he created an enormous commercial lot.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:57 - 2:10:01)
It was one lot when he solicited the developer,

[Speaker 3] (2:10:01 - 2:10:03)
which is exactly what happened.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:03 - 2:10:07)
He solicited the developer to buy it and build condos there.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:07 - 2:10:15)
And he had already combined the lots and, you know, what can I tell you, that's how that whole thing went down.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:15 - 2:10:16)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:17 - 2:10:21)
So I guess when I look at this, if we're talking about the

[Speaker 1] (2:10:23 - 2:10:24)
overlay district,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:25 - 2:10:26)
we

[Speaker 1] (2:10:27 - 2:10:31)
could talk in existing use and new construction.

[Speaker 4] (2:10:32 - 2:10:35)
That's what I think we have. I was thinking about that too. So like if there's a residential

[Speaker 3] (2:10:35 - 2:10:36)
Yeah, that's

[Speaker 4] (2:10:36 - 2:10:46)
property there, yes, they can keep it residential, but if it were ever raised and we required business on the ground floor, they'd have to comply.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:46 - 2:10:46)
right.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:46 - 2:10:53)
You would have to convert back to the B1 and in the B1 we'd have to require that there was residential on the ground floor.

[Speaker 4] (2:10:53 - 2:10:53)
Correct.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:54 - 2:10:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:10:54 - 2:10:55)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:55 - 2:10:58)
But I'm thinking with the condos

[Speaker 3] (2:10:58 - 2:10:58)
Commercial property,

[Speaker 1] (2:10:58 - 2:11:01)
that are in sorry. the B1 section across from...

[Speaker 1] (2:11:03 - 2:11:04)
There, they would be,

[Speaker 3] (2:11:04 - 2:11:04)
Did it be?

[Speaker 1] (2:11:04 - 2:11:06)
they would be fine as is,

[Speaker 4] (2:11:06 - 2:11:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:06 - 2:11:09)
but if they were ever to replace those condos,

[Speaker 4] (2:11:09 - 2:11:10)
That's what I was thinking.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:10 - 2:11:17)
when it would be introduced as, as that, and then I think there would be a reasonable argument for a special permit.

[Speaker 4] (2:11:18 - 2:11:18)
Yeah, but

[Speaker 1] (2:11:18 - 2:11:19)
Well,

[Speaker 3] (2:11:19 - 2:11:19)
So

[Speaker 1] (2:11:19 - 2:11:19)
you

[Speaker 4] (2:11:19 - 2:11:19)
but yeah

[Speaker 3] (2:11:19 - 2:11:28)
half of that lot is just condos, but the other half, and it almost goes right down the middle,

[Speaker 3] (2:11:28 - 2:11:35)
is that little strip mall with the 7-Eleven, whatever it is, and then next to it is the A1 Motors.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:36 - 2:11:41)
So only half of that has those three condo buildings.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:41 - 2:11:42)
didn't mean lot,

[Speaker 1] (2:11:42 - 2:11:44)
you meant that B1 zoning right through

[Speaker 3] (2:11:44 - 2:11:44)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:11:44 - 2:11:45)
there.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:45 - 2:11:46)
the B1 right across from

[Speaker 1] (2:11:46 - 2:11:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:46 - 2:11:46)
the fish house.

[Speaker 1] (2:11:47 - 2:11:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:11:48 - 2:11:55)
And then if the current properties are residential and they're conveyed to somebody else and they're not demoed, they stay residential.

[Speaker 4] (2:11:56 - 2:11:57)
They don't

[Speaker 3] (2:11:57 - 2:11:57)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (2:11:57 - 2:11:57)
have.

[Speaker 3] (2:11:57 - 2:12:10)
the whole property was, I think the whole property was a commercial property because the surf theater was there and then there were little restaurants right along the street where the antique shop and the hair place and Nordhaven is now.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:10 - 2:12:12)
There's a realtor there too.

[Speaker 3] (2:12:13 - 2:12:24)
along the street then there's the four condo buildings stuck in there and then you've got the little hen and that whole strip mall and you've got the a1 motors next to it

[Speaker 1] (2:12:26 - 2:12:30)
So is that the direction that we should try to explore where

[Speaker 5] (2:12:30 - 2:12:31)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:12:31 - 2:12:31)
construction

[Speaker 5] (2:12:31 - 2:12:32)
yeah, absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:32 - 2:12:39)
requires a ground floor commercial and I guess the existing uses.

[Speaker 6] (2:12:40 - 2:12:41)
You know, if

[Speaker 1] (2:12:41 - 2:12:41)
Okay,

[Speaker 6] (2:12:41 - 2:12:41)
it's selling

[Speaker 1] (2:12:41 - 2:12:41)
but

[Speaker 6] (2:12:41 - 2:12:44)
nothing happens, but if you raised it then

[Speaker 1] (2:12:45 - 2:12:52)
The w the one thing that I would say on that is it all makes sense except in this district is Blaney Street.

[Speaker 1] (2:12:54 - 2:12:55)
And that could be sort of a

[Speaker 6] (2:12:55 - 2:12:55)
The

[Speaker 1] (2:12:55 - 2:12:59)
that would be sort of a crazy situation that you needed to be more careful.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:00 - 2:13:01)
Blaney Streets A4.

[Speaker 1] (2:13:02 - 2:13:02)
No,

[Speaker 6] (2:13:02 - 2:13:02)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:13:02 - 2:13:05)
but it's in the overlay district.

[Speaker 7] (2:13:06 - 2:13:06)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (2:13:06 - 2:13:10)
There's going to be like car dealerships on, there's like a mechanic shop

[Speaker 3] (2:13:10 - 2:13:11)
Yeah, you

[Speaker 6] (2:13:11 - 2:13:12)
on Blaney Street.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:12 - 2:13:13)
know, we can talk about.

[Speaker 8] (2:13:14 - 2:13:14)
We

[Speaker 3] (2:13:14 - 2:13:15)
We

[Speaker 8] (2:13:15 - 2:13:15)
could.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:15 - 2:13:19)
can talk about that line Humphrey Street.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:19 - 2:13:23)
I mean, we can say that are directly adjacent to the Humphrey Street corridor.

[Speaker 8] (2:13:23 - 2:13:24)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:13:24 - 2:13:26)
We can make that distinction if we want

[Speaker 8] (2:13:26 - 2:13:26)
it

[Speaker 3] (2:13:26 - 2:13:26)
to.

[Speaker 8] (2:13:26 - 2:13:34)
could be a provision that says four properties directly adjacent to Humphrey Street, you know, this applies.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:35 - 2:13:36)
I think that makes sense.

[Speaker 6] (2:13:36 - 2:13:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:13:37 - 2:13:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:13:39 - 2:13:39)
You know,

[Speaker 3] (2:13:39 - 2:13:39)
Really

[Speaker 8] (2:13:39 - 2:13:40)
new construction

[Speaker 3] (2:13:40 - 2:13:40)
do.

[Speaker 8] (2:13:40 - 2:13:43)
would require ground floor commercial.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:43 - 2:13:56)
The trouble is that we are constantly being like the second something comes up and it's available for change. We're constantly being pushed. We're being, you know, with even the Hawthorne property now, there's just.

[Speaker 3] (2:13:58 - 2:14:00)
Because of pressure that we're facing,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:00 - 2:14:02)
you know, we're in a very different spot as

[Speaker 8] (2:14:02 - 2:14:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:02 - 2:14:06)
a town financially than we were when we bought that property.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:06 - 2:14:11)
So there was there are a lot of different considerations to talk about.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:11 - 2:14:14)
You know, I served on that committee,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:15 - 2:14:17)
that Hawthorne committee,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:17 - 2:14:19)
and I can tell you that.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:20 - 2:14:27)
There are, you know, there's a whole school of thought that thinks there should be some residential development on there,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:27 - 2:14:32)
and I'm not going to, I don't think it's right that I comment one way or the other

[Speaker 6] (2:14:32 - 2:14:32)
That

[Speaker 3] (2:14:32 - 2:14:33)
on

[Speaker 6] (2:14:33 - 2:14:33)
there could

[Speaker 3] (2:14:33 - 2:14:33)
that right

[Speaker 6] (2:14:33 - 2:14:33)
be,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:33 - 2:14:33)
now.

[Speaker 6] (2:14:33 - 2:14:35)
right, Angela, as long as they put some

[Speaker 1] (2:14:35 - 2:14:43)
But if it was retail on the ground floor. Yeah, if it was truly mixed use where the upstairs was residential and the downstairs was commercial,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:43 - 2:14:43)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:14:43 - 2:14:44)
I

[Speaker 3] (2:14:44 - 2:14:44)
And

[Speaker 1] (2:14:44 - 2:14:46)
think it's in the spirit of the district.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:46 - 2:14:47)
Right. And I agree.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:48 - 2:14:51)
I think that what was concerning,

[Speaker 3] (2:14:51 - 2:14:54)
well, to me, and there's no reason not to that.

[Speaker 3] (2:14:54 - 2:15:21)
is that there is a sense when the town meeting voted to buy the property that this was something that you know at least a portion of it was the town's like this belonged to the town it was going to be some public space there was going to be commercial but it'd be sort of you know there would be some it might be a little commercial I shouldn't say you know what it should be but there there might be a little commercial along the street to knit together the fabric of Humphrey Street down that end

[Speaker 3] (2:15:20 - 2:15:21)
in perhaps

[Speaker 3] (2:15:22 - 2:15:34)
But, you know, it was very, there's a very strong sentiment in all the research that we did that showed that people feel strongly that there needs to be this ownership sense. So my

[Speaker 8] (2:15:34 - 2:15:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:35 - 2:15:39)
point is that there was this feeling that if there was residential,

[Speaker 3] (2:15:39 - 2:15:50)
there would, it would create conflict with my space, my private, you know, yard, my private driveway, my private, you know, little yard, little piece of green versus.

[Speaker 3] (2:15:51 - 2:16:03)
what is open space for the town so these just those are things that can of course be you know designed correctly that could be dealt with in certain ways those were just the sentiments that came up

[Speaker 1] (2:16:03 - 2:16:03)
But

[Speaker 3] (2:16:03 - 2:16:03)
during

[Speaker 1] (2:16:03 - 2:16:04)
I think that that's,

[Speaker 3] (2:16:04 - 2:16:04)
the conversation

[Speaker 1] (2:16:04 - 2:16:19)
that definitely sits within how something is planned and designed because there's a lot of very vibrant public spaces that on the second stories and third stories there's private

[Speaker 1] (2:16:19 - 2:16:20)
homes there's you

[Speaker 6] (2:16:20 - 2:16:20)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:16:20 - 2:16:40)
know apartments condominiums and you know I if you wander around Newbury Port or Portsmouth or a lot of these environments that have coastal fronts that existence happens and you just don't even notice the residential aspect of

[Speaker 4] (2:16:40 - 2:16:40)
No,

[Speaker 1] (2:16:40 - 2:16:40)
it

[Speaker 4] (2:16:40 - 2:16:43)
I think the difference here is we become landlords again,

[Speaker 4] (2:16:43 - 2:16:44)
which is

[Speaker 4] (2:16:44 - 2:16:57)
like what's been happening you know more and more is like we're landlords to a pot shop and we're landlords you know so that's where I think that's where the public the public gets a little you know the hackles are up for that

[Speaker 1] (2:16:57 - 2:16:58)
But I think at the same time,

[Speaker 3] (2:16:58 - 2:17:01)
there's that whole notion of do we sell off part of it and then you

[Speaker 4] (2:17:01 - 2:17:01)
yeah

[Speaker 3] (2:17:01 - 2:17:02)
know that really make

[Speaker 4] (2:17:02 - 2:17:02)
gets

[Speaker 3] (2:17:02 - 2:17:10)
people crazy because we went through a lot to buy it but yeah so Karen remind me why you weren't on that committee I just don't remember

[Speaker 3] (2:17:11 - 2:17:11)
Just

[Speaker 1] (2:17:11 - 2:17:12)
You don't

[Speaker 3] (2:17:12 - 2:17:12)
kidding.

[Speaker 1] (2:17:12 - 2:17:15)
don't you remember why I wasn't on that committee

[Speaker 3] (2:17:15 - 2:17:18)
Yes, I remember very well making a wise crack.

[Speaker 4] (2:17:19 - 2:17:22)
We have time though, right? Because we're not getting this in front of town meeting next week.

[Speaker 3] (2:17:22 - 2:17:23)
Yes, that's right.

[Speaker 8] (2:17:23 - 2:17:23)
No,

[Speaker 3] (2:17:23 - 2:17:24)
Exactly.

[Speaker 8] (2:17:24 - 2:17:32)
but we don't have as much time as we think because I'll start by doing some work based off of the comments from tonight's meeting.

[Speaker 8] (2:17:34 - 2:17:42)
To get a general idea of potentially something that based off this conversation that the board might be interested in looking at.

[Speaker 8] (2:17:43 - 2:17:50)
I do think that the conversation around the Hawthorne property is really important.

[Speaker 8] (2:17:50 - 2:17:54)
I too was present for a lot of those meetings and I think that there is

[Speaker 1] (2:17:54 - 2:17:54)
Yeah

[Speaker 8] (2:17:54 - 2:18:02)
a lot of passion from the community on how that property is going to be used.

[Speaker 8] (2:18:02 - 2:18:06)
whether it's, you know, no commercial at all, just a park,

[Speaker 8] (2:18:07 - 2:18:14)
mixed uses, whatever it is, I think if that property is going to be included in what we propose,

[Speaker 8] (2:18:15 - 2:18:25)
we have to be very, very intentional about how we state that to the community who just went through this process to come up with a recommendation for that property.

[Speaker 8] (2:18:25 - 2:18:29)
I want to make sure that it doesn't feel or seem like

[Speaker 8] (2:18:30 - 2:18:36)
They went through that process, but we're just going to recommend this, um that it kind of feels like whatever this is

[Speaker 8] (2:18:37 - 2:18:46)
feels as though it's at least come out of that recommendation um and aligns with that whole process that um the community just went through.

[Speaker 1] (2:18:46 - 2:18:54)
Where are we in the timeline to actually do a community update from

[Speaker 1] (2:18:58 - 2:19:04)
Because would this be an intelligent time to talk about the fact that we're looking at the Humphrey's

[Speaker 2] (2:19:04 - 2:19:04)
at

[Speaker 1] (2:19:04 - 2:19:04)
Street corridor,

[Speaker 2] (2:19:04 - 2:19:04)
the stage.

[Speaker 2] (2:19:04 - 2:19:04)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:04 - 2:19:06)
set the stage,

[Speaker 1] (2:19:06 - 2:19:11)
comment on the fact that we're excited about the vibrancy of Humphrey Street,

[Speaker 1] (2:19:11 - 2:19:16)
because I think anyone that's lived here any time realizes it's vibrant right now.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:17 - 2:19:17)
You know,

[Speaker 1] (2:19:17 - 2:19:21)
I'm always amazed when I'm bringing my kid and driving home,

[Speaker 1] (2:19:21 - 2:19:21)
I'm

[Speaker 2] (2:19:21 - 2:19:21)
A

[Speaker 1] (2:19:21 - 2:19:21)
like,

[Speaker 2] (2:19:21 - 2:19:22)
lot of people.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:22 - 2:19:24)
look at this, there's a lot of people.

[Speaker 3] (2:19:24 - 2:19:24)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:25 - 2:19:38)
you know and talking about how to keep this moving forward in a very general way to sort of set the stage for maybe in the could we have something for the fall town meeting yeah

[Speaker 4] (2:19:38 - 2:19:39)
Potentially.

[Speaker 3] (2:19:39 - 2:19:39)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:19:39 - 2:19:40)
yeah

[Speaker 3] (2:19:40 - 2:19:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:19:40 - 2:19:44)
Well, it sounds like we need to, it sounds like there are people who are starting to.

[Speaker 5] (2:19:45 - 2:19:47)
Think about doing residential on the ground floor

[Speaker 6] (2:19:47 - 2:19:47)
I,

[Speaker 5] (2:19:47 - 2:19:47)
so we better,

[Speaker 6] (2:19:47 - 2:19:48)
I,

[Speaker 7] (2:19:48 - 2:19:48)
There

[Speaker 5] (2:19:48 - 2:19:50)
there's some urgency on that front,

[Speaker 6] (2:19:50 - 2:19:59)
I think at the very least we should have something for special permit for conversion of, you know, conversion

[Speaker 5] (2:19:59 - 2:19:59)
just discuss.

[Speaker 6] (2:19:59 - 2:20:02)
of commercial to residential,

[Speaker 6] (2:20:02 - 2:20:06)
at the very least that should be going in the fall.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:06 - 2:20:06)
Yeah,

[Speaker 6] (2:20:06 - 2:20:10)
You know, if it takes some more time to do some visioning and exactly what we want.

[Speaker 6] (2:20:11 - 2:20:16)
And that's okay, but I think at the very least to protect, you know, the existing uses,

[Speaker 6] (2:20:16 - 2:20:19)
I think that we should absolutely have.

[Speaker 6] (2:20:19 - 2:20:23)
at the very least that going to the December town meeting.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:23 - 2:20:25)
And I would state my desire that we're, and

[Speaker 6] (2:20:25 - 2:20:26)
Yeah, and we can we

[Speaker 1] (2:20:26 - 2:20:26)
we have

[Speaker 6] (2:20:26 - 2:20:26)
can

[Speaker 1] (2:20:26 - 2:20:26)
something

[Speaker 6] (2:20:26 - 2:20:27)
yep

[Speaker 1] (2:20:27 - 2:20:27)
concrete,

[Speaker 1] (2:20:28 - 2:20:33)
but I don't know if it's too late to get a statement in front of town meeting.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:33 - 2:20:35)
The other thing that I've heard said

[Speaker 8] (2:20:35 - 2:20:35)
Excuse

[Speaker 1] (2:20:35 - 2:20:35)
that I,

[Speaker 8] (2:20:35 - 2:20:38)
me about what, about what, your statement about what?

[Speaker 1] (2:20:38 - 2:20:48)
actually just a planning board sort of update celebrating what's happening over in Vinland Square, but one of the things that I had someone say to me the other day and I thought they were right.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:48 - 2:20:48)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:49 - 2:20:58)
That a handout might be appreciated much more than a 15 minute or five minute presentation.

[Speaker 1] (2:20:59 - 2:21:00)
I

[Speaker 8] (2:21:00 - 2:21:07)
Well, that's possible, but we also understand that a lot of people watch town meeting on TV and won't be getting a handout.

[Speaker 8] (2:21:07 - 2:21:09)
So having a little,

[Speaker 8] (2:21:09 - 2:21:09)
you know,

[Speaker 8] (2:21:09 - 2:21:14)
Article 2 has traditionally been before the town of committees,

[Speaker 5] (2:21:14 - 2:21:15)
Yeah, and committee we update.

[Speaker 8] (2:21:15 - 2:21:16)
used to do it

[Speaker 5] (2:21:16 - 2:21:16)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (2:21:16 - 2:21:17)
all the time.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:17 - 2:21:18)
we

[Speaker 8] (2:21:18 - 2:21:18)
And

[Speaker 5] (2:21:18 - 2:21:18)
did.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:18 - 2:21:18)
I

[Speaker 8] (2:21:18 - 2:21:18)
we

[Speaker 1] (2:21:18 - 2:21:19)
know but it's yep

[Speaker 8] (2:21:19 - 2:21:24)
just got rid of it and everyone was freaked out about getting out of there the same night we get in.

[Speaker 1] (2:21:24 - 2:21:25)
There's basketball

[Speaker 6] (2:21:26 - 2:21:27)
Right. So I actually,

[Speaker 6] (2:21:27 - 2:21:34)
I had this conversation with Margie this morning because I was asking, should I be preparing something for town meeting?

[Speaker 6] (2:21:35 - 2:21:49)
And the conversation that we had was sometimes planning board members who are town meeting members like to go up and give an explanation of what's going on or an update.

[Speaker 6] (2:21:49 - 2:21:52)
So that's something certainly that...

[Speaker 9] (2:21:52 - 2:21:54)
Are all of us 10 meeting members?

[Speaker 1] (2:21:54 - 2:21:54)
I'm not.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:54 - 2:21:55)
I am not.

[Speaker 5] (2:21:57 - 2:21:57)
I'm not

[Speaker 8] (2:21:57 - 2:21:57)
Well, the

[Speaker 5] (2:21:57 - 2:21:57)
a

[Speaker 8] (2:21:57 - 2:21:57)
other thing

[Speaker 5] (2:21:57 - 2:21:58)
specific

[Speaker 8] (2:21:58 - 2:21:58)
is to go,

[Speaker 5] (2:21:58 - 2:21:58)
reason,

[Speaker 8] (2:21:58 - 2:21:59)
no,

[Speaker 5] (2:21:59 - 2:22:01)
but the tides are changing,

[Speaker 6] (2:22:01 - 2:22:01)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:22:01 - 2:22:02)
I can go back.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:03 - 2:22:07)
No, but it is a case that I think that that Angela,

[Speaker 1] (2:22:07 - 2:22:08)
you and I can discuss,

[Speaker 1] (2:22:08 - 2:22:20)
but we could definitely come up with some notes and just incredibly brief celebrate the celebrate what's happening in Vinland Square that's visible that people are seeing it.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:22 - 2:22:27)
I don't think right now we want to talk about Glover because there's really I nothing to

[Speaker 8] (2:22:27 - 2:22:27)
don't want to

[Speaker 1] (2:22:27 - 2:22:27)
talk

[Speaker 8] (2:22:27 - 2:22:28)
talk about

[Speaker 1] (2:22:28 - 2:22:28)
about,

[Speaker 8] (2:22:28 - 2:22:28)
Glover.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:28 - 2:22:35)
but then talk about sort of the vibrancy on that and that we're looking at, you know, strengthening,

[Speaker 1] (2:22:35 - 2:22:43)
you know, setting up, making sure that our policies are aligned with that continuing to grow and be as strong.

[Speaker 1] (2:22:45 - 2:22:47)
cultural center for the for the town yeah

[Speaker 9] (2:22:47 - 2:22:48)
Thank

[Speaker 5] (2:22:48 - 2:22:48)
Yes.

[Speaker 9] (2:22:48 - 2:22:48)
you.

[Speaker 8] (2:22:48 - 2:22:50)
We also have a new master plan

[Speaker 9] (2:22:50 - 2:22:50)
Without

[Speaker 8] (2:22:50 - 2:22:50)
that

[Speaker 9] (2:22:50 - 2:22:50)
even getting,

[Speaker 8] (2:22:50 - 2:22:51)
needs

[Speaker 9] (2:22:51 - 2:22:51)
like,

[Speaker 8] (2:22:51 - 2:22:51)
to be.

[Speaker 9] (2:22:51 - 2:22:52)
too much into this because,

[Speaker 5] (2:22:52 - 2:22:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:22:52 - 2:22:53)
you know,

[Speaker 9] (2:22:53 - 2:22:57)
even amongst just this small group,

[Speaker 9] (2:22:57 - 2:23:01)
obviously it's like a big conversation and before we put anything like...

[Speaker 6] (2:23:01 - 2:23:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:23:02 - 2:23:02)
Nothing

[Speaker 1] (2:23:02 - 2:23:02)
Should

[Speaker 9] (2:23:02 - 2:23:02)
concrete,

[Speaker 1] (2:23:02 - 2:23:03)
be yeah,

[Speaker 5] (2:23:03 - 2:23:03)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:23:03 - 2:23:04)
nothing yeah, just like

[Speaker 9] (2:23:04 - 2:23:05)
but just

[Speaker 6] (2:23:05 - 2:23:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:23:05 - 2:23:05)
just addressing

[Speaker 5] (2:23:05 - 2:23:06)
just looking,

[Speaker 9] (2:23:06 - 2:23:06)
just

[Speaker 1] (2:23:06 - 2:23:07)
Just looking at them.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:07 - 2:23:11)
we're just looking at the overlay district and what's required and

[Speaker 9] (2:23:11 - 2:23:11)
yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (2:23:11 - 2:23:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:23:12 - 2:23:15)
And making sure that we're preserving the cultural community

[Speaker 1] (2:23:15 - 2:23:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:23:15 - 2:23:17)
that's growing there and

[Speaker 1] (2:23:17 - 2:23:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:23:17 - 2:23:18)
that we're seeing the

[Speaker 5] (2:23:18 - 2:23:18)
That

[Speaker 9] (2:23:18 - 2:23:19)
vibrancy

[Speaker 5] (2:23:19 - 2:23:19)
was the intent

[Speaker 9] (2:23:19 - 2:23:19)
of value.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:19 - 2:23:20)
of the overlay anyway,

[Speaker 9] (2:23:20 - 2:23:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:23:20 - 2:23:21)
yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:23:22 - 2:23:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:22 - 2:23:42)
So the other thing we may want to think about just mentioning we could do it with some short bullet points is the fact that I mean assuming we get, I don't know if we're going to be able to speak to Select Board before town meeting is the master plan update because it hasn't gone before them for adopting. I think we can adopt it.

[Speaker 6] (2:23:42 - 2:23:45)
June 17th is the joint meeting,

[Speaker 6] (2:23:46 - 2:23:47)
planning board, select board.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:47 - 2:23:48)
That's okay.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:49 - 2:23:50)
We should we can mention that we're

[Speaker 1] (2:23:50 - 2:23:51)
We

[Speaker 8] (2:23:51 - 2:23:51)
going to have a joint

[Speaker 1] (2:23:51 - 2:23:51)
can mention

[Speaker 8] (2:23:51 - 2:23:51)
meeting on

[Speaker 1] (2:23:51 - 2:23:52)
that we're

[Speaker 8] (2:23:52 - 2:23:52)
that date

[Speaker 1] (2:23:52 - 2:23:53)
having a joint meeting,

[Speaker 1] (2:23:53 - 2:23:53)
yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:23:53 - 2:24:07)
And that we can also say that the you know, the draft has been online and I think the the comment period is closed however The draft version is online and I think we could ask Carlos either the gentleman at the

[Speaker 8] (2:24:08 - 2:24:32)
MAPC to give us just you know give me just like you know the these you know cheat notes of just give me a few bullet points of some good highlights of what we have changed or what are the big highlights or you know what's been updated and there are some new sections all together that if we're treated very differently as they should be so anyway I'm just wondering what you think about that

[Speaker 6] (2:24:33 - 2:24:37)
I can reach out to Carlos for a few bullet point highlights.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:39 - 2:24:39)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:24:39 - 2:24:39)
And that's,

[Speaker 8] (2:24:39 - 2:24:39)
think it's

[Speaker 1] (2:24:39 - 2:24:40)
yeah,

[Speaker 8] (2:24:40 - 2:24:40)
a good idea.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:40 - 2:24:41)
I mean,

[Speaker 8] (2:24:41 - 2:24:41)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:24:41 - 2:24:44)
but that's separate from the planning board,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:44 - 2:24:46)
but that's definitely planning office.

[Speaker 6] (2:24:46 - 2:24:50)
The planning board adopts, you know, votes to adopt the master plan.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:51 - 2:24:52)
Yeah, but the planning board,

[Speaker 8] (2:24:52 - 2:24:55)
the master plan pretty much lives with the planning board,

[Speaker 1] (2:24:55 - 2:24:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:55 - 2:24:56)
believe it or not.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:57 - 2:24:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:24:59 - 2:25:02)
We did a new housing production plan under that as well.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:05 - 2:25:12)
So if planning board members wish to speak and give an update at town meeting you are welcome to do so I can

[Speaker 6] (2:25:13 - 2:25:17)
Help if you want me to create any graphics or anything like that,

[Speaker 1] (2:25:17 - 2:25:17)
That would

[Speaker 6] (2:25:17 - 2:25:17)
please

[Speaker 1] (2:25:17 - 2:25:17)
be awesome.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:17 - 2:25:25)
let me know anything similar to something like this or something like this Just let me know and I can help

[Speaker 1] (2:25:26 - 2:25:26)
So

[Speaker 8] (2:25:26 - 2:25:26)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (2:25:26 - 2:25:29)
I'm not scared. I'm not scheduled to give a presentation,

[Speaker 6] (2:25:29 - 2:25:30)
but I can help

[Speaker 1] (2:25:30 - 2:25:32)
Town meeting is next week?

[Speaker 6] (2:25:32 - 2:25:32)
Yes

[Speaker 8] (2:25:32 - 2:25:34)
It's next Monday and Tuesday.

[Speaker 8] (2:25:34 - 2:25:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:25:35 - 2:25:38)
Okay, I would be happy to meet with you on.

[Speaker 9] (2:25:39 - 2:25:42)
Thursday morning if you had time I believe I

[Speaker 8] (2:25:42 - 2:25:45)
The 14th? I have a little time.

[Speaker 8] (2:25:45 - 2:25:49)
I have to put on a luncheon for my mother on Friday.

[Speaker 9] (2:25:49 - 2:25:49)
I'm

[Speaker 8] (2:25:49 - 2:25:49)
Oh God,

[Speaker 9] (2:25:49 - 2:25:49)
getting a

[Speaker 8] (2:25:49 - 2:25:50)
help

[Speaker 9] (2:25:50 - 2:25:51)
new me. arm I

[Speaker 8] (2:25:55 - 2:25:56)
Okay,

[Speaker 8] (2:25:56 - 2:25:58)
I'll bring my walker and you can come here.

[Speaker 9] (2:25:58 - 2:25:59)
know

[Speaker 8] (2:25:59 - 2:26:00)
Half an hour.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:00 - 2:26:01)
All right.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:01 - 2:26:01)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (2:26:01 - 2:26:04)
let me just take a look at that. So that's fine.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:04 - 2:26:05)
We can talk about that offline.

[Speaker 6] (2:26:05 - 2:26:06)
I can do Thursday morning.

[Speaker 8] (2:26:08 - 2:26:08)
Okay,

[Speaker 6] (2:26:08 - 2:26:09)
if you would like um

[Speaker 8] (2:26:09 - 2:26:12)
that's that I get maybe what time can you do Krista?

[Speaker 6] (2:26:13 - 2:26:17)
any time in the morning so before noon

[Speaker 8] (2:26:18 - 2:26:20)
Sure, can you go like nine?

[Speaker 1] (2:26:20 - 2:26:22)
I'm trying to find the calendar.

[Speaker 1] (2:26:23 - 2:26:26)
Oh, except I just hit the map with my clumsy thumb.

[Speaker 5] (2:26:26 - 2:26:30)
Well if the two of you get up at town meeting with your walker and your your arm cast

[Speaker 9] (2:26:30 - 2:26:30)
I

[Speaker 5] (2:26:30 - 2:26:30)
I

[Speaker 8] (2:26:30 - 2:26:31)
Like

[Speaker 9] (2:26:31 - 2:26:31)
know!

[Speaker 5] (2:26:31 - 2:26:32)
might get some sympathy votes here

[Speaker 8] (2:26:34 - 2:26:39)
kind of walk it by then I'm going to be very upset if this thing isn't like resolved so

[Speaker 1] (2:26:39 - 2:26:41)
So are we if you want to say nine

[Speaker 6] (2:26:42 - 2:26:42)
yeah

[Speaker 8] (2:26:42 - 2:26:44)
sure if that works for you

[Speaker 1] (2:26:44 - 2:26:44)
Okay, let's

[Speaker 6] (2:26:44 - 2:26:45)
I will

[Speaker 1] (2:26:45 - 2:26:51)
say nine I unfortunately forgot I just put sick day on here and didn't put the actual appointment,

[Speaker 1] (2:26:51 - 2:26:52)
but I think it's at one o'clock

[Speaker 6] (2:26:53 - 2:26:53)
okay

[Speaker 1] (2:26:53 - 2:26:55)
If I find out differently, I'll reach

[Speaker 6] (2:26:55 - 2:26:55)
we

[Speaker 1] (2:26:55 - 2:26:55)
out for

[Speaker 6] (2:26:55 - 2:26:59)
can schedule it for earlier I know that this conversation has

[Speaker 6] (2:27:00 - 2:27:03)
lasted a while and kind

[Speaker 8] (2:27:03 - 2:27:04)
Had a good conversation though.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:04 - 2:27:07)
of evolved into another conversation about tone meeting.

[Speaker 6] (2:27:08 - 2:27:12)
Did the board want to vote on electing new officer positions tonight?

[Speaker 1] (2:27:14 - 2:27:17)
I thought we determined not to because we're not all present,

[Speaker 1] (2:27:17 - 2:27:20)
but I don't know if that is,

[Speaker 1] (2:27:20 - 2:27:23)
my sense if anyone is.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:28 - 2:27:31)
Is that important to have us all here or...

[Speaker 9] (2:27:31 - 2:27:33)
I don't think Bill was...

[Speaker 8] (2:27:34 - 2:27:34)
I think we

[Speaker 1] (2:27:34 - 2:27:34)
I

[Speaker 8] (2:27:34 - 2:27:34)
all

[Speaker 1] (2:27:34 - 2:27:38)
know that Bill stated he was not interested in a leadership role.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:41 - 2:27:43)
I know that I am not interested in a leadership role.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:43 - 2:27:45)
I bet you and your first meeting

[Speaker 5] (2:27:45 - 2:27:45)
I

[Speaker 1] (2:27:45 - 2:27:45)
are really

[Speaker 5] (2:27:45 - 2:27:46)
don't think I could be.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:46 - 2:27:47)
wanting to take over.

[Speaker 5] (2:27:47 - 2:27:49)
I could be secretary if it's about it.

[Speaker 8] (2:27:50 - 2:27:54)
Joe, you can talk about our discussion if you want

[Speaker 1] (2:27:54 - 2:27:54)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (2:27:54 - 2:27:54)
to.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:54 - 2:27:54)
sure.

[Speaker 1] (2:27:54 - 2:27:55)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:27:55 - 2:28:01)
Angela and I spoke and I mean, you know, following up on our discussion of the last meeting,

[Speaker 1] (2:28:02 - 2:28:07)
I would be willing to take on the chair position and our understanding was

[Speaker 9] (2:28:07 - 2:28:32)
was basically that like you know informally it would sort of be like a little bit of a co-chair situation I'm obviously going to like you know be available when I can but I'm in Boston a lot and Angela said that she'd be willing to step in for you know some of the more you know informal stuff outside of this setting and I mean I think we all work together pretty well anyways so we can make it work even I think this is a

[Speaker 1] (2:28:32 - 2:28:38)
a good example of you offering to meet on Thursday. So I'm I'm happy to do the

[Speaker 9] (2:28:38 - 2:28:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:39 - 2:28:39)
to

[Speaker 9] (2:28:39 - 2:28:41)
And I think that we've already been doing things

[Speaker 1] (2:28:41 - 2:28:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (2:28:41 - 2:28:42)
beyond the chair,

[Speaker 1] (2:28:42 - 2:28:43)
Totally.

[Speaker 9] (2:28:43 - 2:28:43)
vice chair.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:43 - 2:28:44)
Yeah. Right.

[Speaker 9] (2:28:44 - 2:28:46)
I mean, I do work remote, uh remote

[Speaker 5] (2:28:46 - 2:28:46)
I'm remote.

[Speaker 9] (2:28:46 - 2:28:46)
or hybrid.

[Speaker 5] (2:28:46 - 2:28:47)
I'm remote. I'm You're here.

[Speaker 9] (2:28:47 - 2:28:47)
remote.

[Speaker 5] (2:28:47 - 2:28:49)
Yeah. I mean, especially for site visits.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:50 - 2:28:51)
Yeah for so so for site visits

[Speaker 3] (2:28:51 - 2:28:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:52 - 2:28:58)
I mean I'm volunteering you, but I I am happy to as Krista knows, I meet with people and and can

[Speaker 3] (2:28:58 - 2:28:58)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:28:58 - 2:29:00)
review pre-review things

[Speaker 2] (2:29:00 - 2:29:00)
That's

[Speaker 1] (2:29:00 - 2:29:00)
and

[Speaker 2] (2:29:00 - 2:29:00)
great.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:00 - 2:29:01)
and so forth.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:01 - 2:29:03)
I think we do a pretty good job of

[Speaker 1] (2:29:03 - 2:29:04)
Sc spreading it out. It doesn't

[Speaker 3] (2:29:04 - 2:29:05)
allocating

[Speaker 1] (2:29:05 - 2:29:05)
have to be

[Speaker 2] (2:29:05 - 2:29:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:05 - 2:29:06)
because you're

[Speaker 3] (2:29:06 - 2:29:06)
right.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:06 - 2:29:07)
chair and

[Speaker 2] (2:29:07 - 2:29:07)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:07 - 2:29:07)
and vice

[Speaker 2] (2:29:07 - 2:29:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:07 - 2:29:08)
chair. So

[Speaker 3] (2:29:08 - 2:29:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:08 - 2:29:09)
um

[Speaker 3] (2:29:09 - 2:29:09)
Um

[Speaker 3] (2:29:10 - 2:29:10)
I agree.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:10 - 2:29:25)
I think we can, I think we can, you know, I can make a motion to nominate Joe again as chair and then someone can nominate me as vice chair with the understanding that we are going

[Speaker 1] (2:29:25 - 2:29:26)
I will second

[Speaker 4] (2:29:26 - 2:29:26)
to be,

[Speaker 1] (2:29:26 - 2:29:28)
your nomination of Joe as chair to

[Speaker 4] (2:29:28 - 2:29:28)
okay,

[Speaker 1] (2:29:28 - 2:29:28)
speed

[Speaker 4] (2:29:28 - 2:29:29)
great.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:29 - 2:29:29)
this up.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:30 - 2:29:30)
Okay,

[Speaker 3] (2:29:30 - 2:29:30)
Is there a

[Speaker 4] (2:29:30 - 2:29:31)
and then

[Speaker 3] (2:29:31 - 2:29:31)
favor?

[Speaker 4] (2:29:31 - 2:29:33)
hi,

[Speaker 4] (2:29:33 - 2:29:35)
Angela Ippolito that I.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:35 - 2:29:37)
Jerrold Germa is an aye.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:37 - 2:29:39)
Arianne Purdy is an aye.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:39 - 2:29:40)
Do I vote?

[Speaker 3] (2:29:40 - 2:29:40)
I'm an aye.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:40 - 2:29:47)
There we go, unanimous. And I would make the motion to elect Angela Ippolito as vice chair.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:47 - 2:29:48)
I will second that.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:48 - 2:29:49)
All those in favor?

[Speaker 4] (2:29:51 - 2:29:52)
Hi, Angela Ippolito.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:52 - 2:29:54)
Jerrold Germa, aye.

[Speaker 3] (2:29:54 - 2:29:55)
Aye, Joe Sheridan.

[Speaker 2] (2:29:55 - 2:29:56)
Arianne Purdy.

[Speaker 4] (2:29:57 - 2:29:57)
Okay,

[Speaker 4] (2:29:58 - 2:29:59)
so we know what we're doing.

[Speaker 1] (2:29:59 - 2:29:59)
Okay,

[Speaker 1] (2:30:00 - 2:30:01)
now then we don't have to.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:02 - 2:30:03)
Let's see if it's ten

[Speaker 3] (2:30:03 - 2:30:03)
Timer.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:03 - 2:30:03)
minutes uh

[Speaker 3] (2:30:03 - 2:30:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:03 - 2:30:04)
in the month.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:04 - 2:30:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:30:05 - 2:30:06)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:06 - 2:30:08)
So we could, you know, if Joe's not available,

[Speaker 4] (2:30:08 - 2:30:14)
you know, first we go to Joe. If he's here, he's running the meetings. If, you know, whenever he's here and available,

[Speaker 4] (2:30:14 - 2:30:16)
he's running things.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:16 - 2:30:20)
If he is not available, if there's offline stuff,

[Speaker 4] (2:30:20 - 2:30:23)
you know, at off hours, different meetings that we have,

[Speaker 4] (2:30:23 - 2:30:26)
and he's not available, I'll fill in for him.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:27 - 2:30:32)
But I just want to make it clear that, you know, he's our lead person.

[Speaker 4] (2:30:33 - 2:30:38)
You know, like I said, I'm happy to work with him to fill in and I think we're both comfortable with that.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:38 - 2:30:39)
Yeah, thanks, Angela.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:39 - 2:30:42)
And we'll run it, you know, I mean, Chris, you've been doing a great job anyways,

[Speaker 3] (2:30:42 - 2:30:44)
and like being that hub,

[Speaker 3] (2:30:44 - 2:30:50)
which I really appreciate, making sure that we're all staying above board in terms of like communications and that sort of thing.

[Speaker 3] (2:30:50 - 2:30:53)
So we'll communicate all those sorts of things through you.

[Speaker 2] (2:30:53 - 2:30:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:53 - 2:30:58)
I was going to nominate Gary Kanner for his desire to stay in this meeting.

[Speaker 1] (2:30:59 - 2:31:05)
because really and that is a die-hard participant but

[Speaker 4] (2:31:07 - 2:31:07)
You're okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:07 - 2:31:09)
he'd have to be elected first so

[Speaker 4] (2:31:12 - 2:31:15)
We usually do that to people who don't make it to the meetings.

[Speaker 3] (2:31:16 - 2:31:16)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:16 - 2:31:21)
If you're not there, you're on this board now. You're on that new subcommittee.

[Speaker 6] (2:31:22 - 2:31:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (2:31:23 - 2:31:25)
I had you to walk the dog while you guys were over here.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:25 - 2:31:27)
You always thought you'd come.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:29 - 2:31:33)
And so we will have five sets of meeting minutes to approve at the next meeting.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:33 - 2:31:34)
Oh,

[Speaker 8] (2:31:34 - 2:31:34)
Will

[Speaker 1] (2:31:34 - 2:31:34)
yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:31:34 - 2:31:36)
you all try your best to review them beforehand?

[Speaker 3] (2:31:36 - 2:31:40)
Yeah, so yeah, if everybody could please, 'cause otherwise we're gonna spend half the meeting uh

[Speaker 4] (2:31:40 - 2:31:42)
I'll be I'll be here. I'm good. I'm on vacation

[Speaker 8] (2:31:42 - 2:31:43)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:43 - 2:31:48)
for from the twenty first to June fifth, but I will definitely be back for that meeting.

[Speaker 2] (2:31:48 - 2:31:48)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:48 - 2:31:50)
Did you say on medication or on

[Speaker 2] (2:31:50 - 2:31:50)
Vacation.

[Speaker 1] (2:31:50 - 2:31:50)
vacation?

[Speaker 4] (2:31:51 - 2:31:53)
Oh, both really. So

[Speaker 1] (2:31:53 - 2:31:53)
Okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:31:53 - 2:31:54)
just kind of

[Speaker 1] (2:31:55 - 2:31:56)
Yeah, and if I just want clarification,

[Speaker 1] (2:31:57 - 2:31:57)
um

[Speaker 3] (2:31:58 - 2:32:01)
All right. Thank you for that, Christa. That was a really helpful presentation.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:01 - 2:32:01)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:01 - 2:32:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:02 - 2:32:02)
That's excellent.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:02 - 2:32:03)
Thanks. And

[Speaker 1] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03)
And

[Speaker 4] (2:32:03 - 2:32:03)
I appreciate

[Speaker 1] (2:32:03 - 2:32:04)
and thank you

[Speaker 4] (2:32:04 - 2:32:04)
your conversation.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:04 - 2:32:07)
Thank you for your proactivity.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:07 - 2:32:07)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:07 - 2:32:08)
Like

[Speaker 4] (2:32:08 - 2:32:08)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (2:32:08 - 2:32:08)
that's

[Speaker 2] (2:32:08 - 2:32:13)
I guarantee that people thought that was B1 means no residential. I really think,

[Speaker 8] (2:32:13 - 2:32:13)
Well,

[Speaker 2] (2:32:13 - 2:32:13)
that's

[Speaker 8] (2:32:13 - 2:32:13)
that's

[Speaker 2] (2:32:13 - 2:32:16)
good to see. It's good that you have that nuance.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:16 - 2:32:17)
in standard zoning.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:19 - 2:32:21)
There is no residential in B1 like

[Speaker 2] (2:32:21 - 2:32:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:21 - 2:32:22)
in other areas,

[Speaker 4] (2:32:22 - 2:32:22)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:22 - 2:32:23)
so yeah,

[Speaker 2] (2:32:23 - 2:32:23)
It's

[Speaker 8] (2:32:23 - 2:32:24)
I think

[Speaker 2] (2:32:24 - 2:32:24)
like an eagle.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:24 - 2:32:25)
It's a good catch.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:25 - 2:32:32)
it was written, you know, based off of that, assuming that there is, you know, residential owners

[Speaker 1] (2:32:32 - 2:32:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:32 - 2:32:32)
You're

[Speaker 8] (2:32:32 - 2:32:32)
not

[Speaker 4] (2:32:32 - 2:32:33)
right.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:33 - 2:32:33)
allowed in B1.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:33 - 2:32:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:34 - 2:32:38)
Yes, I chime in also. Thank you very much for doing that.

[Speaker 4] (2:32:38 - 2:32:39)
I think it's great.

[Speaker 2] (2:32:40 - 2:32:40)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:40 - 2:32:46)
So next meeting, I'll hope to have more updates and we can continue to work towards

[Speaker 8] (2:32:48 - 2:32:58)
um some zoning changes for December because all of our zoning changes will be going in December. Um I will also put together some language for the EDUs.

[Speaker 3] (2:32:58 - 2:32:59)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:59 - 2:32:59)
Um with

[Speaker 2] (2:32:59 - 2:32:59)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (2:32:59 - 2:33:05)
the nine hundred square feet, hope hopefully that shouldn't be even too big of a change. Um but it is an inconsistency.

[Speaker 3] (2:33:05 - 2:33:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:33:06 - 2:33:06)
So

[Speaker 8] (2:33:06 - 2:33:06)
And

[Speaker 3] (2:33:06 - 2:33:06)
we have um

[Speaker 8] (2:33:06 - 2:33:09)
th we've had a lot of inquiries on EDUs recently. So we So um

[Speaker 3] (2:33:09 - 2:33:13)
if you jump in with where the inconsistency is on the nine hundred square feet.

[Speaker 8] (2:33:13 - 2:33:14)
Um so the

[Speaker 8] (2:33:15 - 2:33:34)
State, basically the state statute allows for a 900 square foot ADU to be permitted as of right with no other permitting, but our site plan special permit regulations require a site plan special permit for anything over 500 square feet.

[Speaker 8] (2:33:34 - 2:33:36)
So that's where the inconsistency lies.

[Speaker 8] (2:33:36 - 2:33:40)
A lot of people will call the office assuming that they don't.

[Speaker 8] (2:33:40 - 2:33:58)
need a permit to do an ADU as of right that's under 900 square feet and we tell them it's over 500 so you have to go to planning board for site plan special permit which conflicts with what the state's regulation is so making sure that we have consistency there and we're not opening ourselves up for

[Speaker 8] (2:33:59 - 2:34:00)
Any other interpretations?

[Speaker 1] (2:34:00 - 2:34:06)
But with that, would we look at moving the 500 square feet? Because I know the 500 square

[Speaker 8] (2:34:06 - 2:34:06)
Yep,

[Speaker 1] (2:34:06 - 2:34:06)
feet was

[Speaker 8] (2:34:06 - 2:34:06)
two

[Speaker 1] (2:34:06 - 2:34:06)
a lot.

[Speaker 8] (2:34:06 - 2:34:08)
900 480s.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:08 - 2:34:09)
Two 900 480s.

[Speaker 8] (2:34:09 - 2:34:09)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:09 - 2:34:10)
Awesome.

[Speaker 8] (2:34:10 - 2:34:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:10 - 2:34:10)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:11 - 2:34:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:11 - 2:34:11)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:11 - 2:34:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:12 - 2:34:12)
Great.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:12 - 2:34:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:34:13 - 2:34:16)
So hopefully that won't be too crazy of a change.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:16 - 2:34:19)
Two 900 or 50% of the...

[Speaker 8] (2:34:19 - 2:34:20)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:20 - 2:34:23)
of the um total square footage yeah

[Speaker 2] (2:34:23 - 2:34:24)
The existing residents,

[Speaker 3] (2:34:24 - 2:34:24)
that's

[Speaker 2] (2:34:24 - 2:34:25)
yes.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:25 - 2:34:25)
that's

[Speaker 4] (2:34:25 - 2:34:25)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:25 - 2:34:26)
how it actually lines up i'm seeing yeah

[Speaker 4] (2:34:26 - 2:34:27)
Right. Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:34:27 - 2:34:27)
yeah

[Speaker 4] (2:34:27 - 2:34:27)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:27 - 2:34:29)
wait or fifty percent

[Speaker 3] (2:34:29 - 2:34:39)
it's a two-pronged thing it's it's you you can do it by right if up to the lesser of 900 square feet or fifty percent of the square footage of the existing

[Speaker 1] (2:34:39 - 2:34:41)
So if you have a sixteen hundred square foot house,

[Speaker 1] (2:34:41 - 2:34:42)
you're going to stop at

[Speaker 2] (2:34:42 - 2:34:42)
You

[Speaker 1] (2:34:42 - 2:34:42)
eight

[Speaker 2] (2:34:42 - 2:34:42)
have to

[Speaker 1] (2:34:42 - 2:34:42)
hundred.

[Speaker 2] (2:34:42 - 2:34:43)
stop at 800.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:43 - 2:34:43)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:43 - 2:34:44)
That's right.

[Speaker 4] (2:34:45 - 2:34:46)
If there are any of those left anymore.

[Speaker 1] (2:34:47 - 2:35:01)
Yeah, the other um the other question that I have is in conversions are you still held to the nine hundred square feet? So if you've got a carriage house that's a thousand square feet, are

[Speaker 1] (2:35:01 - 2:35:07)
Are you only able to convert 900 square feet within that structure into ADU?

[Speaker 4] (2:35:07 - 2:35:23)
I thought we talked about this and you know there was like an existing if you're in a carriage house like you know you live on Devon's Road and you have a big old garage in the backyard and you want to convert that and it's 1,100 square feet.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:24 - 2:35:28)
I mean what are you going to do lop off you know a corner of the building that's ridiculous.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:28 - 2:35:29)
Well, it might be how,

[Speaker 1] (2:35:29 - 2:35:31)
how, how it's used.

[Speaker 8] (2:35:31 - 2:35:32)
I'll have to check with the state

[Speaker 4] (2:35:32 - 2:35:34)
But if it's a pre

[Speaker 8] (2:35:34 - 2:35:35)
specifies and

[Speaker 4] (2:35:35 - 2:35:37)
-existing building,

[Speaker 4] (2:35:37 - 2:35:39)
I think that's where we're going with it,

[Speaker 4] (2:35:39 - 2:35:43)
because you're converting something that's pre-existing on the ground.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:43 - 2:35:43)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:35:43 - 2:35:47)
That's where I think the difference is. You can't build something that big,

[Speaker 4] (2:35:47 - 2:35:49)
but if you're converting

[Speaker 1] (2:35:49 - 2:35:49)
We, we

[Speaker 4] (2:35:49 - 2:35:50)
it, you

[Speaker 1] (2:35:50 - 2:35:50)
should

[Speaker 4] (2:35:50 - 2:35:50)
know.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:50 - 2:35:54)
check because there's, you know, there are like there's a building.

[Speaker 1] (2:35:55 - 2:36:02)
a monument that is a bar that if it were to be converted would be about

[Speaker 1] (2:36:04 - 2:36:06)
thirty five hundred square feet.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:07 - 2:36:17)
So we should find out what that what that means. If you could you can cut out an apartment in it or if if you're you know you just have a thirty five hundred square foot 80U.

[Speaker 4] (2:36:17 - 2:36:18)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:36:18 - 2:36:20)
Well, if it's R1, they can't have an apartment anyway, right?

[Speaker 2] (2:36:21 - 2:36:22)
Like, do we have R1 multi,

[Speaker 2] (2:36:22 - 2:36:25)
like one unit residential per?

[Speaker 2] (2:36:26 - 2:36:27)
property or do we have any

[Speaker 8] (2:36:27 - 2:36:28)
Well,

[Speaker 2] (2:36:28 - 2:36:28)
you

[Speaker 8] (2:36:28 - 2:36:29)
R1 can have an ADU,

[Speaker 2] (2:36:29 - 2:36:29)
yeah

[Speaker 8] (2:36:29 - 2:36:30)
but...

[Speaker 2] (2:36:30 - 2:36:33)
but it can't but it can't have like an apartment in a barn right like it wouldn't be like

[Speaker 1] (2:36:33 - 2:36:34)
Well, but

[Speaker 9] (2:36:34 - 2:36:34)
if

[Speaker 1] (2:36:34 - 2:36:34)
if that...

[Speaker 9] (2:36:34 - 2:36:35)
it's an ADU, but if

[Speaker 2] (2:36:35 - 2:36:35)
if

[Speaker 9] (2:36:35 - 2:36:35)
it's

[Speaker 2] (2:36:35 - 2:36:35)
it's

[Speaker 9] (2:36:35 - 2:36:35)
an ADU.

[Speaker 2] (2:36:35 - 2:36:37)
an adu yeah if it's an adu

[Speaker 1] (2:36:37 - 2:36:37)
That's what yeah I mean.

[Speaker 2] (2:36:37 - 2:36:38)
yeah yeah

[Speaker 1] (2:36:38 - 2:36:39)
Yeah, because I look out

[Speaker 2] (2:36:39 - 2:36:39)
right

[Speaker 1] (2:36:39 - 2:36:40)
at this barn

[Speaker 2] (2:36:40 - 2:36:40)
if

[Speaker 1] (2:36:40 - 2:36:40)
and it's

[Speaker 2] (2:36:40 - 2:36:41)
it's an adu

[Speaker 1] (2:36:41 - 2:36:44)
always like a question in my head. It's like, God,

[Speaker 1] (2:36:44 - 2:36:47)
there it is, you know, what is

[Speaker 4] (2:36:47 - 2:36:52)
Chances are it's already, it's been an apartment for a long time, we don't even know about it.

[Speaker 1] (2:36:52 - 2:36:54)
No, trust me, the condition of this

[Speaker 1] (2:36:55 - 2:36:56)
it's a wreck

[Speaker 2] (2:36:56 - 2:36:59)
But they wouldn't be able to put multiple apartments or anything in there, like that

[Speaker 7] (2:36:59 - 2:36:59)
Um

[Speaker 2] (2:36:59 - 2:37:00)
all that would be prohibitive,

[Speaker 1] (2:37:00 - 2:37:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:01 - 2:37:01)
yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:02 - 2:37:02)
It

[Speaker 1] (2:37:02 - 2:37:03)
And

[Speaker 7] (2:37:03 - 2:37:04)
would be kind of a lot of weird illegal things

[Speaker 1] (2:37:04 - 2:37:05)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:37:05 - 2:37:06)
that have been there forever.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:06 - 2:37:08)
We'll see what comes in front of us.

[Speaker 3] (2:37:08 - 2:37:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:09 - 2:37:09)
Awesome.

[Speaker 3] (2:37:10 - 2:37:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:10 - 2:37:10)
Great.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:10 - 2:37:18)
Okay, can I just say I really want to welcome Ariane to our board. I'm so excited that you're here and

[Speaker 2] (2:37:18 - 2:37:18)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:18 - 2:37:27)
I'm just so grateful that you wanted to be a write-in candidate and we have you on our board now and I'm

[Speaker 2] (2:37:27 - 2:37:27)
Well,

[Speaker 4] (2:37:27 - 2:37:27)
very,

[Speaker 2] (2:37:27 - 2:37:28)
thank you. Appreciate

[Speaker 4] (2:37:28 - 2:37:28)
very pleased

[Speaker 2] (2:37:28 - 2:37:28)
it.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:28 - 2:37:28)
that.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:28 - 2:37:29)
I'm happy to be here.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:29 - 2:37:30)
Yeah, it's great.

[Speaker 3] (2:37:31 - 2:37:32)
Yeah, thanks Angela.

[Speaker 3] (2:37:32 - 2:37:32)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:32 - 2:37:33)
I am thrilled.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:35 - 2:37:37)
And I'm thrilled to have someone else that...

[Speaker 2] (2:37:38 - 2:37:38)
Can you read a plan?

[Speaker 1] (2:37:38 - 2:37:46)
read plans not nothing against you guys i think you're doing great but these things get in front of you and they're

[Speaker 2] (2:37:46 - 2:37:46)
You

[Speaker 1] (2:37:46 - 2:37:46)
they're

[Speaker 2] (2:37:46 - 2:37:47)
get quite, you have to be quite

[Speaker 1] (2:37:47 - 2:37:49)
they're very hard to read so

[Speaker 4] (2:37:49 - 2:37:51)
Yeah, I hear you.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:52 - 2:37:52)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:37:52 - 2:37:58)
all right um yeah i would make a motion to uh adjourn is there a second

[Speaker 2] (2:37:58 - 2:37:58)
I

[Speaker 4] (2:37:58 - 2:37:59)
So moved.

[Speaker 2] (2:37:59 - 2:37:59)
second it.

[Speaker 4] (2:37:59 - 2:38:01)
I mean, I mean second.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:01 - 2:38:02)
Yeah, I second.

[Speaker 1] (2:38:02 - 2:38:03)
all right all in favor

[Speaker 3] (2:38:04 - 2:38:04)
All

[Speaker 2] (2:38:04 - 2:38:05)
Bye.

[Speaker 3] (2:38:05 - 2:38:05)
right.

[Speaker 2] (2:38:05 - 2:38:05)
Bye.

[Speaker 3] (2:38:05 - 2:38:06)
All right.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:06 - 2:38:08)
Thank you everyone. Good night.

[Speaker 3] (2:38:08 - 2:38:09)
So good night.

[Speaker 4] (2:38:09 - 2:38:09)
Okay.