[Speaker 1] (1:18 - 1:20)
All set? Okay, great.

[Speaker 2] (1:20 - 1:21)
Oops. Good bad.

[Speaker 1] (1:21 - 1:34)
Um with that I will open up this uh June 8th 2026 Swampscott planning board hearing uh and the first item on our agenda today is approval of the past meeting minutes.

[Speaker 2] (1:35 - 1:35)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:35 - 1:40)
So I'm hope d everybody have a chance to look and Yep. provide any comments.

[Speaker 3] (1:42 - 1:52)
So there are five there are five sets of meeting minutes, um the February ninth, March second, March ninth, April thirteenth and May eleventh.

[Speaker 1] (1:53 - 2:02)
And we should probably approve them one by one 'cause some folks were here for some and some folks weren't for others. Um but if

[Speaker 4] (2:02 - 2:02)
So

[Speaker 1] (2:02 - 2:03)
any if everybody is

[Speaker 4] (2:03 - 2:06)
Could you put them on the screen just so that we see who's

[Speaker 3] (2:06 - 2:06)
Sure.

[Speaker 4] (2:06 - 2:07)
in attendance?

[Speaker 1] (2:07 - 2:07)
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 4] (2:07 - 2:08)
Yeah, that makes sense.

[Speaker 4] (2:08 - 2:10)
By the exact date it might be helpful.

[Speaker 1] (2:10 - 2:12)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. You don't remember the exact dates?

[Speaker 4] (2:12 - 2:12)
No.

[Speaker 1] (2:12 - 2:13)
No.

[Speaker 1] (2:13 - 2:16)
Um okay.

[Speaker 4] (2:16 - 2:17)
I don't even remember if I missed one.

[Speaker 1] (2:17 - 2:18)
Yeah, I'm kidding.

[Speaker 5] (2:18 - 2:20)
I think I did. I don't

[Speaker 1] (2:20 - 2:20)
Yeah, I definitely

[Speaker 4] (2:20 - 2:20)
You

[Speaker 1] (2:20 - 2:20)
missed

[Speaker 4] (2:20 - 2:21)
did.

[Speaker 1] (2:21 - 2:22)
one and I don't remember which one I

[Speaker 6] (2:22 - 2:22)
Definitely

[Speaker 1] (2:22 - 2:22)
missed.

[Speaker 6] (2:22 - 2:23)
missed one, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:27 - 2:28)
Just one second.

[Speaker 1] (2:34 - 2:36)
Did you get any comments on an Okay. register or no?

[Speaker 3] (2:36 - 2:39)
No, I I didn't receive any comments from any board members.

[Speaker 5] (2:57 - 3:00)
Ah, March second and March ninth.

[Speaker 3] (3:18 - 3:19)
Okay, so on

[Speaker 1] (3:19 - 3:28)
So the first set is the February ninth twenty twenty six meeting. Uh that was one that you weren't at your um

[Speaker 5] (3:28 - 3:29)
I think I was though.

[Speaker 1] (3:29 - 3:33)
You were. So Angela or Bill do you have a motion to approve?

[Speaker 5] (3:33 - 3:37)
I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from February ninth.

[Speaker 1] (3:37 - 3:38)
Is there a second?

[Speaker 4] (3:38 - 3:39)
I second.

[Speaker 1] (3:39 - 3:41)
Alright. All those in favor?

[Speaker 5] (3:41 - 3:41)
Aye.

[Speaker 4] (3:41 - 3:42)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (3:42 - 3:43)
All those abstaining?

[Speaker 4] (3:44 - 3:44)
Abstaining.

[Speaker 5] (3:45 - 3:45)
Abstain.

[Speaker 1] (3:45 - 3:45)
Great.

[Speaker 7] (3:47 - 3:49)
I did read through them all, so I was

[Speaker 1] (3:49 - 3:50)
Okay, thank you.

[Speaker 7] (3:50 - 3:51)
caught up with

[Speaker 1] (3:51 - 3:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (3:51 - 3:53)
any ca any anything I might carry over, but.

[Speaker 4] (3:55 - 4:02)
This is just simply looking at this screen, um the staff F_ has fallen off and is over. It's just a

[Speaker 4] (4:04 - 4:05)
formatting thing.

[Speaker 1] (4:05 - 4:07)
Yeah, there's a formatting thing with the whole um

[Speaker 4] (4:07 - 4:08)
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 7] (4:08 - 4:10)
Oh the whole the whole method.

[Speaker 1] (4:10 - 4:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (4:10 - 4:10)
She

[Speaker 4] (4:12 - 4:12)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (4:12 - 4:12)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (4:12 - 4:13)
our names are split up too.

[Speaker 7] (4:13 - 4:14)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (4:16 - 4:17)
It's just the

[Speaker 5] (4:17 - 4:19)
online thing.

[Speaker 3] (4:19 - 4:21)
Yeah, I think if I open it in Word,

[Speaker 7] (4:21 - 4:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (4:21 - 4:22)
then it fixes itself.

[Speaker 3] (4:22 - 4:22)
yeah,

[Speaker 3] (4:22 - 4:22)
it's

[Speaker 1] (4:22 - 4:23)
Oh yeah,

[Speaker 3] (4:23 - 4:23)
it won't be

[Speaker 1] (4:23 - 4:23)
they don't

[Speaker 3] (4:23 - 4:23)
fixed.

[Speaker 1] (4:23 - 4:24)
worry about it.

[Speaker 3] (4:24 - 4:24)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (4:24 - 4:27)
All right, this is the March 2nd 2026

[Speaker 5] (4:27 - 4:27)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (4:27 - 4:28)
meeting.

[Speaker 5] (4:28 - 4:29)
So,

[Speaker 1] (4:29 - 4:32)
Alright, Jura and I were both not here for this one.

[Speaker 5] (4:33 - 4:36)
okay. So again I can make a motion to

[Speaker 1] (4:36 - 4:36)
Sure.

[Speaker 1] (4:36 - 4:37)
Alright.

[Speaker 5] (4:37 - 4:39)
approve the minutes from March 2nd.

[Speaker 1] (4:39 - 4:40)
There is a second?

[Speaker 4] (4:41 - 4:41)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (4:41 - 4:42)
Alright,

[Speaker 1] (4:42 - 4:43)
all those in favor?

[Speaker 5] (4:43 - 4:43)
Aye.

[Speaker 4] (4:44 - 4:44)
Hmm.

[Speaker 1] (4:44 - 4:44)
Uh

[Speaker 5] (4:44 - 4:45)
Head's not here, so

[Speaker 1] (4:45 - 4:48)
is that where I I think it has to I think that's sufficient.

[Speaker 5] (4:49 - 4:49)
It's all

[Speaker 1] (4:49 - 4:49)
All

[Speaker 5] (4:49 - 4:49)
we can

[Speaker 1] (4:49 - 4:49)
those

[Speaker 5] (4:49 - 4:49)
do.

[Speaker 1] (4:49 - 4:51)
abstaining? Aye.

[Speaker 5] (4:51 - 4:51)
Okay,

[Speaker 1] (4:51 - 4:51)
Aye.

[Speaker 7] (4:51 - 4:51)
Aye.

[Speaker 5] (4:51 - 4:51)
then I

[Speaker 8] (4:53 - 4:53)
We're it.

[Speaker 1] (4:54 - 4:57)
I think it's fine, because there's a majority of the people

[Speaker 7] (4:57 - 4:57)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (4:57 - 4:58)
that

[Speaker 8] (4:58 - 4:58)
Readily

[Speaker 1] (4:58 - 4:58)
would be elected

[Speaker 5] (4:58 - 4:58)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (4:58 - 4:59)
for this matter.

[Speaker 5] (4:59 - 4:59)
right.

[Speaker 1] (4:59 - 4:59)
So

[Speaker 5] (4:59 - 5:01)
And mean it's not possible for

[Speaker 1] (5:01 - 5:01)
it's not possible.

[Speaker 5] (5:01 - 5:02)
Ed to

[Speaker 1] (5:02 - 5:03)
Right, so

[Speaker 5] (5:03 - 5:03)
beam

[Speaker 7] (5:03 - 5:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (5:03 - 5:03)
himself

[Speaker 1] (5:03 - 5:04)
I think

[Speaker 5] (5:04 - 5:04)
back

[Speaker 1] (5:04 - 5:04)
I'm okay

[Speaker 5] (5:04 - 5:04)
in

[Speaker 1] (5:04 - 5:04)
with

[Speaker 5] (5:04 - 5:04)
here.

[Speaker 1] (5:04 - 5:05)
it.

[Speaker 5] (5:06 - 5:06)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (5:07 - 5:11)
Um alright, the March ninth uh twenty twenty six meeting.

[Speaker 5] (5:11 - 5:12)
I was not here.

[Speaker 1] (5:12 - 5:14)
Yeah, Angela's not here for this one. Uh

[Speaker 1] (5:15 - 5:17)
Do you have a motion to approve

[Speaker 9] (5:17 - 5:17)
I can

[Speaker 1] (5:17 - 5:17)
that?

[Speaker 9] (5:17 - 5:21)
make a motion on this one to approve the March ninth twenty twenty six meeting minutes.

[Speaker 1] (5:21 - 5:22)
Is there a second?

[Speaker 4] (5:23 - 5:23)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (5:24 - 5:25)
Alright, all those in favour?

[Speaker 9] (5:25 - 5:25)
Aye.

[Speaker 4] (5:25 - 5:25)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (5:26 - 5:26)
Alright.

[Speaker 1] (5:26 - 5:27)
All

[Speaker 3] (5:27 - 5:27)
Jane.

[Speaker 1] (5:27 - 5:28)
those abstaining?

[Speaker 5] (5:28 - 5:29)
Mason, I.

[Speaker 1] (5:29 - 5:29)
Alright.

[Speaker 1] (5:37 - 5:44)
April 13, 2026 meeting minutes. Uh everyone that was on the board at that time was in attendance.

[Speaker 1] (5:45 - 5:47)
Do I have a motion to approve?

[Speaker 4] (5:47 - 5:48)
So moved.

[Speaker 1] (5:48 - 5:49)
Alright, a second?

[Speaker 7] (5:50 - 5:50)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (5:51 - 5:52)
Alright, all those in favour?

[Speaker 4] (5:52 - 5:52)
Aye.

[Speaker 9] (5:52 - 5:52)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (5:52 - 5:52)
Aye.

[Speaker 5] (5:53 - 5:53)
Well.

[Speaker 1] (5:53 - 5:54)
Abstaining?

[Speaker 7] (5:54 - 5:56)
Abstaining. Here we have a

[Speaker 1] (6:02 - 6:10)
And last one, the May Eleventh twenty twenty six meeting minutes. Is there a motion to approve? Second.

[Speaker 9] (6:10 - 6:11)
So moved.

[Speaker 4] (6:11 - 6:11)
Mm.

[Speaker 1] (6:11 - 6:12)
Is there a second?

[Speaker 3] (6:12 - 6:13)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (6:13 - 6:14)
Alright, all those in favour?

[Speaker 9] (6:15 - 6:15)
Aye.

[Speaker 7] (6:15 - 6:15)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (6:15 - 6:16)
Aye? All those abstaining?

[Speaker 7] (6:17 - 6:17)
Aye.

[Speaker 3] (6:17 - 6:17)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (6:17 - 6:22)
Ah okay, great. Um thanks Krista, and thanks everybody for taking a look beforehand. Otherwise

[Speaker 3] (6:22 - 6:24)
Yep. Yeah, a lot a lot to get there.

[Speaker 1] (6:24 - 6:25)
though along

[Speaker 3] (6:25 - 6:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (6:25 - 6:25)
uh introduction

[Speaker 3] (6:25 - 6:26)
thank you.

[Speaker 1] (6:26 - 6:28)
to this meeting. Um okay.

[Speaker 1] (6:30 - 6:32)
Moving on the agenda,

[Speaker 1] (6:32 - 6:44)
our next item is a continuation of the public hearing for application twenty five dash twenty one, 80 Puritan Road by Scott by Scott Miller.

[Speaker 1] (6:45 - 6:48)
And I know that you submitted a new plan,

[Speaker 1] (6:48 - 6:52)
so I'll open it up to you first if you want to say anything,

[Speaker 1] (6:52 - 6:53)
otherwise we can.

[Speaker 10] (6:54 - 6:56)
I don't think there's Yeah. too much to say.

[Speaker 1] (6:56 - 6:56)
Yes.

[Speaker 10] (6:56 - 6:59)
It's just we changed plans so that

[Speaker 1] (6:59 - 6:59)
Yes.

[Speaker 10] (6:59 - 7:04)
it's 750 square feet in half story.

[Speaker 1] (7:04 - 7:04)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (7:06 - 7:12)
Then I'll just open it up to the board, and in particular, I'd like to ask Jura and Angela,

[Speaker 1] (7:12 - 7:13)
you know.

[Speaker 4] (7:14 - 7:15)
I just have a quick question.

[Speaker 1] (7:15 - 7:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (7:15 - 7:21)
Did that bring the were you able to bring the roof down by bringing that square footage down?

[Speaker 4] (7:22 - 7:31)
Uh, because the detail on the front of it, without having the other drawings with it, does look like it has changed. Did you change elevation? Exterior?

[Speaker 10] (7:31 - 7:32)
I wasn't aware of that.

[Speaker 4] (7:33 - 7:33)
Oh,

[Speaker 10] (7:33 - 7:33)
Uh

[Speaker 7] (7:33 - 7:33)
Last

[Speaker 4] (7:33 - 7:33)
thank you.

[Speaker 7] (7:33 - 7:33)
time.

[Speaker 7] (7:34 - 7:34)
Mm.

[Speaker 10] (7:35 - 7:37)
Uh I know he brought the the walls in,

[Speaker 10] (7:37 - 7:38)
and

[Speaker 10] (7:40 - 7:41)
that was the change.

[Speaker 7] (7:44 - 7:44)
The knee walls.

[Speaker 10] (7:45 - 7:45)
He

[Speaker 5] (7:45 - 7:51)
But this still says first uh to midpoint of the dormer, he still got thirty four and a half feet.

[Speaker 5] (7:53 - 7:55)
Which I think is where it was at before.

[Speaker 4] (7:55 - 8:01)
Yeah. 'Cause I I thought the intention on the square footage was to try to bring the building down or

[Speaker 7] (8:01 - 8:05)
And put and push the walls out. We were saying you could then push the walls out and get more usable space

[Speaker 4] (8:05 - 8:05)
right.

[Speaker 7] (8:05 - 8:07)
if you could drop them and stay

[Speaker 4] (8:07 - 8:07)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (8:07 - 8:07)
at nine.

[Speaker 4] (8:07 - 8:15)
So it looks like you've shrunk this space, but you haven't reduced the sa the height of the building as we were discussing last time.

[Speaker 1] (8:17 - 8:23)
Well, I thought the main issue the last time was just making sure that the interior space was

[Speaker 5] (8:23 - 8:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (8:23 - 8:24)
compliant.

[Speaker 4] (8:24 - 8:38)
I mean if it if it's compliant I think that's fine. It is it is a loss of square footage, because you would have had all of that space that if you'd lowered the building, that seven foot two could have actually you could have had an s slight angled ceiling,

[Speaker 4] (8:38 - 8:42)
Yeah. um but maintained

[Speaker 4] (8:42 - 8:49)
usable square footage that was larger with the goal of shortening the building right now all it's happened is those interior walls have moved

[Speaker 9] (8:49 - 8:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (8:49 - 8:56)
so the town gets a taller building and you get less usable square footage but

[Speaker 5] (8:56 - 8:58)
I think we need to.

[Speaker 4] (8:58 - 9:08)
I think that that's I certainly if I was your designer I would not advise that because it seems like

[Speaker 4] (9:09 - 9:14)
you're um you're really missing an opportunity for that space to be better inside

[Speaker 1] (9:14 - 9:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (9:14 - 9:27)
um while still addressing the height and the scale of the building next to the adjacent buildings. Um but it doesn't seem to be reflected

[Speaker 4] (9:28 - 9:49)
in the so you know I don't I don't wanna sound like a broken record on it, but we keep coming back to the fact that there's concern about the height of building. But um if the desire is to reduce the square footage um and have a taller building, I guess that's where we are and

[Speaker 7] (9:49 - 9:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (9:49 - 9:50)
that's what we need to vote on.

[Speaker 5] (9:50 - 9:51)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (9:51 - 9:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (9:51 - 9:53)
Well, it's still it's still within the

[Speaker 5] (9:55 - 9:56)
the zoning requirements

[Speaker 1] (9:57 - 9:57)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (9:57 - 9:57)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (9:59 - 10:11)
If it's just the concern was you know having a half story on top of it that was greater in square footage than half of the floor below.

[Speaker 1] (10:11 - 10:16)
So now that that's been adjusted

[Speaker 2] (10:18 - 10:20)
Which I think has now been resolved.

[Speaker 1] (10:20 - 10:30)
So, and everything else is within compliance. I don't, you know, you're aware of the situation with the as-built,

[Speaker 1] (10:30 - 10:33)
like you're going to have to, you'll have to have a survey or

[Speaker 3] (10:33 - 10:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (10:34 - 10:36)
as long as they're just making sure you knew.

[Speaker 3] (10:36 - 10:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (10:38 - 10:39)
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1] (10:39 - 10:44)
Then, I mean, I don't think I have any other issues.

[Speaker 4] (10:45 - 10:46)
I stole your drawing.

[Speaker 5] (10:47 - 10:48)
Um

[Speaker 6] (10:48 - 10:50)
I like big traveling piles.

[Speaker 5] (10:50 - 10:50)
Alright, so I think

[Speaker 1] (10:50 - 10:59)
Wait, did we talk about where the um the HVAC stuff is? I mean, is it currently in the basement? Is there a basement? Yeah, there is.

[Speaker 6] (10:59 - 11:00)
There's a basement, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (11:00 - 11:15)
And and so and are those um 'cause you're in a flood zone, so but you're not changing you're not pulling out the square footage of the the uh the footprint of the building. So um I don't think that you need to raise it above that level.

[Speaker 1] (11:17 - 11:18)
or adding something on top

[Speaker 1] (11:19 - 11:23)
it'd be different if you were you know sort of uh

[Speaker 1] (11:25 - 11:32)
manipulating I guess would be the right word if you were deconstructing the first or second floor of the building but you're not okay

[Speaker 6] (11:33 - 11:34)
Um

[Speaker 7] (11:36 - 11:44)
Okay. I think, you know, given uh the passage of time here, it makes sense to go through the uh criteria one more time, just

[Speaker 1] (11:44 - 11:44)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (11:44 - 11:45)
to make sure all in the same page.

[Speaker 1] (11:45 - 11:46)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (11:46 - 11:46)
Very good.

[Speaker 7] (11:46 - 11:53)
Uh so just running through section five point four point eight point zero.

[Speaker 7] (11:54 - 12:18)
Um, number one uh minimise the volume of cut and fill, the number of removed trees, six inch caliper or larger, the length of removed stone walls, the area of wetland vegetation displaced, the extent of storm water flow increase from the site, soil erosion and threat of air and water pollution. I don't think that there's really much uh on this point, because as Angela you just pointed out, there's there's no change to the

[Speaker 7] (12:19 - 12:20)
The foundation of the

[Speaker 6] (12:20 - 12:20)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (12:20 - 12:22)
building, and there's no trees being removed or or

[Speaker 6] (12:22 - 12:22)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (12:22 - 12:33)
anything like that. Um maximize pedestrian vehicular safety both on the site and egressing from it. I don't think there's any b we're not changing the um

[Speaker 1] (12:33 - 12:33)
Think it's there.

[Speaker 7] (12:33 - 12:36)
no change there, and there's plenty of parking.

[Speaker 7] (12:36 - 12:40)
Uh minimize obstruction of scenic views from publicly accessible locations.

[Speaker 7] (12:40 - 12:56)
This is one thing that we spoke about with the addition of the cupola, but you know um you could have the H_D_C_ come and talk about this and I think we've all gotten comfortable uh with it. No one from the public has raised any concerns here, so I think uh this is fine.

[Speaker 7] (12:57 - 13:22)
uh minimize visual intrusion by controlling the visibility of parking storage or other outdoor service areas view from public ways again nothing's changing there so um I I you know there's nothing really to minimize minimize clear from headlights and lighting intrusion uh again there's no change in the traffic pattern or anything like that so I don't think there's anything to minimize here

[Speaker 7] (13:23 - 13:46)
Minimize any reasonable departure from the character materials and scale of buildings in the vicinity as viewed from public ways and places. Again, this is another thing we spent a lot of time talking about. I think this has been addressed. We've discussed the cupola and the additional story, I think, about as much as we can discuss it. And we've gotten comfortable that this has minimized any unreasonable departures.

[Speaker 7] (13:47 - 14:00)
Minimize contamination of ground water from on-site waste water disposal systems or operations uh on the premises involving the use, storage, handling or containment of hazardous substances. Um this isn't really applicable here I don't believe.

[Speaker 7] (14:01 - 14:19)
um inshore compliance with the provisions of the zoning by-law, including parking and landscaping. The parking and landscaping not so applicable here because nothing's really changing, but we spent I think a significant amount of time talking about ensuring that this is compliant with the provisions of the zoning by-law, and I

[Speaker 1] (14:19 - 14:19)
Um

[Speaker 7] (14:19 - 14:19)
think that means

[Speaker 1] (14:19 - 14:20)
in in terms of landscaping

[Speaker 6] (14:20 - 14:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (14:21 - 14:27)
I know we did pretty much you know we allowed you to include the landscaping plan on the site plan, which is fine.

[Speaker 1] (14:27 - 14:27)
fine.

[Speaker 1] (14:27 - 14:38)
But I wanted to be certain that we had a couple of things firmed up that the grass lawn on either side of the front walkway the grass will remain.

[Speaker 1] (14:38 - 14:43)
The grass is not going to be replaced by pebbles or anything like that.

[Speaker 6] (14:43 - 14:44)
Yeah, you know it's

[Speaker 1] (14:44 - 14:53)
Okay and that the trees and shrubbery that you're indicating here are that is a formal landscape plan so we will expect to see those.

[Speaker 1] (14:53 - 14:54)
those plantings is that

[Speaker 8] (14:54 - 14:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (14:54 - 14:55)
correct okay

[Speaker 8] (14:55 - 14:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (14:55 - 15:04)
great and I know there was you know you talked about with rich in terms of the support for the two decks

[Speaker 8] (15:04 - 15:05)
Yeah, the decks,

[Speaker 1] (15:05 - 15:05)
that

[Speaker 8] (15:05 - 15:05)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (15:05 - 15:08)
you have the correct this like a concrete

[Speaker 8] (15:09 - 15:10)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (15:10 - 15:17)
I have to find out what's under there and yeah, I had to dig around and then I got to move it anyway.

[Speaker 1] (15:17 - 15:20)
okay so those will be in your construction plans right

[Speaker 8] (15:20 - 15:21)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 8] (15:21 - 15:21)
have Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (15:21 - 15:21)
to get

[Speaker 8] (15:21 - 15:21)
yeah,

[Speaker 1] (15:21 - 15:22)
eventual. Okay.

[Speaker 8] (15:22 - 15:24)
yeah, they'll be inspected.

[Speaker 1] (15:24 - 15:26)
Okay. Um thank you.

[Speaker 7] (15:27 - 15:28)
Okay. Thanks, Angela.

[Speaker 7] (15:31 - 15:39)
Um number nine, minimize adverse traffic impact of the proposed project. Um, again, there's not much to minimise uh

[Speaker 7] (15:41 - 15:49)
it's just uh an addition of a story. Um and then minimise the hazard of coastal flooding, taking into account the effects of long-term sea level rise and storm surge.

[Speaker 7] (15:49 - 15:54)
Again, we're not increasing um the outline or perimeter of the building. So I

[Speaker 1] (15:54 - 15:54)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (15:54 - 15:56)
don't think there's much to do there.

[Speaker 7] (15:56 - 16:03)
Um so when I go through that, I hear, you know, three things I think that we wanna condition this on

[Speaker 7] (16:03 - 16:12)
uh ensuring that the landscaping reflects what is shown on this, that this is brought in as the formal landscaping plan.

[Speaker 7] (16:13 - 16:18)
The the this sort of ties into it, but ensuring that the grass lawn remains um

[Speaker 7] (16:19 - 16:29)
You know, sort of goes without saying, but ensuring that whatever needs to be done with the decks is coordinating with the building department um and I think that's everything that I have on my list.

[Speaker 1] (16:29 - 16:39)
Mm-hmm. I don't know if fire had any comments about sprinkling that second story uh the third floor, if you wanna call it that, the half story.

[Speaker 1] (16:40 - 16:42)
Um I don't think we did, but

[Speaker 9] (16:44 - 16:45)
Let me pull it up.

[Speaker 1] (16:47 - 16:51)
I mean it's a good idea to do, but um

[Speaker 10] (17:04 - 17:09)
So this was the only comment that fire had, um which was that the fire department has no objections.

[Speaker 1] (17:10 - 17:17)
Okay, okay. In that case it's fine then tip of their just the the usual smoke alarms as required.

[Speaker 1] (17:20 - 17:20)
Thank you.

[Speaker 6] (17:20 - 17:20)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (17:21 - 17:23)
Any other comments from the board?

[Speaker 6] (17:25 - 17:26)
No, sir.

[Speaker 6] (17:26 - 17:26)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (17:27 - 17:32)
Okay, I'll just quickly open it up then for public comment to see if there's anybody online.

[Speaker 7] (17:34 - 17:37)
Is there anybody online who's here to speak on this petition?

[Speaker 7] (17:41 - 17:42)
Okay,

[Speaker 7] (17:42 - 17:42)
seems not.

[Speaker 7] (17:44 - 17:46)
Then do I have a motion to approve?

[Speaker 6] (17:51 - 17:55)
I think a motion to approve, but could you just uh add the conditions in for me?

[Speaker 7] (17:56 - 17:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (17:56 - 17:57)
I haven't written it down. So

[Speaker 7] (17:58 - 18:17)
So the conditions that I listed were uh grass lawn to remain as shown on the plans, the landscaping and shrubbery shown on the plans to be, you know, brought in as the formal landscape plan and part of the um approval, and that um the petitioner will coordinate with um

[Speaker 7] (18:18 - 18:20)
uh the building

[Speaker 11] (18:20 - 18:20)
Building.

[Speaker 7] (18:20 - 18:25)
Department on whatever has to be done uh to ensure the decks are compliant with code and that sort of thing.

[Speaker 6] (18:25 - 18:29)
So I make a motion to approve the petition.

[Speaker 11] (18:33 - 18:35)
Oh, let's see, it's been so long we forget the number.

[Speaker 6] (18:35 - 18:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (18:36 - 18:36)
Twenty five days

[Speaker 10] (18:36 - 18:36)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (18:36 - 18:37)
to twenty one.

[Speaker 10] (18:37 - 18:38)
Twenty five to twenty one.

[Speaker 6] (18:38 - 18:43)
There's twenty one, 80, 80 Puritan Road with the conditions that were just read into the minutes.

[Speaker 1] (18:45 - 18:45)
Second.

[Speaker 7] (18:45 - 18:47)
Second, all right, all those in favour?

[Speaker 1] (18:47 - 18:48)
Aye.

[Speaker 7] (18:48 - 18:48)
Aye.

[Speaker 8] (18:48 - 18:49)
Hi.

[Speaker 10] (18:49 - 18:49)
Hi.

[Speaker 7] (18:51 - 18:52)
All right. Congrats.

[Speaker 8] (18:52 - 18:54)
Thank you to all the board members.

[Speaker 7] (18:54 - 18:55)
Thanks.

[Speaker 8] (18:55 - 18:55)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (18:58 - 18:59)
Good luck with all.

[Speaker 7] (19:02 - 19:13)
Okay. Um moving on to the next item on the agenda, we will open up the hearing for petition twenty six dash oh nine by David Wilkinson.

[Speaker 7] (19:14 - 19:26)
requesting a site plan special permit to construct an 896 square foot ADU breezeway and porch addition to the existing single-family residence in the A1 zoning district at 10 Puritan Park.

[Speaker 7] (19:27 - 19:32)
So I'll turn it over to you if you could just introduce yourself you know state your name for the record.

[Speaker 12] (19:32 - 19:37)
Sure. Good evening board members. My name is David Wilkinson. I'm a resident at 10 Puritan Park.

[Speaker 12] (19:37 - 19:42)
I've lived there with my wife and two kids. We've lived in Swampscott since 2012.

[Speaker 12] (19:42 - 19:47)
So happy to be here and appreciate your time tonight.

[Speaker 12] (19:47 - 19:54)
I'll turn the presentation over to my architect Craig Bosworth to go through this in detail. But the purpose of the application is

[Speaker 1] (19:58 - 20:16)
My father-in-law will be moving in with us once the construction of this is completed. And so have done everything we can to ensure that we're compliant with the underlying zoning bylaws and so here to talk through any questions that you may have and look forward to the conversation tonight.

[Speaker 1] (20:16 - 20:16)
tonight.

[Speaker 1] (20:16 - 20:25)
Thanks very much. I should also add, we did a pre-file meeting on, it was April 14th with Krista and Inspector Baldacci.

[Speaker 1] (20:25 - 20:27)
So I've got some of their feedback,

[Speaker 1] (20:27 - 20:39)
have one comment that we received from Inspector Baldacci, which I believe was included in your package tonight that we believe is hopefully addressed satisfactorily, but happy to discuss any questions you have.

[Speaker 2] (20:40 - 20:41)
Great, thanks.

[Speaker 3] (20:51 - 20:52)
Yeah, no, this

[Speaker 4] (20:52 - 20:52)
This is is good.

[Speaker 3] (20:52 - 20:52)
good.

[Speaker 4] (20:53 - 20:54)
Yeah, I love the voice.

[Speaker 3] (20:54 - 20:55)
Yeah, me too.

[Speaker 4] (20:55 - 20:57)
I'm dating myself.

[Speaker 5] (20:57 - 20:58)
I'm dating myself.

[Speaker 4] (20:59 - 20:59)
No, no,

[Speaker 3] (20:59 - 20:59)
That's

[Speaker 4] (20:59 - 21:00)
no, I'm

[Speaker 3] (21:00 - 21:00)
alright.

[Speaker 4] (21:00 - 21:00)
I'm definitely.

[Speaker 3] (21:00 - 21:00)
strict.

[Speaker 5] (21:00 - 21:05)
I also have an architect in Marblehead and David had reached out to us to help him with the

[Speaker 5] (21:06 - 21:19)
attach the A_D_U_ application. Um just quickly, this is Purative Road, Purative Park, this is at the heading of the Humber of the street. He has this corner lot right here. So we we are in a world where we're dealing with a corner lot and setbacks and you for ourselves.

[Speaker 6] (21:19 - 21:19)
Okay, you just could Sorry.

[Speaker 5] (21:19 - 21:20)
short.

[Speaker 6] (21:20 - 21:20)
not

[Speaker 5] (21:20 - 21:20)
Oh

[Speaker 6] (21:20 - 21:21)
hear. Oh sorry.

[Speaker 1] (21:21 - 21:22)
Craig, we need to use the mic he's asking.

[Speaker 5] (21:22 - 21:24)
Oh. Thank you.

[Speaker 5] (21:25 - 21:26)
Do I need to repeat myself?

[Speaker 6] (21:26 - 21:27)
No, you're good.

[Speaker 5] (21:27 - 21:29)
Alright, thank you. Um

[Speaker 5] (21:29 - 21:51)
So the highlighted area represents the footprint of our proposed, and the intention here again, just give you an idea of what the house looks like. It's a two-story kind of brick house. Um there is a garage the attachment over the side and our intent is to have like a one-story attached EDU. Um while doing this we will also be um adding a small little covered porch and a new sense of entry.

[Speaker 5] (21:55 - 22:03)
Just as reference, the existing floor plan, um currently they drive into the garage and they have a circular driveway.

[Speaker 5] (22:04 - 22:08)
Our intention is to take and to build off of the existing house.

[Speaker 5] (22:09 - 22:29)
They do have an opening for the window that will become our new opening, because we're dealing with brick facade. That would be our new opening into a s small breezeway that will attach to the covered porch and then the ADU will be off of that. And in the end, the intent is to eliminate the circular drive and then that goes back to grass. He has small children, this would be a great place for them to play in the front yard.

[Speaker 5] (22:32 - 22:52)
Just the two relevant exterior elevations to the front, if you're on Pierremont Park looking at the main body of the house, and then the left side elevation, the area that we're gonna be attaching to. This is the garage beyond which is way over here, but the area that we're gonna be attaching to is really off of this window right here and the intent is to add a covered porch that you'll see in a moment.

[Speaker 5] (22:56 - 22:57)
So the floor plan here

[Speaker 5] (22:58 - 23:06)
Where that window once was will become a door and this becomes a small breezeway so that the family can interact with one another without having to go outside.

[Speaker 5] (23:07 - 23:10)
As the grandchildren will want to run over and see their grandfather,

[Speaker 5] (23:11 - 23:14)
this small little breezeway will give access out to a back patio space.

[Speaker 5] (23:15 - 23:20)
The covered porch is such that as a person would park they could walk up, enter the covered porch,

[Speaker 5] (23:21 - 23:25)
either directly into the main body of the house or into his ADU unit.

[Speaker 5] (23:25 - 23:33)
And the A_D_ unit A_D_U_ unit will be sufficient in the sense that when you walk in there'll be some storage, a laundry, basically have a living and kitchen area,

[Speaker 5] (23:34 - 23:50)
and then a bedroom suite with walk-in closet and a bathroom. So again meeting the criteria of less than nine hundred square feet, uh this seems to work well. Uh we're able to do some cathedral ceiling things to it that will help enhance the architecture of it. Uh but that's basically it.

[Speaker 4] (23:51 - 23:55)
And you said that the less than nine hundred is does not include the breezeway that

[Speaker 5] (23:55 - 23:55)
That's

[Speaker 4] (23:55 - 23:55)
the breezeway

[Speaker 5] (23:55 - 23:56)
correct.

[Speaker 4] (23:56 - 23:56)
is okay.

[Speaker 5] (23:56 - 23:56)
That's correct.

[Speaker 5] (23:58 - 24:01)
The breezeway is probably less than a hundred square feet, I think, overall.

[Speaker 5] (24:02 - 24:22)
So what we've done here is we've created the extra elevations of the of the ADU. And really the intent here is just to show in 2D what that ADU is going to look like. With some of the cathedral ceiling spaces we will have some transoms. So this is the courtyard side or the entry side. As the porch is dying in you'd have an entry.

[Speaker 5] (24:22 - 24:28)
This happens to be where the kitchen is but you'll have cathedral ceiling from that kitchen all the way back to the living room spaces.

[Speaker 5] (24:28 - 24:50)
The living room being on the back side, so it's a relatively simple form. We're less than sixteen feet overall for the height of the structure. And we're using a little bit more ornamen ornamentation in the sense of kind of more classical kind of elements to it, um just because it exists on the back side of the house and it ties into kind of one of these brick older homes, um in our opinion.

[Speaker 5] (24:52 - 25:12)
Lastly just a couple of perspectives of what it would look like just to kind of give you a better understanding. Um you know if this is the existing from the front you see in front of the garage, the entry as you would walk in, the covered porch, the new entry kind of portico as you gives kind of a presence to the front door and then the access point into the ADU.

[Speaker 5] (25:14 - 25:15)
And then lastly,

[Speaker 5] (25:16 - 25:18)
have one more perspective here.

[Speaker 5] (25:18 - 25:33)
Um on the opposite side so as this is the attachment to that window, small breeze way, you're seeing, you know, basically the living room and the bedroom suite beyond beyond it. Uh I believe this our application here today. Um if anybody has any questions.

[Speaker 5] (25:35 - 25:36)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (25:37 - 25:37)
Thank you.

[Speaker 4] (25:37 - 25:40)
What what is the foundation gonna be for this?

[Speaker 5] (25:41 - 25:46)
It will be a crawl space foundation, it's not a full foundation, so we will go four feet below grade,

[Speaker 4] (25:46 - 25:46)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (25:46 - 25:48)
and then build on top of that. So

[Speaker 4] (25:48 - 25:49)
Just like a frost wall.

[Speaker 5] (25:49 - 25:49)
a frost wall,

[Speaker 4] (25:49 - 25:50)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (25:50 - 25:50)
that's it exactly.

[Speaker 7] (25:52 - 25:55)
So I suppose that putting that

[Speaker 7] (25:56 - 26:01)
Making the ADU in brick is probably a little cost prohibitive these days,

[Speaker 5] (26:01 - 26:01)
If

[Speaker 7] (26:01 - 26:02)
I'm guessing.

[Speaker 5] (26:02 - 26:05)
we talk about that, you know, and then we started looking at some ideas with the brick,

[Speaker 5] (26:05 - 26:13)
it just seemed that this was a nicer solution, certainly more cost effective as well. We are unfortunately under a budget, so we're spending

[Speaker 7] (26:13 - 26:13)
Everybody,

[Speaker 5] (26:13 - 26:14)
a little bit more money in

[Speaker 7] (26:14 - 26:14)
sure.

[Speaker 5] (26:14 - 26:19)
the ornamentation of those kind of corner boards and adding a little bit of dental details to it.

[Speaker 7] (26:20 - 26:24)
I'm very familiar with the house, a good friend of mine.

[Speaker 7] (26:25 - 26:29)
Many many many moons ago, in high school she grew up in that house so

[Speaker 5] (26:29 - 26:29)
Oh they're kidding.

[Speaker 7] (26:29 - 26:31)
spent a lot of time there. Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (26:31 - 26:32)
It's a beautiful spot.

[Speaker 7] (26:32 - 26:33)
Very beautiful house.

[Speaker 5] (26:34 - 26:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (26:34 - 26:51)
Um so um okay, so in terms of the A_D_U_ it has all its own, um the heat is obviously part of the same system, but it's got all its own utilities in the A_D_U_ in other words you're not running another zone off of

[Speaker 5] (26:51 - 26:52)
No, they are different.

[Speaker 7] (26:52 - 26:52)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (26:53 - 27:10)
Um, so, you know, it sounds like you've you're familiar enough with all those guidelines. Um and lighting on the property is this gonna um I'm assuming I'm assuming you're restricting the dark skies lighting that we have, even though I'm sure some walkway lighting is you're

[Speaker 5] (27:10 - 27:10)
Yeah, gonna the only lighting

[Speaker 7] (27:10 - 27:11)
want

[Speaker 5] (27:11 - 27:11)
would

[Speaker 7] (27:11 - 27:11)
some

[Speaker 5] (27:11 - 27:11)
be that like

[Speaker 7] (27:11 - 27:11)
of that.

[Speaker 5] (27:11 - 27:20)
under porch and off of the back side with the patio doors if somebody's going out to the patio at night, there'll probably be some wall sconces out there. But residential, we're not

[Speaker 5] (27:20 - 27:21)
Introducing

[Speaker 7] (27:21 - 27:21)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (27:21 - 27:22)
any other lights.

[Speaker 7] (27:22 - 27:24)
And there is a fence around the property. How

[Speaker 5] (27:24 - 27:24)
There is.

[Speaker 7] (27:24 - 27:25)
how tall is that fence?

[Speaker 1] (27:25 - 27:26)
Six feet,

[Speaker 5] (27:26 - 27:26)
It's a six

[Speaker 1] (27:26 - 27:26)
that's it. foot fence.

[Speaker 7] (27:26 - 27:27)
Six foot.

[Speaker 1] (27:28 - 27:29)
Yeah, white wood fence.

[Speaker 7] (27:29 - 27:31)
Yep, so it's been there for a while.

[Speaker 7] (27:40 - 27:45)
I mean I I guess you know I don't have any other questions about it. I think uh let's uh it's

[Speaker 7] (27:46 - 27:47)
Just from the nature of the lot,

[Speaker 7] (27:48 - 28:01)
it's a little surprising to see an ADU in the front of a building, you know, but that's where you have the land, obviously, so, you know, I get, you know, I get that that's the logical spot for it.

[Speaker 7] (28:04 - 28:11)
I don't, other than that, I don't have any, you know, I certainly don't have any issues with the concept.

[Speaker 4] (28:12 - 28:12)
There we go.

[Speaker 7] (28:14 - 28:18)
In the existing building in the back, is that a patio?

[Speaker 5] (28:19 - 28:20)
There is a little

[Speaker 1] (28:20 - 28:20)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (28:20 - 28:22)
patio out back, yes.

[Speaker 1] (28:22 - 28:27)
Yep, yeah, in that in that uh I guess that's the north corner of the lot. Yep,

[Speaker 7] (28:27 - 28:27)
North.

[Speaker 1] (28:27 - 28:28)
in the back corner.

[Speaker 7] (28:28 - 28:30)
Okay, northeast.

[Speaker 7] (28:30 - 28:32)
Is that a a stone wall or something?

[Speaker 1] (28:32 - 28:33)
There's a stone wall. Yep.

[Speaker 1] (28:35 - 28:38)
It's about 20 inches tall.

[Speaker 1] (28:39 - 28:40)
Maybe 24.

[Speaker 4] (28:44 - 28:47)
Have neighbours weighed in at all? Is it aware of the plans? Or

[Speaker 1] (28:48 - 28:50)
Uh we haven't heard anything, I mean

[Speaker 4] (28:50 - 28:52)
Okay. Aside from these meetings, yes.

[Speaker 1] (28:53 - 28:59)
Yeah, we have I mean we have have spoken to a handful of neighbours since the notifications went out and no commentary raised. So

[Speaker 8] (29:00 - 29:09)
We did have um one person stop by town hall um and we printed out the plans and they took a look, but they didn't have any comments they wanted to put on the public record.

[Speaker 4] (29:09 - 29:09)
Okay.

[Speaker 9] (29:09 - 29:10)
Perfect.

[Speaker 5] (29:10 - 29:10)
Thanks.

[Speaker 4] (29:10 - 29:10)
Thank you.

[Speaker 7] (29:11 - 29:21)
And the patio um that you put the little courtyard, are those um permeable pavers? In other words, are you know they're able to

[Speaker 7] (29:21 - 29:22)
Two.

[Speaker 5] (29:22 - 29:33)
If not hadn't gone to that calculation right now, it's m it's impervious in in any calculations that we have there. Um at this point in time we hadn't really selected stone and things of that nature.

[Speaker 7] (29:33 - 29:34)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (29:34 - 29:34)
But

[Speaker 7] (29:35 - 29:37)
Well you're not in a flood zone so that's good.

[Speaker 5] (29:37 - 29:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (29:37 - 29:48)
Um and it so uh out of the green space that remains, which is you have some front lawn space and some space around the back, you're saying that you still meet all of the

[Speaker 5] (29:48 - 29:49)
That's correct.

[Speaker 5] (29:49 - 29:49)
Correct.

[Speaker 7] (29:49 - 29:49)
all of the

[Speaker 1] (29:49 - 29:52)
all of the um the open space requirements.

[Speaker 2] (29:52 - 29:52)
That's correct.

[Speaker 1] (29:55 - 30:05)
And I know that um that Rich mentioned uh the distance between the shed and the A_D_U_ and do you confirm

[Speaker 2] (30:05 - 30:05)
They don't rate

[Speaker 1] (30:05 - 30:05)
that

[Speaker 2] (30:05 - 30:05)
it

[Speaker 1] (30:05 - 30:05)
that's

[Speaker 2] (30:05 - 30:06)
as a requirement.

[Speaker 1] (30:06 - 30:06)
about

[Speaker 2] (30:06 - 30:07)
I think it was was it fifteen feet?

[Speaker 3] (30:07 - 30:08)
You said it was ten and you

[Speaker 2] (30:08 - 30:09)
guys Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (30:09 - 30:09)
are twelve.

[Speaker 2] (30:09 - 30:09)
Or twelve.

[Speaker 4] (30:09 - 30:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (30:09 - 30:10)
But

[Speaker 2] (30:10 - 30:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (30:10 - 30:10)
then

[Speaker 4] (30:10 - 30:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (30:10 - 30:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (30:10 - 30:11)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (30:12 - 30:12)
Meet that criteria.

[Speaker 1] (30:13 - 30:13)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (30:15 - 30:39)
I have a couple I have a a handful of questions. Um I really like the plan. I think some some great thought in how that whole thing is coming together and I think it's working it's working well, um the space, the scale of it um and the usage and circulation makes great sense to me. A couple questions and it's it's hard uh you saw me doing my

[Speaker 5] (30:39 - 30:48)
trace on there. Um the roof pitch being different than the roof pitch on the house um I think is not like the the house itself

[Speaker 5] (30:49 - 31:05)
I would sort of qualify it as a uh a colonial revival of a very certain period uh where they were influenced by modernism and they came at this with a very clean box of brick and then the details came in on the white trim.

[Speaker 5] (31:05 - 31:16)
Um and then the depth of the eave and the roof pitch was the nod towards the modernism um that was happening and the decorative elements have

[Speaker 5] (31:16 - 31:22)
happened in the the detail around the door so it was it was that interesting transitional time on it.

[Speaker 5] (31:22 - 31:43)
Um was there any consideration to matching roof lines so that the building felt even though the m there was a material shift that the building felt that there was a stronger relationship. The other piece that I wanna build on that question is was there any consideration of actually hipping it um so that again you had these the you've got this

[Speaker 5] (31:43 - 31:52)
this repetitive hip roof that's happening all over it, and then all of a sudden there's a a big departure. So I'm I'm trying to sort of understand what the goal is.

[Speaker 2] (31:53 - 32:09)
I appreciate that. You know, from from my perspective, I feel that this building is kind of an up-building to the brick house. So I didn't want to necessarily match the brick and I wanted it to be a secondary building. It's only sixteen feet tall, we were trying to maintain a relatively low kind of profile.

[Speaker 2] (32:10 - 32:19)
The use of hips, we are using hips, and we're gabling in areas that I felt I wanted to have cathedral ceilings and take advantage of the opportunity for the cathedral ceilings to punch in a higher window.

[Speaker 2] (32:20 - 32:25)
These are small units, so anything I can do to make it feel a little bit larger than it is, thus the need for,

[Speaker 2] (32:25 - 32:28)
in my opinion, to do some of these cathedral ceiling spaces.

[Speaker 2] (32:28 - 32:36)
And it's also a place that I can adorn it with a little bit of ornamentation. The front entry is really adorned. It has a lot of, like, kind of nice detail to it.

[Speaker 2] (32:36 - 32:55)
We are taking that off as we add our covered porch to it. Albeit I'm putting back a portico to it, um in my mind it felt like a good idea to give it a little bit of sparkle on the boards and some of the eave lines and the gables that we're creating in my mind made sense based off of the programme.

[Speaker 5] (33:02 - 33:03)
The um

[Speaker 5] (33:04 - 33:12)
The other question I had is the relative the relationship between the windows on it versus I know that you have a kitchen counter so you've

[Speaker 2] (33:12 - 33:12)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (33:12 - 33:27)
you have a raised uh sill there. Um but I'm sort of noticing the ground floor windows on the house tend to drop a lot lower um on the main house these are all like in this elevation here.

[Speaker 5] (33:28 - 33:48)
Um, it it does, it does feel sort of foreign um instead of, you know, I I understand that it's an out building um but there's such a huge shift in materiality for the design to shift to is a little bit jarring um from my perspective, but um, you know,

[Speaker 5] (33:48 - 33:53)
that is that is where my questions lay because

[Speaker 5] (33:54 - 34:12)
The uh the intent of the original house is so strict of detail to then have so much detail on this um on this unit that's in the front yard, it does start almost feeling like a subdivision versus uh an ex something that's annexed and um added.

[Speaker 5] (34:14 - 34:16)
But y when it comes to the

[Speaker 5] (34:17 - 34:27)
the interior intent, I can definitely see that. But the pitch of the roof does tend to make it taller um because it's a a steeper

[Speaker 5] (34:28 - 34:30)
a steeper roof.

[Speaker 5] (34:30 - 34:38)
And you can you can actually see that hipping on the garage does read higher just because of the of the dimensional aspect of.

[Speaker 2] (34:40 - 34:46)
You could see it probably the length that I'm using the between the breezeway, where I brought the roof slope down there

[Speaker 5] (34:46 - 34:46)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (34:46 - 34:53)
so that I could really make a lower kind of connection form to the main body of the house on purpose.

[Speaker 5] (34:53 - 34:54)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (34:55 - 34:56)
It's

[Speaker 2] (35:02 - 35:04)
It's probably exaggerated because it's so small,

[Speaker 2] (35:05 - 35:08)
right. I think about sixteen feet in height, you know, interiors are gonna be.

[Speaker 2] (35:09 - 35:11)
Twelve and a half feet, which is.

[Speaker 5] (35:11 - 35:11)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (35:13 - 35:15)
I can't jump anymore, but it was a day I could jump,

[Speaker 1] (35:15 - 35:15)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (35:15 - 35:16)
but I don't think I was a ball player.

[Speaker 5] (35:17 - 35:18)
That day never hit me.

[Speaker 1] (35:19 - 35:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (35:21 - 35:28)
With the open space, are you just gonna be digging up the driveway where it would have, where it currently goes and replacing that with grass, that's right?

[Speaker 2] (35:28 - 35:28)
That's correct, yes.

[Speaker 6] (35:28 - 35:29)
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2] (35:29 - 35:29)
Yes.

[Speaker 6] (35:29 - 35:36)
Um and then you'll be adding the plantings that are shown around the A_D_U_ in this? I don't remember.

[Speaker 2] (35:36 - 35:38)
Those plantings are us.

[Speaker 2] (35:38 - 35:42)
playing architect, we're gonna actually have a landscape architect who's gonna do a much better job than

[Speaker 1] (35:42 - 35:42)
See

[Speaker 2] (35:42 - 35:43)
we laymen, do.

[Speaker 1] (35:43 - 35:43)
you make it better.

[Speaker 2] (35:43 - 35:45)
Um yeah, um so

[Speaker 1] (35:45 - 35:54)
That's I and I think actually if it were to wrap the like once they start to fill in with the landscaping and it starts to grow it's gonna hide some of the stark whiteness I think,

[Speaker 5] (35:54 - 35:54)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (35:54 - 35:54)
you know, the

[Speaker 1] (35:55 - 36:00)
I know it's it this is hard for me because I it's a noble reason to have something like

[Speaker 7] (36:00 - 36:00)
All

[Speaker 1] (36:00 - 36:00)
that.

[Speaker 7] (36:00 - 36:01)
right.

[Speaker 1] (36:01 - 36:23)
But when you start to think of a precedent where every brick house in town like wait this happened in my neighborhood too it's like complete shock of style difference to add an ADU but it was for a very noble reason and it was understandable and it worked well on the inside and but it's a it's and it's it's the bylaw like we can do this it's just how do you make it not look like a tack on.

[Speaker 1] (36:26 - 36:27)
I don't know.

[Speaker 5] (36:28 - 36:31)
I mean, if I can just address that. So I'm a real estate developer,

[Speaker 5] (36:31 - 36:36)
commercial real estate developer. So Craig and I spent a lot of time focused on doing the best we could here.

[Speaker 5] (36:37 - 36:40)
If I had a different shaped lot or if you're if the bylaws worked differently,

[Speaker 5] (36:40 - 36:42)
this would look different.

[Speaker 5] (36:43 - 36:44)
We do have a budget.

[Speaker 8] (36:44 - 36:51)
I actually think frankly we d we did some study on what a brick edition would look like and it would look a lot heavier and a lot more imposing.

[Speaker 8] (36:52 - 36:53)
So um

[Speaker 9] (36:53 - 36:55)
And the m and the brick wouldn't mat, I mean it would harder harder

[Speaker 8] (36:55 - 36:55)
it would right,

[Speaker 9] (36:55 - 36:55)
match

[Speaker 8] (36:55 - 36:55)
it would be

[Speaker 9] (36:55 - 36:55)
the rest.

[Speaker 6] (36:55 - 36:56)
There

[Speaker 8] (36:56 - 36:56)
this nineteen forty one

[Speaker 1] (36:56 - 36:57)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (36:57 - 36:57)
brick,

[Speaker 1] (36:57 - 36:57)
yeah.

[Speaker 8] (36:57 - 36:59)
a twenty twenty six brick would look very different.

[Speaker 9] (36:59 - 36:59)
You're right.

[Speaker 8] (36:59 - 37:00)
Um so

[Speaker 5] (37:00 - 37:01)
Yeah, that's deadly.

[Speaker 1] (37:02 - 37:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (37:02 - 37:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (37:02 - 37:09)
Yeah, so we're I will say you know the garage door is a big white door, like there's a lot of white on the front of the building already.

[Speaker 8] (37:11 - 37:15)
We were very intentional with what we designed here, and obviously this is a schematic level of design.

[Speaker 1] (37:15 - 37:16)
Yeah, of

[Speaker 8] (37:16 - 37:28)
But we were very intentional here to ensure that the dental moulding moulding carried through, that a lot of the I'll say period details for lack of better term are complementary um because

[Speaker 8] (37:29 - 37:32)
I care about what this is gonna look like.

[Speaker 1] (37:32 - 37:32)
course.

[Speaker 8] (37:32 - 37:33)
You

[Speaker 2] (37:33 - 37:33)
Here.

[Speaker 8] (37:33 - 37:38)
know, this is all my plan to, you know, live in for potentially the rest of my life. So um

[Speaker 9] (37:39 - 37:44)
In the front side, the courtyard side is is nice, because it it anchors the garage

[Speaker 1] (37:44 - 37:44)
Yep.

[Speaker 9] (37:44 - 37:48)
form, you know, it creates a nice balance to that.

[Speaker 8] (37:49 - 37:53)
And our hope is, you know, we spent some time looking at I mean again,

[Speaker 8] (37:53 - 38:00)
having two front yard setbacks to deal with, right, makes it challenging the original design when we

[Speaker 8] (38:01 - 38:20)
Sort of thought about potentially having it be a side yard set back there, which obviously is not zoning compliant. Um that was some of the first feedback that we got from Krista, so thank you for that. Um you know we were originally thinking come off the side and make it feel a little more symmetrical, which certainly in my brain I would have liked. Um but just kinda working within what

[Speaker 8] (38:20 - 38:25)
We have here fortunate to have the space that we don't need to seek any kind of variance and

[Speaker 9] (38:25 - 38:25)
Great.

[Speaker 8] (38:25 - 38:31)
um you know for that reason uh have the design that that uh is in front of you guys.

[Speaker 6] (38:31 - 38:48)
Yeah, I mean I think the design looks great and you know I just wanna keep in mind that you know our our obligation here is to minimise, you know, departure from the character in the vicinity. And I know that this street has a wide varie I mean I don't think there's any two houses that look the same on

[Speaker 5] (38:48 - 38:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (38:48 - 38:48)
your street

[Speaker 9] (38:48 - 38:49)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (38:49 - 38:50)
or coming down the other way.

[Speaker 6] (38:51 - 38:55)
And there's a house on Philips that actually I think is somewhat similar that's a

[Speaker 6] (38:56 - 39:12)
older brick house that added on um I mean the unit has been there since I've lived in Swampscott. I don't know if anybody knows the house that I'm talking about. But I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. But um I think it looks pretty similar, and it's it's you know with the landscape and everything, it's coming in, that was just part of the neighbourhood, so

[Speaker 10] (39:14 - 39:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (39:16 - 39:21)
I just add the other thing from a landscaping perspective that doesn't really show up on that,

[Speaker 8] (39:21 - 39:27)
on the survey but kind of around the shed, especially along Puritan Park is a you know pretty mature planted

[Speaker 9] (39:27 - 39:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (39:28 - 39:28)
bed.

[Speaker 9] (39:28 - 39:28)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (39:28 - 39:29)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (39:29 - 39:29)
The intent

[Speaker 9] (39:29 - 39:29)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (39:29 - 39:38)
is gonna be keep as much of that as we can. Um, we like you know for my father-in-law like to have a little bit of the visual block for him. Um, there are some probably

[Speaker 8] (39:39 - 39:42)
I dunno, thirty foot tall arborvitae that run right inside the

[Speaker 9] (39:42 - 39:42)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (39:42 - 39:44)
uh fence line on the corner. So the intent is to keep

[Speaker 2] (39:46 - 39:46)
That's good.

[Speaker 1] (39:46 - 39:47)
and

[Speaker 2] (39:47 - 39:47)
Good.

[Speaker 1] (39:47 - 39:53)
can be maintained. Um there'll probably be a few more that we plant on the other side of the shed right now it's a little bare on that side.

[Speaker 3] (39:53 - 39:56)
You've got quite the road dendron out there too. It's fabulous.

[Speaker 1] (39:56 - 39:58)
They're uh pretty robust.

[Speaker 4] (40:00 - 40:00)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (40:00 - 40:00)
Yes.

[Speaker 4] (40:00 - 40:03)
they love it, and they love it in town. They love they

[Speaker 3] (40:03 - 40:04)
Bill, do you have

[Speaker 4] (40:04 - 40:04)
good

[Speaker 3] (40:04 - 40:04)
anything? I

[Speaker 4] (40:04 - 40:05)
try.

[Speaker 3] (40:05 - 40:05)
don't.

[Speaker 1] (40:05 - 40:05)
I don't.

[Speaker 3] (40:05 - 40:06)
No?

[Speaker 3] (40:06 - 40:07)
Alright, I'm just gonna

[Speaker 4] (40:07 - 40:07)
I'm a

[Speaker 3] (40:08 - 40:10)
drop in for a second and open up to public comment.

[Speaker 4] (40:10 - 40:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (40:11 - 40:15)
Uh so is there anybody uh online who's here to talk on this petition?

[Speaker 3] (40:20 - 40:29)
I guess not. There has not been anybody uh to speak online and a number of hearings. So uh okay. With that um I'll bring it back to us.

[Speaker 3] (40:30 - 40:31)
I don't know if there's anything else.

[Speaker 4] (40:32 - 40:33)
I don't have anything else.

[Speaker 3] (40:33 - 40:33)
Oh.

[Speaker 4] (40:34 - 40:37)
So I can anyone else? No?

[Speaker 4] (40:39 - 40:41)
I make a motion to approve.

[Speaker 3] (40:41 - 40:43)
Sure, should we let's just run through the um

[Speaker 4] (40:43 - 40:43)
Oh,

[Speaker 3] (40:43 - 40:43)
let's

[Speaker 4] (40:43 - 40:43)
sorry.

[Speaker 3] (40:43 - 40:44)
run through the criteria then?

[Speaker 4] (40:44 - 40:44)
Sorry.

[Speaker 3] (40:44 - 40:45)
Then I think that sounds good.

[Speaker 3] (40:46 - 40:50)
Oh, Oh, I I did I did have a quick question in uh David in your letter

[Speaker 1] (40:50 - 40:50)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (40:51 - 40:56)
I don't know if it was just that the words were left in here existing lawn and landscaping within the

[Speaker 3] (40:56 - 41:10)
the footprint of the proposed one story ADU addition, the proposed breezeway connector, the proposed covered porch and the proposed rear patio will be stripped and removed to allow for foundation oh I

[Speaker 1] (41:10 - 41:11)
Drainage

[Speaker 3] (41:11 - 41:13)
I am seeing the qualifier on it. Never mind.

[Speaker 3] (41:13 - 41:14)
I missed it. The existing lawn.

[Speaker 1] (41:15 - 41:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (41:15 - 41:16)
I was like I

[Speaker 1] (41:16 - 41:17)
Nothing's

[Speaker 3] (41:17 - 41:17)
hit

[Speaker 1] (41:17 - 41:17)
happening

[Speaker 3] (41:17 - 41:17)
the

[Speaker 1] (41:17 - 41:18)
over

[Speaker 3] (41:18 - 41:18)
stripped

[Speaker 1] (41:18 - 41:18)
here.

[Speaker 3] (41:18 - 41:23)
and removed and I was like you're stripping and removing on proposed and then I Yeah. got it.

[Speaker 3] (41:24 - 41:26)
Once I read it out loud, I think I...

[Speaker 3] (41:28 - 41:32)
Um okay, then I'll just read through the site plan special permit uh criteria.

[Speaker 3] (41:33 - 41:36)
In section five four eight zero of the bylaw.

[Speaker 4] (41:36 - 41:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (41:37 - 41:58)
Uh number one, minimise the volume of cut and fill, the number of removed trees, six inch caliper or larger, the length of removed stone walls, the area of wetland vegetation displaced, the extent of stormwater flow increase from the site, soil erosion and the threat of water and air pollution. I don't think any of this is applicable. Uh you're not removing any trees, um I guess there is some

[Speaker 3] (41:59 - 42:08)
filled sort of with the patio, but it's uh diminutive and you're keeping the overall um open space I think well within the um

[Speaker 3] (42:09 - 42:10)
requirements.

[Speaker 4] (42:10 - 42:11)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (42:11 - 42:19)
And the objective, just to be clear on on earth movement, is to keep any of the excavation on site, because there's a bit of a it's a slight grade change down

[Speaker 4] (42:19 - 42:20)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (42:20 - 42:30)
to the Puritan Park, so the objective is when we excavate, we'll you know, strip back the um curved driveway and then sort of all that fill will go in there to smooth

[Speaker 4] (42:30 - 42:30)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (42:30 - 42:31)
out and create

[Speaker 4] (42:31 - 42:31)
okay.

[Speaker 1] (42:31 - 42:32)
a level surface.

[Speaker 4] (42:33 - 42:33)
Good.

[Speaker 3] (42:33 - 42:34)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (42:34 - 42:55)
uh maximise pedestrian and vehicular safety both on site and egressing from it. Obviously there's the change to the um driveway, but I don't know that that really has an impact on pedestrian and vehicular safety, probably a little safer. Um uh number three, minimise obstruction of scenic views from publicly accessible locations.

[Speaker 3] (42:56 - 42:56)
That

[Speaker 3] (42:56 - 43:20)
I don't know if that's really applicable here. Um number four, minimise visual intrusion by controlling the visibility of parking, storage or other outdoor service areas. Um I don't think that's applicable. Um minimise glare from headlights and lighting intrusion. Number five again you're reduce shrinking the size of the driveway. So uh I think that's achieved.

[Speaker 3] (43:21 - 43:29)
Uh number six, minimize any reasonable departure from the character, materials, and scale of buildings in the vicinity as viewed from public ways and places. I think that's what we spent most of our time

[Speaker 4] (43:29 - 43:29)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (43:29 - 43:42)
talking about and uh we've gotten comfortable that you have minimized that. Um uh number seven, minimize contamination of ground water from on-site waste water disposal systems or operations on the premises.

[Speaker 3] (43:43 - 43:44)
I don't think that's applicable here.

[Speaker 3] (43:45 - 43:53)
Number eight, ensure compliance with the provisions of the zoning by-law including parking and landscaping. Um you have the back and forth with Rich, so I think we've addressed the only

[Speaker 4] (43:53 - 43:53)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (43:53 - 43:54)
uh applicable open items there.

[Speaker 5] (43:54 - 43:58)
Uh all parking can still be accommodated on site, there's no street street parking as a result.

[Speaker 1] (43:58 - 43:59)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (43:59 - 43:59)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (43:59 - 44:02)
Yeah, we're expanding the driveway in front of the

[Speaker 5] (44:02 - 44:02)
Got it.

[Speaker 1] (44:02 - 44:02)
garage

[Speaker 5] (44:02 - 44:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (44:03 - 44:04)
to provide three, you know,

[Speaker 5] (44:04 - 44:04)
Spots.

[Speaker 1] (44:04 - 44:05)
three across.

[Speaker 5] (44:05 - 44:05)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (44:05 - 44:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (44:07 - 44:11)
Uh number nine, minimise adverse traffic impact of the proposed project.

[Speaker 3] (44:12 - 44:28)
not really applicable here and number ten, uh minimise uh the hazard of coastal flooding, taking into account the effects of long-term sea level rise. Uh again, there's a small change in the amount of open space so

[Speaker 4] (44:28 - 44:28)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (44:28 - 44:29)
not uh so applicable here.

[Speaker 3] (44:32 - 44:34)
Uh I guess with that, is there, do I have a motion?

[Speaker 4] (44:36 - 44:39)
Um I'll make a motion to approve um

[Speaker 4] (44:40 - 44:46)
The application for an ADU at Ken Puritan Park,

[Speaker 4] (44:46 - 44:49)
application number I don't know,

[Speaker 3] (44:49 - 44:51)
2609.

[Speaker 4] (44:51 - 44:52)
2609.

[Speaker 4] (44:56 - 44:57)
That's it.

[Speaker 3] (44:57 - 44:59)
All right. Is there a second?

[Speaker 6] (45:00 - 45:00)
I second.

[Speaker 3] (45:00 - 45:02)
All right. All those in favor?

[Speaker 5] (45:02 - 45:03)
Aye.

[Speaker 3] (45:04 - 45:05)
Alright, so moved.

[Speaker 1] (45:05 - 45:06)
Thank you very much for your

[Speaker 7] (45:06 - 45:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (45:06 - 45:06)
work.

[Speaker 4] (45:06 - 45:06)
Good luck.

[Speaker 1] (45:06 - 45:07)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (45:07 - 45:07)
Good luck.

[Speaker 1] (45:07 - 45:08)
Thank you for your time. Yeah, I appreciate it.

[Speaker 4] (45:08 - 45:09)
Good luck with all that.

[Speaker 3] (45:18 - 45:19)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (45:21 - 45:25)
Um moving on to the next item on the agenda.

[Speaker 3] (45:26 - 45:30)
Uh so Krista prepared uh helpful um

[Speaker 3] (45:32 - 45:35)
happy year for our discussion to sort of

[Speaker 3] (45:36 - 45:36)
um

[Speaker 3] (45:38 - 45:42)
continue what we spoke about at the last hearing uh

[Speaker 4] (45:42 - 45:42)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (45:42 - 45:56)
around you know preserving ground floor commercial space within mixed-use buildings. So we were thinking that we would just have in, you know, a discussion amongst ourselves uh to continue our last discussion and also discuss a few other

[Speaker 3] (45:57 - 46:03)
items that uh Kristen noted in here. Maybe Kristen, could you give us a little run-through?

[Speaker 8] (46:03 - 46:06)
Yeah, absolutely. So I can run through presentation um

[Speaker 3] (46:06 - 46:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (46:06 - 46:13)
and get into our discussion topics. So um originally

[Speaker 8] (46:13 - 46:14)
On the agenda,

[Speaker 8] (46:14 - 46:23)
it's expansion upon the discussion that we had last month on preserving existing ground floor commercial space within mixed-use buildings.

[Speaker 8] (46:24 - 46:30)
I have added a few other discussion items into this conversation for us to talk about,

[Speaker 8] (46:30 - 46:37)
expanding on that and what some 2026 by-law updates might look like.

[Speaker 8] (46:38 - 46:41)
So just a general overview.

[Speaker 8] (46:41 - 46:50)
We would start with the Humphrey Street Overlay District ground floor commercial mixed-use preservation discussion that we started at the last meeting.

[Speaker 8] (46:50 - 47:00)
A new topic to introduce would be a potential 40R smart growth zoning district surrounding the commuter rail station.

[Speaker 8] (47:00 - 47:01)
I have a few slides.

[Speaker 8] (47:02 - 47:06)
that we've put together just on what 40R is,

[Speaker 8] (47:06 - 47:11)
what the potential district could look like, and why that's a discussion that we want to have tonight.

[Speaker 8] (47:12 - 47:20)
And the third item for discussion would be the ADU in-site planned special permit discussion.

[Speaker 8] (47:20 - 47:30)
And that gets into basically the state requirement for a 900-square-foot allowed by right for ADUs, the 500-square-foot...

[Speaker 8] (47:32 - 47:53)
in the zoning bylaw that we have currently and how we would how we would want to potentially address that with a zoning change and then number four there are a few upcoming at the next meeting discussions that we might have there have been some discussions at town hall with the tree committee and they have

[Speaker 8] (47:54 - 48:01)
met with staff and have proposed a potential tree bylaw,

[Speaker 8] (48:01 - 48:16)
but first they would want to come at the July meeting and talk a little bit about the tree committee potentially reviewing some of the larger types of site plans and having comments on those landscape plans in terms of types of trees,

[Speaker 8] (48:16 - 48:17)
things like that.

[Speaker 4] (48:18 - 48:19)
Types, I'm sorry, types of

[Speaker 8] (48:19 - 48:19)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (48:19 - 48:20)
trees?

[Speaker 8] (48:20 - 48:21)
tree type and

[Speaker 8] (48:22 - 48:24)
they can they'll get into it in the presentation,

[Speaker 5] (48:24 - 48:25)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (48:25 - 48:34)
but um caliper, things like that, they could look at more in depth for those um larger developments um and provide review comments on that.

[Speaker 5] (48:34 - 48:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (48:34 - 48:42)
Would that also include subdivision? Like, 'cause I'm thinking of one one that we had a huge amount of trees removed.

[Speaker 3] (48:42 - 48:44)
That was uh

[Speaker 4] (48:44 - 48:47)
Well, that was a subdivision just because it was a street that

[Speaker 3] (48:47 - 48:47)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (48:47 - 48:48)
went right.

[Speaker 8] (48:48 - 48:49)
Potentially, yes.

[Speaker 3] (48:49 - 48:52)
But I think that that could that would be another one just beyond the

[Speaker 8] (48:52 - 48:52)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (48:52 - 48:53)
large development. But

[Speaker 4] (48:53 - 48:53)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (48:53 - 48:57)
situations like that where some guidance might have been good.

[Speaker 8] (48:57 - 48:58)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (48:58 - 49:02)
and part of the discussion can be, you know, when their review gets triggered.

[Speaker 8] (49:03 - 49:06)
But the discussions have been, you know, whenever there's removal.

[Speaker 8] (49:08 - 49:14)
like significant tree removal within a with an application. So um with the start of

[Speaker 8] (49:14 - 49:18)
adapting to online permitting. Um that's something that we can add them as a reviewer.

[Speaker 5] (49:18 - 49:18)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (49:18 - 49:29)
Um and they're aware of those timelines. You know it's only two weeks that the committee gets with our month-long cycles. So they would have to designate a reviewer it they wouldn't be able to talk about it at their board meetings unless

[Speaker 5] (49:30 - 49:30)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (49:30 - 49:32)
it was something that was going multiple months.

[Speaker 8] (49:32 - 49:39)
So um we've been in discussions with them about that, what that might look like. Um but similarly um the c the climate

[Speaker 1] (49:41 - 49:51)
I think you'll remember last summer they came before the board and had some discussions on potential reviews and they have been putting together a rubric.

[Speaker 1] (49:52 - 49:57)
So we're inviting them to come and talk about what they've been working on as well Okay, for

[Speaker 2] (49:57 - 49:57)
good.

[Speaker 1] (49:57 - 49:59)
scoring for larger developments.

[Speaker 3] (50:01 - 50:03)
Is the tree plan,

[Speaker 3] (50:03 - 50:06)
is that the same plan that they submitted several months back?

[Speaker 3] (50:07 - 50:07)
Okay,

[Speaker 1] (50:07 - 50:08)
Yes.

[Speaker 3] (50:08 - 50:09)
so that really hasn't changed

[Speaker 1] (50:09 - 50:10)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (50:10 - 50:18)
too much because a lot of that applied to private property even when no construction was happening.

[Speaker 1] (50:18 - 50:22)
Right. And so they've proposed a tree bylaw, but what we will talk about...

[Speaker 1] (50:24 - 50:27)
First is what adding them to the planning board's review might look

[Speaker 3] (50:27 - 50:27)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (50:27 - 50:29)
like for comments initially.

[Speaker 1] (50:30 - 50:32)
Um and then we can get more into the detail of the

[Speaker 3] (50:32 - 50:33)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (50:33 - 50:43)
tree bylaw, but um the first discussion will be just surrounding what would comments from the treat committee on um planning p or site plan special permit review look like

[Speaker 3] (50:43 - 50:43)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (50:43 - 50:46)
and how would their review get incorporated into the process.

[Speaker 3] (50:46 - 50:47)
Okay. Thanks.

[Speaker 3] (50:51 - 51:16)
So, um question that I have is, um you know I we keep bringing up the sign bylaw and I'm still feeling that this is something that's really important and that we're not that far away from um in the interim I've had um uh two different select board members um mention to me you know what about this type of sign and I see that kind of sign so there are you know other

[Speaker 3] (51:17 - 51:37)
sorts of things that we should be looking at as well and we also discussed that you know signage amnesty program especially along Humphrey Street to give some of those businesses that have been out of compliance for quite some time an opportunity to come back into compliance without being penalized and

[Speaker 1] (51:37 - 51:37)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (51:37 - 51:41)
perhaps getting help of some nature with

[Speaker 3] (51:42 - 51:47)
putting together, you know, new signs or removing, you know, the offending signs,

[Speaker 3] (51:47 - 51:48)
et cetera, et cetera.

[Speaker 3] (51:48 - 51:54)
So, you know, I'd like to see that happen as well. I know it keeps getting bumped out because,

[Speaker 3] (51:54 - 51:57)
you know, it's a big, it's a big bylaw.

[Speaker 3] (51:59 - 52:00)
You know, it's going to take a lot of review.

[Speaker 3] (52:00 - 52:02)
I think that we've done quite a bit already,

[Speaker 3] (52:02 - 52:03)
but there's

[Speaker 1] (52:03 - 52:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (52:03 - 52:04)
more to do.

[Speaker 3] (52:06 - 52:07)
And

[Speaker 3] (52:08 - 52:10)
There was, you know, um

[Speaker 3] (52:11 - 52:17)
Then it's the whole issue of that's something that that Ted brought up as a select board member that

[Speaker 1] (52:17 - 52:17)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (52:17 - 52:26)
um this concern about um having these, you know, zoning

[Speaker 3] (52:27 - 52:52)
um amendments come up in the fall town meeting simply because of the you know timeline that we need for public hearings and so forth but it was my understanding at our last town meeting that the decision had been made to have all the zoning bylaws come up in the fall at fall town meetings so this will be a chronic issue

[Speaker 3] (52:54 - 53:04)
Forever, if that's when we're gonna have the zoning bylaws, then we're always gonna have the hearings in the summer and there's always gonna be a lot of activity in the summer. So

[Speaker 4] (53:04 - 53:04)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (53:04 - 53:07)
either we agree to, you know

[Speaker 3] (53:08 - 53:09)
To accept

[Speaker 5] (53:09 - 53:10)
What's what's

[Speaker 3] (53:10 - 53:10)
that.

[Speaker 5] (53:10 - 53:16)
the window that those have to happen within is there a X amount of weeks before town meeting

[Speaker 1] (53:16 - 53:16)
Yes.

[Speaker 5] (53:16 - 53:17)
not over

[Speaker 3] (53:17 - 53:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (53:18 - 53:19)
maximum minimum

[Speaker 1] (53:20 - 53:29)
There's a general timeline right now. I can pull it up, but the warrants opens in September potentially. And so we will need to have.

[Speaker 1] (53:31 - 53:39)
you know, what we are proposing nailed down by then. You could make some slight changes between then, but you need to have it nailed down basically by September.

[Speaker 3] (53:39 - 53:41)
But essentially our public hearings

[Speaker 1] (53:41 - 53:41)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (53:41 - 53:45)
on those, the ones that we need to schedule, we need to

[Speaker 1] (53:45 - 53:45)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (53:45 - 53:46)
And schedule and

[Speaker 3] (53:46 - 53:48)
meetings X number of weeks apart.

[Speaker 1] (53:50 - 53:53)
and we are work working

[Speaker 1] (53:52 - 53:55)
on the timeline with the Town Administrator's office, and

[Speaker 3] (53:55 - 53:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (53:55 - 54:00)
thus like part to make sure we're working backwards right to make sure that we know all of the what all of those deadlines are

[Speaker 3] (54:00 - 54:00)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (54:00 - 54:03)
so that all of the engagement does get done because

[Speaker 1] (54:05 - 54:08)
The last thing we want to do is not inform the public of

[Speaker 3] (54:08 - 54:08)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (54:08 - 54:09)
these items that are being passed.

[Speaker 1] (54:09 - 54:12)
So we do want to engage as much as possible

[Speaker 3] (54:12 - 54:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (54:12 - 54:14)
and make sure that we're meeting all of those deadlines.

[Speaker 1] (54:15 - 54:17)
And they do come up a lot earlier than

[Speaker 3] (54:17 - 54:18)
They do.

[Speaker 1] (54:18 - 54:18)
you think.

[Speaker 3] (54:18 - 54:19)
They do.

[Speaker 3] (54:19 - 54:25)
And that's, you know, my feeling is I'm fine with if they want to bump stuff into the falls and just do all the zoning then.

[Speaker 3] (54:26 - 54:28)
You know, that's fine,

[Speaker 1] (54:28 - 54:28)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (54:28 - 54:31)
but you know understand that this is what it's going to look like.

[Speaker 1] (54:31 - 54:38)
And if it helps for next meeting, I can come with the schedule.

[Speaker 3] (54:38 - 54:41)
Yeah, I think we should all just be familiar with it

[Speaker 6] (54:41 - 54:41)
Do

[Speaker 3] (54:41 - 54:41)
anyway.

[Speaker 6] (54:41 - 54:46)
we have a date for that fall meeting yet? I know that that fluctuates sometimes when that,

[Speaker 6] (54:46 - 54:47)
could they push it

[Speaker 3] (54:47 - 54:47)
Well

[Speaker 6] (54:47 - 54:47)
later?

[Speaker 3] (54:47 - 54:48)
fall, we call it fall,

[Speaker 1] (54:48 - 54:48)
December.

[Speaker 3] (54:48 - 54:49)
sometimes it's

[Speaker 6] (54:49 - 54:49)
Yeah,

[Speaker 3] (54:49 - 54:50)
in December.

[Speaker 6] (54:50 - 54:51)
sometimes it's almost December.

[Speaker 1] (54:52 - 54:53)
I'm not sure the exact date right now,

[Speaker 1] (54:54 - 54:54)
but.

[Speaker 1] (54:54 - 54:57)
Um we've been calling it the December town meeting.

[Speaker 6] (54:57 - 54:57)
So Tuck

[Speaker 1] (54:57 - 55:00)
Ted is on the call he might be able to answer this for us.

[Speaker 3] (55:00 - 55:00)
Yeah, they probably

[Speaker 6] (55:00 - 55:01)
we don't

[Speaker 3] (55:01 - 55:01)
answer.

[Speaker 6] (55:01 - 55:02)
care. So just tell us what

[Speaker 7] (55:02 - 55:03)
So it's set for December

[Speaker 6] (55:03 - 55:04)
the agenda

[Speaker 7] (55:04 - 55:04)
7th.

[Speaker 3] (55:04 - 55:05)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (55:05 - 55:06)
Okay, perfect.

[Speaker 3] (55:06 - 55:06)
Thanks,

[Speaker 7] (55:06 - 55:06)
And

[Speaker 3] (55:06 - 55:07)
Ted.

[Speaker 7] (55:07 - 55:16)
the no problem, the timelines that we were presented at the meeting last week was, I believe, final wart language was approved by the select board on the first.

[Speaker 7] (55:17 - 55:18)
Wednesday in October.

[Speaker 7] (55:20 - 55:23)
So you would really have to submit your warrant articles by,

[Speaker 7] (55:23 - 55:25)
I think it was the third Wednesday in September.

[Speaker 3] (55:25 - 55:25)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (55:25 - 55:27)
Or I'm sorry, the second Wednesday in September.

[Speaker 7] (55:27 - 55:31)
So you'd have to do all the work really by the second week of September.

[Speaker 3] (55:31 - 55:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (55:32 - 55:32)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (55:32 - 55:38)
And can we build those hearings into our scheduled meetings or are they standalone?

[Speaker 3] (55:38 - 55:41)
We could if they're usually standalone.

[Speaker 3] (55:41 - 55:45)
And the reason is that unless it's a really small article,

[Speaker 3] (55:45 - 55:46)
you know, it's...

[Speaker 3] (55:47 - 55:54)
We've done it with like just like grammatical changes and stuff like that but typically we've had separate hearings yeah and

[Speaker 5] (55:54 - 55:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (55:55 - 55:58)
We will plan for separate hearings and we'll plan to

[Speaker 3] (55:58 - 55:59)
I think you know I do think

[Speaker 1] (55:59 - 55:59)
as much

[Speaker 3] (55:59 - 55:59)
Ted's

[Speaker 1] (55:59 - 56:00)
as possible.

[Speaker 3] (56:00 - 56:14)
comment to us was that you know your hearing is going to be end up being in the summer and that's understood I get it but you know that's that will be this the case for all the zoning then because

[Speaker 3] (56:15 - 56:17)
You know, that's the way the schedule lays out.

[Speaker 7] (56:19 - 56:23)
I could provide you some context that I think might help shape your conversation around it.

[Speaker 3] (56:23 - 56:23)
Sure.

[Speaker 7] (56:23 - 56:25)
The presentation,

[Speaker 7] (56:25 - 56:27)
and I just want to preface this,

[Speaker 7] (56:27 - 56:28)
good to see you all.

[Speaker 7] (56:28 - 56:30)
I'm attending as your new liaison,

[Speaker 7] (56:30 - 56:31)
so if I can be helpful,

[Speaker 7] (56:31 - 56:32)
let me know.

[Speaker 7] (56:32 - 56:32)
Otherwise,

[Speaker 7] (56:32 - 56:36)
I'm going to kind of sit back and let you do the great work that you all do.

[Speaker 7] (56:38 - 56:43)
This schedule was presented to us at the last select board meeting and asked for our...

[Speaker 7] (56:44 - 57:10)
kind of awareness and consent on it we agreed to table it so that we could have a further conversation with the planning board about how the timeline might impact a your board's ability to really get this done over the summer right because those timelines are not ideal so we didn't vote on this we kind of tabled it until some of these conversations with your board could be had but the real kind of concern that some of us brought up was you know if you have to have final

[Speaker 7] (57:11 - 57:40)
warrant language to us by middle of September that leaves you you know really June July and August to do all the work and get all the public engagement around getting the final language passed so you know if that's something your board is comfortable with and Krista and Marzi are supportive of that's that's great I just wanted to make sure you all have that understanding before the select board really voted to approve kind of this this layout and it wasn't fixed I mean if there's big things that come up that need to be addressed at a springtown meeting there's always the ability to do that

[Speaker 7] (57:40 - 57:46)
But that comes with its own perception issues of, you know, when people get used to doing zoning in the fall,

[Speaker 7] (57:46 - 57:47)
then they tune it to the spring,

[Speaker 7] (57:47 - 57:49)
there's other ramifications that that can have.

[Speaker 3] (57:49 - 57:52)
Yeah. What was the impetus, Ted,

[Speaker 3] (57:52 - 57:54)
for splitting up that?

[Speaker 3] (57:54 - 57:57)
I mean, was it a timing issue?

[Speaker 3] (57:57 - 57:59)
Because it used to be like,

[Speaker 3] (57:59 - 58:08)
you know, the fall town meeting was to nail down financial things that we didn't have a chance to do at other times during the year.

[Speaker 3] (58:08 - 58:14)
And now it seems like that's, you know, just a routine second meeting,

[Speaker 3] (58:14 - 58:21)
but I'm just wondering what was the impetus for pushing all the zoning articles to the fall or winter,

[Speaker 3] (58:21 - 58:21)
whatever

[Speaker 7] (58:21 - 58:21)
I

[Speaker 3] (58:21 - 58:22)
it is.

[Speaker 7] (58:22 - 58:24)
think the goal, right,

[Speaker 7] (58:24 - 58:25)
I think the goal was to divide and conquer.

[Speaker 7] (58:26 - 58:32)
So to make spring count meetings really more financially focused and hopefully no longer than two nights and to give a little more substance to the.

[Speaker 7] (58:33 - 58:48)
winter town meeting the fall town meeting beyond just the approval of you know final end of year transfers that need to be made so it's really to make each one be able to stand on its own legs but have neither one be you know the three night marathon town meetings that I'm sure we all loathe to some degree

[Speaker 3] (58:49 - 58:51)
yeah and

[Speaker 3] (58:54 - 58:58)
do you have personally do you have an opinion on this the schedule for

[Speaker 3] (58:59 - 59:00)
I know you've had voice,

[Speaker 3] (59:00 - 59:02)
some level of concern,

[Speaker 3] (59:02 - 59:03)
but I'm just,

[Speaker 3] (59:03 - 59:11)
you know, I don't know if you're comfortable even talking about it at this point since you guys are still in process of figuring things out.

[Speaker 7] (59:12 - 59:14)
Just from my perspective,

[Speaker 7] (59:14 - 59:18)
I mean, for routine zoning changes,

[Speaker 7] (59:18 - 59:21)
that's easy to do if you're changing,

[Speaker 7] (59:21 - 59:22)
you know, a number here,

[Speaker 7] (59:22 - 59:23)
grammatical stuff there,

[Speaker 7] (59:23 - 59:25)
minor setback changes.

[Speaker 7] (59:26 - 59:34)
more routine but for you know i recall us you know doing 3a which we did you know great especially in comparison to some of our neighboring towns

[Speaker 1] (59:41 - 59:51)
I don't I don't think it would be even I don't think we could even attempt to do that type of significant zoning change or public engagement that is required when you do that over the summer.

[Speaker 1] (59:51 - 59:53)
I just don't think there's capacity from.

[Speaker 1] (59:54 - 1:00:04)
In my experience, there wouldn't have been capacity on the board to undertake the work to get there or the engagement from the community to get the level of understanding that they would need to be supportive of some of the zoning changes that we would require.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:05 - 1:00:06)
That 3A is a big topic.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:06 - 1:00:08)
It's kind of the utmost extreme,

[Speaker 1] (1:00:09 - 1:00:10)
but you're talking about,

[Speaker 1] (1:00:10 - 1:00:12)
I think you brought up a 40R tonight.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:12 - 1:00:16)
Those are some big kind of visionary zoning changes that I would envision.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:17 - 1:00:24)
would need a lot of planning and work to get done that realistically over the summer might be more difficult to do.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:24 - 1:00:25)
So that's.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:26 - 1:00:27)
Kind of where I think but but again,

[Speaker 1] (1:00:27 - 1:00:33)
I am no longer on the planning board So that's just what from my experience I would I would have envisioned being the trouble spots

[Speaker 2] (1:00:34 - 1:00:35)
Right. Now,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:35 - 1:00:35)
good point,

[Speaker 2] (1:00:35 - 1:00:36)
obviously.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:36 - 1:00:38)
And thank you for attending.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:38 - 1:00:46)
I don't recall the last time we had a liaison attend one of our meetings. So thank you.

[Speaker 2] (1:00:47 - 1:00:48)
Just saying.

[Speaker 1] (1:00:48 - 1:00:49)
Old habits die hard

[Speaker 3] (1:00:50 - 1:00:52)
Thank you and thank you for your input.

[Speaker 3] (1:00:52 - 1:01:01)
But I will speak a little bit along the lines of timeline and everything like that. Obviously everything on this list is a lot. It would be a lot to pass everything.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:01 - 1:01:09)
Part of the discussions that we are having will be how do we want to move forward with, you know, what initiatives.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:11 - 1:01:14)
But I will also say that later this week on Wednesday,

[Speaker 3] (1:01:15 - 1:01:21)
Marzi and I have a meeting with MAPC. We weren't selected for the technical assistance that we applied for.

[Speaker 3] (1:01:21 - 1:01:39)
We applied for multiple applications, including the signed bylaw review earlier this year, but we have a meeting with them to go over this list again to see if they are able to provide some technical assistance this year as part of the budget that we have for consulting.

[Speaker 4] (1:01:41 - 1:02:08)
um this you know in July that kicks in um that will renew with the new budget um to see if they're able to provide us with technical assistance because this is a really big list just for staff capacity to tackle you know over the next few months but um potentially you know there could be the option to have some minor you know technical assistance from MAPC on some of these initiatives as well so we're going to go over those.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:08 - 1:02:09)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:02:11 - 1:02:18)
Regarding the commuter rail 40R SMART growth zoning or expansion of 3A overlay,

[Speaker 2] (1:02:18 - 1:02:28)
I'm sure Marzi told you that we did attempt a 40R district over the train station about,

[Speaker 2] (1:02:28 - 1:02:30)
oh gosh,

[Speaker 2] (1:02:30 - 1:02:34)
I'm going to say six years ago, I think it was just pre-COVID,

[Speaker 2] (1:02:34 - 1:02:36)
and it

[Speaker 2] (1:02:37 - 1:02:54)
What started as a really well-intended transit-oriented 40-yard district quickly got the town administrator at the time got very involved,

[Speaker 2] (1:02:55 - 1:02:57)
some of the select board members got very involved,

[Speaker 2] (1:02:57 - 1:03:02)
and the mission creep ended up going down Borough Street and up Essex Street.

[Speaker 2] (1:03:04 - 1:03:08)
You know, the thing just blew up. So there's, you know, there's that.

[Speaker 2] (1:03:08 - 1:03:09)
But there's also,

[Speaker 2] (1:03:09 - 1:03:14)
and we can obviously discuss this. This is why it's Yeah. on here,

[Speaker 2] (1:03:14 - 1:03:15)
New York.

[Speaker 2] (1:03:15 - 1:03:21)
You know, my opinion is that we'd probably have an easier time adding a 3A.

[Speaker 2] (1:03:21 - 1:03:22)
We need five acres,

[Speaker 2] (1:03:22 - 1:03:24)
of course, but we could.

[Speaker 2] (1:03:25 - 1:03:27)
It might be easier for us to do that.

[Speaker 4] (1:03:27 - 1:03:34)
Well, something I did, and that's the way that it was worded, you know, 3A or 40R,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:34 - 1:03:51)
you know, there are the benefits to 40R with the incentives from the state with the payments for adopting the district and then density bonus payments as units get built. But we did take a look.

[Speaker 4] (1:03:52 - 1:03:54)
If you can see it visible there,

[Speaker 4] (1:03:54 - 1:04:05)
it's also in the packet of potentially what that could look like, but this district shown in blue also abuts the current 3A overlay,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:06 - 1:04:06)
right?

[Speaker 4] (1:04:06 - 1:04:07)
So we

[Speaker 4] (1:04:10 - 1:04:12)
could look at it as a 40R potentially,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:12 - 1:04:12)
or...

[Speaker 4] (1:04:13 - 1:04:14)
You know,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:14 - 1:04:14)
a three,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:14 - 1:04:17)
an expansion of the existing 3A potentially,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:17 - 1:04:22)
you know, there are ways to, there are different ways to look at it. And that's part of what this discussion is,

[Speaker 2] (1:04:22 - 1:04:22)
Hmm.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:22 - 1:04:24)
is,

[Speaker 4] (1:04:24 - 1:04:39)
you know, this could be a 40R over the train station. There are a lot of reasons supporting that in terms of what 40R does and the benefits that we would get from having it be a 40R rather than just MBTA 3A.

[Speaker 2] (1:04:39 - 1:04:40)
Yeah, I understand that.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:41 - 1:04:42)
You know.

[Speaker 4] (1:04:42 - 1:05:04)
40 our districts are made for mixed use in there it's very common for them to be around commuter rail stations because that's basically one of the reasons for the over the smart growth districts for the walkable mixed use in those types of areas one interesting thing to note about this district

[Speaker 4] (1:05:06 - 1:05:21)
that's proposed right here is it covers both the housing authority sites that's where those little houses are so if the housing authority to in the future were want to redevelop those sites it could look different with more density

[Speaker 4] (1:05:23 - 1:05:38)
within whatever regulations in this overlay are right so it would allow for redevelopment of those sites in the future within whatever guidelines potentially were placed on this overlay district which could be a benefit as well

[Speaker 2] (1:05:39 - 1:05:41)
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:42 - 1:05:42)
So

[Speaker 2] (1:05:42 - 1:05:42)
Agreed.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:42 - 1:05:46)
could I just ask a couple of quick questions, mostly clarification.

[Speaker 5] (1:05:46 - 1:05:47)
So

[Speaker 5] (1:05:50 - 1:05:58)
the creep that you were talking about that that occurred the last time that was coming all the way down Beryl Street correct and

[Speaker 2] (1:05:58 - 1:06:00)
And it went up Essex a bit as well.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:00 - 1:06:00)
yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:06:00 - 1:06:00)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:00 - 1:06:11)
because of this this proposal as I see it just in looking at the map um has very little impact on fully residential neighborhoods like

[Speaker 2] (1:06:11 - 1:06:11)
Agreed.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:11 - 1:06:12)
it's sitting sitting

[Speaker 2] (1:06:12 - 1:06:12)
No,

[Speaker 2] (1:06:12 - 1:06:13)
I agree.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:13 - 1:06:13)
on

[Speaker 5] (1:06:15 - 1:06:17)
What really looks like is housing authority and

[Speaker 2] (1:06:17 - 1:06:18)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:18 - 1:06:24)
almost completely current mixed use or industrial, which

[Speaker 3] (1:06:24 - 1:06:24)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:24 - 1:06:24)
is great.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:24 - 1:06:30)
I guess the question that I have from the perspective of the 40R district is...

[Speaker 5] (1:06:32 - 1:06:39)
We did lay the 3A on top of a good portion of our industrial space,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:39 - 1:06:45)
and this is sitting on a good portion of the additional industrial

[Speaker 2] (1:06:45 - 1:06:45)
When

[Speaker 5] (1:06:45 - 1:06:45)
space,

[Speaker 2] (1:06:45 - 1:06:46)
you say industrial,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:46 - 1:06:47)
commercial

[Speaker 2] (1:06:47 - 1:06:48)
do you mean commercial zone?

[Speaker 3] (1:06:48 - 1:06:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:48 - 1:06:49)
industrial,

[Speaker 2] (1:06:49 - 1:06:49)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:49 - 1:06:50)
like we have,

[Speaker 2] (1:06:50 - 1:06:50)
industrial

[Speaker 5] (1:06:50 - 1:06:51)
but

[Speaker 2] (1:06:51 - 1:06:53)
is the quarry basically when I'm

[Speaker 5] (1:06:53 - 1:06:54)
if you,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:54 - 1:06:55)
okay,

[Speaker 5] (1:06:55 - 1:06:56)
I should be careful how I say that.

[Speaker 2] (1:06:57 - 1:06:58)
just talking about zoning regions.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:58 - 1:06:59)
Yeah, it's commercial.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:59 - 1:06:59)
It's commercial.

[Speaker 5] (1:06:59 - 1:07:00)
commercial, but it is not

[Speaker 2] (1:07:00 - 1:07:01)
Retail.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:01 - 1:07:02)
uh retail control.

[Speaker 2] (1:07:02 - 1:07:02)
Understood.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:02 - 1:07:02)
It's

[Speaker 2] (1:07:02 - 1:07:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:03 - 1:07:05)
it's much more business commercial.

[Speaker 2] (1:07:05 - 1:07:05)
Got it.

[Speaker 5] (1:07:05 - 1:07:23)
Um forty are um I'm wondering if there is going to be pushback around tax revenue or if that's something that um with it being mixed use, the hope is that it would be expanding into residential and commercial, so

[Speaker 5] (1:07:24 - 1:07:26)
we would retain and actually increase that.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:26 - 1:07:28)
Right. And that that is

[Speaker 4] (1:07:29 - 1:07:34)
You know, the purpose of 40R would be to encourage housing,

[Speaker 4] (1:07:35 - 1:07:40)
but also mixed use right in those walkable areas. So that's right by the commuter rail station that

[Speaker 5] (1:07:40 - 1:07:40)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:40 - 1:07:41)
ideally it

[Speaker 5] (1:07:41 - 1:07:41)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:41 - 1:07:41)
would

[Speaker 6] (1:07:41 - 1:07:42)
That already

[Speaker 4] (1:07:42 - 1:07:42)
be

[Speaker 6] (1:07:42 - 1:07:42)
gets

[Speaker 4] (1:07:42 - 1:07:42)
the place,

[Speaker 6] (1:07:42 - 1:07:42)
a park.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:42 - 1:07:44)
yep, for transit-oriented development.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:45 - 1:07:49)
Potentially, you know, housing that does get introduced is mixed use.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:49 - 1:07:57)
There could be lesser parking requirements because the people who would live in these areas wouldn't necessarily be car dependent because they're walking.

[Speaker 4] (1:07:57 - 1:08:00)
distance of the commuter rail station.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:00 - 1:08:14)
The thing that I'm curious about, though, is the taxation issue on it, because I think if I remember right from that time, I wasn't on the board, but I just remember in town that sometimes that can come up is that.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:15 - 1:08:19)
you know, we are such a business unfriendly location,

[Speaker 5] (1:08:20 - 1:08:31)
and do we want to think about making sure that we have have ground floor retail or ground floor commercial um built into anything, or does forty R_ restrict that?

[Speaker 4] (1:08:31 - 1:08:34)
Uh it allows us to tailor that, right? So

[Speaker 5] (1:08:34 - 1:08:34)
That's excellent.

[Speaker 3] (1:08:34 - 1:08:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:35 - 1:08:37)
for the forty R_ district um

[Speaker 4] (1:08:38 - 1:08:52)
I kinda we skipped through this so I didn't really go over this, but um part of what it allows for is you can tailor like building heights, setbacks, parking requirements, design standards, but are also like requirements for gra ground floor commercial.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:53 - 1:08:53)
Excellent.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:53 - 1:08:54)
Um so

[Speaker 5] (1:08:55 - 1:08:56)
Oh there it I'm

[Speaker 4] (1:08:56 - 1:08:56)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:08:56 - 1:08:56)
sorry, very last

[Speaker 4] (1:08:56 - 1:08:56)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (1:08:56 - 1:08:57)
bullet point,

[Speaker 4] (1:08:57 - 1:08:57)
it it's

[Speaker 5] (1:08:57 - 1:08:57)
I read it.

[Speaker 4] (1:08:57 - 1:09:00)
part of, you know, what you're able to

[Speaker 5] (1:09:00 - 1:09:00)
So I think that's

[Speaker 4] (1:09:00 - 1:09:01)
tailor

[Speaker 5] (1:09:01 - 1:09:01)
a if

[Speaker 4] (1:09:01 - 1:09:02)
to the area based

[Speaker 5] (1:09:02 - 1:09:02)
we

[Speaker 4] (1:09:02 - 1:09:02)
off of what

[Speaker 5] (1:09:02 - 1:09:04)
if we get into

[Speaker 4] (1:09:04 - 1:09:04)
the need to.

[Speaker 5] (1:09:04 - 1:09:04)
this

[Speaker 5] (1:09:05 - 1:09:29)
Tailoring it so that taxation question that can sometimes really be just a circular argument is well addressed and it's right there that if we if we did tailor it in that fashion that you know we could be increasing our housing and the commuter rail adjacencies but while also supporting business which I think is is

[Speaker 3] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
Mm

[Speaker 5] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
a topic

[Speaker 3] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:09:29 - 1:09:29)
that I

[Speaker 2] (1:09:31 - 1:09:35)
When the when the three A_ came in, was that right when the West got applied too, right around?

[Speaker 3] (1:09:35 - 1:09:37)
No, it was right after, even though

[Speaker 2] (1:09:37 - 1:09:43)
Yeah so so that was part of the feeling though. People were already feeling like it's gonna be um very dense, right

[Speaker 3] (1:09:43 - 1:09:50)
Yeah um yes and and I think when three A_ came in um, you know, it was

[Speaker 3] (1:09:51 - 1:09:56)
It wasn't focused on affordable housing. In fact, when the first,

[Speaker 3] (1:09:56 - 1:10:04)
you know, we did ours pretty early on just to, you know, to get a jump on it, but it.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:05 - 1:10:29)
it was almost like you've gotta we just need to build more, because when we build more and we create this volume, then the you know, you'll be such a we'll flood the market with with units, and that things are gonna get cheaper, which you know, history has shown us does not happen here. We just have a lot of expensive apartments and that's just a fact. Not it's not me, you know, some pulling something out of the air. That's the way it goes here.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:30 - 1:10:34)
But and you know, it also puts the burden of developing more and more more

[Speaker 3] (1:10:34 - 1:10:39)
more and more on these little tiny towns like us just because we happen to have a train line going through

[Speaker 2] (1:10:39 - 1:10:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:39 - 1:10:48)
since you know 1865. Okay anyway, but uh and forty R_ on the other hand, is is all about affordable housing.

[Speaker 2] (1:10:48 - 1:10:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:48 - 1:10:57)
And yeah, you can put some, you know, mixed use in there because that makes a neighbourhood more affordable. It can have, you know, I mean more, you know even more

[Speaker 2] (1:10:57 - 1:10:57)
Desirable,

[Speaker 3] (1:10:57 - 1:10:57)
easily desirable

[Speaker 2] (1:10:57 - 1:10:57)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:10:57 - 1:11:01)
when there are some services there and you know

[Speaker 2] (1:11:01 - 1:11:03)
Well that's what I was wondering maybe the backlash

[Speaker 2] (1:11:02 - 1:11:06)
backlash to the 3A originally was kind of this reaction to the

[Speaker 3] (1:11:06 - 1:11:10)
Yeah, it was the backlash was that it was this mandate from the state saying

[Speaker 2] (1:11:10 - 1:11:10)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:10 - 1:11:10)
Well

[Speaker 3] (1:11:10 - 1:11:10)
that we

[Speaker 1] (1:11:10 - 1:11:10)
the

[Speaker 3] (1:11:10 - 1:11:12)
had to add 2,000 housing units.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:12 - 1:11:13)
I would,

[Speaker 3] (1:11:13 - 1:11:13)
I mean

[Speaker 1] (1:11:13 - 1:11:13)
I would

[Speaker 3] (1:11:13 - 1:11:13)
that's

[Speaker 1] (1:11:13 - 1:11:13)
say

[Speaker 3] (1:11:13 - 1:11:13)
it

[Speaker 1] (1:11:13 - 1:11:23)
though that the backlash to 3A didn't fully happen because of the fact that we happen to have these zones that were very low impact to

[Speaker 2] (1:11:23 - 1:11:24)
Yeah, that didn't, that's.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:24 - 1:11:29)
do it so that even in town meeting there were four people or five people that

[Speaker 1] (1:11:29 - 1:11:33)
were against us um placing the three A_ where we were suggesting,

[Speaker 3] (1:11:33 - 1:11:34)
here. Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:11:34 - 1:11:39)
um and I think they were more in reaction to the state not

[Speaker 3] (1:11:39 - 1:11:40)
They were.

[Speaker 4] (1:11:40 - 1:11:40)
Rather than

[Speaker 3] (1:11:40 - 1:11:40)
And

[Speaker 4] (1:11:40 - 1:11:40)
us.

[Speaker 3] (1:11:40 - 1:11:55)
and the other thing was that the it the fact was and we had of course we had you know consultants that we were obliged to work with that's you that's how the state ran it you had you know consulting groups you get Bowler Engineering that worked with us on

[Speaker 3] (1:11:55 - 1:12:13)
on creating it and there is the formulas are, you know, was crazy. But the you know just what they go through to to figure out number of units and the density per acre. But um you know trying to figure out where you're going to put all those units

[Speaker 3] (1:12:14 - 1:12:18)
And we don't have any space for it. We flat out don't have space.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:18 - 1:12:28)
So the only thing we could possibly do was, you know, we have a little bit over there by the other side of Elm Place and which is that little funky little corner,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:28 - 1:12:30)
you know, going down under the bridge.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:30 - 1:12:36)
And then we had to overlay it. So it's overlaid over Crown Point, it's overlaid over part of Inn,

[Speaker 3] (1:12:36 - 1:12:38)
it's overlaid over Summit.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:38 - 1:12:41)
You know, we had to. I mean, there was no place to put it.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:42 - 1:12:53)
So could more units be built there? Probably. You'd have to bulldoze Crown Point and chances are you're not going to, there's over 400 units up there. I mean, chances are you're not going to even

[Speaker 1] (1:12:53 - 1:12:54)
And those

[Speaker 3] (1:12:54 - 1:12:54)
put

[Speaker 1] (1:12:54 - 1:12:54)
are back condos.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:54 - 1:12:56)
the number of units. Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:12:56 - 1:12:57)
No.

[Speaker 3] (1:12:57 - 1:12:57)
So,

[Speaker 1] (1:12:57 - 1:12:59)
Which which in itself is an interesting situation

[Speaker 3] (1:12:59 - 1:13:00)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:00 - 1:13:02)
because the building isn't built.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:03 - 1:13:07)
to last a hundred years the building from that period is built to last 35 years

[Speaker 3] (1:13:07 - 1:13:07)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:07 - 1:13:10)
and it's owned by how many people

[Speaker 3] (1:13:10 - 1:13:11)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:11 - 1:13:13)
so these become really complex

[Speaker 3] (1:13:13 - 1:13:13)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:13:13 - 1:13:13)
situations

[Speaker 3] (1:13:14 - 1:13:18)
So, you know, at any rate, we had no other choice of where to put stuff.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:19 - 1:13:23)
I mean, we could have, we would have had to overlay anything.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:23 - 1:13:25)
Um no matter what we did.

[Speaker 5] (1:13:25 - 1:13:28)
I think this is all sort of highlighting the the 40R like

[Speaker 2] (1:13:28 - 1:13:28)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 6] (1:13:28 - 1:13:28)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:13:28 - 1:13:39)
advantages, because three A obviously has a lot of baggage that comes along with it. Uh 40R allows us to tailor it to keep the red to keep the uh

[Speaker 2] (1:13:39 - 1:13:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:13:39 - 1:13:46)
retail or create a retail tax base, and so I th and it allows for affordable housing and market rate housing.

[Speaker 3] (1:13:46 - 1:13:46)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:13:46 - 1:13:50)
So it has all this stuff that feels very win-win if

[Speaker 3] (1:13:50 - 1:13:50)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:13:50 - 1:13:52)
you can you know overlay it and

[Speaker 5] (1:13:52 - 1:13:58)
and to your point two Angela like I wasn't here obviously when there was this mission creep or whatever but I feel

[Speaker 3] (1:13:58 - 1:13:58)
Oh,

[Speaker 5] (1:13:58 - 1:13:58)
like Crista's

[Speaker 3] (1:13:58 - 1:14:00)
I have, I have all the background.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:00 - 1:14:00)
I'm sure you do.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:00 - 1:14:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:01 - 1:14:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:01 - 1:14:06)
Yeah, but you know Crista started with this like I feel like this is like a very sensible

[Speaker 2] (1:14:06 - 1:14:06)
It's totally

[Speaker 5] (1:14:06 - 1:14:06)
uh map

[Speaker 2] (1:14:06 - 1:14:07)
sensible.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:07 - 1:14:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:07 - 1:14:08)
like if we can

[Speaker 2] (1:14:08 - 1:14:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:08 - 1:14:09)
you know

[Speaker 5] (1:14:09 - 1:14:14)
stop it from, you know, taking on that sort of expansion. I feel like it could be a real

[Speaker 7] (1:14:15 - 1:14:15)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:15 - 1:14:15)
positive.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:15 - 1:14:18)
And it's clearly directed to the train

[Speaker 7] (1:14:18 - 1:14:18)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:18 - 1:14:18)
line.

[Speaker 5] (1:14:18 - 1:14:18)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (1:14:18 - 1:14:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:14:19 - 1:14:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:14:19 - 1:14:19)
It's right. very,

[Speaker 3] (1:14:19 - 1:14:19)
You

[Speaker 2] (1:14:19 - 1:14:20)
like,

[Speaker 3] (1:14:20 - 1:14:20)
know, and

[Speaker 2] (1:14:20 - 1:14:20)
it's very and obvious.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:20 - 1:14:28)
zoning something and and and having you know and executing on that are are two totally different things which you

[Speaker 5] (1:14:28 - 1:14:28)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:28 - 1:14:30)
know we we deal with all the time

[Speaker 5] (1:14:30 - 1:14:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:30 - 1:14:32)
in terms of people thinking oh my god

[Speaker 2] (1:14:32 - 1:14:32)
That's

[Speaker 3] (1:14:32 - 1:14:32)
the the whole

[Speaker 2] (1:14:32 - 1:14:33)
hardest.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:33 - 1:14:35)
bulldozers are coming out and and of course they're not.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:35 - 1:14:55)
Um, but um however I've always been a fan of zoning that end of um the street. So um I see either one you know I I think if we struggled with forty R_ then we could probably easily expand the thirty A_ I think.

[Speaker 3] (1:14:56 - 1:14:59)
But um but I think the the forty R_ makes sense. So

[Speaker 1] (1:15:00 - 1:15:02)
I I also think that

[Speaker 1] (1:15:03 - 1:15:15)
I think that the the ideas behind these places or these zones is you know it's just educating town meeting

[Speaker 2] (1:15:15 - 1:15:15)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:15 - 1:15:17)
and and

[Speaker 2] (1:15:17 - 1:15:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:17 - 1:15:29)
I think town meeting got a dose of 3a because it worked its way through media and all these other things they were hearing this story they were all of that

[Speaker 1] (1:15:30 - 1:15:33)
And I think with this,

[Speaker 1] (1:15:33 - 1:15:35)
I think we,

[Speaker 1] (1:15:35 - 1:15:40)
doing this, following successfully passing that 3A makes,

[Speaker 3] (1:15:40 - 1:15:44)
And everybody understanding that, you know, the life has not come to an end.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:44 - 1:15:45)
right,

[Speaker 1] (1:15:45 - 1:15:50)
but it's a case of just having ourselves established for this type of growth.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:51 - 1:15:54)
I don't know, I think it's not quite as foreign now.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:55 - 1:15:58)
as it might have been when we were attempting a forty hour

[Speaker 2] (1:15:58 - 1:15:58)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:15:58 - 1:16:03)
pre-Covid. I think that it's something that that they've been educated outside of the town.

[Speaker 2] (1:16:03 - 1:16:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (1:16:04 - 1:16:05)
Um to have understanding

[Speaker 2] (1:16:05 - 1:16:05)
However,

[Speaker 5] (1:16:05 - 1:16:06)
of what these

[Speaker 2] (1:16:06 - 1:16:06)
going back

[Speaker 5] (1:16:06 - 1:16:06)
things

[Speaker 2] (1:16:06 - 1:16:06)
to Ted's

[Speaker 5] (1:16:06 - 1:16:07)
are.

[Speaker 2] (1:16:07 - 1:16:16)
comment, if if something is more important um that it gets done more quickly, like maybe the the Humphrey Street idea where we where there could be pending applications where people

[Speaker 3] (1:16:16 - 1:16:16)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (1:16:16 - 1:16:16)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:16:16 - 1:16:26)
get rid of ground floor retail, do we focus on that and like that messaging as opposed and then table the 40R 'cause like you said it's nothing's gonna maybe happen tomorrow, could that happen next year?

[Speaker 2] (1:16:27 - 1:16:28)
Knowing the timelines,

[Speaker 3] (1:16:28 - 1:16:29)
Mm

[Speaker 2] (1:16:29 - 1:16:29)
we

[Speaker 3] (1:16:29 - 1:16:29)
-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:16:29 - 1:16:30)
start the conversations,

[Speaker 2] (1:16:30 - 1:16:45)
you know, people can listen in on these meetings, they can start to get familiar with the terms, they can understand it. We let the VINNIN development settle for a year where people are freaking out about development and then focus on what might have a more immediate impact and put

[Speaker 3] (1:16:45 - 1:16:46)
I

[Speaker 2] (1:16:46 - 1:16:46)
something.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:46 - 1:16:52)
think people are starting to, you know, feel more comfortable about the vintage because the commercial part.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:53 - 1:16:54)
Has has

[Speaker 2] (1:16:54 - 1:16:56)
It's like they see the excitement of like,

[Speaker 3] (1:16:56 - 1:16:56)
They

[Speaker 2] (1:16:56 - 1:16:56)
oh, they

[Speaker 3] (1:16:56 - 1:16:56)
could see the excitement

[Speaker 2] (1:16:56 - 1:16:57)
should see that

[Speaker 3] (1:16:57 - 1:16:57)
and

[Speaker 2] (1:16:57 - 1:16:57)
coming.

[Speaker 3] (1:16:57 - 1:17:03)
we've got more, you know, three more great sites coming and then the other side's going to get refaced and,

[Speaker 2] (1:17:03 - 1:17:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:17:03 - 1:17:07)
you know, I think there's a there's a lot of good that comes with it. So that's.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:07 - 1:17:14)
I think also the fact that that appeared in front of them and then it's here because

[Speaker 5] (1:17:14 - 1:17:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:14 - 1:17:20)
it moved at a pace that I think people perceive projects move at.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:21 - 1:17:21)
Instead

[Speaker 5] (1:17:21 - 1:17:21)
In their brief.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:21 - 1:17:22)
of r

[Speaker 3] (1:17:22 - 1:17:22)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:22 - 1:17:23)
rea reality is,

[Speaker 5] (1:17:23 - 1:17:24)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:24 - 1:17:25)
you know, I'm surprised how

[Speaker 5] (1:17:25 - 1:17:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:17:26 - 1:17:26)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:17:26 - 1:17:26)
quickly that

[Speaker 3] (1:17:26 - 1:17:26)
oh yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:26 - 1:17:43)
has has come to be, um which is great. I would I agree with you, but I would also say that we could also be strategic about the conversation around Humphrey Street and the important the important business mixed use

[Speaker 2] (1:17:44 - 1:17:44)
I tie

[Speaker 1] (1:17:44 - 1:17:45)
and then

[Speaker 2] (1:17:45 - 1:17:45)
together.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:45 - 1:17:45)
roll in

[Speaker 2] (1:17:45 - 1:17:46)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:17:46 - 1:17:46)
the 40

[Speaker 2] (1:17:46 - 1:17:46)
tie it

[Speaker 1] (1:17:46 - 1:17:46)
R_

[Speaker 2] (1:17:46 - 1:17:46)
together.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:46 - 1:17:47)
and tie it together,

[Speaker 2] (1:17:47 - 1:17:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:47 - 1:17:54)
um because I think most people have an aware well, I dunno. People that commute have an awareness of what's down there

[Speaker 3] (1:17:55 - 1:17:55)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:17:55 - 1:18:01)
and recognise that it's not um, you know, it's an area that there's it could be

[Speaker 1] (1:18:02 - 1:18:04)
it could be updated, upgraded,

[Speaker 1] (1:18:05 - 1:18:05)
And

[Speaker 2] (1:18:05 - 1:18:05)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:18:05 - 1:18:11)
uh the idea of getting residents and business uh combined down there I don't think would be as threatening.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:11 - 1:18:11)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:12 - 1:18:23)
Right. And, you know, you can see a lot of a lot of um there's gonna be a lot of changes down there, even a little, you know uh well, we don't have to talk about

[Speaker 9] (1:18:23 - 1:18:23)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:23 - 1:18:23)
this. So

[Speaker 9] (1:18:23 - 1:18:25)
they're they're both potentially related.

[Speaker 9] (1:18:26 - 1:18:29)
in the sense where we could do public engagement surrounding mixed use,

[Speaker 5] (1:18:29 - 1:18:29)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:18:29 - 1:18:29)
and

[Speaker 3] (1:18:29 - 1:18:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:18:30 - 1:18:30)
In general.

[Speaker 9] (1:18:30 - 1:18:33)
it would be relevant to

[Speaker 3] (1:18:33 - 1:18:34)
That's both really important.

[Speaker 9] (1:18:34 - 1:18:35)
at the same time.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:35 - 1:18:37)
I know that 40R is pretty,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:37 - 1:18:39)
you know, it's a complex process.

[Speaker 3] (1:18:39 - 1:18:41)
So, but I think on that one,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:41 - 1:18:43)
we will need to get some kind of technical assistance,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:43 - 1:18:44)
which we have the

[Speaker 9] (1:18:44 - 1:18:44)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (1:18:44 - 1:18:45)
funding from.

[Speaker 9] (1:18:45 - 1:18:48)
and I know we've skipped around a little bit.

[Speaker 9] (1:18:50 - 1:18:56)
But bringing it back to the Humphrey Street Overlay conversation that we started last month,

[Speaker 9] (1:18:56 - 1:19:09)
I think at least as staff's personal opinion, at the very least, in December we should be introducing a special permit for conversion from commercial to residential.

[Speaker 3] (1:19:09 - 1:19:09)
I agree.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:09 - 1:19:10)
Absolutely.

[Speaker 9] (1:19:10 - 1:19:10)
At

[Speaker 2] (1:19:10 - 1:19:10)
For sure.

[Speaker 9] (1:19:10 - 1:19:14)
the very least, we should be bringing something, because it is.

[Speaker 9] (1:19:16 - 1:19:24)
You know, you can look at these maps I was talking with Marcy today. There's another example of one on the corner here that had already been approved that we weren't even thinking.

[Speaker 2] (1:19:26 - 1:19:26)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:26 - 1:19:27)
know it's

[Speaker 1] (1:19:28 - 1:19:31)
it's a lot, you know, of this incremental change.

[Speaker 3] (1:19:31 - 1:19:31)
I mean, it could

[Speaker 1] (1:19:31 - 1:19:31)
So,

[Speaker 3] (1:19:31 - 1:19:32)
happen anywhere,

[Speaker 1] (1:19:32 - 1:19:32)
and

[Speaker 3] (1:19:32 - 1:19:32)
really, when

[Speaker 1] (1:19:32 - 1:19:33)
it's not,

[Speaker 3] (1:19:33 - 1:19:33)
you think about it.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:33 - 1:19:42)
you know, it's not even barring it, it's just allowing for that special use approval for the conversion. They need to, they would need to make the argument

[Speaker 4] (1:19:42 - 1:19:43)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:43 - 1:19:44)
about what's viable.

[Speaker 5] (1:19:44 - 1:19:46)
It's another one ending or another one

[Speaker 1] (1:19:46 - 1:19:48)
It's another one that was passed.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:48 - 1:19:49)
It

[Speaker 1] (1:19:49 - 1:19:49)
Um

[Speaker 4] (1:19:49 - 1:19:50)
was passed a couple of years.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:50 - 1:19:51)
yeah, a couple

[Speaker 4] (1:19:51 - 1:19:51)
It

[Speaker 1] (1:19:51 - 1:19:51)
of years

[Speaker 4] (1:19:51 - 1:19:54)
was that, I think it had been an old pharmacy that they had for years.

[Speaker 1] (1:19:54 - 1:19:55)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:54 - 1:19:54)
It

[Speaker 6] (1:19:54 - 1:19:55)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:55 - 1:19:56)
was the collapsing

[Speaker 5] (1:19:56 - 1:19:56)
Yeah,

[Speaker 4] (1:19:56 - 1:19:56)
building

[Speaker 5] (1:19:56 - 1:19:56)
right.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:56 - 1:19:57)
that

[Speaker 6] (1:19:57 - 1:19:57)
It

[Speaker 4] (1:19:57 - 1:19:57)
got brought

[Speaker 6] (1:19:57 - 1:19:57)
was a building.

[Speaker 4] (1:19:57 - 1:19:57)
down.

[Speaker 6] (1:19:57 - 1:19:58)
Yeah,

[Speaker 6] (1:19:58 - 1:20:01)
it was a pharmacy, then it was a hair salon,

[Speaker 6] (1:20:01 - 1:20:03)
then it was all kinds of, it's one,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:03 - 1:20:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:03 - 1:20:03)
it

[Speaker 5] (1:20:03 - 1:20:03)
I

[Speaker 6] (1:20:03 - 1:20:04)
was a

[Speaker 5] (1:20:04 - 1:20:04)
mean, brown so,

[Speaker 6] (1:20:04 - 1:20:05)
building.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:05 - 1:20:05)
Yes, right.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:05 - 1:20:06)
You get it.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:06 - 1:20:14)
Yeah, it's an example where here on the 2016 land use map from the state was shown as mixed use but is now completely residential,

[Speaker 1] (1:20:14 - 1:20:15)
you know, as will be the

[Speaker 6] (1:20:15 - 1:20:18)
And, you know, I fear that that could happen along,

[Speaker 6] (1:20:18 - 1:20:20)
we have, we also have

[Speaker 6] (1:20:21 - 1:20:27)
absentee landlords that own big chunks of Humphrey Street,

[Speaker 6] (1:20:27 - 1:20:34)
the non-ocean part of Humphrey Street that just, you know, aren't going to care.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:34 - 1:20:44)
So, you know, they live out of state that aren't involved at all in the development. So that concerns me as well because

[Speaker 6] (1:20:46 - 1:20:47)
You know we

[Speaker 5] (1:20:47 - 1:20:50)
So you're proposing a ban though, you're proposing just a process.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:50 - 1:20:51)
A special.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:51 - 1:20:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:20:52 - 1:20:54)
You're not proposing a ban,

[Speaker 4] (1:20:54 - 1:20:55)
you're proposing a

[Speaker 1] (1:20:55 - 1:20:56)
Right. It's just a special permit

[Speaker 6] (1:20:56 - 1:20:57)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:20:57 - 1:20:57)
or a conversion.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:57 - 1:20:59)
It is in a business zone.

[Speaker 6] (1:20:59 - 1:21:00)
It's a it's a B1 zone.

[Speaker 6] (1:21:01 - 1:21:11)
So I think we kind of, you know, the fact that we've allowed it to be all residential has something that's been exploited a lot over the past.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:12 - 1:21:14)
Right. And I would say it's unusual for

[Speaker 6] (1:21:14 - 1:21:15)
here in the area.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:15 - 1:21:18)
commercial zoning to allow for residential.

[Speaker 6] (1:21:18 - 1:21:18)
So,

[Speaker 1] (1:21:18 - 1:21:19)
Normally zoning is more

[Speaker 6] (1:21:19 - 1:21:19)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:21:19 - 1:21:21)
exclusive, you

[Speaker 6] (1:21:21 - 1:21:21)
And I think

[Speaker 1] (1:21:21 - 1:21:21)
know, as

[Speaker 6] (1:21:21 - 1:21:21)
a lot

[Speaker 1] (1:21:21 - 1:21:22)
you get

[Speaker 6] (1:21:22 - 1:21:22)
of that

[Speaker 1] (1:21:22 - 1:21:22)
to higher intensities.

[Speaker 6] (1:21:22 - 1:21:25)
might have happened, I mean it doesn't matter when it happened.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:25 - 1:21:34)
I mean, do we have a sense of like what the town generally feels? 'Cause I I don't know if you saw, after our last meeting there was a uh I think the Times wrote an article,

[Speaker 6] (1:21:34 - 1:21:34)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (1:21:34 - 1:21:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:34 - 1:21:38)
and I thought that most of the comments that I saw were positive. The only negative comments that I really saw

[Speaker 7] (1:21:39 - 1:21:41)
where people saying things like

[Speaker 7] (1:21:43 - 1:21:47)
Basically like well why why would you regulate what people can do with

[Speaker 6] (1:21:47 - 1:21:47)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (1:21:47 - 1:21:47)
their

[Speaker 6] (1:21:47 - 1:21:47)
there was a reach.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:47 - 1:21:54)
property and and my thought was sort of like well we do that through at most of the town you can't build any businesses so

[Speaker 4] (1:21:54 - 1:21:54)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:21:54 - 1:22:00)
why should it be that you can only say that you can't have businesses here and over here it has to be anything goes.

[Speaker 6] (1:22:00 - 1:22:00)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:01 - 1:22:10)
And I I guess I think this is like a good starting point but I would but the thing about this that concerns me is that I wonder what our criteria will be to evaluate.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:11 - 1:22:13)
wait, and if we don't think a project should go

[Speaker 6] (1:22:13 - 1:22:13)
Right

[Speaker 7] (1:22:13 - 1:22:13)
forward,

[Speaker 6] (1:22:13 - 1:22:14)
how can we say no?

[Speaker 7] (1:22:14 - 1:22:19)
I wouldn't want us to say no and then, you know, and someone says, well, what's your

[Speaker 6] (1:22:19 - 1:22:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:19 - 1:22:30)
what's your standing? I'd I'd rather have something that's a little stronger and says that, you know, we have to preserve the mixed use, but I obviously don't want to go ahead and do that if that's, you know.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:31 - 1:22:32)
not something that's going to be able to

[Speaker 8] (1:22:32 - 1:22:33)
Or

[Speaker 7] (1:22:33 - 1:22:33)
move

[Speaker 8] (1:22:33 - 1:22:33)
where there's

[Speaker 7] (1:22:33 - 1:22:33)
forward

[Speaker 8] (1:22:33 - 1:22:39)
that hybrid that we talked about last time, which is if it's touching Humphrey Street, if it's like on Humphrey Street, like,

[Speaker 7] (1:22:39 - 1:22:39)
Yes,

[Speaker 8] (1:22:39 - 1:22:39)
you

[Speaker 7] (1:22:39 - 1:22:39)
yeah

[Speaker 8] (1:22:39 - 1:22:43)
know, having that that criteria be different than something that might be a block off.

[Speaker 6] (1:22:43 - 1:22:51)
You know, usually the reasons are that people buy the buildings and they just want to flip it and convert it into something and they don't want to deal with commercial.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:51 - 1:22:52)
But

[Speaker 6] (1:22:52 - 1:22:52)
Like

[Speaker 7] (1:22:52 - 1:22:52)
how they're much

[Speaker 6] (1:22:52 - 1:22:53)
not interested in

[Speaker 7] (1:22:53 - 1:22:53)
what

[Speaker 6] (1:22:53 - 1:22:54)
doing

[Speaker 7] (1:22:54 - 1:22:54)
would our

[Speaker 6] (1:22:54 - 1:22:54)
that.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:54 - 1:22:55)
what like what kind of

[Speaker 6] (1:22:55 - 1:22:55)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:22:55 - 1:22:56)
what kind of standard would

[Speaker 6] (1:22:56 - 1:22:58)
So, well, the only thing we can do is.

[Speaker 6] (1:22:58 - 1:23:08)
is go back to saying that, you know, either we forbid it, you know, we ban it altogether in commercial zones.

[Speaker 6] (1:23:09 - 1:23:24)
or we it's allowed under with a special permit and there has to they have to be able to make a case as why this is more beneficial to the town than having a retail property there I mean you know

[Speaker 1] (1:23:24 - 1:23:29)
Right. And there are different ways you can go about it, but potentially it could be...

[Speaker 1] (1:23:30 - 1:23:40)
However we decide to word it, you know, they would need to provide an argument that ground floor commercial isn't a viable use,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:40 - 1:23:42)
whether that's, you know, they weren't able to rent it out for over a year,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:43 - 1:23:45)
you know, something like that,

[Speaker 1] (1:23:45 - 1:23:49)
whether it's, you know, the location of the specific building for ground floor commercial.

[Speaker 1] (1:23:50 - 1:23:56)
Whatever we would decide those criteria are would be what they would be crafting their argument for with a special

[Speaker 4] (1:23:56 - 1:23:56)
With

[Speaker 1] (1:23:56 - 1:23:57)
permit.

[Speaker 4] (1:23:57 - 1:23:57)
and we would need

[Speaker 7] (1:23:57 - 1:23:57)
exactly

[Speaker 4] (1:23:57 - 1:24:00)
to have that developed before we have.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:00 - 1:24:01)
It's September.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:01 - 1:24:02)
Before September.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:02 - 1:24:06)
And what about, you know, I mean it's a mixed tax rate they have on that building,

[Speaker 6] (1:24:06 - 1:24:20)
so they pay commercial tax rate on the commercial space and they pay, or do they pay commercial tax on the whole building and then it switches if they, I mean I'm not sure, I'd have to ask the assessor's

[Speaker 8] (1:24:20 - 1:24:20)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:20 - 1:24:22)
office like what they do with that.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:23 - 1:24:25)
The commercial's more expensive, right? Even

[Speaker 6] (1:24:25 - 1:24:25)
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:25 - 1:24:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:24:25 - 1:24:25)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:25 - 1:24:26)
Quite a bit more.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:26 - 1:24:30)
So it would be a b benefit to them if they were flipping it to

[Speaker 4] (1:24:30 - 1:24:30)
Well, I mean

[Speaker 8] (1:24:30 - 1:24:30)
flip

[Speaker 4] (1:24:30 - 1:24:30)
that

[Speaker 8] (1:24:30 - 1:24:31)
the residential.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:31 - 1:24:36)
that's interesting if the if the building sits in all commercial

[Speaker 8] (1:24:36 - 1:24:37)
It should be a commercial.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:37 - 1:24:38)
then

[Speaker 4] (1:24:42 - 1:24:43)
then that regulation

[Speaker 8] (1:24:44 - 1:24:49)
But they're allowed to have by right, they're allowed to have residences on upper floors anyway, right? So I don't know what

[Speaker 6] (1:24:49 - 1:24:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:49 - 1:24:50)
they're paying.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:50 - 1:24:51)
So

[Speaker 6] (1:24:51 - 1:24:51)
Exactly.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:51 - 1:24:52)
but if the goal is

[Speaker 6] (1:24:52 - 1:24:52)
I

[Speaker 4] (1:24:52 - 1:24:52)
to bring

[Speaker 6] (1:24:52 - 1:24:52)
know.

[Speaker 4] (1:24:52 - 1:24:53)
their taxes down,

[Speaker 4] (1:24:53 - 1:24:55)
that does not seem like

[Speaker 4] (1:24:56 - 1:24:56)
The great.

[Speaker 6] (1:24:56 - 1:24:57)
I mean, look

[Speaker 8] (1:24:57 - 1:24:57)
at So

[Speaker 6] (1:24:57 - 1:24:57)
the

[Speaker 8] (1:24:57 - 1:24:57)
arts

[Speaker 6] (1:24:57 - 1:24:57)
Provost

[Speaker 8] (1:24:57 - 1:24:58)
is for the

[Speaker 6] (1:24:58 - 1:24:58)
building.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:58 - 1:24:58)
people.

[Speaker 1] (1:24:58 - 1:24:58)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:58 - 1:24:59)
Sell it to somebody who

[Speaker 6] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
Yeah,

[Speaker 8] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
doesn't

[Speaker 4] (1:24:59 - 1:24:59)
with Right.

[Speaker 8] (1:24:59 - 1:25:00)
need a hospital.

[Speaker 6] (1:25:00 - 1:25:03)
the hot dogs and ice cream, I mean, that's been successfully used

[Speaker 4] (1:25:03 - 1:25:03)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:25:03 - 1:25:05)
as mixed use forever.

[Speaker 7] (1:25:05 - 1:25:06)
I think that's like the ideal

[Speaker 6] (1:25:06 - 1:25:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:25:06 - 1:25:07)
street corridor.

[Speaker 6] (1:25:07 - 1:25:11)
That my concern is that, you know, that those buildings where there are,

[Speaker 6] (1:25:11 - 1:25:13)
not that one notwithstanding,

[Speaker 6] (1:25:13 - 1:25:16)
but other structures along Humphrey Street,

[Speaker 6] (1:25:16 - 1:25:21)
little structures at a time are owned by absentee landlords who,

[Speaker 6] (1:25:21 - 1:25:22)
you know,

[Speaker 6] (1:25:24 - 1:25:26)
They don't, they're not bought into having,

[Speaker 7] (1:25:26 - 1:25:26)
Oh

[Speaker 6] (1:25:26 - 1:25:26)
you

[Speaker 7] (1:25:26 - 1:25:26)
yeah,

[Speaker 6] (1:25:26 - 1:25:27)
know,

[Speaker 7] (1:25:27 - 1:25:27)
definitely right.

[Speaker 6] (1:25:27 - 1:25:27)
the

[Speaker 7] (1:25:27 - 1:25:27)
So

[Speaker 6] (1:25:27 - 1:25:28)
maintaining.

[Speaker 7] (1:25:28 - 1:25:34)
that's what I'm saying is like I wouldn't, you know, the, you couldn't lease it for a year while if you're absentee do you even really care?

[Speaker 6] (1:25:34 - 1:25:35)
They don't care,

[Speaker 7] (1:25:35 - 1:25:36)
I think what I

[Speaker 6] (1:25:36 - 1:25:36)
and

[Speaker 7] (1:25:36 - 1:25:36)
would prefer

[Speaker 6] (1:25:36 - 1:25:37)
they don't want to deal with it.

[Speaker 7] (1:25:37 - 1:25:48)
is that it's a, is it possible, like can we have a special permit that's just a completely discretionary special permit and they can apply for the special permit to have the

[Speaker 7] (1:25:49 - 1:25:50)
the residential and that's

[Speaker 6] (1:25:50 - 1:25:50)
Mm

[Speaker 7] (1:25:50 - 1:25:50)
the way

[Speaker 6] (1:25:50 - 1:25:50)
-hmm.

[Speaker 7] (1:25:50 - 1:25:57)
it would work. So the default is 'cause I think the intent of the the by-law was that the default would that you really

[Speaker 1] (1:25:57 - 1:25:59)
Right, all residential would be a special

[Speaker 5] (1:25:59 - 1:25:59)
right.

[Speaker 1] (1:25:59 - 1:26:00)
permit rather than a conversion.

[Speaker 7] (1:26:00 - 1:26:01)
whole in the zoning by-law.

[Speaker 6] (1:26:01 - 1:26:02)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:02 - 1:26:05)
Got you. That I mean that potentially could be

[Speaker 7] (1:26:05 - 1:26:07)
Because I think that would just put us on better standing

[Speaker 1] (1:26:07 - 1:26:08)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (1:26:08 - 1:26:08)
with

[Speaker 1] (1:26:08 - 1:26:08)
rather than

[Speaker 7] (1:26:08 - 1:26:08)
the city.

[Speaker 1] (1:26:08 - 1:26:12)
looking at it as the conversion is looking at it, if you want to do completely residential,

[Speaker 7] (1:26:12 - 1:26:13)
You have to get it you as

[Speaker 1] (1:26:13 - 1:26:14)
that's the special

[Speaker 7] (1:26:14 - 1:26:14)
you have to permit. get a discretionary

[Speaker 6] (1:26:14 - 1:26:15)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (1:26:15 - 1:26:16)
special permit.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:16 - 1:26:22)
Because I think one of the the defenses that the town can have is as you erode a commercial zone,

[Speaker 4] (1:26:22 - 1:26:24)
you're eroding foot traffic,

[Speaker 6] (1:26:24 - 1:26:24)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (1:26:24 - 1:26:24)
you're removing,

[Speaker 6] (1:26:24 - 1:26:25)
you create a dead zone.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:25 - 1:26:27)
you're you're creating.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:27 - 1:26:34)
you are actually negatively impacting the commercial prod property around you when you remove

[Speaker 1] (1:26:34 - 1:26:34)
Yep.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:34 - 1:26:47)
you know if there's and in many of our zones there might be six commercial spaces to you know to reduce that by a sixth is significant

[Speaker 7] (1:26:47 - 1:26:47)
Right,

[Speaker 4] (1:26:47 - 1:26:47)
yeah

[Speaker 7] (1:26:47 - 1:26:47)
yeah, completely.

[Speaker 4] (1:26:47 - 1:26:52)
yeah so i think that is interesting to make that

[Speaker 4] (1:26:56 - 1:26:56)
Converted.

[Speaker 5] (1:26:56 - 1:26:59)
Do we already have that, that you can't reduce the commercial footprint?

[Speaker 6] (1:27:00 - 1:27:01)
Oh, only in Vinn and Square.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:02 - 1:27:02)
Only Vinn and Square.

[Speaker 6] (1:27:03 - 1:27:04)
Yep.

[Speaker 5] (1:27:05 - 1:27:07)
But we could just expand that.

[Speaker 1] (1:27:07 - 1:27:11)
Okay, so for next meeting, I know we don't have much time, right,

[Speaker 1] (1:27:11 - 1:27:19)
with these potential zoning bylaw changes. So thinking about 4 Humphrey Shooter for District.

[Speaker 1] (1:27:20 - 1:27:30)
For next meeting, potentially coming up with some draft language and criteria for a special permit um for resident just for completely residential uses.

[Speaker 6] (1:27:30 - 1:27:30)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (1:27:30 - 1:27:30)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:27:30 - 1:27:38)
Um and coming up with some draft by-law language that I can run by you guys. Um does that sound

[Speaker 5] (1:27:39 - 1:27:39)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:27:39 - 1:27:40)
Yeah, and the time in the timeline that like

[Speaker 4] (1:27:40 - 1:27:41)
Phil, can

[Speaker 8] (1:27:41 - 1:27:41)
the bumped

[Speaker 4] (1:27:41 - 1:27:46)
I out. can I build on what you're saying, which I think is really interesting that there is that reduction

[Speaker 4] (1:27:47 - 1:27:50)
It's not permitted to reduce commercial space

[Speaker 6] (1:27:50 - 1:27:50)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:27:50 - 1:27:51)
in a bin and square.

[Speaker 4] (1:27:52 - 1:27:58)
Um I guess the question that I would have is bin and square and Humphrey Street.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:00 - 1:28:06)
Wouldn't there be logic in that rule being in both places since those are our two commercial districts?

[Speaker 6] (1:28:06 - 1:28:07)
Yeah, I mean,

[Speaker 4] (1:28:07 - 1:28:07)
Because

[Speaker 6] (1:28:07 - 1:28:08)
Finn and Square

[Speaker 4] (1:28:08 - 1:28:09)
I think there's an interesting argument in

[Speaker 7] (1:28:09 - 1:28:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:09 - 1:28:09)
that,

[Speaker 6] (1:28:09 - 1:28:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:10 - 1:28:13)
that I think could get voters thinking about it.

[Speaker 7] (1:28:13 - 1:28:19)
Right, it's we're all we're doing is really putting in place what we've already put in place and what was intended here in the first place.

[Speaker 6] (1:28:19 - 1:28:19)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (1:28:19 - 1:28:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:28:19 - 1:28:22)
So it's in B3 and B4 right now,

[Speaker 8] (1:28:22 - 1:28:22)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:28:22 - 1:28:23)
which is Venon Square,

[Speaker 6] (1:28:23 - 1:28:26)
and basically says, I mean, B3 right now is.

[Speaker 6] (1:28:26 - 1:28:36)
is the same, and it says that you can't, you know, you can't reduce any, anything that's currently commercial stays commercial, you can't change it.

[Speaker 6] (1:28:36 - 1:28:54)
um before, which is the new Vinton Square or Swampscott Mall zoning, it actually does cover th the entirety of Vinton Square, meaning the malls on both sides of Paradise Road. But it um, you know, applying right now to to Swampscott Mall,

[Speaker 6] (1:28:54 - 1:28:57)
we changed it so that

[Speaker 6] (1:28:58 - 1:29:19)
it had to keep 75% of the existing ground floor space if it was an existing building that was being converted and the reason for that was that the Swampscott Mall so like where you know walkers Sam walkers is and the gap is and so forth those stores are all

[Speaker 1] (1:29:40 - 1:29:55)
stores and um so to date it has not been a problem but you know we said in case I don't know if somebody want to switch it I mean it doesn't look like it's going to be an issue for anyone there but um

[Speaker 2] (1:29:55 - 1:29:58)
But also seems like those those are actually attractive spaces.

[Speaker 1] (1:29:59 - 1:30:00)
they are they are now

[Speaker 2] (1:30:00 - 1:30:08)
No, but it but it's a it's a case where like I used to be a store designer for the gap and one of our major issues was the fact that

[Speaker 2] (1:30:08 - 1:30:13)
than the earlier malls the mall stores we couldn't fit in it.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:13 - 1:30:14)
Yeah. So

[Speaker 2] (1:30:14 - 1:30:14)
But

[Speaker 1] (1:30:14 - 1:30:14)
they never

[Speaker 2] (1:30:14 - 1:30:15)
the expanded.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:15 - 1:30:20)
complained about it. It was the smaller stores and but it doesn't seem like we

[Speaker 2] (1:30:20 - 1:30:21)
So be

[Speaker 1] (1:30:21 - 1:30:22)
have anybody complaining right

[Speaker 2] (1:30:22 - 1:30:22)
two

[Speaker 1] (1:30:22 - 1:30:22)
now.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:22 - 1:30:26)
and be three if we were to align be one to

[Speaker 1] (1:30:26 - 1:30:29)
Yeah. V2, I don't think that that has

[Speaker 3] (1:30:29 - 1:30:29)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:30:29 - 1:30:31)
regulations in there.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:31 - 1:30:31)
so it's just

[Speaker 1] (1:30:31 - 1:30:31)
Exactly.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:31 - 1:30:33)
B_ three and B_ four, correct? So

[Speaker 1] (1:30:33 - 1:30:33)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:33 - 1:30:34)
then in the square

[Speaker 1] (1:30:34 - 1:30:34)
Just bring it in.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:34 - 1:30:35)
And

[Speaker 1] (1:30:35 - 1:30:35)
Um,

[Speaker 2] (1:30:35 - 1:30:36)
where is B_ two?

[Speaker 1] (1:30:36 - 1:30:41)
it's in it's mixed in different areas. A lot of it's down by the train station,

[Speaker 3] (1:30:41 - 1:30:41)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:30:41 - 1:30:42)
a lot of it is

[Speaker 3] (1:30:42 - 1:30:48)
So using this as an example, Essex Street here, this is B_ two on the north side.

[Speaker 3] (1:30:49 - 1:30:54)
Um but there's like B_ w pockets of B_ one around here. These are all small pockets of B_ one.

[Speaker 2] (1:30:55 - 1:31:01)
Is there any reason not to have the rules in all of the B's?

[Speaker 1] (1:31:01 - 1:31:03)
No, no reason.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:03 - 1:31:11)
Right. And so this actually is part of one of the questions I wanted to ask you all tonight is when we were talking about this,

[Speaker 3] (1:31:11 - 1:31:14)
Marzi and I just at town hall,

[Speaker 3] (1:31:14 - 1:31:18)
we were thinking of should this conversation really

[Speaker 3] (1:31:19 - 1:31:23)
be restricted to only Humphrey Street because there are other examples of B1

[Speaker 4] (1:31:23 - 1:31:23)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:23 - 1:31:24)
in town that's getting converted

[Speaker 4] (1:31:24 - 1:31:24)
That's

[Speaker 3] (1:31:24 - 1:31:24)
to

[Speaker 4] (1:31:24 - 1:31:24)
right.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:24 - 1:31:26)
completely residential along

[Speaker 4] (1:31:26 - 1:31:26)
That's

[Speaker 3] (1:31:26 - 1:31:26)
Essex

[Speaker 4] (1:31:26 - 1:31:26)
right.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:26 - 1:31:34)
Street. So do we want to keep this um conversation strictly to the Humphrey Street Overlay District

[Speaker 1] (1:31:34 - 1:31:34)
There's

[Speaker 3] (1:31:34 - 1:31:34)
or

[Speaker 1] (1:31:34 - 1:31:35)
no reason to

[Speaker 5] (1:31:35 - 1:31:35)
the

[Speaker 1] (1:31:35 - 1:31:35)
do it.

[Speaker 5] (1:31:35 - 1:31:35)
zone

[Speaker 3] (1:31:35 - 1:31:36)
um

[Speaker 5] (1:31:36 - 1:31:36)
idea.

[Speaker 3] (1:31:36 - 1:31:42)
yeah, do we wanna um think about it on town-wide um because there are other examples in town of

[Speaker 2] (1:31:42 - 1:31:43)
I I think

[Speaker 3] (1:31:43 - 1:31:43)
commercial.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:43 - 1:31:44)
for a town that that

[Speaker 2] (1:31:45 - 1:31:53)
consistently does come back to us not having commercial space, us not having that

[Speaker 2] (1:31:55 - 1:31:57)
that to me seems like a really good reason to

[Speaker 6] (1:31:57 - 1:31:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:31:58 - 1:32:03)
have a restriction like that and and not pick on it being based on location

[Speaker 6] (1:32:03 - 1:32:04)
Right, and and

[Speaker 2] (1:32:04 - 1:32:11)
and then just cover it so that that we don't see especially if we're our goal is mixed use.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:11 - 1:32:12)
Protecting

[Speaker 7] (1:32:12 - 1:32:12)
Just, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:12 - 1:32:14)
the commercial makes a lot of sense.

[Speaker 7] (1:32:14 - 1:32:16)
And especially if it's already B_ I mean, if it's already

[Speaker 8] (1:32:16 - 1:32:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:32:16 - 1:32:18)
B_ it's not we're not even changing the

[Speaker 2] (1:32:18 - 1:32:18)
It's Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:32:18 - 1:32:18)
already

[Speaker 8] (1:32:18 - 1:32:18)
That's

[Speaker 7] (1:32:18 - 1:32:19)
zoned

[Speaker 8] (1:32:19 - 1:32:19)
right.

[Speaker 7] (1:32:19 - 1:32:19)
that way, so

[Speaker 2] (1:32:19 - 1:32:27)
Yeah, and what we're looking for on on the Humphrey Street overlay, that's where all the business is, it's an

[Speaker 8] (1:32:27 - 1:32:27)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:27 - 1:32:30)
B_ and then we don't have to worry about um

[Speaker 2] (1:32:31 - 1:32:35)
The Burrell, excuse me, uh what street is that? Blaney Street,

[Speaker 3] (1:32:35 - 1:32:35)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:35 - 1:32:35)
Holyoke

[Speaker 7] (1:32:35 - 1:32:36)
Right,

[Speaker 2] (1:32:36 - 1:32:36)
Street.

[Speaker 7] (1:32:36 - 1:32:37)
yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:37 - 1:32:37)
You know, the ones

[Speaker 7] (1:32:37 - 1:32:37)
But that

[Speaker 2] (1:32:37 - 1:32:38)
that was do

[Speaker 7] (1:32:38 - 1:32:39)
a big concern, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:39 - 1:32:41)
do feel sort of strange,

[Speaker 7] (1:32:41 - 1:32:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:42 - 1:32:42)
um

[Speaker 2] (1:32:44 - 1:32:48)
I mean I I think that would also be a very easy

[Speaker 3] (1:32:49 - 1:32:49)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:50 - 1:32:53)
accessible from the general public

[Speaker 1] (1:32:53 - 1:32:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:32:53 - 1:33:01)
that are voting in town meeting to understand that this was something that was done over here but it really should be covering protecting all of our commercial

[Speaker 1] (1:33:01 - 1:33:01)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:33:01 - 1:33:01)
space

[Speaker 9] (1:33:01 - 1:33:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:01 - 1:33:10)
So, you know, a lot of this came up and we had this kind of, you know, omnibus zoning change in 2009.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:12 - 1:33:14)
A lot of this happened then.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:14 - 1:33:21)
I'm not saying all of it. I have to go back and look at my notes. But that was the first year I was even involved in this.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:22 - 1:33:29)
It was too, you know, it was more about we didn't have other, we didn't have like 40Rs, we didn't have 3As,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:29 - 1:33:41)
we just didn't have these humongous, you know, housing projects popping up everywhere and it was more to, you know, sort of generate infill housing and relax some of the regulations around it.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:41 - 1:33:46)
So I really think that that's, you know, has backfired on us in a big way.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:48 - 1:33:50)
And, yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:33:50 - 1:33:53)
I think that we should be reversing it and no,

[Speaker 10] (1:33:53 - 1:33:57)
But it's not limiting the residential that's above.

[Speaker 10] (1:33:57 - 1:33:59)
It's just saying what's already there doesn't go away.

[Speaker 1] (1:33:59 - 1:34:01)
yeah, that's correct.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:01 - 1:34:02)
That's correct.

[Speaker 7] (1:34:02 - 1:34:05)
Yeah, so Krista, do you want to get us some language? I think that,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:05 - 1:34:06)
I wish I could

[Speaker 7] (1:34:06 - 1:34:06)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:06 - 1:34:06)
find the old zoning.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:06 - 1:34:13)
Yeah, and I can do it for, you know, B1 and B2 to be in line with what we already have for B3 and B4.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:13 - 1:34:15)
And I think, yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:16 - 1:34:23)
I think that there will be a pretty reasonable argument for that to preserve, you know, we can run the numbers for, you

[Speaker 1] (1:34:23 - 1:34:23)
I mean, we're only

[Speaker 3] (1:34:23 - 1:34:24)
know, how

[Speaker 1] (1:34:24 - 1:34:24)
talking

[Speaker 3] (1:34:24 - 1:34:24)
many commercial

[Speaker 1] (1:34:24 - 1:34:24)
about

[Speaker 3] (1:34:24 - 1:34:24)
properties

[Speaker 1] (1:34:24 - 1:34:25)
commercial

[Speaker 3] (1:34:25 - 1:34:25)
we have.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:25 - 1:34:26)
base and

[Speaker 3] (1:34:26 - 1:34:27)
It's not that many,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:27 - 1:34:27)
you can't

[Speaker 3] (1:34:27 - 1:34:27)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:34:27 - 1:34:27)
tell.

[Speaker 7] (1:34:28 - 1:34:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:34:28 - 1:34:29)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:29 - 1:34:35)
Um I yes, so for next meeting we can get some I'll get some draft language for you can talk through it,

[Speaker 1] (1:34:35 - 1:34:35)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:35 - 1:34:38)
refine it, um and

[Speaker 3] (1:34:39 - 1:34:43)
figure that out, you know, talk through any potential scenarios, things like that.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:43 - 1:34:43)
But

[Speaker 1] (1:34:43 - 1:34:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:44 - 1:34:52)
we can get that discussion started so that moving forward, if everything looks good, we can do that community engagement

[Speaker 1] (1:34:52 - 1:34:52)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:34:52 - 1:34:59)
and I will have the all of the timelines for what we'll need to do to get on that warrant

[Speaker 1] (1:34:59 - 1:35:00)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:00 - 1:35:00)
and

[Speaker 1] (1:35:00 - 1:35:01)
Deadlines would be great.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:01 - 1:35:07)
for that meeting as well. So we can, we can talk through and we'll have, you know, some draft language to review as well, but.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:08 - 1:35:09)
Um

[Speaker 2] (1:35:09 - 1:35:21)
Forissa, this also feels shifting it from the Humphrey Street overlay to the B1 and B2 also aligns really nicely with the commuter rail 4R because

[Speaker 1] (1:35:21 - 1:35:22)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:22 - 1:35:28)
that whole conversation can be these changes are being made to assure that this doesn't become

[Speaker 2] (1:35:29 - 1:35:30)
You

[Speaker 3] (1:35:30 - 1:35:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:30 - 1:35:31)
know, a giant housing project,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:31 - 1:35:32)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:32 - 1:35:33)
it's it's really about

[Speaker 7] (1:35:33 - 1:35:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:33 - 1:35:36)
the mixed use and the commercial and maintaining

[Speaker 1] (1:35:36 - 1:35:37)
That's correct.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:37 - 1:35:38)
and valuing our commercial space.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:38 - 1:35:39)
That's funny.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:39 - 1:35:39)
And mixed

[Speaker 2] (1:35:39 - 1:35:40)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:40 - 1:35:43)
use is is critical for, you know, small neighborhoods for Just

[Speaker 7] (1:35:43 - 1:35:45)
Should write that down for the meeting.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:45 - 1:35:46)
Oh,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:46 - 1:35:46)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:35:46 - 1:35:46)
I'll remember.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:46 - 1:35:47)
okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:48 - 1:35:48)
He's

[Speaker 2] (1:35:48 - 1:35:49)
But I

[Speaker 1] (1:35:49 - 1:35:49)
good at that

[Speaker 2] (1:35:49 - 1:35:49)
but

[Speaker 1] (1:35:49 - 1:35:49)
stuff.

[Speaker 2] (1:35:49 - 1:35:53)
but it is like I think that that alignment is great,

[Speaker 1] (1:35:53 - 1:35:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:53 - 1:35:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:35:53 - 1:35:54)
you

[Speaker 1] (1:35:54 - 1:35:54)
I

[Speaker 3] (1:35:54 - 1:35:54)
it

[Speaker 2] (1:35:54 - 1:35:54)
know.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:54 - 1:35:54)
do too.

[Speaker 1] (1:35:56 - 1:35:56)
I do too.

[Speaker 3] (1:35:57 - 1:36:06)
Great, um so I will get working on that and for our next meeting um we can continue the conversation um

[Speaker 1] (1:36:06 - 1:36:06)
Excellent.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:06 - 1:36:10)
and refine it and we will have all the deadlines and timeline for you guys as well.

[Speaker 3] (1:36:11 - 1:36:12)
for what that will look like.

[Speaker 10] (1:36:13 - 1:36:18)
One quick question, just looking at some of the 3A is already overlaying some of the B.

[Speaker 10] (1:36:19 - 1:36:20)
Is that a problem then?

[Speaker 10] (1:36:20 - 1:36:22)
Like does 3A allow this?

[Speaker 1] (1:36:22 - 1:36:25)
It does. It allows mixed use. Yep. That and that came

[Speaker 10] (1:36:25 - 1:36:25)
That

[Speaker 1] (1:36:25 - 1:36:25)
up because

[Speaker 10] (1:36:25 - 1:36:26)
was a change recently,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:26 - 1:36:26)
that

[Speaker 10] (1:36:26 - 1:36:26)
right?

[Speaker 1] (1:36:26 - 1:36:28)
was one of their later changes.

[Speaker 10] (1:36:28 - 1:36:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:28 - 1:36:29)
They've changed,

[Speaker 10] (1:36:29 - 1:36:29)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:29 - 1:36:35)
you know, we started working on the zoning and supposedly with the draft guidelines,

[Speaker 1] (1:36:35 - 1:36:40)
you know, in place and over the following year, those guidelines were constantly

[Speaker 1] (1:36:40 - 1:36:40)
constantly

[Speaker 10] (1:36:40 - 1:36:41)
Okay, I read shifting an article recently.

[Speaker 1] (1:36:41 - 1:37:04)
and and we you know that was our issue was you know we have spent hours on this already how many more I mean when are you going to be done you know when is that goal and and they said well whenever you began the process whenever we started working with Bowler we were able to to you know continue under those guidelines even though something like being able to

[Speaker 1] (1:37:05 - 1:37:11)
allow mixed use, which initially wasn't allowed.

[Speaker 10] (1:37:11 - 1:37:12)
I remember that,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:12 - 1:37:16)
And also being able to respect our inclusionary zoning,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:16 - 1:37:18)
which they at first said no,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:18 - 1:37:23)
because anything that was going to detract or discourage an investor,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:23 - 1:37:25)
a builder from building,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:25 - 1:37:27)
like you have to have affordable,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:27 - 1:37:27)
you

[Speaker 10] (1:37:27 - 1:37:28)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:28 - 1:37:28)
know, they

[Speaker 10] (1:37:28 - 1:37:28)
right.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:28 - 1:37:33)
didn't want, they didn't want anything in the way of somebody who wanted to go and build.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:33 - 1:37:33)
build.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:33 - 1:37:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:37:33 - 1:37:34)
So,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:34 - 1:37:37)
but then that, you know, that shifted as well,

[Speaker 1] (1:37:37 - 1:37:38)
which was, that's all good.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:38 - 1:37:39)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:39 - 1:37:41)
But that's a really good point, right?

[Speaker 3] (1:37:41 - 1:37:42)
So it's an overlay.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:42 - 1:37:45)
So what we'll be proposing will be for the underlying district.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:45 - 1:37:49)
So the 3A district to comply will still kind

[Speaker 1] (1:37:49 - 1:37:49)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:49 - 1:37:55)
of override what we're talking about for that specific overlay over the B1.

[Speaker 3] (1:37:55 - 1:37:58)
But we still, yeah, changing the underlying,

[Speaker 3] (1:37:59 - 1:37:59)
it will just.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:00 - 1:38:05)
The MBTA overlay will um override it by allowing by right

[Speaker 10] (1:38:06 - 1:38:06)
Got it.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:06 - 1:38:08)
on top of it, if that makes sense.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:08 - 1:38:10)
Just as a question,

[Speaker 2] (1:38:10 - 1:38:14)
is there talk of expanding the three A_ requirements?

[Speaker 2] (1:38:15 - 1:38:16)
Or um

[Speaker 1] (1:38:16 - 1:38:17)
What do you mean the requirements?

[Speaker 10] (1:38:17 - 1:38:17)
state level?

[Speaker 2] (1:38:17 - 1:38:18)
At the state level.

[Speaker 10] (1:38:19 - 1:38:19)
I

[Speaker 1] (1:38:19 - 1:38:19)
I

[Speaker 10] (1:38:19 - 1:38:20)
mean

[Speaker 1] (1:38:20 - 1:38:20)
have no idea.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:20 - 1:38:21)
I'm not sure.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:21 - 1:38:22)
I mean, because

[Speaker 2] (1:38:22 - 1:38:22)
No,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:22 - 1:38:22)
there's

[Speaker 2] (1:38:22 - 1:38:22)
but I mean,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:22 - 1:38:24)
so many of us have zoning in place now.

[Speaker 2] (1:38:24 - 1:38:25)
is

[Speaker 1] (1:38:25 - 1:38:25)
I mean,

[Speaker 2] (1:38:25 - 1:38:25)
the

[Speaker 1] (1:38:25 - 1:38:25)
it's

[Speaker 2] (1:38:25 - 1:38:25)
thought,

[Speaker 1] (1:38:25 - 1:38:25)
like,

[Speaker 2] (1:38:25 - 1:38:36)
is the thought of just the, the expansion of the 3A, was that to like get ahead of the game, or was it that the goal is worthy,

[Speaker 2] (1:38:36 - 1:38:40)
but we could also do the goal through 40R, we just need to figure out what's going to be the easiest?

[Speaker 3] (1:38:40 - 1:38:43)
Yeah, it was figuring out the best mechanism for

[Speaker 1] (1:38:43 - 1:38:43)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:43 - 1:38:44)
allowing

[Speaker 2] (1:38:44 - 1:38:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:38:44 - 1:38:45)
for mixed use.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:45 - 1:38:46)
40R is...

[Speaker 1] (1:38:46 - 1:38:47)
It's all about affordability and

[Speaker 2] (1:38:47 - 1:38:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:38:48 - 1:39:11)
when you build these things and and as you build them the state actually reimburses you for every unit that gets built because it's specifically targeted at you know at a population that needs help with affordability so that and the regulations are pretty rigid in terms of

[Speaker 1] (1:39:12 - 1:39:14)
you know, design, number of views per acre.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:18 - 1:39:27)
Do we know I I have no idea but does does the town know how well the Elm Place uh occupancy is? Was that a very

[Speaker 1] (1:39:27 - 1:39:30)
I understood that it's pretty full. It's it's

[Speaker 3] (1:39:31 - 1:39:33)
Yeah, I don't have the exact numbers,

[Speaker 2] (1:39:33 - 1:39:33)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:39:33 - 1:39:33)
but

[Speaker 2] (1:39:33 - 1:39:33)
I

[Speaker 3] (1:39:33 - 1:39:34)
that's

[Speaker 2] (1:39:34 - 1:39:44)
see the commuters. I mean it makes me really happy when I get off the train or when I get on the train and I'm watching a considerable amount of people walking

[Speaker 1] (1:39:44 - 1:39:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:45 - 1:39:45)
to the train station

[Speaker 1] (1:39:45 - 1:39:46)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:46 - 1:39:48)
from that direction, the cut through.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:48 - 1:39:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:48 - 1:39:51)
I mean it's like that's what we want.

[Speaker 2] (1:39:51 - 1:39:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:51 - 1:39:52)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:39:53 - 1:39:56)
My understanding was that it was pretty well subscribed,

[Speaker 1] (1:39:56 - 1:40:00)
so, but, you know, that was like, I don't know, months ago,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:00 - 1:40:01)
so I

[Speaker 2] (1:40:01 - 1:40:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:40:01 - 1:40:01)
don't

[Speaker 3] (1:40:01 - 1:40:01)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:01 - 1:40:01)
know.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:01 - 1:40:03)
when we continue these discussions,

[Speaker 3] (1:40:03 - 1:40:04)
it will be good.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:05 - 1:40:08)
I can pull those numbers. That way it can support,

[Speaker 1] (1:40:08 - 1:40:08)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:08 - 1:40:11)
you know, the argument that we'll be making.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:13 - 1:40:15)
To continue this conversation going,

[Speaker 3] (1:40:15 - 1:40:20)
I did have the one last topic of conversation, which was the ADU site plan special.

[Speaker 3] (1:40:21 - 1:40:45)
permit discussion that I wanted to touch on unless anyone had any other thoughts for Humphrey Street or 40R that you want to talk about right now otherwise I'll get moving internally and next month we'll have a lot more to talk about and that timeline together so we can continue to

[Speaker 3] (1:40:45 - 1:40:54)
Ideally shoot for December. We'll also have had that conversation with MAPC, so potentially we could have some technical assistance on some of these as well,

[Speaker 3] (1:40:54 - 1:40:58)
which would be really helpful because there's not that much staff capacity,

[Speaker 3] (1:40:58 - 1:41:00)
but we're doing our best.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:01 - 1:41:06)
The third one is for the ADU site plan special permit zoning amendments.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:08 - 1:41:11)
As you've all probably noticed we've had quite a few ADU applications

[Speaker 1] (1:41:11 - 1:41:11)
Mm

[Speaker 3] (1:41:11 - 1:41:12)
come

[Speaker 1] (1:41:12 - 1:41:12)
-hmm.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:12 - 1:41:36)
through which is exciting and it seems like people in Swampscott have been taking up you know taking up permitting you know once they're allowed we've had quite a few come before us which is a good thing we just would want to address the conflict currently in the zoning bylaw which is site plan special permit is requires

[Speaker 3] (1:41:37 - 1:41:39)
Review requires 500 square feet,

[Speaker 3] (1:41:39 - 1:41:45)
and it's 900 for allowing an ADU by right from the state.

[Speaker 3] (1:41:46 - 1:42:00)
And the discussion that I wanted to have today was how do we want to approach this? Because I know it was very recently that it was changed to be 500 square feet for review from 800.

[Speaker 3] (1:42:00 - 1:42:02)
So would we want to amend?

[Speaker 3] (1:42:03 - 1:42:23)
Because we're going to have to amend the zoning bylaws. So do we want to amend it to exempt 80 units from the existing 500 square foot site plan review requirement? Or do we want to amend the zoning bylaw to change site plan special permit review requirements to comply with the 900 square

[Speaker 1] (1:42:23 - 1:42:28)
You could just say all 80 units. I mean, if we have an ADU that's 750 square feet,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:28 - 1:42:29)
you know.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:30 - 1:42:30)
And people,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:30 - 1:42:33)
it seems like they're trying to make them as big as possible.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:33 - 1:42:41)
But, you know, I don't think that, I mean, essentially having a site plan, special permit,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:41 - 1:42:44)
we're not, because it's allowed by right,

[Speaker 1] (1:42:44 - 1:42:55)
we're not going to, the only thing that would knock it off is if it was grossly out of compliance with zoning or there was, you know, maybe there were, it was.

[Speaker 1] (1:42:56 - 1:43:01)
You know, it was just, you know, it was covering up every little bit of open space.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:01 - 1:43:11)
I mean, I think that there are, I don't think that the state bylaw precludes us from looking at it. It just says you have to allow it by right,

[Speaker 1] (1:43:12 - 1:43:16)
but it doesn't say it can violate every provision of your zoning bylaw.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:16 - 1:43:17)
Right, it's...

[Speaker 3] (1:43:19 - 1:43:23)
Just basically is adding this additional review so

[Speaker 1] (1:43:23 - 1:43:23)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:23 - 1:43:27)
restrictive where they could argue that it's not by right because.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:28 - 1:43:29)
We are, you

[Speaker 4] (1:43:29 - 1:43:29)
They're changing the

[Speaker 3] (1:43:29 - 1:43:32)
know, adding so many restrictions onto the approval,

[Speaker 3] (1:43:32 - 1:43:33)
you know, it isn't by right if we're

[Speaker 1] (1:43:33 - 1:43:34)
Well,

[Speaker 3] (1:43:34 - 1:43:34)
crossing

[Speaker 1] (1:43:34 - 1:43:34)
it's a use,

[Speaker 3] (1:43:34 - 1:43:34)
all these other things.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:34 - 1:43:35)
a by right use,

[Speaker 1] (1:43:35 - 1:43:36)
right?

[Speaker 5] (1:43:37 - 1:43:37)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:37 - 1:43:37)
But

[Speaker 4] (1:43:37 - 1:43:38)
But they're changing

[Speaker 1] (1:43:38 - 1:43:38)
why does

[Speaker 4] (1:43:38 - 1:43:38)
for it.

[Speaker 1] (1:43:38 - 1:43:39)
that have to

[Speaker 4] (1:43:39 - 1:43:43)
It's by right for for nine hundred, but we're not allowing five hundred.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:43 - 1:43:43)
Right,

[Speaker 3] (1:43:43 - 1:43:45)
exactly, and that's where the

[Speaker 4] (1:43:45 - 1:43:45)
But what

[Speaker 3] (1:43:45 - 1:43:46)
the conflict

[Speaker 4] (1:43:46 - 1:43:46)
are the tradeoffs

[Speaker 3] (1:43:46 - 1:43:46)
lies.

[Speaker 4] (1:43:46 - 1:43:48)
for the two you options you just put out?

[Speaker 3] (1:43:49 - 1:43:55)
Right, so if this is the discussion that we wanted to have tonight, because I know it was recent that

[Speaker 3] (1:43:56 - 1:43:58)
The change was made for allowing

[Speaker 2] (1:43:58 - 1:43:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:43:59 - 1:44:05)
it to go down to 500 square feet for site plan special permit review.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:05 - 1:44:22)
I think first, maybe we could talk about the intent of why that change was made and if the board feels that the types of applications that have come in front of you since that was made are the types of applications,

[Speaker 3] (1:44:22 - 1:44:23)
you know.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:23 - 1:44:26)
that you think are worth the board's time in reviewing,

[Speaker 3] (1:44:26 - 1:44:32)
you know, as minor as being 500 square feet because,

[Speaker 3] (1:44:32 - 1:44:42)
you know, it is relatively unusual looking at other towns around us. Some municipalities do go down as small as 500 square feet,

[Speaker 3] (1:44:42 - 1:44:49)
specifically Nahant does and Marblehead in their shoreline harborfront district.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:49 - 1:44:56)
But other than that, most of the surrounding towns around us require a thousand square feet for site

[Speaker 1] (1:44:56 - 1:44:56)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:56 - 1:44:56)
plan review.

[Speaker 2] (1:44:56 - 1:44:59)
No, I I can talk to this because I'm the one that fought for this.

[Speaker 3] (1:44:59 - 1:45:00)
Okay. Yeah, no,

[Speaker 2] (1:45:00 - 1:45:00)
Um

[Speaker 3] (1:45:00 - 1:45:01)
I'm I'm very curious to

[Speaker 2] (1:45:01 - 1:45:02)
th five the

[Speaker 3] (1:45:02 - 1:45:02)
to know.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:02 - 1:45:05)
the 500 square feet had to do with the density

[Speaker 1] (1:45:05 - 1:45:05)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:05 - 1:45:06)
of the town

[Speaker 1] (1:45:06 - 1:45:06)
It definitely

[Speaker 2] (1:45:06 - 1:45:06)
and

[Speaker 1] (1:45:06 - 1:45:07)
does.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:07 - 1:45:10)
the and the huge number of non-conforming

[Speaker 3] (1:45:10 - 1:45:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:10 - 1:45:11)
lots.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:11 - 1:45:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:11 - 1:45:14)
Um and that as we reviewed it uh

[Speaker 2] (1:45:14 - 1:45:19)
um a a thousand square I think it was set at a thousand before

[Speaker 2] (1:45:20 - 1:45:21)
It it

[Speaker 4] (1:45:21 - 1:45:21)
Good.

[Speaker 3] (1:45:21 - 1:45:22)
It was eight hundred before.

[Speaker 2] (1:45:22 - 1:45:46)
800 it was very easy for that to in many situations and in many areas of town be the doubling of a house so it really had to do with adjacencies because of the non-conforming Okay. lots and and that's why we came to it and we came to it after a lot of discussion because it felt really restrictive but you know and I

[Speaker 2] (1:45:47 - 1:45:58)
still agree with myself that it is we've seen so many situations where what isn't a huge addition really impacts neighboring structures and

[Speaker 3] (1:45:58 - 1:45:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 6] (1:45:59 - 1:45:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:45:59 - 1:45:59)
I agree

[Speaker 2] (1:45:59 - 1:46:00)
so

[Speaker 1] (1:46:00 - 1:46:00)
with.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:00 - 1:46:00)
forth.

[Speaker 6] (1:46:00 - 1:46:03)
But I guess, I mean, maybe what Kristen,

[Speaker 6] (1:46:03 - 1:46:13)
if I'm putting words in your mouth, let me know. But what you're saying is like tonight or any other night we've got an ADU, as long as they stay under 900 in the end.

[Speaker 6] (1:46:13 - 1:46:14)
And they,

[Speaker 6] (1:46:14 - 1:46:20)
you know, met metal setbacks and everything else. We yes we can comment, but they are hitting all the criteria.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:20 - 1:46:21)
Well we we can

[Speaker 4] (1:46:21 - 1:46:21)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:21 - 1:46:25)
comment and often adjustments are made based

[Speaker 6] (1:46:25 - 1:46:25)
Yeah,

[Speaker 2] (1:46:25 - 1:46:25)
on

[Speaker 6] (1:46:25 - 1:46:25)
just our based

[Speaker 2] (1:46:25 - 1:46:25)
commenting.

[Speaker 6] (1:46:25 - 1:46:26)
on our comments. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:26 - 1:46:31)
Um but there's also the like if you think of that list we went through,

[Speaker 6] (1:46:31 - 1:46:31)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:31 - 1:46:37)
we're sort of the checkers of of that when it comes to

[Speaker 2] (1:46:39 - 1:46:39)
A list.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:40 - 1:46:40)
And we're

[Speaker 2] (1:46:40 - 1:46:40)
I

[Speaker 1] (1:46:40 - 1:46:40)
a close

[Speaker 2] (1:46:40 - 1:46:40)
can't remember.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:40 - 1:46:41)
-knit community,

[Speaker 2] (1:46:41 - 1:46:41)
Well,

[Speaker 1] (1:46:41 - 1:46:43)
like if flood somebody's in a flood zone,

[Speaker 6] (1:46:43 - 1:46:43)
But

[Speaker 1] (1:46:43 - 1:46:43)
then

[Speaker 2] (1:46:43 - 1:46:44)
just

[Speaker 6] (1:46:44 - 1:46:46)
if they checked it all off, and they said

[Speaker 2] (1:46:46 - 1:46:50)
I don't think we can have a s we can't have special permit for an ADU that's under

[Speaker 6] (1:46:50 - 1:46:50)
No.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:50 - 1:46:51)
900.

[Speaker 1] (1:46:53 - 1:46:55)
I don't, we're not looking to have a um

[Speaker 2] (1:46:56 - 1:46:56)
But it's it's a

[Speaker 1] (1:46:56 - 1:46:57)
it's a site plan.

[Speaker 2] (1:46:57 - 1:46:59)
it's a site plan review, which is not the

[Speaker 6] (1:46:59 - 1:46:59)
Well,

[Speaker 2] (1:46:59 - 1:46:59)
same.

[Speaker 6] (1:46:59 - 1:47:00)
a special

[Speaker 2] (1:47:00 - 1:47:00)
It's

[Speaker 6] (1:47:00 - 1:47:00)
permit,

[Speaker 2] (1:47:00 - 1:47:01)
it's like a a section, it's not

[Speaker 6] (1:47:01 - 1:47:01)
Oh.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:01 - 1:47:01)
it's

[Speaker 3] (1:47:01 - 1:47:03)
This gets into the

[Speaker 2] (1:47:03 - 1:47:03)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:03 - 1:47:06)
legality problem with site plan special permit.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:06 - 1:47:06)
Right.

[Speaker 6] (1:47:06 - 1:47:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:06 - 1:47:09)
Because it's whether it's discretionary or not discretionary approval.

[Speaker 6] (1:47:09 - 1:47:10)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:10 - 1:47:10)
Okay.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:10 - 1:47:11)
And that

[Speaker 3] (1:47:11 - 1:47:18)
Because you have the ability to deny a special permit which the board, if it's allowed by right, shouldn't

[Speaker 1] (1:47:18 - 1:47:18)
have Right.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:18 - 1:47:22)
the ability to deny that, you know, even if you you aren't

[Speaker 1] (1:47:22 - 1:47:22)
But

[Speaker 3] (1:47:22 - 1:47:22)
denied.

[Speaker 1] (1:47:22 - 1:47:24)
if something's allowed by right that it it

[Speaker 3] (1:47:24 - 1:47:24)
It should

[Speaker 1] (1:47:24 - 1:47:28)
implies it implies that it meets all our regulations.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:28 - 1:47:28)
Correct.

[Speaker 6] (1:47:28 - 1:47:32)
And that the staff has reviewed for those Right. compliance issues.

[Speaker 3] (1:47:32 - 1:47:36)
And so that's kind of where the this discussion is stemming from just because

[Speaker 3] (1:47:40 - 1:47:52)
basically it's supposed to be allowed by right, and when you get into um being able to deny that rather than just giving your recommendations, it's it's the mechanism of how um

[Speaker 2] (1:47:52 - 1:47:53)
Did we did we

[Speaker 3] (1:47:53 - 1:47:53)
the

[Speaker 2] (1:47:53 - 1:47:53)
fix

[Speaker 3] (1:47:53 - 1:47:53)
bylaws

[Speaker 2] (1:47:53 - 1:47:55)
the site plans? But we didn't

[Speaker 3] (1:47:55 - 1:47:58)
No, that is still, you know, and that's part of this discussion.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:58 - 1:47:59)
So that's that's part of it

[Speaker 3] (1:47:59 - 1:47:59)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:47:59 - 1:48:02)
like we I think I think we could

[Speaker 2] (1:48:04 - 1:48:19)
Well I actually don't really actually know. I think we could have it be where we have site plan review totally uh just a review where we can comment, but we have no actual authority to approve or deny. I think that would probably be

[Speaker 2] (1:48:20 - 1:48:22)
okay, but I'd want my KP law to probably check.

[Speaker 1] (1:48:22 - 1:48:23)
Yeah. Well we But also we have

[Speaker 2] (1:48:23 - 1:48:28)
can't have the current the current situation is creating you'd had like what three now? In

[Speaker 1] (1:48:28 - 1:48:28)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:48:28 - 1:48:29)
each time I'm kind of like

[Speaker 2] (1:48:31 - 1:48:45)
Oh okay, you know, I mean I'm glad that they're coming in, but it it would be great if we could have a by-law that just makes it clear and also makes it clear, you know, how does the how does all of these A_D_U_s are also coming with extras, right?

[Speaker 2] (1:48:45 - 1:48:49)
and how do those fit into our review?

[Speaker 1] (1:48:49 - 1:48:49)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (1:48:49 - 1:48:49)
Do those

[Speaker 2] (1:48:50 - 1:48:53)
They find extras, like like the breezeway. like a breezeway and all that

[Speaker 6] (1:48:53 - 1:48:53)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (1:48:53 - 1:49:03)
sort of stuff, are those a totally separate thing and they fall under the five hundred square feet? Or if we're approving a nine hundred s qu an eight hundred ninety-nine square But foot ADU, but then they add on these extras, is

[Speaker 1] (1:49:03 - 1:49:03)
Right,

[Speaker 2] (1:49:03 - 1:49:04)
that then

[Speaker 1] (1:49:04 - 1:49:04)
if somebody

[Speaker 2] (1:49:04 - 1:49:05)
part of

[Speaker 1] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
was

[Speaker 2] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
the whole

[Speaker 1] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
just

[Speaker 2] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
ADU

[Speaker 1] (1:49:05 - 1:49:05)
building an

[Speaker 2] (1:49:05 - 1:49:06)
package?

[Speaker 1] (1:49:06 - 1:49:06)
addition,

[Speaker 1] (1:49:06 - 1:49:07)
we'd be

[Speaker 2] (1:49:07 - 1:49:07)
And

[Speaker 1] (1:49:07 - 1:49:08)
we'd be adding on the square footage.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:08 - 1:49:09)
I have to imagine that

[Speaker 2] (1:49:13 - 1:49:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:49:13 - 1:49:14)
question.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:14 - 1:49:29)
So we we d we have a couple of of things I could say to that just in terms of site plan approval versus um administrative site plan. We do have administrative site plan in the by-law, which is just for um

[Speaker 2] (1:49:30 - 1:49:54)
some telecommunication something and plan development districts okay so that's administrative site plan and then we have site plan review for what was once the Glover the Glover 40 our district I think we used to call it the Vernon Square 40 our district before it became the Glover

[Speaker 3] (1:49:56 - 1:49:56)
Oh.

[Speaker 2] (1:49:56 - 1:50:03)
whatever we call multi-family overlay district, that is not a special permit, that's a site plan approval.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:04 - 1:50:06)
So they do have to go through

[Speaker 3] (1:50:06 - 1:50:06)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:06 - 1:50:14)
all these criteria, we can certainly make it difficult for them to meet the criteria but it's not a special permit,

[Speaker 3] (1:50:15 - 1:50:15)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:16 - 1:50:23)
neither are the Planned Development Districts. So we could shift ADUs into that category,

[Speaker 2] (1:50:23 - 1:50:24)
one or the other.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:25 - 1:50:38)
um under site plan approval which is generally under a large development so we since an ADU is more similar to a PDD where it's a planned development district it's a very specific use it

[Speaker 4] (1:50:38 - 1:50:39)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:39 - 1:50:43)
may be easier to shift it over to administrative site plan review um

[Speaker 4] (1:50:43 - 1:50:44)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:50:44 - 1:50:48)
look under the site plan review section I think that's where it is we're definitely

[Speaker 2] (1:50:52 - 1:50:55)
I think it, when it first talks about site plan,

[Speaker 2] (1:50:56 - 1:51:07)
uh in the by-law, and it'll say at the very end administrative site plan under and what was that, tech under technology thing.

[Speaker 2] (1:51:08 - 1:51:11)
I can't even remember that, it was P_D_D_s and

[Speaker 5] (1:51:12 - 1:51:13)
Yep, so

[Speaker 2] (1:51:17 - 1:51:19)
When we try to find it, I can look up

[Speaker 2] (1:51:23 - 1:51:28)
I don't think it's under the well, maybe it is under the regulations. Look under fifty four hundred.

[Speaker 2] (1:51:33 - 1:51:34)
Oh, what did that say?

[Speaker 6] (1:51:47 - 1:51:49)
I just wanna make sure I'm looking at the right

[Speaker 6] (1:52:05 - 1:52:07)
Two two three zero.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:08 - 1:52:10)
Um, I'll time.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:11 - 1:52:12)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:27 - 1:52:30)
I'm thinking it might it wouldn't be under 5400, would it?

[Speaker 2] (1:52:31 - 1:52:32)
I haven't looked yet.

[Speaker 6] (1:52:33 - 1:52:33)
Mm.

[Speaker 6] (1:52:33 - 1:52:34)
Mm.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:36 - 1:52:38)
Of course I don't have internet here.

[Speaker 2] (1:52:39 - 1:52:40)
Okay.

[Speaker 6] (1:52:40 - 1:52:43)
Sorry. Okay, five four one zero.

[Speaker 6] (1:53:00 - 1:53:08)
Right, because I was under the impression that there was no site plan review, site plan special permit.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:09 - 1:53:11)
The site plan approval and

[Speaker 6] (1:53:11 - 1:53:12)
Approval.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:12 - 1:53:16)
administrative site plan review. I know.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:17 - 1:53:19)
It's like find

[Speaker 6] (1:53:19 - 1:53:19)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:27 - 1:53:28)
Pull it up some place.

[Speaker 6] (1:53:29 - 1:53:30)
I have four nine zero.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:35 - 1:53:40)
I don't know why I can't get into this anymore. You know what the password is in here?

[Speaker 1] (1:53:41 - 1:53:42)
I don't.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:42 - 1:53:43)
Used to be so easy.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:44 - 1:53:44)
And then we

[Speaker 7] (1:53:44 - 1:53:49)
It's a capital uh sorry, exclamation point, capital S_H_S_

[Speaker 2] (1:53:50 - 1:53:50)
Exclamation?

[Speaker 7] (1:53:51 - 1:53:52)
Yeah, at the beginning,

[Speaker 2] (1:53:52 - 1:53:52)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (1:53:52 - 1:53:53)
exclamation point then

[Speaker 7] (1:53:53 - 1:53:57)
S_H_S_ all capital uh acts the act sign.

[Speaker 2] (1:53:57 - 1:53:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (1:53:58 - 1:53:59)
Uh twenty seven T_

[Speaker 2] (1:54:02 - 1:54:03)
Great. Thanks.

[Speaker 2] (1:54:08 - 1:54:09)
Yep, great, it worked.

[Speaker 1] (1:54:51 - 1:54:51)
Kristen,

[Speaker 1] (1:54:51 - 1:54:54)
have we spoken to KP Law at all about this?

[Speaker 8] (1:54:55 - 1:55:11)
Only when we were proposing the administrative site plan special permit approval because that's where they brought up the potential hesitations with site plan special permit in general as an approval,

[Speaker 1] (1:55:11 - 1:55:11)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (1:55:11 - 1:55:13)
especially for an administrative approval.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:14 - 1:55:14)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:55:15 - 1:55:18)
So we have spoken to them about that but not.

[Speaker 8] (1:55:19 - 1:55:35)
um about this specifically yet. So um what what we can do is take a look and um basically prepare some sort sort of administrative

[Speaker 8] (1:55:36 - 1:55:42)
you know, site plan review language for ADUs rather than site plan special permit in

[Speaker 1] (1:55:42 - 1:55:42)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:55:42 - 1:55:44)
the ADU section of the bylaw,

[Speaker 2] (1:55:44 - 1:55:44)
I

[Speaker 8] (1:55:44 - 1:55:44)
and

[Speaker 2] (1:55:44 - 1:55:45)
didn't know.

[Speaker 8] (1:55:45 - 1:55:50)
see what KP Law has to say about how that meets the requirements.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:50 - 1:55:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:50 - 1:55:53)
Let's, if that works for everybody, let's see if

[Speaker 7] (1:55:53 - 1:55:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:55:53 - 1:56:02)
KP Law can get us like a, just like a short memo on just what kind of review is actually allowed given the state,

[Speaker 1] (1:56:02 - 1:56:03)
given the statute.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:03 - 1:56:03)
Okay.

[Speaker 8] (1:56:05 - 1:56:05)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (1:56:06 - 1:56:06)
Um

[Speaker 1] (1:56:06 - 1:56:14)
And I don't want someone to come in here and file for an EDU and we impose conditions or deny it and they

[Speaker 8] (1:56:14 - 1:56:14)
Exactly. Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:14 - 1:56:15)
turn

[Speaker 2] (1:56:15 - 1:56:15)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (1:56:15 - 1:56:21)
around and have, you know, I want all of our decisions to have like a sound footing.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:23 - 1:56:27)
That's funny because in here we have like oh there's there's a second S-P-R.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:28 - 1:56:32)
So our our code you know on our key we say

[Speaker 2] (1:56:32 - 1:56:42)
SPR is a use authorized as a matter of right subject to plan review. And we have it for multi-fam multi-family dwelling units, but we don't show it for the accessory dwelling units.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:44 - 1:56:47)
It's only used twice, but SPR designation.

[Speaker 6] (1:56:48 - 1:56:48)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:51 - 1:56:54)
A_ three for parking structures

[Speaker 2] (1:56:56 - 1:56:57)
and multi-family.

[Speaker 2] (1:56:58 - 1:56:59)
More than eight units,

[Speaker 2] (1:56:59 - 1:57:01)
in

[Speaker 6] (1:57:01 - 1:57:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (1:57:01 - 1:57:02)
B4 only, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:05 - 1:57:08)
I think that's probably the next step, right?

[Speaker 6] (1:57:08 - 1:57:08)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:08 - 1:57:10)
Regardless of what we have

[Speaker 8] (1:57:10 - 1:57:10)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:10 - 1:57:15)
in our bylaw, we need someone to tell us what we can legally approve

[Speaker 8] (1:57:15 - 1:57:16)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:16 - 1:57:18)
and at what thresholds.

[Speaker 8] (1:57:18 - 1:57:24)
And it makes sense, and I appreciate the board sharing the context as to why the 500 exists,

[Speaker 8] (1:57:24 - 1:57:27)
because I know that was a recent change.

[Speaker 8] (1:57:28 - 1:57:47)
Um so potentially something that I could put forth to KP Law would be um 80 use between 500 and 900 would be subject to um site plan review by

[Speaker 2] (1:57:47 - 1:57:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (1:57:48 - 1:57:49)
the planning board.

[Speaker 8] (1:57:49 - 1:57:51)
Does that sound good to everyone?

[Speaker 8] (1:57:54 - 1:57:58)
You know, and then anything over 900 would be a normal site plan special permit.

[Speaker 9] (1:57:59 - 1:57:59)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:57:59 - 1:58:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:00 - 1:58:02)
I would just want them to tell us, like, you know,

[Speaker 8] (1:58:02 - 1:58:02)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:02 - 1:58:05)
what can that review look

[Speaker 8] (1:58:05 - 1:58:05)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:05 - 1:58:06)
like?

[Speaker 8] (1:58:06 - 1:58:06)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:06 - 1:58:10)
Like what kind of conditions can we put on it and that sort of thing.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:10 - 1:58:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 9] (1:58:12 - 1:58:17)
I'm curious with the,

[Speaker 9] (1:58:17 - 1:58:19)
I mean, the way our, the way.

[Speaker 9] (1:58:21 - 1:58:25)
The w the fact that we don't really have a design review in

[Speaker 8] (1:58:25 - 1:58:25)
Mm

[Speaker 9] (1:58:25 - 1:58:25)
our town.

[Speaker 8] (1:58:25 - 1:58:25)
-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (1:58:26 - 1:58:26)
Oh.

[Speaker 9] (1:58:26 - 1:58:36)
How do towns that have design reviews um deal with ADUs? In the sense that like there's things that

[Speaker 9] (1:58:37 - 1:58:42)
might really be difficult because an ADU could be a manufactured home.

[Speaker 9] (1:58:43 - 1:58:47)
Um and there's no reason. So if it's by special, if it's if it's by right

[Speaker 9] (1:58:48 - 1:58:52)
Today's project in the front yard could have been a mobile home.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:52 - 1:58:53)
Yeah, I mean

[Speaker 9] (1:58:53 - 1:58:53)
A

[Speaker 1] (1:58:53 - 1:58:54)
the nine state

[Speaker 9] (1:58:54 - 1:58:55)
hundred square foot mobile home.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:55 - 1:58:55)
State statute,

[Speaker 1] (1:58:56 - 1:58:56)
you

[Speaker 9] (1:58:56 - 1:58:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:58:56 - 1:58:56)
know.

[Speaker 9] (1:58:56 - 1:59:02)
But if you have a design review that relates to aesthetic.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:06 - 1:59:17)
you know until this one it had never crossed my mind that anyone would ever put an adu in the front yard um so you

[Speaker 2] (1:59:17 - 1:59:18)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:18 - 1:59:28)
know at what point in time are towns allowed to have aesthetic reviews or is is this overriding that when it comes to an adu

[Speaker 3] (1:59:28 - 1:59:31)
I mean, that's something I can look into for the

[Speaker 1] (1:59:31 - 1:59:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:31 - 1:59:34)
for the next meeting. Um

[Speaker 4] (1:59:34 - 1:59:36)
A lot of towns have design review.

[Speaker 3] (1:59:36 - 1:59:36)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (1:59:36 - 1:59:48)
I have so many examples I pulled ages ago. But when we brought that up, we didn't have any um professional staff that was able to to do

[Speaker 1] (1:59:48 - 1:59:49)
But I I think that there

[Speaker 4] (1:59:49 - 1:59:50)
that, and now we do.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:51 - 1:59:53)
But I also think that there's

[Speaker 3] (1:59:53 - 1:59:53)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (1:59:53 - 1:59:54)
If

[Speaker 3] (1:59:54 - 1:59:54)
what are they?

[Speaker 1] (1:59:54 - 1:59:56)
you may be opening the door for this

[Speaker 3] (1:59:56 - 1:59:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:59:56 - 2:00:00)
because it may be the only way is to design.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:00 - 2:00:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:02 - 2:00:07)
And that's part of when I prepare the question for KP Law,

[Speaker 3] (2:00:07 - 2:00:10)
you know, has a line been established,

[Speaker 3] (2:00:10 - 2:00:15)
you know, by other municipalities for enforcement,

[Speaker 3] (2:00:15 - 2:00:18)
you know, what is allowable and what's not.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:18 - 2:00:19)
Um,

[Speaker 1] (2:00:21 - 2:00:31)
Because I mean, I've done projects in towns where they are doing design review on property that's not visible or on projects that are not visible from the public way,

[Speaker 1] (2:00:31 - 2:00:31)
and

[Speaker 3] (2:00:31 - 2:00:32)
yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:00:32 - 2:00:32)
I don't, yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:00:32 - 2:00:33)
it's in California.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:34 - 2:00:42)
I don't think, you know, having an ADU be subject to design guidelines necessarily is.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:44 - 2:00:48)
you know limiting it by right use right um

[Speaker 1] (2:00:48 - 2:00:51)
Because that by right is a use by right.

[Speaker 3] (2:00:52 - 2:01:05)
right yeah so that ADU 900 square feet the use is allowed by right so you can still review what it looks like um as long as you're not being so prohibitive that it can't be built

[Speaker 3] (2:01:06 - 2:01:10)
But again, it's a review. It's not a permit that you're granting.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:10 - 2:01:20)
So it would be allowed by right and then you can regulate how it looks within the design guidelines that the town has adopted.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:20 - 2:01:26)
But when it's a special permit and you have the possibility of denying it, I think that's where our...

[Speaker 3] (2:01:28 - 2:01:29)
current question lies

[Speaker 1] (2:01:29 - 2:01:30)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:30 - 2:01:31)
and what we're trying to fix.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:31 - 2:01:37)
But I do think that you can have design guidelines for buy right uses to regulate,

[Speaker 3] (2:01:37 - 2:01:40)
you know, what the form looks and what it looks like and all of that.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:41 - 2:01:43)
But it's, we can't prohibit the use,

[Speaker 3] (2:01:43 - 2:01:44)
if

[Speaker 1] (2:01:44 - 2:01:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:01:44 - 2:01:45)
that makes sense.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:45 - 2:01:45)
No.

[Speaker 1] (2:01:46 - 2:01:49)
I mean, I think that's a, that's a, from my standpoint,

[Speaker 1] (2:01:49 - 2:01:52)
I really think that

[Speaker 1] (2:01:52 - 2:01:59)
We don't have any tooth and design in the town at all, except for the properties that land in the historic district,

[Speaker 1] (2:01:59 - 2:02:02)
and then we actually have guidelines.

[Speaker 3] (2:02:02 - 2:02:07)
There is design review for Humphrey Street that's required.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:07 - 2:02:09)
Yeah, but the residential...

[Speaker 3] (2:02:09 - 2:02:12)
Yeah, that's.

[Speaker 3] (2:02:12 - 2:02:25)
The residential is the use you know the use end of it and you know what's uses are allowed in the district one aren't but the design review gets triggered in terms of what does it look like from the planning board does

[Speaker 1] (2:02:25 - 2:02:27)
But, you

[Speaker 3] (2:02:28 - 2:02:29)
that make

[Speaker 1] (2:02:29 - 2:02:29)
know,

[Speaker 3] (2:02:29 - 2:02:29)
sense

[Speaker 1] (2:02:29 - 2:02:30)
so for instance,

[Speaker 1] (2:02:30 - 2:02:37)
there's a property on Humphrey Street that we approved and it was built and it doesn't match what we...

[Speaker 1] (2:02:38 - 2:02:41)
had approved when it comes to detail whereas

[Speaker 1] (2:02:43 - 2:02:44)
the tooth

[Speaker 3] (2:02:44 - 2:02:45)
It yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:02:46 - 2:03:01)
you know it's a it's it like we approved something that turned to be an estimate of what the building how the building was going to be detailed and then the building got detailed and it doesn't match so that that's where I'm just sort of curious how we can start having

[Speaker 1] (2:03:03 - 2:03:06)
positive impact especially on properties that

[Speaker 3] (2:03:06 - 2:03:06)
are Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:06 - 2:03:11)
on the street, but actually everywhere out of you know when you have a property

[Speaker 1] (2:03:12 - 2:03:12)
um

[Speaker 1] (2:03:14 - 2:03:18)
when you have a property that's poorly executed it impacts the value of the neighbours.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:19 - 2:03:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:19 - 2:03:20)
So I think it's

[Speaker 5] (2:03:21 - 2:03:27)
I mean the A_D_U_ last week too was front front edge to I was viewable from the street, the one on them.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:29 - 2:03:32)
Is that one? Uh second street

[Speaker 6] (2:03:32 - 2:03:32)
And

[Speaker 5] (2:03:32 - 2:03:32)
on

[Speaker 6] (2:03:32 - 2:03:32)
Yeah. Robin.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:32 - 2:03:34)
the intersection. Yeah, Robin Lane.

[Speaker 6] (2:03:34 - 2:03:34)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:34 - 2:03:34)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:34 - 2:03:35)
That

[Speaker 1] (2:03:35 - 2:03:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:35 - 2:03:37)
was also Yeah. was kind of same kind of

[Speaker 6] (2:03:37 - 2:03:37)
Right.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:37 - 2:03:37)
thing.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:37 - 2:03:37)
Yeah, and

[Speaker 1] (2:03:37 - 2:03:43)
But it was pu that was that was fully at the back of the house though, still visible from the street.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:43 - 2:03:45)
Yeah yeah. Yeah, I guess it kind of came up

[Speaker 3] (2:03:45 - 2:03:45)
right.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:45 - 2:03:46)
to the side, yeah. So

[Speaker 1] (2:03:46 - 2:03:46)
Yeah,

[Speaker 5] (2:03:46 - 2:03:46)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:46 - 2:03:47)
that was sort of

[Speaker 5] (2:03:47 - 2:03:47)
Yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:03:47 - 2:03:47)
sort of the thing.

[Speaker 5] (2:03:47 - 2:03:47)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:47 - 2:03:49)
You know, if this was

[Speaker 5] (2:03:49 - 2:03:49)
Set

[Speaker 1] (2:03:49 - 2:03:49)
the main house

[Speaker 5] (2:03:49 - 2:03:49)
back, yeah

[Speaker 1] (2:03:49 - 2:03:49)
here,

[Speaker 5] (2:03:49 - 2:03:50)
yeah,

[Speaker 1] (2:03:50 - 2:03:51)
so it was it was step back this

[Speaker 5] (2:03:51 - 2:03:52)
step back, yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:52 - 2:03:55)
this location today is is in the front yard.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:57 - 2:03:58)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:03:58 - 2:03:58)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:03:58 - 2:03:58)
And we

[Speaker 1] (2:04:00 - 2:04:10)
But I think it's interesting because we haven't had anyone come forward, but I can't turn my phone on and not get four, you know, senior living pods,

[Speaker 1] (2:04:10 - 2:04:17)
which I'm not very happy about the algorithm in my phone right now because I don't think I'm the age that it's for my parents.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:18 - 2:04:18)
But anyway,

[Speaker 1] (2:04:19 - 2:04:26)
the reality is there's a lot of product out there and, you know.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:28 - 2:04:33)
Some of it is probably fine, but some of it's gonna look like, you know, a temporary classroom stuck on

[Speaker 7] (2:04:33 - 2:04:33)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:33 - 2:04:34)
someone's

[Speaker 3] (2:04:34 - 2:04:35)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:35 - 2:04:36)
front yard, I guess.

[Speaker 7] (2:04:37 - 2:04:38)
Right so let's see what K_P_ loss says in

[Speaker 3] (2:04:38 - 2:04:38)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (2:04:38 - 2:04:40)
terms of what they can do and then

[Speaker 3] (2:04:41 - 2:04:41)
Yeah, and

[Speaker 7] (2:04:41 - 2:04:41)
build

[Speaker 3] (2:04:41 - 2:04:42)
if

[Speaker 7] (2:04:42 - 2:04:42)
that.

[Speaker 3] (2:04:42 - 2:04:50)
we can, you know, impose certain levels of standards on them, um that's certainly something that we can work in.

[Speaker 1] (2:04:50 - 2:04:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:04:51 - 2:04:54)
Um especially, it you know, if they're going to be visible.

[Speaker 3] (2:04:55 - 2:05:01)
from the street um and things like that that could be potentially something that we could work in as well.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:02 - 2:05:10)
It's also very confusing uh still certainly to me and it's going to be if we have to put this out in front of any kind of in a town meeting or anything.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:11 - 2:05:15)
Um this special permit, it's a site permit, a special permit site. Or,

[Speaker 3] (2:05:15 - 2:05:15)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:15 - 2:05:19)
like, all these things that are sound the same but they're not.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:19 - 2:05:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 5] (2:05:19 - 2:05:19)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:19 - 2:05:23)
And then what's the five hundred really being? Does that mean

[Speaker 8] (2:05:24 - 2:05:32)
Site plans, especially like where is the like a chart or something, I'm not sure of the the best way to kinda lay everything out, so it's kind of intuitive.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:32 - 2:05:32)
Yeah?

[Speaker 7] (2:05:33 - 2:05:33)
Hmm.

[Speaker 7] (2:05:33 - 2:05:33)
Mm.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:34 - 2:05:47)
No, that's a that's a good point. And something um that we could work on in like an easily understandable table of you know what type of review and approval is this and when does it apply.

[Speaker 8] (2:05:48 - 2:05:48)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:48 - 2:05:50)
Um I think especially when we're

[Speaker 3] (2:05:51 - 2:05:54)
getting to the point of community engagement, um we

[Speaker 8] (2:05:54 - 2:05:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:05:54 - 2:06:05)
definitely can make those graphics so that it's, you know, easily understandable because this is very dense and there's a lot going on in here that um I can imagine would be very confusing.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:06 - 2:06:15)
I think also where the five hundred and nine hundred falls into that chart and I know there's a lot of debate about it either way and what K_P_ law says will

[Speaker 8] (2:06:16 - 2:06:19)
Tell us if it's even allowed what we're considering or not, right?

[Speaker 3] (2:06:19 - 2:06:19)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:19 - 2:06:25)
And then maybe we have special section of the chart for five hundred is a special section for nine hundred.

[Speaker 7] (2:06:25 - 2:06:25)
Yep.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:26 - 2:06:26)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:26 - 2:06:29)
And tonight was under nine hundred, right, it was?

[Speaker 5] (2:06:29 - 2:06:30)
Kind of.

[Speaker 7] (2:06:30 - 2:06:30)
Kind of.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:30 - 2:06:31)
Yeah, it was

[Speaker 7] (2:06:31 - 2:06:32)
Kind of.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:32 - 2:06:32)
Kind of.

[Speaker 7] (2:06:32 - 2:06:32)
right.

[Speaker 5] (2:06:32 - 2:06:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:32 - 2:06:32)
Kind of.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:32 - 2:06:34)
technically under

[Speaker 4] (2:06:34 - 2:06:34)
Technically

[Speaker 3] (2:06:34 - 2:06:34)
nine hundred

[Speaker 4] (2:06:34 - 2:06:35)
it wasn't.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:35 - 2:06:35)
but the

[Speaker 5] (2:06:35 - 2:06:36)
breezeway Okay, it was a though.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:36 - 2:06:37)
and the covered porch

[Speaker 7] (2:06:37 - 2:06:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:37 - 2:06:39)
were not included in the calculation.

[Speaker 1] (2:06:39 - 2:06:40)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:06:40 - 2:06:43)
So where d when does the five hundred

[Speaker 8] (2:06:43 - 2:06:44)
Rear its head.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:45 - 2:06:50)
It yeah, not something um I know was mentioned earlier when it includes other things,

[Speaker 8] (2:06:50 - 2:06:51)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:06:51 - 2:06:59)
you know, what you know the way that they measured it was just the ADU itself was under um nine hundred, but um

[Speaker 1] (2:06:59 - 2:06:59)
But but

[Speaker 3] (2:06:59 - 2:07:02)
that's something that we'll need to take a

[Speaker 1] (2:07:02 - 2:07:02)
but

[Speaker 3] (2:07:02 - 2:07:02)
look at

[Speaker 1] (2:07:02 - 2:07:03)
but going back to the

[Speaker 3] (2:07:03 - 2:07:03)
define.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:03 - 2:07:05)
the fact that an ADU is a use

[Speaker 7] (2:07:05 - 2:07:06)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:06 - 2:07:07)
so I mean

[Speaker 1] (2:07:07 - 2:07:07)
Just

[Speaker 3] (2:07:07 - 2:07:08)
Yeah?

[Speaker 1] (2:07:08 - 2:07:13)
looking at that from a design standpoint, I didn't disagree on that breezeway and that porch.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:13 - 2:07:13)
Oh no, no,

[Speaker 1] (2:07:13 - 2:07:13)
Those

[Speaker 4] (2:07:13 - 2:07:13)
no,

[Speaker 1] (2:07:13 - 2:07:14)
are

[Speaker 4] (2:07:14 - 2:07:14)
no.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:14 - 2:07:15)
additions on the house

[Speaker 4] (2:07:15 - 2:07:16)
But the pen was lovely.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:16 - 2:07:21)
and they're shared. So I I do think that that's a reasonable way to do it and

[Speaker 3] (2:07:21 - 2:07:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 4] (2:07:22 - 2:07:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:22 - 2:07:22)
you know

[Speaker 7] (2:07:22 - 2:07:23)
Yeah, no, I d

[Speaker 1] (2:07:23 - 2:07:35)
it it's but it's i it's a case where it's the by right piece of it is like we could have said you know we're gonna review the breezeway and the porch separately.

[Speaker 7] (2:07:36 - 2:07:37)
Well right, that's what I what that's part of

[Speaker 5] (2:07:37 - 2:07:37)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:07:37 - 2:07:40)
what uh K.P. liked to tell us is like how do we have to

[Speaker 7] (2:07:41 - 2:07:45)
Wha so Are are these are these one big package, are these actually two different um

[Speaker 8] (2:07:45 - 2:07:45)
When does the

[Speaker 5] (2:07:45 - 2:07:45)
Update.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:45 - 2:07:46)
edition

[Speaker 7] (2:07:46 - 2:07:47)
editions uh

[Speaker 8] (2:07:47 - 2:07:47)
when does the

[Speaker 7] (2:07:47 - 2:07:47)
uh

[Speaker 5] (2:07:47 - 2:07:48)
So maybe

[Speaker 7] (2:07:48 - 2:07:48)
like how

[Speaker 5] (2:07:48 - 2:07:48)
you want

[Speaker 7] (2:07:48 - 2:07:50)
how can we think about this?

[Speaker 5] (2:07:50 - 2:07:50)
something

[Speaker 3] (2:07:50 - 2:07:51)
Sorry.

[Speaker 7] (2:07:51 - 2:07:51)
How do we have to

[Speaker 8] (2:07:51 - 2:07:51)
If

[Speaker 7] (2:07:51 - 2:07:51)
be the thinking

[Speaker 8] (2:07:51 - 2:07:52)
recent changes

[Speaker 7] (2:07:52 - 2:07:52)
about it?

[Speaker 8] (2:07:52 - 2:07:52)
to five.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:52 - 2:07:54)
On that an it the fact is

[Speaker 8] (2:07:54 - 2:07:54)
When

[Speaker 1] (2:07:54 - 2:07:55)
too is it's gonna really depend

[Speaker 8] (2:07:55 - 2:07:55)
hit,

[Speaker 1] (2:07:55 - 2:07:56)
on this why.

[Speaker 8] (2:07:56 - 2:07:56)
when it's nine hundred.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:56 - 2:07:56)
Because

[Speaker 7] (2:07:56 - 2:07:56)
Mm sure.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:56 - 2:07:58)
you know you could do

[Speaker 8] (2:07:58 - 2:07:59)
Chip with the eleven.

[Speaker 1] (2:07:59 - 2:08:01)
in 80U that fit within

[Speaker 8] (2:08:01 - 2:08:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:01 - 2:08:01)
an

[Speaker 1] (2:08:02 - 2:08:03)
Setbacks,

[Speaker 3] (2:08:03 - 2:08:03)
It

[Speaker 1] (2:08:03 - 2:08:03)
but

[Speaker 3] (2:08:03 - 2:08:04)
did. That's why they're,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:04 - 2:08:04)
you're

[Speaker 3] (2:08:04 - 2:08:04)
they

[Speaker 1] (2:08:04 - 2:08:04)
breaking

[Speaker 3] (2:08:04 - 2:08:05)
came before

[Speaker 1] (2:08:05 - 2:08:05)
a

[Speaker 3] (2:08:05 - 2:08:05)
you to

[Speaker 1] (2:08:05 - 2:08:05)
bridge.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:05 - 2:08:05)
make But

[Speaker 3] (2:08:05 - 2:08:05)
it.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:05 - 2:08:06)
they wouldn't have even

[Speaker 1] (2:08:06 - 2:08:06)
And

[Speaker 8] (2:08:06 - 2:08:06)
been

[Speaker 1] (2:08:06 - 2:08:07)
these pieces

[Speaker 8] (2:08:07 - 2:08:07)
here for

[Speaker 1] (2:08:07 - 2:08:07)
that

[Speaker 8] (2:08:07 - 2:08:07)
the

[Speaker 1] (2:08:07 - 2:08:07)
are attaching

[Speaker 8] (2:08:07 - 2:08:08)
design time

[Speaker 1] (2:08:08 - 2:08:08)
them

[Speaker 8] (2:08:08 - 2:08:08)
limit.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:08 - 2:08:09)
might

[Speaker 3] (2:08:09 - 2:08:09)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:09 - 2:08:10)
have to be removed

[Speaker 4] (2:08:10 - 2:08:10)
But,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:10 - 2:08:11)
when it you comes to lot

[Speaker 4] (2:08:11 - 2:08:12)
have

[Speaker 1] (2:08:12 - 2:08:12)
coverage

[Speaker 4] (2:08:12 - 2:08:12)
flood

[Speaker 1] (2:08:12 - 2:08:12)
without

[Speaker 7] (2:08:12 - 2:08:12)
Right.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:12 - 2:08:12)
approval,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:12 - 2:08:13)
going over a zoning

[Speaker 4] (2:08:13 - 2:08:13)
I mean,

[Speaker 7] (2:08:13 - 2:08:13)
yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:13 - 2:08:14)
appeal.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:14 - 2:08:15)
and they've got to comply

[Speaker 1] (2:08:15 - 2:08:15)
It's

[Speaker 4] (2:08:15 - 2:08:15)
with

[Speaker 1] (2:08:15 - 2:08:16)
a lot.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:16 - 2:08:16)
something.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:16 - 2:08:16)
Just

[Speaker 1] (2:08:16 - 2:08:17)
But again,

[Speaker 4] (2:08:17 - 2:08:17)
can't

[Speaker 1] (2:08:17 - 2:08:18)
most of our

[Speaker 3] (2:08:18 - 2:08:18)
Just

[Speaker 1] (2:08:18 - 2:08:18)
lots

[Speaker 3] (2:08:18 - 2:08:18)
build

[Speaker 1] (2:08:18 - 2:08:18)
don't

[Speaker 3] (2:08:18 - 2:08:18)
a box.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:18 - 2:08:19)
conform.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:19 - 2:08:19)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:19 - 2:08:19)
So

[Speaker 7] (2:08:19 - 2:08:19)
Right,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:19 - 2:08:20)
it's

[Speaker 7] (2:08:20 - 2:08:20)
exactly,

[Speaker 1] (2:08:20 - 2:08:20)
just,

[Speaker 7] (2:08:20 - 2:08:20)
yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:21 - 2:08:21)
Right.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:21 - 2:08:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:21 - 2:08:22)
I mean.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:22 - 2:08:23)
And that's not what

[Speaker 7] (2:08:23 - 2:08:24)
I'm sure there has to be

[Speaker 3] (2:08:24 - 2:08:24)
we

[Speaker 7] (2:08:24 - 2:08:24)
when

[Speaker 3] (2:08:24 - 2:08:24)
want

[Speaker 7] (2:08:24 - 2:08:24)
it comes

[Speaker 3] (2:08:24 - 2:08:24)
to, you

[Speaker 7] (2:08:24 - 2:08:25)
to dealing with

[Speaker 3] (2:08:25 - 2:08:25)
know,

[Speaker 7] (2:08:25 - 2:08:25)
this, because it's so...

[Speaker 3] (2:08:25 - 2:08:26)
achieve with this.

[Speaker 4] (2:08:26 - 2:08:26)
Right.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:26 - 2:08:27)
I

[Speaker 7] (2:08:27 - 2:08:27)
It's kind

[Speaker 3] (2:08:27 - 2:08:27)
agree

[Speaker 7] (2:08:27 - 2:08:27)
of hard to...

[Speaker 3] (2:08:27 - 2:08:28)
with.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:28 - 2:08:28)
today's

[Speaker 3] (2:08:28 - 2:08:29)
Um, everything

[Speaker 7] (2:08:29 - 2:08:29)
the statue

[Speaker 3] (2:08:29 - 2:08:29)
that

[Speaker 7] (2:08:29 - 2:08:30)
but yeah,

[Speaker 3] (2:08:30 - 2:08:30)
Jer

[Speaker 7] (2:08:30 - 2:08:30)
over there

[Speaker 3] (2:08:30 - 2:08:31)
was saying

[Speaker 7] (2:08:31 - 2:08:31)
has a significant

[Speaker 3] (2:08:31 - 2:08:31)
about

[Speaker 7] (2:08:31 - 2:08:31)
effect.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:32 - 2:08:33)
Yeah chewed under

[Speaker 7] (2:08:33 - 2:08:33)
uh

[Speaker 8] (2:08:33 - 2:08:33)
500

[Speaker 1] (2:08:33 - 2:08:35)
But I think that I think that other towns

[Speaker 8] (2:08:35 - 2:08:37)
it needs to come here for

[Speaker 1] (2:08:37 - 2:08:37)
you know we have

[Speaker 8] (2:08:37 - 2:08:38)
such a permit.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:39 - 2:08:40)
And I

[Speaker 3] (2:08:40 - 2:08:40)
Currently.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:40 - 2:08:42)
because of our density

[Speaker 8] (2:08:42 - 2:08:43)
900

[Speaker 1] (2:08:43 - 2:08:43)
we are

[Speaker 8] (2:08:43 - 2:08:43)
million dollars

[Speaker 1] (2:08:43 - 2:08:44)
huge number

[Speaker 8] (2:08:44 - 2:08:44)
that's

[Speaker 1] (2:08:44 - 2:08:45)
of just nonconforming

[Speaker 8] (2:08:45 - 2:08:45)
a lot.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:45 - 2:08:45)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:45 - 2:08:46)
lots

[Speaker 3] (2:08:46 - 2:08:47)
900 ab over and above

[Speaker 1] (2:08:47 - 2:08:48)
a

[Speaker 3] (2:08:48 - 2:08:48)
is still a

[Speaker 1] (2:08:48 - 2:08:48)
bit

[Speaker 3] (2:08:48 - 2:08:48)
special

[Speaker 1] (2:08:48 - 2:08:48)
different.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:48 - 2:08:49)
permit.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:49 - 2:08:50)
We're we're almost more like Somerville

[Speaker 7] (2:08:50 - 2:08:51)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:51 - 2:08:52)
than we are like Lexington.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:52 - 2:08:53)
Right.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:53 - 2:08:53)
Yeah. Just

[Speaker 7] (2:08:53 - 2:08:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:53 - 2:08:53)
you

[Speaker 8] (2:08:53 - 2:08:54)
not know. quite right.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:54 - 2:08:54)
Definitely.

[Speaker 3] (2:08:54 - 2:08:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 8] (2:08:54 - 2:08:55)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (2:08:55 - 2:08:57)
But it is it's gonna be interesting.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:57 - 2:08:57)
Yeah.

[Speaker 7] (2:08:58 - 2:08:59)
Um okay.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:01 - 2:09:01)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:01 - 2:09:05)
got a plan on uh zoning bylaws and I

[Speaker 3] (2:09:05 - 2:09:05)
Yep.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:05 - 2:09:07)
assume our next meeting we'll have a lot to discuss.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:07 - 2:09:07)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:07 - 2:09:08)
So hopefully

[Speaker 1] (2:09:08 - 2:09:08)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:08 - 2:09:11)
hopefully there's not too many that come

[Speaker 1] (2:09:11 - 2:09:11)
And there's

[Speaker 2] (2:09:11 - 2:09:11)
up.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:11 - 2:09:12)
nothing rolling

[Speaker 4] (2:09:12 - 2:09:12)
Oh, that's over good.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:12 - 2:09:14)
to it. I mean

[Speaker 3] (2:09:14 - 2:09:14)
No.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:14 - 2:09:14)
Yeah, Oh, nothing rolling

[Speaker 4] (2:09:14 - 2:09:15)
good.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
over.

[Speaker 4] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
Agenda's clear.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 3] (2:09:15 - 2:09:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:15 - 2:09:20)
It's the first time in quite some time. Um if it uh I think

[Speaker 2] (2:09:21 - 2:09:24)
Just one thing that I wanted to mention if we're okay moving on.

[Speaker 5] (2:09:24 - 2:09:24)
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:24 - 2:09:26)
Uh

[Speaker 2] (2:09:26 - 2:09:30)
Is that for next week we have the joint meetings?

[Speaker 6] (2:09:30 - 2:09:30)
Correct.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:30 - 2:09:32)
And and that's on Wednesday.

[Speaker 6] (2:09:32 - 2:09:32)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:32 - 2:09:34)
And Yes. then know what time?

[Speaker 6] (2:09:34 - 2:09:35)
At 6.30,

[Speaker 7] (2:09:35 - 2:09:36)
It's at 6.30.

[Speaker 6] (2:09:36 - 2:09:36)
I saw.

[Speaker 2] (2:09:36 - 2:09:36)
Six thirty.

[Speaker 7] (2:09:36 - 2:09:46)
Um they haven't said specifically in the agenda where we're going to follow yet, but as soon as I know I will let everyone know like the anticipated time within the meeting

[Speaker 2] (2:09:46 - 2:09:47)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (2:09:47 - 2:09:50)
um 'cause the consultant wants to know that as well. So

[Speaker 2] (2:09:50 - 2:09:50)
Yep. Yeah, of course.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:51 - 2:09:52)
And can that be

[Speaker 1] (2:09:53 - 2:09:56)
I have a problem out of town, can that be done

[Speaker 7] (2:09:56 - 2:09:56)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (2:09:56 - 2:09:57)
by zoom? I

[Speaker 7] (2:09:57 - 2:09:59)
Yeah, so just, um

[Speaker 7] (2:10:00 - 2:10:00)
So

[Speaker 1] (2:10:00 - 2:10:00)
I don't I know.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:00 - 2:10:03)
believe I already sent you guys the um zooms.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:04 - 2:10:12)
the teams linked to the meeting. Just let me know if you're gonna be in person or not, um because we're gonna set up the room for whoever's planning to be there in person.

[Speaker 8] (2:10:12 - 2:10:12)
Okay,

[Speaker 7] (2:10:12 - 2:10:13)
But I'm you

[Speaker 8] (2:10:13 - 2:10:14)
I'm planning

[Speaker 7] (2:10:14 - 2:10:14)
Yep.

[Speaker 8] (2:10:14 - 2:10:15)
to be there.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:15 - 2:10:16)
But you are

[Speaker 2] (2:10:16 - 2:10:16)
So

[Speaker 7] (2:10:16 - 2:10:16)
totally

[Speaker 2] (2:10:16 - 2:10:17)
that's at seven two?

[Speaker 7] (2:10:17 - 2:10:17)
yes.

[Speaker 8] (2:10:17 - 2:10:18)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:18 - 2:10:19)
Oh perfect, I'll be here.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:19 - 2:10:20)
Okay. In person?

[Speaker 2] (2:10:20 - 2:10:21)
In person.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:21 - 2:10:26)
Okay. Um yeah, if you're planning to be here in person

[Speaker 8] (2:10:26 - 2:10:26)
Yep.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:26 - 2:10:29)
just let me know so Shannon and I can set up the room to accommodate everyone.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:29 - 2:10:31)
Is it or you felt self-notified?

[Speaker 7] (2:10:31 - 2:10:32)
Okay.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:32 - 2:10:34)
And this is, uh everyone is in person except for

[Speaker 9] (2:10:34 - 2:10:35)
Yeah,

[Speaker 7] (2:10:35 - 2:10:35)
Ariane?

[Speaker 9] (2:10:35 - 2:10:35)
I can't can't.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:35 - 2:10:35)
Okay.

[Speaker 9] (2:10:35 - 2:10:36)
There's I've

[Speaker 2] (2:10:36 - 2:10:36)
Okay.

[Speaker 9] (2:10:36 - 2:10:37)
got a kid graduating.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:37 - 2:10:38)
Oh yeah, that's important.

[Speaker 7] (2:10:38 - 2:10:40)
Yeah, completely understandable.

[Speaker 9] (2:10:40 - 2:10:42)
Eighth grade. Eighth grade, not real graduation.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:42 - 2:10:42)
Wha

[Speaker 2] (2:10:43 - 2:10:44)
sh sh sh sh.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:44 - 2:10:44)
This is recorded.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:44 - 2:10:47)
Okay. Uh unless anyone has anything else,

[Speaker 7] (2:10:48 - 2:10:48)
Mm-mm.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:48 - 2:10:50)
do I have a motion to adjourn?

[Speaker 1] (2:10:50 - 2:10:51)
So moved.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:51 - 2:10:51)
Second.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:51 - 2:10:51)
Okay.

[Speaker 9] (2:10:52 - 2:10:52)
Second.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:52 - 2:10:53)
All those in favour?

[Speaker 1] (2:10:53 - 2:10:53)
I

[Speaker 7] (2:10:53 - 2:10:53)
Aye.

[Speaker 1] (2:10:53 - 2:10:54)
Aye.

[Speaker 9] (2:10:54 - 2:10:54)
Aye.

[Speaker 2] (2:10:54 - 2:10:55)
Alright, thanks everybody.